General Discussion #71

Continued from General Discussion #70

——

Holy Statue Batman, is that an Oscar?

KSL ran a story on the unHoly Statue, appears its true.  Video shows crates and testimony of a former employer of FLDS in the area who had the Statue situation described pretty close to what was already known.

Also, in the video there is a view of the packing materials, kept on the doorstep of the Temple, which one might presume holds the un assembled parts which await the finishing touches of the Amphitheater.

Another puzzling part of the construction is the massive piping surrounding the theater and leading away, they flew over and it appeared to be a drainage system, which doesn’t make sense.

KSL and John Hollenhorst reporting:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19099891&title=unique-construction-project-under-way-at-flds-ranch&s_cid=featured-1

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on February 3, 2012.

405 Responses to “General Discussion #71”

  1. The huge trench and pipeline constructed in solid rock is very strange! (On the other hand, all of this is stranger than fiction.)

    Also, I’m very curious about that “young man” who told Biggerstaff all about the statue. I wonder if he’s in or out now. It seems inconceivable that a young Warrenite would divulge so much unless he’d been kicked out.

  2. Ejay

    The article mentions Biggerstaff as having hired hundreds of flds peeps for construction projects and had earned a place of respect, they called him “Uncle”… So perhaps he was one person this person felt they could trust.

    It says he kept hiring them up until last summer, when Warren’s trial was cooking along and lots of new intel popped out.

    Its evident that he was dismissing the convictions up to that point. While the story doesnt detail that the informant was in or out, I suspect he is still in, but perhaps not for long. There will probably be a short list of suspects and then maybe one of those hand holding lie detector tests.

    In the meantime, doesnt look like they are having much luck keeping anything secret.

  3. I don’t think he was kicke out, I think he left after the statue incident

  4. I am wondering if the FLDS will assemble for daily prayers here and face the statue while praying. Wouldn’t surprise me to see idol worship get to this point.

  5. Daily prayers or daily creep out session?

  6. Whats funny is this statue goes against everything I was ever taught. They used to drill the story of moses and the golden calf into our heads. Warren especialy talked alot about idol worship in “Morning Class”. I begrudgingly have to just laugh that Warren as broken nearly every rule he used to preach about. Its like hes trying to convince his people he is a fraud and they just keep blindly following like a bunch of lemmings. I also can’t see how my family who are very intelligent people (i mean they would have to be if they are related to me right lol) can watch this statue go up and not think wait a second…………..

    I can understand the younger crowd following so blindly they didnt have to partake of the world like the older generation especially the salt lake sect. But people my age or even older..really?

  7. Not to be outdone, but Lindsay Whitehurst has a great article on the “Safety Net” up on her blog.

    There is a lot there, except, yanno, evidence of any help the “Net” has done besides bloat Shurtleff’s ego.

    Anyway, I think its a good report and compilation on the issue.

    (Also – she is going to the UEP hearing in Denver, think thats in March – dovetailing Wendell ha ha – really look forward to those stories)

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/53434667-191/net-safety-flds-kids.html.csp

  8. OO

    Gotta agree. Just what does he have to do to prove he aint no stinkin prophet?

    The jailhouse confessions didnt work. The child molesting convictions didnt work. Dusting his feet on all of Shartcreek didnt work.

    Dont think this statue is gonna do it either. Maybe if he exes everyone but a couple brothers…. yeah that might work!!

  9. ‘OO’

    Maybe if he told the flock he is converting to being a Baptist….

  10. I can tell you Rulon is probably turning in his grave over this crap. Probably same for Leroy Johnson. Absolutely crazy. I guess I got to hand it to him tho. Warren was even able to break the back of Dan Barlow Sr. He was kind of known (at least in the circles i travelled) as the man who called bullcrap. Warren was smart to send him out when he did. As much as I know Dan i would think he would be furious over this statue.

  11. We’re on the same page, OO.

    I love it when folks finally come to the same conclusions I did long ago. lol

    Jeffs’ agenda is to ultimately destroy the religion and take as many sleepers with him that refuse to wake up and fly right.

  12. Maybe Warren is smarter then we think. Or maybe he just stumbled into the perfect storm. Or maybe people are just entierly more retarded then I give them credit for.

  13. There’s a fine line between genius and crazy. He’s walking that line.

  14. Well ya gotta admit, they are forced to believe all kinds of “out of the norm” stuff since they could walk and talk.

    There are many who have left after their BS meter redlines, guess the ones that stay had their meters broke long ago. It is amazing to see so many stick through it, esp with this last year with so many hats dropping.

    2012 should prove to be interesting.

  15. http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/02/02/libby-copeland-polygamy-is-harmful-to-society/

  16. Safety Net article on the Spectrum:
    http://www.thespectrum.com/article/20120203/NEWS01/202030340/Safety-Net-reaches-out-FLDS?odyssey=tab|topnews|img|Frontpage

    I just heard Dan Wayman’s moving testimony at yesterday’s safety net meeting – if you want to listen to it, it starts a little over two hours into the meeting and lasts about 45 minutes.

  17. On today’s date in 1890, the US Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of the Idaho Mormon Test Oath enacted in 1884 that prevented not only anyone practicing polygamy but anyone believing in an organization encouraging polygamy from voting or holding office. Idaho repealed most of it in 1893 but it was not dropped from the state constitution until 1982.

    From Carlos Schwantes’ Pacific Northwest History:
    http://books.google.com/books?id=JImlIbueaXcC&pg=PA161&lpg=PA161&dq=%22mormon+test+oath%22+idaho&source=bl&ots=QTYMPM_Q9C&sig=1dyVrLVODs1KtocipOtw0ZEN-rY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=mh0sT7SpC43RiAKzgMHECg&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=%22mormon%20test%20oath%22%20idaho&f=false

    From the LDS Church News:
    http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/58698/United-States-information-Idaho.html

  18. From thread #70: Walton, the statue is real and it is of Warren. The kid who told Biggerstaff about it was working for Biggerstaff.

    Proud Texan said this on February 3, 2012 at 7:33 AM

    I understood that the kid worked for Mr. Biggerstaff. I understood the part that the kid called him “Uncle”. I understand that both Mr. Biggerstaff and the kid both believe that there might be a statue of Warren.

    But I also know that is not proof.

    IF there was such a statue, for just a sick moment put yourself in Warrens mind. In his mind he is/was no different than the “prophets/presidents” before him.

    They have statues of Joseph Smith all over the place. He also took underage brides.

    And once again I ask, IF the Temple is deemed unfit, why would they store a statue that is “three stories high” inside the unfit Temple?


    The pipe surrounding the “new structure” and leading to and from must end someplace? Is it to the irrigaition system? Does it lead into town? Does this structure look anything similar to the water treatment plant near Dallas? Is this one of those new Green Govt. supported systems?

    I am not saying it is. I am asking if it is.
    Walton

  19. The pipe is a long underground bomb shelter. You know for when the world ends.

    Also they can sneak in and load into the spaceship without anyone seeing them.

    Sneaky huh?

  20. 4 foot thick pipe? two circles of it? What the…

  21. Quote of the day “their BS meter redlined”. Love it.

  22. The pipe is a long underground bomb shelter. You know for when the world ends.

    Also they can sneak in and load into the spaceship without anyone seeing them.

    Sneaky huh?

    Anonarama mama said this on February 3, 2012 at 1:25 PM

    Kinda crazy isn’t it?
    Warren Steed Jeffs JETSON new space age compound. When Doyle is out flying around he could meet up with one of the Willies wearing a jet pack out spotting deer. j/k

    lol
    Walton

  23. For those that haven’t seen it before: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/bs-meter.jpg

    BS meter

    Walton

  24. The pipes actually don’t lead anywhere. The YFZ is landlocked. The only road access is by an easement onto CR 300.

  25. maybe its a moat. If you say the password they will lower the bridge. The password for today is : Ogga booga monkey 3 cups sugar sandwich. Got it?

  26. Betty if you haven’t seen the Truman show, you really should. another good movie is called The Village.

    Things that make a person make that hmmm sound.

    Walton

  27. god told noah to build an ark and told the plygs to dig a trench…..who are you to question……wheres that wierdo anon warren lover person…….BACK ME UP MAN WHERE U AT?

  28. Just for shits and giggles, comic relief:

    http://badlipreading.tumblr.com/

  29. Warren knows all. If Warren says God told him to dig a pipe under the red sea, who is there to question him?

    You never know, those tsunamis can travel pretty far inland, especially when large meteors strike the ocean.

    Better safe than sorry! Dont say you havent been warned.

    Got pipe in a trench? Too bad suckers!

  30. cmon wheres the real crazy anon warren lover. Thats not preachy enough to be the same person from yesterday.

  31. When can I find the footage of the safety net meeting?

  32. Cement, this link should work for you:

    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/20171983

  33. chemist here it is: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/utah-attorney-general

    The video with Wayman speaking is dated Feb. 2 and is in the 2nd video that started at 8:05

    And while your there watch the rest of the videos. Maybe not in one day as they are kinda long. but some of them will make you wonder if they are trying to help those OUT of Polygamy or how to better live with Polygamy.

    Walton

  34. Wow watching a little of that video remeinded me why i dont participate in those programs.

  35. The pipes actually don’t lead anywhere. The YFZ is landlocked. The only road access is by an easement onto CR 300.

    Proud Texan said this on February 3, 2012 at 2:22 PM
    There are pipes going around the structure and there are pipes leading to or from the middle of the fishtank. The pipes leading away from the structure are in a trench that lead straight out and then cuts diagonal across the property. Do they lead to the irrigation system or do they continue the way to or from town?
    (Don’t need public access roads to go across property that the owners have given the ok)

    Here is a site that shows a water treatment plant near Austin: http://texas.construction.com/texas_construction_projects/2011/0418_WaterTreatment-1.asp

    Walton

  36. so what your telling e is that building is just a really big toilet?

  37. You never know, those tsunamis can travel pretty far inland, especially when large meteors strike the ocean.
    Anonymous said this on February 3, 2012 at 3:34 PM

    Really?? a tsunami that moves 300 to 400 miles inland to hit zipper ranch?? The furtherest recorded is about 1000 feet. OK who’s pipe you smoking and how come you’re not sharing??

  38. OO – love how you think!

  39. Works for me, OO, being that YFZ resembles a septic tank.

  40. so what your telling e is that building is just a really big toilet?

    Overlord Offtopic said this on February 3, 2012 at 5:15 PM

    🙂 No, that isn’t what I am saying at all. What I am trying to say is… that often times this whole unknown but known “structure” is used as a diversion. Fear of the unknown and worded correctly the unexplainable.

    As crazy as some are trying to make it out to be, it isn’t so crazy if you look and look some more.

    IF they were doing anything illegal the local LE would be there. IF they were digging and planting pipe where they weren’t suppose to the LE would be there as well as EPA, OSHA etc.

    They have permission to do whatever it is that they are doing and they got the ok from those in charge.

    Now…let’s just say that the FLDS dropped the F (kinda) and whatever organized whatever came in. I’d have to think that the “group” would have some kinda leverage over the locals ( imo)

    Maybe that old Indian Grandpa hangonthewall wasn’t blowin’ smoke signals or tokin’ the toke but actually trying to help. He was just knockin’ on the wrong doors.
    Walton

  41. Dear Walton, please calm down. I am sure OO was just making some Friday afternoon fun – not directed at anyone.

  42. They say the nitrates in human waste can be made into gunpowder.

    Thats how it was invented.

    So maybe this is one big nitrate compost pile, so they can make their own gunpowder in 50 years.

  43. FYI, Walton.

    “Permission” is not required to dig trenches and lay pipe on one’s land.

    But that isn’t as sexy as a conspiracy theory around a “whatever organized whatever” moving in on YFZ.

  44. Watergirl- I don’t have a problem with OO. And though I do get fired up about certain things, I am actually trying to show a little humor INSIDE my message.

    Everyone has a Grandpa Hangonthewall. Do you have a photo or your grandfather? When visiting someplace my youngest son (when he was little) tried to describe the man in the photo to someone. Where do most people hang photos. Grandpa HangontheWall.

    Smokesignals showing up with the smokin’ tokin

    And I had the smiley face way at the beginning.

    OO is fine. And I must say I do enjoy the posts. The old Indian I mentioned is the Indian that tried to get into the Ranch years ago when the story about the compound came out.

    Keep on postin’ OO and look for the BS meter inside my posts. 🙂
    Walton

  45. FYI, Walton.

    “Permission” is not required to dig trenches and lay pipe on one’s land.

    But that isn’t as sexy as a conspiracy theory around a “whatever organized whatever” moving in on YFZ.

    Anonymous said this on February 3, 2012 at 6:23 PM
    Sexy?

    Conspiracy? Tell you what. If I knew what it was for sure, I’d say it out loud.

    I am not the one that keeps closing doors nor am I the one that has the answers that refuses to tell people what is going on. So… if there is a “conspiracy” it starts and ends with those that open and shut those doors.

    Closed doors only opens doors to speculation and fear.

    If things were done on the up and up maybe people wouln’t have to “guess” or “wonder” or be afraid. So spill it or put a cap on it.

    How’s that for sexy?
    Walton

  46. Hey, Walton,

    Did you ever remember that Indian’s name?

  47. Walton, at this point I don’t think any of the YFZ’s neighbor’s would give the OK to go across their property. They are the pipes to no where.

  48. No, Third Cousin I don’t. but it was reported in the Eldorado Success. And Doran was called out and from what I remember he was told to move along so to speak.

    I tried to find out who he was but didn’t find a whole lot about him but the trails took me to some water issues with Indian tribes and Mormons in the Early Early years. It was a really interesting story.

    I kept asking about him but everyone said it was nothing. But I think it was something.

    I’ve never been able to cross the story off my list as being nothing.
    Walton

  49. Walton, at this point I don’t think any of the YFZ’s neighbor’s would give the OK to go across their property. They are the pipes to no where.

    Proud Texan said this on February 3, 2012 at 8:00 PM

    Well if this were anything like some of the construction crews I’ve seen lately that could be a possibility. However, despite all the other stuff, I don’t think I’ve ever once heard about the FLDS doing crappy work. In fact some of these crews are so well noted that they often get govt. contracts etc. Couldn’t get those unless you pass the tests so to speak. In fact some of these crews get govt. contracts despite the fact that they are or should be under some type of investigation if those in position would do their jobs. Signs were/are there. The writing on the wall couldn’ t have been more clear and top it all off with an AG saying as much to the media when Warren was on the Most Wanted.

    If they dug the hole, laid the pipe there is not one doubt in my mind they lead somewhere.

    Look at the photos. You won’t be able to see everything. You can only see what is meant to be shown. But if you look you will see. Where do they turn at an angle? Where does it end? And how far does it go?

    It either goes to that irrigation system and or it goes all the way into town. or close to.
    Walton

  50. Walton, you are not listening. When PT said the pipes go no where, that’s exactly the truth. No they might plan on doing something with them in the future, but The go out a ways and then just stop. They are heading toward the YFZ property line and I know for certain without a doubt there is no way in HELL that the next door neighbor property owner would ever given them permission to go across his property. They don’t turn or bend or anything else, it was just a trench they dug, put pipe in and then filled up.

  51. Here’s a report from Mike Watkiss on Ruth Stubbs and how she got the ball rolling on Warren Jeffs,

    http://www.azfamily.com/news/Ruth-Stubbs-talks-about-becoming-a-reluctant-crusader-against-Warren-Jeffs-138642289.html

  52. http://instapaperstories.tumblr.com/post/1562979477/satans-accountant-portfolio

  53. Appreciate the links, could we always give a short summary on what to expect? Thanks

  54. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53442461-78/utah-county-waddups-state.html.csp

    O/T – Judge allowing sister wives lawsuit to move forward

  55. http://www.deseretnews.com/m/article/635186759

    Is the farm in Nevada still part of FLDS?

  56. PW – I don’t know but here’s the 2010 business license for it:

    http://www.lincolncountynv.org/business/Business_License_List_CL_2-15-10.pdf

  57. An excellent article on the downfall of Warren Jeffs,with many quotes from Sam Brower & Flora Jessop.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705388924/The-downfall-of-Warren-Jeffs-began-long-before-Texas-raid.html?pg=1

    This article was written by the same reporter John Hollenhorst who wrote the article on the amphitheater of the absurd, where the Warranties will worship the idol-statue of Warren Jeffs.

  58. More silly speculation….they’ll hook the pipes up to a water system and have ‘dancing water’ displays [like the Bellagio in Las Vegas] to entertain the sheeple between hours long sermons from on high. Hey, it’s as good a guess as any other!

  59. And thus, verily I say unto you, my servant Warren, that the sheeple have become weary of thy monotone and freaky voice, not to mention thine emaciated and striped photographs in the LBJ hall, and even so, the Lord your God, son of Ahman, do hereby and uprighteously insist that you construct, in the name of the Lord thy God, a Vegas-worthy water show to impart and enforce thine utter and only spiritual connection with the Lord, so as not to bore the Lord’s chosen. And even so Amen.

    It’s Friday night, the husband is out of town, the kids are at a sleepover and I should be sleeping but I’m bored. About to start David McCoullough’s 1776. Try to forgive my digression. Except OO, the champ of all digressions. And keep it coming OO.

  60. Steve Appelton of Micron Technology in Idaho is dead. Stunt plane crash. He was 51 but his kids are same age as mine. Talk about off topic.

  61. Walton –
    What year did that incident with the Native American occur? Was it in Texas or Short Creek? You have peaked my interest.

    3C – You make me laugh, very clever!
    PW

  62. http://www.thetimesherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012202040313

    Article regarding WSJ and his Come to Jesus ads.

  63. UFO, meteor, or Warren Jeffs “vision” has come true? You just know he is gonna spin this one to his advantage.

    http://www.thetimesherald.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012202040313

  64. Bill Maher Performs ‘Unbaptism’ on Mitt Romney’s Dead Father-in-Law (Video) http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/bill-maher-unbaptize-mitt-romney-edward-davies-287107

  65. http://www.thespectrum.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2012202030340 another report on the Safety Net meeting in CC. not a lot of new information, but just for curiosity’s sake.

  66. That Maher piece is hilarious. The Blair Witch. Hee hee.

  67. Sister wives lawsuit moves forward.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705398740/Sister-Wives-suit-to-go-forward-against-Utah-County-Attorney.html

  68. PW- It was in Texas and it was before the raid. Doran got called out to the Ranch because there was an “unwanted person” out there trying to get past the gates.

    When I did the google snoop, I couldn’t find much on him but did find something maybe on one of his relaitives being in prison. Really couldn’t find a whole lot.
    But even way back then, not everything was adding up the way it should. So I figued if this guy was playing a part there must be a part that connects. So I googled his tribes history. Came up with issues concerning water issues and the Mormons from long ago.

    There was even a map with the tribe and water rights etc. It really was an interesting story. Eldorado Success is the one that reported the story about the “unwanted guy”

    Maybe it is nothng. But I can’t cross it off until I prove it was nothing. As time goes on the more I see the more I learn that the littlest nothing is always something.


    How can Waddoups dismiss anything when the whole thing with the “Browns” is still being investigated by the AG office assistant Jensen?
    The whole BS meter once again flies off the charts concerning anything and everything with this “Brown” family.

    IF this all has been a big ta doo to “decriminalize” polygamy and still ignore the findings from all those that have worked so hard with the Canadian fact finding- Utah Waddoups will be snubbing his nose to the rest of Society as a whole and I find that very very disturbing.

    AND…if those in Utah and Arizona don’t respond to those Canadian findings in such a way these two states will be thumbing their noses at not only those within but all of us as a society. How long are they going to sit on it?

    What I also find VERY disturbing is to what lengths they have used to push the agenda.
    Consenting adults? …>>> This consenting adult ( me) says NO WAY.

    Walton

  69. Walton –

    Do you have the names? Can you share them here? I have some private contacts in Texas and I would like to explore this issue a little further. You and I are a lot alike in regards to making sure an issue or concern is explored completely before moving on to the next task at hand. If you prefer, I can give you my email and you can send the info privately. Thanks PW

  70. PW- I don’t have the name. If I did I would share it. Here is the list of places that would have the name.
    Eldorado Success
    Sheriff Doran

    I’ve talked about this issue here on the FLDS texas site. The Salt Lake Tribune and InSessions (old court tv which I really miss. I posted there for 6-7 years)
    I’ve always used the nic Walton, except now at the Trib I am stillwalton because I forgot my password and I had to sign up again. And in the beginning at Trib Talk when I signed in, I used the nic Cooper (from Twin Peaks but really it was Walton talking and I let everyone know it was me Walton)

    It wouldn’t do any good for me to send e-mails or such as I still got my monkey buddy Joe on my back. He sees what I see and I just bet I am driving him crazy lately. 🙂 He should know me by now though.

    And I’ve said for some time that if anything should happen to me that I would want Natalie Malonis, Nancy Grace and Katie from Katie and Jordy to come looking and tell all. They can’t be bought traded or sold.

    And get this…I would want Wally B. sitting at my court table. Not the only one but I would want him on the team.

    And a couple of those Texas Rangers walking me in and surely walking me out. 🙂
    Walton

  71. PW- IF you should get any e-mails claiming they are from me – it won’t be me. It happened at least once here.

    Word of caution for you and actually everyone. Don’t share your e-mail addy unless you are 100% certain you know who you are giving it to.

    There is aslo this thing called I think skype or something like that. The person can use another persons phone number to call you making you think that the number on the caller ID is correct.

    BAAHAAA the scammers are getting outted today. ( no names just techniques)

    Walton

  72. Don’t worry Walton, of you come up missing I’ll kick some butt.

  73. 🙂 Thanks Third Cousin. Who knows, if a person dug hard enough and long enough, you could probably find a family connection between you and I. I am being sincere.
    —-

    A few years ago, I had read an interesting piece by a man named Rolf Koecher. He was talking about the expense of going green and at what expense.

    And yes, I know this is all off topic but it kinda fits in a little. Rolf Koecher has since passed on never finding his son but his words are still out there.

    http://davisclipper.com/pages/full_story/push?article-If+they+cap+and+trade-+we+could+pay+triple+the+price%20&id=3701385-If+they+cap+and+trade-+we+could+pay+triple+the+price&instance=InsideS
    Title to this incase it doesn’t come thru ok is : If they cap and trade, we could pay triple the price
    by Rolf D. Koecher

    Read more: The Davis Clipper – If they cap and trade we could pay triple the price

    Walton

  74. http://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2005-07-29/281915/

    Walton – still looking. May take me a few days as my contact in Texas is on the road.

    PW

  75. The name of the Indian was Johnny McAlpine and he had nothing to do with the FLDS or LDS except that he was a nutcase. While he was in prison he filed a First Amendment claim against the prison for not allowing him to have peyote for his religious observances. His claim was dismissed.

  76. PW – how did you DO that? I looked and looked and got nothin’. And I’m pretty good.

  77. Ooops – I meant Anon 7:03.

  78. McAlpine is a restricted Osage Indian and a member of the Native American Church.  Still searching………..

  79. Johnny (Johnnie) Louis McAlpine, aka, Louie McAlpine
    Johnnie Louis McAlpine v. Ron Thompson, 187 F.3d 1213 (10th Cir. 1999) (Appeal of denial of rights under the Federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act)
    Appellant, Johnnie Louis McAlpine, hereinafter referred to as defendant, was charged, tried and convicted in the District Court, Osage County, Case No. CRF-77-150, for the offense of Grand Larceny, 21 O.S. 1971, § 1701. His punishment was fixed at three (3) years’ imprisonment, with two (2) years suspended. A timely appeal from the judgment and sentence, has been perfected to this Court.

  80. It appears that he, or his family members, own DeNoya Trading Post in Oklahoma. They have a store and an EBay website. Some of the old emails that I can locate from the late 90’s early 2000’s indicate that he was cheating people who purchased car parts from him.

  81. Okay, looking back through old court records, I can locate him in Oklahoma. Numerous speeding tickets, marriage licenses and divorces, and one serious issue of wanting to commit suicide. He was found to be permanently disabled. Nothing in Texas or relating to the YFZ ranch. But, still looking………….. PW

  82. Anon 7:03 pm – Thanks for the name. If you can provide any other details, it would be greatly appreciated. PW

  83. Louie McAlpine
    eBay Store

    I am a 4th generation Indian Trader on the Osage reservation. I am a 100% disabled Vietnam Combat veteran. I am a Marine forever. I deal in Indian goods, military goods, survival items, some Harley Davidson and Indian Motorcycle stuff, a few farm items and some Italian car stuff.

  84. Keep digging PW. and then dig some more. It’s out there.

    http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/32/484/633559/ Seems as though ol Smokin’ Johnny aka Louie did some time at El Rino Prison Camp ??

    Have to wonder what made him think what he had in common with those FLDS folks. wow

    Walton

  85. FYI – He is on Twitter and Facebook as Louie McAlpine. No postings of any significance. If you locate him on FB you can see a picture of him.

  86. Wait… wasn’t it said that some members of Warrens group had ties with the Little Shell Pembina Band of North America? That is what they said when Warren was on the most Wanted list.
    Seems like they wanted him and the FLDS for a lot of things and yet they (he) has been charged with a few. I wonder what’s up with that?

    http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/little_shell.asp?learn_cat=extremism&learn_subcat=extremism_in_america&xpicked=3&item=little_shell

    Fake plates, licenses, insurances etc. is well noted with this group. And were they or were they not being investigated by the NBC news team in Florida? and Idaho? and Washington? and…

    Walton

  87. http://www.oha.doi.gov/IBIA/IbiaDecisions/19ibia/19ibia002.PDF

    Johnnie Louis McAlpine and the BIA

    Walton

  88. People shouldn’t have to fear their govt. agencies. They shouldn’t have to have doubts about calling in a crime.

    People shouln’t have to second guess every news article nor should a person have to go back and get facts.

    People might not like the truth but people can deal with things a whole lot better and smoother when there aren’t any games being played.

    8 years is a long time following a story/stories that “are still being investigated” both LE and political officials are being made a mockery in the media with the handshaking by some of those mentioned.

    To have those in Canada and all those others work so Very hard sharing the information and to see them working only to have it be ignored by our own governments/officials is scary. It’s wrong.

    Walton

  89. http://ks.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19930823_0000186.DKS.htm/qx

    The court case on McAlpine, fraud regarding oil Wells to the tune of 7 million dollars. In 2010 he was trying to sell his 65 acre organic farm in Oklahoma. I have not found any connection to YFZ yet.

  90. PW, we’re (more specifically I’m) not worthy. I bow to thine research abilities.

  91. Let me know what comes out with the Little Shell and the Pauite. Shockingly, I have relatives – but through my half brother, not myself. But because of that I have researched on my brother’s behalf. If I can help.

  92. http://www.preppergroups.com/?author=1839

    Mcalpine goes by Rezdoc and is a survivalist who has a conspiracy theorist mind set. Google Rezdoc to read the different blogs and pages that he has written. PW

  93. Appleton’s family.

  94. SLT article on the flds and the “Little Shell Pembina Band”

    http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/archives/2006_06_01_archive.htm

    From the SLT article:

    “The Anti-Defamation League describes the “Little Shell Pembina Band” as an anti-government movement that claims ties to the Chippewas. The federal government has rejected its appeals for recognition.

    But that hasn’t stopped the Pembina band from offering, for a fee, fake license plates, driver licenses and vehicle registrations.

    During traffic stops, the Hildale residents read from a printed card that declared their sovereign status, said Larry Ball, southern region investigator for the Utah Motor Vehicle Division.

    The statement includes the following: “I give myself all rights entitled to a sovereign, including but not limited to the right to drive and travel. Anyone wishing me to give them my license for making any legal determinations for me are hereby declared to be incompetent by me and are now FIRED from making any legal determination for me.”

    A similar verse is read in court appearances.

    These so-called sovereign citizens have become more scarce since a few were packed off to jail or had their vehicles impounded, reports Hurricane City Police Chief Lynn L. Excell

  95. Walton – This one is for you:

    Reported in the September 21, 2006 issue of the Success
    Indian Chief Arrives

    A man sporting a Mohawk haircut and claiming to be a War Chief of the Osage Nation climbed over the gate leading into the YFZ Ranch last week and began walking up the fenced lane leading to the property. Residents at the ranch quickly spotted the man and telephoned the Sheriff’s Department to report a trespasser.

    Officers intercepted Johnny McAlpine of Osage, Oklahoma before he reached the YFZ property. McAlpine told Sheriff David Doran that he is a War Chief of the Osage Nation and that he wanted to deliver a message from his people to church elders at the YFZ Ranch.

    According to Sheriff Doran, a check on McAlpine’s criminal history revealed a lengthy rap sheet that included one homicide. He said he advised McAlpine that the residents at the YFZ Ranch wanted nothing to do with him and urged him to move on.

    At that point, McAlpine got back in his van, Doran said, and headed out of the county. Before leaving, however, he told officers that he was headed to Salt Lake City to deliver the message to the headquarters of the mainstream Mormon Church.

  96. oh man, that Little Shell nonsense. My uncle was pretty into that, among other conspiracy theories. there’s some wild ones, lemme tell ya.

  97. PW- you my friend have earned a tenny shoe award. Not many have been given out by me. Ben Winslow got the tenny shoe award way back when he was reporting on the Mark Hacking story. He ran so fast trying to get info you could hear his tennis shoes squeak across the floor. (True story)
    Thank you PW. That is the story I read. And from there I branched out and found a story about water rights and the Mormons in the old old days. It was a good story and I will keep looking for it and bring the link when I find it.–
    Yehaaa6 – What conspiracy? Where does the conspiracy begin and where does it end?

    Some members of the FLDS were caught and charged with fake plates bought from the Pembina Band. Chemist brought the link over.
    I brought the link over that explains what the Little Shell Pembina Band has been up to and a list of some of their activiities and groups they have been attatched to.
    I knew one of the guys that got shot during the Medina shoot out. http://bismarcktribune.com/news/local/article_d1e97691-ea36-5a7a-978b-cc529942b019.html

    Fear and closed doors only lead to speculation and more fear.

    With Jonnie Louis McAlpines history and with the background from this story I would surely say there is some type of connection. He was there for a reason as well as his trip to Salt Lake.
    Walton

    Thanks again PW

  98. Walton – you are so welcome. Thanks for the award! I love to research and try to solve mysteries, dig up back ground info, etc. If you could see the bank of computers and web search engines that I have at hand, you would probably faint! Glad to help. Now, next topic?

    PW

  99. http://www.myspace.com/rezdoc/photos/1785793#%22ImageId%22%3A1785793

    Johnny McAlpine

  100. Louie McAlpine
    Maintained by: rezdoc ( 8751Feedback score is 5,000 to 9,999) About Me Member has an eBay Shop
    I am a 4th generation Indian Trader on the Osage reservation. I am a 100% disabled Vietnam Combat veteran. I am a Marine forever. I deal in Indian goods, military goods, survival items, some Harley Davidson and Indian Motorcycle stuff, a few farm items and some Italian car stuff.
    Go back Back to previous page

    DENOYA TRADING POST
    An Old Osage Store
    DeNoya Trading Post was started by L.L. Denoya and Frank DeNoya in 1872 on the new Osage reservation, shortly after being relocated from Kansas by the Federal Government. In 1890 the store was set up at Remington I.T. on Salt Creek on the Osage reservation. Over time Ruby DeNoya, my grandmother, took over the store from her dad L.L.. In 1989 my wife took over the store when I retired following my grandmothers death. Today the store still sells Pendletons, beads and supplies. We have combined it with our old stores to included automotive items as well.

  101. A little history of the LDS Church, Oklahoma, and the DeNoya clan (Johnny McAlpine’s maternal family). I wonder if his showing up at YFZ and then the LDS Church in SLC is the result of the Mormons in Oklahoma at one time?

  102. Repent, Warren! Release the children of God from the bondage of thy false prophecies, lest thou findest thyself banished to Outer Darkness for evermore. Thy suffering and imprisonment are not unjust persecution of the saints, but a warning of the punishment that await thee after death should thou refuse to humble thyself before God and release His children.

    For Satan is upon you like the Antichrist. In his name does thou persecute and bind the innocent. In Satan’s name has thou spread lies disguising thyself as a prophet and angel of light. In Baal’s name does thou erect a graven idol the measure of babel of old.

    Yet the Lord is the author of forgiveness. Great is His love and most generous is His power to bless and to heal. He is the protector of the poor, widows and orphans, and loud is the cry amongst those whom you have enslaved with false prophecies. The Lord sees how thou has defiled children into concubines and widows into adulteresses and prostitutes. Heavy are the millstones that await thee in Outer Darkness!

    Yet the time of the Lord’s justice is not yet at hand. Thou may still receive the measure of His mercy if thou will humble thyself, repent and release His people from thy ungodly bondage.

  103. http://www.ldshistoryblog.com/Oklahoma.pdf

    Oops, forgot to include the link. sorry 🙂

  104. Welcome, One M&S.

  105. I don’t know about fearing government agencies….I have nightmares about building inspectors these days on a fairly regular basis.

  106. Josh Powell whose wife disappeared in Utah has committed suicide, killing himself and his two sons.

    http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/national_world&id=8531901

  107. Here’s more:

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19132089&title=josh-powell-sons-killed-in-home-explosion&s_cid=featured-1

  108. Wow. And how courteous not to blow up the Social Worker.

  109. Beat me to it. This is just so tragic (for the kids). Josh should have been in prison. This really makes me angry.

    Ought to start water boarding the dad now, find out where Susan is. I am tired of that tribe.

  110. Yes, terrible tragedy for the young Powell boys. I was really saddened to read about it.. Their Mother “disappeared” and now thei dad has apparently killed them and himself.

  111. Hey, One Mighty and Strong- I agree with the spirit of your warning to little old uncle warren to repent of his foul deeds. But some of your King James English is just a little rusty. All the hasts and thous and such are not absolutely perfect. But it’s a little better than uncle w’s mismanagement of same.

    You are no god-like leader, either, OM+S, please do remember you are a mere mortal. Mormonland is so very crammed with you guys, for land’s sake.
    Thanks! I for one won’t be buying any lecture you might aim at me. But Isupport your warning to uncle w as the correct attitude to take legally and morally.

    BTW, the children of God you mention that warren has in bondage?- uh, there are lots more children of God all over the world that have nothing to do with warren jeffs, or you, and they never will.

    Good night to you, oh latest OM+S from mormonland.

  112. Off Topic: Really enjoy living close to the host city for the superbowl and in being able to participate in some of the pre-game festivities.

  113. evictions avoided:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53413691-78/trust-wisan-flds-property.html.csp

  114. It’s a start…however…if no payments were made to Utah, do the evictions on that side of the line go forward?

  115. Mom:

    Apologies for my imperfect use of Elizabethan English. I tend to use contemporary American in my everyday usage.

    Let us be clear: I am no god-like leader. This One, Mighty and Strong, is a poor sinner in need of Christ’s forgiveness and atonement. “For all have sinned and fall short of God’s glory.” Christ alone is perfect.

    Thus I wish to sell you neither new gospel nor lecture. The Gospel that I preach belongs to Jesus Christ, who offers it for free.

    And lest ye believe that Warren Jeffs is the prophet of this same Jesus Christ, I say to you that he is not. His god is the devil. For the God of Israel is not the author of injustice. He hears the cry of the widow and the orphan, of whom there are many due to the pride of the false prophet Warren. It is in response to their cries that Warren was shackled and imprisoned for the evil he inflicted upon God’s people.

    Yet better that Warren be shacked in this lifetime, where he may still humble himself, repent of his abominations and receive Christ’s mercy, than in the next where he cannot. For there awaits a special place in Outer Darkness among the devils for false prophets who rob children of their sweetness in the name of the Lord. There is a special place in Outer Darkness for false prophets who destroy God’s image as a loving Father and misrepresent Him as a tyrant for their own evil purposes!

    Repent, Warren and all ye who follow the false prophet! Now is the time of God’s mercy. Now is the time to confess your sin and be healed. Now is the time to turn back to God and reclaim your family and your children from the evil wrought by the false prophet Warren.

    Pray for God’s little ones who have turned away from Christ because of Warren’s evil.

  116. Easy, OMS, I’m pretty much with ya. And I may be one of those turned away from Christ because of Warren’s evil. Keep you posted.

  117. Third Cousin – On behalf of followers everywhere of my Lord Jesus Christ, I, an unworthy sinner who has experienced His love and tender mercy, beg your forgiveness for any wrong done to you unjustly in His name, or by those claiming to be His priests and prophets. Let it be know that the true Jesus loves you, shares your pain, and although you feel you have turned away from Him, He has not in fact turned away from you. He wishes only to offer you His blessing and His healing. He wishes only to dispel the smoke of Satan that the false prophet Warren has allowed to blot out the light of Christ.

  118. I’m overwhelmed, OMS. And truly, thank you. I will try to put this information to good use. But I can’t promise anything. Please stay here with us.

  119. ugh as long as one mighty and strong is posting i wont be. bible thumping makes me want to hurl.

  120. Hey Chemist, or whoever else might know:

    When I grew up in the mainstream church, we were waiting for the One Mighty and Strong to show up someday. Does the mainstream church still await this, or has that doctrine faded into fundamentalist status?

    Secondly, I believe most of the other fundamentalist groups still await the One Mighty and Strong, but did that belief fade from the FLDS or do they think it’s Warren?

  121. OO, don’t thump it then. It works better if you read it.

  122. The Josh Powell story struck me when I saw it this morning. It is a horrible tragedy on its own – but it is also disturbing on so many other levels. The authorities were moving in on him. He could have gone out alone – but he went to great lengths to take his kids with him and to stage a cinematic ending. WSJ is not going to get out of prison. He could resign himself to his fate but he is bent on continuing to wreck havoc on the lives of his followers – and (it appears) on staging a bizarre religious spectacle. I don’t think it is at all inappropriate to question how far he might take things – given the chance.

    Narcissists: Attention. Power. Control. Theater. They seem to enjoy the spectacle of scorched earth they leave behind.

  123. haha works better for what….pumping my head full of BS?

  124. OO, no; but rather for believing that Jesus is the Christ, the son God; so that through believing you might have the free gift of eternal life and escape the wrath of God. You might want to start by reading the only book in it that is addressed to you as an unbeliever, the Gospel of John.

  125. OO – just ignore OMS and the bible thumping. Don’t engage with him, only with the rest of us. At least, that is what I chose to do…….

  126. I do apologize anon……bible thumpin is just one of my pet peves.

  127. No need to apologize. ;-D

  128. I apologize for the 3 page rant that I didn’t post 😛

  129. Chemist if you are out there, didn’t find much about one and mighty and strong on LDS website, I had heard the term used by the Branch Davidians to refer their leader David Korseh, and by Brian David Mitchell.

    I did find items below which might be of interest.

    The LDS Church has placed on it’s website copies of the various “Book of Mormon” editions starting with the original 1830 edition, which lists Joseph Smith as author & proprietor.

    http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1830

    http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1837

    http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1840

    http://josephsmithpapers.org/paperSummary/book-of-mormon-1841

    Also compare with 1837, 1840 and 1841 editions.

    Compare with current version in use by modern LDS Church:

    http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm?lang=eng

  130. Hey OO

    Didnt you catch the sarcasm? “The One Mighty and Strong” preaching to Warren?

    Quite a laugh.. as you know that is like calling oneself a Prophet, or God.

    Its “in your face with a pizza pie” humor. JMO thats how I read it. But you never know, some of those folks out in the crick might take it srsly.

    Like everything else… In other good news, they are ponying up on taxes – guess they didnt want the world to end so fast after all.

    So thats a good sign? I think so.

  131. Saw on FB that the young girls are moved out of the Crick. Saw it here , too, but does anyone know more about that? Most likely they are in houses of hiding, but why and what is the next phase? This scares me, even more so that authorities seem to be so helpless to do anything.
    C-M

  132. Rant on, OO. I have a fairly visceral reaction to bible thumping myself. I was educated by Jesuits and Franciscans. I know lots of that stuff by heart and have heard pretty much every possible argument. I’ve read it cover to cover so many times with annotations, translation analysis and lectures. And although there are several quotes I am quite fond of – the Sermon on the Mount and some of the more mystical aspect of Paul – I think most of it is nothing more than a collection of historical writings from an Iron Age herding culture. The last thing I would react warmly to is someone pushing it in my face and telling me to read it (again).

  133. Your absolutely right anon. I’t could have been sarcastic. It just didnt grab me that way. Maybe it has more to do with I dont feel sarcastic today than what the post was actually inteneded to be.

  134. I’ve read the Bible as well Betty. Its been a long time. Luckily most of my memory of it has slowly been being replaced with funny cat videos on youtube. lol

    That goes the same with The BOM 3 in 1 . We had to read it clear through every year in school. 4th grade to graduation. I remember we had to write a description of what we read and what we thought the lesson was. In 6th grade I finally got wise and wrote 2 copies of every assignment to hand in for the next year. They through me through a loop a few times. They said to read nephi chapters 4-6 one year and the next year it was 3-5. So i had to do a little altering. so i think that makes it 3 times through the 3 in 1.

  135. I read the BOM 3 in 1, but not since I became an adult. I tried to read it last year just because I think I ought to know what it says, but it was like watching paint dry and I never got past 1 Nephi. Maybe I can see the musical or something.

  136. I will leave it to you folks to discern whether the One Mighty and Strong is completely serious in his postings, or mixing in a little humor to illustrate a point and lighten to mood. Nor will I be thumping the Bible. God – the true God, not the false god threatened by Warren Jeffs – is a great respecter of conscience and free will. Thus it would behoove me as one of His followers not to follow His example in this regard:

    However, I am serious about a few points:

    1 – Warren is false prophet who has caused great harm to many innocents – including women and children. This is not from God.

    2 – Those who place their trust in God need not fear the eternal punishments threatened by Warren or his followers (although I would still call the police if you are your loved ones are threatened with violence, abuse or assault). Warren does not speak for God.

    3 – God understands your anger at having suffered great injustice at the hands of those who falsely claim to be His prophets and priests. Do not fear to face God with your anger. He is a loving God who values honesty over false piety. Tell Him that you are angry with Him.

    God created us human beings, not robots. Human emotions are part God’s creation. He expects us to be angry in the face of injustice.

  137. Rumor has it that Warren has found Religion inside. Apparently he had an abcess tooth that had gone bad and his head was swollen to the size of a basketball. At least that is what is being said.

    Guess he was out of it for sometime before the anti-biotics kicked in. Lots of mumbo jumbo ranting chanting etc. ( Must have been the reason for all the BS revelation talk that was issued out)

    The gossip is that he had made friends with the guy in the cell across and two down. One trying to out chant the other. Well something must have kicked in and the two supposedly have had some serious talks.

    This guy had said that Warren was saying he is going to change his life. He knows he will never get out but he wants to TRY to make things better for those that he has harmed.

    Something like building a trade school or trade schools and… some type of grant system that will be made available to individuals that have completed school and want to start a real buisness that employs 50 or more.

    Sounds like he got the Education is important bug as well . He wants nothing but the best for the kids and supposedly has hired a firm that would gather a group of teachers from all walks of life. People who would eventually move to the area in the new homes being built by FLDS members that get paid with real checks and real tax deductions.

    I think the lady I talked to said that there was even rumor about the FLDS building premade homes(?) to be put together in other parts of the country where housing is in a shortage. All of the work done will be done by the men and women living in that area.

    AND…..I heard that he wants the news to get out to everyone so he wants to set up a small town newspaper. Nothing big,nothing fancy just a little something to get the latest out.

    All this comes from the guy who stays across the hall two cells down. He told his girlfriend who told her sister who dates the mechanic in a nearby town who has a customer that has a relative who told the guy that delivers the potato chips to grocery stores that stopped at the gas station and told the girl working at the gas station. She sent an e-mail to some of her friends but the Anon. hackers got wind of it and is telling everyone.

    So there we have it. I think it could work. 🙂
    No more doom and gloom. No more preaching from on High. Schools in session and jobs are formed and people working.

    The need women in this little program they’ve got going. Women can multi-task one disaster after another and still come up with a clean kitchen.
    🙂
    Walton
    P.S. to the man in charge: no offense meant and no charge for the advice.

  138. Im terribly sorry I cant fear a fictional being. Well except Santa Clause. He scares me. Rides around on flying devil reindeer. One of them with a red glowing nose. He knows if im naughty or nice and goes on a huge breaking and enterings spree at least once a year. That and he sits around at malls and smells like cheese.

  139. And just a little note: The story I just told is FAKE. NOT true. Not one little shred.

    But it sure sounded good saying it.

    I don’t know who OMS is and I am not sure if I am jumping in on posts being made for others.
    But God doesn’t shut the doors on those who need him or want them in their lives.
    People shut doors. God opens them. Take that into consideration when looking for a house to worship. Just say’n.
    Walton

  140. Nah…Santa is pretty cool. We see him as a gentle old man who flies with reindeer, but in his younger years he punched out a false prophet or two.

  141. Walton I have no problem with people having faith. I just don’t take fondly to anyone telling me what to believe. and everytime anyone tells me that god loves me I want to punch a carebear. lol

  142. Santa doesn’t smell like cheese I’ll have you know. IF you came across a cheesy smelling Santa -he was fake.

    OO, I know a woman who takes in abused and neglected CareBears. She tends them, mends them and finds homes for them. True story. 🙂

    Dan Fischer made a powerful statement at the Texas hearing. Very informative, very emotional and imo very inspirtaional. I saved this link because I go back to it. I personally wish he would share some more history and other stories. Great voice and good history.
    http://www.concernedchristians.com/index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=42&func=view&id=76161&catid=525
    Walton

  143. Why would you want to know more about something that you don’t like?

    What kind of history and stories are you looking for. Theres tons of apostates…they all have stories. Some more legit than others. As far as history…its only as accurate as the person writing or telling it.

    If your looking for stories of poor abused children..you will find it.

  144. OO there is more to Dan Fishers statement then the topic of abuse in the FLDS. There is history. What times were like back then. Growing up. What skills he learned from his mother/grandmother. the things he learned in school at that time. The inner strength that one (he) has that sometimes fails and rises up again.

    Over and over I hear how hard it is when the kids from Polygamous families are called names and teased. Because of the way they dress etc. Plygkids aren’t the only ones out there. Plyg families aren’t the only ones who have faced different discriminations.

    The parents of these kids could change the style of their clothing. They can follow the law and have one wife. They can pay taxes. They can do a LOT of things.

    And they can still be FLDS.

    But when your a little Indian kid in a school filled with those raised to think that your the Curse of Cain – you can’t go home and scrub off the color. Plygkid sounds good compared to “Prairie n****** “.

    And that skin grows tough and old and it’s the strength from within, ( no matter the color), the history, the stories told and shared that will make changes. And with those changes comes a better life. For them, you , me and everyone else.

    No matter if you beieve in my God, their God or a God. A big part of getting “there” is how we treat one another “here”.

    Walton

  145. “One Mighty and Strong”-(muffled disgust noises)-
    I looked at your posts. Know what? all I can say is, somebody that now says they are just a poor wretched sinner like everyone else , but still uses the name “One Mighty and Strong” even on just an obscure internet blog is too much for me to bother with. I do not find it amusing in any way, particularly in this obvious context of discusiing a lawless group that has been teaching garbage and twistedness in the name of God for many years.

    Why not just call yourself the sinner you are intead, then? You have no special handle on Jesus or His message. That’s the “vibe” I wonder if I am supposed to get when I hear people referring to themselves as anything “special” even if it’s only an internet blog. I have looked at this mormon break-away group crapola so long, with its inflated egos and abuses, that I am perpetually disgusted with it. Every single detail of it.

    Including people who refer to themselves with “Look at me, I’m really big, cool, and important” crackpot names which are taken from the mormon fake-you-out collection. Byebye, whoever you are . I refuse to address you further by using “the One Mighty and Strong”- It’s too pathetic. Jim Harmston and several other weirdos out there do that or have done it and I won’t use it speaking to anyone. Even on a tame little discussion blog. Call yourself the humble sinner you obviously are, or something normal and plain, or buzz off.

  146. OK who said plygs have it the worst when it comes to discrimination? Where do you hear these stories of discrimination? I can tell you stories of when I felt discriminated but I don’t recall ever comparing it to anyone elses. In fact if you have time you might be able to find the old SLTrib forums somewhere. Ive told lots of stories there. They never improved my life. In fact they very much did the opposite.

    We will have to agree to dissagree about what makes my life better lol. I can tell you stories don’t. But thats a whole topic that im not willing to put across the world wide web.

  147. Wow name calling now……and i thought i was the most childish one of the blog.

  148. OO – I am not sure what stories you are talking about but you could watch a couple of the meetings from the Safety Net and the lady who said that people need to look in the mirror was talking about the discriminations that those from the FLDS have just trying to get help from outside agencies.

    And then we have the “Brown family” who has stated this.

    And the Dargers.

    I’ll tell you one story. There was a poster that called himself Pliggy. He and I would go round and round. We did this for a couple of years. And the more he posted the more I saw into his “life” as he saw it.

    Then I saw the documentary Sons of Perdition. The first one. And there was this young boy who shared his feelings about being kicked out. He was alone. All alone. He was even alone when he was in a room surrounded by people. and he was fearful of being out in the “land of Perdition”.

    There was another poster that posted on this board and another and his nic was Blues. I asked Blues about it. This Perdition thing. ( Blues like chemist have always responed to my questions without ever once making me feel bad for asking) Anyway, Blues explained it to me. And he expained in such a way that that I understood. I finally understood. I bet I was silent for a day or two. Just thought about it. And I thought about Pliggy.
    Pliggy a grown man had to have felt the very same way when he got kicked out.
    Pliggy and I never sparred again after that. Not because he was right and I was wrong. Hardly. 🙂 But because I understood then that Pliggy was lashing out because he was afraid and…sometimes wrong.

    But I would never have totally understood that whole Perdition thing if that young man in that movie didn’t share his story.

    Kinda like I do when I get mad about the Sister Wives BS and the fake stories. I lash out because I am afraid that the whole stinkin mess is going to continue on for another 100 some years.
    Walton

  149. Mom

    I understand your disgust, but allow me to explain myself. In actuality you yourself have identified my explanation for calling myself the One Mighty and Strong when you state that I’m no different than any other Christian who has experienced Jesus.

    That’s it. That’s all.

    The “One Mighty and Strong” is not a single individual. It is not just me, not just you or not just anyone else. The “One Mighty and Strong” is each of us who stands up to abuse and injustice perpetuated by false prophets in the name of God. The “One Mighty and Strong” is Carolyn Jessop, Ruth Stubbs and Marlene Palmer. The “One Mighty and Strong” is also you and many others on this blog.

    Having said that, I believe that God has also grown tired of the evil perpetuated in His name by Warren Jeffs. And so He is calling many, mighty and strong, to find freedom from the bondage of Pharaoh WSJ.

  150. Walton:

    You raise some good points. I think one of the problems with past persecution of plygs is that all plygs have been equally persecuted. This is unfortunate.

    Certainly, plyg leaders like Warren Jeffs and Winston Blackmore ought to be shunned and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. They are the ones who “benefit” from the plyg lifestyle which – let’s be honest here – is nothing more than prostitution and human trafficking in prairie pioneer clothing.

    Nevertheless, I have a lot more sympathy and compassion for the women being trafficked, albeit in the name of God rather than Mammon. I have just as much sympathy for the children of polygamy – functionally fatherless, emotional orphans, living in poverty, forced to watch their mother and older sisters prostituted, their sweetness poisoned by dirty old men under pain of damnation.

    And when they finally muster the courage to flee, they find themselves alone, viewed with suspicion not only those they fled, but by the broader society into which they fled. By those who only two or three generations ago were themselves plyg. So yeah, it is very lonely and painful. And there is much those of us on the outside can learn in the way of compassion and understanding toward those who have been victimized by polygamy and are now reaching out.

    So allow me to speak directly to those who have fled. You are not alone. Standing by your side is Our Heavenly Father who has a special spot in His heart for orphans and widows, especially those who have been orphaned through the deeds of evil men and not by death. Nor are you sons of perdition. It may seem like the case at the time, given that you have been forced the flee your families and the only lifestyle you have ever known, carrying only the emotional baggage found in most plyg communities, but this is a great opportunity to experience true freedom and become the person God created you to be.

    So despair not.

    Jesus too found Himself lonely in death, having been cast out of the community by the religious authorities of His day. He shares your loneliness.

  151. Anybody who is ready to have One Mighty and Strong find somewhere else to play, please raise your hand!

    :WAIVES HAND WILDLY:

  152. Betty, why are you so hostile? OMS sounds genuine to me and trying to be helpful and kind. Tolerance please.

  153. New revelations from #WarrenJeffs, including one on “celestial love power,” posted over at The Polygtamy Blog: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/53458150-191/power-love-jeffs-rev)

    elations.html.csp

  154. PW tried the link on SL Trib blog, here’s another:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/53458150-191/power-love-jeffs-revelations.html.csp

    Appears ole Warrens on a 1960’s make love not war kick, seems he might be getting tried of the hell & brimstone the worlds ending stuff.

  155. Here’s Warren Jeffs latest “revelation” guess the ole boy has time to spare in his cell to make this stuff up.

    http://bit.ly/xYrOXv

    He seems to be on a kinda hippie thing with all the talk about love.

  156. Anonymous, I suspect that Betty is motivated more by suspicion than by hostility. I can understand why. The designation “One Mighty and Strong” has traditionally been used by Mormon fundamentalists to exert power and control over others, (or occasionally by Internet trolls on Mormon blogs). For this reason it can be unsettling for some who have been victims of Mormon fundamentalism, or who work with these victims.

    It can be just as unsettling for false prophets who, having perpetuated spiritual bondage over God’s people in the name of the priesthood, fear one truly mighty and strong in the Lord, who feels called to help others break the spiritual shackles binding them to these false priests and prophets.

    (And no, Warren, I fear neither your prophecies nor your condemnations. For God alone is to be feared, and you are NOT His prophet. Rather your priesthood is from the devil. Yours is the priesthood of he over whom Christ has already triumphed. And as such your curses and your condemnations have no power over me because Christ alone is my hope. Thus I bid you to humble yourself and repent in this lifetime. For you would gladly suffer a thousand years of imprisonment in this lifetime to avoid a second of the imprisonment that awaits you in death, but I digress….)

    But where to begin? So many false prophecies of the false prophet holding people’s consciences hostage. Ah, yes!

    “When [apostates from the FLDS] come out of the grave and are resurrected, they will not go into any of the degrees of happiness. They will go immediately into eternal punishment that will never die. They are the worst of beings and the terror and pain they will suffer cannot even be described. The worst thing a person could be is an apostate and turn against the prophet. They will suffer even as Lucifer, who fell from the heavens, will.” (WSJ 11/1/95)

    The Lord rebuke the demon that whispered these words into Warren’s ear. Christ did not come to condemn those who flee Warren’s bondage. He came to break the yoke of FLDS pharisites. Whereas Warren offers you bondage, Christ offers you freedom.

    And yet there are those who risk suffering the punishment described by Warren. And yes that punishment is reserved for the worst of the worst. Only that punishment is reserved not for those who cast off the shackles of a false prophet, but for apostate prophets who turn against the little ones over whom they claim spiritual care. Apostate prophets who abuse widows and orphans for their own ill ends. These are the werewolves in shepherd’s clothing for whom Lucifer has prepared a special place in Outer Darkness.

    But to those who flee the false prophet Warren and his puritanical priesthood, Christ offers you freedom.

  157. I think I finally get what your getting at Walton. Not all stories are like Pliggy’s or Blues. I have some dark spots in my life sure but I have never felt poor or abused. In fact I’m quite greatfull for my experiences good and bad. I think its more understandible to dislike your past when you don’t realy like the present or future. My family was very physically violent all it did is make me strong. My family was mentally abusive all it did is make it harder for others to influence me. There was tons of kids in my family it made me work to stand out.

    As you said crap happens everywhere not just to plygs. Equally so what we chose to do with our experiences define who we are not merely experiencing them. If that were the case I would hate all women. I would be a mindless crying baby and have to live off someone else the rest of my life.

  158. I took a good look at Warren’s latest “prophecies” and they are definitely something to be taken seriously. Not for what he predicts but because he is sounding increasingly like David Koresh of Branch Davidian fame. I pray that law enforcement will intervene.

  159. No, honestly, I’m getting down right hostile. I’m way past suspicion into certainty followed by extreme dislike.

  160. I’m with Betty. One Mighty and Strong needs to hit the highway.

    And A Texan, I think Warren is channeling John and Yoko.

  161. OMS, I have concluded that you have no knowledge whatsoever of mormonism (and yes, I do not capitalize it for a good reason). You are welcome here, but tell us why you are here so we can understand. You are making a lot of people I trust mad, but that’s fine – we can take it. But we can see a fake way farther ahead than you could possibly imagine. And, of course, if we are related, let me know. But it won’t matter. Same standard.

  162. Anon, what is a boob? Honestly – what does that mean?

  163. 3rd Cousin: Belated answer to a question you asked a day or two ago.. I have very seldom heard a talk or discussion “about one mighty and strong” in my about 50 years in the LDS church, The few times I have heard it the term referred to Jesus Christ at the second coming.

  164. One Mighty and Strong. It’s not an accident.

  165. I vaugely remember the phrase “one mighty and srong” oh wait that was world of warcraft…..my bad.

  166. per wiki:
    One Mighty and Strong
    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Jump to: navigation, search
    One Mighty and Strong is a person of unknown identity who was the subject of an 1832 prophecy by Joseph Smith, Jr., the founder of the Latter Day Saint movement, echoing the words and prophecy of Isaiah 28:2. The One Mighty and Strong was said by Smith to be one who would “set in order the house of God” and arrange for the “inheritances of the [Latter Day] Saints”. Since this prophecy was uttered, many Latter Day Saints have claimed to be or to have otherwise identified the One Mighty and Strong, and many schismatic Latter Day Saint sects have arisen as a result of these claims.

  167. The Wiki definition goes into a full description and who has claimed the title for themselves.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Mighty_and_Strong

    Ervil LaBaron and Brian David Mitchell among them. Given the list I am not sure I would claim it now.

  168. oh, not to mention Ron and Dan Lafferty also claims the title.

  169. Thank you for your answer Chemist. And with 50 years in the church, you’ve been a mormon longer than I’ve been alive – I’m 43. The One Mighty and Strong we were waiting for was to precede and prepare for Christ’s return. Again, there is much fuzziness around my memories of what I learned at church versus what I learned at grandma’s knee.

    There have been many claimants to the title over many, many years, and of the LeBaron’s, Joel was the one they came to believe was it. Ervil didn’t get excited about it being himself until many years later. One of Ervil’s non-relative victims (the anglo who tried to turn himself into a native american) got lured out on the promise that he was being led to meet with a native american One Mighty and Strong, all to be followed by a shotgun blast out in the desert. Interestingly, every time somebody makes a claim to the title, mormons of all kinds travel great distances to “investigate” it. I find it fascinating.

    Sounds like it wasn’t a big deal in the FLDS religion from OO’s perspective.

  170. Wow, watergirl, there’s a few folks on the wiki list I’ve never even heard of.

  171. holy cow!

    No wonder Utah is known for it’s high usage of anti – depressants and closet drinking.

    Guess the fear tactic was wasted on me as I didn’t know. Another Bahaaaaa haaaa

    Walton

  172. http://onemightyandstrong.blogspot.com/

    oms has a blog that you can link to by clicking on his name.

  173. because i made a joke about it means it wasnt a big deal to me. Doesn’t mean its not a big deal to the flds.

  174. http://www.greaterthings.com/Davidic_Servant/ONE_mighty_and_strong.htm

  175. OO, what do you remember being taught about the One Mighty and Strong? If you don’t mind my asking.

  176. I’m old-fart exflds. Maybe OO is too young, but it WAS a pretty big deal when I was very young – back in the JY. Barlow and JW. Musser days. JW. Musser and all our ilk of mormon fundamentalists (we called it “The Work” back then) named Joseph Smith as “the one mighty and strong.” Since flds consider Joseph Smith “the head of this dispensation of the fullness of times,” he is the only one who can fill the role of “the one mighty and strong.” He will pave the way for the second coming of Christ. I can’t imagine the mainstream church would teach otherwise. But I can imagine they speak very little of it these days.

    As a youngster I’ll never forget sitting in a cottage meeting in SLC back in the late ’40s or early ’50s with the priesthood council sitting in front of our small congregation at the time. One of the brethren was preaching up front when suddenly a man stood up in the middle of the congregation and yelled in a very loud voice, “I AM THE ONE MIGHTY AND STRONG!” and other things I don’t recall. He had to be strong-armed out of the house because he refused to sit down and be still.

    I asked my mother sitting next to me who that man was. She said his name was Ben LeBaron. Not long after that I heard he’d been placed in a mental institution where I believe he lived out his days. It was also my understanding he was then the leader of the LeBaron group in Mexico.

  177. Here’s a new article and video on the YFZ construction.
    http://www.tmdailypost.com/article/religion/new-building-yfz-ranch-puzzles-neighbors

  178. I vaugely remember the phrase referenced in church a few times. Alot of my knowldedge of the catch phrases is fading. It doesnt stand out in my mind as something they tried to drill into me.

    As far as I know they still call it “The Work” don’t they?

  179. Thanks Anon. Love the personal histories and memories. Does that mean Joseph Smith would theoretically return to earth someday?

    Poor old Benjamin Teasdale LeBaron was afflicted with the family psychosis. He went in and out of mental institutions until he drove his car off a bridge in Arkansas to kill himself in 1978. Same poor guy that stopped traffic doing pushups in downtown SLC to prove how mighty and strong he was. The LeBaron’s did initially think he was the One Mighty and Strong but his antics soon forced them to reconsider.

    I was sitting in sacrament meeting here in Idaho in the late 1970’s when someone came rushing in to take the Bishop outside. The Bishop returned to us and said that there were fundamentalists outside the church waiting to hand out leaflets, and we were instructed not to accept the leaflets and not to speak or make eye contact with them and to get in our cars and go directly home. I have always suspected it was the LeBarons but I just don’t know. We kids were scared.

  180. Last I knew that was the case, OO. It’s the rest of the world that refers to them as FLDS.

  181. Thanks OO.

  182. 3C, thanks for the followup on Ben LeBaron’s demise. I didn’t know that.

    As far as Joseph Smith returning, yes, absolutely. It was always taught to me that given the way the godhead is set up, Joseph Smith holds the office of Holy Ghost – therefore you have to go through him to get to Jesus Christ. Hierarchy and and all that, you know.

  183. There have been quite a few that have tagged themselves with the title. Seems to me, now knowing the “story” behind it, I have to wonder why OMS chose that nic and for what purpose.

    Anon. @ 11:44 I enjoyed the story thank you for sharing. Here is a story about Christopher Fink.

    The little boy can barely talk. Yet, by Christopher Fink’s reckoning, his first-born son, David, is a child chosen by God, a divine prophet.
    But to Earl Fink, Christopher Fink’s graying, truck-driving father, grandson David is no prophet; he’s a 21-month-old slowly being starved by parents clutching self-fashioned beliefs that allow the youngster little but lettuce and watermelon.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19981001abduct6.asp
    Walton

  184. Hah, just got this in email. Can’t resist going a little off topic myself. OO shouldn’t have all the fun.

    “A friend of mine just started his own business in Afghanistan .
    He’s making land mines that look like prayer mats.
    It’s doing well. He says prophets are going through the roof.”

    =old-fart exflds=

  185. Old fart: “I don’t care who you are, that’s funny right there…” Hee hee.

  186. Walton – watermelon and lettuce guy is super scary. Why, oh, why are my people so fraught with freaks?

  187. For anyone who’s interested, here is an excellent and well-footnoted journal article on one of the lesser known Ones Mighty and Strong, John Tanner Clark.

    My favorite morsel from the article: “it is easy to see why the mysterious yet dazzling and near-omnipotent characteristics of the one mighty and strong would work powerfully upon the imaginations of talented but ignored and marginalized figures” within the Church.

    https://dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V39N03_60.pdf

    And here is a good general journal article on the OMAS within the different mormon traditions.

    https://dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V39N03_32.pdf

  188. http://www.pensitoreview.com/brother-ervil-brother-ross-brother-rulon/

    A little history of LeBaron, Allred, et. al.

  189. I’ll check out the links after I post this.
    Question: Do Bishops go to Bishop school? Do they have to get a license? a degree? How does that work?

    I know in some religions they go away to do whatever it is that they do. And then they do an internship for so long.

    Kyndra Lee and Christopher Fink were married by a Bishop in a bookstore.

    ???

    Way back when … in the state I live in a person had to apply for a license, go for a blood test and hook up with a preacher man or a Justice of the Peace aka Judge.

    This is a good article: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/659226/Loved-ones-baffled-by-Finks.html?pg=1
    Walton

  190. Walton, as far as I know all it takes is to be told you have been called to serve as Bishop. No school, no degree, no nothin’.

  191. I believe bishops are like most callings in churchy stuff are ordained by some vodoo ritual of some sort. When i get around to making my own extreemist religion every ritual will involve wd-40 and a 2 toed sloth.

  192. 3rd Cousin: Thanks for the links, fascinating reading. The Bishop of an LDS ward is “called” to that position. It is a lay, unpaid position. In our area they typically serve as a Bishop for 5-6 years and are then released from that calling. Bishops must register with the appropriate civil authorities to be able to perform legal marriages in their area. That would be similar to what new ministers of other faiths must do to be able to perform legal marriages.

  193. Thanks, chemist – I knew you’d have the pertinent details. Does the calling come down from the existing bishopric or the stake level?

  194. Oh yeah, I forgot.

  195. It comes down from the Stake level. I remember reading one of Crouther’s (sp?) books many years ago. That may be where the “One Mighty and Strong” being Jesus Christ came from in my case.

  196. Well it appears that felonious profit has the attention of a news talk radio station in Austin,TX

    From the radio station’s website:

    http://www.kutnews.org/post/what%E2%80%99s-mysterious-flds-building-eldorado

    The station points out the ironic story of the convicted Jeffs having a statue with a young girl. And the auditorium of the absurd is compared to something out of a Stanley Kubrick movie.

  197. Sounds like they see it the way I do.

  198. Welcome, Clue Fairy.

  199. Thank you, chemist, you are my go-to human when we need to know the current operations of the church. And, at risk of embarrassing you, you hold awfully high integrity around here.

  200. Thank you, 3rd Cousin. I also enjoy your posts and marvel at your family history (geneology) work .
    .

  201. Me thinks i’m going to have to stop reading the news for a while.

  202. *** Warning- the following comment is NOT meant to be offensive but some might find it offensive***

    I thought of 3 things when I first read the things about One Mighty and Strong information found in BOTH links provided above.
    1. Opium
    2. Sam Walton
    3. John Quinones and his show What would you do?

    The 2nd time I looked it over I thought
    1. Opium
    2. Open hit list/Business contracts/Greed/Power
    3. Opium

    The 3rd time I looked it over
    1. Opium
    2. Men in Power/business contract/Greed/Power
    3. When Fear Takes Over

    So I went back and did a little digging on what was life like in the 1800’s.
    And,,, what influences life before America might play on those that came over.

    I have found all of it very interesting and it makes me appreciate the fact that while some things have NOT moved forward that there are laws in place that protect the weak and innocent. And remain in place if not a couple more added.

    Just my opinion.

    Walton

  203. The tubes are most likely a passive cooling system.
    Consulted experts probably do not understand that since simple systems like these for cooling do not require, pumps, compressors, freon or electric motors they probably did not comprehend the operating principle of the system or how they would be used for that purpose.
    These type systems utilize the cooling effect of the underground temperatures , this colder air is used to displace the warmer heated air in the structure cooling it and the occupants by simply channeling the air and drawing it out of the building as a chimney does the heat of a fireplace.
    Many years ago I did the HVAC for several businesses for the FLDS when they lived in SLC,even employed some of their members when I was in that business, I actually was consulted on the Western Precision / Newera building ( machine shop )that was built years ago in Hildale Utah.
    We discussed the passive cooling tube possibilities for that building but the foundation was already in place when they approached me for input so we utilized technology from Zion’s National Park visitor center and other similar buildings located around the world utilizing passive evap cooling towers. One of the funniest stories to come out of that project was that the passive exhaust towers located in the middle of that building were actually hiding missle launchers.

  204. I have heard of those types of cooling systems but I was under the impression they had to be quite a bit deeper. I’m trying to remember the green building catch phrase they used to use for them.

  205. Thermal Energy? I think thats it.

  206. Walton, opium – or more likely laudanum – might actually explain a lot. I’m serious.

  207. To WSJ & his minions , sheeple , etc , “you can’t fix STUPID” ! other-Anon

  208. Probably you mean geothermal energy, oo…

    P.S.- Clue Fairy, your name makes my day.

  209. http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/566f277e7064463caabb444065f5277e/AZ–Polygamist-Town-Police/

    Legislation to decertify the Colorado City Sheriff’s department

  210. It’s about time!!! However, be careful what you wish for…who would take their place? They are so isolated and deputies from any other place are far away if there is an immediate problem.

  211. Tom Horne- 🙂

    Does all this mean that I can go home now per se? That those that should know…know? that the good guys know? and I can quit asking questions?
    And someone is standing up and saying so?

    That would really be nice. Really nice.
    Walton

  212. The Mohave County Sheriffs Dept. is right outside Short Creek city limits,so there is LE nearby ….other-Anon

  213. Betty, thanks for the link about short creek law enforcement. That’s a step in the right direction–hopefully it will have a good result.

    Swarmi, are you around? I saw your comment on the sltrib about Steve Powell’s divorce and one of the issues being that he wanted to be a polygamist. Where did you find that video? I want to see it too.

  214. I think he said on one of the posts, its on the second video, at the 5:01 mark of ten minutes.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53465945-78/powell-downing-steve-ely.html.csp

  215. have half of its officers lost their law enforcement certifications? Are they still on the payroll?

  216. Anon @ 3:26, thanks for your response. Yes, that post is the one I was referring to….but I don’t know where to find “the second video.” Am I totally missing something obvious?

  217. Even I would have to agree about the god squad losing power. I always wondered how most of them kept their badges as long as they did. I don’t even know who is still a cop out there.

    Other question is……..are they going to force them to take all the lights and sirens and all that other crap out of their personal vehicles.

  218. rnr, I watched the first short video to the end. Then the second video (the one you want to see) started right up in the same window.

  219. EJay, thanks for your response too. I’m so totally outing myself as being clueless on this–but I don’t even know where the “first short video” is. What am I missing here?

  220. Okie doke. I think I found it. Sorry for the trouble and thanks for the help.

  221. http://www.azag.gov/ Upper right hand corner is a link talking about the bill that was mentioned earler.

    I gave the link to Tom Hornes page because there might be a few that don’t know who Tom Horne is or what he is about.

    I didn’t find anything in any of those documents containing the words “pulling the trigger”.

    I am confident that IF any warrants were to be issued and any LE officials were trying to deliver them that they would do so in a safely manner.

    I am also confident that because all of this has been in the media and warnings issued (mostly from the Utah AG office public relations officer) that there will NOT be any type of show down etc..

    The only loud noise that we should be hearing is that of mouths dropping open when those in charge of such said operations stand up and announce that they are in charge and are moving forward with the rest of the notable charges that have been filed.

    I am also positive that there won’t be any fingers shot off nor will there be any “red truck, red wagon” mix-ups.

    If people are breaking the law – then arrest them.
    If they are just an embarrassment to the state and certain organizations within the state- imo you shouldn’t be embarrassed by your history but by your lack of justice and the way you do NOT serve justice equally to those who live there.
    If they are considered a danger to society then say so and say why. And then cap that well that so many drink from.
    Walton

  222. http://youtu.be/NZR64EF3OpA Wizzard of Oz: Pay No Attention

    Hey OZ- Are you saying that it’s going to be ok? That I can go home? All the right guys know what they are suppose to know?

    After 8 years someone is actually going to step up? Put their face out front? Take charge? Come clean? Say what needs to be said?

    After 8 years, I can relax a bit? Step away? Go fishing? Leave it alone?

    Is that what your saying?

    If you can’t whinny or stomp your foot twice on this board then just call me.
    Walton

    Seriously it would really be nice if you could do that. I could quit asking questions. I really really would like to just read a newspaper again and believe what’s said.

    Walton

  223. “…read a newspaper again and believe what’s said.” ???

    Surely you jest, Walton! 😉 I think not in our lifetime.

    However your post reminds me of that 2009 movie “The Invention of Lying.”
    From IMDB: (the protagonist in the film is Mark)

    It’s a world where everyone tells the truth – and just about anything they’re thinking. … When [Mark’s mother is] on her deathbed, frightened of the eternal void awaiting her, Mark invents fiction. The hospital staff overhear his description of Heaven, believe every word, and tell others. Soon Mark is a prophet, his first inventive screenplay makes him rich, and he’s basically a good guy.

    I’m pretty sure newspaper reporters are “writers.” I dare to believe most of what they write but certainly not all of it. They work for corporations looking for a profit. (pardon the pun)

    Anyway, I really enjoyed that film. In so many ways it sure would be nice if no one EVER lied. But in reality… there are lies, there are little white lies and there are damn lies.

  224. Direct youtube link

    Minute 5:01 of ten. Polygamy desires of Steve Powell mentioned in divorce.

    Brooke Adams of the sltrib interviews Cox’ Attorney Steve Downing.

  225. betsy: “Legislation to decertify the Colorado City Sheriff’s department”

    Look up New Rome Ohio. They were kinda the same thing minus the religion. It was a family that ran a tiny speed trap town to line their pockets. They didn’t follow election laws, embezzled money and the officers were poorly trained and abusive. A double wide served as the police station/ mayors court/ jail/ municipal building/ etc. It took an amendment to the state constitution in order to decertify the police dept. and dissolve the town into the surrounding township. Fittingly, a dumpster now sits where the double wide used to be. I imagine a similar approach would work in this situation as well.

  226. http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/08/video-warren-jeffs-hold-on-community/

  227. WOW

    Check out that street argument. What a hoot. Bistline had his neighbor running for cover with his hands over his ears.

    Not sure I’ve ever seen anything quite that funny.

    “Satan!”

    “No, You’re Satan!”

  228. Just watched the video with Gary Tuchman and Mr. Bistline. This kind of thing is a perfect example of the total evil that is known as warren. Yet it’s only a tiny tip of the huge iceberg of that evil.
    And thousands still see warren as good.
    My, my, my. What a bunch. All these children suddenly taught to hate and fear their own father who in this case loves them very much. Astonishing. What fires await warren?

  229. I was just watching it as well….and there was someone, I’m guessing from the good ‘ol god-squad, in the big white SUV, tinted windows rolled up, trying to intimidate. Didn’t work! Good follow up story, though. I hope Anderson Cooper, et al, keep doing them.

  230. I tell you, this warren bunch seriously need some help in this life. Really, really messed up, backward, mean, cruel, and just plain nuts. Mr. Bistline still “believes in his religion,” too. What, does the poor guy think willie jessop or lyle are ok?

    I bet Bistline’s money is still perfectly good enough for warren. Isn’t it always? But never fear, his wife is too hefty to be a warren-babe. Maybe some of her daughters will make the cut.
    I also keep wondering how many girls ( newborns to age whatever) that have been taken into hiding are specifically earmarked to wait in secret places, supposedly ready set, go, to shack with warren when he is miraculously released. Yep, that’s what I am purdy sure they are busying themselves with, raising him a new crop in different places, and teaching them he will return and make babies with ’em. Just like was done with Rulon. It wouldn’t surprise me at all. They are determined, and this is the core of this religion, imo.

  231. And that entire rodeo was over Jeffs exing him… because he had sex with his wife?

    I would have thrown Jeffs picture in the garbage too!

    After I burned it in the fireplace!

  232. The Colorado City police, all of them, need to have their guns and other toys taken away. Then the men can be sent on their way after the Mojave LE take all the bells, lights, and whistles. Maybe even confiscate those big 4 wheelers with the tinted window. I hope there will be law enforcement that’s fair and guided by law of the land, not wsj law.

  233. Mormon bishop ordered to stand trial for witness tampering, failure to report abuse charges http://www.desnews.com/705398993/

  234. Thanks for the link pw. IMO, the bishop was out of line in his counsel to the girl. He should have had the girl go to LE and to civil counseling. Took too much upon himself.

  235. chemist – I agree. I am a retired CPS supervisor and there is a mandated reporter law for anyone who has any contact with children in any capacity. Period!

  236. The LDS church affirms the policy that all child abuse cases must be reported to civil authorities. When I was in a leadership position at an LDS ward that policy was drummed into us. Do this ,period.

  237. I am so glad to hear that, chemist, that means things are changing. Here in Idaho in many of the small communities the school Principal still calls the local Bishop rather than law enforcement or CPS.

  238. Surprisingly, here in Idaho, every adult is a mandatory reporter. I don’t know how well that works for us because I don’t know how many people know all adults have that duty.

  239. I for one am apauled by this bistline guy. What kind of sick twisted man would enjoy sex. For shame!

    lol

  240. And he missed an opportunity to bring up that issue with his neighbor.

    That guy was one serious foo. Looked like a clown and acted like one too.

  241. Third Cousin: It must be a very different experience to be LDS in the areas where the LDS are a majority of the population. Our local high School of 2000 + students has less than 12 LDS students.

  242. To Everyone Concerned,
    A Letter From The Heart:

    I wish to explain myself to the world today, in a trust and confidence in the goodness that is in all people, all being the children of a just God:

    I am a single man, 60 years old, never married. I was rescued from the folly of my FLDS past, my folly, not theirs, and trying to survive without any skills from my past. So, please do not be put off by saboteurs trying to sabatage my efforts to communicate, make a go, or to do business with you.

    Trusting and hoping in you as potential friends, children of the same God, I will not speak of the follies of my kin, but my own. What I said in the past had its place, and did its work.

    Now, I wish to move on. Letting my promote your legitimate operations in fairness everywhere I go, as a friend, would be a great honor to me. Just let me know how I can be of service, without asking anyone to compromise our basic morals and understandin. The honor is mine.

    Thank you for your consideration.

    Street

  243. Nice to meet you Shirl. I don’t think ive ever met you. Were you part of the Centenial group?

  244. Here’s a new song released in honor of Warren Jeffs:

  245. Pligga Nease!

  246. In the video of David Bistline talking to his neighbor , he’s a sheeple relative of mine, unfortunately …….. other-Anon

  247. A Texan, I played “I’m a Playa,” and that was hysterical..just like daddy W is

  248. HAH! posted on twitter today link to this story: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53472977-78/jessop-jeffs-business-flds.html.csp

    Willie, standard business practice is to keep back ups off site! who’s fault is it you lost your business documents?

  249. Other-anon, that argument in the street was really something to behold. And I notice that the written transcripts are wrong, he doesn’t say “you are satan” he says “satan, get thee hence.” Grandma used to talk like that.

  250. Wow, chemist – that’s a tiny percentage. That must be a very different experience.

  251. I had been told the Willie thing was in the works a while back.

    The more who sue Lyle, Warren and company the better as far as I’m concerned.

  252. 3 more Appeals have been submitted for review without oral arguments in the Texas cases. Both of Lehi Jeffs cases, which are identical to those of Michael Emack were submitted on briefs today as was Allen Keate’s case.

    I’d expect a ruling on Lehi’s relatively quickly given that the briefs filed are almost identical to those filed in the Emack case which has already been ruled on and is now being appealed to the Court of Criminal Appeals.

  253. Thanks for the update PT.

  254. I had heard of the raid when Willie and Royce were booted. Was kind of wondering what they would do about it, or when they would do anything about it. I’m not entirely sure why Lyle wants R&W to fail. Could it be just out of spite? R&W did lose every employee they had. AS far as I know the company now employes only 4 people including Royce and Willie.

    Not that I will shed a tear if they go belly up. They are one of my former employers. I worked for many many months without pay. I’m going to have to just say “you reap what you sew”.

  255. Hey OO, or other-Anon, do you think Lyle would crack under escalating legal pressure (more and more lawsuits) and do something violently stupid???

  256. I’m happy that someone else is sticking it to Lyle. I that every man who has been exed should sue for custody of their children and name Lyle, Warren and company as parties since it is those men’s fault that the men aren’t with their children in the first place.

    David Bistline needs to belly up to the courthouse and file for custody of his children.

  257. 100% agree with you PT!

    My previous post is a result of some random thinking. Actually I’m ready for anything to break this juggernaut!

  258. My experience with Lyle is hes a wuss. I would have to say if it ever came down to it he would run and hide. Not that it would save him from anything.

    Escalation is a given at this point. The more pressure Lyle and the bigwigs get the more they will crack down on the people. I believe the thought process is that its the peoples wickedness thats to blame for their problems. At least thats the impression I always got.

    PT
    Willie and Lyle are all the same to me. One sticking it to the other is all gravy to me.

  259. Not to sound negative but there is no breaking this camels back Ejay. Even if they lost every member in 50 years (if we havn’t blown oursleves up yet) this whole thing will start again. Possible even more different groups of them. Proscuting poligamy will just force them underground. They wont use hospitals anymore because hospitals keep records. And all these survival classes they made us take in school would finally make sense.

    Its impossible to kill an idea.

  260. http://www.tribblogs.com/polygamyfile/2008/09/shems-legal-fees/

    2008 when Shem Fischer was ousted

  261. Whoa there Willie and Warren!

    Willie sues Warrant

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53472977-78/jessop-jeffs-business-flds.html.csp

  262. Going for the brass ring:

    “The former spokesman for the polygamous sect led by Warren Jeffs says in a new lawsuit that sect leaders arranged a nighttime burglary that gutted his business after he was excommunicated for refusing to falsify sect records on Jeffs’ marriages to underage girls.

    Willie Jessop, a onetime Jeffs bodyguard and sect spokesman, is seeking more than $100 million in damages to his business, repayment of money he loaned for sect legal expenses and compensation for abuse his family has suffered since his break with the group. “

  263. http://abcnews.go.com/US/warren-jeffs-wife-escapes-polygamist-community/story?id=14725943#.TzRUeuS6SSo

    Does anyone know who this woman is and if she is still out, or did she return?

  264. Jan 4, 2012 news story. Old news, but reference made to concerns that WSJ followers will try to break him out of prison or conduct a Jonestown massacre.

    http://www.q1019.com/cc-common/mainheadlines2.html?feed=119078&article=9564267

  265. I really don’t see that happening anon. Unless they got 100 times nuttier since I left.

  266. OO – when did you leave, if I may ask?

  267. http://rnwex.com/

    Thought R & W was out of business?

  268. Last we heard she was back in, Anon. Very sad.

  269. Oz never called. 😦

    Question: Can a person (meaning me) get into trouble for googling so much?
    On March 1, Google is changing their privacy plan.
    Would they send out someone with a net? or the guys with the dark glasses? Will they arrive by white vehicles with tinted windows or by air craft that hovers slightly above ground?

    I don’t have a problem owning up to what I do but I don’t want to set myself up for some type of home invasion and have the house a mess.

    Seriously though, Can I get into trouble?
    Walton

  270. The Spectrum’s article about Willie Jessop’s multimillion dollar lawsuit.
    Put the following headline in a Google search if the link doesn’t work for you.

    ” Ex-bodyguard for Warren Jeffs sues FLDS leaders ”

    http://www.thespectrum.com/article/20120209/NEWS05/120209013/Ex-bodyguard-Warren-Jeffs-sues-FLDS-leaders?odyssey=nav|head

  271. Walton – no you will not get in trouble for over googling. I run/operate 5 computers at a time and access 12 different search engines. Think “matrix movie” and their computers. I am on Google several hours a day, every day.
    PW

  272. In reference to the posts about Willie the Thugs lawsuit the following could be said:

    Ole Willie the thug should remember what comes out in a civil lawsuit can be used against him in a criminal investigation, and ole Willies got lots of legal baggage left over from his days as Warren’s enforcer. How many times did Willie being the thug run people off from their homes and businesses when Warren and his cronies wanted it. IMO it appears ole Willie got a taste of his own medicine, remember what goes around comes around.

  273. I believe it was 2003 when I left anon.

  274. PW- thanks. You mentioned earlier that you were sitting on a few computers. I was told long ago by a moderator on another board never to ask personal questions but I will tell you that I am curious. No need for you to explain just letting you know.

    —-
    The video Stamp brought over from Brookes interview – the mans description of Josh is similar to how they described the shooter in Arizona.

    The description he uses concerning certain things that the “Powells” described as “art” are similar descriptions that people have used when talking about the “Satanic Rituals ” in Utah in the 80’s. The story/stories no one wants to talk about. One of the stories actually mentions President Hinckley’s daughter and her husband at that time. ( he also had something to do with the Olympics in Utah)

    Concerning the divorce papers that were filed and the “polygamy issues” that were brought up along with the porn, control, mental abuse etc. sadly is yet another story that is very familar with many that can be found on the “ex-mormon” boards. And if anyone would put a study together about what therapists in Utah talk about inside their 4 walls with their clients they would see that this is not only an issue but a very very familar pattern.

    Brooke has always been able to gather a lot of information. I still think she is a good reporter. I have followed the Powell story but I have only made 3 comments on the story since it broke how long ago?

    Walton

  275. Concerning the Anderson Cooper show: Isn’t it amazing that Anderson can travel thru war zones to gather information and make contacts and yet those involved with this show couldn’t break thru the barriers of the FLDS or those LE officials that are holding the cards?

    Not one interview with “ground control”, not one interview with FBI. Never have we seen Judge Lindberg talking to the press.

    This all says two things. The Anderson Cooper show doesn’t care enough to go that extra step or …. they were told to only report this one part of it.

    So..whatever IT is… is bigger than Anderson Cooper.

    Sorry guys, I said a while back that I was going to talk about these kinds of issues. I was waiting for Adam Sandler and his “mama” to jump out of the scenes of the moive Waterboy.

    Who was the woman sitting on David Bistlines sofa?
    Walton

  276. Back to the Powell story. Sheena M. did a good thing bringing up the timeline. She should go deeper and do a what if. imo What else can happen in 22 minutes? What if?

    When Mark Hacking did what he did, it was later discovered that he was caught on video in different areas of town. The timeline told the rest of the story.
    This is all I will say about this story.
    Walton

  277. Walton, Anderson would tell anyone who told him how to report a story to buzz off. He’s done what he wanted. Who’s to say that he’s ever tried to talk to Judge Lindberg. In my experience Judge’s don’t give interviews about cases before them. Neither do the FBI to any real extent. You are just looking for conspiracies where they don’t exist.

  278. Street, if you keep up with the puns about excrement and body parts, the admins are just going to keep on banning you. The baby talk is really annoying. You are condescending. And last but not least, we really don’t want to hear about how wonderful Warren is. You know and I know and we all know that you can’t control yourself for even 12 hours without making a joke about poo or quoting Scriptures. You’ve been given multiple chances here before, we’ve been kind, but you don’t change. You keep having to change your IP address and we keep having to ban the new ones. It’s a dumb game. You’ve been run off from more sites than I’ve ever even to. Just go away, already.

  279. http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2106545,00.html?xid=gonewsedit

    Time Magazine weighs in on Warren.

  280. I have been missing my Winston fix last few days. This article doesn’t have much new in it – but, just a recap of what has already been reported:

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/tax-court-pulls-back-curtain-shielding-life-inside-bc-polygamous-community/article2333338/

  281. Also, regarding the photo of the pipes around the amphitheatre. It looks to me like there might be another half to be built in future since the pipes do the wide circle on the other side.

  282. Walton – I do research and security checks for multiple agencies. I usually have all 5 computers researching different things at one time. I know this sounds like some sort of conspiracy theory, but I really do sit in a dark room, no windows, underground, with computers running, printers printing, music blaring! I have an additional bank of computers near me for anything that is considered “high priority” (i.e. sensitive information).

    PW

  283. “The reason he does it is because he can,” Brower says. “He’s a really sick human being.” As he watched the FLDS self-proclaimed prophet during the trial, Brower says he realized Jeffs had reached a critical point in his reign of madness. “He wasn’t interested in getting out. He didn’t put up a fight because that would have exposed him … Now, he’s this kind of god-man who is being a martyr in a jail cell in Texas.

    Very interesting comment by Brower. Does everyone feel that Jeff’s wasn’t interested in getting out because he would be “exposed”?

    PW

  284. Exposed more then an audio sex tape?

    He will always have people willing to follow him to the grave no matter how exposed he is.

    My personal opinion is that he knows hes safer there than anywhere else. Hes tore up a lot of families. Has driven a lot of people to the brink of rage and it only takes one crazy with a gun and nothing to lose and lets face it FLDS breed a special kind of crazy. I know of lots of people that have voiced to me they would like to shoot him or see him dead.

    The martyr is probably also true. It fulfills his own prophecy for him to be in jail. “Hey look im Joseph Smith” Gods chosen people are always the underdogs. Always persicuted. Peace and joy come after the second coming right? Like i said its a mind game perfected over a hundred years.

  285. p.s. yes I am a special kind of crazy also :-p

  286. The fact that he has done nothing to facilitate his appeal tells me he has no desire to leave prison.

  287. I do think this is exactly how he expected his life to go. Leaving prison doesn’t feed into his martyr complex. He only talks about getting released as a means to controlling his minions.

  288. Walton, there are things that are probably monitored by the guys in the white hats – but, doubtful you would do those kinds of searches – I am sure and I hope they do review people looking for child porn or other type stuff.

  289. The way I see it, all the evidence was laid out, and arguing about it would just compound the guilt and expose that he isnt remorseful in the least.

    During his closing statements he stared at the floor, then tried to voodoo the jury with stares, and then proclaimed “I am at peace”

    Which to me is a full admission, no remorse, and “give me what you must, I dont want my name drug in the mud no more..”

    So he got life, which is what he so richly deserved.

    Buh Bye Warren!

  290. Walton, in answer to your question ,that woman sitting next to Mr. Bistline is probably his wife Esther, who’s now part of the sheeple clan & probably wont get her husband back …….. other-Anon

  291. I think your observation is spot-on, Chops. I’m not proud to say I hope he gets ‘integrated’ into the normal prison population though.

    As a recovering Catholic from a small town, I can kind of relate to the effects of a smothering dogma, social pressure, threats of disownment, etc. but the isolation & coercion in WJ’s magic kingdom takes it to a whole different level.

    What I’d like to know is whether brother Lyle and his immediate cronies are really true believers or consciously running a crime syndicate? I’m sure even a level below them, most folks are ‘all in’ and it’s easy to understand how it happens. It’s hard to really question everything you knew to be true all your life, even when a nutcase is jerking you around from prison.

  292. My contacts tell me, off the record, that the FBI may be pursuing a RICO investigation. Don’t know if that’s true or just wishful thinking. If it does occur, YFZ would be confiscated along with many of the FLDS owned businesses.

  293. Too late, Walton.

    We’re on to you.

    Love,

    The Illuminati

  294. I can protect you Walton. I can take you off the grid and disappear your identity!

  295. Hacktivist Judge Dee Benson – the one who tried to nose in on the UEP – is being taken to the 10th circuit court woodshed – AGAIN – over allowing a convicted drug dealing doctor to stay out of prison while he appeals.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53490204-78/mackay-prison-appeal-benson.html.csp

  296. Rico – sweet – I have been seeing that RICO avatar for a couple years now –

    about time!

  297. I can protect you Walton. I can take you off the grid and disappear your identity!

    PW said this on February 10, 2012 at 4:23 PM

    I don’t want to wiped out as if I didn’t exist. I do exist.

    And so do the questions. That’s why I want Oz to call me. I want the people who are in charge to stand up and take charge. I don’t want to keep asking questions. I don’t want to keep pushing. I want them to step up so I don’t have to.

    Maybe Proud Texan is right and I am going overboard with the conspiracies. And maybe, just maybe Proud Texan isn’t seeing the pictures being shown.

    I exist PW. I own up to what I do and don’t do. I don’t look at Porn, I don’t hack computers and I don’t settle on BS stories that can be picked apart.


    There was a woman sitting alone on Bistlines sofa when he was coming up from the stairs.
    Walton

  298. Can someone post a link to the video or article about Mr. Bistline.

  299. Found it finally.

    http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/08/video-warren-jeffs-hold-on-community/

  300. That link to Judge Dee was interesting….. what a clown…. comments show no great love him or his judicial capacity

  301. Well here’s a copy of Willie the Thug’s lawsuit against Warren the felonious profit & Lyle the larcenous. Posted by the SLTrib.

    https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&chrome=true&srcid=0B1LG1w31trK_MjFmOWE1MzEtY2YwNC00YWVhLWEwOGYtMTZhNDBkN2NlNmUy

    Amazing read, appears to threaten FLDS leadership with Willie spilling the beans on all the wrong doing, perhaps ole Willie is indicating with lawsuit that he’s going to cooperate with LE to cover his rear IMO.

  302. Here’s more on Willie the thug’s lawsuit, article from SLTrib.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/53490654-191/willie-break-business-church.html.csp

  303. Just so there isn’t any confusion. I like Anderson Cooper.

    From the wiebsite that Cement posted a link to:

    Anderson Cooper goes beyond the headlines to tell stories from many points of view, so you can make up your own mind about the news. Tune in weeknights at 8 and 10 ET on CNN


    Walton

  304. Tried to call, Walton, but your phone was bugged.

    So we’re in your computer.

    Love,

    Minions of Oz

  305. I use minions for bait when I go fishing. Are you saying I can go fishing?
    Walton

  306. Go Fish, Walton.

    Please.

  307. Go Fish, Walton.

    Please.

    Anonymous said this on February 10, 2012 at 10:17 PM

    I’ll go fishing if YOU promise no one gets hurt. Not one person. Not even on paper. Please. No fingers shot off. No mix up of red wagons or trucks. No LE. nobody.
    Walton

  308. Walton, I’ve not only seen the pictures, I’ve seen it in person. I think you’re way beyond Nutso!!!

    Sounds like the Minions of OZ are ready to take you away.

  309. Proud Texan, maybe I am “nutso”. And I don’t have a problem with you saying it. But if you really want to get technical about it, you must first define the word and then if you don’t mind…

    Did you see the woman on the sofa?

    And you know what they say about on the scene witnesses that can describe such things.. please do share.

    Maybe if I understood the point you are trying to make….

    Walton

  310. We wouldn’t harm a fly, Walton.

    Being only minions, we cannot make the promises you seek.

    You seek an “end” to stories. You will only find endings in fairy tales.

    Life goes on.

    And on and on.

  311. Not that it makes any difference Walton, but that is one of his sisters.

  312. As J. Edgar Hoover once said, “The individual is handicapped by coming face-to-face with a conspiracy so monstrous, he simply cannot believe it exists.”

    And I would add, if he does believe it exists, he cannot prove it.

  313. Who cares why there’s a woman on the sofa? So Bistline has a woman in his house/office. So what?

    Why do you care about the color of trucks?

    Get some help, seriously!

  314. Yes life goes on, the flds story will go on, polygamy will not be eradicated in the USA. People who look for neat endings tied in a bow are not realists.
    People who look for big conspiracies to explain events and human behavior live in a fantasy world. Get into the real world.

  315. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2099649/Warren-Jeffs-stadium-Is-Latter-Day-Saints-leader-planning-Jim-Jones-style-mass-suicide.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

    Daily Mail story on the stadium and Jeffs

  316. Willie stepped into the real world. Odd thing happened along the way though, his lawsuit against the FLDS is required reading.

    Just finished it. It puts a nice finishing touch on the books “Escape, Prophets Prey, and Answer them Nothing”.

    Not to mention some of the oldies but goodies.

    May have to print it out and put it in the back of each book as a footnote. But, like you say, this isnt the end by any means, just another big bump along the crazy road some folks took.

  317. PW

    Gotta love the Daily Mail. Between Hollywood and Shortcreek, England must think we are nuts!

  318. http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/naomi-jessop

    pictures found of Naomi (old pix)

  319. I just love “Bo” Naomie.

    I wouldn’t give her a “10,” though.

  320. Re: the Daily Mail story; they published a glaring error.

    “There is also what appears to be a large drainage system – comprised of two large pipes encircling the building and running hundreds of miles underground to the west.”

    Hundreds of “miles?” No… it should be “feet” or “yards.”

  321. Thanks PW

    a link from the top photo goes to more pictures of the arrest, some I havent seen.

    Lots of fugitive bling with wads of cash, wigs, cell phones, and computers, and Isaac Jeffs smiling like a buck toothed fool.

    Naomi doesnt look too happy. Reality. Check it.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/photos/galleries/2011/aug/21/warren-jeffs-arrest/

  322. Ejay

    Those poor British folks, everything in the US is much bigger and in this case longer.

  323. Has anyone read Blood Covenant regarding the Lvebarons? Considering getting it from library.

  324. Haven’t read it, PW, but I have it on my list to read.

    I can recommend “Prophet of Blood” by Ben Bradlee, Jr. and Dale VanAtta and “The Four O’Clock Murders” by Scott Anderson.

    I can also recommend any of the books written by Verlan LeBaron’s wives Irene Spencer and Susan Ray Schmidt. Both of them touch on the Church of the Lambs of God and Ervil LeBaron from their perspectives.

    Less talked about blood atonement murders by fundamentalist Mormons are the ones committed by Jeffrey Lundgren and some of his followers in Kirtland, Ohio in 1989. There are books on that subject matter by Pete Earley and one by Cynthia Stalter Sasse and Peggy Murphy Widder.

  325. Years ago I read as much as I could find on the LeBarons. Fascinating and scarey stuff! I also have several books by Spencer and Schmidt, also good reading. Even longer ago, when I worked in LE, I remember several detectives talking about a group called…the Church of the Lamb of God, in San Diego. It wasn’t until years after that that I realized it was the LeBarons.

  326. Blood Covenant is a good read. Don’t expect fine literature, but it is unique because it is written by Rulon Allred’s shooter.

  327. After reading the thug’s complaint, I cannot fathom the “scandalous” information he states has never even been made public.

    The lawlessness is pervasive. The government has deployed the national guard for less.

  328. re: photo with fave “wife” “Nomes” in braids–(Sam Brower’s book states Naomi’s nickname is “Nomes”)(uh, yeah, I REALLY need some tums right now)

    …..Warren babbled about “Nomes” getting her hair done by a black -or did he say Negro?- I forget now…anyway, a dark woman did Nomes’ hair in braids during one of their on-the-run stops, I forget in which state…things like this helped with their “gentile” incognito escapades during their Escalade parades before they were waylaid… by our hero Eddie Dutchover..
    Oh yeah, and one of w’s oh-so-prophet-like
    squeals of delight written right in his lil ole priesthood records was, “Naomi’s gorgeous!”….. Sighhhh…..I mean, just what IS the word for these folk??

    I need a clue, Clue Fairy…

  329. Does anyone know where I can find a copy of prophet of blood and blood covenant? My library does not carry them and eBay wants 30.00 each. Thanks! PW

  330. Have you tried… http://www.half.ebay.com/ ?

  331. Anon 12:35 – they want $39 per copy. I will have to make the trek to my library next week. Thanks!

  332. alibris.com has “Fair” conditions of “The Blood Covenant” for $23+change and “Prophet of Blood” starting at $30.

    I’ve not seen any lower prices on either book.

  333. http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2012/02/12/news/local/doc4f377d57a2554819363284.txt

    County attorneys get to stay on the FLDS job

  334. oops

    anoy 9:08 beat me to it

  335. RIP Whitney Houston

    What a talented voice!

  336. Judge denies motion to remove county attorney’s office from FLDS case http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2012/02/12/news/local/doc4f377d57a2554819363284.txt

  337. ho hum: another legal tactic that flds members lost. Thanks for the link.

  338. Here we GO !

    http://www.azag.gov/press_releases/feb/2012/120208%20BILL%20TO%20REPLACE%20LAW%20ENFORCEMENT%20.html

    We wont need RICO or a Raid.
    The people who have made it through the latest round of inspection by the leadership of the flds have successfully abandoned their souls.

    Its total chaos here right now . People are disappearing. They are seeking refuge. They will run but not find comfort. Their minds are full of death.

    The few courageous people who dare stay will run the gauntlet as their
    own children curse them in the street. The demonic hold is at its peak.

    If any of you are reading this: DO NOT Covenant with this Group.
    They have almost reached systemic failure.
    The whole thing was designed to tear you and your family apart.
    Open your Heart and listen to the still small whisper…
    The safe place is there.
    Reach out to your Family who have left and healed themselves. You
    are welcome there. They know what you are going through and they
    have an interest in assisting you. They have missed you.
    Welcome back…

    You are Loved

  339. Snowing at YFZ ranch right now. Its a good one.

  340. Yep, snowing all around the Concho Valley.

  341. Anon

    Thanks for the link. But instead of less scrutiny, the Jeffs have invited more.

    Per the link:

    “BILL TO REPLACE LAW ENFORCEMENT IN COLORADO CITY PASSES SENATE COMMITTEE UNANIMOUSLY

    PHOENIX (Wednesday, February 08, 2012) — A bill which would have the effect of replacing law enforcement in Colorado City with the Mohave County Sheriff’s Office this morning passed the Senate Government Reform Committee unanimously.

    Attorney General Tom Horne testified that, of 17 bills he has suggested to the legislature, this one has the highest priority in terms of the safety and well being of Arizona citizens.

    Young women trapped in polygamist arrangements with much older men, who had escaped from Colorado City, have stated that other women trying to escape were caught by the local police (referred to as “Marshalls”) and forcefully returned to their husbands. In one case, the husband threatened “blood atonement” if the woman tried again escape, which involves execution by a method too horrible to describe here.

    Attorney General Horne has organized a task force of federal, state, and county law enforcement officers, to deal with the Colorado City problem. They all agree that the first priority for dealing with that problem is replacement of local law enforcement, because existing law enforcement has expressly committed itself to following the dictates of Warren Jeffs, rather than enforcing the laws of the state, as they are sworn to do.”

    http://www.azag.gov/press_releases/feb/2012/120208%20BILL%20TO%20REPLACE%20LAW%20ENFORCEMENT%20.html

  342. Lindsay Whitehurst @ the sltrib, read the Willie lawsuit and had a jaw dropping moment.

    She tees it up nicely.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/53490654-191/willie-break-business-church.html.csp

  343. Somebody let us know how folks in Short Creek are taking the news as they hear it. Those hoping to exit the group may shortly have much safer alternatives, as well as the ability to stay in their homes by making arrangements with Wisan.

  344. Since they arent allowed to listen to any news, TV or internet, they likely dont know much.

    However once the change of guard happens, as it looks like it will when ratified by the AZ Senate, there will be no keeping THAT a secret.

    Also, the UEP is going to the 10th in a few weeks, that will have a huge impact and there will be no hiding the ruling on that either.

    With all this nonsense happening in Shortcreek, I dont see the 10th giving the UEP to Warren…. so look for more craziness as the gavel falls.

  345. regarding the Willie lawsuit:
    The instructions had been issued to Jessop in the form of a letter that Warren Ieffs had prepared from his jail cell. The letter had purported to instruct Jessop that he place in the priesthood record of the FLDS Church information in the form of a letter or affidavit-to the effect that past
    high-ranking leaders of the FLDS Church (who Warren J effs subsequently had expelled from the Church) had conspired against Warren Jeffs by providing information to Canadian law enforcement officials relating to trafficking of underage girls between the United States and Canada. These girls were young daughters of FLDS members in Canada who Warren J effs had ordered sent to the United States so he could marry them.

    I don’t get it. What good would this letter do in the Priesthood records?

  346. Regarding Willie’s lawsuit: The instructions had been issued to Jessop in the form of a letter that Warren Ieffs had prepared from his jail cell. The letter had purported to instruct Jessop that he place in the priesthood
    record of the FLDS Church information in the form of a letter or affidavit-to the effect that past high-ranking leaders of the FLDS Church (who Warren J effs subsequently had expelled from the Church) had conspired against Warren Jeffs by providing information to Canadian law enforcement officials relating to trafficking of underage girls between the United States and Canada. These girls were young daughters of FLDS members in Canada who Warren J effs had ordered sent to the United States so he could marry them.

    I don’t get it. What was the point of this?

  347. oops sorry for double blog – I got a new computer.

  348. The crooked cops losing power is a HUGE win for the people that still live there.

    Other than the cops there is also the “flds security”. I think that’s what they call them. It basicly a group of guys that drive around and enforce rligion. They are also known to harass people that have left or follow the Will Jessop side of things. Here is the awesome part….it is now possible to file harrasment against them. I just hope the people have to stones to do it.

  349. I think the “God Squad” would loose it’s power if there were actual law enforcement in the community.

    OO/Brad, I’m with you on hoping the people will step up to the plate and file charges. I know that one set of charges were filed by a woman who was making a documentary who was harassed and almost run over by a couple of GS pickups.

  350. the God Squad will always be around. Who else is going to enforce all that religion. They just wont always be able to harass the non believers.

    On another note…..now that the cops will no longer be cops if I go beat the crap out of them it will just be assult and not assult of an officer…….might be worth it. Just sayin.

  351. watergirl
    I didn’t get it either.
    I don’t think it was an issue for the law, it was more of an issue for the members should they ever be allowed to read the priesthood records they would know that all the “elders” participated and not just a tight Warren faction????

  352. I’ve got your bail money OO.

    I think that the jest of it was to have Willie stick some stuff in the records to implicate him if it came to that but more so to try to show that the Texas records weren’t correct.

  353. Not very Christ-like, Overlord Offtopic.

  354. Not much out there on the “Fillie Farm” is very Christ like.

  355. OO – I will help with bail AND make the record disappear! Hint, hint, >^• •^<

  356. Police in polygamous town could be decertified:

    Police in polygamous town could be decertified
    By lindsay whit… http://bit.ly/z1XVjR

    Twitter from Lindsay, probably a repeat

  357. More details on a forthcoming bill that could disband town marshals office in polygamous town http://shar.es/fTSnZ #utleg #utpol

  358. Disappearing records – now that I can use. You’re turning out useful in all kinds of ways PW!

  359. I finished reading Favorite Wife by Susan Ray. It was very interesting, but I expected more about Verlands death, Ervils arrest and the aftermath. I did order Prophet of Blood today. As a psych major, I find the LeBaron family fascinating.

    PW

  360. 3C- I am retired govt intelligence

  361. Ah, served my time with the feds too!

    And Prophet of Blood is your best one from LE standpoint.

  362. I will take that as a compliment anon.

  363. Utah to introduce a bill for decertification also

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53506094-78/police-officers-utah-bill.html.csp

  364. HHG

    Read the last couple paragraphs. Shurtleff doesnt want to do what AZ is doing, he wants to give them,,,,,

    Another chance!

  365. You know, this LE thing could get quite interesting if it remains local in Hildale but county in CCA.

  366. PW, if you’re going to dive into the whole LeBaron thing, you must also read Verlan’s autobiography “The LeBaron Story.” Again, fine literature it is not, and he has an unusually deep affection for the exclamation point, but it seems honest to a fault and gives you great insight into the deep religiosity that family felt.

  367. Judge Lindberg orders Utah AG to pay up $5.5 million

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765550661/Judge-orders-55-million-polygamy-trust-payment.html

  368. that was me posting the link
    HHG

  369. Yes it will be interesting 3C. But it will also be comical. That place needs a good shakeup.

  370. It will be a “Keep Sweet Opportunity”

  371. Occupy Keep Sweet!

    hahahah

  372. I love how you always see the glass as half full, OO.

  373. I was thinking Shurtleff’s plan for the Hildalio cops was the “Keep Sweet” plan.

    Swear on a stack of bibles, and make sure the 3 in 1 is on there too!

    And no crossing of the fingers or toes!

  374. There is really no reason to keep them as cops. When I was there they couldn’t catch a cold. They always reminded me more of a kids club. Only problem was when one got in your face you couldnt take them down a notch because of the badge. I can’t remember once where they actually caught some one. Only thing they actually did is break up beer parties out in the sticks. Harass me about listening to music and threaten to charge me with crap I never did. They liked throwing the “its my word against yours and who do you think the judge will believe” crap at me alot. I never witnessed actual police work being done.

    There really should be a conflice of interest clause that should decertify all of them. Religion over law religion over family. To protect and serve…..our pedophile prophet.

    If i still lived in CC I would rather have cops that could be objective. In this case there is no sense of fairness with law enforcement. I have been threatend to be detaind for “suspicious behavore” for walking down a side walk by a person that knows where I live who my parents are and even my shoe size. How suspicous could I possibly be.

  375. Wow. Those keystone cops are going to take Mark srsly and shape up?

    I think not. They will laugh as they tool around town trolling for infractions of peeps listening to music, news, TV or internet.

  376. on twitter today: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765550661/Judge-orders-55-million-polygamy-trust-payment.html

    Bruce Wisan may be closer to getting his money.

  377. I’m thinking if anything happens with my job I should hit Wisan up for a job. Ill walk around the creek with a bright red “keep sweet” shirt on and hand out eviction notices. Oh and ill wear short shorts and cary around a radio blairing Marilyn Manson and Rob Zombie. And everytime i talk I will use my soft “keep sweet” voice.

  378. Short shorts ha ha.

    Watch em run for the hills!

  379. may also want to grow out a beard too and some choice body part piercings.

  380. beard….check
    not into peircings but i would be ok to a tatoo.

  381. Sorry OO, I’ve already applied for that job minus the short shorts. I will wear the blazing red shirt though and play Warren’s audio from the trial during the course of my duties. My first stop was going to be Lyle at Rulon’s house, but dagnabit if he didn’t pay the taxes on that property. Not even just a partial payment, he paid the whole kit and kabodle.

  382. haha of course Lillypad paid his taxes. He knows the golden rule “thy own ass first”. Its good to be bishop but plygin aint easy.

    I doubt there will many evictions anyway. Plygs are experts on finding money, and by finding i mean screwing over people.

  383. OO

    Besides all that getup, some fake piercings and tatts, how about a string of 5 bikini clad teens tied up on a long rope following along behind you?

    They would be so jealous! And I dont know who the most, the guys or the girls.

  384. LOL… you’re priceless, you guys!

  385. I think it would be better if they were dressed like plygs singing “love at home”. Then maybe they can see how silly it looks.

  386. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/53515133-191/jeffs-barlow-office-2007.html.csp

    abolish Colorado City Marshal office

  387. Off topic – http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/02/josh-powell-murder-suicide-young-sons.html

    The Westboro “church” (I use that loosely) plan to protest the funeral of the Powell boys. Occupy plans to be in force also. I feel it is just a matter of time before some looney shoots one of the Westboro members.

  388. On @DougWrightShow @ 9:30 to talk Hildale FLDS Police, affinity fraud, etc. Listen!

    Did anyone catch this by Mark Shurtleff?

  389. http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2012/02/15/news/state/doc4f3b725b56ab4875970624.txt

  390. http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2012/02/15/news/state/doc4f3b725b56ab4875970624.txt

    Utah joins Arizona to disband police

  391. Jews and Mormons once again battling over #LDS leaders’ posthumous baptisms of Holocaust victims http://thebea.st/xM9HTx

  392. I wonder if they cops out there will go harass all the apostates one last time for old times sake.

    Last time I was in town it wasn’t a cop that followed me around it was one of the god squad but after the cops get replaced I think im going to go ahead and phone that in. It was kinda funny being followed though. I think we circled the same block 4 times and he followed every time. It was just a good old frendly game of follow the leader.

  393. Baptize your own grandma if you want but leave mine the hell alone.

  394. That’s part of the problem, Clue Fairy, you’ve got to baptize them all the way back and then you run into your six degrees of separation situation.

  395. If you don’t believe in Mormon beliefs then why does it matter if they baptize them? Then is it just blah, blah, blah, [insert family member here], blah, blah, blah.

  396. OO, aren’t you even gonna wear some holy longish underwear under those short shorts? I’m not flds or anything, but I have trouble with “crack-itis”— know what I mean? Must we really prove to them just how bad off non-flds can be? Why not parade around with some Mozart on the boombox and at least some pedal pusher-length bun coverage? Maybe you could make up for the lack of utter depravity by throwing on a tastefully wrought beaded headband- and/or one earring that’s real obvious…?

    P.S. Clue Fairy- I still get a charge out of your name. Really, really like it.

  397. I was talking above about the Jewish community being upset.

  398. sorry I didn’t see this earlier this week – happy belated Valentines: http://www.theprovince.com/life/stink+least+Winston+Blackmore/6143486/story.html

  399. It’s disrespect for the survivors of that deceased person, watergirl. I find it very offensive, Jews find it very offensive and the Catholic Church has banned cooperation with the LDS on genealogy just because of the practice. The LDS officials have apologized more than once and banned anyone from submitting a name that is not a direct ancestor so they must understand on some level why it is insulting.

    The going all the way back thing does not work logically. Only one path leads from Eve to me. If I go back 10 generations and then start down the branch of my ancestor’s brother back to the present, then I am not talking about my ancestors anymore, I’m talking about someone else’s. They are relatives, but they are not my direct ancestors.

  400. Yup, seems to get them in trouble all the time.

    As if there werent enough already.

    I’m just thankful the flds dont pick up that practice, I would be totally creeped out instead of semi creeped out.

  401. Off topic – http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/02/josh-powell-murder-suicide-young-sons.html
    The Westboro “church” (I use that loosely) plan to protest the funeral of the Powell boys. Occupy plans to be in force also. I feel it is just a matter of time before some looney shoots one of the Westboro members.

    ——————————–

    A disc jockey invited them to be on his show if they canceled their plans to show up at the funeral for the Powell children, which they agreed to.

    In other Josh Powell news, his family has outraged the Cox family by requesting that Powell be buried next to the little boys that he bludgeoned with an axe and then set on fire. A Seattle victims’ advocate group responded by buying up the plots next to the boys to prevent it.

  402. That Westboro group is just plain crazy….but I don’t understand the Occupy people being there….a buffer btwn the mourners and Westboro or just to ‘be there’ and protest whatever they are protesting?? [They kinda lost my attention awhile ago when just about everyone with a bank account became an enemy of the people…]

  403. A sheriff and his sergeant in Washington state have bought burial plots next to Josh Powell’s boys in order to block family members from burying him next to them. Sgt Troyer and Sheriff Paul Pastor used their personal money and funds from Crimestoppers Tacoma-Pierce County to buy plots that are on either side of the boys.

    OK I’ll go back on topic now….

  404. MC

    That is an interesting part of that saga, kudo’s to the cops for stepping up… I hope that Josh isnt allowed to be buried in that cemetery AT ALL,

    If anything the Powell family should divulge where Susan is and have HER buried next to her sons.

    I think at least the Dad – in jail awaiting trial – at least has a good idea where she is.

  405. Please continue on General Discussion #72

    —- Thanks, Admin

    https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2012/02/16/general-discussion-72/

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