General Discussion #83 – Will the Canadians Act

Continued from General Discussion #82

Word out of Canada is that the RCMP have turned their finding over to Prosecutors. The big question in my mind is “Will they finally arrest Spencer Blackmore for delivering his 12 year old daughter and 12 year old sister to Warren Jeffs so he could rape them”

So let’s bring back the video of Winston’s wives

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on July 16, 2013.

149 Responses to “General Discussion #83 – Will the Canadians Act”

  1. In listening to and watching the video I found so e I the resting facts:

    1. Winston at one time had 25 wives and now has 15. He’s lost 10 over the years. Zelpha pointed to a picture of 13 and said 8 were still there. That means that 5 of his first wives have left him. His first and 2nd wives are gone as his Ruth who testified against polygamy in the Referendum case. Not sure what number Ruth was.

    2. There was a sign on the wall about who was cooking Sunday dinner. I copied the list
    Mary Ann & Marsha
    Sharon & Leah
    Marjorie & Diana
    Vicki & Kathy Ann/ Jolynne & Millie
    Marlina, Elise & Caralina
    Zelpha, Cecelia, Robin

    Some of these aren’t wives, they are daughters-in-law. The first 6 are all wives but the next 4 aren’t. Marlins and Elise are but I’ve never heard of Caralina. Zelpha is but not Cecelia or Robin.

    3. Winston denied knowledge of trafficking young girls but he did it with 2 of his daughters. He might not call it trafficking, but that’s just what it is.

    4. His daughter Sally spoke about dating and she has since married her boyfriend and had a baby girl. Several of her sisters have also got married and had babies and one has had a baby but not gotten married. So his kids appear on the surface to be rejecting his lifestyle.

  2. For the sake of continuing discussion of Warren’s edict about impregnating the women of the FLDS, I am including the link to the Channel 2 news:

    http://www.kutv.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_5852.shtml

    If anyone has any hard evidence that they are going to start impregnating minors, PLEASE contact law enforcement. FWIW, I trust the AZ AG and deputies a lot more than I trust any LE in Utah.

  3. Federal Raid imminent :
    Evacuate immediately.
    Will.

  4. Will, what is your source and who needs to evacuate?

  5. Going further on the Winston video, after looking back at the documents that came out of the reference case, he could be in big trouble if there isn’t a statute of limitations on trafficking. He took 2 of his daughters with Jane across the border to be married to Americans in Utah. He himself married a 16 year old who is no longer in his stable and 3 of his sons with Jane also got married to under age girls across the border.

  6. Here’s the SLTrib’s take on the Warren Jeff pregnant edict:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/56603860-191/jeffs-rumors-community-rumor.html.csp

    Appears Trib is trying to find out where this story originated.

  7. Just my opinion, but if such an edict was given it is probably coming from Lyle. All of Warren’s communication is monitored by jail officials. If he had issued such an edict it would have raised red flags and been reported.

  8. Here’s a news story on fate of convicted polygamist Brian David Mitchell, appears he got a beating. From a British newspaper:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2366733/Elizabeth-Smarts-kidnapper-beaten-inmate-prison-emerges-stepdaughter-trying-belongings-theyre-sold-black-market.html

    Warren Jeffs should realize this is his fate if he ever gets in to the general population.

    Mitchell is now being kept away from GP like Jeffs is now.

  9. Here’s another version of the story:

    http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/158482/elizabeth_smarts_kidnapper_is_beaten

    This is your fate Warren Jeffs, it’s only a matter of time before they get to you.

  10. I just read in John Llewellyn’s book that some of Tom Green’s wives married him “as a means of escaping Colorado City.” Can anyone tell me the connection between Tom Green and the creek?

  11. I have a question, as a long time reader of this blog: Are the Margret Jessop mentioned in Carolyn’s book as an older daughter of Merril, and the Maggie Jessop who wrote the “Hello America” manifesto after the Texas raid the same person? If so, was Fonetta or Ruth (1st and 2nd wives of Merrill) her mother?

  12. Tom Green is an independent who was good friends with Ross Wesley LeBaron until LeBaron’s death. It is my understanding that Green grew up in Utah in the mainstream church and converted to fundamentalism much to his family’s dismay. Green has had at least 10 wives over the years. The Kunz women came from the AUB group, and I believe the Cooke, Beagley, and Johnson women came from the Crick. Ya gotta remember that these groups all used to be loosely affiliated and friendly.

  13. Third cousin: thanks. Your answer confirmed some of what I thought. But based on what I’m learning, I don’t understand how either Rulon or Warren would permit females to leave their community to marry an independent. Any ideas on how that happened?

  14. (1) remember that the groups used to be somewhat confederated and for the sake of the gene pool swapped girls back and forth. (2) If they left to flee the community I do not know about that and I kind of doubt it. There was a healthy stream back and forth in the day.

    The really disgusting (and not uncommon) thing is that the men (Tom Green and others) often married their female step children around 12 or so. it was often a quid pro quo thing and did not exacerbate their differences back then.

  15. Here’s an ABC news story on a “lost boy” who got out of the FLDS and is doing well on the outside.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/son-perdition-flds-escapee-builds-life-warren-jeffs/storynew?id=19700204

    Watch the videos at the website.

  16. Here’s more on a 20/20 show tonight on subject of lost boys/FLDS.

    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/07/i-escaped-my-life-airing-on-2020-friday-july-19-at-10pm/

    Should be interesting watching.

  17. Thanks again Third Cousin. It seems as though Tom Green’s wives would have reached “marring age” during the Rulon-to-Warren leadership years. Do you suppose that Rulon was more lax than his son in letting women leave to marry men in other groups?

    Also, am I understanding correctly that the implementation of the One Man Rule forever disbanded the Council of Friends?

  18. I’ve been trying to find information on WJ’s mother and the pickings are slim. Anyone have any info on her to offer?

  19. kjw:

    The information on the one man rule split is from the blog: flds101. I have copied a link to that blog which has much information on the flds and other polygamy groups. The Rick Ross link is to newspaper articles on the flds and other polygamy groups.

    http://flds101.blogspot.com/

    “In the early 1980s, LeRoy Johnson was the senior member of the priesthood council. “Uncle Roy,” influenced by others seeking power, outlined extreme actions that other members of the council didn’t want to follow. He explained that it was not a democracy, that he didn’t need their support since he held all the keys (authority from God). Marrion Hammon, second in seniority questioned this belief, and referenced a past revelation that stated that all members of the council held the same keys (authority). Johnson insisted that the source of the revelation was of the devil. A serious split resulted in the priesthood council. Marrion Hammon and Alma Timpson could not accept the doctrinal changes Johnson and others were introducing in this power struggle. A split eventually occurred and about 1/3 of the families followed after Hammon and Timpson. They became what was referred to as “the Second Ward.” The rest stayed loyal to Johnson. The Second Ward today is not part of the FLDS and is known as the Centennial Park group.”

    http://www.rickross.com/groups/polygamy.html

  20. Another question: Regarding Colo City/Hilldale, is one location more affluent than the other? Given the disparities in housing, finances, and overall lifestyle of the various members, I’m wondering if one location is better regarded than the other.

  21. Based on Wikipedia 2000 Census data
    The per capita income for the town was $5,293. Colorado City, AZ

    The per capita income for the city was $4,782.: Hildale City, Utah

  22. “I’ve been trying to find information on WJ’s mother and the pickings are slim. Anyone have any info on her to offer?”

    She gives long testimonies in Warren’s dictations.

  23. Mother Marilyn is WSJ’a mother.

  24. Periodically, I scan the Vancouver, BC papers to see if any news of the investigations shows up. It’s been slim pickin’s… Looks like it’ll be a few more months before we hear more outta Canada.

  25. Here’s an editorial attacking the inaction of Utah officials over the issue of the FLDS. And praising the actions of Texas officials as relates to the FLDS.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=5&cad=rja&ved=0CDcQqQIoADAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stgeorgeutah.com%2Fnews%2Farchive%2F2013%2F07%2F19%2Fon-the-edge-the-eyes-of-texas-saw-the-opportunity-to-protect-its-little-girls-while-utahs-remain-tightly-shut%2F&ei=7vLpUbXzIoS68AT64ICoCg&usg=AFQjCNE1hc-kULDk_YC2jMRWQ3GW_dEcqg&sig2=iC13TUZnIMiUA_AWJ_SiZg&bvm=bv.49478099,d.eWU

  26. Chemist: Thanks for the reported income info. I’ve read several brief references to housing disparities in the twin cities (i.e. multimillion dollar mansions vs. shabby mobile homes). Given the general propensity of like attracting like, the thought occurred to me that as with the “pure bloodline” hierarchical thinking, maybe housing was organized according to family status in the community. So that’s actually my question: are there “good” neighborhoods and/or housing accommodations and “bad” ones?

  27. Is there a town in this country that doesn’t have good neighborhoods and bad ones?

  28. Do a Google earth scan of the two cities.

  29. Here’s story on Arizona legislature again rejecting efforts to disband Colorado City Marshall’s office, the one under the control of the FLDS.

    http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/local_news/investigations/abc15-investigates-why-law-to-hold-colorado-city-marshals-accountable-fails-to-pass-again

    Flora Jessop had some strong words about this case.

  30. Here’s more on the video above from the SLTrib, they have an interesting write up;

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/56626380-185/videos-flds-parade-pioneer.html.csp

  31. Sorry, should have been:

  32. One of the women in this video, Allison “Allie” Steed escaped along with Lorin Holm’s girls, and got married: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55401520-78/helen-allie-flds-jeffs.html.csp

  33. Sorry – I forgot to remind everyone that Friday was the anniversary of the 1953 Raid on Short Creek.

    http://life.time.com/history/raid-on-a-polygamist-town-1953/#1

  34. Where are Allie and her sister now?

  35. Always looking for information on what the FLDS are doing at their two parcels in the Mancos Valley in SW Colorado. I posted pictures taken July 25 at https://www.facebook.com/FeVaFotos/media_set?set=a.10151672245132779.1073741845.579867778&type=3

    Looks like they’re putting a pipeline in on the upper property, have one of the two log cabins occupied by a young man and there was a flatbed trailer from Utah (license plate shown in one pic) parked there. On the lower property, three hoppers are standing up, there are stacks of plastic-wrapped building material and an area has been cleared … new construction planned to replace the 6-bedroom log house they tore down a couple of years ago?

  36. Mike Watkiss seems to think that the rumors about Warren Jeffs ordering all females in the group over the age of 12 to get pregnant.

    Watch the video, seems the Arizona sheriff and Gary Engels think it’s true also.

  37. Here’s the link, for some reason it didn’t post on Mike Watkiss TV report:

    http://www.azfamily.com/home/Warren-Jeffs-controls-followers-from-prison-217629451.html

  38. Very interesting how flds supposedly see themselves as citizens of the US with rights, when all they want to do is continue making sure every single child born into their cult doesn’t develop any respect for US laws, and also never realizes they have rights as US citizens, such as refusing forced underage marriage, refusing rape, and refusing forced underage slave labor. They have faced banishment from their families thousands of times if they question the strict and unrealistic behavior rules. They do not seem to care about their own rights and responsibilities as US citizens until they are faced with their own disregard for them.

  39. NICE Video.

    Totally changed my mind Mr. Richter, you guys are
    Victims. I still remember the day you attacked me in class.
    You really rung my bell. It was me who threw the firecrackers
    into your classroom after school. You should have seen yourself
    Jumpin around like you were being shocked. I forgive you 🙂 ..

    You and your people didnt do anything wrong .. except forget God.
    NONE of this nonsense is being believed because the truth of
    the matter is that you are the brain thats supporting a way of life
    that was always going to fail. A persons spiritual journey is theirs alone.
    Its not in any of the churches or groups. Its a one on one relationship with God. You followed a mentally Ill person out into the desert. Clearly in blindness. Stop crying about the so called injustices you have put yourself and your families through for no good reason. Start paying the rest of us back for the loss of property and sanctity that we the so called rejects jointly owned in a trust. You stood by and allowed us to be striped of our dignity and run out of town .. Pucker up and enjoy your public flogging .. good day sir

  40. It is my understanding that they have investigated the order coming from Warren and even interviewed the guards who are responsible for supervising his visitation and found nothing to suggest the he made such an order. At this point if it isn’t just a rumor I’m more inclined to believe that it came from Lyle.

  41. Whether the order came from Lyle or WSJ, it’s the same their like 2 peas in a pod,no difference. It’s sickening if the order is carried on through,which I think it will be,no matter who’s in charge,”you cant fix stupid” ….other-Anon

  42. Rebecca Musser has written a new book on the Warren Jeffs trial in San Angelo. The new book is called “The Witness Wore Red’

    Here’s the link from amazon on this book:

    http://www.amazon.com/Witness-Wore-Red-Brought-Polygamous/dp/1455527858/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1376099192&sr=1-1&keywords=rebecca+musser

    The Eldorado Success also has a write up on the book, nothing in the SLC papers.

  43. Hi long time no comment but this article sent to me by my son just made me
    think that things are always the same
    It is about mennonites in Bolivia

    http://www.vice.com/read/the-ghost-rapes-of-bolivia-000300-v20n8?Contentpage=-1

  44. Anybody heard anything about a rumor that at least 70 people have been booted/kicked out of Warren’s group & have moved to Fredonia,AZ????other-Anon

  45. I dunno about those peeps but I do know Warren was cleaved from the FLDS body and shunted into a concrete hole where upon he can cheep up some echos of his former self.

  46. UEP Board applications extended to September 30th.

  47. The applications deadline I mean.

  48. The SLT has an article about non payment of property taxes on the YFZ and the effect that has had on the local school system, etc.

  49. UEP Board hopefools …

    Another joke wont work. Who is your master?
    God or the state …

    Im going to annex Hildale into Arizona, form one City
    and standardize it to AZ regs. Then I am reinstating the Trust
    under one deed, paying off the taxes and having all trust
    properties inspected and brought to code. Then I will be buying
    blocks of advertizing to invite all inheritors back to their homes.
    Then After 90 days after that, I will introduce myself to them. I want
    the States to understand that they are standing on shaky legal
    ground. Your new Sheriff is Joe Arpaio. There will be Law here.
    Anyone caught looting stealing abusing or bullying others will
    get stuck in a Jail cell until their debts are paid in full and they
    adopt a new attitude.

    The days of the Outlaw mentality is officially over.
    Get your yards cleaned up.

  50. I watched Escape from Polygamy last night on TV and was dismayed at the lack of factual information portrayed. The prophet’s son has his shirt unbuttoned, showing a bare chest, all the girls’ and womens’ hair is flowing long and in many different styles, and so forth. Anyone else see it? I do appreciate the effort though; it’s movement in the right direction at least.
    While my current book is a work of fiction, I’m going to great lengths to incorporate as much factually-based, day-to-day information as possible for maximum impact. This is my first published book that is “fiction,” the other two (published) are non-fiction, research heavy tomes. So for those of you who take the time to answer my questions thoughtfully, I am extremely grateful. To create a book without holes in logic or inaccurate information, I need all the information I can get. So thanks.

  51. This may seem like a random quesion but does anyone know what Allen Steed (ex-husband-ish of Elissa Wall) is up to these days? Has he re-married? Does he still live at the same address in Hildale as he lived at in the plea from 2011 or does he live at the YFZ ranch?

  52. He has a youtube channel.

  53. His comments page is public as well.

    https://www.youtube.com/user/hiimallen/feed?activity_view=7

  54. B.C. polygamist omitted $1.7M in income tax filings

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/08/28/bc-polygamy-taxes-blackmore.html

  55. Unfortunately I don’t think that’s the right Allen. If you look through his comments briefly it looks like the person is the same as the person running the FLDS view blog. Although having that said the person with the youtube account is clearly using a more chavy language than on the blog.

  56. Has anyone heard of a pilot called “Breaking FLDS” a take off on “Breaking Amish”? I have seen one item about itt. It is no where on the web yet.
    Also, can anyone verify anything about the person running this blog:
    http://politicsrusprinciple.tumblr.com/

    They also have sent some information, but I do not know this person. Just need to know if he/she is trustworthy.

    A reminder of who I am. I write the blog Sister Wives Blog, trying to help expose the lies. Thank you. This group is always a big help.

  57. This blog has gone so empty. Where did everyone go? Did ya’ll get lifted up to heaven on the down low?

  58. BORING!!

  59. Yes, Mike, most of us got lifted up with Harold Camping. You still down there?

  60. I must have missed the “lifting up” because I am still here in the coils of mortality.

  61. Oh believe me, I try but I’m not worthy! 🙂 But chemist, I cannot help but teasingly ask if you perhaps landed in Kirtland or Nauvoo and I’m not where I think I am?

  62. So is Mormon heaven just like Mr. Roger Neighborhood? That’s what my Dad told me it was going to be like.

  63. Third Cousin: Don’t know if I landed or just stayed in IN, which is about equidistant from both Nauvoo and Kirtland.
    Does anyone know what is going on at the YFZ? Has it been abandoned by the flds? Is anyone maintaining the property?

  64. Geez louise somebody wants an internet refund?

    Anyway, the next season is just around the corner.

    Stay tuned after these messages.

    The next Episode: Utah judge Whaddoups tosses a coin three times to see if he can get away with decriminalizing child molestation errr polygamy.

  65. Chemist,

    As of April of this year, the bulk of the residents, including cows, chickens and children are gone.

    Only a few caretakers remained and that was 5 months ago.

    Aerial photos:

    http://www.eldoradoflds.us/04-11-2013-3/

  66. Thank you Stamp:

    A lot of construction and quarry equipment sitting idle. Unoccupied dwellings and an unused temple. What a waste of flds members time and money.
    Warren said he would accelerate underage marriage so the government would rage against them as a test of the people. Don’t think he expected to live the rest of his life in prison, but he brought it on by his actions and decrees.

  67. I went down to watch the Brown hearing and unfortunately I believe Waddoups will rule in favor of Turley’s arguments. The judge kind of raked the State over the coals.

  68. Can you elaborate, 3C?

  69. Yes please 3c, tell us more.

  70. Does anyone know what happened to Dan Wayman’s boys? I knew them years ago in Salt Lake.

  71. Brown Hearing in Federal Court for the District of Utah last January was a hearing of Plaintiffs’ Motion for Summary Judgment and State’s Cross Motion for Summary Judgment. Plaintiff’s attorney was well armed with precedent and constitutional legal materials. State’s attorney was very well meaning and his heart is in the right place but he did not come armed with materials similar to what were submitted in the Canadian test case, or legal precedents over and above the Edmunds act. There were no witnesses nor were there witness statements or letters to the Judge describing the perils of living polygamy. No expert testimony either. The Judge was quite harsh on the State’s attorney. A key argument for the State was that the anti bigamy statute is consistent with those in other states, however in March plaintiffs’ filed a Notice of New Authority arguing that several other states have taken action to lift such bans. Who knows. There has been no ruling. It will end up in the Supreme Court I would guess.

  72. The Utah Attorney General’s of late have been sidelined with much bigger problems, that of their own personal scandals.

    It has affected the moral of the entire State legal staff and to say they are “limping along” is generous.

    Basically, current AG John Swallow was allegedly caught red handed in a bribery scheme between Jeremy Johnson and a scheme to bribe Harry Reid.

    The state is hiring special counselors from up to 740 an hour with an estimated legal bill of 3 mil to boot Swallow (and for that money get him on the road to incarceration one would think)..

    Any erosion of plyg laws will likely face stiff appeals after this has sorted out, either that or Utah will become a laughing stock.

  73. Here’s hoping, Stamp.

  74. http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/america-tonight/2013/9/in-polygamy-countrywomanlongsfordifferentlife.html

  75. Jay. I would suggest hitting up Facebook and seeing if there is any of Dans boys you recognize.

  76. Whatever happened to that Saudi princess busted in Orange County CA for slavery?

  77. Rebecca Musser’s book, The Witness Wore Red, was just released. http://www.amazon.com/The-Witness-Wore-Red-Polygamous/dp/1455527858/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379034999&sr=8-1&keywords=the+witness+wore+red

  78. Thanks! I just got it from Amazon. Will start it tonight.

  79. Watch Rebecca Musser on Dateline tonight

  80. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3032600/#53005764

  81. Will a community center in Short Creek help anyone?

    http://www.kutv.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_6830.shtml

  82. I don’t see how a community center in the middle of town will help. The people going there will be afraid of being seen by “church security”.

  83. It might even end up like the library….broken into, things stolen, burned and sold off….and no witnesses.

  84. It might be of some benefit to people who decide they’ve had enough and want to leave. Maybe also to some of the kids who have been kicked out of their homes but not out of the community. I hear there are kids living in trailers and storage lockers because they aren’t worthy to live in their parents(s)’ home. And maybe it can provide some refuge for abuse victims. But I agree that vandalism might very well be a problem.

  85. Sure hope this center gets equipped with its own set of surveillance cameras, and hopefully it can be an unofficial hangout spot for any Sheriffs passing through.

  86. Oddly enough I think the community center would be a good idea. Vandalism would be a concern but I think the benefits would outweigh the risks. The centennial park group, the Cain beds group, the people uninvolved in any group, and the will Jessop group could find common ground. The warren group will treat it like a devils place.

  87. Cain Beds has a group?

  88. Decided to change my handle again. I went with this one because I was a plyg before it was cool.

    Last I knew there was a Cain beds group. A very small group. I’ve always heard thier leader was a woman too. If I had more time on my hands I could research further. Perhaps some one here knows better and can confirm it or let me know I’m retarded.

  89. I finished ”The Witness Wore Red” last night. And stayed up way to late to finish it. An excellent read!

  90. On another note….I caught a small snippet on Dr. Drew tonight about another religious cult in Wells, Tx., called the Church Of Wells. A very scary sounding group. From what I can tell, it’s all adults, but VERY controlled! Many families trying to find their [adult] children who have disappeared inside this group.

  91. Sad. Last night two Barlows and a Zitting from CCA were charged with drug manufacture, possession, delivery etc.

  92. Cane Beds actually a really old history.

  93. meant to say “has a really old history.

  94. Plyg Hipster,there’s also Ross LeBaron’s group in Cane Beds & his group’s quite small,he also has a lot of Mexican immigrants working for him,legal or not,IDK………other-Anon

  95. Stamp asked this on September 12, 2013 at 5:36 PM: Whatever happened to that Saudi princess busted in Orange County CA for slavery?

    Answer: from Mail Online…
    Saudi princess accused of human trafficking a ‘slave maid’ into her California home is cleared of all charges.
    Saudi princess Princess Meshael Alayban, 42, smiled broadly as she left the Santa Ana courtroom after the judge lifted her $5 million bond and returned her passports

  96. mc1199 – thanks for the recommendation on Rebecca Musser’s book and also the info on the cult in Wells, TX. I’ll have to look into that.

  97. mc

    Thx, I had a feeling the State Dept would step in to allow the Saudi’s their house slaves, all is back to normal.

  98. Here’s one: ran into a family of fundies at lunch today in Twin Falls, Idaho. The hair and everything. Prayed before they ate at the restaurant, we used to do that too.

  99. Was it the Blacks you ran into? Heard of a lot of them headed that way.

  100. I’m not sure plyg H. but a number of LeBarons came up this way too. But I don’t think they do the hair & outfits.

  101. Fundies in Twin Falls? One of my crazy brothers lives there. hahaha

  102. FLDS Reality Show:

    http://nypost.com/2013/09/24/tlc-tackling-controversial-flds/

  103. I won’t be watching it. Sounds to over the top dramatic for my blood.

  104. Hard to get more over-the-top dramatic than what Warren has already done.

  105. I dunno people on the internet seem to have no problem making that even more dramatic.

  106. Raping a 12-year-old in the “holy” temple in the presence of two other “wives,” huffing and puffing while giving her a “priesthood” blessing, making an audio recording and carrying it around in your car while on the run from the FBI (presumably so you can re-live the moment). Let’s see. What have people on the internet that is more dramatic than that. I don’t think anyone has topped that. You can’t make this stuff up.

  107. Heard that David Jeffs, warren’s older brother has died. Can anyone confirm this?

  108. I don’t think anyone blogging has said anything so dramatic as to equal the way entire families are torn permanently from some guy who doesn’t even know what he said or did to anger weirdo warren. Or the drama of some young boy who is just trying to be normal and get through his teen years, which are hard enough for any kid, and yes, it is often hard for any parent… who is not only told in no uncertain terms that he is definitely going to hell (for not being able to bear the hypocritical strictness and boredom of flds life as dictated by warren)–and then is rejected permanently by the only family he has, and tossed onto the mercy of a world he has been taught to fear and loathe every day since he was born. Or how about the drama of a girl forced into having babies with some guy old enough to be her grandfather..I’d say the flds is little but a drama factory, actually. And it seems to me they like it that way. Makes them feel holy, I guess. When in fact their practices, all the lawlessness, cruelty, and lies about their own lives, and their own country, have nothing to do with holiness. It’s dead works and filthy rags according to the Bible. There’s no love in most of what flds does. And love is what matters to God. Warren doesn’t know anything about love.

  109. David Jeffs has died according to former FLDS people who still live in the ‘crick.

  110. Wow. 66 years old is awfully young, same age as my mother.

  111. Is he still out or did he get back in?

  112. Cold turkey out

  113. He sure didn’t get back in her.

  114. Anyone have a handle on his great sin that caused him to get bounced?

    He said “Hi” to Willie?

  115. Last I knew David was part of the Will Jessop clan. He has indeed passed. People like him make me wish I could believe in a heaven. One of the most giving people I have ever met. His story is a sad one but he never let it get him down as far as I ever saw. He is one of my heros.

  116. as for calgal and mom…………….if there is a god he clearly put you 2 down here to give me the opportunity to facepalm.

  117. Here’s David Hunter Jeffs’ obituary:
    http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/deseretnews/obituary.aspx?n=david-hunter-jeffs&pid=167180012&fhid=4515#fbLoggedOut

  118. Back in the early 50s, as a very young child, David was seriously struck with polio. One leg was left short and very thin with little strength. Sibs often carried him piggy-back making sure he went along with any outdoor activities – hiking or exploring – with everyone else. His angel mother was good at tough love and made sure he wasn’t given special license because of his disability; he was required to participate in every possible way as the rest of his sibs in both farm chores and play. He was good at climbing trees – had extraordinary upper-arm strength. He could gallop on all fours keeping up rather easily especially indoors and around the yard. Later – along with marriages and many children – he took to a wheelchair. He was an inventor and an astute businessman. He gave his wealth to the FLDS leadership while his father was alive but he was among the first group Warren booted a little more than a year after his father’s death. The reason? Who knows, except that along with most of his male sibs, he knew too much about Warren’s history and manipulations. He lost his entire family; he was never invited back in although he has lived in the Creek for quite a few years, finally getting his home back (through Bruce Wisan) this past year. LIke Plyg Hipster, he’s one of my heroes. He will be missed.

  119. He is with his beloved father.

  120. Many honest condolences.

  121. I knew David Jeffs in SLC ,a very nice man……other-anon

  122. I’m not worried about your face-palming, “plyg hipster.” I have noticed that “hipsters” do not have too much influence on much of anything, for better or for worse. Best wishes to you as you try to mature. The world is not an easy place for any of us, and I am sure it has not been for you. Face-palm time? Go for it!

  123. ^^^What Mom said!

  124. Judge LIndberg considers 24 candidates for Board to redistribute property and lands.
    http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/24-candidates-for-polygamous-board-4863823.php

  125. Safety Net meetings will no longer be live fed / taped for public view.

  126. TC: Any explanation of why not?

  127. No explanation, but they stated that the meetings are all open for anyone to attend on-site and that there will be an open phone line for participation.

  128. It’s nearly 6 months since Willy Jessop acquired WSJ’s compund,,if Lyle/WSJ don’t pay auction price & 6% interest for the past 6 months it will revert to Willy free & clear,, Lyle/WSJ probably wont buy it back,Willy’s be on it,so in their minds he’s polluted it…….you can’t fix stupid,,LOL–other-Anon

  129. Just saw this today – from five days ago, Carlos Smith Holm Jr. in an Ask Me Anything thread on Reddit, “I am an ex-FLDS boy who was born in Warren Jeffs’ group…”

    http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1oajcf/i_am_an_exflds_boy_who_was_born_in_warren_jeffs/

    He’s receiving a great deal of support.

  130. Anon at 9:17 pm:
    Thank you for the link to Carlos Smith Holms blog. A sad but powerful story. Hope he does get a book going.

  131. Community Center opening in Short Creek.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57016774-78/center-community-holding-sltrib.html.csp

  132. Went down to the opening of HoH’s community Center. It’s an ambitious project, I’ll give you that. here’s the SLTrib article on it: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57016774-78/center-community-holding-sltrib.html.csp

    I doubt many, if any, of Warren’s FLDS will take advantage, but if some of the other people can get some use out of it, that’ll be good.

  133. Although I agree that “Warren’s FLDS” won’t take advantage, but it is a place where people can go and get help if they want to get out and don’t know how. Maybe some of those kids living in trailers and storage containers can go there and ask for help, or maybe there are other Ruby Jessops who would leave if they had a way to do it. I just hope that it doesn’t get burned down or otherwise vandalized.

  134. So what does the FLDS do for Halloween?

  135. FLDS doesn’t celebrate any holidays. I’m sure if you dig deep enough you can even find a morning class tape from Alta academy talking about the evil of holidays….especially Halloween.

  136. Although I think it is beautiful, and a fascinating amalgamation of cultures, I would imagine the FLDS find El Dia de los Muertos / All Souls Day an abomination. I will enjoy traveling to Texas tomorrow to see the incredibly adorned cemeteries. I’m not going for that reason, but I do always enjoy it in Mexico, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and many of my communities here in Idaho.

  137. So FLDS no longer celebrate Joseph Smith’s birthday like the AUB and many of the independents?

  138. I don’t remembet ever celebrating Joe Smith’s birthday. If we ever did it would be a fast or something like that. Thanksgiving is typically celebrated. I heard rumors that some if the will Jessop group plan on doing something for Christmas. I remember up north when uncle Rulon’s birthday was kind of celebrated. Creekers used to take pioneer day very serious as well as the 4th. The other holiday was a three day holiday called October fest. Now I have no idea what they celebrate.

  139. More info on FLDS surveillance today in the Trib, with more promised for Sunday:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/57068553-185/photos-shot-utah-flds.html.csp

  140. FLDS Surveillance of its own members:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/56998236-78/photos-flds-church-images.html.csp

  141. Traditionally, the LDS Church encourages (and participates to some degree in) the celebrations of Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, Independence Day, New Years Day and Halloween.
    Pioneer Day in UT, and some surrounding communities; particularly in SE ID.

    http://www.mormonbeliefs.com/mormon_holy_days_&_holidays.htm

  142. Mixing church and state in Short Creek:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57025876-78/church-flds-allred-jeffs.html.csp

  143. Would someone post the Allred/Barlow letters here for discussion please.

  144. Ask and ye shall receive. Continue your discussions in the new thread.

    https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2013/11/07/the-truth-starts-to-emerge/

  145. Please give me more details as to how exactly this works and if there are any costs involved. Please don’t have anyone call me, just send me an email reply. Thank you. Sarah.

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