General Discussion #80 – Utah Supreme Court rocks FLDS

“Jennifer Dobner – Reuters – 7:35 p.m. CDT, October 2, 2012

SALT LAKE CITY (Reuters) –
Utah’s highest court, in a blow to the polygamous sect headed by convicted child rapist Warren Jeffs, refused on Tuesday to allow the church to challenge state control of a communal land trust once run by its jailed leader.
The decision by Utah’s Supreme Court upholds its own 2010 ruling that the three years the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints waited to challenge the state takeover was too long.
It also bars the case from being heard by other state judges.”
Read further:

~ by FLDS TEXAS on October 3, 2012.

425 Responses to “General Discussion #80 – Utah Supreme Court rocks FLDS”

  1. So they won, despite their efforts. Let the sociological experiment commence. Grab the popcorn.

  2. “We’re going to meet with the leaders of the community and decide what steps to take next,” Parker said.

    Who’s *really* calling the ‘community’ shots? Warren, Lyle, another Merilyn son, Merilyn herself, John W?
    What possible ‘steps’? Throw more hurdles into the path of final resolution?

    Praying the ‘complications and issues’ regarding that ‘community’ do not devolve into bloodshed.

    Birth Date: 11/28/91
    Address : 785 N STATE ST, Hildale, UT
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    00:47:13 10/01/12 McMahon, John UHP

  4. Update on DOJ USA vs. CCA/Hildale et al USDC AZ No. 3:12CV8123-HRH:

    The twin towns have filed for a change of venue from the US District of Arizona to the US District of Utah. A hearing does not appear to yet be scheduled, but after reading the motion and USA response, I (not an attorney) think it will remain in AZ, which I think is best.

    I think I posted this part previously, but there is a motion for joinder regarding the Cooke federal case in the same court.

  5. Update on federal CCA vs. UEP, USDC AZ 3:11CV08037-DGC:

    Last week both sides filed a joint report of failed good-faith settlement talks.

  6. What is the CCA v UEP about?

  7. It appears to be the Ron and Ginjer Cooke suit regarding civil rights, neglect, and utilities etc. What I don’t yet understand is whether the case remains because the court lists the case as closed in July, but the joinder in the other case does not appear to be ruled on. My guess is it gets joined with DOJ. I think it makes sense, and I think having the feds supply the bill would be great for them. I’m not personally connected with Brower (would like to be), but he probably knows.

  8. Who is the lawyer in the picture is it Parker, our fave? If not can “we” get a nice picture of Parker and Jeffs?

  9. Thats atty Richard Wright in the middle, and Wally Bugden on the right, you can see his bow tie. If you click the link in the OP it says their names.

    I just noticed this though, the pic above and the header pic of Warren were taken about the same second, but different angle. Or perhaps he always appears in court with that dumb slackjawed look on his face.

    His chin must have really hit the floor when a corrections officer gave him the bad news about the UEP.

  10. Also Wally is the one, many will recall, who was busted for being drunk in public while posing in the lotus position in the middle of the road.

  11. Here is an article with a pic of Rod Parker on the left, standing alongside convicted polygamist Wendell Nielson who is currently in prison in Texas.

    Also pictured are FLDS Attorney Jim Bradshaw and ex-flds spokesman Willie Jessop.

  12. Sorry, CCA vs. UEP does concern the Cookes and Blacks, but it is the one that alleges Wisan/UEP actions after December 13, 2005 were unconstitutional in violation of the First Amendment and not legitimately enforceable.

  13. Paul Murphy is tweeting that Safety Net is discussing whether CCA marshals or emergency services treat FLDS differently than non FLDS. I have the meeting on, but as always I can barely hear it.

  14. The emergency services,(EMT’s) treat everybody fairly,I had congestive heart failure in 2011 & they got me to the Dixie Regional Med Center,as quickly as they could,so yes they are fair in their treatment, I just wish there was a hospital in CCA,instead of going to St.George,UT for long term treatment,as for the marshals I’ve heard enough horror stories about them, so if I have some trouble,I call Mohave County Sheriffs Dept. I won’t deal with city marshals ever or the Fire Dept. You can’t fix insanity LOL….remember”karma has no deadline”……other-Anon

  15. “The federal Court of Appeals sought advice from the Utah Supreme Court on whether claims barred in state courts should be dismissed in federal courts.

    However, the Utah Supreme Court “limited its decision to state law,” FLDS attorney Rod Parker said Tuesday. “It’s now up to the federal court to decide what effect state law has on federal law.”

    The fight isn’t over, said Parker, who believes the 10th Circuit could still decide to take up the case on its constitutional merits.

    “I’m going to meet with the leaders of the community and talk about their options,” he said.”

    From the Standard Times. Maybe Parker is going to make a trip to Palestine to confer with the convicted pedophile Warren Jeffs. Other than that it appears to be a free-for-all as to who is ultimately in charge and making decisions for the group.

  16. “Maybe Parker is going to make a trip to Palestine to confer with the convicted pedophile Warren Jeffs. Other than that it appears to be a free-for-all as to who is ultimately in charge and making decisions for the group.”

    A free-for-all… sounds about right.

  17. Warren should answer them nothing, either that or send more threatening love notes to the justices.

    These tactics have served him well in the past, and is truly proof of his prowess as a divine Prophet.

  18. Supposed footage of Mitt by hidden camera Temple dude?

  19. I don’t believe it’s Mitt and Anne. But it’s kind of a spoof anyway. Chemist?

  20. So how would that work with Secret Service? Would the agents need temple recommends? Would the SS let Mitt go inside a temple without them?

  21. The youtube video posted by anon is a fake, the SLTrib in a story today talked about how Mitt Romney since receiving secret service protection, had not been in a LDS temple.

    “Mitt Romney has gone to church several times since the Secret Service began guarding the Republican nominee, but he’s yet to take in the more sacred Mormon rite: visiting an LDS temple.”

    Read entire article:

  22. I can’t wait for the election to be over. I am sooooo tired of politics….!
    Now back to our regular scheduled program…

  23. The scenes in the video could be from an LDS temple. The website it refers you to is a typical anti LDS web site. As” A Texan” referenced, Mitt and Ann Romney have not been to an LDS temple since he received secret service protection.

  24. I’m with mc1199 on this one. I don’t want this site to be about the election.

  25. Thanks everybody.

  26. Significant change coming out of LDS conference this weekend. Missionary age dropped from 19 yoa to 18 yoa for boys, 21 to 19 for girls. This reverses miltiple decades old policy. I wonder whether more or fewer men and women will return to obtain full college degrees. Seems it would encourage women less & men more, just because the men will come back, enroll, get married to co-eds, and finish while the women drop out. But maybe nothing will change. Interesting.

  27. Yes, I heard about that change yesterday during the Saturday morning session. Like you, I do not know what the effects will be. Apparently the lower ages have been the policy in some countries for several years.

  28. Looks to me like the idea is that you are a missionary between high school and college. I don’t get why girls need to be older than boys.

  29. I agree with Betty. When I was a student at BYU, the freshmen girls were a lot more mature (spiritually and emotionally) than the freshmen boys. In fact, the “problem” boys who were getting “out of line” were kind of encouraged to go on missions as soon as possible to straighten them out.

  30. This from the SLTrib, a documentary on Romney’s family, polygamy, drugs, Mexico. Kinda shocking, Romney’s family members call on Romney & Obama to end the drug wars by legalizing drugs, passing dream act.
    appears to be legit.

  31. Read more from the SLtrib on above documentary:

  32. The documentary thanks several SLC media sources including KSL & Fox 13.

    The question is, will Mitt Romney listen to his Mexican family members, is President Obama listening?

  33. I do not understand why we can’t learn from the prohibition of alcohol. When you make a product that people want or need physically illegal, then you have created a wealthy criminal class and are providing them with a profit. We are spending huge amounts on investigation, prosecution, prisons and we are losing ground. There are huge crime problems near the borders and in inner cities. Maybe if working a real job made more than dealing drugs, some kids would not choose the later. We could save a lot of money and still provide free drug rehab services for all who need it, want it and can’t afford it. Experiments of this sort have worked in other countries.

  34. The land belongs to the tenants of the trust. This includes every child born since inception of the trust. This is a fact and will remain a fact. The erroneous and nefarious acts that have clouded the issues are meaningless. State and Federal officials take note : Thank You for protecting the interests of the women and children of the community known as Hildale and Colorado City. There is a group of individuals who can manage these cities and bring them into compliance with state and federal regulations. We look forward to meeting with you and openly invite a full federal investigation here. It is a necessary step in the process of solidifying the constitutional rule of Law here. The presence of Arizona Deputies has created a landslide of awakenings and abrupt realizations among the peoples here. The belief that ” We are untouchable ” has faded fast. Now… lets finish the job. Thanks Mr. B

  35. Can’t tell you how glad I am to hear that, Mr. B. You sound pretty sure.

  36. Hey Mr. B, is anyone still living in that monstrosity that was built for Warren?

  37. Mr. B, please send your comments to: If you have any information regarding this matter, please contact the Justice Department at 1-800-896-7743 or email the department at

    I am sure they would like to hear from you! And thanks for letting us know. We will keep the woman and children there in our prayers.

  38. Lowering the missionary age is likely a way to curtail draft dodgers. My own Father decided at the age of 18 that a 3 year stint in the US Army would be a better use of his time; much to the chagrin of his folks.

  39. There’s no draft.

  40. I meant ducking your mission.

  41. Oh, I get it, he he.

    From the website
    “11 October 2012 – The United Nations today marked the first International Day of the Girl Child by calling for an end to child marriage, and stressing education as one of the best strategies for protecting girls against this harmful practice.
    “Education for girls is one of the best strategies for protecting girls against child marriage,” Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said in his message for the Day. “When they are able to stay in school and avoid being married early, girls can build a foundation for a better life for themselves and their families.”
    “Let us do our part to let girls be girls, not brides,” he stated, urging governments, community and religious leaders, civil society, the private sector, and families – especially men and boys – to promote the rights of girls. “

    All I can say is amen. Chemist.

  43. Thanks for the link, Chemist. I couldn’t agree more.

  44. No pressure, chemist, but I sent you a personal emal a few days ago. No big deal at all, but just so you know.

  45. Thank you, Chemist. Did they mention what constituted an age cut off for child brides, like 18 or so? Doesn’t the Muslim religion consider a girl that had her first period, ready for marriage? Glad the UN took an official stand on it, about time.

  46. The land belongs to the tenants of the trust. This includes every child born since inception of the trust. This is a fact and will remain a fact. The erroneous and nefarious acts that have clouded the issues are meaningless. State and Federal officials take note : Thank You for protecting the interests of the women and children of the community known as Hildale and Colorado City. There is a group of individuals who can manage these cities and bring them into compliance with state and federal regulations. We look forward to meeting with you and openly invite a full federal investigation here. It is a necessary step in the process of solidifying the constitutional rule of Law here. The presence of Arizona Deputies has created a landslide of awakenings and abrupt realizations among the peoples here. The belief that ” We are untouchable ” has faded fast.

    Mr. B and those associated can be reached @
    We have worked extensively behind the scenes here and wish to remain so. The abuse of civil and human rights here rival scenes in the middle east. It will require a complete dissemblance and rebuild here. It has been a hideout for the lawless for 75 years. They are entrenched in their version of ” Right ” … Yet it is completely ” Wrong” ..

  47. Actually, the highest percentage of under aged brides in any country is in India, which is mostly Hindu. A lot of social evils such as underage marriage is not a matter of religion but of entrenched social customs. It is as wrong to group all of Islam with it’s most extreme sects as it is to say that all Christians or all Mormons agree with Warren Jeffs.

  48. In short, I think the enemies are ignorance, poverty, fanaticism and theocracy, not any one religion.

  49. Mr. B – I’ve heard that some of Warren’s wives and those of his full brothers have left the flock. Can you confirm this?

  50. You tend to put things well, Betty.

  51. Typical scene from General Conference. I’d spend a pretty penny to see footage of this guy trying to do this in Shart Crik.

  52. The guy would probably be arrested by the CC keystone cops for trespassing, disturbing the peace, being an outsider, etc. No free speech in Short Creek

  53. I posted stuff on my blog.

    I do wonder what this stuff with the UEP will entail for the FLDS faithful. Will they be forced from their homes, or told to abandon them to the “wicked?” I hope not. That’s my main fear. Because I know my family are still down there, and as far as I can tell, they still believe in Warren.

  54. If this dude was using this type of inflammatory language in front of a Southern Baptist church, Jewish synagogue, Buddhist temple, he would be charged with disturbing the peace here in Texas. I will say the LDS are very tolerant in light of the abusive and inflammatory language. This guy has the right to his beliefs but crosses the line in my opinion.
    If this guy was spouting off in front of a Jewish congregation, he would be brand a bigot & anti-Semite.

    If this guy had shown this type of abusive language in front of the Baptist churches I attended as a youth, I’m afraid the man might have ended up with a very un Christ like black eye or worse.

    IMO the LDS there in Salt Lake City are showing far more Christ like behavior than the dude with sign.

    I write this post in response to the anon’s post of the vey un-Christ like bigot and Chemist’s post.

    Kudos the the LDS for showing more Christ like behavior than the dude with the sign in the video.

    I apologize for posting this non polygamy related post, but bigot in the video really irritates me.


    Saudi Polygamists seek to relocate to Canada

  56. A Texan, as long as he in on public property and not on Church property he can rant all he wants anywhere he wants whenever he wants. That is what makes this country so great. Free speech. During the Salt Lake 2002 Olympic games they were out in downtown too including youth from Southern Baptist Churches doing basically the same thing. It was a mission trip sponsored by SBC. I talked to a few of them and thought their approach was disrespectful. But, they genuinely felt “called” to do it.

    When I lived in Tennessee we had them on the sidewalk in front of a Muslim mosque anytime they were coming and going. I didn’t agree with them there either but, as long as they stayed on the sidewalk it was/is fair game.

  57. They should try it in front of a nice Italian Catholic Church in New Jersey.

  58. Laughing at the anonymous comment at 10:22 AM. I’d like to see that!

  59. I agree with watergirl, I don’t see anything illegal in what he is doing. It’s annoying, but…….

  60. Canadian officials respond to the issue of immigrant polygamists :

  61. To any of the former FLDS who also know the LDS traditions, how close are the two groups on their baptism rituals?

  62. They were the same when I was a part of the group.

  63. The mainstream LDS baptism is by immersion. The baptizer and the baptizee both wear white clothing.
    The words used are:

    State the person’s full name and say, “Having been commissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen”

    This prayer is from the D&C.

  64. Bigamy charges have been dropped against Warren and his brother Abram along with Leroy and Raymond Jessop. The only charges still outstanding from the YFZ are those against Dr. Barlow. If he’d return from Idaho and plead then his could be resolved also.

  65. Texas drops bigamy charges against Warren Jeffs, AG Abbot dropped charges because there was no need for the expense of another trial with Warren Jeffs in prison for life without possibility of parole, and all his appeal avenues exhausted.

    Read more from SLTrib:

  66. Excuse me? Lloyd Hammon Barlow is here in Idaho? Where’s he at? Perhaps I’m qualified fetch him up and turn him in. Besides, I thought he only faced BOM licensure charges in TX and got a slap on the wrist.

  67. Here’s an interesting video that shows what happens in the Texas prison system, this is the life for most of the FLDS men, with the exception of Warren Jeffs who is in solitary for life.

  68. This week’s Eldorado Success is reporting that the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality (TCEQ) has contracted the oversight of YFZ compliance to independent contractor Paul Allred.

    Yes, that Paul Allred.

    In the past, the City of Eldorado was contracted as the compliance oversight for YFZ.

    The Mayor of Eldorado is not a happy camper; he is making noise about Allred providing oversight.

    TCEQ told the Success that Allred was qualified.

    And that Allred himself claimed he was “no longer affiliated with YFZ.”

    Interesting article.

    Interesting week.

  69. They didn’t say where in Idaho 3C, but you could probably get that information from Clint Griffin in Eldorado who is the County attorney.

  70. Interesting PT, checked state of Idaho list of physicians, no license for Barlow, which means if he’s there, then he’s practicing medicine without a license. Guess he’s not only a fugitive from justice but a quack as well.
    If someone knows where he is they could tip off the Idaho authorities that he’s there, don’t think they will like someone practicing medicine without a license.

    Of course he could be hiding out by crossing into Canada to FLDS compound there.

  71. No licensed midwives named Barlow in Idaho either.

  72. maybe Barlow retired – here’s hoping

  73. He may be in Northern Idaho where he can slip in and out of Bountiful, Canada. The flds seem to like living close to borders.

  74. Likely chemist, and there are a number of small enclaves in extreme southeastern Idaho, and there always have been.

  75. TC: I was not aware of fundamentalist groups in SE Idaho. Are you talking about the Bear Lake area or the Preston area (N of cache County) Utah? I presume these are small independent groups.

  76. Judge Lindberg has told Utah AG Shurtleff to pay, he owes Wisan $5.6 million dollars! Ole Shirtless is trying to wiggle out of this one. Of course how the federal appeals court in Denver,CO rule could change everything.

    Read the SLTrib article:

    Ole Wisan IMO will have a devil of a time prying a dime out of ole Shirtless!

  77. I don’t think the ruling by the 10th Court of Appeals will have any bearing on whether or not Shirtless has to pay the money, that is just who manages the trust. I think that if the trust was given back to the FLDS there would probably be a 5.6 million dollar lien placed on it and the result would be that the land would have to be sold to satisfy the debt.

  78. last few days on Twitter:
    Carolyn is in UK and had an interview
    book Plygs – by Ed Kociela – youtube announcement – book cover has a picture of a typical Baptist or Methodist church on it – rather odd for subject of FLDS who don’t have churches that look like this.

    weets Top / All / People you follow
    14h Lishka ‏@littleLishka
    My torment living in a Mormon sect’s cult | … #mormon #lds #flds #exmormon #polygamy #abuse #rape
    View summary
    23 Oct Nate Carlisle ‏@natecarlisle
    Looking more like Utah will have to pay $5.6 m to pay for polygamous trust it took over @SamSifton #polygamy #FLDS
    22 Oct Ben Winslow ‏@BenWinslow
    NEW: Judge orders @MarkShurtleff to appear in court on #FLDS land case, answer why $5.6m bill has NOT been paid. @fox13now #utpol #Utah
    22 Oct Perry Webster ‏@webster_perry
    Sacramento has a very good roster.. There 2nd unit may be best in the league.. Jimmer would be better off promoting Romney #flds
    18 Oct Cassandra Muise ‏@GypsySoul__
    Gonna start reading #Prophet’sPrey by #SamBrower tonight, #FLDS history #guiltypleasure
    18 Oct docholly ‏@docholly
    If #Mitt wins maybe he’ll pardon #WarrenJeffs of the #FLDS –
    18 Oct Ed Kociela ‏@EdKociela
    have you read ‘plygs’ yet? … #bindersfullofwomen #mittromney #polygamy #flds #warrenjeffs

  79. Yes, chemist, Bear Lake, Soda, Montpelier, even Rexburg. Independents and AUB I believe. Some of those over the years converted to FLDS and moved down to the crick.

  80. I recall a few folks around Lava Hot Springs in SE Idaho. LeRoy Johnson used to go there a lot “for the water” and other members of the FLDS. It was considered a “safe’ vacation site.

  81. Part of the charges against Jacob Barlow and David Darger was spending funds from the volunteer fire department was on a “training” trip to Lava hot springs.

  82. Update on the status of the Brown family’s federal lawsuit: UT 2:11-CV-00652-CW-BCW:

    Both sides have filed motions for summary judgment and objections to one another’s motions. The motions are scheduled to be heard in January on 01/17/2013 3:30pm.

  83. Some idiot is tweeting that Romney has a bunch of secret plural wives on a rancho in Mexico. He doesn’t. He’s not getting my vote, but that is just plain baseless.

  84. It’s the silly season, 3C.

  85. Point taken, Betty.

  86. more UEP trial information Cooke case

  87. Third Cousin….I am traveling across the Atlantic and earlier, when I was in Italy, I met a woman (mid 60’s) onboard the ship whose father was born in the same Colonia as Geo Romney. That got my interest! She had no idea growing up that her grandfather was a polygamist. It was a big family secret that came to her attention after her father died a number of years back and her older aunts fessed up to their childhood in Mexico. Her dad and family moved to the states in the mid 1910’s. I didn’t get a chance to ask here what the family name is/was, but I’m hoping to before we get to Florida. She doesn’t like Mitt Romney and says its his politics and not abt religion. I’ll let ya know if I find anything more.

  88. Thanks, MC. Do let me know, but the Romney’s are relatives of mine from way back, we colonized the same part of Utah along with the Hatches and Kingstons in the late 1840s. Later, we colonized S. Utah, Arizona, and the Mexican colonies. My fourth great had 11 wives and 50 kids. We’re everywhere. My grandma’s sister jokes she had to move to California to get married so she wouldn’t accidentally marry a cousin.

  89. I had a feeling you’d have a relative there somewhere…you have an enourmous family tree with very heavy branches. 🙂

  90. Fun fact:

    Rock star Alice Cooper was raised in the Bickertonite Church of Jesus Christ Mormon offshoot.

  91. She was unique then 3C. Most don’t let marrying a cousin, niece, stepdaughter, etc bother them.

  92. Now that IS a fun fact re Alice Cooper.

  93. I’m hearing from the Safety Net that enrollment at the El Capitan school is increasing and additional staff is being hired within the community. That sounds like good news.

  94. It doesn’t sound like bad news, that’s for sure.

    Is El Cap big enough to fit the entire local population, should they go back to school? Or was it built for the smaller population that remained after the scholarly exodus?

    For you google Earth types, it’s off the West side of the main Highway just south of the state line with the twin baseball fields.

    When the Warrenites still went to school, didn’t they use the cluster of buildings catty-corner from the meetinghouse to the SW?

  95. I’m waiting for WSJ to say he predicted/prophesied New York would be destroyed by a large flood,or course it doesn’t say that in the D&C section 84,by Joseph Smith,later Orson Pratt & Wilford Woodruff in the Journal of Discourses,that New York & other cities would be destroyed by earthquakes,fires,etc,they said it first but WSJ will take credit for it,even though he didn’t prophesy/predict/reveal anything that hasn’t been said before in the books,thus proving he a real looney/idiot/manipulator/charlatan he is……….mark my words he’ll lay claim to a large flood/hurricane devastating New York & surrounding areas/states,,,,,other-Anon

  96. Finally someone who knows the scriptures, good or bad.

  97. New rumors from someone who recently left the Warren crowd:

    Any uncircumcised male, young or old, is required to undergo circumcision ASAP

    Women who have EVER had a miscarriage are being sent away.

    Women whose births have been assisted by a male are being sent away.
    — IOW, no man’s hand must ever touch a woman “down there,” including her husband. —

  98. So, who is sending in the foxes with torches attached to their tails?

  99. Well if WSJ keeps on writing those rambling predictions of his, eventually he’ll predict something that happens.

  100. Tiny Dancer, that is really frightening. Thanks for keeping us advised. Things are not looking up I guess.

  101. So what about Dr. Barlow? no doubt he has had to “touch” women? Does he get an exclusion?

  102. Good question WG. I don’t even know whether he’s in or out at this point.

  103. The Dr. Barlow’s (Loyd, Lehi, and the dentist John Y.) were all ex’ed back in june/early july

  104. The Dr. Barlows (Loyd, Lehi, and the dentist John Y,) were all ex’ed back in late june.

  105. parade happened last night. polygamous entertainment.

  106. So warren is thinning the flock. In the long term those who are being exed will be better off than those who remain “faithful”embers.

  107. Excellent word choice. Unless it was a typo.

  108. Those faithful few who are burning with the spirit.

  109. Anon was anything on fire or was it a parade just to parade?

  110. parades are entertainment. I wonder if it was Warren approved. He won’t let folks play so why would a parade be any different. Impressive amount of equipment for such small towns.

  111. Just a parade. Kevin Barlow was in the lead car, he is probably new chief since Jacob Barlow got exed….

  112. Off topic, there was a murder in Washington Co. Utah yesterday, blunt force trauma to the head, 76 year old husband arrested for murder.

  113. Sorry, here’s the link to the murder story.

  114. Happy Dia de los Muertos. Speaking of Day of the Dead – has anyone seen this book called Latter Day of the Dead out about a mormon polygamist colony of zombies?

    Fireworks in court between AG Shurtleff and Judge Lindberg on Utah paying Accountant Wisan for UEP expenses.

  116. Bountiful FLDS withdraw all children from school for home schooling

  117. 10th Circuit overturns Benson:

  118. I see your latches and raise you one res judicata!

  119. So FLDS are just getting whacked over and over by the judicial system…
    would be nice to see the Civil Rights case come up fast and furious also

  120. Tomorrow is election day and don’t forget to vote!! Remember, Romney is a MORMON!! A vote for Romney is a VOTE FOR POLYGAMY!!!! Please support President Obama, a vote for Obama is a vote against exploitation and oppression of the downtrodden. Thank you!!!

  121. Remember ALL POLITICIANS & PRESIDENTS ARE CORRUPT!! DON’T let anybody tell you to vote for on Tuesday, all politicians are in it politics for power,control & money,of course they’re being manipulated by big national & international money interests :banks,etc, the banks are the puppet masters & the politicians are the puppets, this nation is controlled by them, controlling,manipulating,evil bastards,who don’t care about us,the common Americans,Obama is controlled by the puppet masters too, don’t think he’s FREE to ACT on HIS OWN, HE’S NOT, If you vote tomorrow, try write in votes like other,etc, you’re fools if you believe/think otherwise, politics is a game controlled by the people with MONEY,who have LOT’S of IT……other-Anon

  122. Well, Obama brought the FLDS advocates right into his cabinet. He has Steven Snow (former and staunch legal representative for the FLDS) on his faith based cabinet, and he confirmed David O. Nuffer, former partner of Steven Snow (and former city attorney for Colorado City/Hildale) as a federal judge. Talk about the foxes in the henhouse. Obama opened the door to them.

  123. His justice department also was the first to investigate and file suit against the cities of Hildale and Colorado city for their flagrant civil rights violations, something no one in Utah or Arizona has been willing to do.

  124. SLT article on the appeals court ruling in the UEP case.

  125. Betty –

    Got your latches and res judicata and raise you one WRIT DENIED by the US Supreme Court.

  126. from the SLT article: Parker refers to Rod Parker, long standing attorney for the flds.

    “We’ve got plenty of life left in us if we want to pursue it, that’s for sure,” Parker said, but “I don’t see it ever being resolved by litigation … I think it needs to be resolved by settlement in some form.”

    It may not get appealed to the US supreme court.

  127. Sorry: last post was by me.

  128. #CalGal. I’m happy to see the feds have started an investigation…but where are the charges? Haven’t seen anything come out of it yet… much like Canada’s with its huge report… and no follow up. All talk and no do.. the foxes continue to cavort.

  129. Anonymous, the Feds didn’t investigate and just do a report–they filed a lawsuit. It is moving through the court. It’s a civil suit, not a criminal one, but they have moved to redress victims of the FLDS. And in all fairness, so did the State of Utah in taking over the trust. The trust got bogged down in litigation, but it should move forward now.

    I agree, though, that it is very frustrating that they have SO much information about all of the trafficking of children across state and international borders for sex and have done nothing about that. In fact it is more than frustrating–it is unconscionable. That the United States, the Canadians and the state and local authorities in Utah and Arizona have done nothing about this is a disgrace.

  130. #CalGal. It is, indeed, unconscionable. For those of us with family there, with young children who have now also been taken from their parents and who are being subjected to even further crimes, any delay in actual action is unconscionable.

  131. Anonymous–I couldn’t agree more. I wish there were a way to get authorities to take this seriously. Thank you to Texas for actually doing something.

  132. 3C…I finally found the woman I’d mentioned from my trip: The one who had the polygamist grandfather in Mexico. All she could tell me about him was his last name was STAYNER. When I asked her what his 1st name was, she looked at me with a surprised look and said….”Ya know….I have no idea!” Again, unfortunately, I only had a quick moment with her as we were boarding buses to separate airports and shooed on our way. So, I don’t know if that helps or not. It seems to me I’ve heard that name in this forum, at one time or another…but, my brain is still to tired to think about it.

  133. anon @ 11:33 if children have been removed from their parents it needs to be reported. File a report with the Mohave County SO.

  134. Unfortunately, if the children are removed with parental consent, there is no CPS issue. No different than “stay the summer at grandma’s.” At least here.

  135. Ah, thank you MC. I’ll check.

  136. I did call to see what could be done about my relatives’ children who were surrendered upon demand to the FLDS after all their parents were kicked out. Can’t do anything aobut it since they “gave them up”.

  137. That is the most baffling aspect of the FLDS.

    Church: “We don’t want anything to do with you. Get the Hell out of town and give us your family.”

    Plyg dude: “Duh, OK…”

  138. Hello, I realize that this discussion board may not be the ideal place to post this request – but I am not the the country at the moment and so cannot go searching myself, I am trying desperately to find a young woman that had joined the flds group willingly as we have not heard from her at all since she us, and after researching this group online , I am obviously quite concerned. Any ideas where to start? The only name I have is Lyle Jeffs , which was on packages she had received a while back, along with a p.o box address. Any help would be greatly appreciated, Thank-you

  139. I find it hard to believe that there is not a way around it. How can you give your child to a group that has a proven history of child sex abuse and get away with that? Staying at grandma’s is not allowed if grandpa is on the sex offender list.

  140. Absolutely Betty.

  141. Jacob Ray Zitting of CCA arrested yesterday by Hyrum Roundy, charged with aggravated arson of a habitable structure. Anybody know what happened?

    Birth Date: 07/27/92
    Address : PO BOX 152, Colorado City, AZ
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    21:42:04 11/06/12 Roundy, Hyrum HILD

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    76-6-103 ARSON-AGG-HABITABLE S 1F 5DIS 20000.00 20000.00

  142. Oh, and I see one of the Nevermissashot’s is at the county B&B as well.

  143. Who is Nevermissahot, & company ???? Remind me ???? other-Anon

  144. Anybody know if the judge has been out flying lately? Curious if things are still dead quiet at the ranch.

  145. The Nevermissashots are a native american family from the St. George area. Not a year goes by that they don’t show up at the county bed & breakfast. Ever since I heard the name I have been wondering what kind of certification I would have to get down at the shooting range to qualify for that name. 🙂 I think I remember Overlord Offtopic used to know the family.

  146. i hav ran into a Nevermissashot a few times. I really don’t know them. St. George is still a small place. Its hard to not cross paths with just about everybody.
    Only reason Nevermissashot stands out like hey i know that guy is because he is in the bookings alot.

  147. Well, that and their surname.

  148. I make it out to San Jorge a few times a year and I’ve yet to spot anyone I recognize from following this blog. Maybe next time.

  149. Hidden camera Temple dude posted the live endowment ceremony that is only done in the SLC and Manti temples. Everywhere else, it’s a movie like the one posted in a previous thread.

  150. You don’t see me but I see you. Im always watching lol

  151. The paranoid set will now be looking over their shoulders more often! LOL!

  152. hahaha, OO, I was referring more to folk like Willie Jessop, Richard Holm, etc. I wouldn’t recognize YOU if you punched me in the face. Unless of course, you actually happen to be one of those highly visible people.

  153. If by highly visible you mean fat then yes as a matter of fact I’m very highly visible

  154. lyle was sent away without his wives?????

  155. Oh OO, you’re missed around here. Hilarious.

  156. Good grief:
    Soon there will be only a few flds members of good standing left. Those lucky? few who are men will each have double digits numbers of wives to take care of. Just a further drain on the public welfare, food stamps, etc.

  157. I don’t know Chemist, looks like from this post Warren found a way to randomly even out the mix of those that are left:

    …Women who have EVER had a miscarriage are being sent away.
    Women whose births have been assisted by a male are being sent away.
    — IOW, no man’s hand must ever touch a woman “down there,” including her husband. —
    TinyDancer said this on October 30, 2012 at 11:03 PM

  158. The most recent news on the LeBaron Colony’s right to bear arms in Chihuahua Mexico:

  159. Warren’s gonna need more of those Sons of Helaman to carry out all those evictions.

  160. Sending them off to battle is a great way to lower the competition for young wives.

  161. Opening the door for: Celestial Marriage

  162. I went to the food store & the hardware store here in CCA,after my brother phoned me telling both were shut down & locked up: store sign says,CMC is closed,,,,Thank you for your patronage,,,,,,hardware store says same thing also says :closed until further notice..I called Isaac Wyler & he says it looks like closures could be permanent,he also says the Radio Shack here was shut down too,all three stores employed 85 people,now they have got to look for other jobs,looks like FLDS have to go St.George area to buy food,hardware & electronics,now those bussnesses are gong to lose lots of money & cutting their throats in the process,,another prophesy from the brainless leader WSJ: Yellowstone Park will erupt soon & cover the Northwest U.S. in ash, you can watch TV & it’s talked about for the last 4 years at least,it’s also 30,000 years overdue, “you can’t fix insanity” “karma has no deadline”……………….other-Anon

  163. But other anon, don’t forget that according to my grandma the earth is only 6K years old, so how can the eruption be 30K years overdue? I guess I better get to canning food again.

  164. TC, that’s a good comeback,one thing I do know you can’t buy canning supplies/food at the store in CCA maybe forever …….LOL!!!!!!other-Anon

  165. On the business closings:

  166. Deseret News version of the coming apocalypse:

  167. And from Fox 13:

  168. Other anon, I get down to short creek a couple times a year. As long as the Merry Wives (great food) doesn’t close, I can probably subsist. Otherwise my choices are Fredonia and Orderville (or fancy and expensive Springdale), whose cafes have erratic and undependable hours. If not, although I’m a girl, I am certainly capable of grilling a steak on the tailgate of my truck or even on the ground. Perhaps next time I visit we should meet for a tailgate steak. Sometimes my cute little family (husband, and 7 & 9 year old) accompanies me on these trips, always with a visit to the Isaac Carling cemetery, normally followed by a god squad visit.

    Almost every time I visit I proceed to Lee’s Ferry, a sacred place to my family, where we ran the ferry for years until the Navajo Bridge. Some of us are buried there at our Lonely Dell Ranch.

    Please tell me right away if the Merry Wives closes.

  169. Merry Wives Cafe is owned by John Timpson (Centennial Park) they are kinda expensive, as for meeting up for a tailgate party,maybe when you show up again give me your phone number, My father is also buried in the cemetary……….other-Anon

  170. Keep you posted Other Anon 🙂

  171. Apparently the food store ,hardware store & Radio Shack opened up today,who knows if FLDS will try this crap again,we got a taste of what they can do to deprive believers & non-believers of basic necessities,though I think FLDS was aiming for non-believers,they may try again before they’re lifted up/raptured before end of year,could that be December-21,2012? LOL….Nothing was moved out of store most food was there,although some items were empty on shelves,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,what a crock of s**t….lol….other-Anon

  172. I think Wal Mart should move in and open up a store. Goodness knows they used to always be at the ones in San Angelo when they were around here. HEB was another store they frequented often.

  173. However…..His insane holy highness woud just call it ‘evil’, forbid the faithful from using it and the then store would be stuck with few local customers.

  174. I am told that while the stores were open today, this was the last day and then it will close for good. Of course, who knows whether Warren will change his mind about that, especially if the world doesn’t end in a month or so.

  175. The Hurricane Wal Mart was clearly opened with the Crickrs in mind. Greater St. George already had 2 other Wal Marts, one of which was on the way to Hurricane.

  176. PT, I’m quite partial to the HEB whenever I’m in Texas.

  177. You should see the photos I just took of my husband and 6 year old daughter’s Saturday Work Project but on Sunday. Unloading a cord of wood. She’s wearing my calf leather work gloves. We just discussed the fact that in my culture we could not have done it on a Sunday unless it was an emergency.

  178. Well my brother & I drove past the store & hardware store today; the store was papered inside & the hard ware store looked like it had wood or sheet rock inside doors, is it closed forever ? IDK,will have to check tomorrow if it’s closed ? Foolish,Brainless Idiots,,,, “you can’t fix stupid” LOL….other-Anon

  179. Other Anon, what if we could fix stupid?

  180. If stupid could be fixed….I’d have been out of a job 35yrs ago!

  181. Walked by all 3 buildings this morning,there are plastic banners over signs saying : Quality Distribution Services,where supply meets demand,below that : Warehouse….IDK, I talked to Isaac Wyler today,he said all three were bankrupt under CMC corporation,all 3 sound to me like you may have to buy in bulk ???? We’ll have to see if walls/fences are put up soon,for a store house???? Will Quality go bankrupt too?? Your guess is as good as mine….other-Anon

  182. I checked for actual bankruptcy filings and there are none under the Cooperative Mercantile Corporation as of yet. However, Arizona Secretary of State records indicate the CMC was dissolved for failure to file its annual report on 09/30/2012.

  183. That link failed, try this one.

  184. Hey 3C, are you related to any of these rock dwelling plygs in E. UT?

  185. Tc,let’s wait & see what these plygs are going to do with these 3 buildings??other-Anon

  186. Anon, I can’t figure out why that article is not in my current Atlantic Monthly. The photographs are stunning. I knew there was a small group near Moab, but I don’t they are related to me probably with the exception of the Barlow woman pictured. I’ve been to Moab many times but have not seen the cliff dwellings.

    I do remember that Ervil or Verlan LeBaron converted someone from that area back in the 1970’s. He moved on down to the colonia but I’ll have to look up who that was.

  187. Trailer for a new documentary:

  188. I anticipate that the article will be in the next edition of my Atlantic monthly.

  189. wow, that little trailer will put the fear into you won’t it. I think that a good portion of that is just straight BS though. It’s far too slanted for me to take without a huge dose of skepticism.

  190. Okay, wait a second. How can you slant to make FLDS and Warren Jeffs look worse than they are? Really, what could we come up with that is worse than the truth. Zombies maybe…Thats all I got.

  191. Okay Rachel but i can raise you some zombies and double down on some Jeffs…. There’s a book…. Forgive me, couldn’t resist.

  192. Ethical dilemma: almost dead goldfish but you know it’s only a matter of hours. Do you slam it’s head on a rock like you would a trout or do you just let it die a slow asphixiation? Kids will hold a funeral tomorrow either way but ?

  193. Never mind, already dead.

  194. We all know where this is heading about WSJ,he’s an looney bastard,so why not put him in a prison looney bin with other loonies & he can control them with his God complex & throw away the key……..LOL////other-Anon

  195. Nothing new in that trailer, just dramatizing the worst of it with a creepy soundtrack. I don’t doubt weapons were stockpiled for apocalyptic battles from warren’s prophesies, but I think he was always rational enough to know that if he truly started killing people, it would be all over quickly. As much as a lot of the gov’t has turned a blind eye to things, that would’ve crossed a line and they (Feds at least) would’ve come down like a ton of bricks. You’d think child rape would’ve been enough of a line – well, I guess it was eventually (at least in Texas). Not much consolation to Brent though.

  196. I still dont understand why the prison officials cannot deny WSJ from contact with the outside. Seems like he could potentially command his followers to commit mass crimes. Why are prisoners’ rights more important than the safety of normal people?

  197. Well, there’s your Constitutional rights and Amendments and all that….

  198. To Utah’s credit, he didn’t get to spend any time on the phone there. Nor in AZ.

  199. Is there any truth to rumors FLDS in Texas are migrating back to CCA/Hildale or to Pringle,SD or compounds in Lockney,Texas,Colorado,Idaho,Nevada,Beryl,Utah,Bountiful,BC ? I’ve heard some many rumors it’s totally confusing to separate rumor from fact/truth????other-Anon

  200. I don’t think they are in Lockney, that community was sort of a bust from the get go. My best speculation would be Pringle.

    As for prisoners rights, you can thank a federal judge who sat on the bench in Texas long ago.

  201. And anon, Warren was not only on the phone in AZ, he also had unlimited visitors and also, according to some, computer access.


    I’m guessing there will be a longer segment on 20/20

  203. Really PT, I don’t recall all this phone card nonsense starting until he got to TX.

    TX is not exactly the first State that comes to mind when I hear the words “prisoners rights” either.

  204. Check with Flora Jessop if you really want to hear about his stay in Arizona. They have documented proof of his use of the phone, computer, etc.

    Regardless of your opinion of Texas, the prisoners here have all sorts of rights and the use of the telephone is one of those rights. 15 minutes per day, up to 240 minutes per month.

  205. Mail [UK ] also has a good story.

  206. PT, Where is Suzette in the family tree? She looks like a Wall or a Barlow.

  207. Just FYI joiner of federal Ron & Ginger Cooke case with federal USA human/constitutional rights case is officially denied last Friday.

  208. Does anyone here know whether anyone has done a compilation of Warren’s failed prophecies?

  209. I don’t know but if so it’s long and extensive and given our current rapture timeframe of Dec 21 does it really matter? Do you know the magnitude of Joseph Smith’s failed prophecies? Didn’t matter. Oh. Didn’t mean to be bitchy.


    Looks like it’s going to be on 20/20 on Friday, November 23.

  211. “karma has no deadline”……………….other-Anon
    thanks other-Anon, needed to be reminded of that.

    Well, the town shops closing up I guess should have been expected. There may be a lull before the DOJ lawsuit and after new town LE. But, I have no doubt that the town will rise again – perhaps with other merchants no so controlled. may take time but it will happen. There are too many people there in demand, someone will supply it.

  212. I read there were “hundreds of edicts.” Does anyone know if those are available in print or online?

  213. Wow, check out this affidavit from a woman who recently escaped:

  214. I truly fear that what we will discover during this process will be far more horrific than what we heard during those infamous Warren Jeffs “training” tapes in the “temple”. It won’t ,be just a couple of 12 year old girls… it’s going to be thousands of kids systematically destroyed through this process. Take Notice: Social services, politicians, attorney generals, attorneys, the Mormon church leadership, and law enforcement WILL be held accountable by these victims families on the outside who have been asking for help for decades.

  215. Lindsay Whitehurst has a piece on her blog about a UEP town Hall Meeting to be held in Colorado City, AZ on Nov. 30. Utah AG Shurtleff will preside.

  216. So, will the FLDS show up for this meeting?

  217. My bet is that the flds will not be there.

  218. last post at 4:11 am by chemist.

  219. Mirele posted this link the other day. Be sure to watch

    Breaking Polygamy
    “20/20” goes inside “the American Taliban”

  220. Here is a link to the Daily Mail’s headline story-

  221. Who was the family in the first part at the park playing football. The man looked like Leroy Jessop but I know he’s in prison for 75 years for the sexual assault of LeAnn Jeffs.

  222. You have to remember if WSJ dies ,these idiots will still make him a martyr, saying he died for the cause , then somebody will say I have the keys of the Priesthood (Priestcraft). A never ending cycle of power, control & manipulation, no matter what happens or is said, these idiots will believe a FALSE PROPHET/MESSIAH,whoever he is!! Don’t even try to fix stupid, you can’t……there’s no deadline for KARMA……other-Anon

  223. Last night’s 20/20 was a good show. I’m glad the family is adjusting to a ‘normal’ world. Sisu mentioned the Daily Mail article…some of the comments there are interesting. One guy doesn’t believe a word of it, thinks it’s all a put on and that the DM made the story up! Little does he know!!!

  224. 20/20 show was awesome. the FLDS has changed enough in the past 2 1/2 years that I’m almost to the point of saying it’s a completely different community than the one I left in April 2010.

    and for those who might be interested, I made a new post on my blog.

  225. Great post yehaaa. Do you think your opinion of the holidays might change if/when your family leaves the FLDS?

    P.S. I heard last night that Lyle is back in charge as Bishop at the Crick.

  226. Glad you posted that PT. I knew if I told you it would get posted.

    Question: What caused Lyle to suddenly come out of the shadows where he has been hiding and publicly reclaim the Bishophood? Further, What happened to John Wayman?

    Just a few questions to ponder on a CyberMonday!!!

  227. The 20/20 piece was excellent.

    Loved watching that woman chasing that coward “Dog Catcher in New Big Pickup” down the road.

    And then asking them if they were still following “that convicted child molester” which of course none of them would answer – though we all know they do.

  228. This in from Canada :

  229. From what I’ve heard John Wayman is on the run/lam from LE/FBI for transporting underage girls across state lines & international boundaries for the purpose of marrying FLDS/WSJ’s male followers,he still on the run from the LE authorities……….other-Anon

  230. I wish other Anon. I haven’t heard of any charges being filed against him.


    Looks like Warren is keeping up with the news. Wonder how he will take it when his followers get thrown out of their houses for not cooperating and also this could affect Pringle and Eldorado.

  232. If there’s a warrant or indictment on Wayman for that type of crime it would have to be federal, and likely secret until they catch up with him.

  233. I did not think the flds faithful would attend the meeting, now I know they won’t. The answer them nothing ploy from warren has only caused his followers grief and loss of their trust.

  234. Is the 20/20 video available anywhere else aside from abc news website? it is not working for me on abc news

  235. I found the 5 segments on YouTube. Search for ABC News Polygamy.

  236. Also, Holding Out Hope posted it on their website.

  237. thanks Proudtexan!


  239. From Lindsay Whitehurst’s blog at the SLT.

    “The “20/20″ investigation of the Warren Jeffs-led polygamous sect, the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, was No. 1 in its time slot, according to TV Newser.

    The show, which aired Friday at 10 p.m., drew 5.8 million viewers and added 16 percent to ABC’s performance a year ago at that time, the media-watching site reports.”

  240. So, let me get this straight. Warren is giving them an excommunication ultimatum?

    1) Stay in the sect. Give every penny you get to the Church. Keep your hands off your wives. Have other men sleep with your wives instead. Turn in all your kids. Shun the world. Listen to WSJ sermons over and over for the rest of time. etc


    2) Get your own house. Keep what you earn. Raise your own family. Educate your children. Never worry if someones gonna marry your 12 yo daughter. etc

    Anyone who is still dumb enough to choose the former at this point deserves to lose everything. A fool and his money are soon parted.

  241. Couldn’t have put it better myself Anon @ 7:07. And if they pick the first choice, there’s no guarantee that they won’t be kicked out at some point in the future.

  242. Anon @ 7:07, I like that saying ” A fool & his money are soon parted ” or ” Karma has no deadline”, ” You can’t fix stupid ” ……….other-Anon

  243. azfamily‏@azfamily

    #BREAKING AUSTIN, Texas (AP) — Texas attorney general says state will try to seize Warren Jeffs’ West Texas polygamist ranch.

  244. Mike W. just posted that the Texas AG filed for an ongoing criminal investigation at the ranch.

  245. Texas moves to seize ranch of polygamist Warren Jeffs

    More at


  246. via the Salt Lake Tribune.

  247. Texas AG will do what Utah AG Shiftless wouldn’t.

  248. the financial portion of the affidavit is fascinating

  249. Question: In the supporting affidavit, William E. Jessop is mentioned. Is that Willie the Thug, or Uncle Will the new prophet? Too many William Jessops and Merrill Jessops for me to keep track of.

  250. William E Jessop is not Willie the thug. He’s the one that filed to be president

  251. Thank you. The affidavit says the William E. Jessop, among others, harbored a fugitive (Jeffs) at the “Suspected Place” (YFZ).

  252. Here’s more, a legal document commanding:

    The State of Texas: To the Sheriff or any Peace Officer of Schleicher County, Texas, or any Peace Officer of the State of Texas, Now, Therefore, you are commanded to enter the suspected place and premises described in said affidavit, to-wit:

    It appears the above has been signed, read the rest:

  253. A Texan

    So what do you think is going to happen?

  254. William Jessop and William Timpson are going to serve time.
    Hold still boys or run. It dosnt matter.

    Colorado City / Hildale is Next.
    Brace yourselves.

  255. Here’s more from the SLTrib:

    The Eldorado paper also has a nice write up as well:

  256. A Texan

    So what do you think is going to happen?

    juliekan said this on November 28, 2012 at 2:42 PM

    It depends on what reaction Warren Jeffs has, if he dose nothing, then the FLDS folks will most likely leave quietly. If Warren in a fit decides the state can’t have it, then don’t be surprised if the FLDS raze the place or set it on fire, then leave.

    Lets hope that Jeffs doesn’t have a David Koresh/Jim Jones reaction resulting in violence, lets hope its a reaction like tearing down the tower or do nothing.

  257. From: Open-Public=Records.Com Texas Archives of Public Information

    Texas moves to seize YFZ Ranch

    AUSTIN – The Texas Attorney General’s Office has initiated legal proceedings to seize the YFZ Ranch, a 1,600-acre property in West Texas where multiple children were sexually assaulted by members of the FLDS. The filing of a search and seizure warrant in the 51st State District Court begins the final chapter of the State’s nearly five-year effort to pursue widespread criminal misconduct at the YFZ Ranch. Texas Ranger Nick Hanna and Schleicher County Sheriff’s Deputies George Arispe and Jason Chatham accompanied a Texas Attorney General’s Office investigator to the YFZ Ranch gate where an attempt was made to serve ranch residents with the search and seizure warrant. When no one would meet the officers at the gate, the warrant was taped to the gate. The Eldorado Success has learned that FLDS prophet Warren Steed Jeffs was served with a copy of the warrant in his prison cell in the Poweledge Unit near Palestine, Texas.

  258. I wonder after the reversals in the UEP Trust and now the YFZ Raunch are we supposed to believe that the other FLDS farms in Nevada, So. Dakota, Idaho and Colorado are not equally crime scenes, given the now known facts on Warren Jeffs and his prophetic ways?

    Given the yuletide season the ‘LA Times’ article has banner ads run next to this news for the “Nutcracker”, too funny!

    Has the Canadian Mounties investigation into the YFZ Raunch resulted in any criminal chrges for the female teens found living there?

  259. Who knows ? In Spanish, Quien Sabe ? We are seeing the falling apart of WSJ’s empire & the deterioration of his colonies,Karma’s a bitch,it took a big bite & chunk out of WSJ’s/FLDS asses & empire……….other-Anon

  260. You’d think the other areas under Warren’s control would buy a clue, but obviously not. There is plenty of stuff in the dictations to take action at every Warren stronghold.

  261. At anonymous 2:44, how do you know the Willies will serve time?

  262. Well, that explains why they are deserting YFZ. I doubt they will be leaving much evidence behind.

    Is there really a compound in Idaho? That huge packet containing all the members signatures didn’t have a single person from Idaho, not even Bonner’s Ferry. It had a guy from Minnesota, likely repenting from afar, but not a single signature from Idaho, even though it had all the Canadian ones.

    I suspect it’s like the Mexican compound; an urban legend. Can anyone shed any light on this? 3C?

  263. Anon at 6:30

    here’s an article about Idaho

    Arrests renew interest in polygamy in Boundary County

  264. This article is from 2009, right? Anything more recent?

  265. Here’s more from SLTrib on seizure of YFZ by the State of Texas:

  266. Here’s a well written article from the Desnews with quotes from Randy Mankin & Sam Brower on subject of Texas seizure of YFZ.

    With Brower stating that Jeffs is a mad man in a Texas prison cell & Randy Mankin saying expect the unexpected from Warren Jeffs.

    Wonder what that felonious profit Jeffs will do next? Something asinine most likely IMO.

  267. juliekan:

    I know Winston Blackmore’s group has a presence in Boundary county. The article makes no mention of Warrenites living in Idaho.

    “The FLDS leader in North Idaho is Shem Erick Johnson, who is said to have remained loyal to Blackmore after he and Oler split the 1,000 members of the Bountiful community into competing factions, each with its own government-supported school.

    Johnson, a 40-year-old Bonners Ferry businessman, is described in a church publication as the FLDS bishop “south of the 49th parallel.” He reportedly has four wives. He is said to have taken his fourth wife last March when she turned 18.”

    The author suggests that Warren may have had a safe house while he was on the run, but does not make any indication that his group still has a presence there. The author refers to both groups as the FLDS, so who knows?

    We need you, 3C. 😉

  268. Sorry, been in court for two days, I’ll research and help asap.

  269. Is our objective ID’ing safehouses up north or locating particular individuals? And there’s obviously no way I’m not related to Shem Johnson. We’ll see…

    I do know that the break off group has the biggest Idaho presence but that the Blackmore people have had a strong presence in Bonner’s Ferry for about 15 years. I think the Bonner County folks are just as estranged from each other as the BC folks. Keep you posted. It’s kind of like the CP vs. Short Creek split in the 80’s, but to tell the obvious, they could all be loosely affiliated like the saying in Islamic culture something like, “me against my brother, but me and my brother against my uncle, and all of our cousins and uncles against the outside world.”

    Anyhow, I’ll get right on it.

  270. anon at 10:13

    do your own googling if you so want to support the fact that your lord and savior Warren Jeffs was not/has no presence in Idaho. I merely tossed an old article out to you concerning FLDS presence in the area, which is what i thought you asked. FLDS is FLDS, in my opinion, including and most importantly child trafficking, which the article addressed

  271. Thanks for your help, juliekan. I have googled it and have found nothing conclusive to suggest that my “lord and savior” has a single follower currently living in the state of Idaho. I even dug up the signature list that is banned from this website; which fully supports my theory. There are Warrenites living in all kinds of crazy States that you would never expect; but nothing in Idaho. Feel free to stand down, if you wish. I anxiously await 3C’s results. She lives there and has forgotten more about the FLDS then most of the rest of us combined ever knew. Thanks again. 🙂

  272. So if Texas government seizes the YFZ property, and the property was bought with UEP money, then does the UEP settlement participants lose out?

  273. Sooo… once in possession, what does Texas ultimately want to do with YFZ? More indictments? Or what? Could they sell it? Recoup some or all of the millions they’ve incurred so far?

  274. Is lyle back in charge?


  276. I’m not sure watergirl and tiny dancer. I don’t think it has ever been established that the trust owned the YFZ. I mean I’m sure trust funds were used to help pay for it, but because of all of the liquid asset shortage the trust has experienced I’m not sure anyone has delved into it. All of the information in the affidavit will probably be useful in figuring out if trust money was used.

    And yes Anon @ 1:26, latest word is that Brother Lyle is back in charge.

  277. This Idaho thing is taking longer than I thought. Keep you posted. I know what I know, but I’m trying to find independent verification for you on our Idaho situation. It is a matter of public record that the Kingston group owns a huge amount of ranch land in SE Idaho, but I know that FLDS and AUB do as well but am looking for proof. There really is no question about the community just below the Canadian border, but I’m working on proving it. I don’t know why I’m having difficulty because there was a lot of press about it in the last 8 years. They may not connect with the term FLDS in searching because they remained with Winston, who technically got booted. I travel to Texas tomorrow for 8 days (sorry PT, into DFW and South to rural, otherwise we’d meet over scraps) but I will continue to research and reach out. Exactly what question are we trying to answer?

  278. So close, but yet so far!!!

    Tomorrow is going to be a fairly busy day for the FLDS. Isn’t the hearing in Phoenix tomorrow and also the dog and pony show that Shirtless is arranging?

  279. 3C, a lot of articles mention that the TX FLDS are moving to compounds in SD, NV, CO, and ID. I know where the SD one is and have found it on Google Earth. Same with CO and NV. I’ve been trying to figure out if there really is one in ID. If there is one, I would suspect they would want to have adjacent properties on either side of the US-Canadian border for obvious reasons, but that’s just a guess.

    Thanks again.

  280. Anon, I feel confident in telling you I know for sure there are settlements in Idaho near the Canadian border. I will continue to ferret that out – but if you can tell me (even privately) what you really need I can help more – if not I will continue with my research regardless.

  281. I know, PT. I wanted to fly into MAF but am needed in rural North central Texas. Piney Woods do you call it?

  282. The Piney Woods are considered East Texas.

  283. Lindsay is supposed to attend the UEP meeting in Short Creek so she may have a report on her blog later today or over the weekend

  284. Don’t sweat the links 3C, I trust your extensive inside knowledge. You don’t have to reveal their locations or anything, I merely wanted confirmation of it’s existence. If you are convinced, I am sold on it as well. Thanks.

  285. Here’s the latest felonious profit revelation dated 12 November 2112:

    From the SLTrib website, just posted.

    Seems ole Warren thinks the CIA did JFK in, and bashes Obama.

  286. Here’s more on Jeffs revelation:

    And more FLDS news:

  287. Just glancing at Warren’s “revelation” I was reminded that Warren doesn’t write coherent English. Was his syntax and grammar always this bad, or is he just going downhill since he’s been in prison?

  288. Read the letter from Jeffs. Ahhhhhahahahah

    God isn’t speaking through this man. Warren Jeffs reminds me of one of the X mutants. The son of magneto … The mind bender.

    These dominions are so powerful now ….
    Drawing on the power of others to do their dirty work while lurking in the shadows.

    This is a direct set of instructions to the people who follow him.
    Its amazing that they are being allowed to reach eyes and ears.
    The master of the darkness is being allowed to tear people apart in
    the name of Holy God.

    If anyone is listening out there in the group that empowers Jeffs, ” Drop ”
    to your knees and pray for release from the delusion …
    Stand clear from anyone who is associated. Refuse to be used as a
    sacrifice and reclaim your direct connection to God. ❤

  289. Can you imagine what it’s like hearing this man’s ranting in this horribly mangled grammar for hours on end? I think that is itsself a form of torture. It would give me a brain bleed… maybe that is what has happened to everyone out there.

  290. Jeffs has (or used to have) impeccable English grammar skills. It’s just that he’s speaking for God, right? And God obviously moves and speaks in mysterious ways.

    Oh, if only Jeffs could get his hands on Joseph Smith’s seer stones (Urim and Thummim) and a decent hat, then he might deliver a “revelation” we could understand.

    Really though, it’s just a bunch of code and gibberish for the benefit of the blind who will not see.

  291. Lindsay’s article on the UEP meeting in Short Creek.
    “No one appeared to represent the thousands still faithful to Jeffs, who is serving a life prison sentence in Texas for sexually assaulting two girls he took as polygamous wives. He still controls the sect from prison, however, and is said to have warned people against coming to the meeting.”

    As predicted, the faithful warrenites did not show up at the mneeting.

  292. Here’s another opinion from a SLC TV station:

    Of interest is the last line of the article: “Shurtleff would like this resolved by the time he leaves his office in five weeks”

    IMO ole shirtless is in fantasy land if he thinks that the FLDS UEP problems can be solved in five weeks. Not likely dude.

  293. A Texan: The UEP mess has been going on for years. I agree that it being resolved in 5 weeks is fantasy land.


  295. Radaronline is a day late and a dollar short with his supposed exclusive on the rape bed photo. We all saw it long ago.


    Article on Merril, it also has dates for the others who are in jail. Looks like Warren’s parole eligible date is 2 years before Leroy. Not sure how that is possible since Warren received Life plus 20 years and Leroy received a flat 75 years.

  297. A TRUST does not exist or function where there is no Trust among the people. The FLDS people have chosen to live in a vibration that violates trust.

    Mr. Shurtleff …. Your bosses ( Us ) say this :

    ” Its not the government or any member of it’s responsibility to restore Trust
    in CCA/Hildale” You will not succeed !

    They have chosen their fate OVER and OVER again.
    You can only decide to enforce the LAWS on your books.
    Mr. Shurtleff , your job is ?????
    What would be interesting is to see you do it for a change.
    We do pay you … Right?


    Article on Merril, it also has dates for the others who are in jail. Looks like Warren’s parole eligible date is 2 years before Leroy. Not sure how that is possible since Warren received Life plus 20 years and Leroy received a flat 75 years.

    ProudTexan said this on December 1, 2012 at 11:47 AM

    PT in the case of Warren Jeffs, he gets credit for time served from the date of his incarceration Nevada, the day he was arrested, which means time served in Nevada, Utah & Arizona prisons is treated as have been served in the Texas prison system. The 75 year sentence of Leroy is a defacto life sentence. The result is Warren gets around a two year credit. In any case it is highly unlikely neither Warren or Leroy will ever see the light of day as free men, both will die in the joint, making that last trip outside of prison to Peckerwood Hill Cemetery. Their bodies unclaimed and forgotten.

  299. I guess A Texan, Warren’s is Life + 20 stacked which means he has to serve 1/2 of his life sentence and then 1/2 of his 20 year sentence before he is eligible for parole. I guess the jury should have made it 99 years instead of life and then he’d have to serve 1/2 of the 99 years which would be 49.5 before his 1/2 of the 20 year sentence started.

  300. In any case it is highly unlikely neither Warren or Leroy will ever see the light of day as free men, both will die in the joint, making that last trip outside of prison to Peckerwood Hill Cemetery. Their bodies unclaimed and forgotten.

    A Texan said this on December 1, 2012 at 2:21 PM

    I laugh every time A Texan mentions the Texas prison system’s Peckerwood Hill Cemetery.
    It sheds new meaning to me on the RIP eulogy. RIP – Rest in Peckerwood!

  301. Can someone clue me in about how to keep the Merrill Jessops straight? Is Frederick Merril, ex of Carolyn, Merrianne’s father?


  303. Yes CalGal, Fredrick Merril Jessop aka Meriil Jessop is Carolyn’s ex and Merrianne’s father

  304. Thank you Proud Texan. Are Meril Leroy Jessop and Raymond Meril Jessop closely related to Frederick Meril?

  305. They are his sons. They both married underage girls on the same day their father married their baby sister to Warren.

  306. Child abuse…a family affair. I wonder whether Frederick Merril is having any regrets about what he taught his sons, and about whether he likes the idea of his sons spending years (one, a virtual lifetime) in prison.

    Is there any evidence anywhere whether prison has changed any minds about their fake profit, and his twisted teachings?

  307. Wonder if the flds are current on their property taxes for the yfz. Apparently they are abandoning the facility so they may have no incentive to keep the taxes and maintenance up.

  308. I was reading some of the comments on the UK Mail Online story. Several, not knowing th whole story thought it was just horrible that Texas was going to evict all those poor women and children who had nothing to do with WJ’s crimes! BAD TEXAS!!! Others were spouting about religious freedom…the usual carp.

  309. From the article in bold print “… show the compound which once housed almost 1000 people is now near to empty …”

    so why jump to the conclusion that women and children were to be evicted?

  310. Here’s Mike Watkiss’s report on the recent events related to the FLDS & Warren Jeffs. Watkiss talks about the YFZ affair as well as ole Shirtless meeting in “short creek’.

    Of interest is the comment from the Mohave County sheriff:

    “Sheahan acknowledges that tensions are high along the border these days.

    “We are concerned, but we have people ready to go at any time,” said Sheahan.”

    Watch the videos at the above link.

  311. As far as I know the ranch taxes are paid, but I’m not 100% certain. I wonder if Paul Allred will stay on as the one who maintains the sewage and water treatment facility.

  312. Thanks PT.


  314. The full 20/20 special, youtube edition:


    That isn’t any dairy!!!

    SD should be scared, real scared.


    I think it will air this morning. If anyone can watch please do and let us know where this farm is. He doesn’t give a location in his report.

  317. PT the CNN link above states this will air tonight at 8 & 10 PM eastern.

  318. It was supposed to be shown last night 12/5, but got bumped for something else. Gary tweeted that it would be on this morning 12/6. Still can’t find a clip of it anywhere.

  319. Here is the AC Cooper link:

  320. ya’ll beat me to the CNN link….. business as usual with the FLDS, hmmm?

  321. last anon was me hhg

  322. Children shouldn’t get breaks from school to go play in orchards on fundraisers. (couldn’t helping be considered play?) Even us outsiders want there to be ‘No play’ for the flds children. And money earned couldn’t possilby used to feed them and buy school supplies never.

  323. Here’s an excellent news article from the SLTrib detailing more people leaving the FLDS as Warren Jeffs descent into madness continues.

    -Women are leaving the FLDS in masses as Warren the felonious profit becomes increasingly bizarre.

  324. Anon @ 3:51, your post doesn’t make any sense!!!

  325. I think Anon 3:13 was aiming for sarcasm and missed the mark, by a long shot. This is unpaid, illegal child labor..not playing…altho I am glad they were able to run about outside and have some fun in btwn pecan pickings. BUT, the man who hired them [who refused to speak to the reporter covering the story] is prob fully aware there are kids doing the labor. Especially since the reports are, this has been the norm for several years.It would be interesting to see just who got paid what, for the work. Ya know the women and kids got zilch!

  326. Also Anon 3:13….they don’t really go to school, per se…they go to hours of religious training. Why give them any education when they are trapped in a life that only offers breeding for the girls and expulsion for most of the boys. I’m glad to see, from the SLTrib article that PT posted, it seems more are wising up to the situation and making the move to get out.

  327. Here’s more on the SLTrib article:

  328. Note the sidebar in the Tribune article: Lorin Holm, previously kicked out of the FLDS, was awarded custody of his children yesterday.

  329. As a child :

    I was born in Colorado City in 1966. The community was a group of loving
    people. I knew that I was Loved by my parents and the environment was wholesome. The work crew on Saturdays was an opportunity to get a free lunch at Aunt Permilas and socialize with other kids my age. I did not realize untill well into my 30’s that I had been trained to know many things and to do them well. As a young contractor, I became an immediate success and was known as someone who ” knew what he was doing” I cared a great deal about the work I did, and took pride in accomplishing complex projects. I earned over a million dollars by the time I was 36. Anything that I wanted, I would simply go and get. The desire for integrity was encoded on my soul by my father. He personally trained me. He taught me ” systems” of doing things, and how to ” cut the fat ” out of time. I accomplished more than I ever thought I could, and I am still alive. ~ Thanks Dad

  330. Anon @ 3:21, I’m glad you had a great experience with the group, but you have to admit that the group today isn’t anything like what it was when you were growing up. Would you want your children to grow up there now?

  331. Here’s the actual CNN report on the Pecans.

    Thanks for posting the version with the ever-lovely Lindsay Whitehurst, A Texan.

  332. Getting outdoors and away of Warren’s anti-apostate, anti-gentile, and incoherent rants and indoctrination may be the best thing for these children, even if the temperature falls rapidly after dark.

  333. The Steed family from the 20/20 special was on Sister Wives tonight, as well as some Kingston refugees.
    The Steeds had Warren stickers on all their stuff, and they are supposed to pray every time they see one. They pealed them all off. It also said “keep sweet” on her bed frame. Weird stuff.

  334. Here’s the British view on the subject of Warren Jeffs:

    Wonder if the British know that Warren the felonious is of British ancestry?

  335. He is also part American Indian from his mothers side, according to Stephen Singular’s book.

  336. Feds case is staying in Arizona.

  337. Yes that is a slap down for the FLDS, their attempt at judge shopping was stopped. IMO this will insure a fair trial as Utah interest will have little influence.

    Read to court document saying no to change of venue:

  338. Good news, A Texan and anon y mous. Thanks for the posts.

  339. At least Dee Benson doesn’t get a chance to mess this case up

  340. Meh, don’t forget how easily AZ House Representatives Nancy McClain and Doris Goodale were bought off after the Senate passed a bill to dissolve the Colorado City Police Department. Here is the video of them pretending like all the problems are ancient history, all while keeping a straight face. They actually claimed that nobody has been kicked out of the Church in over 5 years. On camera, no less.

  341. I remember anon @ 12:22. keep spreading the word.

  342. Third Cousin could you have someone do a safety check on Shaggy.

  343. “More commerce there…” Where did that come from? The baseball games I played in are part of the Centennial group (actually softball). I hope this next summer we get some of those from William Jessop’s group to join us in these softball games. And I did play a game one year where these representatives were watching us play. And there is a little league that I believe is played at Masada. I intend to get my boy involved next spring now that he is eight. So, where she is coming from is confusing the Centennial group and the Warren Jeff’s group.

  344. “More commerce there…” Where did that come from? The baseball games I played in are part of the Centennial group (actually softball). I hope this next summer we get some of those from William Jessop’s group to join us in these softball games. And I did play a game one year where these representatives were watching us play. And there is a little league that I believe is played at Masada. I intend to get my boy involved next spring now that he is eight. So, where she is coming from is confusing the Centennial group and the Warren Jeff’s group.

    P.S. The softball league hurt this last summer because everyone was working out of town. More commerce there, huh.

  345. “More commerce there…” Where did that come from?

    The baseball games I played in are part of the Centennial group (actually softball) and are played at the public school, but has players from places other than Centennial Park. I have never seen an FLDS member play there, but I have seen a few ex-FLDS member play, but not very many. I hope this next summer we get some of those from William Jessop’s group to join us in these softball games. And I did play a game one year where these representatives were there watching us play.

    There is a little league that I believe is played at Masada Charter School. I intend to get my boy involved next spring now that he is eight. So, where she is coming from is confusing the Centennial group and the Warren Jeff’s group.

    P.S. The softball league was hurting this last summer because everyone was working out of town. More commerce there, huh.

  346. Some of my ancestors,back in the 19th century & further back had part American Indian ancestry too, in fact my brother said our grandpa on our mother’s side was partly Native American,though I can’t prove it,oh well, also there might Cherokee ancestry on our father’s side,how far back IDK, can’t prove that claim either, My family are just Caucasian looking,if we have Native American ancestry, I respect that !!!!!! So I’m not impressed by Stephen Singular’s claim in his book about WSJ…….. other-Anon

  347. “Third Cousin could you have someone do a safety check on Shaggy.”


    He deleted his youtube account a few days ago after posting a very, well, unusual video.


  348. Sorry , I got an error saying the server was down for maintenance.

  349. I just saw this, Walton, I’ll see what I can do.

  350. Oh dear, I see he has attempted suicide in the past. Not a good sign. Keep you posted. He lives in St. George, yes?

  351. Other Anon – my family claims we had the very first lamanite member of the church, my third great grandmother Peninah Shropshire Cotton. She was supposedly a half blood Cherokee with family out of Tennessee. She is my direct ancestor and was the second wife to Daniel Wood in 1846 in Nauvoo. She was apparently quite handy on the trek to Utah with her native knowledge of healing plants and herbs. Some of her sons looked a lot like her but we’re as anglo looking as possible now. Naturally at the time of her conversion and marriage, she was teenage hired help in the household.

  352. Yes 3C, St George.

    Speaking of youtube accounts, Mike Watkiss posted a video after the raid and I can’t believe I’ve never seen it before. He and Willie get after it, accusing each other of raping underage FLDS girls and what not.

    A must see.

  353. Thank you Third Cousin. I do believe he is in St. George. And if it isn’t too much trouble, if someone could check on Ruth to see if she has a way to get groceries.
    And if Ben Bistline is doing ok. I know that Isaac Wyler and the others have a way to get around.

  354. Mike Watkiss’s questions brought out the Willy that I remember.

  355. Utah governor’s budget does not include payment for Wisans. Article in SLT.

  356. Ah….Yes, Willie ‘Beluga’ Jessop in his good ole daze of defending WS Jeffs. I think Willy would disavow most of his statements in that interview with Mike Watkiss. Turns out all the talk about under-aged arranged marriages at the YFZ Raunch was true. Mike went on to receive official FBI award for his Investigative and undaunted work exposing the truth.

  357. Willie will disavow any statement that keeps him out of jail. He saw
    his buddies all heading to the slammer and quickly got amnesia.

  358. Who are Willie’s wives?

  359. They are sisters I think.

  360. I think Willie the Thug’s wives are Kristina and Cynthia, daughters of Millward Jessop Barlow.

  361. Shock and naw.

  362. That sounds right Anon @ 2:48.

  363. I think he has one more. She is the only one he claimed on public news after the texas raid. News reporters asked him if he had more than one wife and he said he had one wife and one child. He had developed amnesia about the largest part of his family back at Short Creek.

  364. Millward is kid of Clea Black and Joseph Israel?

  365. Willie’s family wasn’t ever at the ranch. The only family he had there was his sister.

    Kristina and Cynthia are full sisters, both daughter of Millward Jessop Barlow adn Janalin White. Between the 2 wives Willie has at least 8 kids. and Millward is the son of Clea Black and Joseph Israel Barlow.

  366. Never liked Willie because he was too smug and acted like a politician when answering questions, but then who in the group gives a straight answer? Have to hand it to Willie though – at least he had the backbone to eventually publicly stand against Warren Jeffs.

  367. I respectfully suggest ‘backbone’ had nothing to do with it. Mr. Jessop is simply an opportunist who calculated the best time to change his loyalties. He’s a thug who can be rented for money and power.

  368. Update on Brown family federal lawsuit: UT 2:11-CV-00652-CW-BCW
    Summary Judgment and cross motion for same still scheduled for Thursday January 17 2013 3:30pm. I plan to attend. I have it on good authority to witnesses will be presented except in the form of affidavit entered into evidence. I imagine it will proceed thru Friday but I have a friend checking into that. I hear there may be a gathering of our mostly like-minded souls the evening before.

  369. Additionally, the Darger family will be featured this evening on TLC at 8pm MST. I will watch – gotta know what you’re up against.

  370. Of interest, a SLC TV station is reporting that FLDS are preparing for end of world this week end:

  371. Here’s another report from same station saying police presence has been beefed up.:

  372. Jacquelyn LeBaron released from prison:

  373. Oh I really can’t believe Tarsa LeBaron is out after only a matter of months. Do ya figure she’s still got that list from her dad?

  374. Willie’s family wasn’t ever at the ranch. The only family he had there was his sister.

    Kristina and Cynthia are full sisters, both daughter of Millward Jessop Barlow adn Janalin White. Between the 2 wives Willie has at least 8 kids. and Millward is the son of Clea Black and Joseph Israel Barlow.

    Anonymous said this on December 16, 2012 at 9:50 PM


    I was referring to his apartment that he kept in Texas and Texas is where the interview was conducted. I knew he didn’t live at the ranch.

  375. He lived in an FLDS owned house on Nasworthy when he came out during the raid in 2008 and then when he came for hearings, trials and such until he was exed. After that he stayed in a hotel. To the best of my knowledge he never had any of this immediate family with him.

  376. Oh man, back on the W. Jessops – who is married to Ruth and Sharon Steed? Cause I thought that was William Edson Timpson Jessop. I cannot bear genealogical inaccuracy.

  377. Guess I better wear rain gear to the rapture dinner tomorrow night – according to WSJ the geisers from Yellowstone are apparently going to melt us here in Idaho.

    What does one wear to an end of the world dinner? White, Black, or Red? What will the Four Horsemen be wearing do ya think? Oh, right, probably prison blues. Actually, in my county you can tell exactly what you’re dealing with by what the inmates are wearing. Orange is your no big deal, blue still no big problem, yellow your’e gettin’ onto dangerous ground, but wearing white – don’t even go near them unless you’re behind bulletproof glass.

  378. Color coded criminals…. Hmmm, I never knew! Happy end of the world….or if that fails…Merry Christmas, all!

  379. 3C ,,WSJ had a new revelation very recently,which stated the “rapture” is going to be on 12/23/12–Joseph Smith’s birthday, he’s telling the sheeple to ready their backpacks with essentials including food & Yellowstone will erupt ash throughout the Noortwest U.S.,when it doesn’t happen he’ll tell the sheeple their faith wasn’t strong enough or it would have happened,just another to get (extort) money from the SHEEPLE !!!! They tell the end is near to ramp up more money going to WSJ & his con men…….You can’t fix insanity/stupid….LOL 3C which of the Johnson family are you descended from Leroy, Elmer or Price Johnson ????????????? other-Anon

  380. Ya know, OA, this is gonna make your head hurt. They’re kind of all related to me but “Uncle Roy” Leroy Sunderland Johnson came down from Warren Marshall and Permelia Jane Smith, and our people came down thru Warren Marshall and Samantha Nelson. I had a wonderful occasion to meet Stefanie Colgrove when I was thru the twin towns once – it was my first time there (about 7 years ago I think, been back many times) and I stopped in at the Merry Wives & asked her directions to the Isaac Carling cemetery (named for one of my ancestors) and she told me stories of the wife she came down thru – Permelia – who she said would have premonitions at Lee’s Ferry when folks would be coming down to cross. She also told me to take no mess from anybody trying to harass me at the cemetery. Price Johnson is some kind of cousin/uncle to us. Elmer goes all the way back to Ezekiel Sr. & Julia Ellis Hills.

  381. Really? I’m fixing to have people over for the end of the world tomorrow night and then I have to do it again the 23rd? It’s just too much for me. And what does one serve for and end of the word dinner? My family favors chicken wings on paper plates, but it seems to warrant more than that…. Fish caught from the Dead or Black Seas perhaps? Sturgeon because they’re prehistoric? Seven fishes and seven loaves?

  382. OA, I don’t know how old you are (I’m 43) but if you ever knew Sylvia Allred (1912-1992), wife of Isaac Carling Spencer, that’s my closest old relative in short creek. She was daughter of Ednar Jay Allred and Lucy Flake Wood, (actually featured in the first several pages of Wallace Stegnar’s “Mormon Country”). I believe she was the first woman arrested in the short creek raid in 1942 or so. Did time, pregnant and everything. They eventually fled to Mexico and my mother’s cousin Lucy married Verlan LeBaron.

    And don’t think I’m saying it’s not “stupid.” Just is what it is.

  383. MC, you gotta color code your inmates. How else are ya gonna keep track? They’re obviously nameless and faceless, they have numbers, but they’re long and how easy is that? Tongue in cheek. But still. I am shutting up and going to bed. How often do I say that?

  384. I think it’s 5 loaves and 2 fishes or maybe 2 loaves and 5 fishes, but the numbers were 5 and 2, not 7 and 7.

    As for the color, I’m sure the Horsemen will be in your basic black. To the Warren Jeffs’ end of the world party you should wear RED!!

    There there is the Will/Willie confusion. The Steed girls are married to the one known as Fugly, aka Uncle Will, aka William Edson Timpson Jessop. The Barlow girls are the only 2 wives of Thugly, aka Willie Jessop, aka William Roy Jessop. Fugly has more wives than just the 2 Steed girls although I’m not sure how many of them are out of the Warrenite cult.

    And finally, genealogically speaking, who are the ancestors of Lucy Spencer who married Verlan LeBaron?


  386. Not a very happy Joseph Smithmas in Short Creek this year.


  387. Anon at 8:10am; Thanks for the link. to this sad story. The warrenites keep coming up with more and more depravity.

  388. Oh PT, I will openly admit my bible ignorance – it always played second fiddle to the BOM and PGP in my household.

    Lucy Lydia Spencer’s (I think she still lives and now that Tarsa is out may still be in danger) parents were Sylvia (famous midwife) Allred’s parents: Ednar Jay Allred proceeds to us from Byron Harvey Sr. and Phoebe Irene Cook. Lucy Flake Wood (3rd wife I think) comes down to us from my uncle Peter Cotton Wood and Lucy Jane Flake (2nd wife, first was Launa Pace – both of Launa & Peters babies died during an epidemic in Woods Cross Utah in 1878, then they had 4 more during his first plural marriage, and all four of them died during an epidemic in Show Low Arizona in 1886 (they were “called” to settle the place). She lived out the rest of her life in the Mexican colonies caring for her sister wife’s 11 children and with Launa caring for her in her obviously difficult state. Lucy was interviewed by the WPA in the 1930’s. Peter and Launa both had died in Mexico not long before the interview.

  389. More revelations from Warren, or at least a new compilation:


    Fredrick Merril Jessop’s Appeal was dismissed for Want of Prosecution.


    And crazy Warren is at it again

  392. According to Warren the end of the world is tomorrow and will begin when the geysers at Yellowstone blow their tops.

    Will someone near Yellowstone please monitor this situation, although I thought the geysers blew their tops everyday!!

  393. All right PT, being perhaps the geographically closest I will try to monitor the geysers. But I believe most of them blow their stacks at least once and in many cases several times per day. Warren must really be up on his geological plate tectonics.

  394. I really wanted to visit Yellowstone. I’m guessing if I believe Warren I’ve waited too long.

    And I found the answer on the loaves and fish. It was 5 loaves and 2 fish. It is known as “The Feeding of the 5,000” and is the only miracle except for Jesus’ resurrection that is written about in all 4 Gospels. If you would like to read the story it can be found in Matthew 14:13-21, Mark 6:31-44, Luke 9:10-17 or John 6:5-15. Just take your pick. If you do read them, check back and let us know if all 4 instances report the story the same. You know how it is.

  395. After my computer has full restoration of united full power order of (I booted it up and it is tied to the electrical grid, in other words), I see Warren has put out more revelations.

  396. Assuming I don’t get lifted up tomorrow (pretty low chance) I will keep us posted on Yellowstone and try to read my Bible. I wonder if I got the 7/7 idea from seven brides for seven brothers. Wouldn’t that be funny?

  397. Warren Jeffs is Looney IMO, but surprisingly the Eldorado Success news paper is reporting that the FLDS paid their property taxes on YFZ. The paper speculates if this means that the FLDS plans to fight the seizure of YFZ by the State of Texas. The paper also reports that if the FLDS fail to contest state seizure by 24 December 2012 at 10 AM YFZ officially becomes property of the State of Texas.

  398. And, if they fail to contest, they may just use the time worn excuse of “we’re being picked on!!!” and try to get back into court at a later date. But….then again….this is Texas and they don’t seem to fall for the usual *&!@%$ tricks!
    Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays…or the greetings of your choice…to all.

  399. I know the number of loaves and fishes from a song by Sister Rosetta Tharpe.

  400. Here’s an article from Texas Monthly on subject of Warren the felonious:

    Now if Warren were to prophesy that he would end up in a pine box at Peckerwood Hill Cemetery, now that would be a correct and true revelation!

  401. More like 7 brides for Warren TC!!

    I don’t think it is that simple A Texan. If they fail to answer then the State can request a Default Judgment. That would take a while and isn’t automatic. Most of the time in Texas in the case of a default judgment the Judge usually grants one do-over which allows the party to file a late answer with a really good excuse why he didn’t respond in the required time. I’ve seen some pretty far out responses to the why, especially if they are representing themselves.

    The Eldorado Success also reported that Isaac Jeffs was served when he visited Warren in prison. It’s so nice to see that the family is keeping in touch. Wonder if Lyle was busy that particular Saturday.

  402. Yes, PT, but dontcha mean 7 times 7?

    I do have an atty who has worked with Wadoups on several cases calling court clerk to figure dates – keep you posted. SJ hearings are not usually ruled just by the bench – this is a potential challenge to the SC ti the Edmunds Act 1882.

  403. Judges usually take everything “under advisement”. It gives them a chance to have their clerks check the cases and see if there are any important cases left out of either side. If the Judge were to rule against the State it would almost certainly be taken up to the Supreme Court, might be either way.


    Apparently the Yellowstone volcanic system isn’t cooperating with Warren.

  405. Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays to all !!

  406. Should be chemist.

  407. Same to you, chemist, and i kind of liked the other spelling too!

  408. I guess I just disclosed that I’m still down here – no lifting up for me.

  409. Good to hear from you 3C. My sources in the Crick say they are all still there too.

  410. No lifting up/rapture for the FLDS sheeple must be a GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT to them ,I guess WSJ will require more money(extortion) from them,remember their faith wasn’t strong enough so they didn’t get lifted up/raptured LOL……..other-Anon

  411. Actually, the lifting up did happen; we just weren’t aware of it, and this proves Warren to be a true prophet.

  412. So all of still here are just SOL cement?

  413. Has warren been lifted up from his prison cell in Texas?? LOL.
    If not he is also SOL.

  414. The problem is, when prophecy fails, become simply become more adept at lying to themselves rather than admitting their religion was wrong.

  415. But AO and Cement, are things okay? No more busloads of youth leaving for parts unknown?

  416. Surely we would hear if something went wrong…..

  417. No reports of Warren going AWOL.

  418. New thread or bad time?

  419. Merry Christmas, everyone.

    They’re still in town. I took a drive out there while dinner was cooking. Folks were going in and out of both the storehouse and the birthing center, so it wasn’t just the Willies.

    Lot’s of young ladies riding their horses as well.

    The dairy store has a nice new sign on the roof, but I think the Merry Wives is gone.


  420. Yes, time for a new thread.. hopefully one without a picture of that decrepit dissolute old child molesting pervert convict. It’s time to focus on positive outcomes for the communities of Colorado City/ HIldale, etc.

  421. If the Merry Wives is gone… and the Four Horsemen are riding, we really are done. Where will I eat in Short Creek. Did they get lifted up?

  422. Continue this discussion of the Merry Wives and the Four Horsemen on the new thread,

  423. Unlike last time (having drinks north with Rulon and Harold Camping [RIP]), I’m still down here. Up tll now I can assure you no portion of Idaho has melted.

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