General Discussion #78 – Feds on the Farm

Continued from General Discussion #77

See the Federal Suit here:

http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/hce/documents/coloradocitycomp.pdf

US Dept. of Justice Breifing on Lawsuit against Colorado City, Hildale, Twin City Water Authority, Twin City Power, etc. here:

“WASHINGTON -The Justice Department filed a lawsuit today against the town of Colorado City, Ariz.; the city of Hildale, Utah; Twin City Water Authority; and Twin City Power alleging a pattern or practice of police misconduct and violations of federal civil rights laws.”

http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/2012/June/12-crt-787.html

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on July 3, 2012.

311 Responses to “General Discussion #78 – Feds on the Farm”

  1. One has to ask.

    Didnt Warren Seer this coming?

    His Revelator broken again?

    Was all this hidden in his Prolific Prophesies?

  2. Gotta read his response to the DOJ – – sure it got his attention.

    Maybe if he huffs and puffs hard enough it will blow something down

    – like his credibility.

  3. So is this going to trial any time soon? Any known dates if so?

  4. The DOJ thingy? If so the answer is probably not any time soon.

  5. I can keep us posted on the timing of federal civil court events.

  6. Yes, PT I meant the DOJ thingy.

    And thanks, TC. I for one would appreciate hearing about the timing.

  7. As the DOJ action is freshly filed, and the FLDS have the habit of trying to stonewall with motions, at least of late, its likely it will run at least a year.

    But hey they are out of money and still paying old lawyers and barely at that, being in the hole as it were, so who knows, they may not drag it out so long.

    In OTHER news that has legs, not to change the subject from the FLDS but keeping in line with creepy, evil cults, is the story on Scientology and where THATS going.

    Expect it to hit the national news in a much bigger fashion than the FLDS at least until the final divorce of TomKat.

    1) Ruport Murdoch is tweeting on them giving them all kinds of unwanted negative attention

    2) Turns out the leader, David Miscavige, was tasked with finding a “suitable wife” for Tom and he was above the task – giving it to his wife Shelly to fulfill.

    3) Turns out Shelly got disappeared the same year TomKat married. No one has heard if she is dead or alive. The do have a house of hiding they call “The Hole” but no LE has done anything to find her.

    4) David Miscavige is Tom Cruise’s BFF

    5) Shit is gonna hit the fan at Scientology

    6) Been reading some articles apparently by ex Scientologists. They infer that David went to the pliggy side, giving him motive to disappear his current wife Shelly who didnt like the idea.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/how-scientologists-lured-katie-holmes-to-marry-tom-cruise-2012-7

  8. The whole Scientology thing is a cult just like the FLDS is. It’s all about brainwashing your victims.

  9. http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2012/07/04/news/local/doc4ff3e7574d257764349946.txt

    This is excellent news. The Mohave County Sheriff is going to start patrolling the CC area and make sure that the Marshall’s aren’t harassing the general population.

  10. PT

    Indeed its a cult, grown quite large now too. They are similar to other cults and fundamentalists who ostracize ex members – they are saying her divorce from the church is going to be harder than the divorce from Tom.

    I just hope it opens peoples eyes.

    Its great news that Mohave County is finally putting in a presence – I’m not sure Washington County Utah would be of much help – seems they back them up most of the time anyway.

    The Fed action makes Utah look pretty stupid.

  11. It is very concerning that the leader of Scientology’s wife is missing.

  12. I read a book, a few years back [sorry, but I cannnot remember the title] about Scientololy and Tom Cruise and it was pretttty darn scarey. The similarities btwn the two cults was pretty startling.

  13. “Some have claimed that she’s in hiding while others have said she died from cancer. The most sensational and sinister rumour is that she was sent away to an undisclosed location for behavioural correction.

    This world in which Cruise is so heavily involved threatens to destroy his carefully nurtured image of a regular guy who has a whole lot of charm.”

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/entertainment/scientology-leader-david-miscavige-the-third-person-in-cruise-holmes-marriage/story-e6frf96o-1226417547603

    ———

    This really smacks of the FLDS – sending wayward women off to some odd location for correction…. in this case, no one cares, or checks?

    How do they get away with this nonsense?

    David went on their HONEYMOON?

    At the same time his own wife got put away in some manner. I hope this cult gets taken apart too – what creeps!

  14. In the meantime, more heads are rolling in the Crick, even though the meetings have stopped. John Wayman had been getting his next directives during his Saturday visits with Warren. Inquiring minds want to know what his physical and emotional status is in that Texas jail right now. It would be disastrous if were to die there. Martyrdom would be his ultimate legacy and the surest proof to his followers of his god-on-earth standing. He should spend a good long life alone in that cell.

  15. I think he is physically well nomouse, otherwise we would have heard about it. As for his emotional status. He was looney when he went in, so I’m sure there is no change there.

  16. When does Mohave Co SO start their patrol? The artice wasn’t specific, just that funds had been allocated…. Soon I hope.

  17. Couple of crickers in the pokey per the purgatory site

  18. Think they are “boys” not in favor with the ruling thugs

  19. It looks like both were picked up on commitment orders.

  20. The more I think about it, the less I buy the whole “Warren Jeffs as a martyr” theory. The next prophet could easily minimize his teachings by declaring that the Warren Jeffs regime was nothing more than a test from God.

  21. The sheriff has arrived in Colorado City, AZ with his deputies. Here’s a report from Mike Watkiss:

    http://www.azfamily.com/news/Theres-a-new-sheriff-in-Colorado-City-161577205.html

    If Warren’s goon squad cops try any monkey business, they will find themselves looking down the barrel to a sheriff deputy’s gun.

  22. Thats a good point. Who will the next prophet be?

  23. Let the games begin……! And I’m sure there will be some games! I hope the people are not afraid to make use of the ‘gift’ they’ve been sent by the AG!

  24. Another report on the cops showing up in the Creek:

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/07/colorado_city_now_has_cops_tha.php

  25. Anon@7:58, Rachel’s point is exactly why Warren will be a martyr. He hasn’t really named a successor, just had various and sundry people who are getting the word to his people while he is “unjustly in prison” (according to the FLDS people). Also, some of those who might try to step up as profit are as bad or worse than he is.

  26. Smithholm reporting breaking news that Warren plans on going out JJ style

    “Breaking news. Sources find that Warren Jeffs will plan his death, and ask thousands of his followers to die with him. Due to the intense nature of the 4th generational brainwashing, it is feared that thousands of people will follow Warren Jeffs in death. Mass suicide. (I’m from Colorado City).”

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54432045-78/case-law-utah-wives.html.csp

  27. I saw that too stamp. Troubling indeed.

    PT, How could they be any worse? Is Lucifer himself going to assume the prophet position? hahaha

  28. In reference to Stamp’s post at 9:50 AM, It certainly is a possibility, perhaps the reason for the amphitheater of the absurd, a place for the hardcore followers to gather for the lifting up Jim Jones style. Both the tower and amphitheater appear to be close to completion, all that is needed is the idol of Warren to be placed at the amphitheater or on top of tower to complete the projects IMO.

  29. Somebody please confirm or deny. This kind of talk is really scary.

  30. Rumor has it that one possibility for a replacement is into beastiality.

  31. With the male / female ratio being what it is out there, its probably not that uncommon.

  32. Well just when the FLDS warm up for what appears to be the scariest year for them ever, a simple hollywood divorce pulls back the blinds on an even larger cult that has riveted the nations attention.

    http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/katie-holmes-tom-cruise-and-scientology/

  33. So how is Warren going to pull that off being in jail? He won’t have the means to kill himself will he?

  34. Staying alive while his followers commit mass suicide would be warren’s sacrifice for his followers. He stays in this evil world while his followers are in paradise.

  35. Apologies if this has already been discussed. I’m glad that Arizona is stepping in to patrol the Arizona side of the Creek and put an end to the abuses of local FLDS police corruption, but what’s being done on the Utah side?

  36. Nothing is being done of the Utah side. Same ole crap from Utah.

  37. I doubt the LDS and Utah state officials would allow the FLDS to go through with a mass suicide. As cynical as it sounds, a FLDS mass suicide right now would draw a lot of negative media attention at a time where Mitt the Mormon has a serious shot at U.S. president.

  38. Prisoners do commit suicide fairly regularly.

    Wow, chemist, a theory I had not thought of. Even more scary.

    Formerly OM&S, I don’t believe the LDS or the State of Utah can prevent anything. They would have to go in and declare martial law and then we’re right back to the devastating PR move of 1953 Short Creek. People are gonna do what they’re gonna do. The only hope is for us to try to get the sheeple to come around via accurate information.

    Let’s hide and watch for some trusted informants to bring information to us, which I can tell you is in the works. I deeply share everyone’s concern, but let’s assume we shouldn’t panic at this point. We are reaching out to those who know what might be going on.

  39. Even if Warren tried, he would probably be caught. He is in protective custody and has already tried to kill himself while incarcerated. If it’s true and they catch wind of it, he will be watched like a hawk.

  40. It also doesn’t make that much sense appointing the frisky fifteen and then imploding the potential offspring.

  41. If Mitt is elected — ALL FLDS prisoners will probably be pardoned during his term — he would have that power if elected — former flds

  42. I hope both ever happen.

  43. DRAT!!! ***NEVER***

  44. I noticed in the pilots new photos that the Temple has received a lot of recent landscaping, including scores of trees. That seems like an odd thing to do for a Temple that has already been desecrated. I have 2 questions for someone who knows more about Mormon Temples than myself.

    1) Can a desecrated Temple be rededicated?

    2) Doesn’t the prophet have to be present for a Temple dedication?

  45. If Mitt is elected — ALL FLDS prisoners will probably be pardoned during his term — he would have that power if elected — former flds
    mick said this on July 8, 2012 at 5:46 PM

    Wrong there Mick. Romney’s LDS, and the FLDS hate each other. Romney was raised outside of Utah culture in Michigan. Romney was educated at Harvard and like President Obama graduated from law school there. Romney has spent all his adult life living near Boston, MA. Romney had a vacation home in Utah during the 2000 winter Olympics which he later sold. If any thing, Romney is likely to come down even harder than Obama has with the DOJ lawsuit.

    IMO if polygamy were legalized for consenting adults, such a move would be more likely under President Obama as part of a move to appease the gay rights community, with also believe that consenting adults should be able to marry outside of the traditional one man, one woman marriage..

  46. I noticed in the pilots new photos that the Temple has received a lot of recent landscaping, including scores of trees. That seems like an odd thing to do for a Temple that has already been desecrated. I have 2 questions for someone who knows more about Mormon Temples than myself.
    1) Can a desecrated Temple be rededicated?
    2) Doesn’t the prophet have to be present for a Temple dedication?

    The FLDS make up there own rules and change them frequently based on the current whim of Warren Jeffs.

    So most likely the FLDS have returned the temple of doom to service, IMO as the brothel of god.

    Realize that the Mormon temples of the LDS have nothing to due with the FLDS.

    Here’s a link to Barbara Walters news segment on heaven;

    The last several minutes of the interview are with a LDS leader at the Manhattan Mormon temple in New York City.

    Here are more pictures of Walthers in the Manhattan Mormon temple in New York City.

  47. A Texan said this on July 8, 2012 at 8:29 PM

    “The FLDS make up there own rules and change them frequently based on the current whim of Warren Jeffs.

    ——— The LDS Church over many years have also changed many of their own rules and changed them based on various public pressures — NOTHING is any different from the two … same MORMON theology … a MORMON is a MORMON is MORMON.

  48. I don’t think the gay rights community buy into the polygamy is just the same argument. I think that’s something that the traditional marriage crowd throws at the gay marriage people as an insult. “What’s next? Polygamy? Marrying your dog?” etc. But I’m no spokesperson for the gay rights community. I do agree that a lot of liberals (and I am one but obviously don’t agree) think that decriminalizing polygamy would have no negative consequences and that we shouldn’t judge other people’s cultures. This is the result of ignorance, IMHO. Since I relate polygamy with oppression of women, I really don’t understand a bunch of feminists arguing for legalizing it. Perhaps they know polyamorous families and think that’s what polygyny is. Wrong!

  49. Here’s the latest update on the UEP/Bruce Wisan struggle over who pays.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54335599-78/trust-wisan-flds-state.html.csp

    IMO it’s a waiting to see how the federal appeals court rules, and the Utah Supreme court rules.

    I hope both courts rule that the FLDS doesn’t get control again over the UEP assets.

  50. thinking about the DOJ, now is a great time for them to step in giving all those that have been exed over the last year. But, sorry to read above this doesn’t cover those that live in Colorado City? Is there a different utility/water district for Colorado City?

  51. sorry above was from Watergirl and looks like I got my cities confused. So Colorado City is now under mohave county sherrif but, HIlldale is not?

  52. Mohave Co does not have any jourisdiction outside of their County, let alone their state. CC has always been in Mohave Co jurisdiction, they have simply stepped up enforcement and set up a substation.

  53. The state & county borderlines have been one of the most appealing, elusive, and confusing factors in Short Creek history. It’s amazingly problematic. CCA is in Mohave AZ, Hildale in Washington UT. Folks used to literally run back and forth across the border to avoid LE.

  54. so what DOJ is suing handles both cities’ utilities? Or just part of the problem?

  55. The DOJ filing is a civil filing, not a criminal filing. That DOJ filing would apply to both Colorado City, AZ and to Hildale, UT residents. The Mojave County AZ sheriffs’s dept is stepping up patrols and manpower in Colorado City, AZ. I am not aware of anything being done by Washington County Utah LE for Hildale, UT.

  56. I think they have a joint agreement, where if a crime is witnessed or reported, the MCSO can respond in hildale.

  57. http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/07/colorado_city_someone_buried_a.
    There is no proof of who did this, but it is pure brutality.

  58. As much as it pains me to say this, given the current trajectory of the FLDS combined with the doctrine of blood atonement and other historic acts of Mormon cruelty, I’m relieved that it was a cat and not a person.

  59. In Texas, a sheriff in one county can detain a suspect while in another county. I’m pretty sure that if a crime is reported in Hildale that the MCSO can respond and keep the peace at least until a WCSO official can get there.

  60. They’d have to be cross deputized in each state, like the CC police.

  61. and it would still be out of their jurisdiction, but the could respond and keep peace until WCSO showed up.

  62. Them damn animal abusing FLDS, well read the comments some peeps say the F in FLDS stands for something else

    http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2012/07/colorado_city_someone_buried_a.php

  63. Betcha cant watch the whole thing

  64. Here’s another news media video on this story, the cat didn’t survive.

    http://www.rightthisminute.com/video/cat-found-buried-concrete-arizona

    Those who say the FLDS aren’t violent IMO are wrong. This kind of violence against animals often leads up to violence against people.

  65. I hadnt seen the earlier post on the same story – its going viral… huffpo has it too, and I expect it to make some serious rounds in the media.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/09/cat-buried-in-concrete-colorado-city-az_n_1660320.html

  66. Lord have mercy, news has travelled across the pond

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2171279/Man-abandoned-polygamist-Mormon-cult-finds-kitten-encased-concrete-yard-threat-sect-leaders.html

  67. Yeah. Remember the dogs incident AT?

  68. Now that I think about it, abuse of animals often precedes violence against humans, but in an individual setting, not a group setting, I’m quite unqualified to state this, can anyone speak to it?

  69. Across the pond? Oh man. Grandma (mom’s mom) disparaged us all over the country as an army wife, showing people the scars (in reality horse and barb wire related) from the mormon “horns” she had removed. Everyone believed it. It was even reported in the newspapers. In her later devout years she lamented the damage she lent mormon reputations (she “apostatized” for a while). It really is true that folks thought mormons had horns, especially in the south. If anybody knows where that myth came from, chime on in.

  70. Going to far.

    Cat killings. Blood atonement.

    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2003-07-03/news/0307030241_1_cat-bugsy-salt-lake

    While these stories are hitting the media outlets, I am sure this will bring about the history of Blood Atonement practices in the CHURCH.

    Including the continued “oath practices” of today.

    For those leaving the FLDS and sliding over to the CPark, Allreds, Kingstons or the LDS. All the talk about Blood Atonement etc. won’t be lost on those who know the history.

    When you can’t move forward, turn left or right. A person will just exist.

    It isn’t right.

    Walton

  71. http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no81.htm#BLOOD%20ATONEMENT%20RITUAL

    As the stories are being circulated about the cat killings in the twin towns.

    There are all the other stories that people are still trying to ignore.

    Walton

  72. See what happens when the flds kids don’t have basketball, bicycles, etc. They turn to animal torture. A really sad and deplorable mess.

  73. While visiting my grandparents in Utah as a youth, I once saw their 7yo LDS neighbor throw a kitten like a baseball from one end of his property to the other. There must be something in the water.

  74. TC, I always thought “Mormon horns” was a derogatory metaphor referring to them as devils, but I never thought anyone actually believed it.

  75. Couldnt have been kids who did this to the kitten/s – mixing a bucket of concrete – dumping it down a pipe which opening was about 8′ off the ground…. Perhaps an older kid but I am thinking an adult with help.

    (father – son project?)

    In the scheme of polygamist feuds, its by far NOT the worst, I think that goes to the LeBaron group who killed around 25.

    However, they didnt have kitte torture videos.

  76. Ah cement, I think some people did believe it. When grandma left utah, she went to Texas and other southern states until after WWII. She said when people heard she was a mormon and told her they had heard mormons had horns, she would show them her scars and say “yeah, look where I had mine removed.” I think she did it for spite at such a stupid stereotype rather than to disparage her own culture. She did feel bad about it later though. I think she’s pretty funny. Up in the celestial now.

  77. I agree Chaps.

    Andrew Chatwin sure seems to have the worst luck coming across all the “wrongs” that those darn FLDS seem to be doing.
    1. The kitten video
    2. The screaming “lady” who was arrested.
    3. The kids playing at the park and the fleeing FLDS

    I am sure there is more.

    One group making another group look bad. Makes them all look bad. imo

    Walton

  78. Here’s a report from the LA Times about Issac Wyler, talks about other abuses of “short creek cops”.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-apostates-20120710,0,2364112,full.story

    Don’t think abusing a helpless kitten is going to run him off.

  79. Above comment from A Texan

  80. I really like Issac Wyler. And it is my opinion that some people are being placed in ugly situations that shouldn’t have to take place.

    Oz – The BS with the cats and the Blood Atonement threats best stop. If you can’t get your job done without these tactics- your slipping …. AGAIN. If you need help, just ask. my number is the same.

    Walton

  81. Tip of the Iceberg folks

    I have been living in CCA for the last few years. The behavior I have witnessed from the children is extremely desensitized towards all life.
    I have seen horses beaten and starved. I took the shovel from the hands of an eight year old who was pounding away on the head of his mare and asked him if he would like it if i did that to him. Soon after that the animals
    ( A mare and her colt ) disappeared. They have ducks and chickens and goats who now serve as targets for their bow and arrows, stones, various other misc. experiments that include being thrown into the air, chased and kicked brutally. It makes me sick. So many times I have wanted to go find their dad and kick his ass around the block several times, but he is never there. There are only three young mothers and they don’t do anything, they look defeated. I picked up a hitch hiker and asked him where he was going. He said ” The Hell out of here” …” I nearly got hit on the freeway .”
    He told me that he had seen lots of towns but never felt anything as evil as his walk through Colorado City. ” There is something there that is just plain evil “.. I tried to explain what was going on with the stress on family’s and the fighting etc.. and he listened but reinstated ” I wont ever come back here, I can guarantee you that “… I believed him.

    The latest mantra here is most dire.. The directive to arm themselves and ready themselves for a war against the world. All of Mr. Jeffs ramblings are encoded messages to them. It is serious folly to allow this communication to continue. They are invoking a murderous spirit here and I can feel it. The states have waited too long to be effective. The good people have long left and the few people not associated are constantly under terroristic siege.
    No One in their right mind would bring a family here. The Cat encased in concrete is nothing compared to the mountain of evil intention that has been cast from here.

    I know it may seem hard to believe but you must understand that these people know nothing of your world and have no reference outside of this community and the program they have been force fed.

    This is going to get INCREDIBLY UGLY…

  82. This is going to get INCREDIBLY UGLY…
    Anonymous said this on July 10, 2012 at 9:05 PM

    Hope that doesn’t happen in “short creek” or here in Texas at YFZ. The FLDS still seem to be spending massive amounts of money at YFZ. We in Texas wonder what Warren Jeff’s & FLDS end game is? How will this effect the innocent non-FLDS people of Eldorado,Texas? Why YFZ? What is it’s purpose now that Jeffs is in prison, with no chance of leaving prison except in a pine box?

  83. The latest mantra here is most dire.. The directive to arm themselves and ready themselves for a war against the world.

    Anon 9:05 said the above.
    I wonder if anon knows he’s quoting something that David Koresh, the prophet of the polygamous Branch Davidian cult said shortly before Waco?

    This is a long read, but one will find many Warren Jeff like actions & behaviors on part of Koresh.

    http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/not_guilty/koresh/1.html

    Like Jeffs, Koresh is a self appointed profit, like Jeffs he has spiritual wives, some of whom 12 or 13 years old. Like Jeffs, Koresh see himself as the final prophet before the second coming. Like Jeffs, Koresh separated his followers from the outside world. Like Jeffs, Koresh became increasing bizarre as time went by.

    We in Texas don’t want the ” This is going to get INCREDIBLY UGLY…”

  84. I am so glad to see the issue of animal cruelty in Colorado City finally come to light. I grew up in the neighboring town of Centennial Park and as a child I was sickened by stories of the abuse that went on in both cities. The attitude I encountered from most people (adults and children) was apathy or amusement. They didn’t and don’t value life. One particular story that has haunted me for years happened to a friend of mine who lived in Colorado City next to an FLDS family. Her cat had just had kittens… The neighbors took them all and buried them up to their necks in the dirt, then ran over them with a lawnmower. This is just one of many instances that I have witnessed or heard of. My hope is that these crimes will finally be taken seriously and that the new law enforcement will start investigating the living conditions of the animals in both Colorado City and Hildale. The innocent have suffered silently for too long.

  85. Here’s a report from a SLC TV station on animal abuse by FLDS.

    http://www.ksl.com/?sid=21204011&nid=148&title=flds-faithful-blamed-for-concrete-cat-torture-caught-on-camera&s_cid=featured-3

  86. Is there anyone that can explain to me what difference it makes to shove people from one side of the street to the other?

    It’s still the same street.
    Still the same people.
    Still the same rule book.

    If you follow thru on those youtube videos(crazymomof5), you’ll see kids riding 4 wheelers without helmets.
    Some of the passes being made looks like they are within a few feet of going out into oncoming traffic.

    No basketball. But they have 4 wheelers and horses.

    People planting cats like potatoes. WTH?

    People watching people planting cats and abusing animals and or kids and no one speaks up? And then when they do nothing is done. Can’t blame it all on the local cops. Where are the social workers? where is Paul Murphy and his band of “it’s a lifestyle” choir?

    If I had a big enough place, and enough money, I would ask people to come here. How can a person live amongst the crazies and not be affected?

    The “crazies” I am talking about are the ones who know better and stand back and watch. The people who are doing such things can get help. And go to jail until they do get help. But what excuses are given by those who stand by and watch?

    And they say that taking the kids out of the home enviroment is a bad thing? Really?

    I would love to have Isaac Wyler as a neighbor and a friend.

    This is just messed up!! Really messed up.

    Pushing them from side to side isn’t going to help. One side could be doing things to make the other look bad. No one knows for sure. No proof.

    It’s wrong. It’s all wrong.

    Walton

  87. So its also made the Utah TV market. KSL is owned by the LDS church too – I applaud them for exposing this nonsense even though it arose from letting these people do whatever they want.

    It really is an interesting social issue. Note, the anon post a couple above.

    While it sounds extreme and hard to beleive, when you take all the incidents into account, it makes sense. They live in a bubble and have no care or even knowledge of what the outside world thinks of this behavior.

    Some of the other documented misbehaviors include:

    – – A Jessop who slit the throat of farm animals in front of school children on occasion to “teach” them … (how to slit a throat in cold blood?)

    – – – Killed anothers horse

    – – -plowed over growing fields of others

    – – Shot Ruth in the face with a pellet gun

    — Killed one of her children due to defects, as documented by her in “Banking on Heaven” video

    – – – Threw other dead animals and kittens on Wyler’s property, per video record

    —- Killed every dog in town and buried them in a pit outside town, under orders from Warren – as documented in the DOJ lawsuit

    — Destroyed and disposed of books meant for a community library as documented by various news agencies

    — —- ——- This not counting all the human abuse against men, women and children.

    While this behavior is status quo out on that commune, its illegal and dispicable behavior.

    And chances are it’ll get worse before it gets better.

  88. FLDS Texas owner/operator: I understand not allowing some posts. But could you at least do me the favor and let me know why?

    Walton

  89. Yet they all seem so harmless upon leaving the group.

  90. From the SLTrib on subject of FLDS abuse of animals:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/54470817-185/concrete-someone-chatwin-colorado.html.csp

    Warning graphic material.

  91. Good stuff. More officer footage, responding weakly to the book burnings, and a nice creepy snippet from one of Warrens sermons.

  92. The story of animal cruelty is starting to make the SLC media, from the left leaning SL Weekly.

    http://www.cityweekly.net/utah/blog-24-7923-video-alleged-animal-cruelty-stokes-tensions-in-colorado-city.html

  93. To Anon 8:07, good video, would agree with most of what you say. As to President Obama, he has answered in the form of the DOJ lawsuit, look at earlier posts on this blog, that lawsuit originated out of Washington, D.C., not the local US Attorney’s office where such a lawsuit normally would originate. Attacking President Obama for inaction is wrong, he’s the first US President to allow federal intervention of the FLDS, the DOJ lawsuit.

    Attacking Romney because of his LDS faith is also attacking Sam Brower who is also LDS. It should be noted Obama ally and supporter Sen. Harry Reid of Nevada D is also LDS member.

  94. The Occupancy

    We had a Trust paid in full by sweat of brow and back.
    We had the Love community where helping hearts beat as one.
    We had a Family growing strong. We prayed together in the light.
    We showed our strength integrity. We followed God on high
    We gathered up embraced in Faith . The work was fun.
    We stood aside the broader path and held the Rod so tight…

    In 66 I came to earth to have an earthly look.
    The language then was clean and clear
    Every day was new and fresh.
    I built a hut in a tree and dreamed the day when I was BIG
    Dad came driving up the road. I ran to see my favorite .

    When I was young

  95. Issac and Andrew are involved in this…gotta keep the pot stirred!That is why they will not find those involved!

  96. 3c, I like your Grandmother. People will believe anything. Especially back then. Foks deserved what she told them. I remember my Grandfather telling me that when the war of the worlds radio program in 1938 told everyone Martians landed on earth that he spent many hours trying to explain it was just a Halloween joke. He was a preacher and people were coming to him to confess their sins and get right with God because they thought it was the end of the world. He said it gave him plenty of sermon topics that month.

    I am very sad to hear of the abuse of animals. The long list of harm to animals makes me very sad.

  97. Anon @ 12:17, that was then, this is now. All I can say is absolute power corrupts absolutely. That has been proven out time and time again in history.

    Anon @ 3:34, yes Isaac and Andrew are involved, it happened on Isaac’s property to a project Andrew was working on. The only pot being stirred is that the adults who have a god complex are corrupting the minds of the children.

  98. A reward has been offered for information leading to arrest person or person responsible for the FLDS animal abuse. See SLTrib article:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/54478701-185/buried-kitten-case-cement.html.csp

    Unfortunately IMO the ones in control of the “short creek cops” did the deed. Which means no arrest or real investigation. Wouldn’t surprise if it was one of the “short creek cops”

  99. Mike Watkiss report on animal abuse case.

    http://www.azfamily.com/news/Ariz-authorities-probing-kitten-cruelty-case-162148315.html

    From article: “Mohave County Sheriff Tom Sheahan, whose office took over policing duties from the all FLDS Colorado City Town Marshal’s Office last week, tells me his deputies are now investigating.”

  100. Too bad there’s no reward offered for information leading to the take down of anyone involved in drugging and incarcerating Warrant’s wife and dragging her back in, or any other of the human atrocities around there.

    I’m not sayin’ I don’t feel for the cat or that it wasn’t abject cruelty or terrorism. Just sayin.

  101. Watergirl, our grandparents might have found each other interesting 🙂

  102. “Too bad there’s no reward offered for information leading to the take down of anyone involved in drugging and incarcerating Warrant’s wife and dragging her back in, or any other of the human atrocities around there.”

    Amen, 3C. And little similar outrage and action for the young boys driven out and abandoned with no resources when their parents are still legally (let alone morally) responsible – and no repercussions for them. And I’l a cat lover too, but I do find it fascinating how many people empathize more with animals than people, even when they’re similarly innocent.

  103. The Eldorado Success paper has published a new edition with photo of YFZ tower, appears top finished. Has white round structure with flat roof, roof area has railing, appears to have windows around structure, IMO an observation tower. Top of roof appears to have access hatch. Don’t think it’s going to be a base for statue at this point.

    http://www.myeldorado.net/

    Suspect tower is not to watch for outsiders, but to watch those on the inside.

  104. The difference is that we have graphic video evidence of the torture of the cat … hence the outrage. The money to protect the abuse of animals is already in place too. (Guessing the FLDS is shocked at the value we outsiders place on the lives of animals. ) Whenever someone comes up with video evidence of people being treated badly (rare), it has gone viral too. The video of the police manhandling the women as they were falsely arresting her is probably why the DoJ stepped in. What people in the cities need are more video cameras.

  105. other-Anon here, My brother whose lived in Hildale/CCA for nearly 50 years says this type of abuse of animals isn’t uncommon here,he remembers Cooke & Jessop boys ,40+years ago putting cats in burlap bags & drowning them,so it’s happened at least that long ago,most recently his neighbors are Jessop’s & their kids beat their horse with sticks,etc,chase their cow into his yard & put 1 of his dogs in his chicken coop which killed some of his chickens,they grab ducks & geese on the neck,twirl them in a circle & let them fall to the ground, as for abuse of horse to Isaac Wyler, ThugWilly (Willy R. Jessop) was the one who had people or himself run over & break horses backs or would run off cliffs,all ThugWilly did is change his allegiance to William E. Timpson Jessop & their both just doing it for money (tithing) so nothings changed that much, you can’t fix insanity !!!!

  106. Smith Holm who has posted here and on SLTrib blogs created the following youtube video expressing his opinion on the FLDS abuse of animals. Warning is graphic, also so the do nothing attitude of the “short creek cops” in the first portion of video.

  107. Jackie sounds better than all of their holy music combined.

  108. The story even made to TV stations in Houston,TX.

    http://www.39online.com/newsfix/kiah-cat-found-buried-alive-in-cement-20120713,0,1144072.story

  109. Reward increased for info:

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=21234774&title=over-7k-in-reward-money-offered-in-kitten-cruelty-case&s_cid=queue-2

    Reward now $7500.

  110. So they are forwarding the tips to CCPD instead of MCSO?

    eek1

  111. At least the news story knew better and gave the number of the Sheriff’s office.

  112. Good luck finding out who put kitten in pipe,CCPD won’t tell,,,continuing on about animal abuse, my brother who lives here in CC/Hildale,has 2 dogs the male was run over by kids or adults on ATV’s, he survived but has a broken right shoulder, yet can still walk,this dog is 14 years old,,,the female had bad hips,& it’s believed she was kicked hard or ran over on her back legs,she can drag her back legs behind her, so it’s not uncommon for FLDS adults/kids to abuse or kill animals of non-flds people,,,, I saw SmithHolm’s newest video,he says for outsiders to knock on flds peoples doors & show them “gentiles are not bad” good luck with that, flds people believe “gentiles are wicked people”,not any luck getting flds to talk to “gentiles”,you can’t fix insanity ….other-Anon

  113. Thanks, SmithHolm, for starting a “kindness revolution”. The family that I have there in CC/Hildale are not stupid, but have been grievously deceived over four generations. Since I can’t be there, I sure would appreciate any random act of kindness that is shown my loved ones there or in Texas, or in the surrounding communities. Believe me, when they do come out of the darkness of Warren Jeffs’s leadership, they will remember those acts of kindness and it will have a profound impact on them. Thank you to all those who demonstrate caring and loving acts of kindness to “the least of these, my brethren”. God Bless You, whoever you are.

  114. I agree completely, as long as kindness revolutionaries don’t get shot, poisoned, animals killed, etc. I’m sure we have family in common Auntie Janet.

  115. I’ve had to bypass all the animal discussion. I cannot even watch the late night TV ads for abused/injured/deserted animals, let alone read about the poor kitten involved in this tragedy. Give me an autopsy to review…fine. Murder photos…no problem! Animals…I cannot stand it. My “let’s do the same thing to the guy who did this” thoughts kick in.

  116. Cant we all just get along!

  117. That’s the whole frustration in dealing with the FLDS.It’s the sorry-ass GROWN men that cause children and animals to suffer.They are the ones that put the bad ideas in the children in the first place.

  118. Woman speaks out against polygamy

    http://newsroom.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/02/wife-speaks-out-against-polygamy/

    Comments?

  119. Chaps,, I commend Kristen for leaving polygamy, the AUB was started by Rulon Allred/Joseph Musser & followers,they split off FLDS in the early 50s, however what’s the name of this website ? texasflds.wordpress.com or fldstexas,their abuses are much more obvious/apparent than other groups, just watch tv or the the blogs here or newspapers,I for one will focus my attention of the flds ran by WSJ, since some of my family is still following his BS, that’s important to me,I find no interest in the AUB….other-Anon

  120. The keys didn’t just fall out of the sky. They were passed down. And it started with Joseph Smith.

    John Taylor passed out the keys.
    Kingstons has them
    Rulon Jeffs had them
    AUB has them

    Warren followed the book. He took it to a different level.

    For many who have followed the group or has family that was in Warrens group also have family in the AUB, Kingstons and CPark. They are all connected.

    Walton

  121. Walton,,it really doesn’t matter to me WHO has the keys past or present or who passed them to other men,Kingston’s,AUB,CPark, it doesn’t matter anymore to me,WSJ’s a manipulator/manipulating some of my family whose still with his group, what irks me is they think,non-flds apostates are wicked evil & won’t talk to us,most of the time we’re lucky to get 10 minutes talking to them, on rare occasions 30 minutes,& I don’t bring up religion,it won’t do any good, they won’t listen anyway,remember “apostates are wicked/evil” in the eyes of the flds sheeple……other-Anon

  122. You’re both right. And my family still can’t figure out on which of the 3 (or 17) sides they come down on, but the faithful LDS hate polygamy although we all descent from it. The keys matter very much to some of our families, but to others, it has become unimportant due to the idiots running the factories. I’m an apostate too, but many of my cousins say I’m not. I currently attend no mormon church nor any other, except Christmas and Easter, but whenever I’m in Utah I attend mormon services. And of course the funerals, weddings, and jello. I married a truly fabulous lukewarm cradle Lutheran who has had the unique experience of meeting the faithful (god squad) at the Isaac Carling cemetery before I could catch up. He wasn’t packing and is a peacemaker, but not one to back down.

    Other Anon, (I imagine we’re related), is there anything you can respect about your heritage? I’m disgusted with mine much of the time but I can’t help but still maintain a measure of respect for those who withstood (unnecessarily) prison for their (probably ridiculous) beliefs. And you know that I DON”T share those beliefs.

    I can’t imagine what it’s like to live there. Hang in there.

  123. I read Kristin’s book – a friend helped edit it – and it was moving. I recommend it. Sometimes you can’t believe she went back as many times as she did, but that is regularly the case with abusive relationships.

  124. Right 3C, going back to the abuser isn’t unique to FLDS or other religious idiots, it is universal.

  125. From the interview,
    the only reason for women to “hang in there” is the promise of being with their families in the afterlife….
    Not much of a free will or simple lifestyle choice.
    hhg

  126. TC: I am struck by how different our LDS backgrounds are. As a midwest convert I don’t have the family history of ancestors who crossed the plains, practiced polygamy, etc. Maybe that is a good thing.

  127. other Anon. – the key thing does matter though. As long as they continue to think that someone else holds the key to their salvation they will always follow. And being pushed from one side to the next isn’t the answer imo.

    Mr. Fisher was right when he said that each person holds their own key. Each person is responsible for their own. At least that is how I understood it.

    http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=42&func=view&id=76161&catid=525

    This is from that Senate hearing in Texas.

    I have a relative who is “mentally challenged” and there are things that she has done that has put herself and others at risk. There are laws in place that have helped to keep herself and others safe.

    I am not saying that your relatives are mentally challenged but there are still laws that are in place to protect the innocent. Those laws should have been enforced.

    If those laws would be enforced, and people charged with polygamy, child neglect, child abuse, the healing process, the “wake up moment” doesn’t have to take a lifetime.

    If their only choice is to follow one with the key, they really don’t have much of a choice. They can’t turn left or right. They can’t go forward. They stand still.

    Walton

  128. You are correct Walton, there are laws in place to help the innocent, but law enforcement has to enforce said laws. Apparently, in Utah, that isn’t going to happen. It happened to a certain extent in Texas but as far as I’m concerned it didn’t go far enough.

    The FLDS were successful in getting an order for a Magistrate to review all documents obtained from the YFZ before law enforcement and child protective services got to view them. This took long enough that the Supreme Court of Texas declared that there wasn’t enough evidence to keep all the children and the tide of public opinion had turned against the State. In hindsight, and having talked to at least 1 official of the court, if the documents that were presented at Warren Jeffs trial were available to be presented, none of the children would have been returned at that time. The children who were in Texas at the time of the raid can place the blame for their continued suffering squarely at the feet of Rod Parker and Willie (Thugly) Jessop.

  129. Amen…..PT, the fact that the Texas Supreme Courts ruling to return the children has been shown to have been very short sighted and wrong. The Minority opinion had it correctly that criminal activities had been in evidence and justified the actions to protect and remove the children. The subsequent follow-up on the YFZ Ranch resident children hasn’t resulted in even one removal to protect or interview any child. The YFZ gulag is still back in business and little or no protection of the children is known or in evidence. How is it that a convicted sex offender continues to rule this congregation from prison?

  130. Proud Texan- there isn’t a doubt in my mind, that if Texas was ALLOWED to do what they said they were going to do, we wouldn’t be having this conversation today.

    During one of those hearings, there was testimony by a social worker that talked about working with a small child who drew “disturbing pictures” and told disturbing tales. He was young. very young. The images and stories he was referring to happen to be stories from the book. I think heads being hacked off or something like that.
    Granted there are disturbing stories in the Bible. But when we were kids, we were told stories of a loving God. We weren’t scared into believing.
    I am always confused by the “scare tactics” that people use when trying to “convince” others about a “loving God”.

    IT is bigger than Texas.

    Just lastnight, I was visiting with someone who is from Texas and I said that there is NOT one bad thing I can say about the state of Texas nor those in it.

    Someone mentioned earlier that the story about the DOJ was true. That Obama and crew were really doing something. I like Obama. I really believe that he has had a hand in some really good changes happening in my state. Really good things. And people are noticing. And some things are changing. It’s a good thing.

    But people. All of us should be able to recognize our own Government and the officials that are willing to stand up and say we are here to protect. We will protect you. And we should be able to say thank you and feel proud of how it works.

    No one did that with that story with the DOJ. no one. This is the first time I’ve even commented on it. I never thought it was true.

    Two weeks ago, I met a couple of people who Third Cousin might have either on her family history list or would have at least read about these two family lines. Never was I so excited to share some “news” and had no one to share it with. But I was still excited.

    And yes, third cousin – I do want to tell you who these people are that I’ve met. But the fact is, you don’t know me, I don’t know you and those that I’ve met still deserve their privacy. I really really would like to tell you. But I won’t. And I know you can respect that and appreciate the fact that I thought of you.

    Walton

    .

  131. Absolutely, Walton. Glad you met some cousins.

  132. other-Anon

    While the blog is indeed named after and concentrates on the FLDS, its apparent there is lots more behind the screen. I dont think it was meant to discuss ONLY the flds but as these discussions are “Open” and the article was about polygamy, its close enough. There has been much discussion about the other various groups, and case in point, the AUB was a direct breakoff of the flds so IMHO its fair game to note and discuss..

    It also is relevant in that with the browns attempting to decriminalize polygamy it would likely have an effect on the flds.

    So its important to look at the bigger picture.

    BTW feel free to share more of your experiences. Sad your family is so standoffish. Try offering understanding, support, change it up, dont be judgemental… you may be doing these things already.

    Guess my advice as far as dealing with them is disarm them with kindness.

    YMMV

  133. I would agree with Chaps as not only to the FLDS, but the independents, Tom Green, Laferety bros, and Mitchell have been of much discussion. The FLDS owes it’s origin to Musser & Wooley as do the CP, AUB, KIngston’s and LeBarons and the independents. IMO it’s good to talk about all these groups as it help’s paint a full picture of the FLDS and it’s origins.

  134. Third Cousin, you can contact me by going to this website: http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=johanson&GSfn=brenda&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=45651220&df=all&. Auntie Janet

  135. “All it takes for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

  136. Chaps, there are good people out there. But I think part of the problem is that they don’t know what to do or who to contact. The “helpline” is twisted beyond repair imo. The trust level is at zero for many.

    Walton

  137. *nitpick on*
    The Lebarons do not originate from the Wooleys like the rest. They come from Benjamin Johnson, not the 1886 revelation or the Wooleys.
    *nitpick off*

  138. Anybody heard anything lately about the kitten in pipe fiasco?..other-Anon

  139. Just heard that the reward is up to $7,500.

  140. Cement, I thought our 1886 revelation was John Taylor, in the presence or recording of a number of others. Our Johnsons were present I thought, but Lorin Woolley wasn’t far away if I remember. I haven’t researched prior to posting this, but if I’m wrong I want to know. They were very close to the LeBaron patriarch, who came down the Johnson line.

  141. http://www.mormonfundamentalism.com/FilesForDownload/PriesthoodExpounded.txt

    Here is some info on the LeBaron key history.

    From what I understand about the “keys” and the rules, when John Taylor issued the “keys”, he did so while he was acting President of the LDS Church. And the reason that it was done imo is because they wanted to keep Polygamy alive and active and still become a state.

    The main Church (LDS) could say that they didn’t practice polygamy and excommunicated those that did. All the while still having connections with the off shoot branches. John Taylor said that they would be taken care of and their families. Which they were/are and that they will still meet in the Heavens. ( even though they are excommunicated they (the LDS Church) lets them back in thru the back door with baptisms of the Dead/ extra marriages via the dead)

    But I don’t think that everyone knew about the plans nor the extent of the plans made by a few at the round table. So when John Taylor went into hiding and then died, the new guy took over and wasn’t fully aware of the deals made behind closed doors.

    So imo at that time when some members of the LDS Church believed that the Church truly did cut off ties with those practicing Polygamy when really they didn’t. I think there is still a small group that follows thru with the promises made by John Taylor.

    But..when the new guy came in and changed the rules, the whole bunch should have followed HIS rules. Not continued with John Taylors wishes.

    And I am just about 100% sure that those rules/regulations and notes are buried somewhere in one of the LDS caves. The LDS have always been known for keeping records of everything. EVERYTHING.

    When the Govt. made a deal with the LDS those notes and agreements also have to be in the cave.

    Some members of the Church know about it and some don’t.

    Brigham Young himself said when he visited the Berry knoll that the place would become the head of the Church and not the tail. Again, it was said, and things were passed on from one to another.

    But it all changed with the new guy. They should have changed the books. They didn’t. But they should. They could. But they won’t.

    Some members of the LDS Church today are still breaking the rules which makes it even harder on those who believe that the Church had changed.

    That is where the Govt. can help out everyone. Enforce the laws. And give those inside a road to leave. Give them their own keys. ( A way out)

    Pushing them from one side of the street to the other (AUB/ CPark) is only putting a band-aid on a Cancer.

    Keys do matter.
    Walton

  142. Hey post eraser: how am I suppose to know what part of my post might be offensive? wrong? and why can’t the truth come out?

    It would be better if you just told me why or why not and then I could stop trying to share.
    —-
    on another note: Where is Randy and Kathy Mankin?

    Walton

  143. no edit button sorry: scratch the word wrong from my previous post I just made. I know my erased post was spot on. I knew 2-3 years ago.

    People can handle the truth. Really.

    Walton

  144. Chaps, there are good people out there. But I think part of the problem is that they don’t know what to do or who to contact. The “helpline” is twisted beyond repair imo. The trust level is at zero for many.

    Walton

    Anonymous said this on July 17, 2012 at 5:04 PM
    ——————————————————————-
    The ‘TRUST LEVEL’ should STAY at “0” — Any offered help has an “AGENDA” and EVERYBODY knows this — Give just ONE PERSON a REASON to “trust” !!! ——– MP

  145. 😦

    I can’t. And your right. The trust level must remain at 0. But what an ugly,cold, lonley fearful life it is living it that way.

    Continued years of lies and deciet isn’t going to make it any better. If I figured it out, if I am fearful so are those within.

    But noone can move forward without the truth. But I keep trying. I keep trying to climb that stupid fence. Each time, I am knocked to the ground, I might move a little slower, I might be a little winded but I keep trying. And more than that I want to keep trying.

    And do you want to know who motivated me the most? made me keep looking. President Hinckley.

    Walton

  146. Walton, it wasn’t deleted, it was in the Spam folder. It’s out now.

  147. Eldorado Success reports FLDS has demolished the new Guard tower just completed last week… can it get any weirder??
    http://www.myeldorado.net/index.php/feature-news/2150-yfz-tower-demolished.html

  148. Anon@10:51, it just gets weirder and weirder. What’s next? Demolishing the amphitheater?

  149. Pilot just posted pics of destroyed Guard tower. http://www.eldoradoflds.us/towergone-7-19-12/

  150. I’m just betting it’s not because they are starting a new phase of openness to the culture around them and encouraging the women and children to make their own choices about their lives.

  151. The halt in construction of amphitheater of the absurd and the tower of babel has been knocked down just days after it was completed. Could we see the destruction of other buildings at YFZ.

    Could it be that the FLDS might be considering abandoning YFZ? Could the DOJ lawsuit be forcing the FLDS to use their assets to pay for defending the lawsuit, leaving no money for YFZ projects?

    Could the FLDS be planning to level the entire YFZ compound and walk away from Texas. Could the FLDS be circling the wagons as “short creek” for a final stand against the outside world?

  152. Oh my heck as they say in Utah.

    Guess their seer, revelator and good prophetical plans dont always work out as expected.

    And…. yeah double what Betty said… It must mean they plan on being more open… riggghhhttttt…..

    BTW I bet they have those drones checking on them quite often. Cant see those from no stinking three story tower – so it was a waste.

    Good excersise in futility though.

  153. wacky! let the rumors begin on why they tore it down…

  154. Wow. They must have taken a huge wrecking ball to it – I don’t see how you could bulldoze something that solid.

  155. Maybe they imploded it with dynamite.

  156. Not built to Warren perfect specs? You know what a stickler to detail he is.

    Not to mention the thing probably ran 120 degrees on a hot day. Now with all that junk the place has accumulated, its looking more like a junkyard just like Shortcreek.

    Home sweet junkyard home!

  157. TC

    Maybe using Warrens new formula for dyno mite?

    Thing does look exploded.

  158. It looks like not only are people now getting kicked out, but structures as well. Hope they don’t start bull-dozing houses now to spite Wisan.

  159. A simple reason why they had to demolish the tower was because the foundation was faulty. They might rebuild it??? Time will tell….

  160. I think it was a test of loyalty, to see if they were loyal enough to tear down something that took so long to build as soon as it was finished.

    Anon @ 3:35 if it was a faulty foundation they would have realized it sooner, before it was finished.

  161. No way was it a faulty foundation.

    That thing was massive and could have held 20 people instead of the 2-3 that might be expected to man it like some funky guard tower.

    No matter the reason, it shows they (still) dont have their act together.

  162. They have gotten a lot of ridicule over the statue too, I am betting they are too shy and embarrassed to unveil it anytime soon if ever.

    Warren be damned.

  163. Not if WSJ tells them to. Historically humiliation and persecution are welcomed as a sign we’re god’s people. Is there a current FLDS head of PR?

  164. If they were selling YFZ, why would they tear down a multimillion dollar improvement to the property?

  165. Who said they were selling it? I think they would probably abandon it and leave people guessing.

  166. Here’s a KSL report on the FLDS tearing down the YFZ .

    http://www.ksl.com/?sid=21331234&nid=148&title=flds-tear-down-recently-constructed-tower-in-texas&s_cid=featured-4

  167. And not to be left out, here’s the D-News report on the end of the tower Babel:

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865559317/FLDS-members-build-giant-tower-only-to-tear-it-down.html

    Sam Brower’s comments are interesting.

  168. Another SLC TV station report:

    http://fox13now.com/2012/07/19/mysterious-flds-tower-completed-then-destroyed/

    Seems everyone’s scratching their heads over this one!

  169. I wasn’t gonna but I’m gonna vent. Really? 13K over a kitten? Where were all these contributors when teenagers are being whisked out of Short Creek right under everyone’s noses? And wives are being drugged and contained without consent? But what really unites people is the plight of a long dead kitten when there are human victims 12 times per day? This is what galvanizes us behind a cause? Leaving the victims with no one to fight for them? REALLY? A cat. I feel for the cat. But JHC.

    Sorry, it’s been too long since I visited the shooting range.

  170. Wow. I’m really in a mood. But no apologies.

  171. TC

    I hear ya on the kitten – what they did was deplorable but NOTHING compared to the misery they cause women and children. I think its the video of the kitten meowing for help that really shows whats going on.

    I hope they have a 100 million bounty on the kittens killer…

    Oh wait, they do, Warren is going to lose the UEP and this is just icing on the cake.

  172. IRT the YFZippers guard tower – evidently it was an inch taller than Warren’s statue was going to be… and we cant have that.

    Also, its good practice for knocking down walls, lets not forget he has said that is his preferred way of leaving prison.

    :p

  173. I agree with you about the kitten 3C. I’ve had those same thoughts myself. I’m like WTF!!! What about the lady who was assaulted on her own property by the Marshalls and it was videotaped. Why wasn’t there a reward for putting the creeps that did that to her in jail?

  174. Although I have never been to Texas, I was informed Warren preached a lot from section 101 of the D & C where it talks about watchtowers. In the context before I left, the “watchmen” were the elders of Israel that allowed Gentilism among the people and therefore had to be cast out and the young gathered up to redeem Zion. There is also reference there to destroying the watchtowers of the enemy. Don’t know if this has anything to do with it. Just speculation…

  175. http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2012/jul/20/flds-member-steeds-appeals-dismissed/

    LeRoy Johnson Steed filed a motion to dismiss his appeals and the 3rd Court of Appeals granted it. Guess the funds are drying up.

  176. Keith Dutson Jr’s will be submitted on briefs on August 1. Shouldn’t take long after that to get the opinion unless he’s added some new twist to the well used appeal of the turkey baster.

  177. Merril hasn’t yet paid the court reporter and clerk for copies so his appeal may also be ending soon. The same thing goes for son LeRoy. No payments made for the record.

    Wendell must have some money stashed away. The clerk has filed the record in his case.

  178. Lots on money to build a tower that was destroyed soon after completion and no money for appeals. More and more people kicked out so presumably less tithing coming in. Seems to be an unsustainable situation.

  179. Truth

    All the effort and resources that have been used for The Jeffs seige
    on the people has been astronomical. All the homes in Colorado City and Hildale Ut. .. could have been completely rebuilt and given immaculate landscaping. The infrastructure of the twin cities could have been improved to the status of amazing and incredible. Thriving happy families with full hearts and pantries. A man of GOD would and could direct a people in this way…..

    Its time to wake up and realize that we have been lied too.
    Father Jeffs and Jessop and Wayman have led us astray.
    They have worked to divide our families.
    They have used us as slaves.
    They have knowingly instilled fear into the hearts of our children.

    The model of Civility would be a ” United Order ”
    The Junk heap of CCA/Hildale full of frowning ugly people is not ZION.

    It has been rendered to ash.

  180. Amen.

  181. Anonymous @ 12:52 pm ,here’s some more absurdities for you to grasp,my brothers, brother in law told him he was part of the “united order for 4 months,&because of his previous job he looked on the internet to compare prices also he had sex with his wives, when it was found out what he did,he was booted out,lost his wives & family,lived in his car for a few months & recently got his house back thru an occupancy agreement with Bruce Wisan, want more absurdities,The house with the high walls next to the big storehouse is a TEMPLE, apparently those 15-20 men are to meet child bearing women & teenage ones there,what for you ask, there’s where those men do stud service to those women mentioned,with beds set up up for that purpose,so that rumor was true, John Wayman is in hiding for transporting underage girls across state lines & international borders for the purpose of underage marriages, more absurdities,the food stamps the FLDS get, when they buy food at local store they donate it all to the storehouse, tell their relatives & friends about it, which leaves very little good food for the FLDS majority, of course they’re donating money,food & time to the united order/storehouse & getting very little in return,can it get more absurd ? Yes, YOU CAN’T FIX INSANITY !!!!other-Anon

  182. Anon 2:40pm, Interesting, perhaps you could contact the Mohave Sheriff’s deputies so they can bust up the whore house temple and arrest those involved. If they are still using underage girls as “brides”, they need to join Warren the felonious profit in the pen.

    If you don’t trust the sheriffs deputies, even though they aren’t controlled by FLDS.

    Call the feds:

    “If you have any information regarding this matter, please contact the Justice Department at 1-800-896-7743 or email the department at coloradocitydiscrimination@usdoj.gov.”

  183. Did someone forget to throw away the recipe for warren’s magical concrete mix?

  184. John Wayman should be concerned about his role in trafficking and underage marriage. Maybe he can follow warren’s example and end up on a most wanted list.

  185. John Wayman should be concerned about his role in trafficking and underage marriage. Maybe he can follow warren’s example and end up on a most wanted list.
    chemist said this on July 22, 2012 at 5:50 PM

    Better yet, not on a most wanted list, but an inmate number at Huntsville,Texas like for life!

  186. I think Wayman would have to be prosecuted by the Feds for trafficking girls across state lines for sex. I’m not sure that it is something that Texas can prosecute for.

  187. Yes, it would probably have to be a federal charge. Therre have been stories about a Canadian/US investigation of flds underage girls going from canada to the UDS for marriage.

  188. From the Vancouver Sun :
    http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Bountiful+remains+festering+problem/6974139/story.html

  189. This is of great concern – I am not sure if anyone has posted this yet.
    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865557719/Warren-Jeffs-chooses-15-to-father-future-FLDS-children-sources-say.html?pg=all

  190. BIB

    Miss you! Yes its been reported – and the kitten in concrete – so much madness going on!

    Glad to see you popping in again!

  191. yes BiB, it was a big topic here. Every news outlet had their version of the story. One said the rumors were false, generated by Sam Bower and it was more like only 15 can have sex with their own wives. Everyone else speculated it was as stated in the many articles. But, this recent comment from Anonymous said this on July 21, 2012 at 2:40 PM:

    want more absurdities,The house with the high walls next to the big storehouse is a TEMPLE, apparently those 15-20 men are to meet child bearing women & teenage ones there,what for you ask, there’s where those men do stud service to those women mentioned,with beds set up up for that purpose,so that rumor was true,

  192. Here’s the SLTrib’s take on the tower of babel at YFZ.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/54544070-185/tower-yfz-deck-doyle.html.csp

  193. Happy Pioneer Day everyone!

  194. TC, until I studied the problem of polygamy, I never heard of pioneer day. If you asked most Texans what “pioneer day” is, they wouldn’t have the slightest idea what you were talking about.

    TC hope you enjoyed your “pioneer day”, here in Texas it was just another weekday, everyone was at work and all business and gov’t offices were open as normal.

  195. Yeah, I know AT. Pioneer Day is the celebration of the day our 1847 ancestors arrived in UT and Brigham declares “this is the place” we’ll settle. My people didn’t come till the next year, having been asked to stay behind and farm & can crops for the pioneers coming through. SLC shuts down for days during the holiday & downtown becomes grand central stadium.

  196. Thanks 3C. Fireworks and Navajo tacos.

  197. TC: In our sacrament meeting last Sunday we sang some pioneer themed hymns. That is the only pioneer day celebration in my midwest state. Several years ago we were in Utah on pioneer day and went to the parade. Never saw so many horse units in a parade before. They had street sweepers in the parade to gather the horse droppings as the parade went along the street.

  198. Belated happy pioneer day TC. In my Midwest state we sang some pioneer themed songs in our sacrament meeting. That was the extent of the pioneer day stuff here. Several years ago we were in Utah on July 24 and went to the parade. I had never seen so many horses in a parade before; they actually had street sweeping guys in the parade to clean up the horse droppings. They also had big rodeos in the evening.

  199. Everyone in Utah also gets the day off of work too as a holiday. I was also surprised when I worked with a company in Wyoming and they got the first day of hunting season as a state holiday. In the south neither are celebrated nor do we have any like state holiday.

  200. Hawaii has to be the best place for state holidays! Prince Kuhio Day in March, Good Friday, King Kamehameha Day in June, General Election Day in November and Statehood Day in August. These are in addition to Federal holidays. As a state employee in Hawaii, you get FIFTEEN paid holidays! Every culture/state has its unique observances. LOVED having these extra days off when living in Hawaii. Aloha!

  201. It appears the AUB through the Kody Brown family is still pushing for legalization of polygamy.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54557306-78/utah-law-bigamy-marriage.html.csp

    Of interest the article states: “Polygamy “opens up a whole can of legal worms that is not really opened with the same sex marriage issue,” Schacter said, noting polygamy throughout history has been associated with underage marriages and child sex abuse.”

    IMO that’s true as shown in the FLDS/Warren Jeffs affair as well as independents such as Tom Green & Brian David Mitchell. Polygamy almost always ends up with under age marriage & abuse because the math shows males & females are born in equal numbers, eventually the polygamous group runs out legal age females.

  202. Federal Judge blasts actions of Utah officials over Kody Brown polygamy case accusing Utah DA’s office of:

    “Is the act of the Utah County attorney simply an attempt to avoid the issue of what consenting adults can do constitutionally?” Waddoups asked assistant attorney general Jerrold Jensen.”

    http://www.ksl.com/?sid=21406358&nid=148&title=judge-questions-dismissal-of-sister-wives-lawsuit-challenging-utah-bigamy-law&s_cid=queue-1

    Not smart to anger federal judges, insures loss in federal district court and having to move on to appeals courts & US Supreme Court.

  203. On another note, congrats to RangerNick Hanna on receiving his Medal of Merit from the DPS along with Wes Hensley, Jonathan Broadway, David Doran who all received Director’s Awards for their work in bringing Warren Jeffs and 10 other FLDS men to justice for sexually assaulting underage girls, bigamy and performing illegal marriages.

  204. http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2012/jul/25/rangers-others-honored-by-dps-for-flds-raid-work/?partner=RSS

    Link to the Standard Times article about the DPS awards.

  205. Thanks for the info PT – total congratulations to Hanna, Hensley, Broadway, and Doran. JOBS WELL DONE! Thank you for helping clean up the mess my ancestors made and continue to make. I don’t really think it will quell further transgressions because as Other Anon likes to say, “you can’t fix…..” But THANK YOU. I think you’ll notice I rarely post in capitals.

  206. Today is the anniversary of the 1953 raid on Short Creek. Ben Winslow posted this link to some photos Life Magazine did not previously publish. I think the first is Vera Black. http://life.time.com/history/raid-on-a-polygamist-town-1953/#1

  207. QUESTION: So when Warren tells us to turn off the internet…how can we still have an iphone or android? They have the internet (required)…. Do you have to be one of the united order in order to receive such a device?

  208. I just got back from Monroe, UT where Pioneer day is a week long celebration.

  209. In Indiana we sang a couple of pioneer themed hymns in our LDS church service last Sunday. That was the only pioneer thing done here.

  210. Anon 4:30pm, I have no idea. I use tech, but I don’t know how it works. The husband is my IT department. I can ask him to research if it is important for you to know.

  211. Pioneer days agenda:

    http://www.littlegreenvalley.com/images/stories/monroe%20posters%203.pdf

  212. So, Elder Steven R. Snow, who was the lead attorney for the FLDS in several court cases, has been appointed to Obama’s presidential advisory council on Faith-Based and Neighborhood Partnerships, according to a press release issued by his good buddy, Senator Orrin Hatch. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865559594/Elder-Snow-appointed-to-presidential-advisory-council.html. Anyone want to take guesses as to what the federal position on polygamy will be defined as very shortly?

  213. So no Internet and no texting. How are the FLDS even able to run their day to day businesses?? And why were they shut down?? These poor folks are suffering beyond all comprehension and they don’t even realize it. May God grant them justice very soon. You are in my prayers, all FLDS!!

  214. HEre is the SL Tribune reference to Steven Snow’s appointment to that faith cabinet. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/54572955-90/snow-council-church-faith.html.csp#disqus_thread. Be sure to post your comments objecting to his appointment based on past representation of the FLDS that directly led to young 12 year old girls being raped by Warren Jeffs in the YFZ temple.

  215. So, Elder Steven R. Snow, who was the lead attorney for the FLDS in several court cases, has been appointed to Obama’s presidential advisory council on Faith-Based and Neighborhood….

    Yes anon, many people don’t realize that both President Obama & Mitt Romney come from polygamous families.

    President Obama’s father practiced plural marriage and Obama’s mother was wife number 2. Romney’s great-grandfather also practiced plural marriage.

    Obama’s appointment of Nuffer as federal judge makes it apparent as to President Obama’s views as to plural marriage. This appointment of Snow should come as no surprise.

    IMO it appears that President Obama see things like Utah state government, they are not going to prosecute based on polygamy, but will go after civil rights violations, child abuse etc.

    IMO it doesn’t matter who is elected US president, both men with plural marriage as their heritage will follow the Utah stance on polygamy.

  216. This link explains IMO the why of Obama’s actions with Snow & Nuffer.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obama-and-romney-both-come-from-a-ancestry-of-polygamy/2012/04/12/gIQA3TI8CT_story.html?hpid=z3

  217. This is almost as frightening as the Nuffer appointment. I’m livid. Snow’s probably a good man but this is a message that just shouldn’t be sent.

  218. Ambulance from Colorado City T-bones a car of tourists from Switzerland going through Hurricane … 8 yr old girl critical.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54581934-78/ambulance-van-child-crash.html.csp

  219. I apologize for being off topic gearing towards the AUB. My heart is in the right place, I assure you. For many of us in the mid-west,until Sister Wives, we had no real idea of the depth of it, saw the FLDS as a small group. I thank you and appreciate reading this blog. Thanks to Rachel for answering me – I didn’t know what you told me. I’m working on a genealogy of all the Browns, to explain how wrong and how they are all connected. Who did Christine’s Brown’s mother, Ruthann Rachel Lebaron (md. 1st Rex Allred) marry after her divorce?

  220. Just noticed a LOT of recent activity at the two FLDS properties in Mancos, CO. A 4,000+ square foot house hurriedly built in 2003 is totally gone, looks like it was taken down at least a year ago. Other construction is going on on that parcel and a concrete plant and heavy equipment and new construction are in place on the other parcel. Vehicles have Utah and Nevada plates. Anyone have any idea what is going on here? See https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10151079139147779.413871.579867778&type=1 for the beginnings of an album of pics from today, July 29, 2012.

  221. Interesting article from England

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2180942/Polygamous-immigrant-families-paid-benefits-Government-blunder.html

  222. hearing that Colorado City Fire Chief Jake Barlow has been ex’ed and told to leave town

  223. wow, also heard that Kelley Fischer and Tom Cox were ex’ed also. They were major money men through their companies.(ATI Contraction and Reliance Electric)

  224. I’ve heard Tom Cox was branded a “son of perdition”, if he was “karma bit him in the butt”,he’s not allowed back into the flds EVER, sounds like he’s been booted upstairs, now make a life for yourself,Tom your not going to get your family back EVER,they’ve been reassigned,good look Tom….other-Anon

  225. Jerold williams and Liz Wayman also ex’ed and have joined with Will Timpsons group!

  226. New Mike Watkiss report on FLDS, discusses many recent events in “short creek”.

  227. Third Cousin, I understand your concern. I became interested in anti-polygamy after watching shows on it, and I had never really known what the religion entailed. Shocked, is a mild term for how I felt. I am trying to do some general background on the Browns to show the reality of it, and just trying to make all the connections. Is there a way we can private message on here? K. Dee is helping me learn, although she doesn’t know my name on here, what could I do to make you comfortable, or private email each other?

  228. This link explains IMO the why of Obama’s actions with Snow & Nuffer.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/obama-and-romney-both-come-from-a-ancestry-of-polygamy/2012/04/12/gIQA3TI8CT_story.html?hpid=z3
    A Texan said this on July 27, 2012 at 1:50 PM

    A Texan, I really don’t see Obama has time to vet any appointment himself. He has staff that handles it and he probably goes on their recommendation and doesn’t even look at the details. I suspect it is all done by cronyism at lower levels.

  229. Does anyone know who Liz Wayman is/was married to?? other-Anon

  230. Didn’t she marry Jerold Williams after Ron Rohbock was ex’d? Or am I getting my Liz Waymans mixed up?

  231. Everyone remember Willie the Thug, Warren Jeffs chief enforcer & bodyguard, a man IMO guilty of aiding & abetting much of Warren Jeffs crime spree. Well he is going after Warren Jeffs and the FLDS now, perhaps he hopes to avoid any future prosecution by painting himself the victim of Warren Jeffs & the FLDS.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54598807-78/jeffs-james-jessop-won.html.csp

    IMO ole Willie is a true believer in CYA! He’s even making noise about going after the YFZ in Texas. Of course this could be a ruse to give control to Willie fugly the new self appointed profit and what ever the new polig group calls itself.

  232. Liz Wayman married Jerold and is still with him currently, the only lady wth him matter of fact!

  233. SLT article on Bruce Wisans “getting paid for UEP work deadline”.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54600078-78/utah-wisan-trust-court.html.csp#disqus_thread

  234. What is YFZ currently valued at?

  235. With or without all the ho’s?

  236. How about according to the Tax man?

  237. The Tax man have experience with ho’s?

  238. Please remember that there are victims at YFZ who are loved ones of those on this blog. They deserve your respect and compassion. Thank you, Auntie Janet

  239. Thank you Auntie J.

  240. Does Joseph Lee Chatwin have any ties to the FLDS?

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54615038-78/chatwin-car-dog-chase.html.csp

  241. I don’t know, Anon 7:04, but the combination of a Chatwin surname with what appears from the mugshot to be perhaps Mexican ethnicity would be pretty unique. i would guess ties to the Mexican colonies but that’s just an assumption on my part.

  242. Thanks 3C. I didn’t notice the mug shot. Pray tell? Where is the Mexican FLDS compound?

  243. No FLDS Mexican compounds per se, but it’s not that simple. There are five Mexican colonies “colonias” known to me. Dublan, Juarez (don’t confuse it with Juarez south of El Paso), Chuichupa, and one farther south that is fully AUB that I don’t know the name of. I might be more specific if you can provide more details. Additionally, there was the dude with a Black surname who fled to Mexico to avoid arrest but was denied refuge in LeBaron.

  244. OK — YFZ —- Here comes WILLIE ‘the thug’ !!! Willie WINS and YFZ is definately in his ‘sights’ …………… Here comes WILLIE.
    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/54601425-191/jeffs-jessop-fascinating-filed.html.csp

    MP

  245. And …………… DON’T think he won’t …………… money is POWER!!! Warren has proved that !!! — go get it WILLIE — Don’t forget the Women — 80 Women that are just hoping for a ‘good man’ to show up – Are YOU that man WILLIE ??? – — keep sweet —

  246. INTERESTING – A TWISTED interest in the inner workings of a twisted and evil Deity of the most high …as WSJ might say! now — all-of-a-sudden … Big WILLIE is the evil one ! ….. AMAZING !

  247. And they nick named him ‘the thug’ —- You ain’t seen nothing …yet ! …. and YOU ALSO Mr Willie — You’ll be fighting Mr Wisan and the entire state of UTAH — maybe even the FEDS … just sayin’ ……………….. MP

  248. I wish Willie, or Wisan, or the State of Utah, well in confiscating the YFZ ranch and evicting errr liberating all the women and children from that cult compound.

    While “Slave Appraiser” was rather crude in assessing the value, it points to the fact the women and children are being “kept” and its rather a shame Texas didnt take it all the way and get the kids out.

    Victims, indeed, hundreds of them. It doesnt really matter what the property is assessed at, its what a willing buyer is willing to pay and or can get a loan for.

    I may want to pay 10 million for the moon, doesnt mean a lender is going to fork over 7 million if I payed 30% down.

    For Willie perhaps the biggest worth is victory over Warren and his cluster of thugs, maybe he would use it as an outpost…

    I dont see them using it like Warren does – there is no income – but who knows. And the Temple, it was built by those pesky FLDS, wouldnt they be creeped out by Warren’s child molesting escapades there? Maybe not ha ha but it’ll be interesting to see it all unfold –

    I do believe the FLDS hold on many of their properties – days are numbered.

  249. Video on Dargers posted at Time.com – evidently an article in the Aug 6 issue

    HA the kids dont like driving in the “Plyg Rig” 15 passenger bus – imagine it – and they need another rig to carry 11 if they want the entire family to go somewhere.

    http://www.time.com/time/video/player/0,32068,1754465091001_2120441,00.html

  250. Wisan and Company won in the Supreme Court. Shirtless has to come up with 5.5 million.

  251. PT, doesn’t that mean the legislature has to come up with it next session?

  252. Its here. Kind of surprised the supreme court pulled the trigger on this one.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/54619727-78/court-trust-utah-million.html.csp#disqus_thread

    Anyway didnt mean to step on anyone with the comment about the people kept at YFZ.

    What happens to them if they want to leave? Thats why I used the handle “Slave Appraiser”.

    I consider them captives by this cult, both by DOGMA as well as PHYSICALLY held.

    It was a poor joke to call the women ho’s and for that I apologize – just trying to make a point. I hope they have the opportunity as well as the kids to be freed mentally and physically so they can escape the bondage.

    Maybe the State of Utah will put a lien on it now and drive Warren to banging his head against the wall again, one can only hope.

  253. Slave Appraiser, you’re welcome here. And thanks for the apology. I knew where you were coming from, but the wording hurt some of us. No harm done.

  254. Here is a link to the opinion and 3C I think it means the Utah Legislatire will have to be called into special session if they aren’t currently in session.

    http://www.utcourts.gov/opinions/supopin/UEP080312.pdf

  255. “No Refuge”: A Texas Observer article about the attempted FLDS child rescue in 2008, what went right and what went wrong.

    https://www.texasobserver.org/cover-story/no-refuge

    Some of the details about how the system failed the FLDS children brought back my disappointment and heartache, but I still thought it was a good, thorough article

  256. Ditto what Third Cousin said. My family there is at the top of my prayers everyday.

  257. http://www.utcourts.gov/opinions/supopin/UEP080312.pdf

    A link to the opinion of the Supreme Court’s decision that says that Shirtless and therefore Utah tax payers are responsible for paying the bills until the property can be sold.

    It allows for Utah to recoup the money but only if the property stays in the hands of Wisan. That means that the Court needs to say that their opinion that the FLDS waited too long has to be ruled as a final opinion or else it goes back to the Court of Appeals in Denver and then it is anyone’s guess what will happen.

  258. Here’s more from SLTrib on the victory for Wisan at Utah Supreme Court.

    http://www.utcourts.gov/opinions/supopin/UEP080312.pdf

    The only appeal avenue left for ole “shirtless” is the US Supreme Court. IMO the will have an influence on the federal appeals court. The appeals court still must rule if the take over of UEP by state was legal. Remember ole federal Judge Dee Benson who ruled in favor of the FLDS back in 2011. Hopefully the appeals court will overturn Benson’s ruling.

  259. Thanks PT for the update, hopefully the Utah Supreme Court will uphold the lower court ruling that the FLDS waited too long. And federal courts toss our Benson’s rulings as well.

    Hopefully the UEP can be kept out of the hands of the FLDS?Warranites as well as the new profit in town Willie Timpson/Jessop, and his loyal enforcer Wille the Thug.

  260. Soooooooo VERY VERY — ‘sad’ — to me ………. I also have LOTS of family at Hildale, CC, CP, BountBC, YFZ and ‘many’ other FLDS smaller Domains. Why am I saying ‘SAD’ ?? ……….. because ‘these people’ as a whole are very very dedicated hard working serious people about what they believe and what they are doing and the people here have all spent DECADES building and working their guts out for a dream of living their beliefs FREELY without outside intervention. This is the very reason these towns exist and each and every person has put their “ALL’ into these places and even borrowed monies they couldn’t afford to meet the demand of a few-at-the-top ……… a COMPLETE ATROCITY to me … oh yes .. I did it too. I guess that’s why it’s sooooooooooo hard to see it all CRUMBLE !!! … (tears in my eyes).. more later … but it’s a thought. mp

  261. Mamonox

    Well we all make mistakes, but at least some people recognize that before its too late.

  262. Hey, yesterday at 5pm we forgot to celebrate the one year anniversary of the WSJ guilty verdicts. I certainly remember exactly where I was when the verdict came in.

  263. I was in an airport and I whooped so loud people turned to stare at me
    HHG

  264. I was in rural Oregon where no one but me and my family cared. i bawled.

  265. Third Cousin, you still in Oregon? We could connect and commiserate! Auntie Janet

  266. Sorry, Auntie, back in Idaho where I live 🙂

  267. I was in the courtroom listening to the verdict being read.

  268. I know, PT, and I wished to god I was there next to you, but thank god, heard it simultaneously.

  269. Wish you could have been here too. Those of us in the courtroom (well, all but Lyle) were elated.

  270. Wonder how long it took word to spread in Shrotcreek.

    Since none of them watch the news…. internet… TV.. nothing… I bet the news went around with a lot of lying baggage attached.

    Too bad the sheeple didnt get the blow by blow news as Warren took himself down in flames.

  271. Not personally an Obama supporter but I have to say, the convictions all happened during his Administration…

    Not that he had he had anything to do with it – just noting the irony.

  272. I was blown away during the whole trial by the gross details of what he had done to those little girls.. By the time the verdict was read I felt like I needed to take a bath. I remember one juror’s family said the woman who was a juror spent the whole next week in her garden weeding and not really speaking to any of them. I so understood.

  273. I think Watkiss or Winslow or somebody sent news delegates down to the creek almost immediately to spread the word on the verdict and try to get reaction. As I recall they just were not believed, and folks just smiled and kept sweet on camera. The coverage was eerie.

  274. I think I have discovered the motivation behind Warrens banning of the color red. While I was in Utah for Pioneer Day, my female LDS relatives were joking about how they “accidentally” wash their Mormon underwear with something red to turn them pink. Apparently this is an age old Mormon trick. Control freak Warren probably wanted to curtail these “mishaps” with the ban.

    3C, have you a link to the coverage that you are referring to?

  275. Watergirl, when the penalty phase material came to me live I literally had to turn on Tom & Jerry in the background to keep from freaking out. It’s extra sickening to those of us with mormon / temple connections. At the time I really thought I’d heard just about everything, but, sadly, not. I hope the jurors were offered counseling, my county here provides that but hardly anybody knows about it.

  276. Wow, anon, I’ve never heard about the accidental dyeing. The party line was that when the Jesus returns he will be dressed in red and so that color should be reserved only for him. And then of course the red Escalade. I’ll look for the coverage I mentioned, it may take me a bit since it’s a year old. It was video coverage out of Arizona.

  277. Thanks 3C. I certainly can’t rule out the possibility that my family is just weird. All other evidence seems to point in that direction.

    🙂

  278. Pretty cool…

  279. That was beautiful piano playing. Any idea who the little boy is?

  280. I found this video elsewhere, and the little boy is “Jack.” That is all the info I saw. Obviously, Jack is being treated in the hospital.

  281. That was lovely “by ear” piano playing. Sounded like the popular hit song “From A Distance” that Bette Midler sang a few years ago. Kind of surprised the FLDS girls are allowed to listen to and play that kind of music, but very glad!

  282. I have just been notified that the Safety Net is now publishing its first monthly newsletter. It wants contributions submitted to name the newsletter. Anyone? Tongue in cheek or otherwise? Obviously “The Merry Wives” is already taken.

  283. “One fell through the Safety Net cracks – No make that 10,000”

  284. How about “Safety – NOT”

  285. Sigh —yet another cult — this one was a extreme islamic group who had followers hidden in an underground bunker for over 10 years. There were 20 children involved. Fortunately Warren didn’t think of this one

    http://www.tntmagazine.com/news/weird/seventy-members-of-islamist-sect-found-living-in-russian-bunker-for-10-years-without-light

  286. Anon 8:14PM, Ole Warren might have been thinking in that direction with all the tunnels etc around the amphitheater of the absurd at YFZ.

  287. Here’s an article from the SLTrib speculating as to the reason why Warren is no longer sending out revelations to the general public, and news media.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/54668247-191/revelations-jeffs-record-sent.html.csp

    Could it be that the warden at the prison in Palestine, TX has put a stop to Warren’s foolishness, sending all revelations to the circular file!

  288. Of interest is this article from the San Angelo newspaper about the Utah Supreme Court ordering old “Shirtless” to pay up.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2012/jul/25/yearning-for-zion-ranch-tower-dismantled-flds/

    Favorite quote from article: “He said he has kept an eye on the FLDS group because, “They’re not to be trusted. We need to know what’s going on.”

  289. My bad, wanted to post this article on San Angelo papers article on Utah court ruling.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2012/aug/03/utah-ag-ordered-pay-polygamous-takeover/

    Above post was link for story on YFZ tower, but I still like Doyles quote on the FLDS.

  290. New documentary:

  291. Case Status: In the CCA / UEP / Ron & Jinger Cooke federal lawsuit Shirtless has been added as an Intervenor in the case, and the City of Hildale has just filed a motion for Intervenor status as well. A decision on Hildale is pending. Part of the case requests declaratory judgment as to the constitutionality of Wisan’s appointment.

  292. Case Status: In USA vs. CCA et al most parties have accepted service via waiver but nothing else is happening. No scheduling order yet. Keep ya posted.

  293. Case Status: In the related federal case in which the Cooke’s are plaintiffs, there have been so many motions for summary judgment I am having trouble keeping track of them all. There does not appear to be a hearing date but oral argument was requested.

  294. Anon 6:51, is there any more info on the source of this upcoming documentary? I did not recognize the interviewees, and their accents don’t sound right to me.

  295. 3C, I think the documentary is the one that Victoria Reynolds and Amber Dawn Lee have been working on for a while.

    Thanks for the status updates on the lawsuits. I’m not sure what the first one is though, the one labeled CCA/UEP/Ron & Jinger Cooke. Is it the same as the 3rd one you listed?

  296. PT, They are two separate cases, Cooke’s are plaintiffs in one case and defendants in the other.

  297. I guess I don’t know about the one they are defendants in.

  298. Wendell Loy Nielsen filed a Motion to Dismiss his Appeal.

    http://www.3rdcoa.courts.state.tx.us/opinions/pdfOpinion.asp?OpinionID=21331

  299. Keith Dutson Jr denied a free copy of the record.

    http://www.3rdcoa.courts.state.tx.us/opinions/pdfOpinion.asp?OpinionID=21284

  300. Merril still hasn’t paid the court clerk/court reporter for his record, son Leroy’s appeal was dismissed for Want of Prosecution.

    http://www.3rdcoa.courts.state.tx.us/opinions/pdfOpinion.asp?OpinionID=21297

  301. As it stands the following have had opinions issued by the Court of Appeals:

    Raymond
    Emack
    Lehi
    Keate
    Abram
    Warren
    Wendell
    Leroy
    Steed

    Still out are

    Dutson
    Merril

  302. I just got some info/story that Isaac Jeffs is running the show in CCA for WSJ, one of Warren’s brothers,full/half brother IDK, isn’t he the one driving the red Escalade in Las Vegas when Warren,Naomi & him where pulled over in 2006??other-Anon

  303. Yep, that was Isaac. Creepy as hell.

    Some joker is selling 9 volumes of Rulon Jeffs sermons on ebay:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Sermons-of-Rulon-Jeffs-FLDS-Prophet-History-of-Priesthood-Polygamy-Mormon-/160858199480?pt=Antiquarian_Collectible&hash=item2573e555b8

  304. Isaac Jeffs in all his creepy glory:

  305. Here’s news on the DOJ lawsuit against the FLDS and the crooked cops they control. The SLtrib reports that the case of Cookes against the the FLDS has been transferred to the DOJ case against.

    Also of interest the DOJ has successfully arranged for a federal judge from Alaska to try the case, no Utah or Arizona ties. The SL Trib reports this judge presided over Exxon Valdez case. IMO it would appear the FLDS are facing a no nonsense hanging judge, he nailed Exxon to the wall, FLDS next!

    Read Trib article:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/54688273-185/case-judge-discrimination-cases.html.csp

  306. I doubt Isaac is running things in CCA. He doesn’t have enough sense to take care of business. Warren knows that.

  307. From the fed court docket it appears that a motion for joiner has been filed by USA regarding the Cooke action but it has not actually been joined and the motion has not yet been ruled on. Anybody know different? Presumably if the Cooke action is joined, the opposite action against them might be also. A joinder actually would kind of make sense to me.

  308. I see that the Rulon sermons have been marked down 50% and that someone made an offer (undisclosed amount) two days ago that was declined.

  309. CNN reports on FLDS in “short creek”.

    http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/08/14/tonight-on-ac360-policing-polygamy/?hpt=ac_mid

    A very interesting report on police in FLDS controlled towns.

  310. CNN reports on FLDS – new SHERIFFS in town!

    http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t3#/video/us/2012/08/15/ac-pkg-tuchman-policing-polygamy.cnn

  311. Please continue your discussion in the General Discussion #79 thread.

    https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2012/08/15/general-discussion-79-what-are-you-doing-about-it/

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