General Discussion #64

Continued from General Discussion #63

Today’s Headline:

Polygamist Street Preacher / Child Kidnapper Brian David Mitchell has arrived at a federal maximum security prison in Arizona

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on September 15, 2011.

478 Responses to “General Discussion #64”

  1. From A Texan on #63:

    Polygamist Brian David Mitchell has arrived at a federal maximum security prison in Arizona.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52500560-78/mitchell-prison-smart-federal.html.csp

    And in other Utah related news appears that missing Susan Powell’s body was found in western Utah desert.

    http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/UPDATE-Remains-found-in-Juab-County-determined-to/9jelYP5ABE2CzXwOUKclsw.cspx

  2. What day of the week is Anderson Cooper’s new show on ?? What’s the name of his new show ?? Would like to see that interview with Wallace Jeffs …………..

  3. http://www.andersoncooper.com/

    There’s a place where you can put in your zip code and see when/if the show airs in your area.

  4. FYI , Anderson Cooper will be having Wallace Jeffs , along with other former FLDs members interviews Thursday , September, 22 ,, on the Anderson show ,check for times & listings……. FYI……..

  5. I can’t tell if this man is serious.

  6. And in other Utah related news appears that missing Susan Powell’s body was found in western Utah desert.

    ———————–

    Susan Powell’s father says he doesn’t believe the remains belong to her, because they were found “in a shallow grave” but when she disappeared the ground was frozen. But we’ll see.

    Josh Powell’s father is a real creep. He claims Susan had a crush on him and was very “sexual” with him. He and his son are trying to portray her as a slut who ran off with another man.

  7. the wsj video, warren is innocent : the guy talking it is one weird & sick man, he rambles on about all kinds of things he supposedly claims he’s read the bible & knows it all , he was saying it’s okay for men to have 12 year old girls, that Eve was created by Satan & caused a lot of problems ever since that time, then he talks about women’s bodies as being unclean for a lot of reasons I can’t talk about without getting angry ! this guy talking on video ob youtube I think is one sick puppy, & is as crazy as wsj !

  8. A Texan’s comment and link on the previous blog does NOT prove that it is Susan Powell’s body.

    http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/UPDATE-Remains-found-in-Juab-County-determined-to/9jelYP5ABE2CzXwOUKclsw.cspx

    The article says “”It’s what we’ve been looking for,” said Merritt, who added that while it’s too soon to tell if it’s a match with Susan Powell, the age of the remains would make it a possibility. ”

    So please don’t be saying her body has been found until it is for sure. Thanks.

  9. The YouTube guy is creeeepy. Another ‘God says it’s ok” endorsement. Lucifer created marriage…it’s evil. Women are nameless… And Democracry is to blame, as well. I had to quit listening after 4min. Argh!!! Another child molester at large!

  10. 4 Utah creeps who deserve to be incarcerated – IMHO

    1) Brian David Mitchell – nice to know that he headed off to a maximum security prison in Arizona today.

    2) Warren Steed Jeffs – nice to know that he will soon return back to his maximum security prison in Texas.

    3) Jeremy David Johnson – this scammer and cheater was released on a $2.8 million property bond today, but I bet there is a cell still waiting for him in the near future.

    4) Josh Powell – he and/or his father – may soon find awaiting jail cell(s). That will be a lucky day for justice in Utah.

  11. Anybody actually heard if WSj has blood clots in legs or is he trying to get sympathy for his predicament, or is it all disinformation ??

  12. I don’t know whether WSJ has blood clots but I’m pretty sure one cannot fake them, as I understand they are detected by ultrasound and X-ray.

  13. Susan Cox Powell:

    “They also do not yet know whether the body was male or female, but [West Valley police lieutenant] Merritt said there was a 50-50 chance it is Powell.”

    I love an respect almost all LE, but this comment floored me or was out of context.

  14. Actually they have not yet found a body, but are still digging. From SLT:

    “Soil at the site showed signs of a recent disturbance indicating remains would be less than 10 years old, Merritt said. Investigators by Thursday evening had dug an area about 2 feet wide and 1 foot deep at the site but did not discover any bones before stopping for the day at 6 p.m.

    “The dogs are still smelling something, but we have not come across bones,” Merritt said. “We have not come across clothing.”

  15. No one can “fake” a DVT (blood clots in the legs or pelvis).
    The diagnosis is made by ultrasound, venogram, or radionuclide scan.

  16. WSJ’s father, Rulon, had varicose veins stripped from one leg when he was fairly young. I understand there is a hereditary factor with venous varicosity.

    Is there a hereditary factor involved in – and/or a relationship between – venous varicosity and DVT? (…other than the obvious – both having to do with veins.)

  17. HA HA

    That guy who put up the “Warren is innocent” video

    From his profile, one of the strangest ones seen. Right up there with Mr. McGoo.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/tony565565

    a former TSA agent, now working in “loss prevention”

    ” I became more into hebrewism or Old Testament only bible believer. Not Jewish though! I hate gay marriage, I hate womens divorce rights, im okay with basic womens rights only.I dont care for childrens rights either. I like old saabs/volvos from the 80s”

  18. A former TSA agent who “Doesnt care for childrens rights either”

    Well that explains why he is a former employee!

  19. IRT Susan Powell

    The cops are handling the press side of this quite poorly, giving out lots of bad intel and obviously not telling what they know.

    I tend to believe that this was the body location, but that it was moved. I visited a spot where a body had been dumped near an office I once worked at.

    Even though the body was gone, the smell was strong.

  20. The odd thing about where that body was dumped, it was inside a high tech industrial park which included a large covert Government facility which had cameras pointed in every direction.

    I think they just busted the guy who did it, and its been about 20 years.

  21. E Texas

    Not a doctor but I think DVT is a condition of environment and not heredity.

    It may be complicated by other factors, but realize he was in prison and sedentry, we dont know if he was getting any excersise at all, it sounds as if he isnt.

    I know a guy who is getting strokes and he works sitting in a chair all day on the phone, but he is generally fit, a big hunter, has a weight room and has possibly used steroids.

    Another friend died of a heart attack at 48 who was working as an oil rig worker and fell ill in Egypt while on a BP job, came back and had his heart attack at the Doctors office waiting room.

  22. Geez, tony565565 has been busy – 31 videos on Youtube – based on the names they are all hate related. Scary to realize folks with this view actually live among us. Another reminder of how lucky I am that I grew up and live without hate, violence, or oppression in my little world.

  23. tony565565 videos : he sounds afrocentric, all his claims I’ve heard before from other ” afrocentrists ” & I just turned off the videos, those types of videos are causing RACIAL TENSION ! I think Mr. Magoo is a good description of this ” race baiter ” & pervert ! …….. other-anon

  24. Yo, Stamp, I mean, far be it from me to EVER find fault with anything you say, since you remain the funniest flds- bbq- artist imo…. but I am CERTAIN that you didn’t mean to insult the original Mr. McGoo. I mean, I liked Mr. McGoo way back when, sitting in front of the tube as I did, yeah, verily, in my little rocking chair, as my not-quite tow-headed little self, watching Captain Kangaroo, Popeye, Cartoon Corners, and the like…

  25. There is a black hebrew movement that believes in domination of women and polygamy. There is lots of that on Youtube.

    He makes reference to Malachi York. He believed he was an incarnation of a superior being from another planet. He plead guilty to 70 some charges including molestation of boys and girls, obstructing justice, witness tampering, sexual exploitation, all related to children of adults in his cult. He’s serving umpteen years in prison. He still has followers who think that his conviction is a miscarriage of justice.

  26. Now wait a second- did I miss something about the original Mr. McGoo, or am I having another of my inumerable senior moments? What is it about the REAL Mr. McGoo that is causing his name to be sullied in this way? I haven’t looked at Mr. Misogynist’s vid, since my blood pressure and disgust meter definitely do not need straining today..

  27. I don’t get it, either, gretchen.

  28. I think it was in reference to the Magoo character on tv, in relation to another Mc person putting about in a smoky vehicle, who also happens to post similar crazy stuff as this tony nut?

    Watch the one about the Garden of Eden, he says “Most people have heard about the Garden of Eden” pretty fast in the video, I decided right there he was a nut job.

    Are there people at the TSA who havent heard about it? I can only wonder why they let him go!

  29. OH and I saw Dinoso call McGee “McGoo” on NCIS some time back.

    Poor Magoo gets sullied plenty, but it never bothers him, no worries!

  30. Dearest Anon (above)– Do you have some kind of INSURANCE I CAN BUY REAL QUICK TO GIVE ME SOME KIND OF PROTECTION WHILE I AM LISTENING TO mC-gack??? HE’S SO BAD SO QUICKLY INTO THE VID i DON’T KNOW WHAT TO DO!!

  31. We may need to start a “Pedophile Nut job of the month club” as more and more come out from under their rocks. He surely could be a charter member!

  32. From the Darger’s new book “Love Times Three”:

    Alina, Joe’s legal wife says:
    “I knew Joe because my older sister, with whom I was very close, had married his father, and I would see him occasionally at family gatherings.”

    So then Alina gets married to Joe Darger. Later, her cousins, Vicki and Val, (who are sisters) hitch up with Joe.

    OK, this sounds like inbreeding to me by this Independent Fundamentalist Mormon polygamous family. You have a woman marrying the son of her brother-in-law and then her two cousins (who are sisters) join her family and start having lots of children with her husband. How screwed up must their genealogy/family tree be?

  33. I got part of it wrong – Joe married wives Alina and Vicki on the same day. It was later that Vicki’s twin sister, Valerie, joined the family.

    That makes it even creepier – the woman’s 2 cousins who are TWIN sisters, were having children with her husband. What a convoluted mess their children’s family tree is!

  34. you guys probably already posted this since it is from August. apology if you have. Listed on Twitter today:

    http://msmagazine.com/blog/blog/2011/08/08/warren-jeffs-conviction-exposes-the-coercion-of-polygamy/

  35. Watergirl, I had not seen Zoe Murdock’s article at ms. blog before. Very good article–thanks for sharing.

  36. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2037998/UK-immigration-Polygamy-welfare-benefits-insidious-silence.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

    article on welfare and polygamy in England – not article editorial

  37. Thanks HHG – good read.

    The British are getting their own taste of polygamy and welfare fraud, albeit via muslim immigrants.

    In this Link, Lindsay W. points to the hypocrisy of Steed when he wants to violate the First Amendment freedom of free speech.

    Photos of him waltzing about to and from court, and his eventual perpwalk will be allowed, just like the others.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/52597817-191/steed-trial-attorney-freedom.html.csp

  38. Brooke Adams is pushing her book/pro polygamy in the comments section to this story on the book:

    http://thestir.cafemom.com/love_sex/126001/being_a_sister_wife_does

  39. In response to the comment by E. Texas : “Is there a hereditary factor involved in – and/or a relationship between – venous varicosity and DVT? (…other than the obvious – both having to do with veins.)”

    Varicose veins are a risk factor for DVT – but not as important as the risk factors of immobilization, dehydration, etc.
    I will post a link for you.

  40. Here is another link on DVT : http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000156.htm

  41. So Brooke’s pro polygamy book is going the way of the dinosaur?

    Maybe if she had a chapter on slavery or child labor…

  42. hmmmm, fast broadband Internet service for Colorado City. I wonder how long it’ll take for them to get their ROI?

    Wecom Inc. Delivers Huge Pipes to Colorado City, AZ and St. George, UT

    Wecom Inc. and sister company Data-Max Wireless announced this week they have reached a milestone in growth of 4,500% over the last 187 months, increasing their broadband internet base drastically. Wecom Inc and Data-Max has deployed the latest in fiber backbone services coupled with licensed Microwave Wireless, which has provided Wecom Inc and Data-Max with the resources necessary to deliver the highest quality broadband to customers such as Mohave Community College in Colorado City, AZ.

    http://www.prweb.com/releases/2011/9/prweb8801864.htm

  43. Anybody heard anything about WSJ’s blood clots or his condition right now, how’s he doing ?????? other-Anon

  44. Still hospitalized, Not a stubbed toe.

  45. http://www.andersoncooper.com/episodes/wallace-jeffs-and-former-members-of-flds/

  46. This is a good link about Mormons.

    http://www.hotm.tv/shows/aretheychristian.htm

  47. That was a very interesting video. I don’t really buy into all of the Christian doctrines, but it highlights the differences between Mormonism and “mainstream” Christianity quite nicely.

  48. Shawn McCraney’s Heart of the Matter is indeed an outstanding program. I just checked the specific show mentioned here, it’s pretty excellent for something under 19 minutes trying to address such a topic.

  49. I guess while I am at it, I will beat the drum for another favorite show of mine, Shield and Refuge, hosted by Doris Hanson, who grew up in the Kingston clan. Between these two shows, (Heart of the Matter, and Shield and Refuge) one can get quite a bit of good treatment of topics which are relevant to what’s going on with lds, flds, etc etc.

  50. I agree about both shows Gretchen. You can learn a lot from both.

  51. This is a good link about Mormons.

    http://www.hotm.tv/shows/aretheychristian.htm

    FLDS Texas said this on September 18, 2011 at 9:30 AM

    IMO this person is bigoted against LDS Mormons, he also shows bigotry towards Catholics as well, and he even takes a swipe at Baptists. I wouldn’t consider this a good source of info as this evangelical seems to think that if you don’t believe his way you are not Christian, with his attack in video on the Pope, the Baptists who he calls way too liberal, and even attacks Billy Graham, IMO one of the best of the TV evangelists.

    IMO this person is too narrow minded to take as a legitimate source of info on Mormons, Catholics, or Baptists.

    IMO anyone who believes in Christ as his or her savior is a Christian period. No matter the denominational name he goes by.

    My beef with the FLDS is they use religion as an excuse to abuse and hurt people, Don’t see the Catholics, Baptists, or LDS Mormons engaging in this behavior.

  52. A Texan, you have to agree that some Catholic priests have used their religion to hurt people and there are some Baptists who do also. I think that any religion that is a source of power over people has the potential to have those who will exploit it for their own purposes.

  53. I didn’t want to stir up a hornet’s nest by what I said. Those sometimes upset by Shawn McCraney need to clearly understand that he was born and raised lds and is extremely familiar with everthing taught in recent lds practices, and to an extent, older teachings. Many people like him, and I do mean many, finally begin to realize the multitude of lies they have been fed within mormonism, and it is truly a wonder he and others like him are not FAR more “bigoted” or bitter, or however it can be termed. Mr. McCarney DOES get excited- this is because of the many things he has done and experienced in his lifetime within his decades as a mainstream mormon, and since. Not one of us is perfect, please keep in mind.

    I want to say, I was raised Baptist, though not fundamentalist Baptist- there are pretty marked differences between some very conservative Baptist groups and those that are less so, and I know exactly what Mr. McCraney was saying on this video about “SOME Baptists that would make lds mainstream look conservative”, trust me, that is a very true statement. As I said, there is a wide range of tolerances (and less or no tolerance) for certain things within the spectrum of places which use the term baptist in their title.
    But at any rate, Mr. McCraney is a formally trained Bible student and he does teaching/commentating, taking MUCH harsh criticism, trying as he does to help the situation of widespread delusion that is perpetrated willfully by lds leadership across many western US states. He has, on-air, many times expressed his own knowledge of personal shortcomings and imperfections. He welcomes a wide range of questions on his radio programs and the show’s website.
    I have had MANY acquaintances , friends, employers, etc etc that are Catholic, etc., so I DO understand what McCraney says on his many programs, and one would have to take up with him personally whatever grievances they have with him. I do not want to cause trouble on this or any other blog, please believe me. There are failings with the practitioners of all faiths, unfortunately it can sometimes seem high in number, but there are millions who lead exemplary lives in all those faiths as well. Again, Mr. McCraney is very interested in all types of discussion, the website is Heart of the Matter, and it’s got toll-free numbers on it.
    Please remember something that many DO forget- mormonism was founded by a couple guys that were EXTREMELY critical of “ALL the Christian churches” that existed during their lifetimes. It is a total fallacy to believe otherwise. J Smith and B Young made astonishing, sweeping statements demonizing ALL Christian churches, and yes, the Bible at times fell under their condemnation in important ways, as did even Jesus Christ Himself, believe it or not. Now what I am saying here may seem incendiary, and it is not meant to be in any way. I am stating fact as I have found it to be, based on many hours of reading. LDS leadership for many years has kept a heavy cloak on lots of information that is now easier to obtain than ever. There is a mountain of information proving the very serious criticisms that were leveled by lds against Christian churches in years gone by. And, as we speak, there are some critical differences between evangelical Bible doctrines and lds basic teachings, even though lds leaders truly seem to hate admitting that. One could go on forever, this is a blog centering on flds watching and comments. None of us that visit this blog will ever finish if we get going on broader debates about various much larger groups than flds.
    Again, I apologize for any disturbances caused. It’s inevitable with this kind of thing. God bless each one today.

  54. I apologize for any typos in my post above.

  55. One must, I repeat, MUST understand that lds leadership strongly discourages lds members from doing their own research on things critical of whatever Salt Lake leadership is promoting at any given time, as I understand it. I have heard this said MANY times, by many former lds.
    I have also heard time and again of how people are made to feel that want out of lds. This has discouraged many mainstream lds from doing what they need to do, to piece together the facts of their comparatively very young faith. It is now extremely easy to do research for oneself. The mountain of evidence is astounding, regarding what has been said and written since day one, by J Smith and other early (and later) lds leaders.

    Now, flds is even easier, in a way, because it is even younger than lds. And has so tiny a number of adherents, as faith systems go, worldwide. Which is why we gotta stick to that. I again want to apologize for clumsiness and any imperfectly rendered ideas or statements. I do not, do NOT mention things which I have not heard a very bare minimum of three times from different sources. I have personally experienced many of today’s places of worship, over decades. I have received kind of harsh criticism myself at times. I would simply encourage one and all to google to their heart’s content.

  56. Cosmo has just created his own blog on polygamy :
    http://cosmophilosophy.blogspot.com/2011/09/what-this-blog-is-about.html

  57. ooh cool. will definitely follow this one.

  58. GOOD NEWS !

    It is true. It seems the Ice is beginning to melt slowly here in CCA/ Hildale.
    I have seen people come out of nowhere and appear on facebook saying ” We will soon be out of this ” ” Please be patient as we remove our families ”

    ” We are looking forward to reuniting with our relatives”
    ” We have been through unbelievable Trial”
    ” Pray for our safety” …
    ” We are anxious to reunite with our other family members ”

    I am ENCOURAGED.

    Stay the course .. S

  59. This IS truly encouraging, if they can follow through. Maybe, some feel less pressure to continue on under the new regime with WJ gone [for time and eternity!!! ]. I hope it comes to pass.

  60. If there’s an actual breaking or thawing of attitudes amongst the sheeple i Short Creek, that’s GOOD ! The thawing out could involve a split or many splits of sheeple, sick & tired of WSJ’s BS ! Who knows, might open up the town some more & we can get more & better goods & services, without having to drive to St. George , Utah to get them ! Hopefully there is thawing out or ice breaking in town, could be a split , many splits, maybe for the better ? other-Anon

  61. Now if the Tenth circuit could only step up and help release them from their bondage…

  62. @Anonymous on September 18, 2011 at 10:06 PM

    That IS encouraging news. I pray it’s true! Authentic change must come from within.

    It’s been too many years with no real communication, stories, celebrations and laughter – and HUGS – missed from so many family members. I never lose hope.

  63. I too hope that this is “real” news. It would be wonderful and, if coupled, with a “good” decision from the 10th court on the UEP assets allowing individual ownership could be the beginning of a true future.

  64. Yes, I have hope this will happen also.

  65. (R-Rated singing)

  66. Uncaduff is quite a character.

  67. Pringle compound news (sort of)

    http://www.keloland.com/News/NewsDetail6371.cfm?Id=121045

  68. Colorado City employment rate

    http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2011/09/19/news/local/doc4e76f0991cf00292045915.txt

  69. On CC unemployment rates.

    As I understand it, unemployment rates are the rate of people who file for unemployment.

    Not only is that going to be low in an economy that is run under the table (no proof- pay in cash, relatives)– that would also result in a very low workman comp report rate or lawsuit rate amongst residents.

    So, in a nutshell the numbers there are going to be skewed – and thats the reason why – cash economy amongst family and flds friends.

  70. Remember the story of an ex flds, who needed a car? He couldnt get a loan, so he was told to go to the “office” and get paystubs showing he made what he needed to qualify.

    This is bank fraud, but hey its CC.

  71. The problems in Pringle SD aren’t going to end anytime soon ! It’s happening off & on in Short Creek too !! As for the umemployment rate in CCA/ Hildale area ? If your not part of the FLDS group : apostates or otherwise, the businesses won’t hire you , I tried didn’t happen, same story in Centennial Park !!!! other-Anon

  72. I think Pringle is just another Warren- ordered yfz situation- rapid development, rapid breeding, hoping they can create enough of themselves and their facility there to cause expensive legal questions for the area. I feel bad for the people around them. I think there will be a bunch of things South Dakota will now have to start dealing with, as Texas has, and it will go on for years and years. One of the local men who is more than fed up with the constant construction noise said “It’s a cancer.”
    Yep…. flds don’t “want to be good neighbors.” flds wants to live in its own universe and just use everyone that isn’t flds, for whatever purpose they are told to use them. They are users, they use their own members from birth onward, and they just use everyone else. Whatever their self-important, holier-than-thou leadership dictates. And now they will know exactly how to avoid ever being “raided.” I am sure Warren did plenty to help them keep their felonies under tighter wraps. I honestly wonder just how many people are losing it inside the Pringle buildings as we speak. Kids that are being treated harshly who cry because of all the night noise, women who can’t take being so boxed-in, teens that are miserable and trying to figure out how to make an escape and survive.

    It’s a very un-Christian bunch, in lots more ways than one.

  73. I keep hoping at least one person will go to authorities who knows what goes on at Pringle, and give LE enough to go in and do a thorough search. There’s no way many situations that need attention would not be found. There is no way people can live indefinitely as flds forces all born in it to live.

  74. There is a reason for rapid fast construction. People don’t work day and night for months on end without there being a deadline of some sort. Work there, and plenty of work going on in YFZ. There is a reason they are working this hard and fast.

    YFZ in not under the UEP – although money from the trust built it and it should be seized as part of UEP. Is Pringle part of UEP or is it another place that is free from the control of the trust?

    Anyone want to guess at the reason for all the construction?

  75. Construction hmmm could be another mansion for Lyle , some sheeple, to go hide out, WSJ ‘s henchmen to hide out at, or maybe the sheeple are getting ready for the ” end of the world ” BS WSJ ‘s been preaching, could be a pedestal for a metal statue , WHO KNOWS ……

  76. I think Pringle is aimed at self-sufficiency as soon as possible and rapid construction gets this accomplished in the shortest timeframe. Every day that Pringle, Mancos, Eldorado exist gives life to more of the same in the FLDS Church future. If defying the laws, institutionalizing their members and building walls to keep outside influences away is fully fostered then the remedies become more severe and harder to employ at any of these gulags. The FLDS Church theocracy approach is now of record and the blind-eye methods of Utah/Arizona governments have proven that it will only worsen and become more defiant. As soon as Pringle is self-sufficient there will be more Pringles that follow.

  77. CaJim: I think youy are right on. The sooner pringle and YFZ become self sufficient, the sooner warren and his co-horts can abandon short creek; thereby making warrens dismossal of short creek come true.

  78. I looked at the clip about Pringle again. So much excavation. Whaddya bet they are getting ready to take the temple apart at yfz and re-assemble it at Pringle. It was “defiled” at yfz. Can’t let it go to waste?

  79. Lyle has 80+ wives of Warren to keep hidden, happy and very, very quiet. If one of those wives tries to describe or admit to the “heavenly seasons” the whole world of the FLDS will come crashing down around Lyle. It is in Lyle’s best interest to keep all of Warren’s wives out of circulation. Even one very innocent comment from one of these wives to their mothers or sisters would validate everything that Lyle is trying to keep hidden about Warren.

  80. May the good Lord loosen their tongues.

  81. Texas Monthly in the October issue has an excellent write up on the Warren Jeffs trial, I would encourage everyone to read it. They haven’t updated their website yet. The article is titled Non-Prophet and is written by Kathy Vine. This one article that I would love to see placed on every doorstep in short creek and every other FLDS community.

  82. It is true. It seems the Ice is beginning to melt slowly here in CCA/ Hildale.
    I have seen people come out of nowhere and appear on facebook saying ” We will soon be out of this ” ” Please be patient as we remove our families ”
    ” We are looking forward to reuniting with our relatives”
    ” We have been through unbelievable Trial”
    ” Pray for our safety” …
    ” We are anxious to reunite with our other family members ”
    I am ENCOURAGED.

    —————————————

    This IS encouraging, but it’s sad and scary, that here in the United States, these people need prayers for their safety.

    A church is supposed to provide comfort and sanctuary to its members, not threats against personal safety.

  83. new post up on the polygamy blog comparing 1953 and 2008 raids.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/52616066-191/raid-1953-2008-arizona.html.csp

    pretty interesting.

  84. Amen TexasConnie.

    Warren has 76 wives at the moment, 1 is dead and 1 left.

  85. WSJ released from hospital? Can anyone confirm?

  86. Thanks for the article Yehaaa, I love anything that attempts to place our current juxtaposition in the historical context. And it brings me back to reality that things were no better back then, despite the allure of the fantasy that a couple of bad seeds ruined what once was a virtuous religious practice that my ancestors went to prison to defend.

  87. But 3C, it was illegal back then too. That’s what gets me about this crap. It is just as illegal as growing/selling marijuana. No one but a Utah paper is going to write and continue writing papers that waffle on polygamy. They have a book review of the Darger’s book claiming it is a “must buy” book on polygamy. In my opinion, it should lead to arrest warrants for people who are obviously breaking the law and now telling the world about it.

  88. I met Katy Vine at the trial. She was wonderful to visit with and I look forward to reading her article.

  89. Amen, PT. Unfortunately, I will add to the royalties received by the Dargers because I will leave no stone unturned / unread in my complete study of mormon polygamy. I can’t help it, it is my heritage and I am condemned to attempt to understand it.

  90. http://www.kcsg.com/view/full_story/15606830/article-Warren-Jeffs-Released-From-Hospital—Returned-to-East-Texas-Prison?instance=home_first_stories

    If Warren is having trouble with blood clots, he best be careful as to how much kneeling he will be doing. Could have one of those “floaters” that is hard to detect even with the best equipment.

    Walton

  91. Yes Warren Jeffs was released from prison hospital and sent back to his prison cell.

    http://www.kcsg.com/view/full_story/15606830/article-Warren-Jeffs-Released-From-Hospital—Returned-to-East-Texas-Prison?instance=home_first_stories

    Wonder what kinda of oddball antics we can expect from that felonious profit next?

  92. What is Lyle currently purporting to the sheeple?

  93. If Warren is having trouble with blood clots, he best be careful as to how much kneeling he will be doing. Could have one of those “floaters” that is hard to detect even with the best equipment.

    Walton

    Anonymous said this on September 20, 2011 at 9:56 PM

    Well Walton you might just be a prophet, that highly likely how ole Warren will leave this world. Sooner or later he will leave the TDCJ in a pine box, hopefully to Peckerwood Hill Cemetery.

  94. Walton, just keep doing what ya do.

  95. Chemist, or others, if you are comfortable, what are the current questions posed in obtaining a temple recommend?

  96. They have a book review of the Darger’s book claiming it is a “must buy” book on polygamy. In my opinion, it should lead to arrest warrants for people who are obviously breaking the law and now telling the world about it.

    Proud Texan said this on September 20, 2011 at 9:36 PM

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I read the book. I am not impressed. It certainly is NOT a “must buy” – it is extremely dull. Expect the usual apologetics : ” I am a better person because I share my husband with other women and I like spending time away from my husband.” “I cannot expect one man to meet all my needs.”

    Another memorable portion of the book : one wife commented that she fantasized about her husband having 10 wives with each wife bearing 10 children. Then of course one of the wives starves herself down to 95 pounds while competing with one of the other women. 4 year old female children mixing infant formula and preparing bottles for their younger siblings.

    This is supposed to be healthy ? Not. They all need a therapist STAT.

    A “must buy” for me would be Sam Brower’s book, “Prophet’s Prey.”

  97. TC. Go to this site.

    http://www.mormondoctrine.net/misc/temple_recommend.htm.

  98. BIB

    ““I cannot expect one man to meet all my needs.” ”

    If one man cant meet all the needs of one woman, how the heck is he gonna meet the needs of a harem?

    And Walton thanks for the link

  99. Warren has been transported to another prison infirmary where he will recuperate so that he can then be returned to his permanent home at the Palestine Prison.

  100. They placed that felonious profit in the POLUNSKY unit.

    SID Number: 08888382 TDCJ Number: 01726705 Name: JEFFS,WARREN STEED Race: W Gender: M Age: 55 Maximum Sentence Date: LIFE SENTENCE CUMULATIVE OFFENSES Current Facility: POLUNSKY Projected Release Date: NOT AVAILABLE Parole Eligibility Date: 2038-07-22

    Allan B. Polunsky Unit Unit Address and Phone Number: 3872 FM 350 South, Livingston, Texas 77351
    (936) 967-8082 (**054)

    Custody Levels Housed: G1-G5, Death Row, Administrative Segregation

    Ole Warrens living in the same prison as the death row felons, now he’s in the toughest hardcore prison in Texas!

  101. Thank you, chemist.

  102. I don’t guess I realized that death row was in Livingston. I thought it was a Unit in Huntsville.

  103. I was gonna dodge the Drudgery tale anyway…partly because my title suggestion, “Coma Times Infinity” wasn’t even considered.

  104. I don’t guess I realized that death row was in Livingston. I thought it was a Unit in Huntsville.

    Proud Texan said this on September 21, 2011 at 10:31 AM

    PT they moved death row to Livingston,TX, Texas built a new max security prison for it called Polunsky. From State of Texas website:

    Death row was located in the East Building of the Huntsville Unit from 1928 to 1952. From 1952 until 1965, the electric chair was located in a building
    by the East Wall of the Huntsville Unit.

    The men on death row were moved from the Huntsville Unit to the Ellis Unit in 1965. Death row remained at the Ellis Unit until 1999. In 1999, the TDCJ moved death row to the Polunsky Unit.

    http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/drowfacts.htm

    Wonder what’s going through ole Warren’s mind as he realizes that he’s living with death row felons.

  105. I was gonna dodge the Drudgery tale anyway…partly because my title suggestion, “Coma Times Infinity” wasn’t even considered.

    gretchen said this on September 21, 2011 at 10:58 AM

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Having read the book I must say “Coma Times Three” is a better description of the contents.

  106. “I cannot expect one man to meet all my needs.”
    ………

    That is just too weird. When I read that sentence, it says to me that this woman needs more than one MAN to meet all her needs. Huh!?

    Either that or she means SHE needs more sister wives in the family to meet all HER needs, because one man just can’t cut it.

    I haven’t read the book; maybe I should. (I’m not inclined to, especially after the initial negative reviews.) I’ve indicated in the past there is sometimes a stronger matriarchy going on in some polygamous families versus the usual patriarchy. That’s what comes to my mind with that quote.

    Anyway, I’m sure I’m taking one sentence out of context; it’s just that it gave me a little double-take that a polygamous wife would put it like that. 😉

  107. I have yet to see a newspaper article or TV report stating that Warren had a blood clot. Where did this info come from?

  108. “….now he’s in the toughest hardcore prison in Texas!”

    Not yet.

    There is one worse than Polunsky and Warren is headed there after Polunsky according to the Eldorado Success.

    The Beto Unit.

  109. The info came from an email sent to the Court regarding a bench warrant issued for Warren to appear at his bigamy pretrial hearing on September 9. The only way for the court to get the info was to order him to appear that way the doctors would either have to send him or tell the court why he couldn’t appear. I doctors chose to tell the court via email. It arrived on September 8 and was read to the Judge while she was on the bench considering her options regarding the hearing. She wanted to have a video conference with Warren in lieu of his appearance and the doctor said that due to his blood clots he couldn’t sit up long enough to have a video conference, thus it was a phone conference. I’ve been told he was taken in a wheelchair to the location of the phone and the warden of the prison was with him throughout the conference.

  110. That is just too weird. When I read that sentence, it says to me that this woman needs more than one MAN to meet all her needs. Huh!?

    Either that or she means SHE needs more sister wives in the family to meet all HER needs, because one man just can’t cut it.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Yes, she is arguing that sister wives are needed because one man cannot meet her needs.

  111. Beto is known as a “gladiator” unit.

    Warren should be grateful that he will be kept in isolation.

  112. One man can’t meet all my needs, either. But that’s why I have girl friend’s lunch on pay day Fridays and volunteer at the food co-op, go to my artsy craftsy gatherings, stay in touch with my relatives and chat with distant friends on Facebook. I don’t have to move them in to my house, support and/or help raise their children and “submit” to the same man who is sleeping with all of us. And I don’t share my good kitchen knives with anybody.

    :smacks forehead: The stupid! It hurts!

  113. …oh, and my husband is perfectly capable of making a sandwich for himself when I’m out without bringing in a sex partner to do it for him.

  114. Well said Betty. No one individual person can be expected to satisfy ALL our needs, but that doesn’t mean that those other individuals who support and nurture us have to have intercourse with our husbands…..

  115. I am in the choir. 😉

  116. 🙂 “don’t share my good kitchen knives with anybody”

    Remind me to stay out of your kitchen

  117. I’m just glad WSJ didn’t come back to MY neck of the woods. Where’s the Beto Unit?

  118. “And I don’t share my good kitchen knives with anybody.”

    Betty, I’d love to have some knives I could say that about.

    Family loves to cook in my kitchen (and I don’t so much anymore) so I’m content to keep less-than-stellar knives around, along with decent sharpening tools.

    (Hey, Family, notice that little X-mas present hint?) ::wink, wink::

  119. too funny Betty – yes, take away our girlfriends and we are an unhappy bunch. But, on the same side of the coin – men usually also need time with their guy friends for very same reason. I never understood how a man would want more than one wife at home either. That much estrogen must drive them nuts.

    here is Mark Twain’s quote on his visit to SLC:
    With the gushing self-sufficiency of youth I was feverish to plunge in headlong and achieve a great reform here””until I saw the Mormon women. Then I was touched. My heart was wiser than my head. It warmed toward these poor, ungainly and pathetically “œhomely” creatures, and as I turned to hide the generous moisture in my eyes, I said, “œNo””the man that marries one of them has done an act of Christian charity which entitles him to the kindly applause of mankind, not their harsh censure””and the man that marries sixty of them has done a deed of open-handed generosity so sublime that the nations should stand uncovered in his presence and worship in silence.”

  120. “Yes, she is arguing that sister wives are needed because one man cannot meet her needs.”

    Well, that’s mighty narcissistic of her. Like she’s more important than anyone else?

    Oh, that’s right. Equality just ain’t part of the polygamy equation.
    ——————

    (Note to self: stop with the sarcasm.)

  121. ET, Beto is about 2 miles from his previous placement.

  122. I should post some quotes from the book later this evening that you would find interesting.

  123. Beto is located at 1391 FM 3328, Tennessee Colony, Texas 75880

  124. The Texas Monthly article on the WSJ trial is now online (for the October issue).

  125. I have sharable knives in the utility drawer. I’m not mean, just picky about my tools. And most people who eat my cooking don’t mind.

  126. I notice that amazon reviews of the book: the reviewers giving it 5 stars who give location are from Salt Lake City

  127. George Beto Unit History

    The George Beto Unit is a men’s prison of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice located in unincorporated Anderson County, Texas.

    The unit is located along Farm to Market Road 3328, 6 miles (9.7 km) south of Tennessee Colony. The prison, co-located with Coffield Unit, Michael Unit, and Powledge Unit prisons and the Gurney Unit transfer unit, has 20,518 acres of land.

    The unit opened in June 1980. It has the Correctional Institutions Division Region II Maintenance headquarters.

    The unit was named after George Beto, who served as a prison director. Perryn Keys of the Beaumont Enterprise said that Beto “has been described as a gladiator’s playground — a hardcore joint, even as prisons go.”

    Ricardo Ainslie, an author and a professor in the educational psychology department of the University of Texas, said that when he toured Beto with the warden, he was “scared shitless. ”

    Joyce King, author of Hate Crime: The Story of a Dragging in Jasper, Texas, said that Beto’s reputation as a “gladiator” prison stems from the fact that most of its prisoners are in their mid-20s, relatively young.

    Some inmates are at the equivalent of a 4th year high school student, and a few are near their 30s. King also said “The dubious distinction is also a warning—gladiators either fight because they must or because they like to.”

  128. Anyone who would give the Darger’s book 5 stars obviously has never read books of quality.

  129. http://www.texasmonthly.com/2011-10-01/feature4.php

  130. I think I’ll check it out at the library, no need to give money to Brooke.

  131. http://www.texasmonthly.com/2011-10-01/feature4.php

    Proud Texan said this on September 21, 2011 at 4:08 PM

    This an excellent article, hope everyone will read it, as I posted before would like to have copy delivered to every FLDS family so they can know the truth about Warren Jeffs. If there any FLDS or ex-FLDS please get your friends and relatives to read this article that PT posted the link for.

  132. On those Darger plyg book reviews, the five star reviews are all from people – who have only reviewed ONE book – this one.

    And they come off as advertisements for polygamy. Amazon allows unabashed fluffery from anyone, now does it? ha ha

  133. Katy Vine is a gal worth reading-I love her article titles- I was looking for that article last night, thanks for the link!

  134. http://www.keloland.com/videoarchive/index.cfm?VideoFile=110919pringle

    Things aren’t getting better in Pringle.

  135. Time to get UP to Speed..

    This is what Jeffs was readying for

    http://alamongordo.com/general/elenin-timeline/

  136. dear god, gotta love some doomsday predictions based on nothing. everybody get out your tinfoil hats!

    http://lunarscience.nasa.gov/articles/video-truth-about-comet-elenin here, breathe a sigh of relief or something.

  137. Is that compound in Pringle zoned for business? Maybe those living in that area should ask the county to provide a “frontage road” .

    What drowns out the noise of big boy toys in the night? Big boy bikes and the sounds of a big band. Sounds like it would be a great place to have an October fest. 🙂 Nice time of year for a ride on a bike. Could make it a charity event and involve groups from different states. It could be a 3 dayer.

    Most motorcycle groups bring the attention of LE. Not that they do anything wrong but mostly for safety reasons. What are ya gonna do when the roads are filled with bikes and cops?

    Bring a little jingle to Pringle.

    After the snow flies they can have a snowmobile run. ( or poker run as they are called in some areas) some little towns have all night “smokers” and once again the local LE are out in force. Not because anyone is doing anything wrong but for safety reasons.

    🙂

    Walton

  138. The Browns hit GMA today.

    Kody talks about the “special relationship” with each of the kids. My first thoughts were of Sara Hammon talking about the many children lining up to greet their father.

    Christine-talks about the wonderful world of Polygamy and how different they are from the Warren Jeffs group. The big differences between them and the Browns. (blah blah blah)

    Janelle speaks breifly about the law-suit and of course she refers any questions to their attorney J. Turley. (cough cough)

    I really wanted to like this family. But I don’t like liars or fakes. This “Brown family” are liars and fakes. Which is really dumb because they have an incredible history if they only told the truth.

    The also mentioned that while living in Utah they were living in one building with 3 apartments. And now while living in Nevada they all are living in seperate houses. Side note: years ago in order to qualify for assistance, people had to have a seperate cooking quarters from those they lived with.

    Kody is supposedly one man who is legally married to one person but supposedly is “spiritually married” to the other 3. When in fact he is married to one woman and also has 3 girlfriends.

    it was rather funny when Janelle was talking about how “outsiders” were asking if they had to sleep with their uncle.

    Janelles kids actually could call Kody Uncle. Janelles mother is supposedly married to Kody’s dad.

    I wanted to like them. But it is now Season three and they are still telling lies and so are the ones that were involved with the making of this show.
    Walton

  139. If any of you guys are people watchers, check out the body language of everyone including George S.

    🙂

    Some things you just can’t fake.

    I am glad that George asked a couple of questions that haven’t been asked of them before. Way to go George!

    Walton

  140. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52616222-78/jeffs-says-amy-flds.html.csp

  141. “I like spending time away from my husband” too, but that doesn’t mean that I want him to go off and start sleeping with my cousin and her twin sister.

    Hubby and I both smile as he heads off on a golf trip with his buddies for a few days. It works for both of us and it’s the perfect little break we both occasionally need and enjoy.

    Also, our method doesn’t produce dozens of children who become an inbred tangle of genealogy!

  142. “I know a guy who is getting strokes and he works sitting in a chair all day on the phone, but he is generally fit, a big hunter, has a weight room and has possibly used steroids.

    Another friend died of a heart attack at 48 who was working as an oil rig worker and fell ill in Egypt while on a BP job, came back and had his heart attack at the Doctors office waiting room.

    Stamp said this on September 16, 2011 at 9:13 AM ”

    Tip of the day, don’t befriend Stamp!

    Love ya Stamp … just kidding.

  143. “But 3C, it was illegal back then too. That’s what gets me about this crap. It is just as illegal as growing/selling marijuana. No one but a Utah paper is going to write and continue writing papers that waffle on polygamy. They have a book review of the Darger’s book claiming it is a “must buy” book on polygamy. In my opinion, it should lead to arrest warrants for people who are obviously breaking the law and now telling the world about it.

    Proud Texan said this on September 20, 2011 at 9:36 PM”

    PT, don’t let your BP get to the boiling point, but Utah still debates and glamorizes polygamy; it is a local event this week in Ogden and Salt Lake City, Utah. Please keep this in mind with the upcoming US Presidential election with Jon Huntsman and Mitt Romney running. They are both from UTAH and are MORMON and want to be the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. yikes.

    http://www.standard.net/stories/2011/09/16/bookmark

  144. “Amen, PT. Unfortunately, I will add to the royalties received by the Dargers because I will leave no stone unturned / unread in my complete study of mormon polygamy. I can’t help it, it is my heritage and I am condemned to attempt to understand it.

    Third Cousin said this on September 20, 2011 at 9:52 PM”

    I ditto Third Cousin’s remark with a bit of a change.

    Unfortunately, I will add to the royalties received by the Dargers because I will leave no stone unturned / unread in my complete study of Mormon polygamy. I can’t help it, I am condemned to read the latest BS propaganda published about it.

  145. “The info came from an email sent to the Court regarding a bench warrant issued for Warren to appear at his bigamy pretrial hearing on September 9. The only way for the court to get the info was to order him to appear that way the doctors would either have to send him or tell the court why he couldn’t appear. I doctors chose to tell the court via email. It arrived on September 8 and was read to the Judge while she was on the bench considering her options regarding the hearing. She wanted to have a video conference with Warren in lieu of his appearance and the doctor said that due to his blood clots he couldn’t sit up long enough to have a video conference, thus it was a phone conference. I’ve been told he was taken in a wheelchair to the location of the phone and the warden of the prison was with him throughout the conference.

    Proud Texan said this on September 21, 2011 at 1:19 PM”

    Thanks for the explanation, Proud Texan. Will he next have the excuse of a hangnail or a hair tangle? OOOPs NO on the hair tangle, since Warren is now bald-headed.

  146. “…oh, and my husband is perfectly capable of making a sandwich for himself when I’m out without bringing in a sex partner to do it for him.

    Betty said this on September 21, 2011 at 1:45 PM”

    Betty, you’re so darn funny and I just adore you! Thanks for posting your fabulous commonsense insight.

    I just have one question, though. Does your husband clean up the breadcrumbs from the kitchen counter after he made his own sandwich? Mine doesn’t. If yours does, please tell me your secret to get him to wipe off the counter without bringing in additional wives to handle that trivial task for him.

  147. My husband claims that women are genetically incapable of loading a dishwasher correctly.

    I am the one to leave breadcrumbs around…..

  148. Bravo, Katy Vine! Love the title (especially the alliteration):

    Non-Prophet
    A ringside seat at the surpassingly strange sexual assault trial of Warren Jeffs, who probably wishes he’d never come to Texas.

    Her Texas Monthly feature story is outstanding.
    ¨

    I enjoyed particulars of the first day of testimony since it was one I missed. Short but delightful descriptions of people, conversations and personal observations are peppered throughout her factual narrative of those bizarre proceedings. I enjoyed numerous chats with her in the gallery during breaks.
    ¨

    I liked this little passage:
    ————–
    He [Walpole] then explained that Jeffs saw Walpole’s role in biblical terms. “As Peter in the Garden of Gethsemane defended Jesus Christ,” he said, so was he attempting to defend a persecuted religious figure. (I heard someone gasp when he made this comparison, then realized it was me.)
    ————–
    ¨

    There was an incident during Warren’s questioning his only witness, acolyte J.D. Roundy, that I hoped to ‘hear’ her report beyond the following:
    …some of the questions put Roundy in danger of incriminating himself by way of bigamy statutes, and though the judge warned Roundy to think carefully before answering, he obeyed his leader.
    She didn’t describe the prosecutor asking the judge to dismiss the jury after which, in one of his most angry moments, he vented; he could not just sit by watching Warren quizzing his own witness and listen to him “throw him under the bus.”
    Just one of many bizarre moments.
    ¨

    And finally, I’m curious about this obscure observation:
    ————–
    But the most shocking evidence was still to come, much of it filed in the boxes (one of which bore the curious label “hard times underwear”) stacked in the row of seats behind the prosecution.
    ————–
    Yes, I’m curious what that “hard times underwear” label means. Anyone have a clue?
    ¨

    Anyway, KUDOS to KATY!

  149. Yeah Anon, but Rick Perry is also running and he has a good handle on the fact that sexual abuse of a child isn’t a religion. Of course if he forgets that fact, Drew Darby will be right there to remind him.

  150. Oops, that last one was me. For some reason my name was missing.

    PT

  151. “The jury members put on their earphones, and their already sour looks turned dark as the recording played. Some in the courtroom, hearing it by speaker, began to cry when the young girl replied to Jeffs’s questions in a meek, high voice.

    Others concentrated, listening for the moment when Jeffs called the girl by her full name. After the recording concluded, the state rested its case.

    All eyes gravitated to the defendant, sitting motionless at his table.”

    ———

    One of my favorite paragraphs. Thanks Katy, well written!

    http://www.texasmonthly.com/2011-10-01/feature4-3.php

  152. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2040428/Warren-Jeffss-child-bride-I-cried-wedding-dress-soaked.html

    preview: Anderson Cooper tonight

  153. One little error on Katy’s story, not to critique it, but to add to the creepiness of Jeffs – Rebecca left as I recall because Warren demanded of her not to be just “remarried”, but “remarried to HIM”!

    And all the nonsense he performed to make her submit is well worthy of a jail sentence alone IMHO.

  154. Chaps he also told her he would break her.

  155. I’m reading the “Answer them Nothing” book and enjoying it. I like how she is presenting a slightly different point of view of info I already know fairly well.

  156. According to that book, in the section on Ruth Stubbs, “breaking in” a new wife is a common terminology and frequently involves things like breaking contact with their family, refusing food, isolation, sleep deprivation, etc.

  157. Concerning husband and chores. He loads the dishwasher every night and unloads it in the morning, unless his work (which is mostly done from home on the computer) interferes. He is also very picky about the dishwasher loading. He almost never does the hand washing, or wipes the counters or cleans out the sink. He takes care of all the trash take out, pulls the big container to the curb, brings it back and puts liners back in the trash cans and he refills soap dispensers. He’s a terrible cook, in general, but he makes sandwiches, eggs, pancakes, burgers, salads. He is not a picky eater and praises my cooking regularly. He never complains if the house is a wreck. Almost never vacuums and I don’t think I’ve ever seen him with a mop in his hands. He cleans the shower walls with chemicals cause it gives me asthma, but he is immune to dirty toilets. He mows the lawn and rakes leaves. But he does not use a weed whacker nor does he ever pull a weed. He’ll water plants when I’m gone only if I leave very specific instructions in writing. He buys and maintains the bird feeders and he feeds the cats, but I give them meds and take them to the vet. He never pays bills, balances the check book, talks to the banker or the tax guy. He does not do the grocery shopping but he calls when he’s leaving work and asks if I need milk or something picked up on the way home. When my mother was living with us, he was an absolute saint and gave me breaks now and then so I could leave for the day. In short, he’s a man, but he’s definitely a keeper.

  158. Tonight at 10 pm Eastern, 9 pm Central, 8 pm Mountain, and 7 pm Pacific Time : Polygamy : What Love is This ? will feature Troy Bowles, ex AUB member, speaking out about polygamy from the standpoint of a philosopher.

    http://www.whatloveisthis.tv/stream/index.htm

  159. Chaps he also told her he would break her.

    Proud Texan said this on September 22, 2011 at 9:50 AM

    Guess Rebecca did her share of the breaking!

    Warren Jeffs is now as broken as you can get –

    not that he was ever working properly in the first place,..

  160. I am not surprised Brooke took a stroll on the “Pro Polygamy Wild Side” as that seems to be her bent on many a day.

    Glad she is no longer performing her apologist slant against those crimes and expect that lousy book to be her last stab at waving the plig flag and bragging about all its wonders.

  161. Betty, for cryin’ out loud, I thought this was a “let’s not do the plyg scene” blog! your hubby description could be used for an ad to attract lonesome plyggys!!….do you forgive me?? honestly!! ha-
    anyway, my poor dude croaked many a year ago, and I hate to say it, but I know he’d forgive me at this point anyway- he HATED household chores, was not good about em at all..not to mention, don’t mind me, girls and boys, I’m safe! (well, some would debate that)..seriously, I am one of those folks who’s happy walking the rest of the way “alone.” (’cause I ain’t ever alone, with the LOR , and I still have adult kids who say hi to me! (+ a bit more, actually)
    I think one of the reasons I keep watching the plygs is to see if any ever figure out what I have figured! I feel bad for all them there dames who are constantly told they gotta get married again (and again).. it’s SO peaceful on yer own, once you’ve had a rough time of it in a marriage.. for many of us out here. I hate to imagine how many of those really feel in such a system.. some must go from one ordeal to the next, all the while believing they have to live that way, or suffer the worst of everything. It just ain’t so.

    Seriously, it’s great to hear about people getting along well in a stable marriage these days.. I am dead serious as all get out. If this country doesn’t keep enough stable “monogs” around, we are all doomed. I am proud of my fellow citizens who weather the storms and are an example of what I still think most (who are honest) really believe- i.e., a good (dare I say traditional?) marriage will always be the bedrock of a strong and decent nation.

  162. that’s supposed to say the LORD up there, on my above post…(not LOR, Data’s evil alter-ego!)

  163. Mitt Romney running. They are both from UTAH and are MORMON and want to be the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. yikes.

    http://www.standard.net/stories/2011/09/16/bookmark

    Wrong, Mittt Romney is not from Utah, other than four years at BYU he never lived there. Romney was born in Michigan and was raised there. After Romney graduated from BYU, he received a law degree and a MBA from Harvard University. Romney then settled in the Boston, Massachusetts area. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitt_Romney

    That said, as a Texan, of course I lean towards our governor-Rick Perry, but if Perry doesn’t get Republican nomination, I would vote for Romney over President Obama.

  164. Hate to sound like a pessimist, I knew Wallace Jeffs in SLC many years ago, I doubt he will get his kids & his wives back from Lyle or WSJ.. I see his first wife Joanne divorced him 7 years ago .. I can’t tell him what to do, but he could try to get back with Joanne, since he has no family or kids,wives at this time, another he could do is talk to Bruce Wisan’s representative , Jethro Barlow, about trying to get a lot in CCA/ Hildale so he can be close to his kids, that would irk & upset WSJ & his cohorts, just some friendly advice from somebody who’s been exed other-Anon

  165. So… My husband use to be one of those, “my way is the right way, other people don’t have a clue” types. He’s mellowed quite a bit over the years, but he was pretty stubborn in his views when we got married over 20 years ago. He thought pets were a waste of time and money. He thought I spent too much time with friends and he disapproved of all the time I spent reading.

    Here is where my life diverges from the “Your Husband is your Lord and Master” crew. We now have a small farm with dogs, chickens, goats, a cat and a pet rabbit. I believe in eating the male goats in principle (the females are dairy goats), but can’t bring myself to do it. I am training my most recent little charmer to be a pack goat. My husband still shakes his head when he sees me walk off with the little guy in a training harness but doesn’t interfere. He helps me with the animals when I am out of town and I help him with his garden and pond. I spend a lot of time with my friends and I read when I have time.

    My husband has not only adjusted his views, he has come to appreciate at least some value in things he once rejected as frivolous.

    If I had been raised to believe I had to “submit” to my husband in all things, I would have been forced to live a very different life. I do not believe it would have been a positive change. He, also, would never have had his own prejudices challenged and would have missed out on a great deal. My friends and animals have enriched both of our lives. I have also earned a reasonable amount of money as a writer. There is no such thing as a writer who does not read. I’ve learned a lot from him as well, but I get to choose what to accept or reject. I do not control his personal choices. He does not control mine.

    Women who give up on their own dreams, who never get the opportunity to develop their own talents or indulge their own passions will never know what might have been. That is one of the great tragedies of this awful system. Oh, sure. They can each stand before the cameras and say, “I have learned to be more giving and selfless as a result of sharing my husband and my home with ten other women”, but so what? Selflessness is nice, but judging from interviews with supporters, it appears to be the only flower that blooms in that depleted soil.

    The image in my mind of women in that world is of an unwatered garden. Some good things grow unaided, but a great deal of beauty and promise is lost to needless deprivation.

  166. very nicely put, Jerrie

  167. btw, when I said, “traditional” all I meant was one guy- one gal marriage… I didn’t mean that a bunch of the old gender-based stereotypes for chores and livelihood need to be part of anybody’s home. I have seen a few homes where the gal was the main breadwinner as far back as the early 80’s…It’s hard to express what one really wants to say without the chance of sounding like a boor these days…oh well! words have changed in meaning, or they mean diff things to diff people, and certain perceptions have indeed changed about some critical things along the way.. Our country has become so very challenged with its divorce rate problems.. I saw an article that claimed the divorce rate has slowed down with the recession. I for one like that stat, if it’s true.. children need to not be subjected to divorce unless it’s absolutely best and needed. I am a child of one of the rare 1960’s divorces. I was fortunate to have a very dedicated grandmother (and what seemed to be a much more understandable world)– which took up more than enough slack left by the divorce

  168. Amen to what you said gretchen ! What you said about family values from the 80’s forward is, THINGS HAVE CHANGED , not always for the better ! Oh well I guess we are considered ” DINOSAURS ” from a different era , it’s hard to change ” DINOSAURS ” …………… other-Anon

  169. gretchen, I should point out that at this time of life, he works and I don’t. When we both worked, we hired a maid service. He also does things like plumbing, carpentry, tile work and other such things that I don’t do at all.

  170. And, now that I think about it, I have been married three times and he’s the only one who put a liner in the trash can, so maybe I have low standards. LOL.

  171. OK, I’ve read over your comments again, gretchen and I don’t get it. I think he’s awesome. He changed my mother’s diapers for heaven sake. He does all the laundry, mine included, every week for more than 15 years. He was real good with kid’s stuff like getting em to do homework and driving them places. He doesn’t pay the bills cause he sucks at it and I’m not willing to trust him with the credit reference. He doesn’t do weeding cause he can’t tell what’s a weed and what’s a kitchen herb and I never had the patience to teach him. What the heck do you want? Maybe in the younger generations the men are more equal in house work, I don’t know, but for a baby boomer, I think he does a great job of sharing the work. I’ve lived in communes, had two husbands, had room mates and he’s the most responsible person I’ve ever lived with. I’ve had really bad female room mates, too, I don’t know why folks assume just because the sister wife is a female that’s she going to be a hard worker.

  172. Betty,

    Your marital relationship sounds a lot like mine–not perfect but doing okay. I took Gretchen’s comment about your husband to mean that from an flds wife’s perspective he sounds good…that they’d like to get in on what you have. idk.

  173. I messed up, Betty! I WAS paying you and your husband a very big compliment! my humor ain’t much and I confuse people sometimes-I DID mean your hubby sounds EXCELLENT!! ” rnr” right above here expressed what I meant! I think Betty will forgive me.. YES, I meant that flds (and other) babes might kinda feel bad reading what some non-flds guys are like! compared to what other people go through with their marriages, too! Betty, he sounds really good to me-I DID mean plyg gals might get envious!! my own situation years ago was, well, NOT.. but then again, mine didn’t live long enough to get it together as he would have. I know that now.

  174. sorry, so sorry, betty, for my stupidity! I really mean it- I admire the things you say, as well as most others’ comments on this blog!

    I live alone most of time- I go overboard trying to get a laugh sometimes.

  175. I guess I should throw in that, while we’re on the subject, to be fair, I have heard the accounts by some grown former plyg kids that their dads were very good. Glad to hear those, sure, but I still will never agree with the marital “arrangement” anyway.

    I also think it’s terrible that flds (and other plyg females born into it) aren’t given the option to just not wed at all. And it’s terrible that so many young males are cast aside or have to leave on their own. Proves how dead-end the belief system and practice is.

  176. Is this sex bias?

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/22/justice/florida-sex-teacher/

    “A Florida judge cut short Thursday the probation of Debra Lafave, a former Tampa middle school teacher who six years earlier pleaded guilty to having sex with a 14-year-old boy, a state law enforcement official said.
    She originally was sentenced to house arrest. That was reduced to probation in July 2008, and was set to expire on November 15, 2015 — 10 years after she entered her plea — said Mark Cox, a spokesman for the Hillsborough County state attorney’s office.”

  177. other-Anon, from what I’ve heard Wallace got custody of the kids he had with Joanne when they divorced. Not sure where Joanne is now, but given that her maiden name is Bradshaw, it’s possible she’s a sister (or some kin) to FLDS attorney Jim Bradshaw.

  178. Wallace Jeffs wife Joanne’s maiden name was Thompson/Petersen, her stepfather I know , Walt Petersen, her mother’s maiden name was Deanna Bradshaw, no relation to Jim Bradshaw- different family residing in CPark ….Joanne’s mother was married to a man named Thompson, divorced, then Deanna married Walt Petersen, who is still an FLDS sheep …..

  179. Wrong, Mittt Romney is not from Utah, other than four years at BYU he never lived there.
    A Texan said this on September 22, 2011 at 12:43 PM

    Romney did move to Utah temporarily to run the 2002 Olympics after two top guys had 15 Indictments laid on them. My guess he lived there on and off for about 2-3 years. I lived there then and the great state of Utah saw him as their saviour to save the state from the black eye it had. Funny, I remember news footage showing him walking and talking with officials. I could have sworn there was a bright light from above shining on him. It will be interesting to see who wins in Utah in Repub primary between him and Huntsman.

  180. http://www.andersoncooper.com/episodes/wallace-jeffs-and-former-members-of-flds/

    Anderson show that aired today. some short clips… I don’t have TV at home, does anybody know if it will be online to watch in entirety? or if someone could DVR it and upload it or something? I’d be super grateful.

  181. I saw all the anderson cooper show about Wallace Jeffs & others today, cooper will aire another story on polygamy next thursday ,,,, That being said Wallace does have 3 daughters living with him, he’s naive about getting other wives, if he has 1 wife he’s further ahead than he realizes ! Of course he probably might join William Timpson/ Jessop & Willie R Jessop’s group if he really wants more , idk, if that doesn’t work , he could join with the Centennial Park either way he’s caught with hanging on to the cult religion, I hope he can break himself free of the cult ,,,,,,,,,, good luck Wallace ……………………other-Anon

  182. The ‘gotta have seven wives’ thing [to get to the highest heaven] was new to me. I know, over time, I’ve heard three…and that’s disputed by some former/current members as not really true. And it was interesting how he downplayed the ‘bleeding the beast issue’ with…everybody does it! [To me meaning those outside the cult] Like that makes it OK! IT was an interesting show and I’ll be sure to catch next weeks as well.

  183. LOL. OK! Gretchen and rnr. I like him.

  184. Maybe, chemist.

    Without researching a case in depth, I try not to second guess.

  185. Who is going to be on next week? I know that Brent Jeffs is going to be on Dr. Phil around the 27thish.

  186. What happened to WSJ’s ” BLOOD CLOTS ” ???? …………. other-Anon

  187. Probably blood thinners

  188. Betty @ September 22, 2011 at 11:02 AM

    Your hubby does indeed sound like a “keeper”. Mine is too; he does do the vacuuming, does mow the lawn, but wouldn’t know how to handle a rake.

    No way would he clean a toilet, mop a floor, pull a weed or tend to finances/bills.

    And all his life, food just magically appeared in the fridge and pantry. I keep a grocery list on the kitchen counter, but heaven forbid he writes it down that he ate the last of the potato chips and I should buy more on my next visit to the store. Oh well, he does pick up (and discard) the live (and dead) critters that our cat brings into the house. That’s important to me!

    I always clean the showers and use a Mr. Clean Miracle Eraser. It does an incredible job on the soap scum and crud, with no fumes whatsoever. But, maybe you don’t want to know that, so your hubby will continue with that chore – LOL.

    Aren’t we lucky to have kissed our share of frogs and finally found our princes!

  189. Wrong, Mittt Romney is not from Utah, other than four years at BYU he never lived there. Romney was born in Michigan and was raised there. After Romney graduated from BYU, he received a law degree and a MBA from Harvard University. Romney then settled in the Boston, Massachusetts area. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitt_Romney

    A Texan said this on September 22, 2011 at 12:43 PM

    I hate to argue with you A Texan, but Mitt Romney has a multi-milliondollar house in Deer Valley, just outside of Park City, UTAH, so he is considered a resident of Utah. He also took over the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympics after the payoff/bribe scandals were exposed. Yes, he was born in Michigan, but here he is considered a UTAH boy and owns a home in Utah !!!!

  190. Jerrie, I loved your comment “I do not control his personal choices. He does not control mine.” That says so much about a happy and healthy relationship, which we all deserve.

    BTW, how in the world do you cook a goat – if you would ever want to eat one? Yuck! Never mind!

    I like your new idea of training your little goat to become a pack animal a LOT better that dining on him. Your new endeavor sounds much more magical – and practical – for all concerned.

  191. other-Anon, from what I’ve heard Wallace got custody of the kids he had with Joanne when they divorced. Not sure where Joanne is now, but given that her maiden name is Bradshaw, it’s possible she’s a sister (or some kin) to FLDS attorney Jim Bradshaw.

    Proud Texan said this on September 22, 2011 at 5:14 PM

    PT, I don’t know of any relationship to Jim Bradshaw. I would think her relationship may be with Cyril Bradshaw.

  192. Anon @ 12:19, I was mistaken, her maiden name is Thompson. Her mother was a Bradshaw.

    But what is Jim’s relationship to Cyril?

  193. Break in the Susan Powell case

    Creeper Steve Powell, the FIL of the missing Susan, who claimed they “had a special relationship” is arrested for child pornography.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52628210-78/powell-steven-susan-county.html.csp

  194. 2 totally different families named Bradshaw , with that name , not related to each other, 1 family lives in SLC, Homer’s, they have a profit there,,,, CPark has Cyril Bradshaw , Jim’s dad , ?? & they have their own profit there …………. other-Anon

  195. Last thing I read about Wallace Jeffs ex-wife Joanne, she was living in Clark County, Nevada,,,, probably Las Vegas ………. other-Anon

  196. Anon at 11:15 PM

    What happened to WSJ’s ” BLOOD CLOTS ” ???? …………. other-Anon

    ============

    Prison food and exercise?

  197. Other-Anon, is JoAnn out of the cult completely?

  198. PT , as far as I know YES, JoAnn’s out ………… other-Anon

  199. What happened to his blood clots is that he will require medication for 3-6 months depending on the severity (extent and size of) the DVT

  200. I hate to argue with you A Texan, but Mitt Romney has a multi-milliondollar house in Deer Valley, just outside of Park City, UTAH, so he is considered a resident of Utah. He also took over the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympics after the payoff/bribe scandals were exposed. Yes, he was born in Michigan, but here he is considered a UTAH boy and owns a home in Utah !!!!

    Anonymous said this on September 22, 2011 at 11:37 PM

    As usual you show your ignorance, Romney was governor of Massachusetts, he never was a resident of Utah other than his time as a student at BYU. The house you refer to was a vacation home, never a permanent residence, it was also sold in 2009.

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=6091923

  201. Why I think that Mitt Romney will not get the Republican nomination is explained in this Texas Monthly article:

    http://www.texasmonthly.com/2011-09-01/feature7.php

  202. Wallace Jeffs said to A. Cooper : a flds man must have at least 7 wives to get to heaven, I was never taught that ! LeRoy Johnson & Rulon Jeffs taught all of us including Wallace, there was not an amount or rules on how many a flds man could have,,,, always 1 to start, sometimes 1, sometimes more, apparently WSJ has sought to rewrite the words of his father & Le Roy Johnson …. I know flds men in Short Creek who only have 1 wife, been that way for many years & will probably NOT change , so there’s no rule or amount set in stone !

  203. mmmmmm….curried goat.

  204. I think it’s a mistake to assume that Perry will have the same popularity elsewhere that he has in Texas, although deep coffers does help. The Republican party may be swept up in Tea Party euphoria, but they realize that it’s really a small group of independent swing voters that control the Presidential elections, because the extremists are too evenly matched. I think that the selection of the Republican candidate is still very much up for grabs and I think Romney has a good chance because he is more moderate. And he’s tall and has nice hair, also.

    History shows that what it looks like this early is so rarely how it actually plays out.

  205. Sad, that one has to have good hair and be good looking nowadays to become president, but I guess that’s how it is since the day of TV and a good voice since radio.

  206. I think we should get off of & over the politics debates & kicks some of you are on . Imo ALL politicians are CORRUPT ! We don’t have statesmen any more, just POLITICIANS ! I know it may sound depressing to talk about flds stories here . what’s the name of this website ? texasflds.wordpress.com & stop addressing politics on this website.

  207. So where does Wallace pull the number 7? Interesting the prior number is 3.
    Those are “magical” or pagan numbers aren’t they?

  208. Polygamy has been involved in politics since Abraham Lincoln

    “Slavery and Polygamy – twin relics of barbarism”

    A. Lincoln

  209. I don’t care what Abraham Lincoln said about polygamy & politics, we’re not living in the 19th century, we’re living in the 21st century , that’s good history , but right now history is being made with WSJ’s conviction , sentencing & looooong prison term .

  210. Such horrific news has an impact on politicians, depends on how closely related.

    So far, the convictions when considered by the public give Perry a lift, and not so much for Mitt and Jon.

    But the average voter doesnt even know half the details or drama.

  211. BTW a poster on the Trib has said Warren is in the Beto unit.

    Handle – Betocop

  212. Rulon Jeffs taught in highly secret circles that there were 3 quorums of wives. The 1st with 3 wives, the 2nd with 5 wives and the 3rd with 7 wvies. I heard him say on more than one occasion that 2 wvies did not count as a quorum or could get an elder into the celestial kingdom. In order to get into the celestial kingdom a man needed to have the 1st quorum and enable to get to the highest degree he needed to have the 3rd quorum of wives. This was taught by Rulon in very closed and secret circles. It was kept quiet as it would create an insane amount of panic if he ever taught it publicly. If one looks back there was a time when Rulon was hurrying to get many of his sons and others close to him ilivng with the 1st quorum. Those that are familiar with his family can look back and notice an almost rushed pace to find and force girls into marriages to his sons and other prominent men living in Salt Lake at the time.

  213. So, this is a Rulon addition, and not a real tenant of the faith? Or…just an excuse to have more and more young girls concubines? I can see why he kept it secret….

  214. Greed comes in many forms. If my neighbor has 3 wives, I must have 4… then 5, then 6…. Like the old cattle barons, rounding up their herd to show what ‘wealth’ they control.

  215. All this “quorom” talk is nuts. It is beyond me that anyone can think the number of wives a man has equates some level of eternal security. Heaven is a gift – a work of grace that none of us earn. John 3:16 says it all. How have these people been so duped for so long?

  216. The problem with what Rulon taught and/or invented is that the FLDS and now more recently, Will Timpson (Jessop) and his group, will still try to hold on to it and try to live it. The problem is that not many adult girls these days want live in a plural wife situation, so these groups will find that they have to marry the girls at a younger age 14-16 to get them to go into these familes as plural wives. So these groups will have secret societies inside of them where the elite men are getting the wives they need to supposely qualify for the celestial kingdom, while the main portion of the followers will never be taught or know of the existance of the secret societies in these groups.

  217. In the book “Favorite Wife”, by Susan Ray Schmidt, her husband talked about how important it was to have 7 wives. And part of the reason he did not want her to leave is that it would take him down to 6. But I don’t remember any explanation. That was Lebaron group.

  218. http://bankingonheaven.com/ Everytime I watch this show, I see and hear something different. Laurie and Dot did a fantastic job imo.

    So many of today’s issues stem from years before Warren took charge. Warren was the con man that took hold of a group already being scammed imo.

    CPark formed in the 80’s. Some are still trying to lay claim on properties left 30 years ago. Had they not been forced to leave/ asked to leave/ left on their own, some of them would be standing behind those walls of the YFZ imo.

    Mr. Hammon said he would gladly take 16 wives if that is what the Prophet chose for him. And the young teens interviewed said that it would be their “choice” if that is what the Prophet chose for them.

    A long time ago I read a story about a young girl growing up surrounded by abuses in Polygamy. She was asked how it could continue to go on and her reply was …. because it can.
    Walton

  219. From mormonfundamentalism.com : “Warren Jeffs (and other Mormon “fundamentalists”) believe that the more wives they marry in mortality, the greater their eternal reward. Lorin Woolley appears to have been the first to discuss this idea. In 1932 he taught: “To be the head of a Dispensation, 7 wives [are] necessary. [To be the head of] the Patriarchal Order must have 5 wives. [To be] President of the Church – 3 wives [are necessary].”[18] Warren Jeffs is said to have more than seventy wives and it is known that he married several of his father’s (Rulon Jeffs) wives shortly after his father’s death in 2002.[19] The Allreds,[20] LeBarons,[21] Kingstons,[22] and essentially all fundamentalists seem to hold true to this notion.[23]

  220. Those fundamentalists who aspire to having 7 wives are seeking to be the leaders of a dispensation. Examples of leaders of dispensations in the past would include Moses, Jesus, and Joseph Smith.

  221. Simple math will prove that with about 50% girls and 50% boys being born, then for each elite member of the FLDS secret society to get to the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, they must run off 6 of their male youth. If any girls run away during their teenage years so they don’t have to have a forced, arrainged marriage, then one boy must be sent away for each girl that runs away….. Do the math

  222. The Mormon fundamentalist teaching that multiple wives are required in order for men to qualify for leadership roles in the church is certainly not Biblical – see what qualifications the New Testament has for leaders of the church :

    1 Timothy 3

    Qualifications for Bishops and Deacons

    1Here is a trustworthy saying: If anyone sets his heart on being an bishop,a he desires a noble task. 2Now the bishop must be above reproach, THE HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE, (GREEK TEXT TRANSLATES AS : A ONE WOMAN MAN), temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him with proper respect. 5(If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?) 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. 7He must also have a good reputation with outsiders, so that he will not fall into disgrace and into the devil’s trap.

    8Deacons, likewise, are to be men worthy of respect, sincere, not indulging in much wine, and not pursuing dishonest gain. 9They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. 10They must first be tested; and then if there is nothing against them, let them serve as deacons.

    11In the same way, their wives are to be women worthy of respect, not malicious talkers but temperate and trustworthy in everything.

    12 A deacon must be the HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE (IN GREEK TEXT : A ONE WOMAN MAN) and must manage his children and his household well. 13Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.

  223. #
    Rulon Jeffs taught in highly secret circles that there were 3 quorums of wives.
    …. etc.,….
    Those that are familiar with his family can look back and notice an almost rushed pace to find and force girls into marriages to his sons and other prominent men living in Salt Lake at the time.

    Anonymous said this on September 23, 2011 at 1:57 PM
    ——————-

    Anon, Would you email me, please? …… gadestring AT aim DOT com
    Being very “familiar with his family,” I would like to discuss your comments further with you. It’s an important issue for me.

  224. I have heard several former flds and a couple other former polyg group people state that they definitely never heard about the doctrine of grace through faith in Christ while in polygamy. It simply was not a teaching that the influential adults in their lives were interested in mentioning, or that anyone even seemed familiar with. Polygamy and obeying whoever was group leader was the constant refrain.
    In fact, I think I have also heard that the cross of Christ is some kind of shame to mention in the lds church. I have also heard that Salt Lake leadership insists that kind of thing is not so, but it seems to me that grace freely offered isn’t properly taught at all, if the leadership is going to also insist that members can avail themselves of Christ’s redemption IF they also throw in that it’s “after all we can do.” That’s flat-out personal effort salvation, no two ways about it. There’s no way a person can rest mentally, physically, or emotionally, as far as I can see, in any brand of mormonism. A person has to perpetually dedicate themselves to several prescribed activities, in every mormon’s description of their lives that I have ever heard. I’d never make it, trust me. I desperately need the grace of Calvary and the LORD’s promises. I’d just never make it any other way, and am very glad I was not born into any tyoe of works-based belief system.

    I have noticed that former lds who present programs on radio, internet, etc, who become evangelical Christians, often wear an easily-visible cross with their outfits on their programs. It’s a symbol of relief and true hope that they all say they never really had within mormonism, or they would not have left lds.

  225. There are some really rude and cranky people on this GENERAL DISCUSSION thread today.

  226. When will they ever learn that you need a driver’s license and vehicle insurance?

    BARLOW, MORONI JESSOP
    Birth Date: 06/09/54
    Address : 865 N CANYON ST, Hildale, UT
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    16:24:00 09/21/11 Johnson, Wade SGPD

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    WARRANT-CASH WARRANT-CASH ONLY BM WCJ7 875.00 875.00
    41-12A-303.2 NO PROOF OF INSURANCE BM WCJ7 400.00 400.00
    41-12A-603 SUSPEND OR REVOKED RE CM WCJ7 100.00 100.00
    53-3-227(2) DL SUSPEND/NON DRUG O CM WCJ7 300.00 300.00

  227. Oh yeah, and one is supposed to also register their vehicle annually.

    BARLOW, WILLIAM EPHRAIM
    Birth Date: 03/13/68
    Address : PO BOX 2437, Mesquite, NV
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    13:35:46 09/19/11 Adams, Jeffrey HCPD

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    WARRANT-CASH WARRANT-CASH ONLY BM ICJ2 900.00 900.00
    41-1A-1303(1)ii EXPIRED REGISTRATION/ CM WCJ3 40.00 40.00

  228. Oh my, it looks like some of Jeremy Johnson’s stuff is going on the auction block tomorrow to help reimburse some of his scammed victims.

    And for the earlier Anon whining about the subject matter – Jeremy Johnson was very involved with the ex-FLDS teenagers and is prominent in the Sons of Perdition documentary about 3 FLDS Lost Boys.

    Judge puts St. George millionaire’s planes, boat, classic cars up for sale

    HURRICANE — Peppy planes, classic cars and a boat named “Animal House” are among the big boy toys once belonging to a St. George millionaire that a federal judge has ordered to be put up for sale.

    The Federal Trade Commission seized millions of dollars in assets from Jeremy Johnson and his company iWorks as part of its case against him alleging Internet marketing fraud. FTC attorneys say Johnson bilked online consumers of $275 million by charging their credit cards for services they didn’t sign up for.

    Read more:
    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705391300/Judge-puts-St-George-millionaires-planes-boat-classic-cars-up-for-sale.html

  229. mmmmmm….curried goat.

    Betty said this on September 23, 2011 at 10:29 AM

    Well, if I were to ever eat goat meat, having it in a curry sauce would probably be my preference.

    And to the whining Anon earlier, this comment IS on topic because it indirectly relates to the fact that FLDS little girls are often made to “marry” old goats.

  230. Does anyone remember the big he man talk Jeremy had with the boys about doing dope and breaking the law? He just wouldn’t have any of that law-breaking or law-breakers in his house. No way no how. Their drug problems were in excusable, I think he said. Tossed them out.

    The man had 4 helicopters. I don’t think John Travolta even has 4 helicopters. I wonder if they are on the auction line?

    and the whole fly when I want where I want no matter what the law says attitude? After gettting the once for from those in charge, he did the woe is me, said he was sorry and turned around and said he’d do it again.

    imo he is a danger to society in the air and on land. jmo

    Walton

  231. Judge puts St. George millionaire’s planes, boat, classic cars up for sale…

    My US Marshal friend does that here. She said there’s lots of ” interesting stuff ” she seizes and then auctions off. I’ll bet Johnson has lots of intersting stuff, too! I’m sure he bought lots of stuff with what we refer to as…OPM…other people’s money!

  232. Interesting article. I wish I could have attended this lecture.

    Authors of histories of polygamy in both the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints documented Monday how views of members of the FLDS Church changed as media continued to report on the effects of an April 2008 raid of their Eldorado, Texas, compound.

    and later….

    Foster said faithful members cannot read newspapers, watch television, listen to the radio or go onto the Internet. He said: “I hate to use the word brainwashed, but let’s say they have gone through an extensive conditioning.”

    http://www.standard.net/stories/2011/09/20/authors-speak-about-flds-raid-and-its-consequences-public-perceptions

    Walton

  233. Could it be WSJ was drugging his father & told him to talk about quorums, secret marriages, etc, remember some one said recently that Rulon told WSJ to quit marrying all those young girls to him , could it be that WSJ was using his father through drugs , there are others who believe that, so I’m not alone in that thinking. If WSJ drugged his father , he would have been at the mercy of WSJ , remember Rulon has various physical ailments & WSJ is an opportunist , he may have been drugging Rulon for years ,why not control his father through the use of drugs to get what WSJ wants: power , control, manipulation of flds people , I think WSJ used his father no end & he’ll use the flds people to further his meglomania, he’s a USER & will always be one .

  234. Several people have suggested that Warren had Rulon drugged into a stupor or the resemblance of dementia. But I don’t think we can assume that Rulon was innocent or that he had no revelations of his own.

  235. I would be interested in knowing which drugs were used to drug Rulon into his altered mental status – if someone was able to provide names of specific drugs.

  236. perhaps Warren will try this logic next!

    http://www.explosm.net/comics/2555/

  237. I do know from Rulon who told me so, at a certain height in airplanes he would pass out, he had trouble keeping his balance ( equilibrium ) he had an enlarged heart ( heart trouble) & he had a stroke in the late 90’s , how bad idk, & that’s just the ones I know about , he may have had other physical ailments besides those mentioned above , take your pick on knowing which drugs/meds WSJ had him on causing altered mental status and/or dementia then tell the rest of us, GOOD LUCK on finding that information !

  238. Anon, 11:06 PM, could you say about when it was – what year – Rulon told you about passing out at a certain height in airplanes?

    Actually, Rulon’s first stroke was in the 70s, which is when Warren was named principal of Alta Academy, taking his father’s place in that position. From then on he had his father under his thumb. He also had his mother’s help running interference in her son’s behalf — and in ways you’d hardly believe. Between his son Warren, and his wife Merilyn, Rulon would never again be the same man I knew before that first stroke.

  239. EJay , Rulon told me about passing out in airplanes, at his office in SLC – year was 1985, of course, he may have had it before that time ? IDK .

  240. Brooke Adams got the SLTRIB to post a puff piece on her Darger rag, I recon its worth a read and a comment!

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/entertainment/52631194-81/adams-dargers-family-love.html.csp?page=2

  241. So Rulon had an enlarged heart (cardiomyopathy) and had multiple strokes (cerebrovascular disease). There are many medications for the treatment of both these conditions which have negative side effects on cognition, such as beta blockers and anti hypertensive medications.

  242. beta blockers have a bad affect on cognition?

  243. They can in some people, Betty, not all.

  244. Here is an article on anti cholinergic medications and their effects on cognition – perhaps Rulon experienced side effects from some of these medications ? :

    http://www.scribd.com/share/upload/61239368/1l6v61k3zh7iknqaa1e5

    Beta blocker article to be posted later.

  245. Here is an article on the neuropsychological effects of beta blockers – there is only an abstract, I will have to search for more in depth material for you later :

    http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/149/3/514

  246. BIB ,those articles are good but whats needed a summary of how the affected Rulon Jeffs personally, without all of that exhaustive reading of article , how does it relate to Rulon , summarize for me ?

  247. Thanks, BiB. That doesn’t seem too scary, not like “causes Alzheimer’s” kind of scary.

  248. strange dreams. Some old people under extreme stress (like surgery) have actually had hallucinations, seen bugs crawling all over the walls. Very rare. Some depression but not clearly more than a placebo.

  249. These articles list some of the commonly prescribed medications which cause changes in mental status in the elderly. I have no idea IF he was taking any of these, but these are some of the agents which cause changes in mental status in the elderly. Please note that having a history of stroke(s) is a risk factor for developing an altered mental status (or even dementia) in the elderly in and of itself.

  250. Rulon’s strokes started, at the very least, when he was in his sixties, resulting in observable changes to those close to him (not necessarily everyone in the congregation). He wasn’t terribly incapacitated at first. Along with taking prescribed drugs, he was also into alcohol on a daily basis. Add to that a likely possibility that drugs other than those prescribed by his doctor may have been in that mix. I say “likely” and “may” because I can’t prove it.

  251. My dad had TIA.s He also had consumptive heart failure. The mental problems were striking but not at all like my mother’s Alzheimer’s. He would be at a particular level and stay there indefinitely. Then he would say he “fell” or he “had a dream” and his cognitive ability would change significantly and permanently. He lost memory and ability to do complex logic and make judgments. One day he was talking about politics, taking care of his checkbook and making jokes and the next day he did not know where he was. It did not come and go like Alzheimer’s; i.e. there were no good days or bad days, no moments of being lucid. It seemed to me like his mind was a building and a light bulb would pop or a fuse would blow and then that hall way would be dark for ever. Then nothing would change until another light bulb popped. Sometimes he lost motor function or had slurred speech. Finally he became incontinent. Then he lost the ability to swallow. He went from his first “fall” to the grave in about 10 months.

  252. I think Rulon had to give up alcohol because it was ruining his health, but was on meds after that, & who knows what WSJ & his mother may have been mixing in with those meds likely something not prescribed for Rulon or increased his dosage over the years,possibly overdosed him ! I do know that some if not all of Rulon’s sons brewed beer & wine , whether they do still ? idk .

  253. Nobody knows if Rulon later in life & near death lost his cognitive abililties, he may have lost those abilities through meds, can any of us say he didn’t ? NO ! We’re not doctors ! He probably was on IV sometime before he died, probably lost all his bodily functions, the ability to eat food , maybe WSJ likely pumped a lot of meds into Rulon , it’s possible .

  254. “…consumptive heart failure….” – There is no such disease. You mean congestive heart failure ( a form of cardiomyopathy, meaning disease of the heart muscle).

    Sounds as if some people believe that WSJ was drugging his own father, possibly intravenously.

  255. you’re right, BiB. My mind was playing “sounds like” and being imprecise.

  256. Actually at least one of us IS a doctor. But without being there to collect real information, it’s all speculation.

  257. Sounds as if some people believe that WSJ was drugging his own father, possibly intravenously.

    Born in Brooklyn said this on September 24, 2011 at 10:25 PM

    If this was the case, then maybe it was “presumptive” heart failure and Betty was half right – lol

  258. Until WSJ confesses from prison he used & uses people ,including Rulon, we’ll never know completely , yes it maybe speculation, but we do know WSJ’s a megalomaniac : delusions of power ,etc , check your dictionary on definition . It will be a long time if ever when WSJ confesses he’s an opportunist or his sins, maybe God will hear them, & forgive him, but I don’t have to !

  259. Polygamy problems in the UK :

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2041244/Polygamy-Investigation-Muslim-men-exploit-UK-benefits-system.html

  260. WSJ DID confess to being a fraud once before, so maybe he will eventually come clean again. It is a shame the people were not strong enough to accept that in-jail confession. Too fearful of a collapse of their belief system?

  261. 100,000 lbs a year for a housing allowance? Man, that’s some expensive welfare! OMG. That’s crazy.

  262. Two -plus years ago I was working for a men’s homeless shelter. One of the men would carry his gold-embossed Koran around the place..anyway, one night around 3 AM the phone rang, a woman ID -ing herself as his wife, asking how he was, etc. I told her I would give him the message in the AM.

    At 7 AM, he comes past the window, and I said, “Your wife called in the middle of the night. She just wanted to see how you are.” I tried to make a bit of small talk, as I thought it was the woman who had come to the place to see him a couple days before during a Sunday meal. I said, “She’s cute, etc.” (although she had a burka on, what I could see of her face. and size.) He answered, “Oh, the one that called wasn’t the one who was here Sunday. I have three wives.” .. a bit more was said by me and him, I reminded him that polygamy is illegal in all 50 states, he said it was his religion, etc. Anyway, one of the reasons men could be ejected from the shelter was for lying during intake. I called the supervisor to tell her that he had brought up that he “had three wives,” then boss said, “well, there’s nothing we can do,” and I said, “that’s not my point,” and I said, “what are the chances this guy has no place to live, although he is involved with three adult women and has kids with at least two of them?” I heard soon after that he was not in the shelter anymore but I didn’t learn the reason. Guys came and went frequently, knowing the Salvation Army a bit better now, I would imagine it was another reason, but who knows. We were turning people away that needed a shower and a bed because the intake had to be approved by Friday afternoons and nothing done on weekends with paperwork. Volunteers were in tears at how many open beds we had all the time, not agreeing with the policy. Many delays happened because applicants had to get cleared as safe before admittance.

    I didn’t last at the place. Butted heads with “the Major” a couple weeks later.
    Asked a few questions that made people upset, people who shouldn’t have been upset by the questions, if the place had been run better and people had had more experience outside of that small facility.

  263. Even if Warren were to confess, it would have to get past the guards of the sheeple before it was heard by them.

  264. Your heart is a lump of coal, gretchen. Where is your humanity?

  265. Your heart is a lump of coal, gretchen. Where is your humanity?

    Anonymous said this on September 25, 2011 at 12:59 PM

    HUH???

  266. my heart is a lump of coal? oh yes, yea, verily, black and deep, dark as a stormy, hopeless, bitter-cold winter night, no doubt-.. for asking the supervisor about the three wife thing? (or for some other disastrous observations that I vocalized?)
    I know- I know– trust me, I am absolutely a true, total mess. -and you should have seen the director at that place (not “the major”–and not the boss I talked with- but yet another, non-uniformed professional who was the grant request writer, etc., with a couple degrees.) I could tell you more- but hey, working at that shelter, I learned several things I never knew before- as in, some shelter guys were well-known in the area, had exasperated people who had been working at the other local shelters, in some cases, for years.) I was only there five weeks, part-time, and I was not fired- I quit, because my aches and pains were being aggravated by the tension and stair-climbing, and for the double standard that was becoming clearer- I was doing a good job, and the place had problems before they hired me. I believe they changed a couple things as a result of my remarks that I made just before I quit. The boss I told about the three wifery deal admitted to me that one problem I asked about had been brought to the place’s attention before and nothing had been done. It’s water under the bridge- I was on my last legs in the “working world” when I got hired there.

    Now, I spend every single waking moment, and every fitful night, too, repenting in hopeless remorse for my foul, grinch-like, Ebenezer Scrooge soul…

  267. http://www2.canada.com/nanaimodailynews/news/story.html?id=5454783

    article on labor of young men in bountiful

  268. I’m just guessing that gretchen’s heart was more concerned with the people who actually needed the beds. I’m thinking if you can afford three wives and live in a shelter, then you could afford to have just one and live in your own home. Don’t make the rest of us pay for your sexual excesses!

  269. I worked in a domestic violence shelter and I was amazed at the inefficiency and the political infighting of the people running it. I know, I know, they are human, too. I was just thinking college educated people who chose careers of caring for others would be above that sort of thing. They liked me and I kept my mouth shut, but they kept changing my schedule and I eventually quit because of that.

  270. Gretchen, since you seem to like religious questions, what’s your opinion on subject of “Book of Mormon”?

    Here are some articles that present the LDS viewpoint on subject:

    http://lds.org/ensign/2011/10/common-questions-about-the-book-of-mormon?lang=eng

    http://lds.org/ensign/2011/10?lang=eng

    IMO we should respect the religious books of other religions such as the Qur’an, Torah, and Book of Mormon, even if we don’t accept them as part of our religious beliefs.

    Here’s an example on the new recognized Bible being used by the Southern Baptists: http://www.sbc.org/resolutions/amResolution.asp?ID=1140

    http://www.mystudybible.com/

    Here’s the recognized Bible in the LDS Church for comparison:

    http://lds.org/scriptures/bible?lang=eng

  271. Betty, I used to work in a shelter for women several years ago. My heart was broken for broken women, but after years of seeing so many “takers” who deceived and got in and took what the truly needy needed, I began to burn out. The system was disappointing and far from perfect.

  272. Your heart is a lump of coal, gretchen. Where is your humanity?

    Anonymous said this on September 25, 2011 at 12:59 PM

    I disagree Anon @ 12:59 PM. Gretchen has no lack of humanity; she is the essence of humanity (and common sense) IMHO. I think you are an absolute jerk for the comment you made @ 12:59 PM. Where is YOUR humanity????

  273. I’m just guessing that gretchen’s heart was more concerned with the people who actually needed the beds. I’m thinking if you can afford three wives and live in a shelter, then you could afford to have just one and live in your own home. Don’t make the rest of us pay for your sexual excesses!

    Betty said this on September 25, 2011 at 4:06 PM

    A BIG Amen to that thought.

    Betty, I used to work in a shelter for women several years ago. My heart was broken for broken women, but after years of seeing so many “takers” who deceived and got in and took what the truly needy needed, I began to burn out. The system was disappointing and far from perfect.

    an older anonymous said this on September 25, 2011 at 6:30 PM

    And another BIG Amen to that thought. I have found, over the years, that people with a “sense of entitlement” will play the system and “agency shop” because they think they are entitled to do that.

  274. This week on Dr. Phil

    http://www.drphil.com/shows/

  275. Ah, the stories I could tell of those patients I have met who abuse the social welfare system….you would be shocked.

  276. This just in from Canada :

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/life/Journey+from+Bountiful+Sundre/5454819/story.html

  277. A. Texan, Thanks for your links on the Study Bible and the Holman Bible Resolution. I agree that it is more Christian to refrain from disparaging comments about Books considered sacred by other religions. I also try to not make disparaging remarks about the beliefs of other people, as long as those beliefs do not lead to illegal practices under the guise of religion.

  278. The shelter I was working at is in a very rural area, an hour’s drive from any other shelter. Small towns send people there from an even larger radius because they have more space than most places. In my experience, getting help in a rural setting takes more determination and is of itself kind of a screening mechanism. I was not there that long, maybe 6 months. I did not see anybody scamming the system. However, a lot of the women had drug and/or alcohol problems, and various behavior problems. They were not allowed phones and very limited phone calls and their legit meds had to be locked up and taken under observation. Some of them went to a lot of trouble to get to a phone and call a relative (or a drug dealer), tell them exactly where they were and then that person would call the abuser. I even had the girl’s parents call the husband and tell him where she was. This is without the force of the prophet. There were also a few women there who were so annoying that, God forgive me, if I had to spend a week with them I probably would have slapped the snot out of them, also. But I was mostly disappointed by the professionals. I’m guessing in an urban setting, the dynamic would have been different. But it’s really easy to get burned out.

  279. Born In Brooklyn said this on September 26, 2011 at 9:46 AM: This just in from Canada :

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/life/Journey+from+Bountiful+Sundre/5454819/story.html

    Great article. Thanks for the link.

  280. Interesting comment about the Southern Baptist convention preferring one bible over another. Most of my family (ok, ALL of my family but me) is Southern Baptist. None have switched Bibles as far as I know in the last 10 years and I don’t think any have the one mentioned. They all like different versions and all read whatever pleases them. Some will read same text with many different versions in one sitting if they feel the need to.

    I agree Chemist, I try not to make judgments least I be judged. That is very very hard to do. However, I didn’t read any comment above that struck me that someone was doing that. 20 years ago I did explain to someone considering the Mormon faith that salvation is a gift and not earned based on what I have read in the Bible. They heard something very different from the Mormon group he had been visiting with. There are definitely parts of the Bible that the Mormon faith have “rewritten” with BOM or just explained away and this is one of them. I guess I am having a harder time accepting a “religion” that rewrites parts of the Bible and then still use Jesus in the name of their religion than I do with Muslims, Buddhist, and Hindus.

    Gretchen, you are a Saint in my mind that you even tried to help out at a homeless shelter. I have never attempted to do that.

  281. The new wave in political correctness : teaching girls in school that polygamy is ok is not to be questioned :

    http://www.wsbtv.com/news/29284189/detail.html

  282. That’s bizarre, BiB! Wonder where that came from? Who thought that was a good idea? “The advantages of wearing a Burqa”????? Wearing a Burqa is as extreme for Mulsims and the clothing of the FLDS is for us. So some radical Islamic person is creating lesson plans in rural Georgia? Odd.

  283. FYI , Dr. PHIL will be having Joe Darger on his show today with his wives, tomorrow he will have Willie Jessop & Wednesday will be having Willie & the wife of a former flds member on his shows, don’t forget to tune in ……………………. other-Anon

  284. That really was a good article out of Canada. I am glad that there are people who stand up and say something.

    I saw the Dr. Phil show today and I thought it went well imo. Everyone has the right to tell their story. Face to face, writing a book, going on tv whatever.

    Dr. Phil I thought was very professional and he asked some really good questions.

    Joe Dargers chidren are brother and sisters and also cousins, and the some of the mothers are not only mothers but Aunts to the other children and one mother is a cousin to her own step children.

    One of the things that always seems to come out is the fact that many people were raised with the fear of being caught, they had to hide, called names etc. And they chose the very same path for their kids. Why?

    Supposedly their faith ruled against the practice of Polygamy. So they really can’t use that line. Joe said he wishes to call the women his wives. They aren’t his wives. He has one legal wife and the rest and any more joining are mistresses. Sleepovers. Girlfriends.

    The Dargers know that Shurtleff wasn’t/isn’t going to charge them with anything and yet they used the fear factor card to put in their vote for decriminalizing polygamy. Dr. Phil stated that he is friends with Mark Shurtleff. That is one part of the story that I would like to know more about.

    I hope they never decriminalize Polygamy.

    I enjoyed the show. And the next two days are going to be really good. People have tried to lie to Dr. Phil and he catches them at it and he lets them know right then and there. 🙂 He is a busy man he doesn’t have time for much bs. It is going to be good.
    Walton

  285. What kind of questions did Dr Phil ask ?

  286. Ariel – phone home!!!

  287. Still here. Not fit for public consumption, plan to be soon. Thanks to those that are.

  288. On some TV stations they repeat it the next day, BIB check & if your local station has a repeating episode of it or you can can check Dr. Phil.com & maybe view it ……………… other-Anon

  289. “I have found, over the years, that people with a “sense of entitlement” will play the system and “agency shop” because they think they are entitled to do that.” Anonymous said this earlier.

    That is one of my pet peeves. What has happened in this country for this kind of thing to become so prevalent? It is a stumbling block in the race relations improvement struggles. It has to be what holds back the development of motivation for many because they feel they “deserve” special breaks. It is particularly troublesome to see this in young people today. Not saying there is not a place for help to those facing needs beyond their control, but planning a way to “work the system” and that becoming of way of life really stinks.

    I will never forget during Christmas one year when a client came into our office saying her children wouldnt even have stockings. I had a staff working hard to fill those empty stockings with age appropriate toys and clothing. And after giving it to her, just a few days later happen to hear that she had received bountiful goods from several other agencies where she had told the same story. Then to top it all, I ran into her in a Walmart and she had the biggest buggy of toys and an older child pushing another one behind her. I would say that was when I began to doubt the effectiveness of our system.

  290. Betty, I agree completely this is very odd. Just one small correction to your comment. Cobb County, Ga is not rural. It is a major portion of the Atlanta metro area with a very high population.

  291. What kind of questions did Dr Phil ask ?

    Born in Brooklyn said this on September 26, 2011 at 8:09 PM

    One of the things Dr.Phil touched on was the legality of the practice. Joe said that in his opinion it is all hanging on a word. Wives. If he were to stop calling his “wives” as such there wouldn’t be an issue with the law. He would be living with one legal wife and 2 girlfriends. When people get married legally they gain that right to call each other husband or wife. jmo

    And my thought was: So why pretend they are your wives when they are not. What’s in a word? Shows me a whole lof of selfishness. Instead of following the law, they have to have it all. AND by doing so automatically passes along the fears that they claim they had growing up.

    I can’t remember which lady mentioned that when she was 14 she was walking home and a flashing pervert drove by and scared her and her friends. Her friends went home to tell the police but she didn’t dare because of her fear that if the police were called they would take her away because she is the daughter of a polygamist.

    The very same could be said about a child of parents growing pot farms.
    or the theif in the night who goes around stealing and has kids that are told not to tell. It is what happens to many families that break the law.

    They said that they are “independent” and that they are doing this because of their faith. Like I mentioned on Lindsays blog. Hogwash. Strings attatched to a different branch of the same tree. And I don’t want to go to far into the whole religion thing but they said they are practicing Polygamy because of their strong faith.

    How strong can it be if it is hidden behind the word “independent” ? It is what it is and I know what it is.

    Dr. Phil brought up the jealousy issues and I heard the same blah blah makes us stronger line but then Dr. Phil took it one step further and asked about the honeymoon. Without pushing it the answer was obvious. And I am not real big into finding out who sleeps with another or how often. What was obvious was the old line of “making them stronger and a better person” train of thinking. In a nut shell. BS.

    The show was seriously a good show. There was and is no way I will ever think Polygamy is a good thing. Ever. But what a nice change from the whole Sister Wives BS scam. The families have shared some of their family history which a person can actually see and read.

    Their story (this story) needs to be told imo. The two women (friends/cousins ) didn’t want to compete for Joes “love” and Joes mother is the one that suggested that they both go after Joe. I personally would want much more for my daughter and son alike.


    Today Willie is going to be on. 🙂 And from the previews it looks like Dr. Phil is going to say some of the things that have been on my mind for 5 years. Good Therapy for Walton today. 🙂

    And on Wed. I think Sam Brower will be on along with Brent Jeffs.

    What would be really awesome is if Dr. Phil could get Shutleff and the FBI guy and the tax man next month. lol
    Walton

  292. So how can Rod Parker defend Willie the Thug Jessop – an FLDS apostate – AND be the attorney for Amy Jeffs, an active FLDS member and wife of Wallace Jeffs, another FLDS apostate?

    FIFTH DISTRICT COURT-ST GEORGE
    G RAND BEACHAM September 28, 2011
    Courtroom 3A Wednesday

    10:30 AM OSC/FTA AND SUPP ORDER PROC 080501816 Miscellaneous
    JESSOP, WILLIAM R ATTY: BRADSHAW, JIM C
    PARKER, RODNEY R
    VS.
    BROWER, SAMUEL E ATTY: BISHOP, WILLARD R
    ——————————————————————————

  293. I didn’t think people who were breaking the law could write books and profit from them or can they?

    Walton

    Does anyone know if TLC, Principal Voices , the Browns or anyone from this book are donating any funds to some charities? Sure would be nice to see someone cut a check to some of the groups out there.

  294. Doesn’t seem that they are donating money from book sales to anyone other than themselves. Maybe they can stop charging the 14 yr olds in their home rent if they make enough money.

  295. My history tidbit for today:

    On today’s date in 1886 mormon prophet John Taylor recorded his famous 1886 revelation in which he claimed the Lord would never revoke the law of celestial marriage and all who enter heaven must do the works of Abraham.

    http://www.mormonfundamentalism.com/NEWFILES/1886RevelationNew.htm

  296. Let’s hope that they don’t do “the works of Abraham” because the “works of Abraham” resulted in the births of Isaac and Ishmael whose feuding has not stopped since that time.

  297. Amen Anon the Elder.

  298. I phoned home PT! 🙂

  299. Ariel are you married yet ?

    BiB

  300. On the summer equinox of next year BiB.

    Unless we elope in Vegas…… 😉

    It’s a very happy time!

  301. Yay for Ariel!

  302. Question ? Does anybody know who Joe Darger’s parents & relatives were ? Also his wives parents & relatives, I knew some Darger’s in SLC ,many years ago, but idk if he’s related to them ? other-Anon

  303. Looks like Willie Jessop was on Dr Phil and he was crucified :

    http://drphil.com/slideshows/slideshow/6470/?id=6470&slide=1&showID=1681&preview=&versionID=

  304. Other Anon : I can give you that information.

  305. His father is Lynn Darger and his mother is Shauna Barlow.

  306. Other Anon : Here is the obituary of Joe Darger’s father , Joseph Lynn Darger, who apparently liked to be referred to as “Lynn”

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/456801/DEATH–JOSEPH-LYNN-DARGER.html

    Joe Darger’s mother was Shauna, referred to in the link.

  307. Here is the obituary of Joe Darger’s daughter, who died as an infant which provides further information :

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/832017/Obituary-Kyra-Laine-Darger.html

  308. Here is more information on Shauna – it seems that the narrative in the link below provided the story line for the “Big Love” episode in which Barb did not receive the award for “Mother of the Year” because she was a polygamist :

    http://archive.li.suu.edu/docs/ms122/NW/ms122NW19990502.pdf

  309. I agree, yea for Ariel. I’ll be looking for my invite in the mail.

  310. I think it’s a mistake to assume that people who scam the system are not white. I don’t think it’s a racial thing. I think some people are just trash and they come in all colors, sizes and religions.

  311. Good people, too, for that matter.

  312. Kirkus Reviews gives a glowing review of Sam Brower’s book, and an interview –

    http://www.kirkusreviews.com/blog/nonfiction/ugly-truth-behind-polygamy-prophets-prey/

  313. Two more FLDS men face trial, here’s more from the San Angelo newspaper: Wendell Loy Nielsen & Leroy Johnson Steed face charges of bigamy for Nielson, and rape charges for Steed.

    Read more:

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/sep/27/two-flds-members-to-appear-in-court-today/

  314. If they ever turned any of this into a mini part series I bet Sam Elliot would play Sam Brower.

    I want to know why there hasn’t been one agency that hasn’t stepped up and say that they were going to do something and follow thru.

    With that in mind… if they aren’t part of the solution they are part of the problem.


    Does anyone find it a little odd that so many have laid claim of the great fears that they have about being polygamists and yet in the newspaper they have listed the plural wives and the children?

    Walton

  315. Yes, they are “shaking with fear that they might be discovered,” but they post the names of their plural wives and their children in the paper. They are not afraid of prosecution, they are seeking to have their lifestyle viewed as socially acceptable.

  316. Anon, Sam Elliot is one of my utter favorites. A fantastic choice.

  317. Did anyone catch the Dr. Phil show today ? ” Thug Willie ” was somewhat evasive & avoiding many things when he was grilled a little by the Dr. Tomorrow promises to be where the fireworks fly, with Sam Brower, Brent Jeffs & other former members, I saw a short clip of it, Dr. Phil says the “Thug is belligerent , avoiding issues,etc & questions ” It promises to be more argumentative & lively than today’s interview ………………………….. other-Anon

  318. I saw it. My therapy session with Dr. Phil didn’t go as I expected. Felt like I was participating in the Truman show. There were so many commericals and a lot of odd editing. I saw what they wanted seen.

    I have to give Dr. Phil credit though. At the very beginning he talked about how Willie was a guest and he would treat him as such. Sometimes it is hard to tell if Willie is playing a part or if he is really like that in real life.

    Joe and Gideon always get to me. Each and every time. I don’t know if I really want to see fireworks as much as I would like to see results. I saw a clip where Willie gets into Brents face so to speak and what looks like him tossing papers at Sam.

    There was an article out of Canada talking about Winstons group and the Ohler boy. Dr. Phil should bring that lady down here and let her share what she knows from that end.

    But I also think that they should invite some Federal guy that should be in charge. The tax-man. The guy with the sun-glasses. I’ve been watching the papers for any placements of Texas Rangers thru out the states and I haven’t seen it yet. Maybe next month. 🙂

    Walton

  319. I”m still in love with Sam Elliot after all these years. I love him in Shadow Riders and the Sackets.

  320. Me, too. PT.

  321. Another ‘me too.’
    I liked him a lot in Off The Map. My biggest weakness in men is mustaches like Elliot’s. His is hands down the finest! (Except for my late husband’s. 😉 )

  322. Kimbel states Robyn Sullivan filed for bankruptcy in Mexico in 2011?

  323. Third Cousin : ” Robyn Sullivan from the TLC show ‘Sister Wives’ got divorced back in 2008, and we have the details, including a large debt to the nation’s number one lingerie chain!

    HollywoodLife.com dug up the divorce document for Robyn Brown (Kody Brown’s newest (fourth) wife on TLC’s Sister Wives) and looks like Robyn loves lacy underthings! According to the filing, in Ravalli County in Montana, Robyn had serious money issues up until the divorce to David Preston Jessop back in 1999, including owing almost $1,000 to Victoria’s Secret! We’re guessing the unmentionables may have helped her snatch up the desirable Kody Brown.

    The divorce document breaks down the separate debts of Robyn & David. Robyn had a mound of debt that was awarded to her in the divorce. Besides the unusually high Victoria’s Secret bill, she also owed thousands to Target and Sears. The total debt awarded to her was… $32,400!

    But she didn’t leave the marriage empty-handed — according to the docs she got to keep the Sanyo VCR (a VCR in 2007?) and a Kirby vacuum cleaner.David didn’t go away light either; he got to keep the 1974 Academy Mobile Home!

    Robyn was married to David Preston Jessop back in 1999; the couple had three children together over the duration of their marriage; David, Aurora & Brennan. They filed for divorce in 2007, citing irreconcilable differences.”

  324. Are Safety Net Committee Meetings open to the public ? When is the next scheduled meeting ?

  325. If you ever want to watch me go nuts about people (white people even) scamming and generally misusing the government, ask me about some of the folks I know who drew benefits from FEMA after Katrina.

  326. The latest from Mike Watkiss reporting from Colorado City, the ugly, the bad, and the good, little by little.

    http://www.azfamily.com/video/?id=130708188&sec=528732

  327. It’s all good & fine, I live in CCA/ Hildale & the sheeple haven’t pulled down their ZION signs over their doors yet ! Many signs are still up on doors ! With the signs on doors I tell my non-flds family who live here, that I say their ” Zionists ” I don’t think those signs will be pulled down for a loooong time…….. other-Anon

  328. The latest from Mike Watkiss reporting from Colorado City, the ugly, the bad, and the good, little by little.

    http://www.azfamily.com/video/?id=130708188&sec=528732

    EJay said this on September 28, 2011 at 1:10 PM

    Too bad the kid said it was all lies and said it so quick. Wonder if he will be one of the few boys that will get to stay. Given the stats he has to have seen some of his buddies being kicked out.

    Liked the video – [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmsXIziAQcM&w=420&h=315
    Anonymous said this on September 28, 2011 at 6:13 AM

    Also liked watching what little there was on Willie versus Dr. Phil. Wish I could find Dr. Phil show and Anderson on podcasts.

  329. Now, now, we all KNOW that Victoria’s Secret “tidbits” couldn’t possibly have had ONE LITTLE THING to do with Robyn snaring Kody!! Tiskity-tisk-tisk!! Such disgraceful ideas apparently swirling around in our unwashed little brains! These “Browns” have a deep and abiding faith as the motivating factor! We naughty, naughty gentiles are always just imagining things! For shame!!

    P.S. Sounds like “unreconcilible differences” applies to various “situations” in “Lady Robyn’s” life… ah oh, there I go again…

  330. oops, I forgot my Sam Elliott contribution– don’t forget about Sam in his appearance in the movie Gettysburg!

    …I just watched Mike Watkiss. I find it amusing that the young boys driving their new trucks around CC/Hildale, with all the latest bells and whistles on shiny new dashboards, make sure Mike hears “we don’t watch the news. It’s all a (bleep) lie..” ah yes, such holy and pure living out there..

    so free of earthly temptations and contaminations, and such-like..!!

    anyway, I was glad to find Leaving Bountiful on youtube last night- I forget who mentioned it was there, but I had been looking forward to seeing that for a long time. I always wish I could support those financially who produce these films but I have to wait for them to be made available online.

    Watching Debbie Palmer, and hearing her story all over again, I was shocked maybe more thoroughly than ever, about what flds has done to women and girls over the years.

    I watched several of Rebecca Kimbel’s programs also, + subscribed via youtube to her channel. So far I listened to her whole interview with Morris Kunz. I had been looking for more coverage of male experiences growing up in polygamy – Morris made many good points. He is very proud of his six daughters and he is very against polygamy being promoted as a good lifestyle.

  331. waller_matthew Matthew Waller
    by Brooke4Trib
    Former #FLDS prez Wendell Nielsen may resolve his bigamy charges outside a jury trial, attorneys say in a pretrial today
    13 minutes ago

    http://twitter.com/#!/Brooke4Trib

  332. waller_matthew Matthew Waller
    @lwhitehurst Wendell was in court. A plea wud full under resolution outside of a jury trial, but Nichols wouldn’t say anything else of it
    11 minutes ago »

    waller_matthew Matthew Waller
    #FLDS member Leroy Steed’s attorneys didn’t speak with judge in court at all today, just hung out outsde courtroom
    25 minutes ago »

    waller_matthew Matthew Waller
    #FLSD member Leroy Steed (accused of child sex assault) had attorneys come to courthouse her in #SanAngelo, but they didn’t decide on venue
    26 minutes ago »

    waller_matthew Matthew Waller
    Ex #FLDS prez Wendell Nielsen’s final pretrial is Oct. 17, if attorneys don’t agree to something Oct. 14. Nov. 14 would be jury trial
    27 minutes ago

    http://twitter.com/#!/waller_matthew

  333. Check out Sam Elliot minus mustache in ” The Ranger, The Cook and The Hole in the Sky”. Not as handsome without it.

  334. Moose, is that you ?

  335. Warrant out on Willie?

    http://www.thespectrum.com/article/20110928/NEWS01/110928003/Warrant-issued-former-Warren-Jeffs-bodyguard?odyssey=mod%7Cbreaking%7Ctext%7CFrontpage

  336. It’s real. Looks like Willie got crucified on Dr Phil and now he is going to be arrested. The chickens have finally come home to roost.

  337. Well, cock-a-doodle do!

  338. Switzerland?

    Holy crap.

  339. Swiss bank account maybe ?

  340. I shared with my facebook friends the link about the Georgia school teaching about wearing the burqa. I was totally amazed to find that a lot of my liberal girl friends think accepting the burqa is a sign of being open minded about cultural diversity. I’m a liberal and I really don’t understand this. I fought for women’s rights. I completely support a woman who wants to wear a hijab. I see no difference in that and a yamulka or one of the linen caps Mennonite women wear, no problem. But the point of the burqa is to make a woman not a person, to completely obscure her identity. It is a sign of slavery, as if the women were wearing shackles. I cannot understand thinking it is any more OK than honor rapes and killings or genital mutilation or not having the vote. And I CERTAINLY don’t understand teaching that point of view to a seventh grader!

  341. Switzerland is lovely, this time of year. Maybe Thugly has taken up yodeling… but…if I had to guess… he’s probably visiting some stashed money. Now in all fairness….do the FLDS do real international construction business?? I would guess… nnnno. Then they’d have to pay real wages to real workers. His resume might be interesting. ‘Out of work enforcer for FLDS profit’ might scare some potential employers off.

  342. wow! Therapy with Dr.Phil today was indeed a very good session. I needed that. 🙂

    I can’t say enough good things about Sam Brower. I don’t know how he does it. I swear I was holding my breath until commercial breaks, or at least that is when I noticed my self letting out a sigh.

    Ross C. gave me goose bumps when he spoke up and I could have cried when he said that he was glad he had got kicked out. He was better for it.

    Fawn, Brent, Jodi, Ross, everyone looked really good.

    When I kept hearing Willie asking for details, he needed details before he could respond to some of those questions, I actually understood what he was saying to a point.

    Instead of any statue being built of Warren what people should be doing is signing the walls from the outside. Each and every person that has been affected by the insanity of it all.

    If Willie Edson Timpson Jessop is on the buddy system with Willie R. then that says a lot about Willie Edson.

    I thought about Parley Jeffs Dutson and Kara Hopkins. I thought about Johnny whose death still remains a mystery. I thought about Ruth and all that she had seen/heard even before Warren took over.

    Really interesting view that Willie had on Brent Jeffs case going to trial. And the lack of oomp concerning Utahs court. Brings up some room for discussion on how lax things are concerning Utah enforcing laws. imo

    And then when Sam showed him that mountain of paper work that had Willies name attatched? Willie denied signing it for what it was being addressed as but did admit to signing papers for land issues. I believe Willie on this one point. But Who was the one that drew up the papers? Rod? another lawyer? Who?

    So then I come here and see that there is an arrest warrant out for Willie.
    And he is supposedly out of the country. lol I just bet that old dog is.

    Who was Doyle? the kid talking from a jail cell?

    I feel better. I feel better because other people have seen what I’ve seen. I am not crazy if other people see it too. 🙂

    Thank you Dr. Phil
    Walton

  343. Listen Up

    Polygamy and Problem do not naturally go together. ( Oxymoron )

    How many chickens do you know ( personally) who ran have away from their rooster? None The Rooster takes good care of them. Why in the hell would they want to be anywhere else?

    Only in the Homieus FLDsus do you find the phenomenon of the mindless soul-less abuse of chic’s RIGHT ?.
    What Moron would treat their own family with such DIS Respect?
    What kind of Man forces his will on others while living a different set of rules for themselves?
    What kind of person Abuses Women and Children ?

    Go after that Guy

  344. AND

    Please kick his ass for me Will YA ?

    Thanks Mgmt.

  345. Anon at 7:20

    I can’t figure out what you are saying. That there are only bad people and that it has nothing to do with polygamy so go after the bad people?

    Your first sentence really really reminds of my Uncle who was discussing slavery and said, “I don’t understand how it could be so bad, I mean, a man takes care of his horse otherwise he gets no labor, so the owners must have taken care of the slaves…”

  346. mc I am not sure if you are aware but there has been some really strange stories out talking about stolen heavy equipment being sold overseas. Not saying that is the case for Willie but it appears that there are some overseas that are looking here for deals.

    walton

  347. I hadn’t heard that Walton…but I know the flds don’t seem too shy about ‘stealing’ stuff ….warehouses,buildings, grain silos, etc. and moving them about. Why not heavy equipment! I hope a nice handsome Texas Ranger meets him on his return flight…warrant [and cuffs] in hand.

  348. Just watched the Mike Watkiss story. Good story.

    So they are using the basketball court for a recyclable storage?

    That basketball hoop thing can be moved.

    I have been seeing a pattern with all this stuff. One of the biggest problems is that there isn’t an old Grandma Walton there multitasking for those kids.

    The women are going to have to take over. 🙂
    Walton

    And if I can’t be there I vote for Brenda J. ( I am not saying she is old but I bet you money she could do it.)

  349. mc I don’t believe I’ve ever seen a Texas Ranger that wasn’t handsome.

    —-
    Sam Elliot fans: http://www.automatedculture.com/sam_elliott/pictures.html

    🙂

    A day or two ago I asked about the Browns, TLC or the Dargers donating some monies to charitable organizations. I asked this because these folks are openly breaking the law and or making money by doing so. I think it is wrong.

    I never once have made this suggestion about those who have written about their lives or made the suggestion about any other author. I know that there are a lot of homeless people inside Utah and by the looks of things more to come. A nice check from those listed above I know would help.

    What would be even nicer is a little piece of property with a building included that would help that one group in Salt Lake helping ALL the homeless teens. They are cramped for room at their existing place.

    It would be the right thing to do.
    Walton

  350. Anonymous at 7:20PM

    News flash. Humans are not chickens. That is all.

  351. I’m glad the judge is taking it seriously when an FLDS member fails to show up in court. They really need to get the message that they are not above the law, even in small things, and Utah and Arizona have not been all that good at holding to that message.

  352. What’s your opinions om what was said on Dr; Phil ‘s show today ? Also does anyone know Joanie the former FLDS member, who her husband, & her parents were & are ? ………………………. other-Anon

  353. While we’re on the subject of Sam Elliott, I just have to add my favorite of his movie characters – it was when he played Virgil Earp in the movie Tombstone.

    He really makes my heart flutter!

  354. For Anon @ September 28, 2011 at 12:42 PM – yes the Safety Net meetings are public meetings. They are held on the first Friday of each month and alternate monthly between being held in Salt Lake City and southern Utah (there alternating between St. George and Colorado City.)

    ie – one month it is held on SLC and the next month in St.George. Then the next month in SLC and the next month in CC, etc.

    The meetings are broadcasted live online at http://www.ustream.tv/channel/utah-attorney-general

    They start at 9:00 AM Mountain Time.

  355. other-Anon, the Joni on today’s Dr. Phil Show was Joni Holm, wife of Carl Holm, who is the brother of Fawn Holm, who ran away from CC with her pal Fawn Broadbent, who was also on the Dr. Phil Show today.

    Joni did a fabulous job of calling Willie the Thug on his lies and BS.

  356. A bench warrant for Willie the Thug was not first issued today. After the Failure to Appear at his June 27th hearing, a bench warrant for Thugly’s arrest was issued with a $2000 cash only bail.

    After today’s hearing, where Willie the Thug AGAIN failed to appear, the bench warrant was upheld/reissued and the cash only bail was raised to $15,000.

    Willie’s lawyer said that a financial settlement is in the works for Thugly to pay Sam for the expenses he incurred for the court fees, attorney fees and witness fees it cost Sam for the frivolous Temporary Restraining Order Willie sought back in November 2008 – plus interest since the default verdict was won by Sam after he sued Willie for these expenses and Willie failed to appear at that trial.

    Judge Beacham dismissed that TRO case because Willie did not provide sufficient evidence at the hearing to justify issuing a TRO. Willie’s own father testified at that hearing that Sam had not been on Willie’s property, as Willie had proclaimed. Of course, we all know that Thugly has a problem telling the truth and obviously showing up in court.

    This morning, Judge Beacham said, “As you can imagine, I don’t take well to people not showing up, especially not showing up twice. I’d like to hear why his appearance is optional when everyone else’s is mandatory,”

    Even if Willie does settle the debt and pay Sam his $15,000 + that he won in court, Judge Beacham is expecting Willie the Thug to appear in his courtroom at 10:30 AM on November 23rd to explain why he wasn’t in court on June 27th and again today.

    Willie should learn that the “Answer them nothing” defense doesn’t work and that participation in court hearings is not optional.

    I think Wilie the Thug Jessop’s new name should be Willie dumber than a stump Jessop.

    What a moron!!!!

  357. Another possibility is Willie “not smarter than a fifth grader” Jessop.

    Can this blog handle a poll so we can all vote on our favorite nickname for Thugly?

  358. If Willie J has an attorney, either the attorney is incompotent or Willie is blowing off the attorney’s advice. Almost all lawyers will say that you should never allow default judgements against you by not showing up.

  359. Willie needs to write Warren a letter and ask him :

    “So how does that ‘Answer them Nothing’ thing work again?”

    And SWITZERLAND? He can make it to see Dr Phil but not Rand Beacham?

    When Beacham has him by the cajones?

    Willie has a brass pair but they arent serving him well!

  360. How many chickens do you know ( personally) who ran have away from their rooster? None The Rooster takes good care of them. Why in the hell would they want to be anywhere else?

    ——————————————–

    I used to have chickens, so yes I have known them personally. Ever seen them have sex? The rooster rapes the hens. He chases them down while they are, in fact, TRYING TO RUN AWAY.

    That’s all he does with them. He doesn’t feed them, he doesn’t take care of the chicks. He fights with other roosters, but not to protect the hens, only to protect his own access to sex.

    And take the rooster away, the hens are perfectly happy, they even keep laying eggs.

  361. No real reason to go to Switzerland to tend to banking business. You can do it all remotely unless you are trying to access an account that is not soley in your name. Not sure showing up will help there either. I am guessing there is another reason he is there.

    No doubt he needs a vacation after Dr. Phil. Falling back down to earth after living on a pedestal can be hard a man.

  362. Here’s more on Willie the Thug, he gets a bit testy when confronted by Brent Jeffs.

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=17443383

    Click on the video link and see Willie boy being thugly towards Sam Brower.

    Seems ole Willie was about to bust a gut. And off the Switzerland, wonder if ole Willies trying to clean out FLDS bank accounts in Switzerland before Lyle the larcenous and the rest of the Warranties can get to the cash. Just one step ahead of the authorities.

    In any case Homeland security needs to put ole Willie on there arrest lists if he tries to return to USA.

  363. well….. second thought. If you had a suitcase of cash that you don’t want to deposit in US and transfer to swiss account – you may want to hand deliver.

  364. No you don’t need to go to Switzerland to open a Swiss bank account.

  365. Thanks, Anon E Mouse, for clarifying the chicken analogy. Funny how predators project that their victims like their abuse, isn’t it?

  366. Anon E Mouse… I enjoyed your raping rooster post immensely! Funny serious.

    Growing up, we had laying hens but never roosters for exactly the reasons you so aptly explained.

  367. I am hoping that if you tried to get onto an airplane with a suitcase full of case that the TSA would notice. I think there are laws limiting how much cash you can legally carry out of the country in your suitcase.

  368. Yes, I looked it up. There is a limit on entering or leaving the UK with more than 10K Euro in cash. You also have to declare on entry or entrance to the US how much cash you are carrying over a limit, which I think is $10K. So a suitcase full of money should get you in trouble.

  369. Sorry, I meant EU, not UK. There are also limits in the UK, but that’s not what I meant.

  370. Good pick up there, Anon E Mouse !

  371. On Anderson Cooper Daytime Talk today the have the cast from Sister Wives including wife # 4 and they have some of the kids that have been kicked out of the FLDS.

    That show doesn’t air in my area.

    The Dargers have a facebook page and blog that is opened to the public. I saw an interesting comment left by them stating that Dr. Phil was suprised at how fast the audience had “flipped” after having seen the part about the kids.

    When walking out on stage the audience was less than warm but after seeing how nice and loving they were the audience seemed to be much more accepting.

    My isn’t that nice.

    There was also an article out there talking about how the younger audience prefers Sister wives over the Good Wife program.

    Sure does seem to be an all approved push for those breaking the law to encourage others to do the same.


    On Lindsays latest blog post Jay mentioned that he thinks he saw Willie watching his kids games at the school.

    Willie could very well be in the states and it could be a long time before they ever picked him up for anything.

    Why hasn’t Willie been charged for the things he has done concerning the rest of this story? Granted he owes Sam money but what about all the rest?

    Why wasn’t Wendell charged with anything concerning trading his daughter for gain?

    Why haven’t some of the women been charged?
    Walton

  372. Thank you to the Anon who brought over the link to Rebecca Kimble. Along with that one video were others including interviews with John L.

    We’ve seen Utah spending monies so that people better understand those practicing Polygamy.

    What are they spending and doing to stop the practice of Polygamy?
    Walton

  373. Someone needs to rope Willie, tie him down and LoJack him….then he can be tracked just like a stolen car…beep beep beep… [Should do it to all sex offenders, as well. If we can chip our pets, we can chip the bad guys!]

  374. Now there, mc1999, is an idea whose time has come.

  375. Hey you guys on that link that leads to Rebecca Kimbel are other links. Follow them thru.

    Rebecca actually got an interview with Kazaih Hancock. 🙂 I saw an interview a few years ago that talked about her paintings. I was able to get my book thru Ken Sanders (book dealer) in Utah. But I think you might be able to get one thru the Hope. org.

    Awesome!

    And.. Rebecca has other videos including a couple from Irene Spencer.
    (Seeing Irene makes me miss family, she has my mothers eyes.)

    Thank you again Anon. for sharing. And thank you Rebecca Kimbel.
    Walton

    Just like my father use to say to me, A book can take you around the world and back if you read from front to back.

  376. Mormon Hair site has a pic Ive never seen of Raymonds wives. First time I realized who Marie belonged to.

  377. I love the idea of a nic-name competition for Willie the Thug. My suggestion is “The Cane Toad” or if you want to get formal “bufo marinus”. Not only does he look like one, he is also a poisonous pest, which is what cane toads have become in Australia. The big male toads have that same fat thing around their necks just like Willie.

    Take a look:
    http://www.google.com.au/search?q=cane+toad&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=1OmETtG4Fa-QiAfn7KS_Dw&ved=0CEUQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=614

    You tell me – do you reckon Willie looks like one of these, especially around the neck region?

    I wonder if Willie has not yet worked out that his dumb yokel act won’t work on anyone who’s not a member of his “church”. He is as shifty as a shithouse rat but maybe he hasn’t figured this out.

  378. Another thing – my daughter (23) is a great fan of the mormon hair site. Lately I’ve had to sit still for ages while she practices fishtail braids on me. She is getting better at doing them on every attempt. However you will never see me in a prairie dress.

    Going back to fat Willie, does anyone know how many wives he has? Were any of them underage when he “married” them?

  379. I wonder if Willie has not yet worked out that his dumb yokel act won’t work on anyone who’s not a member of his “church”.

    greatdickens said this on September 29, 2011 at 5:05 PM

    I don’t have cable, so I only get to see the content in the links, (http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=17443383&autostart=y) but wow…

    His interaction with Brent Jeffs was pretty telling. I was ready to give him a chance – on the theory that perhaps he had begun to recognize the evil of the system he’d been a part of – and wanted to reform.

    All his “charm” disappeared when he turned on Brent. “If the government would have believed you, they would have filed a case, that’s all I’m saying.” He tried to use the authority at hand, in this case “the government” to shut Brent down and brand him as a liar. Willie has spent his life attempting to manipulate the government, often with surprising success. Suddenly he wants us to believe that he believes the government’s choice not to pursue a case is proof that Warren is innocent and Brent is lying?

    It’s a window into a world in which men easily get away with garbage like that. If you are the one in power, you can call on any authority you choose to shut down the weak and enforce your will. You don’t have to make sense. You just have to have a story. The guy is clearly having trouble adjusting to a world that is free to call him on the garbage he is spewing.

    It must be tough for him to come to grips with the fact that what opened doors for him the past was not so much charm and brilliant logic. It was the bazooka of threats to his victims lives, families and livelihoods that made them so cooperative….

  380. Willie has 2 wives who are sisters. I don’t believe either of them were underage when he married them. Lyle on the other hand is a different story. He’s got at least 1 who was underage and maybe as many as 3.

  381. http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Houston-lawyer-who-represented-Jeffs-charged-with-2195516.php

    Some details of DeToto’s arrest.

  382. Jerrie

    Thank you, a very good post.

    And Willie wonders why he isnt loved all around the world – heck no one has heard of him around the world, except for that Swiss Banker who hid some money for those guys..

    Willie better double dip while he is at the bank, cuz that 15k bail is cash only.

    ARRGHHH

  383. Detoto de tooter?

    he he

    Thanks PT!

  384. Well our guess that she wouldnt last long on the Warren team was right.

    Heck, even his supporters like Willie have a hard time hanging on.

    Oh well, Warren has his job cut out for him now, wasting his days away in some prison craphole.

    Detoto can put that on her resume.

  385. Stamp, you have a way with words. LOL!

  386. The Udashen’s have been replaced on Emack’s legal team.

    F. Clinton Broden and Franklyn R. Mickelsen are now representing all of the men who are appealing.

    Warren’s case finally got listed. http://www.3rdcoa.courts.state.tx.us/opinions/case.asp?FilingID=16488 He is listed as representing himself.

  387. I can’t believe that Warren is representing himself again. Comic relief.

  388. greatdickens said this on September 29, 2011 at 5:05 PM

    Yes, I do see the resemblance of Willie the Thug and My suggestion is “The Cane Toad” or if you want to get formal “bufo marinus”. Not only does he look like one, he is also a poisonous pest, which is what cane toads have become in Australia. The big male toads have that same fat thing around their necks just like Willie.

    greatdickens, you’re spot on! Willie the Thug does resemble how “The Cane Turd” poisonous pest looks and he also acts the part perfectly!

    The new poll to vote on Willie the Thug’s new apostate nick-name will now need to add a line for Willie “The poisonous pest Cane Turd” Jessop.

  389. What are they spending and doing to stop the practice of Polygamy?
    Walton

    Anonymous said this on September 29, 2011 at 11:37 AM

    NOTHING is being done because the crimes are mostly being committed in Utah and Arizona – Large Mormon populated areas.

    Wink, wink. Nod, nod.

    Nothing changes … and the abuses… and the ignoring of them,…just continues day in and day out.

    Such a sad situation that this is now the reality in Utah and Arizona. Children are not being protected and child molesters rule.

    Please keep this travesty in mind, as the presidential candidates do their dog and pony shows to try to win your vote.

  390. I wonder if Willie has not yet worked out that his dumb yokel act won’t work on anyone who’s not a member of his “church”. He is as shifty as a shithouse rat but maybe he hasn’t figured this out.

    greatdickens said this on September 29, 2011 at 5:05 PM

    greatdickens, I have to agree with you here. I don’t think that Willie has registered with the rest of the world yet – outside of his protected world of Utah and Arizona. His “dumb yokel act” as you call it, does indeed work in those two states.

    Hopefully, the rest of the US/world will see through/beyond the antiquated Mormon “good ole grandpa and grandma” polygamous ancestry in Utah and Arizona, and realize what evil things are currently/ongoingly being committed in the name of God in the western United States.

    Enough already!

  391. I can’t believe that Warren is representing himself again. Comic relief.

    Born in Brooklyn said this on September 29, 2011 at 9:36 PM

    BiB, you are more gracious than I am. I would call it “idiot relief”

  392. Kody Brown and the Dargers have been on TV quite a bit. I wish the interviewers would really press them on this question: in their Fundamentalist religion, why aren’t women allowed to have multiple husbands?

    There is no way they can claim that they believe women are equal to men when faced with this question.

    The other thing I wish interviewers would press them on: do they consider themselves Christians, and if so, what is their response to the fact that Jesus said there is no marriage in heaven, and that when humans go to Heaven, they will become genderless, like angels.

    Personally, the lack of gender in Heaven makes sense to me. The purpose of having two sexes is to procreate. Procreation isn’t needed in Heaven. The idea that we become purely spirit without the bonds of sex and gender raises us to a higher plane.

    The Mormon principle that men need multiple wives and will get to rule their own planets is nothing more than human greed of the worst sort.

    Remember my observation about the hens: they are perfectly happy when living without a rooster!

  393. Anon E Mouse said this on September 30, 2011 at 6:08 AM
    I wish interviewers would press them on: do they consider themselves Christians, and if so, what is their response to the fact that Jesus said there is no marriage in heaven, and that when humans go to Heaven, they will become genderless, like angels.
    .
    .
    There’s a flaw in your thinking here… it’s called belief.
    You said something YOU believe is a “fact”… “there is no marriage in heaven…. Procreation isn’t needed in Heaven.” etc.

    Dargers, Browns, or any other Mormon fundamentalists will counter with what THEY believe to be “fact”… (i.e., “Oh yes, there IS marriage in heaven.” etc.) But belief is not fact.

    Confront ANY religious person (Jew, Hindu, Islam, etc.), and they will offer answers based on what THEY have been indoctrinated to believe. All religions indoctrinate their beliefs. There is simply no proof for belief — otherwise it could be considered fact.

    So… your definition of a Christian, my definition of a Christian, and a fundamentalist’s definition are actually equal… because the definition is based on belief and not fact.

    Anyone confronted with differing religious beliefs and questions can only reiterate what THEY believe. You and I will never get satisfaction on such questions if we expect them to cow-tow to OUR expressed beliefs. Their belief is just as good as yours or mine.

    The legalities of belief practices is what has to be addressed.

    Equality is a whole other issue. Can the law impose that?

    Anyway, I still really like your hens and roosters analogy.

    ( Just my philosophical 2¢ … uhh … where’s my coffee!? )

  394. Wonder if they gave Warren a pencil and a legal pad so he could work up his defense, or is he just going to stare at the floor again?

  395. Sister wives reruns were on last night. I had to change the channel. Thinking of all of the bankruptcy’s and their lack of regard to being able to afford kids before procreating turned my stomach. I thought – if bleeding the beast is your plan – then as part of the beast (tax payer) I can’t agree.

  396. EJay, I think that Anon E. Mouse’s point is that if you accept the New Testament as part of your canon of Scripture, and if you believe that Jesus is God, (which fundamentalist Mormons do) – the concept of marriage in heaven, or plural marriage as meritorious behavior which warrants making someone a God ruling a planet in the afterlife is in direct contradiction to the recorded teachings of Christ in the New Testament – a document which fundamentalist Mormons hold to be the inspired teachings of Christ.

  397. Sister wives reruns were on last night. I had to change the channel. Thinking of all of the bankruptcy’s and their lack of regard to being able to afford kids before procreating turned my stomach. I thought – if bleeding the beast is your plan – then as part of the beast (tax payer) I can’t agree.

    Watergirl said this on September 30, 2011

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I don’t know why these scammers have been given a television program. In addition to lacking intellectual content and being in poor taste, the program concerns itself with a family who is abusing the social welfare system. If they were African Americans from the ghetto and they were filing for food stamps while on the TLC payroll, they would have been charged and their show would have been canceled due to the public outcry.

  398. If they were African Americans from the ghetto and they were filing for food stamps while on the TLC payroll, they would have been charged and their show would have been canceled due to the public outcry.
    Born In Brooklyn said this on September 30, 2011 at 9:56 AM

    Two points:
    One: That show would never have gotten off the ground because the food stamps part would have been seen as furthering negative racial stereotypes. (Most welfare recipients are white.) In this case, they are deliberately fostering a positive image of a group, in part by ignoring the aid side of the story.

    Two: We are the public. We can start the outcry.

    It is much harder to get traction on outcry over a positive portrayal of a group – but not impossible. Polygamy is illegal – and they way it is practiced in the US, almost always leads to the birth of more children than the “family” can support without taxpayer assistance. For that reason, if for no other, it should remain illegal – and smiling portrayals of happy families should not be used to promote such an exploitive practice.

    The fact that they were not able to dig up families who have not taken aid speaks volumes. Polygamist have put forth their best in this PR push – and they even their best use government aid.

  399. Following up on that last point:

    The difference between polygamist use of aid and its use by single mothers in general is that welfare and other aid programs were designed to protect children born into families in crisis. Poor mothers who make poor choices are one thing. Low income mothers who find themselves in trouble because of circumstances outside their control are one thing.

    An organized group that actively promotes forming unsustainable family units – is another thing entirely…

    If they do manage to point to a few families that don’t take aid, it only makes the point stronger. They are few and far between. The link someone posted to an article talking about Britain’s experience with polygamous muslim families relying on aid to expand is interesting. Would people be more upset if these families were Pakistani immigrants? Yes, they would!

  400. BiB (and Anon E. Mouse), point well-taken!

    But IMO it still comes down to differences in individual belief (faith) with modern-day revelation and interpretation included. “That was then; this is now.” Or maybe, “You just haven’t found the truth like I have.” “Modern revelation says, blah, blah, blah…” “God spoke directly to me …” etc., etc.

    No matter how well thought out the question, the answer will not satisfy the questioner or a dissident listener — because the answer doesn’t jive with their own understanding and belief (indoctrination). What one believes, why they believe it, is the crux of eons of religious argument and angst. Isn’t the whole question of who is a Christian and who is not based on how one interprets the Bible?

    ***e.g., I believe I’m a Christian according to my stated reasons which include a belief in the Bible. You believe I’m not a Christian because my reasons don’t jive with the way you understand the Bible. I can interpret what the Bible says and so can you. Neither of us wants to budge; and just because you accuse me of not being a Christian based on your understanding doesn’t mean I’m wrong and you’re right. There are irreconcilable differences. Neither can prove anything one way or the other. We can only argue about it; and in the end we just have to agree to disagree (or stay bitter/upset/angry/self-righteous).

    Logically, we are equals.
    .

    ***Just an example … I’m playing devil’s advocate here trying to explain (to myself?) why, IMO, we can never reconcile who is a true Christian and who is not. Arguing it is an exercise in futility.
    Note to self: Stop exercising in futility. Go to a gym. 😉

  401. twitter over last few days:

    Tweets ·Top TopAllWith linksRefine results » »
    _NaNaSaid_ FPPL
    @andersoncooper I’m concerned about the 4 teens that were y’day’s show, how r they gonna support themselves now they r out of the #FLDS?
    10 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply »

    BKSnews CNews
    #Flds ‘Sister Wives’ family, FLDS kids on ‘Anderson’ http://livepapers.net/?p=32246
    15 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply »

    top2talks top2talk
    ‘Sister Wives’ family, FLDS kids on ‘Anderson’ http://dlvr.it/nfq62 #Flds #Top2Talk
    15 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply »

    lahenry lahenry
    @ @katerz1 You took the words right out of my mouth. #FLDS way of life just blows my mind
    15 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply »

    awitinmusic Awitin
    Picnic by Andrew E in Andrew E Greatest Hits Part 2 @ http://www.awitin.com/2011/08/picnic-2/ #flds
    15 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply »

    PinoyVideosTK PinoyVideosTK
    Video: Mean Kitty – Wake Up! 7.31.09 @ http://www.pinoys.tv/video/d2b015082cbe75f/Mean-Kitty—Wake-Up-7-31 #flds
    16 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply »

    jbonz Juztin Bonz
    The #FLDS community is so FLDS’ed Up to the mega max effed up @Anderson http://bit.ly/rcZmiR @GetGlue #Anderson
    19 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply »

    polyamorie Pieter Schultz
    Polygamist communities sent teens to work long hours for low pay / By Sheila Pratt [CA; Canada.com; #flds] http://alturl.com/tnaij
    20 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply »

  402. Two: We are the public. We can start the outcry.
    Jerrie said this on September 30, 2011 at 11:23 AM

    thanks Jerrie for the reminder. Here are tweets for the day. I feel much better!:

    white_watergirl Watergirl
    @ @SisterWives01 can’t watch when you keep birthing babies you can’t afford. bankruptcy and food stamps – get off my (taxpayer) dime!
    2 minutes ago Favorite Reply Delete »

    white_watergirl Watergirl
    hey #sisterwives, come clean, talk on show about all 4 bankruptcy’s, and why you can’t support your kids w/o food stamps despite TLC pay??
    8 minutes ago Favorite Reply Delete

  403. the polygamist welfare thing in Utah and Arizona is a function of those two states turning their backs on the law breaking and thus creating towns and communities within towns who act as sovereign entities concerned only with the state or federal government when it can give them something.

  404. EJ, enjoy your visit to the gym and enjoy your weekend !

    Watergirl, you are priceless ! (Note to self : start following Watergirl’s tweets!)

  405. the polygamist welfare thing in Utah and Arizona is a function of those two states turning their backs on the law breaking and thus creating towns and communities within towns who act as sovereign entities concerned only with the state or federal government when it can give them something.

    Betty said this on September 30, 2011 at 2:39 PM

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    They have quite a sense of entitlement, don’t they ?
    I think they believe we all owe them something because they believe that they will be deities in the afterlife.

  406. I call it “polyganomics.”

  407. What a perfect word to describe the taxpayer rip offs by this, and other similar, groups! I still laugh at how they thumb their nose at Gov’t laws,rules and regs, but use all the loopholes to suck out taxpayer $$$$. Polyganomics!

  408. Maybe we should add “Polyganomics” as a new word on wiki.

    definition: FLDS belief that God commanded us to birth as many kids as possible regardless of our ability to pay for them. To do God’s calling it is necessary for each tax payer to contribute to our mission. Also known as bleed the beast….

    I am sure you guys can word smith a more eloquent definition.

  409. I’ve heard that Lyle Jeffs was appointed “High Judge of All Isreal” by Warren. This really makes me wonder how Warren thinks he has any say so over Isreal.

    In other news, Lyle has announced that Colorado City (Short Creek) and Canada are not in the future for the “elect”. He also confirmed the statute construction.

  410. if that’s true, then holy shit. I wonder what’s next?

  411. I’d like to hear some corroboration… other verification.
    Sounds grim!

  412. Polyganomics:

    Refers to the economic impacts of polygamous family structures.

    1. Use of government aid to designed for “single mothers” to support multiple wives of one man.
    2. The high cost medical care for genetic defects like Fumarase Deficiency that are prevalent in American Polygamist families, but extremely rare elsewhere.
    3. The planned use of government aid programs to support otherwise unsustainably large families in response to religious teaching.

    Annual spending on welfare and other government aid programs to support children born to polygamous families in the United States is estimated to be in the tens of millions annually.

    Although welfare was initially intended to assist in the transition of families out of poverty, in polyganomics, its main impact is to enable religously-motivated polygamists to form family units that result in more children per working father than any but the wealthiest fathers can reasonably support. Mothers are generally limited in their income-earning potential by the religious mandate to produce as many children as possible.

  413. watergirl, LOVED your sisterwives tweets–you go girl!

  414. The UEP Trust is stuck into a legal limbo that WS Jeffs at one point seemed willing to abandon or walk away from. Now that his arrest, trial and conviction has tainted the YFZ Ranch, with his non-Scriptural Quorom of Twelve wives, there seems to be one FLDS Church foot stuck in the past UEP Trust holdings and the other ensnared in Eldorado, Texas. The other two operating gulags in Mancos, CO and Pringle, SD seem to cast the dye in favor of Warren’s ‘scattered flock’ scenario, except a contingent of Short Ctreek, especially Hildale followers, seem focused on remaining which puts Willie E (Timpson) Jessop’s growing enclave in play, very interesting developments. The Bountiful, BC pending court ruling on the polygamy reference case would seem to be the next shoe to fall. Having either the Colorado City or Hildale township charters questioned and/or revoked would hasten Lyle’s “High Judge” decision processes.

  415. I think you are right on caJIM. Bountiful’s decisions could cause lots of problems int he twin towns if they decide to start prosecuting for illegal immigration. The FLDS have gone back and forth across the borders at will.

  416. I’ve heard that Lyle Jeffs was appointed “High Judge of All Isreal” by Warren. This really makes me wonder how Warren thinks he has any say so over Israel.

    In other news, Lyle has announced that Colorado City (Short Creek) and Canada are not in the future for the “elect”. He also confirmed the statute construction.

    Anonymous said this on September 30, 2011 at 4:45 PM

    Anon, now that is funny, ole Lyle the larcenous thinks he’s a judge, the High Judge of Israel. ROFLMAO
    Got news for ya Lyle dude, The High Judge of All Israel is a woman, she been serving as such since 2006, she even got a real law degree. Her name is Dorit Beinisch, she even has a real courtroom Lyle ole boy, where they most certainly would hold a mental competency hearing for Lyle before shipping him off to the lunatic asylum. So Lyle don’t ever travel to Israel, because you might end up in the courtroom of the real High Judge of Israel!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorit_Beinisch

  417. LMAO A Texan!!!

  418. And speaking of felonious FLDS, as posted earlier, ole Willie the Thug has a warrant out for his arrest. Here’s the story from the San Angelo paper:

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/sep/30/arrest-warrant-issued-for-jessop/

    Better steer clear of Texas ole Willie boy, those Texas Rangers now have an excuse to arrest ya dude, LE in Arizona & Utah might not take it seriously, but those rangers will.

    We can only hope that Willies arrest warrant has been entered into the federal system so customs/homeland security can arrest him when he steps off the plane in the USA.

  419. Lindsay Whitehurst has a good blog post about the FLDS switching attorneys yet again in their appeal of the Search Warrant.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/52663581-191/attorney-emack-flds-appeal.html.csp

  420. I’m going to chime in again … I find these FLDS people absolutely fascinating. Is Lyle Jeffs barking mad too? Does he really believe he can hold some position in Israel coz thus sayeth his brother from the jail cell? Or is Lyle just pretending to believe something so mad – but why would he pretend? I wonder how the Israelis would react if Lyle showed up in Tel Aviv to press his claim on the position.

    As for Willie the Thug does anyone really believe he went overseas? If he did will he be too scared to go back to the US in case someone with handcuffs awaits him in the arrival lounge? If going to Switzerland was a plan to avoid his court appearance it seems to have backfired on him rather magnificently. Couldn’t happen to a nicer bloke!

    I wonder sometimes are these FLDS people for real or is it some kind of elaborate hoax because it all sounds too weird to be true. Maybe that’s why I find it all so interesting.

  421. greatdickens you may have hit the nail on the head, as Warren Jeffs righthand man and chief enforcer, ole Willie the thug just might have access FLDS secret Swiss bank accounts, he just might be pulling a Roman Polanski, avoiding US Justice by fleeing to a nation that won’t extradite fleeing felons to the USA. For those who are unaware Roman Polanski was a famous movie director who fled the USA to avoid trial on charges like those of which Warren Jeffs was recently convicted. He’s in Switzerland as well.

  422. This is off topic kinda.

    As some of you know, I have been following another group of people that often has me tossing and turning at night.

    Just lately a group of strangers brought many smiles to those that truly needed it.

    This latest gift is one of many that is very much appreciated.

    It proves to me that if people speak up, the voices will be heard.

    Thank you
    Walton

  423. They are not thinking of the country of Israel. No, it’s even crazier than that. They think that they are the only actual genetic descendants of Abraham. Ignore the fact that they are really the descendants of Americans of English and German extraction. They ARE Israel in their own minds and the real Israel is all part of the evil gentile world which is destined to be destroyed. Somehow, to me, that’s even crazier.

  424. Here’s something even crazier, there are 2 High judges over Israel, 1 God, & the other Jesus Christ ( The Messiah ) ! They are the ultimate judges over everybody, WSJ & Lyle are usurping their power , since they think in their minds they & his sheeple are holier than thou , what a crock ! !!!!!!!!!!!! other-Anon

  425. Good point, other-Anon.

  426. Warren Jeffs and his foot lickers are “Kings of Kult Kraziness” and it ends there.

  427. Thugly has his ” profit ” in a Swiss bank account & his other “profit “, William Timpson/ Jessop ! Amazing how much Thugly & Lyle are” SIMI – LIARS” ! Lyle has both types of ” profits ” No diff. between HIM & THUGLY !!!!!! lol ………. other -Anon

  428. I will be referring to William Jessop as WTJ or William T/J , as opposed to WSJ from now on, a lot easier than typing out long names we all know about……………….. other-Anon

  429. Warren has taken to writing the Court of Appeals. He wrote them a letter on 9/22 and again on 9/27. Wonder if they are good penpals.

  430. Anonymous said this on October 1, 2011 at 10:07 AM: Here’s something even crazier, there are 2 High judges over Israel, 1 God, & the other Jesus Christ ( The Messiah ) ! They are the ultimate judges over everybody, WSJ & Lyle are usurping their power , since they think in their minds they & his sheeple are holier than thou , what a crock ! !!!!!!!!!!!! other-Anon

    There are a number of allusions in Warren’s writings that suggest he may believe he is Jesus Redux, although he doesn’t come right out and say it.

  431. PT,

    Just a guess, but Warren probably used the word “cease” several times in his letters to the 3rd COA.

    Stupid enough that he represented himself at trial.

    Even dumber to do so in his appeal.

    Even Charlie Manson demonstrated more sense than Warren.

  432. Leroy Johnson Steed seeking a plea bargain?

    “During a pretrial hearing Sept. 8, attorneys said they were working toward a plea for Steed’s case.”

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/sep/28/deals-possible-in-2-mens-cases/

  433. Warren may be dumber than Charlie Manson but he is smarter than David Koresh and Jim Jones, guess he gets two points for that.

    But thats a pretty lame bunch to be lumped in with anyway, they all took it over the edge.

  434. Twist, you think scourge might come in to play also. Maybe a swarm of locusts or 2?

  435. PT, you forgot the pestilence to accompany the scourge.

  436. other-Anon

    No more potty talk. I have deleted this post twice now. Please take the hint.

    FLDS Texas.

  437. I wonder if the pilot has any new photos of the statue foundation as its being built?

    By the looks of it, the statue will be able to look in the temple windows.

    Is that creepy or what?

  438. I wonder if the pilot has any new photos of the statue foundation as its being built?

    By the looks of it, the statue will be able to look in the temple windows.

    Is that creepy or what?

    Anonymous said this on October 3, 2011 at 9:10 AM

    The most recent edition of the “Eldorado Success” has an article referring to the tower as a watch tower and talked about windows in the tower.

    http://www.myeldorado.net

  439. All prisons have watch towers, but I thought this prison already had one?

  440. Front page on AOL.com right now….Vicki Darger talking about whats it’s like to be a sister wife.

    Climbing up on my soap box…

    So sick of illegal doings being glorified. *gag*

    My opinion? If you’re doing something illegal…shut up about it. It’s illegal for a reason.

    I’m not going around bragging about how wonderful and peaceful and right robbing the credit union down the street last week was.

  441. Vicky Darger praising “Sisterwifedom”?

    She might want to explain why she weighed about 95 pounds while dating her husband along with the first wife, or why her marriage to Joe was on the rocks for such a long time by her own admission. Hope she’s saving up the money from the sales of this book to pay her kid’s college bills, right now the Dargers are not helping with the tuition and they start charging kids rent and requiring them all to work outside the home at age 14.

  442. It seems that on Saturday, near Beryl Utah, the 11 year old son of Paul Allred Steed and Christine Black was hit by a car and killed. Paul had been kicked out and Christine remarried to Lyle.

    One big question comes to mind. What was an 11 year old doing on the side of a highway.

  443. An excellent question, PT.

  444. More questions…

    Do mother and son live on the Beryl property? (Harker ranch)
    Was the accident near the Harker property?
    Where was the boy’s mother when this happened?
    Where is the father, Paul Allred Steed?
    Was it an accident or hit and run?
    Is the driver known?
    Is the driver related to the boy or his mother?
    Was the driver cited?
    Will there be charges?

    Where is Lyle?

    Very sad!!

  445. From Salt Lake Tribune

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52674101-78/road-car-bus-cedar.html.csp

    “Utah Highway Patrol reported Zedekiah Steed was with a group of young men whose eastbound bus pulled over on the side of the road. Several of the boys went off to the south side of the road. Steed went in front of the bus and started to cross the road when an eastbound passenger car struck him, UHP reported. The boy was dead at the scene.”

  446. Today at 5 pm Mountain Time, John Llewellyn and Brooke Adams will be on Blogtalk Radio speaking about Mormon fundamentalism.

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/cathelinejesse

  447. Thanks chemist and bib, good links.

    On the child killed while on work crew travel, thats tragic but in so many ways.

    I guess the other children will be sent to work soon.

  448. Different accident details:

    http://midutahradio.com/stories/15678-11-year-old-boy-killed-in-auto-pedestrian-accident

  449. RE: I’ve heard that Lyle Jeffs was appointed “High Judge of All Isreal” by Warren

    After the WSJ conviction, when Flora Jessop was appearing nighty on talk shows, she said that only the prophet can really marry folks. Something about having to be able to physically “touch” the person…. She said now that Warren has been in jail for several years there have not been any marriages. She wondered what they will do now that he is sentenced to life +20. Maybe High Judge Lyle can now start the marriage ball rolling again??

  450. Brooke has a new blog http://brookewrites.com/2011/09/20/multiple-husbands/

  451. The rise of polygamy in Britain : http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15032947

  452. Well ole Warren is back in Palestine, Texas that is. He’s back at the powledge unit.

    From the state website:

    Texas Department of Criminal Justice

    Offender Information Details

    SID Number:
    08888382
    TDCJ Number:
    01726705
    Name:
    JEFFS,WARREN STEED
    Race:
    W
    Gender:
    M
    Age:
    55
    Maximum Sentence Date:
    LIFE SENTENCE CUMULATIVE OFFENSES
    Current Facility:
    POWLEDGE
    Projected Release Date:
    NOT AVAILABLE
    Parole Eligibility Date:
    2038-07-22

    SPECIAL INFORMATION FOR SCHEDULED RELEASE:
    Scheduled Release Date:
    Offender is not scheduled for release at this time.
    Scheduled Release Type:
    Will be determined when release date is scheduled.
    Scheduled Release Location:
    Will be determined when release date is scheduled.

    Offense History:
    Offense Date Offense Sentence Date County Case No. Sentence (YY-MM-DD)
    2006-08-06 AGG SEX ASLT CHILD 2011-08-09 SCHLEICHER 1061 9999-99-99
    2005-01-14 SEX ASLT CHILD 2011-08-09 SCHLEICHER 1061 20-00-00

  453. That wasnt a bus he was riding in, it was a work pickup.

    It was one of those FLDS MTV pickem up trucks that seat 6.

    Ford Super Duty

    see pics of type of truck here – NOT a bus

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=2006%20Ford%20Super%20Duty&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=996l996l0l2001l1l1l0l0l0l0l171l171l0.1l1l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=565&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi

  454. Any word on who was supposed to be supervising the 11 year old?

  455. I wonder if Paul Allred Steed has been informed that his son is dead. Good chance he won’t be allowed to attend the funeral. Ask Ron Rohbock about that. He and his other children weren’t allowed to attend the funeral in Eldorado when his young son was killed while riding in a car with Barbara Joy Jessop Jeffs.

  456. PT, I imagine no one was supervising. And I am sickened that family members could learn about this death right here on our blog. Be that as it may, we’re committed to speaking truth.

  457. Interesting how the news stories on the accident varied; from a bus on the side of the road to a large work pickup in a rest area. A tragic accident and possibly to be made more tragic if ex flds family members will not be allowed to attend funeral services. My heart goes out to the family and friends of this 11 year old boy.

  458. “PT, I imagine no one was supervising. And I am sickened that family members could learn about this death right here on our blog. Be that as it may, we’re committed to speaking truth.

    Third Cousin said this on October 4, 2011 at 10:26 PM

    ——————————-

    I think she was wondering who was the responsible party transporting the work crew children.

    The driver – what was he doing that would allow kids to dart into the road from behind his rig at dusk. My bet is he was first one in the can, and the kids were looking for bushes to pee in.

    So he probably didnt see a thing – but he heard it.

    And its true that a lot of FLDS learn different stuff here, thats why they put a ban on the internet

    – its not just this site, its also gosanangelo, sltrib, cnn, foxnews, etc etc

  459. What’s even more sickening is that Zedekiah has a 15 year old sister who is in danger if Lyle starts marrying people. There are also unmarried girls in Lyle’s biological children, at least 3 girls who and possibly 3 more depending on what age Lyle puts as the age for marriage.

  460. Oops, guys, I wasn’t chastising PT or anybody else – I was just lamenting the situation that family members are in with regard to information on their own families due to all the cloistering and secrecy of those still in, and whether they will even be invited to services. Sorry for the disconnect.

    Are we sure Lyle isn’t already marrying people? Yikes.

  461. Nothing Christain about keeping family from attending a funeral for their own blood. Or for kicking out their own male children. Or for seperating families – my tolerance for other “religions.” is thin this morning – at least with this cult.

  462. does anyone know if the journal entries used in evidence at his trial are public domain documents and available to other states for use? How many years of entries are available from the siezure? thanks

  463. The items previously used are all public records and can be obtained from the court reporter. Anyone can get them.

    As for family members finding out on here, I am truly sorry if that is how they find out, but it isn’t my fault or the fault of anyone else on this blog that the FLDS don’t think it is necessary to notify next of kin of these things.

  464. Here’s the Spectrum’s article on Zedekiah Black Steed.

    http://www.thespectrum.com/article/20111005/NEWS01/110050334/11-year-old-boy-killed-after-being-hit-by-vehicle?odyssey=nav%7Chead

  465. You should be able to back-door it through google news search.

  466. PT, if it has already hit print in a regular news paper, then certainly repeating that here is not unethical.

  467. The Spectrum at least acknowledges the unanswered questions.

  468. Brooke has a new blog http://brookewrites.com/2011/09/20/multiple-husbands/
    Keeping Sweet said this on October 4, 2011 at 2:40 PM

    Well KS, I read the blog yesterday and the few comments listed. I entered my own comment and it was “waiting” moderation. So Brooke is screening. Today there are other comments but not mine. Even Duane got to chime in. But, mine is nowhere to be found. Guess my unenthusiastic remark was not what she wanted. So I saved it in case that happened because I KNOW you guys will not moderate my comments as long as I don’t use potty mouth. So here it is:

    Good point Cosmo Philosophy (@CosmoPhilosophy). No doubt they would rather shuffle that under the rug. Maybe this sect should look into selective breeding to solve the problem Mother Nature keeps throwing at them.

  469. I tried the link to the Spectrum’s article, but decided not to pay to access it. I do hope they pursue the question of whether or not the boy was part of a work detail. 11 is way too young to be on a “work detail”.

    The death is the most important and tragic part of the story. My heart goes out to his family. The work detail piece, if true, should be exposed. Children should not be forced to work at that age. That is a a potentially serious violation of child labor laws.

    It is a terrible tragedy and I don’t want to minimize that, but the Spectrum would be doing itself a great favor by sharpening its editing process.

    This is the headline:
    11-year-old boy killed after being hit by a vehicle

    Grammatically, that reads as though the boy survived the vehicle impact and was later killed by another means.

    The grammatical issue is nothing in comparison with the tragedy it describes – but it does detract from the paper’s credibility. If the paper is trying to raise the child labor issue, I’d like to see them retain all the credibility they can muster.

  470. Jerrie

    The “Spectrum” is aka known as “The Rectum” for various reasons, and poor reporting is one of them.

    This even before it was made an experimental paid site by Gannet. Their other properties arent pay per view,

    That said you can read the article, but you need to google something like

    —–

    Steed killed Utah

    —–

    And its about the third one down? The full article is there, yet you cant read comments or other articles once you get in.

    The article properly calls the vehicle a FORD SUPER DUTY VAN not a “BUS” that the hwy patrol was telling news agencies at first – though it likely held enough kids to make the patrol officer think it was a bus.

    I would like to see it investigated further, the HP only checks the vehicle laws, another state agency would have to lift a finger over child labor laws etc, not holding my breath, Utah sweeps this nonsense under the rug.

  471. Watergirl

    Yeah, Brooke is showing her true colors, in case anyone wondered.

    ill bill must be in shock.

  472. “This is the headline:
    11-year-old boy killed after being hit by a vehicle

    Grammatically, that reads as though the boy survived the vehicle impact and was later killed by another means.

    The grammatical issue is nothing in comparison with the tragedy it describes – but it does detract from the paper’s credibility. ”

    Jerrie said this on October 5, 2011 at 5:45 PM

    ———————

    Good catch on the poor grammar, Jerrie. I saw that too.

    Here’s the short story written by Jennifer Weaver:

    “CEDAR CITY – Zedekiah Black Steed, 11, was killed Saturday evening after being struck by a car on state Route 56 at mile post 46.

    Utah Highway Patrol reported that the accident occurred at 7:05 p.m. A bus full of young men pulled over to make a rest stop, and several of the young men went off to the south side of the roadway. Steed chose to cross in front of the bus and attempted to cross the road, the report said. As Steed began to walk on the roadway, the Nissan with a driver and two passengers traveling east struck him. He was killed on impact, the report stated.

    UHP did not have information as to the destination of the bus, in what city Steed resided or the identification of the group of young men.

    The driver of the Nissan that hit Steed, Manuel Rucobo, 41, of Denver, was not cited in the incident. Excessive speed was not a factor in the incident, and the road conditions were clear and free from debris, UHP reported. The two passengers of the Nissan were not injured in the accident, the report also said.”

  473. “UHP did not have information as to the destination of the bus, in what city Steed resided or the identification of the group of young men.”

    Basically the Spectrum said “Hear no evil, See no Evil, Speak no Evil”

  474. RIP Steve Jobs …. 😦

  475. RIP Steve

    May your next adventure be as awesome as this one…

    and for the shortest obit of all time

    http://www.apple.com/

  476. Please Continue on General Discussion #65

    — Thanks, Admin

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