Dear Brother Lyle (General Discussion #62)

In response to this letter from Will and Willie, Brother Lyle sent a mass text message to FLDS members:

“The enemy has mailed out another mailing.  A trifold letter addressed to Box Holder.  Give it no time.  It is poison.”

The FLDS members who received this text message from Lyle before they picked up their mail and received the letter from Will and Willie likely discarded the letter without even reading it.   Hopefully it was read by some.  Hopefully it will at least plant a seed of curiosity that will lead some to questioning and eventual doubt about their prophet.

While I have my doubts about Willie’s motives and agenda regarding his recent about-face, I do believe that he is in a position to make a positive difference with some of the the rank-and-file.   Whether he is properly or improperly motivated, I hope he continues to speak publicly and reach out to the FLDS community for the purpose of exposing Warren Jeffs and opening their eyes and their hearts.

Maybe just wishful thinking.


~ by FLDS TEXAS on August 21, 2011.

495 Responses to “Dear Brother Lyle (General Discussion #62)”

  1. OK, I have to, begrudgingly, agree that Willie speaking out could have a good effect on those that will listen. He was once looked up to [and feared] by many. These follks [the ones with their hands planted firmly over their ears and eyes] need to hear about Warren’s %$#@ and just what was going on. And not just Warren, ALL of the $#@! that was/is still going on, both in Short Creek and the ranch. Whether they’ll believe it, is another matter. I can only imagine what they want to believe, vs what they are TOLD to believe. With never really having to execise their own thought processes, it’s gotta be a tough choice. Hopefully, some of what Willie says may sink in. Changes definately need to be made. I just hope Willie is doing it for the right reasons.

  2. I too have my doubts about Willie, but if he can open the eyes of some of the sheeple and save some little girls from being raped then I say “More Power To Him”.

  3. I don’t really see any difference between William E. Jessop, Willie Jessop, OR WSJ: Will hasn’t got caught YET !!!!! WETJ & Warren preach the same message: they R in charge, not much difference in them, Willie will follow his own relatives 2 get watt he wants : power & control, not unlike WSJ !!!! A difference? I don’t C it, they R both furthering the agendas…………………. Comp-anon

  4. Maybe someone who got and read the letter will come here to comment about it. I’d love to hear their perspective of the ongoing turmoil. Just what do they think of content of the letter and it’s authors? Are any starting to see the light?

  5. Change is hard especially to insular groups like the FLDS, groups so steeped in tradition and dogma that the ‘outside’ is demonized. I don’t think that an outsider would have a chance in heck gaining their trust. However someone who is ‘one of their own’ who they have known in the past as a good priesthood holder may have a chance. I say give them some time and then judge the two Willies.

  6. This is from January 2005. The Suzanne age 14 mentioned is Suzanne Johnson who became the child bride of Abram Harker Jeffs in October 2005.

    I had Seth Jeffs drive to Albuquerque and then on to Short Creek and he gathered up five young people; the three stepchildren of Uncle Merril and Lydia, named Daniel, age 9, Brigham age 12, and Suzanne age 14, also Richard Nielsen, Wendell’s son, and Patrick Dutson, Keith Duston’s son.
    Those two young men will join the work force after they listen to the trainings. I had Joshua Jeffs deliver the training disks and transcripts to Seth. And those young people listened to the training. And Seth placed them under the covenant before they arrived.

  7. It’s not cool to post names of sexual assault victims. It’s unnecessary and potentionally traumatizing to share that information with the world. Only a rape victim has the right to make his or her identity public knowledge.

  8. Here’s an interesting opinion piece on subject of Warren Jeffs published in a Nevada news paper.

    I would have to agree with the opinion piece, well said!

  9. I don’t really see any difference between William E. Jessop, Willie Jessop, OR WSJ: Will hasn’t got caught YET !!!!! WETJ & Warren preach the same message: they R in charge, not much difference in them, Willie will follow his own relatives 2 get watt he wants : power & control, not unlike WSJ !!!! A difference? I don’t C it, they R both furthering the agendas…………………. Comp-anon
    Anonymous said this on August 21, 2011 at 4:11 PM

    I find that the above is a true statement, yes when Jeffs was on the run Willie the thug & Wiile Fugly were both true blue followers. Yes it boils down to power and control. Don’t forget Willie the Thug’s behavior towards Mike Watkiss, his lies before the Texas legislature and his long history of intimidation and violence to enforce Warren Jeffs edicts.

    As FLDS spokesman and his statements at the courthouse during Warren Jeffs trial show that ole Willie the thug is a true snake oil salesman.

    AS to Willie the fugly, the fact that Warren Jeffs saw him as a prophet while in the Arizona jail, shows that he can’t be much better than Warren Jeffs, who knows what’s in his past that that felonious profit Warren Jeffs would see him as a man of the same class as himself.

  10. Does anyone really believe that either of the Willies will give the woman more freedom?

  11. Both Willies belong behind bars. A month or so ago Willie was whining that one of his wives was being kicked out of a home that didn’t have her listed on the lease.

    And it was how many months ago that Willie was in the news talking about where a family should or shouldn’ t bury their child.

    The letter from the Willies is intimidating imo. and I am sure there is a whole lot more of that inside waiting to come out.

    The Willies have enough to do tending to their own life and lifestyle.

    Women in prisons? Happens everyday. From all walks of life.
    They didn’ t know it was against the law? How many courts have heard that and still put people in jail.

    Trading for money or prepping for sale- Many mothers go to jail and there is no “Safety Net” there is no ” special treatments” there is only the closing of the jail doors.

  12. Any more 2 B said about both Willies ???? I don’t think so !!!!! They R no different or better than WSJ !!!!!!!!! If they R, they better prove it NOW or SHUT UP !!!!!!!!! Comp-anon

  13. I remember my mother used to tell me, “Pretty is, as pretty does.”

    I can adapt that wisdom to say, “Willie is, as Willie does.”

    And neither of the 2 Willies have done very well so far. Willie R “Thugly” Jessop has lied and lied and lied some more for MANY years trying to cover up the abuses in the FLDS and making lame excuses for the FLDS. Willie E “Fugly” Jessop has also done his share of terrible acts.

    They are both now clamoring for control and influence over the FLDS members. The Willies want the money!!!

    The alternative, Lyle Jeffs, is an equally scary thought.

    What a mess for the faithful FLDS followers.

    Can’t they just denounce both of the evil options thrown in their faces and find their own ways in the world? They don’t have to be led by dictators to find their way to salvation and heaven!!!

  14. Any more 2 B said about both Willies ???? I don’t think so !!!!! They R no different or better than WSJ !!!!!!!!! If they R, they better prove it NOW or SHUT UP !!!!!!!!! Comp-anon

    Anonymous said this on August 21, 2011 at 11:11 PM

    Amen to that Comp-anon. But Lyle Jeffs running the church on behalf of his convicted pedophile brother, Warren, is no better.

    Double amen.

  15. Sis, I appreciate your concern, but Warren Steed Jeffs made this rape victim’s name public. Warren Steed Jeffs took away the rights of the rape victim(s) to make his or her identity public knowledge, not this blog.

  16. I believe the men in the FLDS group that were wrongly cast out should be brought back to there stations. I believe these were/are men who were/are trusted by the FLDS people. These men were pillars in this community and are “old school” polygamy (back when these kids were mainstreamed into public schools, read books, became educated, and young woman could actually marry a young man she was attracted to, instead of an ol’ horny geezer she is now assigned to, and before the pervert Warren Jeffs weaseled himself into being their prophet and then slowly used his position to seclude and brainwash these people and eventually prey on young vulnerable kids. Additionally, these “cast out” men have had several years on the “outside” and many have made “outside friends” and seen that the “outside” is not totally evil. Unfortunately, only Warren Jeffs can make that call, and put them in positions that can influence and move their community back into something closer to normalcy. Polygamy is not going away, especially within the FLDS. It is a religious principle. They will continue practicing there religion. However, it can be cleaned up. Men who have multiple wives, let these women be mature (of age) educated women deciding this is what they want as well. These men who want to live this lifestyle let them take on the full financial responsibility as well. Legalize polygamy, monitor it, and then we can save 100’s of millions in medicaid as well.

  17. Anonymous said this on August 22, 2011 at 12:01 AM” Said:
    “Sis, I appreciate your concern, but Warren Steed Jeffs made this rape victim’s name public. Warren Steed Jeffs took away the rights of the rape victim(s) to make his or her identity public knowledge, not this blog”
    Right. My mistake. Now I feel stupid for not knowing who she was until I read that post.

  18. Watt can B done about Lyle Jeffs ? He’s no different than thug Willie or William E. Jessop & definltely on par with WSJ……. Throw the bastard Lyle in prison, let him B friends with bubba’s in prison , there’s no way 2 stop him other than that way, @ least not 1 I can think of !!!!!!!!! Comp-anon

  19. Walton, I totally get it. Some of these FLDS women belong in prison. Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. And it’s certainly no excuse for not stepping in and protecting a child. But FLDS women in a prison- acting all racist and rightous – wow. Actually, that would be a Sisterwives reality show worth watching, though I would worry for their safety.

    And to whomever asked me if my knowledge of Texas prisons was first hand…Really? I have a television. Prison is prison but Texas is not Provo.

  20. Sis- no, I really don’t want to see some of these women going to prison. But let me share this with you.

    A mentally challened man trades his mentally challenged 14 year old daughter for a 100 # bag of potatoes. Jail or no jail?

    A young man (18-19) grew up in a home where his parents had more prescription drugs than the small town pharmacy. Taking pills everyday for what ever reason. The kid grew up in la la land and when he got old enough started taking his parents pills. Got into some trouble with bad checks. vandalism etc. This time he set a Church on fire in the night. Told the Judge he didn’t know what he was doing as he was all messed up on drugs. Jail or no jail?

    Another young man was arrested after he got caught trying to set his fathers house on fire. The boy was 12. The reason he tried to set the house on fire was that he was sick of his father molesting him. Jail or no jail?

    A young girl who grew up in a home of alcoholics began drinking at the age of 9 or 10. She was an alcholoic by the age of 14. Became a mother at the age of 17. Left the baby to go get more booze and when the neighbors called the cops due to the cries heard from the baby, the mother had already been gone for 2 days. Jail or no jail?

    A couple traded their 14 year old daughter for payments made to their mini-van. Jail or no jail?

    A gypsy couple bring their 13-14 year old daughter to a truck stop to prostitute her out to some of the truckers. Mom gets her dressed and dad collects the money. Jail or no jail?

    Out of all those stories only one couple did NOT get jail time. It was the gypsy couple. Reason being is that they were from another country and ended up getting off on probation.

    Maybe prison to them would be going to work everyday for 8 hours and living in a half-way house with others who also face challenges with the outside world. A different set of probation rules written up.

    After watching a few of those safety net meetings I kept hearing how everyone on the outside doesn’t understand them. What I saw was they didn’t understand that many others on the outside face challanges everyday with some of them being greater than being teased because of the clothes they wear. or how their hair is done.

    Speaking of sister wives- NPR had a little something about maybe another couple doing a show? I think Morni (?) was mentioned in the article. I would have thought that due to the coverage of Warren Jeffs trial that TLC would have had the decency to pull the plug on the shows. Tacky beyond words imo.

  21. Maybe the Jessopi need to perform plural texting as well.

    Just thinkin…

  22. I think that the men who were kicked out should step up for their kids. They need to fight for custody or visitation, whatever. If the FLDS have someone on the outside who is checking up on things they will be less likely to get away with some of the crap they have up until now. If Dad gets visitation every other weekend, it’s gonna be harder to keep 13 year old little Suzys marriage a secret. Much less poofing will happen.

  23. Ok Walton – fair is fair.

    What if a man holds a child down while a woman rapes her? Does he go to jail?

  24. Walton –

    Is he legally incompetent? If no, jail. Daughter with a relative or foster care permanently.
    Jail. Don’t want him on the street and there are (understandably) almost no programs that will accept arsons.
    Get this child away from his dad and into a mental health program. In most states, that means jail.
    Jail. She’s an adult. I know lots of people with alcoholic parents who are neither drunks nor bad parents.
    Jail and lots of it.
    Jail or deportation.

    I really don’t get your point in listing all this. Why should these people NOT go to jail? If the mentally incompetent steal a CD from a store they go to jail but we should not punish them if they sell their own relatives into slavery?

    The adult “wives” who held a girl down while she was raped have more accountability that anyone other than WSJ and I’m really fine if they go to jail for a long time. Make the others think before they submit to an order that is immoral. Naomi can take her “gifts” to jail pretty much indefinitely as far as I’m concerned. The mothers who made nice dresses for their 14 year old daughter’s “weddings”; jail. The fathers who drove their daughters across states or across national boundaries in order that they be impregnated illegally;jail. The fathers and mothers who stood up and witnessed a marriage that would not have been legal even if the man was not already married; jail. And lots of it. We won’t stop this madness with small gestures and sentences of a few days. We have had child molesters getting off with sentences of days or weeks for generations and then going right back to their child brides and getting them pregnant again. It’s time for that to stop!

  25. Walton, I see….you were responding to Sis. Sorry, I get your post now.

    Sis, who says they are ignorant of the law? We have evidence of several sermons given about how the law would come down on them. The men instructed the women how to hide the illegal activity. The women used cellphones and various tricks to confuse the CPS workers and law enforcement and were quite effective at it. They knew specifically to lie about their ages and whose child was whose. Sounds like they knew very well what the law is; they just don’t care. Let’s help motivate them to care in the future by sending them to jail like we would any pimp or accomplice to rape.

  26. Betty I agree with all three of your posts!

    Definately agree about the FLDS women. They know that they are doing something that is considered wrong and illegal in the outside world. But since they think they are in their own little world, they can do whatever they think (the leaders tell them) is right.

    They have to realize, they do live in the outside world. It has jurisdiction over them. I believe that the FLDS men that are behind bars now were shocked that they got served. Shocked that the outside world had come to them. They have grown up being taught that they have complete control over their land, their cities and their lives and it just doesn’t click to them that they can’t get away with it.

    But regardless of the situation, including all the situations Walton gave earlier, you must follow the Countrys laws. If you don’t know them, or pretend to not know them, thats no excuse. Our justice system is supposed to protect innocents by keeping the criminals seperated from them. If the law makes an excuse for every illiterate criminal who can’t read our laws, innocents wouldn’t be safe. Said innocents have a right to be protected, and the justice system has an obligation to protect.

    Prosecute the women. It may take a few generations of pain, but the underage marriages will fall significanly if you charge the mothers. I’m all in favor of rehabilitating a few to save many.

    Anyways…Just my opinion….


  27. Also, the anon at 12:32 was me…..Cleaned my cookies and forgot to put my name in again! 🙂

  28. I agree with Flora, this will not stop till the Mother’s are put in jail for their part. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Never has been; never will be. I too am sure they understand US laws, they just chose not to follow them.

    Question is if there is enough evidence to convict and some backbone of LE to do it. Thanks to Warren there are many written documents and photos too! Now to the backbone quesiton….

  29. Hear hear watergirl!

    Now how do we go about persuing our agenda to get these women prosecuted?

    A bet there are enough of us on here to get some attention if we all wrote a lawman of sorts.

    But what else can we do?? Besides sit around and hear the sickening tales of child rape….

    *sigh*…..I feel so defeated over this

  30. From watching, I think that they wanted to get the Warren data out there so they can get the “oh poor women” supporters off their backs before they start the next phase of indictments.

    At least that is my wishful thinking

  31. Shurtelff has always used the excuse in Utah, that there isn’t enough evidence. Not enough people pressing charges, not enough evidence to convict, which I have always thought was BS. But, I am hoping with Tx. evidence they can go after the money trail. And hopefully there will be enough evidence to at least toast Naomi. She was obviously knee deep in it. Of course one of my worries too is that as long as it will take LE to bring a case (if they do) these people could be anywhere. Even Canada or Mexico. They will be hidden away and hard to find.

  32. I wouldn’t trust Willie Jessop any farther than I can throw him- and he is a big guy. He and his buddies are just a group of lying, cheating, bullying, narcissistic, sex-offending pedophiles and probably murderers who want to control women and children and say it is God’s work. I’d bet money that nothing has changed in the FLDS and if we really knew all they are still up to “in the name of religion” we would not be able to believe the truth.

  33. Should some of these females do prison time?

    The best answer is to ask, if males did what she did, would he do prison time?

    Also ask, if not FLDS or polygamists, would the female go to prison?

  34. Enough of the bickering about Computerese. Stop discussing it. I am going to delete any post from here on that argues about it. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Comp-anon, Betty is just as entitled to say what she has to say as you are, but I am tired of it being the discussion.

    It’s done, it’s over.

    EDITED: I deleted several posts that discussed computerese. I will delete more if necessary. That isn’t the topic of this blog. If Anon – Comp wants to use computerese then that is his/her choice. If you don’t like it, don’t read the posts, but stop commenting on the use of it.

  35. The discomfort with the Willie’s for me is they don’t represent the significant change to end several chronic felony practices. The last major schism in the FLDS Church was when Centennial Park split off over “One Man Rule”, neither Willie’s are talking about recanting that teaching. Secondly, this built YFZ Temple invites the historical resurrection of ordinances and sessions that are sequestered from public view and knowledge and invites back the secrecy and covert actions, neither Willie’s are talking about recanting that behaviors. The FLDS Church tenet opposes US Constitution 13th Amendment on slavery and owning another human being, neither Willie’s are talking about recanting that teaching. The offer’s from Willie R. has been to stop ‘Child Bride’ sealings, tearing down the cloistered enclaves and opening up the community back to a prior status but at best these are only modest changes and wholly inadequate when compared to the now known evidences.

    Half-measures and incremental moves is yet another form of defense to momentarily appease and numb the criticism. Relaxing “One Man Rule”, setting a new higher age of consent and continuing polygamy, leaving the Temple desecrated but available for renewal and ending the ownership of women/children will leave enough power to reconstitute these practices again and without a notice with the next “living” prophet.

    The Willie’s offers aren’t powerful enough just powers changing hands.

  36. Thank you Admin!

  37. Ariel said this: ” But regardless of the situation, including all the situations Walton gave earlier, you must follow the Countrys laws. If you don’t know them, or pretend to not know them, thats no excuse. Our justice system is supposed to protect innocents by keeping the criminals seperated from them. If the law makes an excuse for every illiterate criminal who can’t read our laws, innocents wouldn’t be safe. Said innocents have a right to be protected, and the justice system has an obligation to protect. ”

    That is it. right there. Protecting the innocent.

    It doesn’t matter if your black or white. Doesn’t matter if you dress one way or another, doesn’t matter if your Catholic or FLDS.

    The laws need to be followed thru. Which has been a MAJOR problem in Utah and Arizona.

    Had Utah and Arizona stepped up years ago this wouldn’t have taken place. imo

    Shurtleff has had proof brought to him on a silver platter and still managed to screw it up with his “still investigating” BS.

    But.. what about the rest of the state? Same thing. Writing to anyone there is in my opinion pointless.

    What other state takes the side of those who break the law? What other AG stands on stage and says .. Ahhh go ahead but if you break two laws we MIGHT come after you? Seriously who does that? And even then.. they can’t tell me they don’t have the proof to go after some of these guys.

    How many case workers right now are going into homes that are full aware of laws being broke and nothing is being reported. Some of those case workers are on the band wagon to push polygamy.

    Shurtleff doesn’t need to arrest them all to get things started. Arrest some of the ones we know about and send them to jail and nail their pocket book. Take their vehicles. ( they take away driving privelages of those who don’t pay child support in different states) (they put people in jail for not paying child support in different states) ( the mothers of children that are school age must work)

    In one of the articles from gosanangelo Willie stated that he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars defending Warren. Was it his money? With all the BS Willie has pulled should his wives be living in a home without her name on the lease? No taxes paid.

    Fine his arse to the moon and back imo.

  38. Here on one page is a group of stories that gosanangelo just recently put out. Very good articles and I think very informative.

    Thanks gosanangelo team! 🙂

  39. Should some of these females do prison time?

    The best answer is to ask, if males did what she did, would he do prison time? Also ask, if not FLDS or polygamists, would the female go to prison?

    Anonymous said this on August 22, 2011 at 1:25 PM

    Very good!! That is the criteria to ask in any situation. There should not be any privilege or discrimination when it comes to law or even in our own daily dealings with others. Treating women differently only agrees with the FLDS definition of them being property and not human beings. I can hear my Grandmother now saying, “What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.”

  40. I have never posted on this blog before, but I have followed it for a while because it seems to be the most open and least judgemental on the subject. However, I don’t know that I completely agree with the consensus that all of the mothers need to be jailed. I want to preface my explanation by assuring all reading it that I am mortified at what was/is happening with the FLDS children, and I DO think something needs to be done to stop this horrible crisis. However…..

    My understanding is that these women were raised in this church NOT to question the Prophet. To question the prophet means possible excommunication and eternal damnation. If he asked for their daughter, and they refused – they would spend an eternity in hell for doubting GOD. If they allowed their daughter to say no, they risked HER eternal damnation as well as the questioning of her upbringing (them) and whether they were worthy to be a part of God’s people. Same thing with the girls/women involved in WSJ’s sessions. If these females did not participate, they were told that GOD would be angry with them. It would seem to reason they would also have it in their minds that they needed to help this CHILD to be obediant to God to ensure her salvation (or ?exaltation? I think).

    The comparison I keep seeing in my head is someone holding a gun to your head, or to your child’s head and saying do this or else. Only it’s worse, because you know you’re going to have to live in ‘hell’ for the rest of your life among the “evil” population, and then continue your punishment for all eternity in hell if you refuse.

    It’s terrorism, and blackmail, and brainwashing all wrapped up in the guise of assuring you make it to heaven. It’s completely abhorrent and terrifying. I don’t have an answer as to what to do to teach these women that they are wrong…that they do have a choice, and the choice isn’t “heaven or hell”. Right now that’s the only choice they think they have. I am so heartbroken and terrified for these women and their children.

    Thank all for your time.

  41. Godschild….you are correct. The fear of hell drives them, but unless there is some fear of the secular world it won’t change…. I think that they should lose custody of their children myself for child abuse which would likely be sufficient punishment…. Except those who help “tie” down the victims, I am guessing that would be Naomi.

    I would like to see the child protection services in the affected states go through the dictations and remove all children from any of the participating families.

  42. If you took the words God,Christ,saints,church, etc out of the picture,all you have left is a bunch of child rapist that use the older women as “prepping tools” to use on the children.That’s it,nothing else.As Warren said after all the filthy evidence was put before him,”I am at peace with myself.” This solidify’s the fact that he is an incorrigible jerk ,beyond repair and needs help from no one. Now just where the hell does this leave the rest of the FLDS leaders ? Remember that Iraqi Defense Minister , Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf ? Lyle certainly got some good cues from him.When you have nothing to lose,throw out the biggest lies possible.Someone just might believe them. These guys hung out with one of the biggest turds that ever existed,they smell just as bad.

  43. James, just to be clear, he said “I am at peace”. That was it. Nothing else. He said that at the 24 minute mark of his 30 minutes allotted for his closing argument.

  44. Has anyone else read Debra Weyerman’s new book “Answer Them Nothing”?

    WOW what a great book! She nails the FLDS – and the Salt Lake Tribune. It’s nice to see someone who’s not hoodwinked by Mormon polygamists and polygamy apologists.

  45. There are a few things I’d like her to correct in future printings but overall it is a good book.

  46. Interesting, The Deseret News which is owned by LDS church posted this article:

    Which calls for federal task force to investigate FLDS and like groups, is similar to articles posted in San Angelo paper. The usually tough moderators even allowed posts under the comments section which surprised me.

  47. Proud Texan,thanks for the clarification.I didn’t mean to convey the wrong message.

  48. I first read that letter on the freethefldschildren blog.The guy that runs that site has some issues….and a filthy mouth.I wouldn’t let my wife read it.

  49. What does this mean?,%20John%20W

    on the top tab it says ” Latter Day Saint Movement “

  50. Warren also said something about being hung from the highest tree. I tried to find some kind of connection to the FLDS or the LDS and the only thing I found is an old Roger Miller Song titled Dang Me. Roger Miller Dang Me

    He should have quoted something from the song King of the Road by Roger Miller

    Trailers for sale or rent
    Rooms to let…fifty cents.
    No phone, no pool, no pets
    I ain’t got no cigarettes

    Ah, but..two hours of pushin’ broom
    Buys an eight by twelve four-bit room
    I’m a man of means by no means
    King of the road.


  51. walton, John Timpson is the head dude on the Centennial Park Priesthood Council. I don’t know what that web site you linked to is all about.

  52. walton, that domain name is a sub domain

    Here is the WHOIS on the root domain

    But I still have no idea who they are, why they are, or what they’re trying to say/accomplish.


    owner: David Weekly
    organization: Weekly
    address: 1825 South Grant Street 850
    city: San Mateo, CA


    U.S. Attorney Brett Tolman is responding to calls for more justice department involvement here in Utah in light of the FLDS raid in Texas, but Tolman says he won’t buy into the criticism.

    Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff earlier this week responded angrily to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s call for a justice department investigation into the FLDS communities.

    Brett Tolman says a federal task force would only deal with federal crimes.

    “That would be fine, but the majority of crime that we are talking about here that may be involving the FLDS or any other community would be a state crime,” says U.S. Attorney Brett Tolman.

    I think there was a meeting involved with Marci Hamilton and she gave them all a what for. LOL it was great,

    I won’t even begin to understand all the different agencies with the govt. and their exact roles. Maybe this is one of those things that the FBI tried but couldn’t. Or some one in the CIA said no– that is our department – or the people from Homeland Security said… no that isn’t your area it is our area and in the mean while old ladies (and young ones) are left to digging and snooping around trying to figure out why there isn’t someone stepping up to the plate and saying so.

    What ever the problem is imo there must be a man in charge because I see no multi-tasking being done. Actually, I see Texas working.

    2 Texas Rangers in every state is what is needed. ( one probably could do the job but he should have a side kick for obvious reasons)

  54. hee hee walton, that “King of the Road” song is good. Warren is now king of the five-by-ten Cell-o-Steel Kingdom – FOR LIFE.

    “I’m a man of means by no means … King of the road.”

  55. I think Brett Tolman is a pretty good guy. He was just in the WRONG place – UTAH. Remember the new Utah state motto – Life FUBAR.

    From that wonderful state bringing you 2 of the next presidential candidates – Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman – YIKES !!!!

  56. Anon.@ 10:06. I know. John W. Timpson the very same guy from CPark
    also has some type of mfg. company (that is how it is listed) and so is this connection with the Latter Day Saint Movement.

    So what does that mean?

    I know CParks what the FLDS have for a lot of reasons. Water. Water. Water and some more water. Then of course to get to that water they have to have the land.


  57. He didn’t actually say in court about being hung from the tallest tree. It was read from his dictations. Since it came in the punishment phase, it would have been read by Sargent Wes Hensley of the AG’s office. Unfortunately for Warren, that wasn’t one of the options given to the jury for his punishment.

  58. Romney is wishy washy and I think Huntsman has a problem with his memory. One day he is all about the LDS Church and the next he is unsure about things.

    Neither have talked about the Polygamy issue seriously. Romney made jokes when he first thru his hat into the ring. I find nothing funny about the issue. Romney has some major issues with some “troubled teen camps” and imo I think he is shady.

    Huntsman is also a no go with me because of his past history solving some issues (or not solving) inside. Huntsman is a yes man.

    I liked Tolman. You should have seen his face though when Marci Hamilton told them all. It was that one moment when she was talking that it looked like it all kicked in. I felt kinda bad for the guy, because it wasn’t until then he really understood. But the end result was that they still didn’t do anything.

    I understand that there is one part of the FBI doing things but there is another part that is answering to someone that is holding the good guys back. And I am going to keep snooping until I look that guy in the eye. 🙂 Tough to look me in the eye when I am casting out the mad mom look. I think even Willie would say he was sorry just to choo me away.

  59. I think at the trial they testified that there were 144 Rangers. That would cover 2 per state and still leave enough back here in Texas.

    Tomorrow’s the hearing for Darger and Barlow.

  60. I seriously think the Feds underestimated the scope of the problem. All these Mann Act violations are their problem. John Broadway testified to them in Court. He said they were federal crimes.

    Now they know federal crimes exist, so they need to get their butts in gear and take care of them. They can go through the dictations day by day and just start arresting all the scum (men and women) who took their baby girls across state and international borders and gave them like property to an old geezer.

  61. I know that many people gave the CPS hell for going in and rescuing the children.If it happens again,I wonder if public opinion has changed since the trial.

  62. More on the “King of the Road” song

    I know every man I’ve “handled” away
    All of his children, and all of their names
    And every underage girl in every town
    And how to marry them off
    When no one’s around.

    I sing,
    Trailers for sale or rent
    Rooms to let, fifty cents
    No phone, no pool, no pets
    But I’ve got a United Order yet.
    Ah, but, two hours of pushin’ broom
    Buys a five-by-ten prison room
    I’m a man of means by no means
    King of the road.

    Does King Warren, the convicted pedophile prophet, still rule in his little Cell-o-Steel?

  63. I know that many people gave the CPS hell for going in and rescuing the children.If it happens again,I wonder if public opinion has changed since the trial.

    James said this on August 22, 2011 at 10:59 PM

    James, I think that the general public would need to be reminded of the heinous crimes that Warren Jeffs committed. Sadly, the general public tends to forget such abominable crimes after a short time.

    I know that people in the state of Utah and Arizona do.

  64. hey walton, i remember seeing Marci and Tolman 🙂

  65. i can’t find the video yet, but here’s the link for the July 2008 hearing : CRIMES ASSOCIATED WITH POLYGAMY: THE NEED FOR A COORDINATED STATE AND FEDERAL RESPONSE


    here’s the video

  67. Maybe Jeremy can get a few tips from Warren

    Jeremy Johnson considers dropping lawyers

    ST. GEORGE – St. George businessman Jeremy Johnson is considering dropping his lawyers and representing himself, apparently frustrated with his defense team after having sat in jail since early June.

    Johnson delivered a letter Monday to U.S. Magistrate Judge David Nuffer in Salt Lake City during a hearing in his mail fraud case, explaining some of his concerns and even alluding to self-representation, said Nathan Crane, the public defender assigned to Johnson’s case.

  68. Why in the world would Jeremy Johnson be entitled to a public defender?

  69. Jeremy doesnt have any money for his own attorneys – as all his funds were allegedly scammed and hence ordered returned.

    Oh, I think he still has millions stashed – he just cant get to it and spend it without exposing its existence – quite an interesting spot he got himself into.

    Would love to see him represent himself.

    He is a classic narcissist, like Warren, and will perform about as well.

  70. It’s terrorism, and blackmail, and brainwashing all wrapped up in the guise of assuring you make it to heaven.
    Godschild said this on August 22, 2011 at 5:50 PM

    I completely understand your point of view. I am sure if any are on trial their defense will be they were brainwashed into complicacy. Ervil LeBaron and Charles Mason was able to convince others to kill for them. David Mitchell convinced his wife to go along with daily rapes of Elizabeth Smart. No one seems to be defending these characters yet, here we are trying to find a way to defend the sheeple women.

    I just keep wondering if Warren were more evil and instead of raping little girls he commanded his sheeple to start killing those who oppose them would they do it as well? And at what point will sheeple stop submitting to a prophet to save their spot in heaven?

  71. Funny, Medslacking posted that letter from the lil willies.

    He highlighted the first line threat and this line:

    “no one has the right to cover up immoral conduct,”

    When did Bill grow a conscious? He has been trying to cover up this immoral conduct for years, right along with the rest of the FLDS, and now he is siding with the opposition?


    What would a McDufus think?

  72. Watergirl

    For some it ends when they drink the koolaid.

    The problem is if the FLDS try to get violent the FEDS will pull them apart limb from limb.

  73. Godschild, I agree with other posters that there has to be some line drawn. Everyone in the religion has the same salvation blackmail and we cannot give them all a pass legally because of it. Also, no one has said “all” the mothers should go to jail. As with any other crime, each one should have due process. Many mothers are not guilty for a variety of reasons. Apparently many mothers DID object at first and Warren changed his M.O. to bypass the mothers or keep them ignorant of their daughter’s assignments.

  74. MadeWacky finds himself instead of being with the Prophet, Priesthood and the FLDS Church, he’s befriended Willie R “Thug” Jessop, supposedly but Willie now disavows BillM’s friendship, who is now worshipping from afar. Po’ Grampa BillM has backed the apostate and he has no more position or side to ally but to grasp at Willie’s letter in the lost hope that a ‘Gentile’ will yet find friends within the FLDS Church. It’s idiotic and points up the fact that MadeWacky ain’t got no dog in this dispute, he isn’t an apostate nor believer he just has his nose stuck somewhere that it doesn’t belong. Even his exBishop-buddy Winston Blackmore up in BC has stopped talking with him.

  75. Guess madwacky (in his mind only) is willie’s friend and not warren’s or lyle’s friend. Kind of painted himself into a corner since willie now disassociates himself from madwacky.

  76. Yes. old madwacky painted himself into a corner by coming out against warren and lyle and for the willies. However, the willies don’t seem to want anything to do with madwacky so he is not warren’s friend or willie’s friend, just twisting in the wind.

  77. Sounds like the Marshall Applewhite ( Heavens Gate) & Jim Jones situation all over again !!!! Make the Kool-Aid now & make sure you give to your sheeple …………. Comp-anon

  78. In terms of getting State and Federal officials to step up and enforce the law –

    Here is what I think the real problem is: The FLDS issue pits respect for religious and cultural differences against other fundamental values. Mainstream society doesn’t know how to weigh one against the other.

    The unofficial religion of the US is not Christianity – it is the concept of respect for universal human rights. That is what we preach around the world and (inconsistently) pursue with much of our foreign policy – especially if it happens to align with our national interests. We see global respect for human rights as the key to global stability. This is an important point to keep in mind. Here’s why:

    When I talk to other people who have only the most cursory knowledge of the FLDS in general and Warren Jeffs in particular, they are horrified by the child rapes and the welfare fraud – but not that moved by the plight of the people inside the FLDS in general. The reason is that we have been taught from birth to respect religious differences – and the FLDS has been brilliant about playing to that message.

    The only way to change that attitude – and therefore motivate a stronger governmental response – is for people who have suffered any kind of abuse at the hands of the FLDS – to come forward and make their voices heard – and demand change. The stories don’t have to be as dramatic as Elissa Walls. Loss of home, family, assets, personal freedom, denial of education, etc. – are all abuses Americans identify with – but they need to hear from the victims themselves. Americans are tired of rushing in to provide “aid” to communities that don’t want help. Outsiders like me have almost no impact – unless I were interviewing people on the ground to help them get *their* stories out.

    The abuses are real and widespread – but only those who suffer from them – (and that list includes friends and relatives who are denied access to those they love), can effectively advocate for change.

    I noticed a training document put together by a network of social support agencies in Utah tasked with “helping” the FLDS – and it is a pathetic example of why victims need to step up in large numbers and tell their stories – all of their stories. The material talked about the importance of “building trust” in the communities – and that enforcing other laws only drove people further underground. In other words, “actively look the other way and wait for people to call with a direct request for help”. That’s why you get the nothing response we’ve seen all these years. That won’t change – unless people who are directly effected by the crimes of the FLDS start to advocate for change – and in so doing, tip the balance from protection of religious freedom – to protection of all other fundamental human rights.

  79. At the trial Willie certainly distanced himself from MadBill. He said he had met the guy in person 1 time when he crashed a picnic Willie and family were having. As for the supposed long conversation at Willie’s office, according to Willie it never happened. He said at that time he wouldn’t have let a gentile in his office, that he was being watched 24/7.

  80. Jerrie, good point. I think the Safety Net should be defunded as it is not serving the purpose that those who initially funded it wanted – it is 180 degrees away from that purpose.

  81. Oops,
    last anonymous was me HHG responding to Jerrie

  82. Earthquake news:

    can’t help but think about my posting buddies living in these areas.
    I also can’t help but think about all the dowackadoo’s that will use this as to keep people frightened.

  83. I live with earthquakes, being a So Cal gal…but yes, WJ JUST might try to take credit, in his own putrified mind, for shaking up things. It would have been more believeable if he’d predicted…but, hey, anythng to scare the faithfull into thinking he is all powerful [pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!]

  84. Here’s an interview with Carolyn Jessop that was published in the San Angelo paper. From article: “More work has been done in the last three years in Texas than in the last 60 years in Utah and Arizona,” she said.

    Read the rest at link below.

  85. Don’t worry Walton, the earthquake just shook the walls a little here – and shut down the airport. We’re ok.

  86. Juliekan thanks for the video. I watched it twice. After watching it and seeing Brett Tolman – I got to thinking that it was a different time that Marci Hamilton faced those in Utah.

    So I went digging… here it is. But when it all first came out you could watch it on video. The link that was provided by Brooke is no longer working. But I remember. 🙂 She took them all to the line and said it straight out. It wasn’t Brett Tolman it was Torgenson.

    At the Senate hearing Brett kept talking about the things that they investigated. Lots of things. But I don’t remember hearing many that ended with results. I think that is what Marci was getting at.

    That and the fact that little is done to prevent the crimes only that there was more to help the victims. So in a nut shell the victim list continues to grow but little is done to prevent the crime. How many arrests have been made since Texas?

  87. Bib 🙂 Good to hear. I just visited with some friends/ family over on that side of the country and they said the same. I told them to get their hats on and plug into Art Bell for the next forcast. lol

    I can almost hear that radio preacher man having a hay day with this.

  88. The other day I mentioned that NPR had a little story about the possibilty of a new sister wives program. Inside that article they had two people that they visited with a woman suposedly from Wisconsin and Moroni.

    These circles just keep going round and round imo.

    I remembered that Moroni and his wives did a little thing for tv not so long ago. And that he blogged about it. Apparently he is till blogging. And he has in the past said that he doesn’t mind answering questions. He is more open and willing to talk then the likes of the Brown family imo.

    You can find clips to the little documentary on youtube. Dawn also interviewed others which looking back now.. is rather interesting the people a person see. 🙂

    I checked on that woman they were talking to and I couldn’t find anything but a few posts. So I am thinking that it is all for show.

  89. The woman interviewed with Moroni is not one of his wives, it is a woman who is using a pseudonym.

  90. Warren Jeffs moved :

  91. I live about 45 minutes from the epicenter of the earthquake (Mineral, VA a small town with a nuclear facility and a large, pretty lake). Our house banged like it was a washing machine with an out of balance load in it. I thought the roof was going to come apart. Stuff slid off the glass coffee table and all the bowls and teacups in the china cabinet were askew. Cats were very disturbed but quickly ran out into the yard, which seems like a good move. No damage though. I read that the national cathedral in DC was structurally damaged, which is sad, cause it’s a beautiful building. We are really not used to this sort of thing here. I think this earthquake is the strongest in more than 100 years and close to a record for Virginia.

  92. Nice analysis, Jerrie and well said. Thanks.

  93. Walton – the woman they interviewed on NPR with Moroni Jessop is named Julie Austin, (not Halcomb) and here is a link to her blog.

  94. The biggest impact here seems to be some power and phone outages. A lot of offices and colleges were closed down. Haven’t heard about airports.

  95. Walton, here is a link to the blog of Julie’s husband Richard – when he married Julie their wedding was the subject of a documentary. They were excommunicated from the LDS church.

  96. Ironically, some of my dearest friends that I camp with in my medieval re-enactment are polyamorous. They face some of the same issues as small polygamist families, except that there is no lord and master based on the bible component and it is all highly consensual and self defined. In many cases, it is more evenly balanced between genders and does not necessarily revolve around one person. I have never heard of any polyamorous units that were predatory of children, although I guess in this big world anything is possible. I had some interesting conversations wtih them about the differences between what they are doing and what a polygynist, closed cult does. They were as appalled by Warren Jeffs as I am. Since they are very much about consent, honesty and defining your own relationships, the idea that young people are told they have no choice but to follow a particular marriage structure or be damned is one they find very evil. However, they think most religious monogamists do the same thing to their young….

  97. Thank you to all who responded to my post. A special thank you to hellohellogoodbye. Your logic resonated with me to the core. I realized when reading your post that I see these women as children in a way…Their minds haven’t been allowed to mature – they are naive of all things NOT FLDS. And like children, the only way to make them change is by showing them there are consequences for their actions. I do agree that the children should be taken and only allowed visitation after they have been rehabilitated, or possibly never again.

    Watergirl, well – Ervil Lebaron and Charles Manson were a little before my time, and I don’t know anything about Lebaron (yet – I’m going to look him up!). But as far as Manson’s followers, I have read about them, and I did think about the fact that they were brainwashed. I hurt for them and their victims and all of the family members of each. I hate that they ruined their lives and the lives of the people they touched because of their bliind faith in that man. The difference with them to me – they CHOSE to believe in him. They weren’t raised from the time they were born believing this was the only way. So I do hold them more responsible. As for David Mitchell’s wife – she was exposed to the “real world”, she knew what she was doing was wrong. I don’t excuse her because she wasn’t completely sheltered from reality like the FLDS women were/?are?. I’m not arguing, I promise, I just wanted to respond so you would know (maybe) a little bit of who I am/ why I feel the way I do.

    I have a tendency to have a bleeding heart, and I know that. I hesitated to open the discussion because I was raised that if you don’t like how something is done, you first come up with an alternative – THEN open your mouth. And I simply don’t have one to offer. I relate to the outrage everyone feels about these women playing a part in these little girls’ rapes – be it through simply allowing it or playing a part in it. (and then the dreaded word)BUT they were all raised in a bubble, isolated from outside influences. They were taught from the time they were born (my knowledge only comes from reading – no real life experience) that their reason for existing is to ?earn? their place in heaven, and that anything outside of that effort was sin. What the prophet says goes – THE END. Obtaining exaltation IS their life. There is no “but” to them if he tells them God wants this done, they have no recourse except to be damned or allow their child to be damned and punished the rest of their lives and their eternal lives. In other words, their lives are over to them. (Refer back to hellohellogoodbye – thank you so much for helping me see that they do HAVE to be punished somehow regardless of this because that may be the only way to put an end to what’s happening.)

    Now, I love God, I am a Christian, and I try my best to do what is pleasing to Him. I would not allow these things to happen to my children (yep, I’m a mom – one 18, one 9, and one 8) because I have the freedom to read the Bible, understand it on my own, and make my own decisions. No human has the power to tell me that if I don’t do it his/her way then I’ll be angering God. Where and how I was raised taught me that I have that freedom. It just seems that they were taught that to think for oneself is a sin from the time they were infants…That is a bigger stumbling block than it may seem.

    I am so sorry this ended up so long. I promise to be more concise and to the point in the future…..and less looooong-winded!!

    Thank you again everyone, your responses really are helping me. Please know I am not defending the behavior, just trying to look deeper.


  98. that’s one 8, not one smiley face…lol

  99. No problem being long winded; I enjoyed reading your post.


    Pleas entered in the corruption charges for the fire department at short creek

  101. Godschild,

    I too am queasy about putting all these abused mothers, fathers, in jail, but the problem has been that everybody has been queasy and when there are no consequences the whole system is ripe for plucking by someone like Jeffs and his ilk.

    The bottom line is that isolation of this community has led them to believe that they do not have to adhere to any of the secular world laws and all they have to do is stall and stall and throw more lawyers at it and eventually the secular world gets battle fatigue and gives up – which re-enforces their strategy, like a child having a temper tantrum – you know what you should do which is leave them in the room or tantrum corner and not give in but if the child is very very stubborn (like my son) he will just come out at the end of the 3 hour time out and start right away at the same behavior to prove the point and then you give up and he learns to keep it up.

  102. Anybody known if Judge Conn wears a white hat or if he has been in the area so long it is business as usual?

  103. Walton – I have so much respect for Marci Hamilton. She’s smart and she really gets this issue.

    I read a Q&A on one of her blogs once (sorry can’t remember which one) where she was answering a question about the rates of abuse in polygamy vs. monogamy. Someone was asking how she could blame polygamy for sexual abuse when rates in our own society are so high (something like 25-30% when you include the unreported incidents). She gave the right answer about polygamy being inherently abusive, but I wish she would have pointed out the per capita issue when she gave the percentage rates.

    In Janet Bennions 1999 study of sexual abuse among polygamists in Utah, she compared the rates with Utah’s general population. She used 320 cases of incest reported to therapists in Utah for her study. She found 120 were polygamists. In 1999 polygamists were FAR less likely to reach out for help than mainstream. Still, almost 40% of the cases she studied in a population of 2,100,000 came from a population of about 20,000. I’m not good at math, but that seems like a lot to me.

    Ms. Hamilton is a force to be reckoned with and I hope she stays on this for a long time. I would love to see her take over Safety Net. The people running it now are working for the polygamists, not the state.

  104. Was not impressed with Judge Conn when he handled warren’s AZ charges. He let warren’s attorney Picaretta sp? run amuck questioning and harrassing prosecution witnesses.

  105. I’m not impressed with Judge Conn either, but I think it was Arizona’s laws that allowed Pic the Prick to run amuck through the witnesses.

  106. Anon@4:31 PM I checked out both of those blogs and will read more of them later.

    I did however spend 30-40 min. on Moroni’s blog reading.
    I thought I might have some questions that I could ask him about Polygamy but really the guy has such a way of writing about their life that I find he might have answered any questions I have. It is his story about his life as he sees it and yet the women he lives with are in a way telling their story via him.

    and so are the kids. little by little on the day to day events the kids stories unfold.

    I am still very much against Polygamy and day after day I find stories that confirm that Polygamy should never be made legal or decriminalized.

  107. Judge Stephen Conn should have hung his robe up long ago. He went off on some BS story comparing the different rituals with different religions. I think he brought up “communion” as one example and the FLDS have polygamy. Something like that.

    I know I was so dang angry with him and the stupid comment he made that I was fit to be tied. It made no sense what so ever.

    I will try to find it. Brooke wrote about it on her blog. I think it was titled when the shouting is over.

    I’ll stop back later.

  108. I was wrong about the title of the post Brooke made. It is titled Not a True Believer and posted Aug. 4, 2006

    Still gets me worked up. Grrrr

  109. If you can get those sheeple to change their ways & their kids upbringing ” good luck ” It would a long uphill climb to change those sheeple, if you can, more power to you, of course only if you can” good luck” …… Comp-anon

  110. Anybody known if Judge Conn wears a white hat or if he has been in the area so long it is business as usual?

    hellohellogoodbye said this on August 23, 2011 at 6:40 PM

    I followed that case pretty closely. I agree with others that he let Pic run amok.

  111. Warren’s been moved to Palestine, Texas. Wonder if Naomi will be there soon.

  112. juliekan, I think Arizona law allows the attorneys to legally harass and badger witnesses. Picaretta took advantage of this and attempted to snoop into everything he legally could, including personal finances, etc of the witnesses. It ended up running off many of the State’s witnesses due to his harassment. But, until this loophole is fixed, justice in Arizona is compromised because obnoxious defense attorneys have free rein to attack their client’s witnesses.

  113. From Purgatory to Palestine.

    Works for me.

  114. This should be Warren’s new name:
    Texas inmate No. 01726705

    It’s appropriate, considering how often women’s names are replaced with numbers in polygyny i.e. “and I’m number 7, hehehe”.

  115. I think the complaining witnesses would have stuck out Pic’s abuse except for the fact that Warren had already served more time in Arizona than he could have received as a sentence. Pic drew the proceeding out so long that Warren was in Kingman jail for 26 months and the most he could be sentenced to was 24 months. Didn’t make sense to keep on fighting for something that wouldn’t result in any additional jail time, especially when Texas was waiting to put him in prison for life + 20.

  116. Joseph Musser’s and Leslie Broadbent’s book “Supplement to the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage” is available on scribd. The story about John Taylor’s 1886 “revelation” as related by Lorin Woolley starts on page 55.

  117. Thanks Anon.

  118. Joseph Musser’s and Leslie Broadbent’s book “Supplement to the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage” is available on scribd. The story about John Taylor’s 1886 “revelation” as related by Lorin Woolley starts on page 55.

    Anonymous said this on August 24, 2011 at 9:06 AM

    Interesting propaganda piece, but it helps explain the mindset of the polygamists in the mid-early 20th century.

    The LDS leader “Grant” that rejects Musser’s & Broadbents arguments is none other than the then LDS President Herber J Grant.

    Here’s more on Herber J Grant from viewpoint of LDS Church:

  119. Apparently from sources I have, William E. Jessop is sending some of his & relatives kids to public school, how long that lasts ?? Maybe some of WSJ’s sheeple will put their kids in public school ?? I can’t say…. Maybe some of WSJ’s sheeple will get fed up w/ WSJ, the BS he preaches & his henchmen & split off his group, the other flds groups aren’t much better, we really won’t know until & if the metal statue of WSJ is erected, if it’s put in the CCA/Hildale spot it will probably be erected at the meeting for all sheeple to see, the media will have a field day with this, Let’s wait & see( LOL) ……………… Comp-anon

  120. Anon@12:56 – I don’t know about William E. Jessop, but Willie R. Jessop has put his kids in public school.

    As for the statute of WSJ, if it’s put anywhere in Short Creek it will need a 24/7 guard because the apostates/gentiles/whatever you want to call them will bring it down.

  121. This response from the LDS President Grant in reply to the polygamists Musser’ claims is cool IMO, he calls the polygamists adulterers and tells them they belong in prison and they need to repent, page 137 & 138 of the document listed by anon 9:06.

    Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
    Heber J. Grant, President
    Salt Lake City, Utah

    November 27, 1928.

    Mr. Joseph W. Musser,
    Salt Lake City,Utah.

    Dear Sir:

    Answering your letter of November 26th.You say that you do not presume to pose as my guide or instructor, yet you do practically instruct me to sustain and uphold people that are committing adultery, and you also presume to refer to them as “the best blood and brains the Church possesses.”These people to whom you refer have no standing in the Church and never will have as long as they live, in time or in eternity, unless they repent of their misdeeds.

    Your quotations with reference to the Savior, Hannah and others, are on a par with your position of sustaining those who, if they received their just dues, would not only be excommunicated from the Church, but they would be prosecuted under the law for their immoral practices. I shall rejoice when the government officials put a few of these “best blood”, as you call them, in the county jail or the state penitentiary. Such action might put a stop to the teachings of people who are today destroying the virtue of good women who are silly enough to listen to them. Among other things, you say, “How long will such hypocrisy continue?” Let me answer by saying: “How long will men go on pretending to be members of the Church,who have been excommunicated for their immoral practices and talk about living celestial laws?

    Yours truly,

    (Sig.) HEBER J. GRANT

  122. I also heard more people in CC and Hildale are putting their kids back in school this year.

  123. comp-anon; do you think folks will get fed up and split? Are they concerned about getting kicked out of their house? Now that a few have refused to leave and have not been physically kicked out I wonder if others are getting more gutsy.

  124. Here’s another interesting read:
    Plural Marriage and Mormon Fundamentalism…/sbi/…/Dialogue_V31N02_19.pdf

  125. Dang, we could use some more LDS of Heber Grants colors right about now!

    Thanks for posting.

  126. I wouldn’t worry too much about the ” gentiles & apostates tearing down that statue if it’s erected I think most non-flds & apostates would look upon those sheeple as” IDOL WORSHIPPERS”- why not everyone else is a gentile or apostates, to them,, Really don’t they do about their statue, remember they call us apostates & etc, they’re idol worshippers if they choose to be, they have that right to worship whatever they want …………….. Comp-anon

  127. I wouldn’t worry too much about the ” gentiles & apostates tearing down that statue if it’s erected, I think most non-flds & apostates would look upon those sheeple as” IDOL WORSHIPPERS”- why not everyone else is a gentile or apostates, to them,, Really don’t care what they do about their statue, remember they call us apostates & etc, they’re idol worshippers if they choose to be, they have that right to worship whatever they want …………….. Comp-anon

  128. This was posted yesterday on blog, thought I would comment on it.

    The article talks about Warren Jeffs new home in Palestine, Texas, how he is receiving the harshest treatment possible under Texas law, only 85 other prisoners according to article are receiving the same in the Texas prison system. Protective custody AKA as solitary.

    From article: “He’ll be alone in his cell daily, not be involved in any work programs and be out of the cell only for recreation alone and to shower.”

    Also it is interesting to point out Jeff’s prophecy’s in his letter to President Obama haven’t come true like all of his predictions.

    Kinda funny that predictions of Heber Grant in letter to Musser, one of the founders of what would become the FLDS, that their best blood would end up in prison. Yes ole Warren now singing those Texas prison blues, Lordy Lordy he’s going to be singing those Texas prison blues for life.

  129. Yo… yo.. my name is Warren J, I’m 01726705…

    I’ll be doin’ far more time than most dudes alive…

    Y’all thought me just a hick, and yo, I proved it in court !

    I used a mike for all my “sessions,” yo, now THEM’S what I call sport!

    I DID “check” them “old maids”–some WERE barely thirteen!

    I says, “Self, you be slippin! Do ya know what I mean?”

    “Them twelves look mighty tasty, now I gotta get my groove on,

    If I tells em “This be God,” it’s all I need to get a move on!”

    Yo, dat “holy hanky-panky” was da ticket to my new digs,

    Man, it gets me so upset that the elevens go to new pigs…

    Sure, I know dat all you gentiles just see me as one big perv,

    But I’m countin’ on bro Lyle, he’s got all kind o’ nerve-

    I know he’ll blow cool threats ta keep them sheeple in line…

    He and me can milk some more from dem before he too does time…

  130. I started reading the book Answer them Nothing by Debra Weyermann

    I won’t say any more about it until I am done.

    I was just reading The Primer the handbook that they all put together for the Safety Net. If you look at the goals and such isn’t that what the Social Service programs already do?

    couldn’t all this be addressed one time for those already working the field? and taught in the schools for those going into social service?

    They could use that money to hire a few extra deputies for Gary Engles.

    Is anyone revamping the homeschooling programs?

  131. I was just reading The Primer the handbook that they all put together for the Safety Net. If you look at the goals and such isn’t that what the Social Service programs already do?

    walton said this on August 24, 2011 at 4:44 PM

    I read that too and was disturbed by it. Here is the link.

    Here one statement from the Forward that bothers me:

    “Bigamy is illegal in Utah, and plural marriages are prohibited in the Utah and Arizona constitutions. However, both states have decided to focus law enforcement efforts on crimes within the polygamous communities that involve child abuse, domestic violence and fraud. Laws regarding these issues will be strictly enforced.”

    This sets the tone for what follows. We will choose which laws to enforce. Since we have no direct access to most families, the only way we will know if abuse takes place is if they choose to trust us, so we need to be really careful not to offend anyone. If someone calls for help and we help them, we have done our job and earned our salaries. Yeah for us.

    So, while they might do some good – helping people who have decided they want out – there is no advocacy for any kind of structural change that would begin to take apart the culture of abuse. Even if they notice that kids are groomed from infancy to never say “no” to adult men (a message any normal mother would fight tooth and nail against!) – they won’t challenge that because it might erode the trust that might someday prompt that child to reach out for help – after enduring years of the abuse they never tried to prevent.

    I have a problem with that.

  132. Gretchen –


  133. I do think a movie deal will come from this.I think it will be big and be shown at the movies.”The Evil Prophet” was a made for TV movie and did not seem to sway public opinion of the FLDS. It would be neat to see Flora or Carolyn in the background somewhere in it.I don’t think Warren will be making any kind of “cameo” appearance anywhere though.

  134. James, what is ”The Evil Prophet” made-for-TV movie? I never heard of it.

  135. Good job gretchen on your pedo-profit rap!

  136. Jerrie, the Safety Net Committee does not actually have any money to help people. Some of their funding goes to pay 2 counselors who can counsel people, but that is pretty much all they can do to help people in or out of polygamy.

    Their other funding goes to hold seminars for social service providers to teach them cultural sensitivity toward the polygamist.

    Not that latter objective really changes victims lives for the better, doesn’t it?

  137. Warren can’t benefit from his crime, so as long as he is listed as President of the FLDS, they can’t either

  138. Safety Net started out on the right foot, but took a bad turn when Suzanne Chavira left. She was not a sympathizer. Maybe that’s why they replaced her.

  139. A little history here : William Edson Timpson/ Jessop is only half Jessop, his mom was Edson Jessop’s daughter, his dad ? A.A. (Dell) Timpson Sr. that’s true,, William decided not to be with his dad, so he joined the one man faction : L.S. Johnson, R.T. Jeffs group, he was adopted by Fred Jessop the one time bishop in CCA/ Hildale, so William Edson Jessop is really a Timpson !!!! I only know a few of the Timpson’s, most think they’re special & above the rest of us…… Maybe some who aren’t, but I don’t know them ???? Comp-anon

  140. Comp-anon, my understanding of William Edson Timpson/ Jessop’s family history is that his mother, Kathy, (who was married to Dell Timpson) went with the FLDS during the 1986 split instead of going with her husband into the formation of the Centennial Park group.

    Kathy was reassigned to Fred Jessop and that is when William Edson Timpson took the surname of Jessop.

    And I do know some CP Timpsons and they do think pretty highly of themselves – I agree with you there!

  141. Sis, Suzanne Chavira was “replaced” on the Safety Net Committee because she resigned after she got her Master’s Degree so she could become a professional counselor, instead of a committee coordinator. Suzanne wanted to move on to bigger and better things. Sadly, that is when the Safety Net Committee went to hell in a hand basket.

  142. Thanks for the additional information on William Jessop ‘s history,Anonymous, did you know Willam was a bishop in CCA/Hildale Area ? WSJ exiled him to Westcliffe ,Colorado,,,,WSJ & his HENCHMEN wanted control so William was exiled as far s WSJ could put him,,,,He’s BACK NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!! Comp-anon

  143. Here’s a report on Brian David Mitchell where Dr. Micheal Welner, where the doctor compares Mitchell to Rulon Jeffs & Ervil LeBaron.

    From report: “There is no evidence, for example, why any number of self-styled prophets, from Rulon
    Jeffs to Ervil LeBaron and many others, were not regarded as delusional even if many
    simply experienced their standing as false and undeserved. Brian Mitchell’s ideas bore
    numerous ideas advanced by other self-styled prophets inspired by Biblical and LDS
    scripture. The BIDI borrowed from many other scriptures. Little separates Brian Mitchell
    from the earlier stages of these and other claimed prophets, except for his lack of charisma
    and lack of resources at a time of his splitting from his previous church.

    So in other words IMO there is no real difference in Mitchell and Rulon Jeffs, only that Mitchell didn’t have the charisma of people like Rulon and Warren Jeffs.

  144. Was William E actually adopted or did he just assume the name?

  145. Here’s more of Dr. Welner’s report comparing Warren Jeffs to Mitchell:

    The most well known of these progeny is Warren Jeffs, son of Rulon. After Rulon Jeffs
    died, Warren ascended as the President and Prophet, Seer and Revelator of the FLDS, a
    group that numbers 10,000 members. Mr. Jeffs was arrested for his role in forcing
    underage marriages, after being listed on the FBI’s most wanted list. In January he
    renounced his role as a prophet of God. He was not diagnosed with a psychotic illness.

    The report talks about various fundie groups and independents like Mitchell and Tom Green. There are many listed in report I never heard of.

  146. It appears that almost every fundie group gets a mention in this report, here’s more, even the Allreds get a mention.:

    “Brian Mitchell, aiming to brainwash Elizabeth, operated at a disadvantage relative to other
    cults and fundamentalist sects. Unlike others, he had no separate city with full support
    resources, like Jonestown or Colorado City; no community of believers like the Allreds
    who each contribute to the love bombing, isolation, and re-education. Unlike the souls
    who voluntarily drift in to such sects under a variety of circumstances, Brian Mitchell took
    Elizabeth against her will and immediately compelled her to have sex with him.”

  147. Here’s an ABC news report on Dr Welner and his study of polygamist Mitchell, if anything IMO it shows that ole Warren and Brian are very alike, two peas in a pod.

  148. More history tomorrow, about connection between Rulon Timpson Jeffs Sr. & ( Dell ) Timpson Sr. Tomorrow ………………………………… Comp-anon

  149. PT, I think Uncle Fred Jessop “adopted” all of the children that came into his home (mostly via reassignments) but not real “legal” adoptions. I don’t think “legal” adoptions mattered; the children still took his surname. That is how it was (and still is done) in the Creek – your mother gets reassigned and your family gets a new surname, if the new priesthood head has a different surname.

  150. Comp-anon, didn’t Rulon Jeffs bring Dell Timpson into the Priesthood Council and wasn’t Dell Rulon’s uncle?

  151. A Texan, you said “The BIDI borrowed from many other scriptures.”

    Sometimes I feel so dumb when people use acronyms that I can’t figure out. This is one of those times. What does BIDI mean? Thanks.

  152. Question to anyone here familiar with the LDS “mother church’s” history. When exactly did they stop referring to the LDS president as the “President, Prophet, Seer and Revelator”. I notice that the “Prophet, Seer and Revelator” part has just disappeared from the title and am curious as to when this happened.

  153. Rulon Jeffs was Dell Timpsons nephew, Rulons middle name was Timpson, his mom was an older sister to Alma Adelbert(Dell) Timpson . Joseph Musser ordained Timpson into the council back in the forties. He assumed control of the CP group after the death of Marion Hammon.

    Interstingly enough, Both Rulon Jeffs and Timpson were alcoholics, tbehavior that caused a lot of concern in the council. Roy Johnson told them to get it under control. Rulon was involved in an auto accident in the eightys that was a result of drunk driving, but the incident was quickly covered up.
    Alma Timpson would frequently preach in Salt Lake City in the 70’s and 80’s while obviously drunk, He would rant and yell, and afterwards I remember the smell of booze on him as we all went to shake the leaders hands

  154. Yes that’s true, Anonymous,,,,,,,,,, ,Dell Timpson was Rulon’s uncle , Rulon’s mother was a sister to Dell Timpson…. I know some Timpson guys & Jeffs guys, some of them look like twin brothers , in fact I mistook some Timpson’s & Jeffs for brothers, they’re cousins to each other, they looked too much alike I had trouble telling some of them apart,,,,,,,More info tomorrow……………………………….. Comp-anon

  155. long time gone, that reminds me of a comment that a boss I had many years ago made – during the “3 Martini lunch” days. He used to say, “make sure your (afternoon) customers can smell the booze on your breath, so they know your are drunk and not just stupid.”

    My boss didn’t know that I was not a Martini drinker, but he did make a good point. Maybe it was a good thing that you smelled the booze on Timpson’s breath … or maybe not.

  156. Looking forward to comp-anon’s history lesson tomorrow. What I know is that Alma Adelbert (Dell) Timpson was Rulon Timpson Jeffs’ uncle and the brother of Rulon’s mother, Lenora. Also, Dell Timpson was the last man called to the Priesthood Council by then Priesthood President John Y. Barlow.

  157. Comp-anon, I have known some Holms and Barlows who were cousins, but I swear they looked just like twins. They weren’t even siblings; they were cousins, but they could have passed as twins. It freaked me out.

  158. Thanks for your last history lesson, Anonymous……I had forgotten some of it, fill me in on what more you know about flds history , I don’t know everything ? Don’t claim to ……………………………….. comp-anon

  159. Lee Iacoca, the CEO of Dodge.Chrysler, in his autobiography said that he asked his drinking salesmen and Senior managers to, please, drink gin at lunch because everyone could smell it in the afternoon and deduce that they really weren’t as stupid as they sounded. I remember when his autobiography, named “Iacoca”, came out was when Vice-President Joe Biden’s supposed autobiography was revealed to have been ghost-authored. Johnny Carson quipped on his late night show that Biden was going to rename his now scandaled autobiography and call it “Iacoca”.

  160. My point about William E. is that if his legal name isn’t Jessop then he doesn’t need to be signing Jessop on a legal document. He needs to sign his name as it is legally which would be William E. Timpson if he wasn’t legally adopted or didn’t legally change his name.

  161. Darn, it is confusing with the few choices of the FLDS names.

  162. I finished the book Answer them Nothing by Debra Weyermann

    It answered some questions I had. and it raised some questions.

    I had 5 moments that I said “holy crap” out loud.

    I don’t want to give anything away but I sure would like to talk about it. Maybe after it has been out for awhile would be a good time. ?

  163. Legal names or not? Proud Texan that is one of the things I brought up about the Browns.

    How can they be using the different names on documents? leases/bankruptcy/credit cards/birth records/ welfare programs/drivers license and the many other things.

  164. Maybe Willie E’s last name legally is Jessop. Comp-anon said Willie’s mother, Kathy, was the daughter of Edson Jessop. Kathy “married” Alma Timpson, but maybe she was still legally named Kathy Jessop instead of Kathy Timpson. She births baby William E. and he is known as Willam E. Jessop (keeping his mother’s surname). Maybe all along he has been William E. Jessop, but folks referred to him as Timpson Jessop because his father was a Timpson and that helped them keep his lineage straight after Kathy and kids were reassigned to Fred Jessop.

  165. Why is there a problem in dictating your autobiography to someone who can actually write well? Do you really think most famous people do the writing themselves – like the young Arnold Schwartzenegger? I don’t get it. There’s a fine line between being really involved with an editor and having someone else write your autobiography. So why is there scandal? Maybe if you don’t credit them?

  166. I had heard somewhere that if you use a name for ?? years that it can become your legal name. I looked it up and found this on :

    2. Usage vs. Order of Name Change
    In most states, you may change your name by usage. This is accomplished by consistently using the new name in all aspects of your personal, social, and business life, to the point where it in fact becomes the name you are known by when dealing with others. This is legally valid and does not involve any costs (minors and prison inmates are generally exceptions to this rule).

    I still don’t understand how that would work as far as social security etc… but it’s a starting point.

  167. Found this on :

    “The problems arise when it comes to government and financial agencies. In current times when identity theft, credit card fraud, and even the fear of terrorist spies are rampant, many (my note – it doesn’t say all) financial and government agencies may require legal court documents to prove your identity. Furthermore, there are certain forms of identification, such as a social security card, birth certificate card, and passports, which absolutely will require legal name change documents.”

    So maybe since the communities and businesses they deal with know them it hasn’t been an issue. But I’m still confused about how they can get welfare or any type of federal assistance unless they use the name on their birth certificate or soc. sec. card for that.

  168. “Warren Jeffs moved :
    BiB said this on August 23, 2011 at 4:25 PM ”

    In part, the article says:

    …Warren Jeffs will be housed in a solitary cell for his own protection,” Texas prison officials said Tuesday.

    Inmates with “credible threats” against them are placed in solo protective custody, and, unlike someone in solitary, those in protective custody can have visitors and use the phone,” Clark said.

    Jeffs is allowed to have contact visits, which are those not separated by a glass wall…

    Crap! That that last sentence means Warren’s bad-boy little brother, Lyle, will finally get “contact” visitation privileges, and we know what THAT means!

  169. A little bit more history, some may already know …….. Hammon’s & Timpson’s in CPark are related thru inter-marriage with with each others families , John Timpson’s their profit there & he has sheeple too !!!!!!
    Many Barlow’s, Jessop’s & Johnson;s are related thru same means & many are sheeple to WSJ & HENCHMEN,,,, Jeffs family some are, the ones I know, maybe I’m not sure about that …… Some Jeffs brothers have been exiled by WSJ in the recent past,, & some have challenged WSJ about being exiled or losing family to WSJ’s HENCHMEN, Wallace Jeffs recently filed a lawsuit against WSJ, HENCHMEN,etc, there’s at least 5 suits & counts against them……. So WSJ has many enemies, & doesn’t have much going for him & doesn’t have my sympathy …………………………..Comp-anon

  170. legal names are under state law, so what is legal varies. There is nothing illegal about using a false or pseudo name unless you do so to commit fraud or to evade punishment for a crime. For instance, stage personalities use false names all the time, they even open bank accounts as “Cher” or what ever.

  171. Changing from your married name to maiden name is easy even without having it legally changed through a divorce proceeding. You file with the IRS and SS saying that all of these names (married and maiden) are the same person and provide various documentation. There’s a form for that to make sure you don’t lose benefits or tax due as your marital status changes.

  172. @ Anon: 11:15pm 8-24-2011.

    From the sustaing of church offices ar October 2010 General Conference of the LDS mainstream church. President Momson was sustained as prophet, seer, revelator and President of the church.

    “It is proposed that we sustain Thomas Spencer Monson as prophet, seer, and revelator and President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints; Henry Bennion Eyring as First Counselor in the First Presidency; and Dieter Friedrich Uchtdorf as Second Counselor in the First Presidency.

    Those in favor may manifest it.

    Those opposed, if any, may manifest it.

    It is proposed that we sustain Boyd Kenneth Packer as President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and the following as members of that quorum: Boyd K. Packer, L. Tom Perry, Russell M. Nelson, Dallin H. Oaks, M. Russell Ballard, Richard G. Scott, Robert D. Hales, Jeffrey R. Holland, David A. Bednar, Quentin L. Cook, D. Todd Christofferson, and Neil L. Andersen.

    Those in favor, please manifest it.

    Any opposed may so indicate.

    It is proposed that we sustain the counselors in the First Presidency and the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators.”

  173. I don’t know ? I’m thinking William E may have been ashamed of his dad’s name, he shouldn’t have been, it’s his name & his dad’s name,not a bad name it’s his name: Timpson ……………….The Hitler family- older siblings to Adolf , their descendants changed their name, why? Because the name is synonymous with mass murder & death , so I think it’s okay to change your if it’s a notorious one !!!!!! Comp-anon

  174. They changed the name of Shortcreek to Hildale and Colorado city to offset bad publicity.

    Maybe everyone in town should get new last names:




  175. I liked the article on Carolyn Jessop on the paper.

    Read her books, this was such a wonderful footnote.

    She left when she saw disturbing changes – what got her were the women on Larry King denying knowing of child marriages when their own children were molested by this gang, and then their keep sweet voices mimicking Warren’s, they werent anything like their real voices.

    Sheeples ba baaaaa! Good for Carolyn, she got out!

    Too bad for the others.

  176. There already are some families here with the last name of Black………That’s not mine, No there’s some here with unusual last names…………….I’m not related to the Barlow’s or the Johnson’s , I have some relatives (cousins) married to the Jessop’s though ………… Comp-anon

  177. chemist, thanks for the info on the “prophets, seers, and revelators”. I thought it was a thing of the past because I don’t see it in the media anymore. They used to print that title, but not recently. Now I know it’s still in effect.

  178. The Evil Prophet was the story of Ervil Lebaron.


    The site is listed as Utah State history

    Here is a caption that is found attatched to the photos

    Polygamy — Arizona — Colorado City — History; Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Fundamentalists); Mormons and Mormonism in Arizona; Police-community relations

  180. The other night when I was digging around for info about CPark/FLDS etc I found that link to John W Timpson and then the side tab that linked it all back to Latter Day Saint Movement.

    which of course links up with the FAIR group.

    and then led to this:

    If the LDS Church is wondering what may be causing some of the decline of new fish to the fish tank- imo this is part of the reason.

    Add to that all the deception played by many.

    Now, before any one starts ooohing and ahhhing, I want to say that not everyone who belongs to the LDS Church is like this nor do things that are shady. I am trying to say that there are some really good people who haven’t a clue as to the extent of crap that is pulled by some of those in position of the LDS Church.., Even President/Prophet Hinckely didn’t know about all of it. But he did know about some of it.

    I was really lucky to have made contact with some one over at Trib Talk- I won’t give his name but he never ever once called anyone anti- anything. He answered soo many of my questions as well as the many others that had questions about the LDS.

    imo just as his ancestors walked the trails across the open prairies because they had faith in something…. this man formed a trail of his own sharing in his own way the faith that he holds dearly.

    I am not anti Mormon- I am anti- BS and this Mr. Berman is full of it and imo so are many of his playmates.

  181. I have a question. Did Isaac Wyler have his family taken away?

  182. No Walton, when Isaac was kicked out in January 2004, his family stuck by him and they left the group (although not the community) with him. His wife later left Isaac and has their children. I don’t know why Debra Weyermann wrote that in her book. She is wrong about that matter.

  183. Green



    Brown, perhaps, but Green and Black have their own negative connotations when it comes to illegal sexual conduct with minors.

  184. thanks anon. I really like Isaac and it saddens me all the people that have been hurt.


    It was one of those things that brought tears to my eyes. Together or not I hope that someday that his children will see to what extent their father went thru to make their lives better.

  185. walton, I like Isaac, too and I think he can see his children pretty much anytime he wants to.

  186. A Texan, you said “The BIDI borrowed from many other scriptures.”

    Sometimes I feel so dumb when people use acronyms that I can’t figure out. This is one of those times. What does BIDI mean? Thanks.

    Anonymous said this on August 24, 2011 at 11:08 PM

    Sorry to take so long to answer, the term “BIDI” refers to Brain David Mitchell’s book of doctrine which reads somewhat like some of the dictations of Warren Jeffs & the writings of Musser & Broadbent.

    Read Dr. Welner’s report, especially the last part that talks about polygamist beliefs and Mitchell’s behavior not unlike those of the Jeffs, LeBaron, Allreds etc.

  187. And here’s the second part of Brian David Mitchell’s writings.

    Now this like Warrens letter to President Obama, this threatens the world with destruction if Mitchell isn’t released from prison. The dictation was written by Mitchell while in prison, and was used as a court exhibit.

    I have read enough of Warren Jeffs dictations which makes it somewhat easier to understand Mitchell’s rambling text.

  188. Here’s a little easier to read version of Mitchell’s dictations:

    Compare to Warren Jeffs writings:

  189. Here’s something else of interest, on page 72 of Dr. Welner’s report the following is mentioned:

    Brian continued to communicate what he termed revelation about plural marriage, that
    Wanda “must heed and obey the law of celestial marriage or suffer eternal consequences.”
    Wanda, ultimately, encouraged him to fulfill this calling. He added, recalled Wanda, “You
    are given the law of Sarah and Rachel for Immanuel will lust after his wives.”

    Remember the recordings of Warren Jeffs trial where he instructed his “wives” about the law of Sarah?

    “During three-hours of training, about half of which was played for jurors, Jeffs makes biblical references to what he calls the “Law of Sarah” and the taking of multiple wives. He tells the wives their duties as plural wives are a commandment of God and a requirement of the everlasting covenant with the Lord, saying if they reject this that they will be banished from heaven.”

  190. “The Hitler family- older siblings to Adolf , their descendants changed their name, why? Because the name is synonymous with mass murder & death , so I think it’s okay to change your if it’s a notorious one !!!!!! Comp-anon”

    Correct Comp – Anon, I am friends with Hitler’s nephews sons, and the family changed their name to Houston. They are two of the nicest men you would ever want to meet.

  191. Sorry, the above anon was me.

  192. A Texan, thanks for your clarification on the BIDI thing. Now I understand that you were referring to Brian Mitchel’s “Book of Immanuel David Isaiah.” If I recall, he sometimes went by the pseudonym Emmanuel, instead of Immanuel. So he had BEDIs and BIDI’s? Dual personality there – LOL?

    Anyway, you have way more stamina than I do to read his gibberish. A small dose of Warren’s BS is enough for me!

    You should use the handle “Brave Texan” instead of “A Texan” if you are reading both of these polygamous pedophile prophets’ ramblings.

  193. Do state prisons check into criminal backgrounds before allowing them to be visiting inmates?

  194. Do state prisons check into criminal backgrounds before allowing them to be visiting inmates?

    Anonymous said this on August 25, 2011 at 10:34 PM

    I don’t know, but one would hope so!

  195. I’m pretty sure they do. One day while I was at the Tom Green County jail waiting to see an inmate they called a lady to the front. She had gone through the registration procedure and I guess they did some checking in the back because they arrested her.

    I’ve only ever visited a state prison 1 time. I know your name has to be on the list for at least 10 days before you can visit I’m assuming that this gives them time to check things out. The information on the list has to be exactly as it appears on your drivers license. The only things that you can take inside the visiting room is a bag of not more than $25 in change for the vending machine. They keep your drivers license and keys until you leave. The change has to be in a clear baggie.

  196. When is the next trial and where ?

  197. Dear Brother Lyle:

    More family pictures taken on that scary ranch and getaway car and baptismal booty font

  198. I once read a authoriatative article on Adolf Hitler’s lineage and the author stated that Hitler’s grand father was illeterate and had spelled the surname as either Hitler or Hidler. His investigation was not definitive but lead to his belief that the true family name, three generations hence, had been Heidler and not Hitler,

  199. Dear Brother Lyle:
    More family pictures taken on that scary ranch and getaway car and baptismal booty font
    Stamp said this on August 26, 2011 at 7:47 AM

    Still curious of who the photographer is that took all these photos.

  200. The police took the bulk of the evidence photo’s but you are probably wondering who took the snaps of Warren with his child brides?

    Why, the same people who were denying it ever happened, thats who!

  201. I’ve seen some of the photos from theWSJ / sltrib article !!!! He will probably try to appeal his conviction higher up the scale,I hope it’s thrown out of court !!!!! If it goes before the U.S. Supreme Court it probably will be thrown out …. my source tells me WSJ is up for parole in 40 years, he’s 55 now, he will 95 when his parole comes around, a feeble old man then, keep him in prison beyond that time ? Why not.he shouldn’t be let out to the at all, now or 40 years or more from now, keep the bum/pervert in prison for all his life !!!!!!!!!!! Comp-anon

  202. EMACK APPEAL Denied!, Looks like Warren & crew will be serving out their sentences. Eldorado Success newspaper reports on it’s website:

  203. 3rd Court of Appeals ruled the Search Warrants are valid and they denied Emack’s appeals on both his bigamy and sexual assault convictions.

  204. Yay! :Kermit Arms:

  205. Correct spelling is sort of a modern fixation. My mother’s maiden name is Fraser, but various close relatives spell it all sorts of ways. One uncle who enlisted in the Air Force in WWII had it changed to Frazier by the military and was unable to fix it. He finally gave up and changed it legally to match his paycheck.

  206. Great news on the search warrants being upheld.That should take some of the wind out of the flds apologist’s sails. Thanks for the report on it.

  207. Thanks for the great news, PT! No re-trials based on invalid search & seizure!!!!!

  208. Here’s a report from San Angelo paper:

    Really good news! Means any appeals from Warren Jeffs and his other henchmen won’t fly! Any appeals from now on out are just money makers for the appeals lawyers. You know those lawyers gotta pay the tuition for their kids at A&M and UT.

  209. Here’s the court ruling:

  210. Appeals from here on out will be strictly on the merits of the trial, nothing else.

  211. FLDS_Texas admin: Suggest a new string with appeal court ruling and comments on it.


    The opinion from the Court of Appeals website.

  213. Wakka wakka

    Ho ho

    the flds defense

    Sure does BLOW

  214. Here’s a big laugh at all those people who said anyone besides Judge Barbara would throw out those warrants!

  215. Texas is a whole nother country.

    Not a party place for Pligs.

    Wouldnt a true Prophet see that?

  216. Proud Texan, can you explain that further, about future appeals. The article in the Salt Lake Tribune makes it sound like they are going to continue to appeal the search warrants.

  217. Betty

    Yep that ruling just took them down a few notches. Read most of the ruling –

    The flds better start making lots of bread, because they are nothing but toast…

  218. I think I just heard Medvecky’s head bounce off the ceiling.

  219. my salute to those losing the appeal:

    (I wouldn’t want be like you!)

  220. Each person is still entitled to appeal it, but I would doubt the court will entertain them at this moment. Raymond’s appeal has a hearing scheduled in October. It’s oral arguments so if I were the appellate attorney I’d make dang sure I had some stuff from the trial to argue and weren’t planning on using the whole time to argue the search warrant.

    Lehi’s appeal is now a moot point since it is identical to Emack’s.

    Leroy on the other hand is still so busy arguing that he is indigent that he hasn’t even bothered with his sexual assault appeal.

    Keate had oral arguments denied. That means his will be submitted solely by briefs.

    Not sure about how far along Abram and Dutson’s cases are. As far as I know Warren hasn’t even hired a new attorney, much less filed a Motion for New Trial or Notice of Appeal.

  221. The Eldorado Success newspaper also has article that there is a new FLDS controlled business called “Phaze-Tex” it combines more than 14 FLDS business in Texas, bet you all didn’t know that there were 14 of them.

    Wonder what the name phaze-tex means, does it mean they are phasing out their Texas operations, or the first phase some new scheme to raise money for that felonious profit Warren Jeffs appeals?

    Or perhaps the first phase of raising money for their Warren Jeffs statue idol!

  222. Phaze out of reality?

    Phaze away the truth?

    Phaze two, get arrested big time?

    Phaze three rapture?

    Say, those pictures of the Temple being used as conduit for crime, I would think it would be confiscated like a vehicle trasnporting drugs.

  223. So the mysterious Spiritual Unity child appears in the Court of Appeals opinion –

    On April 6, 2008, Tina Martinez advised Affiant that, between this date and April 4, 2008, Tina Martinez interviewed a female who identified herself as Janet Jeffs Jessop with a date of birth of 9/16/1988 who advised Tina Martinez that she has a daughter named Diana Ziana Jessop who was
    born 8/19/2005 and she has another daughter named Spiritual Unity Jessop who was born 8/12/2004.

  224. Good to receive comnfirmation that there was a child named Spiritual Unity. I had truly thought that name was a hoax story and that no one would name a child that. Guess I was wrong.

  225. Spiritual Unity? Kinda reminisent of the old days when people were really struggling to survive and gave their daughters names like:

    All the things they probably felt were lacking in their lives.

  226. Does anyone know what happened to Michael Emack’s other family(ies)? I was reading his trial thread on this blog and it sounded like he left them in C.C. Were they not worthy to come to Texas with him?

    It also appears that he has a history of marrying teenage girls. According to his marriage certificate, his legal wife was 16 when they got married. He was 24. Does he have any other wives besides his legal wife and the girl he was arrested for ‘marrying’?

  227. Warren probably names his wives




  228. This has probably already been posted, if so my apologies but photo 56 at link
    Isaac looks like he could be on some horror show movie, like Chain Saw Massacre, or Halloween, Freddie Kruger, etc………
    That photo gives me the chills! LOL!

  229. Yes Sis, Emack has 3 wives besides his teenage bride. 2 of his other brides are Hammons and 1 is a Barlow. The Hammons are full sisters. All of those families were left in the Crick.

    As for Spiritual Unity, at this point I think Janet was confused. The day she supposedly had SpitU was the day she married Raymond. I am still digging, trying to find some glimmer of existence of ole SpitU. I’m pretty sure the AG’s office didn’t find her otherwise Ernie would have joined his brother in jail.

  230. Anonamous – naming his wives was Guy Musser’s thing. I heard when he took new wives he only allowed them to bring the clothes on their backs and he made them change their names. Probably to solidify the fact they were now his property.

    PT- Omg! I was wondering what this child’s nickname could possibly be. You nailed one.

  231. I’ll bet those women are glad they were kept in the dark. It sounds like some of Leroy Jessop’s wives were too, although I couldn’t really gather from his letters which ones were with him in Texas and which ones were in CC. I wonder what their reactions are to all this.

    Leroy’s love letters to Warren (every 10-30 days) are proof positive that these people have gone from brainwashed to brainbleached. I’ll bet if someone published a book of the letters to Warren from his followers, the letters would be identical except for the names. Sad.

  232. If there are any feminists who are hestitant to take a stand on this issue, they should read Leroy Jessop’s letters. He makes it very clear that they start forcing the girls (all children for that matter) to be completely submissive from day one. God forbid these girls start developing some of their “own ideas”.

  233. They might end up like me someday, a woman free to make her own decisions in life.

  234. Janet Jeffs Jessop with a date of birth of 9/16/1988 who advised Tina Martinez that she has a daughter named Diana Ziana Jessop who was
    born 8/19/2005 and she has another daughter named Spiritual Unity Jessop who was born 8/12/2004.

    The daughter Diana Ziana Jessop is really named Zionna Joy Jessop. That was brought out in the trial of Raymond Merril Jessop and then again during the punishment phase of Warren Jeffs trial.

  235. The post about Janet Jeffs Jessop was by me. I cleared my cookies and it cleared my name. Didn’t think to check

  236. Hey one of mine was Waitstill but she died before they headed to Deseret.

  237. Betty said:

    “Since they are very much about consent, honesty and defining your own relationships, the idea that young people are told they have no choice but to follow a particular marriage structure or be damned is one they find very evil.”

    I think we might know some “medieval re-creationists” in common.

    None of my alternative lifestyle friends and family say much differently. The majority reaction is while it is a given that children cannot give consent, there is even more horror to be found in the brainwashing of adults who are caring for those children.

    And its the brainwashing, isolation and the potential powder keg that worries me. I was in the 8th grade, living in the Bay Area when Jim Jones went from crazy jungle dwelling leader of a commune to the suicidal leader of a cult that ended so many lives. 33 years later, people still remember their loved ones lost so needlessly.

    What is to prevent Eldorado from ending like Guyana or the Branch Davidians in Waco?

    Oh Gretchen – great rap!

  238. In WSJ’s ” journals” about life on the run from the law, he claimed he went into big city strip clubs with his women to show them ” how evil the gentile world is” Yes he showed them all right !!!!! IMO he just wanted to see strip clubs & didn’t care if his women were with him !!!!!!!! IMO, He’s not only a pedophile, he’s a sexual predator & a deviant pervert !!!!! apparently he’s to bring his sheeple down to his level !!!! ” Warren had a little lamb it’s FLEECE was white as snow & everywhere that Warren went the lamb was sure to go” Emphasis on the word FLEECE, boy have his sheeple been FLEECED !!!!!!!! Comp-anon

  239. @Comp-anon – Amen!

    @Observing – I well remember the Jim Jones mass murder and the David Koresh/Branch Davidian fiasco. I suppose that’s why I was so “tuned in” when I first heard about the FLDS. Seems there is the potential for a similar catastrophe at YFZ or in the Crick.

  240. To any of you out there : check out WSJ’s photos in front of Gateway Arch in St. Louis & photos where he, Naomi & others of his entourage look like those ” damn Apostates & Gentiles ” see him & family when they’re caught by police looking like everyone else,,,, WSJ is so full of BS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Comp-anon

  241. I don’t know if they’ll go all suicidal. Their primary goal is “to multiply and replenish the earth” (imo, it’s to build a massive rightous army). Mass suicide seems counter intuitive to that goal, but who knows what’s ahead for them. If they feel pinned against a wall, they may see it as the only way out.

  242. There was going to be a public library in CCA/Hildale,but WSJ’s HENCHMEN got some of those books BURNED ,,,,, Some were medical books’ if they had tried that at Mohave Community College there, the county police would have arrested them & jailed them,,,,SOUND FAMILIAR ???? if that metal statue of WSJ is erected I can almost hear his sheeple say : Seeg Heil , Seeg Heil, & worship him like a Hitler , you may see & hear of a lot more book burnings !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Comp-anon

  243. @Sis — I agree that mass suicide is not FLDS style. But a Branch Davidian-style standoff with the government, that I could see.

  244. Comp-anon, you have Warren pegged. Kudos to you! And another AMEN!

  245. To all of the posters living on the East Coast – I hope you are OK. All I can say is good luck riding the storm out. I look forward to seeing you posting on here ASAP so that I know you are OK.

    If I was Stamp, I would embed the REO Speedwagon song “Ridin’ the Storm Out,” but I don’t know how to do that.

    Good luck gang; I’m thinking about you all.


    Op Ed piece in the Standard Times for tomorrow.

  247. Dang nabbit, where is Stamp when I need him?

    Final attempt for me.

  248. Admin, I apologize. I am a real doofus at embedding YouTube videos on this blog. Somehow I managed to embed the original version of this song- which I wanted to do – but don’t ask me how I did it! I also wanted to embed the later – more mellow – acoustical guitar version of this REO song, but failed at that. I thought it would be nice to have both versions of this fabulous song. The URL is Can you please embed that for our East Coast friends and remove my prior failed attempts postings – PLEASE.

    Doofus Anon

  249. PT, it is always refreshing and inspiring to read what the Texans have to say about the FLDS polygamous group. Thanks for the link to tomorrow’s Op Ed piece in the San Angelo Standard Times. Texas gets it … Utah and Arizona don’t.

  250. Great op piece by Standard Times.

  251. I agree, it’s a great article. I have a question on the schooling though. When Oprah visited YFZ, I saw the kids in an actual classroom being taught by an actual teacher (Tammy Jessop). I also noticed Viginia Samuels was at YFZ – she is a teacher too. Are these kids being home schooled or schooled privately? In reality it makes no difference when it comes to reporting abuse because none of those teachers would turn in an abuser, but I’m curious if their type of schooling is considered home schoo or private school.

    They definitely need to check the curriculum and make sure these kids are getting something besides Book of Mormon lessons.

  252. Please come and comment!

  253. Not sure who Virginia Samuels is Sis, but Samuels isn’t a name that was found on the ranch. If the school is considered a “private” school, there are rules that have to be followed. I hadn’t thought about that. There is a law that every person under 16 has to attend school, it’s called mandatory compulsory education.

  254. If & when anything in CCA/ Hildale , happens would be a major miracle, if a statue of WSJ is erected, sheeple get angry, & quit FLDS , MIGHT be a more open town !!!! I stress the the word MIGHT, who knows what can happen here ? I know 1 thing if it happens, could sure use a REAL GROCERY STORE !!!! ( this one’s not open on Sunday’s ) , a regional hospital, instead of going to St. George, Utah for medical help, roads here are atrocious, some are paved, very few, in fact, I believe there’s a lot of corruption, bribery, here so officials can lie in their teeth here, about all things that’s crooked about these towns,, LIARS !! LIARS !! LIARS !! ALL OFFICIALS HERE, Needs to be a more open town !!!! Comp-anon

  255. PT: I believe Virginia Samuels is actually Virginia Roundy, Sam Roundy’s wife. She taught English classes in the Colorado City public school before the FLDS pulled their kids out. after that then she taught in the “Priesthood Schools”

  256. ThanksYehaaa. The last name of Samuels threw me.

  257. When I was in school we called her “Mrs. Samuels”. I know a lot women went by their maiden names after the ’53 raid, maybe such is the case with her.

  258. Sis, is it possible that you called her “Mrs. Samuels” because she was married to “Mr. Samuel” (Sam) Roundy? Or am I totally off base and her surname was indeed Samuels?

  259. Maiden name wasn’t Samuels, it was Jessop. She’s a full sister to dead-beat dad Merril Jessop. She has a full sister, Lois Jessop who was also married to Sam Roundy and there was a 3rd Mrs. Sam Roundy, Shirley Day.

  260. To all of the posters living on the East Coast – I hope you are OK. All I can say is good luck riding the storm out. I look forward to seeing you posting on here ASAP so that I know you are OK.
    If I was Stamp, I would embed the REO Speedwagon song “Ridin’ the Storm Out,” but I don’t know how to do that.
    Good luck gang; I’m thinking about you all.
    Anonymous said this on August 27, 2011 at 10:50 PM

    thanks Anonymous, East Coast Watergirl is fine. Just spent the weekend thinking of all the wild horses that live on the outer banks of NC. Hope they made it ok.

  261. Mike Watkiss reporting that his sources are saying Warren may have been hospitalized last night.

    Developing story…

  262. Headbanging or intravenous feeding due to fasting?

    Place your bets.

  263. “When I was in school we called her “Mrs. Samuels”. I know a lot women went by their maiden names after the ’53 raid, maybe such is the case with her.”

    Her maiden name is Jessop, but the “Samuels” is probably along the line you’re thinking as in “Samuel’s wife.”

    The “old school” name game still takes place, although I haven’t seen a great number of examples in the recent years.

    One of Wendell Nielsen’s wives apparently gave Texas CPS her last name as Hill, going by how she showed up in an early public document from those events.

    In later documents from the same event, her last name appears as Johnson due to her mother’s reassignment some time after her father died.

    She is one of Guy Hill Musser’s children, born in 1959.

  264. Dehydration due to fasting is what I’ve heard.


  266. Hmmm, I wonder what is going on at the creek? Someone should have given Isaac a camera and a computer. He could keep us up to date.

    The whole time Warren was in county jail there wasn’t a problem. And now he’s “not feeling well” so they ship him off to a hospital?


  267. Nothing new, then.

    This is one of the reasons to keep the perv in isolation.

    Watch him like a hawk.

  268. On the upside, maybe he’ll also provide a repeat of the “I am not the prophet” fiasco.

    The faithful should be so lucky.

  269. Does anyone know if Loretta Jane Barlow had child/ren? There’s a picture somewhere in the depths of the Mormon Hair website of a picture of her holding a baby. Also, I wonder what happened to Janet Jeffs’ daughter Spiritual Unity who, according to the search warrant, was born on the day she married Raymond.

  270. So what’s the difference whether you call it a hunger strike or a fast?

  271. There are numerous pictures that indicate Loretta Jane had a child, but one was not found at the ranch.

    As for Spiritual Unity, no clue. We might never know. I know in the photo essay that Stephanie Sinclair did the only child with Janet was Zionna. If SpitU does exist then Ernie better hope they never get DNA from her or he will get his own Cell-O-Steel kingdom.

  272. N.C. flooding following the hurricane is a big problem. Hubby heading to the beach to check and see if we still have property above water. Power just restored to part of the island. The wild horses nearby concern us, too.
    Hard to watch the news helpless until power is restored and the bridges are open. Thanks for the kind thoughts.

  273. Warren has other medical issues that were compounded by his hunger strike.

    In Critical condition.

    He says its a “FAST” but I think he wants out FAST.

    That Cell o Steel Kingdom isnt what he was bargaining for when he rode off on his red Escalade Chariot.

  274. “So what’s the difference whether you call it a hunger strike or a fast?”


    And that is why it comes down to another IV, another day and another drama.

    To be fair, though, Warren called for fasting a lot even when he was not incarcerated.

    For the faithful to fast, that is.

    Who knows if those were just more instances of his “do as I say, not as I do” edicts.

    No doubt God directed Warren to do this so he can bring down upon the wicked:

    a. pestilence

    b. overflowing scourge

    c. desolating sickness

    d. other whirlwind judgments

    e. all of the above

  275. His actions got him out of Prison – but OOOPS the road from there has three forks – hospitalization while in critical condition, death, orrrrrrr

    BACK to Prison.

    His life choices are now so limited!

  276. So in the past 5 years he has been in EIGHT jails and prisons in FOUR states, and been hospitalized THREE times.

    He could write a book.

    Oh, wait – he already did – thats why he is now on “Satan’s Tour”.

  277. well he’s now in a medically induced coma…wonder if he was back to banging his head against the wall and overdid it?

  278. Does anyone have confirmation of the coma?

  279. Guess Jeffs wanted to get the message out, in case people missed it the first time

    – news of his hospitalization is hitting all the airwaves now and will give the public who were formerly ignorant on whats happened – a second look.

  280. Indeed

    He may not survive. He may get out of prison early after all.

  281. Seriously. He better not die. This could be really bad. Martyrdom and all that crap. Or “lifted up” having completed the ultimate sacrifice.

  282. Or dropping to he’ll to commune with Lucifer.

  283. Not eating is ok for a few weeks, but, no water for 3 days is a problem. Hope they are filling him full of fluid. He needs to

    I learned at a wilderness medical class – survival by 3’s:
    You will die if you go without:
    1. air in 3 minutes.
    2. heat in 3 hours (hypothermia).
    3. water in 3 days.
    4. food in 3 weeks.

  284. sorry didn’t finish my thought above.

    He needs to serve his sentence and not take the gutless way out.

  285. Ah, yes, PT!

  286. Appears ole Warren wants to go to this place in Huntsville, Texas-the prison cemetery.

    From the Byrd unit prison to the Capt Joe Byrd Cemetery for Texas prison inmates, It’s also known as Peckerwood Cemetery, a most appropriate name for Jeffs final resting place.

  287. TexasTwist said:”Her maiden name is Jessop, but the “Samuels” is probably along the line you’re thinking as in “Samuel’s wife.”
    That was the other conclusion I started to draw, but I recoiled. I couldn’t think of anyone named Samuels anywhere within hundreds of miles, but I would rather have believed she was brought across state lines or national borders, than to believe she was Mrs. Samuel’s with an apostrophe.

    Anyway, she was always nice to me and I felt a little nostalgic when I saw her on Oprah. She seemed exactly the same after all these years.

  288. I think if he were to die his body could be claimed by next of kin for burial outside the prison.

  289. A Texan, do people with 119 year sentences have to fill out the whole thing by spending some of their ‘Celestial’ time in Peckerwood? Because if they did, that would be awesome. I would hate to see his family have to take him back so soon.

  290. Google

    warren jeffs coma

    News is worldwide

  291. I wouldnt a thot that Warren got zapped before Gaddafi

    who knew? It’s still a race

  292. from the article: Heat in his cell may have contributed to Jeffs’s dehydration. Temperatures across Texas have been in the triple digits for several days and the paedophile’s cell is not air conditioned…

    life sentence with no air conditioner – a living hell you found yourself in didn’t you Warren??

  293. I wonder who the next prophet will be?


    “The Texas Department of Criminal Justice is denying a report saying polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs is in a coma.”

    Imagine that.

  295. And a smack upside the head to ABC News for going loud and wide with that bit of misinformation from their “source close to Jeffs.”


  296. “Jeffs is scheduled to be in court Sept. 9 for a pretrial on a felony bigamy charge, 51st District court staff said. It is not known whether his health will recover sufficiently for him to appear in court.”

    Detoto is still representing WSJ.

  297. WSJ’s sheeple don’t need a MARTYR !!!!!!! I hope & pray he doesn’t die, he should be punished for all the CRAP he’s to his sheeple, living with that knowledge will torture his mind & soul, we hope, coupled with his long prison sentence , so don’t pray for his demise, pray he lives with a tortured mind & soul for all his crimes & serves a LONG, LONG, LONG, PRISON SENTENCE !!!!!! What he’s done to his sheeple, a long sentence & a tortured mind & soul , would be a HELL to me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Comp-anon

  298. I hereby prophesy that the next flds “prophet” will be no more a prophet than warren j.

    However, there IS a good chance of said dude being a for-profit sheeple leader..This is because purple people eaters have been out of stock for some time.

  299. DeToto isn’t “still” representing Jeffs, if she’s representing him again. She was dismissed as his attorney along with Walpole and Silverman about an hour after Warren was sentenced. They brought Warren back to court and he said that he wanted them dismissed and that they had informed him of the deadlines involving an appeal. At that point the Judge dismissed the 3 of them.

    So if DeToto says she’s representing Warren then she was stupid enough to sign on again.

  300. And I, O verily, hereby prophesy that Warren Jeffs will indeed die.


  301. Then she’s representing him again.

    She was a cited source for ABC (and others) on this story.

    My money says she was also the unnamed “source close to Jeffs.”

  302. If she’s representing him again then she is a bigger idiot that I previously thought she was and she deserves every ounce of misery he heaps on her.

  303. I’ll bet you Carla Perron doesn’t make the mistake of stepping in front of the bar again in a Warren Jeffs matter.

  304. And these are my words to my faithful servant Texas Twist, and even so, Amen.

  305. DeToto is a liar. She was released from her representation of Warren and is not currently the attorney of record.

  306. She is quoted as referring to him as “my client” in the Associated Press article and she said he hadn’t been eating well lately.

    So true, that.

    No wives to fetch his mush and tea or to prepare his fish properly.

  307. DeToto is full of crap. She is not the attorney of record for Warren Jeffs.

  308. Calling Detoto “Warren’s Attorney” is kinda like calling any of his assorted victims a “wife”.

    There is no proof there is any real relationship there, only perhaps that they may have met once or twice.

  309. I think ole Warren’s found out that the TDC isn’t like his cushy county (club) jail. He doesn’t have the ability to continue running the FLDS like he was doing from the Tom Green jail. He can’t call and harangue people for hours on end by phone. He’s in a bad place, and it is strictly by his own actions that he is there. That said, the government is going to keep him alive if they can, because they don’t want a dead martyr or questions about how he was treated when in their custody , etc. etc.

    I think we’re seeing a resurgence of the psychosis that emerges from Warren when he doesn’t get his way. He’s going to be a pain in the ass for the TDC until he finally either gets it through his head that he’s there for life, he’s (forcibly) medicated for his own good, or he manages to kill himself while the guards’ heads are turned.

  310. I wonder if the next generation wanna-be profits [and there are a few, it seems] are standing in the wings, wringing their hands in anticipation, waiting to see if he dies so they can start the takeover. “The profit is dead…long live the new profit [Insert name of choice here…]”. The new hoodwinking of the sheeple to honor the memory of a “martyr”…. It makes my brain cells curdle at the thought.
    I hope he pulls through and lives a LONG miserable life! He deserves every moment of it. Hell will still be there…99 yrs from now!

  311. My concern is for his children. How can all that has happened ever be explained to the children, including those child brides whose personal business/torture was taped and now has been made public. I have lost contact with my friend in the FLDS. I hurt for what she and her family must be facing. Warren Jeffs is a false prophet, no doubt, but there are some lovely people in the group and I sincerely hope they find new beginnings based on truth and freedom.

  312. Mirele – There’s not a psychotic bone in Warren’s body. This is most likely a calculated attempt by a sociopath to get thrown into a psych hospital for easy time.

  313. “The state of Texas has a responsibility to maintain his health,” Piccarreta says. “And if the state of Texas is unwilling or unable to provide proper medical care for Mr. Jeffs then they are going to be legally responsible for any adverse outcome.”

    So keep him strapped down with a tube shoved in him.

    That’ll work.

  314. Pic is wrong, if they offer him food and Warren decides not to eat then it’s on him. Pic can shove it where the sun don’t shine. He doesn’t dictate what does and doesn’t happen in Texas.

  315. I like this article.

    I believe the source of the rumor is his non-attorney Emily DeToto.

  316. “The state of Texas has a responsibility to maintain his health,”…..

    And where is Mr Jeff’s responsibility to maintain his own health??? This is another lame excuse to absolve Jeff’s of any responsibility in what happens to him. Nothing is EVER his fault! Blame the victims…blame the courts, but don’t blame the guy who’s quit eating…he is a VICTIM of a bad prison system!!! ARGH!!!

    “So keep him strapped down with a tube shoved in him”…. I thoroughly agree with texastwist!

  317. I’m with you on the DeToto, PT, and about Pic.

    Also clarified (for the most part) in this evening’s news reports is that Warren did not try to kill himself, nor is he expected to die from this.

    Just about all of tonight’s major reporting on the story (so far) includes the history of goofy heath crap he’s pulled in Utah and Arizona while incarcerated.

    There are credible mentions of his “other health conditions” that are more of a concern according to an unnamed “official.”

    Anyone have a clue what that might be?

    In the meantime, news of the “gravity” of his current condition has no doubt been spread widely among the faithful (why, it’s even on the television), served up with the standard “be more fervent” admonition.

    And I vote that TDCJ puree some catfish for his liquid feed.

  318. Amen !!!!!! let him have MISERY ,be FORCE FED & have a soul wrenching LIFE SENTENCE !!!!!!!!! Sounds twisted ?? It is (LOL)

  319. So keep him strapped down with a tube shoved in him.

    That’ll work.

    texastwist said this on August 29, 2011 at 7:34 PM

    HA HA HA, twist, you’re really on a roll today.

  320. texastwist said: There are credible mentions of his “other health conditions” that are more of a concern according to an unnamed “official.”

    Anyone have a clue what that might be?


  321. Stamp is missing all of the fun! Where is he when the time is ripe for his “Up his nose with a rubber hose” joke?

  322. I think the other conditions might have to do with liver and kidney stuff from previous fasts/hunger strikes/whatever you want to call it. But this is purely a guess on my part.

  323. I am Grateful to the State Of Texas

    I am glad they have decided to help Warren Jeffs to stop living. There is no hope of redemption in this Life for him.

    Remember – anyone who reads this

    The job now is to clean up the mess that the Jeffs have wrought upon the innocent lives and the trodden down men who sacrificed their time and resources to support them. They were held at ransom of their own security and love for their families. They have been threatened more than you will ever experience. They have been lied to and used mercilessly against each other. They have been shadowed long enough.

    Lift your hearts to heaven and proclaim freedom for them.

  324. Who ?

    Who do you think pulled the trigger? Who let Nevada Law Enforcement know what he was driving, and about when to expect him? Who has stood silent waiting for six years for assistance?

    Us ! The children. The Women. The molested. The branded evil.

    It was we

  325. Anon @ 9:25 PM, I personally think you are trying to create a conspiracy that didn’t exist. Warren’s red Cadillac was pulled over by the NHP because:

    #1 it was RED. Deputy Eddie Dutchover testified that such an opulent, expensive and bright car could be a drug-runner’s car, do that first raised his suspicions. Then the paper license tag was obstructed. This further raised Deputy Dutchovers suspicions.

    Yes, maybe someone knew when Warren was leaving Henderson, but who would know his direction? Are you claiming that the NHP was on the lookout on I-15 both north and southbound directions? What if he was just going to another faithful followers house in the vicinity to hang out? What if he decided to go over the Boulder Dam and head to Palm Springs instead of getting on I-15?

    I think your “we” conspiracy is poppycock. And I think the NHP stop by Deputy Dutchover was just a lucky break!


    Warren Jeffs in an induced coma after fasting.
    Somehow I just don’t believe it.

  327. I agree with anon @ 10:13. It was just a lucky stop;

    and Rachel, don’t believe abc news. They’ve gotten bad poop from DeToto who I think is trying to make people feel sorry for him given his 3rd strike trial in a little over a month.

  328. OK, here’s how the JD story went down.

    On 8/4/11 JD was back on the stand with Warren trying to shove him under the bus. After JD was finally excused and Warren told to call his next witness he started trying to stall for time, saying that he hadn’t had time to prepare and needed more time, that his attorneys hadn’t been available to consult with him due to his incarceration.

    I think the Judge was just waiting for this line of whining because she immediately pulled out a paper that was a list of all attorney visits to Warren while he was in the Tom Green County jail.

    Here it is:
    Walpole again
    JD Roundy claiming to be an attorney (at this the entire courtroom burst out laughing)

    She went on to say that the sheriff has allowed attorney visitors to stay as late as midnight which is the time the jail is totally locked down.

  329. It wasn’t just a lucky stop.

  330. You both need to wake up. Yes I can see that you have the ability to read. But do you have any other abilities ??

    The statement remains .

  331. You both need to wake up. Yes I can see that you have the ability to read. But do you have any other abilities ??

    The statement remains .

    Anonymous said this on August 29, 2011 at 10:40 PM


    Not sure if your comment was addressed to me or not as there are no names but one time I played a song on a comb.

    And another time I shoveled poop for a farmer but I said I’d never do that again and yet here I stand knee deep.

    It wasn’t a lucky break that Warren was caught on the lonesome roads of Nevada. MY statement remains.

    I will sign my name twice so you know who said this.

  332. So how do you know this Walton, Dutchover testified in court that it was a traffic stop, nothing more. Are you saying he lied on the stand? I don’t believe you have information that can prove it was anything more than a lucky stop.

  333. You both need to wake up. Yes I can see that you have the ability to read. But do you have any other abilities ??

    The statement remains .

    Anonymous said this on August 29, 2011 at 10:40 PM

    Sure, your statement remains. But that doesn’t make it fact.

  334. Dutchover NEVER lied. He told the truth.

    I shouldn’t have said anything. I am not taking back what I said, I just shouldn’t have said it.

    I am pissed and my snarky attitude is showing. I am sorry for that. But I am not taking back what I said about it being a lucky stop.

    Anon, I am sorry I snapped.

  335. The script:

  336. I’ve read a lot of “I hope and pray he doesn’t die” comments on this board. Question: Are you really praying to you Heavenly Father tonight that WSJ doesn’t die, or are those just hollow words?

  337. The group most approving of Pyle’s raid was the Mormon Church itself. The Mormons had officially banned polygamy — a practice the church fathers had previously celebrated as a sacrament — in 1890, in part of an effort to make Utah an attractive target for U.S. statehood, which finally came in 1896. But Short Creek was in Arizona, which took another 16 years to join the union. Although Arizona never permitted polygamy, it was more hospitable to the practice than Utah. The Mormon Church loudly cheered the Short Creek raid, because Pyle was eliminating a dissident sect that served as a public reminder of the church’s embarrassing past.

    Puppets on a string.

  338. Walton, you may be wrong (I could not possibly know) but you are certainly not simply paranoid. I have personal professional experience with “routine traffic stops” being completely pre-planned. It depends on the situation, but I can’t tell you how many times I read the words “routine traffic stop” in LE reports, especially federal ones, while everyone had utter evidence to the contrary. When this happens, I believe it is not sinister, but the result of a long and warranted surveillance investigation. However, I have to say that from all the accounts I have read of the halted Escalade, the Nevada LE officer was incredulous at the gravity of his find, and I don’t believe in this case that it was planned.

    All our tensions are high right now, mine are reaching some record levels. Please forgive posts I might make on an emotional level. I think most of us strive to resist that.

    I think we all thank whoever we can possibly think to thank that the god damn Escalade got stopped no matter why.

    And, FYI, drugs or no drugs, red cars have been pulled over at much higher percentages than other colors for years and years. Like back to the the 1950’s Ford Mustang Convertibles.

    Again, I’m neither LE nor atty.

  339. Anon 11:48, I truly am hoping that WSJ doesn’t die now. We’ll all die at some point. I worry about the effect upon my family members and all of the sheeple and the crick if he is seen either as martyred or if they convince themselves he died from their lack of worthiness.

    I can’t say I’m praying because I’m having trouble with the whole concept of God and Jesus right about now.

  340. Want A laugh?

  341. If ANY of you would like to write a post for us, please do. I am ignorant and just learning about all of this.

  342. I’m going to leave Fred out of this one, but Admin? I’m really not trying to be impolite. Her heart seems in the right place, but why can’t Poly just append a link to our blog on his/her site? She’s had a credible place on ours for some time.

  343. Third Cousin – I didn’t say the stop was sinister. I understand the long-awaited investigations of such things. What I said was… it wasn’t just a lucky traffic stop.

    Dutchuck was doing his job and he did it well. He never lied. And I too am glad that the vehicle was stopped.

    And honestly I have tried to keep my emotions in check.

    Anon. I really am sorry.

    Concerning Warrens health – there are a lot of ifffy stories out there. the very first article from ABC was written by those who normally report on the Entertainment stories.

    Anderson Cooper has a little bit on line.

    Lindsay has something at the Trib. which includes a quote from Sam stating Warren is in a medically induced coma.

    Ben has a story out there.

    But the best one I’ve seen is by KSL John Hollensworth –

  344. Just catching up now that the power came back on – medically induced comas are usually used for treatment of brain swelling following a severe stroke or traumatic brain injury.

  345. BIB: Good to lewarn that you came through the storm OK.

  346. Glad you are back and have power BiB, hope the storm didn’t do too much damage for you.

    Walton if you know something about the traffic stop that the rest of us don’t know, please spit it out. It’s over and done with and Warren is convicted, so please stop beating around the bush and just say it.

  347. Anon
    I am praying that Warren survives.

    a) if he dies now (so soon after sentencing) and before the real news finally filters in and is processed in Short Creek it could be catastrophic for the ability of the members to let him go and accept that he was a truly evil man and that their religion and meaning of life fed into and made the situation possible
    b) he will be punished to a much greater degree alive and without the ability to narcissistically control everything.

  348. Thank you – medically induced coma is also used to treat intractable seizures.

  349. Strange – we’ve wanted him to be out of power for years, now, when he faces possible death, we want him to live. The only way Warren will be removed from power is through death. Why can’t people see this? Who cares if they make him a martyr, he’ll be a dead martyr that can no longer call the shots.

  350. What could happen ?? He could have a large mental breakdown, & be put in a mental institution, for life, it’s happened before in history, what else ??, Many kings & potentates after losing their empires, can’t handle that , so they eventually & usually have a mental breakdown ? So if you pray he lives, pray he has a mental breakdown !!!!!! That’s ” HELL” enough & more !!!!!!!! From a twisted poster,( just a small twist) ………..

  351. Anon @ 7:38, because right now, the FLDS is kind of in limbo without their prophet there to guide them in every aspect of their daily lives. if Warren died, then a new prophet would step forth and they’d be right back into marrying young girls before you know it. as of right now, they are kind of trying to figure out what to do. No marriages (that I know of) have been performed in at least a couple years because Warren is stuck in jail. this gives the girls and boys a chance to grow up and possibly see how fucked up the situation they’re living in is. and then change it. yes, it’s a good thing that Warren is in jail. in a way it weakens the power of the FLDS leaders more than if he was dead. because unless he dies, nobody can take his place, and he’s very limited as to what he can do now.

  352. First time I’ve seen news of Warren Jeffs on the front page of my local news site before I saw it here!

  353. Is there any chance that some of the FLDS might start to think that God is NOT on Warren’s side?

  354. Thanks for posting yehaaa. I was wondering if it was better for the sheeple if he died or was in prison. My question is, how can he now pass the mantle since he can’t “lay hands” on a person. There is no contact visits allowed in Texas prisons.

  355. Speaking solely for myself, I would never pray for anyone to die or for God to bring down any suffering upon them.

    That’s just one of the differences between myself and Warren Jeffs.

  356. I am with you on prayers TexasTwist. I could never pray for death or calamity to be afflicted on anyone. However warren and brian mitcell had no problem doing that.

  357. I agree Twist, but you have to admit Warren did say it wasn’t him, he was just relaying God’s message. Of course he was told not to relay it, but it didn’t stop him. He wants scourge and pestulance to befall us. Maybe it’s a case of be careful what you wish for and now he’s the one with scourge and pestulance.

  358. Winslow’s latest:,0,2107695.story

  359. I’ll go so far to say that I’m of the opinion that no one is beyond “redemption” in a lifetime, even psychopaths like Warren.

    That’s why I so strongly favor long incarcerations as the best form of punishment in most cases and certainly in Warren’s.

    If anything, I would pray that he be kept as healthy as possible so that he may fully enjoy the blessing of having the time for reflection.

  360. “Is there any chance that some of the FLDS might start to think that God is NOT on Warren’s side?”

    I would say that is already happening.

    To wit: the Willies and those who preceded them and those who will follow.

    To what degrees and to what other directions are open questions.

    More power to them and to everyone else who have taken other paths.

  361. texastwist said: There are credible mentions of his “other health conditions” that are more of a concern according to an unnamed “official.”
    Anyone have a clue what that might be?
    Anonymous said this on August 29, 2011 at 8:54 PM

    LOL – Anon you crack me up!! I learn so much from this blog site!

    My father was placed in a medical induced coma after he had a stroke from his carotid artery failing on one side (artery up the side of your neck to brain). He was put in that state for a few days to give the brain time to redirect blood flow to the side of his brain that had lost flow from the colapse. He was in his late 70’s. He did survive but, lost some mental capabilities. Strokes are like a scratch on a cd – where ever they hit in brain you lose that functionality but rest stays intact. Some you can re-learn some you can not. Not saying Warren had a stroke but, it is one reason for being put in temporary coma.

  362. It’s commonly known amongst the FLDS that if the leader of group, is mentally incapacitated or a breakdown like that, said leader will only have enough authority to appoint another in his stead…..IMO, WSJ should be institutionalized, with all the suffering he’s brought on people,he should have suffering of his own !!!!! Some people call it ” swift & immediate or divine retribution !!!!!! Whatever you want to call it, he should have suffering to experience, to what degree that’s for God to decide !!!! Read the Old Testament to see what judgements afflicted kings, despots & empires !!!!!!! A little twisted poster …………..

  363. Death we all must experience & go through, nobody’s exempt from that , death’s the easy way out for WSJ !! Is there a fate worse than death ???? Yes, mental incapacitation, makes you wish you were dead !!!!!!!! A twisted little poster …………….

  364. “Not saying Warren had a stroke but, it is one reason for being put in temporary coma.

    Watergirl said this on August 30, 2011 at 11:07 AM”

    See my comments above. Medically induced coma is a treatment for brain swelling (which usually results from acute stroke, intracranial bleeding, or traumatic brain injury) or intractable seizures.

  365. now they are saying he will make a full recovery:

  366. yes BIB, I did read that. I guess I was just having a reflective moment of past experience with my father – a wonderful loving man. he died in 2010 and I still miss him.

  367. “I’ve read a lot of “I hope and pray he doesn’t die” comments on this board. Question: Are you really praying to you Heavenly Father tonight that WSJ doesn’t die, or are those just hollow words?”


    I think people want Warren to live not for Warren’s chance for a fulfilling life, but for the voo doo it puts on his hold on all the people who were once under his micromanaging control.

    Like others say, if he is gone, things will probably get worse fast for thousands of people and young girls will once again be in danger.

  368. I just want to take a moment and thank all the former FLDS members and Creek residents for posting here. For a concerned outsider like me, it reminds me of how REAL this is, how it has the potential to destroy lives, and HAS destroyed lives. It takes courage to leave and courage to communicate here, even anonymously or with a pseudonym. Thank you for your substantial contributions to our understanding of the FLDS, Warren Jeffs, and his henchmen.

  369. As paranoid as Warren Jeffs is about others aspiring to power (e.g. the Barlow excommunications), he has to be freaking out that someone back at Short Creek or even at YFZ isn’t trying to pull the same stunt he pulled years ago when he began “speaking” for his father. With communication more restricted now that he’s in the big house, he could totally be left in the dark while someone else rose to the role acting prophet without his even knowing. He’s totally relying on others for information… how much does he really trust his henchmen… kind of funny how the tables could turn. Wasn’t too long ago he was commanding “temple builders” to not keep their “other families” in the Crick informed about their new underaged wives (Emack for example). Heck, not even letting any average cricker know about the goings-on at YFZ. Now maybe he’ll be the one on the outside. It’s only a matter of time before a couple of the curious faithful surf the interent on their nifty smart phones and learn the truth about what dear, sweet, Uncle Warren was REALLY up to and the gossip starts to spread. It’s gotta drive the paranoid narcissist control-freak in him absolutely crazy. He cannot dictate every aspect of their lives anymore. I imagine his most recent hunger strike/fast is a desperate attempt to remind the FLDS faithful he’s still here… still suffering for their sins… and hoping the sheeple still care.

    Here’s to hoping the sheeple see the light and start making changes in their communities and church.

  370. We have read about phone restrictions but, nothing about letter reading/writing restrictions – not that I recall. With nothing else to do for 23 hours – I expect he could fill the day with his long worded correspondence. He can run the sheeple nicely from afar via the written word if given the chance.

  371. The Polygamist’s Daughter is writing a book :

  372. Jeffs enroute to prison hospital in Galveston, TX:

  373. Watergirl – In general, correspondence to/from an offender will be inspected, except for correspondence with attorneys. You can find out more at the Texas Dept. of Criminal Justice website if you want to know about telephone calls, mail, visits, etc.

    the Offender Orientation Handbook has very detailed information of what is permissible.

  374. TDCJ in front of the story today.

    Good for them.

  375. “According to the source, the 55-year-old leader of the nation’s largest polygamist group was sedated, pharmacologically paralyzed and placed on a ventilator as part of his treatment for pneumonia.”


  376. Update at 4:40 p.m. ET. Jeffs Moved:

    Corrections officials in Texas say Jeffs is being moved to a prison hospital in Galveston. He is still in critical but stable condition, and was reported to be conscious.

    “Whenever possible, we send inmates needing medical attention to Hospital Galveston because it is a secure prison facility,” says Michelle Lyons, spokeswoman for the Texas Department of Criminal Justice. “Once Jeffs was stabilized at East Texas Medical Facility, we then were able to transport him to a more secure setting where he still will have access to hospital care.”

  377. Lindsay Whitehurst — The Polygamy Blog:

    Reading the tea leaves on Warren Jeffs

  378. The NPR blog Anon 8:28 linked says Warren never was in a coma, medically induced or otherwise…

    “The treatment Jeffs has not received according to the source — a medically induced coma — is typically used on patients with brain injuries.”

  379. Is Bill Medvecky as stupid as his post ? I seriously think he as perverted as Warren.Does he post the crap about Warren to get attention? He absolutely knows no shame.i don’ get it,i just don’t get it.

  380. Reuters/Jim Forsyth: “…authorities denied widely reported rumors that he was in a medically induced coma.”,0,594535.story

  381. “He is still in critical but stable condition, and was reported to be conscious”

    I doubt he’s ever been stable. He’s been in a religiously induced coma for 40 years. There’s no chance he’ll ever wake up from that.

  382. Now knowing what I know about Medvecky,I am surprised that he hasn’t came out and called the little children that Warren raped “sluts and whores”. He had become so outrightidiotic that his own words are hurting the very group of people that he tries to defend. There really is no need to call him on his stupidity,he proves that fact by him self.Even the leaders of the FLDS have displayed their disgust with Jeffs,and they are shady their selves. It proves one thing for sure…only a genuine pedophile can bestow their blessings on another pedophile.

  383. I’ll shut up now.Sorry for the ranting.

  384. Thanks James for ranting & saying what you did, most of us would like without sounding like KOOKS !!!!!! It’s all good to have somebody rant occasionally, & vent our anger over outright STUPIDITY on the SHEEPLE of WSJ, remember he’s a charlatan & flimflam man, & a snake oil salesman,he’s been selling a lot of snake oil over the YEARS !!!!!!!! A twisted little poster………

  385. Dear ‘FLDS Texas’, please remove the bird droppings from some Medvecky apologist, I know an oxymoron, postings as “James” @ 7:01PM, @ 7:24 PM & 7:27PM.

    Thanx, caJIM

    I guess my postings on Vulture blog got somebody all flustered, even after Vulture edited several stupid goof comments by himself and his ‘butt-buddys’

  386. I read Medvecky’s post and didn’t understand 1/2 of it. I don’t think the man realizes that he can’t be on both sides. He’s either of Warren and Lyle’s side or on Will and Willie’s side. Those people aren’t on the same side.

  387. Cal,I don’t understand you,and I don’t care to understand you.My beef with bill is none of your business.They are posted.

  388. Posters here be advised that “James” is a troll and attempting to prove that his taunt of “Medvecky” rants will set off a rash of negative comments.

    MadeWacky has lost his supposed ‘fiendship’ with Willie R. “Thug” Jessop, wants to roast Debra Brown before any legal judgments are made, ignores the over 40+indictments in Colorado City on two FLDS Churchmen Jake Jessop and David Darger, he describes the Canadian Mounty investigation into “Child Bride’ sex trafficking as another ‘persecution’ , doesn’t believe that the ‘polygamy’ reference case will uphold Canadian bugamy laws and now proclaims that real Justice can only be had at the Utah/Federal supreme Court levels.

    Run along “James” you fooled no one with your dribble.

  389. Cal,it’s drivel,not dribble.It seems as if you have become the same as Bill.You only make yourself look foolish.But,if it seems to make your ego fell good,shoot away.I just don’t care so I guess you will have to get over it because i have no idea what you are talking about…period. I do so my post still up on the board.I guess you can run and tattle .

  390. CaJim, I don’t personally see James as a troll, but you seem to know something I don’t – I guess.

    However, James did make up a wonderful new word which I like a lot – “outrightidiotic”. I’ve got to give him credit for that.

  391. I’m sorry,but I don’t know this person,never met or talked to him ,but he certainly has the right to post anything that the moderator allows.The moderator is the person in charge and can delete anything.That’s ok with me.I just don’t feel that I have the right to barge in and order people around and accuse them of things.

  392. OK, I bit on the bait and read what that Bile McVile said and my conclusion is that he is either drunk or stupid – or both. I just read his latest rant where he is making up history where he says:

    1) “They’ve seized their land and property.” – The US Government threatened to do that to the Mormons in the 1880’s but it never happened because the Mormons acquiesced and “denounced” polygamy – although with a few winks for several decades.

    2) “They’ve stolen their children and tried to sell them.” – I think the only time this happened in Mormon history was with the children stolen by the Mormons from the Arkansas Baker/Francher wagon train after the Mormons murdered the parents during the Mountain Meadows Massacre in 1857. And I think the surviving children from the MMM were just stolen and then given away to Mormon families; I don’t think they were sold. (Although Brigham Young did demand that a hefty reimbursement be paid to the LDS church members, who raised the children, be paid before the children were allowed to go home to their Arkansas relatives.)

    3) “To this day, NOBODY has ever been convicted of ‘Raping’ the girl who simply couldn’t stay off her back. ” Nobody had to convict anyone for raping Elissa Wall because Allen Glade Steed plead guilty to that a year ago.

    4) “The plan has worked, and a few weeks ago, the Leader of the Mormons was sent to prison for 129 years. ” Nope, President Monson was not sent to prison a few weeks ago.

    And then this disgusting halfwit continues to rant on and on and on, but I don’t have the stomach to read anymore of his BS. He is nothing but a liar. I apologize for posting his garbage on this blog, but since I would never post on HIS blog, I just had to point out the first of 4 of his many lies.

  393. James at 11:25 PM – maybe you do have something beneficial to say, but you’re no better speller than CaJim, however. Pay attention to those underlining red squiggly lines please – they are telling you something.

    Anal Anon

  394. “If your not taking in enough, particularly if you have an illness, you can develop these electrolyte abnormalities and then your kidney function can begin to get bad,” McCrady said. “Things can go from bad to worse very rapidly when a person is dehydrated, particularly in a heat environment.”

    This video in this link has more details from Lyons and.. a Dr. who tries to explain what could have been the case with Warren Jeffs.

    Warren was in the Texas system and had no issues. Texas LE has shown everyone (out here) that they go out of their way to take care of their prisoner. It would have seemed VERY strange that within weeks of being sent to prison the media has him on his deathbed.

    We all know that Warren has had some health issues and I am sure that in time those conditions will take a toll on his body and mind. And as some time passes (the next few months) I am sure that Warren will tell his “followers” that his health is failing. And he will announce his decision as to who will take his place. I am almost sure it will not be either of the Willies or Lyle but someone else who doesn’t have the background that they do. (People shouldn’t have to settle with one bad apple or the other)

    I still think that having a couple of Texas Rangers in every state would be a good idea. EVERYONE needs to be able to count on someone and they need to know that they can contact someone who would protect them. Texas has said straight out their intent and have followed thru. And continues to follow thru. People need to see that.


  395. James – I continue to be interested in your posts. I can’t spell worth a hill of beans and there aren’t any “red squiggly lines” when I post.

    So please keep posting.


  396. No ‘James’ not drivel but dribble, as in piecemeal or desultory fashion but you seem to want to talk for me as well as your knuckleheaded postings. His purpose is to try to inflame postings at, against and critical of BillM.

  397. My comment was actually meant for ZXC. I am interested in reading more from ZXC.

    I am NOT interested in seeing anything from WildBill or his storm chasers.

  398. $3-million home faces seizure after owner accused of human trafficking

    Read more:

    This is exactly what should be done both in Canada and in the states.



    Meanwhile, while looking into his disappearance, Lakeville police said they discovered evidence prompting a fraud investigation into Cross, who was arrested Monday afternoon in Cambria, Calif.

    His 11-year-old son woke up alone July 18 in his Lakeville home. Cross, whose house was sold at a sheriff’s auction in January, left the boy a note telling him to go live with a neighbor.


    Backstrom said his office usually doesn’t extradite defendants charged with gross misdemeanors, but prosecutors intend to do so in this case “because of the nature of the offense” of alleged child neglect.


    Charges should be made and followed thru with all those that have been involved with the trading and abandonment of the children. As I write this I have yet to see any one else charged and imo it gives a green light for others to do the same.

    Utah and Arizona have enough proof in their own system to start enforcing the laws. And if there are time limits on such thing.. those sitting on the job should be charged with neglect or failure to do their jobs.


  400. Strange, no mention of Jeremy Johnson’s follies helping to bring down SunFirst bank. I can’t help but think that SunFirst’s loss of Jeremy’s multimillion dollar business of processing scam credit card purchases attributed to this situation.

    And then the loss of the Board member Campos’ bank transactions, because he got busted for processing gambling debts through SunFirst, didn’t help any.

    Plus sitting on Jeremy’s $3 million “upside down” mansion wouldn’t help the bank any either.

    But NOOOOOO – no mention at all that they banked with crooks.

    FDIC directs SunFirst Bank to raise funds

    ST. GEORGE – Representatives from SunFirst Bank are working to attract additional investors after federal regulators ordered the St. George institution to either raise additional capital, accept an offer to sell the bank or form a partnership with another financial institution.

    An order known as a “supervisory prompt corrective action directive,” issued by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation on July 28 and made public Friday, describes SunFirst as “significantly undercapitalized” and directs the bank to take steps toward selling voting shares or obligations in an effort to raise capital or accept an offer to be acquired or combine with another bank.

    “The bank’s unacceptable capital restoration plan, deteriorating condition and management’s inability to return the bank to a safe and sound condition require that prompt corrective action be taken immediately,” the FDIC said in the directive.

    Gerry Smith, an adviser to SunFirst’s board of directors, said the bank experienced losses in recent years when the area’s real estate market collapse resulted in a number of troubled loans.

    SunFirst had $17,048,000 in total equity capital on June 30, representing a decline from the $23,645,000 in total equity capital recorded in June of 2010, according to the FDIC.

    Read the rest:

  401. Judge Dee Benson (recognize that name?) and attorney Peter Stirba (recognize that name?) are at it again trying to undo justice:
    A Utah doctor was found guilty 2 weeks ago on 40 counts of illegally dispensing painkillers to his patients. Now his attorney, Peter Stirba, wants a “redo” and Judge Dee Benson is going to let him have it.

    Federal judge grants convicted pill doctor another day in court

    U.S. District Judge Dee Benson granted Dewey MacKay’s defense lawyers a hearing Sept. 21 on their allegation that prosecutors lied during the five-week trial’s closing arguments. In a motion filed as the jury deliberated Aug. 17, attorney Peter Stirba asked the judge to dismiss the charges against MacKay, contending the false statements prevented the jury from fairly evaluating the evidence.

    Doctor found guilty on 40 counts

    SALT LAKE CITY — A Brigham City doctor accused of illegally dispensing painkillers to his patients was found not guilty on 46 counts against him but guilty on 40 others, including two related to the death of a 55-year-old man…

    Federal prosecutors painted MacKay as a drug dealer who blindly dispensed highly addictive pain pills without checking patients’ personal or medical histories. They say he saw nearly 100 patients some days and ignored information about doctor shopping and drug abuse.

    “What he did is sold his autograph on those prescriptions for $70 a visit,” said assistant U.S. attorney Richard Daynes.

  402. Stay on topic always,this website’s about WSJ & flds texas, & flds sheeple !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STAY ON TOPIC PLEASE !!!!!!!! Twisted little poster …………

  403. From one of the more careful news reports

    “Jeffs fell ill while fasting in a prison in Palestine, Texas, where he is serving a life-plus-20-year term for sexual assault, Texas Department of Criminal Justice spokesman Jason Clark said. But while a source familiar with Jeffs’ condition told CNN Monday that the leader of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was in a coma, Clark said Tuesday that Jeffs was conscious.”

    It is entirely possible that the “source familiar with Jeffs’ condition” was not FLDS or on FLDS payroll – and that it was an honest mistake. Miscommunication happens.

    It does bring up an intriguing possibility, however. I’m not normally a conspiracy theorist, but the FLDS has an impressive history of deliberately manipulating news stories for their own purposes.

    Please note that this is only a theory:

    What if FLDS leadership began feeding misinformation about Jeffs to the press – just close enough to the truth to be credible? The coma story is perfect. It is dire, highly newsworthy – and, as it turns out, false. The FLDS leadership could then present evidence to their own people about the false reports – and make the case that the national news is not to be trusted when it comes to reports about Jeffs.

    That would play right into their hands, freeing them to portray his health, living conditions, etc. in any manner they choose -without fear of credible (to their audience) contradiction from the press.

    All it takes is to up the hysteria anytime Jeffs makes the news for any reason with a credible-sounding false report from a “trusted source” offering a more dramatic, (and newsworthy) version of the actual event.

    If similar reports appear in future, it might be worth watching for a trend….

  404. Thanks for the posts on JJ, Sunfirst and Dee Benson.

    Its all part of the corrupt scenario in Utah, which wonder of wonders gave birth to this FLDS brand of crazy.

    IMHO they are related and relevant. These topics are being followed as well – and this IS an open Discussion forum – read the title.

  405. Twisted little poster, maybe I should call you “uninformed little poster.”

    Jeremy Johnson IS involved with the FLDS – he was in the Sons of Perdition documentary (had some of the FLDS kids living in his house) and he owned the “House Just Off Bluff” (where other FLDS kids lived.)

    Judge Dee Benson and Peter Stirba ARE involved with the FLDS – ever heard of the UEP Trust?

  406. More bad driving by the Pringle polygs:

    Semi accident temporarily closes lane near Watford City

    An accident involving two semis shut down traffic on U.S. Highway 85 for four hours early this morning. According to a report from the North Dakota Highway Patrol, Steven Black, 31, Colorado City, Ariz., was traveling northbound in a 1994 Freightliner semi. Steve Solem, 48, Watford City, was traveling southbound in a 1998 Kenworth.

  407. Anon. I couldn’t get the spectrum article but I found this:

    Separately, U.S. District Judge Roger Hunt in Las Vegas last week signed an order allowing the FTC to auction off Johnson assets worth millions of dollars, with the hope that some of the money can be provided to consumers to cover some of their $289 million in losses.


  408. Jerrie miscommunication does happen. But the biggest source of miscommunication appears to be coming from some of those that want to see the FLDS fold. (other groups that might be waiting in the wings to merge the properties/gain monies/power/control or be rid of the “embarassing dress”.)

    One thing I know for sure is that Texas has said straight out that they would help. And help they have. We have seen by their action that they have meant it. Everyone needs a real “safety net” and Texas is not only my sense of security but I am sure many others. I don’t have a problem with Big brother watching me as long as it is someone from Texas LE. ( And yes, I know there are other agencies out there that are trying to help but they are doing so behind the scenes and I honeslty don’t know how to thank those that I can’t see or name)


  409. Anonymous : yes I have heard of those things, we should be talking about those things, I can’t help the ” lost boys”only myself, I live CCA/Hildale area
    & know of UEP trust,,,, I’m more interested in what happening with WSJ,his sheeple, his latest antics ,BS , & the UEP trust than anything about the “lost boys”,,,,,, Can’t do anything for them,, i have my own troubles living HERE….. Try living here & see that you’re concern is for yourself & you’re well being & looking out for # 1 …. Repeat I can’t help those ” Boys,” I doubt you can either…. twisted poster

  410. twisted poster- you walk right over to Gary Engles office and sit down with him. He will help you get the info you need.

    Isaac Wyler is another person you can talk to.

  411. a note to Little Twisted-

    I have been through some anguish, turmoil, threats, etc, in my own life due to some pretty bad choices both of my adult kids made over the past year. I even had to take a long break over last fall and winter from one of my twisted little hobbies- polyg watching!- because of my own stress.

    I just want to remind you, and all of the others who observe the rule of law, who are living in CC-Hildale- This is the USA, and you live in US state(s.) You therefore have many rights and freedoms. (and some obligations.) It’s time for CC-Hildale to be made to come into the US and into the realm of UT and AZ laws for conduct, or face every single legal consequence imaginable. So don’t back down anymore. You have moral support from people watching this all around the US. The rest of the US couldn’t possibly get away forever with the nonsense that is “normal” in the polyg societies. The flds “number” is finally up- so don’t ever back down.

  412. I know Issac Wyler, a good friend ,don’t know Gary Engles, although I’ve heard,read, & seen programs about him…… To anybody out there, I know now not evervone will be happy with what I write on these posts, can’t please everyone……. Ricky Nelson before he died sung a song called, ” Garden Party ” ,,,, one line in that song goes ” you can’t please everyone, you got to please yourself ” So I may not please everyone,” please myself ” Yes, that’s
    all I can do at this point in time !!!! twisted poster……

  413. HA

    Yeah Texas has a “Safety Net”

    Note they “netted” a bunch of child molesters and stuffed them in their little cages…

    Makes it a little more “SAFE” for the children with those convicts tucked away.

  414. It’s ok, is very stressful. Hang in there, and I do wish you as little stress as possible. God bless-

  415. Colleen Curry has been with ABC not even a month and as luck would have it she was chosen to do a story on Jeffs. Wow. Check out the story.

    The whole thing about Sam Brower talking about the statue was NOT in quotation marks. Which means IF it was discussed Sam probably said he heard rumors that there was talk of a statue.

    IF that statue goes up the ones that built it should take credit for it and stop passing the buck. And then they should take it right downtown Salt Lake and stand it next to the one of John Taylor.

    Those still remaining the FLDS aren’t going to believe it any more than I do that Warren Jeffs ordered it.

    With all these new reporters I am hoping that some of them put cameras in the faces of those in Utah and Arizona that have allowed this to go on for so long. Start with the Gov. 🙂 If anyone needs help with some questions I have a list.


  416. ProudT – or anyone:

    Whoa. What’s with the tower Randy Mankin showed on the front page of the Success? It looks like a concrete Soviet rocket. Bizarre.


    Oops, DeToto seems to be in trouble.

  418. Miele, here’s a link to lots of new pictures of the YFZ.

  419. I think it’s a new Tower of Babel.

  420. Thanks, gretchen for your support !!!!!!!!! twisted poster………

  421. Miele, that looks like a water tower under construction to me, but I don’t know.

  422. Aye, yaye, yaye! Those photos. A Gadhafi like compound has come to America. What’s down the road for us?

  423. Once again thanks to The Pilot for the wonderful photos.

    This is what I saw that made me go hmmm.
    Cows but no hay
    Combines but no wheat
    What looks like anhydrous tanks but not enough fields for that many tanks
    Home type structures but no families

    Not a swing set in sight
    Not a bike, a trike or a bouncy ball any where
    Not a tree fort, nor a swimming pool
    Not a cat nor dog only cows in the sun

    Fenced in yards with no lawn chairs or basketball hoops
    A meeting house with no people
    A Temple with no Prophet

    Where are the kids?

    Did I miss anything?

  424. Walton, thanks so much for linking to that VegasInc article on SunFirst Bank. It was a stark contrast to The Spectrum article, which mentioned neither Jeremy Johnson nor John Campos for contributing to the downfall of this bank.

  425. Anon. – your welcome. I could’t get into the spectrum article. So I had to go digging.

    There is more to the Jeremy Johnson story/stories. I think more will be showing up soon. A few weeks ago it was mentioned that he might get rid of his lawyers and defend himself in court.

    Orrin Hatch actually wrote a letter in support of the great Jeremy Johnson. And I had heard (no proof yet) that Mark Shurtleff had stayed at one of Jeremy’s properties in St. George around the time of the Willie meetings.
    My isn’t that nice.

    Mark Shurtleff has been known to lunch with people who have questionable backgrounds and then say ooops later. ( NOT all luncheons but some)


  426. The tower being at YFZ,,,,,if it’s filled in with cement ?? Could be a pedestal for WSJ’s sheeple supporters to maybe erect a metal statue of WSJ, so even if he didn’t order it built, he will take credit for it !!!! WSJ always the opportunist, opportunist, opportunist !!!!!! lol …. twisted poster

  427. I wonder why we have suddenly gotten a supply of new posters who seem to know better than anyone else what the purpose, rules and topic of this blog are or should be? Whatever have we done to be so blessed?

  428. I wonder why we have suddenly gotten a supply of new posters who seem to know better than anyone else what the purpose, rules and topic of this blog are or should be? Whatever have we done to be so blessed?

    Betty said this on August 31, 2011 at 8:28 PM

    Great post. Maybe I am posting things I shouldn’t be posting. or maybe I signed up on a blog thinking it was one thing when really it was something else.

    Make a list of the rules that way everyone will know. And then a list of those that are moderaters would be great.


  429. Betty, STOP with the sarcasm !!!!!!!!!!

  430. If y’all truly want to help the less fortunate please try not to judge.

  431. Miele, here’s a link to lots of new pictures of the YFZ.

    Proud Texan said this on August 31, 2011 at 4:16 PM

    Looks like the YFZ folks are really beefing up security with even more gates cameras etc. Which raises the question are the security measures to keep outsiders away or the insure those inside YFZ don’t defect to the free world? Are they planing a “Berlin Wall” around the compound to prevent contact with the free world?

    As to the tower base would agree that it’s most likely a water tower, an almost identical tower is under construction where I live, complete with a door in the base like the one at YFZ.

    The water tower could be a sign that more FLDS maybe arriving, could it be possible the Lyle and the hardcore FLDS are planning to relocate to YFZ, to leave Short Creek to Willie the thug and Willie the fugly?

    Are the Warrenities so delusional that they build a house for “Warren”, when everyone knows that the only way Warren Jeffs is going to leave the TDCJ in a pine box straight to Peckerwood Hill Cemetery in Huntsville,TX.

  432. Talked to William Timpson Jessop in person for a while over the weekend.

    Also had a very very intimate look around the crick.

    Yes, the Zion signs are up.

    Yes we did get followed by the god squad.

    And yes, Lyle is now spewing even more crazy crap. Like you wouldn’t even believe….

    Took in a Buuuunch of information over the weekend…head is kinda spinning…but still a very good visit.

  433. I live CCA/Hildale area
    Yes, twisted poster, your excessive punctuation gives that away. Out here, one comma is enough.

  434. That was unkind. And a little snarky. I’m sorry.

  435. Ariel, I’d love to hear your thoughts. If you don’t feel comfortable posting them, you can email me. My email is proudtexan09 @ gmail.

  436. Thank you all kindly. So what is the white fence fencing across from the missile silo/tower of babel/water tower? Don’t you usually build a structure first – then fence it?

    Maybe it’s a go cart track?

  437. Great pictures! I presume they are from “Pilot”, bless him and his telephoto lens! If it weren’t for him, I don’t know if we’d ever get to see the changes going on inside the walls. If we didn’t know just what this place was about, it could be mistaken for a well maintained “gated” community of lovely houses and well manicured grounds. A nice orchard, garden and dairy. A long time ago I made a comment about how I liked the look of the structures and the designs of the houses, temple and meeting house…and someone took exception to that, for some unknown reason. But I DO like them. But, then as Walton said…there are no people [other than those few bewildered guys around the trucks] or toys or signs of life within the walls. It’s all very sterile! The “hunting retreat” is really more of a religious prison….. Everyone musta been in lockdown during the photo flyover!

  438. mc1199 – I just happen to be at the point in Sam Brower’s book where he first goes up with “the pilot.” He said at the sound of the plane everyone ducks under porches – runs inside, etc.

    Up thread Connie mentioned a thanks to former FLDS and people who live in Short Creek. She said it better than I could, but I echo her sentiments.
    Thank you all for sharing.

  439. I happen to like Betty’s “sarcasm”. I think Betty is a really cool lady. And I’m glad she got her power back and doesn’t have to blog on a cell phone – YUCK!

    One does have to wonder about the coincidence of Warren’s having been SENT TO PRISON FOR LIFE PLUS 20 YEARS and then “new” people come on board. But, I have no problem with new blood on this blog. Heck, I was new on this blog several years ago.

    However, I’ll still continue to expand the “General Discussion” thread with matters that are indirectly related to the FLDS (such as Jeremy Johnson,) contrary to what some new posters think or want.

    Because that is my “just want and need.” So there – phhutt.

  440. Sis, snarky is OK here. It keeps people on their toes. But, hateful or hurtful is a different matter.

  441. Back to Jeremy Johnson … and if you aren’t interested, then skip over this post!

    walton, I think it will be devastating when the truth comes out about Jeremy Johnson (if it ever does) and who was involved with him… and how/how much they were involved with him.

    I think it will be especially crushing to people in St. George, and mind-blowing to people in the state of Utah in general.

    Jeremy Johnson is just another scam artist in a state with a terrible history of scam artists and Ponzi schemes.

    But now a respected bank is about to become insolvent because of his (among others’) greed.

  442. A Texan, I can’t tell you how many out-loud laughs I get each time you mention Warren ending up in Peckerwood.

    Too funny!

  443. Talked to William Timpson Jessop in person for a while over the weekend.

    Ariel said this on August 31, 2011 at 10:27 PM

    Ariel, do you glow now? Did you believe what he told you? He is becoming very “open and upfront – ahem” now. What IS he up to?

  444. Thank you all kindly. So what is the white fence fencing across from the missile silo/tower of babel/water tower? Don’t you usually build a structure first – then fence it?

    Maybe it’s a go cart track?

    Miele said this on August 31, 2011 at 10:51 PM

    Miele, maybe it’s a “go child brides” track. The first one who catches her gets her. The poor little girls on tricycles will surely be at a disadvantage!

  445. I am going to cross-post this to the “General Discussion” thread in addition to this one. Please forgive me, but it is only for informational purposes.

    I think I know who ZXC is and I won’t directly out him, but I strongly believe that he is part of CPAC – the Centennial Park Action Committee.

    I have heard similar BS in the past from a guy from CPAC, who thinks he is the “great debater”, so that is why I’m posting this.

  446. Ariel, I would also like to ask you what William E. said. very curious as to what’s up with that whole situation. I’ve called my family down there but have tried to stay away from that whole mess in conversations. my email is yehaaa6 at gmail

  447. I am going to cross-post this to the “General Discussion” thread in addition to this “search warrant” thread. Please forgive me, but it is only for informational purposes.

    I think I know who ZXC is and I won’t directly out him, but I strongly believe that he is part of CPAC – the Centennial Park Action Committee.

    I have heard similar BS in the past from a guy from CPAC, who thinks he is the “great debater”, so that is why I’m posting this.

  448. Anon 11:40 P – I don’t care who you are – that there’s funny! The imagery.

    I feel so bad for laughing at child brides on tricycles that I’m going to sue myself anonymously and answer me nothing.

  449. @Miele – I still laugh every time you sue yourself anonymously and then answer yourself nothing. New folks to this blog won’t understand the reference, and I can’t remember it well enough to explain how it came about … but it still tickles me.

    Join right in, folks. You won’t be new for long. And over the period of several years we’ve had some truly great conversations and, for the most part, polite discussions. The Admins will step in if we get out of hand — and that’s what makes this a safe place to hang out. We’re a pretty tolerant bunch with diverse backgrounds. The one thing we’re not tolerant of is the abuse of women and children in the name of religion.

  450. Anon @11:06 said: “Sis, snarky is OK here. It keeps people on their toes. But, hateful or hurtful is a different matter.”
    I said I was sorry.

    I’m from the Hildale/CC area too. It was just a little reference to the “why stop at one, when you can have four?” mentality. That’s all.

  451. Punctuation doesn’t bother me. It’s a non-issue. I just think it’s funny when I see these,,,, in the middle of a sentence written by someone from my hometown, which is known for it’s excesses and pluralities. I simply got a little chuckle out of the connection. I’m genuinely sorry if feelings were hurt.

    Anon@12:35 – I might know who you’re talking about. Did he marry an 18 (which, for them, is the new 16) year old girl last month?


    This article lists Ben “Ed” Johnson as the head of the Pringle Compound.

  453. Mistrial declared in Wisan trespass case

  454. TC, there have been no discussions on this board. Only the choir singing to itself. If anyone happens to post disagreements, they are immediately attacked an an attempt at character assasination is launched against the person.


    A former bishop of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is scheduled for a pretrial at 9 a.m. Thursday at the Tom Green County Courthouse.

    Fredrick Merril Jessop, 75, is charged with performing an illegal ceremony, a third-degree felony punishable by two to 10 years in prison and up to a $10,000 fine.

  456. Is he actually going to show up?

  457. Betty, STOP with the sarcasm !!!!!!!!!!

    Anonymous said this on August 31, 2011 at 9:11 PM

    I like having new blood here, also. It’s nice having new outlooks and new ideas. I especially like having folks connected with the Creek having a place to gather and make contact with similar folks and share insights. That makes all my efforts to support this blog over the years worthwhile in my mind. I post a lot less than I used to because there is an active and mostly healthy exchange that does not really need me to push it along. But I am here pretty much every day, sometimes several times a day, reading posts.

    The owners of the blog are active and will step in when someone is out of line. No one has elected you to be their newest assistant. In fact, I probably have a better idea, given the years of observing, what is going to be OK than you do. A little off topic chatter is fine as long as it is basically building community. No need to have a heavy hand when people are basically getting along. And any topic that is related to fighting polygyny and/or the corruption and racketeering surrounding it is in fact on topic.

  458. Sis, my Anon @11:06 comment was commending your snarkiness, not criticizing it. I’m sorry if that was not clear.

  459. anon 8:51

    “TC, there have been no discussions on this board. Only the choir singing to itself. If anyone happens to post disagreements, they are immediately attacked an an attempt at character assasination is launched against the person.”

    Really? No discussions? Where oh where on the internet ARE there discussions?

    You arent talking about ill bill’s cesspool are you?

    I’ve seen a number of folks get banned from here, every one of them earned it, if you disagree start a blog and have all the discussions you want.

    As if anyone would listen.

  460. Matthew Waller is keeping people up to date via twitter.!/waller_matthew Thanks Matthew

    Newspaper articles. Videos. People talking on message boards is one way to keep the story going.

    I am way to old and too stubborn to stop talkng. 🙂 If I offend anyone call me on it and use my name- Walton.

    But please make up a name or a number so I am not addressing all the anon.


  461. walton, I think it will be devastating when the truth comes out about Jeremy Johnson (if it ever does) and who was involved with him… and how/how much they were involved with him.

    I think it will be especially crushing to people in St. George, and mind-blowing to people in the state of Utah in general.

    Jeremy Johnson is just another scam artist in a state with a terrible history of scam artists and Ponzi schemes.

    But now a respected bank is about to become insolvent because of his (among others’) greed.

    Anonymous said this on August 31, 2011 at 11:17 PM

    I agree. More details I am sure will start showing up in different stories.

    Lots of scams being played by many. You have to wonder why one man would need 4-5 helicopters.


  462. If he had pneumonia then he might be in the hospital for a few days till the meds kick in

  463. Walton, I don’t always agree with you but you are coherent and respectful. I got no problem with you whatsoever. Just my 2 cents.

    And I agree, we have a plethora of Anons.


    This article lists Ben “Ed” Johnson as the head of the Pringle Compound.

    Proud Texan said this on September 1, 2011 at 6:38 AM

    Son of Larry and married to Suzy Blackmore (daughter of Jane and Winston.)

    I thought Warren “handled” Ben Johnson back in 2005 or 2006 for botching the effort to get fake ID’s for Warren and Naomie and Warren not liking the accounting of the monies.

    I guess when he couldn’t count on Jerald Williams or Stephen Harker, he went back to someone who has pretty much been at Pringle since it was purchased.

    Or maybe I’m confusing Larry’s Ben with Kendall Johnson’s son, William Benjamin. Warren used both Ben Johnsons when he first went on the run and he wasn’t always clear which one he was referring to (and sometimes he made it clear.)

  465. One good thing Willie has done for the few that fallow him. They all put their children back into public schools!

  466. To clarify Warren Jeffs’ medical condition – he is not in a medically induced coma. He has pneumonia and he has been intubated (tube placed in his trachea) and placed on a ventilator because he was not getting enough oxygen breathing on his own. He was sedated and given a powerful muscle relaxant to make him more comfortable with the tube in place because the tube is very uncomfortable. He is not in a coma, medically induced or otherwise.

  467. BiB how does someone catch pneumonia when it’s 100 degrees in your cell?

    Does Warren have 2 tubes stuck in him? One for food and the other for air?

  468. The sheeple they are building things 24 hours a day in Pringle compound & giving plates of baked cookies to pacify their neighbors ?? It’s not that way in CCA , the sheeple don’t care anything about time or sleep, they’ll build 24 hours a day & all night if needs be ! The county sheriff has been called a few times to stop the sheeple from building all night, & they haven’t gave any of their neighbors cookies to pacify them ! Many of us here like to sleep at night, just like you all, the sheeple here don’t seem to have a sense of TIME , I know I’ve called the county sheriff to have some sheeple stop building into all hours of the night ! Many sheeple here build things anyway, into the wee hours of the night & morning ! I guess we apostates don’t count as people ! twisted poster

  469. Then he’ll of course have an IV in him dripping antibiotics.

    OK he has 2 tubes and and IV.

    Can I raise him an enema?

  470. twisted poster, why don’t YOU take the all-night builders a plate of cookies? Maybe they’ll stop building for a while and snack on the cookies.

  471. “Can I raise him an enema?”

    Call and raise two enemas.

  472. Pneumonia is not caused by cold weather. It is most often caused by a bacterial or viral infection, but there are other possible causes including environmental pollutants. It is common in people who have a compromised immune system and in the very old. If he has been fasting, it could be that he has weakened his body to the point where it is more susceptible to infection.

  473. Do I glow now??

    LOL!!!! I needed that after work…

    Well here’s the deal….I like how he wants things back the way they used to be before Warren.

    Now I’m not saying I agree with the original religion at all. But Pre Warren is a huge start.

    I like how Will isn’t secretive. You may not believe me on that one….But from my knowledge (which I consider quite extensive thank you) he has done none of the stupid secretive stuff that Warren and Lyle have done. Secrets that they keep from their own people I mean. Will is very upfront and honest to the people listening to him. He is not claiming to be the prophet (what a relief!). He told me he isn’t even calling what he’s doing a crurch right now, just a program.

    The Warrenites are only being taught Warrens revelations in meetinghouse right now. And of course, whatever lyle wants to add to it. No bible, no book of mormon. Just warren and lyle.

    Will is going back to the scriptures, bible, BOM ect. So I think it’s a good sign that he is backtracking quite a bit….I see it as him wanting the truth…really going back to the simple stuff, the beginnings and loking for the truth. not what man says is the truth….or what the past few men have seen as the truth rather…

    I think he’s the best pick for whats happening out there right now. Considering the situation in the Crick is dire folks….Just Dire.

  474. Pneumonia is caused by bacteria or viruses and has nothing to do with the cold. He is on IV antibiotics and may be fed intravenously or via a tube inserted in his stomach or proximal intestine.

  475. Warren seems to have way too many close encounters with rubber hoses.

    Up his nose, in his neck, stuck in his arm.

    Its the making of a Sci Fi movie.

  476. Oh the enema too. Well, considering he doesnt have anything in his stomach, that one might come up empty.

    Hope he is fit and chipper for his trial coming up.

    Now that we have 8 convictions, the rest are getting sick real fast.

  477. Ariel, I trust your judgement and agree that Willie E. is a vast improvement over Warren. What worries me though is how he’s shadowed by Willie the Thug. You said Willie E. is upfront and honest to the people listening to him. That may be. BUT I don’t think Willie the Thug is capable of being upfront and honest with anyone. I don’t trust that guy one bit. He talks out of both sides of his mouth with a forked tongue. I’m not sure if Willie the Thug has latched onto Willie E. because he’s a “believer” or because he sees a possibility to have power and position in a new regime. And I’m not sure if Willie the Thug is a good influence on Willie E.

    Sorry, but I just don’t have a good feeling about Willie the Thug and think he’s phoney and untrustworthy.

  478. The major question with any leader, are they going to continue to hold people captive with their mind games?

    I dont see that changing much, jsut sayin.

  479. Define captive with mind games.

    If you mean captive with mind games, as in still handing their underage daughters over…hand all the money over, let the kids work for free…..abuse in general….I surely hope not.

    I AM AGAINST ABUSE!!! Of any and all kind.

    If you mean captive with mind games…as in captive to The Work, Honey, you’re just going to have to get used to it.

    The Work is their religion. There religion isnt abuse. I for damn sure will say that its a huge set up for abuse. But if consenting people want to belive they have to be a plural wife to get to heaven, and if they want to believe Joseph Smith was right, and Brigham Young was right and blah blah down to Lorin Wooley and LSJ, then fine. Whatever.

    It just as effed up as islam. But we don’t say all muslims are captive to mind games. Well maybe we do in our head lol, but we gotta deal with it even though it promotes polygamy and unequality to women.

    *sigh* you just have to have familes in it to know what I mean…


    C-M, have not figured out how to get back on WP, got a new computer:)

  481. Ariel, did Willie E. refer to his get-together as a “cottage meeting” or did he just call it a meeting?

  482. 🙂 I really wish that they could have cameras in the courtroom. But I must Matt Waller is picking up some really good high lights from attending all these trials. thanks Matthew Waller

    From the link above: Leifeste pointed out that marriage ceremonies the law could prohibit might include nuns’ marriages to Jesus or marriage ceremonies performed on stage in a play. He said the marriage ceremony in question in the indictment could also have been more of an engagement ceremony.

    How in the heck could anyone keep a straight face? The whole thing reminded me of Wally. Wally could come up with some interesting arguements. They were mostly shot down but the guy did try.

    So I went looking to see what Leifeste might be all about. I am thinking he best wear his “poop kickers” ( we call them something different here but I can’t use that word) into court. lol

    It is going to be a good trial. Define marriage. Define marriage in Wathers courtroom in the state of Texas.

    🙂 I really really love Texas


  483. oh, boy. not a real marriage ceremony? So, he was just pimping his 12 year old daughter out with a pretend marriage ceremony (for time and all eternity) and somehow….that’s BETTER????

  484. Nothing about a cottage. Just a meeting…”sunday school”. A mutual thing where everybody has a part in a in it. Not so much “listen to the good word today”.

    Being held at the old R&W construction place I hear.

  485. Ariel said: It’s just as effed up as islam. But we don’t say all muslims are captive to mind games. Well maybe we do in our head lol,
    *but we gotta deal with it even though it promotes polygamy and unequality to women*.
    No, we don’t.

    After reading Aayan Hirsi Ali’s book – Infidel (fantastic book,btw) I am no longer tolerant of Islam. We don’t have to tolerate a religion that is inherently abusive.

    I am liberal, but I think we have become so afraid of offending people that we have stopped drawing the line between tolerance and complacency. If a man hates women, it’s none of our business until he starts beating or bullying them. At that point, we have a social responsibility to stand up.

    I have no trouble saying that when a religion promotes mutilation of a girl’s genitals, it should take her place on the chopping block! I will shout that long and loud even if it makes some people shudder. Our tolerance is part of the problem.

  486. That is to say, our complacency is part of the problem. See? It’s easy to mistake the two.

  487. Ariel said this on September 1, 2011 at 6:36 PM
    “The Work is their religion. There religion isnt abuse. I for damn sure will say that its a huge set up for abuse. But if consenting people want to belive they have to be a plural wife to get to heaven, and if they want to believe Joseph Smith was right, and Brigham Young was right and blah blah down to Lorin Wooley and LSJ, then fine. Whatever.”

    Ariel this is my first reply to you. My name is Walton and I grew up in an area that it was ok to ask questions until I got answers. I was also taught to say things straight out . ( as we don’t have all day )

    If my boldness offends you just let me know and I will ask in a different way.

    I know the laws were not written so that people stopped believing in their faith. They were written to protect EVERYONE. From what I understand with this religion is that the “multiple wives” part could actually be taken care of during the sealings after death.

    Is that right?

    So with that in mind. With Polygamy being against the law why wouldn’t someone choose that path?


    If you reply to this one, I have another question if you don’t mind.

  488. It is going to be a good trial. Define marriage. Define marriage in Wathers courtroom in the state of Texas.
    If President Bush is in town, maybe he can step into the court room and give his definition. “God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Eve and Martha and Mary and Hannah”. Or, “marriage is between one man and one woman, what part of one don’t you understand? Because one less than two and 50 is too many” (ok, so I’m putting words in his mouth, but they’re not a stretch).

  489. One good thing Willie has done for the few that fallow him. They all put their children back into public schools!

    11 said this on September 1, 2011 at 3:35 PM

    Are you saying that the kids from all the FLDS or just a few families that are gathering with Willie? Are you talking Walking talking camera Willie R. Jessop? or Willie Edson Timpson Jessop?

    Do the two ever stand in the same room at one time?

    Just curious

  490. Speaking of Islamic polygyny and the status of women in fundamentalist Islamic societies – this new free e book has been released on the topic of women’s rights and the Zina Laws which govern and control women in Islam. Here is the link to download the free e book from the Women Living Under Muslim Law website :

  491. Thanks, BiB.

  492. Walton, I’m not Ariel, but I do know that those kicked out have put their kids in public school. Willie “Thugly” Jessop for sure has. I”m not totally clear on whether Will Timpson has physical possession of his kids or not.

  493. Here is a link to the e book referenced above on Scrbd :

  494. Please take the Discussion to General Discussion #63

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