General Discussion #70

Continued from “Shakeup in Shortcreek”

The drama continues as Warren has just had a 90 day phone suspension, and with tighter, stifling rules being implemented, the FLDS Church looks to be in a crisis mode never seen before.

The so-called YFZ Statue Amphitheater structure also appears to be nearing a Spring completion.

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on January 17, 2012.

516 Responses to “General Discussion #70”

  1. Continued conv. with Pligkid:

    ———–

    PK

    I think what you have seen is that people hate the sin and not the sinner.

    Oh, except for a special few I reckon. Warren earns more points than others for that.

    And the rest, its frustration. Frustration that a couple states allow this wife abusing child molesting nonsense to foment through the decades.

    This isnt my opinion or anyone else’s opinion that this is allowed to continue, its just fact.

  2. When you talk about polygamy I never get the impression you only hate the sins of my family and/or former friends. I only ever get the impression you hate them because of thier sins. I’ve seen over the years by these very people that post in here attack people I grew up with. People ive worked my fat hairy butt off with. If I were those people I wouldn’t see any of you as anyone that wanted to help. I only view you all as destroyers not creators. My personal Opinion.

  3. Amen, PK

  4. PlygKid, most people hate and fight against that which they don’t understand. But there really are many on the outside who are genuinely trying.
    ——–

    We each have our individual experiences. No one can take away the memories or any of that other “stuff” we file away in our heads. People want to argue about it? Fine!

    Arguing doesn’t change belief; WE do that TO ourselves… when we’re ready or when the need arises for whatever reasons that tweak our consciousness. Sometimes it’s just seems arbitrary and capricious. So what!

  5. OK, well that opinion is fair. I think you would agree though, no hate has been put toward you, despite your past, from anyone here.

    I would agree that certain people have been vilified, no doubt in that. Among them, Merril Jessop, Lyle, Willie has had his share, and others.

    Often people post that they want to see certain women indicted too, such as MJ’s mom Barbara, who handed over children to leaders.

    I can see, from a “persecuted viewpoint” as many flds seem to have, that there is hate toward the entire body of members, but I dont think so…. more of a “frustration” if you will.

    Off line conversations are often filled with concern for the flds as it appears to be falling apart, and concern on how folks make it, and the hope they can do as well as you (and others we communicate with) that have made the great leap.

    Personally, if I come across as hating, I apologize for that… But I cant apologize for my anger at leaders, both in the flds church and various LE leaders who allow child molestation and human rights abuses to continue.

    So if its any consolation, I hate any people who abuse women and children and also the system that has, for far too long, allowed this abuse to continue.

  6. It not only seems arbitrary…..it actually is. I didn’t post it because I care what anyone thinks. I posted it because Its the first of the year and work is a little slower and I’m kinda bored. I’m not expecting anyone to read it and say……….hey that pk guy is right we are being hatefull. It has about the same chance of plygs reading this blog and saying to themselves……hey maybe their right….everything ive believed my whole life and everything ive ever been taught is a total sham.

    It is however getting closer to lunch and us fat people look forward to stuffing our pie holes every day.

  7. Hairy butt huh? Ewwww

    Speaking of shoes. Good time to bring up that old Ancestory thing. Leaving one side of the country to move to an area unknown. Can you imagine the strength? The backbone? The faith?

    If people find what is said here as “hateful” then I am almost positive that these very same people don’t have what it would take to really help those that are in need. jmo Maybe they’ve built their own walls and are too close to the matter to make much difference.

    It takes a strong person to say out loud some of the things that have been said. Keeping things stored inside or on a shelf isn’t going to help anyone.

    The way I look at it is that we can sugar coat it all and be here another 8 years or say it the way we see it and hopefully figure things out and do what we can to end the BS.

    I personally am past the sugar coating and have had my fill of the Curley Shuffle and lost my shoes in the dance.
    Walton

  8. HAW PK!

    Hope you winter well. Also a New Year wish that folks in the crick weather this storm that came upon them.

    While nobody expects them to start up their 56K dialups and start downloading docs for their personal review, its there.

    Word does get around. Warren cant hide his behavior anymore, hence the fresh baptisms and tests.

    How Blue is True Blue?

  9. You are correct Stamp you have not shown me hate as far as I can remember.

    I’m not complaining. You and everyone else needs to do whatever blows their skirt up. I’m not asking anyone to change. I’m not telling anyone they should. Im skipping my very small opion across the big world wide web pond. I’m not even saying im right lol.

    I hate people that abuse power, women, children as well. Personally my first impression is to snap people over my knee but thats just not acceptable. Its in that spirit I do feel the need to constantly remind myself…..who am I to judge even if I know its wrong. Talking abou thow wrong it is certainly has never made me feel any better about it. But thats me.

    I realized a long time ago theres alot of things I can’t change. I can’t save all the kids that starve in the world an deserve better. I cant scrub the ozone and I cant convince cults that what they are doing is damaging to everyone including theselves. The only thing I can do is what ive been doing. When an oppertunity presents itself…….i simply do what I can.

    I don’t believe in god but I do believe in karma. I’ve done many many bad things in my life and I still pay for them daily.

    Wow thats alot of writing…….im more bored then I originally thought. Maybe I should take up knitting.

  10. Hey, knitting is not a bad idea! I know guys who do it very well!

    PlygKid, I think you pre-date me on this blog and I think I’m confusing you with another “plygkid.” You don’t sound like “him” at all. Would you be willing to email me? I’d bet dimes to dollars, you and I are closely related. Having said that, perhaps emailing me is hardly worth your consideration. Your choice…. as ever. 😉

    its.your.writing AT gmail DOT com

  11. haha in a place like colorado city where the family tree is basically a stump im quite sure we are related. Few people know my actuall Identity last time I checked……..unless people are blabbing……you know who you are. I’m extreemly interested in keeping my Idenity a secret……..cause im a ninja.

  12. and when you use the word pre-date……..it makes me feel old lol

  13. Ive never thought of myself as hateful and I don’t think I am. I’m just realistic. I realize that those who are FLDS have been brainwashed all their lives and that is very difficult to overcome. I also watched who helped and who didn’t when a call came for help in dealing with the women and children fr the ranch. Those who offered help were the Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians and Catholics. The LDS didn’t do squat.

  14. LOL…. well, I didn’t really mean it like that! I just meant you seem to have found this site before I did. I’m pretty sure I’m much more ancient than you. If you’re still thinking of yourself as a “Kid” you’re a damn-sight wiser than most.

    I was just searching for previous posts by “PlygKid” … maybe they aren’t you at all. Goodness knows there are a helluva lot of plygkids making their way out here in the big wide world!

    Anyway, like I said… your choice, as ever.

  15. well theres a few plygkids. there is brian mackert and there was one called plygchild who is allen holm if I remember correctly.

    I talked with most the key people on this blog before this blog. OH the KS days…….oh how do I miss that nonsense. Does anyone still call themselves part of the KS?

    I will always be a kid. Its the secret to my youthfull appearance…..well except the bald thing…….and the grey whiskers……and then theres the saggy belly thing…….but other than that.

    I wouldnt call me wise either……. I would say smartass.

  16. okay, smartass… lol I don’t even know what “KS” stands for. I never went far enough back.
    I could not care less what anyone else thinks either. Maybe that’s part of the getting out syndrome.

  17. And…. it’s definitely wise to keep up that “I will always be a kid” attitude. It’ll take you a long ways.

  18. ks stands for Kindred Spirits. These guys here can tell you more about it than I can.

  19. Kindred Spirits was an email group, some of whom were friends IRL, who split apart almost two years ago. The group that calls them selves that at this time do not control this blog and few of them post here by their own choice.

    I don’t understand why the urge to understand a culture of abuse and to help the victims of it is interpreted as hate. But, of course, everyone is going to have their own opinions whether I grant them leave or not.

  20. You dont help anyone by belittling their belief. If I was still a little plyg boy wondering how I could get myself out and I read this blog………I would assume I was going to be stoned in town square simply because of what I was born into.

    Granted I havn’t read every comment (I dont have that kind of time). The general concensus of what I have read is as long as people out there fly the flds flag they are abusive rapist.

    Think of my rambling as feedback from one (just one) former plyg. What does my opinion mean to somone like you…..absolutely nothing.

  21. The way I see my role now in reference to polygamy is that I am helping to keep this blog going as a place for real facts to be posted, for people who have left to make contact with each other and for people who have just discovered the phenomenon to get information. I have seen a few people stumble through here who really needed us and we were able to provide them with resources, with hook ups to other folks. That makes it all worth it. Mostly, I just drop by and check on the chatter and move on. I don’t post as often as I used to.

    I don’t kid myself to think that that’s a huge contribution, but it’s something I can do. I give money now and then to people who really provide help. If I lived closer, I would try to do more, but there’s not much practical help I can give from across the other side of the US. I’ve done volunteer work for abuse victims here where I live.

    I think the political situation in Utah is weird and that the LDS is definitely part of why it is weird. Speculating on why or how exactly is not very useful; it would take some one a lot more knowledgeable than me about their more recent history to figure that out. I also know that there are LDS who dislike polygamy every bit as much as I do and who do more to fight it. I also know that LDS outside of Utah might be completely clueless of the political stuff that goes on in Utah. I know more about the ugly history of the LDS and more about current LDS members who are good people than I did when I started reading this. I know a few ex FLDS members pretty well, chat with them almost daily. They don’t seem to think I’m hateful.

    I’m not going to apologize for being appalled at a culture that uses women as gifts to be awarded or taken away, that tears up families on the whim of one man, that forces kids out of school and into work or motherhood way too early and that hides a strong pattern of child abuse.

    In the past, Plygkid has spoken very kindly to me, has thanked me for my words and kindness but has also once or twice gotten really mad at me for reasons I don’t understand. I’m glad to see you around and will try my best to treat you with respect even if I still don’t understand.

  22. Methinks you give yourself far too little credit. You’re just full of piss & vinegar. lol

    Are you going to college?

  23. I would not say your opinion means nothing. Anyone who is trying to be a good, compassionate person is going to examine themselves based on feed back from others. I will consider what you say, combine it with what I hear from others and then make my own judgement.

  24. My last was directed to PlygKid… I forget sometimes I’m not fast enough to get ahead of another poster, so I ought to put a salutation in, eh?

  25. Yeah, my last was to Plygkid, also.

    I’ve got to go shopping, this is interesting but real life awaits…

  26. Oh you are just so very popular here today, PlygKid. 😀

    I’m going outside for some natural vitamin D.

  27. Im not singling anyone out as hatefull. Its just the general feeling I get from this blog. That doesn’t mean everything anyone says is hatefull. Like in all things theres good bad ugly and……well then theres me that pulls off all 3 at the same time…..but mostly the ugly.

    No I’m not going to college. I don’t even have a high school diploma or GED but I am an absolute expert in my field wich will only say its in the construction industry. (of course)

    I’m not dilusional enough to think that anything I say holds any weight. I’m just a jerk with a computer and an internet connection lol.

    dont worry though work will pick up then you wont have to hear me for another few years :p

  28. i sent you an email e.texas if you didn’t get it my email is plyg_kid at yahoo dot com

  29. Well, you made me smile. Later, gator.

  30. I think most of the time there is meaningful and productive discussion here. The diversity of our backgrounds allows for many different perspectives. On a personal level, it helps me reconcile the constant dissonance created by my own family’s practice of mormon polygamy (which they suffered immensely for) with my strong feeling that it is inherently abusive and creates inequality and increases the risk of child sexual abuse.

    I don’t hate polygamists. And I very rarely have seen “hate” among the regulars here, and certainly not from Stamp.

    And, PK, your opinion is just as important to me as anybody else’s here. And if you got out of the FLDS, I’m glad.

  31. People always smile when I say im going to leave for a long time lol

  32. PK: I also miss the old KS days. When you and CA Jim got going I made sure I was not eating or drinking in front of my computer. Would have had to replace several key boards. LOL.
    Anyway, welcome back PK. Sorry your work is slow, but that is how it is in the construction trade. Not going to comment on the hateful posts issue. It is an individual interpetation.

  33. Former Horseshoe Bend Idaho School District Superintendent denies allegations he took a plural wife:

    http://www.kivitv.com/news/local/137194313.html

  34. Me and Ca Jim? We never got along. He is one of the people I like the least.

    I have to admit it was pretty funny when me and that Steven guy were on the trib boards at the same time…..but we always stayed on topic right?…..right?

    And jolly good show on the individual interpetation thing.

  35. Didn’t the second wife just petition the courts to change her last name to Cook?

  36. I noticed Warren hasn’t predicted any destructions for TX , maybe his Zion / New Jerusalem is there , I can only hope ! “Lozen Gayn ” Yiddish / Hebrew for let them go ! PLEASE GO !! LOL other-Anon

  37. I should change my last name to cook and my middle name to can.
    PK Can Cook

    has a nice ring to it.

  38. PK

    Thanks for the laughs… I knew the humor would show up some time soon.

    but I gotta ask…. where did you pick that up? I’m thinking it was in the Genes – when you checked the pockets.

  39. My sense of humor comes from a lifetime of uneccisary beatings. I used to complain alot how life isn’t fair. I wont go into much detail beyond that. I don’t need anyone feeling sorry for me. I used to be a whipped puppy. I used to be shy. I used to have low self esteem(in some ways i still do) It took a long time for me to realize that if you laugh at the world the world simply laughs back.

    Today is almost over here. Work finally came in so you probably wont see me for a long while again.

    Good talking to yall and may your verbal plyg bashing go well. ……..uh….amen.

  40. Yes, PW – the name change petition is being published in the newspaper right now. But he denies marrying her. Not the best way to hide your new plural marriage. I think other-anon would say “you can’t fix stupid.”

  41. PK: Sorry about my poor memory, must be a sign of age. LOL. Anyway, I remember that you and someone else would go off on some topic, often food. I would bust my gut laughing at the back and forth banter. Think it was on the SLT comment boards.

  42. Lindsay put on her tennies and went to ShortCreek with….. Trent Nelson.

    🙂 <<< Biggest smile in a long long time.

    Walton

  43. OK

    Now I see why the FLDS are afraid of Gentiles.

    Brought to you and autotuned by our favorites, the Gregory Bros and Sister

    http://www.liveleak.com/e/d60_1326850572

  44. This one is more up Warrens alley. Forgot to tell her to keep sweet though!

    http://www.liveleak.com/e/26e_1326849145

  45. I can imagine that some comments could be taken very personally by folks on the inside. If the point is to help such people recognize that this is a community that supports them and is here to help them transition out, then the tone of many comments is probably not ideal. If it is, among other things, to help people who grew up in the FLDS to come to grips with the reality of what they lived through and what family members still face, then the general tone is appropriate. I don’t think it is possible to fully serve both purposes at once.

    As an outsider who only became aware of the situation through books, newspaper reports and blogs such as this one, the need I feel to get involved is not driven by anger or malice towards people I’ve never met. It is driven by a strong sense of justice. If it were simply a matter of informed adults freely choose this faith and this lifestyle, few people would care. However, when young girls are undereducated and manipulated by fear of abandonment or worse, into early marriage and motherhood -that isn’t choice. When parents expel underage boys without preparing them to fend for themselves in the outside world, that’s evil. Someone has to speak up for the children -even if their parents are good-hearted people who truly believe they are doing the right thing. The consequences of such practices are just as bad – whether motives are innocent or evil.

    No doubt there are many good hearted people in the FLDS, who love and support one another and who are truly frightened and confused by recent events. It must be very painful. Many are living according to what they were taught – and trying very hard to do the right thing as far as they understand it. I get that – but practices that harm children and deny them knowledge of or access to both their legal and their fundamental human rights (such as freedom from forced or coerced marriage), must be stopped. The courts have been very clear on this point: You can believe whatever you want. Your practices, however, must conform to the law. The fact that some belief systems dictate breaking the law is a problem left to the faithful to sort out for themselves. Any individual or group has a right to advocate that certain laws be changed – however if the rest of society can point to evidence that certain illegal practices sometimes or often result in material harm to others or impose a financial burden on taxpayers – they are unlikely to be successful.

    That is a harsh and unfortunate reality. Even so, it is always better to face the truth and deal with it than try to rename darkness as light.

    In fact, if there are any FLDS readers: I’d like to challenge you to do the following: Pray to God, asking him to show you the truth and then give you the courage to accept the truth- even if it violates beliefs you once held dear. This applies to all truth. If your eyes see evidence of something wrong – have enough faith to believe God Himself can handle your questions. He doesn’t need you to make excuses for Him – to yourself, to family members or to the outside world. He can handle Himself. He is God. If you trust Him, you have to trust Him with the truth. John 8:44 proclaims that the Devil is a liar and the father of lies. Why, then, would God ever instruct you to lie on his behalf – to yourself or anyone else?

    True faith is strong enough to stand against any questions. “God is light. In Him there is no darkness at all.” (1 John 1:5) If someone tells you to lie, or to ignore truth (any truth, no matter how large or small) – how can they possibly be from God? “No lie comes from the truth” (I John 2:21) I’m not going to tell you what to believe. That would be a waste of space. I’m only asking that you stifle any impulse to ignore, explain away or justify things you know to be wrong on God’s behalf. You (no more, but certainly no less than anyone else) need God’s help. God does not need yours.

  46. Very well said Jerrie.

  47. The way I see it, is that this site has served more as first responders. There were hundreds of children placed back at risk on the YFZ ranch, and its no secret the children in the other flds enclaves are at risk too.

    So there has been a concentrated effort to pour water on the flames, the burning fire that has women and children at risk.

    As people make it out, there are other venues to help as we continue to put water to the fire.

    The Hope org, Holding out Help, the Safety Net, various family and others are there to help people walk through a transition. This wouldnt be the place for that, unless one is looking for the truth about Church activities and the ongoing saga of various leaders.

    Personally, I never considered this site as a vehicle that would give the entire flds community a revelation that would change their minds (though this site and others evidently get under leaders skin, leading to the “no internet” manifesto) but rather a vehicle that would expose the various ongoing abuses to the general public and LE agencies.

    If as a society we are going to say its ok to molest children and abuse women, well we need to expose that these things are indeed happening and what effect they have on people.

    And then we have to decide just what we as a society are going to put up with. Its been shown that Texas wont put up with child molesters, even though the SCOT and CPS got heartburn and passed all those kids back into the burning barn.

    And so the story continues. And I see links to the HOPE org and Holding out help are in the blogroll on the right.

  48. I have continued reading this blog but have kept away from commenting per my decision a few weeks ago, because the whole polygamy thing is so absolutely pathetic to me, after several years of research, that I can’t get myself upset regularly about it anymore. Personal disgust and outrage that this continues to take place here in the US is what has driven MY comments and phone calls to authorities. These groups get away scot-free with things others in the US are not permitted to. The outrages pile up but apparently our nation is supposed to keep permitting the black eye these groups represent.
    I am so disgusted by “plygkid’s” little comment above right before he went off to work. He said “may your verbal plyg-bashing go well.” I remain amazed at such hypocrisy. The whole polygamy belief system as practiced by flds, kingstons, etc. teaches all born into this nonsense that every person outside their group is, let’s see now…. “unworthy”, “condemned,” “a son of perdition,” ….you know, everybody else except them is to be disdained, distrusted, used only for monetary gain, (bleeding the beast, and underbidding contractors because they follow labor laws and plygs don’t)…and on and on, as long as it’s purely negative. All the rest of us are going straight to “bleep” (you remember, it starts with an h, plykid) in the plyg cult teachings. Plygkid, seems you can’t be any more honest than your upbringing allowed where this fact is concerned, eh? In spite of fact that you apparently have made other “adjustments” in your way of thinking over the years?
    ..Does flds not instruct its young constantly that persons who do not follow their “prophet” absolutely perfectly are all, every single one, going straight to “he##,” and that’s that, period? Time and again former plyg group individuals have reported that their group based entire teachings on bashing the rest of humanity because the rest of humanity is not worshipful to their”prophet.” Everything taught centers on polygamy, prophet worship, and condemnation of all non-group persons, sun-up to sundown, year after year.
    Whine, whine, whine, plykid ! These law-defying, abusive, enslaving groups are merely receiving back a taste of what they’ve been dishing out with a great big old ladle for decades!
    If it were not so pathetic, it could actually be entertaining. But it’s what I call totally hypocritical, totally childish, and totally invalid- just like the whole flds lifestyle. Where children are born for the express purpose of becoming slaves to evil leaders, and trained to become felons, according to the laws of the nation they constantly take advantage of? I’d say that’s what you call a very deserving bunch of “bashing” recipients.”

    Plygs don’t seem to mince words, why should those who know their numerous hidden foul deeds? Aint’ no way all those books written by former members could be just making all of this lawless cruelty up. I never once, in over 50 years of living in the US, have heard of such systematic cruelty taught to children as “righteousness” by flds and other organized plyg groups of the western US. The incest, the forced underage marriages and childbirth, the medical neglect, the forced hard labor of young males, the extortion of funds by leaders needed by families to properly care for their incredibly high number of children. It is astonishing lawlessness, and THAT’S what has driven MY
    “bashing.” The throwing out of boys as young as 13. The impregnation of girls as young as 12. When you wander on back, please do go for broke, plykid! Unload all the hypocrisy you’ve got the wind for, big fella!

  49. http://chrisnemelka.com/?p=283 Check this out. Interesting story about a man named Chris Nemelka.

    Be sure to follow thru with the other stories/posts listed on the side. Some things in this story has connections to some of the other stories posted here.

    Standing up and speaking out can and will help others. Not enforcing the laws and remaining silent only allow room for the victim list to grow.

    Walton

  50. Ooof!! And another one bites the bitter dust of misunderstanding.

  51. mom,

    I think you are very much misunderstand Plygkid. He has left the group. I have never heard him support the organization or the beliefs, just individual people whom he worked and lived with. Family, friends, etc. He’s also met with a lot of prejudices and misconceptions from those on the outside so he’s understandably angry. I’ll let him speak for himself, but I think maybe you should get to know him better before trying to interpret his point of view.

  52. Mom does have a point though, the FLDS are first and foremost to teach their kids to fear and hate those on the outside.

    And God forbid if you are a person of color, or gay.

  53. Guess its OK to be Gay if you are a brother to Warren though.

    Family Ties.

  54. mom just made me believe in god lol. This kind of irony cant be a coincidence. There has to be an invisible man somewhere in the univers crafting this somewhere. hahahahaha I cant even buy this kind of entertainment on amazon.

    Mom reminds me of my mom. hahahahahaha

  55. Here’s today’s latest on the Horseshoe Bend Idaho polygamist. Apparently he’s on the board of another educational association in Emmett, Idaho.

    http://www.messenger-index.com/news/article_10f6e236-411b-11e1-9737-0019bb2963f4.html#user-comment-area

    Wow, it seems like the press is kid-gloving this.

  56. Apparently the polygamist Idaho teacher can’t fix stupid , him & his family can’t !! lol .. other-Anon

  57. Oh, I understand mom’s point of view. I also sort of understand PK.

    Yes, other anon, it is kind of dumb. If you, first wife and second wife all work for the school system in a normal small town in the US, it’s not likely that you could all shack up together and no one would notice and even more unlikely that real polygamy would go well with the school board. Any body who was thinking could have predicted financial turbulence. But that’s what happens when you start thinking with your small head.

  58. Please help me out here. I have been reading the Chris Nemelka web site. Could someone fill me in with a little history, please? What is his game?

    Thanks
    PW

  59. Also, does anyone know if someone is writing a book about the trial and the aftermath?
    PW

  60. He’s just another con man claiming to get revelations from God. He also seems perfectly willing to tell women they are married to him, have children with those women and then refuse to pay child support. SSDD.

  61. LOZEN GAYN — ” Let them go ” to lands of refuge please , & stay out of Short Creek , PLEASE !! other-Anon

  62. The Statue at YFZ is going to be fun to visit on a daily basis, give homage to Warren and lick the idols dusty feet.

    Major ick factor though – the little girl he clutches..

    While I suppose he is training her to keep sweet and STFU.

    Never been a statue like it. The flds will have one of a kind – a statue commemorating pedophelia by a false prophet.

  63. Speaking of polygamy, story on Newt Gingrich implies that he wanted open marriage so he could have other women in marriage like relationships.

    From article in Houston paper:

    GOP presidential candidate’s ex-wife says Gingrich asked for an “open marriage” in which he could have both a wife and a mistress.”

    http://blog.chron.com/rickperry/2012/01/ex-wife-says-gingrich-asked-for-open-marriage/

    Wither it’s called a spiritual wife or mistress, what’s the difference?

    Newt needs to educate himself on how having multiple “spouses” is wrong IMO. Would suggest he read books like “Prophets Prey & Escape”

  64. It’s not considered asking permission if you ask AFTER you have already done the deed.

  65. Another in a long line of … It’s Ok if I stray, but if you do, it’s immoral … line of thinking.

  66. I think Gingrich is french toast, but it might take some time to fry it up.

    No way I see him becoming POTUS with this stain on his record. I knew there was baggage and I bet there is a lot more yet to come out.

  67. Headline in a new Spectrum news story about the Lorin Holm custody case:
    “Attorney to be appointed for children in FLDS case”

    http://www.thespectrum.com/article/20120113/NEWS01/201130330/Attorney-appointed-children-FLDS-case

    Tip:
    If you can’t view the article, copy/paste that headline into a Google search and you’ll be able to read it from there.

  68. Thanks Ejay. Hope other exed flds men will also fight for custody and visitation rights.

  69. I saw first hand as to what this FLDS mind-set does to the human psyche.The kids are cheap slave labor and the girls are fair game from the age twelve to any male member of the cult.I have nothing but contempt for it and could care less if anyone thinks i am too harsh.Come visit me in Houston some time and i will give you the whole gory grand tour.

  70. That article about the Holms custody case does not sound good to me. The judge wants to treat it like a normal custody case, in his words. As if it were normal for 10 year old boys to be taken out of school to work on a construction site, or 14 year old girls assigned in marriage to a man who already has several wives. I don’t feel good about it, sounds like another case of “we’ll take the kids out AFTER you prove that they have been harmed” rather than learning about the culture enough to see that the probability of them being harmed is very high.

  71. Betty, in the Holms case the father hasn’t been allowed to see the kids in a year. That’s the part that is being treated like a “normal custody case”. I am very hopeful that an ad litem has been appointed to represent the interest of the children. At the very least it will result in him being able to see his children, something that Lyle is telling the mothers to deny him at the moment.

  72. Thanks, Anon @7:33. I hope that’s the case.

  73. That said, as I recall mentioned in “Answer them nothing”, Shumate had hired a lady for a psych eval in one of the cases, and it ended up being an FLDS whitewash.

    I wish I could remember the details, but will say this, its in the book and Shumate pulled the trigger on it and stood by helping the FLDS with a hand.

    Now, public opinion has changed and he is finding it harder to give them the benefit of the doubt as easily, still, dont trust him fully. Still to be determined.

  74. Please help me out here. I have been reading the Chris Nemelka web site. Could someone fill me in with a little history, please? What is his game?

    Thanks
    PW

    PW said this on January 19, 2012 at 12:25 PM

    Here is a little more info on Chris Nemelka. this story titled Sealed Fate Page 1
    A burning in Ida Smith’s bosom leads her to Christopher Nemelka’s new spiritual order

    Also included here is his response to the story.

    Walton

  75. Here is a link to one of the videos he has out there: http://youtu.be/A5I1gvzyB2I PolygamyStory 1998

    You might recognize some of the people in this video. Vicki P. Trish Moore

    Be sure to read the statement at the very end. I know that Vicki was one of the people that had been on the ground floor with Tapestry Against Polygamy.

    The “Trish Moore” in the video goes by another name today.

    As long as Utah and Arizona continue to “do nothing” the problems we have seen/ continue to see will keep going on.

    Utah and Arizonas theory about not going after those practicing Polygamy unless they break other laws is such BS. They have allowed room for other laws to be broken. Shame on all those involved in these scams. Including the Federal Govt. by watching from the background.

    There is another video out there that shows Chris. N. having his kids film him while he tries to visit his “other kids”. His own sons record as police officers arrest him for violating a restraining order.

    Walton

  76. Here is the link to the story about Ida Smith and Chris : http://www.cityweekly.net/utah/article-13162-sealed-fate.html

    Sealed Fate by Stephen Dark

    Walton

  77. 5 x 10 ad on page 6 of the Seattle Times this morning. I checked the online version briefly, but did not see a link. I can scan and post if anyone would like to see it, but I’m guessing these are appearing in many places at the moment.

    First line is: Jesus Christ, Son Ahman.
    Next statement: I, Your Lord Jeuse Christ, Even Son Ahman, Speak to All Nations on Earth, My Own Revealing of My Soon Coming. Let All Hear My Will:

    The actual statements are pretty tame. “Repent and be of full humbling… as I send full judgements, etc. No specific threats, although it offers 6 of his recent works for sale – which do call out specific destructions. (Seattle is due for a tidal wave, if I recall correctly. That’s not impossible, but not highly likely given the geography of the region. He would have been safer predicting an earthquake.)

    Under the ad it says: “Paid for by Twin City Courier, 1020 W. Utah Ave., Hildale Utah.

    My son read the ad and shook his head. Then he perked up and (jokingly) asked if I thought he should contact them about placing a paid ad in his school paper. 🙂 Commerce and religion…

  78. Those concerned about this being in Shumate’s court have good reason to be concerned.

    Looked at my copy of “Answer them Nothing”

    Read pages 84-87

    Psychologist Dr. Christina Durham and Guardian ad litem join Shumate and the FLDS in trashing poor Ruth.

    That was then, this is now, but I see Shumate as pulling tricks saying this should be treated as a “normal custody case”.

    What has to happen out there for it to not be normal anymore?

    MUST Reading, check it out at the library if you have to.

  79. guardian ad litem Angela Adams, missed that.

  80. Yeah, that’s my take on it. One problem is that if the kids are teens and say they don’t WANT to see dad, it’s not good. If they do not consider the culture, then they will not go further and assume the father has done something horrible to alienate his children. He’ll probably get visitation but not custody and then the FLDS will “poof” his whole family and his visitation will be impossible to enforce. I hope I am wrong.

  81. As I said before & keep saying when it comes to FLDS sheeple ” you can’t fix stupid ” ….other-Anon

  82. Elizabeth Smart to be married this summer. Wonderful news, with this she defeats Mitchell who would have made her a plural wife. Take that Brian David Mitchell & Wanda Barzee.

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=18943581&title=elizabeth-smart-engaged-plans-summer-wedding

  83. It was posted earlier I believe about the FLDS placing ads in newspapers, they even put one in the SLTrib.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53342039-78/jeffs-lake-salt-tribune.html.csp#disqus_thread

    Guess the FLDS has cash to burn! Those ads aren’t cheap!

  84. OMG – I get back from rural Idaho this afternoon and guess what’s all over the front page of my Idaho Statesman?

    “Jesus Christ, Son Ahman…” advertisement paid by the Twin City Courier.

    Now that’s getting personal.

  85. LOL

    Not to leave any stone unturned.

    Did Warren send nasty grams to Kim Jun Il too?

  86. HA

    Free advertising

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53342039-78/jeffs-lake-salt-tribune.html.csp

  87. more on FLDS ads.

    The ads appear in Friday editions of The Washington Post, The New York Times, Minneapolis Star-Tribune, The Salt Lake Tribune and other newspapers.

    A Washington Post ad sales representative tells The Associated Press a quarter-page ad in the newspaper costs about $10,000.

  88. All their possessions are getting sold for these ads. Not to mention all their income. So sad.

  89. Here’s an article written by Dorothy Allred Solomon titled “My Father Was a Polygamist”

    http://www.elle.com/Life-Love/Society-Career-Power/My-Father-Was-a-Polygamist

    Ms Solomon was associated with the LeBarons & AUB, so it’s not directly tied to FLDS, but grew out of the same fundamentalism.

  90. Whats the rate of return on one of those pesky flds ads?

    They trolling for converts now?

  91. I don’t know Stamp, but they won’t ever get any converts if Vaughn Taylor doesn’t answer his phone.

  92. From the SLtrib, more on Warren Jeffs “revelations”

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/53344057-191/revelations-jeffs-calender-warren.html.csp

  93. Here’s a copy of the ad that the FLDS placed in the SLTrib.

    http://www.sltrib.com/csp/cms/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=MFnL$xv5csshBqWTzQ9Sms$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYtakhBHVhaOX56hGYbFPvIMWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_CryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg

    Hope link works, don’t know what the meaning of all this on part of FLDS. If they think this is some how going to free the felonious profit Warren Jeffs, they are just as delusional as Warren. Warren Jeffs will die just another forgotten inmate in the TDCJ.

  94. https://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=pkee0c1sm3felonsi106hebb5k%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/Denver

    Lindsay Whitehurst has a calendar of Warren’s revelations.

  95. I have one question…. what is a Nation of National Authority? are there nations that don’t have national authority.. or am I just seeing weird things here? I think I should go to bed or something.

  96. Umm, yes yehaa, that’s a little know mormon jurisdiction.

  97. If the end is near, why warn the nations with print ads?

    In 2011 for the first time, more people got their news online than from print media.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/03/14/us-media-readership-idUSTRE72D0WC20110314

    You’d think God would keep up.

  98. Ok, am I paranoid or does it sound on the fourth point line like he is trying to convert the masses?

  99. Jerrie

    A lot has been said online, just not the way he wants to say it.

    His moroni horn is indeed old school. Post office too. he he

  100. I think it sounds more like God talking if you imitate a bad King James translation and put in all extra and redundant words of your holy speaking that add my sacred hot air without any of the meaning of my holy word.

  101. For a while he was all about propping up the post office, mailing the revelations out across the nation and world. I guess he decided that the newspaper industry needed some propping up too and is now sharing the tithes with them.

  102. Such a big ad that saith so little.

    God didnt get much for his money that go around.

  103. Maybe he is preparing an appeal based on insanity?

  104. I think Ejay is correct in that this is for the flds people. It shows he is a prophet and is trying to warn the world. Hence, if you flds people stay faithful and believe in warren you will be saved from all these bad things. Also, we need more money so warren can keep getting the word out by mailings, newspaper ads, etc.
    What next, TV and radio ads? An flds website with the prophecies there?

  105. A while ago someone posted a link to “sociopath”. I was interested to note that one thing about sociopaths is that they have a very low tolerance for boredom….. that they often accelerate and provoke things simply because of that low tolerance.

    .Makes one think about how crazy he is going in that little room all by himself.

  106. I wonder if he will try to buy a google doodle.

  107. HHG, What you said. Also sociopaths ‘rage’ when lines are drawn. My guess would be that the TDCJ drew a pretty firm line when they pulled his phone privileges. This is likely his way of symbolically flipping them the bird.

  108. The following story treats revelation publications as a fundraising effort, hoping people will purchase the $5 revelations. Ha ha.

    http://www.8newsnow.com/story/16568173/i-team-flds-raising-money-for-jeffs

  109. So you spend thousands of dollars to teach someone else a lesson? LOL. How’s that working for you while you sit in your solitary jail cell, dude?

  110. Its hard to imagine the more intelligent in the flds group havent just about had enough and start working to help one another instead of throwing their money away.

  111. Don’t hold your breath.

  112. I saw a BBC special about the Phelps group (Westboro Baptist). It seemed eerily familiar. A whole group of people under fierce control who all think up is down, the sky is green and hate is kind because that’s what God wants. Humans.

  113. All those ads…

    I guess they placed those to counter the articles exposing Warren and his posse as child molesters?

    That doesnt explain away their crimes, or were they saying they want to share their judgements with others, they dont want it all to themselves?

    Thats going to be a tough sell upstairs.

    God is looking down and sees them in full judgement and resting in full blown fly infested stinky prison cells.

    Verily he saith to the crick homies, be full of prison, they let you squanderith thine mind body and soul.

  114. My guess is the point of the ads is to get the faithful involved in warning the nations about the final judgement. No doubt is is being sold as an act of compassion to ensure we are all duly warned and given the opportunity to repent before we are swept up in God’s judgements.

    WSJ clearly revels in his ability to torture his followers and make them say “thank you.” He will squeeze every last dime out of them, separate them as far as possible from the rest of society so that they feel they have nowhere else to turn and make it as hard as possible for them to admit (to themselves or anyone else) they made a mistake in following him. A classic abuser also does all he can to make sure his victims are guilty of real or imagined crimes – so that they feel they can’t turn to the larger society for help.

    There is no end game other than to turn as many followers as possible into fellow prisoners – without the walls. For WSJ, cruelty is it’s own reward.

    I find it frightening that he is so successful. I would love to be able to dismiss his followers as “stupid sheeple”, but I will never know how I would have responded growing up in that environment, believing what those I loved and trusted taught – with the ever present threat of abandonment and personal destruction hanging over me if I allowed myself to question those teachings.

  115. Jerrie, Thank you! for your last paragraph. That’s honest empathy.

  116. Yes, it is easier for us to feel the rage and disgust of such tyranny, than it is to feel that empathy Jerrie expressed. Most of us havent walked a mile in their moccasins.

  117. Well I walked a mile but it was on a different trail. Left me with no patience for some of the nonsense.

    Irt to the religious bubba that tried to mess up my family, well he is dead now but thats due to his bad living and health issues. And perhaps a little karma sent from above.

    That reminds me, about the same time Rajneeshi was famous up in Oregon, well he got booted from the US and died not long afterwards.

    Being “Prophet” always seems to be a precarious career. Burn bright there for awhile until…. in this case Texas takes your ringy dingy away.

  118. The ads appear in Friday editions of The Washington Post, The New York Times, Minneapolis Star-Tribune, The Salt Lake Tribune and other newspapers.

    If the sheeple aren’t readng these newspapers [or at least admitting to it, anyway], then I think it just helps WJ look desperately stooopid. I’m sure few of the people know how their money is being horribly wasted, at an alarming rate, so der profit can spout nonsense…at $10,000 a print ad page.

  119. New fundraiser idea: the sheeple would make more money setting up a bake sale after Sunday services on the lawn of the LDS church in St. George than they would peddling revelations.

  120. A bake sale, that’s a great idea. Would you please send smoke signals to Lyle to advise him of this wonderful opportunity!!

  121. At the rate the money is being syphoned [?] from their pockets, they probably couldn’t afford a Betty Crocker cake mix on sale! Let alone all the sep ingredients for something wonderfully homemade. But, I do love a good bake sale….FedEx could deliver!

  122. A Clear and Present Danger

    Excellent movie, just saw it again today.

    “You took an oath, you gave your word, to the People of the United States”

  123. Warren revelated in 2007 that he would one day publish to select in the outside world.

    That is why a print shop facility was constructed at YFZ.

    Nevermind that it was built over a vault.

    Anyways, he’s now a paperback writer.

  124. Speaking of paperback writers anon 2:10
    Here’s a song in honor of that paper backer writer, we know how he likes the Beatles–Not!

  125. Try Again:

  126. The British press on former polygamy victim Elizabeth Smart’s up coming marriage.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2090186/Elizabeth-Smart-engaged-Matthew-Gilmour-following-whirlwind-romance-South-France.html

  127. mc1199, you must not be a cook. If you buy all the ingredients of a cake in bulk and you make lots of cakes, then it costs about 1/4 the cost of a box cake mix. It’s only more expensive if you buy all the ingredients and then make only one cake. You are paying them quite a bit to measure the ingredients for you and mix them up with dried trans fats and lots of chemicals.

  128. Sorry to go off topic. Has anyone seen the Mormon Hair POOF blog recently? There’s a collage of pictures of Barbara Steed’s family (I think) can anyone identify them? Also, were the Steed family really that happy?

  129. I’ve been an occasional lurker since Warren’s trial. I thought some of the readers might find a certain juxtaposition of interest in my local paper, The Washington Post.

    A story today (1/22) on page A7: “Even behind bars, Jeffs rules polygamist sect with iron fist” (Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/todays_paper?dt=2012-01-22&bk=A&pg=7)

    A quarter-page ad on page A13 with (yet another) revelation vouchsafed to Jeffs (Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/todays_paper?dt=2012-01-22&bk=A&pg=13)

    The AP reports that a quarter page in the Post likely goes for $10,000.

  130. Welcome, bystander.

  131. …I should have read more of the comments; I see you guys knew about the ads.

    I will say that all kinds of stuff shows up in ads in the Post and the New York Times — people with the formula for world peace, people with a novel that will shatter all your preconceptions, people promising inner peace through cosmic levitation. They have all the effect you imagine they would.

  132. Warren Jeffs wins the “FREAK of the WEEK AWARD”, couldn’t think of a more deserving person, so here’s to the freak of the week:

    http://controlfreaku.com/wordpress/freak-of-the-week-01-20.html

    A big raspberry in his honor!

  133. On today’s date in 1987 murderer/forger Mark Hofmann began his prison term. Many believe he tortured the mainstream church with his forgeries in part due to his anger at the treatment by the church of his polygamous grandmother (sister in law of my first cousin three times removed). I really don’t know what “removed” means.

  134. Who better for Freak of the Week than the Patron Saint of Child Molesters?

  135. Winston Blackmore’s tax evasion trial begins today in Vancouver.

  136. Your first cousin and you share a common ancestor that is grandparent to both of you. You second cousin is your parent’s cousin’s child. In that case, the common ancestor for both of you is a great grand parent. You and your third cousin would share your great great grand parent and so on. The “removed” thing means that you and the other person are not the same number of generations from the common ancestor. Your first cousin once removed would be your great aunt’s child. Your shared ancestor is your great grandparents, but that cousin’s grandparent. Thus the cousin is only two generations “removed” from that ancestor and you are three generations “removed”. The number of times “removed” is the number of the fewest generation skips, so in this case only once removed based on your cousin being a grandchild of the common ancestor.

    A chart helps. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:European_kinship_system_en.svg

  137. Third Cousin: “removed” in genealogy refers to people who are a different number of generations from a common ancestor.

    The number of Gs is the number of “degrees” of cousin-hood. If we share a grandparent (one G), we’re first cousins. If we share a great-grandparent (two Gs), we’re second cousins. If I’m your third cousin, then you and I have a common great-great-grandparent.

    But if we’re a different number of levels (or “degrees”) from a common ancestor, the difference is the amount of removal. Let’s say Janice is your mother’s second cousin–they have their great-grandmother Lucille in common.

    Lucille is your great-great-grandmother (3 Gs = 3 degrees). She’s Janice’s great-grandmother (2 degrees). You use the smaller number as the degree of cousin-hood, and the difference between the numbers as the degree of removal.

    So you and Janice are second cousins (because 2 is smaller than 3), once removed (because 3 – 2 = 1).

  138. Thanks Betty & Bystander. I have never been able to understand that before. Very helpful.

  139. Rumor Mill . com

    All the marriages have been dissolved ?
    Who’s marry over there? raise your hand.

    Quote from “Power vs. Force”
    fundamentalist groups re: religious+forceful = Lowest frequency vibration in the human community. On the scale of 1000 to 1 they exist around 96 .
    Christ had the highest score at 1000. BOOM lol ( Lotta mojo eh? )

  140. SLC TV station on recent ads by Warren Jeffs, from article: “are watching this with interest and a little bit of concern.”

    http://www.fox13now.com/news/local/kstu-warren-jeffs-has-taken-out-newspaper-ads-sharing-his-apocalyptic-revelations-20120123,0,2937973.story

    Watch the video with article.

  141. More info on the alleged Horseshoe Bend polygamist. Looks like there are four children involved. Idaho Falls Post Register:

    http://hosted2.ap.org/IDIDF/5848642fab654a008ee1e48cdd184f82/Article_2012-01-13-School%20Superintendent-Marriage%20Scandal/id-5943e1177f5349349b738267c44f36e5

  142. The children are probably teens or adults by now, if they have been married 25 years.

  143. Yeah, Betty, and they’ve probably already got kids of their own.

  144. Anon, I wonder if fundamentalists score so low due to the increased shame associated with focusing on their sinfulness all the time. Worrying that they’re so sinful that god won’t even knock down the prison walls and let WSJ free.

  145. Uh oh! Don’t tell Warren… he might try to take credit for this.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46102926/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/sun-erupts-biggest-radiation-storm-seven-years/#.Tx35YG9SS3o

    The comments are a blast (no pun intended). Suspend liquid intake while reading. Just sayin’. 😉

  146. Check out Lindsay’s latest:

    “Restraining order made permanent in polygamous schoolhouse case”

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53357685-78/flds-holm-sect-building.html.csp

  147. Pilot posted more photos of amphitheater. Wonder if dedication is April 6th. Always been a date Warren did things on..
    http://www.eldoradoflds.us/01-23-2012/

  148. Great pics! As always, thank you, Pilot! They must just love him [legally] buzzzing their compound and taking pics.
    I couldn’t see it clearly enough, but is the like…razor wire across the back wall??

  149. THX Pilot!

    They are coming right along with the theater, but it looks like the old statue base thingy has been put on hold.

    Other odd things, looks like a little graveyard by the gate. Odd. Either that or a RV dump site. Just saying what it looks like. That place looks like its going to be ground up into one big gravel pit. What a dust hole.

  150. Oh, and are those little doggie houses in the one shot??? All lined up.

  151. Thanks pilot, excellent photos, many strange and bizzare buildings at YFZ, we have the temple of doom and the new amphitheater of the absurd, and many other oddities.

    One can only wonder what purpose or reasons for this building boom at YFZ. It must be part of what ever Lyle & Warrens endgame, lets hope it not a Branch Davidian, Jonestown end.

  152. MC

    The “dog houses” would be calf or goat shelters.

    Remember, no pets allowed.

  153. Anyways if its calf shelters, I guess the order for no sex didnt get filtered down to the farm animals…. just yet.

  154. Also THX BIB for the heads up on Winnie’s tax trial. That be the unravelling of him yet.

    The flds in the states have been serial non payers too, but I think back room deals are made and kept quiet.

  155. OOOPS

    Lie right there

    “”My religion has always been the religion of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints,” said Blackmore, wearing a dark suit in the witness box.

    “I believe in the Bible. I believe in the Book of Mormon.””

    ——————–

    He forgot the fundy part. Regardless he is in hot water.

    so ~snip~

    “Ottawa says tax laws governing religious congregations were designed for truly closed communes such as Hutterite colonies, where residents have no property or possessions of their own and work exclusively for the betterment of their community.

    Federal government lawyers insist Bountiful does not fit that definition, and have re-assessed Blackmore’s tax filings to add $1.5 million in additional income from 2000 to 2004 and in 2006.”

    http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20120123/bc_winston_blackmore_tax_trial_120123/20120123/?hub=BritishColumbiaHome

  156. The “dog houses” would be calf or goat shelters.

    Well, the ‘goat’ on right the end looks like a malamute…HA!!!

  157. Stamp, you are obviously acquainted with Zac Brown.

  158. Thanks for the pics Pilot. Looks like the Amphitheater is coming right along. I’m betting for an April 6 dedication.

    What the heck are the hollow rectangles at the front openings going to be? Ticket windows?

  159. MC, those are dairy calves living in the shelters.

  160. OK I went back and looked, I see maybe ten animals in front of the line of shelters, the one on the right does kinda look dog size but I think its a calf, looks white with orange or red spots, and see the cattle right behind them.

    I do have another hint, I’ve seen photos of their calves kept in similar enclosures, that time they were closeups.

  161. 3C

    Zac..? Havent heard the name. Private email me?

  162. Just emailed you. It’s really nothing! Just funny.

  163. Another great report by Daphne Bramham

    Vancouver Sun, on the Winnie tax trial

    http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Winston+Blackmore+Bountiful+centre+federal+court+fight/6039343/story.html

  164. Jeremy Johnson looks to be getting a fresh round of some 50 new indictments.

    As a refresher, he took a swipe at helping lost boys, but it ended badly, dont have all the details on that. But he is going to court over his allegedly fraudulent take of some 350 million in fees from unsuspecting customers.

    Also as a side note, Shurtleff thought it was all cool, and even posed with Jeremy’s fancy cars and planes.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/53356810-79/johnson-case-federal-indictment.html.csp

  165. EVERYONE needs to read the following written by a former FLDS member about what’s going on inside.

    From article: “This phone call has left me feeling sick and fearful for those within polygamy that I love. Beyond my family concerns this phone call left me feeling weak at the knees for what is bubbling up within the larger polygamist community. I don’t have any proof but I believe something horrible is brewing.”

    And “Some of the men are stockpiling bullets and survival gear. That is definitely a fearful sign if ever there was one.”

    Read the entire article:

    http://polygamybegone.com/2012/01/24/a-heartbreaking-phone-call/

  166. I understand her concern, but remember, they have been stockpiling goods and bullets from day one, with many apocalyptic dates come and gone.

    The stand by excuse when these dates come and go by as usual? Not enough faith. Just because Warren is in prison and HIS world has ended, doesnt signal the end of everyone elses world.

    Guess if telling people they cant have sex doesnt wig them out, another “end of the world ye peeps of little faith” will get them worked up. Sounds like its working on some of them, others, not.

  167. USA Today on Warren Jeffs and his ads. Article compares him to Tony Alamo, they are quite alike IMO.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/story/2012-01-24/warren-jeffs-ads/52766402/1?csp=34news

  168. Love the argument going on at the end of the USA Today article!

  169. A texan,
    how confident that Carrie rescued from polygamy is not someone who creates a persona and populates that world? There have been some who purported to live in Colorado City and to be blogging from there?

    HHG

  170. The FBI just arrested officers of a suburdan town in Conn. for blatant discrimination – why can’t they arrest the “law” in Az/Utah short creek?

  171. I’m with HHG. Just a little skeptical. Something about her writing style seems off to me.

  172. I’m with HHG. Just a little skeptical. Something about her writing style seems off to me.

    Betty said this on January 24, 2012 at 2:18 PM

    After reading her blog, it appears she’s not blogging from “short creek”. She states she is a law school student, so she’s blogging from law school. Her bio on the blog states she left polygamy as a teen along with her mother. Her writing style IMO is consistent with a person with a university education, admittance to law school requires a bachelors degree.

    The pilot on his website must think she is legit as he has posted a link to her website. IMO the pilot is reliable as they come.

    http://www.eldoradoflds.us/polygamy-blogs/

    Read her bio interesting as she speaks of fleeing polygamy, her high school experiences in SLC, and going on to university. Click on the link on pilot’s website.

  173. Also, if you do the math, she is saying that she became a 12 year old bride 13 years ago (currently 25 years old). At that point Rulon was still alive. So either it’s not for real or the problem of marriages so young goes back a lot farther than we thought.

  174. One of my short creek ancestors had a 12 year old bride at the time of the 1953 raid.

  175. I think underage marriages were going on long before warren. Perhaps not as flagrantly as warren did them, but were still taking place. I think carrie is real and is telling the truth in her blog.

  176. Why would the pilot, who lives in Texas, and is not a member or ex member of the FLDS know whether or not this anonymous person on the internet is legit any more than you or I would?

    I’m not saying she’s not legit, I’m just not completely convinced. After seeing several con artists exposed, I’m slow to jump in with both feet.

    As far as the style, I’m not talking about grammar or vocabulary. I’m talking about a lack of phrases used by many exFLDS folks and the lack of certain attitudes. It is possible that someone who left at 12 years old could change a lot more than someone who left at 30 years old.

  177. As exflds I have to agree with Betty’s assessment. I’m not convinced. It comes across as too simulated and artificial imo. I could be wrong but it bothers me enough that I quit reading it.

  178. Also, if you do the math, she is saying that she became a 12 year old bride 13 years ago (currently 25 years old). At that point Rulon was still alive. So either it’s not for real or the problem of marriages so young goes back a lot farther than we thought.

    Betty said this on January 24, 2012 at 3:13 PM

    Rulon Jeffs by the time this person was 12 was only a figurehead controlled by Warren Jeffs, Warren Jeffs was in complete control. Rulon Jeffs died in 2002. Warren Jeffs became leader after Rulon became incapacitated in 1998, speaking as voice for his father.

    With Warren in control it is quite possible.

  179. Time will tell. No point in arguing about it.

  180. I’ve heard about all those predictions WSJ has been sending out thru Vaughn Taylor so called patriarch to various newspapers , many of them I heard before over the past 25-30 years , I remember when Vaughn was a nobody/ nothing working for Utah Tool & Die in SLC in the late 70’s -early 80’s , you can’t fix stupid !! other-Anon

  181. regarding http://polygamybegone.com/2012/01/24/a-heartbreaking-phone-call/

    Maybe I am not as jaded as others or am more naive than others – But, as much time as it took someone to write all that down, I don’t think many would do that under some alterative motive.

    I wish her the best and hope she does succeed in getting a law degree and using it to help others. Lord knows there are plenty who need help. I certainly look back at my life and think I had/have a very sweet easy life and could have been more selfless in my endeavors. I will be the last to knock someone else’s more admirable life goals or their blog about traumatic events in their lives.

  182. I’m not convinced that Carrie is real and in fact will go to just the opposite extreme and say that it isn’t a real story. There are no records that back up this claim (and they were fanatical record keepers). I have talked to several who were in the group at this time and they all say it’s bull, that there were young girls married off years ago and then the age was 16 and up for a long time and it wasn’t until Warren married 13 year old Ida Vilate that the really young ones started happening. It just doesn’t fit.

    There is no mention of this mother going back and getting her other children anywhere in the dictations and Warren dictated everything. Carolyn Jessop is mentioned prominently in the dictations so it didn’t bother him to dictate about apostates.

    My best guess is that this is an attempt by someone at creative writing and so far they seem to have snookered in several.

  183. Watergirl, There have already been some fake web pages that were quite involved – one that was pro polygamy with a pretty young college aged girl talking about finding the family she was going to marry into, yada yada. That one I think was debunked because of details of her pregnancy and the fact that she stole photos from another blog and was found out. We had one person who was very active on the news forums on polygamy and friends with many of us. She made up an FLDS family who had escaped and our friend was helping them get settled, even got donations of money and flowers and cards sent to these imaginary people. That ruse went on for over a year. When found out, she said she just wanted to tell us what we wanted to hear. It was quite upsetting.

    So we are jaded for a reason. There is something about this whole topic that draws special people in any meaning of the word “special”.

  184. I just read the comments about me and my blog. Please know this I am a real person. I can’t convince you of what to believe. I suggest you trust your heart and go with God.

    I care deeply about those leaving polygamy. I feel called to speak to those who are fleeing polygamy today and to the LDS that believe they have no historical connection to the evils of polygamy.

    If you are uncomfortable reading my blog I suggest you stop. If I ever give advice that is not helpful to those fleeing polygamy please correct me. I will try to be humble enough to listen.

    When I started my blog my mother was extremely opposed to it. She was fearful about bringing shame or humiliation to any family member still living within Polygamy. She is also concerned about my safety.

    I disagree with her completely but I also respect the Biblical command to ‘Honor thy Father and Mother…’ I promised I would be very careful to not provide details that would identify either my family or the group we came from.

    While I have never identified myself with the FLDS as others above seem to imply, it is true that they are the ones who are in the most turmoil. They are the ones who are having the most people fleeing from their ranks. I feel called to speak to those who have fled that group – but also to speak to the needs of others.

    Sorry if my words do not sound like you would like. I have tried VERY hard to escape that vocabulary. I don’t wear poofy hair styles now and I don’t speak as though I once did.

  185. God bless you and your mother, Carrie. Heaven knows this polygamist situation needs all the people with experience and ideas and determination that it can possibly get. I really think it is a scourge.
    I have gotten to the point where I can’t handle the anger I experience about it anymore, but I continue to read many comments even though I sit out on making my own most of the time now.
    I think our nation might have made more progress dealing with it effectively if we didn’t face so many other scourges as well. Best wishes to you.

  186. IMO Carrie is legit, there appears to be no reason to doubt her. I can understand how many can doubt her because of past experiences with Mudpucky, Street and others. In any case she is an excellent writer, better than some of the reporters at the SLTrib & D-News.

  187. Here’s a report on the building going on at YFZ from the SLTrib:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/53368041-191/amphitheater-base-complete-jan.html.csp

  188. Everyone please check the comments on the article.

  189. “poofy hair styles now” Uh…but you just did, carrie. That is an example of the inconsistencies of your story.

  190. Hey, Carrie – you and I must have relatives in common, whether you were from short creek or any of the other fundamentalist enclaves. You name em I’ve got em. Ha ha. Glad things have gone well for you on the outside. Can you help me figure our ties? We are Wood/Barrett/Bess/Turley/Kunz/Hatch/Romney/Hazzaard/Lee/

  191. A Texan,

    Not doubting her because of Mudpucky or Street. What an odd idea. Did they perpetrate a fraud? No, they are just plain nuts, but they are clearly who they are while being nuts. I was fooled by my own friends and people who are supposedly on the same side. More than once.

  192. Here’s the latest on Winston Blackmore’s trial:

    http://www.theprovince.com/news/Bountiful+polygamist+defines+followers+religous+commune+federal+appeal/6045446/story.html

  193. He could not remember all the wive’s names. I guess we can assume he can’t remember all his kids.

  194. Ha Ha! Couldnt recollect his religion either, claiming LDS.

  195. The article on Winston has some good Canadian comments. Of course, there is the obligatory supporter in their. Who says polygmists dont have internet access?

    Oh thats just the Jeffy club.

  196. New peer reviewed article on polygamy appearing in a journal sponsored by the Royal Society (oldest scientific organization)

    http://www.straight.com/article-590456/vancouver/ubcled-study-finds-polygamy-leads-greater-social-problems-monogamous-marriage

  197. I read Carrie’s blog. She doesnt sound FLDS. She doesn’t look FLDS. She could be AUB or one of the other groups. In the end it probably doesnt matter. Truth or not shes a good writer.

  198. Here is a copy of Professor Heinrich’s article : http://www.scribd.com/doc/79400042/Social-Problems-Associated-with-Polygamous-Vs-Monogamous-Marriage

  199. Look familiar? http://www.123rf.com/photo_11181609_smiling-female-student-posing-in-a-library.html

  200. From Lindsay Whitehurst’s blog in the SLT.

    “Oral arguments will be held at 9 a.m. on March 20 in the United Effort Plan Trust case, the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals decided today.”

    It will be an intetresting case to follow. Ms. Whitehurst plans on being there for first hand reports.

  201. Thanks, Anon, for the photo. When I saw the photo, I thought it was fake. For one, it’s professional quality; it’s hard to get good lighting between two rows of library shelves without professional light racks. Second, who takes a portrait like photo in a library while holding books? Seemed to me like something that would be done for a college catalog.

  202. “Carrie’s” writing is a little too polished and I agree with Betty that the picture looks fake. I don’t buy it.

  203. Polygamy Be Gone has an IP address out of Plano, Texas under a Brian Brock. It is through Layered Technologies.

  204. Thanks for your research, anon @ 7:34.

  205. It appears that “Carrie” is a fraud, thanks everyone for finding it out, Someone needs to let pilot know so he can remove the link to that site. This person also posts on Trib, Wonder how one could let them know this is a fraud?

  206. JMO, I think “Carrie’s” readers are beta testers for a writer who has done the proper research into polygamy and its foibles — what any good writer would do. God knows there’s plenty of it out there to research! It’s just that s/he hasn’t put enough emotional guts into it. It’s dry – reads like a research paper.

    The blog is a way of getting feedback before making a bigger leap into scriptwriting or some other published work.

    In “her” defense, even if Carrie WAS real, she would not be posting her real picture, now would she?

  207. Good point Ejay,especially given her reluctance to even identify the group she was associated with before her escape.

  208. Why post a photo at all, chemist? What purpose does a fake photo have other than to deceive?

    Her (?) latest post talks about a relative being instructed to call her and encourage her to repent and talks about fear and turmoil in the polygamist community including those in Texas, Utah, Canada and Mexico. That’s a very open indication that her relative, at least, is in the FLDS and wants her to “return” to the FLDS. She also talks about poofy hair and prairie dresses in other posts. Any other groups dress like that? So it sounds to me that she has clearly pointed to the FLDS. Saying she is not identifying any group is disingenuous. Note that she doesn’t really say she didn’t come from the FLDS in those exact words. Her word choice is carefully calculated to get you to make an assumption of a statement that is not really there.

    Now, let’s assume that her story were true . How many escaped 12 year old brides who left 13 years ago do you think there are? The leaders who instructed her relative to call her could surely figure out who she is in that case. Not only is she informing them about her relative’s phone call, she’s giving a pretty good description of where she and her mother are and how to find them. So if she were real, and she wanted to protect herself and her relatives, she’s doing a really bad job of it. Doesn’t sound like the actions of someone smart enough to be in law school, to me.

  209. Find IP Address Location for ‘My IP’ 74.200.243.251
    Continent: North America (NA)
    Country: United States (US)
    State: Texas
    City: Plano
    Postal Code: 75093
    Area Code: 972
    Metro Code: 623
    ISP: Layered Technologies
    Organization: Layered Technologies
    Time zone: America/North_Dakota/Center
    IP Address Lookup related for ‘My IP’ 74.200.243.251
    Continent Lat/Lon: 46.07305 / -100.546
    Country Lat/Lon: 38 / -98
    City Lat/Lon: (33.0347) / (-96.8134)
    IP Language: English
    IP Currency: United States dollar($) (USD)
    IDD Code: +1

    Glad to give instructions on how to locate IP addresses of “questionable” blogs, etc.

  210. Right you are, Betty. Very nice analysis!

  211. Good point, Betty. I agree with your analysis, too.

  212. I don’t care if it’s a common way to get feedback on your writing, I find it deceitful.

  213. Discerning fact from fiction is a critical factor if things around the FLDS are going to change.

    Fiction masquerading as fact is unhelpful at best and counterproductive at worst.

  214. Well, chalk up another one alongside Almost Heaven and Megan’s blog.

    I think calling it a “fraud” though is a little strong… I dont see them collecting money or anything besides “likes” on the Sltrib.

    Heck almost every post on the trib was funny as hell and garnered 20 or so likes.

    I kind of feel its like the funny papers or political cartoons. A hoot to read, but take it with a grain of salt.

    We all know there are real abuses and people in danger right now… Dont let a Bill Middlediddle or Carrie distract you.

    In other real news, the UEP trial is going to be a make or break deal.

    Funny, oral arguments will begin March 30 and Warren wont be able to make it… or call in!

  215. Twist

    I agree it can be counterproductive.. but LE is way past the point of discovery and cant dismiss the crimes as the product of imaginative writers.

  216. Appears the polygamy be gone website has been placed on private viewing or shut down. If the admin of this Texasflds can get in contact with wordpress, perhaps “the operator of polygamybe gone can be removed altogether.

  217. More important is the harm Warren Jeff’s rambling and brain washing from within prison to his followers, who live in their own prisons. Hope he will be seen more as a dangerous cult leader than just another religious nut and stop his contact and influence over his flock permanently.

  218. Think we all hit a nerve with “Carrie”! One less fraud to deal with.

  219. Changing the subject a little, here is an interesting article I hadn’t seen regarding whether mormon polygamous history is relevant to Romney’s campaign. I question some of the quotients cited. Is is the Deseret News:

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700216622/Is-LDS-polygamy-history-relevant-to-2012-campaign.html?pg=1

  220. Stamp things like that are more than a distraction. Some of her “words” cut thru to the bone when she started talking about the build up of weapons and ammunition. Anyone knowing the history including the Swapp stories/LeBarons and the many other stories can’t ignore the outcome of such.

    She was adding fuel to an already lit fire. If any place but in the media outlet.

    Her comments concerning the LDS and Desseret Industries was to the point of nausea. IF this person was really doing research she would have learned that many people who have been kidnapped will kiss the hand that feeds them. So why the push?

    What impressed me big time about all this is that some people here followed their gut and spoke up. AND …. to the anon. who knows the tech stuff and brought proof. AND… said it out loud. I am very proud of you guys/gals.

    Walton

  221. I thought you guys liked a good story 😛

  222. Glad to help with research and tech, anytime. This is too critical an issue for someone to try and “fake it” for whatever reason….ala Rozita Swinton.

  223. Oops, sorry, I am PW. I posted under anon on the tech stuff. I meant to leave my initials. I do security research and didn’t log in properly.

  224. PlygKid- I love a good story. I like it even better when they are marked fiction or non fiction.

    Mind games are dangerous.

    Walton

  225. Does make me wonder how many internet sweeps and fact checks were done on me lol. What did anyone find? Did anyone find out im really Brad Pitt or anything like that? lol

  226. Best I can tell with my limited actual research about anyone here is…….they cant be trusted with my name. Holy Crap guys. I gave my name to few in confidence.

  227. Don’t worry, PlygKid, I only researched Polygamy be gone because of private info I had received on the site. I only research blogs, corporations, etc., not individual people. Whole different set of security clearances that I do not want!

  228. I raised the question to Carrie’s identity because the SLT posts vacilated wildly from the character proposed which was supposed to bridge between LDS and FLDS. While praising Deseret industries the character often attacked directly the LDS, and, since, I think the LDS could help a lot with changing laws and enforcement of laws in Utah, I didn’t think it was helpful.

    Plus if we are going to refer people to truthful stories to support a consensus here about the evils of polygamy then we should be pointing to truthful stories.

    Thanks to those who did the actual work.

    PlygKid we don’t have to fact check you we all know that you are really Brad Pitt!!!!!!

  229. I have obtained the article lined above on polygamy through history and across modern cultures as well as the one which has the data on 1800s Mormon polygamy – I am going to add those to my bookmark pages that I can use to paste into comments elsewhere for people who bring up a “let adults alone” argument…..

    excellent articles…. along with the Canadian case documents!

  230. One last comment for now….

    The tax fraud trial for Winston does not generate the kind of wink wink let them be kind of comments – I guess people are more tolerate of child and sex abuse than financial abuse…

  231. PW if you are out there, here’s the e-mail address the “Carrie” person has been using;

    carrieelizabeth87@yahoo.com

  232. I think the tax case hits them in the pocketbook.

    And PlygKid are you telling us you aren’t Brad Pitt?

  233. I kinda figured Carrie was a fraud because I’ve heard her story before. I actually heard it from a person wo was not a part of polygamy. I heard it from a person that was actually Travelling Irish. Another group with assigned marriages and marry them young. Carrie’s story had a bit more flare.

    I did have to ask myself…what if im wrong and its legit. If i start screaming fake fake fake…..wouldnt I be a total A-Hole. And im not really in the business to decide whats real or not. Thats why I say she was a good writer. Some people dont have the words to describe what they want. Some people have an abundance of words to describe very little.

    As for the looks. All the main bloodlines have looks of course. My wife and I play a little game when we go shopping. We call it spot the plyg. We recently added a new feature to the game. You have to guess the bloodline. Cooke Jessop Barlow Black Jeffs Steed. Its probably been abou a year since we added that feature to the game and she is spot on. I couldnt see a single one of the bloodline atributes in the Carrie photo. The best I got is she had the body shape of a Lane.

  234. Email address pings out of Brooklyn, New York. Sure is a long way from SLC and Short Creek?!

  235. Pings out of Brooklyn but is registered in Sunnyvale California.

    Country: United States
    Region: California
    City: Sunnyvale
    Postal Code: 94089
    Latitude/Longitude: 37.424900 / -122.007401
    ISP: “Yahoo!”
    Organization: “Yahoo!”
    Host Name: mta-v5.mail.vip.mud.yahoo.com

    IP address is numbered 66.94.238.147. This IP address is active in United States, and located in Sunnyvale, California. IP Country code is US. IP address ISP is “Yahoo!”, organization is “Yahoo!”. Its hostname is mta-v5.mail.vip.mud.yahoo.com. IP address longitude is -122.007401 and latitude is 37.424900. Postal code of this IP is 94089 and area code is 408.

  236. Of course I’m brad pitt. My ookie wookim snookie Jolie has her causes and this one is mine. Duh!

  237. http://www.nndb.com/people/950/000055785/

  238. PW – How do you do that? << This is a question that I really don't want an answer for as I admit, it would be way over my head. It is more like a statement made with amazement and then a question mark.

    I've got one for ya. I've had someone in my computer for a few years. When I first noticed him/her I took my computer in and got it fixed. And then it happened again. For the last few years, we've been just working around each other.

    I don't have a problem with Big Brother if Big Brother looks like a Texas Ranger. But if he is one of those "Big Brothers" out of Utah that has something to do with the LDS Church… I have a problem.

    How can I find out? or do I really want to know at this point?
    Walton

  239. I want to add this: IF that guy in my computer is from the LDS Church – I think it would only be fair that the LDS Church stop charging people for records to their Ancestory.

    What a gold mine that is imo.

    AND..if that guy in my computer is from the LDS Church then I think I should be able to see some of the records/documents I’ve been asking about.

    Walton

  240. I can answer that Walton. First you will need a toothpick, gorilla glue, 2 limes, a roll of duct tape, and 2 lbs of miralax…………..oh and a monkey named Joe.

  241. PlygKid- I am out of limes.

    I think I like you a lot. 🙂 Brad Pitt or no Brad Pitt.

    Walton

  242. Usually I just google the name and ask for the IP address. I have a ton of search engines that I am linked too and backwards trace from the name. It isn’t hard, just can be time consuming and frustrating. Sometimes you can’t get a name, but you get the location. Try this and see if it works:

    http://www.nndb.com/people/950/000055785/

    What I track is the “ping” an IP address leaves behind. Another program is http://www.whois.sc/

    I can certainly try and trace for you. Let me know

    🙂

  243. Mix the Miralax with Gatorade, tastes better that way……

  244. Your out of limes but you have a monkey named Joe………..

  245. Thanks PW. But I don’t even know what to look for. I just know he’s there.

    And I am hoping he looks like a Texas Ranger Big Brother.

    Walton

  246. Walton,
    Back in the day Norton Internet Security used to have a feature that tracked the ip of people who enter your computer. The only downside is it makes you internet experience like trying to push a pencil through a pinhole.

  247. https://www.torproject.org/

    This site will allow you to become anonymous by bouncing you through different “clouds”. Think Wikileaks and 4chan (anonymous).

  248. I used to be more geeky with that kind of stuff but now im to the age where my buddy shows me his new iPod and I show him my iDon’tCare.

  249. Someone in your computer? Does he eat much? I hope you mean that you could tell someone was USING your computer???

    Maybe I don’t want to know….

  250. I had to make myself more geeky with all the internet stuff. It also helps that I have two kids who are web designers.

  251. Walton – I get it. Your concerns are one of the reasons I encrypt everything and use TOR personally and professionally.

  252. I hope no one goes rootin around my computer. They might break into my porn collection. If any hackers are reading this its NOT the folder labeled “notporn”.

  253. Walton, only the highest security-clearance sting operation can solve that problem. You’ll just have to coexist.

  254. Judge David Nuffer is coming up for confirmation by the Senate shortly. I just read that “there is nothing controversial about Nuffer,” his nomination simply hasn’t gotten to the floor yet.

    Nothing controversial? What about all those nice letters and articles we wrote to our delegates?

  255. Guess they forgot about all that 3C.

    Walton – What Native American are you talking about?

  256. I never heard that one either. Or the other 2. Maybe they mind wiped me. Am I in a dream. Is this like that movie inception? Wake up pk WAKE UP!!

  257. PlygKid, someone clearly sucked all the memories out of your brain by downloading your hypothalamus gland.

  258. kouldbe thanks a LOT for the headsup on TOR I will really look into it and see if that would work.

    For those that were asking about the incident with the Native American, it was real early into the YFZ thing. Doran got a call from the YFZ saying that some guy was trying to get thru the fence. Needed to talk to the President of the LDS Church I think he said. Some people said it was nothing. But I think it was something.

    He had a name that when I did a search on him that the search ended up with me looking into his tribes history. And water rights etc.

    I kept asking about him but never did get any answers that ended my curiosity about the whole thing. If I remember right the story was that Doran sent him on his way… end of story. There is never an end to the story unless you get both sides and then the guys story that watches the story imo.
    The story was published by Eldorado Success. After that I think Brooke and maybe Ben mentioned it.

    Few years later there is a Native American that shows up at the LDS Church. Wants to talk to the President/Prophet. He had something really really important to tell him about the YFZ. This was in the Trib and in Deseret News ( I think) ( And this isn’t the same guy that they just hauled off a month or so ago)

    The “couple” that called the FBI or got busted with something wanted to make a deal because he had something he wanted to warn the President about. It had something to do with the LDS/ FLDS etc. The guys with the Sunglasses took him away and that was that.

    They questioned him/them but I couldn’t find any more on the net about it.

    This story hit different newspapers but was linked up with Posse Comitatus (sp) and Little Shell Pembina Band. (the group that is or isn’t a group)

    Plygkid- Watch the Truman show. They didn’t mind wipe you- you just haven’t been there yet.

    Walton

  259. Yikes Walton! Those are scary bedtime stories.

  260. Third Cousin – yes they are. Telling them isn’t scary. It was all in the news.

    It’s what behind the stories that no one talks about that makes them scary.
    Walton

  261. FLDS leaders are unhappy with the corruption investigation, they want prosecutors removed. Read more in this article.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53335275-78/fire-account-counts-darger.html.csp

    IMO they want the prosecutors removed because they are actually doing their jobs.

  262. Bravo – It isn’t okay, Betty, especially when one meets questions regarding one’s integrity on this site insisting that they are completely legitimate. I’m disgusted. But I do hold out that we could be dealing with somebody misguided and not malicious.

  263. Plygkid I dunno if I’m the only one, but you always crack me up!

  264. Oh he cracks me up too! And I don’t do well but I try to hand it right back to him.

  265. Oh please, let’s drop thr PlygKid act and just call him Brad since he has outed himself.

  266. Hey PK

    Adopt any kids lately? This is the true test.

  267. Winston’s not having a good time
    http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Will+taxwomen+bring+down+polygamist/6060271/story.html

  268. His whole defense is bizarre to me. Even if they are/were a legit religion, What religion allows a minister to run a business under his own name and use the fact that he’s providing support for the parishioners under that business? That’s crazy talk. Goodwill Industries for instance is owned by a charitable corporation, not in the name of the CEO for him to dispose of as he sees fit. Since when is feeding your own children equal to running a charity? Want to take bets that those very children got food stamps or welfare from the Canadian government and he’s now using them as an excuse for not paying taxes on his income? Can’t have it both ways.

    I wish the US government and/or state goverments would take the same approach. It was the tax man who brought done Al Capone.

  269. Thanks for the link to the Uncle Wink article, hhg.

    Good read and there is a lot of information coming out of his tax trial.

  270. Also, when you run a business legitimately, and you pay someone a salary, you take out workman’s comp and SS and pay their taxes, etc. You don’t just hand them $45K a year in cash out of the profits and call it religion.

    I don’t think this will go well for him.

  271. Old Winston is in a heap of hurt. *snort*

  272. WOW

    Daphne nails another great artcle on Wink – that article is a must read!

  273. What I found interesting was a question to the effect that they are not actively seeking members…..

    Is that some criteria for a church – must be open to all to qualify – if so no wonder he squirms around the issue of religion vs. church and whether or not he is a prophet/minister

    A true church would be accepting all kinds of people to come and share in the profits, right?

  274. HHG – my experience is that churches are open to new members. (Share in the “profits ” or “prophet’s “?) 🙂

  275. I think it was to show that his “church” is just his family and perhaps a handful of old friends.

    Tithing in cash with no records. ha ha ha ha

    What does he call his Church? He actually croaked out he followed the “LDS” church – NOT the flds or any other church… and yet as we know he actually does NOT attend any LDS church, nor does he tithe to them, nor is he a member on their rolls.

    The only thing he claimed in this article was his “Priesthood” but P-hood of what? P Diddy hood?

    They have him in a box.

  276. Brad here. Do you have some kids that need adopted Stamp? If so mail them to po box 5600 thanks.

  277. oh Uncle Wink. Guess what I know about Uncle Wink……….absolutely nothing at all. Well I do know that his bible story cd set was pretty good. My favorite is his telling of the story of Esther. I truly do believe the bible is a hoax but the story was pretty good.

  278. he he he

    Postage would be cheaper if you picked them up at the house. I buy if you fly!

  279. Let me ask my Angie Pangie if thats ok lol.

  280. http://garyc.me/fun/bring.swf

    Stumbled across this……..I know what i’m doing all weekend now.

  281. Gosh..hated to hear about Deb Brown pleading guilty…

    Anyone know if she will serve prison time? and what on earth did she need to steal money for and what did she spend it on?

  282. Tribune article on the short creek public corruption charges against Jacob Barlow and David Darger:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53335275-78/fire-account-counts-darger.html.csp

  283. I wonder what Jacobs father former Mayor Dan Barlow thinks when reading a story like that.

  284. Oh and I wonder if the native american man that was referred to earlier was old Lou lol. Anyone remember him from the trib boards?

  285. I was hoping it was Roger Nevermissashot.

  286. How do you know Roger nevermissashot?

  287. Well,the FLDS is putting out a media blitz on the coming calamities that Warren the Weirdo has predicted.Maybe he should has consulted with Harold Camping before doing this.You have to admit that this is all very entertaining. Here’s the article,now excuse me while I get my fallout shelter up to date.
    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2012/jan/26/flds-starts-media-blitz/

  288. From all those mugshots, PlygKid. I took a liking to his surname and was wondering what kind of certification it takes down at the shooting range to get my name changed to that.

  289. Robert Warren is just playing the part with these ads i think. He wants to think of himself as Moses or the prophet Samuel. I can see the sequel to the BOM already.

    Thus veryily it came to pass that my servant Warren did cast my words unto the world that they might repent.

  290. Hahaha He inherited that name from his father………i cant remember his fathers name. Theres alot of native americans around here with odd names. I know a hasmanygoats as well.

  291. Plygkid aka Brad Pitt knows a man who is called hasmanygoats?

    lol

    Brad Pitts buddy George Clooney made a great film titled: The men who stare at goats. Based on a true story.

    Walton

  292. I saw that movie…….it was kinda lame. In fact that was 2 hours of my life I will never get back. George Clooney be damned!! even though he is a personal friend of brad…….errr mine.

  293. Conrad Lauritzen Pledger of Colorado City was booked and released from Purgatory yesterday. Is he in or out?

  294. Out

  295. Thanks.

  296. Flint Jeffery Williams and John Taylor Johnson are also possible exflds.

  297. Well Flint is probably second generation apostate. So he was probably never flds but his father was.

  298. I didn’t like men who stare at goats much, either. Sometimes in spite of an excellent cast, a movie just doesn’t work.

    But mostly I like Clooney.

  299. I don’t watch movies. They are wicked and they put the devil spirit in you. I just watch documentries like Sherlock Holms or The A team.

  300. Besides all the chuckles over PK… I mean Brad Pitt’s funnies, I just got my “hee haw” of the day when I ran across this oldish article… I mean parody. Looks it was written right after Jeffs’ trial ended.

    <a href="Warren Jeffs to Appeal Life Sentence with Warren Jeffs to Appeal Life Sentence with “Benjamin Button” Defense

  301. oops… that didn’t come out well. Here’s the link:
    http://blog.mysanantonio.com/texascockroach/2011/08/warren-jeffs-to-appeal-life-sentence-with-%e2%80%9cbenjamin-button%e2%80%9d-defense/

  302. Oh, that’s funny EJay.

  303. http://www.jailbase.com/en/arrested/nv-ccdc/2011-11-08/conrad-l-pledger-2011-11-08-01900586

  304. Not as funny if you haven’t seen the movie “The Curious Case of Benjamin Button” — starring Brad Pitt, btw.

  305. https://news.washeriff.net/wp-content/reports/booking/book.html

  306. PW, FWIW the email is registered in Sunnyvale b/c it’s a Yahoo! address and that is their corporate headquarters.

  307. True, but if you trace route the IP, it will tell you where else it is going. The polygamy be gone website has just changed its IP address when everyone started questioning the validity of the person(s) writing it and the legitimacy of the content. This particular person has also posted in several other Yahoo! chat sites that are religious and sexual in nature in 2009/2010.

  308. PW, and everyone else, thanks again for helping flush out the fake “Carrie”. Her story was IMO a sort of combination of several true stories relating to polygamy.

    The part about a mother fleeing with her child most likely came from Carolyn Jessop’s book “Escape”, the part about the Deseret Industries probably came from stories in the SLTrib & D-News about how that charity helped the down and out. The age of the fictional Carrie 25, the part about going to law school, wanting to help victims borrowed from the real life Elizabeth Smart. (The real Elizabeth Smart will be 25 later this year.)

    Don’t know what this person/persons scam was, perhaps a fake charity to take peoples money.
    In any case they had me fooled!

    Again THANKS to everyone who helped expose this fraud.

  309. A Texan, many of us seemed to recognize it right away, but I did not either. I was suspicious but didn’t see the now obvious signs. I’m glad we all have each other for perspective.

  310. And PW is turning out to be pretty handy.

  311. I wasn’t sure if she was real, but something about the story seemed superficial. I don’t have the experiences that many of you have. But I have the interest and desire to see justice. I just read that the Daily Mail pulled WSJ’s ad due to British public outcry.

    Glad to help out if I can with any internet searches. PW

  312. carrie had me fooled. Thanks to all who helped on “outing” her as a fraud.

  313. @globeandmail yanks ad by polygamist child abuser Warren S. Jeffs http://www.theglobeandmail.com/community/digital-lab/from-the-public-editor-readers-correct-to-question-print-ad/article2317675/ via @SylviaStead

  314. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=19032925

    Fundraiser for Holding out HELP was held in Sundance, Utah.

  315. Interesting POV from the English newspaper Globe and Mail.

    “Mr. Jeffs, as you may know, is a polygamist sect leader in the United States who was convicted last year of sexually assaulting two children”

    So on that basis they arent taking money from him, – – – – he is a convicted child molester.

    I say BRAVO, Globe and Mail!

  316. If only the papers in this country would refuse the money. It would be interesting to see if WSJ and his minions would then put up bill boards and bus benches!!

  317. The latest on Colonia LeBaron taking up arms in Mexico.
    http://www.npr.org/2012/01/28/145996427/mexican-community-takes-taboo-stance-on-guns

  318. That article about the Lebaron Colonia cracked me up.There were more LeBaron’s killed by other LeBaron’s than were ever killed other Mexicans.They had NO problem when it came to shooting their own.

  319. So totally true Robert. Ervil LeBaron had no problem telling his kids to off one another and the mothers or those who he thought had “wronged” him.

  320. http://hismin.tripod.com/lebaron.html

  321. http://www.valleymorningstar.com/news/estephania-30589-one-ervil.html

  322. http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F3/41/41.F3d.935.93-2474.93-2411.html

  323. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/66385/HAVE-LEBARON-CHILDREN-FLED-TO-MEXICO.html

  324. Thanks for those links… I was shocked at the Deseret News article… It had much more detail of some of the Lebaron’s crimes than I have read before.

    The HIS ministry write up is an oldie for me but a must read if someone hasnt yet. I read it about every few months and post the link often in various places, its just amazing.

    The thing about it that gets me, is its written from Federal prison and William sounds repentent – something we havent yet seen with from any FLDS member currently in prison.

    That said, I dont think William details all his crimes. They were murdering people like it was going out of style.

    Also, Rulon Allred, in the DN article, is listed as a “Murray Naturopath” and NOT the “Prophet of the AUB”.

    Also as previously noted, the ” Ervil died of a heart attack in prison” story is not believed by quite a few people.

    But then there are a lot of things not known about this story. Like people who got disappeared… leaving only blood and teeth fragments… hmmm Doesnt sound too friendly…

  325. Is William still alive and in prison? The articles are interesting and did have a lot of detail that doesn’t seem to be picked up in recent stories.

  326. I dont know his status but I would presume he is alive, there isnt any record of anything different.

  327. IF Ervil wasn’t dead in real life, he is dead on paper. He is dead and gone, Can’t reach in and can’t reach out.

    He is dead. Gone. No more. And besides that he is on the waiting list at the LDS. can’t be any more dead than that.
    The roots leading from that tree ….are just that. Roots leading from that tree.

    Every book that has been written about any and all this stuff has NEVER had the words THE END written on the last page. I wish someone could/would write a book with those words in it. I wish that we could say we’ve seen THE END to all this stuff.

    But we haven’t.

    Walton

  328. There will be “End” in your lifetime, walton. Perhaps not in your children’s and grandchildtren’s lifetimes. Live with it !

  329. William Heber LeBaron is serving a life sentence in federal prison, as are his sister Patricia LeBaron and step-brother Douglas Barlow for their roles in the 1988 4 O’Clock murders.

    In 1997, their brother Aaron LeBaron received a 45 year sentence for his part.

  330. And don’t forget Tarsa LeBaron was sentenced to only three years in Houston for her role.

  331. The LeBarons living in current Colonia LeBaron mostly are not those who went with Ervil or Ross Wesley. They are mostly descendants of Verlan and Joel and Alma and Floren and their many wives.

  332. I had a long conversation years ago with Paul LeBaron.Don’t ever tell him to quit lookiing over his shoulder.This cult can go to the darkside REAL fast. You will never know when or where until it’s too late. As long as this cult exist,there is real potential for dangerous activity.Only a fool would think that things have stopped

  333. Tarsa LeBaron’s guilty plea:

    http://www.chron.com/life/houston-belief/article/Cult-leader-s-daughter-s-guilty-plea-draws-bloody-2077416.php

    and sentencing:

    http://www.justice.gov/usao/txs/1News/Releases/2011%20September/110908%20Lebaron_print.htm

  334. I agree, Robert. Still very scary.

  335. There will be “End” in your lifetime, walton. Perhaps not in your children’s and grandchildtren’s lifetimes. Live with it !

    Anonymous said this on January 29, 2012 at 11:20 AM

    And what kind of mother/grandmother/friend would I be if I settled for.. “learn to live with it” attitude. I want a better life for my kids/ grandkids and others.

    We all deserve better including the runners from that tree.

    Walton

  336. When I mentioned the “runners” from that tree – I don’t mean drug runners, I don’t mean gun runners, I mean runners/roots tree stems. Offspring, children, grandchildren.

    People should be afraid of what is involved. But they don’t have to fear “Ervil”. There is a new face in town, new faces to the story. Those are the faces we should be seeing. But the LeBarons are only part of the story.

    Walton

  337. A story about Kristen Whitmore and a man named Jonathn Leo LeBaron

    http://keysnews.com/node/11709

    This was a big story that got swept from side to side and then some. There is lots more on the net about this.

    Tarsa will have spent her time in jail as required. I haven’t read anything anywhere that would lead me to believe that she is one we should fear.

    Walton

  338. Has anyone here read John Llewellyn’s book “Polygamy Under Attack”? Opinions please before I download it to my Kindle. Thanks 🙂

  339. Whoa, just when I thought it couldnt get weirder.

    DP case on LeBaron is still in limbo as southern florida is rather slow on the move with these sort of things.

    http://keysnews.com/node/21340

  340. I have never heard of “Polygamy under attack” but thats kinda funny, like a book titled “Meth recipes under attack”..

    WTH!?

  341. More polygamy dysfunction in Canada – this time the husband kills his first wife and three daughters.

    Just blows my mind. Funny pics of the second wife and the son.

    —————-

    “KINGSTON, Ont. — After Canada’s first mass-honour-killings trial, three members of a Montreal family have all been found guilty of first-degree murder in the drowning deaths of four other family members — including three teenage sisters.

    A jury on Sunday handed down its guilty verdicts for Mohammad Shafia and Tooba Mohammad Yahya, as well as their 21-year-old son, Hamed.

    They had been charged with murder after the bodies of three Shafia sisters — Zainab, 19, Sahar, 17, and 13-year-old Geeti — were discovered in a submerged vehicle in a canal near Kingston, in June 2009.

    Also in the vehicle was Rona Amir Mohammad, the 52-year-old first wife of Shafia, whom he married in his native Afghanistan before the polygamous family moved to Canada in 2007 and settled in Montreal.”

    Read more:

    http://www.canada.com/news/canada-in-afghanistan/Jury+finds+Shafia+family+guilty+honour+killings+trial/6069346/story.html#ixzz1ksoZbWgv

  342. I haven’t read it PK but I plan to – download away. I think Llewellyn is respected.

  343. I don’t think I knew the story Jonathon Leo LeBaron story. That’s one of Joel’s children.

  344. Whoever’s kid he is, he is evil.

  345. PW,
    “Polygamy under Attack” is excellent, as is “Polygamy’s Rape of Rachael Strong.”

  346. http://www.mormoncurtain.com/topic_polygamy_section3.html

  347. BIB -Thanks!!

  348. Another one bites the dust;

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53400104-78/mitchell-shirl-died-son.html.csp

    To bad it wasn’t the son, but it’s only a matter of time before Brian David Mitchell & Warren Jeffs join him in hell.

  349. PW,
    “Polygamy under Attack” is excellent, as is “Polygamy’s Rape of Rachael Strong.”

    Born in Brooklyn said this on January 29, 2012 at 7:37 PM

    The book “Polygamy Under Attack” is available through Amazon, but they don’t have a kindle version yet.

    http://www.amazon.com/Polygamy-Under-Attack-Green-Mitchell/dp/188810676X

    Book was written around 2004, so it doesn’t cover the FLDS, Warren Jeffs and the YFZ affair.

  350. I think it’s bad spiritual practice to hope for or pray for anyone’s death.

    We should pray that they see the error of their ways and live to remake their lives in love. You know, that turn the other cheek thing, buddhist compassion kind of thing.

  351. I was looking for a story about one of the LeBaron kids setting off a pipe bomb in Utah and found this in my travels. I’ll keep looking for more info on that pipe bomb story.

    This was in 1998 :
    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1989-02-26/news/8903080573_1_sect-slaying-houston-police

    Members of a polygamist religious sect who were detained last week in Chicago on immigration and criminal charges will be questioned about the slayings of five former sect members in Utah and Texas, authorities said Friday.

    Four adults were charged Tuesday by the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service with conspiracy to transport five juveniles, all illegal immigrants, from Mexico. U.S. Magistrate Elaine Bucklo on Friday ordered the juveniles held as material witnesses for a federal grand jury in Salt Lake City.


    Does anyone know off hand was anyone charged with transporting kids?
    Walton

  352. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-07-24/news/8801170089_1_mormon-scripture-murders-polygamy

  353. They were charged according to the article you cited, Walton.

    I don’t know if those charges were ever fully adjudicated.

    Two of the four adults arrested in Chicago were subsequently charged and tried for their roles in the Texas murders.

    One is serving a federal life sentence and the other a 45 year federal sentence.

    http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl/1993_1131779/lebaron-sect-members-receive-federal-life-terms-fo.html

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/566237/LeBaron-gets-45-year-sentence.html

  354. I still occasionally run across a few detectives,(mostly retired),that worked on the LeBaron slaughter here in Houston.They all say that it was so horrific that they never will forget it. They absolutely thought NOTHING of slaughtering Duane’s nine year old daughter.Why would anyone ever trust a group capable of doing such a horrible deed ? EVER !

  355. Latest on David Darger and Jacob Barlow.
    http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2012/01/30/news/local/doc4f26538d4a9e3889210500.txt

  356. Waller says Wendell Loy Nielsen trial to be held in Midland County. One of my favorite Texas counties. No firm date.

  357. Waller’s story:

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2012/jan/30/flds-bigamy-trial-moved-to-midland/

  358. I truly do wish Wendell the best. He has only ever treated me with the utmost respect despite my reputation.

  359. HAW! He didnt know who you were.

    As long as you fetched nails and drove them, all was good, right?

  360. Wendell must be a pretty smart guy. He made Western Precision machine. (now New Era) Mfg) into a great outfit. He does not seem as radical and dogmatic as warren.

  361. Wendell is in it up to his eyeballs.

  362. At least he used to be before he got kicked off the ranch and lost his position as presidente.

  363. Wendell is in it up to his eyeballs. He was the stepfather of one of the girls in the last triple play of underage marriages, two 15 year olds and a 12 year old. So far all the male participants are in jail. Wendell is the lone holdout.

  364. It may be called New Era now but when I was there 2 month ago, the big ole sign out front said Western Precision. There was a lot of activity there and a lot of men, women, and children running around around 4pm.

  365. I’m guessing New Era is Warren’s main squeeze. John Wayman is probably tithing most of the $$$$ required to cover all those ads and amphitheater construction costs.

  366. Yes, I suspect that New Era/Western Precision is still the flds cash cow. Their website is interesting.

    http://www.neweramfg.com/index.php

    from their website:

    “NewEra Manufacturing Inc. is a Contract Manufacturing Facility supplying precision machined components and assemblies for the aerospace, military, medical, recreational, and other commercial entities. We have a very diverse customer base located throughout the United States, Mexico, and Canada. NewEra promotes the manufacturing of products that improve and enhance the quality of life.”

  367. 3C, what you saw was the old building. I was told they moved the business to Nevada.

  368. I can sort of understand having good feelings about someone you know as a youngster, no matter what other harm they may have done. One of my favorite uncles was an alcoholic and wife abuser, but I never saw that, I just saw someone who taught me how to go crabbing and gig frogs. That kind of love is part of the way that cults work, your feelings are tangled up with the community like anyone else and so you go along with a behavior pattern you may not like or maybe are not even aware of.

  369. After doing a little detective work, I have come to the conclusion that Merril and Wendell were never exed, that those in charge just wanted everyone to think they were. Kinda makes you go hmmmmmmmm, doesn’t it.

    Now the $1,000,000 question is WHAT ABOUT WILLIE? Is he just faking it too?

  370. Also if you accept certain behaviors as normal or good, like having so many wives, bleeding the beast, having kids work for low wages in your business, then even as an adult you might see someone who does those things as being good. All people are complicated, with good and bad. Some folks like Merrill and Warren I see as evil, others I see as petty thugs (Raymond) and then others I see as just being caught up in a corrupt system.

  371. Here’s more on Wendell Nielsen from the SLTrib, article express opinion that Nielsen has not been allowed back in FLDS, but that Merril Jessop had been allowed back in.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/53407328-191/wendell-trial-midland-angelo.html.csp

  372. Lindsay hasn’t been in the courtroom during Wendell’s hearings. The sons that accompany him are definitely still FLDS and loyal Warrenites.

  373. PT

    Interesting.

    Knowing how they act with apostates, I would reckon that some of this exing – un – exing nonsense is just a smokescreen.

    ( where are my wives? wahhhh!) ha ha ha

    And since Warren changes the rules and regulations on a whim and a whisper, they just chug along pretending they are priesthoodlum worthy.

    As if Warrens thoughts on the matter actually meant anything any longer…

  374. It is so very interesting for me to read this blog. I talk to people I know out there and they tell me kind of what’s going on. Months later its a topic here.

  375. We were discussing the mass exings last year when they happened.

    Yeah, they are playing shell games with who is in and who is out and some of that is hard to follow when you have a Warren Jeffs making kneejerk decisions..

    So PK what is your take on the Amphitheater? What do you hear its going to be?

    What kind of roof do they plan, and why are there a hundred romex leads?

  376. I have no idea about the Aphitheater. Like i said on trib plygs like singing their hyms so Im guessing that has something to do with it.

    Im guessing no roof. The picture is a far shot but being an Engineer I see no roof connections or internal supports. THe keyosk things in front will most likely have a roof. Either that or they havn’t thought that far ahead.

    I have no idea about the romex leads. I did stumble on to one of your older post while looking for a picture of the wires.
    ——————————————————————————————

    On the ranch pics – the wires coming out of the walls on the semi circle –

    Could be electrical for some sort of retractable roof, though it looks like cat 5 internet line, and not the normal white or yellow romex usually used for electrical wiring. Maybe they got a discount because it was blue>? ha ha

    Another observation, it looks like the new house is waaayy overbuilt IRT the trusses. See how closely spaced they are? This would indicate a heavy snow load, they may have been using the specs for building in CO or SD – just to be safe, you know. It could snow in southern Texas like crazy in the end days I suppose.

    Also another Q is the trusses – do they have a truss plant, or buy them off the shelf somewhere? They arent terribly difficult to build, but probably one of the more challenging parts of the building. You can see one laying on the ground, kind of like they missed count and made an extra? ha ha

    Again better safe than sorry!

    Oi, another funny. Did I see a mini guard shack on a little trailer? Is that for the children to play “guard” in at various places? Some odd crap going on down there – and yes not a toy or bike to be seen.

    Some Christmas.

    Stamp said this on December 18, 2011 at 11:06 AM
    ——————————————————————————————

    Trusses are spaced like that because they complex was engineered by Joe Barlow III. We call him Joe Cubed. Hes very famous for an impressive amount of overkill.

    Yes they have 2 truss plants. One in the crick and one that moves around alot. I think Heber Broadbent owns Truss Design in colorado city and Guy and David Alred own another one that keeps moving. I would be willing to bet that Guys plant built the trusses.

    I will keep looking for pictures of wires.

  377. OK found pictures of wires…………….I coud be wrong but I dont think they are using that cat-5 for its intended purpose. Its not an insluated wire and should never be used for power applications and I cant imagine them putting that many computers on the wall lol.

    After looking at it closer I see tons of inbeds. I think. I can’t realy make out what exactly they are. They might be a means of welding a beam system to.

  378. Fishbowl + Laser lights = Neon Frogs

    Any cameras seen is to monitor the activity of such said frogs. ( and safety issues)

    the shape is designed so that the ship can land safely and….rest upon the cement walls so that those entering and leaving the ship can do so at a safe height.

    j/k


    Question: Does anyone know if there is another Religion that has had so many self proclaimed “prophets”?

    And is there another “religion” besides the LDS Church that has had this much confusion being tied in with another off shoot?
    Walton

  379. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/01/30/uk-mormonchurch-idUKTRE80T1CP20120130

  380. I was under the impression every religion had offshoots. It only make sense that they would. I’ve met many a people with many a religion. Some crazy simularities and some vast differences.

    I’m not sure about the prophet thing. Isn’t that sort of thing reserved for cults?

  381. Thanks anon. for the link. Lots of info that makes a persons mind wander about what if?

    The Church must have some BIG financi@l backing. imo

    Walton
    PlygKid- Is there another Church out there that requires (asks) those inside to ignore parts of the rule book so that one section be followed? Example:

    Thou shall not comit adultry – but if you do, call her your spiritual wife and then it won’t be.
    Thou shall not lie- unless you are lying to cover up the above

    Is there another Church out there that does that?

    Seriously – I don’t know.

  382. The kid with the pipebomb was Aaron Benjamin LeBaron. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=78020 and that was in 2005

    Oddly enough I can’t find the follow up to that story.

    Walton

  383. Ever since I started posting agan I been going through old emails. Lots of email. I think the total was around 800 emails. Hell of a story there in my inbox. Lots of nice word and some not so nice lol. I think theres 10 good recipes in there. Theres even info in there on the best way to train a dog lol.

    But it did occur to me. My name should have been Offtopic. lol

  384. Recipes? Post some. I’m always looking for something new and interesting.

  385. Off topic

    Well seeing this is just a “discussion thread” its hard to do that here.

    Thanks for the input.

  386. Today is the day U.E.P Trust under Bruce Wisan looks for sheeple who haven’t paid their rent/taxes for years on their properties , he will start in Hildale first , 2 large parcels , under Utah law occupants have a 3-7 day notice to vacate premises after being notified of evictions , Arizona has a 3 week notice to vacate premises , so I can see going with Utah parcels first ,easier to get renters to vacate premises , now we’ll have to wait & see if the results happen as expected , “you can’t fix stupid” lol ..other-Anon

  387. It will be also interesting to see if the [should be decertified] local LE show up and try to thwart the Trust people.

  388. how funny, I just came on to note the same – last day to pay taxes/rent or find another place or get beamed up. Wisan may wait another week in case it is “in the mail” with today’s postal date.

  389. IMO it appears that Walton hasn’t studied the Baptist Church, if you want a church with splits & offshoots the Baptists have many more than the Mormons. There’s Southern Baptists, Freewill Baptists, Missionary Baptists, Hardshell Baptists the list goes on.

    Here’s a list of them, not all them IMO.

    http://www.allaboutbaptists.com/groups.html

    Mormonism has it’s splits & offshoots, but can’t hold a candle compared to the Baptists. Growing up even witnessed Baptist churches having a split over the issue of the color of seat cushions for the pews!

  390. Wonder if wisan needs help delivering them. Maybe I can set up like an eviction notice candygram.

  391. PlygKid – If I stepped on any toes by calling the LeBaron kid – the kid, it was because he was a kid. He was only 19.

    LeBarons were brought up- I think because “Carrie” mentioned family members stocking up on guns and stuff.

    —–

    On topic/off topic – what is the topic?

    The structures at YFZ – all that can be said about that is it is anyones guess.

    Bruce kicking people out? How much rumor can a person talk about and then talk about some more before it gets another headline and then we talk about it some more? Didn’t Lindsay report earlier that they would be hearing this case in Colorado?

    How about the on again and off again relationship of those who have been kicked out but are back in and then kicked out and now back in again. We can go two days about something no one is confirming or denying.

    How about those kids? Let’s talk about those kids that were rescued from the Ranch but no one has seen. But then again it’s anyones guess.

    How about the court case in Canada. The one that Winston is taking part in but apparenty a deal was said and done and no charges will be brought against him.

    Walton

  392. As for the stocking up on guns. I will believe that when I see it. The general opinion of guns by the flds from what I remember was pretty negative. We were told to get rid of all our guns. In an effort to be a “good boy” i parted with some prety nice pieces.

    As for the on again off again………..I can only tell you what I hear through the grapevine. I can’t really call it fact. In fact I don’t say anything about it because the last thing I want to be is a stupid cricker shooting off his mouth.

    Wich kids rescued from the ranch are you refering to? I’m not aware of that one.

    I never knew Uncle Wink. Don’t know anything about him. All i got was the bible stories cds and after he was outed those were confinscated. I don’t even know how his organization was ran. I know alot of people I went to school with ran up to him after he got the boot. I know some of my friends has specific girls in mind and Wink was willing to marry them. I’m guessing that had something to do with why he got kicked out.

  393. http://www.vancouversun.com/Winston+Blackmore+federal+case+hinges+church+issue/6079923/story.html

  394. Walton the topic today is the possible eviction of some of the sheeple from the creek they have been given a 30-day notice to make payment arrangements or face vacating premises , so they have NO EXCUSE for not paying their rent/taxes , they were given ample warning this day would come ….other-Anon

  395. I’m afraid to list things that I think are off topic for fear you guys would start talking about them just to see what happened. LOL.

    But generally, if everyone is happy, then it’s fine. Recipes are fine. The current Republican debates, probably a bad idea, cause it will start fights quicker than almost anything. And, also, it’s sometihng that you really could talk about on hundreds of other blogs, so why come here?

  396. That gives me an idea

    PK FOR PRESIDENT!!!

    ok now lets be honest…….yall are going to vote for me right?

  397. I don’t want Isaac Wylers family to be kicked out.
    I don’t want Ruths kids to be kicked out.
    I don’t want Third Cousins cousins out on the street.
    I don’t want to see Ben Bistlines family see hard times.
    or anyone else that I’ve grown to care about

    I would like to see people follow the laws.
    I would like to see equal treatment to all those that break the law.
    I want child molesters and pedophiles in Sherrif Joes tent city.

    But most of all I want to see the kids grow up with out the Shadow.

    And I wish the man behind the curtain would step out from behind and tell the truth.
    Walton

  398. PK – (Brad),

    If you promise to have Angie as First Lady, then I will vote for you!!

  399. Its all part of the master plan. If i put a picture of her in her undies next to my name on the ballot……..I at least get every man’s vote. To get the women to vote I will make it my polocy to make it ileagal for men to leave the toilet seat up. ……………im so going to have to start packing to move to dc

  400. Finally…. someone to vote for with a decent agenda!

  401. Just think… Brad’s proposed policy change will mean lots of new job openings in all the police departments in the country! And construction jobs to build more county jails. There will be a lot of complaints and arrests and big fines before guys will figure out how to “get with the program.” Oh and those fines will boost the local economy too. Hmmmm?

  402. I think I’d rather vote for PK than anyone else who might be running.

    OOOOPS! Broke my own rule!

  403. From Slate : http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/01/the_problem_with_polygamy.html

  404. I want to vote for Brad too. What do I need to do to get him on the ballot here in Texas? Well, that is if we ever get to even have a primary given all the lawsuits going on about redistricting.

    That toilet seat proposal is something I can really get behind and campaign for. Do you need any help packing?

  405. Oh yeah, I forgot to comment on the evictions. I think that anyone who hasn’t paid their taxes deserves to have their butts kicked to the curb. I’d love for them to try that out here in the real world.

    Hey Brad, when you’re running things can you please do away with taxes for all us peons. Let Mitt pay them all.

  406. BiB – good article. those folks in Canada did a LOT of work and imo their findings should be enough proof to make a change. All the red flags have been shown imo.
    Those in charge need to plant their feet and make a decision and follow thru.

    Walton

  407. http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Religious+beliefs+keep+money+flowing+into+church+company/6083417/story.html

    Looks like Ken Oler is no longer a Warrenite.

  408. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/53416323-191/property-taxes-wisan-deadline.html.csp

    FLDS leaders loyal to Warren Jeffs responded to notices seeking property taxes with a two-sentence letter signed by John Barlow. It says they’ve set up a fund to pay the taxes, but plan to give them directly to the counties. So far, though, Wisan said he’s not gotten word of any new payments.

    – Wisan told me he’s planning to begin eviction proceedings against four parcels, which contain 28 homes — but that process takes several weeks and he’s hoping the property taxes get paid before anyone is evicted

  409. Welcome to a new month.

    Sorry PT. MORE TAX FOR YOU!

    These multiple high dollar homes and fancy cars for senators and goverment officials are not going to pay for themselves. Plus daddy needs a porche………..just sayin.

    In a wierd sick twisted way I hope they dont pay their taxes and get evicted…..at least a few of them. I just want to see these plyg law enforcment people have to chose.

  410. The old, we’re not going to pay you, we’re going to pay the county…only we haven’t….ploy. Well, if that gets the job done, whatever.

    I agree with you, Overlord. I’d like to see that play out, too.

  411. OO

    (that has a nice ring to it)

    I tend to think the local keystoners wont be involved in the evictions, likely the county marshalls office.

    Anyway the time on the hourglass is running, and its not on Warren’s schedule, he wants the world to end before the taxes are due.

    Dang he always hates it when that happens!

  412. These guys are easy to figureout

    Blind Faith over intelligence. Its kind of sad and funny at the same time. In thier mind they have the big invisible man upstairs holding the god stick ready to punish anyone who dares mess with his chosen people. So alot of them are thinking…….go ahead and try it.

    When nothing happens its because they were not rightous enough. Then later when they rationalize they come to the conclusion the whole thing is just a big test. The whole cult is a very clever mind game perfect over hundreds of years.

  413. amazing how it never occurs to them that God just simply said no.

  414. Good analysis, OO. (I like it, too)

  415. http://www.buildzoom.com/contractor/aaron-benjamin-lebaron

  416. http://www.hellonearthblog.com/2011/08/lebarons.html

    Walton –

    The above link states that a Benjamin LeBaron was tortured and killed in 2009. Could this be Aaron?

    PW

  417. http://www.nowpublic.com/world/benjamin-lebaron-kidnapped-and-killed-chihuahua

  418. The Church Of The Lamb Of God (24+) Led by neo-polygamist Fundamentalist Mormon patriarch Ervil LeBaron, this tribe of killers (many of them his wives and children) murdered at least 20 people — mostly rival polygamists and other fringe Mormons — over a 20-year period. LeBaron himself died in prison in 1981, but the killings were continued by his followers for years after his death.

    Aaron LeBaron became the sect’s high priest after his father’s death. Like father like son; Aaron soon got into trouble with the law. In June 1988, as a “blood atonement” ceremony for leaving the cult, Mark Chynoweth and his brother Duane Chynoweth were shot to death in Houston, and Edward Marston was killed simultaneously in Dallas. A young girl was also murdered for witnessing one of the slayings. According to Ervil’s Lamb of God 510-page tome, anyone leaving the cult had to be killed before believers could inherit God’s kingdom on Earth.

    In 1996 Aaron was arrested near the cult’s colony in northern Mexico. A year later, on March 1997, he was convicted by a Houston court of directing the 1988 slayings of the three sect defectors and the girl. The jury also found him guilty of conspiracy to commit murder for hire, conspiracy to obstruct religious beliefs, racketeering conspiracy and racketeering. However, the murder-for-hire conviction was overturned.

    On June 13, 1997, Aaron was sentenced to 45 years in prison for the killings and the racketeering charges. LeBaron was also ordered to pay $134,000 in restitution to help pay for the victims’ funerals. All in all it seems to us that Aaron got away with a light sentence for orchestrating four deaths. As Assistant U.S. Attorney Mike Shelby said after the sentencing, “His father created a monster called the Church of the Lamb of God, but Aaron LeBaron gave that monster direction.”

    In a rambling statement in court, LeBaron said he wanted to get a degree in journalism while in jail and tell the public how to prevent crime. Three other cult members are already serving life sentences for their roles in the slayings. Authorities are still seeking LeBaron’s half-sister, Tarsa LeBaron, who is believed to be hiding in Mexico or Belgium.

    Here at the archives we have recieved the following e-mail from Aaron’s younger sister, Jessica leBaron:

    Hey,

    I am a survivor of the “LeBaron Cult”.

    The thing was a nightmare, that both Aaron LeBaron and I were born into. Just like any other children we believed and tried to do what we were taught. It was not fun. Perhaps we are not good folks, but when all the bad things happened we had never been to school, were isolated on a ranch and have a family history of mental illness (treatable with medication) and other factors that contributed to extreme fanaticism.

    As a little child I believed all the stuff the “church” did was right. We are not evil, even though what we did is really bad.

    I know that you all make your money with this sensationalism and rant about evil and all, but I just thought I’d let you know that (though we didn’t act like it for a while there) we are human beings.

    Hey, did your ancestors keep slaves? Did your folks believe that Black folks are inferior? Where were you when lynching and mob violence and discrimination were going on in this country?

    A lot of folks don’t have a choice of whether or not to discriminate,when they are little, but can grow up to change. We have grown up, just as many of the racists in this country have. Our bad ideas came about kind of like racism in this country did. It is not excused. We are sorry. Making all this adieu about evil?-well ask yourself.

    I don’t think you are making the world a better place by writing this stuff. It is not accurate. As a cult member I didn’t have qualms about what I was doing but decided to do it anyway. Do you have qualms about writing this stuff but do it anyway? As a cult member my conscience was clear. After I found out that what we did was wrong, well that was a different story. That was the hardest thing I ever had to do; realize what kind of person I’d become. It really sucked! It was worth it though.

    When he is not forced to lead a stupid church Aaron LeBaron rocks. I love him for helping us get out of the cult, for doubting it first, for opening his mind to the possibility of mental illness and seeing a doctor and tacking medication for manic depression. I love him for being brave enough to admit to me long before the cops got him that what we had done was wrong, when I was so shocked that it was wrong that I would not believe him. I admire him for getting rid of all my dads literature and replacing it with six copies of The New international Version of the Bible and suggesting that we read the New Testament.

    Recognizing that what you did is wrong is one of the hardest things that a human being can do. Yet, he went further and discovered that everything we had believed was b.s. as well. Twenty four is a young age to discover such difficult truths.

    Our deeds had been done before this and of course people were mad and prosecuted him. Society got revenge. You all got something to write about. But, the truth is a different story.

    If you are black madam or sir, what do you think about the white folks who are sorry that their folks were so ignorant and prejudiced, and got over it? Do you think that those folks merit compassion? I think that my brother and I merit compassion.

    Your LeBaron Cult story gives me a stomach ache so I wrote this instead of tacking pain medication.

    that’s me,
    Jessica LeBaron

    http://www.mayhem.net/Crime/cults1.html

  419. http://www.rickross.com/groups/polygamy.html

  420. Who recieved the email from Jessica LeBaron?
    I’m just curious to whom is she refering to when she said

    I don’t think you are making the world a better place by writing this stuff.

  421. If she is talking about you guys well….i sorry but I totally have jump up on that bandwagon….lol

    And why doesnt mom post. I almost have forgotten where im going when I die. Don’t make me call my actual mother to remind me.

  422. http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=jessica+lebaron&sp-a=00052504-sp00000000

    If I read the site correctly, Jessica sent an email to the above website, aka Killer Cults, Mayhem.org.

    PW

  423. http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=jessica+lebaron&sp-a=00052504-sp00000000

  424. PW, that Benjamin Franklin LeBaron was the son of the “prophet” Joel Franklin LeBaron and Ramona Ray. He and his brother-in-law Jose Luis Widmar were murdered by drug thugs after they led a protest to Mexico City against the drug violence following the kidnapping and release of his younger brother.

    Just so everyone knows, that had absolutely nothing to do with any Ervilites.

  425. Jessica makes some good points. Many of those children were practically feral and believed what they were taught. “Jessica” is a nickname (something she was always called) rather than her real name. She is a full sister to Aaron.

  426. A poignant letter from “Jessica” LeBaron. Yes, she does make good points.

    Especially:

    “As a cult member my conscience was clear. After I found out that what we did was wrong, well that was a different story. That was the hardest thing I ever had to do; realize what kind of person I’d become. It really sucked!
    ..
    “Recognizing that what you did is wrong is one of the hardest things that a human being can do.”

    Makes me think of what’s in store for so many cult members… any cult.
    Education and socialization is key.

  427. wow.
    Do I feel bad about posting stories? no
    People need to know how deep this goes. And people need to understand that the evil wasn’t just in the face of Ervil but in his teachings. Ervil is dead. He can’t hurt anyone any more.

    I am not sure what she meant when she said that “society got revenge”. Personally I find it hard to find “compassion” for someone that thinks that stopping someone from hurting another is “revenge”.

    Compassion can not be shared unless the story is told Jessica. And from what I could see with the 3 paragraphs in the ksl link the whole story wasn’t told.

    Making the world a better place? I suppose things could be shoved under the door/kept quiet/ never talked about and everyone can continue to fear a dead man. They can continue to use this stronghold as a way of intimidation to silence people…..Or they can walk around and keep their eyes and ears open and be made aware of the new “evils” and nip it in the bud.

    I had seen a link concerning the electrical contractor. I didn’t post it for 2 reasons 1. I didn’t know if it was the same guy 2. If the man is out and about that means he didn’t have a long jail sentence if any.

    So it seems to me that it is Miss Jessica that appears to have the whoa is me and my life chip on her shoulder and just doesn’t get it.

    I don’t feel bad about bringing an awareness to issues that need to be shared. Can’t solve the issue if people are unaware.

    There is a whole wide world of people living inside their own “private hells” and this board just happens to touch base with some of them. And your family and the teachings are part of it. It is what it is.

    I don’t feel bad for sharing the story. I am sickened by the fact that Religion has been made an excuse to carry on the crimes of people who do bad things. And I am also disgusted that those in position continue to allow it all to go on and try to whitewash the BS.

    Jessica if you want to stay behind that wall and feel sorry for yourself you go ahead. If you want to climb over that wall and help protect others from facing what you and your family had/has gone thru then speak up.

    Me? I climb that wall everyday. Awareness is the key.
    Walton

  428. Walton, I agree the stories have to be examined in the light of day so these things don’t get repeated.

    Jessica did not post that here, it was a repost from a crime blog and I don’t even think it’s recent.

    No excuse, but the Lebarons are afflicted by some kind of cross-gene vortex of mental illness that I have wondered if it might even be unprecedented. In just that nuclear family at least 4 siblings went hopelessly insane and many of the grandchildren got it as well. There have been many suicides. I have seen posts made by other family members that are similar to Jessica’s. I do feel for them. But crime is crime.

    Aaron was sentenced to 45 years federal in 1997. He’s not out. He’s at FCI Three Rivers in Texas. Last I knew there are still some LeBarons in the short creek community, but I don’t think I know who they descend from.

  429. http://www.refugeesunleashed.net/about14416-0-asc-49.html

  430. I have no recolection of ever meeting a Lebaron to my recolection. But I don’t know everyones maiden name lol.

    Easy there walton. whoa! heel!

    Its just another ex cult blowhard. Like me 😀

    The difference is I make blowhards look good.

  431. http://www.mywesttexas.com/top_stories/article_d4c3ef5a-6bf2-553e-8cd3-526eb2b2f5f9.html

    Article about Wendell’s trial

  432. Has any one ever completed a family tree/genealogy (in depth) on a polygamous family, i.e., Jeffs, LeBaron, Kingston, etc.? It would be interesting to see how all the families are connected all the way back to Joseph Smith. That would be a HUGE undertaking……..!?

  433. http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/bustupinbountiful/timeline.html#

  434. http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/bustupinbountiful/familytree.pdf

  435. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705348569/Elizabeth-Smart-kidnapper-shares-LeBaron-traits-expert-says.html

  436. http://congressmantomtancredo.com/category/mexcan-extortion/

  437. My post is a classic example of what happens when a person doesn’t slow down while reading. I thought Jessica sent the e-mail to someone recently and they brought it here because I brought up the kid with the pipe Bomb. His name was/is Aaron Benjamin LeBaron. The story is on the ksl link posted above.

    From what I know there are at least 2 if not more people that had the same name. The one I am talking about was 19 in 2009?? and from Utah.

    I know that there was a LeBaron that had doors? involved with the missing book story. You can check the papers that Elaine Taylor had filled out with the police.

    Walton

  438. I’m a speed reader. I was born with it and I’ve taken courses in it, I read this thread in about two minutes. BTW, Warren Jeffs, Lyle Jeffs, David Darger, those crazy-ass Lebarons and the FLDS hardcore are fricking crazy.

  439. Well ole Wendell has his trial date set to 21 March 2012, IMO if he thinks he’s going to have an easy time, he will be in for a big surprise when runs into that Midland jury.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2012/feb/01/nielsen-trial-set-to-begin-march-21/

    He will be wishing he had kept that 10 year probation, guess he wants to wear those all white prison clothes and sing those Texas prison blues!

  440. Anon 4:39pm asked: Has any one ever completed a family tree/genealogy (in depth) on a polygamous family…

    I think Third Cousin takes the prize for the family tree. She is somehow related to just about everyone, it seems. It’s amazing to me how she can keep track without her head spinning off her shoulders. Her tree is like an enormous oak with hundreds of limbs [family lines] and thousands of leaves [people].

  441. I’m a speed reader. I was born with it and I’ve taken courses in it, I read this thread in about two minutes. BTW, Warren Jeffs, Lyle Jeffs, David Darger, those crazy-ass Lebarons and the FLDS hardcore are fricking crazy.

    Anonymous said this on February 1, 2012 at 8:02 PM

    How are you at finding missing puzzle pieces? Eric LeBaron along with his brother is kidnapped in May 2009. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705301353/Teen-from-polygamous-LeBaron-family-abducted.html
    Walton

  442. Eric LeBaron returns home. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705302588/Kidnapped-boy-from-polygamous-family-returned-home.html

    Walton

  443. Meridith Romney (former LDS temple president) is kidnapped in June 2009 but later released unharmed.

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=6845389

    Walton

  444. Hey 3C, are you kin to Marjorie Johnson, Winston’s concubine who’s boohooing on the witness stand in Canada? If so, would you please tell her that she’s a Barlow, not a Johnson by blood.

    K, thanks.

  445. This was written July 2009 : http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705316373/Mexico-to-arm-train-LDS-community.html

    Mexico to arm, train LDS community
    Walton

  446. Brad/OO/PK,

    I am not amused at your tax policy. Please consider revising it.

    PT

  447. http://themormonworker.wordpress.com/2011/06/06/mexican-mormons-against-the-drug-war/

    Be sure to read the comments.

    Now..
    1. The people that kidnapped Eric LeBaron and his brother had released one brother and made sure that Eric ate before releasing him.
    2. These same people supposedly taken Benjamin and his brother-in-law execution style because they had an issue with “Joel lebaron”.
    3. Meridiths captures from what I understand made sure he ate as they knew he had health issues but did release him.

    Question- What is missing from that picture?

    Question- When the cartel busted into the home of LeBaron they questione the one wife about the “guns and the money”.

    Question- What LDS Church would Meridith Romney be “President” ? Isn’t this during the time that Hinckley was President of the LDS Church?

    Question- In one of the articles it stated that the “boss” of the cartel had issues with LeBaron. What issues did a drug boss have with this LeBaron?

    Nothing I have brought here is a secret. It’s on the net. Been in the news for at least 2 almost 3 years.

    Some things just don’t add up no matter how hard I try.
    Walton

  448. Walton: The article clearly states that Meredith Romney had been the president of the LDS Temple in Chihuahua Mexico, not president of the LDS church. Each of the LDS temples has a president of that temple.

    “The former president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ temple in Chihuahua, Mexico, has been kidnapped.”

  449. “Hey 3C, are you kin to Marjorie Johnson, Winston’s concubine who’s boohooing on the witness stand in Canada? If so, would you please tell her that she’s a Barlow, not a Johnson by blood.
    K, thanks.”

    For someone who Does NOT know what their talking about. Marjorie Johnson is indeed a Johnson. Her Father is John Barlow Johnson (Leroy S. Johnson & Sarah E. Barlow’s Son) and her Mother is {Vickie Esther Holm Barlow Johnson Barlow}. (Carl O. N. Holm Sr. and Marjorie’s daughter). (Vickie E. Holm) Married and Divorced Edwin Barlow hence the Barlow, Married John B. Johnson (who sired Marjorie) hence the Johnson; was released from him. Married Alvin S. Barlow Sr, hence the Barlow again… Vickie had 3 daughters from Edwin, Trudy, Susan, and Pauleen. The rest of her children were from John Johnson. Marjorie is a Johnson ! If you don’t know the facts, don’t post hearsay.

  450. Chemist- I thought that the BIG building in Salt Lake ( where the choir sings/ and Hinckly spoke) was the Temple.

    And I thought all the rest were called meeting houses.

    And the whole thing together was called The Church.

    So what’s a meeting house?

    And if all those other buildings are called “temples” does that mean they too aren’t open to the public? And if each one has a President why is the Big guy called a President?

    And if each of those Temples has a President does that mean he also has 12 people that sits in on the decisions made?

    And yes, I know I am a pain in the butt. Sorry. Asking the questions is the only way I know to get the answers.

    Walton

  451. I found it chemist. http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/stgeorge/presidents/

    Walton

  452. Keep asking, Walton. I love all the links and comments from everyone. I would love to see a family tree of all the families and how they are related, who is married/sealed, the kids names, etc, ad nauseum.

  453. http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl/1988_554299/police-take-closer-look-at-83-lebaron-suicide.html#

  454. http://articles.latimes.com/1992-09-20/news/vw-1753_1_utah-prison-cult-lebaron-family/4

  455. walton, there are over 100 LDS temples and each one has a president. The SLC temple is just one of many LDS temples.

  456. The large building where the choir sings in SLC is the tabernacle. It is not a temple and is open to the public. There is also a large building called the conference center where Church general conferences are held. It is open to the public. There are many meeting houses throughout the world where local LDS congregations hold chuch services. They are open to the public.
    LDS temples are not open to the public after they have been dedicated. The SLC temple has 6 spires and is open only to LDS members who have a recommend to enter LDS temples.

  457. Uncle Warren is a true and righteous man. He knows the hearts of all and he can discern your intent, whether righteous or wicked. He is looking into the hearts of all who inhabit this nation and is allowing the judgement to come.

    I believe in him and know that he is doing good. I give him all I have and do so freely. If it is in you to repent and do good works then I admonish you to give him all that you have and see to it that we help him carry his work forward.

    He cannot do this work in a jail cell. He cannot do this work if he is left to resort to masturbation. He needs the comfort of good women around him who can attend to his wants, which are just and good. If he is left to masturbate much longer I fear that he will be weakened and become discouraged.

    We cannot allow this to happen.

  458. Stop Polygamy in Canada Society has a new website.
    http://stoppolygamy.com/

  459. For someone who Does NOT know what their talking about. Marjorie Johnson is indeed a Johnson. Her Father is John Barlow Johnson (Leroy S. Johnson & Sarah E. Barlow’s Son) and her Mother is {Vickie Esther Holm Barlow Johnson Barlow}. (Carl O. N. Holm Sr. and Marjorie’s daughter). (Vickie E. Holm) Married and Divorced Edwin Barlow hence the Barlow, Married John B. Johnson (who sired Marjorie) hence the Johnson; was released from him. Married Alvin S. Barlow Sr, hence the Barlow again… Vickie had 3 daughters from Edwin, Trudy, Susan, and Pauleen. The rest of her children were from John Johnson. Marjorie is a Johnson ! If you don’t know the facts, don’t post hearsay.
    Anoymous said this on February 2, 2012 at 12:07 AM

    Maybe you are the one who should check the facts and Marjorie’s DOB versus the marriage date of Vickie to John Barlow Johnson. Marjorie was born in Dec 1970 and Vickie married John Johnson in May 1970. Looks to me like she was 2 months pregnant with Marjorie when she married John.

  460. The reason that he is in a jail cell at all is to make sure that he cannot “continue his work” of raping little girls. Having sex with a quorum of 12 year olds is not the will of God. Breaking up families, isolating children from their biological parents so that no one will speak up on how their lives are run, controlling the money of well meaning believers for your own benefit; those are not the acts of a righteous man. I feel for you, faithful FLDS person, and pray that you wake up before he destroys you and your family as well. Get out and see some of the rest of the world.

  461. OK why does it matter if Morjorie is a barlow or johnson?

    Sorry PT after further review I regret to inform you that we will not be able to change our tax policy at this time.

    Also……This is warren ………….right hand of god. He can continue is work in a cell with a bell, in a house with a mouse, or even in a box with a fox.

  462. Uncle Warren is a true and righteous man. He knows the hearts of all and he can discern your intent, whether righteous or wicked. He is looking into the hearts of all who inhabit this nation and is allowing the judgement to come.

    I believe in him and know that he is doing good. I give him all I have and do so freely. If it is in you to repent and do good works then I admonish you to give him all that you have and see to it that we help him carry his work forward.

    He cannot do this work in a jail cell. He cannot do this work if he is left to resort to masturbation. He needs the comfort of good women around him who can attend to his wants, which are just and good. If he is left to masturbate much longer I fear that he will be weakened and become discouraged.

    We cannot allow this to happen.

    Anonymous said this on February 2, 2012 at 4:41 AM

    Betty I believe this was a joke……if you didn’t already know. A joke by someone that has alot of contact with apostates or was a plyg. An actual plyg would never think of warren as resorting to mastrubation. Its a sin just ask Uncle Luis Barlow lol.

  463. Apparently Marjorie whoever is the daughter in law of the brother in law of my first cousin three times removed.

  464. OO

    Very perceptive of thee. I thinketh you rangeth the bell.

  465. Is that kind of like in Spaceballs where he sayse “I’m your uncles cousins brothers roomate.”

    I’m guessing this has to do with record keeping purposes? I cant imagine you have a real connection with your ……whatever she is lol.

  466. Anonymous said this on February 2, 2012 at 4:41 AM

    No true and righteous man would tell his followers to dump their male children on the edge of town without education, money, or family and leave them to fend for themselves. These boys are children of God. Most of us outside your group treat our dogs, cats and livestock better than you treat your own flesh and blood.

    No true and righteous man would break up families and allow his followers to live in poverty while he lives in splendor.

    No true and righteous man would have orgies with little girls.

    No true and righteous man would ignore the law of the land and tell his followers to bleed the beast.

    Actions speak louder than words. And Warren’s actions show he is ungodly. God nor man will ever let Warren out of jail where he could continue to harm others.

  467. OO – I will have to take your word for it. Not to mention that being on the internet is banded.

    But, who would have thought that teaching 12 years olds inside the zipper ranch temple to get each other “excited” in order to be ready for him was acceptable either. Yet he even recorded it.

  468. Here is the OO official breakdown

    “Uncle Warren is a true and righteous man. He knows the hearts of all and he can discern your intent.”

    Thise line tells me this person is explyg or is around explygs. This very saying word for word is just some BS that has been slung around the creek for years. Most the time people inbed it into their testimony for brownie points.

    “He cannot do this work in a jail cell. He cannot do this work if he is left to resort to masturbation.”

    This is the sort of thing if anyone knew you said and it got reported to the bishop would get you kicked out. And if the person truly felt Warren could see all and hear all……well then this person would know in their mind that they are pooched.

  469. No doubt watergirl, Warren is truly demented. Its absolutly crazy the crap he has pulled. But even I can admit that if they would have “let me be a good boy” i would probably be defending him right now. I might have been one of those sorry bastards carrying in boxes of files. Even worse I would be in prison for saying “the lords will be done”. Its not a far stretch of the imgaination to see myself in anyone elses shoes out there. That jessica person made good points imo. The cult mindset is that you place your morals firmly in the hands of your “spiritual leader”. I’m not saying its right in fact its totally effed up. But its very real and true to the people that go through it.

    Its been said you can be weighed by the company you keep. I think the more correct term is you get weighed by value of people you chose to trust.

    All i have to say is thank you so much bigwig church holy people for never believing in me lol.

  470. http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Opinion+Blackmore+former+teen+bride+gets+emotional+witness+stand/6090414/story.html

  471. http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2003-08-07/news/eyes-wide-shut/

    IN RE: Dan Barlow

  472. On Marjorie, I don’t know anything more. I thought she was a Johnson. But two things: (1) you cannot assume there was no sex before marriage and (2) you cannot assume a 40 week gestation. My babies were born at 34 and 36 weeks.

  473. http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/specialReports/view/212740/

    Good links to stories about FLDS, WSJ, etc.

  474. I was wondering when you guys were going to bring his name up.

  475. Whose name? John Dougherty’s? Or Dan Barlow’s?

  476. All I see on this thread are a bunch of people who are jealous of Uncle Warren. You people need to get a life and leave Uncle Warren alone!

  477. Genealogy Anon 02/01/2012 4:39:

    My family tree has the Jeffs, Barlows, and Jessops back to before Joseph Smith but they did not emigrate as early as others. I have the Kingstons only to the mid 1800s, but they came from England late. I have the Allreds to 1700s, and the LeBarons and Johnsons back to the mid 1500s and early 1600s. They emigrated quite early. The LeBaron group came down through the Johnson line, which married in closely with Joseph Smith’s family. The Johnsons were part of the original School of the Prophets. My database is nearing 13,000 and, OO, it calculates exact relationships that I barely comprehend. It is not available anywhere online. It has lots of stories, photos, vitals certificates, and news articles.

    I’m not sure why I care so much about dead people. I took over the family genealogy from grandma when she died. She liked to cut whole branches off our tree to secret our polygamists. I had to go back and fill them in.

  478. Dan Barlow Jr.

  479. this Anonymous person is cracking me up big time.

  480. Why do I “crack you up”? I find the FLDS, et. al., fascinating in terms of sociology and psychology of groups. I love genealogy, having compiled my family back to the 1600’s (paternal side). Glad I could humour you ( assuming you mean me)! No disrespect intended to anyone who comments here. I am truly interested and enjoy everyone’s comments. Educating those of us who were not raised in the FLDS, or LDS for that matter, can only have a positive effect! Thank you to everyone for educating me on your life experiences and knowledge. 😀

  481. All I see on this thread are a bunch of people who are jealous of Uncle Warren. You people need to get a life and leave Uncle Warren alone!

    Anonymous said this on February 2, 2012 at 11:56 AM

    this person cracks me up.

  482. You won’t be so “cracked up” when Uncle Warren is freed and his persecutors are made as the dust under his feet. He will be freed and the entire world will know of his righteous ways.

    I gave Uncle Warren my business, half of my income, and a house that I built. He has never betrayed me and he never did me wrong. I gave it gladly.

    You are laughing now, but the laughing will cease and Uncle Warren’s righteous hand will not be stayed for long. Even now the way is being opened up for him.

  483. HAHAHAHAHA

    Today is a great day.

    What about daughters? you give him any of those?

  484. Uncle Warren HAS masturbated in prison. When a man of his passion and love is left alone to himself then he is left to find a way to express that passion and love. He should be giving it to his wives and handmaids and they would gladly receive it. I know of this.

    I don’t fault Uncle Warren for masturbating but I do recognize that it could possibly lead to an undermining and erosion of his courage. It does such things to a man.

  485. It matters not whether I have received any of his daughters. Who am I to concern myself with such things? I only want that which Uncle Warren wants me to have and I am happy; my cup is overflowing with blessings. You need to find happiness in your life. I can discern your character and know that there is something in your life that eats away at you. You need to overcome it and I pray that you can.

  486. Ahhhh, Anon Warren-lover, thou art a fake. Were thou real and true, thou wouldst not be defaming thyself by posting on this most wicked of all internet websites. Thou lovest only to see how others kick against your pricks for the purpose of tweaking thine own funny bone. By any other name thou wouldst still be a troll.

  487. What a commanding use and application of the English language you have, EJay. Is that a prerequisite to being a prick?

  488. I too have a funny bone to pick.

  489. I must be missing the joke.

  490. Just having a little fun calling out a troll, Betty.

  491. Go, Ejay, Go, EJay, go, go, go! You may feed the trolls!

  492. I can discern your character and know that there is something in your life that eats away at you. You need to overcome it and I pray that you can.

    Anonymous said this on February 2, 2012 at 12:39 PM

    What eats at me is people who support Warren, dump their own sons like garbage, give their little girls to pedophiles, take my tax money to feed tons of kids that they can’t afford on their own and troll sites.

  493. Sounds like Anonymous for Uncle Warren is a real looney tune , lol ..other-Anon

  494. Anon at 4:41, is that YOU, AGAIN? I thought you left the group of your own free will long ago and did not think much of Warren. Why the change of heart.

  495. Ode to Warren

    End of the World as he knows it

  496. LOL.

  497. http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl/1988_519621/a-heritage-of-hot-lead-and-cold-steel-cult-of-terr.html

  498. http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl/1989_600321/daughter-of-polygamist-cult-leader-apparently-kill.html

  499. http://www.mormonfundamentalism.com/Photos/Harpers1934/harpers1934.htm

  500. https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MQZ3-K5Q

  501. Apparently , anonymous for Uncle W , wants to tell/preach to us his religion , please do WE have to hear it ! Admin , I think it’s time to start a new discussion PLEASE !!!! other-Anon

  502. http://www.theprovince.com/news/Winston+Blackmore+sister+testifies+against+polygamous+leader+federal+case/6093017/story.html

    Today in Canada

  503. #SafetyNet Conference will be held on June 15 at the #Utah State Capitol Auditorium. Focus on youth from #polygamy communities.

  504. Great links, anon.

  505. Here’s the latest from Mike Watkiss with a new report from “short creek”, appears that Warren is getting desperate and Lyle is the new evil in control.

    http://www.azfamily.com/video/?id=138601174&id=138601174&sec=528732&sec=528732

    An excellent video IMO!

  506. Here’s more on the most lawless town in America.

    http://www.azfamily.com/news/watkiss/Polygamist-prophent-Warren-Jeffs-controlling—138601174.html

  507. That anon thats posing as a warren supporter is either hillarious or quite simply off the meds……….i think i will laugh either way.

  508. Uncle Warren HAS masturbated in prison. When a man of his passion and love is left alone to himself then he is left to find a way to express that passion and love. He should be giving it to his wives and handmaids and they would gladly receive it. I know of this.

    I don’t fault Uncle Warren for masturbating but I do recognize that it could possibly lead to an undermining and erosion of his courage. It does such things to a man.

    Anonymous said this on February 2, 2012 at 12:35 PM

    btw anon warren lover guy…………this sounds a lot like self justification on your part. Do you have a problem ………..apperently you didnt spend enough time in Luis Barlow’s preist class……….. Either that your your related to Uncle Nephi lol.

  509. Thanks to all those bringing such great links. It’s one way to keep me somewhat quiet. 🙂 The LeBaron links/ the other stories and this group of videos from Mike Watkiss.

    I remember when Ruths story first came out. ( We all have been here too long following a story that should have already been settled.)

    Ruth today is just as beautful as she was back then. Who could not smile back at her?

    Mike Watkiss did a nice job with these 3 stories. The only thing that I would like to see different is that instead of trying to put the camera in the faces of the FLDS is that he pesters the crap out of those that are in position to stop the cycle.

    Utah is a right to work state. They have let good people go that were doing their jobs. archeologists. Mr. Cuch. They need to get rid of the chumps allowing polygamy to continue. The only ones that can do that are the people inside the circle.

    I think Utah has been a testing ground for the Govt. And the ooompa looompas running the show need a swift kick in the pants.


    Winston Blackmore giving his kid a 1,000 bucks and telling him where to go is very telling. All about family? and then calling himself a religious leader?


    off topic kinda. Why do SOME Church leaders/ and Churches shut the doors and hearts on those that probably need them the most? Makes no sense to me.

    Walton

  510. New report on Warren Jeffs statue, appears it arrived Nov 29, 2011, in three shipping large shipping crates. From article:
    “If the story is true, the statue arrived back at the YFZ Ranch the night of Nov. 29. Biggerstaff says the youth informed him it was en route from Utah, on a truck, in three wooden shipping crates.”

    Read the rest:

    http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=19099891&title=unique-construction-project-under-way-at-flds-ranch&s_cid=featured-1

  511. Another interesting item from the KSL article, the following, “A mirror image reveals the text is about Cyrus of Persia.”
    The Branch Davidians hold this to be of great importance, it was central to the teachings of David Koresh, the polygamous prophet of that group.

    “The name Koresh is a transliteration of the Hebrew word for “belly”. [9] It is also a transliteration of the Persian name of Cyrus (Modern Persian: کوروش, Kurosh), the Persian king who allowed the Jews who had been dispersed throughout Babylonia by Nebuchadnezzar to return to their homelands. His first name, David, symbolized a lineage directly to the biblical King David, from whom the new messiah would descend. By taking the name of David Koresh, he was “professing himself to be the spiritual descendent of King David, a messianic figure carrying out a divinely commissioned errand.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Koresh

  512. Leroy Jessop is no longer requesting an oral argument to try to convince the Apellate system that he is indigent. Hopefully well get a ruling soon and he ca start making excuses for raping a 15 year old mentally challenged girl.

  513. New/old construction stories- imo it’s still a fish bowl. But it was nice to see John H. take those extra steps to tell that story.

    Statue? unloaded in the night into a “temple” that is deemed unfit? What would that make the statue? lol IF there is such a thing and I am not saying that Mr. Big is wrong but the kid that told him probably was told the story by Turkey Lurkey and he believes it to be true.

    IF there is such a statue it could very well be a statue of John Taylor or Joseph Smith the Angel Moroni. It’s anyones guess.

    ——-
    Safety Net: has lost ALL credibility with me as has the stories written about them. Safety Net appears to me to be a “Safety Net” for those practicing Polygamy and want to continue to practice Polygamy with the backing of those oompa loompas I talked about earlier. ( Paul Murphy are ya listen’ ?)
    They treated Brenda Jensen and others from the HOPE organization poorly, handed out Anne Wildes books and etc./ have had the TLC person there/ encouraged the whole Sister Wives mess/ teamed up with the Dargers and Love times three and decided not to discuss Sam B. book.

    I don’t believe in the practice of Polygamy, I won’t support it and I think they should enforce that ONE law to PREVENT other laws being broken.

    I think anyone reporting on the Safety Net that has a “lean to” should just step aside and allow someone with tenny runners and some “instinct power” to do some major journalistic drive digging to share facts not just what the AG pr person wants them to say.

    Walton

  514. Walton, the statue is real and it is of Warren. The kid who told Biggerstaff about it was working for Biggerstaff.

  515. This seems to be the best of the articles from yesterday on Winston

    http://www.vancouversun.com/life/Bountiful+siblings+clash+fight/6096146/story.html

  516. Please continue on Discussion 71, “Holy Statue Batman, is that an Oscar?”

    — Admin

    https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2012/02/03/general-discussion-71/

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