General Discussion #81 – Ringing in 2013

Continued from General Discussion #80.

Carry-on!!!

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on December 25, 2012.

305 Responses to “General Discussion #81 – Ringing in 2013”

  1. Submitted by Third Cousin on 2012/12/25 at 11:58 PM
    If the Merry Wives is gone… and the Four Horsemen are riding, we really are done. Where will I eat in Short Creek. Did they get lifted up?

  2. Merry Wives is still posting their menu on their Facebook page…

  3. I just noticed that too. Maybe they just closed for a day or something.

    I’ll ask around.

  4. Let’s just say, the signs for the Merry Wive’s were gone. I didn’t stop and look in the windows or anything, but there was always a couple of signs out front. The Sinclair station is still open, but the cafe part appears to be vacant from the road.

  5. Lol. You people are funny. Merry Wives is still open.

  6. Good. Love the Merry Wives!

  7. Off Topic: wind gusts of up to 40mph. So far we have 12 inches of snow and it is still falling. Had thunder snow earlier today. The large malls and shopping centers are all closed. All non-essential city and state offices are closed. We are snowbound in Indiana.

  8. Wow, I’ve never even heard of having thunder snow.

  9. Good, I’m glad I’m wrong about the Merry Wive’s. You’d never know it was still open from the road, though. I might have stopped if it didn’t look vacant.

  10. We get thunder snow every once in a while. You hear thunder booms while it is snowing. We can get 2-4 inches of snow per hour during thunder snow.

  11. Anderson 360 had a segment on HIlldale/CC tonight. Claiming the closing of the grocery store was because the end of the world will happen by year end so no need for groceries.

  12. So new date for the end of the world is Dec 31?

  13. If you don’t get it right the first time, keep on trying.

  14. AC Cooper link: http://www.cnn.com/video/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter#/video/crime/2012/12/28/ac-tuchman-warren-jeffs-end-times.cnn

  15. Well it looks like there will be another GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT for the FLDS sheeple,WSJ’s at it again predicting the world will end on 12/31/12.If you read flds101.com WSJ says only a FALSE PROPHET predicts a certain date for the worlds end, nobody knows the hour or day, it will happen only when GOD says it does,according to the Savior..Karma has no deadline….other-Anon

  16. If I had $1 for every one of his wrong predictions, I’d probably have a nice little extra nest egg!

  17. I don’t think he predicted an exact date. The latest revelation that I read predicted that the end was near but no man knoweth the hour. I don’t really think there is anything new in this report–just what we already knew about his recent rantings.

  18. For PTSD, has anyone ever had Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing (EMDR) Therapy? I’ve done some research, but I’m not sure about it.

  19. TC, a friend of mine did it and found it very effective. That was probably 15 years ago and I haven’t talked to her about it for a long time.

  20. Does anyone know where “shaggy smith” lives? He is talking suicide on the trib blog here. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/55534286-191/sltrib-polygamy-2012-twitter.html.csp

  21. St George. He does that all the time.

  22. MC1199, don’t think WSJ hasn’t tried predicting/prophesying before,he has on 12/31/2011 he did & 12/31/1999 he told the sheeple to be ready to be lifted up,in the earlier proclamation he told them they would be lifted up 80 feet & the wicked would be burned up & the sheeple would go back to clean up world with no wicked people on it,,why that number? WHO KNOWS!! Now that’s the two times including the newest bullshit he’s proclaiming I know about,there may be other times he’s used this bullshit to get(extort) money from the sheeple…..”You can’t fix insanity”……….other-Anon

  23. Interesting Mike Watkiss documentary on subject of Warren Jeffs trial, around 25 minutes long,

  24. I thought Shaggy was a Holm, but it doesn’t matter, clearly needs help.

  25. Shaggy is a Holm. Awhile back he posted somewhere that he was going to use the name Smith because he “knew what his father was” or something like that.

  26. Thank you CG.

  27. Has anyone heard anything about possible movement of children from CC/Hildale? Just read this article. I’m surprised it this wasn’t mentioned in the AC 360 piece.

    Will FLDS Leave Towns On Utah/Arizona Border?
    By Ladd Egan
    (KUTV) Concerns over polygamous families being torn apart and a possible desertion of the fundamentalist sect’s towns on the Utah/Arizona border have one outreach group asking for law enforcement to be on the lookout.

    “We are very concerned because we are seeing that movement of children being separated from their parents,” said Tonia Tewell, executive director of Holding Out HELP, a non-profit group that helps those seeking to leave polygamy.

    Tewell traveled to Colorado City, Arizona and Hildale, Utah this past weekend to deliver food and supplies to residents now that the only grocery store in town is closed.

    “We were told there were three to four buses that they had in the shop that they were getting ready to put the children on the buses to escort them out of town,” Tewell said.

    http://www.kutv.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_3195.shtml

  28. Lol at the AC60 segment …” Sir what language is that? ”

    Good question!

    *starts sleuthing*

  29. Was that the Adamic language that used to be used during a portion of the Temple Endowment ceremony?

  30. Yeah, even the English are on the watch to see what bull Warren will try to pull, its about time peeps recognized that WARREN’s world ended four years ago and THEY need to start theirs.

    Got a phone call when a family member saw the AC CNN piece, told them no, the world was supposed to end Dec 23rd last I heard.

    Tsk tsk Warren is always a day late and a dollar short.

    Here is the Olde English Mail piece. Happy New Year!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2255093/Warren-Jeffs-followers-prepare-end-world-close-2012-experts-warn-proclamation-mean-sinister-sect-loyal-convicted-sex-offender.html

  31. OBTW it was Warren’s Daddy Rulon who claimed that 1999 was the date of the uplifting.

    Members took out loans, spent all their money, and really sucked up to Rulon because IIRC only 2000 were marked to go.

    I suppose part of that sucking up was showering him with money.

    He laughed all the way to the bank, after that trick he pulled on them.

    Quite the clue of how and why Warren manipulates them…. he’s had good training but he fails in the follow through.

  32. Rulon was already being controlled by Warren in 2000 from what I’ve heard.

    As for what language, I’ve heard that Sam Bateman (who is the idiot who was scratching the mic and doing the strange language) acts like that a lot. I’m sure it made his dad Deloy proud to see his son acting like a blithering idiot on national TV.

  33. Thanks for the help. I have a feeling if he was uttering some temple commandments, the church won’t be too pleased he let that slip to an outsider.

  34. It does not sound like anything ifrom an LDS temple ceremony.

  35. The flds now have until Friday to respond to the state of Texas effort to seize the yfz ranch
    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/55550392-185/texas-ranch-flds-sect.html.csp
    From the article:
    “Attorneys representing the sect now have until Friday to respond in writing to the allegations. The deadline is a one-week extension made possible by a two-page document filed Monday in Texas. Dan Gerson, who represents the polygamous sect, declined Monday to divulge what the FLDS response might be.rneys representing the sect now have until Friday to respond in writing to the allegations. The deadline is a one-week extension made possible by a two-page document filed Monday in Texas. Dan Gerson, who represents the polygamous sect, declined Monday to divulge what the FLDS response might be.”

  36. The original answer was due Dec 24, so it is really longer than a week and if they state really wanted to take the property they could have filed for a default judgment on Wednesday the 26th.

  37. Here’s more on the new FLDS lawyers, Jeth Jones:

    http://www.joneslawfirm.com/Attorneys/L-J-Jones-Ii.shtml

    And the other lawyer Dan Gerson:

    http://www.danbgerson.com/

    Interestingly enough Gerson has ties to Arizona.

  38. Here’s the link courtesy of the SLTrib on the court agreement:

  39. Chemist, hope you’re unburied by now (snow).

  40. Happy end of the world again everyone (CNN reporting on WSJ). Do you think WSJ and/or JHC goes by Eastern, Central, or Mountain Time?

  41. Maybe Hawaiian

  42. One way the FLDS could get out from under Warren is if they quit answering the phone when he called and stopped going to see him. They could let him think they were all lifted up and he was left behind.

  43. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/55555239-68/lawsuit-towns-court-department.html.csp

    Part of the DOJ lawsuit was dismissed. This is a very poorly written article that leaves a lot of questions. First of all, it says that the decision was written Nov. 29. Then it says that it comes on the heels of a setback in December, namely, the failure to move the suit to UT.

    So how could a November 29 ruling come on the heels of a December ruling?

    The article says that what was dismissed was a claim that the FLDS church denied access to non-members to the park and zoo. It says that policing alone does not amount to operating or managing a park or zoo. Does this mean that the park and zoo are private property? Does the FLDS church own the park and zoo, so that it can exclude people? So the cities didn’t do anything wrong by excluding people from the park and zoo because the cities didn’t operate or manage them?

    I hope someone will clarify.

  44. IIMO, the Deseret News article on the dismissal of part of the DOJ suit is better written than the SLT article.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765619142/Part-of-lawsuit-against-polygamous-towns-dismissed.html

  45. I didn’t think they would be able to prove excluding citizens from the park and zoo. The park is part of the trust and for a while they tried, but lately it’s been the exFLDS who have been there a lot.

  46. Interesting. Although the trust owns the property now, and non-FLDS are not excluded, that doesn’t mean that they were not excluded during the time that the trust was in the hands of the FLDS, but maybe the lawsuit doesn’t go back that far in time. But if the issue is that the park and zoo were the private property of the FLDS, and not open to the public, and all the police did was to eject trespassers, then the ruling makes sense. I can think of some ways around that the DOJ could possibly allege, but it looks like they have reserved the right to amend in the future if they want to. They probably have bigger fish to fry.

  47. I was just notified there will be a farewell tribute to Mark Shurtleff during tomorrow’s Safety Net meeting.

  48. One way the FLDS could get out from under Warren is if they quit answering the phone when he called and stopped going to see him. They could let him think they were all lifted up and he was left behind.
    Anonymous said this on January 1, 2013 at 12:17 PM
    ***********************************************************************

    LOL! Maybe even send him a fake newspaper stating that!

  49. Watergirl, that would solve a lot of people’s problems, even down at the penitentiary.

  50. Has anybody heard about the people sent to Grand Junction?

  51. I thought the world was going to end so I racked up my credit cards. Think I could Sue Warren for my credit card debt? lol

  52. OO, I’d jump in on that with ya on a class action, which would make it federal and perhaps more fun. We could take out newspaper ads like WSJ did. I may just hold him accountable for some of my psychological counseling bills. I can’t remember if you can sue dead people – Joseph Smith is responsible for much of my damages!

  53. Wife, where is the colony in Grand Junction?

  54. Eldorado Success Newspaper reports that the deadline for a response from the YFZ ranch officials passed without a response to the clerk’s office today.

  55. The SLT has some new polygamy articles including this one reporting that the Dept of Labor is investigating flds child labor practices. Specific reference is made to the pecan picking situation.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55571568-78/labor-department-flds-sltrib.html.csp
    “The U.S. Department of Labor says it has reached an agreement with companies using children from polygamous communities to pick pecans. But none of the sides are saying whether that means children from the Fundamentalist Church of Latter-Day Saints will no longer work on the farms. The announcement from the Labor Department on Friday only says farm managers have agreed “to take steps to prevent any future violations.”

  56. Everyone needs to obey the law, but frankly, if occasional pecan picking were the worst thing the FLDS did to children I wouldn’t get too upset about it.

  57. It’s also a safe bet it was free labor, as the women and children were probably NOT paid for any work they did. My guess is the money went to the church or the bishop, if standard practice prevailed. It makes it even more interesting that the company has been cited before for the same problem. They apparently have no problem using children as labor.

  58. I know child labor is not okay, but how many of us and our ancestors were raised on farms and ranches where school actually let out for the harvest?

  59. Here’s more from the SLTrib on hearing, appears that additional parties needed to be served, so state & FLDS lawyers agreed to delay hearing until 28 January 2013.

    Read Trib article;

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/55571997-185/attorneys-flds-friday-ranch.html.csp

  60. TC, to this day, I think, the state of Idaho lets school out in October for the “Harvest Vacation.” I’m not sure if they still call it that but they used to.

    I agree with MC that the children probably didn’t get paid, and that isn’t OK. It’s not like they are working on their family’s farm.

  61. I’m not sure where exactly, the colonynin grand junction is, only that many of the older people particularly ladies were sent there to “repent”…. I just wonder what has become of them.

  62. CG, We don’t let out school for the harvest in Ada or Canyon counties anymore, but perhaps many of our more rural counties still do. You from here? Don’t have to answer that of course… But I was born & raised here, so naturally curious.

  63. Thanks wife, unfortunately I have no news for you. Hope someone here does.

  64. New Utah AG plans to “tolerate” polygamy.
    http://www.onenewsnow.com/legal-courts/2013/01/03/utah%E2%80%99s-new-attorney-general-will-tolerate-polygamy

  65. TC I am not from Idaho, but my parents were and I have dozens of relatives and in-laws who still live there. I lived there myself for a couple of years in the late sixties. Vacationed there much as a child and an adult. Have relatives there who are school teachers and within the last decade they still had harvest vacation, though I don’t think many of the students there actually work in the harvest.

  66. Here’s the latest from the SLTrib on what should be done with UEP. The Trib has three different suggestions on how to deal with the UEP?FLDS affair. IMO option one listed in article is best.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/55571637-185/cons-pros-colorado-options.html.csp

  67. Front page of my Idaho Statesman ran this Dallas Morning News article this morning on my distant LeBaron cousins in Chihuahua, Mexico. Gun control really is an intricate problem.
    http://www.dallasnews.com/news/nationworld/mexico/20121230-brothers-in-tiny-mexican-town-push-for-changes-to-nations-strict-gun-control-laws.ece

  68. The labor used to pick pecans – whether they contracted out a “company” or hire pickers themselves, someone has to submit tax records on the labor force right?

  69. Someone “has to” in the sense that there are labor laws and tax laws involved that have requirements, but it wouldn’t surprise me all that much if they just did this “under the table.” The Salt Lake Tribune reported that they reached some kind of settlement with the pecan owners over this, but I’m not so sure that it’s really all cut-and-dried wrapped up yet.

  70. The point I was trying to make and failed to make in a bad way- The The U.S. Department of Labor should have been and should begin investigating the hiring practices at all of the FLDS owned businesses. The pecans is on the tip of the iceburg.

  71. I think you are right, WG. What I hope is that the pecan tip of the iceberg will interest the DoL in other FLDS labor practices.

  72. Don’t forget, family operations have different regulations than others for child labor. If you own a family restaurant, your 12 year old can bus tables or sweep the floor.

  73. Even in family operations, there are limitations. Like total number of hours, no dangerous work like heavy equipment, can’t conflict with schooling, etc. I think it varies by state.

  74. Someone please tell me I didn’t sound like Shaggy when I used to post on the Trib site. If I did then you all have my deepest apologies.

  75. The whole end of the year thing was rather anti-climactic. Looks like business as usual around here, minus the grocery store. Which fact really reeks!

  76. OverlordOfftopic: I’m sure you realize Shaggy is speaking from pain, rejection, fear, and more pain. A lot of us who have left, and have left behind loved ones, go through this. Some more publicly than others. Don’t ever be embarassed for the price you’ve paid to become who you are now: articulate, confident, and forward moving. Keep up the good work, and be sure to always hold a hand out for those following your superb example. Hugs.

  77. Well said Wise Woman!!

  78. Shaggy needs to bring back his youtube channel. He had some pure gold on their, like Warrens rant on the Care Bears.

  79. Ha ha. I doubt I’m a good example for anyone. I get what you mean by speaking through pain but I did my time and now can speak through experience. I occasionally will church out Trib and this blog. Every time I see one of shaggy’s comments I become that drill Sargent therapist on thr geico commercial.

  80. OO, you always have had an ability to laugh at yourself that is charming. I feel sorry for Shaggy, but he’s doing such a good job of being sorry for himself that he doesn’t really need my help with it.

  81. Flattery will get you nowhere. I just believe that kids like shagg need a swift kick in the pants. I don’t feel sorry for him. The only thing keeping shaggy from loving his life is shaggy. I do agree that what happens to kids like us was terrible. Was was was was was. The abilty to move past things without this self justification BS is what sepperates the men from the boys.

    And charming? Ok flattery worked a little bit. But I don’t think I’ve ever been described as charming.

  82. Man, it’s amazing, the difference between the sermons of the various Mormon sects. Warren takes ever sermon from the pre existence to the end of times, citing every scriptural verse possible from not only the standard works, but also the Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, the Joseph Smith translation of the Bible, and the Journal of discourses.
    Compare that to this Community of Christ sermon, which grabs one verse from the new testament and spends the rest of the time piling on anecdote after anecdote in order to help his congregation grasp a concept that isn’t all that hard to grasp in the first place. (The sermon starts at about 23:30)…

  83. “Arizona is placing foster children in the polygamist enclave of Colorado City, raising concerns about their future and state Child Protective Services’ judgment in finding homes for abused and neglected kids.

    Mohave County Supervisor Buster Johnson identified one foster parent as Dan Wayman….”

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/politics/articles/20130111arizona-foster-children-polygamist-colorado-city.html

  84. Ontario makes a polygamy arrest: http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Ontario+police+lays+polygamy+charge+while+dithers/7815588/story.html

    The guy they arrested would be a good rival for Warren Jeffs–likes young girls and group sex.

  85. Anon 12:35 Ha. Well, that’s one way to freshen up the bloodlines.

  86. I think Warren cursed southern Utah with cold weather. I guess I shouldn’t have been so half hearted lol.

  87. Headed to SLC from Idaho tomorrow morning for a committee meeting and the Kody Brown federal summary judgment hearing. If folks want live updates I’ll try to provide them – I am not deprived of my phone in local or federal courts here but I have to check for the federal district of Utah. Thank god we can turn our phone ringers “off” now – I remember being at a hearing 3 years ago when a federal judge lit into an FBI agent for it ringing and confiscated his phone. Almost sent him out of the room even though he was on the prosecution team. Learned a lot that day. Yikes.

  88. Please provide updates as best you can and drive carefully!!

  89. Will do, PT!

  90. My local library gave me a bound copy of “Jesus Christ: A Message to All Nations” that they received in the mail.

  91. My library cataloged theirs and put it on the shelf for anyone to check out. There are about 4 volumes of Warren’s rants.

  92. Scottish guidelines on Forced Marriage. Why can’t we have similar guidelines in the US? http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/366110/0124639.pdf

  93. I’ll be standing with activist Kristyn Decker and several others as she is interviewed on the SLC federal court steps regarding her opposition to polygamy, then we’ll proceed inside to the Brown hearing. Keep you posted.

  94. We have to check our phones & leave them with the Marshall Service.

  95. SLTrib article on The Browns: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55643460-78/utah-browns-hearing-attorney.html.csp

  96. Here’s the trib write-up from an hour ago:
    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55643460-78/waddoups-polygamy-utah-jensen.html.csp

  97. Here is my 2 cents on the Brown lawsuit.

    I’m not sure how hard the Utah contingent is fighting it. If polygamy is declared unconstitutional by this Judge then it goes a long way toward solving the Utah AG’s problem of looking the other way while people commit a felony crime.

  98. Fox 13 Ben Winslow weighs in:
    http://fox13now.com/2013/01/17/judge-contemplates-decriminalizing-polygamy-sister-wives/

  99. RFM board is reporting that Flora Jessop’s 22 year old sister with 6 children is out

  100. Yes–“Cactus Jim” at rfm reports that Ruby Jessop is out with her 6 children who, when he spoke with her, were “huddled around the TV.” Here is the link: http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,766428

  101. Sam Brower posted some pictures of it on Facebook. It happened during Lyle’s birthday party where he commanded all of the faithful to the storehouse to pay him respect. When the rescuers showed up Lyle disappeared for fear they were looking for him.

    Great job Flora, Sam and all who helped free Ruby and her kids.

  102. An appalling and horrible thing has happened in the land:
    The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests rule on their own authority;
    And My people love it so!
    But what will you do at the end of it?

  103. What will I do at the end of it? Celebrate each family that is re-united, and take joy in watching the love and smiles blossom. Flora waited and prayed 11 years, and her prayers were answered. Each re-united family is a victory over the darkness of Warren Jeffs and his ilk. Wahoo!

  104. Exactly Wise Woman!!

  105. Excellent news on that family reunion!

  106. Going back a little, I’ve seen the instability that Shaggy exhibits happen over and over again. And a lot like OO, I’ve become desensitized to it. These kids have got to buck up and work with what they’ve got, pity parties aren’t very fun. I find myself drifting further and further from the “community” that is ex-FLDS people.

  107. I find that healthy yehaaa. It means you are moving on and growing and not doing the “poor pitiful me” routine.

  108. I am so glad for you Yehaa.

    Everyone’s path will be different and take it’s own time. I had a friend who after leaving an abusive husband took over 6 years to come back to being the woman I used to know. Many times each year I visited with her during her deep depression and thought to myself, “MAN, just buck up already – that is what I would do! ” But, I didn’t say anything and just supported her where she was at. Finally over 6 years later she called me and told me that she was finally back to her old self and was amazed herself that it took so long.

    growing up in this lifestyle has to be hard to change to a new mindset. My friend had to come back to her old self. These guys have to become someone else. So it is OK if Shaggy or others take longer. Everyone has to take their own path. Ok too if you move on without them.

  109. It is you who have grown up, married and had children in that lifestyle who need to give yourself 20 years to work through and shake free… or free enough… of the controlling effects. I know that sounds harsh, but all I can say is ‘trust me; I know first-hand.’ And I didn’t have it as bad as the generations after me because I never had to live under and through the tyrannical Warren years.

    We’ll never be free of ALL the negatives, but we’ll be able to recognize and celebrate the positives and reposition the negatives. Both go into what we choose to make of our independent, free-thinking selves going forward.

    There are two words that took the longest to incorporate into my own life: “Let go.” Those two words will mean different things to different people.

  110. http://www.newstimes.com/news/article/Ariz-AG-to-discuss-FLDS-woman-s-effort-to-leave-4214013.php

    AZ AG is going to have a news conference about Ruby Jessop’s escape from the FLDS with her children.

  111. Here’s Mike Watkiss interview of both Flora & Ruby Jessop.

    http://www.azfamily.com/home/Exclusive-Interview-with-woman-who-escaped-forced-polygamous-marriage-187955271.html

    Click on video link for complete interview. Sounds like the just might have the goods on the rest of the FLDS leadership not yet in prison. Bet ole Willie the Thug is nervous about what Ruby has to say about the FLDS. And Lyle Jeffs is even shaking in his boots.

  112. Here’s the write up from the Washington Post:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/ariz-attorney-general-horne-says-criminal-probe-under-way-into-warren-jeffs-polygamous-sect/2013/01/22/8bad39e2-64fd-11e2-889b-f23c246aa446_story.html

    Wonder what President Obama will think about this article when he reads in the morning?

  113. From what I heard Lyle was shaking in his boots the day it went down. He was having a command performance at the storehouse in honor of his birthday and suddenly left the party when the cops showed up.

  114. http://www.azfamily.com/video/?id=187979321&ref=rcvidmod&sec=528732

    Two interviews back to back.

  115. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765620851/Arizona-AG-probing-police-in-FLDS-towns.html

    The Deseret News story of Ruby’s escape

  116. It’s awesome to see Flora and Ruby together.

    Even more so to see Ruby’s children.

    May they all have lives full of joy and love.

  117. Fox on whether twin town marshals prevent women’s departure from short creek:
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/23/ariz-investigating-if-local-marshals-prevent-women-from-fleeing-warren-jeffs/

  118. As always, the Mancos FLDS seems to fly under the radar, yet there are Warrenites still there and they are still pumping money into those two 60-acre properties. For pics from a visit last Saturday afternoon, go to https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151335915802779.453242.579867778&type=3
    These are mostly of the activity on the upper parcel, which lay dormant for many years.

    We walked around the lower property in late July and were shocked to see that the 4,000 sq. ft., two-story log house with loft and daylight basement, alleged to contain six bedrooms and six baths, had completely disappeared! No trace of it or the raised bed gardens below it or the shed and solar array that powered it … totally dismantled and removed. This is the one they worked day and night to build after acquiring the property in 1993 (I think, just before the acquisition of the YFZ lans) and at which I had several times photographed a late model BMW SUV registered to Rosa Allread. At the same visit, we noticed a lot of activity on the upper property, including fixing up the two cabins, adding a trailer and shed, a batch plant set-up and a large area under a low roof behind a concealing berm.

    This set of pictures shows the building behind the berm is about 40 x 40, with an associated propane tank and semi-trailer. One shot shows a man exiting a vehicle at one of the log cabins, which are obviously being lived in. Also, the hoppers that were on their sides by the batch plant are now upright in the midst of the building complex on the lower property.

    I have never been able to quite figure out how these two parcels figure into the FLDS asset picture. Anyone who can illuminate what may be going on with the Mancos FLDS is encouraged to post their information.

  119. I’m hoping Ruby tells us the name or names of the marshalls who held her against her will. There have been allegations for years regarding the marshalls, but nothing ever comes of it beyond general statements about police brutality committed by these people. We need details….who, what, when, and where.

  120. http://www.lvrj.com/news/arizona-prosecutors-take-aim-at-church-marshal-in-colorado-city-188146041.html

    Another story about Ruby’s escape.

  121. This may be a dumb question but I don’t follow plyg hype or news hardly at all.
    What’s so special about ruby that they wouldn’t let her leave? They kick out families in troves but this one family is a big deal. Is one of her kids the second coming of Jesus or something?

  122. Overlord Offtopic: In response to your question. From personal experience, I’ve found that the FLDS, in high profile cases (like mine with my nephews and nieces), and Flora (with her sister), that they work extremely hard to groom them to support their side, and also sequester them from contact with folks like us on the outside. They don’t like to “lose” to “us”, and they don’t want inside information about what was happening on the inside during our outside efforts to become public.

  123. Ok so she has some top secret information. Hell I was one of the people that made things dissapear and no one gave a crap when I left.

  124. Honestly I’m not sure what was so special about Ruby and/or Elissa that they fought so hard to keep them, but they did. Vanessa Rohbock is another who comes to mind as being fought to keep in.

  125. PT, honestly, I’m not sure either. I was one of the very first (many years before Carolyn) to get away with my children, and I know of myriad others who were able to stay under the radar after their escapes. For very personal and protective reasons, I was the one who didn’t want my escape made public. The same was true of many, many others.

    It’s not that most often extreme effort wasn’t brought to bear from within the FLDS ranks to get me – and those others – back into the barn. It’s usually a matter of whether someone makes a big public ruckus after the filly has bolted out of the barn, so to speak.

    Sorry, OO… sadly, they care far more about their fillies than they do their colts. Yes?

    Obviously Flora is the one who created the big ruckus over Ruby. Otherwise, you’d probably never have heard anything about her either. The other well-known escapees have their public ruckus stories too. If I’d wanted, I could have made mine into titillating and salacious worldwide headlines. Some of those others could have too.

  126. CNN just advertised that someone who just escaped FLDS – assume Rudy will be on Anderson Copper on Monday night.

  127. http://www.thespectrum.com/article/20130126/NEWS01/301260004/Court-extends-custody-order-FLDS-battle&ct=ga&cad=CAcQARgBIAAoATAAOABA6KeSiAVIAVAAWABiBWVuLVVT&cd=difW_-0xG9s&usg=AFQjCNGW-FeVADeFEu9AHp9VmEYIdxqO2Q?nclick_check=1

    A story about Lorin Holm in his custody battle for his children.

  128. Wasn’t Lynette Sullivan held by her own parents?

  129. Lynette Warner and yes she was held and drugged by her parents.

  130. Overland Offtopic, you ask very good questions about Ruby. Personally, I believe she simply got tired of all the new restrictions. One example is that Warren/Lyle are borrowing a page out of Michell Obama’s anti-obesity do-gooder campaign and imposing all kinds of diet restrictions similair to what the feds, local govts. and schools are implenting in the name of “The children”. While it is certaintly plausible that other members were urging her to stay if for no other reason than the PR consequences, even the most avid Lyle/Warren bootlicker has a right to free speech. Also, The Warranites are kicking out families in droves for lack of loyalty implies that someone wanting to leave is a clear and obvious sign they are “not worthy”. She decided to bail, got custodoy of her kids and the allegedly evil marshalls deliverd the kiddies to her.
    I wouldn’t be suprised that at this juncture, the Warrenites who are currently in good standing are now in the minority in the twin towns.

  131. Thanks PT, I did mean Lynette Warner not Sullivan. Slip of the tongue/fingers.

  132. Please tell me it is not true that WSJ has ruled that children eat only beans.

  133. anawnimus – I wouldn’t be surprised if the non-UO Warrenites outnumbered the UO Warrenites. Not sure how many “apostates” there are in and around the towns. There are several families that have left the towns completely.

    As for the allegedly evil marshalls, they didn’t deliver the children until they were faced with the Mohave County Sheriff deputy. It certainly wasn’t out of their willingness to follow a court order.

  134. CNN’s video interview with Ruby: http://cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2013/01/29/ac-tuchman-jessop-escape-from-flds-church.cnn.html

  135. Ok so she has some top secret information. Hell I was one of the people that made things dissapear and no one gave a crap when I left.

    Overlord Offtopic said this on January 25, 2013 at 8:45 PM

    ——————————————————————————————

    I’m not sure who you are Overlord Offtopic, but some of us did give a crap about you when you left and we still give a crap about you. I personally wish that you would have stayed here in town, but that is all water under the bridge now.

    You say in your post that you are one of the ones that made things disappear while you were here. Now that you have been out of warren’s church for awhile; Would you consider talking to law enforcement about some “disappearing things” that you know about?

    I’m sure that immunity could be granted in exchange for the first hand knowledge that you have. I could put you in touch with several government agencies who would be very interested in talking to you.

    To start with, you may want to call the Mohave County Prosecutor, Matt Smith, at 928-753-0719. You could talk to him about immunity, keeping your name anonymous if need be etc..

    I’m sure that he would talk to you personally.

    If you would like talk to people at the State or Federal level, just let me know on this site and I’ll get you names and numbers of people you can call that will be very interested in talking to you.

  136. Here’s the CNN report from last night on Ruby Jessop:

  137. Try again the link didn’t appear, so again CNN’s report:

    http://cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2013/01/29/ac-tuchman-jessop-escape-from-flds-church.cnn

  138. To the women who left before the high profile of Carolyn, etc. Maybe if you would have spoken out loud and clear, a lot of heart break could have been avoided.

  139. I was still there when allot of speaking out was happening. The direct result was an even greater loss of freedom for the rest of us. Everytime some one opened their mouth about the plygs the people still there suffered for it. Back in the day people could leave with their heads intact. Now nearly everyone that leave has been so oppressed as a direct result of “awareness” that they barely contain enough personality to fill a thimble. Things are worse than they ever been now that there is all this attention not better.

  140. The building goes on the truck. Thats all they tell you. I dindnt mean to imply I had information. Even if I had information I would not share. The things I am responsible for are more important to me than anything our anyone with anything to do with the flds.

    And if you don’t know who I am its kind of silly to claim you gave a crap about me don’t ya think?

  141. http://www.utcourts.gov/opinions/supopin/UEPT1305012913.pdf

    Willie and company being denied intervention was upheld by the Supreme Court. Another battle won.

  142. http://www.thespectrum.com/article/20130129/NEWS01/301290006/Ex-FLDS-member-wins-right-occupy-land-he-bought-after-ouster

    More on the intervention story.

  143. And in other news, the State of Texas has pulled the medical license of Lloyd h. Barlow, the infamous FLDS doctor from YFZ. Seems his license was canceled on 11-30-2012, with the decision becoming final on 12-30-2012.

    http://reg.tmb.state.tx.us/OnLineVerif/Phys_ReportVerif.asp?ID_NUM=512321&Type=LP&LicensePermit=M0988

  144. Lindsay W at the SLT has a short article about the 2 court cases. It seems like all the recent cases have gone against the flds leaders. Might be a message there.

  145. A Texan, I can’t make your link pull up.

  146. Excellent news about Ruby! And of course the YFZ.

    Now comes Jeremy Johnson, ex lost boys helper / come kicker outer / who has claimed, and provided proof, that fresh Utah AG John Swallow and veteran Senator Harry Reid were the conduits for an attempt to quash Federal prosecution of JJ.

    Now, while Harry is only dirtied by his long time friend taking receipt of funds from JJ, it brought an epipheny to me of why the Feds never pulled the trigger on MANN act and RICO charges.

    Remember the “Polygamy Summit” Reid was threatening to oversee?

    Perhaps it was just a shakedown. Perhaps not, but in light of his accumulating a lot of wealth since taking office, its food for thought on this story rich buffet.

    Sltrib is running an excellent series of articles, and have posted the money trail leading to Harry’s attorney.

    Seen here:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/55679923-79/rawle-swallow-johnson-works.html.csp

    “Money trail in John Swallow saga leads to friend of Sen. Harry Reid
    …… Scandal » …… Disclosures show where funds from indicted Utah ‘businessman’ ended up.”

  147. BTW it gave me tingles watching Ruby on the CNN interview…. And the success seen in her face, Flora’s smiles, Sam Brower, and Gary.

    WOW this just made my day!

  148. Heard that all of Truman and Louis Barlows sons (30+ men) have been ex’d in recent months and that some are ‘repenting’ ie trying to get in good with the FLDS leadership, and some aren’t.

  149. On Lloyd Hammon Barlow’s TX BOM license but if it does not work, simply google the TX BOM and search his name. Looks to me like he simple let it lapse rather than having it taken from him for cause. I heard he’s in Eastern Idaho now, but I really don’t know.

    http://reg.tmb.state.tx.us/OnLineVerif/Phys_ReportVerif.asp?ID_NUM=512321&Type=LP&LicensePermit=M0988

  150. Short article by Lindsay Whitehurst about the Cookes trials in getting hooked up for water in CC. This has been going on for years and is totally unacceptable.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/55733387-185/cooke-colorado-com-filed.html.csp

  151. @Stamp– I was out of the country when I heard about Ruby. I was soo happy, I cheered……a bit tooo loudly, it seems. People turned to look at me like I was a tad nutz. But, I was still very happy!

  152. Ah, travelling again mc!?

    Where to this time? (best you got out, it was chilly there for a while – at least more than usual?)

    Spent a week out in Arizona and it got up to 82 for a high and 42 for a high with rain all in a week.

  153. Just a week’s cruise to Puerto Vallarta/Cabo and back. I try to follow the thread, as best I can, when not on home soil.

  154. What’s with Jim Dalrymple and Nate Carisle writing all the polygamy stories for the trib this year? Is Lindsay Whitehurst off the beat? If so, why do they keep tricking Chemist and others by putting her picture at the top of the articles? She’s obviously not on vacation, since she has written scores of non-polygamy related articles during that time period. Was she Brooke Adamsed? Too bad, if so. I liked her.

  155. MC – been some time since I have been down there to both those places – flew out of TJ though, what a trip.

    Cabo is my favorite, my BF on a separate trip really got nailed by jellyfish.

    Anon…. I think they pass the “Polygamy Beat” around like one of Warren’s confused musical chair damsels.

    I agree that Lindsay was an excellent and refreshing reporter on the issue.

    Perhaps too much truth though, and mebbe she lost contact with the sources out there who were miffed they kept getting outed?!?

  156. I have one Big Question : which of the Barlow family was Ruby married to? There’s 2 branches of Barlow’s here, John Y Barlow’s or Ianthus W Barlow’s descendants ? other-Anon

  157. wernt Ianthus and john brothers?

  158. Haven’s father is Dell Barlow son of John Y. and Esther Johnson( a daughter of Leroy S. Johnson). Haven’s mother is Ladonna Jessop daughter of Edson Jessop. Haven and William Timpson (Jessop) are cousins.

  159. Were John Y and Ianthus W Barlow unrelated? So there are two separate Barlow families? Wow. I recall reading somewhere that the Jessops and Barlows had been completely zipped together in the early days to the point where it was impossible to descend from one family without the other. Is that not the case?

  160. Yes; Ianthus and John Y. were brothers.
    .
    .
    —————

    To the women who left before the high profile of Carolyn, etc. Maybe if you would have spoken out loud and clear, a lot of heart break could have been avoided.

    Anonymous said this on January 29, 2013 at 12:04 PM

    It would take a very long article to explain why there was nothing I personally could have done that would have made one GOOD iota of difference. Nothing!

    However, Overlord Offtopic effectively made one of the most salient points when he said:
    Everytime some one opened their mouth about the plygs the people still there suffered for it.

    ~Thanks OO

    But the most important reason was the extremes I had to go to, to keep my young children protected from the long arm of the FLDS — staying in hiding for many years — as a blood atonement order had been issued against me.

  161. Barlows and Jessops (as well as Johnsons) were highly intermarried early on in FLDS history: 30s – 50s. Nowadays those two branches are so intermingled with all the other families… well… there’s just no way to effectively untangle all the vines from those branches. I gave up trying long ago.

    I have great respect for the genealogists on this forum who have been able to untangle so much.

  162. Ianthus and John were full brothers, from Israel and Hannah.

    Glad ya never got blood atoned, ET.

  163. I’m glad too ET!!

    Not only did the Barlows and Jessops intermarry numerous times, then when Warren started breaking up families he forced the children to take new last names which further added to the confusion. Haven is a Barlow by birth, but after his Barlow father was exed his mother was remarried to Uncle Fred and Haven became a Jessop.

    Ruby’s dad was a brother to Uncle Fred and when her father was exed her mother was married to Uncle Fred so for a time Haven and Ruby were “siblings”. Step siblings to most, but according to Warren’s wacky teaching the step part was left off.

  164. The re-assigning makes my genealogical brain spin.

  165. A video about the Cooke’s

  166. Ron Cook would have made one Hell of an enforcer. Why on Earth would they run off an NFL sized man? He could have tied Willie Jessop in a knot. His injury happened after he left, so it couldn’t have been related to that.

  167. http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2013/jan/31/notices-to-flds-ongoing/

    I guess the idiots think crushing them makes the liens go away.

  168. “Ianthus and John were full brothers, from Israel and Hannah”
    Thank you third cousin, Why do I know this and it seems FLDS dont? That seems odd to me. Its their heritage not mine.

  169. Did they crush them in an effort to collect insurance money?

  170. I think crushing to collect insurance would be tough, I think it is more that they think if they crush them they won’t have to pay for them anymore. If there were Escalades involved they could possibly have come from the Cadillac house in San Angelo. I’m going to ask around and see.

  171. I don’t know about insurance money… maybe? would that even work? but it might be because they don’t want the “wicked people” to get hands on their property, so they’re doing what Brigham Young threatened to do back in the days of early SLC.

  172. An article by Lindsay Whitehurst, on her blog, under her picture and above her byline. It explains her lack of activity on polygamy articles in the recent past and in the future.

    “After a couple of great years covering polygamy in Utah, I’ve accepted a new beat covering higher education for The Tribune. Though I’m looking forward to the new beat (Controversy over the Dixie State name and ESL program plagiarism anyone?) I’m going to really miss covering polygamy in Utah. Taking over for me is Jim Dalrymple II, who joined us from the Provo Herald, assisted by editor Nate Carlisle, who’s been involved with the beat for years.” Lindsay Whitehurst.

    Hate to see her leave the polygamy beat.

  173. You know, when we were all at the federal Brown hearing 2 weeks ago, I don’t think I saw Lindsay. The other regulars were there except Watkiss and i think he was covering a murder trial in another location at the same time.

  174. Rachel, I don’t know why I know, but it actually is MY heritage like it or not! 🙂

  175. My suspicions were confirmed about Lindsay Whitehurst, eh? In the immortal words of Trace Adkins:

    “I hate to see her go, but I love to watch her leave.”

    Here’s wishing her the best of luck.

  176. I really don’t think you can get “demoted” from the polygamy beat. So on to bigger and better things?

  177. I think it is a promotion for Lindsay.

  178. PT: I agree with you that is a promotion for Lindsay and gets her into more of a mainstream beat than polygamy. She had a more balanced approach that Brooke Adams did, hope her replacement continues that. Don’t know much about Lindsay’s background other than she went to college at Miami University of Ohio, Know nothing about Jim Dalrymple’s background.

  179. Question for Third cousin…..back in the fifties when the split happened, with Allred taking some and Johnson taking some. Was Joesph Lyman Jessop, the only Jessop that followed Allred?

  180. http://www.custercountynews.com/cms/news/story-672252.html

    Seems the Pringle Compound might be running into problems.

  181. I’ll check Rachel.

  182. IRT the crushing of vehicles, that is an unprecedented move by them I think…

    Most likely the notes are now impossible to cover and they refuse to give them up to the bank or be humiliated by repossessions…

    Now that said I think its a felony to destroy property with a lien on it in that fashion…. problem for the FLDS is, they know who signed off on the notes.

    From PT’s link:

    “Shleicher County Justice of the Peace Judge James Doyle said Thursday that although he hasn’t flown over the YFZ Ranch recently, residents of Eldorado have seen cars from the ranch being crushed in a couple of locations around the county.

    “They destroyed around 50 nice cars. Ford pickups, Escalades,” he said. “They’ve got a lien on them and are smashing them as they are, tires and everything.”

    Other than the many crushed cars, Doyle said, he has not seen any unusual activity around the ranch.

    Few sect members have been seen around the city.”

  183. That is so opposite from being nonconfrontive and nonviolent to destroy the vehicles. Its like “If I cant have her, nobody can.” Is this a foreshadowing of horrible trajedy ahead?

  184. The whole thing is like watching nature unfold. All we need now is George Page to narrate.

    it is quite simply escalation. It I in mankinds nature to take a bad thing and make it worse. All I can do is sit here and laugh. The people that meddle and “help” baffled at the new found hostility when they ate as much to blame as the FLDS. Life is cause and effect. What did every one expect that they would go against mankins very nature and not get more aggressive? You will tell me I’m full of crap but you would be doing the same thing if you were them.

  185. The crushing of good automobiles sounds like a form of bleeding the beast (gentile car dealers or lien holders) as in: I can’t or don’t want to keep the payments up, but you cannot reposses it. I cannot be found anyplace, moved to SD, CO Short Creek etc. Kind of thumbing their nose at the lein holders and dealers.

    Not a good way to influence people and enhance your reputation for honest dealings..

  186. Wonder who’s credit they used to get the car loans and who’s credit is now toast. You would have to show work or something to get a loan.

  187. Stamp, surely you didn’t mean to characterize an Escalade as a Ford. It’s a Cadillac and that makes a big difference. I drive a Ford truck and wouldn’t be caught dead in an Escalade. Hee hee.

  188. watergirl asked:
    Wonder who’s credit they used to get the car loans … Good question! Maybe one of their fake front businesses, now defunct, cuz Warren said to close it and move it…? Or some poor sucker who said, ‘Yes master, I’ll buy these for you’ [in a zombie-robot voice] and got ^%$#@!

  189. Maybe these cars where filled with the spirit of the devil to such a degree they could no longer be dedicated.

  190. Yeah, like the red Escalade?

  191. The CC AZ fire chief got off pretty easy:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55764070-78/barlow-case-fire-guilty.html.csp

  192. My thinking too, OO… defiled vehicles… beyond re-dedication… subject them to vehicular atonement. Or is that vehicular man-slaughter.

  193. It’s blood-a-truck slaughter.

  194. LOL 3C…

    Actually it’s stupid.

  195. Blood atonment for cars is by crushing them??

  196. Hopefully the lien holders will file charges.

  197. Collecting any damages would be next to impossible, I’m sure!

  198. Ummm well they might get a Piece of the Rock errrr YFZ, anybody interested in a slightly used Temple?

  199. I can’t believe Barlow got a slap on the wrist. If Darger doesn’t get much more then you have to seriously question why not lie, steal and cheat in Utah.

  200. Well watergirl, have you seen the trouble the new Utah AG is in?

    Then the answer is, yes, why not! Until things change they remain the same – oh well at least for the FLDS, things have changed, at least in Texas, so much for that dream.

  201. Oh I gotta add, I wonder why Warren didnt see that coming, being a Prophffffft and all….

  202. Gotta add #2:

    At least it was the end of the world for all those Caddies and work trucks.

    Guess they thought smashing them would keep the repo men from calling.

    When they smash their cell phones, we know they will really be serious.

  203. Tax problems for the Twin Towns: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/55771770-185/property-taxes-flds-trust.html.csp

  204. Looked it up, it appears that the destruction of that liened fleet of vehicles is a felony,

    The probable interstate aspect raises Federal issues too, but so far they seem shy to pull the trigger on any of this nonsense.

    After seeing the fiasco about Jeremy Johnson attempting to bribe Senator Reid (seen on the sltrib) to halt the Federal prosecution of him, one suspects that a similar move was made in favor of the FLDS.

    That said, Texas hasnt been shy about slapping them about, and this is what Texas law says about destroying property held by a lien:

    ===========================

    Texas Penal Code
    § 32.33 Hindering secured creditors

    ===========================

    (a) For purposes of this section:

    (1) “Remove” means transport, without the effective consent of the secured party, from the state in which the property was located when the security interest or lien attached.

    (2) “Security interest” means an interest in personal property or fixtures that secures payment or performance of an obligation.

    (b) A person who has signed a security agreement creating a security interest in property or a mortgage or deed of trust creating a lien on property commits an offense if, with intent to hinder enforcement of that interest or lien, he destroys, removes, conceals, encumbers, or otherwise harms or reduces the value of the property.

    (c) For purposes of this section, a person is presumed to have intended to hinder enforcement of the security interest or lien if, when any part of the debt secured by the security interest or lien was due, he failed:

    (1) to pay the part then due; and

    (2) if the secured party had made demand, to deliver possession of the secured property to the secured party.

    (d) An offense under Subsection (b) is a:

    (4) state jail felony if the value of the property destroyed, removed, concealed, encumbered, or otherwise harmed or reduced in value is $1,500 or more but less than $20,000;

    (5) felony of the third degree if the value of the property destroyed, removed, concealed, encumbered, or otherwise harmed or reduced in value is $20,000 or more but less than $100,000;

  205. Okay, but if you owned them outright, it’s tragic/wrong but not criminal. Right?

  206. It was Arizona that only slapped Jake Barlow’s wrist, not Utah.

  207. All the Trust properties need to be secured for the inheritors that have been robbed of their standings and belongings. TO LONG….

    I am amazed daily here in CCA as I observe homes being constantly vandalized. If you want a window to stay intact here you had better board it up.
    They are looting the stores slowly and at night. The Hardware store is being emptied. There is less and less real property in Colorado City. There seems to be no one left here but a handful of bewildered rejects.
    Its time for Federal action here before there is nothing but ash to reward the generations.

    There is an underground movement in the form of the Willies. They are going house to house quietly to invite everyone to join them. They are another version of the virus that needs to leave here. Hunker down they say … Let make some appearances of compliance and maybe this will all go away? God is with us …. blah blah blah. Makes me sick. Several months ago they were all looting the place themselves.

    Lets wrap this up and put the nightmare to rest.
    Suggestions?

  208. Right 3C, if it was your property outright with no liens then you can destroy it if you want. Just don’t go filing an insurance claim for it after you crush it.

  209. Everybody go straight to mormon hair poof and get yerselves a load of Christopher Walken in wig amongst the yfz gals. It is a truly fabulous hoot, I guarantee.

  210. Here is the information for how to contact the Justice Department: http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/June/12-crt-787.html

    Call them.

  211. Amen to what 2/6/13 at 5:01 pm had to say. They hit the nail right on the head. Let’s shut the Trust down and distrubute it according to what you put in.

  212. That would be impossible if you counted time as a contribution. I myself have been involved in multiple trades in many many houses. Not that I want anything out there. Problem with living out there is all those damn plygs. Lol

  213. Judge Benson’s lawsuit against the state of Utah dismissed. Inevitable, but still another loss by the flds in the UEP issue.
    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/55790271-185/court-state-flds-benson.html.csp
    “In his ruling issued Thursday, Benson dismissed a lawsuit against the state of Utah and various officials. Benson’s ruling is a response to a Nov. 5 ruling in the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver”

  214. http://www.myeldorado.net/index.php/feature-news/2329-yfz-crew-crush-vehicles.html

    Eldorado Success is reporting that they are crushing cars, trucks and lawn mowers and then putting them in sea containers to be hauled away.

  215. The Trust has Beneficiaries.

    It belongs to the kids it was intended to keep out of the slavery of the world
    * You know what I mean if you pay a mortgage.

    The original thought and the literal reason for a ” Trust ” was this: To pass forward the work of Loving generations of Fathers and Mothers to their children. This would provide a safe place for Families to thrive in T I M E that has been ” Paid in full ” so to speak. An Oasis that shows the world a ” Model ” for successful living and prudent stewardship. A Haven.

    Why were their wishes ignored? Why have their children been robbed and abused, neglected, misrepresented and run out?

    Because just like they said : ” If you fail to HONOR the trust among yourselves ..No TRUST will be able to exist ”

    Grown men and women allowing a church to separate and divide them.
    Willingly discarding their own common sense and their divine connection to their father in heaven for some outrageous fairy tale.

    Makes me sick that something so noble and great in intent … has ended
    with pallet fences and shabby inbreds that feed like parasites on each other.

  216. Hey if they stood those crushed vehicles on their sides they could have steel fences and not those cheesy pallet fences.

  217. 3C, have you been able to find out if Joesph Lyman Jessop was the only Jessop to follow Allred at the time of the split in the 50’s

  218. Responding to Anon from 2/7 @ 11:05pm:

    I understand your anguish, but isn’t one of the lessons of this whole debacle that good intentions are never enough? The Trust was connected to a system that required (male) children to be “run out”, mathematically-speaking. A system that allowed the church to call the shots, including separating and dividing as it saw fit. In the days of (mostly) benevolent despots (pre one-man-rule), I know there were some pretty idyllic times, but it was a house of cards.

    There will always be a certain (thankfully low) percentage of sociopaths in any society, but a system that allows an individual a path to unchecked power is a ticking time bomb. Sociopaths are attracted to power and sooner or later your despot won’t be so benevolent. I truly hope the Trust can benefit some of the many victims, but I pray its done in a way that is as resistant as possible to a new despot grabbing control of things. Have enough people learned a lesson to change the dynamic forever? I’m afraid of what the answer probably is.

  219. @ HFalls

    It is remarkable to me that 2013 is the 60th anniversary of the raid. Vera Johnson Black said of the experience ” Most faith promoting event of my life” I often wonder if it really was. It seems to me that any woman that is forced at gunpoint to give up her children would say that it was devastating.
    The two year child she was breastfeeding ( Wilford ) never regained his composure and has spent his life in an institution. I shudder to think about the nightmares being experienced by the kids who were hit in Texas. They may look physically fine, but underneath, I don’t believe they will ever feel safe again. Faith promoting?

    As a child in CCA, I felt safe until I was introduced to church. I sat there with my mouth open, wondering how I had landed in such a place. I informed dad that I wouldn’t be attending again, and I was read the riot act. His position was that membership to his family included church. After battling for years, I decided that option was OK, and I left his family for good.

    The spirit in their church was fearful with a light sprinkling of we are the best people on the earth, and its everybody else that needs to worry.
    They were conjuring in the 60s and 70s a leader that would come and set the house of God in order. The skeezy moves that Warren Jeff s pulled to obtain the position rival the slaughter of Marcus Aurelius by his son. Any sane individual would have had him arrested then. So much done in the dark ways and back rooms. Deals were made and the trust was dismantled piece by piece. Sixty plus individual names on a Trust, reduced to one. The people who knew Warren Jeff’s as a child tell me that he was already on his way to fit the bill. Never engaging in sporting activities and he always had his head in Church history books. Over the years he had come to the conclusion the he was the ONE. It was the perfect marriage . People who didn’t question and one who didn’t allow question.

    Meanwhile, where is Vera?

  220. I think she passed away. But i’m not 100% sure. All info I get from out there is second or third hand

  221. As far as I’m aware, she’s living with her daughter Lillian. I haven’t heard that she passed away though.

  222. Anonymous, you speak of being “introduced to church.” Don’t they start you out at church as babies? At what point were you “introduced”? I am an outsider trying to understand the culture better.

  223. It sounds to me like the family of anonymous at 6:43pm may have been converts to the flds church.

  224. Way back when there were some “converts”. Not recently as far as I know.

  225. I appreciate the post by Anonymous on February 9, 2013 at 6:43 PM. But I have the same question as CalGal.

    Born and raised FLDS myself – therefore in my experience – something doesn’t ring true-blue-FLDS in the description of growing up in CCA, unless chemist is right about conversion. However, such a conversion would have had to occur before the late ’60s — well before the one-man-rule was instituted in the late 70’s which, upon its execution, split the congregation in the early ’80s.

    No converts have been allowed since then. If conversion was the case for the family of Anonymous 6:43 prior to Warren’s debut and initial takeover in the mid-’70s, then the post does make sense. A time frame for 6:43’s childhood years would be clarifying.

  226. I had an idea about the car crushing thing. Would it be possible to sell these crushed cars to scrap. It would be Pennies to the dollar but it would be hard cash and less traceable

  227. But according to several sources they still owe thousands on most of the vehicles and that isn’t going to go away because they are crushed.

  228. Considering the news of the voluntary stepping down of the Catholic Church’s leader, Pope Benedict, and how it was an unselfish act of humility to resign, the contrast is undeniable with the FLDS leader Jeffs. He could have resigned and encouraged his followers towards truth and obeying the law. Instead it appears he leads them to their own destruction.

  229. Warren Jeffs is more like Bashar al-Assad of Syria.

    They use the slogan “al-Assad or we burn the country”…

    Of which they are doing a good job, with deaths approaching 70,000 officially but probably more like 250,000.

  230. I don’t think think they care what they owe. Worst case scenario they get thrown in prison. If I was still a plyg I don’t think I would care. With the current crackdown and everything going on it would be like Ron white says “hit something hard I don’t want to limp away from this” this group is quickly going to figure out they have nothing to lose. I just hope it doesn’t escalate to murder. It is within the realm of possibility and in a way I wouldn’t blame them.

  231. OO: I think you are right. They have been buffeted so much in recent years that they hardly know or care which way is up. IMO: warren and his henchmen have lead them to this situation. Warren once said he would increase underage marriages so the government would rage against them. It was to be a test of who would sustain the PH in the face of adversity. He did what he said he would, the government(s) did rage against them and many of them did leave. The rest may think they have passed the test and that is the most important thing to them, not prison, fines, etc. Just being on the “right” side.

  232. IMO. Both sides are to blame. Long term things would have been better to just leave them alone. We helped screw the pooch for everyone there and every child born there for the next few generations. Us stupid humans always think we are right and never fully think about the cosiquences of our actions. The plyg thing is not going away. We are making bad and making it worse in the name of justice. Go us. Can’t wait to see what the next generation of flds kick outs are like.

  233. Rachel – I’m sorry I still have not responded to your question – it’s been a helluva week around here. But I haven’t forgotten you.

  234. I was born in 66 in Hildale Utah. There was a community of people here who loved each other. There was evidence here and there of hostility. One instance is the man who called himself ES. He showed up mid 70’s out of who knows where. A transient with shabby clothes and a beard who loved the people and community. Somehow he was perceived as a threat to the overly zealous town fathers, So they found it necessary to beat him. As a child, I was fed my opinions. ES was the anti Christ they said. I heard accounts of his eating dirt they fed him and other acts of brutality. My thoughts were ” what if it were Christ in disguise ?”. No No of course not they said. Its a man with a devil inside him. Raise your hand if you remember ES. He disappeared. That was the first murder of spirit here. A precedent was set, and it started to consume the men in the community. The stories we all accepted as truth went like this( Church ) : The gadianton robbers once lived in the hills around, and they watch us. I slept under the window next to the wall in my tiny bedroom so they couldn’t see me. They don’t come out in the day so I assumed it would be at night. I remember clearly the night I woke up seized in terror, feeling someone standing outside my window. It was a man in shabby clothing with a large black beard. I have always been able to see things that others could not. No amount of comforting from mom was enough. ” Your seeing things ” she would say ” Go back to bed “. I could get sleep under the window , so I did for years.

  235. OO

    Utah leaves them alone… Texas wont stand for child molesters from out of town trotting in and setting up shop.

    So lets be clear on one thing…. Warren brought this rain down on his head, and all those people went along for the ride.

    Next time he proclaims he “Aint the Prophet and Never was the Prophet” maybe they will listen.

    In the meantime, prison, yeah.

  236. http://www.search.txcourts.gov/Case.aspx?cn=03-11-00039-CR

    Mandate has been issued. The Keith Dutson appeal has been dismissed for want of prosecution

  237. I was born in ’78, but I remembers Ess. Some of the people of C.C. should be ashamed at how they treated him. But, there are also good accounts. Roger Williams took him in and fed him and treated him well. This is the same Roger Williams that the FLDS drove out of his home and talked one of his wives and her children into leaving him.

    Isn’t it funny how that happens? They drove out the good people.

  238. Yes anon 1:09. It’s ironic that a group of people claiming to be good started on their downhill slide when they started to actually drive the good people out of the community…….in the 80’s.

  239. Ah Texas pride at its finest. What has happened had happened no going back now. Any plan isn’t always the right one. Some problems require hammers and some require razor blades. Texas only has hammers. In the end mark my words this”problem” will be worse for it.

  240. Yeah I know they chased me out. Lol

  241. Im personally inviting all members of the trust back home. I need help staffing the new city’s positions. Most of the structures wont meet standard uniform building codes so you will see lots of red tags. Anyone who loves the red fertile soil ..clean water and the fabulous sunsets here are missed. This place will be cleaned up and turned into a mecca of sustainable living. Lots of new infrastructure will located here to support families. The coming crisis in the world is all about corruption. Food Water and secure shelter will become the standard as the towers of illusion crumble. Hand in hand we will create a place of freedom and cleanliness. Everything your doing and buying now will dissapear before your eyes as the agendas of the few are realized. Open your eyes and hearts kids.. the time is Now.

  242. Anonymous said this on February 12, 2013 at 7:41 PM

    Raise your hand if you remember ES.

    ——–

    I remember Es. It was the mid eighties when he was here in town.

    I unintentionally scared him, and when I could have stopped, I let it go on for longer than I should have, even increased the fright a little, thinking I was being funny.

    I’m sure it wasn’t very funny to him and for that, I am truly sorry.

    Es was never in any danger from me, but after what he had suffered from this people, that I didn’t know about, he wouldn’t have known that.

    If I was in his shoes, and had gone through what he had, I suppose I would have been afraid as well. I thought about it later that day and felt bad about what I had done. Enough so that I still remember about when it occured.

    I had heard that he was naked under that robe he wore, and had flashed a young local girl. I had also heard that he had been putting pornograpfic material in peoples newspaper drops. I also heard he wanted to start a nudest colony in the BLM mountains north of town.

    I’m positive now that it was all total B.S.. He had probably just put innocent flyers in the boxes….maybe even nuth’in at all.

    Does anyone know what really became of him? I don’t believe the story I heard about his demise.

  243. Yes anon 1:09. It’s ironic that a group of people claiming to be good started on their downhill slide when they started to actually drive the good people out of the community…….in the 80′s.

    Anonymous said this on February 13, 2013 at 1:30 PM

    ———-

    The more I find out about our people, the more ashamed I am to have been one of them. They were driving good people out of the community long before the eighties..What we did to the C-Park folks in the eighties was a continuation of earlier, similar incidents, just on a much larger scale.

  244. Would I disappear if I ran through town in a bright red fat-suit?

  245. Centenniel Park people are opening a new grocery store in CC, AZ. I saw ithe article on the SLT polygamy blog.Quote below from the blog article.

    “A new grocery store is opening up in Arizona three miles outside of the Short Creek region. Ladd Egan of KUTV reported last week that the new store sits just off Arizona Highway 389 in the community of Centennial Park. ”

    The store will be opn to everyone, but wonder if warren will let the flds shop there.

  246. Concerning Es, I remember one day the tree where he sat had a rope hanging down from it with a noose tied in the end. Not exactly the kindest of gestures. I was just a kid but I do remember he would have signs telling us how our religion contradicted passages in the bible.

  247. Here’s an article on Warren Jeffs latest revelations from a Canadian newspaper, same silly BS as earlier revelations.

    http://blogs.vancouversun.com/2013/02/12/polygamous-prophet-spreads-the-word/

    The Eldorado Success also ran a similar article recently.

  248. In the Mormon Preexistence, Lucifer plead his case to be The Saviour instead of Jesus Christ. His proposal was that he would not allow Free Will. He would force people to be righteous. He would rule The World with an iron fist, and not allow anyone else to have one word.

    Jesus Christ got to be The Saviour, because He believed in Free Will.

    This humiliating loss is what caused Lucifer to start The War in Heaven.

    It blows my mind that The FLDS can listen to Warren tell this story, and NOT come to the conclusion that he leads his flock like Lucifer, instead of Jesus Christ.

  249. There is a semi trailer parked at the south end of the elementary school now. Next to the stage where countless plays and priceless memories were made. I am concerned as I watch day by day the slow and deliberate theft that’s happening here . I walked through the halls of our elementary school several years ago and wept as I witnessed the carnage. Projector film rolled down the hall. Tens of thousands of dollars of textbooks lying everywhere. It looked like a scene from a movie. Total devastation. Papers pencils notebooks strewn like garbage. I found my old locker and stood there flooded with memories. This property needs to be secured as well as others. Thousands of books from Mrs A’s Library were stacked to the ceiling in a small room that used to be the stage in the north Auditorium. Such disrespect and total disregard for valuable history. I’m having the place watched and videoing activities around the property. They are moving at night because that seems to be when stuff appears and disappears. I know that it may seem petty to want these things preserved, but come stand in front of your locker before you make that decision.

  250. With all the folks leaving the Church these days, it would be nice if Wisan could sell Hildale Elementary back to the Washington Township School District. I’m sure there are way too many hurdles, unfortunately.

    To this day, it boggles my mind that Hildale Elementary School used to be in the same school district as my elementary school in Bloomington. Instead of learning that dinosaurs didn’t exist, we were taken on field trips to the local dinosaur tracks. How can another elementary schools in the same public school district get away with having such a vastly different curriculum?

    Was it the same unorthodox setup where students had an AM teacher and a PM teacher, or did they simply have the same teacher all day?

  251. On “ES” If anyone can give me his real name and/or any identifiers (DOB; approx age; where from/born) I will figure it out. May take a while. If you need my private email, let me or Proud Texan or E. Texas know. I’ll sleuth it up.

  252. OO

    Yes Texas hit them with a hammer but it was well deserved considering what ALL OF THEM there were doing to the children.

    So now, they are getting their fat butts run out of town – those that aren’t in prison anyways.

    For Texas, the problem will not grow or get worse…. they got the message loud and clear.

    But if you are a State that allows this nonsense, then yeah, it just might get worse.

  253. I don’t know Es’s real name. He was always just “Es” to me. If I had to guess, I would say he was between 50 and 60 during the mid eighties. Age could be a little deceptive under his beard though. I believe I heard he was Greek or of Greek decent; he was definately Caucasion though.

    Someone here said that Roger Williams took him in and fed him, maybe he has more information. Roger lives in Centennial Park and would probably be willing to talk about him.

    Also, I’m sure the local cops arrested him on many occasions during those days. A “Freedom of information request” will probably get his information buried suddenly, or it may reveal a lot more about him.

    I don’t know if that helps or not. 🙂

  254. E-S-S is short for his actual name, with starts with those three letters. I knew it once but forgot it. It’s Greek and it’s very long. It’s recorded in Ben Bistline’s book, ‘The Polygamists’. If someone has access to it, they can find it in there.

  255. Essasyphololus

    And I was wrong about the book. I found it in Jason Williams’ ‘Zero Chance’. Jason gave a pretty accurate description of how the men in that C.C. treated Ess. Those men will be held accountable to God for what they did.

  256. http://books.google.com/books?id=seOvhcvo_rcC&pg=PA21&lpg=PA21&dq=%22zero+chance%22+%22jason+williams%22+ess&source=bl&ots=VhZoSYXWAO&sig=2DET6AaSf3FAbs1bBWv9_DzQq4Q&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NskfUYCiFIjTigKFooDAAw&ved=0CEMQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=%22zero%20chance%22%20%22jason%20williams%22%20ess&f=false

  257. Ben Bistline’s book is very underrated. If you are interested in the history of the FLDS before Warren, it’s a must read.

  258. thank you TC for not forgetting. still here

  259. It’s also very biased. Ben let his hurt Bistline feelings affect his ability to be objective.

  260. I thought Ben Bistline’s books were very good.

  261. I met with Ben a couple of tmes back in the 90s. He was helpful, open, and thoughtful.

  262. I wonder if Warren’s feelings are hurt now that Texas put him and his top Priesthoodlums in prison.

  263. Funny little booklets he was writing and sent out to all the law offices of the land. One could argue Bistline had a much better grasp on reality.

  264. The cat in the hat. Now that was a good book.

  265. Ohh I don’t object to them being there stamp. I see things as worse already. I had a chance to talk to some of my family recently. The whole time i’m thinking in the back of my mind “these kids will never be able to leave on the same terms I was able to”. I admit it was Warrens doing but did we expect him to not retaliate on his own people?

  266. Essasyphololus

    Now I know why we just called him ES. 🙂

    Does anyone know whether that was his first or last name?

    I have both Ben’s and Jason’s books and liked them both.

  267. OO

    Warren’s retaliation against his own people is evidence that

    1) He is a fairy tale Prophet

    for

    2) a fairy tale religion

    And yeah, for many, it will likely get worse before it gets better.

    At least now, he cant kick people out of their home on a whim…. well they can try to but if the man of the house, if there is such a thing out there, has a spine and tells Lyle and the rest of the hoodlums to go pound sand, they CANT do anything, unlike the early 2000’s.

  268. Since Judge Benson decided to dismiss the lawsuit of FLDS against Utah State,we will have to see what happens,will Wisan look at who’s consistently paying their rent/taxes & who’s not ? We will have an interesting year maybe ? other-Anon

  269. I wonder if CP still wants to buy the BerryKnoll property.

  270. Monolithic voting in Colorado City: http://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2013/02/14/colorado-city-arizona-shows-bizarre-voting-trends/

    Not too surprisingly, CCAers vote alike.

  271. As I understand it Warren would have the opportunity to buy it as well, they were planning an auction… but if he did, he wouldnt be able to set foot on it again in this lifetime, mebbe if he was reincarnated as a road runner next time….

  272. Buying off politicians with a gigantic voting block is an age old Mormon trick that dates back to Joseph Smith. You can read all about it in “No Man Knows My History.” It had varied success for him, though.

  273. I’m not sure if this is the proper forum for this but I know that a lot of people from Colorado City/ Hildale read this blog.

    Yesterday, 2/20/13, around 4 or 5 pm., my neighbor’s non-flds children were with their little dog (which was loose with them) down by the dairy at the corner of Juniper and Arizona Ave.. One was in kindergarten and one was a bit older. A man in a white, double cab ford pickup with a utility bed, tried to run the little dog down, right in front of the children.

    The older boy was screaming at the driver to please not run over his dog, but the driver just looked at him, laughed and pressed on. The little dog jumped up on the sidewalk, desperately trying to get away, but the driver of the truck followed and jumped his truck up on the sidewalk as well, then successfully crushed the little dog, right in front of the little kindergarten boy and his brother.

    The young boy and his older brother are still trying to get over the trauma of having to watch their little dog’s brains get all squished out, right in front of them.

    This all happened at a blind corner, and with all the abnormally tall fences in this town now, the chance of a wreck is greatly exacerbated. If children on bikes had been coming down the hill to be with their brothers, the driver speeding on the sidewalk, with his attention intent on trying to kill the dog, might never have had enough time to swerve or stop and a nasty wreck could have happened.

    The older one of the two gave the Mohave County Police the description of the vehicle and said that the driver then drove over to the construction project, on the other side of the dairy by the hi-way, and parked. I’ve heard it is the new town fire house that they are building there.

    This is a small town and there can’t be that many white pickups with utility beds around here that would park at that construction site. We can catch them if we work together.

    Also, on 12/6/12, just after dark, my daughter and her friend were late getting the horses home, and were only 3 blocks away, when someone in a white pickup, with abnormally bright lights, sped up and charged at my daughter’s friend’s horse.

    They came out of Harold Black’s yard on West Edson Ave.. I hope that it was only their intention to try and frighten the horse and get it to run away with her or buck her off. That is a common occurrence that happens in this town if you are a non-flds resident.

    The reality is, that in their misguided ambition to scare the young non-flds girl (it is easy to tell the difference because she wasn’t wearing a dress), they were not paying attention to their driving and nearly hit my daughter with their truck. She was following behind her friend on another horse. The driver then sped away from the scene; it may have been an extended or stretch cab white truck. Obviously it happened very unexpectedly and fast.

    The young girls then made it the rest of the way down the block and were waiting under the streetlight to safely cross the road at the corner of Richard and Edson. My daughter had her puppy following them and it started out into the road alone.

    Someone coming the other way, in an older model, midsized, grayish car, sped up, swerved and tried to run the puppy down. The puppy panicked and raced completely across the road and up on the shoulder of the opposite road, with the car following closely on its heels. The puppy was terrified and frantically yelping as he was run down by the car, right in front of the girls eyes.

    If anyone has any knowledge about any of these crimes, they can call the Mohave County Sheriffs Office at 1-800- 526-1911.

    If any flds members read this blog…..Last week, someone tried to run a non-flds driven vehicle off the road with their vehicle. They were then chased down by the parties who were run off the road and ended up having a heart to heart talk with them and their parents.

    Charges were not pressed this time, but the young flds mans excuse that they are “just bored around here”, is not an excuse for the sometimes dangerous B.S. that is constantly going on around here involving the flds and the non-flds citizens of our community.

    Last Thursday, I had a hard time feeding my horses because of the hail of rocks, boulders and coal being thrown at me by the neighbors. That very morning, while I was stopped at a stop sign, someone in a white mini-van swerved hard at me and almost hit my truck while honking incessantly, then they swerved back to their lane of traffic.

    Charges are going to start being pressed.

    Isaac Wyler

  274. I’m not sure if this is the proper forum for this but I know that a lot of people from Colorado City/ Hildale read this blog.

    Yesterday, 2/20/13, around 4 or 5 pm., my neighbor’s non-flds children were with their little dog (which was loose with them) down by the dairy at the corner of Juniper and Arizona Ave.. One was in kindergarten and one was a bit older. A man in a white, double cab ford pickup with a utility bed, tried to run the little dog down, right in front of the children.

    The older boy was screaming at the driver to please not run over his dog, but the driver just looked at him, laughed and pressed on. The little dog jumped up on the sidewalk, desperately trying to get away, but the driver of the truck followed and jumped his truck up on the sidewalk as well, then successfully crushed the little dog, right in front of the little kindergarten boy and his brother.

    The young boy and his older brother are still trying to get over the trauma of having to watch their little dog’s brains get all squished out, right in front of them.

    This all happened at a blind corner, and with all the abnormally tall fences in this town now, the chance of a wreck is greatly exacerbated. If children on bikes had been coming down the hill to be with their brothers, the driver speeding on the sidewalk, with his attention intent on trying to kill the dog, might never have had enough time to swerve or stop and a nasty wreck could have happened.

    The older one of the two gave the Mohave County Police the description of the vehicle and said that the driver then drove over to the construction project, on the other side of the dairy by the hi-way, and parked. I’ve heard it is the new town fire house that they are building there.

    This is a small town and there can’t be that many white pickups with utility beds around here that would park at that construction site. We can catch them if we work together.

    Also, on 12/6/12, just after dark, my daughter and her friend were late getting the horses home, and were only 3 blocks away, when someone in a white pickup, with abnormally bright lights, sped up and charged at my daughter’s friend’s horse.

    They came out of Harold Black’s yard on West Edson Ave.. I hope that it was only their intention to try and frighten the horse and get it to run away with her or buck her off. That is a common occurrence that happens in this town if you are a non-flds resident.

    continued…

  275. Anonymous said this on February 21, 2013 at 6:06 PM continued…

    The reality is, that in their misguided ambition to scare the young non-flds girl (it is easy to tell the difference because she wasn’t wearing a dress), they were not paying attention to their driving and nearly hit my daughter with their truck. She was following behind her friend on another horse. The driver then sped away from the scene; it may have been an extended or stretch cab white truck. Obviously it happened very unexpectedly and fast.

    The young girls then made it the rest of the way down the block and were waiting under the streetlight to safely cross the road at the corner of Richard and Edson. My daughter had her puppy following them and it started out into the road alone.

    Someone coming the other way, in an older model, midsized, grayish car, sped up, swerved and tried to run the puppy down. The puppy panicked and raced completely across the road and up on the shoulder of the opposite road, with the car following closely on its heels. The puppy was terrified and frantically yelping as he was run down by the car, right in front of the girls eyes.

    If anyone has any knowledge about any of these crimes, they can call the Mohave County Sheriffs Office at 1-800- 526-1911. Continued…..

  276. I remember being at meetings where we were told to bring our voting books, so we could go over who we were supposed to vote for.

    Uncle Fred wanted a big turnout.

  277. Wow, just wow. My mouth is hanging open. Thanks for telling. Maybe someone can track down who the truck belonged to and get that information out too. This should be headline news and the owner of the truck “a marked man”

  278. Ergo the mentality of the FLDS men…. just pathetic and cruel.

    They deserve the destructions that Warren brought down upon them.

  279. Please report the incident to the Mohave law enforcement
    hhg

  280. Will Timpson Jessop’s group in the Trib: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55867043-78/jessop-congregation-flds-jeffs.html.csp

  281. From St George, UT, a speech by Elizabeth Smart at Dixie State U.

    http://www.thespectrum.com/videonetwork/2186590472001?odyssey=mod|tvideo|article

    She speaks of child abuse, but makes no mention of polygamy, even though the FLDS at “short creek” were just down the highway. She touches on polygamist Mitchell’s use of “god” as a justification of his actions, but never mentions the plural marriage or polygamy.

    If I was a reporter, I would have asked her opinion on the abuses of the FLDS and why it “polygamy” continues to be a festering embarrassment for Utah?

  282. A Texan

    Because…. the locals dont like to bring light onto the seedy side of their religion?

    Here this girl was kidnapped and raped daily as a plural wife, and she wont even speak of why he did it or why others continue to do it. What a wasted opportunity.

  283. Cal Gal’s post with the link on the two Willies was interesting. IMO the one thing that the writers of the SLTrib article seem to side step is Willie the thugs years of brutal abuse. He didn’t get the nickname Willie the thug because he was a nice guy. No he got scared of having to take that white bus to Huntsville,TX.

    He remains a man who committed brutal acts against others, who has yet to face justice for his actions as Warren Jeffs security & enforcer.

  284. Wow if that were my dog or family I don’t think that its the cops he would have to worry about.

  285. Not defending Willie but it is a little different when your in that situation. The portion of stuff that I saw or was part of I was or never will be. I didn’t do a fraction of the BS wille did. I was just part of a crew that got called to move stuff mostly and some interactions with people that had already left.
    I can tell you at a time in my life if I was asked to do

  286. Not defending Willie but it is a little different when your in that situation. The portion of stuff that I saw or was part of I was or never will be. I didn’t do a fraction of the BS wille did. I was just part of a crew that got called to move stuff mostly and some interactions with people that had already left.
    I can tell you at that time in my life if I was asked to do the things he did I would have.

  287. The post about the dogs and flds harassment was only supposed to post once. Apparently, it went into the spam file.

    Blog administer, please don’t post all the other attempts that are still in your spam file. 🙂

    This crime has been turned in to Mohave County law enforcement and many people are coming forward with license plate numbers and home locations of vehicles fitting the descrition of the pickup involved in the crime.

    Isaac Wyler

  288. New story from Mail Online [UK] :
    Ex-FLDS members start new ‘less strict’ polygamy congregation after splitting from child predator Warren Jeffs

    The group meet every Sunday at Holm School, just a block away from where the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints operates its secretive clinic on the Utah/Arizona border.
    The exiled members are happy to be able to come together again under the less-strict Jessop, who organized the group in April of 2011.

  289. Isaac Wyler, thank you for that information. I am very glad to hear that some in the FLDS community are willing to report this kind of thing and cooperate with law enforcement. That kind of behavior is completely inexcusable. I hope they catch the guy who did it and throw him in jail.

  290. Well it is now apparent where the SLTrib stands on polygamy, in an editorial published today, the paper called for legalization of polygamy The editorial compared gay marriage to plural marriage declared both should be legalized.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/55899102-78/marriage-mcentee-polygamous-utah.html.csp

  291. I never doubted where they stood on the issue. Don’t you know that there are probably LDS men huddled in the background rubbing their hands together wondering when they will be able to take a 2nd wife.

  292. This is one LDS guy that is very content with one wife and who has absolutely no desire to have more than one wife.

  293. I’m not so sure that its the Editors that feel that way so much as McEntee.

    She is pro gay marriage, as the paper is likely for the most part, and the columnists have certain license to write about subjects of the day. Whether it was Editorially inspired or of her own volition, is up to conjecture however please note its not from the Editorial Board which would be more of an endorsement from the paper.

    That said, Brooke Adams gave them lots of rope and hardly any heartburn, Lindsay did a better job but perhaps too good, they handed it off and its yet to be seen how the chips fall as more drama rolls down the road.

    In the meantime, it is a good place to voice your opinion on the matter there, let them know how ya feel!

  294. That would sure open a can of worms if polygamy were legalized in Utah while other states wrestle with gay marriage. It has always been a potential concept of legalizing gay marriage that all other forms would be expected as well. If polygamy is legal in Utah then the 3rd world folks who want to move to USA will be moving into Utah. Muslims and Africans would be able to bring the wives to Utah. As they say, careful what you ask for.

  295. oops watergirl above – please ignore the name error!

  296. I’m glad Chemist, I hope all are like you.

  297. Sooner or later polygamy is going to end up in the supreme court again. If gay marriage rights are upheld between consenting adults, then that opens the door to Polygamy to be argued before the court as a right between consenting adults. On the one hand it really is not the governments job to dictate who people love and want to spend their lives with. At one time a government issued marriage license was only required if two people of mixed race wanted to marry. (Reference that in a law dictionary). Then later came required testing for STD’s, at least in some states. After that most states required a license. Texas being one of the few that does not and still recognizes common law. There was a time when marriages in churches and the signature of the Priest and a witness was considered a legally binding marriage.

  298. http://www.keloland.com/newsdetail.cfm/flight-of-the-flds/?id=144372

    Someone needs to start flying over that compound and documenting it like they do in Eldorado.

  299. Elder G

    And the FLDS put their pretend marriages on index cards (alphabetically, one would hope) as they trot off to their honeymoons with their new child bride.

    Ask Warren how that common law thing is workin out for him.

  300. “Ask Warren how that common law thing is workin out for him”.
    —-> 0r David Koresh!

  301. Yeah, I always thought it odd Warren thought he could build a similar pedo ranch down the road from Waco.

    Those guys must really not read any news!

  302. Please continue on General Discussion #82

    Thanks / Admin

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