General Discussion #72 – Jessop vs Jeffs

Continued from General Discussion #71

Willie Jessop’s lawsuit vs. Warren and Lyle Jeffs, and John Wayman

Of all the legal documents ever filed in this ongoing saga… This is one of the better reads.

Click this:


~ by FLDS TEXAS on February 16, 2012.

401 Responses to “General Discussion #72 – Jessop vs Jeffs”

  1. My favorite line in the Complaint:

    “…Jessop became privy to significant facts and information relating to Warren Jeffs and certain activities of other church leaders, including facts and information that were highly scandalous in nature — some of which have never been made public.”

    Do tell, Willie.

  2. I like the list of Defendants, but why doesn’t the complaint list the names of the 25 Does?

  3. I am guessing of course as I always do. I would think the 25 does are his former employees.

    for fear that i stated the obvious I will say that I did not read the document.

    If its true then it would easy to make that list. Take a list of bible names then randomly assign last names like jessop steed and allred. Theres your list lol.

  4. OO, true on coming up with the list of names. But, in this case some of the Does are the priesthoodlums that are terrorizing him and him family. Your buddies that followed you around in the “follow the leader” intimidation tactic you mentioned. aka enforcers, Local LE, Willie’s thug replacements, etc.

  5. There’s a chance only 2 years was paid in property taxes, but that doesn’t include the total 4 years owed so 2 more years haven’t been paid & are still owed, including fees wages to Wisan, & shareholders in AZ ,who have stocks in the UEP ,paying for 2 years is good but the other 2 have to be paid for, WSJ / Lyle can’t get away with not paying them, if they think they & the sheeple can, “you can’t fix stupid “, hopefully the local LE will be de-certified & we get the county police ….other-Anon

  6. Why did willie not call out the god squad by name if they are the does. I understand leaving former employees as does for sake of the future endevours. But godsquad are diehards. There’s little to no hope in a patch between him and them. Or maybe i’m simply not seeing everything.

    we all know willie has the names.

  7. “Does” should be any other person they wish to name at a later date, but names not available at the time of filing.

  8. Well, you all make sense. I guess it’s a matter of wait & see, eh?

    OO, I did hear that there were 25 employees involved in walking off the R&W premises with Lyle.

    Oh, and I’d love to have the names on the God Squad. Maybe I could concoct a little of my own brand of tit-for-tat harassment for certain members. 😉

  9. Also interesting is that Willie said he was ex’ed in February, 2011 but it was not until April 6, 2011 that the raid on his business happened. Slower reprisal than I would have expected.

  10. I might be mistaken Watergirl, but I think April 2011 is when Willie was in Texas for something dealing with Warren, Wendell or Merril.

  11. I’m sure its quite the list Ejay. Problem with godsquad is that theres some actual appointed godsquad then theres the 40 or so wannabe godsquad. Sometimes its hard for me to tell wich is wich anymore. Either way thats alot of gift baskets lol

    I did have a funny thought though. Maybe i should apply at the sherifs office and volenteer to be posted in colorado city so i can pull some of the former police officers over for no reason at all and give them the “its my word against yours” line lol

  12. OO, I like that idea. Better than anything I can concoct. I’ll admit, I’m not ready to apply at the sheriff’s office myself.

  13. It wont work. I don’t have a big enough ego to be a cop. Plus i don’t have anything to prove and we all know how I feel about law enforcement lol.

    I did however get another idea. We need to get a bunch of equal rights activist because there are no female members of the godsquad. I think its sexist lol.

  14. I think it’s a great idea OO. You should be the anti-Warren/Lyle squad.

    If EJay will volunteer, I will too. We can hire Gloria Stenheim to represent us.

  15. Sorry PT i don’t have that kind of time to patrol that much ignorance and stupidity. That place/those people sucked up over 20 years of my life. They don’t need anymore of it.

  16. Cant be as pestered as Willie Jessop.

    That said, he shouldnt be surprised, he has done the same to other unfortunate believers who had their own personal “Come to Jesus” revelations over the years.

  17. As an ex-govt intelligence officer, who also carries a few big guns, I can drive a huge ass truck with tinted windows and a few rifle racks on the back. AND I am female…………….That could be interesting. Yee Haw

  18. OO, as you said earlier – for Willie – what goes around comes around.

  19. I think it’s a great idea OO. You should be the anti-Warren/Lyle squad.

    If EJay will volunteer, I will too. We can hire Gloria Stenheim to represent us.

    Proud Texan said this on February 16, 2012 at 3:19 PM

    I don’t think Gloria Steinem is an attorney, PT. It would be terrific if she was.

  20. Well it’s Gloria somebody.

  21. Could you be thinking Gloria Allred?

  22. See, mc1199 knew who i meant.

  23. She’s not. Try Gloria Allred.

  24. Sorry, already uttered.

  25. I don’t know. You should see me in a prairie dress and Justin boots.

  26. As much as I sometimes dislike Ms Allred, and a few of the cases she takes on, it sure would be a hoot to see her take on a few cases in town and stare down the god squad if they tried to intimidate her! I’d even drive to CC/Hildale to watch it first hand!

  27. Oops, I meant “prairie skirt” rather than “prairie dress.” But Justin boots all the same!

  28. I love Justin boots and a prairie skirt.

    As for Gloria Allred, I feel the same way as mc1199. I don’t always like the cases she takes on, but I’d pay the price of admission to watch her take on the God Squad.

  29. FLDS resort to old “tried and true” tactics – go on a legal offense to intimidate. Countersuit in the corruption case in Mohave

  30. There has been over a week’s silence in the Winston Blackmore case. Anybody have a guess as to why?

  31. I was just coming to post that HHG. A suit I can get behind. Can you say civil trial and discovery in the same breath. What a bunch of idiots. I wonder if Pic doesn’t realize all the dirty laundry in the FLDS closet that can come out based on discovery. Oops.

  32. I would love to be present when they take the deposition of everyone. Plus, as said above, discovery open’s the door for all kinds of nonsense to be entered into the record. The counter suit may just open up a Pandora’s box of secrets and other church related issues that the FLDS may not want to be seen in the light of day. All of their financials could be called into question, “marriages”, etc., etc. Plus, depending on what information is brought out, each of the defendants could be opening themselves up to additional criminal proceedings. Don’t you just love a good soap opera?

  33. David Bistline was arrested yesterday by Hyrum Roundy. Does anyone know what this is about?

  34. Oh no, the Bistline who was just kicked out I guess. I don’t know. Hopefully not for squatting on his own property.

  35. Probably trumped up by the CC goons. Another fine example why that cluster needs to go yesterday.

    Shurtleff cant see it even though it smacks him upside the face. Maybe they are just going to keep acting crazy till the hammer drops.

    Expect nothing less.

  36. And that Ray Williams with the now cleared earlob spacers… Dude…

    Thats just not that attractive…

  37. Piccarreta and Darger’s attorney, Anne Chapman, argued that the fire district’s account is used to conduct day to day business, to pay for “small” expenses such as annual picnics, award banquets and for food and lodging for out-of-state fire training for its volunteers. They also said the county attorney’s office did not advise the defendants about the law.
    Ignorance of the law is still no excuse. Here is the affidavit of what they found. I don’t get how they will explain any of it away and I don’t get how there is grounds for a counter civil suit for questioning why government employees are buying the following:

    meals out every week, hams, candy, turbo tax, checks deposited into personal accounts in the amount of $10,000 and $20,000, costco/Sam’s Club purchase of a leather sofa, diapers, briefs,socks, mattress pads, king sheets, and the lists go on and on.

  38. No doubt the diapers and briefs were gifts for the annual awards banquet.

  39. Yeah, and what everybody was hoping to win, a copy of …

    . . . . . . drum roll!


  40. Mountain man / cabin burglar on the loose for five years near Shortcreek suspected as being a lost boy from the FLDS.

    Rather amazing story, not sure I buy that he is a lost boy but we might find out this summer, by which time I suspect they will catch him.

  41. The FBI thought this might be him but dont know. I think the picture is a close match.

  42. I read that this morning. If that guy is flds im going to pee myself laughing.

    I saw the picture. Didn’t look like anyone I know. Didnt have a whole lot of plyg features as far as I can tell. But if he is an ex plyg im thinking 2 things.

    Its good to see someone putting all those survival classes in school to work and why didn’t I think of that.

  43. HAW ! Yeah, five years living the life of Riley.

    Think he is cheating at survivor school though – the guy gets all the goodies and booze he can handle. Surprised he wasnt a 300 pound whopper. And so many guns he cant carry them all.

    He is finally getting some press, I think they will be after him as spring approaches.

    Anybody ready with the movie script?

  44. I’m sure as the time comes closer to these fools losing their badges there will be more and more sensless arrests. Thats the problem with being a follower. They always ask you to break the law then they have something to hover over your head. Not saying this was the case with david but it has happened in the past. I’m sure some of that will be brought out with the Willie/Warren thing.

    I would wager my wig that lyle does have dirt on willie and R&W. Let the mud slinging begin.

  45. Shazzam, if I had ticket moolah to get me arse out there to see some dame such as Gloria Allred take on flds abuses, y’all would have to pull out the straight jacket, sedatives, (and tasty snacks) to keep me from having too much durn fun with the whole thing, too. Talk about big times.

    P.S. – OO, I wanna see yiz wager yer wig. I love that expression. Never heard it before.


    Another link regarding Jason Derek Brown. As you scroll down to the bottom, check out the list of links on the right hand side. There are several on Mormon Fundalmentalist. I have not had time to read them yet, but thought they might be of some interest.


    Ahh, to be famous with your name in lights above….something, I guess.


    The truth about famous Mormons. I really appreciate all the info and stories that everyone is sharing. I did my Master’s Thesis on Cults and my theology teacher would not let me include FLDS. So, I became enamored of the “religion” and have tried to read everything that I can about it. Thank you to everyone for sharing, for your humour, your anger, and your remembrances.


    PS – please don’t hesitate to “suggest” that I do a little “undercover” research in regards to any concern with the FLDS, etc. My computers start getting mighty cranky if I don’t fire them up to full speed at least once a day! We can set up a private encrypted email account if necessary.

    Thanks! Enjoy your day,

  49. Funny links, PW.

    I think we’d all like to know why David Bistline DOB 10/23/1970 got arrested in Washington County yesterday if you can do anything there. If not, you might locate the rifle that shot Kennedy. 🙂

  50. I called the police station, and all that Jonathan Roundy would tell me was that it was for “trespassing”.

  51. Oh yeah, trespassing! That gets Roundy the plausible deniability he needs against a guy who was probably (just guessing!) trying to either collect his own belongings or see members of his family or both.

  52. How soon will these guys be decertified and how soon can the new cops arrive? It won’t be soooon enough!! Roundy, et al, are such a blight on humanity!

  53. That Brown guy is not a “lost boy.” And he doesn’t look flds to me either. Not at all. It’s more likely he’s a Gadianton Robber. 😉

  54. Dude’s mugshot was disturbing – he looks sad and older than his years. Lyle sucks.

  55. I meant Bistline, not Brown.

  56. Two notes.

    First, on Bistline. This smacks of such BS. I am irritated about this, because I think its trumped up BS and they actually processed him through regular “Law enforcement channels” which makes them an accessory to this crap.

    Really now. Think about it. The CC cops are STILL getting backed up by the corrupt system that lets them pull this BULLSHIT for how many years?


    Second. The mountain man identity is not known – if its Brown, he is former LDS and wanted for murder. If its NOT Brown it could be FLDS. Or not. Probably somebody on the run.

    After looking at pics, my guess is its Brown (despite the geniuses at the FBI thinking otherwise) and not a lost boy.

    That said, I tend to think they will be on him like a duck on a june bug this spring, giving us a good manhunt and IMHO we will find out soon enough.

  57. From the remarks on the Brown guy:

    Brown enjoys being the center of attention and has been known to frequent nightclubs where he enjoys showing off his high-priced vehicles, boats, and other toys. He has been described as possibly having bisexual tendencies.

    From that description it sounds like he possibly may be the long lost child of Kody Brown of the Sister Wives show.

  58. Okay, Miele, that’s funny.

  59. I talked to Jonathan Roundy too and I ended our little conversation with “I hope you guys are decertified soon so this crap doesn’t continue to happen. Oh, by the way, did the person occupying the property he supposedly trespassed on have a lease with Wisan? If not, you’d better hope like HELL no one finds out who they are because they are the ones trespassing”. With that he hung up on me.

    Guess I got my question answered about the lease. Can anyone around the Crick please get a copy of this arrest record. Please.

  60. Forgot that I told Jonathan to give my regards to Lyle earlier in the conversation. He tried to play dumb like he didn’t know who I was talking about.

  61. Much as we’d like to see it happen, I’m not terribly hopeful about the police force in the Crick being disbanded. Too many legal loopholes and gotchas exist for it to happen easily. I’m sure there a number of due process issues that have to be addressed. And somehow, I get a sense that the counties involved don’t really want to have to deal with that town. Mark it down; there’ll be a lot of foot-dragging on all sides. I’d love to be pleasantly surprised, though.


    old cases on Bistline. Still waiting to hear from Mohave regarding new case.


    This is a CNN transcript of several stories. About two thirds down is a story about Bistline losing his family. I am still checking arrest records.


  64. Thanks PW, and one of our favorite local judges too!


    Bistline records to date

  66. Resurgence of Judge K makes miss Fred!

  67. “makes me miss Fred.” Doh!


    BISTLINE, CHARLES ANTHONY Birth Date: 05/02/63 Address : PO BOX, Colorado City, UT Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency 13:02:39 12/02/11 Johnson, Samuel HILD Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid 53-3-227(2) DL SUSPEND/NON DRUG O CM WCJ2 300.00 [No Payments Made] WARRANT-CASH WARRANT-CASH ONLY BM WCJ6 1150.00 [No Payments Made] WARRANT-CASH WARRANT-CASH ONLY BM WCJ7 […]

  69. Interesting. This book on the LeBaron group by Tom Liddiard was published last year but I didn’t know about it until now. It’s published “in answer to” Cult Insanity.

  70. Anybody remember arguing with the “Grits for Breakfast” guy back in the days right after the raid? He’s in the news of late.

    I notice that he has been extremely quiet about the FLDS once the actual evidence started to surface.

  71. Interesting tidbit:

    Twitter has a tweet from Jason Rose, a public relations guy, who says the flds want to fight against decertification of the Colorado City police department and are looking for a lobbyist. I wonder how often the flds hires lobbyists and if the lobbying is successful.

  72. So much for the flds mantra, “Answer them nothing,” — IF it’s true.

  73. Doesn’t Liddiard have s quote or chapter in Priesthood expounded?

  74. Yes, PW. Also, he has authored other books and pamphlets documenting the CFBFT doctrine.

  75. Does anyone know (positively..) if Alvin Barlow Sr. has been kicked out ?

  76. Elizabeth Smart who was kidnapped by Brian David Mitchell as a “plural wife”, got married for real in Hawaii today in a private ceremony in Hawaii.

  77. People magazine picked up on the story as well:,,20571945,00.html

  78. You know I’m sure that Ross Wesley LeBaron Sr. and his first wife kidnapped teenage girls for the same purpose. They were caught, tried, and testified.

  79. Jason Derek Brown is not FLDS, but a “vanilla” Mormon of the Salt Lake City variety. He was brought up in Southern California, by a fairly wealthy “standard” LDS family. He has a brother in the San Diego area still. Don’t know if his parents still claim him. He was most assuredly excommunicated, but no record of that or the original reason has come to light. His “mission” activity was in France.

    If you see him, tell him not to keep himself hid so much. A “few” people are looking for him. Tell him he’s a real popular guy, as most “malignant narcissists” think they are. His “room” is ready and waiting for him.

  80. Thanks for the info DS

    Looking at your site, it seems you feel he is the same guy on the mountain?

    To me the features match, and he has the skill set… yet this is an odd duck who can live 5 years on the mountain with no human contact while hiding from the law.

    I dont see how the FBI discounts him, unless they pulled good prints off handled goods and as noted none of them match.

    Maybe he is real careful about leaving prints.. as that is what identified him the first time.

    Anyway I would like to think they get around to rounding this guy up when the weather opens up a bit.

  81. I’d love to hear what an FLDS lobbyist has to say. How do they get around the fact that the “policemen” are breaking the law by being polygamists.

  82. Don’t know for sure, but Mountain Man’s actions are in line with Jason’s attitude. I doubt the FBI would let us know there is a link of any kind at this point. I also believe the guy at the “Vegas SNAFU” is a real close match-up. At that time there had been a lapse in activity and many had all but forgotten about Jason, so it didn’t surprise me that he may have “tested the water” by showing up at the Hard Rock Hotel. His arrogance was so typical. I watched the video (the source of the look-alike clips) so many times I could recite it visually in my own mind. True-TV took that episode down from their site only a few days after I posted the pics on Some Things Ain’t Funny. Both Mountain Man and Hard Rock Man could be one in the same. Some say Hard Rock Man was shorter than Jason. I would have to see proof of that.

  83. PT

    Losing the police force will be huge just like losing the UEP. Maybe we will get some serious double whammy action here, to top off Warren going to prison.

    Sometimes a little thing like getting convicted for child molestation and getting sent to prison for life makes it harder to ignore the crimes of the family.

  84. DS

    I’m not getting the feeling Hard Rock man is him tho… seems to have darker hair and appears shorter to others in the pictures which. Plus in 2009 mountain man was up on the mountain… unless he made road trips?

    ha ha

    A good mystery… would like to see it solved this year.

  85. The area in Utah where Mountain Man was caught on video, is only an hour’s drive or so to Vegas. As you will note he had a “buddy” of what looked to be Hispanic decent. With the money he took, plus what ever extra he may have accumulated, it would be easy to get “shortening surgery”, especially in Mexico. Remember, Jason is a “User”, always has been. There’s no evidence that he was not able to leave the mountains occasionally over a period of time. Remember he was only there in the winter during which time the area was normally closed due to snow, etc. At this point, I believe anything is possible with this guy. He’s a very ingenious individual, what’s worse, he knows it. This guy thrives on other people’s gullibility, (and stupidity). Living in danger is actually rewarding to him. That’s how he gets his “rush”!

  86. “I’d love to hear what an FLDS lobbyist has to say. How do they get around the fact that the “policemen” are breaking the law by being polygamists.”
    Proud Texan said this on February 19, 2012 at 9:35 AM

    Do we know whether any of the “policemen” in question actually have more than one wife? It occurs to me that it’s possible (after the R.Holm case) they aren’t polygamous other than in their beliefs. Is it possible that for his own purposes Warren has kept them out of the line of legal fire by keeping them “monogamous?” Just curious if anyone knows.

  87. EJ, you don’t think the FLDS would let a little thing like the law get in their way do you?

    To answer your question, Jonathan Carl Roundy has 2 wives. His brother Hyrum appears to just have one. I’m not sure who the other officers are. Give me names and I’ll look them up.

  88. BTW, Jonathan Roundy is a full brother to J Dee who Warren tried to throw under the bus.

  89. DS

    Shortening surgery sounds a little extreme. Plus, the hair and general facial features dont match too well.

    Its about three hour drive from his location to Las Vegas, I checked. Still, thats close enough for a weekend or whatever, but he also has to get a ride..

    Seems kind of like a weird lifestyle…


    Bistline was arrested for trespassing. I haven’t found a court date yet, but I would assume that it will be on Monday.


    OOPs, he is also charged with assault.


    Another article on disbanding the police


    Article regarding Jeff’s and “doomsday” prediction.

  94. Rick Ross has compiled an amazing amount of stuff but to my knowledge stays silent with his opinion.

  95. A. From what I’ve found, he’s been in three different areas of South Utah, two different parks, and anywhere in between during the period before they got this last evidence of him. B. Shortening isn’t all that big a deal anymore, and C. You must remember, this guy doesn’t think like a “normal” person, i.e.,
    these latest warnings to the others, “stay of my mountain.” This guy is still out to get his kicks. That’s his make up. That having been said, I’ll still give you the benefit, there’s still no telling who Mountain Man is, but in this day and age, nothing is impossible anymore. (This isn’t “Law and Order” or “CSI”), things real do happen differently than on television. Not everything is reported either. Jason still has many contacts, I’m sure, who owe him. He’s always got something hanging over somebody’s head for leverage, I’m sure, or at least they think he does.

  96. PW, I found out that it was his brother Lyndon’s house where he trespassed. I’m checking to see if Bubba Lyndon has a lease with Wisan. If he doesn’t then he’s the actual person trespassing.

  97. I don’t show a Lyndon. Who’s his mommy?

  98. Lyndon’s mommy is Elaine Jessop. His wife is Juanita Barlow who is the daughter of Dan Barlow.

    As for the question about Alvin Smith Sr., my best information is that he is in but doesn’t have his family.

  99. Fishing Report

    10 days out fishing. Frogs are dead. The birds ate the worms. Beer is gone. My chair fell into the lake. And the fish are swimming in circles. 😦 Despicable Me Funny Yellow Aliens

    Let me know when my fishing trip is over so I can start asking questions again.

    PS. Mountain man looks like Prince Harry gone bad.

  100. I was just wondering about you, Walton. Put the time to good use I see. You can’t believe the weird bait we used to use. But this is Idaho.

  101. Walton – your sense of humour brightens my day. You should write a book! Thanks for keeping the topics at hand lively and interesting! I often share your comments with my fellow “spies”!


  102. Thanks for the mama info, anon, I MUST keep the family members straight (and narrow if possible).

  103. I am no writer but I sure do appreciate those that do.

    Third cousin – I’ve been thru Idaho a couple of times and all I ever got were a couple of speeding tickets.

    I’ve been reading the board. But I told Oz that I would go fishing. So.. I’ll post again in 10 days. Everyone keep posting and sharing.


  104. I am confused

    Are you saying that the guy recently arrested was the guy just highlighted in Anderson Cooper report?

    would anderson cooper be interested in knowing this?

  105. RebeccaKimbel has been posting youtube programs with interviews of Irene Spencer. I never read Irene’s books yet- After reading several books by former plygs I had to give it up for my nerves’ sake for awhile.
    I am sure her books are good, because her interviews with RebeccaK are very enlightening- more”tiny” details of plyg daily living, treament of women, attitudes she witnessed growing up in group, etc.

  106. Mom, Irene’s books are very good. Susan Ray Schmidt’s book is too. Both highlight life in Colonia LeBaron.

    HHG, I think he’s been notified, but I’ll check and make sure.

  107. Jeremy Johnson said to have hidden another 51 million – Feds

  108. I thoroughly enjoyed Irene Spencer’s accounts, as well as Susan Schmidt’s. I am currently reading “Shedding Light” by Tom Liddiard, published last year, which is an interesting indictment of Spencer’s “Cult Insanity.”

  109. I’m still trying to digest “Phood Expounded.”

  110. I guess I’d better read that one too. How bad can it be if it’s only 56 pages? You can download the full text of it off the mormonfundamentalism website.

  111. Regarding the mountain man: Don’t hold your breath on them catching him this spring. When Eric Rudolph (Atlanta Olympic bomber and abortion clinic bomber) hid out in the Nantahala National Forest they spent a ton of time and effort to try to locate him. Each LE agency boasted they were better than the last at finding him. They knew who he was and yet, he was not found for 5+ years. He only got caught because he was dumpster diving behind a grocery store in town in the middle of the night. A newbie cop just happened to drive up and catch him in the act.

    I remember when Osama Ben Laden was in Afghanistan and they went after him I thought then if they can’t find Eric then it will not be easy to catch Ben Laden despite their best efforts. That too took many years. So I am not expecting them to find this guy any time soon. Hope I am wrong.

  112. I’m reading the Shedding Light book too and while it’s all well and good for him to cite baptismal records and other church records, it’s still his word against theirs (mainly Irene). Those records aren’t in such a place that I can go and examine them myself.

  113. They could fly over the area and visit cabins with smoke. They could have him next week. I just dont think they have even tried yet.

  114. Stake out all the cabins with armed FBI “couples”! 🙂

  115. Hope that Brian David Mitchell is forced to watch videos like the following:

    Perhaps he will realize that he was no more married to his victim than Warren Jeffs was married to his 12 & 14 year old victims. May Mitchell remain forever in the cell o steel kingdom.

  116. Since several people have posted speculations about who the mysterious mountain man who broke in to cabins, well he’s not a fundie, he’s a crook named Troy Knapp.

    Here’s more:

  117. Coming up on @fox13now @ 9: An ex-FLDS man wins in a paternity lawsuit against #WarrenJeffs! EXCLUSIVE details… #Utah

  118. Holm won partial visitation tonight. His case opens the doors for hundreds of potential lawsuits involving ex-FLDS men kicked out. #Utah

  119. Here’s my story on the first of what could be a flood of lawsuits against #WarrenJeffs by ex-FLDS members: #Utah

  120. Still fishin’. I casted out and am watching the bopper but I don’t think I am going to get anything as I didn’t put a hook on the end.

    PW? squeeky shoes?


  121. Walton, but did ya use peanut butter?

  122. Third Cousin, I’ve been fishing for a long long time. There isn’t much I haven’t tried.

    Sometimes going fishing isn’t so much about the fish a person can catch but the sounds one hears as the wind blows thru or watching the wheat in the fields across wave that magical wave.

    One ugly pickup truck made out of steel and a big ugly dog looking out the window, a cooler and 2 fishing poles. Sometimes bait and sometimes no bait.

    Nothing fancy except for my fishing hat. lol Sometimes it is the simple things in life that just makes everything alright.

  123. Thanks for the link pw. Great news about Lorin Holms suit. Hope it is the first of many. Warren should not be allowed to decide visitation and custody rights when he forces a man and his “wife” to separate. Those decisions must be handled by the civil authorities.


    Here is Winslow’s story/interview. He is predicting more lawsuits against Jeff’s.


    Guess the LDS church is still at it again?


    Story in the Spectrum about Lorin’s case. If you can’t see it, google “Father receives visiting rights.

  127. Hey Anon was going to post the same St. George version of the Holm article.

    It contains quite a lot more information…

  128. Guess the LDS church is still at it again?

    PW said this on February 22, 2012 at 6:13 AM

    IMO it’s not the church per say, but ill informed members of church who do such things. Even the church owned KSL has posted an article condemning this behavior.

    IMO the church needs to do a better job of educating it’s members on this subject.

  129. The policy of the church is that you submit only your ancestors for proxy baptsms. As the church replied: “It takes a lot of deception and willful disregard of policy” for things like Anne Frank’s baptism to take place. I do think the policies should be emphasized again to all church members. Don’t know if they could put in place an IT system that would red flag names that should not be baptized, The current system is that if a member has some names they want to submit they take them to their local LDS temple and do the work there. To my understanding there is not a central clearing or check list in the current system.

  130. Whoa

    It took years for the cops to find this guy’s identity? Pretty funny.

  131. sltrib article on him

  132. Chemist, when you take the bus up to the ski slopes in either Big or Little Cottonwood canyon(can’t remember which one) the bus driver points out the gated entrance to the LDS massive computer center where they keep all the electronic records for the membership in an underground secured vault. Maybe it only goes into the computer after baptism not before. But, they certainly have the capability to manage it.

  133. Radkey said versions of Frank’s name have been submitted at least a dozen times for proxy rites and the ordinance has been performed at least nine times from 1989 to 1999.

    So why is it that people keep baptizing the same person over and over again? Why do they not check before going through the effort? Radkey has no problem checking. I don’t believe in it but, as a logistics expert I don’t get the waste of energy spent by LDS memebership.

  134. Rod Parker, an attorney for Holm’s ex-wives, Patricia and Lynda, said the entire FLDS community was being portrayed unfairly because of Jeffs’ actions.

    This just cracks me up! Your defense is that your client’s prophet is painting all who follow him in the same light!! really!

  135. As far as I know Watergirl the flds have pulled clear out of Little Cottonwood Canyon. Thats where Alta Academy was and Rulon Jeffs Home. As well as Warrens Home.

  136. OO, I was referring to Chemist comment regarding LDS keeping track of baptisms. LDS has a big computer underground there.

  137. ah gotcha. I missread.

  138. They run a big old Compuserve cluster in there.

  139. I wonder if God has a username and password to this database so he can see who he needs to let into heaven.

    Username: God
    Password: Alpha&Omega

  140. Yeah, and whether to shuttle them to Terrestrial, Telestial, or Celestial.

  141. Doesn’t the lack of a central computerized database on members (dead, current, future) and temple rituals tell you something? It doesn’t matter to the LDS leadership, because they know it’s all bogus. The main purpose for the huge vaults is to contain all the documents and evidence they have gathered through the years that would expose the LDS church’s lies. The temples and the secrecy around the rites are just mechanisms to keep the faithful obedient (especially with their tithings!) and non-questioning. You just have to look to Warren Jeffs and his use of the temple and the way he used that temple to control and manipulate his followers… a mirror of what the LDS church does to its followers.

  142. wonder if God has a username and password to this database so he can see who he needs to let into heaven.
    Username: God
    Password: Alpha&Omega
    Overlord Offtopic said this on February 22, 2012 at 1:15 PM

    LOL, I thought that was St. Peter’s job to sit at the pearly gates. But, what do I know, I didn’t grow up LDS or FLDS.

  143. St. Peter is the security gaurd but the authority has to come from the G man in other words approved by the CEO.

    But in LDS/FLDS it would be

    Username: Micheal
    Password : Lucifer_Sucks

    But hes not the CEO if i remember right that would be Elohim (forgive me if I spell it wrong).

    There would also be 3 different criteria for membership. (Wich is why they would need the database). I can see the sql command now


  144. too funny OO!

  145. Kinda funny one’s name needs computer crunching before the soul gets a go ahead.

    Kinda puts an interesting light on this practice.

    Is there a web portal for shortcuts?

    BBS? Dial up version for geezers? Wifi anyone up there yet?

    email lists of who naughty and who is nice?

    St Peter get Spammed much?


    Watch out LDS computers!


  148. Sadly, getting a visitation order does not always mean getting to see the children. It will be interesting to see if he does get to see them, especially if he has to rely on the local LE to enforce the order.

  149. Interesting court document, 1998, regarding Aaron LeBaron.

  150. Chaps – Hysterical! Is there a Google Privacy policy for GOD? Does she use Bing instead?


    Authorities traced Mountain Man Troy Knapp’s parents phone.


    Mug shots

  153. Troy James Knapp
    Gender: Male
    Age: 44
    Height: 5′ 11″ (1.80 m)
    Weight: 150 lb (68 kg)
    Race: WHITE
    Hair Color: RED OR AUBURN
    Eye Color: BLUE
    Citizen: N/A
    COB: Michigan
    Booking Number: 9402116
    SOID: 193656
    State ID: N/A
    FBI: N/A
    Location: MAIN
    Housing Section: N/A
    Housing Block: N/A
    Cell Assigned: N/A
    Bed: N/A
    Booking Date: 2/02/1994
    Release Date: 2/02/1994
    County: SALT LAKE
    Names / Aliases: N/A
    Detainers: N/A

    Old record from Michigan.

  154. Does anyone know what happened with Thelma Chynoweth? I am halfway thru Prophet of Blood and am curious to learn more about the Chynoweths. Thanks!

  155. mc1199, I’d hate to be in the mother’s shoes at the next hearing if the visitation doesn’t take place.

  156. Another article about the Holm hearing.

    If you can’t see it, google Man exiled from FLDS and it should come up as the 1st link.

    I am interested in the Suzette Steed who gave sworn testimony and how she had to be smuggled out. I wonder if she was able to take her 6 daughters out.


    The clock is ticking, tic toc, tic toc.


    US v. Barlow

    Douglas Barlow appeal at the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals


    In this direct criminal appeal, we are called upon for the first time to interpret the reach of 18 U.S.C. § 247. In particular, we are asked to rule whether, as used in that statute, “the free exercise of religion” comprehends not only the right actively to select and practice the religion of one’s choice, but also the right passively to refrain from practicing a particular religion or to disassociate one’s self from one’s former religion. We hold that the concept of “the free exercise of religion” is sufficiently broad to encompass both choices, active practice and passive disassociation.


    This may have already been posted in the past. If so, I apologize, but I found it interesting and educational.

  160. PT –

    Comments of President Warren Jeffs
    Suzette Steed just called, wife of Carling Steed,
    ready to flee to Canada to apostatize, claiming her
    husband is very harsh. I convinced her to stay in
    Short Creek. We would put her in a house by
    herself with her children.

    November 17, 2002

  161. Modern Polygamy in the United States.

    A link to the book for those that wish to read it on line instead of purchasing.

  162. For those who have money to spare –



  165. Holey Crap. If I knew my student star and priesthood history books would be worth over a grand I would have packed them when I left.

  166. OO – I know! Isn’t that amazing. I don’t see that anyone has bid yet, but the list of Mormon/LDS books was interesting also. The store is out of Arizona. Wonder who owns it? Hmmmm…………here goes my curiosity again!


  167. Laura Lounsbury, Flagstaff, Arizona. Familiar to anyone?

  168. Another news story about Mountain Man –

  169. Does anyone have access to the FLDS Legal blog with TxBluesMan? Is it still in existence?

  170. I guess I didnt have quite the collection as that ebay auction. I had quite a few student star volumes, Teachings of the prophet joseph smith, In light and truth, LSJ Sermons, RTJ sermons.

    I simply had no use for it where I was going so I just left them there.

    I didn’t have any tapes. I would have brought morning class tapes with me as a sleeping aid. “Keep Sweet” tapes were horrible. My coworkes listened to them alot. As I was forced to listen i couldnt help but think……….im now begining to understand why terrorist blow crap up.

  171. I can’t imagine having to listen to those tapes. I walked out of my church after being confirmed at 14 (required by my parents in order to quit). Never went back. I let my children decide if they want to attend a church or pursue a religion. Both are now atheists! Makes for very interesting conversations at the dinner table.

  172. Does anyone have access to the FLDS Legal blog with TxBluesMan?

    Last I heard, his blog was closed. I haven’t kept up, so I’m not sure if he has another, somewhere else. But,I miss his postings.

  173. Coram non judice is down for now. Dont know if he will bring it back up.

    Here is an interesting post on a Lounsbury in the area.

  174. From the SLTrib new revelations from that felonious profit Warren Jeffs.

    Contains the usual let Warren Jeffs lose or else, ho hum, as well as racist sounding language about mixed marriages, and demand that sex education end. No threats of natural disasters etc.for a change.

    IMO dude’s mind not firing on all cylinders.

  175. Opinion piece from the Trib:

    On subject of Warrens latest “revelation” and the state of sex education in Utah.

  176. After the 50th “holy” in this last revelation (sometimes there are 5 or more “holies” in one sentence), I quit reading. However, he uses the word “holy” 179 times in this “revelation”. Sounds like the holes in his head are leaking.

  177. Elizabeth Smart who was kidnapped by polygamist Brian David Mitchell will be in San Angelo, Texas. A guest of the Laura W. Bush Institute for Women’s Health presents Elizabeth Smart, a story of abduction and survival on April 17, 2011

    This will be at McNease Convention Center .

    Hope that when she is down here in Texas that someone will perhaps give her an aerial tour of YFZ.

  178. Some of warren’s “revelations” are almost unitteligible. I trhink he is losing his mind and his grasp of reality. Thanks for counting the holys. saved me the bother.

  179. I just ran “find” through the document and it came up with that number. Let the computer do the mindnumbing work … LOL..

  180. Whats holy are the air spaces between the iron bars in his CelloSteel Kingdom.

    Glad to hear he is having such a hellaciously holy time!

  181. Besides being extra creepy, Warren is doubly redundant.

    Hes got 179 Holys, 58 Amens and only 8 repents.

    I did the math.

    Warren isnt repenting NEARLY enough!


    Rubio was once Mormon?

  183. Just got my daily GG! (good grief!) moment:

  184. Wonder of ol’ Warren knows what Transvaginal means?

  185. With 79 wifes and hours of tape, Warren has probably tried everything, though he didnt know why, just that it looked cool on those motel XXX movies.

  186. WSJ Revelation:

    “Come ye, all Israel, to be gathered home.
    I make a way of your escape.”

    That scares me. Wonder what the way is?

  187. Good find 3C

    Odd how he can just fold in a subtle suicide note in there like its yesterdays toast.

  188. 17. I am of the power to exalt all men unto
    Godhood who abide Celestial holy Law of Plural
    Union Marriage by my appointing.

    18. Let not any deride.


    Ya gotta be kidding us Warren! Act like a BOZO and people will laugh!

    Circus jerk!

  189. 24. Let adultery be no longer a Way of the


    Speak for yourself Warren, you have one wife and 78 adulterous relationships.

    Thats pretty ambitious if I say so myself!

  190. 22. My way is to live on earth in holy power of faith living.


    No, Warren, your way is to serve a life sentence in prison for child molesting.

    Did not your crappy cult cartoons come from there?

    “Palestine, Texas”


  191. Here’s a copy of the Austin court’s ruling on Lehi Barlow Jeffs’ conviction: @fox13now #FLDS #polygamy #Utah

  192. man are you good pw,
    here is another link

  193. Subject: Colorado City / Hildale cop De-certification

    When former Officer Rodney Holm was tried in Utah a few years ago for bigamy / rape (don’t recall exact charges), he was found guilty and de-certified as a flds cop.

    Which state and entity executed his de-certification? Was it Arizona or Utah?

  194. Both

  195. Anon @ 2:40 – not that I don’t believe you, but do you have any research you could share on the decertification of Rod Holm?


    This says they were decertified in Arizona and the Utah law which bars peace officers who have been decertified in another state took the Utah cert away.

  197. Here’s a copy of the Austin court’s ruling on Lehi Barlow Jeffs’ conviction: @fox13now #FLDS #polygamy #Utah

    PW said this on February 24, 2012 at 12:45 PM

    hey Walton! Your white hat guys were vindicated from all those who claim the search at YFZ was illegal. Where are the naysayers now??

  198. What can be said ? You can’t fix stupid !!!! lol….other-Anon

  199. Thanks Anon and PT. I wonder if that’s how it will go down again if AZ successfully de-certifies the current crick “peace officers.”

  200. I believe it was Utah that decertified Rodney Holm. I remember him having to do time in Purgatory there in Hurricane. I dont think he actually did time. If I remember right it was one of those stay away from these people and come get booked on the weekend deals.

    As far as I know Rodney took it like a man for the most part. Could be wrong.

  201. Watergirl, they don’t really wear white hats. In the winter it’s usually a silver belly felt and in the summer it’s straw.

  202. yes, I know am sure. But, Walton always refers to his/her buddies as “the guys in the white hats.”


    just saw this on Twitter. Utah now at the 11th hour wanted AZ to pay for half of Wisan’s fees. Lindberg said too late Utah – should have asked a long time ago.

  204. Also found this interesting on Twitter:

    Sam Brower ‏ @SamBrowerpi
    #WarrenJeffs latest prophecy states “I make a way of your escape” if I were the #FLDS people I would take it and run like the wind.

    Expand Close Reply RetweetedRetweet

  205. Anon 1:58 pm – Thanks. Not so much good as just plain persistent. I am one of those people you don’t say “nope, can’t do it” too. Stubborn! hee hee


    FLDS Member, Ex-Cop Sues Over Job Loss

  207. FLDS Member, Ex-Cop Sues Over Job Loss


    Sept 2009 – Barlow sues over job loss


    2009 Barlow suing due to be decertified.


    Barlow’s lawsuit regarding de-certification.


    National Police Decertification Index. Unfortunately, you need to be a sworn officer to access this index. Don’t know if anyone here is an officer and wants to give it a try? My security clearance won’t allow me access.


    Excel sheet of police officer issues, lawsuits, etc., by city, county, state. The right hand column has a synopsis. You will need to put the http link into your web browser to open up the attachment or news story.

  213. One thing I have not yet understood about Warren’s revelations, is he told these underaged girls they had to perform sexually for him in order for him to receive revelation from heaven. Without a quorum of seven underaged girls assisting him with sex so he can cross the veil to receive revelation, how is he receiving all these revelations while in prison.

  214. I can think of several responses, not too many fit for mixed company, but I will just say its evident he is getting his fix somehow.

  215. Several have posted about Lehi Jeffs losing his appeal, and reading the court ruling, IMO Jeffs is where belongs, in prison. Funny part he’s now pushing broom in the cellblock, he’s the janitor.

    Read more from San Angelo paper:


    “In the craggy desert of northern Mexico, presidential hopeful Mitt Romney’s relatives turned an arid valley into lush agricultural land and prospered after being chased from the United States for their Mormon beliefs.”

  217. yes, I know am sure. But, Walton always refers to his/her buddies as “the guys in the white hats.”

    watergirl said this on February 24, 2012 at 5:28 PM

    I have said that and continue to say that. In my eyes these guys and gals are also 10 feet tall. Everyone needs to see and feel good about those that protect us. People need to know who they can count on.

    They stood up and took the call for help and they responded. And they never once tried to hide behind anything. I still say that every state needs at least 2 Texas Rangers. People that stand up and do what they say they are going to do and then do it.

    Sometimes the information that is provided here and other sites show up on this thing called Squid (?). It doesn’t work real well on my computer. I try to scroll down and it jumps down 1 1/2 pages. Then I try to scroll back up and it jumps 2 pages. It took me a whole day to try and read something over at the Trib earlier this week. And I only got half way thru it. It was a story by Nate C.

    Is there another way to get this info? or what am I doing wrong? How can I make Squid (?) work for me?

  218. Walton –

    Your computer op system may not understand how to handle a Squid (squidoo) system. Here is a link in case you need to download

  219. Mike Watkiss documentary of the Jeffs trial:

  220. Page 4.

    The First Lie

    18. Plaintiff took the required oath, and at all times during the period of his employment with the Colorado City Marshal’s Office remained faithful to that oath to the best of his ability.


    No One has rights who violate others rights ~

    Helaman Barlow is sitting on books full of outrageous violations
    of Arizona and Utah Law. His job is to cook reports and hide truth.
    We had a mother attempt vehicular homicide on her son and nearly
    succeeded! The young boy 15-16 was bruised and bleeding when
    he got to our safe house. Guess who showed up to pick him up?
    Helaman.. the cleaner. We heard that they locked him in a room for
    two weeks after that incident. We have had no further contact.
    This is ONE of thousands of incidences that have been buried.

    Jonathan Roundy knows everything that goes on in his office and
    reports directly to Lyle Jeffs.

    The others know most of it, but are on lower security clearances.
    A Need to know basis. They are the eyes and ears …. reporting
    directly to Jonathan.

    Sam Johnson ( Orvals Son ) has already been ” handled ” .
    He showed up with his valuables several weeks ago and locked them
    up in a storage container and then dissapeared. He was not happy.

  222. Officers respond to suspected Mountain Man sightings reported in #CedarCity

  223. The link does not work, and may lead to a “bad site”.

  224. The link leads to a “bad site”. Do not click on it.

  225. HA!


    Did you see that link before you posted it? Some joke!

    Love the grenades being kept handy.

  226. Didnt see the posts. But I checked it, its a joke, dont think its malicious. Just a couple of pics of Russian or Eastern european military chaps on the prowl circa 1945 or so.

  227. Here’s some photos of Elizabeth Smart who went from Mitchell’s “plural wife” to being a real wife. Hope someone gives a copy to Mitchell, maybe he will bust a gut.,,20573533,00.html

    For all this FLDS types out there, this is what a real wedding is, one man & one woman, none of the phoney spiritual wife stuff. The woman in photos also helped get the federal laws relating to registering sex offenders passed, that will require those FLDS priesthoodlums when they complete there sentences at TDCJ to let LE know where they are or face a return to the cello steel kingdom!

  228. Well my link didn’t work, converted it to tiny URL:

    Here’s the original link:,,20573533,00.html

  229. Officers respond to suspected Mountain Man sightings reported in #CedarCity

    Sorry. I left the 3 off the end. Should work now. Oh dopey me?!

  230. Ok thats better… Funny how the wrong pic and the right pic resembled each other so much.

  231. HAHA! I didn’t look at the link after I posted. I usually do, but in my haste I overlooked that crucial step. The web site is funny. Russian guns and bombs! It is actually a site that makes fun of pictures, just like our I Can Has Cheezburger in the USA.

    Brain fart! 🙂

  232. More looney tunes from the FLDS, they are demanding that Mohave county in Arizona pay them 5 million dollars. Now if that’s no crazy I don’t know what is. Appears that ole Pick aka Mike Piccarreta is involved up to his eyeballs in this sordid mess!

    One thing about the FLDS, they never fail to surprise with the bizarre and strange.

    Check out the comment at end of article, this one hilarious:

    Oh fiddlefart,Uncle Warren used that “religious persecution” card to try and wiggle out of his exploitation and rape of little girls.This bunch of thugs think they are above the law because they belong to a so-called church and are protected by their religious “rights”.They all remind me of a turd that’s gotten too big to flush…but ya just have to keep trying.Otherwise it will just lay there and stink up the place.

  233. Non-profits say they’re getting calls that #WarrenJeffs is planning to kick more out of the #FLDS Church this week. @fox13now #Utah

    From Twitter. Here we go again with people being kicked out.

  234. Non-profits say they’re getting calls that #WarrenJeffs is planning to kick more out of the #FLDS Church this week. @fox13now #Utah


  235. #WarrenJeffs excommunicated 1,000+ people on New Year’s Day for various “sins.” @fox13now #Utah #polygamy

    Ben Winslow on Twitter

  236. Sources tell @fox13now that federal authorities have been questioning recently ex-communicated #FLDS members. @fox13now #Utah

    Ben Winslow Twitter

    My sources here in my “security world ” have picked up chatter about RICO investigations, tax evasion, and possible loss of religious status for tax breaks

  237. Feds won’t confirm/deny any investigation, some ex-#FLDS members “can’t say” if they’ve been questioned. @fox13now #Utah #polygamy

    Ben Winslow twitter

  238. Here my story on another possible purge (and federal investigation) into the #FLDS Church: @fox13now #Utah

    Ben Winslow twitter

  239. Looking forward to seeing who is being set free. Yes, the process is painful and difficult, but the freedom is so worth it. I just pray that the right resources for reclaiming their lives and families are there for them.

  240. good article – I agree anon 12:49 – hope the resources are there to help them free their minds and bodies….

  241. Thanks for the great links. Just when things seem to slow down BAM!

    Of course we have Wendell and the UEP going to court in March too.

    The UEP is in front of the 10th circuit court of appeals – they just censored Judge Dee Benson by slamming his friend into prison.

    (drug dealin killer and drug trading for sex Dewey Mackay)

    Benson wouldnt have sentenced him to squat if it hadnt been for mandatory min sentences. 20 years uh huh.

    Benson was actually apologizing to him for all the inconvenience and was allowing him to be out on bail while he appealed.

    Not now, he has to report to prison in a few weeks.

  242. BTW

    On the Ben Winslow fox13 link, gotta love the pic of Shortcreek “Courtesy of Sam Brower” over the town.

    Just love that!

    Shout out to SAM! You the man!

  243. And on leap year no less.

  244. FLDS is stacking dirt around walls of amphitheater. 30 plus feet high… outside walls are built and looks like two separate star cases on on each side for entering each level.. other than that .. nothing has changed enough to post new photos.


  245. First there is “Arab Spring”, now there will be an “FLDS Spring”!? This is going to get interesting. PW


    The Jeffs letters

  247. Thanks pilot for the update, makes one wonder what there end game is?
    Seems another purge is underway at “short creek”, once this purge is complete, what’s next? Will Warren the felonious profit & his brother Lyle the larcenous move the “true believers” to YFZ as Warren had written years ago? Once they are all at YFZ, another Jonestown or perhaps a Waco like confrontation..

  248. Cleansing

    Members are all trying to qualify …
    Those who have been chosen have been told they have made the cut.
    They are in charge of watching those who have not made it.
    If a wife for instance has made it… And the husband has not, The wife is
    free to move about, the husband is watched. He cant be alone with her
    without a third party in the room. They are living together this way and
    going bonkers one at a time.. hilarious actually BUT they are dead serious!

    They will do or say anything to gain approval.
    They will abandon themselves and others.
    They are completely committed …. ?

    One by one they break.
    This is the spell of a powerful wizard.. A word wizard.. WSJ
    They are under hypnosis .. like a sleep
    They wake up with their worlds on fire.. Everything is scattered
    Oh HOW they wish.. They wouldn’t have listened.

  249. I doubt this will be the last purge. They will keep purging untill they only have the crazy of crazies.

    The other thing is it is probable that one day Lyle himself will be purged. The problem with that is he will be replaced by some one more crazy than he is.

    I hope at least some of my family gets purged.

    If i had more motivation I could probably write a whole fictional book based off this crazy cult. It could have one of those cool endings that leave you hanging and hoping for a sequel……….that never comes lol

  250. OO – I would buy that book! You should consider writing it, but why fictional? Just change the names. I hope that if your family members are purged, they find peace and will be safe from the wrath of others.


  251. It’s unlikely that it’s the last purge because the purges are the prime means of control for those men who remain. The men control the women and the men are controlled by threat of exile.

  252. twitterL
    Paul Murphy ‏ @PaulMurphysLaw
    Latest #FLDS Warren Jeffs revelations to @MarkShurtleff: men & women must be separate at work, school & gatherings.Contraception is unholy.
    He is starting to sound like muslim sharia law –

  253. I think the original agreement with the G man was only 500 good preisthood men. Thats right God is a slave broker. lol

    I’m not writing any books about polygamy. I am however going to write a book on how much I like peanutbutter and jelly sandwiches.

  254. OO, I’ll volunteer editing services for anything you choose to write.

  255. I have tried to write a few books. Fictions and Sicfi mostly. I have the imagination but not the skill or motivation to do it.

    I can however send you something that i started to write and you can point and laugh at my poor spelling and grammar usage. lol

  256. Send away! And only at the most arrogant would I laugh at anyone’s writing (e.g., Warren Steed Jeffs) — that is unless humor is intended.

  257. OK all sent. Bear in mind that it is fiction but partially based off my own life experiences.

  258. Freedom of Information request regarding FLDS records from FBI

  259. I fell off my cooler reading the last post.

    At what date can I stop fishing?


  260. So how will it work with the UEP and Warren purging yet more and more of it’s members? Wisan can give someone a lease now. But, unless they completely disband the entire trust and give everyone a share of it – and those left start another trust… – I am wondering about it. How will they know who gets a slice?

  261. Walton – you can stop fishing now. If you need any help “baiting” your hook, let me know! 🙂


  262. I think the plan is to leave it a jumbled mess Watergirl.

    I always wondered if there could be some sort of deal to buy the land your house is on from the UEP then you yourself are responsible for the tax. I say land only because most people paid for the house just not the land.

    I realize this is not the most awesome plan for the fact of the house swapping that went on. Alot of people are not in the house they built. Alot of people inlcuding my family got downgraded.

    Just a thought.

  263. UEP Trust is active on Facebook. Not sure how many people already know this, it was a surprise to me.

  264. OO, your family should use the reverse domino effect and, if/when they get the chance, via the UEP, they should ‘upgrade’ back to their original house…if they still want it. Seems fair too me!

  265. I am so excited! PW in the one link you brought some guy was asking the FBI for information concerning the FLDS. I am sure that they will say that they are “still investigating”. But it got me to thinking.

    A long time ago I think it was FBI Mueller that said that he thought the two states could handle any issues that came up. etc.

    Utah has this GRAMA thing going on and a person is allowed access to information that you couldn’t get before. ( I waited for years for a call back on the court transcripts of the Mark Hacking case. I think I figured out the rest of that story, but I wanted to see the transcripts to back up my theory)

    Anyway. in your deep digging searches could you find out if there has been any other FBI person than Muller that has commented on this story? And if indeed they are investigating? And if anyone is in charge of the investigation?

    Also… does anyone know if the information found from the “Nevada stop” and the Texas raid is in the hands of the FBI in Texas or the FBI in Utah?
    And is the CIA involved? and what ever happened to the files that Parker was to share with the courts?

    I know this is a huge request but see what you can do.

  266. I don’t think Wisan can issue any new leases until after the Court of Appeals rules. If they rule in his favor then I think the land will be surveyed and distributed out in individual parcels, not the large chunks it is in now.

    If you want your fair share Brad you’d better get ready to say so.

    BTW, what was the deal with Angie’s leg last night? It kept popping out everywhere.

  267. Even more looney Warren Jeffs revelations from the SL Trib’s website:

    Ole Warren threatens Elissa Wall by name as well threatens Texas if he’s not released as should well as Merril the wife beater. Jeffs also threatens China.

  268. Here’s an opinion piece from the Trib with more on the latest ramblings of Jeffs.

    Appears it was Rebecca Musser, not Elissa Wall he threatens.

  269. Here is an actual Rick Santorum quote: “One of the things I will talk about, that no president has talked about before, is I think the dangers of contraception in this country.” And also, “Many of the Christian faith have said, well, that’s okay, contraception is okay. It’s not okay. It’s a license to do things in a sexual realm that is counter to how things are supposed to be.”

    This is from October 18, 2011.

    Warren recently had a revelation about contraception being “unholy”. Guess he’s a little behind but keeping up with political news.

  270. He’s threatened Becky before, just not openly named her.

  271. Walton,

    Give me a few days to send out some feelers. I have some contacts undergroud that may be able to respond.


  272. PW- if you could look up one more thing. I think there is a law out there that states that criminals cannot profit from illegal acts. And those that participated in fraud/theft etc. also can not profit.

    Even the LDS Church gives back the monies that they have received under such conditions.

    The govt. has seized properties of many who have broken the laws and others have tried to sue. But they couldn’t win because it was an illegal act to begin with.

    And such said properties involved in the findings surely wouldn’t be awarded to those that continue to break the law.

    that was one of the reasons I think Judge Lindberg said that the laws had to be followed. NO laws broken ( including polygamy)

    So in a nutshell the UEP can’t be sold bought or traded. It belongs to the tax payers. Not Warren. Not the FLDS. Not AUB. And not the state of Utah. imo

    I don’t know why they don’t turn it all into a Federal Park and issue leases to those that are willing to follow ALL the laws. It could be a 100 year lease with the lease never to be traded or sold.


  273. Agents Robert Foster, Andrew Stearns, Tim Fuhrman, Steve Smith, Deborah McCarley. There are more, but due to ongoing investigation, they can’t be named. These agents have been involved in some way or another since early 2000. CIA is more covert and are not always involved state side. But given the allegations of transporting children out of country, they may be investigating. CIA will pass on or defer to FBI.

    Still searching…..


  274. New York has a Son of Sam law that does not allow profit by a criminal. However, it is state by state, court by court. Remember O J, he wrote a book years after the trial and Goldman’s father went after the profits. OJ was not found guilty in criminal court, but found responsible in civil. If the FBI and courts are successful with a RICO (racketeering) judgement, the Land in the UEP and YFZZ could be seized and given to govt for its use, I.e. Parks, housing, highest bidder. If the land is seiit would probably be years before the matter is settled in court. Look at the mess of the UEP. I get the sense from underground chatter that the investigators see Texas as their best chance to get a stronghold. The risk at this time for FLDS members is that many

  275. Brain fart – if any of the FLDS land is confiscated, the risk to the families will be monumental. Many FBI agents view the religion as s cult and an organized crime syndicate. I am hearing that interviews have occurred, and are still ongoing with those who have been purged
    over the last year. What would speed the investigation along would be the state of Utah getting involved and nit taking a hands off approach. If what I hear underground is true, Utah may be quite surprised if the FBI


    2011 story reports that investigation has been ongoing with federal investigators. A grand jury hearing was held in 2008, then sealed. I am hearing that a new grand jury is being convened to hear from those members who have been kicked out. The more these men file in court and complain to media, the better.


    For those who want to give it a try to get FBI records on FLDS.


  278. PW- I am almost speechless. thank you.

    I’ve a 1,000 questions but I really don’t want anyone in harms way. I don’t know how much of this stuff everyone else knows. And I don’t know if you can delete any of the posts to protect any info. I don’t want you to get into any trouble.

  279. City Room: Want to Be a Pulp Fiction Writer? Here’s Your Chance

    OO – this one is for you

  280. Walton – agent names are common knowledge as they have been reported in the media. I didn’t specify any other particular sources, so my sources are protected. I am careful, so thank you for the concern. Once the info is reported in some shape or form, I can relay the info. Right now it is mostly chatter in chat rooms and through other sources. My sources have been accurate in the past. PW

  281. I dont need any land or houses in the creek. I have a good plot of land and a great house already thats miles away from there.


    Can you say hot potato!!!

    Looks like the UEP is back in the Utah Supreme Court. Hearing on March 20 is off.

  283. Judge Benson….

    I asked the if they had information on Judge Benson’s ruling on the rape tape – confiscated from Jeff’s escalade. This seems like an opportune moment to raise the issue again – since we are back to hearing about the importance of prioritizing religious freedom over accountability for any sort of abuse or crime.

    Judge Benson had ruled the tape was a “sacred religious document”. Elaine, from the HOPE, sent me a copy of the court filing. Here is an excerpt:

    “On September 5,2007, the prosecutor in the instant case issued a subpoena duces tecum requiring Mr. Shields to produce an audio recording in which Jeffs refers to his marriage to a minor girl. The recording is a dictation made by Jeffs on August 7, 2006, in which he chronologies his activities as the spiritual leader and president of the FLDS church…. The recording contains information deemed sacred and confidential by the FLDS Church, including references to sacred ordinances, teachings and revelations. In the dictation, Jeffs memorialized the fact that he administered a sacred ordinance upon the minor known as the “Ordinance of the Love of God.” This is a sacred ordinance of the FLDS Church which is not to be communicated with people outside the Church and only for faithful members named by revelation through the Prophet.”

    We now know what that “sacred ordinance” involved! In my humble opinion, everyone who conspired to suppress that tape should be held accountable for failing to report child sexual assault – including Judge Benson.

    His ruling in favor of suppressing the evidence is on page 16 (assuming I’m reading the thing correctly.)

    It is a 26 page PDF file. Is there anyway to upload it or link to it here?

    This is the file name in case it is already posted somewhere and I missed it: Defendants_motion_to_quash_subpoena_duces_tecum.pdf

  284. I totally agree with what you feel Jerrie and I even sat in the Courtroom and listened to the tape. There is no way that the rape of a 12 year old is a sacred ordinance.

  285. What I want to know is whether or not Alvin Barlow knew what was on the tape when he made his affidavit. Did he even have a clue what the Ordinance of the Love of God was and what would happen during the Ordinance.

  286. Did Dee listen to the tape prior to making his ruling?
    If so I sure wish that the SLT would write a story on that coupled with other bizarre rulings of Dee….

  287. Branch Davidians and other cults–Waco shootout was 19 years ago today.

  288. Hello

    “There are some aweful things being said about the FLDS which aren’t entirely based on truth.”

    It is the opinion of the good people of Texas, and everyone else who doesnt follow Warrens fairy tales, that the FLDS are pretty bad sinners.

    The proof is in the DNA.

    Its why they are in prison.

    Waving a magic wand and saying you are now married, ooops now not, try again, maybe now, lets dip you twice, well its just ridiculous and proves what an idiot Jeffs is.

  289. Stamp –

    I agree with you.


  290. Thanks PW.

    When looking at this from outside the box, its actually hilarious the gyrations they go through.

    From the inside? I can only imagine – but it cant be pretty.

    And all they want is Cheezburger, fries with that!

  291. Does anyone know Texas’ standards for protective custody? I understand they review it every 6 months, but is there precedent for maintaining it forever? I’m sure that I am not alone in hoping WSJ eventually loses his protective custody. Not that I hope he receives any ‘ordinances’ from his fellow inmates – I just think some enforced diversity training might serve him well.

  292. Regarding protective custody –

    My understanding is that PC is reviewed every 6 months to determine if the prisoner is still at risk of harm by fellow inmates, how high profile the case is in the system and media, any additional charges pending, disciplinary issues with the prisoner, health of the prisoner, etc. Many high profile prisoners like WSJ are kept in PC indefinitely.

    “There are several purposes for administering treatment to someone serving a life sentence without parole, including the expanded knowledge of the inmate’s case, the reduction of prison infractions, misconduct, or violations, and the improvement of placement decisions regarding appropriate security level and determination of the kind of access to certain priveleges.” Texas DOJ

    Hope this is helpful


  293. I will have to dissagree that all flds are sinners. Its kind of hard for me to hear that all my family and friends out there are just evil people. I dont think its true. I think it is true that there is alot of bad but I will also always believe its not entirely their fault. In my opinion its like telling me that its my fault I have abandonment issues.

    ok now wheres mom to call me a blowhard again. It makes me warm and fuzzy in all the right places.

  294. I just think some enforced diversity training might serve him well.
    Anonymous said this on February 29, 2012 at 10:53 AM

    I agree Warren needs more to do with his time than spend 23 hours a day coming up with new ways to destroy his sheeple’s lives. Cleaning toliets or peeling potatos 12 hours a day would be a blessing to the sheeple.


    Senate votes to add protection to religious beliefs

  296. OO,
    I don’t think that all flds are “sinners”. I do think that many flds break the law by not reporting sexual assault as mandated and I do think that those with knowledge of sexual assault (in the form of placed “marriage”) should be prosecuted without respect to gender.

    Breaking the law is not the same as being a sinner. The latter implies an overall “badness” while the former can acknowledge that good people do bad things and that they are accountable for the bad things without placing a label on them as being bad, or not loving, or not kind, or etc.


  297. Jerrie – Here is your link –

  298. HHG –

    Trib did have an article regarding Benson’s flip flops.


  299. Did Dee listen to the tape prior to making his ruling?
    If so I sure wish that the SLT would write a story on that coupled with other bizarre rulings of Dee….

    hellohellogoodbye said this on February 29, 2012 at 7:43 AM

    HGH – I’m not sure it matters, actually. Look at it again:

    “an audio recording in which Jeffs refers to his marriage to a minor girl…. In the dictation, Jeffs memorialized the fact that he administered a sacred ordinance upon the minor known as the “Ordinance of the Love of God.”

    That is the heart of the motion. That is the sacred content that needs to be kept out of the hands of, among others, prosecutors attempting to nail Jeffs on accomplice to rape charges for forcing another child to marry an adult.

    Judge Benson had a fundamental responsibility to understand what was on that tape before ruling. The request clearly references Jeffs own “marriage” to a minor. Ignorance is no excuse in this case.

    Beyond that – some officials listened to the tape. They had to. Why did that not immediately result in new charges? For those who heard it played in court – would it have been possible for someone to listen to the tape and not recognize that it was evidence of child rape?

  300. hhg I think your absolutely right….from your prespective. I can tell you first hand that I was never taught to give a damn for the law. In fact i was taught the exact opposite. I still dont give a damn about the law.

    These people are doing exactly what their enviroment has taught or allowed them. Seems everyone out here wants to make them understand. I say go ahead and try. Just know that every time the hammer of the law is used it only strengthens warren. The cold arm of the law will be equally responsible for the genocide to come in my opinion. I dont know who to blame more. The fire or the one who feeds and fans it.

    Not that it matters. Its not like anyone gives a damn about the actual lives. Just what people do with thier lives.

  301. OO –

    Your argument is valid. Just knowing what happened at Waco, Jonestown, et. al. gives me the sense that this could happen again. I hope it doesn’t as I would not want to see anyone’s lives lost in their belief that WSJ is truly a prophet. Being on the outside, looking in, may be giving some of us a sense that we have to try and make those still trapped in the FLDS to understand our point of view and concern. I honestly don’t know what to do other than to continue to provide information from afar, be available to those who want to leave, and try to be supportive to those who choose to stay. I have not lived that life, so I try and evaluate what others say that have lived the life in the past, or continue to live the life now.

    What do you suggest?


  302. Deadly storm slams Missouri and outside of Eldorado, Illinois. As we all know Warren certainly prophesied of whirlwind judgments, including these two states, and now it has begun.

  303. PW, with respect to Judge Dee,
    I had read the article, but wrt to the motion to prevent the hearing of the tape in the Elissa Wall trial I think it does make a difference if he listened to it or not.

    from a legal perspective – if he did not listen to it then wouldn’t he have been failing to comply with his duty to evaluation the motion to suppress before him? if he did listen to it and still gave a pass (which I think is what he did because it was “too inflammatory” if I recall) then one has good grounds on which to question his judgment above and beyond the doctor stuff in the SLT article.

    In fact if I knew the law I would bring this up with the federal court as a reason to not allow Dee’s judgments to stand as it (if I am right) constitutes a gross failure.

    From a non legal point of view the article on Dee’s flip flops was potent but would have been even more potent if it had included this episode and the implications of that episode for his subsequent ruling resulting in the bouncing of the law suit to the feds and back the the Utah Supreme Court.
    It would place a significant amount of public pressure on teh Utah Supreme Court


  304. I havn’t come up with an actual plan as of yet with all my pondering. When I do I will let you know. I can just tell you where I see this ending up with whats going on now.

    I’m not saying the law is all bad. For the most part I do understand the law is doing their absolute best. I do tip my hat to them. My spat this morning is more about the view of it not what is currently going on. I do however think the parents of these underage brides should be held responsible. Its one thing to protect your neighbor its another thing entirely to have to save your own ass.

    This is a cult that has been perfected over hundreds of years. Its quite possible there is no “solution”. I think we can all see how its gotten worse out there. Its a pattern we can all see every day. Shit realy does roll down hill. Everything we do to warren he will pass down to his followers.

    I remember reading once that Thomas Edison had 100 attempts before he finally perfected the lightbulb. He said he didn’t concider the 99 times before to be failures but instead thought of them as 99 ways to not make a light bulb. It is also said that insanity is doing something over and over again expecting a different result.

    I think if there is a solution it will take a very long time and it will fail many many times. My wish is that there would be some way to open up a line of communication. It would be quite the undertaking and I’m not sure it would be “cost effective”.

    My personal views. Do with them what you will.

  305. OO,
    I have read your comments over the years and yes you have been very clear about your upbringing and about your love and concern for those still in. You have also been very clear about your view that the law will make things worse.

    I agree that it might make things worse, but ignoring the law is what has brought this situation to the place it currently is. Continuing to not enforce the law is to be complicit with the predators currently running the FLDS.

    The desirable outcome is that the law is brought to Short Creek, enforced appropriately, and that the society there comes to rely and believe in the law and the fairness of its application and that getting to this desirable outcome does have to go through a Waco.

    It may actually be a good thing that Warren is winnowing the flock because fewer and fewer will have to prove themselves by participating in a Waco.

    IF Short Creek does get to the desirable outcome I still believe that individuals should be accountable for their actions. It could be a truth and reconciliation commission like South Africa had rather than jail time. But in exposing the truth and acknowledging the importance of a society ruled by law would help in future enforcement of the law on backsliders.

    AND apart from all that my prayers are that all the individuals of the community be safe from harm and that all children are provided with the education that is necessary to survive and thrive in the United States.


  306. Hey OO

    we crossed wires in posting. I totally agree with you


  307. dang it, i reread my post at 12:51 and it sounds like I want a Waco, having left out a crucial

    does NOT have to go through a Waco.


  308. Perfected over … well ahem. Not at all, not in the least “perfected”. Worked the sheeple over 80ish years, not “hundreds”.

  309. Are there people within the FLDS who would sound the alarm outside the community should residents be told to do something so drastic as to “drink the Kool-aid”? Media and legal pressure is mounting, and it appears that some of the men are willing to take a chance with the court system in regards to custody, visitation, etc. I can’t imagine the pressure to conform, the isolation, and the lack of choice. I think that many in the law enforcement community are stymied on how to help, as well as how to prevent. However, we all know it only takes a few in LE to make things worse (or better). At some point, should WSJ be placed in general population, he could very easily fall prey to the inmates who do not like those that molest children. I am honestly surprised that someone has not gotten to him yet. Prison has its own pecking order, and WSJ is on the bottom of that rung. Should he become a victim, how will that effect the mind set of those in the FLDS community?

    I hope that your family and friends will be okay during these tumultuous times, and that everyone that wants to leave can do so safely with support. But, at the same time, I can’t fault those for staying when that is the only way of life they know and the fear of the outside, and unknown, is very real.

    “Little Bunny Foo Foo, scooping up the field mice (FLDS children), and bopping them (WSJ and associates) on the head”

    Sorry, had to inject a little humour so that my brain doesn’t explode. (I sit in the dark, backlit by computers, most of the day, and my “little mind” wanders)


    ps – I really do care what happens to the FLDS community (my degree is in social work)

  310. I agree utah needs to get with the program here. Not that it would work but maybe a plea can be reached for some.

    Maybe Utah and AZ need to write up a plea for them in the lines of.

    Stop practicing polygamy. If you sing this and turn yourself in you get off with a fine and get to move on with your life. But for all those that don’t sign let it be known that you have been made aware of your lawlessness and you will be held accountable to the full extent of the law.

    I know many would take a deal like that. I know many would not. But at least it could be a slight jaring of the fairy tale that…….this is my ass.

    I do agree that they should already be fully aware of the legality of their lifestyle but we can just concider it a refresher course.

    the plea for underage brides I think should include jail time but not to the full extent of the law. I would rather give alot of these people the chance to redeem themselves.

    I agree its probably more than they deserve but some times it does take one more time than a person deserves.

    Just a thought. Didnt fully process it through the old brain so im sure theres plenty of holes in it.

  311. My thoughts on our WSJ question PW

    No matter what happens to him it will most likely have the same effect. I cant predict what will happen but I specualte that there will be a fight for the hot seat and there will be a split of sorts. The plus side to this is maybe the new prophets could be made to reason better than Warren.

    It takes a man craving power to step up and claim he is a prophet. So I would imagine these people wouldnt want to look like they caved to the law so it would have to take some clever wording of sorts.

  312. M-0845-CR-20120010
    Title: ST OF AZ VS BISTLINE DAVID LE Category: Criminal
    Court: Colorado City Municipal Filing Date: 02/17/2012
    Judge: BARBARA J. BROWN Disposition Date:

    DAVID LEE BISTLINE DEFENDANT – D 1 Date of Birth: 10/1970
    Citation Count Description Disp. Date Disposition
    C000000000006857 1 CRIM TRESP 1ST DEG-LOK IN
    C000000000006857 2 ASSAULT-TOUCHED TO INJURE

    Case Activity
    Date Description Party
    02/17/2012 COUNSEL APPOINTED D 1
    02/17/2012 DEFENDANT APPEARED D 1
    02/17/2012 RSLT: IA HELD: FEL/MISD/CR TR D 1


  313. Thanks for your response and insight. I don’t foresee this issue fading into the background any time soon, if at all.


  314. Interesting discussions and hypotheses.

    I don’t wish a Waco or Jonestown on anyone. But over time and watching this whole mess from afar, I think Warren’s winnowing is intentional… and that a Waco could be the right Waco-up call in the long run. *gasp!* The *gasp!* is my abhorrence for seeing harm done to any living thing.

    On the other hand, watching this continuing tyranny and deterioration of loyalists’ quality of life which includes my many relatives, with more to come, mark my words – suggests physical death may be a welcome reprieve from their current walking dead status. I think someone used the word ‘zombies.’ It may come down to it being Warren’s ultimate and final weapon of mass destruction.

    And most controversial of all in my current thinking is that ultimately LE and social services and society at large also benefit from such a reprieve, ghastly as it sounds. *gasp!* Just think of the savings in time, money, resources and on and on.

    I’ve always felt Warren’s overarching goal all along is to destroy the religion he was born into but never believed in the first place. He has been getting his jollies by acting the devil’s advocate, the one who delivers the lie that will damn, and showing everyone the world over just how stupid a belief can be and that a nut can pull off such a level of complete mind control. (Remember Hitler’s Third Reich)

    So, maybe he’s aiming for atheistic sainthood. How’s that for an oxymoron.

    A Former Follower

  315. Former Follower,

    Believe it or not I do understand your views. In fact theres a good possibility that it will come to that. I understand the concept of doing what is neccisary.

    My view is I rather exhaust other options before bringing on that one. I don’t want anyone in my family to drink the koolaid. If thats where it ends up so be it but i rather at least try.

    This nut didn’t pull off the mind control game. This game has been going on for years. This mind control took generations upon generations to get to this point it will take more than 1 generation to unmake it. Pushing people to an extreem seems to me like the easy way out.

    As for the zombie status. I was a zombie once too. It is possible to live again. I know because I have done it. It did take something extreem for me to snap awake but it didnt take death.

    My personal opinion is that there are more important things than money. Money is a means of exchange and thats all. As for the LE and social services, its jobs the means of circulating money. If i pay a percent more in taxes for the rest of my life but people get the chance to live, I will gladly pay it.

    I very well may just be a softy but that is my view. Not saying is better than anyone elses. Not saying anyone has to agree with me. I just cast it out there like a dumb fool because well…….im a dumb fool.

  316. whirlwimd judgment today has injured 100′s in Missouri and Illinois, as prophesied,, some dead, at the very moment of the release of Revelation to Warren Jeffs!

    “…first to cleanse my land by whirlwind judgements. Then cometh thy Lord in eternal power of legitimate authority. I shall be as a burning fire consuming every corruptible thing”.

    Anonymous said this on February 29, 2012 at 1:22 PM

    dream on Annonymous if you must. Tornadoes are natural occurences that happen so very often that this area is known as “tornadoe alley.” Here is a link that has a map of all the tornado’s since 1950. Today is no different than any other day in regard to storms.

  317. Former follower, my take is this:

    “Faith is believing what you know ain’t so — Mark twain”

    I believe Warren lied to himself to the point, and has taught his people how to lie to themselves, that what we are seeing is the effect of a vicious cycle of people lying to each other (“bearing testimony”) and believing each other’s lies, and that is the ultimate cause of the disaster. I believe Warren has now believed his own lies. The mind will do that if a person lies to themselves enough.

  318. Sorry for the longwindedness today. You would think i was runnin for president or something.

    Still dont see mom anywhere to give my my blowhard fix.

  319. me my*

  320. Overlord Offtopic, I do agree with you about drinking koolaid and exhausting all other options. I want to see everyone in the world only die of old age. And yes, I know the mind control has been going on for generations, only I see that as going on since the beginning of time. Whole other philosophical argument I won’t get into here. I can’t even characterize how repulsive and appalling Warren’s version is.

    I was just pointing to the elephant in the room. My thinking is based on how little LE and the courts are in their willingness to take decisive action and deal with the obvious problems. They are the ones not willing to spend the time or money. Plus I suspect there are some strange agreements among all the different entities leading to the hands-off approach they are and have been taking.

    And I even understand the political onus. Once burned, twice shy, as the saying goes. Or in modern vernacular, been there done that and look how it worked out. It’s called political suicide.

    It’s we private citizens who are willing but can’t even get close to making the necessary kind of difference. So those folks are going to have to wake up, bite the reality bullet, walk away and make something good happen in their lives like you did, or hold fast to their iron rod of destruction.

  321. That last should have been signed,
    A Former Follower

  322. Cement,
    Your points are well-taken and I agree. You sound like someone who has been there and done that.

    Mark Twain was right on.

    A Former Follower

  323. I am in total agreeance AFF.

    Let me ask you this. What would/did make you wake up? What do you think with the current mentality of the people out there would wake them up other than magical koolaid?

  324. You know what Overlord Offtopic? I have thought and thought about what would make them wake up. All I can come up with is a repeat of what Warren did in Purgatory. Confess his diabolical behavior and as an added feature, he might laugh at their gullibility, maybe throw a little humiliation in for good measure.

    Either that or Lyle should stand up like a real man and state the same thing, and then play Warren’s recorded confessions to the congregation. They need to actually hear Warren’s voice. In other words, Lyle would have to confess his own role in the big coverup and refer everyone to William E. Jessop for their ecclesiastical needs. Otherwise, he’s destined for incarceration, just like his brother.

    If he wants to get a life, he’ll just do it! Very simple. Then it’s up to the people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps one way or another. Then the tough job will be William E’s.

    That’s the only fast-track thing I can think of that will end this human misery.

    I left after I found out I had been lied to too many times. Those folks need to well and truly understand how extremely they’ve been lied to. The ones who are coming out, that’s what you’ll hear from them. They’ve been lied to.

    A Former Follower

  325. A whirlwimd judgment today has injured 100′s in Missouri and Illinois, as prophesied,, some dead, at the very moment of the release of Revelation to Warren Jeffs!
    “…first to cleanse my land by whirlwind judgements. Then cometh thy Lord in eternal power of legitimate authority. I shall be as a burning fire consuming every corruptible thing”.
    Anonymous said this on February 29, 2012 at 1:22 PM

    Hello, any idiot can predict tornados in tornado alley in the springtime. It’s a no brainer. Now for someone to name the exact time one will occur and the exact location with the exact number of injured/dead, then we’ll talk revelation. Until then Warren Jeffs is just an idiot who is predicting things that are bound to happen in the natural course of events.

  326. OO

    “I will have to dissagree that all flds are sinners.”

    Well, that said, at my Church we are taught that EVERYONE is a sinner, and there is only one person to repent to.

    So, dont take it personal. Now, I cant think of anything worse than manipulating children into a sex racket. Of course not all FLDS are involved – but all the leaders are.

    Those that got involved in that and moved to Texas, well we know where to find them now, dont we?

  327. (post you were referring to has been deleted – posted by banned person aka Street – ADMIN)

    My prayers are for the innocent people, be they Christian, Mormon, Muslim, Pagan, theist, atheist, who have lost loved ones. Jesus, by his example, showed love and compassion to all. We should follow suit.

  328. Anon –

    Two words – GLOBAL WARMING

  329. OO

    Also, your post at 12:45

    Thanks. I enjoyed that. You have wisdom, despite being a little defensive.

    ha ha


  330. Thank you for deleting the post. by Street. It was just revolting.

  331. Plane fixed… here are more pics…

  332. I didn’t get the “joy” of reading street’s post. However, it must have been a doozy since it was removed by admin. Thanks! PW

  333. Gandhi’s grandson responds to proxy posthumous baptism by LDS church:

  334. Plane fixed… here are more pics…

    Anonymous said this on February 29, 2012 at 9:39 PM

    Thanks Pilot! Excellent photos, yes I don’t know what it is either.

    Perhaps the massive columns in the front of the amphitheater of the absurd are supports for the “Warren” statue, some sort of roof with the statue on top?

    With all the purges going on where are they getting the cash to continue with the building of the absurd?

  335. Thanks pilot. The pics look great. Question about 391, what are the pipes they are burying out front for?

  336. Yet another THANKS to the pilot!

    Looks like spring is springing, its greening up with the moisture ya’ll have been getting.

    Havent viewed ALL the pics but have observations.

    The pillars in the Half Asstrodome? A make work project, just like the old statue base that’s now evidently abandoned to rust.

    The dirt? Move those piles around and look busy with that too!

    Dig a trench! Cement! Gahh! Pave that road! Dust!

    So much to do, so little time!

    Then of course are the dozen or so ladies and kiddies picking through the drought killed shrubs in the blue pickup photos. Collecting rocks?

    Nothing as smart as a box of rox!

    Study! Homeschool! Check that fence inside a fence. No trespassing and we mean it!

  337. The Eldorado Success is reporting that Judge Walthers will not be the judge in the upcoming trial of Wendell Nielsen’s trial, and new judge will hear case, Robert Moore of Big Spring, Texas.

  338. The Eldorado Success newspaper is reporting a new Judge as been appointed for the trial of Wendell Nielsen, replacing Judge Walther is Robert Moore of Big Spring ,TX.

    Have the FLDS succeed in replacing Judge Walther with a hard core Texas hanging judge? Be careful of what you wish for, you might get your wish!

  339. The anon at 12:00 was me, posted wrong link on that one.

  340. Thanks stamp for the compliment.

    I am defensive. Wouldn’t you be?

  341. I guess, and no one is faulting you for it. Although you made one comment about people not caring about peeps, just “how they live”… That may be true for some, but I know of quite a few people in and out and I care for them all.

    (except for various abusive leaders ahem)

    I get frustrated at times with those like Ruth who cant or wont see the light… I am concerned about those still in danger, I am lifted up by those like yourself who make a better life for themselves.

    Dont know if you know Carlos Holm, he is probably ten years younger than you I guess?

    He posted an interesting video from last month.

    Twilight Zonish. Poofed family. Exed guy escaping in the night towing his trailer and leading his horse out the driver side window down a snowy road.

    It has it all.

  342. I dont pat my own back about making a beter life. In fact life is simple. Its not about doing everything right its about not being stupid.

    Dunno If any of you like stand up comedy but I do.

    Chris Rock said you can’t brag about stuff your supposed to do. Like “All my kids went to school”. They are supposed to go to school. Thats not an achievment.

    I hold myself in this same regard. I cant brag about holding a job, having a wife, being happy, ect…. It not an achievment. Its just normal life and anyone can have what I have if they want it.

    I am glad that my normal life inspires.

    I don’t know Carlos personally. But I do get asked sometimes if I know him. I’m sure he knows me. (Everyone seems to know me). I probably come off as a jerk to him and others.

    In the creek because there realy is nothing else better to do pepole go around and try to know as many people as possilble. I see it even still in the apostate crowd. “Do you know this guy or this guy or this guy”. I never did that. In work project I worked with many many people. Afterall i was on the concrete crew the dirt crew the drywall crew he framing crew and the roof ing crew. I had better things to do than remember peoples names. I do get the occasional kid running into me and talking to me like i’m the one that taught them to work. All i remember is chewing kids out and kicking some butts but hey glad i could help lol.

  343. HA HA

    Heck ya I love standup, and once again you got me to laugh!

    See there, you thought you were just chewing butt but these kids took it to heart and it helped them along the way.

    You stand out as a leader and teacher to them. Dont discount yourself so dang much! You could be building the Halfastrodome at YFZ for pennies on the dollar.

  344. If I were it would be done by now.

  345. When I was at work project on saturdays i was the plyg equivellent of Dr. Cox from scrubs.

    Ya going to pick up that rebar nancy or do I need to get my little sister out here to show you how its done.

  346. re: pilot photos. The pilot didn’t take any photos on new houses going up best I can tell. So the faithful creekers may not be invited to the zipper ranch. Of course we don’t have any pilots in Pringle taking shots of what is going on there. I keep waiting to see reports on the most faithful families leaving the creek in the middle of the night.

  347. LMAO, OO.
    Crack that whip!

  348. well, for what it’s worth, OO. I don’t think I know who you are. but I was the kid out on the edges of everything. I didn’t associate with many people while at the crick and I still don’t know very many of them. The ones I did know have changed so much since leaving I have to become re-acquainted with them.

    on bragging about normal things, I’ll admit I do a little of that. but what saddens me is when kids leave and feel like they can’t do it and settle with much, much less than they could have if they put a little bit of effort. I’ve always aimed high, and it’s taken me pretty far.

    as far as where the money’s coming from for the “Halfstrodome”, I know that my dad is still working his butt off for a poor wage and I’m sure the rest of the money is going to the priesthood storehouse.

  349. OO – LOL. I love Dr Cox on Scrubs! I wonder how many plygs knew what you were saying! 😀

  350. Your probably so much younger than me you never had he privledge of my constructive critisizim. lol

    Your dad gets a wage? Ive worked years without actually collecting a paycheck but I was never married or had kids out there. That seemed to be the deciding factor of if you got a paycheck or not.

    Brag away man! Theres nothing wrong with it.

    Its my belief that you have to ultimatly chose to be a victim. As far as kids that leave I will always say they chose their life. The difference between young men and the kids that stay creekers forever is men leave that place thinking “What a ride!” and the ones that remain forever creekers always complain about how missused they were. We all got missused but that doesn’t mean we get to cry about it for the next 20 years. If you had a choice to feel bad about the past or be excited about the future what would you pick?

    I realize im probably preaching to the choir but im gettin a lil older and i feel the “back in my day” portion of my brain starting to develop lol.

  351. PW scrubs wasnt even a thought when i was talking like that. I loved watching scrubs cause dr cox reminded me of myself.

  352. I’ve noticed that Ruth hasn’t been posting lately. Does anyone know if she is okay? Also, any news out of Canada with Winston?

  353. Any news on this purge? I havnt heard crap.

    Hey Warren ……Purge faster dude!

  354. I was just wondering that myself, OO. It’s so sad to think how many families might be devastated today. I’ll bet a lot of the adolescent girls make the cut though.

  355. That Holm video, it must have made him very sad, not even counting the sadness he’d long dealt with. It affected me, seeing his own blood kin turning him away.

  356. WSJ uses the word “way” way,way too much ! lol, as for Ruth she doesn’t talk badly about WSJ, she likes him ….other-Anon

  357. I haven’t heard a peep about purges either. Maybe everybody made the cut for staying in hell? Or so many that didn’t, Lyle’s boot has a hole in it? He could be nursing a sprained toe.

    I may have to do a little sleuthing.

    Anybody who hears something – preferably from a horse’s mouth – please favor us with a whinny, or even a soft little knicker.

  358. LMAO EJay!!!

  359. What if I hear something from a horses ass?

  360. We’re kinda used to various depths of shit here. There are plenty of horse’s asses around but every once in a while there’s something worth recycling in their shit.

  361. I was thinking if i was talking to a horses ass then it only means I was talking to willie or lyle.

  362. LOL…. yeah, I’d listen to what they have to say. But I’ll bet my ten-gallon hat you aren’t speaking to either one of them. You’re smarter than they are.

    On that note, I do hope Willie’s getting under Lyle’s skin. I like the image of the two of them duking it out.

  363. I think its awesome. No matter who comes out on top its all gravy. They deserve each other. They should go make crazy psycho power hungry babies together.

  364. Love the color you added to our page with your flag profile pic, PT.

  365. Do you suppose WSJ has a connection with this character? Maybe members of the same fraudulent fraternity:

  366. Oh no. Further trouble for proxy baptisms in the mainstream church here in Idaho. Slain journalist Daniel Pearl, if you can believe that. Oh dear.

  367. On Jim Bakker, that takes me back to college. My poor Politics (known as Political Science in the rest of the world) major advisor (a four foot ten Italian Catholic from New York) was writing a book on all the fallen reverends at the time and was dealt a major blow when the guy she had been saving for her last chapter as the last bastion of non-fallenness toppled and she had to rewrite. It about killed her to make it to her publisher on time.

  368. Lindsey Whitehurst is asking for help in a new article at the SLTrib. Here’s the link:

    From article: “I’m no construction expert: Are these columns for decoration or to support a roof? Anyone have an estimate on how much this project might be costing?”

    Anyone out there with construction experience who can help?

  369. The Eldorado paper reported yesterday that a new judge had been appointed in the bigamy trial of Wendell Nielsen, here’s another article from the San Angelo paper.

    IMO the FLDS might be getting more than bargained for with this new judge.

  370. I’ve been considering the possibilities and wonder if the Judge taking herself off the case has to do with the harsh talking to she gave Wendell after he made a self-serving speech when he was doing his plea deal.

  371. Maybe the judge has a much-needed vacation planned around that time.

  372. I doubt it although she did indicate she wanted it finished by Good Friday.

    I still think that it must come back to the plea bargain.

  373. #LDS Church First Presidency issues a letter on proxy baptism controversy. Read it here: @fox13now #Mormon #Utah

  374. I really hope that LDS memebers adhere to the guidelines given in the letter. Doing otherwise puts the church in bad light. Maybe the threat of discipline will help.


    Local Texas news report about change in judge for Merrill’s hearing

  376. PW, it’s Wendell’s trial, not Merril’s.

  377. Well, I note that the most recent outrage about Ghandi is something that happened about 20 years ago.

  378. PT –

    Thanks! That’s what I get for typing at 1:00 am.

  379. IMO, the LDS hierarchy’s letter issued to the membership regarding proxy baptisms does not read that members may submit for posthumous ordinances only their direct ancestors. They says they “should be related to” them. I am not sure whether they intended it to read that way or not – it may be hard for members to know exactly what the church expects.

  380. Under the “six degrees of separation” thought, define “related”. If you spread your family tree branches out far enough, some of us are probably related! Just look at Third Cousin who seems to be related to just about everyone! 🙂

  381. Everyone is related to just about everyone. I’m most likely related to 3C.

  382. I submit only my ancestors names and also the names of their children who died before reaching adulthood. I do not do aunts, uncles, cousins etc. Their decendants can take care of their names.

  383. But chemist, if the aunts/uncles/cousins descendants aren’t LDS, especially among convert families, how do they get their chance?

  384. How many of you remember the rock group “STYX”? one of their songs reminds me of this 3 ring circus of WSJ’s /Lyle control -“Grand Illusion” it’s been on my mind all day, a Grand Illusion,Great Deception or both ? I think BOTH ! not much difference there ….lol ! other-Anon

  385. I believe Ruth posted recently on feralfem’s blog that she couldn’t make quilts asked for by various people because somebody “broke her neck.” Click on the comments for feralfem’s March 1 thread

  386. I seen Ruth this week,she wasn’t wearing any neck brace, she asked me why nobody were throwing snowballs at me ? I told her I would kick the shit out of them or why people don’t try to drive past me fast ? I said I was over to my nephews place,walked back home & some idiot drove close by me fast gunning his engine, they want to play chicken with the apostates,”you cant fix stupid”….other-Anon

  387. other-Anon get the license plate and report it to do nothing Jonathan, so when he does nothing you can report it to the proper authority.

  388. Third cousin: Perhaps I am a slacker here, but I have enough work to do only on my direct ancestors. Don’t have time to worry about the others.

  389. I was mistaken earlier- What I believe is a comment from Ruth is on feralfem’s FEBRUARY thread, dated Feb 21. It says “Willard Barlow broke my neck, so I can no longer sew”and it’s directed to those who wanted quilts apparently. Lately, instead of Ruth, “on the street” has been dominating that blog with his blood atonement ravings and twisted scripture festerings

  390. Thanks mom, I’ll check it out.

  391. On the baptism of Pearl. That sort of blows their defense that these things happened long ago and it has all been corrected.

  392. Video made regarding Linda Holm, FLDS. Unknown how true this is. Comments appreciated


    Brooke Adams site

  394. interesting so Brooke Adams is now a free lance journalist

  395. It is true that Carlos Holm Jr’s father was kicked out and his mother and sisters were removed from the family home.

  396. Where is Carlos family now? Are they in Texas at YFZ?

  397. As far as I know they are still at the Crick, living with other relatives who are “worthy”.

  398. NEW: Federal appeals court cancels arguments in #FLDS land case, sends legal issue back to #Utah Supreme Court. @fox13now #polygamy
    Ben Winslow Twitter

  399. Those tapes by Carlos Holm look fully authentic. The members ignoring him, and then calling the god squad and cops when he has the audacity to show up at their broken ass church.

    HA the cops! There must have been a bunch of gd squad people on speed dial too.

    Nobody knew nothin. BULLCRAP Carlos was correct, his wife and sisters were taken and they evidently went like sheeple to the slaughter.

    His spineless father couldnt do anything. Look at what he is up against, the cops and god squad. He should have gotten out earlier, or had better communication with his wife.

    No this woman and kids will just get daisy chained from exed man to exed man, who the heck knows where they will land.

    What a disgusting way to live.

  400. Continue on General Discussion #73

    ——–Thanks, ADMIN

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