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FLDS TEXAS 
Like everyone else, I’ve been following this trail on Go San Angelo. It seems Matthew Waller has given a fair account of the proceedings.
It seems to me Hurley asshatery insulted the jury’s intelligence. Taking into account Eric Nichols excellent and methodical presentation of the facts, I think they give him the max.
Oh and just like my dog manages not to see big geese, I predict Brooke Adams won’t see the verdict.
I reckon the Jury might feel the need to wipe that smirk off his face at conviction. Perhaps 75 years would get the message across?
I’ve been busy Stamp, what is the sentencing range? Do you know?
Miele
Enhancement applies – up to 99 years.
25-99?
Thanks all.
Toad
I believe it’s straight sexual assault (rather than aggravated sexual assault) with an enhancement up to First Degree Felony status.
The punishment for a 1st Degree Felony in Texas is 5 to 99 years.
If I’m wrong on the charges someone please let me know.
This is what the Success has, Ron. The jury agreed with the first degree enhancement. Randy Mankin goes on to say that he could face up to 99 years.
So I believe you’re right.
Do we read anything into the jury agreeing with the enhancement?
they brought up life in prison in the courtroom
99 years isnt life for a polygamist, its an extended tour in the Cellosteel Kingdom.
the defense attorney was the one who brought it up to the jury. he said the sentence is 5 – 99 years or life and up to $10,000 fine. he went on to explain that they can give probation if he gets less than 10 years.
this was all before he ticked everyone off and they had to take 5 for a cool down session.
Oh! Proud, you were there? Do tell?
I kind of inferred from Matthew Wallers writings that Hurley was acting like a jerk.
Stamp, I stole this, but those are actual Texas years, not Kolobian time.
he was acting like the judge and jury were stupid. he kept asking the judge to give an instruction to the jury, it was the same one time after time, like they weren’t going to remember it.
Thanks Proud. Anything else you’d like to add, I’d like to read.
PT what was the instruction that Hurley (you must rape a child to be able to judge someone that has raped a child) wanted the judge to repeatedly give?
Do we read anything into the jury agreeing with the enhancement?
Well, on one level no – they’re just applying the law. However, from a jury psychology standpoint I think it’s quite significant.
Here’s a little thought experiment. Forget about what you know at this point and assume you’re walking in as a juror. One of the questions that you get presented is whether this guy who was already married illegally attempted to marry a 15 year old girl so that he could have sex with her.
I imagine every one of those jurors were internally saying WTF! My personal opinion is that even having to answer that question is going to make them look much more negatively at the defendant.
Come on PT – out with it – You think Hurley pi$$ed off the jury that badly?
not the jury, the judge!!!
the instruction was to keep reminding them that they had to judge leroy’s bad acts, not the bad acts of those around him.
the other part came when carolyn was testifying. something about if he asked her a question it would open the door to all sorts of stuff the prosecution would be able to bring up. something about a bill? maybe ron knows what that is.
it had to do with asking carolyn if her book deal was financed by dan fischer or the diversity foundation.
too cool.
Oh my Stamp the huge mcnut is going to go stark raving mad, he is not listed on wikipedia! Bet he creates his own listing on there tonight.
Yeah for Blues – speaking of him – Dude if you’re around – how are things going? How’s the health? You’ve been pretty sporadic lately.
Miele
“Stamp, I stole this, but those are actual Texas years, not Kolobian time.”
he he he
I think its “Mormon time”, nothing much gets done, things take forever, and when your finished its screwed up and you need to start over.
See the FLDS lawsuits if you doubt me.
So was it a joke or did defense get Leroy a psych eval so prosecution got him one too – by Dr Beall?
the defense asked for a psych eval so the prosecution said only if we get one too and they chose dr. beall.
Ah’m sputterin’. With glee.
I’m willing to bet there is no hypnosis involved (unlike what certain people like to parrot)
Now if the FLDS want Dr Bealls client list he can give them a transcript of his session with Leroy.
Whup!
You’re right, Pathgirl. I’m confident that the “hypnosis” angle is not only a stinky red herring but that the FLDS know perfectly well it’s a red herring. They’re just desperate for ANYTHING to discredit a finding that shows how abusive their religion is and how much pain the women are in.
they want his client list…. hah!! and they will get NOTHING due to HIPAA
CW
“they want his client list…. hah!! and they will get NOTHING due to HIPAA:
Maybe leroy will sign a waiver giving the defense his testimony to Beale. And then maybe they will post it in a motion, and we will all see it.
“I was brainwarshed Dr Bealle! They made me drink koolaid and everything! And they made me feel special with the title “Temple Builder” and I was forced to marry the girls!
Ooops, I was anon 7:29. I’ve got my brand new used computer. Now if my son can just fix this crashing problem it’s got… (He’s talking about needing a new motherboard.)
ew yuk pew I’m tahrd of looking at the unibrow boyz
Of course the sentence will be long. CNN talked about a study which will explain why the jury will come back with a long sentence.
In France, they did a new twist on an old study. They had a fake game show which required people to inflict pain on an innocent person – just because they signed a contract agreeing to comply with orders. Almost everyone complied with authority and made the choice to inflict pain.
Of course it’s the law so the jury will inflict pain – the State (the authority in their minds) have asked them to harm an innocent person; therefore, they will harm him.
marykay, take your crap somewhere else, they found him guilty. the state is simply asking them to assign a punishment for the guilt they found. go play with mudpuppy.
Hey Mary Kay, pop psychologist, have you figured out the difference between transference and counter-transference yet?
You have no idea what you are talking about.
You make it up as you go along …..
Malicia, thank you for playing.
The 51st District of Texas isn’t located in France, and raping children isn’t a game.
Maybe MeryKay is the way she is because she was hypnotized by a voodoo psychologist sometime in her past? It would explain a lot…
It’s pretty telling the State can not find even ONE shrink other than Dr. Beal.
Shrinks are a dime a dozen. Dr. Beal doesn’t seem to have any special credentials – no research papers – doesn’t teach.
So why in the world is it ALWAYS Dr. Beal?
Could it be he is protecting himself (consciously or subconsciously). Perhaps he was Bret’s therapists and he now wants to justify the now questionable use of dreams analysis?
Perhaps his analysis is being effected by $$ and fame?
Sometimes therapists say hypnosis is really relaxation exercises. If he used dream analysis to uncover abuse, there’s a good chance he was the type who would also believe in hypnosis. Is he worried that perhaps if another therapist is involved he will be exposed?
And yes, I will admitt I should have said counter-transference instead of transference.
Maybe Dr. Beal is a nut case?
Maybe MeryKay is the way she is because she was hypnotized by a voodoo psychologist sometime in her past? It would explain a lot…
—————————————-
LOL
Marykay
You’re really full of sh*t. In a jury trial not only are the jurors not tasked with “inflicting pain” (i.e. punishment) in the first stage, they’re actually insulated from it. Their sole task is to decide if the facts presented to them fit the elements of the crime and therefore the defendant is guilty.
Even in the punishment phase there is no correlation to what you cited. They’re not told to “inflict pain.” They are told that they can punish the person within certain ranges and allowed to decided collectively what that should be.
There is no coercion. There is no, “you must submit to authority.” As a matter of fact, the law allows them to be their own authority (with in the limits provided) rather than forcing them to submit to authority and hurt another person.
and what credentials do you have, Mary Kay, which enables you to judge someone’s professional credentials ?
None
I think you’re the nut.
Mary Kay,
Apparently you don’t know how to do an internet search, I found one of Dr Beall’s publications in less than 2 minutes.
Communication skills, regard and accurate empathy correlated with marital satisfaction /–by Lawrence D. Beall. (1987)
* Beall, Lawrence D.
Abstract
Thesis (Ph. D.)–Brigham Young University. Dept. of Psychology.. Bibliography: leaves 109-115, 160-161.
1987 – over 20 years ago!
Nothing since his thesis? Everyone writes papers in school.
I was talking about being a current, well known established researcher.
He is the run of the mill therapist.
Where’s yours, Mary Kay ? What are your credentials ?
and where are the publications of the two FLDS physicians?
There’s NOTHING by them at all !
….and they are boarded in family practice – the absolute BOTTOM of the BARREL in every med school class.
My conditionals are not being used to put someone away for the rest of their life.
If you are going to do something like that be prepared to back-up what you are saying!
I’m sure he can, based on clinical experience.
You still haven’t told us about your stunning credentials…
and why are the FLDS doctors so underqualified ?
Should be creditionals – not conditionals.
annabiodics…..lmao.
I’m cracking up and munchin taterchips
Like I said, Mary Kay, you don’t have a clue….and you have NO CREDENTIALS at ALL…
and a professional doesn’t need to have publications or a faculty position to
give professional testimony. All you need to have is extensive clinical experience with significant numbers of patients. You do NOT have to provide patient names to anyone.
If you actually were a professional, you would know that.
Why haven’t you answered my question- why are the FLDS doctors so unaccomplished ?
Apparently these FLDS doctors are offering diverse clinical services to patients with no publications, no faculty appointments, and they are both in the specialty with the BOTTOM of the BARREL of every med school class. So why are they qualified, given that they probably couldn’t cut it in med school ?
You do realize that it is harder to get into a PhD program in clinical psychology than it is to get a family practice residency, right?
the pshcyobabble that the flds is using is a current resident quack in angelo. i’ll go with dr. beale.
Who is the resident quack in angelo?
I will check their credentials myself.
Let’s see how many publications and faculty appointments this one has.
jarvis somebody.
Someone post the name in its entirety with degrees and I will check it
It’s Jarvis Wright, PhD.
Jarvis Wright, PhD
I see Mary O’kay-I-haven’t-got-a-clue dropped by to play.
Based on my vast clinical experience in diagnosing people on the internet I can tell you all that, in my so-very-almost-professional opinion Mary Almost-O-Kay was seriously traumatized by Dr. Beal in a previous life. She was the family cat and he was the family dog for Gengis Khan. Needless to say her life was pretty miserable and she still blames Dr. Beal for it. Sigh, not much can be done about it, though. Once a cat, always a cat.
Jarvis Wright, isn’t he the one that hung outside one of the trials with picket signs saying some thing about how the world was ending?
State Board info on Jarvis Wright
License number: 21582
License Status: Active
Name: JARVIS ADDISON WRIGHT PH.D
Accessibility: Fully Accessible
Health Service Provider Certification: Yes
Link to facility web site:
No. of years practiced as license holder: 29
Year licensed in Texas: 1977
Language translation services: English Only
Insurance information: Insurance not accepted
Address:
Business name: Jarvis A. Wright, Ph,D.
Primary practice address: Yes
Street address: 421 W. Concho
City: San Angelo
State: TX
ZIP: 76903
Country/Province:
Telephone: 325-944-8184
Fax: 325-658-3318
Formal education:
Year of graduation: 1976
Degree received: Ph.D.
University/Institution: University of Southern Mississippi
Year of graduation: 2001
Degree received: Post-Doctoral MS in Clinical Psychopharmacology
University/Institution: California School of Professional Psychology
it was dr. smith who hung around with the picket sign.
I checked his bio, Mary Kay.
He doesn’t have any faculty appointment that I can find.
He has only one publication from 1977 which is totally irrelevant to treating patients in cults, marriage counseling, or religious observance.
His one publication in 1977 was on how 16 graduate students in psychology changed their decision making for patients based on the patient’s socioeconomic status.
Not only that, this expert witness of yours doesn’t take insurance in his office. He wants cold, hard cash up front.
What an altruist!
So his interests lie in the effect of money on professional practice, and apparently he wants more of that money than insurance companies can offer him.
Can you say “hired gun”?
Where is Uncle Fred when you need him?
Allow me to channel Fred by proxy :
Mary Kay,
Did you forget to take your medication today?
FU,
Love
Fred
We could also point out that Dr Beal is completely irrelevant to this case since he was not called on to testify. I really think that no one should be allowed to screech about Dr Beal unless they are willing to say what pertinent facts about the particular case could have in any way been altered by hypnotism. The DNA analysis, the photos from Leroy’s computer, Warren Jeff’s dictations, the marriage records….what?
This is not an innocent man.
Thanks, Anon.
Can we not demean Dr. Wright’s status as a professional by getting into pi$$ing matches over my expert’s better than yours?
I’m sure part of the reason they picked him was that he is a local and cost is an issue. Besides, we don’t know what his testimony would be.
Just because he’s not published in peer reviewed journals doesn’t mean that he’s not an honest, competent, hard working professional.
At least let’s hear what he has to say before we decide.
My point exactly Ron.
You do not have to have publications to have something worthwhile to say.
It’s Mary Kay who feels differently.
Pharisee posted LAST NIGHT that he got 6 months sentence but I can’t find anything in the news to indicate that sentencing has even started yet. Sanity check, please.
Sorry, no, he was talking about a different case. Never mind.
Anybody know how to research what is the average sentence in Texas for this charge with the enhancement?
The enhancement is relatively new so I doubt there’s much data on it yet.
The enhancement is relatively new so I doubt there’s much data on it yet.
I think this is probably the only case where it has applied. However, if you look at your typical case jurors tend to go to the higher end of the range.
We’ll see how far the “honest” “hard working” characterization saves him.
I just hope they keep in mind some basic truths: 17 years old, two children, no education, no job skills, few, if any, options in life. It’s a good thing I’ll never be on a jury because I’d vote for 99 years. He stole her life, why should he get one?
I have spent tons of hours “talking” to y’all anti-polygamy activists. I bet I spent more hours on these blogs than Dr. Beal has spent with FLDS members!
Can I get on the stand and testify y’all are sick?
In fact, I think the FLDS should do that – get some expert to read these blogs and draw a conclusion about the culture of antt-polygamy activists!
FU MaryKay
Love
Fred
What are your credentials, Mary Kay?
You try to make it appear that you have some sort of mental health credentials, but we both know you don’t.
You still have not answered me regarding your credentials.
and how do you know how many patients Dr Beal has or hasn’t seen ?
Oh, BTW – the FLDS expert witness has just as many publications and faculty appointments as Dr Beal has.
Dr. Larry D. Beall, PhD
Clinical Director and founder.
Dr. Beall has over 20 years in the treatment of trauma survivors of all ages.He has developed short-term treatment protocols for post-trauma conditions. Larry is EMD/R, Thought Field Therapy trained, and uses “hands-on” approaches to therapy such as sand-tray, art therapy, and other experiential mediums. In addition to being a member of the American Psychological Association and Utah Psychological Association, he is a member of the International Society for the Study of Dissociation, International Society for the Study of Trauma, and conducts critical incident stress debriefings. Dr. Beall presents trainings and seminars on the use of sand tray therapy and treatment modalities for trauma. He also performs forensic and psychological/parenting evaluations for the courts.
Nope, I’m not a shrink…..
Dr. Beal said on the stand how many FLDS patients he has seen. it was a really small number – if I remember correctly only around 35 – which could really be about 3 large FLDS families.
Can you imagine what people who say about a shrink if they testified about their client’s bad experience with Jews, Blacks, or any other minority!
They would be discredited so fast your head would spin. And rightly so, a small number of people with problems isn’t always representative of the entire group. Pretty staqndard stuff – in most Courts no judge will allow such backward thinking.
But the FLDS is a small enough minority, this doctor is allowed to spew hatred and bigotry disguised as science.
“he is a member of the International Society for the Study of Dissociation” which means he believes in recovered memories AND he most likely uses hypnosis or some other recovered memory technique such as dream analysis.
And sand play – he basis his analysis on sand castles!
HA HA
OK the jury and defense should get to know if he is drawing his conclusions on interpretation of sand castles!
Really, this nutcase is putting a man in jail for the rest of his life based on SAND CASTLES!!!!
Amazing – hey, Dr. Beal, if you are reading this – you are a nutcase! Get a little therapy of your own!
that means the doctor has treated 35 patients whom he sees two to three times a week for MONTHS or YEARS of treatment. that is a lot of hours spent with these patients. he is not seeing only people who are of all the same family, Mary Kay.
your assertion that somehow you are able to render an opinion equal in validity to his is nothing but your own narcissism.
MaryKay, your such a dirt bag!! Dissociation is a very real mental problem. Maybe you should pay Dr Beall a visit!!!
Dr. Beal said on the stand how many FLDS patients he has seen. it was a really small number – if I remember correctly only around 35 – which could really be about 3 large FLDS families.
——–
Actually 35 would be one rather small FLDS family. They like to start ’em underage and keep ’em pregnant.
You seem to have a name disorder, you have been 40andnotmarried, Concerned and now MaryKay….
ORRRRRRRRRRRR, maybe you need to get married!!!
that means the doctor has treated 35 patients whom he sees two to three times a week for MONTHS or YEARS of treatment. that is a lot of hours spent with these patients. he is not seeing only people who are of all the same family, Mary Kay.
==================================================
And how do you KNOW that? Maybe he had group therapy with one or two large FLDS families – and that’s it.
Really, how would the defense know exactly what he is basing his conclusions on?
There are stories of some really, really major nutcases doing dissociative disorders analysis. One doctor at a well known teaching hospital believed his patient was possessed by an evil spirit. The doctor brought a fire extinguisher to put out the flames because he thought the patient was going to burst into flames. Another believed his client killed thousands of people during her childhood – even though the client lived in a small town.
Or maybe it’s this simple – Dr. Beal doesn’t realize how much he is influenced by the money and fame of this case.
MaryKay, its not Dr Beal, its Dr Beall. You might want to read up on the disorder.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dissociative-disorders/DS00574
MaryKay,
You’re just saying the same stuff over and over without bringing forth any facts. I think you should either tell us what Dr Beal is doing to influence this particular case, or really any of the four so far, or you should stop harping on it. You are just being a classic troll; getting hysterical about something unrelated and talking about it over and over.
MaryKay,
“Really, this nutcase is putting a man in jail for the rest of his life based on SAND CASTLES!!!!”
Hello? What about the DNA? What about the pictures of him with his pregnant teenage wife? What about his letters to Warren Jeffs about his wife’s schooling? What about the notes of a meeting with Jeffs from his dictations saying that he was there within a few days of the conception date? That’s not sandcastles. Did Dr Beal hypnotize the forensic scientists, MaryKay? Why do you need so badly to believe that these men are innocent when there is so much evidence that they are not.
Dr. Beall was used during the sentencing phase. The range of the sentence is wide – he was used by the State to put a man away for the rest of his life instead of probation.
The State didn’t pay Dr. Beall money to come to Texas unless Texas was getting something in return. What did they get in return? Though there is a couple of answers to that question, I bet the State will tell you they were using him to convince the jury to give a long sentence.
He helped the jury feel less bigoted – after all if a DOCTOR said it was based on science – it’s not hatred and bigotry – it’s science. Too bad the defense couldn’t show that it really was just hatred and bigotry.
Really MaryKay, No shit?? Dr Beall did all that??? thats strange were you there? in the courtroom?
No of course not!! Two doctors, one for the state, and one for the defense did evalutions of Merril Leroy Jessop.
They didn’t do it in an open courtroom..
Please tell me how bigoted and hatred were in that evaluation MaryKay?
Were you a fly on the wall in the room? No, I think not. You are blaming and accredited expert in his field for the criminal acts of Merril Leroy Jessop.
Talk about Crazy!!!!! Be a good girl missy, go take your meds.
Isn’t the sentencing phase going on now, started this morning? So, where are you getting this information?
GEE, Marykay why can’t the Defense ,”…show that it was just hatred and bigotry”?
Reynolds vs. the United States was passed back in 1887 it plainly states that following a religious tenet that causes a believer to violate a felony statute is not a valid excuse nor a means of defense. Your explanation of the failure of the Defense to show ‘hatred and bigotry’ ignores why the State of Texas places such a higher sentencing on all 1st Degree felonies which has to do with the gravity and wish to make the punishment so strong that it acts as a preventative measure to discourage such horrendous criminal acts from occurring. Has little to do with bigotry but more to do with affixing a just punishment.
Now Mwerril Leroy is, also, married to another plural wife that he was “reassigned” who had two small children, isn’t that illegal and against parental rights of the natural father. Merril Leroy has had seven children born to him and this “reassigned” wife, namely three sets of twins and a additional single child. I will admit hating his actions of siring nine known children and all within 5 years of one another but doesn’t this fact compound his Felony Offense?
You kept saying that this testimony is going to send an innocent man to jail forever. And then you turn around and say you are only talking about sentencing. So, you are really concerned that they are going to send a guilty man to jail.
An article on increasing awareness of women as sex offenders in Texas.
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/crime/stories/022309dnmetfemalemolester.42b1789.html
It states that the number of women IN PRISON for statutory rape has increased in Texas by 36% in five years. Dated Feb, 2009. At the bottom of the article is a chart with statistic on the average sentences for sex crimes against children in Texas by year. In 2008, the average for women offenders was 17.42 years, and for men it was 20.1. Of which, I might add, probably very few were fundamentalist Mormon polygamists.
I honestly think we need to put Marykay into the no troll feeding zone.
She’s really making just ignorant inane comments and taking up way too much space.
She’s one troll I’m putting on a diet.
Here is a nice legal commentary on statutory rape cases. Guess what? Having sex with minors is not a constitutionally protected right!
http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/02/13/findlaw.analysis.colb.statutory.rape/index.html
“What permits legislatures the discretion to enact such laws, ultimately, is the fact that (like drug possession), consensual sex with minors is not a constitutionally protected activity. Even if it is victimless, sex with a minor may be criminalized and punished severely without resort to a force requirement.”
And goes on to state that it serves a purpose in prosecuting actual rapists in cases where the element of lack of consent is hard to prove, or in prosecuting those who repeatedly prey on the young.
This study focuses on Rhode Island only, but did analysis on history of Statutory Rape cases including age of both participants, relationship between victim and perpetrator, sentencing and complicating factors like elements of coercion or physical abuse.
http://www.brown.edu/Administration/News_Bureau/2005-06/05-053.html
It finds that the stereotype of ‘victimless young love’ is rarely the case. Most perpetrators are at least four years older than their victims, in most cases there are elements of coercion of some kind, psychological or physical or threats of various kinds.
Ron, you will note that I’m trying to change the subject. I really don’t mind alternative view points. It gives us a chance to go over the facts and new people who are lurking may have the same ideas in their minds and can see them argued. But when we are having a meaningful discourse and some comes in screeching hysterical babble (MaryKay) or repeating the same tiresome snariness (Alin) it just gets old very fast.
How about those articles I’m digging up? Cool stuff, huh?
Lack of an edit button. Sigh. That’s “someone comes in” and “snarkiness”
Betty, Im beginning to think its age group,, many 40 yr olds don’t have sound reasoning, lol 🙂
Hey DD1, as a 40 something year old I resent that remark! 40anddelusional/Marykay/Concerned/I_am_a_Bigot is just the queen of the tinfoil hat crazy’s! She needs one of those “pretty” white “hugging” jackets to go with her pink tinfoil crown. I hear her next step is the padded room.
Betty
Your articles are great. I’ve debated the issue of where to draw the line on age differences.
In my mind the 3 year in Texas is too small. The Rhode Island article mentioned 10 years which is in my mind a bit too much. I’d probably go 5 to 7.
Anyway – my two cents FWIW
Excluding you LadySadie 🙂 and anyone else with a sound mind, regardless of age 🙂
That sounds reasonable to me. I also liked the idea of increasing sentencing based on additional circumstances, for instance – position of authority, physical abuse or threats not amounting to actual rape, difference in age, repeated misdemeanor charges leading to a predatory profile, etc.
““he is a member of the International Society for the Study of Dissociation” which means he believes in recovered memories AND he most likely uses hypnosis or some other recovered memory technique such as dream analysis.”
No, it means he has an interet in “disassociation” which is a psychological term for someone who distances themselves from a traumatic experience. I go through it regualarly due to physical abuse in my childhood. It doesn’t mean I have or ever had repressed memories — just that I don’t always “feel” the pain and fear when the event happens. You sure like to create fantasies based on your own lack of moral character, don’t you?
“And sand play – he basis his analysis on sand castles!”
Again, fantasize much? You have no idea what sand play involves but you feel qualified to mock it? What a nasty, narrowminded, judgemental little frog you are.
“HA HA
OK the jury and defense should get to know if he is drawing his conclusions on interpretation of sand castles!
Really, this nutcase is putting a man in jail for the rest of his life based on SAND CASTLES!!!!”
Is this Bill? The same lack of reality is in place with both individuals? The same fantastical conclusions based on absolutely NO evidence or training. Either this is Bill or this is someone who really wants to be Bill. (Or maybe it is just shared characteristics of NPD, who knows?)
“Amazing – hey, Dr. Beal, if you are reading this – you are a nutcase! Get a little therapy of your own!”
I have seen few people who need therapy more than you do.
MaryKay, darlin’,
NOBODY is sending poor Leroy, “an innocent man,” away to prison for the rest of his left… except for Leroy himself. He did the crime; he’ll do the time.
You’re beginning to remind me of Napoleon. After he was exiled to St. Helena, he wrote VOLUMES about how… it was all everybody else’s fault but his own.
Dr. Beal or Beall did not find Leroy guilty; a properly-constituted jury of American citizens did that. And the jury did not commit the crimes; Leroy did that all by himself.
The big point that the Brown article doesn’t touch upon is the pepetrators themselves share a high degree of having been childhood victims. Child abuse linkage to adult re-enactments is a long established link in this form of sexual deviancy. Relaxing the laws against results will increase the crimes involving children which will increase future grown adults that victimize new children. Sets up a perpetual cycle of sex abuse if not opposed and strictly fought against.
After reading the exchange above, all I can say is wow, she is out there!
Is there any update from the courthouse?
What Rattle said, I agree 🙂
Have to agree w/ Ron about trollish behavior of MaryKay. People keep respondong to the red herrings she throws out (like getting in shouting matches about which expert is more qualified) and not picking up on the truly egregious things she says, like sentencing an “innocent” man, and the FLDS being a “minority” … neither of which has the least basis in fact.
Jessop was duly found “guilty” by a jury and in no way can the FLDS be considered a “minority” in the way that term is used in either sociology or law.
Hi Rattle, good to see you here again!
CW, Really quiet up to now but Judge Walthers described today as going to be a really long day.
I tell you – we’re getting one fat troll here…
The troll Malicia comes here and gets a taste of how normals think.
That’s a Good Thing.
Hey, we have decreased the troll population significantly. It used to be much worse.
I didn’t read the Brown study as wanting to relax sentences, but to make them consistent based on certain factors in the crime.
Consistent application of facts is a good troll repellent.
Don’t most trolls live in their own reality?
Well if Miele can answer herself nothing then I’m choosing to disassociate from myself.
Good plan, Ron. Just don’t get a complex.
HAHAHA Ron!!
dang!!! Sho is takin forever to do the sentencing part
I see you found out I’m fat – sure I am but what does this have to do with Dr. Beall?
You know I never used to be fat – I weighed 110 in my younger days but still thought I was fat.
Some people really, really hate fat people – even other over weight people – (horizontal hostility?)
Anyway, it’s amazing how cruel people can be – when I hear cruel things it makes me want to eat more. It’s almost reverse psychology – you don’t want to give in to the horrid person so you do the opposite. Plus you feel bad so you go to the things that provide familiar comfort (my case food).
Ask your friend Dr. Beall – he’ll probably tell you this is a common experience of overweight people.
That’s how I see all these anti-polygamy blogs – they are 95% made up of cruel school yard taunts – which will just make people less likely to leave.
Ron, that’s the spirit!
Its a Beautiful day today in Texas, Sun shining,, no wind, warm!!
It’s gorgeous here, too, in Virginia. 70 degrees and sunny.
80 degrees in central Texas, GORGEOUS; bluebonnets rioting, purple verbena, fruit trees, redbuds… all my cats have hayfever.
MaryKay, nobody cares if you’re fat. I’M fat. WILLIE’S fat. BUDDHA’S fat. PRESIDENT TAFT was fat. My CAT is fat. So?
Is that a new one for the list? Some nutcase on the internet is fat so the FLDS should be allowed to rape little girls?
Ok, I was wrong. The cupcake is NOT half baked, its just a blob of batter in a tin foil shell.
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!! RUTHIE
MaryKay,
Are you married? Do you have daughters?
Would you give them to an old man because your religious leader had a ‘dream’ and assigned the girls as young as 12 to very old men to breed? Like overnight?
Forget schooling, forget any kind of free agency.
If you are female, would you have liked to be raped at age 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 or any age, by an old man you barely knew?
5 children in 5 years? How do you think your body would feel after that with no end of pregnancies ahead??
That’s what this trial is all about.
You break the law, you do your time, religion is no excuse to willingly break the law and call it a test, in order to achieve a higher degree in Heaven. I don’t think so.
I’m not fat.
I’m fluffy.
I’m zaftig. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
a commentary on the fashion of beauty.
Defense rested. Closing arguments on punishment tomorrow at 9:00 am.
trust me just cause your skinny doesnt mean you wont have medical problems
Methinks Ron touched on a sore spot for Marykay, maybe she needs some therapy to help her with her anger issues. How about; Don’t feed the troll, she is already obese & we will on be enabling her eating disorder
I need chocolate.
I’m having some I crumbled atop a brown cow cream top 9 carb yoghurt. I know how to make good better!
Ive been bad today myself,, had a peanut butter cup
where is stamp/rico today?
Whoa, 78% of poll voters predict 30 Years or more for tomorrows Jury verdict. I can hear Willie on the Courtroom steps tomorrow,”Owing to a series of tough breaks, man-made disasters and hard-eared misunderstandings, we regret to announce the Jury’s verdict as being a complete travesty of justice”, yawn.
I still think Willie R. Jessop should become a contestant on,”The Biggest Looser”, every time he would step on the scales, we’d hear another weighty rationalization.
I made irish soda bread yesterday with low fat sour creme and whole wheat flour (well, I used spelt, of course) and raisins. I have been on a diet for three weeks restricting sugar and fat and I thought it was really quite yummy. First St Paddy’s day in pretty much since I turned 21 that I did not have any alcohol.
Good for you Betty!!! havent had chocalate in months, treated myself today!! 🙂
Marykay, anti-polygamy activists are not on trial.
Polygamous child molesters are on trial.
What have you been smoking today?
Too bad the defense couldn’t show that it really was just hatred and bigotry.
Marykay said this on March 18, 2010 at 11:13 AM
Marykay, the defense couldn’t prove ANYTHING because the guy is a criminal and a jury found him GUILTY. He had sex with a 15 year old girl. He had 2 children with this 15 year old girl which was proven by his DNA. He sexually assaulted this 15 year old girl.
Merril Leroy Jessop committed a crime in the State of Texas. End of story, the guy is guilty and EVIDENCE proved it.
Go whine somewhere else.
FU, Love Fred
You have some control over being fat. Unfortunately there is no cure for stupid.
It is lovely today here in the Midwest. But it’s supposed to snow this weekend.
So I wonder – how high will this sentence have to be for the future molesters to intelligently plead out before their trials?
easttroy there is hope for stupid. But it requires educating yourself. Reading facts and evidence is a huge start.
Problem is, the stupid trolls on this blog are too lazy to do that.
Is there a cure for stupid and lazy? Maybe, if they put forth some effort.
I’m not so sure that they are lazy they seem pretty active when jumping to conclusions and they fairly speedy when grasping for straws.
i’m wondering how mudpuppy’s taking the fact that he was wrong, again, and the victim didn’t make an impact statement.
PT it’s hardly as if that faction has much grounding in reality. Some of them, it’s a wonder they can still breathe.
Howdy y’all
Been rounden up cattle today. Thought it might be D-Day for bad boy, looks like there is some book keeping to tend to before the hammer drops, likely Friday.
One thing about Holy Cows and Regular Cows. Their steaks cook up the same.
Jessop will have lots of company in the Cellosteel Kingdom – but they wont bow down to him like he’s used to.
Hope he’s good at taking orders.
My prediction for Leroy’s sentence: 45 years.
That’s good for ham and french toast for breakfast on Saturday.
My guess is probably near FLDS Texas’ guess. I want to say they’ll go a bit softer and put my guess in the 35 to 40 range.
Honestly, I think Hurley did a great job on sentencing. Not only did he get the “he’s such a nice, honest fellow” witnesses, he also put on the head of adult probation up in Lubbock to talk about how probation is no cake walk.
So, in my mind there will be folks on the lighter end of the punishment scale and the jury will compromise to something close to the middle. I’m picking the lower end of the middle because I think Hurley’s adult probation witness did a pretty good job.
I probably shouldn’t do this because something tells me I could have egg on my face come tomorrow.
I wonder once all these convictions are reversed how this will play out in the minds of others who are charged?
After all they will have read people like Ron and Blues saying there is no way this conviction will be reversed – but it will be.reversed.
So it will prove in the minds of some people that LE usually does such sloppy/criminal work, they will be let go.
Think beyond this brief enjoyment.
MaryKay, are you psychic? I doubt you’re a legal expert. But you seem awfully sure these convictions will be reversed.
Ron, I think your Alcoa stock is going up again. 🙂
yo big girl marykay, bite me
OMG she’s back. Can we build a tin foil barricade to corral her in?
Marykay, there are many posters here who have made specific requests to you for EVIDENCE to substantiate the many different claims you have been making for a couple of weeks now.
To date, you have NOT provided one shred of evidence, but you still come back here and spread more lies and make more asinine and baseless comments.
I told you a few days ago that this blog deals in FACTS and EVIDENCE.
If you can’t provide those, then go play on another blog that just deals in baseless and asinine comments.
You’re out of your league here.
Vas t’on!
Dream on, MaryKay. Dream on. The only thing I think is in doubt is the bigamy charge. Everything else is day to day slam dumk; forensic evidence leads to guilty!
Four felony convictions for sexual assault and five remaining indictments to go, including Mr. Perfect the prophet. Marykay claims the cases will be overturned…..Ha,ha,ha….HA, Ha, Ha, hahaha…..HA, HA, HA, HA,HA, hahahahaha…..HA,HA,HA,HA,Ha,Ha,Ha, hahahahahahahahahaha…..AH!!!
Rodney Holms case wasn’t even heard by SCOTUS, they didn’t think there was anything worth discussing, Reynolds vs. United States is still in full force and effect.
Ooooooh I’ve got the giggles! MK believes ALL the convictions will be overturned!
Marykay… words fail me. I’ve lobbied that you not be banned here because you’re so entertaining… but really, you live in a world totally devoid of reality. It’s been said before: you really need to get some help.
What I cant figure out is if Hugh teachs M Kay or if its the other way around.
MKay uses the handle I_BIGOT over there, one of his three or four posters – I think she is drinking out of his dog dish.
Get your own conspiracies, Kay!
Genocide! No Marriage! No consummation! No convictions!
Whoops!
BTW my guesstimate, thought about it before logging on, was the 30-40 year range.
But I also take into account his unrepentant smugness and attitude, and feel the sentence may tilt for longer rather than shorter.
if leroy receives probation, he’ll go behind the ranch walls and commit the same offense again. what proof do we have that they aren’t continuing to marry off underage girls except willie’s “we won’t do it” which is a laugh.
PT
Having Willie claim that has as much weight as Rod Parker saying “It doesnt happen”..
I give the Jury the benefit of the doubt, they know the score, probation wont happen IMHO.
Willie swore under oath he speaks for himself only.
As long as language isn’t threatening or foul I’m OK with the trolls to an extent. On the other hand this is no place for lies and nutty notions, it’s for truth and facts.
Sooo I wonder how this AM’s sentencing hearing is coming along.
I just realized that the time stamp here is still on non-daylight savings time. Somebody change the clock, it’s been almost a week!
ZXC on Bills site:
“Look people, Rons legal analysis is just that…legal analysis. We all know that every man on trial will get convicted and every conviction will result in long sentences. Those guys will be fried with or without legal commentary and a bit of legal commentary might just help everyone understand why.”
==============================
WHAT!?!? A brainfart of understanding!?!?! Whoa Nellie! Yeah, Bill’s crew needs for “everyone understand why.”
Because most of them simply think its a cool thing to do.
Guess not in Texas!
What time will the sentence be decided and announced? The suspense is killing me!
Wow, lots of catching up to do here and waiting to hear about Leroy’s sentence… I’m guessing more than 30 years.
.
In the meantime, I see Lost in Poligville put up another entertaining post a couple of days ago: Confessions of a Plate Toucher
http://peanutheadinpoligville.blogspot.com/2010_03_01_archive.html
(Apologies if someone already posted that… I’m sort of speed-reading through this already-long new discussion… especially the trit-trot, trit-trot troll stuff)
Lost in Poligville is a hoot.
Closing statements have been made and the Jury began deliberations @ 10:35AM, local time.
Could be at any time.
Good article with courtroom drawings
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/mar/18/closing-arguments/?comments_id=128334
so they’ve been out an hour and 20 minutes, longer than the guilty verdict took.
My brother in law opines that they’ll wait to announce sentence till after the free lunch.
PT
It’s not unusual for sentencing to take longer – especially in a case like this where the facts were simply overwhelming.
Rattle
I would – wouldn’t you?
No. I’ve served jury duty. I’d pay to not have to eat bad bbq and cold french fries.
Probably, Ron.
“Again, this sounds a bit harsh, but if the highest degree of heaven is filled with Mormons I think I’ll “rot” in hell with the Kennedy brothers and Ghandi and Johnny Cash. That’ll work for me. ”
I love this quote. Kennedy brothers, Ghandi and Johnny Cash. Yeah.
I would too!!!!
So, some guy thinks probabtion would be okay? you gotta be shittin me!!! 😦
i’m guessing that the court provides pretty good food. i’ve never heard jurors complain about it.
Maybe it comes from Fernandez’.
fuentes and miss hatties are both close to the courthouse. i’m not sure where fernandez’ is.
Its 75 years!
Randy Mankin in Eldorado confirms it. 75 years + $10,000 fine.
Yep — 75 years it is!
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/mar/19/breaking-news-jessop-sentenced-to-75-years/
Alright!!! That’s one less child molester Texas will have to worry about out on the street (or in the compound).
I bet that wiped the smirk off his face!
kasoe
i feel a “willie it’s just not fair” press conference coming on.
i’m betting the sentence wiped that smurk off his face.
lehi barlow jeffs aka allred must be quaking in his priesthood undies and warren’s probably begging not to be sent to texas because if leroy got 75 years for a 15 year old, i can see life for the 12 year old.
guess we’ll have to wait for the 5:00 news to hear willie’s blustering.
Mamas, don’t let your babies grow up into LDS priesthood …
Wonder if any of those guys got messy magickal undies this afternoon?
In a word,”REMANDED”!
Who was it that thought moving the trials to San Angelo might result in lighter sentences? So much for that idea. All I can say is, “God bless Texas!”
I still think we should send the bill to Utah for cleaning up their mess.
75 years.
Dang.
His brother Raymond got lucky.
In honor of the GREAT San Angelo Jury:
God blessed Texas with His own hand
Brought down angels from the promised land
Gave ’em a place where they could dance
If you wanna see heaven brother here’s your chance
Juror’s have been sent to spread the message
God blessed Texas
Well,, Im satisfied with that verdict! The man got what he deserved
Ya think Larry King would be interested in getting a comment from Leroy’s crying mama-in-law Sally?
Nah……
I do believe God is sending the FLDS a very strong message!
75 yrs. Ouch. Ok….who’s up next.
LadySadie, I think God has been sending FLDS message for quite a while, and perhaps they were ignoring them but THIS message, 75yrs was LOUD and CLEAR!
WOW!! I am at a loss for words!! West Texas sent a very strong message!!! yee-haw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I do believe God is sending the FLDS a very strong message!
But it’s only a test to prepare the people for the destructions and the redemption of Zion.
Thus sayeth the prophet who is looking at a Texas jury in his bright future.
That sentence is a strong message and I hope it gives Utah and Arizona a backbone.
Will the next trial also be in San Angelo????
DD, beyond ‘LOUD’ more like deafening. Dan Hurley obviously was misreading the jurors reactions throughout most of the trial. The ‘God Bless’ red, white and blue tie was just the first misstep. What does it for me to access this verdict is the fact that two children were born before the mother had turned 18 years of age and Michael Emack filing his appeal that ‘celestial’ marriage has a varied meaning than civil marriage.
Well long sentences like these do make the appeals court take notice.
Judges who handle appeals see lots of criminal cases – they know even the most violent murders get a lesser sentence. To your little group, polygamy is the worst sin in the world – but more sophisticated people know better.
Your mantra “it won’t be overturned on appeal” isn’t going to make it so.
Give this a few years and the men are going to feek vert safe in taking part in underage marriages when it’s overturned and most likely at least in Canada polygamy will be decriminalized. So can you say at that point your group will has achieved it’s goal. Because in the long run, the only lasting thing you are doing is bringing suffering onto children.
So any clue as to the meaning of the bit from the San Angelo paper about the FDLS residents being instructed to bring their shoes indoors during the raid?
Keep dreaming MaryKay!
How much you want to bet there are THOUSANDS of FLDS women and girls secretly doing the “happy dance” and sending up prayer of thanks to Texas tonight?
LadySadie, Unless things have changed a whole lot more than I’ve imagined, I doubt it. I do wish you were right though.
Legal lesson of the day:
Flag ties on child molesters? NOT a good idea.
MaryKay, you missed the whole friggin point, as usual! This was NOT about polygamy. He was charged, tried and convicted for sexual assault of a CHILD! What’s wrong with you????
kasoe
Marykay, you have such an insightful side of hope in the eternal dream that polygamy will ever be drug out of the ‘Cave of Barbarism’. Canada is not going to embrace polygamy any sooner than it has not to date. Why on Earth would a society of monogamists embrace polygamy when their wives, preachers and child advocates are dead set against it? Fundamentalist Mormondom hasn’t made polygyny a secret, well at least not for a very long time and they have always lied about its worth, so no one wants anything to do with a FLDS practice that is secretive and lies about itself.
Actually, at the risk of inciting trolls, Marykay raises an interesting point.
The length of a prison sentence does at least register on a Court of Appeals radar. It’s never a criteria they use to decide the case, but in close cases it registers and could somewhat affect the decision as to whether to grant a new trial or to affirm the case.
Now having said that I don’t think this will be one of those cases. Sounds like they’re still pinning their hopes on the SW which I’ve yet to see anything to make that a winning issue on appeal.
75 yrs, now that’s life !
i’m thinking an email campaign to larry king to have him reinterview ole sally and see what her thoughts are now that 2 of her son-in-laws have been convicted of sexually abusing 2 of her daughters. also check in on her daughters next in line and make sure they haven’t been married off.
if he is up for parole in 38, that would make 73. kinda old for babymaking don’t ya think!!!
So any clue as to the meaning of the bit from the San Angelo paper about the FDLS residents being instructed to bring their shoes indoors during the raid?
That is actually from an event in 2004 when TCEQ and law enforcement were on the property. There is a record of it in one of Warren’s dictations (that is the “sacred record” from the news article). Women and children who were living at the ranch at the time were instructed to stay inside and away from being seen when the “outsiders” were on the property.
I would bet that Nichols was more artful than the blurb in the article when he wove that example of FLDS intent to deceive into his closing remarks.
In fairness to Matthew Waller, though, he is still somewhat new to the YFZ story and is doing a good job with it.
For Mr. Hurley,
If the testimony of the witness that the victim was developmently delayed was “inaccurate”, then why didn’t you challenge that witness under oath in the courtroom…maybe you didn’t want the jurors to know the truth…
I know that it is your job to defend anyone who pays you, but please don’t insult the intelligence of everyone by saying that a 30 year old man(at the time of this marriage)didn’t have a choice but that a 15 year old girl who had never been told that she could say no, did have a choice.
Oh, and thank you Mr. Hurley for implicating Merril Leroy Jessop’s father, Merril Jessop, in assisting the commission of crime by “encourging his son to rape (in essence) a 15 year old girl by marrying her. Oh, isn’t Merril Jessop (the father) the head of the YFZ ranch? And isn’t he the one who proclaims that the FLDS are a family oriented people yet he is hiding from paying any child support for almost 7 years for his 8 children (one who is severly handicapped)? This case isn’t about religious persecution…it is about child abuse, spousal abuse and an utter disrespect of women.
So Mary Kay, you believe that polygamy will be decriminalized in Canada?
Don’t count your chickens before they hatch. Remember that there are more Moslem polygamists in North America than there are FLDS. As soon as you decriminalize polygamy for one religious group, you must decriminalize it for all religious groups. So if it were decriminalized, the first thing that would happen is that every Moslem terrorist in Canada would sudden invoke their “right” under Islamic law to have four wives, no doubt imported from Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Africa, Indonesia, or Malaysia. These “wives” will no doubt be “freedom fighters” themselves – and they will be right at our doorstep in Canada. That is exactly what you will get, Mary Kay, whether or not you want to acknowledge it.
So go get your burqa on, Mary Kay.
Yeah, That’s Life:
Brooke Adams and other apologists for the FLDS,I think you owe an apology to Carolyn Jessop, Elissa Walls, Dan Fisher and the many other individuals who have been crying out about the heinous crimes that occur within the FLDS under the guise of religion. Regardless of what you think about the legality of the evidence from the raid, you must condemn the abuse of women and children that have occurred at the YFZ ranch. And maybe Brooke should rethink her previous blog posting about how Barbara (Merril’s wife) was victimized by Carolyn..if you recall, Barbara was Merril Leroy Jessop’s – just convicted of child abuse in Texas – mother.
The FLDS version of That’s Life:
That’s life, that’s what all the people say.
You’re with your tweener wife in April,
Shot down in May
But I know I’m gonna change that tune,
When the court of appeals rules, rules in June.
I said that’s life, and as funny as it may seem
Some bigots and haters get their kicks,
Stompin’ on a dream
But I don’t let it, let it get me down,
‘Cause this priesthood world keeps spinning around
That’s life
I tell ya, I can’t deny it,
I thought I was gonna be lifted up,
But my heart just ain’t gonna buy it.
And if I didn’t think it was worth one single try,
I’d jump right off that cellosteel kingdom and then I’d fly
That’s life
That’s life and I can’t deny it
Many times I thought of cutting out
But Uncle Warren won’t buy it
But if there’s nothing shakin’ come 20 years nigh,
I’m gonna roll myself up in a big ball and die
My, My
LOL Ron, that is terrific !!!!!!!!!
Now that’s funny Ron!!
HAHAHA Ron 🙂
MaryKay, who has not been right in her(?) legal predictions once, is taunting us with the certainty (sic) of reversal on appeal. OK, whatever.
If anyone (and especially you female anyone’s) gets a chance to see Michael Buble in concert – take it. Not being a female, I was sort of – eh, whatever. He give a great show, sounds great live and it more than worth the price of admission. It’s funny, he interacts with the audience, and got some lady up there who actually did “grab a$$” on him.
He’s probably the closest modern equivalent to Frank Sinatra around.
We are going to a Jazz concert tonite,locally, so excited 🙂
Marykay, based on her track record in posts, makes a very poor psychic and/or lawyer.
Have fun deputydog…I’m home alone..hubby is still in the field..so..guess we will do nothing tonight…farming comes first, right now–trying to beat the bad weather that is arriving later tonight…boo-hoo–poor me…maybe we can do something tomorrow…
Hey Highlands, give me a search warrant for 600 of your friends and family. Allow me to read every document, read their letters of their ministers, take DNA, and hold their children for two months.
Based on the rate of crimes in the general population – there is about a 95% probability I will come up with at least 10 horrible crimes.
Go into any inner city housing project – you will find tons of drugs and guns. Some bigoted people would use this to “prove” minorities need to be destroyed.
Educated people realize minorities with a history of discrimination often have problems BECAUSE of the discrimination.
hey, mudpuppy just made wee willie head of the church. does he have the authority to make such promotions?
The call for a Mistrial came because the “Judge” in this case openly showed her disdain and contempt for Willie Jessop in front of the Jury pool.
As the head of the Church, and as the ONLY member of his family in the Court at the time, there should have been a place for him.
By throwing him out, she told the Jury, he’s a bad guy.
By bringing attention again to Willie every day of the Trial, Nichol’s reinforced that image in the Jury’s mind.
That’s why you excuse juries. That’s why you have sidebars. That’s why you have in-camera.
You think that jury doesn’t know who Willie is?
You think they never watched TV?
If any other person did what barbie did, it would be Jury tampering. Even she can’t do that. Hence, the Motion for Mistrial.
1. Bill on March 19th, 2010 at 9:10 pm
Ah, the old theory that out of every hundred random men, we will find 10 having sex with 14 year olds! It’s an oldie, but a goodie! We just keep recycling the same old excuses here.
I’m working a shift at the women’s shelter, which is why I am incognito tonight.
Betty
I thought it was only jury tampering if you allowed Willie to sit there and glare at them.
Betty
If the trials keep alternating between San Angelo and Eldorado, how soon before they run out of prospecive jurors if they have to keep calling 200-300 at a time? It’s got to be impacting the choice of jury pool…I would think. I know I get called, almost like clock work, every 3 yrs, for local or federal service [that’s 30 days here]. Now, I live in a large county,so we have lots to choose from. But, how soon before the trials might need to be parcelled out to other counties in Texas?
And…I too am happy with 75yrs. As I stated on BLues blog–And BTW CONGRATS on the Wikipedia entry!!!
Pretty soon Texas will hafta build a new flds wing to one of it’s prisons! They can call it ‘The Child Justice’ wing. I wonder how these guys will be perceived by the prison population, as a whole. It’s been pretty well documented that child molesters/rapists are the lowest of the low in prison hierarcy. Then again, they might do just fine in prison. Instead of the profit telling them how to live their daily lives, they’ll now have a warden controlling it.
thought it was only jury tampering if you allowed Willie to sit there and glare at them.
Eh, if I were on the jury, I’d just be thinking, “man that fat guy behind the defendant sure is an angry dick.”
Ideally, I wouldn’t find out that he’s FLDS. However, if I did, I’d probably add 10 years to Leroy Jessop’s sentence for associating with intemperate dicks.
mc1999
The population of San Angelo is a little over 88 thousand. I think they can burn through quite a few 2 to 3 hundred jury panels before running out.
love it ron!!!
MaryKay, you just don’t get it….systemized child abuse and r*pe is not condoned in any society…bringing up girls with no hope believing that they have to submit to having s*x with old men who they don’t know to do to heaven is not acceptable in any civilized society, and finally, taking a girl who is just beginning puberty, who has never dated or been kissed and subjecting them to the sexually desires of old men is just digusting and morally reprehensible. The fact that you choose to ignore this and blame others is just amazing!!! Finally, why did Leroy abandon his 3 wives and 17+ kids in colorado city with no support and move to Texas and get two new wives? Is this acceptable behavior? Who is taking care of them? YOU?!?!
Highland,
Well it’s sure condoned in Texas – as long as you aren’t a FLDS member. The let a Texas cop off for having sex with a teenager.
Thanks you TEXAS. 75 years.
Mk, you have a scratch in your record. I think if you rub it with sandpaper, you can fix that problem.
MK….just answer one question among the hundreds you choose to ignore..that question is “Do you think it was ok for Leroy to have s*x on a continuing basis to a 15 year old girl who had never dated before and who did not choose him?
MK,
You still haven’t answered my question above. So what happens when the Canadians decriminalize polygamy and Moslem extremist terrorists use this to import 4 Islamic extremist wives from Iraq, Pakistan, or Afghanistan for each Moslem man in Canada, because it is their right to do so under Shari’a law?
You do realize that this will happen, right, because polygamy will no longer be a crime in Canada and the Moslem religion allows a man to have 4 wives each, so these women must then be allowed to immigrate….
BTW, do you think it is “religious bigotry and hatred” that we do not allow Moslem men in the US to beat their wives as a form of discipline? You do realize that wife beating is mandated in the Koran by Mohammed, don’t you ? Are we denying men of the Islamic faith their rights by not permitting wife beating in the US?
Highlands, of course I don’t think it was ok. I also don’t believe in murder but if you sentence all white men to 20 years but blacks to the death penalty – I think that’s wrong – not because I support murder but because unequal application of the law is also a crime.
Texas is not treating FLDS members like other Texans. Like I said the EXACT same prosecutor let a Texas cop go free after he had sex with a teenager!
Mary Kay,
Answer my question.
[Personal attack deleted – ADMIN]
Moderation warning!
*sighs*
Did the cop “marry” the girl? Does he have lots of other “wives?” Did the girl get more than an 8th grade education? Did she get pregnant and have his baby? and then get pregnant and have his baby again? Did he argue that God told him to do it?
Let’s go a little farther.
Did the cop tell the judge, “it’s my religion to knock up as many young girls as possible,” or did he say, “your Honor, I made a big mistake, and I truly regret my actions”?
No Mary Kay,
There are Moslem extremists here, and they could use polygamy to import 4 wives each here. Moslem women don’t approve of polygamy, for the most part. I’m not from Texas,I’m not “Mr.” and I have plenty of wonderful Moslem friends (female) who object to the fact that Islamic law allows wife beating.
So Mary Kay, should we allow Moslem men to engage in wife beating, because their religion mandates it ?
It is in the Koran, you know. Shouldn’t we allow all religious practices ?
where’s the study that says cops are wife beaters?
Post it here. I want to read it.
You make up studies which don’t exist.
Exactly. Perhaps the jury came to the 75yrs sentence based on some equation of estimated number of sex assault violations on the same 15yrs. old.
Nope, I’m sure to the cop is was just about sex. No he didn’t have any intention of making a long-term commitment to the girl. It had nothing to do with religion it was purely about sex.
But he WAS in a position of authority and he DID have sex.
So what Lisa is saying is sex with a teenager is not worth ANY jail time if it’s just sex.
If it’s sex based on a long-term religious marriage – it’s a crime worth life in prison?
So the “REAL” crime was the religious committment!
Mk, my son is a police officer, and I can guaran-damn-tee ya he doesn’t beat his wife.
Long term religious marriage..lol..read Emacks Motion to Dismisss his bigamy charge.
No, Mk, the real crime is deliberate disregard of the law.
where’s the article on cops who are wife beaters, Mary Kay?
I want to read it.
and tell me why we should not allow Muslim men to beat their wives if their religion requires that they do so ?
Really Rattle, I don’t think you can know that for 100% sure.
Why don’t you put a camera in every room of their house, read their personal papers, review their computer files, take their kids about for a few months.
Then you can know how he really treats his wife. Until then you can only take a good guess.
Oh, yes, sunshine, I can know it for sure. She’d flatten him in about two seconds flat if he even thought about such a thing.
Hey Mary Kay,
where is the article on cops and wife beating ?
post it here.
I want to review it.
Why can’t Muslim men in the US beat their wives if the Koran requires it?
Islamic law teaches that a woman must be executed if she commits adultery.
Why not allow the imams to perform executions ?
Ditto. And until we put cameras on the FLDS compound to find out what really is going on…the best we can do is
the 75 years.
You still have not produced the fake article you cited.
and thus, another evening with Mary Kay the troll draw to a close. outrageous statements, no documentation, no answers to pertinent questions, and baseless cries of bigotry and discrimination.
note that she still hasn’t answered why we should not allow practices of other religions, such as wife beating for disobedience, or execution for adultery, to be recognized in the US.
Anon, Mk has made a semi-professional career of throwing out wild accusations and then clamming up when documentation is requested. Some of us have been watching her do this since April 2008.
I guess I should say in her favor, at least she’s consistent.
(((What great dinner theater… Im sitting here, eating my left over corned beef and cabbage [yum!] watching MK being pommelled in the MK vs Reality match!!)))
I can’t find any video news about the sentencing. Did Willy or any FLDS make any public statements about this sentence?
JonDana,
Here is a link with a video attached. No statements as of yet. http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/mar/19/breaking-news-jessop-sentenced-to-75-years/
And the good news is:
The next trial is for Lehi Barlow Jeffs for sexual assault of a child on April 26.
http://www.reporternews.com/news/2010/mar/19/defendant-gets-75-years/
And thanks imsoS
Are we havin fun yet!! LMAO MK and her air headed thoughts,
mc1199 said: “What great dinner theater… ”
heehee….ain’t it though? I just got home from an almost 5 hour road trip — fantastic visit with my oldest and dearest friend….so I thought I’d drop by to see how the trial went.
75 years! woot. This MK character is a riot. I’m awaiting the eventual ALL CAPS posting — the virtual screaming when you know the veins in their tiny heads have burst. carry on ~
oooo…. yeah, when will Fat-Bastard-Willie speechify for us?
After he has his 4 chili dogs, and dozen donuts!!! lol
Maybe FBW has learned to keep his trap shut. He doesn’t improve the situation whenever he opens his giant maw!
This, from the gosanangelo article: “One of the prosecuting attorneys, Wes Mau, began the closing arguments for the punishment phase with a focus on deterrence.
“Deterrence requires a price that’s too high. We set them high enough so that people don’t want to pay that price,” Mau said.”
I’ve got a suggestion for a deterrence with a TOO HIGH price: start prosecuting the mothers.
Yeah, Willie’s Unctuous Rant is coming.
This time the keep sweet game face may be coming off. I think the crime family may feel threatened.
willie’s an idiot. he glared at me as i walked down the stairs on wednesday. i dare that man to say anything to me.
Unctuous — excellent word. Kudos Granny
I totally like the ‘prosecute the mothers’ idea.
I somehow feel another letter coming from Willie at Truth will Prevail,lol
Truth is prevailing, isn’t it.
And the FLDS children are being freed in a meaningful manner.
“A 24-year-old Sandy man who was having sex with a 14-year-old girl was sentenced Friday to probation and six months in jail.”
From the SLTrib.
Shame on you, Utah! Oughta follow Texas’ example and take sexual assault of a minor seriously.
Mary Kay: To your little group, polygamy is the worst sin in the world – but more sophisticated people know better.
………………..
What a tool you are. He was convicted of child molestation, not polygamy.
DECENT people, “sophisticated” or not, are disgusted by grown men impregnating girls barely out of elementary school just so they can rack up enough points to get their own planet to rule over.
Too bad you don’t see how ridiculous and sick it all is.
Another, from the Trib:
“Ex-Helper teacher gets 120 days in jail for sex with teen”
Girls aren’t worth much there, FLDS or not. At least she wasn’t pimped out by her parents.
Marykay said:
Anon @ 9:39 p.m. You racist pig – Most Muslims are good people who are not terrorists. BTW: Mr. Pig, studies have proven cops are big wife beaters.
I’m sure your little bigoted Texas mind…
Wow – has it dawned on you that you’re calling someone out for being racist which involves stereotypes and then you turn around and stereotype cops?
The irony is that you’re a bigot also. You’re just bigoted against cops.
From the gosananglo article, Hurley said “We felt the jury received evidence not accurate or true.”
“Hurley said evidence he would view as inaccurate included testimony that the victim was “developmentally delayed” from testimony of one witness who knew the victim as a child.”
This may explain the long sentence. Developmentally delayed.
“Hurley said the notion that the victim was brought up to be abused is “absolutely false.” “They train the children to love each other, to be respectful of others,” Hurley said.” What a crock. Children learn by what you DO, not by what you say. And if your actions say that women are chattel who can be used whatever way their owner wishes, then that is what your child learns. Of course they are brought up to be abused; they are taught total obedience to the priesthood and sacrifice of themselves in those very words. What is this man’s definition of abuse? I understand defending your client. But you don’t have to drink the same Koolaid.
““Was it his free choice to do that that evening?”” Was someone holding a gun to his head? Did he have the keys to his own truck? Could he get out past the guard gate? Is Hurley trying to say that these people who teach love and respect also use coercion on a man that is so serious that we should allow him to commit rape?
That is double speak. They teach love and respect and then are so coercive that a temple builder has no choice but obey? HE DOESN’T have a choice, but his victim, a developmentally delayed 15 year old DOES have a choice?
Maybe the jury gave him 75 years because they were annoyed by Hurley’s circular logic!
He just goes on and on with the crazy talk. The victim is not complaining – she has made her voice clear. To whom? Why is she not on the stand? Because we would know for sure that she was developmentally delayed and under educated? Because she would say that she accepted being given away like a tractor to this man to use in the baby farm because that’s what Heavenly Father told Warren to do? Then they could use that testimony against Warren in his trail, folks! Can’t have that!
Then he blames “politicians” for wanted to imprison Jessop. Sounds tome like 12 of his peers wanted to put him away for quite awhile.
In case you can’t tell, Hurley is annoying me thoroughly. What a crack, that’s all I can say. What a crock.
I think we should start a pool on whether or not any of the remaining 8 will plead out, and if any of them will turn state’s evidence. Is anyone going to “fail” this “test”? Do you think they are actually afraid for their lives if they did testify against Jeffs and or each other?
I asked my husband what he thought of the 75 year sentence. He said “I think Texas wants them to go back to Utah and crawl back under the rock they came from.”
I’m shocked that we have to be subjected to the likes of Mary Kay.
This “woman” makes up articles and studies which don’t exist, and cannot produce them for scholarly discussion when requested to do so.
Mary Kay, this is an intellectual blog, devoted to the study of relevant legal, medical, sociological and psychological literature regarding the practice of religious polygamy and underage marriage. If you cannot engage in rational and respectful discourse, you are not welcome here. Post on one of those other blogs which you frequent.
I agree, CW. This has gone beyond an exchange of opposing opinions and devolved into irrational nonsense. I think “her” presence is a detriment to the blog as it blocks meaningful conversations that are ongoing. She’s making Alinusara look good and that’s really scary.
If the FLDS dont know they got hit by God’s lightning, they cant see the sky for the clouds.
WOW, first we get vicious Thunderstorms, Then Wind, now snow, and more wind!! Surely Spring is coming soon!!
I sure hope so deputydog–we are having thunderstorms right now–and there is talk of snow,,,ohhh…no!!!
you’ve got snow dd1? we got the rain/thunderstorms last night and now it’s chilly.
It’s supposed to be 75 degrees and sunny all weekend.
According to Willie in the FLDS update meeting (where the faithful are told what is really happening), this heavy sentence is partly the result of Texas being very upset that Arizona ruled their evidence as being obtained illegally.
He also said there was no parole available to Leroy because the jury didn’t feel he would change his ways–this was to Leroy’s credit that he is showing he is loyal to Priesthood.
btw, did one or more of the flds lawyers make the judge upset? Acccording to Willie, there is a hearing next week to decide if one or more of the lawyers will be fined or serve prison time. Willie claims this is part of a conspiracy on the part of Texas and the government to intimidate the lawyers willing to defend the flds.
Willie and the Clown Show, he’s gotten SO predictable. THANKS, Anony.
So if Texas is so horrible, why did they just buy more land there?
That’s what I want to know Betty–I wished they would just pack up and leave on the same road they drove in on.
Anon@10:12
The spin gets harder and harder the more reality sets in. First of all even if you assume the FLDS talking point that “Arizona ruled” the evidence illegal, the jurors knew nothing about that case. They were presented with a choice anywhere from 5 to 99 years.
No parole? LMAO – let’s see how loyal Leroy is 37 years from now.
Lastly, I’d think if something as big as sanctions or contempt was filed against one of the attorneys then the media would have picked it up. It’s possible it could have been missed, but doubtful.
Ron, I’m the 10:12 poster, and I don’t think reality has set in for most of the flds. This is all a great test of their faith and loyalty to Priesthood, the key word there is loyalty.
Yes, he said no parole which isn’t exactly correct, but I believe he is correct in stating that as of right now Leroy has no intentions of changing.
As usual, you are right about the jurrors which decided the sentence not knowing anything about Arizona. Still doesn’t stop the spin.
Anon
Yeah, I agree perhaps reality hasn’t set it – It’s just getting harder and harder for them to try to explain the cold hard facts of reality.
Butbutbut Willie the FlimFlamMan tried.
I wonder which license plates the FLDS will pick for their vehicles in Texas
thie one
or
this one?
Willie you Clown, are you really telling those people that the jurors have any clue of the fairytale world you and they believe in?
Do you ever back up and trip over that dumb arse you’ve got hanging off the backside of you?
It seems yesterday in Brownsville, someone called in a hostage situation call from a hearing impaired device.
To answer the call LEO’s had the Rangers there with a SWAT team and also an armored personnel carrier.
It turned out to be a hoax call. Since they found no one breaking any laws, no one was arrested.
One more time. Since they found no one BREAKING ANY LAWS no one was arrested.
Imagine that.
http://fwix.com/brownsville/share/d4e2f41088/call_scrambles_police_turns_out_to_be_hoax
Interesting about this being a lesson for FLDS members. It usually doesn’t work that way. Regardless of your mantra – everyone knows this is going to get overturned (the UEP and Warren’s UT iffy, but TX will get overturned).
When someone gets away with a crime there thought process is usually not “I’m almost went to jail, I shouldn’t do that again”. Its “I got away with it last time, I get away with it again”.
This is not just my opinion, it’s based on studies.
Back in the 80’s the FBI had a sting of the Chicago Courts. At the time, I thought this would change the courts forever – boy was I wrong. The FBI did such a poor job many cases fell apart.
But I still thought it scared them enough things would change. I was wrong again.
The only thing that changed was the corrupt judges and lawyers made their behavior less blatant – the corruption continued.
And you will continue to be wrong.
Geez, Mk, what ARE you going to say when the convictions are NOT overturned?
Yes, FLDS thought that since their criminal acts were overlooked in their homestates, things would go well in Texas also.
How’s that workin’ for y’all?
MK lives in her own delusional reality, don’t let a little thing like facts spoil her tea party.
path tell me please, I don’t see well: what’s your icon depict?
“To answer the call LEO’s had the Rangers there with a SWAT team and also an armored personnel carrier.”
You mean they didn’t trace the call, run a background chec on the owner of the phone and call the Pope first? What sloppy policework!
btw, did one or more of the flds lawyers make the judge upset? Acccording to Willie, there is a hearing next week to decide if one or more of the lawyers will be fined or serve prison time.
I wonder if this had to do with the subpoenas? Eric Nichols subpoened several people from the ranch. He also gave them to Merril Jessop’s attorney.
What’s the point of a Court having the power to issue a subpoena if they have no power to enforce it.
“Only a Coward Would Stand Up for a Child Molester!”
Miele, are you saying that Merrill’s attorney was placed above the judge’s power and he negated the judge’s order/s? If so then he needs to be brought before the court.
From what I gathered, Hurley kept telling Judge Walther to keep admonishing the jury about the same instruction “FLDS bad acts arent Leroys bad acts” and she held a timeout after he evidently ignored her.
After viewing the tape of him on gosanangelo, and reading some of his quips, I’ll just say I think his best days are behind him and he is running on autopilot.
Granny, I may be confused, but I thought I read somewhere that since Merril Jessop was the defacto ‘power that be’ at the ranch that the subpeonas were also given to his attorney. Right here on FLDS TEXAS is Eric Nichols witness list.
Stamp, it could be about Hurley. PT mentioned a time out. (On PT vs Willie, my buck’s on PT.)
OR it could be that Willies ‘lying for the lard’ again.
it is a ball of grey yarn standing on wire feet with two knitting needles through it and red yarn coming out of the knitting needle holes.
No dog, I’m standing up for the children who were harmed by the people involved in the hoax call. The suffering inflicted on these children is going unpunished and the same people are STILL in a postition of power to harm once again.
The State made the decision to ignore the harm done to the children during the raid which was cause by an illegal act.
I’m sticking up for ALL minorities who deserve to be treated just like good old white Texas Baptists.
Give stat rape probation or life in prison – doesn’t matter to me.
[ 2nd MODERATION WARNING – no personal attacks – ADMIN]
Does path girl stand for pathways?
no loopy MK for pathology in which I work
Malicia you may feel sorry that children were removed from the clutches of a sexual abuser of children. Most don’t, really. Most heave a sigh of relief that the world is proceeding as it ought. Likewise, we find behavior like yours, and the criminals’, unacceptable behavior. It’s just human nature — evolved.
I don’t know what your baptist thing is, I was born in Ohio. Perhaps you could explain your bigotry but I doubt I’d find it acceptable behavior.
There was no raid, let alone any illegal one, that’s all in your mind and Willie’s butt. Go sit with pudgy willie and a dozen donuts.
You’ve been told by a few and now let me add my vote, there’s no place for your sick dreams and nonsense here on this sort of a blog. There are more appropriate places for you ignorant bigots, you know where they are.
path, that’s what the icon looked like but … aw well, tee hee.
Oh good. We’re making progress. MK is standing up for All minorities. I guess that includes the Hispanics that sent MLJ to Huntsville for seventy something years.
What MINORITY do the CAUCASIAN FLDS members belong to?????? Is the nutcase trying to make pedophile child rapist a legally recognized minority now?
Sometimes I donno if Malicia is Willie or a Barlow.
Willie is outright goofy to imagine that this jury of west Texas common folk would know anything about FLDS fairytale beliefs. Or funnier maybe the BillBurps. Yes he expects FLDS to believe they would.
LS – If you try to find logic in MK’s arguments, you might as well follow Alice down the rabbit hole.
MK, you sound like a broken record, playing the same worn out old tune…
“Im standing up for all minorities” Yeah right,, LOL
Malicia can go picket Huntsville with a flaming mango
Sadie
Many Jews and Muslims are also from European genetic decent – but they are still considered minorities. Same for gays and lesbians.
And I am standing up for all minorities. It’s a shame organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center doesn’t realize this case is going to be used by many hate groups to target minorities.
And I am standing up for all minorities.
Maybe you should shut up and sit down.
so along that line MK, the Aryan Nations is a minority that needs to e protected?
Huesos sets a bowl of Troll Chow outside the door and far down the bottom of the steps out by the curb.
Amen to that, Huesos.
Huesos, you set out the troll chow and I will line up the slinky’s at the top of the steps.
I’ll light some mangoes on fire.
O drat I haven’t seen my slinky since I moved. I hope it hasn’t escaped.
Flds aren’t a RACE MK!! They are americans, born and raised in America, if they can’t follow the laws of this country, they go to jail just LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.
Hurley was in the Judge’s face and argued with her numerous times. Since it happened more than once when I was in the courttoom, I’m going to go out on a limb and say it happened when I wasn’t there as well. I don’t think he was putting on a show just for my benefit. I hadn’t heard about any sanctions, but the Judge was pretty hot. Hurley caused the jurors to be sent from the room 3 times in a 2 hour or so span while Carolyn Jessop was on the stand.
And speaking of Carolyn, she did an awesome job with her testimony. If Hurley or Willie or Leroy didn’t like it, they had ample opportunity to bring in an FLDS person or persons to contradict it, but they chose not to, so they now loose the right to gripe about it.
As for the people who didn’t show up from the ranch that were on the state’s subpoena list. I’m not sure if they were ever served or not. I think you have to have personal service or a request of substitute service after so many tries to get personal service. The sanctions could also come from the child support case in which no money has been paid as of yet. I’m betting that Carolyn’s attorney has filed a motion for sanctions against the attorney and a motion for contempt against Merril. I haven’t seen them, but that’s what I’d do if it was me.
oh yeah, flds are only minorities in their own mind. to everyone else they are white anglo-saxon.
PT – Thanks for the clarification. What you says makes sense.
14 year old girls who aren’t spirit wives at the YFZ are a minority, I reckon.
I would love to see MaryKay, I_Hate_Bigots, 40 and ??, malicca be banned from this blog. Her wild accusations and far out conspiracy theories are bad enough, but she also indulges in personal attacks. Her posts have become more outlandish as more of the Texas trials have resulted in lengthy prison sentences. Let her join deci duane in some outer darkness.
I’ve seen enough of Malicia’s tripe as well.
Damn PT – you’re actually creating a “tease” situation.
The first thing to check is whether there are any settings in this case in the next couple of weeks. Normally after verdict/sentencing the only thing scheduled will be motion for new trial which only needs be filed within 30 days with a setting within, I think 90 days.
If there are any settings between now and 30 days, that’s a good indication that there are some behind the scene issue that may be fermenting.
A few folks know my email, the most visible being Stamp. So if you know Stamp’s email – let him know and he can contact me. If we know there is anything interesting I can use my law office accounts to order it from the clerk.
I may contact the clerk and order some stuff and ask you to pick it up. Do you have a scanner?
yeah ron, i have a scanner and i’ll be happy to pick it up, but i have to go to eldorado, so it might take a few days to get it. i think they will email it to you as i heard mary ann on the phone with an attorney giving him the info so he could get some stuff via email.
you know, we’ve never heard what happened to spiritual unity. maybe next time i run into wee willie i’ll ask about her.
ok, all better now.
PT
Thanks – knowing they can email something like a PDF is reassuring. I guess I’d figured they were so behind the times that still had actual books for their dockets.
no they have every thing on computer. i like looking in the file when i can just so i don’t miss something, but when the file is in angelo, that’s the only choice.
would it be filed in the leroy jessop case or would it be a new action against the attorney?
PT said: As for the people who didn’t show up from the ranch that were on the state’s subpoena list. I’m not sure if they were ever served or not.
I’d wondered about why the prosecution handn’t put someone from the ranch on the stand. Not being able to serve them makes it a tad hard to get ’em to court.
On the other hand..if some were served, but refused to show, wouldn’t we have heard by now? Wouldn’t something have been said to the judge about subpoena’s being ignored?
i think those people can be held in contempt of court without it affecting leroy’s trial.
as much as merril and wendell were jetting around, you’d think they would have been able to serve one or both of them.
No dog, I’m standing up for the children who were harmed by the people involved in the hoax call. The suffering inflicted on these children is going unpunished and the same people are STILL in a postition of power to harm once again.
[2nd MODERATION WARNING – no personal attacks – ADMIN]
Marykay said this on March 20, 2010 at 2:40 PM
MaryKay, you cited the “people involved in the hoax call” again just now.
I expressed my interest in this new evidence you claimed last week about there being “people involved”. I am still waiting for your substantiation of this claim.
Who are these “people”? Names, please.
Either provide your proof or quit making bogus claims. We deal with facts and evidence on this blog, not PMS moments.
Your second sentence here is most profound and shows hope that you are “finally getting it”.
You said:
The suffering inflicted on these children is going unpunished and the same people are STILL in a postition of power to harm once again.
YES indeed these same people ARE still in a position of power to harm once again. Namely Warren Jeffs and his FLDS Priesthood buddies.
You’re starting to “get it” Marykay, just provide the proof and documentation for your other claim and you just might be back in the realm of reality!
Thank you, Marykay for at least finally getting PART of the picture.
There’s hope for you yet girl. Just give me the proof on the other allegations and we can maybe clear things up once and for all.
And I am standing up for all minorities. It’s a shame organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center doesn’t realize this case is going to be used by many hate groups to target minorities.
Marykay said this on March 20, 2010 at 4:27 PM
Marykay, have you read what the SPLC says about the FLDS being its own HATE group?
The SPLC doesn’t just call a cult a hate group unless they have substantial reasons, facts and evidence.
I know spring starts today, but what HAVE you been smoking?
I suppose Leroy’s said his goodbyes. I doubt he’s shed a tear for his victim/s.
Oh silly Huesos — Willie (not-the-spokesman-unlesss-under-oath) has already stated that there are NO VICTIMS.
I mean, if you can’t trust the word O’ Willie what is there left?
(shaking head at your absurd thinking) 😉
Since MK feels the need to stand up against haters and bigots, I would suggest that she have a conversation with Warren Jeffs, or maybe reconsider her advocacy for the racist FLDS group.
“Comments by the leader of a Utah-based polygamous church that blacks are the “seed of Cain” and “uncouth or rude and filthy” have landed his sect on a list of hate groups compiled by a civil rights organization.
In a listing to be released next week, the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints will join the Ku Klux Klan and numerous other groups identified as racist by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
“This is done strictly based on ideology,” said Mark Potok, the director of the SPLC’s Intelligence Project, which monitors hate groups and extremist activity in the United States.
The Montgomery, Ala., center describes a hate group as one with beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people, usually based on characteristics such as skin color or religion.
The FLDS has four listings for the places where it controls property – Hildale, Utah; Colorado City, Ariz.; Eldorado, Texas; and Mancos, Colo.
FLDS President Warren Jeffs landed his church on the list by his descriptions of blacks in tape recordings apparently made in the mid- to late-1990s. In them, he contends that blacks “are low in their habits, wild and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.”
In addition, Jeffs warns against interracial relationships, saying they could lead to the loss of priesthood blessings.
Potok said Jeffs “has a completely racist ideology.”
Cat
Apparently you haven’t read the rules
Here are some of the rules:
1 Imprison people who illegally impregnate young girls = bigotry, hatred or genocide
2. Actually call a whole class of people “low in their habits, wild and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence” = a wonderful religion
Actually along with our list of FLDS excuses we also need to make an FLDS rule book.
Aren’t FLDS rules too situational to write down? “Different rules for me and thee”
Minorities discriminate against other minorities ALL the time. Nothing new here. Look at Obama’s ministers speech about white people.
You would pretty legalize all disrimination if you allowed it against groups with some racist members.
MK: And I am standing up for all minorities. It’s a shame organizations like the Southern Poverty Law Center doesn’t realize this case is going to be used by many hate groups to target minorities.
………………….
Wow. Mary Kay, how many people of color live on the YFZ ranch? Think hard now.
You are beyond out of touch with reality if you believe the Southern Poverty Law Center would back a flaming RACIST like Warren Jeffs.
Warren had racist teachings but they were just teachings. The discrimination against FLDS members went way beyond words and resulted in horrific acts.
The people who hate FLDS members had(have) the ability to manipulate the FBI and Senators.
If Warren was trying to use a US Senator to start a task force to investigate crimes within the Jewish community – I would be equally outraged – and so would most people.
If Warren got State represenative to talk about rumors of black people moving in and then drafted laws which would give people with dark skin longer sentences – I wouldn’t agree with this either.
If someone called in a hoax call to an hispanic apartment complex in order to prove their were undocumented workers – I would be outraged.
MK
“And I am standing up for all minorities.”
BALONEY!
“Warren had racist teachings but they were just teachings.”
NAAAAAAAAAHHHHH Warren meant it, no blacks allowed. Guess what the demographics are at YFZ. The teens arent even allowed to listen to rock music, he says it was inspired by black musicians.
He has kicked out many boys for just that reason.
Warren is a flaming racist, a die hard child molester and he is in prison.
Write him a letter and ask him:
“Hows it workin for ya lately Warren?”
Holy cow – Scripps Regional Spelling Bee where the winner goes to the 2010 Scripps National Spelling Bee in Washington, DC and the kids are given words like “Patriarch” and “Polygamy” to spell.
WTF?
Is this in preparation for Mitt Romney to be our next president?
“Karis had left nearly all her competitors in the dust — until, more than 30 rounds deep into the competition, she mistakenly used an “i” instead of a “y” as the last letter of the word “polygamy.”
The audience gasped.”
http://www.gazette.net/stories/03172010/montsch224524_32552.php
Dang – Polygamy causes another casualty!
Guess that girl wasnt from Utah!
Utesfan,
I hear ya man.
There has been some lively debates about how the law is applied, or not applied, in other cases – for instance, Tony Alamo got 175 years by a Fed prosecution, but they took over only after the failure of the state to perform.
Now, it could well be argued that UT and AZ have more than their share of failures with these groups too, I kinda hate to think that the Feds feel satisfied since they caught the biggest fish in the pond, IE WSJ.
It’s abundantly clear the FLDS still plan on misbehaving, and with the latest 75 year sentence a fresh reminder of their bad behaviors, there is no repentance, no remorse, they still pledge allegiance to the imprisoned mob leader.
It may hinge also on what happens with the Utah SC, as they are involved now and assuredly there are legal politics at play.
I just hope that the SCOU does the right thing, but honestly they haven’t rung the bell like this last Texas Jury.
Warren Jeffs is a racist.
How many people of color did he hire?
None
How many people of color did he allow to live in any of his compounds?
None
How many people of color did he allow to have relationships or marriages with his followers ?
None.
The FLDS cult has systematically taught racism since its inception, and the fact that you act as an apologist for them is simply heinous.
You’re a hypocrite, nothing but an FLDS shill behind a proxy server in Chicago.
catwhisperer said this on March 21, 2010 at 11:56 AM to Marykay/40anddelusional/I_am_a_Bigot:
You’re a hypocrite, nothing but an FLDS shill behind a proxy server in Chicago.
******
Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner!
MK 42sumpthin
Catch that beam of light yet?
Warren had racist teachings but they were just teachings.
Marykay said this on March 21, 2010 at 10:30 AM
I think that defines a hate group, if an entire race is denigrated as a fundamental teaching. You also talk like it’s past tense, no it should properly be phrased, Warren HAS racist teachings.
I’m surprised we don’t see MK advocating for NAMBLA because they are being discriminated against by being criminally prosecuted. (NAMBLA = North American Man/Boy Love Association)
Malicia must adore Ahmadinehjad.
I’m guessing Leroy kept on smirking at his jury, thinking they knew how to read his ‘keep sweet’ game face, his way.
When I spent some time with baboons I learned not to smile, that is, show my teeth, not make direct eye contact, and dang, don’t pattypat the ground with my hands. It’s a cultural thing.
Well anyway 75 years from now those babies he made on his underaged victim will be real old people while Leroy will be fertilizer.
The kindest ‘punishment’ in animal training is the one you never need to made ever again. (That’s a negative reinforcement to you and me.)
YFZ will be a theme park.
Mr Toad and his wild Gardner bed ride!
Sounds fun to me!
Hey is spinazi the same as that John wotzit gemsmaker et al that’s been kicked off everywhere?
Then there is the appearance of Warren as “Homey the Clown”
huesos
I dont think so – spinazi trolls around the sltrib and is a shemale.
No, spinazi is his own special breed of crazy.
Homeys YFZ Clown Alphabet
“A” is for Arrested
“B” is for Bad Attitude from Being Arrested
“C” is for the Conspiracy that you were Arrested because you are a minority.
I’m happy that our bozos recognize that criminals are in the minority. It’s just not minority in the way civilized folk think.
I seen the word ‘genocide’ thrown around a lot.
‘Cide’ means killing in old Greek.
So, who has been killed in this FLDS mess?
Lawyer? I don’t think they killed anyone.
CPS? I don’t think they killed anyone either.
Judges? I don’t think so either….
Poor misunderstood word. Like decimate.
I wonder where these guys are being warehoused behind bars, wonder what was for supper. Are any together? Are they all spread out?
I think there’s one of those contract state prisons over at Colorado City. Texas, that is.
Back during the Revolution, family had to bring clothing, blankets and food to the prisoners Brits housed in their anchored ships.
Mudpuppy gets more absurd by the hour:
Abbott gave him two choices, guilty or not guilty, NO Plea bargains.
Abbott was pissed at the last plea bargain, and told barbie to knock it off.
Abbott knows that the sentences are going to be overturned, and he’s going through the motions so he can eventually play Pontius Pilate when the cases are tossed.
He was REALLY pissed at barbie for allowing the right to Appeal to be preserved.
Now, he has given the FLDS another Point of Appeal, the sentence itself which outrage’s public decency.
$20.00 says that now that he knows the good old boys are going to hang themselves in their hatred of the Mormons, he allows the next case to plea out.
Lehi Barlow is nothing more than Romeo and Juliet, and if the good old boys cut off his schmuck, it’s clear and convincing evidence that these are not trials, they are cross burnings.
——————————–
First off, all of the defendants have the right to negotiate a plea deal, but that isn’t part of the “answer them nothing” philosophy of the flds.
Abbott isn’t “pissed” at the judge or prosecutor in these cases, he thinks they are doing a good job and hopes they keep it up.
Finally, Lehi Barlow Jeffs is only a “romeo and Juliet” story if Romeo had 2 wives and was 11 years older than Juliet!!!
We all know his elevator doesn’t go all the way to the top.
Stuck on pesky Floor 13
I rarely read the SL Trib blog, but I had a few idle moments tonight.
This Pharisee guy actually posted “It’s not apples and origins.”
OMG. Did this half wit mean “apples and oranges” and he wrote “It’s not apples and origins.”?
“We all know his elevator doesn’t go all the way to the top.”
The damage long term alcohol abuse does to a brain is sad, isn’t it? (No, I don’t actually know that Bill is a long term, hard core alcoholic but I have to say his rage, incohernt ramblings and massive flights of fancy are very similar to that of an older, long term alcoholic family member of mine.)
Anon
LOL
Its funny to see the “Apples and Origins” of a meltdown.
The Polyga – lobby gig is going backwards at full speed!
( BTW Tony Alamo is a pesky “Apples and Origins” case – he is in a “different state” – well isn’t Warren too? )
Nice little honor for AZFamily – TV3’s Mike Watkiss:
3TV’s Mike Watkiss receives award from FBI
http://www.azfamily.com/video/featured-videos/3TVs-Mike-Watkiss-receives-award-from-FBI-88696297.html
An article about the Sheriff’s office in the area and the buildings for various county services – where to move after getting the boot from the college
http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2010/03/19/news/local/doc4ba31ac4d414b122521354.txt
So, maybe he can talk them into RICO charges.
I don’t know why Bill’s regulars can’t see that. I don’t like to jump to conclusions, either, but it’s getting pretty evident that he’s going downhill fast.
He’ll lose it, soon, offend a neighbor or worse, a neighbor’s child. All this is a smoke screen about his own bad acts.
“Incoherent” says it all. His latest posts made no sense at all.
He spams his own website with garbled garbage. Hope the FLDS are reading and keeping up to speed!
If they can understand Warren they should fit in over there!
Last night, a funny, cupcake sent spinazi & some others over to bill’s.
First Amendment / Julia posts
“Hazz: Enforcing polygamy laws has to do with enhancing and enforcing monogamy as the practiced form of civil or religious matrimony, every society has the right to order themselves by whatever fashion they so choose.
“”Why stop there? If you’re going to say what religious practices are allowed, why not say what religions are allowed–why not institute a state religion and ban Muslims and Mormons altogether? Texas can be a Protestant state, Louisiana a Catholic state, Utah a Mormon state, and Muslims and Jews can go back to where they came from. Enough with all this mixing of religions.””
==============
Why does Brooke even post this drivel, or that of the Pharisee?
Is she collecting inane posts?
Since y’all brought up similarities and the FBI let’s discuss those subjects.
Anytime someone brings up the horrors of the hoax call and raid, they talk about Warren doing the same. Same with discrimination against the FLDS members – Warren discriminated too.
I will agree anti-polygamy activists certainly follow the same type of behavior of some FLDS members. It’s almost like the same behavior but with just an opposite rationalization.
Which makes sense because many anti-polygamy activists were FLDS members. So they may have made the conscious decision to turn away from their religion, there subconscious way of dealing with problems is still the same.
The ex-FLDS members made the decision not to follow the FLDS religion. Fine but how do they deal with people they think they are wrong. They go back and do what they were taught. They go to the black and white thinking they were brought up with. They now think all FLDS members are bad and children should be reassigned.
I could write a paper on the similarities of polygamists and anti-polygamists. I think Dan became the new Warren Jeffs for ex-FLDS members.
The similarities end at one place – the FLDS never had the cooperation of the FBI. Huge, huge difference.
This makes the anti-polygamy activists far more dangerous than any FLDS members.
Yeah, Spinazi should spend some time with Bill, they are a match sealed in heaven.
Brooke’s reading a new book: “Texas Tough: The Rise of America’s Prison Empire”
http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/2010/03/texas-tough/
I think she’s just trying to get some life back into her webpage. As long as there is discourse, it’s all good. Personally, I would ban nosugrof – he repeats the exact same thing, it is rarely relevant, never logical, never references facts. Just how often do we need to hear that there are no victims?
It’s funny above “every society has the right to order themselves by whatever fashion they so choose”……um, we did. YOU LOST.
“, why not say what religions are allowed–why not institute a state religion and ban Muslims and Mormons altogether? “….because that actually WOULD be against the constitution, very specifically. It says you can’t establish a state religion. It does NOT say that you can create a religion just to get around laws you don’t like, statutory rape laws, for instance.
I think she should stop posting Pharisee’s attempts to advertise his own site, but other than that, his drivel really doesn’t bother me much any more. He’s so obviously out there on the edge he doesn’t need much rebuttal. He’s his own worst enemy. Give him five minutes and he’ll say slavery and marrying off 13 year old girls by assignment are all Biblical and thus perfectly ethical.
Mary 40 Kay
Thanks for another “Conspiracy” Theory!
Here is an alphabet lesson for you!
“C” is for Conspiracy!
Re Brooke’s book reading. Is there a logical fallacy in which you make a big pile of unrelated facts and create from them a totally unsubstantiated hypothesis. Texas has a lot of people in jail, therefor they are all bigots and haters, therefor this one jail sentence is inappropriate and would never have happened somewhere else.
I’ve been thinking more about the 75 year sentence, which at first seemed a bit high to me. But then I looked at some of the other ones, in which, they are saying things like “this teacher and her student met up to fourty times in her home”. How about lived together for about two years and had one child and conceived a second child and ended her schooling all before she reached the age of consent?!? Attempted to conceal the crime. The girl was learning disabled. And then there’s the question of how many “times” there reasonably were. If he does a straight one day per wife rotation, then that comes out to 182 nights with the child-bride!
I wonder who gave Adams that book. It sounds like a familar-ish theory, kinda billish or willyish.
I agree that Brooke’s red herring post points to her saying the sentence was too long.
Funny, she doesnt seem concerned when pligs in UT / AZ got wrist slaps.
Arizona has the toughest Sheriff in the nation, dealing with one of our nations toughest problems.
Sheriff Joe Arpaio.
I can just imagine Brooke getting her panties in a knot if Joe housed some FLDS down there with the illegal aliens.
Clearly there are many religious practices & biblical laws which are not acceptable. Slavery is certainly one of them. Some other unacceptable biblical laws from the Old Testament regard the mandate to execute adulterers, homosexuals, and witches, as well as killing disobedient & rebellious sons.
We have freedom of religion in this country – but it doesn’t mean that American society must view all religious practices as acceptable.
MK:
“…many anti-polygamy activists were FLDS members. So they may have made the conscious decision to turn away from their religion, there subconscious way of dealing with problems is still the same.
….
Fine but how do they deal with people they think they are wrong. They go back and do what they were taught. They go to the black and white thinking they were brought up with.”
You are 100% full of shite! You have no frickin’ idea how ex-FLDS think or on what basis they act. Of course you couldn’t/wouldn’t know… you are NOT ex-FLDS and least of all any kind of expert! Perhaps you are describing yourself in your own little circular world. Pity!
And write a paper? Go ahead and do that. I’ll predict it will be full of huge black holes through which all the rest of your weird, crazy rationale will be sucked.
(dangitalltohell! apologies and note to self: was never going to respond to this “person”… must go back to resolve of answering nothing)
ETexas most of what cupcake says she’s against best describes herself. I do not know how she does that.
East,
MK is a “pop psychologist” with no credentials of any kind. She has no idea what she is talking about.
She wants to write a paper?
She cannot even construct a cogent sentence.
Good luck to her in finding any journal that would publish it.
CW
“We have freedom of religion in this country – but it doesn’t mean that American society must view all religious practices as acceptable.”
Yeah, I tend to think Islamic “Sharia Law” wont survive the boat trip over here.
I agree Brooke’s latest post reads like nothing but a blatant attempt to stir up discussion on her blog. I think she has actively quashed discussion and information for a while now, so it might be interesting to see how this new experiment plays out, but I’m not playing along.
As for Texas, I think it’s a great place for free spirits, providing your idea of “freedom” doesn’t necessitate depriving others of theirs.
I hope not. Sad enough that England seems to be tolerating it. Crazy stuff.
I read a recent article about the Catholic Church’s “wall of silence” treatment of child molesters in the clergy, which I thought had a lot of parallels with the FLDS: http://www.slate.com/id/2248557/
Quotes from the article:
“The happiness and the health of countless children was systematically destroyed by men who could count on their clerical bosses to shield them from legal retribution and, it seems, even from moral condemnation.”
“But this dereliction on the part of the courts and police has mainly occurred in countries or provinces—Ireland, Massachusetts, Bavaria—where the church has undue influence on the bureaucracy.”
“Whether prosecuted or not, they stand condemned. But prosecution must follow, or else we admit that there are men and institutions that are above and beyond our laws.”
Ellie about free spirits. It’s my understanding that my Rights, freedom end >|< just right about where yours begins.
Amen. Yes, it seems very similar to me, also. The thought processes under which a mother reports abuse to the bishop instead of the police is also similar.
I learned that in Texas. If that’s a “Texas thing”, then I’ve adopted it as my own.
Brooke must be emailing Willie back, saying “WTF DUDE, why did you guys move out there with all the shenanigans you keep pulling? And build a Temple on top of it all?”
“Vermont seems like such a better place, they even have Polygamy lobbyists and sech up there!”
Anon
“East,
MK is a “pop psychologist” with no credentials of any kind. She has no idea what she is talking about.”
===============
From what I’ve read from her lately, I’m calling it “Pop Psycho”..
Ah shore like E.Texas 🙂
I think we alll do, Rattle!
“Vermont seems like such a better place, they even have Polygamy lobbyists and sech up there!”
Stamp said this on March 22, 2010 at 12:25 PM
I had to read that over, twice, I thought it said Pygmy.
That too
It needs a soapbox
Where my folks were oh 200 years back it’s cheese. Cheese box. Lotta cheese comes outta there.