General Discussion #79 – What Are You Doing About It?

Continued from General Discussion #78.

A picture was discovered by the Mohave County Sheriff’s office in the school house.

This shows quite plainly that Warren Jeffs is still in charge of the group.

~ by FLDS TEXAS on August 15, 2012.

251 Responses to “General Discussion #79 – What Are You Doing About It?”

  1. Its obvious what they are doing about it, they are following him down the same destructive path.

    Lemmings here

    Lemmings there

    Lemmings ever whare

  2. I’m exercising my faith to keep him in prison where he will be forced to keep his filthy person off of our children.

  3. Guess the letter writing campaign didnt work out too well, the Feds came a callin after all.

  4. I’d like a date on that document, but WOW. The fill in the blanks style reminds me of something. Weren’t they posting his jail cell photo at the meetinghouse every week last year?

  5. Rumor has it that FLDS has been told to move from West Texas. Cement Plant is abandoned in San Angelo, they moved most of the equipment from Jack Daniels Inc east of Eldorado, tore down the tower and selling home in Christoval owned by Rulon Jessop.

    Chickens get to stay!!

    Check out all the computers in the house…

    Appraisal district link for house:

  6. Repeat in case anyone missed it…..!….?

    CNN report on Sheriff in Shortcreek

  7. Thanks, Amonanon, and the deputy specifically stated he hopes folks start coming to him for help when needed in the crick. He seems like a genuine trustworthy sort.

  8. There’s also one out there owned by Richard Jessop, son of Merril. Haven’t seen it go up for sale yet. As for the cement plant, it is still cranking out work. As recently as this week cement trucks were seen around town and also in surrounding towns working.

    3C, not sure of the date on the picture, but if it was found by MCSO then it would have to be after July 2012 when it was found. They didn’t start patrolling out there before that.

  9. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the smaller picture one of the many mug shots taken of Warren?

  10. Indeed thats one of his mug shots – but he has so many its hard to keep track. That is NOT the one where he got shaved when imprisoned though – that one is too creepy even for internal flds propaganda use!

  11. It’s the one where he has stitches in his lip.

  12. Stitches in his lip? When was that?

  13. Here is the stitches pic.

  14. The mark on Warrens face is supposedly from the tubes they placed when Warren was on his “hunger strike”.

    The deputy and sheriff Sheenan ( fly boy Johnsons buddy) also took an oath of their own to protect the “Church”. “The Church” isn’t named but I assumed it was the LDS. They say this oath after their boot camp training into the LE of Arizona. the details can be found on the HP/LE fallen officer memory history pages.

    Anderson Cooper and Co. need to spend a little more on their research department. CNN needs to bring back their message boards they had an awesome group of people who researched things and didn’t fall for such BS. Shame on AC

    Either the Feds are slacking in their “investigation skills” or they are part of the BS stock piliing team. It hurts to watch the sloppiness. and it hurts knowing that so many that I thought were above the decietful ways were/are part of it all.

    What would it hurt to have one REAL person stand up and take charge? and follow thru? Take some pride in the work and the badge they wear.

    Doran never lied. Deputy George never lied. Gary Engles told the truth as he knew it.

    Sam Brower knows more than he is saying.

    Bruce Wisan and Lindberg caved.

    I expected better from the Arizona AG.


  15. Walton – do you have a link to the HP/LE fallen officer memory history website you mentioned?

  16. I’d like to know what Wisan and Lindberg caved about and what you think Sam knows but isn’t saying.

  17. It will take me a little bit to find the link for the oath thing. But I will find it and will bring it back.

    Proud Texan – I really like Sam Brower. Please don’t take my post to mean anything bad. But I stand by what I say.

    Lindberg said that if those living at Shortcreek were to sign the leases that Wisan handed out – that the rules were – that they were suppose to obey ALL the laws. ALL of them. Polygamy is against the law..

    Wisan- With all due respect for this man and his team that has spent so much time following the money trail- he has alllowed room to be caught up in the hatfield and mccoy background. The lands and the monies were gotten thru ill gotten means and in no way should be dispersed back into the hands of those who played a role. No matter if it was within the last 10 years or the last 50 years.

    If those that left during Warrens years ( or kicked out) or those that left when there was the split are entitled to buy back (cough cough) the property that many were “swindled” out of back in the chicken egg pickin’ days, then he should go back even further and allow those that got swindled such a deal. or sell the lands to the Federal Govt for a Park Service for all those to enjoy. ( Ben Bistlines book and Utah and Arizona history before, during and after the move) The LDS/FLDS Polygamy John Taylor history also shows the history of those that were “forced out” in the interest of “the Church”. It is what it is. But to continue the BS isn’t Justice. It’s a take over. Only thing missing is the red vehicle.

    With ALL this being said- what REAL Govt. agency can ignore the Canada fact finding results and stand back to allow ALLOW all this to go on and on? It appears that they ALL can. How safe does that make one feel?

    I am not asking for a hero. But it sure would make me feel better if those Texas Rangers were the ones doing the investigating. AND it sure would make me (and others) feel better if I knew who they were and they weren’t ashamed in saying that they were going to enforce the laws.

    People need to look up and have faith in those that are there to protect.


  18. Still looking for the link on the oath taking. But I remembered that there was a part that linked back or mentions the term ” gadianton”. I remember fishing for more info about Gadianton stories here on this site.

    There was a story on history at the Tribune a couple of years ago and someone gave me a link to the memorial site. I followed thru with the rest of the links and found the oath. And then I found a story stating that those graduating from the Academy also take the oath.

    I will keep looking.

  19. I love the fill in the blank part for the days….that way people can be reminded often of just how it THEIR FAULT he is there…. HA! The harrassment campaign continues.

  20. Why would you stick a feeding tube through someones upper lip?

  21. It goes up your nose. And he fought it.

  22. I had to track back to June 2011.

    It is the Utah site.

    The 12 Paladins of Charlemagne



    Meetings opened with a prayer before the group explored the Book of Mormon stories of Korihor, the Gadianton Robbers, Alma and Mosiah, and King Benjamin, seeking insight into what LDS scripture defines as the proper role of government and discussing how they could be communicated in a “bilingual” manner to a secular audience.

    The principles the group settled on – free agency, accountability, equality, stewardship, marriage, unity, goodness, heritage, worship, safety and a sense of order – were not overtly religious.

    Since the new law enforcement has been in town there hasn’t been any talk about tresspassing, no fleeing brides, no building theft, no book burning, no wives ripped from the arms of their husband, no grain theft, and apparently Willie hasn’t even bothered to file a complaint against anyone.

    There also hasn’t been anything printed about anyone being arrested for back child support, welfare fraud, tax fraud, polygamy, child abandonment, child abuse, spousal abuse, child labor laws violations, tax evasion, money laundering, human trafficking etc.


  24. Here’s an interesting video from KSL on new book on subject of polygamy:

  25. Try again with the link:

    On subject of book called: 50 Years in Polygamy

  26. Here’s the link, for some reason it didn’t take, try again:

  27. Here’s more from the SLTrib on the book “Fifty Years in Polygamy”

  28. Here’s more on the new polygamy book that is mentioned in the KSL & SLTrib links.

  29. And the correct KSL link, posted wrong one above, my bad.

  30. Walton, you are wrong about Wisan. He will listen to any and all claims to a parcel of land. Nothing has been given/sold yet except the right to use the land for the present time.

    As for Sam, he probably does know more, but what he published is what he is willing to share.

  31. What are you doing about it??? Just ‘waiting’ … how ’bout you Warren?

  32. What are you doing about it??? Just ‘waiting’ … how ’bout you Warren?

    Anonymous said this on August 17, 2012 at 1:38 AM

    Warren is at peace. He supposedly said as much.
    ProudTexan- You probably will never know how much I wish I were wrong about Wisan. I held him preatty high on a pedastal all these years. I have great respect for the amount of information that he and his team were able to recover over the years. But, what has he done with the information? And who exactly is he working for?

    Muller (FBI guy) said that they were going to step aside and let the states of Utah and Arizona “handle it”. Shurtleff talked to the LDS Church about the things that were planned. Nothing has been done because the LDS Church is in my opinion “handling it”.

    Muller is a wuss. Would he give another crime infested organization over to let them “handle it”? Muller is a lazy wuss. Shame on him.

    Wisan was hired to protect the trust. The trust was/is a sham. A ponzi scheme that was started years ago. Looked good on paper. Just impossible to carry out when it involves so many people. Especially people that had/have no problem breaking the laws to acheive their goals.

    How do you suppose the other folks in Utah and Arizona are treated when they can’t make their house payments or they are finding themselves homeless because of unpaid taxes?

    How are other people treated that break the laws? Child abuse? Child negelect? Welfare fraud? Tax fraud?

    66 homes auctioned off in Nevada because of unpaid property taxes.

    And I know Sam can’t share any more than what he has. But he knows lots more than what has been said.


  33. I’ll tell you what I’m doing about it:

    – Called my senators and representative to request their maximum support to Federal efforts to bring and sustain the rule of law in the crick, and support the recent efforts by Arizona (even if their do-nothing legislature won’t disband the marshals).

    – Wrote the president to ask him to give attention to this problem, and specifically monitor and investigate the other sites (YFZ, CO, SD, etc) for human rights violations.

    – Wrote Gov. Perry to request Texas uses all of its powers (within the bounds of the Constitution) to limit the ability of its inmates to participate in ongoing criminal activity while incarcerated, and to review whether its still appropriate for certain inmates to be kept out of the general prison population.

    I’m sure this all won’t amount to very much, but I sure wanna be able to tell Warren I’m doing my part!

  34. Forced underage marriages of girls in Spain :

  35. What Am I Doing About IT?

    Giving full support to LE to quell this FLDS madness once and for all!

  36. Who knows what the lastest scoop is on Newell Steeds family? I heard he was branded a “wicked man” and all his living sons booted out. Does anybody know the details? I have family there and would like to try to look them up…. what about the remaining mothers?

  37. Warren did something about it – he bought himself a ticket to a LIFE SENTENCE IN PRISON.

  38. I wonder how you would count the days to fill in the blank? Would it be from when he was originally arrested or just from when he was given his life +20 sentence in Texas.

  39. Walton – I understand you wanting answers, but get real, no one owes you any answers. No one is under any obligation to act how you think they should act.

  40. wonder how you would count the days to fill in the blank? Would it be from when he was originally arrested or just from when he was given his life +20 sentence in Texas.

    ProudTexan said this on August 17, 2012 at 12:47 PM

    given the picture is from his feeding tube days my vote would be from Red Escalade day.

  41. What am I doing about it? Praying for spiritual, mental, physical, emotional and financial freedom from this monster for my family members still being victimized by Warren Jeffs.

  42. Walton – I understand you wanting answers, but get real, no one owes you any answers. No one is under any obligation to act how you think they should act.

    Anonymous said this on August 17, 2012 at 12:48 PM


    You are both right and wrong. No one owes me anything.

    Those hired to do their job to uphold the law and to follow Justice thru ARE under an obligation to not only me.. but to you and everyone else as well.


  43. I’m with ya Auntie.

    And hang in there Walton – this sucks for all of us. But at least we’re all trying to do something about it in our own way.

  44. What “school house” did the MCSO find this photo in? I didn’t know the FLDS was involved in “school” anymore.

  45. Reckon the counter is closing in on 2000 days in jail / prison?

    And how many jails / prisons?

    Vegas jail
    Point of the mountain prison
    Kingman jail
    Texas jails ( how many?)
    Huntsville prison
    Corpus Christi prison hospital

    I know I am missing some.

  46. For Texas jails, he was in the Schleicher County jail, Reagan County jail and Tom Green County jail. He was sent to Huntsville for intake and then to Palestine where he currently resides. The prison hospital was in Galveston.

    He has basically been in one prison or another since he was first picked up on that highway in Nevada.

  47. In a week Warren will have his 6th anniversary being incarcerated. And he has seen the inside of SO many different jails in those 6 years. Kind of like a prison road trip!

  48. Or maybe I should have called it a “jail junket”.

  49. I like it. Warren’s Jail Junket!!!

  50. “Travelin mannnnnn”

    Wonder if he likes that song? Just travelin without the Harley this time.

    hmmm Six years x 365 = 2190 plus two leap days = 2192 when he hits the anniversary..

    Gee it will be like Pioneer Day!

  51. 2192 days in prison for Warren, and all those prison widows praying for a new prophet – cuz this one isnt getting out!

  52. Anon 1:18, I imagine MSCO might have found the photo in the meeting house rather than the school house (I’m not talking the “old” school house), but I’m just guessing. The meeting house is where I understand they used to post the jail photo during Sunday go-ta-meetin’. But if Admin says it was the school house, then it probably was, even though it hasn’t been used for actual school in quite some time. And I hear ya on the irony.

  53. I just finished journalist Pete Earley’s 1991 account of RLDS renegade profit Jeffrey Lundgren, who murdered 7 of his followers in 1989 and had planned a raid on the Kirtland temple to usher in the Second Coming. Many interesting parallels, but the RLDS seems quite distinct from the sects that developed from the church that migrated West. The title cites “the mormon blood atonement murders” but IMO it was more of a sacrifice to show loyalty and appease God than the blood atonement idea we are used to in Mormondom. Lundgren had opened the first three of the seven seals and planned to ride all four of the apocalypse horses himself. He died by lethal injection trying to understand from his own brand of chiasmatic (some kind of Hebrew double mirror phrase focus) scripture interpretation how to open the remaining seals. Just FYI.

  54. I saw the CNN piece and it was the reporter who said it was found in the schoolhouse. He could have been mistaken or maybe the MCSO was mistaken about what the building was used for.

  55. TC

    I had no clue the RLDS had their own tragedy like that. Got a link?

    thanks in advance

    Oh here is one. It said Lundgren wanted to get back to early Mormon teachings, including you guessed it, besides blood atonement, he wanted polygamy.

    Too bad he wasnt muslim, then he might qualify for 72 virgins.

    Missed that opportunity by a long shot!

  56. Book review:

    “Perhaps as interesting as how the group came together is the disintegration that followed when the individuals realized they were facing murder charges.

    Their faith in Lundgren only seemed as strong as his ability to protect them; they squeal loudly at the trials. “

  57. ravelin mannnnnn”
    Wonder if he likes that song? Just travelin without the Harley this time.
    hmmm Six years x 365 = 2190 plus two leap days = 2192 when he hits the anniversary..
    Gee it will be like Pioneer Day!

    assuming Warren lives another 45 years then 2192 down and 16,425 to go!

  58. I love Travelin man by Bob Seger! Perhaps it is a little too positive for Warren’s jail junket theme song. Another one bites the dust or The Alan Parsons Project – I Wouldn’t Want To Be Like You

  59. Projection visits the projector. What we see visits us. What we Love Grows

  60. Here’s two links on Lundgren, a wikipedia and a news article:

    He was executed by lethal injection in 2006. Here is his final Clemency Report:

    Click to access Jeffrey%20Lundgren%20Clemency%20Report%20-%20Final.pdf

    Can’t make this stuff up.

  61. Straw that broke the camel’s back for many RLDS that turned toward fundamentalism was the church’s 1984 proclamation that women would be allowed into the priesthood.

  62. Maybe “Somebody that I used to Know” by Gotye?

    BTW the sltrib has a new article on the polyamy folder, looks like Piccaretta was granted leave by the Judge over the defense of the public money misuse trial by Darger and Barlow, they owe 100K plus and dont look to be paying the bills.

  63. Here’s more from the SLTrib on the lawyers walking away from the FLDS.

    This article has picture of Piccaretta, wonder what he tells his parish priest at confession, dose he confess his sins in helping the FLDS crime syndicate?

  64. thanks Chaps, love the video.

    I get that the lawyer doesn’t want to work without pay. But, one is retired and the other is still working. So what part of that is Indigent?

    | Define Indigent at
    adjective 1. lacking food, clothing, and other necessities of life because of poverty ; needy; poor; impoverished.

  65. Jake Barlow was recently ex’ed and David Darger’s dad and mom were too, this is why the flds aren’t paying anymore

  66. yes, I understand Warren conveniently exed the high cost members. Reminds me of insurance companies not covering high cost insurers. But, don’t understand why they are now considered indigent. Texas didn’t go for indigent for those fab-dozen in jail now. Don’t get why Utah is ok with calling them indigent. One has a job and the other probably has a pension. Just because they choose to give everything away previously to Warren should not give them an indigent break now.

  67. Is this Jake Barlow “the embezzler’s” son?

    Suspected drowning victim has been identified
    Posted: Aug 21, 2012 10:44 PM MDT Updated: Aug 22, 2012 07:50 AM MST
    By Tucson News Now Staff – email

    TUCSON, AZ (Tucson News Now) –

    Update: Officials have released the name of the 19 year old missing at Rose Canyon Lake.

    Jacob Barlow, of Colorado City, Utah, was swimming with friends Tuesday evening when he yelled for help. Friends tried to pull him from the water, but could not locate him.

    Law enforcement are on the scene this morning to conduct a search of the water. The decision was made last night by Pima County Deputies not to dive in the darkness and wait until this morning to search.

    They gathered at the Rincon Station at the base of Mt. Lemmon earlier this morning, to search the lake and surrounding area, an incoming storm may hinder that search.

  68. Guess they found Jacob Barlow’s body.

  69. Just think,it wont be long before the Flds family portraits will all have one thing in common.They will all be signed by criminal sketch artist.

  70. Jacob Barlow was Nephi Barlows son!

  71. How awful. Please, a moment of silence for whoever Jacob Barlow was. I am so sorry for all that knew him, at 19 the possibilities were endless. Let us all cherish our children. I know I need reminding that our time here together is finite.

  72. Jacob’s mother is the infamous Ellen Grace Steed Barlow Jessop. She’s the mother who’s 2 young daughters were at the ranch with Babs and Merril. And Merril told them it was none of their business when they would see their mother. Wonder where Jacob was during that time. He would have been 13.

  73. FLDS arent allowed to wear swimsuits, and hence 1) they dont know how to swim and 2) when they do its fully clothed, perhaps without the boots though.

    Try swimming in jeans and a long sleeve shirt on – not smart. This unfortunately isnt the first time this kind of tragedy has happened.

  74. After reading the story, he was swimming in a place where swimming isn’t allowed.

  75. You cannot possibly imagine the number of inaccuracies in this Huffington Post article on Mitt Romney’s mormon Mexican roots:

  76. Do tell 3C.

  77. PT read the Huffington Post article, and it dose have glaring errors such as tying Ervil LeBaron to Romney, also pure ignorance of US immigration laws.
    There was no illegal boarder crossings on Romney families part, because Romney’s grandfather married an American citizen, Romney’s dad George who was born in Mexico had US citizenship from his American mother and was able to legally run for US President in the 1960’s. A side note on President Obama who was born in Hawaii, even if he had been born in Kenya, because his mother was an American citizen, he could still run for President as the Mexican born George Romney did in the 1960’s, and as the Panamanian born John McCain did in 08.

  78. Her’s an interesting article from the SLTrib on the subject of “What are you doing about it? Hint read the writing on the photo at top of this blog thread.

    Gives a mention of this blog and quotes Sam Brower as confirming the picture came from “short creek”. Interesting comments as well.

  79. Thanks A Texan. I really don’t know much about Rmoney’s background except that they were in Mexico and so were the LeBaron’s.

  80. The Eldorado Success newspaper has an article questioning if the FLDS are planning to pull out of Texas, abandoning YFZ etc.

    Article appears on front page of paper, nothing posted on paper’s website yet.

  81. The most glaring and ridiculous error in the Huff Post article was the laughable assertion that the kidnappings of Meredith Romney or Eric LeBaron were somehow in retaliation for the Ervil LeBaron killings. I was appalled at dude’s lack of or low quality research. This is not the second grade, this is the news.

  82. The Romneys had almost nothing to do with Colonia LeBaron’s settlement at any time in history. They helped settle Dublan and Juarez (with the Hatches, Woods, Turleys, etc), neighboring mormon communities in Chihuahua. Alma Dayer LeBaron’s kids grew up in those communities prior to setting Colonia LeBaron.

  83. Here’s a report on rumors that FLDS are leaving Texas from a SLC TV station:

    Maybe they have second thoughts on building the statue at YFZ, perhaps, but the most logical reason, cash is running short with the “tithing” membership shrinking and they can’t afford YFZ anymore. Which raises the question of what will happen to FLDS properties in Texas.

  84. A Texan:
    I agree that a lack of funds is the most probable cause of an flds withdrawal from some of the Texas activities. They had huge legal bills to pay plus construction costs in Texas, Colorado, South Dakota, etc. At the same time the number of tithe/donation payer s was shrinking due to warren’s expulsions. They were on an unsustainable path.

    Warren’s father was a pretty sharp accountant, apparetly that did not get passed on to warren.

  85. The post above to A Texan was by me. chemist
    Computers do what you tell them to do, not what you thought you told them to do.

  86. Comment immediately above was by me, chemist

  87. not sure what the economy is like in Texas but, it seems like a really bad time to try to sell anything these days. Who would even want to buy YFZ?

  88. Who would want to buy YFZ? No one, most likely when the taxes aren’t paid it will be sold at auction. At action one could see it being purchased by a legitimate religious group such as the Southern Baptists or the Catholic church for use as church retreat or the Catholics as a monastery. Other uses if it becomes State of Texas property, perhaps branch campus of Angelo State.

    And there could be nothing of value, the FLDS in a fit of rage just might raze everything like the tower of babel that came falling down a few weeks ago.

  89. How about perhaps a hunting ranch? Hee hee.

  90. Egggzactly what I was thinking! And lots of ‘lodges’ for prospective hunters to stay in!

  91. I think the note was posted afterwards. but apparently the “saints” can’t even gaze upon black people now. This is in the local CMC grocery store in the crick.

  92. yehaaa

    WOWSER did they actually black out Bob Marley??? ha ha ha ha

    Guess so! But why even have it on the shelf? Guess its required per contract or something.

    They may lose a big vendor if they find out their product has been messed with.

    Here is the original look to the tea

  93. PS I guess they dont drink much of this at YFZippers, everything is probably home canned, what a life living behind fences.

    Poor kids!

  94. I don’t see the cooperative mercantile stocking that on the shelves in the first place. This has to be some kind of joke?

  95. Say what happened to the ampitheatre at the Zipper hole? Thought that might keep them entertained – perhaps now too shy to unveil the idolatry statuette of Wanker and young bride.

    The rendering WAS rather creepy – I am sure the real thing would bring nothing but bad press.

  96. TC: unlike a lot of Mormons, the FLDS is like, super ok with caffeinated beverages. Coffee is a major staple of most of the workers’ morning routine. if that’s why you’d think the CMC wouldn’t stock it.

  97. Ah, thanks Yehaaa.

  98. If I could just go one day without reading in my Idaho hometown newspaper that somebody prominently involved with children is a child molester. Just one DAY.

    A prominent child psychiatrist here (yes, that’s an MD, Richard Pines) was just indicted by the Board of Medicine. Apparently he admitted to law enforcement 15 months ago that he molested multiple children under his psychiatric and foster care, but I checked and NO INDICTMENT HAS EVER COME DOWN. I’m desperately looking back through every case I’ve ever worked to find out whether any of the kids I was ever responsible for in court were ever treated by this degenerate. So far not. But we’re talking over ten years.

    Somebody tell me that this crap somehow gets vindicated or I’M GONNA LOSE IT.

  99. I very secretly know this isn’t necessarily relevant here, but I’m just sure there’s some sort of connection somewhere. Here’s your link to the alleged degenerate:

  100. Okay, time to go to the shooting range, and right away. It really does help.

  101. TC

    I hear ya…. The sltrib just ran a story on a Dr. who killed his wife over 5 years ago and they just now arrested him. Its like “professionals” come with a get out of jail free card.

  102. “Answer them Nothing” is soaring above my expectations thus far.

  103. Thanks for the link, Stamp. Isn’t it funny how they all hear voices telling them to kill? And quite often it’s in Utah….

  104. At the property YFZ occupies in Schliecher County, who enjoys the subterranean mineral rights? Who’s got the O&G rights plus the mineral mining authorizations? Often these rights stay with the original land holder or the BLM.

  105. Prayers sent to friends in NOLA – stay safe and get out….

  106. TC

    In the comments someone posted a link to a deseret news story, which is quite long and detailed about this guy…. Amazing story how this guy faked it so long….

  107. Chemist, are you out there? I watched the earlier posted temple video. Is it real? Does it ring true? I became inactive as a young adult and did not take out endowments. My temple experience is limited to getting baptized for dead people as an adolescent and teenager. But another part of our family is Catholic, and toward the end it starts to sound like the Lord’s prayer and the Mass. If you don’t feel comfortable answering that’s okay, because even my own mother won’t tell me what happens in the temple, except that she says they don’t have to simulate disemboweling themselves anymore. But that’s recent. My mom did assure me that people do not consummate their marriages in the temple. But they did used to do that back in the day, at St. George, but in hotel type rooms in the temple simply because there wasn’t really anywhere else to stay. As long as it’s not part of the ceremony I think that was a convenience issue.

  108. I’m not Chemist, but I can assure you that it is an actual recording of the True Order of Prayer. I’ve done it many times. Only once or twice in Salt Lake, but it’s the same everywhere.

  109. This should look more familiar to you, 3C:

  110. TC:
    I prefer to not comment on the temple ordinances portrayed in the videos. The order of prayer is part of the cendowment ceremony. A reference to disembowlement has not been part of the ordinance for several decades.

    In my experience in several LDS temples for ~50 years consummation of marriage in the temple has not been practiced.

  111. thanks guys, for non-LDS/FLDS like me it is helpful to understand why some of Warren’s actions were done. I had no idea that consummation of marriage in the temple was once part of LDS. Warren and his little girls in the temple makes a little more sense. Still not right with little girls but, not so outlandish now.

  112. I am also very surprised the LDS church has not taken action to remove these videos from the web.

  113. not related to FLDS – but, thought it interesting that they compared this guy to David Kerish and Jim Jones – same as Warren/FLDS – seems there is a common fear of the unknown when folks go rouge from their past religious beliefs.

  114. sorry meant – rogue from their past…
    as:divert away from normal in a bizarre fashion (watergirl dictionary)

  115. Arizona newspaper reports on response of “short creek” lawyers.

    See they are unhappy, but that’s what you get when you follow Warren Jeffs.

  116. a very interesting video about what would you do?

  117. fyi, the edicted about getting rid of the dogs in cc was uncle fred’s idea not warrens. warren had a beautiful german shepards at the time.

  118. I agree with Chemist that I don’t think there have been consummations of marriages in Mormon temples for a very long time, and I’m not sure that it was ever common in most temples. The St. George temple did have rooms for newly married people. What they say on the public tour (at least they said it years ago when I went on a tour) is that they had these rooms available because people really didn’t have anywhere else to stay. They had traveled long distances along the “Honeymoon Trail” to get there, and there weren’t accommodation available to them.

    That said, there is a man who has told the story of his “Second Anointing” in and England temple. I forget which one. Second Anointings are a little-known and only rarely practiced temple ordinance administered secretly to a small and select group of husbands and wives. It is also known as having their calling and election made sure. That means that they will be exalted in the next life unless they commit the unpardonable sin, which I think is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. In that case they become Sons of Perdition. Obviously, they don’t administer this ordinance to anyone who they think is likely to commit future egregious sins.

    Anyway, in describing what happened, the man said that he and his wife traveled to the temple and that they reserved a room to stay in at the temple. I think, however, that the room is not in the temple, but perhaps on the temple grounds. He said they stayed in the “bridal suite.”

    Anyone who is interested in knowing more about what he had to say can google “anointed one” along with “second anointing” and find his story. It is somewhere on the website.

    There has been a discussion about this going on for the past few days at the website because “anointed one” gave an extended interview about his experience and the four-hour interview is posted online. As I listened to it, I found striking parallels to the situation of FLDS who have been kicked out and their families are alienated. After this man decided that the LDS church was not true, he essentially lost his family. Neither his wife nor any of his adult children would even talk to him about the reasons he had for disbelieving. They would not even look at LDS-approved sources to hear about what bothered him. While not divorced, he and his wife are living apart. She told him that it would have been better for her if he had died rather than lose his faith.

    Cult conditioning runs deep, and not only among the FLDS.

  119. Cult conditioning runs deep, and not only among the FLDS.

    CalGal said this on August 28, 2012 at 8:30 PM

    Amen, CalGal. Amen.

  120. I have been on many councils where LDS members have been excommunicated, disfellowshipped, etc.. In all cases the man/woman is encouraged to maintain their family role. That is, to not separate themselves from their family. Rather to keep the family together. Also, excommunicated members are encouraged to attend church and to stay active in the church.

    I am aware of some cases where a wife decided she could no longer live with her husband who had commited some egregious sin and initiated a divorce.

  121. Dan Jessop (1971 – 2012)

    Dan Matthew Jessop, Jr.


    Dan Matthew Jessop, Jr. “Danny” lost his life in a tragic car accident Thursday August 23, 2012. Danny, the oldest of twelve, was born April 8, 1971 in Hildale, Utah, to Muriel Cooke Jessop and Dan Matthew Jessop.

    Danny will be deeply missed by all who knew him. He is remembered as a fun loving, easy-going jokester and a trucker at heart. He loved spending time with his children, family and friends.

    He is survived by his wife, Theresa Ann Kupetz Jessop and their three beautiful children, Mackenzie Sage (11), Benjamin Michael (10) and Jacob RyLee (8) of Hurricane, Utah.

    Funeral services will be Saturday September 1 at 1:00 p.m. in the Hurricane LDS Stake Center, 677 South 700 West, Hurricane, UT. Viewings will be Friday, August 31 from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. in the Stake Center and also on Saturday one hour prior to services from 11:30 to 12:30 p.m.

    Interment will be in the Hurricane City Cemetery.

    In lieu of flowers, donations may be made at any Wells Fargo Bank to the Danny Jessop Memorial Account to help with funeral expenses.

    Arrangements are under the direction on Spilsbury Mortuary, St. George, UT (435) 673-2454. Family and friends are invited to sign his guest book at .

    Published in The Spectrum & Daily News on August 29, 2012

  122. Chemist, I know of many LDS situations in which spouses have been encouraged to keep the family together. I also know of quite a few where they were counseled to leave. That is particularly true in cases of “apostasy.” I think it is less common in situations such as adultery where the disciplinee is repentant and it reasonably appears that the marriage can be repaired.

    In the case I mentioned, my impression is that it was the wife, herself, who reacted as she did. But it also seemed that she was given plenty of support by the church to maintain that view of her husband. That said, I’ve only heard his side of the story.

    Mormons who leave experience a range of responses from spouses. But for those whose spouses choose the church over the relationship, the situation is similar to the experience of the FLDS. I think it is also common in other religions that teach they have the only true way. The FLDS are uniquely able to enforce the shunning, but it’s a matter of degree, not difference.

  123. Here’a an article from the SLTrib remembering the anniversary of the arrest of Warren Jeffs that felonious profit. Forever shall he sing those Texas prison blues!

  124. Really? The Helzer Group? I had no idea.

    Does anyone have sociological data on whether our (mormon) people are responsible for more freakish offshoots that other religions? If I stumble upon one more mormon offshoot sect of insanity I will lose count on my fingers, toes, and hair follicles.

  125. I just learned of this, am looking for a decent link to post so you can read about it.

  126. Right now it’s the best I can do. Another “one mighty and strong” and accomplices on death row.

  127. If somebody has it in them to respond to Ruth on texaspolygamy, god bless ya. It’s not in me tonight.

  128. This linh gives more background on the Helzer crime spree.

  129. Thank you, Chemist. I’m just 1/4 of the way through The False Prophet by journalist Claire Booth 2008 (I started it yesterday but it goes quick). Wow.


    A Texas Monthly article.

  131. Here’s another article from a Texas newspaper on subject of FLDS:

  132. Texas Monthly had a link back to here, noting someone posted the flds had a property for sale in Texas.

    Anyway, I am surprised I never picked up on the Helzer crimes – though there isnt much on the web about them.

    Justin Helzer pulled a Warny – got half way there according to FREEP

    “San Quentin death-row inmate Justin Helzer, convicted in 2004 of murdering five people, including the daughter of blues guitarist Elvin Bishop, tried to kill himself and is hospitalized in critical condition, sources confirmed Friday.

    The sources said Helzer apparently tried to kill himself by jamming pens in each of his eyes. Although he didn’t kill himself, the sources said Helzer did succeed in paralyzing himself on the right side and causing a level of brain damage that has yet to be determined.”

  133. Pens in the eyeballs? Yikes.

  134. While these guys are exmormon, it seems like they strayed far from the reservation and werent even trying anything fundy..

    Personally chalking it up to greedy manipulators who resorted to murder – and look where it got them. The pencil eye guy is blind, paralyzed and has brain issues but yes he is still on death row.

  135. Here’s an interesting article that appeared in the San Angelo newspaper about the sudden slowdown of FLDS activity at YFZ. Also says that similar slowdown of activity at Pringle, SD and Mancos, CO. Perhaps with all the exing of members and the need to pay lawyers for the DOJ lawsuit has put the squeeze finances need to pay for Warren’s megalomania.

  136. Couple of questions about Dan Matthew Jessop Sr. Does anyone know where he is now? Muriel was assigned to Art Blackmore (Carolyn’s dad) after Dan Sr. was kicked out. What happened to Muriel after Art Blackmore was kicked out?

  137. Muriel “Myrna” left Art and stayed with the flds She is still with them to this day. Not sure if she remarried again or not.

  138. An interesting story- Poor thing escaped the frying pan and right into the fire!

    A young woman who was forced to live with a polygamous clan in Utah throughout her childhood thought she found reprieve when she was adopted by a Washington man.

    However, rather than help her recover from her traumatic experience, her adopted father repeatedly raped and molested her.

    Read more:

  139. Interesting they dont say which “group” she is from…. but does it matter?

    We have seen child molestation from way too many mormon fundamentalist groups.

    Whats especially sad is that while the foster parent will likely go to prison, what of the polygamist daddy who raped her in the first place?

    Likely a hand slap and they took away his victim as punishment.

  140. Breaking news:

    Drew Peterson guilty of murdering wife. All news outlets.

  141. That would be wife #3 for Drew. Wife #4 is still unaccounted for.

  142. And he’ll never tell for several reasons… The case will go to Appeals Court [and hopefulllly be upheld] , he’ll NEVER admit to anything and he gets to keep smiling that smug ” I know something you don’t know…” smirk.

  143. A young woman who was forced to live with a polygamous clan in Utah throughout her childhood thought she found reprieve when she was adopted by a Washington man.
    mc1199 said this on September 5, 2012 at 9:15 PM

    Actually the foster parents of this poor girl adopted her while they were living in Utah. They later moved to Washington state after she was placed with this foster family by Utah authorities.

  144. Pieces of the Wikipedia definition….
    This form of therapy, including diagnosis and accompanying parenting techniques, is scientifically unvalidated and is not considered to be part of mainstream psychology …

    Attachment therapy is the most commonly used term for a controversial category of alternative child mental health interventions intended to treat attachment disorders.

    It has been described as a potentially abusive and pseudoscientific intervention that has resulted in tragic outcomes for children.

    It sounds like the poor child [now young woman] was in the hands of quacks!

  145. Yeah, thats a real recipe for failure. Hard to imagine it. But even harder to imagine that Utah probably let the original polygamist dad off with a stern warning and just took his victim away.

    Yet another story out of Utah, this time yet another Barlow, after getting busted for child molesting he gets a whopping 54 days then gets busted again, who could have imagined it?

  146. Barlow’s mugshot

  147. And…. he has a son who died in a fire. Gotta make ya wonder.

    “In loving memory of our son, brother and grandson, Shaun Jessop Barlow, 5, died Jan. 7, 1997 in Herriman, Utah, following a tragic fire.

    Born March 16, 1991 in West Jordan, Utah, to Lyman Kalmar and Kenda Sophia Barwick Barlow.”–SHAUN-JESSOP-BARLOW.html?pg=all


    Information on construction going on at the Pringle compound.

  149. Looks like a big hole in the ground…. more busy work filling it up. Looks like there is a pilot up there who will keep tabs as well, not to mention the Drones.

  150. Another house for Holy Cows? At least they aren’t trying to pass this new construction off as a “private Hunting Lodge”!

    I also found it amusing/disturbing that at the bottom of the article, was an advert for ‘Polygamy Dating” ! “Find women to join your family”!


    FLDS Bountiful story


  152. And….. the flds wonder why polygamy was found harmful and to stay illegal by one of the most liberal governments in the west.

  153. Hey Stamp, are you good with Google maps? Would it be possible to watch the construction up in Pringle that way?

  154. What am I doing about it ? Laughing my ass off about how idiotic you are Warren!! As for the picture found in schoolhouse or wherever it was, my brother says where it says how many days he’s been in prison,it should changed to how many years he will be in prison,he’s gonna spend a lot of time there,so I’ll laugh my ass off about how idiotic/stupid/insane you are Warren….LOL,LOL,LOL,,,,other-Anon

  155. Laughing is good for the soul other-Anon!!!

  156. Here’s more on the FLDS in Canada, with article asking are seeing the beginning of the end for Warren in Canada? IMO we are.

  157. 2204 days.

    What am I doing about it?



  158. I’m smiling with ya twist!!!

  159. Ditto Twist!

    BTW here is the location of the FLDS spread to the west of Pringle SD.

    Put in this lat . long address into mapquest or GoogleEarth and it will go right to the location. In mapquest choose “satellite view” in the upper rh corner. It seems that pic is clearer, regardless both pics look a year or more old.

    43.541225 -103.743667

    or try this first:

  160. OK it looks like you have to copy the lat long string, then paste it into the mapquest address search and make sure you select “satellite view” from the upper rh menu.

    In other news, despite continued construction, the will be over $250,000 in tax arrears as of this December on just this one property and tax sale proceedings will begin.


  161. 2205 days. Right there with ya TT.

  162. Dang, they are right up there by Mt Rushmore. I’m thinking about making a trip to Mt. Rushmore next summer. Wonder if they’ll let me bunk with them.

  163. Wonder if they are still in arrears. That article is from March 2011.

  164. Fortunately you don’t have a daughter PT so go for it.

  165. You can ask them, PT

    Treasurer: Dawn McLaughlin
    (605) 673-8114

  166. on twitter today:
    RT @HelgaZeiner ‘Section 132’ a thrilling fact-based page turner about a polygamous #FLDS sect. #WLCAuthor

    looks like the author or someone else is trying to stir up interest in the book since this has been re-twitter over and over again.

  167. I noticed that too, WG. And it accidentally led me to discover Utah mormon Dr. Dennis Corydon Hammond (psychologist) and his apparently famous “Greenbaum speech.” I really don’t know quite what to say. Google it. October 1993. I think I’m off topic.


    Excellent article by Daphne Bramham on the miscarriage of justice being perpetrated on the FLDS children in Canada. This should not be happening.

  169. 3C – “Greenbaum speech.” – really wacky stuff. probably is off topic but, I see a lot of similarities to FLDS as well.

  170. Not surprising!!

    I suggested that it be moved to Texas where real justice might be had.

  171. PT it sounds like the FLDS lawyers are trying judge shopping, getting trial moved to court & judge that would be more favorable to the FLDS. We all know the history of Utah courts. For true justice to be served, the case should remain in Arizona IMO!

    Read this court document from the SLTrib website:

  172. ATexan, not to mention a favorable jury (if they use a jury) that is sympathetic to FLDS

  173. Recommend that you check out Lindsay’s blog at the SLT. She has a short article about 6 former FLDS men suing for visitation rights to their children.
    The attorney for the men made a comment on the blog article pointing out some errors in a Sun story about the issue.

  174. Thanks chemist.

  175. I just have to mention the latest LDS caffeine thing. Here’s the trib article:

    When I was growing up you couldn’t get a temple recommend if you drank any caffeine and believe me, the asked you about it every time. And although this article states that regular coke and diet coke are available at the restaurant buildings on temple square, they most certainly were not when I was there for the Safety Net conference a mere two months ago.

    My aunt will be very pleased she no longer lives in sin.

  176. Thanks for the link TC.

    it is strange: I have never been asked about drinking caffiene, probably a good thing since I love diet pepsi and dr pepper. It appears to me that there is a huge difference in the mormon experience in Utah/Idaho versus the mormon experience is places like the midwest where the LDS are a very small minority of the population. In IN the LDS are about 3- 4% of the population.

  177. Love hearing the different perspectives chemist!

  178. Gonna be conducting surveillance starting at 6:30am tomorrow. I will require entertainment since I can neither read nor listen to the radio during these stints. But a little texasflds couldn’t possibly hurt. But don’t feel obligated. But I am on Mountain Time. 🙂

  179. Third Cousin:
    Later today or tomorrow I will post an email address here for you to contact me.

  180. That would be fun – I watched the ceremony video and have some questions about it. Thanks!

  181. This is something that you don’t see every day. One of Kody Brown’s wives is apparently going to show up to a fundraiser by Holding out Help.

  182. Wow, yehaaa, I might have to dust off my running shoes.

  183. I’ll probably be there, so come on out! or something. I don’t plan on running (lazy) but I will probably be getting a T-shirt. I like those.

  184. Maybe I will, it’s time I made my way that direction again, but I note it is in Draper not CCA/Hildale. All the more cousins to stay with.

  185. Appears the FLDS are still building at Pringle, SD, although article indicates a slow down possibly related to funding issues.

    Click the video link on the TV station’s website.

  186. TC: You can contact me at: ***

  187. She’s doing it as some sort of publicity stunt. My guess is that she’s going to say that not all polygamy is bad.

  188. Even if she does say that, PT, don’t you think that at least acknowledging that polygamy does go wrong sometimes is a good first step to helping remedy some of the issues?

  189. I hope she doesn’t make a spectacle of herself yehaaa.

  190. I got it chemist. Thanks.

  191. I’m not sure whether yehaa was still there during the post-Safety Net conference celeb polyg media interview frenzy. It was so appalling I vacated the premises immediately.

  192. Just saw the date of the 5K is 9/22. Can’t go, but will be there in spirit Yehaa!

  193. I was there for that, TC. But, apparently these people have some kind of media presence. I just hope that it can help HoH in some way. HoH has tried to remain as neutral as possible to the whole “is polygamy right or wrong” debate, and focus on helping those that need/ask for help. If that includes helping people still inside the communities, then they will do that. All I know is that they’ve been super busy lately, and can use any donations they can get.

  194. I hope it helps too yehaaa. I know they have helped a bunch and so has the Hope Organization down in St. George.

  195. New thread?

    I heard Bruce Wisan won his trespassing trial today in Colorado City.


  197. This article deals with the subject of child brides in England :–long-parents-dont-tell-anyone.html

  198. Ben Winslow on the twin towns lawsuit:

  199. “Move it to Utah…” FLDS are trying their version of justice to try to get where there is a chance the ruling will go in their favor.

  200. But of course cement, although they are bleeding money right and left. I’ve heard the storehouse is bankrupt and the cement plant down by the ranch isn’t operating much anymore. The businesses that were using FLDS labor in Texas aren’t using it anymore. There isn’t any money coming in and a great deal going out.

  201. If the reports of mass construction at Pringle are true (I have no idea) the money is flowing out by the hundreds of thousands.

  202. But in Pringle they have to get a building permit for each building and tell what size it is going to be, then there are inspectors who go out periodically and check on what they are building. From what I understand they currently have 3 buildings being erected. So far nothing as massive as the temple or amphitheater they built in Texas.

  203. Wonder if Warren will want to knock some of them down after they are erected too.

    Think of all the fun he could have! A real Chinese fire drill cult-ure club.

  204. I don’t care who you are, sometimes there’s nothing more satisfying than a wrecking ball or some dynamite. When I’ve truly had it I like to go out in the desert and shoot up breakables. But then I just have to clean up my mess afterward, which kind of takes me down a notch.

  205. The SD tower does have quite a resemblance to the one they knocked down in Tejas.
    Perhaps they built the TX one as a test; to see if they could construct a tower that was indestructible.

  206. If I remember correctly, the one in Texas wasnt started until around the time of Warren’s trial. The one in SD has been there for a while. I think it came first.

  207. The Watchtower at the Zipper ranch was sure in an odd place… not near the front, but perhaps on a rise in the interior to watch for insiders who may attempt to escape or perhaps to also watch for incoming LE off in the distance.

    If you can imagine living on a cult compound thats fenced in with a guard tower with tinted windows looking at your every move – how creepy and NO THANK YOU.

  208. I am sure they tell their folks that the evil outside will be clambering to get in once the end comes so they are being protected by being watched.

  209. Well Warren is supposed to adress world leaders at his new amphitheater, too bad he will have to do that in spirit form because it would have been fun to watch.

    Maybe Rulon will come back and address the Zipperites and give them a heads up on what to do next?

    He was always good for an end of the world plan.

  210. I’ve often wondered if they are going to put up the statue and then using a sound system of some sort pipe his voice through the statue


  212. Holding out Help’s 5K was pretty fun. I got there late (didn’t run), so I didn’t catch the media circus with Mrs. Brown. probably for the best. here’s the news article

  213. The Browns are telling everyone polygamy is free choice but all the flds guys in prison didnt offer their child rape victims any choice.

    That is the real face of polygamy.

  214. I just obtained the September 6th Safety Net meeting minutes – apparently Joni Holm quantified the current number of FLDS leaving Short Creek area and moving north to SLC. I can watch the meeting broadcast, but if anybody knows what those stated numbers were it will save me some time.

  215. whoever said they saw or heard the Bob Marley’s flavored teas at the store in CCA having the label cut of of his picture is right, the other day I went to the store by where the eggs are & saw they cut his photo off of the label,THAT’S TRUE, YOU CAN’T FIX THE SHEEPLE’S INSANITY….LOL,,other-Anon

  216. Perhaps they fly off the shelf a lot faster without the Dreadlocked Rasta.

  217. Just got Craig Jones’ book “A Cruel Arithmetic Inside the Case Against Polygamy”. It is big and has little print so it may take me a while to get through it.

  218. State of Utah seems to have grown some balls. They have finally filed a Motion that says that the Lawrence ruling had nothing to do with marriage, it had to do with sex.

    Read the Motion

    If Kody and his “wives” would just live together in a big group this wouldn’t be an issue. It is the fact that he is holding himself out as married to 3 women at the same time.

  219. It’s interesting that the Sister Wives motion cited above is signed by Jonathan Turley, a DC lawyer and George Washington U. professor often seen as a consultant on TV news programs.

  220. This is the State’s Memorandum and you are right Tom, the attorney for the Sister Wives is Jonathan Turley.

  221. PT, where did you buy Craig Jones’ book?

  222. From the Canadian publisher, Irwin Law. I think if you google that you can get their website and go from there. It took about 3 weeks to get it.

  223. Just had a talk with some YFZ neighbors and they say all is quiet on the Eldorado front. No new work on the amphitheater. Not many coming or going.

  224. Listen at 10:48. Winston saying he doesn’t want to believe it’s true that young girls were taken across the border and given to old men as wives. Winston is so stupid. He was one of those marrying young girls. His brother Mac took his 12 year old daughter and 12 year old granddaughter across the border to marry Warren Jeffs himself.

  225. Utah Supreme Court Ruling comes down tomorrow:

  226. PT ,you must remember that Winston was part of WSJ’s group,so no change in HIS BELIEF SYSTEM in marrying young GIRLS,collecting MONEY(tithing) or getting new CONVERTS, You can’t fix insanity & KARMA has no deadline,KARMA will catch up to Winston sooner or later!!!!!!other-Anon

  227. Winston’s group will take inbreeding to another level. Isn’t it mostly just his relatives?

  228. I’d say that 90% of Winston’s group are his wives and kids although I think his kids are rejecting polygamy. I know at least 2 of his wives have left recently and taken their children with them.

  229. Aren’t they now affiliated with the Neilson/Naylor group? (The Neilson/Naylor group is a Salt Lake based faction that broke away from the CPark group after Marion Hammon’s death.) If so, there might be some intermarrying between those two groups. Both groups are still pretty tiny, though.

  230. No, they are not.

  231. Ooops, sounded more sure than I actually am.

  232. “Ivan Nielsen, leader of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the Kingdom of God, a Salt Lake valley church, said Blackmore suspected for quite a while that Canadian authorities might be targeting him.

    “Winston has been doing a good job taking care of the people,” he said. “Everybody knows his lifestyle up there. For them to come in now and say something about it is ridiculous.”

    Blackmore has associated with Nielsen’s church but does not hold an official position, Nielsen said.”


    Also, from the Nielsen/Naylor group’s page on wiki:

    “The church has also formed a close relationship with the Bountiful community of polygamists.”

  233. Thanks. Okay.

  234. I think the wives that left aren’t with any group. Both have monogamous relationships. As for the kids, they are all seem to be doing their own thing.

  235. 3C, is it safe to assume that Ivan Nielsen is related to Wendell?
    -Are either of them related to Leslie? 🙂

  236. My understanding is that Ivan and Wendell are brothers.

  237. Ivan and Wendell are brother’s.

  238. Word on the street is that any FLDS women who have had occasion to visit a gynecologist or doctor for female problems for any reason, has been invited to leave.

    Warren appears to be introducing his non-producing older women to his retirement program, since it has been such a successful money saving program for his old men.

  239. just posted on Twitter:
    Paul Murphy ‏@PaulMurphysLaw
    #Utah Supreme Court upholds Judge Lindberg’s decision by ruling #FLDS waited too long to file lawsuit over the UEP Trust.
    Expand Reply Retweet Favorite

  240. Ben Winslow ‏@BenWinslow
    After years of “answer them nothing,” #FLDS finally sued over UEP takeover. Today’s ruling essentially says too little, too late. #utpol
    Expand Reply Retweet Favorite
    41m Ben Winslow ‏@BenWinslow
    For years after the ’05 takeover of the #FLDS’ UEP Trust, Warren Jeffs told his followers “answer them nothing.” @fox13now #utpol #Utah
    Expand Reply Retweet Favorite
    49m Brooke Adams ‏@ThePolygamyFile
    @PaulMurphysLaw: #Utah Supreme Court upholds Judge Lindberg’s decision by ruling #FLDS waited too long to file lawsuit over the UEP Trust.
    Expand Reply Retweet Favorite
    50m Ben Winslow ‏@BenWinslow
    BREAKING NEWS: #Utah Supreme Court sides w/ state in #FLDS land war, says Warren Jeffs’ followers waited too long. @fox13now #utpol
    Expand Reply Retweet

  241. Yes, Wendell has a full brother Ivan, sons of Ezra and Arvilla.

    Ha, ha, here is Leslie’s NYT obit.

  242. here is the ruling:

  243. This is good news. Maybe they can now get on with giving the individual pieces of property back to the residents.

  244. great news, now the state can force those that don’t convert from that very unpopular religion\cult off the land and out of those nice big homes

  245. When those who have settled with the UEP in the form of land / real property, is it theirs to re-sell as they desire or is it forever land?

  246. here is the SLtrib article:

    A final decision on the trust’s ultimate fate, however, rests with the federal 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver, where the Utah Attorney General appealed a federal court ruling last year handing the trust back to the sect.

    In that landmark decision, U.S. District Judge Dee Benson ruled the takeover violated the separation of church and state and the trust should immediately go back to the sect.

    Following a legal showdown between Benson and the state court judge who had been overseeing the case, the 10th Circuit put on hold any return of the trust until they make a decision.

    The appeals court then asked the Utah Supreme Court to decide whether the 2010 dismissal should bar another judge, such as Benson, from ruling in the case. Tuesday’s opinion is the answer to that question. The case now goes back to the 10th Circuit.

  247. Court-appointed trust administrator Bruce Wisan said he’s “very pleased” with the decision. If the 10th Circuit does decide to keep the trust with the state, he said he’s aiming to follow through with a plan started before the FLDS filed suit in 2008 to break up the communal property trust and distribute the assets to individuals. He would also sell off some property to repay $5.6 million in taxpayer money the state will provide to help pay past-due bills associated with running the trust.

    “Certainly there are some complications and issues with that,” he said. But ultimately, “I would like to distribute and get out of Dodge.”

    As for the sect, FLDS attorney Rod Parker said the group’s argument that the takeover violated the constitutional separation of church and state could still gain traction at the 10th Circuit, as it did with Benson.

    “We’re going to meet with the leaders of the community and decide what steps to take next,” Parker said.

  248. Please continue on General Discussion #80, thank you.

    — Admin

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