What Is It? (General Discussion #63)

Tower of Babel, Water Tower, Alien Spaceship . . .

Photo courtesy of “The Pilot”

Nope, it’s the base to the upcoming 38 foot high statute of Warren Steed Jeffs!!

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on September 1, 2011.

503 Responses to “What Is It? (General Discussion #63)”

  1. Here is a link to the e book referenced above on Scrbd :

    BiB’s post from the bottom of Discussion #62

  2. If a water tower, could the pump controls be placed below the brown area in the gray area? Could the ceiling in the gray area hold the weight of water above it?

  3. Heard that other felonious profit Brian David Mitchell has taken that conair flight to the federal prison. Too bad he won’t be sharing a cell with Warren, they would make a wonderful couple in the cellosteel kingdom!
    Hope that Mitchell receives the same haircut as Warren received. Imagine all the vermin in that beard and hair, the poor barber will need hazardous duty pay for that trim!

    Here’s more: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52492564-78/mitchell-prison-federal-jail.html.csp?page=1

  4. Cement, I am a lay-person in terms of construction but look at all that steel rebar.

    I remember your doubts (I totally concur) regarding this rumor of a 38-foot statue to our recent convict. To your mind, any chance this tower is where that rumor came from? Anybody else heard anything?

  5. Re: public school – I agree, great, but how “public” are CP schools?

  6. I still think it might get filled up with cement & used as a pedestal for metal statue for WSJ !! Then he can take credit for it & say ” See my people love me ” WSJ still an opportunist !!!! twisted poster

  7. I should really just shut up already but now I’m remembering about poor ole Owen LeBaron in old Mexico putting his entire family naked on the roof of the tallest structure en la colonia to wait to be lifted up to a planet – what is its name again? To the great and utter shame of the rest of the LeBarons, as LE had to be pulled in.

  8. If a water tower, could the pump controls be placed below the brown area in the gray area? Could the ceiling in the gray area hold the weight of water above it?

    cement said this on September 1, 2011 at 8:46 PM

    In the Texas town where I live there is an almost identical water tower that is under construction. Like the one the photo it has door in the base, which will contain valves pumps and control equipment. The water tower here has a massive concrete base, the grey area is reinforced concrete, the brown area are plywood forms used as molds for wet concrete to harden around the re-bar seen sticking out of top.

    If this tower is like others around my area it will have a cylindrical column extending upward from the base with a round or blub shaped water storage tank at the top.

    IMO the stories about a statue of Warren may have been a disinformation plot on part of FLDS to cover the building and fabrication of a water tower, to throw outsiders off the truth.

    A water tower points to a need for much more water, which can only means that they expect a large increase in population. Could the hardcore Warrenites be planning to abandon “short creek”, leaving the majority of the FLDS with the two Willies?

  9. I have it on good authority that this is the base structure for the statute, that the statute’s frame has been finished and it has been trucked up to SLC to have the “skin” applied and then will be returned to the ranch and assembled.

  10. PT, I think you know of my deep and abiding affection for you, so I will assume you will take it all in good humor when I point out that there is a difference between a “statue” and a statute.”

  11. What’s an extra T between friends

  12. If A Texan’s comment about having an “almost identical water tower” under construction in his/her town is true, then it makes me wonder if the FLDS are building the water tower in his/her town.

    …unless they sell the design plans for an “Alien Spaceship – Tower of Babel – Water Tower” on the Internet or in some store in Texas so that both A Texan’s town and the YFZ ranch end up with basically the same tower.

    Does Neiman’s sell blueprints? I know they sell almost everything else!

  13. So, if this is a statue, was it planned before Warren was arrested or after?

    It’s just creepy. Kind of Saddam Husseinish. Hopefully it meets the same demise. There’s nothing quite like the statue of a known child rapist, in the middle of town, to brighten everyone’s day.

  14. I just hate it when we run out of space and have to switch discussion threads in the middle of the day. What a bummer!

    We left behind so many unfinished thoughts and good stuff on General Discussion #62.

    It’s like the Friday cliffhanger of your favorite soap opera and it’s a holiday weekend, so you won’t know for days how the drama unfolds.

    Will we ever learn how many tubes Warren has stuck in him … and where they are … and what they’re pumping? Will Warren ever get his enema? Will Willie E. take over the FLDS? Will Willie the Thug learn to tell the truth?

    Stay tuned for the next episode of “As the FLDS World Turns”.

  15. Sis, I personally agree with you. If I had my way, I’d dismantle religions like islam, fundelmentalism ect in a heartbeat.

    But others don’t personally agree with you and me. And those others happen to be in public offices right now. So I feel pretty helpless. I can only stand by and watch my family and others believe in The Work.

    It messes with me, believe you me. I’m not just totally ok with it. But what can you do when your beloved family (who are good smart, and worldy educated people) believes in it? Call the cops on them? They have only one wife….a permit for homeschooling and aren’t draining the system. They don’t preach to others. Their kids have free choice. So what I can I do if they believe in The Work? Get them hypnotized to think differently? Jeez….

    I love them for who they are.

    Hi Walton! I love your posts! I grew up where you couldn’t just walk in and ask questions…..so I think thats made me want to ask even more!

    As you well know, the Centennial Park has their own Charter School, funded in part by the state. The public school is now being used by followers of William Edson Timpson Jessop. About thirty familes as well as all the “apostates and gentiles” that live there.

    After talking to a man who has just enrolled his kids in the public school down there, it was my understanding that most of the courses will be online with help from teachers through skype or a similar program. This is because the enrollment numbers aren’t yet high enough to do full public school throughout the day.

    Hope I helped!

  16. Ariel, when you said “the enrollment numbers aren’t yet high enough to do full public school throughout the day” were you referring to El Capitan school?

    If so, WTF happened? Several years ago it was a Monday through Thursday school. Did enrollment drop? If so, why? (Now I sound like Walton)

    And if the 2 Willies have enrolled their children for this new school year, then why aren’t there enough students? Did the majority of the El Cap students head off to the Masada Charter School?

    I do know that some of the apostate parents got fed up with the Centennial Park “doctrinal” BS and enrolled their children in Washington County School District schools in Hurricane. Was this enough to cause the enrollment numbers to drop so there is no longer “full public school throughout the day”?

  17. Addressing the previous theme:
    I’ve attended William E’s “Sunday School” or “Meeting” (NOT cottage meeting) — yes, held at R&W (for the present). Both William E. and Willie R. are in the same room, with William E. presiding.

    And I can concur with everything Ariel said regarding her communications with William E. I also enjoyed an extended conversation with him. He’s doing the best he can as gently as he can in a truly difficult situation with deeply harmed, scarred and mind-controlled people.

    No need to repeat what Ariel said previously; she is also right about belief in “The Work.” My input is that only the believer can change what s/he believes and move in a different (saner) direction. Help gradually given by those in the William E. camp and others who have managed to break away from the Warrenite tyranny are beginning to make a difference.

    We can only wait and see as well as hope that those who are willing to come forward (like Wallace) and demand their Constitutional and parental rights will break down the stranglehold Lyle, et al hold over the sheeple.

    My additional input is to William E.: ask open-ended, leading questions in those fliers that the Wills sign and hand out. If the sheeple ever actually see those fliers, questions rather than damning and threatening language are more likely to lead them think about the lies, the secrecy and the abyss into which they’ve been expertly led… to actually decide for themselves that they do have options.

  18. Anon, I’ll try to answer the best I can.

    I do know that Warren recived a revelation (if you could only hear my sarcastic tone with those words lol) about seven (maybe more) years ago to pull out the children from the public school (el cap) down there. Numbers then dropped so durastically that the public high school at least (not sure about the lower grades) had to be closed. That was my understanding.

    I hear the Masada Charter school is still up and running. And I hear the public shcool is up and running, complete with basketball team….only thats it’s not running full capacity. Hence the online programs….

    The online programs are there also for the families who don’t want their kids to physically attend, because afterall, apostate children are so icky….but they can still learn at home.

    Please good posters, correct me if I’m wrong! I deffinately need more information on this subject.

  19. THANK YOU ET!!!

  20. Ariel, I’m familiar with the past history RE the public schools (ie when Warren pulled the children out in 2001.) I was asking about the more current situation with El Cap. It was a fully viable (albeit only 4-days-a-week) school – both elementary and high school – a couple of years ago. I was just shocked (and wondering why) the school’s enrollment has dropped to the point that the school is only an online school now.

    If the apostate students are now considered to be so “icky” (yet they weren’t 2-3 years ago) then what happened? 2-3 years ago, the apostates, the Centennial Park children (who weren’t “gifted enough” to attend Masada) and the Cane Beds students all attended El Cap.

    And Natalie had a full basketball team.

    I don’t know; it all sounds strange to me how the school does not have enough students to have a “regular” school semester this year and can only offer online courses. But, fortunately the new Attorney General of Arizona is the previous state School Board Superintendent, so I am sure he can figure it all out.

  21. Ariel said: “They have only one wife….a permit for homeschooling and aren’t draining the system. They don’t preach to others. Their kids have free choice. So what I can I do if they believe in The Work? Get them hypnotized to think differently? Jeez….”
    ————————————————
    Of course we can’t hypnotize them to think differently, that’s just re-programming them to live by our beliefs.

    ‘Believing’ in The Work isn’t the worst thing. Mormons believe in The Work, technically. It’s the practicing of it that is harmful. If they don’t abuse children, don’t bully women, don’t con others, don’t defraud welfare, and take the time to get a divorce before they remarry, then they can legally worship in this religion. I might think it’s crazy (and I do), but it’s none of my business.

    It’s not about what they believe, it’s about what they do. A man can believe he’s qualified to practice medicine, but if he actually does it without a license, it’s off to the big house.

    I have family there too, so I feel your pain.

  22. I’m pretty sure El Cap has regular classes this year. I’ll check it out, but I think they’re still up and running.

  23. Sorry if I made it sound like they are only offering online programs at the public school. I didn’t mean for it to come across that way.

    I should rephrase. Most courses now have an online program in addiion to the classroom to gain more pupils.

    And amen to that Sis….

  24. Help gradually given by those in the William E. camp and others who have managed to break away from the Warrenite tyranny are beginning to make a difference.
    ———————————
    What kind of difference? Like maybe we’ll see a statue of Willie instead of statue of Warren?

  25. Thanks Ariel for the reply on the school. now… how about this? I know the laws were not written so that people stopped believing in their faith. They were written to protect EVERYONE. From what I understand with this religion is that the “multiple wives” part could actually be taken care of during the sealings after death.

    Is that right?

    So with that in mind. With Polygamy being against the law why wouldn’t someone choose that path?

    Now, I won’t be offended if you don’t want to reply but you’ll have to say you don’t want to reply. Because with my mindset, I would be thinking that you didn’t see it, or that I would need to ask it in a different way. ( one of those things my dad passed on to me) Again, I won’t be offened.
    —-

    Here is another: Back in the day Joseph Smith had different visions telling him about Polygamy. On again and off again. And then Brigham Young and the others with their own visions leading up to John Taylor. From what I understand is that the visions of the current Prophet ( President) are the ones that everyone should be following. Did anyone from the LDS Church come to those in charge of the FLDS Church and tell them that President Taylor had died and that the rules had changed?

    I know the LDS Church say that they don’t recognize John Taylors visit because it wasn’t written in pen but pencil but all the signs and history prove that at that time the LDS Church backed what Taylor had told the FLDS including that statue of John Taylor ( who was living in hiding when he died)

    I’ve seen these LDS Presidents (Prophets) travel from spot to spot and are trying to teach the world to sing so to speak. But I’ve never once seen one travel to the end of Utah and reach out a hand. Maybe the current Prophet thought the other Prophets already did. When in reality… no one has told the FLDS that the rules changed and why.

    Again thank you for your time and responses.
    Walton

  26. What is it? I’ve been dodging this whole thing.

    I think it is a water tower. Lyle had previously gone in and asked to dig another well some time back but I thought he was shot down. Maybe this is why or maybe this is the alternative to not being able to dig another well.

    More people? Yes, I am thinking that more people will be moving in. Is it set up to take numbers of the 10,000 that they keep talkng about. no

    All the cameras and etc.? Insurance purposes or the makings of a real life Truman show? who knows.

    Enough privacy to wear the dresses and poofy hair without being made fun of by many? yes. enough “supervision” so that things can be monitered.

    It all looks just lovely doesn’t it? And meanwhile those without the funny dresses but teaching the very same things back in Utah and Arizona won’t have to answer for those with the funny dresses.

    What happens to Ruth? What happens to Ruth when she walks into town with her funny way of dress and searches for her children? and all that are left are those from CPark who are embarrased and mock those that are different?

    imo this is one way of putting a preatty band-aid that needs more than to be preattied up.

    Polygamy isn’t just about consenting adults. The laws should be enforced and polygamy should NOT be decriminalized.

    I also noticed that Wild Bill has his blog on The Pilots web page. It wasn’t there when the Pilot had his old site. A link to The Pilots old site could be found at the Texas Polygamy board. Clicking on The Pilots old site brings up this new one. Why is Wild Bills blog on there?

    Walton

  27. All the cameras and etc.? Insurance purposes or the makings of a real life Truman show? who knows.
    ——————————
    Omg! So funny you mention that. After I left CC, and The Truman Show came out, I cried a little at the emotional similarities.

  28. Looks like Warrens statue is going to be peeking into the top story of the Temple after all.

    What a creepy deal that is, go to the top floor, look out, and a Steel Warren is grinning and looking in.

    ACCkk!

    Desecration # 3

  29. walton

    I would say the Pilot put mad Bills site on his blog roll just as a link, not to actually name it as any reliable source but rather a goofy source of related entertainment.

    Note also that the “flds truth” is a dead link.

    I dunno if he has Huge McNut’s site up, perhaps not since Hugh had a big write up about how nasty Warren was and went over it point by point.

    He was never pro FLDS as much as he is pro plig in his own house even though he has always failed at that big dream of his.

  30. In this episode of “Polygamy : What Love is This?” Doris Hanson roasts the Principle Rights Coalition for their hypocrisy :

    http://www.whatloveisthis.tv/episodes/2011/ep431.htm

  31. BTW

    IRT the foundation, I dont see that as a water tower, I’ve seen my share in middle America, and though I havent inspected the engineering, I have a few observations

    1 if its a water tower, its missing water intake pipes leading into the base. There isnt a water pipe in the picture. That should be present

    2 A good water tower would be built on a steel structure resembling playground monkey bars, not with all this concrete on the base that precludes piping and ventilation of any pump mechanism

    3 It appears to be the base for an idol, and the concrete and steel reinforcement are overbuilt to withstand wind shear – yipes it must be real windy out there at times.

    4 It will become part of the “Tour Americana” attraction when the State of Texas repo’s that scary ranch and a must see on your bucket list right next to the Spruce Goose, Dollywood, Graceland and Stone Mountain.

  32. Another funny note:

    The pilot caught these hard working fundies on a break?

    Did they run away at the sound of the airplane? From that scaffolding?

    Did they go to Lowes for more supplies?

    Shortcreek first to get some cash money?

  33. Since polygamy is only allowed in Islam and not required for salvation in any way, I think it’s probable that with education and opening up to the rest of the world, it will slowly die in that religion. In fact, today, it is a small percentage that practice it worldwide – less than 10%. The same thing happened with Judaism, only it happened several thousand years ago. Being that it was not central to the theory of the religion, it became uncommon and then it became frowned upon and now it is almost unheard of. The followers of Joseph Smith, however, will have to get rid of Section 132 and any and all revelations that see women as incapable of achieving salvation without a man as a surrogate. There are some sects of Hinduism that also argue that women do not have souls and cannot attain enlightenment at all. They still have the highest percentage of polygamy of any religion at about 12% of households.

    I guess my point is that we have historical precedent of religions ceasing a cultural behavior without ending the religion, so it can happen without destroying the religion itself.

  34. Betty

    The LDS have been able to do that, but as you note still have a foot in the door and there arent any plans as of today to change that.

    Another note on the pics, as in this uncropped one, you can see the fenced “religious lot” across the street from the Idol.

    Also of note, again, there isnt any water pipe or pump apparatus anywhere to be seen. And I dont know about other towns, but usually water towers arent built near such fancy fence work.

    Is that going to be Temple number 2? Or maybe a Church, so peeps can look at Warren as they go in and out of services?

    They should install one of those big old Paul Bunyan’s with an axe, Warren has chopped up the FLDS like no other!

  35. On another note, it seems like construction is going full bore not only here but in Pringle.

    Exodus from Utah? Wouldnt be the first exodus, but hey that is home base!

    And the grass died at the Temple. The Gardener hasnt been tending his grass, now that he lost access to his bed.

    Note in all those pics, very few perp peeps, just a handful of guys running a trench to wire cameras and electric gates to the guard tower.

    They must be on break, shooting the breeze on how much hell Warren is getting in prison – a lot, or a little?

    Seems like he got the whole box.

  36. New film just released on the Islamic Zina laws and women’s rights in Iran :

    http://www.takepart.com/circumstance#.TmDj1ziV-0Y.facebook

  37. yo, yo, this here be Dubya S J, and I almost got a toe tag,

    good thing my boyz got busy sculptin me with Book and ho-bag

    I gots a Bible in one hand, a baby-wife in my other

    I still got lots of sheeples, I aint’ worried bout my brother

    His suit’s just one of many, it don’t worry me a bit,

    My boyz’ll slave til kingdom come each time I throw a fit

  38. Help gradually given by those in the William E. camp and others who have managed to break away from the Warrenite tyranny are beginning to make a difference.
    ———————————
    What kind of difference? Like maybe we’ll see a statue of Willie instead of statue of Warren?
    Sis said this on September 2, 2011 at 1:42 AM

    ———————————

    Sis, I can address your first question; not your second — though sarcasm understood.

    Without going into people’s personal stories, the difference shows in the growing number of people willing to listen to ANYthing outside their party line. They are quietly talking among themselves… little by little becoming more aware of Warren’s atrocities. If caught speaking to someone in William E’s camp they are summarily shunned, kept out of FLDS general meetings and/or booted out by Lyle.

    In this, they are very brave because they stand to lose so much unless they’ve been able to quietly convince their families that something is terribly wrong in their religious lives making it necessary to make changes.

    The exings are still going on with families torn apart in the process. Lyle’s method is (in essence) to intervene in the family by hustling away the wife (wives) and children while hubby is away (e.g., at work). Hubby comes home to an empty nest and is told he’s out… he’s a traitor… get out of town.

    It’s sickening!

  39. Addendum:

    As aptly stated in the previous thread, “…the situation in the Crick is dire folks….Just Dire.
    Ariel said this on September 1, 2011 at 5:14 PM

  40. this is listed on Twitter but, I don’t want to pay for the subscription (yes, not only am I cheap but broke too these days). Anyone have a subscription to Eldorado Success that can tell us more?

    Katy_Vine Katy Vine
    Eldorado Success says 14 #FLDS companies filed w/TX Security of State earlier this year to form merger “Phase-Tex LLC.” http://bit.ly/qCXJYI
    30 Aug Favorite Retweet Reply

  41. E. Texas — Do you have any idea if Lyle is acting on Warren’s behalf? Or are the exings something Lyle is doing independently?

    I really feel for the people in the Creek. But I’m glad to hear that, as difficult as it is for them, that people are beginning to wake up and be brave enough to make changes.

  42. Sure looks like the beginning of a cremaqtorium …….. lets all run with that for a while.

    Seriousely folks, water tower gets my vote but I am sure that Stamp will disagree. Why not just look up the permits required by the State to build a water tower and solve the issue once and for all. As usual much time will be wasted debateing a non-issue just for the sake of throwing around more insults. Even the FLDS can’t build a water tower without permits, or can they?

  43. Ariel, thanks for the clarification on the El Capitan school. I had interpreted your posting to mean that only online classes are being taught this year. I’m glad to know that is not the case.

  44. You’re quite right Walton. I didn’t see those questions the first time they were posted. But I’m afraid I won’t be of much help. I don’t know about sealings after death for the FLDS. The only thing I know of that comes close is baptisims for the dead that the LDS church does.

    Also, when it comes to your prophet question…..What an excellent point you have made. I have my theories. And I’d love to sit down and talk about it.

    But in short I think it had alot to do with Lorin C Wooley and alot of regular mormons still beliving in the plural principle. I have a book on it I’m sure you’d love to read…

    Question for everyone else now…..Now that Will E is teaching the truth about the trial and pre warren scripture…..will Warren and/or Lyle quit exing people for fear of competition from Wills group? I can’t see them letting go of power too easily….

  45. Ariel and Sis,
    I don’t care if consenting adults want to believe in “The Work” or not.

    However, I do have a HUGE issue with the “Placement Marriage” practice. I think the teenagers who want to date and court should be allowed to do that.

  46. IF it’s a statue of WSJ ,why does the frame for it need to be trucked to SLC,to have skin applied ? Then trucked all the way back to YFZ ranch to be assembled ? NOBODY in TX has an industrial/ manufacturing place , to apply skin on statue ? Seems like a waste to me to ship it all the way to Utah by truck, just to have it shipped back to TX by truck, If it’s a statue frame, it makes more sense to find an outfit in TX to do it, a lot less miles & could be done in TX, but then those sheeple are senseless followers of WSJ …. twisted poster

  47. Ariel said this on September 2, 2011 at 10:11 AM

    Also, when it comes to your prophet question…..What an excellent point you have made. I have my theories. And I’d love to sit down and talk about it.
    ____

    Grab a chair. 🙂 If you want to share the name of the book – I might already have it. And if I don’t have it, I would get it. I really do want to understand.

    Thanks Ariel

    Walton

  48. Permits? BWAHAHAHAH. That was a good one. Thanks.

  49. I personally am very skeptical of the statue idea. I dunno, I would like to think that all sorts of alarm bells would be going off in some people’s heads about stuff like, I dunno, idolatry? and I also don’t know where the one news story that I saw got its information. if it does in fact turn out to be a statue, then my mind will be sufficiently blown. Building close to the temple does lend some credibility to the statue idea, however. Probably going to wait and see on this one. We’ll all find out soon enough. for better or worse.

  50. Agreed anon….if there is anything the really ticks me off, its arranged marriages…..Who is anyone else to decide who you’re supposed to shack up with? Thats such an irresponsible way of handling such an important thing as a family in my opinion.

    And in another random rambling opined view of mine, I think placement marriages are a bit sexist. Who is to say a women doesn’t know who is best for her? Who is to say a woman needs a certain man to “lead her in the way of the preisthood”. BS….a womans personal relationship with god can be just as good as any mans. But thats just me.

    Now I’m not bashing every single marriage out in the twins cities. For those people who asked to be married, and were given consent, and for those people who messed around to get married, and for those people who learned to love each other deeply, Kudos!

    Walton, I bet you do have the book! The Polygamists: A History of Colorado City, AZ.

    By the esteemed Benjiman Bistline.

  51. ET

    I would buy a shotgun or three for my wives, if Lyle ever trespassed the order would be to fill him with lead!

  52. It is my understanding that the skin was created in SLC and the frame in Angelo. I certainly think it was be easier to ship the skin than ship the frame, but this is the FLDS and they never seem to do anything the easy way.

    As for ZXC’s question about permits, the Ranch is outside the city limits so Im pretty sure no permits are required.

    Now here’s the interesting part, Warren has been in the custody of TDCJ since August 9. He hasn’t had access to a phone since he’s been there because he’s been being processed. No phone access in processing. Lyle has not had communication with Warren since August 8.

  53. Walton, I bet you do have the book! The Polygamists: A History of Colorado City, AZ.

    By the esteemed Benjiman Bistline.

    Ariel said this on September 2, 2011 at 11:13 AM

    🙂 I do have the book. What is crazy is that I am in and out of there so much but I have never been able to make any connection with the LDS telling the FLDS that there was a new guy in charge.

    I will go back and do some more digging. Thanks
    Walton

  54. Where do ya live Walton? I’m in the Salt Lake ciry area….we could go over it together. We seem to share the same passion.

    Course that may be a little assming of me. Maybe you’re in South Carolina or something lol

  55. “Permits…”

    If it is a water tower, then there would have to be approval from the Texas Water Development Board.

    Recall that YFZ ran afoul with that agency back in 2004, which gave the state inspectors access to the property.

    They got in line and got their stuff right.

    Rest assured that if they are trying to go around again that the Mankins know what is required.

    The statue thing seems far-fetched to me, but if that is the case it wouldn’t be the first time that the goofy not-a-prophet does something totally off the wall.

    Maybe he envisions himself as Joseph Smith with a Texas twist a la the large statue of Sam Houston on I-45 north of Houston.

    Inquiring minds do want to know if the cement used is Warren’s special secret cement recipe, but I don’t even want to know what he has them putting in there. :/

  56. Found it Walton…or at least part of it…..I’m sure there are many many reasons though….Page eleven….Lie one and Lie two.

    Given that train of thought….if the LDS ever did try to contact the FLDS…..the FLDS would believe it was from Satan. Now I know that was recent, when the Barlow brothers wreaking havoc, but maybe that train of thought wasn’t so new?

    I can just imagine…..

  57. Whatever it is, it looks like it’s going to be fugly.

  58. May be relevant and may not be depending on what the thing is —

    When YFZ got caught in 2004 not having approval from the state regarding water and sewage, Warren relented and had them acquire a permit for an additional water well in the event that they might need it in the future.

  59. The Texas water districts requires permits for water projects so if the FLDS has a “water project” there will be a permit. Under the “right of capture” laws water can be gathered so if the FLDS does not want State money they can ignore the water district with little but loss of State funds that they claim they don’t take anyway. Still folks, make a call and it may settle the issue.

  60. Okay, I just renewed my Eldorado Success subscription (shoulda done that some time ago) and a picture of the thing is top of the fold.

    I stand corrected…

    TCEQ (Texas Commission on Environmental Quality) is the state agency that would have to issue a permit if it is a water tower.

    Of course Randy and Kathy have already checked with the agency and no such permit has been issued.

  61. Read my comment below yours, zxc…

  62. I think that past history shows us that the FLDS are willing to be in violation of the law regarding permits until or unless the local government forces them to get in line. Since they also own construction companies, trucking companies, manufacturing companies and a concrete plant there is no reason to think a lack of permits would make it impossible for them to get materials.

    I think the statue idea is a bit far fetched, also. But I agree with Stamp that it is not like any water tower I have ever seen. I also agree with the fugly statement. Given that Warren directed the color and fabrics of things inside the temple it is not totally inconceivable that they are building something that is poorly or oddly designed simply because they were instructed to do so.

  63. Hope it’s not a statue. Then WSJ will always be watching over his sheeple and that’s plain creepy!

  64. It reminds me of a lighthouse or watch tower. The design structure indicates to me it is going to carry something very very heavy. I don’t think it is ugly but, I am the daughter of a civil engineer.

  65. Found it Walton…or at least part of it…..I’m sure there are many many reasons though….Page eleven….Lie one and Lie two.

    Given that train of thought….if the LDS ever did try to contact the FLDS…..the FLDS would believe it was from Satan. Now I know that was recent, when the Barlow brothers wreaking havoc, but maybe that train of thought wasn’t so new?

    I can just imagine…..

    Ariel said this on September 2, 2011 at 11:37 AM

    See I am not so sure that Wooley was lying. When he told the story about John Taylor visiting..and then the 8 hour meeting and the events leading to and before that visit has imo a pattern that has led back to the LDS Church.

    Brigham Young had visited the site and made the statement that “this would be the head of the Church and not the tail” was made before John Taylor said the things he did.

    At that time John Taylor shared his vision with the group he was still considered the President of the Church.

    There was and still is a big mystery behind the key giving and who has the keys but imo many of these groups think they have the keys because someone from the Church told them the same Taylor story.

    So even though the LDS Church doesn’t condone the practice of Polygamy the Church still has ties with the many that are out there. If the LDS Church was serious about the excommunication of those practicing why would they allow these same people into their Heavens via the back door?

    It doesn’t make any sense. The different groups were told that if they worked hard, and followed the Polygamy rule that they would be taken care of and so would their families. AND they would be allowed into the Heavens. Which is exactly what the LDS Church has been doing.

    But NO ONE from the LDS Church has truly cut all those ties.

    Rulon Allred had some type of Summit meeting with LE and other groups. It made headlines in the papers. If they can do it once they all can do it again including the President of the LDS Church.

    I know it can be done. The whole problem has been that no one wants to say anything out loud and in a real statement spoken and signed by the current President of the LDS. ( if they do a summit I hope they invite Ann Wild she would spread the word)

    Sorry I took so much room folks. I am real serious about this topic. imo I think finding the answer in the history will help solve some of the teachings for tomorrow.
    Walton

  66. I agree, whatever it is, it is going to support something very heavy.

  67. E. Texas — Do you have any idea if Lyle is acting on Warren’s behalf? Or are the exings something Lyle is doing independently?
    texasconnie said this on September 2, 2011 at 9:48 AM

    In my opinion, it has been a mixed combo; but given Warren’s guilty verdict, his latest incarceration and medical issues, I believe Lyle is pretty much acting on his own with an ultimate agenda of taking over completely. Details are a wait-and-see proposition.

    Again… jmo.

  68. Warren makes an interesting Angel Moroni, tooting his horn through a rubber hose.

  69. They have a pic of him in every room, even the Master bedroom overlooking them, why not a big ass statue too.

    They can throw down some prayer rugs in front of it.

  70. Wonder if they have been purchasing uranium. Maybe the pilot should carry a Geiger counter with him on his flights.

  71. “I think placement marriages are a bit sexist. Who is to say a women doesn’t know who is best for her? Who is to say a woman needs a certain man to “lead her in the way of the preisthood”. BS….a womans personal relationship with god can be just as good as any mans. But thats just me.”

    Ariel said this on September 2, 2011 at 11:13 AM

    OMG, that statement shocked me. An outsider’s perspective: A LITTLE BIT SEXIST??? I can’t imagine anyone telling me who I should marry. I can’t think of any choice more essential to my personal liberty and happiness than who I spend my life with! If I can’t make that fundamental choice, do I have any liberty at all? If men make that choice for me, I am their property, not their equal. That is not the world I live in.

    I completely agree with your statement. I’m just surprised by the existence of a world in which it needs to be stated.

  72. My comment was tonue in cheek, but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least for them to attemp a nuclear reactor and bypassing NRC. For humor to be successful, it must have an element of truth to it. Before I had any clue of YFZ, I had an FLDS individual (not in a leadership position and will remain anonymous) call me up and ask if I would help him build a nuclear reactor for “the good cause.” As politely as I could, I said no, but didn’t consider it serious enough to mention it to anyone.

  73. I looked at Pilot’s photos and is anyone able to tell just where this ‘tower/statue base/nuclear reactor’ is located within the walls? With all the yfz acreage, would it’s position give a clue as to it’s purpose? With Texas currently being in drought mode, maybe they are looking to suck up as much water as possible to store for future use? It would fit into their taking [stealing] everything they can get their hands on lifestyle. I don’t know anything about water tables, etc…but is there a way to tell if they have access to underground reservoirs there?

  74. I don’t know about assigned marriage being sexist per se. The moonies, for instance, did assigned marriages. It’s all about control. But yes, in polgyny it does have overtones of a slave auction.

    But, I think the assigned marriages are almost as bad for the men as for the women. I’m sure the young men who have no wives would be happy at first to have any sexual partner, but even they might have “buyer’s remorse” when given someone who is not pretty or smart or who has no skills or who is a drama queen. And, we are assuming that all the men WANT another wife or that he asks for a particular one and gets her. But Warren doesn’t seem to work that way. He ousts someone and gives his wives to the man’s brother or enemy. He also seems to pair people up to test their obedience, matching people who aren’t likely to get along. What if your family were stable, your income was not likely to increase and you suddenly have two 35 year old “new” wives with children of their own to take care of….a net increase of 10 people? You have to make room, change the family routine, rearrange money distribution. That sounds horrible for everyone to me. And my husband says he can’t think of anything quite as bad as having three wives and then suddenly being given a frightened and hormonal 15 year old, and one that he is supposed to get pregnant quickly at that! Sexual fantasies aside, most 55 year old men see 15 year olds as daughters or grand daughters and in no way do they want to spend time with them or have conversations with them. I know when I see 15 year old boys, I don’t think “I’ve got to have that!”, I think “I bet he eats twice what I do and can’t do his own laundry”.

  75. Cement, there is something ominously industrial about the shape of that thing. I can see your point. I guess, as yehaa says, we’ll just have to wait and see.

  76. mc…..the US department of agriculture has water table info for the entire country county by county. Water table debth should be found within USDA surveys, most of the work was initally and was updated as needed.

  77. correction…….most of the work was done in the thirtys and updated as needed

  78. Anon said: Ariel and Sis,
    I don’t care if consenting adults want to believe in “The Work” or not.

    However, I do have a HUGE issue with the “Placement Marriage” practice. I think the teenagers who want to date and court should be allowed to do that.
    ————————————-
    I have a big problem with placement marriage too. It’s one of my pet peeves. I also don’t care who “believes” in The Work, but I do have a problem with consenting adults practicing religious polygyny. Here’s one reason (though, I have a few):

    One day before a girl becomes a consenting adult, she was most likely a coerced minor.

  79. Thanks for your reply, ET. It is sickening that Lyle is continuing on Warren’s path. Someone said “change will only come from the inside” and I have always believed that. So, I guess if it has to be Willie helping to open their eyes, it’s better than nothing.

  80. Betty said: I know when I see 15 year old boys, I don’t think “I’ve got to have that!”, I think “I bet he eats twice what I do and can’t do his own laundry”.
    ————————————–
    HAHAHAHA! That is hilarious! Love you, mean it.

  81. Sis, I’m one who consistently says “real change will only come from within.” And there are other exes like me who agree 100%.

    I’m sure it is not just one who is “helping to open their eyes”… there is a truly concerted effort going on.

  82. What the LDS & FLDS were taught was the Americas: North/ South was the land of the descendants of Joseph who was sold into slavery. That being said, what gets me is I was taught this by my dad, my question is why just settle in a few places when they have two continents to settle ? Another thing I was taught was Jackson County, Missouri is to be where the center stake of Zion: Temple,stakes, & build a city called New Jerusalem according to Mormon teachings, there are many places for the FLDS to settle, including, Missouri, Iowa, Illinois, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Upstate New York, & Vermont,( where both Joseph Smith & Brigham Young were born !) all these states , various parts of those states were settled & occupied by them for a while, so they’re limiting themselves to a few states, when two continents are for them to settle ! i don’t understand their thinking on this issue, why settle for less land when can have more land than what they’ve got right now ? twisted poster

  83. Maybe the ‘thing’ is a launchpad for their very own spaceship to get to their special celestial whatever..
    C-M

  84. The base is due north of the temple annex and next to the cemetery.

  85. I sell granite & I say that’s not much of an honor….it sounds like they are on a tight budget, granite would definately look better under a statue. I’m afraid until I see a statue on this thing my bet is on the water tower.

  86. I think I was the first to suggest water tower, but I have to say that in my experience thus far, when PT has something on “good authority” (the statue), it generally comes to pass.

  87. Wait a minute, the first reports of the alleged statue stated that it would be placed in the creek. Right?

  88. According to some there’s something being built inside the fence at the new house in the Crick.

  89. Wow, Texans, that was some football game!

  90. What’s the statue supposed to be made of? Stone? Bronze? Wood? Concrete? I’m a new comer to this site and don’t remember reading much about the statue. Is there a thread about how you all feel about the coma Jeffs was/is in?

  91. Jeffs is not in a coma. He has pneumonia and he is on a ventilator.

  92. The statue has a metal frame is all I know.

  93. I don’t think he is on a ventilator. I heard he is sitting up in bed and eating.

  94. If I was designing Warren’s statue, I would put a long skinny lightning rod on it…based at the groin. Every lighting storm would bring a little poetic justice.

  95. From God, of course.

  96. I read one report that said he was medically sedated so they could insert a breathing tube into his throat as he couldnt be trusted to breath on his own.

    Thats perhaps where the “coma” and “near death” rumors started.

    Those procedures are complicated and dont make good sound bites.

    Regardless, it sounds like he is out of the woods, and from now on they will have to babysit him, hope they make him wear a pink diaper because he is the new drama queen in prison.

  97. First reports on the Statue were that it was being fabricated in Texas.

    No one ever claimed it was meant for erection in the crick.

    But yeah, we all know who is paying for it.

  98. If the statue is metal, then we can rule out a regional “Burning Man” event.

  99. Anonymous, who says there can’t be a” Burning Man” event near the “crick, nobody says it has to be in town, just near it is good enough for me, yes it’s 100′ feet of wood & lumber, for the effigy, there’s plenty of “apostates” who would like to burn a effigy of WSJ & Lyle if they could, name it ” Pedo Man ” then burn it …… lol twisted poster

  100. For the fans of Roger Nevermissashot, he was arrested AGAIN!

    NEVERMISSASHOT, ROGER NICK
    Birth Date: 09/06/84
    Address : 1180 W 425 N #B2, St George, UT
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    21:30:00 08/31/11 Wilson, Joshua SGPD

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    WARRANT-C/B WARRANT-CASH OR BOND BM 5DIS 2500.00 [No Payments Made]

  101. “Burning Pedo Man”

    I like it!

    And the statue at YFZ – since it is metal they can burn it every year, just stack wood upon it for each event.

  102. That “all consuming fire” isnt from Heaven, Warren….

  103. Lindsay mentioned on her blog that the FLDS were to have submitted their breifs by Sept. 6th concerning the UEP trust battle.

    Who would be doing that ? Does anyone know if Warren signed over the Ranch before they hauled him off?

    IF the many members of the FLDS decide to stay within shortcreek and pay their taxes etc. what would be the next move?

    Does anyone know why there haven’t been any entries for this year on the UEP site?

    http://www.ueptrust.com/index.html

    Walton

  104. I dont think Warren is on title at YFZ.

    They used a member to buy it under false flag and maybe transferred it to a new church name

    Holy Order Of Texas

    HOOT

    (?)

  105. Gotta love the English take on all this nonsense

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/10/warren-jeffs-the-secret-statue-of-the-polygamy-cult-felon.html

  106. Maybe we can get the ” American Idol” team to rate on a scale of 1 to 10, WSJ & his statue…… LOL twisted poster

  107. Chaps, great idea. An earth-friendly recyclable “Burning Pedo Man”. Works for me!

  108. Walton, Wisan hasn’t posted anything because he is not being paid to create the reports to post. Maybe after Mark Shurtleff’s office pays his back wages, he’ll start creating reports for the web site again. Can’t blame Wisan; he doesn’t work for free.

  109. To Isaac Wyler : even if a statue of WSJ goes up at YFZ ranch, let them do it, or it’s erected at Short Creek ,fine , we apostates can build Pedo-Man effigies of WSJ & Lyle & burn them !!!! LOL LOL twisted poster

  110. Check it out, Warren is now a FLAMER

    http://www.olivestudio.com/branch/?tag=burning-man

  111. even if a statue of WSJ goes up at YFZ ranch, let them do it, or it’s erected at Short Creek ,fine , we apostates can build Pedo-Man effigies of WSJ & Lyle & burn them !!!! LOL LOL twisted poster

    Anonymous said this on September 3, 2011 at 2:30 PM

    I think people better come clean with the BS stories on the statue.

    From what I’ve heard about the “book burning” it isn’t only the local authorities that are “still investigating” the book burning.

    Best put the matches away.

    Walton

  112. Walton, Wisan hasn’t posted anything because he is not being paid to create the reports to post. Maybe after Mark Shurtleff’s office pays his back wages, he’ll start creating reports for the web site again. Can’t blame Wisan; he doesn’t work for free.

    Anonymous said this on September 3, 2011 at 1:20 PM

    Thanks Anon. No, I sure don’t blame Wisan. Hasn’t Utah cut him a check?

    Who has the deed to the Ranch is it still Wendell? or didn’t he sign it off to his lawyer if the payments weren’t made? Does it all go back to the UEP?

    And what about all the stuff in Canada? And if the Feds follow thru with what they are suppose to in the end will the govt. seize the properties because much of it was obtained thru ill gotten gain?

    What did they do with the property from the Jim Bakker case? or what do they do with the properties that are seized from other criminals?

    Was Warren charged any dollar amount for court costs? was there any dollar amount that he was ordered to pay to the victims Fund?

    How about the other guys? Were they charged any dollar amount? And the wives of those guys were they charged with any involvement? Are they under house arrest? Probation? Treatment?

    Still so many questions.

    Walton

  113. The deed to the ranch is in HOOT currently, but who knows what tomorrow will bring.

    Warren was fined $10,000 the maximum they could fine him.

    Some of the other men were charged a fine. Raymond was $8,000 and I think Leroy was $10,000.

    No wives have been charged at this point, but it really wouldn’t be the wives of the men, it would be the mother of the girl. The wives probably had no clue until hubby brought home a teenybopper.

  114. The wives probably had no clue until hubby brought home a teenybopper.
    ——————————–
    So much for consent, right? If previous wives aren’t even brought into the decision making process, how can it be fully consentual?

  115. With so many people living in one place, they probably just thought it was a child they’d not noticed before! HA!
    All kidding aside….how do you NOT notice a new face at the table or during prayer? I’m presuming they still have daily family prayers in the residence.

  116. Interesting comment about the statue in an article from the Rapid City Journal on Thursday. Last paragraph says the statue is ALREADY in the Creek. WTF?

    Investigator warns: Keep eye on Pringle FLDS

    “”They’re completely supported by people in Shortcreek,” he said. That community on the Utah/Arizona border is hailing Jeffs as a martyr for his religious beliefs, complete with a 38-foot-tall statue of the prophet that it had shipped from Texas to Shortcreek recently.

    In it, Jeffs holds a Bible with one hand and a little girl by the other.”

    Read more: http://rapidcityjournal.com/lifestyles/investigator-warns-keep-eye-on-pringle-flds/article_a4ae258e-d45b-11e0-8540-001cc4c002e0.html#ixzz1Wvw2l1xs

  117. a bible in one hand and a little girl in the other. That’s kind of a strong statement.

  118. Sure is Betty.

  119. All kidding aside….how do you NOT notice a new face at the table or during prayer?
    ———————————–
    I think Emack’s wives were living in CC when he got married in Texas. But I get the point. Which is why I don’t think some of the wives should be let off so easily. If they were pressed, they would probably admit they didn’t have much choice at all. And that would blow the lid off this whole thing.

  120. From what I’ve been told, Emack’s family had no clue he had married a teenybopper and had children with her until he was arrested.

  121. Anybody know how tall the ” water tower ” is now ?? Also flds sheeple had their idol for a number of years, idol went to prison recently, maybe now they’re getting a tangible metal idol !! CAN YOU FIX STUPID ? NO !! lol twisted poster

  122. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8735926/One-in-25-business-leaders-could-be-a-psychopath.html

    this decribes warren to a t.ren to a t.

  123. Are those copper pipes up there for heating and cooling water, maybe killing off algae and stuff?

  124. So has anyone seen that “38-foot-tall statue of the prophet that” “had shipped from Texas to Shortcreek recently” where “Jeffs holds a Bible with one hand and a little girl by the other” Referenced by non @ 6:08 PM?

  125. Anon 10:13 PM, I’m wondering the same thing.

    Also wondering about this post a little while ago on the Texas Polygamy blog:

    “Stopped in to take in the goings on in CC/H. Huge funeral. Anyone know who passed ?”

  126. Info on the “Burning Man” : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_Man
    It is attended by all sorts of people and by all ages. I remember reading that even Robert Kirby was going to attend or had attended the event.

    What was missing in the Rapid City article were quotation marks around the comments about the statue. From the article:

    That community on the Utah/Arizona border is hailing Jeffs as a martyr for his religious beliefs, complete with a 38-foot-tall statue of the prophet that it had shipped from Texas to Shortcreek recently.

    In it, Jeffs holds a Bible with one hand and a little girl by the other.
    —-

    Now why would Warren Jeffs be holding a Bible?

    Anyone making comments about burning a makeshift statue of Warren in front or close to those still in the FLDS are in my opinion more coldhearted and warped in their way of thinking than some of those they so often call “sheeple”.

    I don’t like Warren. I don’t like what many of those have done in these groups. But they still do have family and some of them post here. and for those that have left and are lookiing back remember you were in those same shoes.

    Warren and the other ones are the ones who were on trial or about to face trial. The ones left behind have enough to face without the uglieness that you are showing. imo

    Do you remember the way Pliggy felt? do you remember the way that those kids felt that got tossed out? This is no way to show them that the outside is better. So stop the BS before someone calls this in as a HATE CRIME. which imo it really does sound like imo. From what I remember Utah was already looking at some of those HATE CRIMES inside of the school systems of Utah. And on the streets of Utah.

    IF that thing in Texas is indeed a statue it couldn’t be a statue of Moroni because the LDS had supposedly had that copyrighted. Who knows maybe the LDS is going to take over the Temple completely in Texas.

    Or it could be a tower of Bells and are working to be more like the Monestary that is located in Texas. Whatever that is.. has a base that has an opening for people to get in and out. Which imo means something electrical or plumbing is involved. and built with the intent to hold something heavy. (the base legs are formed)

    Maybe the whole place will be a retirement home and the Burger King has found a new home.

    But there is no way that Warren would order a statue of himself in or out of his mind.

    This whole thing is beyond any other made up story I’ve read in the last 6 years. Enough already.
    Walton

  127. http://youtu.be/yexdTdU28Po Mormon History: LDS (Mormon) Prophet John Taylor 2/2

    I don’t believe in the Practice of Polygamy. I hope it never becomes legal and I hope they don’t decriminalize it.

    Walton

    They don’t have to make a huge sweep. They need to start with one arrest a week. Can’t make babies if the baby maker is in jail. Not enough jails? No problem. There are a few “compounds” that could be seized and rumor has it that some of these guys are well noted for construction.

    Walton

  128. Stopped in to take in the goings on in CC/H. Huge funeral. Anyone know who passed ?”
    ——————————–
    Lee Bistline’s wife, Charlotte, passed not too long ago. Around two weeks ago, I think.

  129. Walton, how do you know there’s no statue? The description of it was pretty detailed. If there is one, it sounds like they’re putting in CC not Texas.

  130. Walton, keep your shirt on. Burning Man is a big hippie event in which they burn a straw “man” in memory of pre-historic British pagan rituals. No one is hurt. To me, the idea of 50,000 hippies partying very close to short creek is pretty funny by itself.

    Burning someone “in effigy” means to make up a copy of that person as a big doll and burn the doll. The Muslims burn the American president “in effigy” on a regular basis. No one is seriously discussing that only a few have joked about it.

    In neither of these types of burning is any actual human harmed. In order to commit a hate crime, someone has to actually be harmed. No one is discussing that. No hate crimes have been committed here nor are they likely.

  131. Sis, It wasn’t Charlotte Bistline who passed away, it was Naomi Bistline, Lee Bistline’s other wife, older sister to Charlotte….you’re right about the time….

  132. I think Warren has been burned in effigy in court – and he did it to himself.

    Its rather funny that report that Warren will have a bible in one hand and a child in another – while I believe they will build an idol of Warren ( to go along with all his pictures they are forced to have in their homes ) I highly doubt he will be foisting a child victim,

    They are stupid, but not THAT stupid.

    And I think the Burning man is going on this coming weekend? If people want to compare that to Warren, I think its appropriate – considering how he was telling his child victims to “feel the all consuming fire”.

  133. Yes, burning man is labor day weekend. Never been, I think Pennsic is probably close enough for me.

  134. I think the fact that the news of the Warren Statue coming out at the same time as the sold out Burning Man 2011 is kind of hilarious – and coincidental on the God level for those who believe that sort of thing.

    If God was ever trying to send the FLDS a message, this is it.

    Will they listen?

    http://www.burningman.com/

  135. I do wish someone from the crick would come on here and confirm or deny the presence of that stoopid statue. Media reports are conflicting.

  136. The Burning Man festival actually started this past Monday and runs for a week – through Labor Day.

  137. Its not going to the crick – that had to be a fake report. The base is being built as seen on the header of this thread.

    That base isnt a water tower. No piping. But Shortcrick might get a smaller version, who knows. They are paying for it all, shouldnt they get a cupie prize?

  138. Oh, give the BS a rest, ZXC. Jeff’s conviction is not a “wound”, it’s JUSTICE. Go preach your garbage at some blog where it is appreciated, you obviously know where to find them.

  139. ZXC

    it is not hate to state and enforce the precept that no religion has the right to deny civil rights to women and children and to sexually assault children.

    they can believe all they want but as citizens of the US they are required to abide by the laws of the US

    The problem with the FLDS is that they have not obeyed the laws of the US in so long they think that they are immune to those laws

  140. It is the FLDS who preach hate. I wonder how Warren is getting along with all of the “seeds of cain” as he calls black people.

  141. ,,,,only hate for a group of people that desire to practice their own religion on their own land with no help from anyone other than themselves…..

    And with the help of millions of State and Federal tax dollars they’ve…”appropriated”… thru various legal and illegal means…. yeah REAL self sufficient!

  142. FLDS, a listed hate group. Don’t matter where they got it from.

  143. I dont know if there has been any worse hate and damage done to the FLDS than that caused by warren steed jeffs.

    With friends like him, who needs enemies?

  144. Sis, It wasn’t Charlotte Bistline who passed away, it was Naomi Bistline, Lee Bistline’s other wife, older sister to Charlotte….you’re right about the time….
    ————————————–
    Thanks for correcting that. I confused the two of them.

  145. I agree Stamp, and his bro Lyle is following in his footsteps.

    It’s scary.

  146. Sis, It wasn’t Charlotte Bistline who passed away, it was Naomi Bistline, Lee Bistline’s other wife, older sister to Charlotte….you’re right about the time….
    ————————————–
    Thanks for correcting that. I confused the two of them.

    Sis said this on September 4, 2011 at 4:46 PM

    I can see how Sis got confused. Usually, someone would just say that Lee Bistline’s wife died. In polygamous families, it is necessary to say the wife’s name and often her number in the pecking order. Sad!

  147. It is the FLDS who preach hate. I wonder how Warren is getting along with all of the “seeds of cain” as he calls black people.

    Proud Texan said this on September 4, 2011 at 12:27 PM
    —–
    I will say it out loud. What book was Warren reading from?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints

    The large majority of black Mormons say they are willing to look beyond the racist teachings and cleave to the church in part because of its powerful, detailed teachings on life after death.

    Walton

  148. Christian Identity (the top “religion” of choice in the Aryan Nations) also teaches “seeds of Cain.”

    Unfortunately, I know a number of people raised in some traditional Bible-based Pentacost churches who were taught the same thing.

    And shall we revisit what came out of some even more traditional churches in the 20th century, particularly the first 50 years?

    Joseph Smith didn’t dream that one up on his own, he simply included it.

  149. me again.

    Crap.

    Have I got to log in and out every time?

  150. Can some of you please come over and answer this question from a reader? I have no idea, and I think it’s important we get interested people answers.
    http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/09/question-what-happens-to-older.html
    THANKS!!!! as always!

  151. TT, I bet your virus protection is wiping your cookies. It was doing that to me and my husband changed some setting on it and it stopped.

  152. Christian Identity (the top “religion” of choice in the Aryan Nations) also teaches “seeds of Cain.”

    Unfortunately, I know a number of people raised in some traditional Bible-based Pentacost churches who were taught the same thing.

    And shall we revisit what came out of some even more traditional churches in the 20th century, particularly the first 50 years?

    Joseph Smith didn’t dream that one up on his own, he simply included it.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Thank you for identifying cultic groups for us.

  153. Texas is burning….interesting!

  154. They had fires this spring too, and other states have fires every summer as well, like CA, AZ and Utah!

    What does it mean?

  155. Texas has been burning for a while, it happens when there is a drought. It’s just one of the weather cycles we go through.

  156. I didn’t see it posted here but the San Angelo Times has an article on the pre-trial hearing for Merril whose trial comes up in Oct.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/sep/01/jessop-argues-definition-of-marriage-in-san/

  157. Interesting statistic on reported sexual abuse in Utah compared to nation to be found in this article 63.7 vs 57.4 per 1000
    They don’t give the margin of error so I don’t know if that is a significant increase or not

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52502384-78/brown-abuse-daughters-family.html.csp

  158. I actually think that Rae Leifeste is going to bring out some different arguements during this trial.

    I like Walthers statement: “You’re seeking to control every word in the state’s mouth, aren’t you?” Walther said, denying Leifeste’s requests.

    Walton

  159. sister wives lawsuit gets answered by Utah

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52527809-78/utah-state-law-motion.html.csp

  160. From that article: U.S. District Judge Clark Waddoups has not yet ruled on the motion. No hearings have been scheduled in the case — though three sealed summons have been served, according to court records.

    Has not yet ruled. lol and ….. Judge Clark Waddoups more lol

    Speaking of Waddoups wasn’t he hearing the lawsuit from the many that were suing different ones concerning the abuse in some of those “teen boot camps” ? I think one of the “investors” was raising money for Mitt Romney?

    And speaking of Romney, has anyone here heard the name Trent Wall?

    I could get dizzy following all the trails.
    Walton

  161. “Rae Leifeste”

    :: spit ::

  162. Obviously not your favorite person Twist?

  163. By my calculations, Warren has until Thursday, September 8 to file either his motion for new trial and/or his notice of appeal.

  164. Nope, PT.

    A good friend of mine lives every day of her life with one of his bad decisions.

  165. “Rae Leifeste”

    :: spit ::

    texastwist said this on September 6, 2011 at 2:01 PM

    lol Come on you know this guy is going to throw some light on to some other issues. It’s a good thing really.

    Definition of marriage?
    one man one woman?
    one man and many women?
    one man and one man?
    one man and many men?
    one woman and one woman?
    one woman and a man and a woman?

    cousin and a cousin?
    Uncle and a neice?
    Step father and a step daughter?

    spiritual?
    Common law?
    Religious or not?

    Legal rights to perform marriages.
    Legal right to perform spiritual marriages?
    Laws against parents performing marriages with their children?
    Legal rights of witnesses?
    Laws against witnesses performing legal marriages
    Laws against witnesses in spiritual marriages to those legally married

    It will be interesting.
    Walton

  166. As his previous life as a judge he made bad decisions.

    People died.

    His career was fried.

    Now he carries baggage for fundies.

  167. Amen, Anon 3:14 pm

  168. Children died.

  169. Are we talking about the same guy? http://www.texasbar.com/am/template.cfm?section=Find_a_Lawyer&Template=/Customsource/MemberDirectory/MemberDirectoryDetail.cfm&contactid=176197

    Walton

  170. Yes, Walton. Same guy.

    Leifeste is a former District Court Judge in Tom Green County.

  171. http://www.texnews.com/1998/2002/local/small0226.html

    And jeez, Louise.

    Another bad penny turns up.

    Jarvis Wright

    I guess we can expect to hear from him again once Merril goes to trial.

  172. Less clinical and more emotional (and more personal) accounts of the results of a bad judicial decision:

    http://www.texnews.com/1998/2002/local/thr0225.html

    http://lubbockonline.com/stories/022802/sta_022802025.shtml

  173. Low and behold, Warren, sick and in ICU, managed to draft a handwritten Motion for New Trial.

  174. Texastwist- I am so very sorry.
    Walton

  175. Low and behold, Warren, sick and in ICU, managed to draft a handwritten Motion for New Trial.

    Proud Texan said this on September 6, 2011 at 7:51 PM

    Yes PT that’s correct, ole Warren has filed an appeal, here’s the SLTrib’s take on the story:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52530139-78/jeffs-trial-motion-prison.html.csp

  176. Her’s the actual text of ole Warrens appeal, silly fool is still representing himself, from the SLTrib:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/52530967-191/trial-religious-full-jeffs.html.csp

    His argument makes no sense at all IMO. A person represents himself has a fool for a client.

  177. WSJ’s not just a fool, he’s an IDIOT representing himself !!!!!!!!

  178. Why is it filed in Schleicher rather than Tom Green? Here, when we change venue, we change venue.

  179. We don’t 3C, stuff continues to go to the original court clerk. She goes with the Judge to wherever it ends up. When it was in Tom Green County, the Schleicher County clerk was in the Courtroom, not the Tom Green County clerk.

  180. Wow. What if the spread was like El Paso county and Harrison County? That’s a big spread for a judge and clerk to cover.

  181. Underage FLDS Marriages with Canadian Ties :

  182. Walton,

    Is cool. The mother of the children is a good friend of mine.

    So bear with my :: spitting :: on the floor when it comes to Merril’s attorney and his piss poor judgment.

  183. “…this yet needing to be performed and fully examined.

    This new trial is in need.”

    Oy, verily.

    Heretofore.

  184. Warren has filed an appeal for a new trial. From the Salt Lake Tribune.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52530139-78/jeffs-motion-trial-prison.html.csp

    “The motion for retrial relies on the violation of religious freedom argument Jeffs made as he represented himself last month. Jeffs, 55, was sentenced to life in prison after he was found guilty of assaulting two girls, ages 12 and 15, whom he took as plural wives.
    The one-page motion is written in the same rambling, archaic style that characterized Jeffs’ speech at trial after he fired his team of high-profile attorneys. It was filed late Friday afternoon and appears to be written on lined, loose-leaf paper.”

  185. I love that he is hanging onto the religious freedom argument. He is too out of touch with the world to pull that sh*t off. He fights for and against his religion in one sentence. ‘It is the Lord’s will for me to marry as many young girls as the Lord sees fit’. (I’m not quoting him, just mimicking him). If he wasn’t retarded, I would laugh at him.

  186. I can only imagine what his appeal is going to look like.

  187. I think we have already seen his appeal. He’s going to read from the Bible and the BOM and then wait for the judge to free him. Then he’s going to be stunned and confused when that does not work.

  188. He made that same arguement in Judge Walther’s court and it did not work. It most probably will not work this time. I agree with Sis that it is good he is hanging onto that same old claim.

  189. He’s filing an appeal ? Great, more free publicity for our cause.

  190. I confess that I will be disappointed if he does not work a scourge or two into his appeal.

  191. Lindsay Whitehurst has the appeal on her blog. A pdf of the handwritten document and the text of the document. Don’t know if it is legal for me to copy the text here. The SLT was touchy about that earlier.

  192. That’s not the appeal chemist, but it is a precursor to the appeal. The actual appeal will be filed with the 3rd court of appeals.

  193. So he still has time to work in some scourges and threats. LOL

  194. I would say this request for a new trial will be denied, and then he will take that as an appeal to the 3rd COA.

    They will laugh. And then wonder how in the hell all these burrs got stuck in their saddle.

    Utah has a lot to answer for!

  195. I think that by filing the motion for new trial it gives him 90 days from the date of sentencing to file his appeal, so there will be lots of time to work scourges and plagues and other such nonsense into his appeal.

  196. Maybe they will get the Warrant statue up in the next three months?

    Nothing like giving the finger to the State right as you head into new trials.

    Dont think thats ever happened before – sure will raise some eyebrows.

    They might raise a statue, too bad they cant raise a good excuse for molesting all those girls.

    On that score they stand empty handed and short sheeted.

  197. I have been reading comments on SLT in response to the Sister Wives polygamy lawsuit against the State of Utah, asking the bigamy law to be overturned.

    It is sad – it is as if nobody ever paid any attention to the WJ trial and the canadian reference case…..

    Adults should be able to do anything they like blah blah, no reference to inherent inequality of women and manipulation of children

  198. IMO:
    None of WSJ’s motions and/or appeals have anything to do with reality; they are for the benefit of his followers. It’s meant to support his march to martyrdom (as sheep perceive it). He does know he’s out of chances in this life.

    Personally, I think he doesn’t believe his own (new) religion; he simply knows how to promote it to the sheep. If he actually believes in an afterlife, he knows he’s a son of perdition, “doomed to suffer the wrath of God, with the devil and his angels in eternity.” (D&C 76:30-49)

    Having said that, it begs the question:
    If he doesn’t believe his own religion, why would he go to all this trouble for all these years?

    Because he’s utterly driven by his sick sexual perversions. When serendipity presented an opportune moment in his young life, he took advantage of it as a personal challenge to conduct a destructive doctrinal proof-of-concept human experiment that – by the way – offered him maximum sexual benefits.

    What I doubt he anticipated was that he could get this far with it before being caught, or that he could continue to wreak as much havoc as he still can and does.

    Hell hath no fury. He is a lost soul (no… a sexual pervert) with nothing to lose.

  199. ET, do you think there was a moment WSJ believed his own religion when he confessed to his brother that he is not the prophet has not held priesthood?

  200. E.Texas do you think that maybe Warren himself might have been molested as a child?
    I do.
    Walton

  201. It seems to me that it would be very hard (unless you are a narcissist) to have this grand plan in your head as you describe E. Texas and not have somebody to gloat with about it……. But then I don’t know anybody like this so what do I know…

    It is just that I need to share important things in my life and get feed back from others

  202. I guess what I really mean,

    If it is all a grand plan to indulge in his sexual perversions while hoodwinking the sheeple, would there be any time/person that he could talk to without the whole prophet persona?

    Like serial killers on t.v. that want to talk about how smart they were…

  203. So.,,,,,if the jeffs is only playing his games to support his own agenda why has he worm sores on his knees or fasted to near death. If someone is pulling a scam there is not much point in continuing the scam in the privacy of a concrete cell well away from the audience.
    In order for jeffs to know that his private prayer sessions or his near death fasting to be effective he would have to know that every action that he displayed in prison would have to be reported to his flock and the reporting would have to satisfy his sexual scam.

  204. I confess that I will be disappointed if he does not work a scourge or two into his appeal.
    ————————————-
    We all know he is taking credit for the fires in Texas, even if he can’t get the proclamation out to us (which is probably killing him).

    My heart goes out to the people down there who have lost their homes, belongings and loved ones. Does anyone know if there is a fund to help those who are displaced?

    BTW, we haven’t heard from ZXC in a while. Didn’t he say he was from Texas?

  205. ZXC said this on September 7, 2011 at 3:40 PM
    —————————-
    Oh, there you are. Glad you’re ok.

  206. ET

    EXLNT insight.

    If he WAS a believer in his freshly minted ways, it must be humbling to see them fail so badly.

    He ruined what was a “good thing” – not necessarily “good”, but hey they were being left alone until they went too far off the reservation.

  207. Sis – this is what they sent home with my child from school today.

    We realize this is short notice, but the need is sudden and certainly great and, if we can try to imagine the devastation of losing our homes in massive wildfires, we can understand how we would appreciate help as well.

    Following is a list of items that are needed and would be appreciated:
    Clothing and shoes. All sizes, from children through adult.
    Detergent
    Toiletries
    Non-perishable food

    They have received quite a bit of bottled water, so they do not need bottled water.

    If you prefer to write out a check as a donation, checks can be made payable to:
    First Presbyterian Church
    300 Burleson Street
    Smithville, Texas 78959
    (with a notation on the check of “Disaster Relief Fund.”)

    If you would like to send gift cards along,
    please send gift cards in smaller increments. ($50 or lower.)

  208. ZXC, up until now I think Warren always thought he’d get out, so he had to keep up the show to keep the sheeple in line behind him. I think now he realizes his goose is cooked. He isn’t really in the hospital now from fasting, it is from other medical problems. They will keep him there until they are sure he is healthy and able to move back to his cell in Palestine.

  209. Walking talking in front of the camera dirt mover Willie Jessop is going to be on Dr. Phil. Not sure of the date but I just saw an advertisement.

    I hope it is one of those 2 hour specials.

    Walton

  210. ET, do you think there was a moment WSJ believed his own religion when he confessed to his brother that he is not the prophet has not held priesthood?
    Third Cousin said this on September 7, 2011 at 2:55 PM

    My only qualification to jump in with an opinion here is experience watching another religious leader rise, set standards it turned out he himself was unable to meet and then fall – to his own great surprise.

    I think he does believe – and also realizes he’s a fraud. He probably felt favored by God because he got away with so much for so long. When he was arrested, I think he thought God was punishing him – and that if he repented, God would forgive him and restore him to his favored status. I think that also explains the hours of prayer, the fasting, etc. as well.

    This was a guy who thought God was going to reveal a special recipe for concrete, after all! Why would he make something like that up?

    When God fails to favor him in some way, he probably genuinely blames the people for prompting the disfavor. God would never hold back blessings just on Warren’s behalf. It must be the people’s fault!

    The abuse just stems from his egotism. No one else matters but him. God gave him control over these people – so clearly he can deal with them however he sees fit. He probably believes God wants what he wants – and if he sometimes helps God along by throwing out the occasional untruth – what are a few lies between close friends and allies?

    I knew a woman whose husband told her in all apparent sincerity that God wanted him to be happy – and so should she. She should not object to his ongoing affair with a younger woman – and it should not affect either his marriage nor his standing in the church. Similar way of looking at the world, I think. It’s not even all that uncommon, unfortunately.

    WSJ is not the only one to believe himself to be God’s favored child – nor to view all the wealth and privileges he managed to suck from his church as proof of that favor. He just happened to be in a position to do more damage than most.

  211. Thanks, PT.

  212. http://www.drphil.com/ Watch the clip that shows a little preview of some of the shows coming up.

    I’ve seen people lie to Dr. Phil on his show. And he calls them on it right then and there. 🙂

    Walton

  213. I think Warren fits the following statement by Mark Twain: “Faith is believing what you know ain’t so.” I believe if we lie to ourselves, our brain rewires itself to where we believe our lies, and I feel Warren did that.

  214. Sam Brower tells it like it is.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-brower/sister-wives-_b_952693.html

    Walton

  215. Attention >

    We will be having a Kegger / Heavenly Session At R 2.5 in Centennial Pk Tomorrow ( Aug. 8th ) To canonize our new leadership in the area.

    Please feel free to bring Munchies etc . This could go into the wee hrs.

    R 2.5 is … Just listen for the loud music And look for the bonfire.

    Thanks MGMT

  216. walton, I think the Dr. Phil show airs the 3rd week in September. Sam Brower and Brent Jeffs are on the show, too. It should be lively! And lets DO hope that Dr. Phil calls Willie the Thug on his lies.

  217. I will need a full report on the Kegger/Heavenly Session at R2.5 as I will be unable to attend. Burning question though, will there be group sex in the baptismal font?

  218. If I hadn’t been kicked out of the Telestial Kingdom and sent back down last Spring shortly after the rapture I could have reported on the R2.5 event from there, which might have been awfully enlightening for all of us. Still echoing in my head are RTJ’s words “I want my job back.”

  219. Sucks when ya get kicked out of places, doesn’t it.

  220. Good one PT.

  221. Attention Everyone >

    There will be No Sex But .. We will have a Group Hug in Honor of our fallen comrades ..

    Till Then Live @ R2.5

  222. walton, I think the Dr. Phil show airs the 3rd week in September. Sam Brower and Brent Jeffs are on the show, too. It should be lively! And lets DO hope that Dr. Phil calls Willie the Thug on his lies.

    Anonymous said this on September 7, 2011 at 8:36 PM

    someone had mentioned that Brent was going to be on. I didn’t know that Sam and Willie would be there. 🙂 I really hope it is a 2 hour show.

    Walton

  223. No sex!!! What’s up with that? Is the baptismal font booked for a previous engagement? We really need to sit down and plan better because you obviously didn’t get the right definition of “heavenly session”.

  224. We always knew Warren was a queer little prick. Sorry he is costing you all so much of your tax dollars finding this whole story out. Bout time I say. And Thanks Warren Jeffs for clearing out the rest of the weak minded followers of of our lives. Theres a new sheriff in town and his name is Mr. B.

    Get involved or Stand Back

  225. Here’s another FLDS dude who going to be making that trip to Huntsville,TX. Pretrial hearing coming up, this one has an attorney out of Longview, TX that will be representing him.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/sep/07/pretrial-hearing-arrives-for-steed/

    This ones name is Leroy Johnson Steed. He’s got other charges as well, he could end up doing more time than that felonious profit Warren Jeffs.

  226. This is the handwriting of a mentally Ill person. The almost illegible note shows clearly he is in his wounded child.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/52530967-191/trial-religious-full-jeffs.html.csp

  227. http://youtu.be/zdA__2tKoIU Be sure to drink your Ovaltine

    Walton

  228. Here’s a youtube video posted by the Eldorado Success newspaper;

    It shows the people of Eldorado, TX enjoying their football homecoming, the young people in Eldorado so different from the people their own age just a few miles up the road at YFZ. No prairie dresses or males wearing long sleeve shirts to be seen. No child brides or lost boys, only young people looking forward to life. If only the young people at YFZ & Short Creek could have the freedom to enjoy this part of life in the free world.

  229. the Darger/Adams book people will be on Dr. Phil the same week, sometime around Sept. 20-21

  230. anonymous at 10:50 pm
    I don’t follow your post. What do you mean the new sheriff is Mr. B. and are you celebrating the fact that others are finding out that Warren is sick and therefore that they are not going to follow Lyle Steed, meaning those of your remaining are better? If so doesn’t that make you even sicker for having agreed to the depravity of Warren?

  231. I looked at Warren’s motion for a retrial…. wow. I am not so sure he’s faking it. it might be part of a plan to show his followers how much of a martyr he is, but if so, that’s some pretty serious dedication.

    I also put up a couple posts on my blog, if you’d like to check it out or whatever. http://wp.me/1wweu

  232. http://youtu.be/Opb4I3nZD5I Three’s Company Promo from KTTV Los Angeles (1989)

    Three consenting adults who don’t sleep with one another but love each other very much.

    A Texan- I am beginning to wonder if there are any kids at the YFZ compound. I wonder if they didn’t ship them all off to Colorado.

    Walton

  233. yehaaa – I read your blog post and once again I thought it was great. Thank you for sharing as much as you do. I wished I lived closer. I would invite John over for a meal or two. And maybe ask him to help me work on my vehicle. Or I might just ask John if he would want to go fishing sometime.

    In some areas they have a Big Brothers program. It really sounds like it would be a good program to start in that area. Ask around and let me know what you find out.

    Thanks yehaaa
    Walton

  234. Walton, thanks for that trip down memory lane. I love that show.

    Here’s a great Three’s Company montage. The end is perfect. I would love to see Sisterwives go out like that.

  235. Leroy Johnson Steed

    I think his trial will be interesting and not solely because of his additional charge of tampering with evidence.

  236. That is powerful writing, yehaaa.

    For what it’s worth, Christmas excesses bother me, too, and I hate the Super Bowl. I never have seen the television show Survivor and I won’t watch American Idol or any of the reality shows.

  237. I agree with you on the Cheistmas thing. We gave up buying presents for children and gchildren years ago. If one of my favorite teams is in the SB, I will watch it. Otherwise I have no interest in it. The nice thing is that we can make those choices as opposed to the flds where the choices are made for them. That loss of agency, the freedom to choose for yourself is one of many things that bothers me about the flds and similar groups.

  238. Twist, it was agreed that this first trial will be on the sexual assault charges only. It will be interesting to see how they object to the evidence given the Court of Appeals upheld the search warrants.

  239. Yes, I don’t get modern Christmas, either. The Christmas I had as a child was quite different. And I hate football and rarely watch the super bowl. The only time I watched in years was to watch the Saints, because I have a thing for New Orleans.

  240. I also don’t understand why pumpkins for carving (which naturally get ripe here in mid to late October) are on sale now with adds for Halloween. It’s odd enough to me to have a fall celebration when it’s still getting up in the 90’s some days, but to put a VEGETABLE on your porch in this heat and expect it to last 6 weeks is just short of insane. Why do you need to have a fall celebration before it’s actually, you know, FALL? How busy is your life that you need to shop and decorate 6 weeks ahead of time? I understand why retail people want to offer stuff for sale, what I don’t get is why anybody BUYS it.

  241. Betty,

    I saw Halloween candy on the shelves three weeks ago when the temperature was 110+.

    That’s the nature of retail anymore.

    PT,

    I figured that was the case with LSJ’s charges.

    I’m thinking there may be some evidence introduced on the sexual assault charge beyond the DNA that will be high in the disturbing factors. If not during the guilt phase, there may be some things in his bad acts that will expand on the whole sordid story.

    I’m betting he will draw a very long sentence after what is almost guaranteed as a conviction considering the evidence against him.

  242. I’m waiting for the bad acts to come out on Steed. I haven’t seen them as of yet.

  243. On today’s date in 2002 Rulon Timpson Jeffs died in St. George at the age of 92 and proceeded into “the next room.”

    I’d be interested in people’s memories of that time.

    http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/saltlaketribune/obituary.aspx?n=rulon-t-jeffs&pid=482583&fhid=4515

  244. Hey… apologies for my previous hit-and-run post; I’m traveling.

    I always state outright that what I say is my personal opinion. I am not a psychologist, nor in law enforcement, nor am I an expert of any sort. I am related to Warren (as some on this forum know); I do have a little more insight into his beginnings and the family dynamics under which he was raised. However, having an FLDS insider’s experience doesn’t make me an expert either. Like most people, I seek understanding about human behavior and life in general. And I believe we will never completely understand Warren Steed Jeffs.

    That said, I’ll try to address the questions elicited by my previous post with another apology for the length.
    =================

    #ET, do you think there was a moment WSJ believed his own religion when he confessed to his brother that he is not the prophet has not held priesthood?
    Third Cousin said this on September 7, 2011 at 2:55 PM

    ———

    I don’t know when he might have authentically believed his own religion (other than when he was very young); but if he experienced anything like I did, there is always that niggling voice in one’s subconscious, “What if they are right? What if it’s true?” Repentance was always available if one didn’t go TOO far astray. At some point he KNEW he’d gone too far.

    I also believe his beliefs might have been affected by drugs. That is based on things I’ve heard from reliable sources, adding in (possible) other health issues and then putting 2 and 2 together chronologically.

    =================

    E.Texas do you think that maybe Warren himself might have been molested as a child? I do.
    Walton

    ———

    Yes, Walton, I too think that is probable. I have not encountered a polygamous family – especially one that crowds everyone under the same roof — where various levels of sexual hanky-pank were not going on. What can you expect when there is no sex education given? There are huge kid-to-adult ratios, older children taking care of younger ones, and a great deal of curiosity staunched by horrid levels of secrecy to go along with a lot of “Thou shalt nots” (which only serve to promote ever more curiosity and fooling around among many sibs and other relatives).

    =================

    It seems to me that it would be very hard (unless you are a narcissist) to have this grand plan in your head as you describe E. Texas and not have somebody to gloat with about it……
    hellohellogoodbye said this on September 7, 2011 at 3:23 PM

    ———

    You basically nail it when you say (unless you are a narcissist).
    He IS a narcissist… and a sociopath (IMO). He doesn’t need to gloat with anyone else. Everyone else is inferior. Why do you think he wrote down everything he said and did in his dictations, kept recordings, took pictures etc? Those are / were his outlet and his trophies to and of himself and kept secured for only HIS access (with Naomie as his only other real confidante).

    =================

    #So.,,,,,if the jeffs is only playing his games to support his own agenda why has he worm [sic] sores on his knees or fasted to near death. If someone is pulling a scam there is not much point in continuing the scam in the privacy of a concrete cell well away from the audience.
    In order for jeffs to know that his private prayer sessions or his near death fasting to be effective he would have to know that every action that he displayed in prison would have to be reported to his flock and the reporting would have to satisfy his sexual scam.
    ZXC said this on September 7, 2011 at 3:40 PM

    ———

    Warren IS a narcissist. He controls all the information that reaches his flock. They only know what they are being told by (at this time) his brother, Lyle (the Bishop).

    You tell me: do you think the flock is going to hear about his extreme masturbatory practices? Or that he tried to kill himself? Or that he made those confessions in 2007? Even if someone in the flock DOES hear anything, it’s all explained away one way or another. He’s being persecuted by wicked servants of the devil. He suffers for you who are not exerting enough faith in his behalf. He is a magnificent martyr for truth, etc., etc.

    =================

    Jerrie, you said “The abuse just stems from his egotism.”
    I would change the word “egotism” to “narcissism.” Does anyone know what causes narcissm? I don’t.

    But here are a few links based on a Google search for the term (since I’ve mentioned it so often):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder

    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/narcissistic-personality-disorder/DS00652/DSECTION=symptoms

    I’ll quote from the following link:
    http://my.clevelandclinic.org/disorders/personality_disorders/hic_narcissistic_personality_disorder.aspx
    .

    In many cases, people with narcissistic personality disorder:

    * Are self-centered and boastful
    * Seek constant attention and admiration
    * Consider themselves better than others
    * Exaggerate their talents and achievements
    * Believe that they are entitled to special treatment
    * Are easily hurt but might not show it
    * Might take advantage of others to achieve their goals

    Other common traits of narcissistic personality disorder include the following:

    * Preoccupation with fantasies that focus on unlimited success, power, intelligence, beauty, or love
    * Belief that he or she is “special” and unique, and can only be understood by other special people
    * Expectation that others will automatically go along with what he or she wants
    * Inability to recognize or identify with the feelings, needs, and viewpoints of others
    * Envy of others or a belief that others are envious of him or her
    * Hypersensitivity to insults (real or imagined), criticism, or defeat, possibly reacting with rage, shame, and humiliation
    * Arrogant behavior and/or attitude

    What causes narcissistic personality disorder?

    The exact cause of narcissistic personality disorder is not known. However, many mental health professionals believe it results from extremes in child rearing. For example, the disorder might develop as the result of excessive pampering, or when a child’s parents have a need for their children to be talented or special in order to maintain their own self-esteem. On the other end of the spectrum, narcissistic personality disorder might develop as the result of neglect or abuse and trauma inflicted by parents or other authority figures during childhood. The disorder usually is evident by early adulthood.

    You tell me if most if not all of that doesn’t fit what we know about WSJ.

    In Warren’s case the disorder WAS evident by early adulthood. You can look to his biological mother for all kinds of special treatment.

  245. Warren has traveled quite a road in the relatively short time since his father died.

    He has also left a great amount of damage in his wake.

  246. He is the FLDS bull in a china shop.

    Cant think historically of any one man who has done so much damage.

    Ervil LeBaron left a legacy of 25 dead, but Warren’s actions in a way are worse, hundreds and hundreds of torn lives.

    Maybe they can start to heal with him in prison now,.

  247. Yep, Chaps, Warren’s dead are still walking.

  248. TT, The shelf life of candy inside in the air conditioning is a lot different from the life of a real pumpkin on your front porch in the sun. And although I agree that is the way retail works, that doesn’t mean I have to like it, or even understand it.

  249. Appears that trial of Leroy Johnson Steed is going to have a change of venue out of San Angelo & Eldorado,TX. According to news reports the case can be moved to another seventh Administrative Judicial Region in Texas. Most counties in this region are small population wise with exception of Midland, Ector, Taylor and Brown counties. The cities of Midland & Odessa are large enough as well as Abilene and Brownwood to host this type of trial IMO.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/sep/08/trial-of-flds-member-could-be-moved/

    http://www.courts.state.tx.us/7ajr/7ajr.asp

    Of course Judge Walther could surprise us by having trial moved to one of the small rural population counties, but IMO it will be one of the larger population counties to insure a large jury pool.

  250. She was talking Coke County for Merril’s trial. That’s Robert Lee.

  251. I don’t know if you folks saw this article on Huffington Post. It has yesterday’s date on it.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sam-brower/sister-wives-_b_952693.html?page=1

  252. http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/8946c231899f4d0ba49335b456571cd3/TX–Polygamist-Slayings/#share

  253. E.Texas,
    Thank you for your insight into WSJ. I believe you do have experience within the family that can shed light on his behavior. Can you explain more re: his bio Mother’s relationship with him and others?

  254. BIB
    I have been trying to track down the article you posted analyzing polygamous vs non polygamous marriages in the 1800s Utah mormons
    Could you repost the link?
    HHG

  255. HHG, here is the link :

  256. ET, didn’t Warren’s mother have a family history of psychiatric illness ?

  257. Here is an article which might interest you ET : Psychiatric Comorbidity in Pedophiles :

  258. Hmm – anxiety: narcissistic, obsessive compulsive ….. comorbidity in pedophiles… jeffs sounds like a perfect fit in the group

  259. The DNA union of Alma Dayer LeBaron and Maud Lucinda MacDonald, exacerbated by living circumstances, produced an amazing amount of psychiatric illness in an amazing number of the children. I wonder if it even has precedent. Unfortunate genes, bad luck, and cloistered circumstances secondary to the persecution syndrome.

    Reminds me of what my husband’s doctor told him about his cholesterol: you should have chosen your parents more carefully.

  260. On today’s date in 2002 Rulon Timpson Jeffs died in St. George at the age of 92 and proceeded into “the next room.”

    I’d be interested in people’s memories of that time.

    Third Cousin said this on September 8, 2011 at 9:53 AM

    This information comes second-hand, as it was told to me. Rulon Jeffs was taken to the St. George hospital. Warren went into the room (for a period of time) alone with Rulon. Warren came out of Rulon’s room and said that his father had proclaimed that he – Warren – had received the priesthood keys from his father.

    The hospital attendant said that Rulon was already dead 30 minutes before Warren went into the hospital room, alone, and “received” the priesthood keys from Rulon.

  261. Anybody heard any progress on the ” statue ” & it’s destination lately ?

  262. @BiB, Very interesting! … thank you!

    @hhg, Ditto!

  263. You know, Anon, yesterday I was reading the Phood records from 2003 of WSJ reflecting on the year anniversary of his father’s death and he describes what happened at the hospital. No mention of any 30 minutes of course. But folks can read the record for themselves:

    http://phrecords.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/sept-6-2003.pdf

  264. So Tarsa LeBaron gets 3 years in prison for her practicing blood atonement – 4 cold-blooded murders; which included the murder of an innocent 8-year-old little girl? ARRRRGGGG.

  265. Yup, although she was not a trigger-puller as I recall. But nevertheless.

  266. @BiB: Yes, it is my understanding there was mental illness in both W.W.Steed’s and his brother, Newell Steed’s families… one or more of their wives, including WSJ’s maternal grandmother.

    I have no specific details. Most of what I’m aware of was via hearing it when I was very young. It stuck with me. But, I’ve asked questions regarding the subject more recently which corroborated the same. Nevertheless, I do put it in the category of hearsay. So I suppose the real answer is ‘I’m not really sure.’

  267. Reminds me of what my husband’s doctor told him about his cholesterol: you should have chosen your parents more carefully.

    Third Cousin said this on September 8, 2011 at 11:25 PM

    HA HA HA! Thanks Third Cousin, I can always rely on you for my laugh of the day.

  268. Glad to be uplifting to you, anon!

  269. Third Cousin, I followed your http://phrecords.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/sept-6-2003.pdf link and it opened 50 pages of Warren’s drivel. Can you PLEASE tell me a specific page number to go to to read Warren’s dissertation reflecting on his father’s death?

  270. Oh crap, Anon. It is cumbersome, but you have a couple choices:

    (1) scroll down until you see 09/07/2003 (not 09/08, which is the actual death anniversary); or

    (2) try googling the following and see what comes up with a worldpress address: “”september 7″ flds.”

    Unfortunately, to my knowledge you can’t provide a more specific link – however, the particular set of writings begin on Sept 7 – so you won’t have to scroll down very far. I actually recommend reading the 7th also as a prelude.

    If this doesn’t work for you I have other possible methods. I don’t want you missing a thing.

  271. Actually, if page numbers matter for your search, it would begin around page 77 for those date. I don’t think that’s going to help. If it doesn’t, let me know.

  272. BIB, or whoever is qualified:

    Help us out with the hereditary part of mental illness: is there an exponential factor if you happen to cross certain problematic genetic material? And is there a particular place you get your marbles from – my hairdresser swears you get your hair from your paternal grandfather.

  273. “She was talking Coke County for Merril’s trial. That’s Robert Lee.”

    Works for me.

    A hop, skip and a jump from Starbucks.

  274. Dont know if this is a repost, Warren got a typewriter and chicken pecked out his appeal, and Detoto / Udashen’s both filed to escape the imbroglio.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52546926-78/jeffs-trial-attorneys-withdraw.html.csp

  275. Lindsay Whitehurst has a new blog entry talking about the Book Burning.

    She imo did a great job gathering up some info. Thank you Lindsay Whitehurst.

    One of my biggest issues with this has been that people were getting blamed for something they didn’t do. The first target would be the FLDS as a whole. The next target would be the “kids” that are neither here nor there.

    Before all the facts came out, it sounded as if they burned ALL the books. Anyone following the stories knew that there were a LOT of books in that building. For those books to have burned the flames should have been seen in the next county and firetrucks called. None were called out.

    No police reports of anyone calling a fire.

    Another HUGE issue with this story are the books themselves. Many were taken to the DI and some were taken to libraries. What happened to those books given to the DI?

    I know for a fact that those with the HOPE.org has worked very hard at getting items for those leaving Polygamy. I would hope that if those books were sold at the DI that the DI would cut the HOPE.org a check for any books sold out of those 12,000.

    The books donated to the libraries are made available for EVERYONE which is a good thing.

    I still think that the towns could use a little newspaper. Or a weekly flyer talking about the latest news. Who got married/obit. Crops/ what’s new at the corner of such and such. And imo I think Isaac Wyler would be a great person to start it all off. one camera and a computer with printer.

    Photos of the school bus going by, photos of the teen kids playing basketball, photos of Granma’s biggest squash ever. Stories about how hard those in the community are working at “sprucing things up”. Comments from the local LE. A little spot for history notes.

    Or something so simple as a blog to start out with.

    There is a need to hear both sides of every story. imo

    Walton

  276. Stamp – I read that and thought it strange that Warren was already allowed a typewriter in his cell. Wonder what favors were called in?

    lol

    Walton

  277. http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Opinion+Trip+Texas+will+help+Mounties+their/5374172/story.html

    Daphne Bramham weighs in.

  278. Walton

    IRT the books, it was erroneously reported they were ALL burned – that didnt happen, but they were all DISPOSED of.

    Considering the story they were contaminated with poison, dont you think that is a little disconcerting? They were going to give contaminated – poisoned books to the community?

    This was done when the FLDS had something like two days, the UEP back in their hands while the courts errr Dee Benson fumbled the issue.

    So its obvious to all, giving the UEP back to FLDS control would just ramp up the abuse and they wouldnt waste any time for any such nonsense as being reasonable, lucid or fair.

    Why do you think Warren and his posse are cruising the Cellosteel Kingdom?

    Its what they do.

  279. Xlent article by Daphne!

    Wish the FBI was on the job too!

    =================

    “Both were American, but evidence compiled in Texas indicates that at least five of Jeffs’ 24 underage wives are Canadian

    and that Jeffs had presided over more than 550 bigamous or polygamous marriages including 100 involving girls under the age of 18.”

    Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Opinion+Trip+Texas+will+help+Mounties+their/5374172/story.html#ixzz1XSHsWjwD

  280. Actually they never had it back in their hands. Dee Benson never had the authority to override the decision of the State court.

  281. Right, they THOUGHT they had it back, and as Rod Parker prophetically claimed…

    “Dont get too excited!”

    OOPS!

  282. Stamp what do you mean? Wild Bill was the only one that said the books were “poisoned”. And I think the only reason he said that is because there were measle outbreaks being reported in Utah at that time.

    The books were given to the Hope.org by many different groups of people. The FLDS had no contact with those books.

    What did you mean when you said this: “Why do you think Warren and his posse are cruising the Cellosteel Kingdom?

    Its what they do.”

    please, Just say it straight out because I am not understanding.

    Walton

  283. “Considering the story they were contaminated with poison, dont you think that is a little disconcerting? They were going to give contaminated – poisoned books to the community?”

    Stamp said this on September 9, 2011 at 6:48 AM

    During this time they had a lockdown at Dugway. A vial was reportedly missing and there was concern about it having been taken outside the walls of Dugway.

    There also reports that some people were “vacationing” overseas and that they might have brought “measles” back with them. From what I understood those were members of the LDS out and about doing “mission work”.

    Walton

  284. ill bill came up with that story from somewhere – as he was chatting up the FLDS at the time, I presume they gave him that story. I dont think he made it up on his own.

    But he has been known to lie about many things, so even if we take that issue off the table, still, they disposed of these books meant for the good of the community and bill wasnt involved in that in any way.

    There is no acceptable excuse. Not one.

    And my point about Warren and his posse, is the leaders will always be abusers, whether its child brides, arranged marriages, split families, kicking people out, they JUST DONT CARE they will abuse anyone if it furthers their evil ways.

    This book issue was just a little sample of the way they operate, the child rapes were the example that got them in prison.

  285. There also reports that some people were “vacationing” overseas and that they might have brought “measles” back with them. From what I understood those were members of the LDS out and about doing “mission work”.
    Walton
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Measles virus cannot live on books or any other surface outside a host organism for a prolonged period of time. See the CDC website.

  286. Right, they THOUGHT they had it back. In reality they didn’t, but when has reality ever bothered the FLDS.

  287. Help us out with the hereditary part of mental illness: is there an exponential factor if you happen to cross certain problematic genetic material? And is there a particular place you get your marbles from – my hairdresser swears you get your hair from your paternal grandfather.

    Third Cousin said this on September 9, 2011 at 1:06 AM

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    There is no particular parent you get your marbles from…
    As for the first question about the hereditary part of mental illness, your question is too general for me to provide a specific response. Sam Brower said in his book that Warren’s mother’s family had a family history of psychosis.

  288. BiB I understand that. It was my understanding that some of those people that had been overseas had carried it from those who did not have their shots. Some students and teachers in Utah were asked to stay away until they could bring their shot records up to date. imo a normal response for any type of communicable disease.

    There was also stories of a vial or vials missing from Dugway. The place was on a lockdown. There was a lot of talk about anthrax etc and other things.


    Colgrove had told Johnson that she gave the school house back because it didn’t look like the library thing would work out. If Colgrove did NOT make that statement to Johnson she should go to the DA office and ask that she be given the chance to give a statement under oath. At that point the DA can look into the actions of the police officer and if need be further investigate.

    Did she give the school house back with or without books?

    Walton

  289. The rational way to proceed is to get a consultation from an infectious disease specialist, or call the CDC in. Burning books is unnecessary.

  290. BIB,
    yesterday I thought I posted a comment thanking you for the article link on polygamous vs monogamous marriages in the 1800s Mormon Utah.
    Thanks again.

    I like this article because it provides hard data showing that polygamous wives, age adjusted etc., had fewer children than monogamous wives which could be predicted from biological theories on stress of competition.

    It excellently refutes the idea that “polygamy back then” was different and better and awesome etc.

  291. more on the trespassing case

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700177467/Attorney-says-judge-should-toss-polygamous-trust-case.html

  292. From all that I’ve read about the FLDS and their ” work ethic” and the amazing things they can do in the middle of the night taking buildings apart and such.. I really doubt that if their intent was to “burn the books” that they would have stopped with a few of Colgroves personal family history boosk and a few medical ones.

    Now, I understand that there are many from CPark and elsewhere that would like to see the FLDS leave the area completly or… dress the part of those alike in CPark.

    As of right now, I don’t think anyone has filed an insurance claim.

    The books were brought into the DI already on pallets and shrink wrapped.

    My concern was that some of these kids with nothing to do got a bee in their bonnet and wanted to have some fun. But kids with bees in their bonnet aren’t so careful. and they surely aren’t going to drive miles out of their way to deliver books to places that would make sure others had the chance to enjoy them.

    So I am not ready to blame the kids for doing something they might have been told to do.

    The FLDS would have had nothing to gain by doing any of the above. But other groups would.

    As for the people that did actually move the books? I am thinking that they too might have been given some bad advice. And I am sure that they wished they would never have gotten involved. but I don’t think it is fair that one group gets blamed for what another did.

    I know that the guy in the Safety Net meeting took a tounge lashing from Paul Murphy but the guy who got the tounge lashing wasn’t FLDS.

    Walton

  293. FLDS kids dont do this kind of thing without orders from leaders, do they?

    I thought about it, that doesnt make sense. It must have been ordered by someone in a leadership position.

    You dont go through all the labor of piling and wrapping pallets, loading with a forklift on a truck, and paying about 4 bucks a gallon for gas to drive RT 150 miles to dispose of books…

    Not to mention whose truck is that. This wasnt kids idea, this was a big undertaking.

    Oh of course I wouldnt be surprised children were used to do the bulk of the work, but someone was giving them orders.

  294. Fortunately the books that were given to DI and to the Cedar City library were retrieved. No idea where they are now or if the CC library project is still breathing.

  295. Merril’s trial has been moved to Coke County and will start October 31.

  296. Warrens bigamy trial set for Oct.31 is now set for Jan. 15, 2012
    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/sep/09/jeffs-trial-date-set-back-3189-months/

    Anon @12:27 It was a big undertaking of sorts.

    The same kinda thing about one of Willies wives being kicked out of a home by someone whose name wasn’t even on the lease agreement. Neither party was suppose to be living there. I think the home belonged to Colgroves brother.

    I never did hear what happened on that deal. If Willie had a couple of his wives move in together or what.

    I think the cops were called on that deal and an arrest warrant was put out for Lyle and or Willie. At least that is what the stories were in the newspaper.

    The FLDS were suppose to have their papers all in a row by the 6th of this month and there was talk about some meeting in Colorado. Haven’t heard any more.

    Walton

  297. Willie says he is a changed man. Do you guys remember this? http://www.childbrides.org/holdem_SAST_Willie_Jessop_pleads_the_5th.html

    Merril pled the 5th 267 times and Willie 110. If Willie truly was a changed man he should be singing like a bird and minding his p’s and q’s and not tampering with mailboxes.

    Another thing I don’t understand is if the different groups of construction outfits are tied in with all this why are they still getting Federal contracts. or why are they even allowed to be bidding on them.

    A few weeks ago Willie said he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars defending Warren? Hope the tax man heard that.

    What ever happened to Geidion Barlows dad and the whole social security issue? anyone know?
    Walton

  298. WOO HOOO

    Just got news that we are about to get a new City !

    The wheels of justice move way to slow for me

    Geez I am beginning to believe in God

  299. It wasn’t Willie’s wife, it was Will’s wife, Ruth. So far nothing has been done, but that has a lot to do with the trespass case, I think. If it is thrown out it will show that Wisan has the authority to enforce his leases.

    The ones who tool the books were FLDS, make no mistake about it, if it was CPers the FLDS police would be all over it.

  300. what new city?

  301. Merril’s case was moved to Coke County which is Robert Lee.

  302. Here is a great article by Rebecca Kimbel. Please read it and recommend it. Her words are wise, and succinctly put together almost everything we know to be true about polygamy.

    http://tripleap.blogspot.com/2011/09/polygamy-is-adult-choice.html

  303. Today at the Warren Jeffs hearing, when he came on the line Judge Walther asked him if he would like a continuance of his bigamy case from it’s Oct 3 setting. He said yes. When she asked how long he was requesting he didn’t answer, so she asked the State and Angela Goodwin said 90 or 120 days. She said 90 days would put us close to Christmas, so she set it for Jan 6. Then she asked Irene what the date was for the 2nd Tuesday in February. Irene answered that it would be Feb 14. When she said that the whole courtroom burst out laughing and Judge Walther said “Let’s pick another day”, so she picked February 15.

  304. what new city?

    hellohellogoodbye said this on September 9, 2011 at 3:34 PM

    Zion Texas? stop signs, all the windpower towers, saving texas money.

    Zion Utah? all the rezoning?

    Zion Arizona? new stuff always going on in Arizona

    I bet it is Zion Texas. Photos to follow. Wild Bill at gate with straw hat holding welcome sign. Bobby Ewing sitting in swing on a deck with Pam and Patrica Keate drinking lemonade.

    J.R. and JD flying in helicopter landing on airstrip at the Ranch.

    Big Love cast along with the loving em all Sister Wives are soon to be joined by the Dargers for marry em all wedding of a lifetime.

    wow.

    Walton

  305. PT – thanks for the trial synopsis – I could see how that would make the court laugh

  306. Walton, you aren’t making any sense.

  307. Walton, you aren’t making any sense.

    Proud Texan said this on September 10, 2011 at 12:16 AM

    Nor does Walton know WTF he/she is talking about RE the burned and stolen library books.

  308. Nor does Walton know WTF he/she is talking about,,,

    Anonymous said this on September 10, 2011 at 1:55 AM

    So what else is new?

  309. Nor does Walton know WTF he/she is talking about RE the burned and stolen library books.

    Anonymous said this on September 10, 2011 at 1:55 AM

    I don’t have a problem with someone correcting me if I am wrong about things. I usually come back and thank the person.

    Correct the part that is wrong.
    Walton

  310. Jacqueline LeBaron gets 3 year prison sentence and ordered to pay $134,000 restitution. From SLT article.

  311. Walton, I’ll start with this:

    “The books were brought into the DI already on pallets and shrink wrapped.” No, the FLDS just brought in boxes of donated books. The DI palletized the books, shrink-wrapped them and then put them in a sea container.

    “The FLDS would have had nothing to gain by doing any of the above. But other groups would.” No, the crime was committed by the FLDS, not any other groups. The FLDS’ own attorney, Rod Parker, stated in an article in the Salt Lake Tribune on April 24, 2011 that they had removed the books from the library building and taken them to places in Cedar City and St. George.

    “As for the people that did actually move the books? I am thinking that they too might have been given some bad advice. And I am sure that they wished they would never have gotten involved. but I don’t think it is fair that one group gets blamed for what another did.” The people who moved the books probably did so on Warren Jeffs’ orders after the FLDS thought they had the UEP Trust back. I highly doubt “that they wished they would never have gotten involved” – they were probably just following orders.

    “I don’t think it is fair that one group gets blamed for what another did.”
    The books were removed by the FLDS – again it is not one group getting “blamed for what another did.”

  312. If the FLDS thought the books were truly “infected,” why did they donate the books to DI ? Were they trying to “infect” the LDS charity ministry ?

  313. I don’t believe that anybody ever thought the books were infested/infected with anything.

  314. To the best of my knowledge, the only source for the books being infected was Bill M’s blog. His story was widely ridiculed on other blogs.

  315. We are left with the fact the FLDS tried to pull a fast one, and in the act exposed themselves as abusers, yet again.

  316. I don’t believe that anybody ever thought the books were infested/infected with anything.

    Third Cousin said this on September 10, 2011 at 8:42 AM
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    I agree. I think the party or parties who suggested that the books were burned in order to eradicate an infectious disease were clearly lying. If they were truly concerned about the transmission of disease, they would not have packed the books up and sent them to DI.

  317. unless you consider “knowledge” and “learning” to be an infectious disease. and in a way, I suppose they kind of are. can’t have people getting any funny ideas. keep it as sterile as possible.

  318. Well said yehaaa ! my sentiments exactly …….

  319. Another group that committed illegal acts under the guise of religion.

    “Cops busted an Arizona church after they said the only healing it offered was sexual.

    On Friday, police said they arrested 20 people from the Phoenix Goddess Temple church and charged them with prostitution, CNN.com reported.”

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/09/10/2011-09-10_arizonas_goddess_temple_was_a_house_of_prostitution_not_god_cops_say.

  320. Probably, Could have, …………here we go again. If the owner of property wants to move it from one location to another or even destroy it it is their right. As usual everyone will argue about the ownership of property and speculate about something as mundane as shipping property from one location to another. A shipment of books or a truckload of pizza would get the same treatment just because the FLDS had their hands on it.

  321. What, ZXC?!!! You’re not going to lambaste AZ law enforcement for targeting Phoenix Goddess Temple’s religion?

  322. Mebbe he was running the Chruch. Sounds like its right up his alley.

  323. Ya know, it’s interesting. AZ can whip down a woman’s church, that illegally targets men, in two years, but can’t take down a man’s church, that illegally targets women, in 70. We’ve come a long way, baby.

  324. ZXC, it wasn’t the FLDS’ property to do anything with. They should have kept their hands off of it, but they think they are above the law. Sorry, but they aren’t and hopefully they will learn that lesson sooner rather than later.

  325. ZXC, you need to learn to read the posts before commenting. As Proud Texas just pointed out, the library books were NOT the property of the FLDS so it was not OK for the FLDS to move the books “from one location to another or even destroy” any of the books by burning them.

    I am glad that you grasp the concept of property rights, however in this case it was not property belonging to the FLDS that they moved and destroyed. The books belonged to Stefanie Colgrove and to the HOPE Org.

  326. The books were not moved from one flds location to another flds location. Thr flds were taking books that did not belong to them, as others have pointed out, and were donating someone’s else’s property to a library and a thrift store.

  327. “Probably, Could have, …………here we go again. If the owner of property wants to move it from one location to another or even destroy it it is their right. As usual everyone will argue about the ownership of property and speculate about something as mundane as shipping property from one location to another.”

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    The FLDS were not the owners of the books and therefore they did not have the right to move the books. The books were donated to the HOPE Organization. Those responsible for burning and “relocating” the books have committed a crime, and they should be brought to justice.

    BTW – ZXC, am I waiting to see when you will label those men who reported sexual abuse by Catholic priests as persons who are “targeting” the Catholic religion.

  328. Any new information on the” statue” & it’s destination ??

  329. Love this quote from a Phoenix Police Dept. spokesperson regarding the activity at the Phoenix Goddess Termple church.

    “We certainly respect First Amendment rights. However, religious freedom does not allow for criminal acts,” Phoenix police spokesman Steve Martos told CNN”

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/09/10/2011-09-10_arizonas_goddess_temple_was_a_house_of_prostitution_not_god_cops_say.html?r=topnews

  330. So file the charges folks………..let the law sort out the probably and the possibely…….

    The Catholic church issue deals with violation of both religious and secular law…..and the secular crowd didn’t make a few calls about Sarah to facilitate a questionable raid on an entire community. Priests are in jail and 400 uninvolved children weren’t rounded up and questioned in a manner that circumvented miranda rights. Victims came forward in the Catholic affair they were not harassed as in the FLDS fiasco and for that matter the FLDS do not consider themselves victims of anyone but ex-members .

    Is the water tower finished yet?

  331. ZXC, did you miss the memo? The raid isn’t questionable. The search warrants were upheld on appeal. Take your tired, false argument elsewhere.

  332. So file the charges folks………..let the law sort out the probably and the possibely…….

    And, if memory serves, the FLDS PD [the crooked pretend police] said there was no crime…..as usual. They wouldn’t know a real crime if it stood up and introduced itsself to them.

  333. chemist, I liked the following quote also “branches of the temple netted evidence showing “church members” performing sex acts in exchange for “donations”, cops said.”

    Just change 2 words and BINGO you have Warren Jeffs’ church of the pedophile priesthoodlems.

    “Searches of the temple netted evidence showing “church members” performing sex acts in exchange for “ordinances”, cops said.”

  334. Let me add….they knew it was a crime, they just refuse to recognize anything that doesn’t suit their purpose. They have no interest in justice, as has been proven over and over.

  335. ZXC,

    We all want to know if the tower is finished yet – please drive over there and let us all know!

  336. ZXC, you like to ask a lot of questions and so do I. Are you that short, skinny, little argumentative 43ish old guy; who finally got his first “celestial bride” (who is 18-years-old); and are you one of the members of CPAC, whose brother is the Centennial Park prophet ?

  337. ZXC: The charges were filed, trials were held, sentences are being served, the search warrants were upheld by an appeals court. Try to keep up.
    Re the library books: charges have not been filed and I don’t expect them to be. The flds gave themselves a black eye in that situation and that is the only punishment that will occur.

  338. and 400 uninvolved children weren’t rounded up and questioned in a manner that circumvented miranda rights.
    ——————————————————
    Those kids were rounded up and questioned because their entire community was living in a way that circumvented the law.

    The raid was probably the most interesting thing that’s ever happened to them. If their parents weren’t so persecuted, 60 seconds out of every minute, these kids would probably remember it as exciting.

    They weren’t harmed. No one directly threatened them. There were professional CPS workers handling the situation and talking them through it the whole way.

    If they had circumvented my miranda rights when I was that age, I would have asked “Who is miranda, can I live with her?”.

  339. I’ve been reading this blog for a couple of months now, mostly lurking. Is it etiquette to introduce myself? I will anyway. I’m a 59 year old woman who lives in Australia. I’d never heard of FLDS until late July and now I am obsessed by it – wonder what that says about me?

    Anyhow from what I read lots of folks on this blog are escapees from the cult and I’ve been wanting to ask a perhaps indelicate question for some time. Do they have a problem with sexually transmitted infections in the FLDS? It sounds like the folks are quite promiscuous what with all the “marriage re-assignments”. Added to that (I assume) is an unwillingness to use condoms because they want to keep pumping out children. So I just wonder.

  340. “400 uninvolved children weren’t rounded up and questioned in a manner that circumvented miranda rights.”
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    ZXC, the children weren’t accused of any wrongdoing nor were charges being considered against those children – so therefore they did not need to have their Miranda rights read to the them.
    Glad at least to see that you don’t think those Catholic priests were “targeted” for their religion. That is a position which at least makes sense.

  341. ZXC said this on September 10, 2011 at 10:22 PM: “The Catholic church issue deals with violation of both religious and secular law….”

    And the FLDS issue?

    Any violation of secular law on the part of some of their members?

    “…and for that matter the FLDS do not consider themselves victims of anyone but ex-members .”

    I’ve heard differently.

    You speak for the FLDS now?

  342. ZXC needs to start writing Warren. The charges were filed, the trials held, the life sentence is being served..

    But perhaps if ZXC would donate money and have enough faith, the walls will fall down for Warren?

  343. Greatdickens

    Good question on the STD’s – News of that sort of thing hasnt leaked out, but since many FLDS guys drive truck and seem obsessed with chasing skirt, and the fact those guys have the opportunity to catch some strange on the road with rentals, its quite probable there are some problems, at least in some circles so to speak.

    A much BIGGER issue is fumarase deficiency, which is a genetic disease caused by decades of inbreeding.

    Many carry the gene, so when by some chance it manifests itself in a child, the child is terribly disfigured and will have a short life span, usually not able to learn to speak much even if they live into their teens.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/635182923/Birth-defect-is-plaguing-children-in-FLDS-towns.html

  344. Getting back to abuses by Warren, looks like another wave of kids getting bounced

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52509683-78/flds-members-leaving-jeffs.html.csp

  345. Makes your heart ache for those young flds youth, knowing they will have no support and only limited contact with their parents.

  346. Good morning on this anniversary of both 9/11 and Mountain Meadows.

  347. Oh yes……….tell me what I want to know or I will take you from your mommie and daddy……..and the message can be delivered in more than one way. We are looking for someone that doesn’t exist so help us find the non-existant person or you will be taken from your mommy and daddy. Are you the person that doesn’t exist….. get the bus boys we are taking these criminals to the ocean for a swim. Round em up like cattle and ship them to a reprograming facility boys….. isn’t targeting a religion so much fun?
    Sure seems that the Texas Supreme court disagreed with the removal of the kiddos ……. Spin that one folks.

  348. Sorry ZXC, just don’t feel like playing with you today. Have a good day.

  349. Jusr watched and listened to the Music and the Spoken Word presentation by the Mormon Tabernacle Choir with Tom Brokaw on the anniversary of 9/11. It was a beautiful, poignant and uplifting presentation. I wept. I am sure there are many other rememberances today that will also be well done and will stir our feelings. God Bless America.

  350. I’m sorry I missed that, chemist. I’m watching local Idaho coverage.

  351. ZXC, you are about as hard headed as they come. The search warrants and the children being removed both went to the 3rd Court of Appeals and then is where they will separate. One is civil and one is criminal.

    In the case of the children, no court ever said they had to give all the children back, what they said was that each child had to be considered on their own merit. CPS decided to begin nonsuiting. CPS could have kept all the children and returned them one at a time if they had desired to. For some reason, unknown to me, they gave up. They sent all the children back and therefore CPS is responsible for any child who is injured at the ranch.

  352. greatdickens,
    I started lurking about 3 months after the FLDS raid and finally started posting about 6 months later. I chose my “handle” as hellohellogoodbye because I figured if I got it out of my system I would be out of here.
    Ha!
    Welcome.

  353. I am well aware of the method that CPS used to remove as well as return the children Annon…….doesn’t change the fact that the Texas Supreme court took issue with the need for their removal and six of them had an issue with the multiple dwelling issue.
    It sure seems that everyone wants to dance around the warrant and its fraudulent informant. LE had the perfect set of circumstances for the raid and I do not believe for one minute that the circumstances were benign. I sure would like hear the 40 hours of conversations between Swinton and Flora.

  354. Six of who had issue with the multiple dwelling issue? The 3rd Court of Appeals said that it was all one premises by the fact that there were no street names, no building numbers or any other identifying markers, no individual mailboxes. You are mixing apples with oranges. the search warrant had nothing to do with the CPS removal, they are 2 complete and different things that require different burdens of proof.

    If you want to hear the 40 hours of conversations between Flora and Swinton, do something about it.

  355. Do they have a problem with sexually transmitted infections in the FLDS?
    ————————————————-
    Mostly collective yeast infections and oral herpes. It’s possible genital herpes is prevelant, but I doubt members would go to a Dr. to report that or get medication for it. As for the others, no one complains about them or seeks medical attention, as far as I know.

    I am aware of two AIDS related deaths from former CC citizens, but I believe the virus was acquired outside of CC and not brought in. With more uneducated people venturing out, though, it might only be a matter of time before HIV and other infections make their way in.

    Who knows what Warren might have contracted on his flight from justice adventures?

  356. zxc seems to want to rehash OLD news. The issue of the removel of children from YFZ is just that, old news. It’s all been settled in court, several times. Time to move on. I look at him/her as someone just trying to stir things up. Reminds me of the old trolls that used to visit here. I did love the part about the Miranda warnings. Apparently he/she knows little about the law and is with the ‘it’s all a conspiracy” crowd.

  357. I sure would like hear the ….conversations between Swinton and Flora.
    ———————————————————–
    Who cares? Would it change anything? If you give “SARAH BARLOW” several middle names, it could be an acronymn for all the young girls Warren, et al, were having sex with, AND WHO COULDN’T HAVE MADE THAT CALL IF THEY WANTED TO. Sarah was real, all right, just not who we thought. LE did the right thing by going in and looking for all the ‘Sarahs’ by another name, and bringing their abusers to justice.

    In an attempt to sound patriotic, with all your “miranda rights, blah, blah, blah”, you come across as a pathetic man imposing his American freedoms on the genitals of young girls. You sound FLDS.

  358. Really I think he just tries to get people all worked up, I.e. Trolling in the true sense of the word. He kinda reminds me of the blogogre character. To me its hilarious that urban dictionary has zxc as

    Manly, powerfull and/or knowledgeable.
    It is pronounce SEXY. Ze-eX-Ce Z-X-C

    Machismo at it’s finest with a side of narcissism

  359. Manly, powerfull and/or knowledgeable.
    It is pronounce SEXY. Ze-eX-Ce Z-X-C

    Machismo at it’s finest with a side of narcissism
    ——————————————————-
    Uuugh! He has to be that CPAC guy. The first definition is his own perception of himself, the latter is our definition of him.

  360. Oh my, I am so dense,…. would NEVER have tumbled to the acronym ZXC…..

    the things I get to learn here

  361. “My hair is screaming ‘I catch the sh*t you think is going over my head’, while my unibrow whispers loudly, ‘I can’t pluck it out of my life without intense pain.’ So, read my pursed lips and f-off”.

    Sincerely,
    FLDS woman

  362. classic troll. Doesn’t understand the concept that negative attention is not really better than no attention at all.

  363. Unibrow is truly a one of a kind species.

  364. I think she has beautiful bone structure.

  365. I’m sorry I missed that, chemist. I’m watching local Idaho coverage.

    Third Cousin said this on September 11, 2011 at 11:15 AM

    The program is being streamed on internet at http://www.byutv.org

    Click on the link for live broadcast (you may have to register, it’s free)

    The next broadcast is 9:30PM Central time, 8:30 Mountain, also at 12:00AM Central time, 11:00PM Mountain time.

  366. Also the 9/11 special is also available on internet at:

    http://byutv.org/watch/event/48546045-ad33-4226-ad2d-c657e891e18a

    No waiting for broadcast on BYU TV.

  367. Right at the moment I forget Unibrow’s real name, but I believe she was “married” to Rulon and then Warren, and IMO she has wonderful facial features. If only she was allowed to be an individual. No heavy make-up needed. Perhaps the unibrow, hair, and uniform are her way of hiding those gifts from God. It just occurred to me.
    I am very modest myself, I never enjoyed being “prissy”- I don’t use make-up or hairstylists, and I dress very conservatively. ( Last time I was in any uniform, it was high school band, though.)
    I think Uni is the woman that Carolyn Jessop mentions in her book Escape as having looked truly beautiful as a bride, on her “wedding day” to Rulon (turn -me -over- to- the- old- goat- day.)
    If only she got the unibrow dealt with, a decent hairstyle, and just a little mascara, maybe, but not necessarily, a hint of lip gloss.. I think people would be astonished at how attractive she is. I guess these poor flds think every woman walking around is a harlot except themselves. Lots of women walk all over the planet every day with modest, becoming attire and little or no make-up. (and of course, I ain’t even counting the poor burka inhabitants, bc no one can see what they actually dressed in or how their hair or make-up or whatever looks-but I know lots of them are dressed how they wish under it all.).)
    It makes me feel bad that these women are raised to think no one can know the LORD if they have any individuality, or don’t adhere to a strange uniform appearance. I wish they could figure out that there is life beyond those strange outward things they do to themselves.
    I have noticed that many flds people of both genders are attractive, they wouldn’t even have to make much alteration in how they dress or do their hair, just small changes, remaining plenty modest, yet achieving a touch of personality for themselves. Maybe there will actually be a day when a dear soul like Unibrow no longer has to be the focus of dismay, when she is actually a beauty standing right there in front of us all. The way her youth was stolen from her by “marrying” Rulon gives me a headache, but I for one would really like to see someone like her get a clue and know that God loves her just as much with no unibrow and a decent hair style, as she thinks He does with her doing that to herself.

  368. Betty- you said it right, Uni has beautiful bone structure. I personally think she practically has super-model traits. I have always been fascinated by her face. I think she is hiding behind the “super modesty” deliberately. Well, we can all present ourselves as we please… Lord, at least the flds attire ain’t illegal, like so much else they do! I live near the PA Dutch (Amish) and have seen many a beautiful Amish girl. No make-up, apple cheeks, good figure, etc… It doesn’t take make-up, jewelry, or stylish clothes, or lack of modesty to create beauty. I just wish Uni wd get rid of the brow. According to wsj himself, we now know the girls can use razors!! On certain areas!

    Well, darlin?? C’mon, knock us all dead with a uni-shave, eh what??

  369. Unibrow is the niece of Warren, married to Wendell Nielsen. She’s a sister to underage brides Janet, Pamela and LeAnn. Lying S@ckosh!t Sally is her mother.

  370. Really I think he just tries to get people all worked up, I.e. Trolling in the true sense of the word. He kinda reminds me of the blogogre character. To me its hilarious that urban dictionary has zxc as

    Manly, powerfull and/or knowledgeable.
    It is pronounce SEXY. Ze-eX-Ce Z-X-C

    Machismo at it’s finest with a side of narcissism

    pathgirl said this on September 11, 2011 at 4:51 PM

    pathgirl, thanks SO much for your insightful comment. WOW, the ZXC pain-in-the-butt blogger thinks of himself as being manly, powerful and/or knowledgeable. “Who’d o’ thunk it?”

    Gag me with a spoon!

    pathgirl, please stop by more often and educate us about these obnoxious weenies.

  371. I remember (shortly after the YFZ raid) when “Unibrow” went on prime time TV with her mother, “Lying S@ckosh!t Sally” and they both said that they knew nothing about any underage FLDS girls getting “married” and adamantly claimed to have seen no pregnant underage FLDS girls at the YFZ . Yeah right!

    It would be SO nice if Texas prosecutors would ask “Unibrow” and her mother, “Lying S@ckosh!t Sally” about their sisters/daughters (underage brides) Janet, Pamela and LeAnn.

  372. I’m a serial lurker & you are welcome Anon.

  373. well, that good old “lying for the Lord” has kept the gals safe and sound at ye big ranch on the desert, eh? they are so ingrained, their lies are a good thing to them.. and lest we forget, the little girls at yfz answered “no age is too young to be married” when asked by cps.. so perhaps, there we have it?? Uni and Sally answered that they didn’t know of any underage marriages, bc to them all marriages in their little universe take place perfectly on time..(on what appears to be identical wristwatches.)?? flds thinking- count on it to be in-line, on a string, upside down, whatever wsj orders, you know the routine!

    I remember needing to fall over when Sally said she had a five year old son who was handicapped, that needed her, taken in the “raid..” wow, Sally-babe, ever think maybe having kids at your age could present dangers? Gosh, no, cause wsj doesn’t believe in birth defects?? Whatever, I know-
    well, I repeat- Uni would look so much better if she’d shave the middle and get a decent hairstyle- and I think women’s prison togs couldn’t look too much worse than those “dresses” (except maybe for the horizontal stripe kind..).. but what do I know?

    Unfortunately, I think we’re all gonna be lucky to see even the worst female offender, little secretary Naomie, caught and jailed. Several flds women desperately need to be jailed, but I don’t have faith it will happen. If it took this long to bring even a small bit of justice wsj’s way, bringing it to more flock members, esp females, will take forever, or never at all.

    Goodnight, Uni-girl..keep them dreams sweet..

  374. I was trying to think what the psychology behind that hair could be. We had the ‘crick wave’ when I was there but, My God, it’s turned into a Colorado City Tsunami!

    Maybe someone started it and, in true sister wife form, they all began competing like hell for the best, highest head of hair. Dunno, but it’s funny.

  375. The unibrow, that’s not funny. Seriously, if she stigmatizes all women from Colorado City with that, I will be pissed 😉

  376. “Who knows what Warren might have contracted on his flight from justice adventures?”

    Yes indeed Sis I had thought that myself. I’m reading Sam Brower’s book at the moment and he mentioned one night when Mr Jeffs was in New Orleans he ordered Naomi to stay in the hotel room while he went out to sample – sorry, observe, some real wickedness. I wonder if he visited any ladies of the night.

  377. What strikes me about unibrow, is that she appeared to have a leadership role among the ladies, and if there was a contest as to who would look more outraged at getting busted for child abuse she wins hands down.

    ( why, they own those children and can abuse them any way they see fit! )

    Now that she knows the world learned what her lord and masters were up to, I’d like to get another look at her sheepish face.

  378. As I said before they’re SHEEPLE !!!! Can you fix STUPID ? NO !!

  379. When the statue is “erected” punny! the fairy tales of Warren will ridiculed to death.

    Wonder if they will install a crotch fountain? It would be fitting, seeing that he has been urinating on his own sheeples for years.

  380. Remembering the interviews of some of the flds mothers, particularly the one you call Unibrow. She wasnt giddy like some of them. She appeared to be generally sad. Wonder what has happened to her now with Wendell Neilson out. But maybe she was no longer married to him. It all gets so confusing…..

  381. If part of the hope of this blog is to be a place where FLDS people can get a glimmer of the truth, then we probably should reframe from calling individuals derogatory names like Unibrow or Lying S@ckosh!t Sally.

    They still should be called out when they lie to the press and government.

    Maybe I am being too sensitive towards the females since I still think Willie the thug is still an ok name. But, if I had risked my eternity to read this blog and read these references I would be offended and not receptive.

  382. I remember reading somewhere that Merilyn “unibrow” Jeffs said that she would not have her daughter married off until she is 20 “as that is a good age,” she said.

  383. watergirl, I know, it’s true, I am one that gets carried away and I say things I shouldn’t, trying to deal with the stress- I am sorry-also, I couldn’t remember Merilyn’s real name.

    I have lots of stress in my own life, humor diffuses it enough to get through another day. I am sorry for contributing to anything deemed wrong by some.

    I guess I would like to say, however, that it has been a big distress to me to know what flds teach their offspring, that it’s good to severely (and wrongfully) judge others, seeing themselves as elite, even while breaking so many laws that others do hard time for. My own son is in serious trouble right now, and I cry inside an awful lot.

    flds have purposefully separated themselves by believing they are superior, and by worshipping a really bad guy. It has cost a tremendous amount financially and emotionally to parts of our nation. It’s hard not to spit back at people that seem so hypocritical, and where hundreds of small American citizens are concerned that will never have any freedom if people that are watching this do nothing.

    But again, I am sorry for getting carried away.

  384. Gretchen
    I am so sorry about your son.
    HHG

  385. Gretchen, the majority of us here have gotten carried away, including myself, and all has been forgiven. I hope your son can see his way clear of this trouble soon.

  386. If the supporters of Warren werent so outlandish in their behavior, they would probably get more respect, just sayin’.

    Recovering alcoholics and drug addicts probably make fun of their former friends too. Once you are on the outside its easy to see the follies and laugh at them.

    And I’m not so sure this place was meant to be a therapy place for current or former FLDS – though for people carrying such burdens it can be a good place to sample the facts and come to grip with reality.

    It doesnt have to be served on a silver platter – havent we seen that perform, as in epic fail?

    Sometimes scrambled eggs make for a great breakfast.

  387. I remember reading somewhere that Merilyn “unibrow” Jeffs said that she would not have her daughter married off until she is 20 “as that is a good age,” she said.
    ————————————————
    She sounds ultra focused on her daughter being married off at a specific age.

    Don’t most moms want their children to make that decision for themselves when they’re ready, and not a moment before? (Well, unless that biological grandbaby clock is ticking.)

    I know it’s out of context, but it seems to me that she got so zoned in on legal age that she let it slip how little choice the individuals being “married off” have. It’s decided for them not by them.

  388. Unibrow can spout all she wants that she thinks “20 is a good age”, but as soon as the profit says Unibrow daughter, you are now 12 and it’s time to be married, Unibrow will serve her up on a silver platter.

  389. Grethen, sorry for your heartache. didn’t mean to preach.

  390. “I remember reading somewhere…she would not have her daughter married off until she is 20 “as that is a good age,” she said.”

    She said that while testifying at the 14-day custody hearing in April 2008.

    Questioned by her attorney:

    Q. Would you ever allow your daughter Marva to marry before the age of eighteen?

    A. No, I will not.

    Q. Is it within your power, as Marva’s mother, to refuse to allow her to marry before the age of eighteen?

    A. Yes, it is.

    Q. And that is something that you will do?

    A. Yes

    Q. Regardless of consequences?

    A. Yes

    Under questioning by the state about marriages of her sisters since she arrived at YFZ in 2004, she “couldn’t recall” when they were married or how old one of them was when she had a child.

    She was vague in her responses about her sisters and the state did not push her to be more specific.

    The state could have clarified the exact number of her sisters who were married at YFZ. The correct answer is three and all three were underage.

    My guess as to her current status is that she is probably still at YFZ or wherever her mother and sisters are.

  391. To everyone- thank you for the kind words. I have been holding in what is going on in my own life. .It’s pretty overwhelming, my son had trouble from early childhood, it’s a long story- no point in repeating it, it has nothing to do with this blog.
    This polygamy stuff has been on my heart so heavily, I don’t know how to explain it.. I guess the American West means a great deal to me, and to think fellow Americans are living in such ways, training their children in such bondage. I mean, it seems most of these people have ancestry on American soil that predates the Civil War by generations yet they believe in raising their children in bondage. – I guess after awhile it occurred to me- as it says in the Bible, “they have a zeal for God, but not after knowledge.” There is no doubt in my mind that “faithful” flds really believe in what they do, or they wouldn’t work so hard, or make such horrendous sacrifices. My heart does go out to them, that they do not seem to have a clue at all about Calvary. Everything they say and do seems to revolve around constantly performing in a very precise way to win God’s favor. (and what it must be like to always want to please someone like wsj, wow..)
    I myself couldn’t possibly hold on to such a personal-effort lifestyle to hope that God loves me. I would break very early in life, probably would destroy myself if I couldn’t get out of such a group.

    But again,everyone, thank you. Sorry for digressing from blog topic.

  392. Q. When your daughter is fifteen, if the prophet chooses for her to be married, will you comply with that?

    A. I will have her wait.

    Q. And have you always felt that way or is that recent?

    A. I – – personally, I was married at twenty. And that is a good age.

    Q. But my question is, have you always felt that way in regards to your daughter?

    A. Yes.

    Q. Okay. So before all of this happened, it didn’t matter what the prophet said about marriage

    A. Yes – – we have a choice.

    Q. I understand you have a choice. If the prophet said that your daughter was fifteen and should marry would you suggest that your daughter should marry?

    A. No, I will not.

    Q. And are you not familiar with the ages of any of the recent marriages n the last three years of the brides on the ranch?

    A. No, ma’am, I am not.

    State: Thank you. I’ll pass the witness.

  393. Those excerpts are not her entire testimony, but an effort to provide some context for her comment about marriage at 20.

  394. Thanks Twist, but her talk is all well and good, the proof is in the fact that others have testified that if they didn’t concede to the profit’s wishes, they would be exed. I have no doubt that if and when Unibrow is told that it is time for her 12 year old daughter to be married, young Marva will become a bride just like her aunts before her.

    Merilyn was 20 and so was sister Rosemary, but it went downhill from there. Janet was 14 the first time she was married, Pamela was 15 and LeAnn was 15. Young ReNae was waiting in the wings when the raid took place she had just turned 15. Wonder how come she was spared the fate of a 12, 13 or 14 year old marriage.

  395. Is that the incinerator that burns at some outrageous 2300 degrees they were suppose to be building?

  396. Probably not, best guess is the base for a water tower or the base for the new statue of Warren.

  397. no it’s not. I helped build that “incinerator”. it’s not an incinerator. it is a furnace for hardening powder coating. or at least that’s what we were told when building it. it’s built out of a shipping container that’s covered in spray foam. quite an impressive piece of work, actually.

  398. We you on the YFZ yehaaa?

    And you aren’t saying that this thing in the picture of the main post is the furnace are you?

  399. That should be “were you”.

  400. no. I wasn’t on the YFZ. the furnace that I’m referring to was built in Short Creek and then shipped to YFZ. and this picture is nothing like what I helped build. The furnace was, like I said, built out of a shipping container. a small one at that. probably only about 12-14 long.

  401. 12-14 feet long, that is.

  402. Interesting. Did you know the destination when you were working on it?

  403. no, they just told us that it was needed for one of the places of Zion or something. I don’t remember exactly. we worked for about 3 days straight on it. or at least my father did.

  404. gretchen said; “I mean, it seems most of these people have ancestry on American soil that predates the Civil War by generations yet they believe in raising their children in bondage.”

    It is my understanding that most of the LDS mormons were converts from Europe, so they did not have American ancestry that “predates the Civil War by generations”.

    The LDS mormom converts came across the Atlantic Ocean to settle in America in the mid-to-late 1800s; not too many years before the Civil War started.

    They were mostly “newcomers” of European ancestry, not Americans whose ancestors came here before the Revolutionary War.

  405. “Wonder how come she was spared the fate of a 12, 13 or 14 year old marriage.”

    Too closely related to Warren, I suppose.

    He hadn’t gotten around to marrying his nieces.

    Yet.

  406. “…young Marva will become a bride just like her aunts before her.”

    Possibly so.

    And thanks to the “all or nothing” mindset, there’s nothing in place to possibly prevent it.

  407. The LDS mormom converts came across the Atlantic Ocean to settle in America in the mid-to-late 1800s; not too many years before the Civil War started.
    —————————————–
    According to Ancestry.com, most of my ancestors have been here since the 1600’s. My ancestors who were Mormon pioneers descended from American pilgrims.

  408. I should say most of my American ancestors have been here since the 1600’s.

  409. I’ve got some ancestors that came to Jamestown Colony and some that didn’t come to America until during the Irish potato famine.

  410. sorry for my mistake about lds immigrants from Europe- that’s right- they came here not long before the Civil War.. I was thinking of statements I have heard such as “I am a child of seven generations of polygamists..” Whatever decade that puts the original generation to America in.

  411. gretchen, when girls are married off at 12, 13, 14 years old, it doesn’t take long to rack up seven generations – LOL.

  412. Saw an article on health this morning. It said that the level of testosterone in men drops after they have a child, and more so if they are involved in the every day life of the child. So, polygamy, when it places the child care solely into the hands of women, isolates the man from child rearing and thus keeps up his testosterone level, which in turn, perpetuates the cycle.

  413. I wonder if Willie the Thug will bother to show up at court this time?

    FIFTH DISTRICT COURT-ST GEORGE
    G RAND BEACHAM September 28, 2011
    Courtroom 3A Wednesday
    10:30 AM OSC/FTA AND SUPP ORDER PROC 080501816 Miscellaneous
    JESSOP, WILLIAM R ATTY: BRADSHAW, JIM C
    PARKER, RODNEY R
    VS.
    BROWER, SAMUEL E ATTY: BISHOP, WILLARD R
    ——————————————————————————

  414. I thought I read somewhere that Willie was going to man up – but we’ll see.

  415. HA HA

    He has Bradshaw and Parker for attorneys? I thought they were Warren’s plural attorney’s?

    They sure look promiscuous going from one family fight to the next.

    Maybe those attorneys are there in name only and Willie is trying to figure out who to rustle up.

    Snow has an office locally as I recall? Must be a bunch more attorneys willing to take his money!

    But is it good?

  416. Most of my mormon pioneer ancestors were here since the 1630’s, and one supposedly came over on the Mayflower. They fought on both sides of the American Revolution. Some Loyalists expatriated to Canada after the split from Great Britain. Many ended up in the burned-over-district.

  417. The videos from the latest Safety Net meeting is available. Time is missing from part one of the two videos.

    On part 2 there is some discussion concerning Willie.

    Some really great input from the “outside” concerning what help there is available for those leaving.

    I think it is great that there are so many that have extended their willingness to help including the LDS Church.

    At one point Paul Murphy stated that it was a good meeting. And from what I saw I must say I agree. ( I want to see the part that they edited out though)

    There was a little bit mentioned about Big Brother but I didn’t catch it all. There is a Big Brother program in our town and they are a true blessing for some families. Sometimes teenage boys/girls need to know that they aren’t so different than the rest their own age. Talking to girls/boys is one of those things that is sometimes difficult no matter the culture they live in. jmo

    Walton

  418. For Anonymous on September 10, 2011 at 8:11 AM

    Thank you for your reply. I went back and looked at what news stories were available concerning the story and I watched that video clip from the Safety net meeing and I still came to the same conclusion as I had before.

    I understand that sometimes my opinion differs from others but the bottom line is that the kids were the ones who were blamed.

    Walton

  419. Walton, if it had been CPers who were responsible the FLDS would have been all over that like a bug on stink. It was FLDS and the only question now is was it ordered by Lyle/Warren.

  420. When people leave or get kicked out of the FLDS are they still considered FLDS or are they considered CParkers?

    Is Willie FLDS? or is Willie a CParker?
    Are the kids that got kicked out FLDS or are they CParkers?
    Those that moved away and came back are they still FLDS or are they CParkers?

    I don’t think the FLDS consider them as still being FLDS.

    I guess it all doesn’t matter at this point. The old school building is once again conisdered as being property to do with as Wisan sees fit and he said Stephanie could use it as a library.

    And I know they all worked hard at getting all those books for everyone to use. So… are the books back in the old school building?

    Walton

  421. AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh

  422. What was that all about Anon@12:30

  423. John Llewellyn has a new post at his blog in response to the Principle Voices :

    http://polygamybooks.org/2011/09/13/why-mormon-polygamy-should-not-b-e-decriminalized.aspx

  424. Reading this BLOG

    Feels like Im Eating @ MCDONALDS. 100% Non tritional… lol

  425. Whatever Non tritional means.

  426. Whatever Non tritional means.
    ___________________________

    It means he still supports the FLDS even after Warren pulled him out of school. Ouch! Sorry.

  427. So, polygamy, when it places the child care solely into the hands of women, isolates the man from child rearing and thus keeps up his testosterone level, which in turn, perpetuates the cycle
    ————————————————————-
    It also perpetuates the cycle of sexual abuse. According to Dr. Janet Bennion, I believe, the absence/isolation is one of the things that makes a father sexually attracted to his own child.

  428. Non tritional? ha ha

    Like FLDS doctrine, no doubt!

  429. AAAAAAaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh was wondering how kids drove a Ford F350 to Cedar city, did Daddy give them the credit card to fuel that puppy up?

    Those trucks take about 100 bucks to fuel up nowadays.

  430. Non tritional? ha ha

    Like FLDS doctrine, no doubt!
    ————————————————-
    Exactly. FLDS doctrine is to spirituality what a Big Mac laced with cyanide is to physicality.

  431. AAAAAaaaaaaaahhhhh, maybe. Was it one of Truman Barlow’s kids? He was always buying his boys big trucks.

  432. On the “polygamy chic” blog they are showing more and more pics of WJS with this wife and that wife, occasionally showing him with a baby. Where are the pics of FAMILIES? As in the whole group.

  433. When you think about that photo of all WJS’s wives and yet without their little chidren. That is so devaluating to the family concept. I dont get it.

  434. Truman Barlow’s kids aren’t his anymore, his wives were all reassigned right after he was exed.

  435. http://www.eldoradoflds.us/new-photos-09-09-2011/

    New photos are up.

  436. I certainly enjoy the making of something from nothing. ZXC……….the bottom row of the keyboard, first three letters from left to right.

    Almost as good as 23 year old teenagers and the everpopular non-existant Sarah. So how much more will be made out of nothing. The entire thread began by claiming a water tower base was a statue pedestal………..oh well,,,,,,,have you found the crematorium yet?

  437. Haven’t been looking for it. Obviously you haven’t found your brain yet?

  438. ZXC said. oh well,,,,,,,have you found the crematorium yet?
    —————————————–
    Whoa, there are all those commas again. The language and punctuation, coupled with opposing thoughts, bring dissociative identity disorder to mind. Maybe our sheeple guy is in and out of the herd.

  439. I stand by my original post that tower is for water, it’s design is almost identical to a tower just completed a week ago here in my community in east Texas. The main difference is that tower here is steel above base like that of YFZ tower. It has a large ball shaped tank at top, looks rather like a golf ball on a tee. The one here like the YFZ version has a door in the base that contains valves, pumps and electrical equipment. It also has a stair going to top of tower with railed area on top of ball shaped tank. The stair is located inside support column and accessed from room in base. Suspect the YFZ version will have the same from what I can see in photos.

    The tower here was constructed without any water lines connecting it to system, they are now being trenched to the water tower site.

    As to Warren Jeffs statue, if it exists, it will be erected at short creek or another location at YFZ.

    Of course the statue could be a disinformation plot on part of FLDS to hide construction of water tower, and other projects.

    Some one should report FLDS to TCEQ for building water tower without proper permits.

  440. add to that the fact that it is next to what appears to be a sewage plant or sumps of some kind. I didn’t ever think it was a statue base. that’s just a little out there, even for the FLDS, and all the news sources I saw that referenced a statue seemed a little iffy, with anonymous sources and such.

  441. I just did a quick look at the photos. (Thanks again to “The Pilot”)

    I am still curious about those cattle. Where is the hay? Are they buying hay? And keeping it where?

    And then what? Hamburger?

    Walton

  442. I never did believe the story about the crematorium. So stuff it, Z.

  443. Walton, the CParkers are a group that split off in the mid 1980’s. Current FLDS kickouts/apostates are not CParkers. There may be some that jump from one religion to another and become a CParker. For the most part, I think those that leave develop humanity and associate with people from this group instead of being forced to leave them alone. Some “apostates” may easily be confused as a CParker because they become more liberal in their dress, yet still dress much like they used to, and some of the “apostate” children go to the charter school in Centennial Park.

  444. thanks Cement. Do you know off hand if there is any group that has a program like Career Day? Young teens who may be interested in joining LE /Fireman/EMT/teaching/Journalism are able to be tagged by someone in that profession and they then follow the person in that profession for so many weeks. They get a little certificate that shows that they have graduated from the program.

    They get a taste of the “outside” or “inside” (depending how you look at it) and it gives them a chance to look forward and to start planning.

    And if anyone here knows Isaac Wyler could you ask him if he would be interested in doing a weekly What’s up blog or little one page newspaper for that area?

    Thanks Walton

  445. There ya go again sis………The validity of DID as a medical diagnosis has been questioned, nothing like throwing around a questionable diagnosis from a pseudo science to prove my point. Concocting something from nothing seems to be your forte.

  446. ZXC, I don’t care what you think who concocted, you’re just a pain in the butt. No one cares about all the little crap you stir up and I’m sure I speak for most everyone here when I say STFU!!!

  447. He is one of the case studies for malignant narcissism, aren’t you Zexy?

  448. Amen to what you said P. T. Yes, Z should jusr bug off.

  449. Anon said:

    AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh

    Anonymous said this on September 13, 2011 at 12:30 PM

    I can relate to this Anon’s post.

    Maybe Anon’s AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh comment was directed at the preceding post about the Safety Net. The people involved in the Safety Net don’t always know what is actually going on in the real world of polygamy. It is a diversified group of people from many different angles with many different takes on the actual real-life situations. There are government agency representatives, pro-polygamy advocacy representatives, victim advocacy agencies, etc. The meetings are open, broadcast on the Internet, and attended by media/news reporters. It is possible to say that no one attending the Safety Net meetings really feels safe to speak out about what is actually happening in real life and what is on their minds.

    Then again, maybe Anon’s AAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh comment was directed at the preceding comment about the ex-FLDS becoming members of the Centennial Park group. That premise is highly unlikely IMHO, since they are two different groups who have been taught by their priesthood leaders to hate each other, so the ex-FLDS doen’t automatically become a member of the Centennial Park polygamous group – even if those CPark members happen to live next door to your former residence.

  450. “some of the “apostate” children go to the charter school in Centennial Park.

    cement said this on September 13, 2011 at 6:19 PM”

    Actually cement, I don’t think that apostate children go to the charter school (Masada Charter School) in Centennial Park. It is my understanding that only the brightest and the best of the Centennial Park polygamous group’s children are allowed to attend the Masada Charter School.

    I think that the “regular, run-of-the-mill” Centennial Park children and the dreaded hodgepodge of apostate children attend the Arizona public El Capitan school.

  451. Born in Brooklyn, thanks for your link to John Llewellyn’s latest posting. He speaks honestly from personal experience and is always so erudite regarding this subject.

  452. Safety Net meetings. http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/15118078

    For those interested. Some of the earlier meetings sounded like and advertisement for Polygamy.

    What has been interesting lately is listening to those that that are now focusing on helping those that have left or are leaving.

    While I agree with the previous poster that some might not feel comfortable with speaking up, that isn’t the case with many who voice thier dislike for the FLDS.

    Walton

  453. Confusion with the FLDS and Centennial Park
    http://www.childbrides.org/abuses_spec_opinion_stolen_books.html

    Centennial Park, Ariz., resident Stefanie Colgrove helped get the movement started and received assistance in the effort from the HOPE Organization, a nonprofit group that helps people safely leave the polygamous lifestyle and integrate into mainstream society.

    ______
    Brooke made a post Aug. 17, 2009 titled Don Timpsons statement to Lindberg that sheds some light on the mixing of the two groups.

    Another story was written Dec. 18th 2008 when Willie and Mark Shurtleff did their little walk in the Park.

    —–
    Walton

  454. Well if Brooke wrote the piece you can be assured that it isn’t correct. She had a way of skewing the facts.

  455. Amen, Proud Texan!!

    ZXC, just GO AWAY.

  456. Amen Betty, So much anger coming f1rom Z, Cannot be good for his/her blood pressure and moods.

  457. I used to think that Utah should just defund the Safety Net, but if they are actually helping (and I think they are) those who have/are leaving that is great, because it is indeed a Safety Net.

  458. Proud Texan – Brooke offered a lot of information over at the Trib. Here is another site that gave the same info. http://thehopeorg.org/UEP-BerryKnoll-sale-hearing-7-29-09.pdf

    Walton

  459. Here is an older story about Don Timpson, his brother Ray and the Cox’s.
    http://articles.philly.com/1988-05-30/news/26259460_1_polygamous-families-polygamy-wives

    I wonder if Don and Ray are related to Willie E. Timpson Jessop?

    or related to Alma Timpson

    or related to John W. Timpson who has Centennial Park Mfg in Colorado City, AZ

    Walton

  460. I used to think that Utah should just defund the Safety Net, but if they are actually helping (and I think they are) those who have/are leaving that is great, because it is indeed a Safety Net.

    hellohellogoodbye said this on September 14, 2011 at 9:11 AM

    Many of those that are helping have already been in place and get no monies from this fund. I think the money could be divided up and some of it going to the Hope.org. and the rest should be used to hire LE that is NOT affiliated with any group or a rotation of LE with surrounding communities.

    jmo
    Walton

  461. Looked at the new pics, If you look at row four, the orchard, and enlarge it, you can see the statue is just a block from the Temple.

    The acreage right behind the statue looks like sewage treatment.

    Fitting.

  462. Yes, anonymous ( Walton) all those Timpson men you mentioned, all are sons to Alma Timpson ……

  463. On today’s date in 1993, Lynne Kanavel Whitesides was the first of six mainstream mormon scholars, known as the September Six, to be excommunicated / disfellowshipped from the church for their historical and philosophical writings.

    Whitesides objected to the lack of “embracing of the feminine” in the church and began study and speak about heavenly mother.

    Some describe this time as the beginning of Apostle Boyd K. Packer’s war on intellectualism within the church.

    The remaining scholars disciplined were Paul and Margaret Toscano; feminist writers Maxine Hanks and Lavina Fielding Anderson; Michael Quinn (who wrote about church-sanctioned post-manifesto polygamy); and Hebrew literary scholar Avraham Gileadi.

    Many of them shared their stories at a symposium ten years later:

  464. AAAAAAAaaaaahhhhh

    That was about the confusion over FLDS / CP

    The FLDS and CP people wont be going back and forth any sooner than they will be joining the LDS Church.

    Once they break off, most of the time anyway, they arent going to comingle.

    Willie and Willie will likely start up a new branch altogether, making this yet another split.

  465. For those of you in the St. George area, the Sons of Perdition documentary is showing at DocUtah Film Festival. It is being shown tonight in the 7-10 PM time slot at the Red Cliffs Cinema 3 at the Red Cliffs Mall; Thursday night in the 7-10 PM time slot at the Electric Theater on Tabernacle and Friday night in the 7-10 PM time slot Red Cliffs Cinema 1 at the Red Cliffs Mall.

  466. Chaps I’m not seeing the statue. What number is the photo where you saw it?

  467. From article posted by Walton: “Some of the women, though, talk about bitter jealousies that can grow over a husband’s favoritism to one wife, about cultural brainwashing and male dominance. And even a supporter of polygamy like Don Timpson acknowledges that “it can get ugly.”

    “It makes the man take control – if he survives it,” says his brother, Ray.”
    ——————————————————————–
    Great article, Walton. Thank you for finding and posting that. It’s from 1988 and it’s interesting to see how much more honest people were back then. When the camera lights got brighter, honesty searched for a hole to hide in.

    Children raised in this “ugliness” are not unaffected. Anyone who believes poygamy is a victimless crime needs to look closer.

  468. Walton,

    Proud Texan, myself and many others who post here have spent years reading what Brooke puts out. ALWAYS check her against other sources, and check for what she does NOT say, and for slant in her wording and emphasis. She is now openly pro-polygamy but she has been pretty obviously leaning that way for quite some time. She has an ability to not see the obvious abuse right in front of her and only see cute children and canned goods on the shelf in the storehouse.

  469. Absolutely correct Betty.

    Word from the Eldorado Success is that Warren is having clotting issues

  470. That is a great analysis of Brooke, Betty. I agree 100%.

    I have wondered so many times what her deal is. She supports women – who are complicit in their own abuse and who perpetuate the abuse of other women and children – because they SAY they aren’t and don’t.

    What else are they going to say? The truth? Really?

    Brooke is an educated woman. She can’t be that naive. I wish she would step away from the word processor before she cements more pro-polygamy validation onto the women she thinks she is helping.

    I don’t know, maybe she will surprise us in the end by starting an internal women’s movement, with the trust she has gained, that brings this system crashing down. It’s just hard for me to believe she supports this abuse and impossible to believe she is dumb.

  471. Sounds like Warren developed a deep venous thrombosis (DVT) while on bed rest during his treatment for pneumonia.

  472. Here is some information on DVT :
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001209/

  473. Love Times Three review and blog entries : http://www.abc4.com/content/news/blogs/story/Don-Hudson-Blog-Love-Times-Three-a-polygamous/a9gPHbVtOk-2ypuDJOQ_mg.cspx?p=Comments#_=

  474. Chaps ,I’m not seeing statue, either , I looked at photos where you said It’s supposed to be, but I don’t see it ???? other Anon

  475. New Era : an FLDS company : http://www.neweramfg.com/

  476. I think Chaps is referring to this picture

    and the base is about a block from the Temple.

  477. Leroy J. Steed’s attorney asked Judge Walther to restrict press coverage of his upcoming trial. In addition to asking for photography, video recording or broadcasting inside the courtroom (which was never even in consideration), they also asked that the press be prohibited form reporting details of evidence and testimony except for names of witnesses. The lawyer also asked for the press to be prohibited from photographing Steed coming and going from the courthouse as well as potential jurors. Judge Walther explained to the attorney that she could not restrict the freedom of the press.

    A request was made and denied for defense to get the social security numbers and phone numbers of potential jurors. The defense said they wanted to conduct “background” checks. Another motion that was denied was the rank and badge numbers of law enforcement officers called to testify.

    The defense went on to ask that it be provided with specific evidence the state plans to use as “bad acts” and that the state produce written notice 10 days prior to trial of any other documents it will offer as evidence. Both were denied. The state has said that it has 2 DNA samples of a mother and son and 1 outstanding DNA test that would be turned over to the defense.

    Finally the defense asked that Steed’s trial be moved to Central Texas. They have until Sept 21 to file a change of venue motion and it will be taken up at a hearing on Sept 28, if filed.

    Steed’s trial is currently slated to begin on Nov. 29, 2011.

    Sincere thanks to the Eldorado Success for providing in depth coverage of all the hearing regarding the FLDS.

  478. I like the central Texas idea. I suggest Llano (although the closure of the Badu House devastated me), Menard, Lampasas, or San Saba.

  479. I’m so glad the public gets to see what control freaks some of these men are!

    One of the highlights of Warren’s trial, for me, was when Judge Walther told him “I know this may be hard for you to understand, but you are not in control of these proceedings”. It was so eloquent and beautiful, I nearly choked on a strawberry.

  480. Chaps said “you can see the statue is just a block from the Temple.”

    In the photo PT linked to I only see this strange thing photographed at the top of this thread. I would hardly call that “the statue.”

  481. How about moving the trial to East Texas… like Tyler… so I can attend the proceedings. 😉

    It has a good sized population for seating a jury with probably fewer folks who have heard of the FLDS.

  482. PT, why would a judge deny a motion for discovery of rank and badge numbers?

  483. Sincere thanks to the Eldorado Success for providing in depth coverage of all the hearing regarding the FLDS.

    Proud Texan said this on September 14, 2011 at 9:02 PM

    I am glad you said this. I agree and it reminded me to get my subscription renewed.

    Thanks Randy and Kathy
    Walton

  484. Tyler’s good, ET, but also Jefferson, Kilgore, Longview, etc. Could be a chance to revisit Caddo Lake. And I always like Mineola too.

  485. Walton,

    Proud Texan, myself and many others who post here have spent years reading what Brooke puts out. ALWAYS check her against other sources, and check for what she does NOT say, and for slant in her wording and emphasis. She is now openly pro-polygamy but she has been pretty obviously leaning that way for quite some time. She has an ability to not see the obvious abuse right in front of her and only see cute children and canned goods on the shelf in the storehouse.

    Betty said this on September 14, 2011 at 5:17 PM

    Betty, I understand what you are saying. And I appreciate the words of advice.

    Prior to following the FLDS stories never did I go around checking and rechecking the things printed. Now, it seems it is all I do. Read and then follow up with other stories to verify. and then I verify some more. Tough way to read the news.

    After following all the stories for so long, my feelings about Polygamy have not changed. I am against polygamy and I hope they never decriminalize it.
    ——
    Sis- in that same article the Cox family is mentioned. I’ve read some other things about the family and Mr. Cox was highly praised in some of those articles. But I also found it interesting what the wives said about Polygamy. Here is another story. From 1990
    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=JVgaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=yyQEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4746%2C6181451

    Titled: Polygamist trio say lifestyle isn’t any highway to heaven from the Times
    another article in the same paper was titled: Polygamy endures century after Church rejects it.

    Walton

  486. Yes, TC, all those would work nicely too. It sure sounds like you’ve seen and been around Texas more than a little!

  487. The problem with all of those counties you listed E. Texas is that they are not in the Judge’s judicial district nor in the 7th Administrative District. Since we know that the FLDS seem to create problems around every curve, I think the Judge wants to stay close to those over her for problems. Also in consideration is the massive evidence room and the logistics of transporting it and keeping it secure.

    Besides, Robert Lee is a sleepy little town who gets most of it’s news from Sweetwater/Abilene, not San Angelo.

    TC – the problem is that it goes beyond the scope set out in discovery and the Judge hasn’t ordered either side to go beyond that scope in anything. The request for the jurors names and phone numbers was just outrageous. I can actually say, having watched numerous of these trials, the State goes above and beyond in giving the documents they intend to use to the defense. They give them a CD of the documents with each marked by the proposed exhibit number.

  488. PT, well said and points well taken.

    I agree, that “The request for the jurors names and phone numbers was just outrageous.” And disturbing!

  489. I think what Chaps was referring to yes is the “Statue base”.

    Couple things, and why I agree that is the rumored statue location.

    Its facing a fenced lot that mimics the fence of the Temple

    It backs up to what appears to be sewage ponds, not a place you would comingle your water supply?

    Regardless there arent any water pipes or apparent water infrastructure, which should be built concurrently?

    Its fun to razz the FLDS, especially when they do extra ordinary stoopid stuff.

    Its a bit more drama they dont necessarily need, but they play it for us on the stage they built.

  490. “Leroy J. Steed’s attorney asked Judge Walther to restrict press coverage of his upcoming trial.”

    By doing so, Steed’s attorney may have insured more interest in the “details of evidence” in his trial.

    Outrageous request that was rightfully denied.

    I believe I’ll bring my camera along for this one.

    Just because I can.

  491. You go, TT!

  492. Anybody ready for a new thread?

  493. TC: Yes, at almost 500 posts it is time for a new thread. Perhaps admin will start one for us.

  494. I like the picture of the statue base. I bet when they “erect” the statue, the Pilot will take a picture from a distance so it appears Warren is peeping into the top floor of the Temple.

    At least, thats the request.

    😉

  495. How does a judge prohibit news coverage?

    Wouldnt that be a constitutional infringement?

    Imagine, the FLDS asking for that!

    Well they can keep the sheep on the ranch ignorant, but everyone else will see whats goin on!

  496. Is Wallace Jeffs going to be interviewed tonight by Anderson Cooper ?
    Does anyone know ?

  497. YES! love it. Welcome to the real world Leroy & company! What’s the matter? Can’t keep the press reports from leaking into your little gulag?

    As for me, I will have Twitter up for the day getting the blow by blow reports! yes, Texastwist, send in photos!

  498. I think he was taping a show for Anderson’s new show, not the Anderson Cooper 360 on CNN.

    BTW, oral arguments have been denied in Dutson Jr’s Sexual Assault appeal. I done told ya the boy should have married the girl after he found out his actions were against the law, if nothing else, to mitigate the damages.

  499. Polygamist Brian David Mitchell has arrived at a federal maximum security prison in Arizona.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52500560-78/mitchell-prison-smart-federal.html.csp

    And in other Utah related news appears that missing Susan Powell’s body was found in western Utah desert.

    http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/story/UPDATE-Remains-found-in-Juab-County-determined-to/9jelYP5ABE2CzXwOUKclsw.cspx

  500. Please continue on General Discussion #64

    — Thanks, Admin

  501. I don’t watch news much, what’s the name of Anderson Cooper’s new show & when is his show on, what day ??

  502. What’ the name of Anderson Cooper’s new show , & what day of the week is it on ??

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