The most pure man on earth …(General Discussion #61)

All of us following the FLDS goings on are still riding the wave of Warren’s conviction and life sentence, but what does this really mean for the rest of the FLDS community and the jurisdictions where the abuses are taking place?   Warren has been incarcerated for five years already, so it’s not like he’s suddenly being removed from his flock.   Warren has remained in control of the FLDS even from behind bars, and there’s little hope that will change now that he has been convicted (again) and handed a life sentence.

According to sources within the FLDS and related to Warren and Lyle Jeffs — Lyle called the community on Sunday and announced that Warren is the most pure man on earth and is worthy of the flock’s continued support.   End of discussion.   At least that is the end of the discussion for most of the flock.   They simply needed a leader with authority  to tell them what to think and how to respond to Warren’s latest travails.   The official dogma has been delivered by the acting Bishop and leader, Lyle Jeffs, who apparently speaks with Warren’s authority and on his command.

How long could it be before Lyle “pulls a Warren” and begins giving commands based on Lyle’s own sadistic desires and motives, claiming authority from the absent Warren?   I’m not sure the FLDS community is any better off with Lyle in the prophet chair.

Make no mistake.. It’s a blessing that justice has been delivered to Warren Jeffs, and we are all so thankful for the determined and committed men and women of Texas who made that happen.   But this ain’t over folks ….

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on August 10, 2011.

453 Responses to “The most pure man on earth …(General Discussion #61)”

  1. Rico. I wish.

  2. I’ve been thinking RICO for quite some time – note the Avatar

    – MANN act should kick in too…

  3. Senate Majority Whip Harry Reid’s call for the passage of a Senate bill and funding a Federal Task Force is probably again being contemplated or enacting the RICO Act owing to the sex trafficking across US/Canadian borders. Other polugamist groups have likesame criminal activitiies and abuses so higher authority is prerequisite to redress these secreted and entrenched systemic practices.

  4. Wow. 15,000 visits to this site yesterday!. I hope the interest is sustained.

  5. From Canada: http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20110809/rcmp-investigate-bc-polygamous-community-110809/#.TkHlGd-e7Gg.email

  6. Becuase of what he has been convicted of,what will happen to the flds faithful who write letters to warren, and include pictures of their young children? Will the cps be called in?

  7. But, with WJ in the slammer, forever, will the Feds still go after him? Since he is the lynch pin of the oranization, are they still willing to shell out the time and money involved? Granted, there are many others to choose from, but they still did it on WJ’s orders…anf a corrupt lifestyle. I hope they continue…they hinted at more charges during the trial. I just don’t wanna see them drop the ball just cuz FLDS public enemy #1 is behind bars. There’s far too much to do, yet!
    From what little I’ve heard/read about Lyle, he is just FLDS public enemy #2 in waiting.
    And that garbage about Lyle leaving the court, during testimony, cuz he wasn’t ‘priviledged’ enough [was that the word?] to hear/see the evidence is such bunk. Hear no evil. speak no evil…so he can lie to the flock that he doesn’t know about this stuff. Doesn’t look like much is gonna change in Short Creek or the ranch. I hope those in the crik that are reading here are spreading the word and starting to get help for themselves. They’re gonna need it.

  8. I would guess that there may be some awakenings in Short Creek. I would think that their neighbors in Centennial Park have to be tickled at where this “One Man Rule” axiom has taken the FLDS Church sheeple. Warren didn’t declare that Hildale/Colorado City was no longer the “Gathering Place for nuthin’, he felt the control slipping with each apostate and UEP Trust ruling. The EXODUS to Texas, was a direct response, to the slippage problem and Warren’s dream to more fully manifest “One Man Rule”. The “Lands of Refuge” gulags with sex Temples was perfect until the Law Enforcement Texas Rangers and FBI Agents ruined his vision.

  9. FLDS TEXAS: Hopefully that’s the path that will lead to getting those children to safety.

  10. Immediately had the same thought as FLDS admins when posting this new discussion — predict that Lyle will use the same ruse Warren did when wresting the mantle of prophet from his father. With Warren’s access to the outside now much more limited (re: phone calls, visitors) it will make it easier for Lyle to make decisions on his own and pass them along as Warren’s.

  11. No need to worry about those pesky little “keys” that are supposed to passed to the rightful prophet, right? Just ‘read my lips’ seems to work now. I’d love to see a rally of gentiles and apostates, in the park, gettiing out the word of the conviction. We’d probably all be arrested by the local illegal cops…but we’d be in good company. HA!

  12. The true prophet is PT Barnum. There is clearly a sucker born every minute.

  13. Here are more Warren Jeffs while on the run.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52363806-78/jeffs-arch-front-louis.html.csp

  14. Historically its been noted that indeed there are many users in the Shortcreek area and vicinity who visit the site.

    Regardless that Warren has banned such research and exposure to the “FLDS Truth”.

    ====================
    A good portion of these will be from Centennial Park and “apostates”, but I am sure there are lurkers here that are still “in”.

  15. Ugh…I sure hate to see the psychological abuse the naive are sent through when things start happening they don’t understand and made to feel impure, and that from someone who himself is probably the most debauched FLDS elder, not the most “pure”.

  16. Its gotta be rough, but no one can say they havent been warned.

  17. Its gotta be rough, but no one can say they havent been warned.

    Stamp said this on August 10, 2011 at 10:56 PM

    Stamp do you know if Ruth is ok?

    FLDS Texas admin. Would it be possible to put together a list of numbers and organizations together on a thread for those that might be seeking help?

  18. How anyone can believe a child molester is the purest man on earth is beyond me.

    I saw a suggestion in the Trib forums that somebody make copies of the pics of Warren and Naomi on the run, wearing their shorts and jeans and riding the Harley, and drop them from a plane over Shortcreek and the ranch.

    Oh, there is a really nasty Warren supporter on the Trib forums, I wonder who it is.

  19. This one came out of left field. And I thought I couldn’t be shocked anymore. WSJ’s PURE narcissism and hypocrisy knows no bounds !!

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/10/warren-jeffs-the-secret-statue-of-the-polygamy-cult-felon.html

  20. Come on guys. The vacation pictures? Really?

    And the statue?

    What can I say?

    The crap ( the word I want to use I am sure is not allowed) needs to end imo.

  21. http://www.dishonline.com/shows/136830-banished_the_lost_boys_of_polygamy Banished the lost boys of Polygamy

    The problems didn’t start with Warren.

    IF they were really making a statue of Warren it is in my opinion no different than the many statues that they have located thru out Utah.

    It is what it is imo.

    Doesn’t Lyle Jeffs have some charges coming his way? Doesn’t he get a turn sitting at the big table in a court room?

  22. Have you guys heard of this yet?

    http://gawker.com/5829542/polygamist-sex-freak-masturbates-15-times-a-day-in-jail

  23. ITA 120% with stickying a post here with info on how to leave if the blog owner wishes – and I hope they do.

    I’m active in a group working exactly these kinds of communication problems with another closed destructive ‘religion’. Is there any interest in a separate, private online venue specifically to brainstorm these issues?

    Oh, and I sure would like to see the revelation that decreed that wearing dark socks with sandals is the way to hide among the gentiles – that’s one weird look.

  24. Ruth is OK she has been writing a series of posts on texaspolygamy.blogspot.com – pretty much same as ever, and its a good window into the soul of how those folks feel about Warren.

    (none of this is Warren’s fault )

  25. http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/authorities+must+moving+Bountiful/5239806/story.html

  26. HA

    Willie says if they put up a three story statue of Warren, it will be toppled like Saddam Hussiens

    Also idolatry is verboten in the FLDS – oh wait, they dont follow their own rules anymore, they are flying by the seat of their pants!

    once again

  27. Here’s a report from DNews on Jeffs on how the FLDS remain loyal to that felonious profit Warren Jeffs.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705389029/FLDS-havent-lost-faith-in-Warren-Jeffs-even-though-they-likely-will-never-see-him-again.html

    IMO their heads are buried in the sand.

  28. Great Dickens
    I saw the post on Warren and his daily proclivities but I tried to track the source to something reputable and could not – until somebody else comes up with a “real” source I am going to assume it is a Wild Onion source.

  29. they can find the money to pay the lawyers and create a statue of a Golden Bull but they can’t pay their taxes…..

  30. One of the strongest programs to air to date on Doris Hanson’s “Whatloveisthis.tv” programs was episode 4.25 with Rebecca Kimbel, tonight’s program is completely devoted to the Warren S. Jeffs trial and saga, must see with streaming live(click on our right hand column for blogroll access). Sam Brower is still a planned guest but his “Prophet’s Prey” review on Hanson’s program has slid to Oct./Nov. timeframe. I’ll post it when it is finally scheduled.

  31. If fifteen a day is accurate, I believe he was not waiting to recharge after each act with these young girls. Truly serial rape in my opinion.

  32. I had heard the rumor from when he was in Utah prisons.

  33. Tony Alamo got 175 years and Warren Jeffs got 119 years. That should be a warning to any other religious leader who thinks of having sex with underage girls. Winston Blackmore, the AUB, the Kingstons, the CP group, etc have now been warned. Heed the warning or plan on being sentenced for over 100 years.

  34. http://www.fox13now.com/news/local/kstu-warren-jeff-warren-jeffs-niece-hopes-silence-ends-surrounding-abuse-20110810,0,2911003.story

    posted on twitter this morning from Ben Winslow

  35. What do we know about John Barlowe? Who are his wives? Who are Lyle’s wives?

  36. MarkShurtleff Mark Shurtleff
    @ @lizdehart I started going after #WarrenJeffs in 2001 & Utah convicted him of first degree felony BEFORE Texas.

    looks like Shurtleff is getting defensive

  37. The gosangelo paper has great pictures up.
    The first one is priceless, WJS looking defeated, the LE next to him smiling 🙂
    http://www.gosanangelo.com/photos/galleries/2011/aug/09/warren-jeffs-trial-day-13/

  38. I found this post, and have to agree with it. Perhaps this would help separate these cults from the LDS.

    It would go a lot farther than to just complain “they arent mormons!”

    ——————-

    “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day-Saints, Copyrighted their name in 1838.

    How does this group of Polygamists, assume the LDS name, add one word “Fundamentalist” and get away with it?

    If I start a Hamburger joint tomorrow and call it “Down Under” McDonalds or “Rocky Mountain” McDonalds, do I get away with it?

    Or maybe, “The Outstanding” Home Depot? Or “My” Office Max?

    We all know their Corporate Lawyers would shut this down, yesterday!

    I remember a group doing just that with McDonalds and were shut down from using just a similar name.

    Why does the LDS Chruch not protect their Brand, and go after this group for Copyright Infringement? They’ve only been using it since 1983. “

  39. I don’t want to be too prudish here but the heightened mores and stricter modesty observed by the FLDS Church and Warren’s inability to control his sexual expression to the jailer’s observations points up a classic condition/response syndrome. Warren’s inability to control his sexual urges demonstrates an unhealthy and habitual addiction/compulsion that exhibits either past traumas, undeveloped intimacy, latent loathing, unhealthful anxiety/shame, etc. Warren’s repressed religious ‘sinful’, ‘shame’, ‘lusting’, ‘nasty’, and ‘dirty’ actions suggest a sexual addictive behavior(s). Warren for all of his physical contact shows signs of failed intimacy, self-loathing, immature sexuality, etc.

    In short Warren needs some medical assistance for his compulsive behavior that has been observed by his jailers.

  40. It didn’t start with Warren or Rulon

    Before the “one man” rule Marion Hammon was also one of the FLDS leaders. He later joined with LeRoy Johnson to form the CPark.

    http://www.childbrides.org/sara_WIVB_Sara_speaks_at_Medaille_College.html

    Sara Hammon grew up in a polygamist community in Arizona. Her father, J.M. Hammon was a religious leader who had more than a dozen wives and fathered dozens of children. Sara broke away from the community and now lectures on the widespread abuse that exists behind the walls.

  41. Get your facts straight. Leroy Johnson didn’t form Centennial Park, Alma A. Timpson and Jonathan Marion Hammon did.

  42. During an in-person visit with the sheriff’s office in Big Lake yesterday, I was informed that WSJ’s “self-flagellation” was prevalent in Utah’s prison. During his transfer to Big Lake, Utah prison authorities reported to them that it was observed “a lot.” Hourly cell checks were conducted at Big Lake but no reports of such activity was logged while there.

  43. Maybe that 3-story metal statue of Warrant will end up being the site of the

    “ANNUAL BURNING PEDOMAN EXTRAVAGANZA”

    in Shortcreek.

    Dont tear it down, burn it annually!

    The Temple where he raped children?

    That they can tear down. Its a monument to child molesters!

  44. I agree that the serious repression in flds explains alot of why they are obsessed with “marriage,” childbirth, etc– It’s because they are denied so many reasonable, every-day outlets for their lives- no good books, no real art, not even “decent” movies, not nearly enough formal education, no normal internet usage, no individual expression, no variety in their games, no variety in music, no written expression that could be called healthy, or creative- everything is so strict and narrow that they become excessive with the few things they are allowed to do. I think Warren drugs himself with the one thing he was able to get away with since early childhood, as a spoiled child within a very twisted society, with corrupt parents who were also both grooming him for leadership and control because he had a certain cleverness.

    As far as flds overall sex and gender stuff goes, it goes without saying that when you condition the genders from birth year after year, you will get all of what is happening now..Females are seen as male property and breeding stock, as potential “wives” from the moment of birth. Males are taught they have to collect several females, and can only get to heaven with such collections and over-production of children. The women can’t get anywhere unless they buy into this nonsense. The constant repetition of these ideas has to go on and on for them to comply, for anyone to remain in such a group.
    The fear factor has to remain strong, the message of what the leaders want has to remain clear and focused and without let-up.The original set of Joseph Smith teachings, plus B Young, etc etc etc is a recipe for all this sexual nonsense and oppression. (amazingly, Smith condemns polygamy in a verse or two, but the fundamentalists just go with the writings where Smith makes a false commandment to practice it or be damned.)
    It’s far from being rocket science. It’s a recipe, a formula, that produced extremely predictable results. Just as the Catholic church’s long-running (and totally unbiblical) policy of requiring priests to remain unmarried has produced widespread perversion in their sexual behaviors. These unrealistic and unnecessary suppressions of something God designed in all people, the desire to love and be loved, to be secure and free from betrayal, to be in steady partnerships, families,etc, is badly perverted because of serious misinterpretation of the Bible. I say this because a correct understanding of the entire Bible is the basis for a very decent and strong society, contrary to what many think who simply don’t know what they think they know. The well-known polygamy of some Bible patriarchs was NOT commanded by God, the men just did it because it was culturally acceptable in that part of the world, especially with the infighting that often took place, the destruction of heirs to the throne, etc. But as a TEACHING, as an IDEAL,the Bible is consistent throughout as admonishing one man and one woman to be faithful for life to one another, with Jesus capping it all off as saying fornication alone (cheating on one’s sole partner) is the absolute only overarching excuse for divorce. I realize the domestic violence question seems ignored by Jesus, but it isn’t.- He always held men and women to the same standards and taught mercy, truth, justice, forgiveness, faithfulness, etc.

    One of the things I learned that has kept me going with my attempt to help in this mess, was discovering that the plyg groups teach that Jesus was a polygamist. That burned me so badly I dug right back into this fight. Jesus had a whole lot more to do than play the field and father numerous kids. He had the whole human race to redeem, and He did it on Calvary’s cross, after 33 years of an unimpeachable life. People often went to their deaths, and many still do, because they would not abandon their humble faith in the matchless grace of Jesus Christ, whose words and deeds were without precedent, and without rival ever since. He gave His sinless Life for us all, not just for a few thousand people who run from state to stae, defying our civil standards, paying their “prophet’s” enormous legal bills, ignoring his greed and lust, abiding by his cruel edicts, abandoning even their own young children when he tells them to. No, the Lord Jesus Christ has a far, far larger family of followers worldwide who know He was no polygamist.

    Why did lds end up in Salt Lake– i.e.,why were early lds driven out of state after state? It wasn’t “religous persecution,”- it was societal outrage! There are many writings about early lds outrages and misery, to be found in 1800’s archives, by those who witnessed it, and by those who tried polygamy, saw many good monogamous marriages ruined, etc. lds were embracing debauchery in a nation that once had a much stronger respect for Old and New Testament marital standards. (Jehovah, Moses, Jesus, and Paul NEVER at any time advocated polygamy. Polygamy was a practice in the ancient world, but, to emphasize, NEVER at any time even remotely ordered or commanded in the Hebrew or Christian Scriptures.
    However, lds teaches just the opposite in many years of its history.) An honest reading of both testaments of the Bible will never, ever give one person any verse to show that polygamy was an ordinance or requirement anywhere within its pages. If you are reading a “Bible” that tells you that it is, it is not an authorized translation or paraphrase by any leading scholrship association- it would have to be a sect production of some kind.) Those types of publications are, without fail, full of deliberate ommissions and additions and distortion by the sect founders and their co-horts.

    Add to that misinterpretation and twisting of the Bible, the made-up rules and false “scriptures” created by men with greed and lust as their motivation- to take more than their fair share, to oppress, to instill fear, while forcing others to go without. You will get exactly what is going on with all these abuses and perversions.

  45. they are kept as meek and weak slaves, any independent thoughts or words will be punished accordingly.

    American Taliban right in our backyard.

  46. Get your facts straight. Leroy Johnson didn’t form Centennial Park, Alma A. Timpson and Jonathan Marion Hammon did.

    Anonymous said this on August 11, 2011 at 12:42 PM

    Thanks Anon. My mistake. Your right it was Alma Timpson. I wonder if he is related to Wille Roy Timpson Jessop ( the guy who was called a thug by Shurtleff and was known to be the “earth mover” amongst the many he had “pushed around”, would not allow members into the meeting house, and I am not real sure but was he the one who blocked some from attending the funerals of loved ones?

  47. I can’t find the words to describe what I think of this article.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700170037/Column-Warren-Jeffs-a-monster-but-popular-culture-not-much-better.html

  48. Wrong again. You’re confusing Willie The Thug with William E. Timpson Jessop.

  49. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700233581/Washington-County-sends-dossiers-of-select-FLDS-members-to-Texas-officials.html

    William Roy Jessop
    • AKA “Willie the Thug” or “King Willie”
    • The most serious threat affiliated with the FLDS religion.
    • Reportedly has a passion for violence, weapons (legal and illegal) and explosives.
    • Accused of intimidating witnesses at Warren Jeffs’ trial in 2007.
    • “If anything remotely resembling violence or intimidation occurs, you can be fairly certain that William had a hand in it.”
    • Has acted as a spokesman for the FLDS Church after the raid on the YFZ Ranch.
    • Lives in Hildale, Utah

  50. Willie Roy Jessop is the guy we see on tv talking about how he has seen the light and he called Warren the pervert. He is also the one that got into it with Mike Watkiss and Sam Brower. And from what I understand he and Shurtleff had words in Canada?

    From the same link:

    William E. Jessop
    • “Respected as a bishop in the FLDS religion.”
    • “He is a very powerful man in the community, but I have never received any information that would indicate that he is involved in anything of a violent nature.”
    • “Could be involved in the decision-making processes due to his position of power.”
    • Lives in Hildale, Utah.

    Willie E. Timpson Jessop is the one Warren said should be the prophet but not the prophet. Willie E. Timpson jessop is the one who wanted to take over the Church and belongings.

    Flora is the one who can give some more details on Willie E. Timpson Jessop.

  51. If this all seems confusing, its not our fault. Actually Jessop is a Timpson?

    I dunno if he changed his name legal like or not.

    Who cares when you are wife and daddy swapping?

  52. SLTRIB has a collection of some of the tapes.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52370086-78/jeffs-wives-tells-audio.html.csp

  53. Rapid City Journal is reporting that the Pringle. SD enclave has been granted two new agricultural building construction permits, according to Custer County Planning Director David Green, with more future plans yet to be permitted. Last month unrepaired and sub-standard roadway along 20 Mile Road, that had not been repaired/improved by this FLDS Church group, was finally completed to the requirements of the Custer County Inspector. The buildings seem to be related to planned dairy operations and additional planned improvements are not known for what uses/purposes. Immediate neighbors to this Pringle enclave have voiced complaints of late night and a full work week (7 days) of construction.

  54. If this all seems confusing, its not our fault. Actually Jessop is a Timpson?

    I dunno if he changed his name legal like or not.

    Who cares when you are wife and daddy swapping?

    Anonymous said this on August 11, 2011 at 2:53 PM

    Only one of them is really a Jessop. The other is a Timpson that took the Jessop name.

    This should help explain it better.

    Willie R. talks like Willie E. should but I don’t ever remember hearing or seeing anything from Willie E. via video.

    Wallace J. kinda looks like a cross between Willlie E and Willie R. but he is Warrens brother.

    None of these guys can be confused with Wally B.

  55. Forgot the link: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1pAxJl_ZVeQJ:texaspolygamy.blogspot.com/2008/06/willie-jessop.html+willie+e+timpson+jessop&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

    I don’t know who owns this site. But there is a LOT of info here. There was a person named Uncle Duff that always treated everyone with kindness and his posts were always thoughtful.

    I didn’t know Ruth was still posting. I like Ruth. She has seen more than one person should in a lifetime. jmo

  56. Good article

    http://www.standard.net/stories/2011/08/11/texas-ranger-says-flds-raid-vindicated-jeffs-conviction#.TkRfWKKZ9kY.twitter

    I forgot about LE having to wait for 6 weeks to begin reviewing the information.

    If the 3COA and/or Texas Supreme Court knew then what they know now there is no way any of the children would have been sent home. I mean come on, group sex in the baptismal font!!!

  57. TAPES RELEASED

    http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-warren-jeffs-tapes-released-20110811,0,7270032.story

  58. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/sports/52370086-78/jeffs-wives-tells-audio.html.csp

    Courts Release Tapes

  59. walton, I attended Warren’s trial and met Deputy George. I commended him on what a great guy he is and I also told him that he has a lot of fans outside of Texas – meaning YOU (among many.)

    I would have given him a big hug from you, but the halls were really crowded and the timing was never right.

    Anyway, he smiled when I told him he is considered a hero.

    PS – he’s quite a gentleman, too.

  60. Oh, and I sure would like to see the revelation that decreed that wearing dark socks with sandals is the way to hide among the gentiles – that’s one weird look.

    so-ex-mo said this on August 11, 2011 at 5:28 AM

    Dark socks with sandals has been around for decades. You’ve obviously never been to Boca Raton, Florida.

  61. MarkShurtleff Mark Shurtleff
    @ @lizdehart I started going after #WarrenJeffs in 2001 & Utah convicted him of first degree felony BEFORE Texas.

    Hey AG Shurtleff, why are you tweeting about Warren Jeffs? Shouldn’t you and US Senator Orrin Hatch be spending your precious time battling the college football BCS?

    I saw some NFL football just a little while ago – YIKES!

    Times ‘a wasting, Mr. Shurtleff. College football will soon be upon us. Sometimes you have to pick your causes. And it looks like yours became the BCS – and the FLDS went by the wayside.

  62. In short Warren needs some medical assistance for his compulsive behavior that has been observed by his jailers.

    caJIM said this on August 11, 2011 at 10:09 AM

    In short, Warren needs some medical assistance for his compulsive behavior that has been overwhelmingly revealed and exposed by the state of TEXAS!

  63. During an in-person visit with the sheriff’s office in Big Lake yesterday, I was informed that WSJ’s “self-flagellation” was prevalent in Utah’s prison. During his transfer to Big Lake, Utah prison authorities reported to them that it was observed “a lot.” Hourly cell checks were conducted at Big Lake but no reports of such activity was logged while there.

    ad hoc said this on August 11, 2011 at 12:44 PM

    YIPEE, the women are on Prozac and the men are on Viagra/Cialis

    That says a lot!

  64. you all post on here about what WJ thinks, is doing, etc. I say, who gives a @$&!. I think we should spend our energy on what to do next to dismantle the cult, his and other offshoots of it. He will be replaced in a minute don’t kid yourself, if this cult is allowed to go back into oblivian in the media and public. There will be other psychos within that community that will gladly take over from Warrant.

    I’ve been an interloper on this site since it was created and I sometimes post. I mostly feel that its a site for people that know way more than me about this issue. But, I am a BC Canada resident and Bountiful has always disturbed me. I have in the past taken part in letter writing campaigns to our govt and whatever else.

    Thank God for Texas politicians, Courts and juries. I just heard a new media release that the RCMP have upped their investigation to at least 30 canadian girls that have been smuggled over the border to the states illegally and may be being kept against their will in the states. If it weren’t for what Texas did, this would not be happening in BC now. To all those over the years, both in the US and BC, that have helped how you could, and to those politicians and law enforcement that are doing something now, you are all heroes. Not all wars are fought in some foriegn land with guns.

  65. Anonymous said this on August 11, 2011 at 9:52 PM

    Your post warmed my heart. 🙂 Thanks

    Deputy George is a hero as are many in this story. Deputy George, Doran and the Rangers all made me feel safer.

    And then there are all those behind the scenes that we will never know the agency nor their names.

  66. This should help explain it better.

    Willie R. talks like Willie E. should but I don’t ever remember hearing or seeing anything from Willie E. via video.

    Wallace J. kinda looks like a cross between Willlie E and Willie R. but he is Warrens brother.

    None of these guys can be confused with Wally B.

    walton said this on August 11, 2011 at 4:10 PM

    walton, Wallace is an incredible (and brave) man! Plus he is handsome, has a certain “joie de vivre”, and undoubtedly loves his children.

    He has also managed to try to keep his sense of humor during Warren’s most recent “wrath of mass destruction” of his friends and family.

    As for Wally B (Bugden) – you’re right, none of these guys can EVER be confused with him.

  67. Anonymous@ 11:03PM said this: “I’ve been an interloper on this site since it was created and I sometimes post. I mostly feel that its a site for people that know way more than me about this issue. But, I am a BC Canada resident and Bountiful has always disturbed me. I have in the past taken part in letter writing campaigns to our govt and whatever else. ”

    Speaking for myself I am always happy to see another person take interest in the stories. And I am always glad for another persons view. I think there are 4-5 active Anonymous’s so I will call you Canada eh? 🙂

  68. Below is presumed archived FLDS theology, it hasnt been sourced.

    Could the author please provide the source of this information?

    Thanks – ADMIN

    /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    HOUSE OF THOMAS
    Marriage Rules (he married his 2 stepdaughters) To understand the mind set!

    PROVERB 21; 9, 21; 19

    FIRST A WOMAN NEEDS MARRIAGE , THAT IS THE NUMBER ONE ORDER OF
    GOD.,MARRIAGE IA AN OATH THAT CAN AND MUST NEVER BE BROKEN
    FOR ANY REASON
    EXCEPT BY THE HUSBAND FOR ADULTERY , AND ONLY IF HE WISHES.

    MALACHI 2 ; 14 – 16

    .

    THE OATH TAKEN IN MARRIAGE IF FOR EVER WILL BE GELD IN THE EVENT
    OF
    DEATH OR LEAVING . SO A PERSON OF REMARRIAGE WILL LIVE AND DIE IN
    ADULTERY HELL BURNING WILL BE THE PUNISHMENT .

    IF NO OATHS WERE TAKEN , THEN AT DEATH YOU ARE FREE TO DO AS
    YOU WILL .

    OATH IN MARRIAGE FOR ALL TIME CAN ONLY BE BROKEN BY THE
    HUSBAND , IF HE
    DIES THEN NO ONE CAN CHANGE THEM . IF A WIFE REMARRIES SHE WILL
    COMMIT
    ADULTERY .

    MARK 3 ; 24 – 25
    LUKE 10 ; 42
    1 PETER 3; 1
    EPHESIANS 5 ; 22 – 24
    HEBREWS 13; 17

    FAILURE TO COMPLY AND LIVE TO AGREEMENT WILL MEAN HELL AND
    LOST OF
    REWARD TO A HIGHER LEVEL IN HEAVEN .

    MATTHEW 19 ; 8 – 12
    NUMBER 30 ; 6 – 8

    FOR HUSBAND HAS POWER TO SEAL , UNSEAL , REFUSE FORGIVENESS ,
    BREAK OR
    KEEPS OATHS . JESUS WILL NOT GO OVER THE HUSBAND HEAD IF HE
    WISHES NOT TO .
    SO THE ECT .

    LUKE 6 ; 48
    1 CORINTHIANS 11; 9

    MARRIAGE IS A FULL TIME JOB , MUST TAKE THE GOOD AND BAD AND
    NEVER QUIT .

    HOMES ARE
    HOUSE OF ORDER .

    WIVES MUST ALWAYS REMEMBER TO ONLY OBTAIN A HOUSE OF ORDER
    WHEN THE
    IS THERE OR GONE IT IS A SIN IF SHE LETS IT GET DESTROYED .
    HOW CAN A WIFE RULE OTHERS IN THE KINGDOM IF SHE CAN NOT DO HER
    OWN
    HOME .
    DRESSING

    1 PETER 3 ; 3 – 6

    IN MARRIAGE THE DRESSING OF ALL WIVES IS VERY IMPORTANT !

    MISC , WRITING CONT.

    AL
    WOMAN ? FOR SHE NOW WILL BE A WHORE FOR TH.

    FOR JESUS SPOKE IN MARRIAGE ALL THINGS ARE CLEAN AND IN AL
    WOMAN’S
    BEAUTY IS FOREVER .

    WIVES MUST NOT EV
    GENESIS 4 ; 19 ; 16 ; 1 – 6

    THGOD , IF A
    WIFE DIES OR LEAVES THEN

    FILL THE CARING OF HIS CHILDREN .

    MISC . WRITING CONT .

    IN REGARDS TO CLOTHING , ANY KIND THAT LOOKS MALE WILL NOT BE
    ALLOWED
    S!!

    DO CORRECT A HUSBAND IN SIN , YOU MAY TELL HIM THAT YOU THINK HE
    IS
    , GOD WILL GRAB HOLD OF THE HUSBAND
    AND SET HIM STRAIGHT .

    MARK 10 ; 6

    DO NOT FORGET THE HOLY POLE OR LEVEL OF COMMAND !

    GOD , JESUS (church) , MAN , WOMAN

    MARK 8 ; 38
    GENESIS 3 ; 7

    IN REGARDS TO
    LUKE 17 ; 35
    LUKE 10 ; 36
    LUKE 16 ; 15
    LUKE 13 ; 5
    JOHN 14 ; 1 – 2
    IF YOU UNDERSTAND TIME IS COMING TO AN END OR THAT YOU CAN DIE
    AT ANYTIME
    , WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO BE LAZY AND DEFY GOD NOW ??
    HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO YOU IN YOUR MARRIAGE THAT YOU ARE
    WILLING TO
    LOOSE ALL YOU HAVE NOW ??
    WHY DID YOU NOT LOOSE YOUR SOUL LONG AGO , IT SEEMS STUPID TO
    DO IT NOW !!!

    WHEN YOU DECIDE SOMETHING , ARE YOU PLANNING IT FOR YOUR OR
    YOUR
    SELF ?
    LUKE 8 ; 17
    DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT GOD HAS ALREADY KNOWN YOUR ANSWER ,
    BUT GIVES
    YOU THE CHANCE TO FIX IT ??

    YOU CANNOT BE SAVED BY ME , IF YOU DOING YOUR DUTIES
    AS A WOMAN AND WIVES .
    SO , TO SAVE YOURSELVES DO YOUR WORKS , BUT I WILL GET MY
    CROWN FROM MY
    WIVES , THIS I NEED FOR YOUS TO DO FOR MY CROWN , FOR IT LIES IN
    YOUR HANDS !!

    SINCE GOD HAS CHOSEN US , THEN LET US BE HAPPY IN THE ROLE WE
    EACH HAVE ,
    FOR WE HAVE BEEN SHOWN MERCY FROM GOD AND BLESSED FOR WE
    CAN NEVER
    WORK OUR WAY INTO HEAVEN EXCEPT THREW THE GRACE OF OUR
    FATHER .
    THEREFORE BE SUBJECT UNTO YOUR LORD AND OBEY ME ALSO .

    LUKE 16 ; 18
    LUKE 18 ; 20
    1 TIMOTHY 5 ; 13

    THE THINGS SATAN WILL TRY AND DO TO YOU TO CATCH YOU ARE AS
    FOLLOWS .

    HAVE YOU DISOBEY YOUR GOD !

    GET YOU TO COMMIT ADULTERY WITH A MAN , SINCE THIS SIN WOULD BE
    UNFORGIVABLE , THIS WOULD BE THE BEST .
    ANOTHER IS GOING AROUND TALKING ABOUT SOMEONE GOSSIP AND
    BEAR FALSE
    WITNESS .
    HATE YOUR ENEMIES
    BREAK YOUR VOWS AND OATHS IN MARRIAGE AND TO GOD !

    IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT ALL WIVES OBTAIN THE STATUS OF SARAH
    FOR SHE
    SHOULD BE YOUR EXAMPLE , FOR SHE IS YOUR MOTHER YOU SHOULD
    HONOR YOUR
    HUSBAND AND LIKE BUT
    WISH TO HUMBLE YOURSELF AND DO SOMETHING FOR HIM YOU DO NOT
    LIKE .

    FOOLED BY THEM , IF GOD NEEDS TO CORRECT YOU HE WILL USE YOUR
    LORD OR HE
    WILL DO IT HIMSELF IF I AM NOT HERE . YOU STARTED SOMETHING YOU
    SAY YOU
    AGREE TO , THEN WHY WOULD YOU CHANGE NOW ?

    LUKE 21 ; 8
    LUKE 12 ; 10
    MATTHEW 3 ; 29
    1 PETER 4 ; 10 – 11

    NO MATTER HOW STRONG THEY MAY SOUND TO CHANGE YOUR WAYS DO
    NOT FALL
    FOR IT .
    IF YOU DO BREAK
    HOUSE OF THOMAS RAND !!

    PROVERBS 31 ; 10 -31
    PROVERBS 12 ; 4

    IN THIS SECTION I WILL TRY AND EXPRESS THE VIEWS OF HOW ALL WIVES
    WILL RUN HER
    HOUSE AS I THE LORD REQUIRE .

    ALTHOUGH THIS SUBJECT MAY NOT BE IN ORDER WIVES SHOULD READ IT
    ALL AND OFTEN
    TO FIND WRITINGS IN REGARDS TO EACH SUBJECT .

    THE HOUSE OF THOMAS IS GIVEN UNTO THE WIVES BY GOD AND THERE .
    IT WILL
    SHOW HONOR TO GOD AND ME THE LORD OF IT AT ALL TIMES
    NOTHING ABOUT IT . I

    THE HOUSE OF THOMAS MUST ALWAYS HAVE ONLY SIMPLE THINGS IN IT ,
    AND WIVES MUST
    SEE
    JAMES 5 ; 23

    THINGS THAT MAKE LIFE SIMPLE MUST BE USED WITH GREAT CAUTION ,
    REMEMBER YOU
    HAVE LIVED IN PLACES WEAR YOU HAD VERY LITTLE NO NEED TO START
    NOW
    WIVES WILL KEEP THE HOUSE CLEAN AL THE TIME .LET THE PRIDE OF HER
    DOING SO BE A
    CROWN UNTO HER HUSBAND .

    UNLESS A WIFE HAS SOMEONE LIVING WITH THEM THAT NEEDS TEACHING
    SHE MUST CARE
    FOR HERSELF ONLY .
    CHILDREN DO NOT NEED LEARNING FROM SOMEONE ELSE . BUT FROM
    THE MOTHER SO
    DO IT . WIVES ARE MOTHERS TO ALL THE CHILDREN IF YOU HAD THEM OR
    NOT

    MISC. WRITING CONT.

    PSALM 128
    1 PETER 3 ; 7
    PROVERBS 9 ; 13 – 14
    1 PETER 3 ; 1

    THE HOUSE OF THOMAS MUST BE ALL TIMES . SINCE THIS IS THE CHURCH
    OF
    JESUS CHRIST AND SPIRITS ARE NEEDED TO BE PRESENT IN THE HOME .
    THE HOME WILL
    NOT ACT AS A CHURCH OF THE FAMILY WAYS .

    THE HALL DAY , NO LAZY
    PEOPLE . ANY FOUL MOUTHS OR TALK THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE GOD OR
    .

    AND AS ABRAHAM
    HAD WITH SARAH .

    1 PETER 5 ; 6
    LEV . 20 ; 9
    TO MY WIVES LEAH & HEATHER, I REWRITE THIS BOOK IN ORDER FOR ALL
    OF US TO BE ABLE TO CLIMB HIGHER IN THE LORDS KINGDOM.

    WE CAME TO THIS LAND WITH GREAT HOPES THAT WE WOULD BE ABLE
    TO SERVE
    THE LORD IN A GREAT WAY:

    WE HAVE FAILED IN THIS VERY MUCH NOW WE HAVE BEEN GIVING A
    CHANCE
    TO RESTART OUR PROMISE TO THE LORD,
    OFF VERY MUCH IN TEACHING AND FOR THIS REASON I WILL REWRITE MY
    BOOK AND I PRAY THAT IT WILL DO THIS HOUSE A LOT OF GOOD.
    NO ONE COULD EVER FIND SUCH LOYAL A OBEDIENT WIVES AS THE LORD
    HAS LAID UPON ME.

    AS YOUs READ THIS BOOK LET THE SPIRIT OF GOD COME UPON YOU,
    SO THAT YOUR SPIRIT COMES ALIVE AND MY HOUSE COMES UNDER
    ORDER
    AND THEN WE SHALL CALL ONTO THE LORD TO COME DWELL WITH US AS
    HE DID
    BEFORE.

    NEVER FORGET MY CROWN LIES IN YOUR HANDS AND AS YOUS HAVE
    DONE
    ME WELL I PRAY YOUS WILL REWARD ME TO A HIGHER LEVEL.

    AS THE TIME OF THE LORDS RETURN COMES CLOSER LET US PREPARE
    MORE
    TO MEET HIM SO THAT ALL ETERNITY WILL BE OURS AND WE SHALL
    DWELL FOR
    ALL TIMES TOGETHER.

    LET US NOT LOOSE WHAT WE HAVE PRAYED FOR SO CLOSE TO THE END.

    LET US PREPARE THE CHILDREN TO MEET THE LORD AND LET US HAVE
    MERCY
    ON THOSE THAT CHOOSE SATINS PATH.

    LET US SPEND OUR REAMING TIME SEVERING THE LORD WITH FULL HEART
    NOT JUST WONDER IN DARKNESS.

    LET US PREPARE AS ONE AS IT WAS WHEN WE WERE MARRIED LET THERE
    BE NO DIFFERENT WAYS.

    LET US SHARE IN ALL JOY PAIN SUFFERING AND JOY AS ONE.
    LET US SHARE EACH OTHER AS IF WE WERE ONLY ONE.

    LET US PREPARE TO DEFEND THE OTHER IF ONE SHALL GET WEAK IN ANY
    MATTER.

    LET THIS HOUSE BE KNOWN TO ALL SPIRITS THAT THIS IS THE HOUSE
    OF THE LORD.

    LET US INVITE THE LORDS SPIRITS TO DWELL WITH US AND REST.

    LET US RETURN HATE WITH LOVE AND UNDERSTANDING.

    LET US SHOW THE LORD OUR STRENGTH UNTO HIM AND OUR FAITH.

    LET US FIND OUR FAULTS AND CORRECT THEM LET US EACH HELP.

    L
    2) NO WIFE WILL EVER LIE !

    3) NO WIFE WILL EVER COMMIT ADULTERY!!
    6) A WIFE
    7) ALL WIVES WILL SHARE IN THE HOME DUTIES.

    8) A WIFE WILL NEVER STAY MAD AT ANYONE IN THE HOME NO MATTER
    WHOS FAULT IT WAS !!!!

    9) A WIFE WILL CARE FOR EACH OTHERS CHILDREN THEY WILL DO SO IN
    GLORY
    FOR THE CHILD BELONGS TO THEIR GOD

    11) A WIFE WILL HUMBLE HERSELF AT ALL TIMES.

    12) ALLTHAT THE OTHER CAN PERFORM HER BEST DUTIES.

    13) WIVES WILL TEACH AND KEEP THEIR CHILDREN IN ORDER AS GOD HAS
    14) WIVES WILL STAY TOGETHER
    27) A WIFE WILL ONLY WANT MORE FOR THE OTHER

    37) WIVES WILL RUN THE HOUSE OF THOMAS ON THEIR OWN. THEY WILL
    FIND WAYS
    TO MAKE IT BETTER AND

    MATT:19;8-12
    THE HUSBAND HAS THE POWER OF HIS WIVES TO MAKE /VOID ANY AND
    ALL LAWS
    OF OATHS AND VOWS ONLY IF THE WIFE HAS MADE ANY VOW OR OATH
    THEN THE
    HUSBAND HAS UNTIL SUNSET OF THAT DAY TO CANCEL IT OR ALLOW IT
    TO BE
    MADE IF THE WIFE MADE A VOW OR OATH OVER A YEAR AGO THE
    HUSBAND FINDS
    OUT ABOUT IT NOW THEN WILL HE HAVE UNTIL SUNSET TO CANCEL OR
    ENFORCE IT.

    NUM.30;6-8
    UNDER NO CONDITIONS WILL GOD EVER GO OVER THE HUSBAND HEAD
    AND
    ALLOW A WIVES VOW OR OATH TO BE KEPT IF THE HUSBAND DOES NOT
    WANT IT TO
    BE KEPT.
    IF THE HUSBAND SHOULD DIE THEN ALL VOWS AND OATHS CAN NEVER BE
    CHANGED IF THE WIFE ON HER OWN MAKES NEW ONES THEY CAN NOT
    HAVE
    ANYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT THE HUSBAND HAS
    IF NO OATH OR VOWS WERE EVER GIVING FOR ALL TIME THEN THE WIFE
    CAN
    REMARRY AND NO SIN WILL COME UPON HER.

    NUM.30;3-15
    IF A WIFE LOOKS FOR A WAY TO BREAK A VOW OR OATH SHE WILL GET IT
    BROKEN

    WIVES ARE TO BE VERY CAREFUL IN ALL TIMES TO COME. DO NOT LET
    SATAN COME
    UPON YOU ARE TRY TO MAKE YOU CHANGE YOUR VOWS AND OATHS.
    THIS WILL BE
    WILL EXPECT YOU TO FULFILL THEM AND IF YOU DO YOU

    WIVES DUTIES

    GEN.3;23-25
    A WIFE CAME FROM THE BONES OF A MAN. GOD MADE HER TO BE A HELP
    MATE.
    HE MADE THEM BOTH NAKED. THIS WAS PLEASING TO GOD.
    FOR THIS REASON ALL
    EPH.5;22-23
    IF A WIFE FAILS TO LIVE THIS LAW SHE ONLY PUTS SHAME UNTO GOD AND
    HER
    HUSBAND.
    WOMAN WAS MADE TO SERVE GOD AND HAVE CHILDREN TO GIVE GLORY
    UNTO
    GOA WOMAN WILL BE CHARGED BY GOD UNWORTHY IF SHE DOES.

    1PETER #:!
    HEB. 13

    HEB.13;4

    A WIFE WILL TEACH HER CHILDREN AS GODS WAY CHILDREN MUST OBEY
    CHILDREN. IF A CHILD BECOMES

    WIVES WILL WEAR A DRESS IS ALSO IN BEAUTY
    WHEN SHE LIVES THE LAW OF SARAH. NO WIFE WILL EVER CUT HER HAIR.
    FOR THIS
    IS HER CROWN TO GOD. NO WIFE WILL WEAR PANTS OR CLOSE OF MAN
    TYPE.
    BUT SHE CAN WEAR THINGS OF HER HUSBAND. FOR HIM AND TO

    WIVES HAVE THEIR SHINNING BEAUTY WHEN THEY LIVE FOR THERE
    HUSBAND AND
    GOOD. NO MAKE UP OR DRESS CAN EVER REPLACE THE SMILE ON THE
    HUSBAND
    AND GOD IF SHE DOES HER DUTY FIRST.

    1COR.7;4
    THE WIFE HAS POWER OVER HER BODY OR ANYTHING ELSE. THE DESIRE
    THE HUSBANDS BODY EVERY CHANCE SHE CAN. FOR THIS WILL KEEP THE
    HUSBAND HAPPY AND NOT WANTING OF THE WORLD. BRAIDED HAIR OOR
    CLOTHES UNLESS ALL TIMES FOR THIS IS IN DELIGHT UNTO GOD AND THE
    HUSBAND.

    PSALM 128
    BLESSED IS EVERY ONE THAT FEARETH THE LORD. FOR THOU SHALL EAT
    THE
    LABOR OF THY HANDS. HAPPY SHALT THOU BE. AND IT SHALL BE WELL
    WITH THEE.
    THY WIVES SHALL BE FRUITFUL VINES BY THE SIDES OF THY HOUSE.
    THY CHILDREN LIKE OLIVE PLANTS ROUND ABOUT THY TABLE.
    BEHOLD THAT THUS THAT THE MAN BE BLESSED THAT FEAREATH THE
    LORD.
    THE LORD SHALL BLESS THEE OUT OF ZION AND THOU SHALT THE GOD
    OF
    JERUSALEM ALL THE DAYS OF THY LIFE. YEA THOU SHALL SEE THY
    CHILDREN’S
    CHILDREN AND PEACE UPON ISRAEL.

    THE ABOVE WILL THE PATH ALL WIVES WILL TAKE AND LIVE BY DAY BY
    DAY.

    TITUS 2;5
    WIVES WILL BE DISCREET CHASTE KEEPERS AT HOME GOOD OBEDIENT
    TO THEIR
    OWN HUSBAND THAT THE WORD OF GOD NOT BE BLASPHEMED !!!!!

    1TIM:2;11-14
    A WIFE WILL NOT TEACH EXCEPT WHAT WAS TAUGHT HER BY THE
    HUSBAND. A
    WIFE MAY GIVE HER IDEAS TO

    1TIM 5;all
    THIS CHAPTER DEALS WITH A LOT OF WIVES IDEAS AND WAYS TO LIVE
    UNDER GODS
    LAWS.

    A WIFE WILL NEVER SHOW OFF SHE WILL ALWAYS ACT VERY HUMBLE IN
    ALL
    THINGS LOOKS TALKING WALKING ETC.
    SHE WILL ALWAYS SHOW GOD HER KINDNESS.

    IF THE HUSBAND DIES ALL WIVES WILL JOIN TOGETHER AND CARRY ON AS
    THE
    HUSBAND TAUGHT. WIVES WILL DO WHAT EACH ONE HAS BEEN BLESSED
    IN. WIVES
    WILL DO THIS UNTIL THE END COMES.
    ANY WIFE THAT FAILS TO CARRY ON

    1TIM2;9
    ALL WIVES WILL ADORN THEMSELVES IN MODEST APPEAL WITH
    SHAMEFACEDNESS
    AND SOBRIETY NOT WITH BRAIED HAIR OR GOLD OR PEARLS OR COSTLY
    ARRAY:
    BUT WHICH BECOMETH WIVES PROFESSING GODLIN GREED.

    TITUS 1;16
    TITUS 2;4

    THEY PROFESS THAT THEY KNOW GOD BUT IN THY WORKS THEY DENY
    HIM
    BEING ABOMINABLE AND DISOBEDIENT AND UNTO EVERY GOOD WORK IS
    REPROTATE. [REJECT]

    ALL WIVES WILL TEACH
    ALL WIVES WILL NEVER FORGET THAT THE HOME IS THE HOUSE OF GOD.
    AND THE CHURCH OF CHRIST. THEY WILL KEEP THE HOUSE IN ORDER.

    TITUS;2;5
    THE LORD OVER THE WIVES AND .

    WIVES WILL FIND THE ANSWER AND WAYS TO DO THE FOLLOWING.
    HOME CARE CHILDREN PRAYERS SERVING
    CHURCH TEACHING HELPING

    THE ABOVE WILL BE FOUND IN THE BIBLE AND THE BOOK OF THOMAS.

    1TIM.4;7
    AT THE END OF TIME A WIFE WILL BE ABLE TO SAY THE FOLLOWING.
    “I HAVE FOUGHT A GOOD FIGHT I HAVE FINISHED MY CORSE I HAVE KEPT
    THE
    FAITH”

    THERE ARE LOT OF LAWS WIVES MUST LIVE BY. BUT IN THE END THE
    BE WELL
    YOU ALL CAN DO IT. JUST PRAY UNTO THE LORD FOR STRENGTH AND
    HELP.
    FOR HE WILL BE THEIR IF YOU ARE HIS CHOSEN

  69. My computer had a HARD CRASH and random FLDS items were saved. Some back up disks survived, but not what I once had! Only a few activist might have saved my stuff.

    So in case it goes down again, someone out there might want to save this stuff.

    Ben Bistlines threat from 1-21-04 before the Ross Chatwin event;

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    (front cover page of Veiled threat received by Ben Bistline, 2 days before the 1-23 Press Conference)

    To; Benny Bistline

    I know you’re an evil man and you’re not a friend to the righteous in Colorado City or the
    UEP but sometimes God uses the evil to do a righteous purpose. You stand for apostates
    and gentiles and you as well as yor kind should take this letter as a warning. Hopefully after
    reading this gentiles and you as well as your kind should take this letter as a warning.
    Hoepefully after reading this the gentiles will understand our point of view and have a little
    more respect for us. When you take on Gods chosen people you are playing with his fire.

    Page 1

    I’m from Colorado City and that means that you view me as a polygamist. We don’t believe
    in polygamy. We believe in plural marriage which is the new and everlasting covenant of marriage
    as laid down by the prophet Joseph Smith. The difference is one is commanded of God and
    the other is not. I have a job to do. My job is to protect the prophet Warren Jeffs and the Lords
    chosen people from you cockroaches and scum. I’m sick and tired of the harassment we get here.
    It seems like every other day you gentiles and apostates are looking down out throats trying to
    make trouble. Why don’t you just all leave us alone! The truth is, you’re jealous because you can’t
    have what we got. We got preisthood and that makes our women and children obedient to us. We
    live a different more religious way of life and you shouldn’t hate us because of it. You’re green with envy
    because your wifes argue and will leave you if you don’t bow and scrape to their needs. Your children
    don’t obey you. All they want to do is watch TV and play computer games. You gentiles don’t know
    how to direct women and children because you don’t know about priesthood. You don’t understand
    what it takes to be the priesthood leader of a family. We have to raise our children like calves in a stall.
    Why do you think we don’t allow gentile women as wifes or allow gentile people to move into our
    town. We work with our children everydat to make sure they don’t know to much about you. You’d
    just destroy them in a matter of minutes. That’s why were glad our prophet commanded us not to
    go to the public school. We don’t want our children being asked stupid questions that’ll just destroy
    there lives. To uch worldly influence destroys children. That’s why we make our children dress
    with long dresses with jeans underneath them. The long clothes and all make them stand out so that you gentiles will leave them alone. Besides they’d never talk to you because they know that all you
    people are servants of Lucifer and that given half a chance you’d put your foot in the door and pry
    them wide open to sinning. That’s another reason why you’d better leave us alone. You can’t have
    these girls. They know better than to be associating with you all. You gentiles and apostates have
    no business here at all. Under the constitution we’re guaranteed our religious freedom. We can
    do what we want here and you people should have nothing to do about it. We should be allowed
    to set up our own goverment and laws. The courts did not follow the headings of God and let us use
    and let us use our own laws. The courts accused us of trying to make a lawless society. The
    prophecies will come true to fix it. There won’t be a yellow dog here to greet us or stand in our way
    when it comes time for the prophet to rule this world. Besides we already control everything here in the
    town ayways. You accuse us of marrying our cousins and relates. The Lord tells us who to marry
    not you. Rodney did the right thing. When it comes to choices you have to choose to do what the
    prophet wants even if you are sent to prison. The thing here is obedience. We’re obedient to our
    prophet and in turn our wives and children are obedient to us. But that’s none of your business
    because it’s our religion!!! The world frowns on us for living our religion. But were not worried
    because God will protect us. We believe in following God’s laws. Our prophet tells us that God’s
    laws are more important than the laws of the land and so we choose to not follow the laws of the land.
    It doesn’t matter what the people are doing here. It’s a matter of principle. God brought these children
    into the world and he’ll do with them what he wants. God raised these people up for this purpose.
    That’s what the whole plan of Colorado City and the UEP is about. The UEP makes it so that if
    someone disobeys the prophet then he can make them leave so they don’t destroy the lives of
    our children. These things are to keep our children protected. Our children must be protected from
    the evil ways of gentiles. We can’t have people hanging around giving our children stupid ideas.
    Our children are scared of the world. They don’t want to leave this town because they can see the
    ruined

    page 2

    mess their lives would be if they do leave. God will curse them and destroy them. We’ve seen it time
    and time again that when people leave this town, satan possesses them and they go crazy. You
    gentiles don’t have a right to get in the way with the way we raise our children or our women. The way
    we do things here is part of our religion and the constitution guaranteed freedom of our religion. You
    should know we don’t force our children to do things like getting married anyway. Uncle Sam says in our priesthood meeting that we tell the world that we don’t force marriages. Is what we do is invite people
    to obey. The prophet then tells them which guy to marry. There’s no force involved. People can choose
    to disobey. They have the right. Without perfect obedience we do not have priesthood. Obedience is
    the first law of heaven and when you disobey you break the first law of heaven. When they disobey
    they make a choice and the Lord tells the prophet to tell them to leave town. He has the right to forbid
    them to ever speak to even their families again. If a family chooses not to obey the prophet then they
    choose to disobey. If they choose to disobey then they make the choice to leave. They weren’t
    forced because they that choice. And there house wasn’t theirs anyway it was the Lords. You see if
    they choose to disobey they turn themselfes over to Lucifer who will destroy them. The prophet says
    the only hope for a person who disobeys is BLOOD ATONEMENT. He hasn’t told anybody to kill
    anybody else. He’s working very hard to get us to a point where God will clean up the world. That’s
    why you will see all of the stuff happening here in our town. He’s destroying the seeds of contention. If
    we are good enough then we’ll get to help the prophet do his work. Then God will be able to order the
    destroying angels to go forth and they will kill off all the wicked. The only way you’ll be saved is if
    you’re wearing the priesthood garmets and if you don’t have the markings of the beast on you. We
    are ready to answer the call when our prophet asks it. He said it will be the young that will do this. We
    young priesthood boys have the most special privilege of getting to serve our prophet in the last days
    that are upon us. We meet in special priesthood meetings to learn the special things that are special.
    This is the greatest time for a priesthood man to be alive. The prophet has promised us that the
    destructions are here and that we will get to witness them.

    I have a message for the person who wrote the letter in the newspaper. Uncle Louis supports our
    prophet with all his heart. You did a most evil of things in trying to stir up trouble with us. I hope you
    know the penalty for making false prophecies. If you really did have a dreamthen you are the most
    inspired man of satin I’ve ever known. God will reveal to the prophet who you are. I shudder to think
    what will happen to you. If I were you I would be shaking in my shoes with fear for your life because the
    Lords going to take your life. You have brought down a scourge and condemnation upon yourself. At
    this point there’s no place you can hide that the prophet can’t find.

    The best plan for you gentiles and apostates is to leave us alone. It doesn’t matter what you do
    cause the Lord will deal with you shortly. The more you gentiles bother us the harder you are going
    to get judged and the more terrible will be your destruction. We down to every single last man in
    Colorado City will gladly die to protect our prophet. As the mouthpiece of God on this earth we will
    do whatever the prophet commands us to do to protect the work of God. The best advise I can give
    you is to stay away from us and let us do Gods will as revealed to us by Gods prophet Warren Jeffs.

  70. walton said this on August 11, 2011 at 11:25 PM

    Walton – “anonymous Canada eh” it is. thanks for the moniker and for your email. I’m elated by the news that RCMP are “going in” . Finally, people in power, both in US and Canada, are looking at the flds as criminals instead of as a church. Yee haw, I personally know boys that were kicked out of their homes by the flds as young teenagers and pretty much became homeless on the streets of Vancouver. There are many many victims and stories. The “establishment’ is listening for now. Let’s make sure they keep listening, whatever that takes.

  71. fincenmib said this on August 12, 2011 at 12:59 AM , and others

    You miss the point entirely. No one cares what you think of the prophet, what you think about God or what you think about the scriptures you read. You can think and do whatever you want in the name of religeon. And we’ll all do that too thank you very much. What anyone with any humanity who has not been, either (a) brainwashed by a psycho, or (b) a psycho themselves, will tell you is that NO religeon is authentic if it makes victims out of some and gods out of others. The day that any religeon tells me that some men are made more “special” in the eyes of God than others, you lose me, and most other, sane people, But good luck with that, I hope the God you know teaches you a lesson, if he’s anything like the God I know, he will.

  72. Dear Fincemib, If Warren Jeffs was truly the most pure man on Earth just send the angels that will come to free him to Huntsville, Texas. I think they’ll find him in the Byrd unit and they can take him and free him at anytime. Funny thing is though the celestial beings haven’t bothered themselves so far, so maybe your claims aren’t worth the time you invested in stating them. I think you got the wrong guy and I am sure you thing you got the right guy, so if Warren Jeffs ever gets himself out of Huintsville, Texas I’d be willing to reconsider my position. If he never gets out will you be willing to reconsider your fanatical position?

  73. I tried to comprehend the so-called law of Thomas above.. oh well… obviously quite a mess there… Quoting Bible passage upon Bible passage but without understanding.
    As for the strange argument above about plural marriage and polygamy not being the same thing… ????? ok, folks, wow…and as far as the outward appearance stuff with clothing rules- I believe strongly in modesty, too. Plenty of Americans do. Plenty of Americans would like to see more modesty in many aspects of our lives.
    But forced modesty often doesn’t make righteous hearts. For decades I have lived near Pennsylvania Amish country.. There’s something I have noticed time and again over the decades- the people who go around in extra-modest attire and hairstyles according to their religious beliefs do not seem any more holy to me than most others in more typical American clothing. Everyone is just human, some are just a bit more restrained than others, that’s all. Much hypocrisy has been reported amongst the Amish. I have seen Amish men drink and smoke many times. I have heard many reports of serious horse neglect and abuse, and seen examples of it, and seen ads in livestock flyers and newspapers where a horse is for sale, and the seller will specifically state, “no sales to Amish.” I have heard of serious sexual abuse within the Amish families and settlements. I have heard of astonishing physical abuse also. Just a few weeks ago I saw a man pull out onto a public road, with cars going by, with a completely open buckboard, and a very small girl seated next to him. She looked to be no more than four, at most, and had no protection whatsoever. Her tiny hand was gripping the wooden seat edge. It made me afraid and angry.
    God sees hearts and minds. He doesn’t award brownie points based on outward appearance. He sees the beginning and the end. Many people who go around their whole lives thinking they were somehow holier than those around them may well be in for a rude awakening some day.

    Lastly, it’s real obvious that, for all the extreme dress code stuff going on with flds, sex is a big factor in their lives, to the point of demanding it from people who can’t even vote, drive, or legally work for several years yet. It is now abundantly well-documented that all forms of abuse and neglect are common in flds. Many people who have been able to escape from it tearfully testify time and again, and are afraid for those still in the group. These polygamy groups are a national disgrace, I don’t care what other problems the US has, there are still plenty of very decent people everywhere who don’t break laws and who are quite helpful and decent in everthing they do. If we all did what flds does,and that goes for the other polygamy groups, too, our entire nation would crumble.

    It is obvious to me that the polygamy groups are extremely harsh in many ways between themselves, disgraceful toward their young, ridiculously judgmental toward their fellow Americans, and quite blind about their own failings. They scream religious persecution while inviting imprisonment, and while lambasting everyone else who isn’t in their group as horrible condemned sinners. They do these things year after year. What astonishing hypocrisy.
    Warren Jeffs did in fact equate any refusal to become sexual with him, with a loss of approval with God, which shows him as not just a blasphemer but a cold-hearted and totally self-oriented rapist. I definitely wish many other people that are loyal to him could be imprisoned. I think Texas did the very best they could considering the weirdness seen at the “ranch” when police got out there after the “hoax” calls. It took years for them to be able to go do anything about that stupid human breeding encampment. flds lied without any shame to get their sex slavery establishment going in a new locale. It’s all just disgusting. There are better people all over the US than flds members, I don’t care how “modest” they work so hard to appear. They are a flat-out disgrace and I wish they were gone from US soil for good.

  74. Dear Fincemib

    Are you for real?

    You think it’s OK for a 50-odd year old man to have sex with several underage girls at once in a baptismal font? Now that’s what I’d call satan’s work.

    Do you really think that young women want to “marry” dirty old men with pot bellies and bad comb-overs? Of course not. That’s why you keep them isolated from everyone else – not to protect them but so you can continue to molest them without interruption.

    How many times has your “prophet” predicted the arrival of these hordes of avenging angels and all the destruction stuff? We’re all still waiting. He’s not much chop as a prophet as far as I can tell. He should get prosecuted under truth in advertising laws – coz he’s not real accurate with his predictions is he?

    People will leave you alone if you just obey the law like everyone else. The idea that laws don’t apply to you because the “prophet” or god says so is such total crap. Let’s hope fewer and fewer people will buy it.

  75. WHOA!

    FOLKS!

    Re-read the header on the letter of “Fincenmib”

    He COPIED a threat to Ben Bistline, back from

    ***2004***

    (yes its disturbing – and yes we should be offended – this is how they treat apostates out there – but we cant answer directly to the letter writer)

    Its a historical document showing the level of threat to others and also the fervent loyalty.

    That said, this was said before any of this recent stuff has gone down, and with all the exings, its likely that the letter writer is off repenting from afar somewhere.

    Its not revealed who wrote it, its just obvious FLDS. An interesting footnote to this drama.

    ———–

    *Remember all the children stil being held captive by the parents and chruch leaders*

  76. Again –

    He was just archiving for public view what goes on there. Read the headers!

  77. Sorry about that. I got sucked in again. cheers

  78. you werent the only one. I recognized fincenmib from other boards, he is a good guy, reading it again, it was to archive with others information he has on the FLDS

    BTW Fox news 13 has a ton of photos now and some “cleaned” tape excerpts – wow!

     http://kstu.vid.trb.com/player/PaperVideoTest.swf

  79. Warren raped his NIECE when she was only 7

    She testified at the trial and helped put Warren away for life

    Here is Jerusha Jeff’s testimony

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/warren-jeffs-niece-says-uncle-needed-prison/story?id=14269968

  80. fox13 has 82 pics of Warren marrying children.

    It seems like thats all he ever did!

    http://www.fox13now.com/entertainment/kstu-warren-jeffs-child-brides-photos-warren-jeffs-and-child-brides-20110809,0,1227866.photogallery

  81. Thank you Stamp. I feel like a real idiot and you’re right, I didn’t read things carefully enough.

    And apologies to you Fincemib but I thought you were the author of that tirade. I do beg your pardon.

    I don’t think I’ve ever heard of anything that has disturbed me as much as this FLDS business. Maybe I’m reacting to it so strongly because I’ve had bad experiences in my life at the hands of “holy” people (nothing as horrific as the FLDS people have endured) and it makes my blood boil when people justify horrible things in the name of God.

    I hope that the conviction of Mr Jeffs will result in more of the sect members getting free of this exploitation and abuse. For a start I’d be furious if I was handing over my money only to find out what my “prophet” was spending it on. And I’d be mad if I was forced to wear neck-to-knee clothing in the summer only to see photos of Mr Jeffs looking very comfy in shorts and a T-shirt. I hope they are somehow able to see what a creep this guy is and what sickness this “religion” is.

  82. Interesting thing about the archived letter to Mr. Bistline

    “We raise our children like calves in a stall.”

  83. The letter to Ben Bistline can be found in his book titled The Polygamists – A History of Colorado City, Arizona

    Starting with page 405

    The letter was turned over to the FBI

  84. I think I’ve got the original two audios like before, made by the same man!
    come listen!
    http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/warren-jeffs-texas-sex-rape-trial-audio.html

  85. There did exist rumors
    of creatures in these woods.

    It is in one of the history books
    I used to teach in the towns.

    The screams from the woods?

    We created those sounds.

    Lines from the movie the Villiage. Fear is how they ruled those in this movie. Mind control is a very very serious thing.

    And when it looked as if they might lose one to the other side- they would do things to frighten them some more.

    Not to give away the ending but the girl in this movie meets up with a Texas Ranger/Deputy George and they help her.

    And everything changes. Just knowing that there is more out there.

    Yup. that’s what is needed. More Rangers and Deputy Georges everywhere.

    And the national media to help the local media get the real stories out,

  86. Anon. Canada said: “thanks for the moniker and for your email. I’m elated by the news that RCMP are “going in” .”

    I didn’t send you an e-mail.

    Be careful Canada.

  87. Found this long article with my morning search for the latest about FLDS. It could be a problem for some readers because it’s reasonable, logical and rational. I found it quite thought provoking. Read it to the end with an open mind. Then think about it.

    http://atheistoasis.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/warren-jeffs-and-the-flds-dont-say-its-not-about-religion-because-it-is/

  88. Its obvious this is going to have repercussions bouncing around for a long time, if not decades.

    I think we just witnessed a very historic moment and it touches on a lot of issues, no pun intended.

    I am still concerned about the other people still in especially the children, and most of all the ones on that nasty ranch.

  89. Fincemib, Sorry about the mistaken authorship, never mind my comment.

  90. Many will remember Child Advocacy Center aka CASA and it’s involvement in the phone call that resulted in the “raid” on YFZ which resulted in the arrest and conviction of Warren Jeffs and some of his henchmen. Well it appears the feds have been investigating all involved including those running CASA. The feds have indicted the head of that organization Debra Brown, who is also wife of the Tom Green county judge Mike Judge.

    So the first federal indictment out of the investigation of events leading up to the YFZ affair is none other than the head of the CASA organization. One would have thought it would be one of the FLDS henchmen.

    Strange how thing turn out thing turn out, the woman who helped cause the events that lead to arrest of that felonious profit Warren Jeffs will be joining him in the gray bar hotel.

    Read more: http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/aug/11/former-cac-director-debra-brown-indicted/

  91. Anon. I thought the article was really good. thanks for sharing.

    I have to share this.

    http://www.amazon.com/Paperdolls-Healing-Sexual-Mormon-Neighborhoods/dp/B000QBPWBK

    from one of the reviews: The neighborhood sex rings mentioned in these two prominent neighborhoods along the Wasatch Front in Utah have also been confirmed in Cedar City, Lehi, and many, many other neighborhoods in Utah. A friend’s young son was sodomized and traumatized in a neighborhood sex ring in Cedar City, UT eerily similar to what is described in this book. The publically disclosed official “Interoffice Memo” written by Presiding Bishop Glen L. Pace documents the FACTUAL existence of and confirmed satanic ritual abuse of over sixty individuals (mostly abused children) who all stated the same thing despite their widely dispersed locations — that they were abused by church leaders and threatened if they told much as described in this truthful expose of sex abuse in Mormon neighborhoods.

  92. http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Minus-Anne-Johnson-Davis/dp/0978834801

    My Story of Deliverance from Satanic Ritual Abuse and My Journey to Freedom. Anne’s story is different from other previously published memoirs by victims of SRA. Instead of distressing, heart-breaking accounts without collaborative or corroborative evidence, Anne’s story is fully and responsibly documented. Her parents confessed their atrocities-both in writing and verbally-to clergymen, and to detectives from the Utah Attorney General’s Office. Anne’s suppressed memories, which erupted when she was in her mid-30s, were fully substantiated by her mother and stepfather. Hell Minus One is an unforgettable and moving story that takes the reader to the depths of human depravity, and to the heavens of human will and forgiveness. The foreword was written by Lt. Detective Matt Jacobson, who was the lead investigator with the Utah Attorney General’s Office on Anne’s case.

  93. I have a couple of posts “awaiting moderation” I am sure due to the links that I provided to a couple of books.

    Hell Minus One by Anne Johnson Davis

    Paper Dolls by April Daniels and Carol Scott

    Another site a person should check out is titled Case Reports of the Mormon Alliance

    😦 I did not provide these links because I am anit-mormon or anti-flds
    I am anti-BS and anti-abuse and I think that people should be made aware of the many things that have gone on and on and on.

    And they will continue to go on if everyone remains silent.

  94. Anonymous 9:14AM ,

    Loved the article, very thought provoking and well presented. The inherent limits and conflict between religion and the political worlds is interwoven and therein lies the rub. “In God We Trust” motto places the Almighty over all things yet the underlying realities are frought with grey areas that create endless struggles without any final resolution. The FLDS leadership seems to have found the gap between the secular and religious and staked their claim in what is the border area of ‘No Mans Land’.

    I’m struck with our lacking a truer interpretation of what is the definition of ‘Freedom of Religion’ because without a more defined meaning, the practices of the FLDS Church for members unlucky to have been born in it’s control they are denied any chance of what I will call ‘Freedom from Religion’. FLDS children are indoctrinated from birth into a faith that affords them no chance at ever making na informed choice to believe or not to believe, it’s like they were born into a Holy Orders and it’s presumed that they will live a religious calling with no questions asked, just “Keep Sweet”.

  95. I realize I misspoke. It was actually a long blog post rather than an article. Nevertheless, as you say caJIM, “very thought provoking.”

  96. ‘A Texan’, two points on your above posting first the indictment is not a guilty verdict and the fair thing is to await a court decision/ruling. Secondly, this indictment is related to suspected embezzlement(s) and isn’t connected with any thing related to the YFZ Ranch Raid/Rescue? Your connecting the CASA Court appointees and Childs Advocacy Center as one and the same is incorrect. The crisis call that is believed to have been a ‘hoax’ caller involved a Washington State based crisis center which, again, you have intertwined with either CASA or CAC which is not the case either. The Feds are involved because some of the CAC ‘not for profit’ funding came from Government funds, ergo the Feds were involved this is not directly related to the YFZ Ranch Raid/Rescue.

  97. Apologies if already posted: Jeffs evidence released:

    http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-warren-jeffs-tapes-released-20110811,0,7270032.story

  98. I also apologize to fincemib – didn’t read the header.I didn’t mean to shoot the messenger.

  99. That nasty letter sounds like a young ill bill with a burr under his saddle.

    Too bad the horse he was trotting along on, died on him.

  100. Calif Jim

    You got fincenMIB wrong!

    FincenMIB = Jay Beswick

    My computer took a dump and I mean 50,000 emails faded in to cyberspace! What I posted was random documents that were saved!

    The HOUSE OF THOMAS rules of marriage were from Thomas Sliwinski who married his step daughters. His a twisted reality. Thomas fled Montana, with William Black who fled FLDS Apple Valley near Hildale Utah.

    The threat to Ben Bistline another document that did not evaporate. I use to give these to other activist and vise versa, but wonder 11 years later who has still retained these documents. I have them in print of course, but to email, much has been lost! I’M SURE THIS WAS WARREN PUTTING A CURSE ON MY COMPUTER!

  101. Someone brought up the issue of deprograming yesterday I think!

    This has been debated long and hard! FLDS who get ousted often swing wide out side the door of restrictions, into a world of limitless FREEDOM

    Drugs, alcohol, sex, anger, emotion abuses, etc. I could name names, but won’t. Girls who got into prostitution, one lost boy who murdered his under age girl friend.

    When we had runners or knew of runners, Flora Jessop, Debbie Palmer and I felt that a year was needed to relearn socialization logic and skills before intergration in to society. The state wanted kids in school ASAP, but a few months, was to soon to learn a new value system.

    When we look at WARRENITES these are not ousted members or run aways, their bond or hold is much stronger and their is a unity in established structures of family and priesthood. The ability to reassign a mother and children is proof of a strangle hold, few gentiles understand. They reject family loyalty for priesthood or prophet and while deprograming is a good idea, authorities would need to understand both the FLDS faith, a long with cult mentalities.

    To many keep asking me why, the woman didn’t leave which tells me they still do not understand cults you are born in to. Stronger ties than the clan (KKK), more like the idea of HATFIELDS & McCOY, of a mindset that goes unquestioned, but from birth!

    Long before TEXAS! It looked like the Barlow brothers who controlled Colorado City, as Mayor, Fire Chief, Superintendent of Schools, Economic Developement and so on would stand up to Warren after Rulon had died. They met in Hurricane Utah at a local restaurant and talked loud enough for me to get a call from their waitress! There seemed to be a desire to challenge Warren! But, less understood then, Warren was accepted as their religious leader and as so controlled the women, absolutely! When Warren said YOUR HUSBAND IS NO LONGER WORTHY, the wives without question left their husbands, its called CHECKMATE!

    To deprogram the FLDS, the absolute obedience of faith needs to be better understood. Think of a suicide bomber in the Middle East when you consider deprograming and you are getting closer to the mind set.

    Jay

  102. Fincenmib, I posted my apology at 9:47AM but posting “Kool Aide” propaganda is sure to draw some defensive responses.

  103. From National Post (Canada media)
    Aug 12, 2011 – 9:03 AM ET

    VANCOUVER — The RCMP is investigating allegations that at least 30 girls, aged 12 to 17, were sent from the Mormon community in Bountiful, B.C., to Texas as child brides.

    Police have been investigating since February this year, the RCMP said in a statement Thursday night.

    The allegations relate to events that may have occurred at least a decade ago but also as late as 2005 or early 2006, the RCMP said.

    “RCMP investigators are not aware of any more recent or any ongoing incidents where young girls are currently being victimized,” RCMP Cpl. Dan Moskaluk said.

    “The investigation is advancing and the RCMP anticipates sending investigators … to Texas in the future.”

    Warren Jeffs, head of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day was recently sentenced to life plus 20 years in a Texas court after being convicted of sexual assault and aggravated sexual assault towards two girls that he “married” when they were 12 and 14 years old.

    There are members of the church in Bountiful and there have long been allegations that some children from the B.C. community were sent to Jeffs in Texas as “celestial brides.”

    Moskaluk said investigators are also examining allegations that girls under the age of 18 were removed from the U.S. and brought up to Canada.

    .

  104. How many children need to be sex trafficked across state and intl boundaries before the FEDS kick in?

    1 child?

    4?

    30?

    465?

    Just what does it take?

  105. Casey Anthony ordered to Orlando FL to serve one year probation for her check fraud conviction.

    too little but better than nothing!

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/12/judge-orders-casey-anthony-to-serve-probation-for-check-fraud-in-florida/

  106. How many need to be moved from state to state for the purpose of having sex with the profit? I mean Brenda Lei’s father could be hung out to dry without much thought. He brought his 12 year old daughter to Warren in Texas for him to rape and pillage.

    Let’s kick the Mann Act into high gear here feds.

  107. Hey Jay!

    I have a relative who is a CIA agent.

    When I had a computer crash, he told me how to retrieve the data.

    You can pick up a hard drive adapter – see link – at an electronics store / Best Buy – online.

    Connect your hard drive from failed computer to it, and it hooks up to another good computer via USB.

    You can read it like a giant thumb drive.

    This presumes when your computer crashed, it was the mother board, or power supply and hopefully not the HDD.

    Power supplies can be replaced, motherboards too expensive to fool with.

    So pick up the hdd adapter, and if the hdd itself didnt fry, you can retrieve all data or as much as you want.

    Retrieving locally stored emails is a bit tricky, havent done that – but you can research how using google.

    Good luck

    http://www.newertech.com/products/usb2_adaptv2.php

  108. thank you Texas FLDS moderator for passing my links thru.

    Now… how do we make things right?

  109. Read part of the transcripts posted on San Angelo newspaper site, but didn’t listen to the audio as I was beginning to feel ill, it’s too much to handle. I really feel sorry for the jury that had to listen to this.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/aug/12/audio-clip-jeffs-following-a-sexual-session-with/

    And an interesting write up at KSL in SLC: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=16781078

    From KSL article:

    “He will be allowed 15 minute phone calls with a total of 240 minutes per month only with 10 pre-approved people. All phone calls will be recorded and monitored.”

    Article indicates that Jeffs can’t use the the phone until he is assigned a cell and prison unit.

  110. Hey Walton – anoncanadaeh? here –

    I think WE are making things right a step at a time. Rome wasn’t built in a day. On tonight’s national news in Canada they did a long piece on WJ’s crimes in connection to Bountiful and that there’s a full blown investigation going on, played some of the audio recordings court evidence without much editing etc. I am bubbling over with joy at this moment [she shouts “yee haww” loudly] and why? Because if you would have told me 10 years ago that such a detailed/graphic piece would have been on the 5:30 news I would have doubted it. Likewise, how many of you would have thought that the psycho would be doing life in a Texas prison, ten years ago?

    i think where we go from here is to keep doing whatever each one of us can to keep this out in the open. Getting people to think of this as violent crime, child abuse, theft, scamming government out of welfare money, etc. And not about religeous persecution, an academic debate about human rights, polygamist rights, and blah blah blah

    Not let it slink back into the perverted, criminal, inhumane dark pit that its been allowed to thrive in. Each time each one of us does anything they can to keep the media and public interested in this, we are making it right. Keeping this in the light. Imo we are going to have to take down compounds and towers one brick at a time and then, the rest will eventually tumble. And I don’t think it would take that long if enough people are aware and involved in keeping our politicians and media on this. My thoughts.

  111. And now it will return to business as usual with South Dakota, Utah and Arizona all saying that there is just no way to investigate these crimes.

  112. The RCMP had evidence years ago including names. They called Winston Blackmore “THE BISHOP” like he was their spiritual leader in a written investigative report. All he had to do was lie and that was good enough for them. Now they might do the investigation they should have done ten years ago. Read Dauphne’s book it is all there.

  113. Blackbird — glad you brought up the notion that it will now be back to business as usual in SD, Utah and Arizona. I’m afraid you’re right, and I hope that this little blog will keep chugging along and keeping the issue front and center. I am going to make a new post later about Shurtleff and the way that he has actively obstructed efforts to improve this situation and stop the abuses.

    Shurtleff is now riding the Texas hang-em-high bandwagon and trying to take credit for Jeffs’ eventual downfall … as if he’s tough on crime or some nonsense.

    Canada may investigate and help their children who were spirited away into secrecy behind tall Texas walls …. or they may not. I’ll believe it when I see it. I hear a ruling is expected soon on the reference case as well. Shame that it’s even up for debate, much less given legitimacy by the highest court.

  114. Having been to Bible college I that some of those Bible verses sounded a bit strange and I looked them up, many of them were misquoted. For instance I Peter 3:1-6 says “daughters” not wives in every version available. It appears that Mr. Sliwinski is re-writing the Bible in his own image. Also in several situations where it says wives, it also says “husbands” plural. Mark 3:24-25 for instance says, “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” But says nothing of what he says. How Mr. Sliwinski can misquote the Old Testament and the Apostles all he wants but I find that misusing the words of Jesus is evil. Perhaps he shoudl read this one: Mark 9:42 “And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck.

  115. Utah or B.C., prosecutors need evidence. It’s the legal system we work under in a free country and with all its warts, its still a better system than some of the alternatives imo.

    It’s really interesting watching what the RCMP are doing here. They just did another piece on Bountiful on the news. And part of it was basically the RCMP spokesman saying “now is the time for victims to come forward. Without evidence we can’t do anything”. My words but that’s basically what they are saying. Like a sort of appeal to the public. It is something, and yes blackbird, I agree with you that it’s 10 years too late, but it’s something.

    I’ve never even been to Utah or Arizona but I know that people are the same there as anywhere else in north america. They can’t all be part of twisted Mormon sects. Those that aren’t can stay on their politicians and media. Ask why their taxes are paying for law enforcement officers that are not enforcing the law? Why their taxes are being dished out to welfare fraud? Why children are not getting a proper education? Why underage children are not living with their family but homeless instead? Any children that are going to a public school are somewhat reachable through the tax funded school system. At the very least a “public health nurse” could go visit those schools and talk to the kids ALONE. If the school is publically funded then taxpayers have a right to check whether their taxes are going to the intended purpose.

    –from anoncanadaeh?

  116. For anoncanadaeh — what is public opinion about the polygamy reference case that is about to be decided (whether polygamy is or is not constitutional)? Do you think public opinion about Winston Blackmore/Bountiful has changed in light of the Jeffs case?

    I’m praying we get a good decision and that there will finally be a prosecution against Blackmore.

  117. One question, who has the porche?

  118. It is the responsibility of the public to report crimes it is the responsibility of LE to investigate and get evidence. RCMP kissed up to Winston for years as did all of B.C. including those agencies that were to protect children. Letters were sent naming Winston’s wives and those that were trafficked from the U.S. and their ages Did they really need more than that to investigate? Girls that were taken to the U.S. were also named.

  119. texasconnie – well the thing is that there is no “court of public opinion” on the Supreme Court of Canada deliberations. That’s because this is ciurrently not a legal issue, but, rather, a debate of law. It’s being considered in the dusty courts of Ottawa as a constitutional matter – do polygamists deserve to be protected by the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to practice their religeon freely and independent of government interference.? The media doesn’t cover “boring
    debate on bills” unless there is something sensational to cover. That hasn’t been the case with Bountiful in Canada. The media was too busy following Brittney Spears around without her underwear.

    You probably already know this, but for reference. basically what has happened here in BC in the courts is that Blackmore/Oron were tried on evidence through the BC Provincial Court and found guilty of charges laid. They then appealed through all the levels of the canadian courts to eventually the highest court of the land, the Canada Supreme Court and their appeals worked out and the charges were stayed (thrown out). So the BC Attorney General (that runs the RCMP and sets the laws in BC) said, okay Supreme Court of Canada, we ask that you rule on whether the polygamists are breaking the law or not? The way the Court rules will affect how the RCMP can deal with the issue – is there a law to enforce or not. But the thing is, its being considered by the courts as a constitutional matter, and there isn’t much interest on the part of the politicians and RCMP to look at this as crime at this point. Been there done that and all charges were eventually thrown out by the court.

    Since its a legislative issue and not a criminal issue, its not being covered AT ALL in the news or on the radar of any politician that I’m aware of. It would be like if your congress was debating a bill as to whether to allow fisherman to fish more fish 40 metres off the coat of Florida. Except for the few fisherman out there that may be affected, no one else is really paying attention.

  120. Thanks, anoncanadaeh. I knew it was a Supreme Court issue but had hoped it was getting some media coverage. Guess it’s just not that important to most people, unlike Brittney Spears and her undies, or lack thereof. (And here in the U.S. it’s now the Casey Anthony trial, which is still getting coverage weeks after it’s over.)

    i do try to follow Daphne Bramham’s columns in the Vancouver Sun and have read her book on Bountiful.

  121. If I could be a reporter for a day, I would pick the brains of those that have been reporting on these stories for so long. Some of them have seen way more than most. But then …. how much freedom do they have to report the actual news?

    The Warren Jeffs story sadly is just a little of what is going on. And if any of you are part of that team… I just don’t know what else to do. I have to speak up on some of this stuff it’s BS.

    It’s about Religion, it’s not about Religion. It is a cult it isn’t a cult. Just like the story in that one link. Only there is more.

    Stupid ass mind games! The reason so many take prozac is because of all the secrets and mind games being played by so many different groups.
    If things would finally be said out loud a person might be able to help with some of this stuff that has been going on.

    One expert says there are beds in the LDS temples. most of the people posting at the trib deny ever seeing them. So what is a person to think?

    Shurtleff says he is doing everything he can. that he needs proof etc. Proof had been laid upon his desk and proven time and time again that he didn’t do anything.

    maybe Shurtleff is a fall guy?

    Maybe there are things bigger than Attorney Generals, LE, senators etc. maybe there are other issues at play here. But I don’t care. I understand some of that stuff. But enough already.

    This stuff should have been taken care of years ago. Enough BS stories.

    for the guy behind the curtains- What are we suppose to do?

  122. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705269563/Book-aims-to-aid-victims-of-ritual-abuse.html

    “I’m glad that she’s come out of the shadows and she’s in the sunlight to tell her story so other victims will speak out and know they don’t have to be afraid anymore,” said Paul Murphy, a spokesman for the Utah Attorney General’s Office who interviewed her as a TV reporter back in 1995. He also wrote a blurb on the book’s jacket.

    Davis still takes issue with the attorney general’s report, which came out at a time when ritual abuse was being attacked as indicative of false memory syndrome — events and fantasies imagined by patients or planted by unscrupulous therapists.

    “I have a hard time believing that many come forward and none of them exist,” she said Wednesday.

    I am bringing all this up not to cast blame on a Church or a religon. Not to throw stones but to ask how in the heck can things like this go on and on and on. with the same results.

    Victims come forward only to be shuffled into the “still investigating zone”. This pattern is repeated time and time again. Why?

    Is this a common practice when investigatin child abuse? it isn’t where I live. Is it a common practice when religion is involved? not in most places. So what is the deal?

    I won’t be offended if someone anyone can point out what it is I am just not seeing.

    Someone help me out here. please.

  123. blackbird – yes, lots of evidence was given to law enforcement. Yes, “THEY” should have listened and acted, And done something. But Blackmore runs the town, employees the people, pays his taxes, and has a huge voting block on who gets elected in their community, who their police, teachers and Mayors are. Its a fact. We have to put on our big boy and girl underpants and deal with it {laugh}.

    So back to the original question? How do we keep up this momentum? The past is the past, and many people fought and devoted their time to getting this to where it is now. Each is a hero. Lets think of that instead of what the cops could have done or all the deaf ears we’ve encountered on this. Moving forward, I don’t want to waste my energy on getting mad about what should have happened but what to do now. As Walton asks, what do we do now to make it right? Let’s talk about that.

  124. texas connie – we have casey anthony too. Brittney was back at the time they hauled Blackmore into court. She trumped coverage over that. Brittney is old news now,as is the way of the short attention span media. Pretty much, our popular culture is the same as yours. Sad but true.

  125. Pathgirl, no mention of what happened to the porsche.

  126. I said this:

    ” Someone help me out here. please.”

    Never mind.

  127. C-M, Thank you for the Thank you!

  128. walton and texasconnie and jay and others –

    The way I see it we have a lot of people that would get behind this issue but we need someone to organize it. Look at Angelina Jolie as an example. She advances her causes because wherever she goes the media follows her. She uses that media power to speak on issues important to her. I use her as an example but there are many others in Hollywood, business, lobbying agencies, political party executives that are doing the same. Its how democracy works.

    So, how do we do that? We need money to hire a “marketing firm” to “market” our message like these others do. For that, we need money. So, first of all, I think we need to organize a campaign to raise money to help people of FLDS, and other branch mormon sects that want to come back to the real world to do so. Money will be necessary to do what it takes. Jeeezaz, look up what the “free the whale” or “save the spotted owl” people raise in donations Surely there is an equal amount of people that want to save children as much as they do whales and owls?

    The challenge is, we need to get organized. With an agenda that is not religeous, is non-partisan politically (lets not care if you are a democrat or rep. or canadian, or catholic) but only to be a resource for people that have been brainwashed, are getting the short end of the stick, and want to break away back into the real world. As gets discussed here, its going to take the resources of multi-agencies to support these people as the foundation crumbles around them. We need someone that has a lot of time on their hands to get us organized.

    Once we raise dollars we can hire help. And yes, I realize it sounds like I’ve oversimplified everything, but while these sites, postings and ideas are valuable,at some point if we want to help these victims and stop the perpetuation of abuse, we will have to actually DO something. Its the law of nature.

  129. Putting 25% of YFZ adult males behind Texas prison bars is a hefty beginning, don’t you think, anonymous? We Texas taxpayers even have to foot the bill.

  130. What in the world supposedly qualifies WJeffs as ‘pure’?

  131. anon 12:23 I don’t know what amount of resources it will take? But if a serial killer or casey anthony is prosecuted no one talks about the costs? If prosecuting a crime gets expensive and complicated, is that good reason to not prosecute the crime? Not where I live. Hopefully not what our taxpayers think? If you don’t do anything you can’t blame the government because we are the government.

  132. anon 12:23 am – yes, I do think that the Texas people putting WJ in prison is huge. And yes, I know it took your tax dollars etc to do it. God Bless Texas. So, don’t stop now. I want you to know that what you’ve done has the potential to help other jurisdictions outside of yours – thank you to all the brave Texans; You’ve lived up to your reputation of being no nonsense and willing to stand up where you believe you should. Yay Texas.

  133. Many will remember Child Advocacy Center aka CASA and it’s involvement in the phone call that resulted in the “raid” on YFZ which resulted in the arrest and conviction of Warren Jeffs and some of his henchmen. Well it appears the feds have been investigating all involved including those running CASA. The feds have indicted the head of that organization Debra Brown, who is also wife of the Tom Green county judge Mike Judge.

    ———————————————–

    The news article says she was arrested for embezzlement and fraud. Doesn’t seem like that has anything directly to do with the FLDS case.

  134. anon e mouse from anoncanada =eh? – you are right. Her embezzelment charges have nothing to do with FLDS. It turns out that when your police started looking into the accounts and “the books” to lay charges on FLDS, they found out she was writing checks to herself that she had no right to write. Shes the wife of a judge out your way too. She’s been caught in the bottom of the net. Ironic isn’t it. Interesting what comes up when our law enforcement looks into things isn’t it?

  135. Admin,
    How about we start one thread that has suggestions for laws that can be enacted or tightened or removed that remove loopholes for the behaviors that allow polygamous communities to operate.. laws on home schooling laws on welfare etc. Sort of a think tank thread one place shopping for law makers.
    HHG

  136. I think the whole mantra on the Warren is ‘pure’ mindset is the “Mary had a little lamb” syndrome they display as the group think. It’s tied-in to the unquestioning and no doubts of the “Keep Sweet”. Warren is the mouthpiece and he can do no wrong, Warren in his “Heavenly Sessions” lulls the participants that if all he’s saying is revelation then it’s all true and righteous. Being outside the ‘Kool-Aide’ factory gives us the obvious perspective of critical thinking but inside you can harbor no doubts. As the childhood ditty about Mary’s lamb recounts,” And every where that Mary went the lamb was sure to go”. Yep, right into the Temple and up on the Third Floor. Willie R.’Thug’ Jessop says that the responsibility for Warren’s felonious acts lies at the feet of each FLDS Church member but Lyle Jeffs is well on his way of making sure this ‘forbidden fruit’ incident never is exposed to their collective consciences. During the trial the Prophet Warren “Mr. Perfect” Jeffs never alluded to the charges of either ‘Child Bride’ his denial before the Jury was absolute, after all he’s too pure to sully his position or be accused by mere ‘Gentiles’ of an unrighteous act(s). Now back to Mary’s lamb,”Who’s fleece was white as snow”, get the picture?

  137. HHG

    If the FEDS would simply ENFORCE laws currently on the books, this would have been history before they got started in Texas.

    We dont need more laws, we need LE to actually enforce the laws they are breaking.

    Its been seen that UT and AZ are impotent beyond lip service… It has to go to the next level – and as we’ve see the FLDS have violated tons of federal laws.

    I’m thankful Texas took the ball and scored touchdown after touchdown, its time for the other teams to show up.

  138. Warren is Pure

    Pure EVIL

    And that “all consuming fire” isnt from HEAVEN…

  139. “When Winston Blackmore said it 6 years ago, it didn’t seem like a big deal,

    “He was recording people’s conversations.”

    Yes, you heard right.

    Warren Jeffs was recording people’s conversations.

    Little did Blackmore or Jeffs know that secret recordings would one day help put the FLDS leader behind bars for life.

    Five years ago, Blackmore made clear,

    “We are not him and he does not represent the fundamentals of our faith.”

    http://www.abc4.com/content/news/state/story/Canadian-FLDS-leader-warned-of-Jeffs-and-secret/ri0I_VJwNUyU9AlUzq74hw.cspx

  140. http://www.liveleak.com/e/728_1313207539

    An Amazon tribe has a bad religious practice – warning

  141. With Warren in the cooler, are they going to divy up the ice cream before it melts?

  142. Stamp said this on August 13, 2011 at 10:04 AM : We dont need more laws, we need LE to actually enforce the laws they are breaking.

    True on the latter point, but more complex on the former.

    Arizona and Utah are hindered by having to prove venue (place where the crime took place) to the degree of reasonable doubt. Texas does not.

    Arizona penalties for sexual contact with a child are a joke.

    They and Utah might want to consider jury sentencing as an option rather than leaving it up to the judge.

    Canada has to deal with their constitutional issues when it comes to polygamy/bigamy religious issues, but what that has to do with international trafficking of children for sexual purposes is beyond my comprehension.

    Texas has some of the laxest homeschooling requirements in the U.S. There has to be a way that creates more accountability without sacrificing the sacred cow of the parents’ rights to control their children’s eduction. This is always a dead issue with the Texas legislature due to the effectiveness of the home school/private school lobbying organizations and rallying the grassroots. Maybe next go around, the reality of what Warren Jeffs has done will give some of the home school advocates reason to pause and be more reasonable.

    And the next time a federal fugitive who is known to have connections to an anomalous place, can local, state and federal law enforcement get their heads and resources together and get the person sooner. It’s not like YFZ was hidden…big white temple in the middle of sheep country…can’t miss it. Warren was in and out of there and Short Creek many, many, many times while he was on the run.

  143. I need an edit function!

    ————fixed – admin

  144. Good points.

    I think if they went after the “so called prophets” or high profile people in those sects for bigamy, even without child molesting charges, it would put cold water on them.

    Sure, it would put polygamy to the test, but Texas is already doing that, as is Turley that IMHO has no chance since he wants to bring in muslims to this pity party suit – plus this suit is running concurrent to his suit against Obama – making him look the fool. JMHO

    Your point on home schooling is valid, we vetted this situation a year or so ago, that would be a hard nut to crack.

    Still, the fact they can keep children locked up on a sex commune with a 25 pct conviction rate of pedophiles is truly disturbing.

    I’d really like to see the FEDS step in and address some of the egregious violations like interstate and international child sex trafficking – this alone should be enough to pick apart the rest of this nonsense and set it straight.

    That and a proper ruling on the UEP.

  145. I agree that we don’t need more laws. If the laws already on the books were upheld these problems wouldn’t be facing us now. The biggest problem I see is Utah’s lack of effort to arrest those breaking the law. Arizona’s not much better at it. Texas needs to step up and start arresting all the men at the YFZ who have admitted publicly to being a bigamist. That would include Bob Barlow and Richard S. Jessop, along with Seth, Nephi and Isaac Jeffs.

  146. My computer crashed and dumped prior user names, but retained the fincenMIB stuff going back several years. I used it for years, maybe 1996 because F.I.N.C.E.N. is the federal agency blamed in connection with most conspiracy theories, the Black OPTS! Then the movie of the same theme MIB = MEN IN BLACK. Lived in Utah and heard every conspiracy theory invented. It was tongue and cheek humor.

    Per the Canada thing Daphne B. has been fueling the Canada probe as Fabian Dawson did before her. The press is keeping politicians hands on the hot stove.

    A request for dialogue came in yesterday for what the RCMP & Canada INS knew and when? Sounds like Canada is under the heat of warren’s conviction to me!

    INS dialog below;

    Warren Jeffs Transporting Girls to Canada / Canada INS 1

    Canada INS 2 Reporting polygamy & Teen Brides to INS & FBI

    Interview With Canada’s INS #3 over Warren Jeffs & Polygamy

    INS #4 Canada Imigration on Warren Jeffs & Polygamy

  147. RCMP dialog
    in Sept. of 2000;

    RCMP 1 Polygamy & Childbrides Reported in Canada 9-2000

    RCMP #2 Canada Police Polygamy Issues Reported 9/2000

    RCMP 3 Canada Police Reporting Child Abuse & Childbrides!

    RCMP Canada Knew about the Warren Jeffs Sex Slaves in the year 2000!

    RCMP #5 Reporting Child Abuse polygamy to Canada Government

    Warren Jeffs, Winston Blackmore, Creston Canada & Polygamy Rose from Canada NEWSPAPER

    RCMP FLDS Polygamous Coverup, Like Eldorado Texas (Warren’s Voice, Photo’s of Canada Investigation in the 1980s)

  148. Texas fine tuned their relevant statutes.

    If the laws work as they are currently on the books, then justice was done in the case of Kelly Fischer and his 45-day sentence.

    And no problem with marrying one’s cousin.

  149. 3:16 pm was me.

  150. Dear Me, who the hell are you,Hee,hee!

  151. This me. texastwist.

    For whatever reason it will not let me log in.

  152. Except that it did.

    What is up with all of the buggies today?

  153. The FBI related to Canada, when they were notified. Novemver of 2000! Texas was responsive in 2008, what did the FBI know before that date? What about Canada? Their INS & RCMP and a 1988 Investigation brought forth? FBI SPECIAL AGENT GAIL GNECKOW Raw unrefined data;

    —– Original Message —–
    From: Lenore Holm
    To: cda.su@fbi.gov
    Cc: Jay Beswick
    Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 3:17 PM
    Subject: ATTN: GAIL GNECKO

    Craig Chatwin just told me the names of his sisters that went to Canada to cohabitate underage. He also told me the names of his brothers that have girls from Canada that are underage.::::

    Marsha Chatwin (mother:Esther Young & father: Marvin Wyler) 17 when she married Winston Blackmore.

    Esther Ruth age( same parents as Marsha) 13– just got married to a young guy!

    Deanna Chatwin 14–married Guy Blackmore an older guy –later 40’s or 50’s.

    Laree Chatwin married John Blackmore at 16

    Nycia,(married Guy Blackmore), Lucinda, (married Zane Blackmore), and Zelpha (married Winston Blackmore)

    ALL OF THESE MEN ARE SONS OF MARVIN WYLER and all of these marriages are put together by Winston Blackmore!::
    THESE GIRLS WERE BROUGHT DOWN TO COLORADO CITY FROM CANADA!

    Von Chatwin married a 15 year old Palmer girl (VERY RECENT)

    Stephen Chatwin married Elizabeth Palmer at 15

    David Chatwin married Guy Blackmore’s daughter at 15

    Troy Chatwin married Mac Blackmore’s daughter, Sarah, at 15

    Chris Chatwin married a Blackmore girl underage

    —– Original Message —–
    From: Lenore Holm
    To: cda.su@fbi.gov
    Cc: Jay Beswick
    Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 3:14 PM
    Subject: ATTN: GAIL GNECKO

    Here are some names. I hope this will be of help to your investigation.

    VICKI NEILSON (ELROY NEILSON’S DAUGHTER) married WARREN JEFFS at 16 years old

    LUCILLE MUSSER (AMOS MUSSER’S DAUGHTER) married RULON FISCHER (in his 30’s)

    LAREE JOHNSON (LAMAR JOHNSON’S DAUGHTER) married RULON JEFFS AT 14 OR 15 years old

    WARREN JEFFS married KENDALL JOHNSON’S daughter underage. Her mother is a MACKERT

    DIANNA LANE (ED LANE’S DAUGHTER) 16 or 17, went to Canada to visit her sister that was married to Winston Blackmore. She ended up married to him underage.

    ALVIN BARLOW has 4 daughters married to Winston Blackmore. One: (EDITH) WAS DEFINITELY MARRIED TO HIM UNDERAGE!

    JOHN JOHNSON has 4 daughters married to Winston Blackmore. (SHARON AND MARJORIE) were underage!

    (2 CANADIAN GIRLS TRANSPORTED ACROSS THE BOARDER AT 14 OR 15 TO BE COHABITATED WITH (FOR LEWD PURPOSES)! SHARON OLLER & MARJORIE OLLER TO COHABITATE WITH KENDELL JOHNSON JR. in Colorado City, Arizona.

    CAMILLE STEED (LAWRENCE STEED’S DAUGHTER) cohabitated with BOB BARLOW (son of DAN BARLOW) at the age of 16.

    PATRICIA JESSOP (DAUGHTER TO JOE C. & PAT JESSOP) cohabitated underage with JOHN Y. BARLOW.

    LESEILLE JESSOP(DAUGHTER OF PEGGY AND HYRUM JESSOP) 16 yrs got married to a BARLOW

    Cc: Jay Beswick
    Sent: Friday, November 17, 2000 3:15 PM
    Subject: ATTN: GAIL GNECKO

    HERE ARE SOME NAMES! [NICHOLE’S AGE]
    > >
    > > CINDY HOLM 15 MARRIED RON BARLOW JR.
    > > SANDY MELDRUM 15 MARRIED
    > > RUTH STUBBS14 MARRIED RODNEY HOLM [POLICE-OFFICER]
    > > SHIRLEY BLACKMORE 15 MARRIED
    > > ***CANADA*** SOPHIA STEED 14 MARRIED,
    > > SHIPPED TO CANADA BARELY OUT OF THE 8TH GRADE
    > > LOUISA JOHNSON *WILD* 14 MARRIED DALE BARLOW AS 3RD WIFE
    > > RACHAEL COOKE 14 OR 15 MARRIED
    > > ELLEN COOKE 14 OR 15 MARRIED
    > > ***CANADA***MARY CHATWIN [NICHOLE’S BEST FRIEND]MARRIED MAC
    > > BLACKMORE’S SON AT 15. ALSO **MARA LEE CHATWIN MARRIED THE SAME MAN.
    > [SHE
    > > IS NOT HAPPY!!!!!]
    > > ESTHER ALLRED MARRIED AT 15
    > > ESTHER BARLOW, [ SAM BARLOW’S AND DIANNE STEED’S CHILD] MARRIED
    > > RULON JEFFS AS HIS 50TH WIFE AT 15.{NICHOLE’S AGE}
    > > JULIA JOHNSON MARRIED IAN BARLOW AT 14.
    > > GENIEL BARLOW MARRIED GUY JESSOP 15 OR 16
    > > DAISY BARLOW MARRIED DAVID STEED [48 YRS. OLD] AT 16
    > > VILATE ALLRED MARRIED AT 15
    > > DIANNA BELLE MARRIED LYLE JEFFS AT 16
    > > ****CANADA ****ROBERTA MACKERT JOHNSON MARRIED PALMER{Fat and
    > ugly
    > > and in 40’s} at 14 or15
    > > PAULENE BARLOW MARRIED LYLE JEFFS AT 17
    > > JENNY LYNN MARRIED 16
    > > ANNIE BARLOW MARRIED AT 15
    > > LUCELLE MUSSER MARRIED RULON FISCHER AT 14
    > > MARGY ANNE JOHNSON MARRIED 15
    > > RULON JEFFS WIVES UNDERAGE:::::
    > > 2 DAUGHTERS OF LAWERENCE
    > > STEED .
    > > 1 ” OF HEBER BROADBENT
    > > 3 OR 4 CANADIAN GIRLS
    > > 2 OR 3 ALLEN STEED’S DAUGHTERS
    > > SHANNA ZITTING MARRIED AT 15 OR 16
    > > 2 DAUGHTERS OF FRANK JESSOP ,{KATHY AND VELVET}
    > >
    > > Ask Jay for the other names I put together at his house. He has them in
    > his
    > > notebook.
    > >

  154. Every Legislator in Utah was bombarded with emails. The last two Attorney Generals there. The FBI in Utah, try steve Fillerup out of SLC

    I agree Utah was a stumbling block, but not because they were uninformed.

    Try Jerry Howe a Judicial Aide/Council to the legislature in Utah! In April 2003 we was given reams of info per the governor appointed Judge Eric Ludlow.

    If Utah enforced the law, there would have never been a TEXAS!

    Utah had ample raw data, but did not refine it by design.

    I still like Shurtleff, but believe the SafetyNet council AG created was a mistake being influenced by those practising the “Work” or “Principle”. The idea that only a polygamous can find abuses in a closed society, ignores the work of Apostates & Activist. If you have investigative authority and look, you will find abuses in and out of polygamy, but in most of the organized groups.

    Its rediculous that Hildale & Colorado city have their own police, they had their own judge until pressure had Judge Walter Steed removed!

  155. Long a go, Ben Bistline concerned for his mortality, gave me a series of floppy disks should he die by natural or un natural causes. He was not so blind when he typed these. Some appeared in his book revisions, some did not! Now on his death bed, what to do with these weighs on my mind. I was his insurance, in the same way, I emailed archived materials to others. The difference here, he directed his writings to me and I randomly hope some one retains what I post, fearing a computer crash, which did occur. I backed up some of my files, explaining why I still have OLD STUFF!

    “MY LIFE’S STORY
    BY BENJAMIN G. BISTLINE

    In November of 1987 a group (of about 35 families filed a lawsuit in the Federal Court at Salt Lake City, Utah, against the trustees of the United Effort Plan, a common law trust, an entity established in the late nineteen thirties and early nineteen forties under the control of the Priesthood group known as “Mormon Fundamentalists.” I was one of the group who filed this lawsuit, and my diary was demanded by the lawyers of the U.E.P. I felt very reluctant about surrendering this diary, and for this reason I decided to write no more in my diary. However, after a few months have gone by, I have decided to write a somewhat detailed history of my Life, as I believe that sometime in the future there will be those of my posterity who will be interested in this history. I did however decide to continue writing in my journal. I gave a modified version of the diary to the lawyers as I did not want Sam Barlow to have access to my private thoughts and writings. If there are any questions about what my journal contains in contrast to what the modified copy contains, the truth lies in my recorded journal. With these few words written here I’ll proceed with the project (November 3, 1988).”

    ONE WAY OR ANOTHER BEN BISTLINES KNOWLEDGE WILL SURVIVE AND LIVE ON! UTAH & ARIZONA SHOULD WONDER WHAT BEN HAS WRITTEN ABOUT THEM!

    Jay

  156. TT

    It may be your browser.

    Sometimes when you reboot you need to refill your name / email.

    BTW I saw an article where that statue was

    1. currently in 7 peices in Texas and

    2. Slated for erection in shortcreek

    Lyle warned of something big about to happen, maybe this is it?

    Oh goody now Utah can have a Burning Man party too!

  157. In directly, thanks to Jerald Tanner, now deceased this is an interesting read;

    Church Handbook
    of Instructions

    165 detailed pages of how a Stake operates. The debates on line about the FLDS church and mainstream church are pointless if you have detailed text on both groups. The mainstream church got an injuction against the Tanners to remove the text from their web site. But that only applied to entities in the United States.

    So there are many interesting observations to be made between FLDS vs LDS. Both operate as money corporations! To understand how the FLDS threaten the LDS you need to see how they are similiar. If I posted more, they would sic their lawyers on me or may?

  158. Protection means dumping information as fast as you can dump it.

    I don’t want to be paranoid, nor do I understand computers that well.

    I had a series of 3 attacks that I managed to fix with help.

    Then when my computer went in to be scanned to recover documents, there was a power failure in an entire building of a half dozen businesses. The computer interupted in this scan mode, made 85% of my data GONE!

    I am to logical to believe this was human caused, but wonder about the timing and whom I was in dialog with and what about. I am a critic and hounding the FBI as of the Jeffs trial.

    External storage existed but a very limited amount next to what was on my hard drive. Then strangely my hard drive was replaced, I use to get the old one back, but it went back to the manufacturer… hm….. am I just paranoid?

  159. To organize, go back to the beginning! The Press got us here, they are likely to stay involved! Gehrke is associated Press…

    My first connection;

    —– Original Message —–
    From: Jay Beswick
    To: Robert Gehrke
    Cc: Buster Johnson
    Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 12:07 PM
    Subject: Re: HEADS UP!

    Robert

    Others are coming out of the woodwork, I won’t get them all at once, but rather one at a time. Its not by my choosing, but those wanting to come out of the closet are feeding me a narrow diet. Tomorrow I will meet a Sherrie Burham who was raised in Hildale, I am going to meet her at the St. George Court House tomorrow where she will file a case against her parents in Hildale for Forgery, but the case she is pushing is civil as in small claims court. I will interview her and see if there is enough to get law enforcement involved. Another source has promised me a young woman who was traded at 15 with a family in Colorado City years back, she is of age and out of it now. Trust seems to be a stair stepping process and I obviously am not in touch with the organization of those who want a voice, but fear whom to provide info too. Lenore & Deloy started the ball rolling and I am now told that a trail of victims will follow. I have talked with Sherrie by phone and by tomorrow I will either give you her number or have her call from here. This may get very interesting! Jay

    ____________

    Buster Johnson is the county supervisor for Mohave county, he has the Colorado River areas. He was in this for me on August 23rd of 2000 and is willing to stay involved TODAY! He emailed the other day;

    —– Original Message —–
    From: Buster Johnson
    To: Jay Beswick
    Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 2:56 PM
    Subject: Re: HEADS UP!

    If you can just last long enough to get these people to talk. They have to come out fairly soon to keep the interest of the media up. If it takes to long the media will find a new story and without their pressure it is going to be hard to get the help we need

    Buster
    ______________

    When I first learned of Dan Fischer, before any of us understood what the LOST BOYS were;

    —– Original Message —–
    From: Jay Beswick
    To: Buster Johnson
    Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 3:47 PM
    Subject: Re: HEADS UP!

    Buster

    Its coming now! I have sent dozens of background emails to AP these past 6 hours. I have a new case for tomorrow that is a woman in her 20’s & by December, there is talk of a Press Conference in St. George of a dozen or more families like Lenore’s. One is very powerful with his own attorney’s the Trust crossed one guy to many. A guy with a home in Colorado City and a business in SLC with 1,000 employees was blind sighted by the UEP trust and he wants his pound of flesh. I believe we will see lawsuit and the press in waves one after another. I don’t know if they will save Lenore or not, but by 2002 Utah will be known for alot more that the Olympics. We are also seeing other experts lining up. In a month or 2 we will see players far more involved than I, but we could say, we were among the first few! I’ll give you more when I am allowed too. Jay

    I BELIEVE I WILL HAVE THE EARLIER EMAILS THAT WENT TO AUTHORITIES IN UTAH. LOSING 85% MEANS I STILL HAVE 1000 EMAILS. UTAH KNEW IT ALL, 11 YEARS A GO!

  160. My apology to RG, but in his reply is the KEY, to why this was ignored!

    The State Attorneys in Janet Napolitano in Arizona and Jan Grahm in Utah had allowed county district attorneys to chose their own cases and many were complicit with their local fundementalist groups! I have a few hundred of these declarations where government officials were contacted, in this case by an AP reporter. If he could not get traction, how could a victim or activist??????????????

    —– Original Message —–
    From: “Robert Gehrke”
    To: “Jay Beswick”
    Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 9:19 AM
    Subject: Re: Colorado City

    > Jay …
    >
    > No problem disregarding the weapons. It was too far afield for this
    > story, which is supposed to be focusing primarily on the lawsuits …
    > Lenore’s, Lucas’, Jason’s, etc.
    >
    > I got the email and I’m taking a look at it. I think I’m going to walk
    > down the street and see what kind of evidence file and affidavits they
    > have, although that might all be at the district court down there.
    >
    > As far as the governor and Jan Graham go, you won’t hear a peep. The
    > governor really stepped in a big pile of polygamy about two years ago
    > when he said the practice should probably be covered under the free
    > exercise clause of the First Amendment. He spent the next six months
    > backpedaling and apologizing for that remark. Now all he says is
    > something like this: Polygamy is illegal in the state of Utah. We have
    > laws that make it so. I don’t know what else we can do. As for the
    > attorney general, she is lame duck now and I think spends about 40
    > minutes a week in the office. However, her chief deputy told me this:
    >
    > Any effort to prosecute polygamists would have to come directly from the
    > county attorneys. There were three prosecutions in the last year in
    > Millard, Sevier and Juab counties. “You’re not seeing a large number of
    > those filed until you get some case law decisions on those cases
    > pending.” He went on to say, “There certainly are some difficulties in
    > filing the cases because you have to be able to establish that you have
    > a legitimate marriage and then another marriage on top of that and
    > typically these are not licensed marriages.” There are also issues of
    > equal protection. For example, if you prosecute polygamists, why not
    > prosecute adulterers and fornicators. Are you targeting them just
    > because they’re polygamists?
    >
    > Last year the Legislature set aside enough money to hire an investigator
    > specializing in fraud and abuse in “closed socieities” which everyone
    > said with a wink and a nod. You figure it out. However, there’s a
    > lawsuit filed by an employee in the Department of Public Safety claiming
    > DPS should’ve got the money for the investigator, so the AG can’t hire
    > anyone until the suit is settled.
    >
    > I got even less cooperation from the Arizona attorney general … just a
    > message that says, it’s up to county attorneys to handle these cases.
    > Nice leadership!
    >
    > Everyone here is waiting for the Tom Green case to see how it shakes
    > out.
    >
    > The story is about wrapped up … at least this one. Still, if you get
    > anything to make my jaw drop, send it along. Like I said, these issues
    > have been going on down there for 100 years and I don’t expect them to
    > to away any time soon, so neither am I.
    >
    > Thanks again
    > – RG

  161. I read that article about the WJ statue too Stamp, I found it here:
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/10/warren-jeffs-the-secret-statue-of-the-polygamy-cult-felon.html

  162. From the article

    “The statue, according to this source, is planned to go up next month at the activity center of the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints’ (FLDS) compound in Short Creek, on the Utah/Arizona border.

    At 38 feet, it will tower over a town where most of the buildings are one-story ranches and trailer homes.

    The gargantuan metal prophet is being constructed in seven pieces in a clandestine warehouse whose windows have been papered over in San Angelo, Texas, where Jeffs’ trial is being held, according to the source.

    The project is secret, or as FLDS term it, a “heavenly hush,” which means that anyone who discusses it will be kicked out of the sect. The inside source says that those building the statue believe that this their “way of showing them that they can’t take him away from us.””

    —————–

  163. Jay said this:” Protection means dumping information as fast as you can dump it.

    I don’t want to be paranoid, nor do I understand computers that well.

    I had a series of 3 attacks that I managed to fix with help. ”

    You are not paranoid.

    Not long after I started posting about the Warren Jeffs story and before broadband – I came home to find this on my computer.

    http://www.yes-tele.com/

    My computer guy had never seen this before. Went thru the whole thing and in my computer “history” it did not show up anywhere that I had visited the site nor did it show up as a pop up. He cleaned everything all out and did some other things. A year or two later I got nailed again.

    Facts are facts. There are more people interested in all this then nosey old ladies like myself trying to help kids. jmo

  164. “If you don’t like people laughing at your beliefs, don’t have such funny beliefs.”

  165. While I thought I might know who was so interested in my search activity I snooped around and found this guy.

    http://www.mormonzeitgeist.com/node/104

    I don’t know who he is nor have I made any contact with him. I’ve read some of his other stuff but it was his story about being hacked that caught my eye.

    Paranoia? or just one of many others that seem to have the same problems while searching for answers.

  166. Don’t know who Barney is over at the Standard Times, but this was a great response to their opinion piece:

    Day 5 : Warren wakes up and sits on edge of bed.Looking down,he sees a small white feather,lying on the floor between his feet.”What the…a feather,an ANGEL feather!” ” Praise be ! “Moroni was here last night,protecting me from these infidels.!! “I was right,God is on my side,this is a sign that everything I did and said was blessed by the Almighty”. It’s only a matter of time before the doors shall open,the guards and everyone that has suppressed me will be slain by the angels!” “My soul is bursting with happiness,blood will run in the streets and…
    Suddenly,Jeffs stops.He hears a guard plodding down the cell block.The guard stops and slowly turns to address the men behind bars.Wearing a scowl he says,”OK,listen up you bunch of miserable weenies,whoever catches that damn nasty pigeon that is loose in this place will get an extra portion of food at lunch.” I’m tired of cleaning up this bird crap !”. Warren’s face just drops.He turns and falls face down on his cot.
    The guard walks up to his cell and says,”Hey pervert,that town you cursed over in West Texas just got over five inches of rain today.”
    Jeffs just lays there,looking like Charlie Brown after Lucy yanks the football away again.

  167. Jay, don’t get me wrong, I am totally on the side of rooting out underage marriage and illegal activity, but when you keep posting inaccurate information, it just makes everyone look bad.

    Marsha Chatwin (mother:Esther Young & father: Marvin Wyler) 17 when she married Winston Blackmore.
    Esther Ruth age( same parents as Marsha) 13– just got married to a young guy! There are no marriage records to back this up.
    Deanna Chatwin 14–married Guy Blackmore an older guy –later 40′s or 50′s.Deanna was 15 when she married Guy in 1999
    Laree Chatwin married John Blackmore at 16
    Nycia,(married Guy Blackmore), Lucinda, (married Zane Blackmore), and Zelpha (married Winston Blackmore) No marriage record for Nycia or Lucinda, but Zelpha was 20 when she married Winston in 1994.
    Von Chatwin married a 15 year old Palmer girl (VERY RECENT)
    Stephen Chatwin married Elizabeth Palmer at 15 Elizabeth was at least 17 when she married Steven.
    David Chatwin married Guy Blackmore’s daughter at 15
    Troy Chatwin married Mac Blackmore’s daughter, Sarah, at 15
    Chris Chatwin married a Blackmore girl underage
    VICKI NEILSON (ELROY NEILSON’S DAUGHTER) married WARREN JEFFS at 16 years old According to records produced at WSJ’s trial, Vicki was 19 when she married Warren.Fische
    LUCILLE MUSSER (AMOS MUSSER’S DAUGHTER) married RULON FISCHER (in his 30′s) Sarah Lucille Musser, David Barlow Musser’s daughter married Rulon Fischer when she was 16.
    LAREE JOHNSON (LAMAR JOHNSON’S DAUGHTER) married RULON JEFFS AT 14 OR 15 years old Annie Laree Jessop married Warren Jeffs when she was 15. There was no Laree Johnson married to Rulon Jeffs.
    WARREN JEFFS married KENDALL JOHNSON’S daughter underage. Her mother is a MACKERT Warren Jeffs isn’t married to a daughter of Kendall Johnson.
    DIANNA LANE (ED LANE’S DAUGHTER) 16 or 17, went to Canada to visit her sister that was married to Winston Blackmore. She ended up married to him underage. Diana was around 18 when she married Winston.
    ALVIN BARLOW has 4 daughters married to Winston Blackmore. One: (EDITH) WAS DEFINITELY MARRIED TO HIM UNDERAGE! Edith was 17 when she married Winston.
    JOHN JOHNSON has 4 daughters married to Winston Blackmore. (SHARON AND MARJORIE) were underage! Marjorie Johnson was 19 when she married Winston. Sharon was 20.
    (2 CANADIAN GIRLS TRANSPORTED ACROSS THE BOARDER AT 14 OR 15 TO BE COHABITATED WITH (FOR LEWD PURPOSES)! SHARON OLLER & MARJORIE OLLER TO COHABITATE WITH KENDELL JOHNSON JR. in Colorado City, Arizona. Sharon Oler was 17 when she married Kendall Johnson Jr. There is no record of him marrying Marjorie Oler. He married Carnita Delight Oler when she was 18.
    CAMILLE STEED (LAWRENCE STEED’S DAUGHTER) cohabitated with BOB BARLOW (son of DAN BARLOW) at the age of 16. Camille Steed married Bob Barlow when she was 21.
    PATRICIA JESSOP (DAUGHTER TO JOE C. & PAT JESSOP) cohabitated underage with JOHN Y. BARLOW. She was 17 when she married him in 1988.
    LESEILLE JESSOP(DAUGHTER OF PEGGY AND HYRUM JESSOP) 16 yrs got married to a BARLOW Can’t find this person in the records.
    CINDY HOLM 15 MARRIED RON BARLOW JR. Cunthia Holm was 16 when she married Leslie James Barlow Jr.
    SANDY MELDRUM 15 MARRIED Sandra Meldrum was 18 when she married Jonathan Stephen Peine
    RUTH STUBBS14 MARRIED RODNEY HOLM [POLICE-OFFICER]
    SHIRLEY BLACKMORE 15 MARRIED***CANADA***
    SOPHIA STEED 14 MARRIED, SHIPPED TO CANADA BARELY OUT OF THE 8TH GRADE
    LOUISA JOHNSON *WILD* 14 MARRIED DALE BARLOW AS 3RD WIFE She was 16 when she was married to Dale.
    RACHAEL COOKE 14 OR 15 MARRIEDShe was 19 when she married Dan Bradshaw.
    ELLEN COOKE 14 OR 15 MARRIED ***CANADA*** Ellen Cooke was 17 when she married Alma Porter Peine.
    MARY CHATWIN [NICHOLE’S BEST FRIEND]MARRIED MAC BLACKMORE’S SON AT 15. ALSO **MARA LEE CHATWIN MARRIED THE SAME MAN.[SHE IS NOT HAPPY!!!!!] Don’t have a DOB for either Mery or MarLee Chatwin.
    ESTHER ALLRED MARRIED AT 15 The only Esther Allred I can find married Nephi Jeffs at 20.
    ESTHER BARLOW, [ SAM BARLOW’S AND DIANNE STEED’S CHILD] MARRIED
    RULON JEFFS AS HIS 50TH WIFE AT 15.{NICHOLE’S AGE} She was his 52nd wife and she was 16.
    JULIA JOHNSON MARRIED IAN BARLOW AT 14. Don’t have a record of this at all.
    GENIEL BARLOW MARRIED GUY JESSOP 15 OR 16 She was 17 when she married Guy Hunter Jessop.
    DAISY BARLOW MARRIED DAVID STEED [48 YRS. OLD] AT 16 Daisy Barlow was 18 when she married David Johnson Steed
    VILATE ALLRED MARRIED AT 15 Need more information on this one. Can’t find a marriage record.
    DIANNA BELLE MARRIED LYLE JEFFS AT 16 Dianabel had just turned 18 when she married Lyle.
    ****CANADA ****ROBERTA MACKERT JOHNSON MARRIED PALMER{Fat and ugly
    and in 40′s} at 14 or15 Roberta Mackert Johnson was 18 when she married Morgan Shane Palmer.
    PAULENE BARLOW MARRIED LYLE JEFFS AT 17 She was 22 when she married Lyle.
    JENNY LYNN MARRIED 16 Need more information, like a last name.
    ANNIE BARLOW MARRIED AT 15 Annie Barlow married James Nathaniel Steed at 19.
    MARGY ANNE JOHNSON MARRIED 15 Marjie Ann Johnson married Lavoy Jeremiah Jessop at age 16.
    RULON JEFFS WIVES UNDERAGE:::::
    2 DAUGHTERS OF LAWERENCE STEED Roberta married Rulon when she was 23, and Rebecca Fern was 21. Eliza Marjean was 20, .
    1 ” OF HEBER BROADBENT There is no record of Rulon marrying a Broadbent.
    3 OR 4 CANADIAN GIRLS Kathleen Susan Blackmore was 19, Anna Mae Blackmore was 18. Those are the only Canadian girls Rulon married.
    2 OR 3 ALLEN STEED’S DAUGHTERS Zavenda was 19
    SHANNA ZITTING MARRIED AT 15 OR 16
    2 DAUGHTERS OF FRANK JESSOP ,{KATHY AND VELVET} Velvet was 22 and Kathryn was 18.

  168. Anonymous said this on August 13, 2011 at 7:43 PM

    In reply, that was excellent, here’s the link to read the editorial piece as well as the comments.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/aug/13/our-opinion-jeffs-perverted-his-religion-to-sex/

    Liked the comments of the poster from SLC UT, and agree with the opinion piece on Judge Walther.

  169. Also we can look foward to that ole felonious profit to make another court appearance before Judge Walther, his third felony, three strikes your out, court appearance on bigamy charges.

    Here’s more from the San Angelo paper:

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/aug/13/state-pursues-bigamy-charge/

  170. Raw Data I believe I stated, I was cc’d by Lenore. The point was the FBI was contacted in September of 2000. Such requires investigative authority, which occured since. Data 11 years a go unrefined, will be different after what occured in Texas including DNA. Most investigations begin with leeds. I have later emails, more defined, but they are not 11 years old!

  171. where is this activity center in short creek ? there is the storehouse & the meeting house, is that watts meant by activity center 4 the metal prophet ? I’m reminded of wizard of oz characters : scarecrow- no brain, tin man- no heart, & cowardly lion, that’s watt WSJ reminds me of ! the whole mess there is like a 3 ring circus, with the clowns running the circus ( lol )

  172. as 4 building the metal prophet statue , sounds like idol worship coming soon 2 CCA/ Hildale area , 2 me,,,, his sheeple will probably bow down 2 it ! next question ? will it B a bronze or a golden statue/calf of WSJ ? (LOL )

  173. The Holm Activity Center? Is it still there?

    I’m going to have to drive down there to see this if it’s true. Put a statue of a pedophile up. If that doesn’t beat all I’ve ever seen.

    Put nothing past Short Crickers…..

  174. Ron White of the Blue Collar Comedy Tour said it best : You can’t fix stupid ! (LOL)

  175. Interesting find – as per Helen Radkey : Excommunicated Mormon polygamist, RULON (TIMPSON) JEFFS, deceased father of convicted serial pedophile, WARREN JEFFS, was posthumously baptized & sealed to 4 of his many wives by the LDS church in 2005. August 5, 2010, RULON JEFFS, who died in 2002, was listed with four of his many wives in New FamilySearch, the current LDS database for the dead. The record for Jeffs has disappeared. Mormons have purged that entry from New FamilySearch.

  176. Seems to me that many have been worshipping a pedo for 176+ years, if you count Joseph Smith’s celestial weddin’s” to several gals under 17 years old…

    Most mainstream lds still won’t face any of it. Most of the population of the state of Utah can trace its lineage easily to mormon pioneers, many of whom practiced what Smith and B Young said they had to… This is the obvious reason why Utah can’t get much done. In the 50’s when the governor tried to get a handle on it, he was trounced heavily by public opinion and then lost his office. Why do people think anything successfull will happen from the top down, with a social history fabric like that? There are people all the way up to the US Senate, and in many other influential positions in Utah who have roots in early lds practices.
    The only thing that is ever going to permanently curb the madness out there is a permanent change of heart away from it, one person and family at a time. Plus we keep getting reports of polygamy supposedly being on the increase in spite of its miserable record. It’s the sin-sick human heart, just like always.

  177. The statue may have to be moved to the Temple after the Denver court takes the UEP apart.

    Maybe they could place the three story statue looking into the window of the top floor of the three story Temple?

    That would be quite appropriate – I suppose someone will photoshop that before it ever happens!

  178. Good post gretchen. Here is a really good example of how to ignore the obvious. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700170419/Warren-Jeffs-and-the-abandonment-of-tradition.html

    I’d like to see Doris Hanson visit with this guy on her show. 🙂

    From the link:

    There is no formal connection between Jeffs’ FLDS Church and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as the Mormon Church is formally known. From 1852 until 1890, however, the Mormon Church did publically teach and practice polygamy as a way of imitating biblical prophets.

    One of the formal connections is LDS President John Taylor. Another connection is leading those to believe that even if they practice polygamy today and are “excommunicated” they still are allowed into their heaves via the back door.

    BiB mentioned that a search for the Jeffs family can’t be found in the NewFAmily Search. I am wondering if they still have the many others. Rulon Allred, Ervil LeBaron etc.

    If there is such a statue of Jeffs going up, I don’t believe that the FLDS are the ones doing it. However the LDS have for years had statues of Brigham Young, Joseph Smith and John Taylor displayed in many places.

  179. A new post from the Polygamist’s Daughter’s Blog :

    http://thepolygamistsdaughter.wordpress.com/2011/08/12/equality-for-women/

  180. Stamp do you know if there was ever list made available to the public of all the arrests made in the 53 raid?

    And does anyone know what agreements they signed with the Government concerning polygamy?

  181. My point is that if they did investigate a few and found them to be false then they probably blew off the rest of the list and probably also blew off any subsequent lists as being wrong too, especially if the old data was included.

  182. walton

    I havent followed the 53 raid too much, except its known that Rulon escaped to CA to wait till it blew over and Warren was born a premie in Sacramento.

    I do recall there were a lot of agreements made with the government by people who were released early, which were soon ignored.

    History repeated itself with a nice little echo.

  183. Thanks Stamp. Now… do you know if there are any documents available way back when the Govt. started confiscating properties etc. from the LDS Church?

    The reason I am asking is because I think there is a mix up in the agreement clause somewhere.

    I also think that there was a HUGE lack of communication from the LDS Church to many of it’s members. Too many meeting houses and too many in between people. imo

    I might not believe in the LDS faith but I honestly think that most are unaware of the rest of the history. jmo

    BiB Polygamist daughter brought up a lot of good points.

  184. So does anyone know how many wives Lyle has?? How many were/are children?
    I am guessing that Lyle has at least 78 more wives now?

  185. I made a new blog post, if anyone cares. http://yehaaa6.wordpress.com/

  186. the flds can’t put up a statue? BS BS BS ! they will do whatever WSJ lieutenants , WSJ or his sheeple decide, remember they love the pedophile ! so the sheeple will B happy they have a metal prophet statue 2 remind them of Y they can’t converse with him……still sounds like idol worship 2 me ! they R SHEEPLE & their stupid enough 2 follow him ! his sheeple believe they & WSJ have been wronged …… Lyle Jeffs looks like he’s going incognito, or maybe he’s been doing 2 much prozac or some other some other drugs, I’ll bet he’s got red, blood shot eyes now (lol) or maybe it’s a new look 4 him look like a playboy , Y not he has a different woman every night ! these sheeple will do stupid things 4 their prophet, you can’t fix stupid ! lol lol lol he’s in jail & the sheeple can’t accept that, sound like a Jim Jones saga 2 me & could result in same end……..

  187. I know & heard of people in CCA whose children (FLDS ) & teenagers have a attitude, R insolent, & have a mouthy personality, some adults have those same problems mentioned above, there’s nothing 2 B done about it, that’s the way their raised from childhood, apostates & gentiles R fair game when they decide 2 B insulting !!!!! I have a saying I stick by ” being an ass doesn’t make you better, holier; or superior, it just makes you an ass ! ” somebody recently quoted a saying by Mark Twain : ” better 2 have people think you’re a fool, than make a comment & remove all doubt ” !!!!!!!!!!! You could turn blue, before you ever get these sheeple & their children teenagers 2 change ……….. all I can say is “GOOD LUCK ” if you can !!!!!!!!!

  188. Please me more of an attempt in the future to author more thought out, better written posts. Those last two were a mess.

  189. guessing they were written on a phone, but still.

  190. Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.
    Was Abraham Lincoln anyway but, whatever.
    —————
    I know of two of Lyle’s wives and their 5 & 6 children each. He’s bound to have had more……….
    Any help out there????

  191. Perhaps if any of you out there live in San Angelo, TX and can locate warehouse where the statue of the felonious profit is being bulit. And keep an eye out when they try to move it to Colorado City,AZ/Hildale,UT.

    Something this large will have to be shipped in pieces on large trucks/trailers, so it going to be difficult to hide.

    Of course this could be a FLDS disinformation project to distract from some sort of evil or dangerous project. Or in other words there might not be a statue under construction, just a story to distract from what they are really up too.

    In any case hope that someone is watching, who knows maybe they are hatching up some looney plan to spring Jeffs from Huntsville, the statue story designed to throw folks off from an escape plan to spring that felonious profit.

  192. Didn’t Lyle marry a 16 year old and was mentioned in Warren’s dictations. Lyle asked Warren if he should wait until his new wife is of age to have children with her. Warren says in the dictations, ‘I told him to live in the Law now, there are no underage marriages in Priesthood’

  193. I thought they were going to put it up at YFZ? There is a clip at KSL and Issac Wyler said it would be 180 degree spin on what they were taught. And it really would be.

    IF someone is making a statue I don’t think it is being made by current FLDS members.

  194. No way at all anyone will be able to spring anyone from a state prison…his conviction would have to be overturned, and I absolutely can’t see that happening. Judge Walthers and all concerned were very careful to check and recheck procedures so that no appeal would be possible. It is obvious Warren is dangerous and cannot be released.

    There are, and will continue to be numerous more lawsuits against flds and Warren. There are going to be more rulings against them that cannot be overturned. No, they won’t believe it, and no, they aren’t the only lawbreakers around, everyone knows that, but their number has finally been called.

  195. I mean, no successful appeal would be possible.
    Walthers gave him every reminder to not fire all his attorneys. No judge will hear everything on record that she tried to do to help him, and then rule against her judgment, which followed a careful jury selection and multiple delays by Warren, both before and during the trial. His threats in court SHOULD be added into the mix, on top of his obvious danger as a multiple capital offense felon. He’s not coming out… flds can go ahead and fall down and worship and spend themselves into the ground. It’s reckoning time for them. There are hundreds of innocent children, youth, and young adults that must be prayed for. They are not responsible for what they were born into. I don’t know if a second “raid” can take place, but there need to be new interventions at all flds encampments in the near future, if legally possible. I still am not convinced there is not going to be some kind of conflagration. It should be crystal clear to all that flds has many people who cannot be getting the truth, or safe living conditions.

  196. Lyle has 9 wives, and 1 of them, Mable, was underage.

  197. Lyle has 10 children with Charlene, 8 with Pauline, 5 with Dianabel, 1 with Mable, 5 step-children with Lenora, 0 with Margaret, 0 with Luella, 0 with Megan and 4 step-children with Christine.

    He probably has more, I think the last 1 have have listed was born in 2007.

    So he has at least 24 children and 9 step-children.

  198. From today’s Edmonton Journal, by Lorne Gunter : Bountiful’s Children Deserve Better

    The RCMP is investigating the alleged unlawful movement of girls from Bountiful, B.C., to the United States.

    Finally, the RCMP have begun taking seriously allegations of child sexual exploitation in the fundamentalist Mormon community of Bountiful, B.C. The Mounties announced Thursday evening they had begun investigating reports that up to 30 girls aged 12 to 17 had been sent by the residents of
    Bountiful to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS) in San Angelo, Tex. to be force-married to older men who lived in the FLDS compound there.
    The story of Bountiful came to light again last week with the conviction of Warren Jeffs, the leader – or “prophet” – of the FLDS, who was also head of the San Angelo commune. A jury found Jeffs guilty of aggravated child sexual assault after hearing recordings of him ritualistically raping 12-year-old girls in the sanctuary of his Texas temple while other adults, including the girls’ parents, looked on.

    As part of court proceedings against Jeffs, it was learned that of his 78 wives, 24 were under the age of consent (17 years old) in Texas when they married and of those 24, at least five had been brought from Bountiful, B.C. to be “forever spiritually bound” to the cultish, charismatic leader. Up to 25 more had been brought for marriage to other men in the Texas branch.
    In response to the evidence presented at the trial of Jeffs, RCMP Cpl. Dan Moskaluk said, “the RCMP anticipates sending investigators to Texas in the future.”
    It’s curious, Cpl. Moskaluk said “future,” rather than “near future.” But then again, dawdling has long characterized the way B.C. childwelfare officials and Mounties have treated allegations against Bountiful’s domineering leaders. Fearful of upsetting the leaders’ Charter right to religious freedom, police and bureaucrats have been slow to the point of inert when looking into complaints that children and women have been physically and psychologically abused there.
    For reasons that are hard to fathom, officers and social workers have seemed incapable of separating the religious/constitutional argument in favour of polygamy from reports that women and children are cut off from the outside world, threatened with corporal punishment and occasionally even tortured to keep them devoted to the insular community.

    It’s as if officials are worried that a court that is currently deciding whether Canada’s ban on polygamy is unconstitutional might rule that child-bride trafficking and waterboarding toddlers are Charter-protected religious rights, too. So they have been unprepared to step in to protect children in Bountiful because their intervention might be taken as an infringement on freedom of religion.

    The tragedy is that Mounties and child-protection bureaucrats have known of the complaints against Bountiful’s leaders since at least 2008. That’s when their Texas counterparts raided Jeffs’ Yearning for Zion Ranch and escorted most of the children and many of the women there into state care after multiple allegations of abuse had been received. As they questioned the women and children, the Bountiful connection surfaced and B.C. officials were called.

    The legal status of the polygamous B.C. community has long been questioned, which somehow seemed to freeze Canadian police and child protection agents. The B.C. Attorney General has long sought ways to close down the Bountiful compound and end the multiple marriage occurring there, but has been held back by independent legal opinions explaining that any attempt to try Bountiful residents for polygamy would be unsuccessful. A Charter case seeking protection for the practice would likely strike down the laws forbidding it.

    Still, whether or not a British Columbia court eventually decides that polygamy should be legal in Canada, there is no excuse to ignore credible reports of abuse of children and women in Bountiful. Even if a judge decides the Charter protects the right of FLDS believers to practice what they call “celestial marriage,” that will never indemnify individuals within Bountiful (or any other polygamist community) against prosecution for criminal abuses they commit against their wives and children.

    In addition to facts that came out in the Jeffs’ trial in Texas, during the B.C. court hearings of the polygamy challenge – that ran from last November through to April – other disturbing activity at Bountiful was described, such as holding the heads of infants and toddlers under running water until they nearly drown to make them respectful of community leaders and use of substandard education and sequestration from the outside world to keep community members dependent on the leaders and willing to obey their orders.

    One young man who fled Bountiful told the court that young people were discouraged from completing high school and that he personally had never heard of college or university until he left the isolated town. Other testified they had been kept illiterate as a way of keeping them fearful of what lay beyond their fences.

    I can see where the courts might accept the argument that polygamy in and of itself is not abusive – that consenting adults could enter into such weird and creepy relationships of their own free-will.

    But no child can make such an informed decision. So it is entirely unacceptable that officials have waited this long to step in on behalf of Bountiful’s young people.

  199. to anonymous @ 3 ;25 pm———-apparently U haven’t heard of computerese , it’s a lot less time writing these posts,,,,apparently U R perfect U sound like FLDS 2 me,they believe they R perfect, all apostates, & gentiles R imperfect trash !!!!!! Well I would rather B considered imperfect trash……. None of us R perfect ! Not even U,were all imperfect humans, despite watt the FLDS thinks,as 4 my writing, U can kiss my rosy red !#* thank U very much !!!!!!!!!

  200. anonymous, “computerese” makes you sound like a child or a teenager, and hard to take seriously, to be fair.

  201. Hey now, no exflds fighting allowed – I think you’re on the same side?

    Anyway, I was thinking that Statue might be a Trojan Horse, mebbe they are gonna wheel it up to the gate at Huntsville, and when they let it in, Warrens fiends will pounce and rescue him from prison..

    ??

  202. to yehaaa6 : Wrong, Wrong, WRONG !!!!!! Never !#*ume, it makes an *#! out of U and ME !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  203. I love you too, anonymous. like Stamp said, I won’t fight. just sayin’

    The trojan horse idea sounds extremely silly, and would land more than a few of them in jail. might be humorous for the evening news though.

  204. Thank you SO much Proud Texan for the answers on Lyle, I knew you would know.

  205. Too bad the folks up the crick “assumed” Warren was Prophet

    – yeah, him, and then them…

  206. Rulon T. Jeffs Doctrine & Theology Text

    ZION’S LIGHT SHINING

    Volume 1 First Edition

    685 pages

    FLDS vs LDS Doctrine (discources)

    Merrill Jessop & Warren Jeffs quotes

    on ebay;

    Doctrine of Convicted Polygamous Warren Jeffs 685 pages – 200641630186

    Short cut to becoming an expert on the FLDS

  207. Anon who is using the computerese, yehaa is right, it just makes you look like a child. Please write so we can read it. If I have to try to decipher it then I’ll just pass it up and you might be saying something that I really need to hear.

    Again, please just write plainly and don’t make me have to decipher.

  208. No problem 2morrowpeople. glad to help.

  209. Ahhhhhhh GO TO HE ** !!!!!!!!!! how long have U Proud Texan been using the computer ? U can’t decipher or figure out what I’m writing ? Maybe U should go back 2 school & learn how 2 write posts with less words, what’s wrong with computerese ? I would much rather use this writing than write a long post, apparently U can’t figure out an easier way to write posts, not angry with U , I’m just saying- don’t say my writing makes me look like a child,,,,,that’s very insulting, apparently I can’t write perfect or state my opinion without some of U making insulting comments about my penmanship, who died & made U boss !!!! there R many bloggers who can’t write or spell words on this post,you’re not giving them a bad time ????
    I don’t why I’m writing this or Y I’m on this blog, if all I’m going 2 get is insults about my penmanship & the way I express myself …….

  210. Don’t pick on the anon directly above anymore about (his?) computerese- it’s ok, we can make out what you’re saying just fine- I use abbreviations often myself when I text because I have lots of soreness some days…Plus, you got some things correct that many people don’t, by the way!! –you used you’re for you are, when LOTS of people incorrectly say your….Hey, to me, it seems you are definitely on the side of decency and justice. I don’t supervise this blog, but I vote for you to please keep blogging here if you want, because I think you will be saying things that help and encourage, and will give us some insight on flds. This has been a long, stressful battle, especially lately, with more rounds to come. You are needed, computerese dude(I think it’s a dude, anyway!) So hang on-

    and yo,
    Proud Tex- I took the liberty of saying this bc I think anon.10:14 above (Computerese) is needed, and also needs our moral support. Hey, life is busy- texting is here 2 stay… we all need all the moral support we can possibly get… yo, here’s 2 PT, + also, 2 Compu-dude above… hehehe

  211. Most of the users on the blog use words and not texting, but there’s room here for everyone who wants to be a part of the group.

    Maybe the anon can give us a few texting pointers.

  212. One question, who has the porche?

    pathgirl said this on August 12, 2011 at 9:00 PM

    Good question pathgirl. I just love how scientists think! LOL

  213. It is the responsibility of the public to report crimes it is the responsibility of LE to investigate and get evidence. RCMP kissed up to Winston for years as did all of B.C. including those agencies that were to protect children. Letters were sent naming Winston’s wives and those that were trafficked from the U.S. and their ages Did they really need more than that to investigate? Girls that were taken to the U.S. were also named.

    blackbird said this on August 12, 2011 at 9:22 PM
    Blackbird, it was more than the RCMP kissing up to Winston! It was a lot of the people involved in preventing the problems kissing Winks butt – Mark Shurtleff, Gary Engel, Sam Brower, Roger Hoole. In 2005 they thought Winston was SUCH a great guy because he was speaking out against Warren (and deflecting his own culpability in the process). Gag me with a spoon!

  214. I’ve had my own crash course in texting from my own children (who are now grown and still text) It is a bit more difficult to read, being use to conventional typists. But it’s understandable. I guess I am just more old school, I hope this younger generation doesn’t forget spelling and grammar in the English language though. 2 easy 4 u 2 do. LOL!

    ————-

    How has anyone kept up with the wife swapping through the expulsions and re assignments? It gives me a headache!! As if the names aren’t enough of a nightmare, often times using the same names over and over again, in mix and match order. Going to multiple husbands, mixing up kids, having more kids, switching States, wow………….

    Now there are Warrens wives that have been dolled out to where ever and whoever. The wives of the other arrests, scattered like buckshot. It’s like trying to keep up with a flock of birds. I’m dizzy. Thank you to everyone here, it’s so much help.

    ————-

    And I sure hope through the diligence of the Texas investigation, that more of these cover ups, and back room deals will be exposed. That have gone on in Utah, Arizona and Canada. The aiding and abetting of Warren Jeffs, and many of his followers, will surface as evidence. And the UEP will eventually settle against Warren Jeffs.

    ————-

    And Proud Texan, anything new on the search for Winnie Chloe?

  215. And I’m guessing Lyle got the Porsche, I ask that a while back too. LOL!

  216. Nope, no sign of WinnieKloe. Also, I don’t think the wives of Warren and the others will be given out to others, remember those men are considered martyrs to the cause.

    As for the Porsche, my best guess is that it was abandoned somewhere like the motorcycles were and many other vehicles that were purchased for driving the fugitive profit.

  217. To Proud Texan
    Abandond? WOW, they could have abondond it in my back yard! LOL. Maybe they were siezed too. The money that the Jeffs and others have scammed and burned, at the backs of their followers, is just unbelieveable. It’s is just amazing that they have bought into this ruse at such an expense.
    The cost is just staggering.
    Does Winnie have a sister named Marie?

  218. Computereze does not include misuse of “their”, “there”, “your”, “you’re” and similar grammatical errors. That’s not being hip, it’s being ignorant of basic grade school English. Yes, everyone is welcome,but if it is difiicult (or painful) to read your posts, people are likely to stop reading your posts. And you can tell people to go to hell, but that’s not really going to get them to listen to you, either.

  219. Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding. — Bible, ‘Proverbs’ 17:28.

  220. Her mother is Marie and she has a 1/2 sister named Rose Marie.

  221. Proud Texan –
    I know some Broadbents and some Steeds, I’m going to ask and see if they know anything. I taking this on as a mission LOL! As a challenge. LOL!
    I am going to try to find out. I’m still guessing Nevada. But no evidence of that. And I have no handle or connections in Nevada either, just Utah, so I may just be lost.

    Still even wondering why she was released? She must have been in good standing at one time or she wouldn’t have been at YFZ. Then Poof! A true curiosity. One of Warrens bad days I suppose.
    I knew of Mother “Marie H.” and of one sister Tamera S. A.” I was just thinking there was another Sister Marie. Guess not.

    Hopefully someone will know.

  222. Thanks 2morrowpeople. I’m not sure why she was released or if she was. I first heard about her during the Abram Jeffs trial. In the bad acts, it was brought up that he was ordered to remove her from the YFZ immediately. I’ll look up the dictation and see if I can find more details.

  223. I think the person using computerese has left anyway, and I will repeat, the way he was communicating didn’t matter nearly as much as what he was trying to say. He should not have been criticized as he was. I believe he is a young man who grew up in flds and really needs our support. Hopefully he will find it elsewhere, and never go back to thinking “we gentiles” are worthless, in spite of what just happened needlessly on this blog to him.

    Many well-educated people are making grammatical errors on the ‘net these days. It isn’t going to stop. We are living in a day of overwhelming information load and hectic lives, and nitpicking is everywhere also, in case you haven’t noticed.

    As for the Proverbs quote above,I am a devout Bible believer too, let’s not start infighting by criticizing one another. The only way something gets said is to “open the lips.” Every single one of us has been guilty of unwise speech in our lives. Let’s get off the intramural pulpit now.

  224. WinnieKloe’s father was Thomas Steed. When he died, her mother, Marie Louise Holm was assigned to Thomas’ brother Joseph. Joseph was subsequently exed and his wives were reassigned. Marie got assigned to the ever popular deadbeat dad Merril Jessop on June 8, 2006. That assignment happened at the YFZ. Not sure who she’s been assigned to after Merril got the boot.

    It looks like Marie and Thomas had 9 kids, then Marie had 7 more with Joseph. Tamara appears to be the oldest and she was also assigned to Warren after Rulon died.

  225. I understand what you are saying gretchen, but you have to admit that it is hard to read. Hopefully he/she’ll be back.

  226. Now that Warren’s trial is over, I thought take a quick post to introduce myself — sort of! I have lurked at this site for several years now and found it to be the single most informative place on the internet re the people and events w/in the community. I am one of the cursed ad litems ( that’s curs’ed BTW) appointed for the 14 day hearing back in 2008. I have been haunted by the 3 mothers and their children that I was assigned to represent. So, privately, I began avidly following this blog just in case any info on them or their larger families ever came up. One of “my” mothers was married to one of the indicted men as best I can tell, but none of the three were married to Warren Jeffs nor were the children they had with them old enough to have been conceived underage. So, the publicly released records don’t really have info that I didn’t already have. It’s the responses from the folks who know who married whom and which couples produced which children that I value most! Thanks for all that you do!

    I survived/escaped a MUCH less severe but still abusive religious environment and understand some things that a lot of folks don’t “get”. But, just for the record, while I never doubted the unhealthiness of the situation at the ranch, I still had to disagree with an en masse 14 day hearing because my particular children were infants and toddlers who — after weighing the benefits of being warehoused vs. living in their familiar homes — probably would have been better served by remaining at their homes with frequent monitoring. In other words, the law was being bent too far IMO, but I don’t disagree with the motive behind the removal. Clear as mud?

    Anyway, that’s a little bit about me. In case anyone was wondering.

  227. Most helpful info Proud Texan, so we are talking about the same Marie Steed that petitioned the Tx. Supreme Ct. for the return of her children at YFZ, right?
    Winnie being Tamara’s sister, being married to Rulon, then to Warren, and then disappeared via Abram Jeffs in 2005. OH the tangled web these folks weave. Tamara also shows up as an Allred but, then so do some Jeffs. Just checking to be sure we are on the same page before I go to asking about her. LOL! Nothing to unusual about the name Marie in this clan ya know. Geez, as funny as it is not, I just have to laugh sometimes.

  228. Sbunne

    Thanks for sharing.

    Remember though – those 3 year old toddlers are now 6 – halfway to marriage age on the Yearning for Zippers Ranch…

    There is no real guarantee these children wont be further abused despite Warren’s imprisonment.

    You’ve seen the attitude of the people – denying it ever happened yet the same women who denied it were found to have children given up as child brides –

    And that fancy TEMPLE that is nothing more than a glorified child sex orgy house.

  229. Proud Texan –
    Have you read this? http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:fXdYK2u_lNIJ:phrecords.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/mar-24-2005.pdf+winnie+steed+merrill+jessop&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com ( I hope this link works)
    scroll down to page 16, on the right, second paragraph down. It mentions moving “Mother Winnie” to Robert Allred’s house in Henderson.
    You have probably seen this at some point. But if not I thought it might be of interest to you.

  230. Sbunne, if you send me an email, I might can help you figure out where your people are. My email is proudtexan09 @ gmail . com

  231. Admins,

    Perhaps an ongoing thread for people who are looking for help locating family/friends?

    I would hate to see them lost in the shuffle.

  232. Re. Anon 12:28, yes I know. If they had been 6 then, I would have had a harder internal struggle. Even so, I would still have taken the same position, though.

    You’ve heard the saying that sometimes hard cases make bad law? Well, Texas has some pretty good chlld protection laws on the books (IMO) that manage to strike a sort of balance between the need to protect children and the privacy/freedom rights of families. While it’s true that applying those laws under the FLDS circumstances didn’t come out “right”, if the courts had not insisted on following them then a precedent would have been set that upsets the “balance”.

    We can’t have laws that apply to everyone but are allowed to be disregarded sometimes by an agency that already has broad powers and operates largely upon judgment calls. I am not bashing CPS — I have great respect for the agency and its workers. I’m talking about policy decisions affecting the entire state and all its citizens — not just FLDS children under circumstances that no one could have possibly foreseen when the laws were drafted.

    All that said, I would love to see lots and lots of follow-up visits by CPS to the ranch. And if they see anything hinky at any time, NOW there is ample evidence and changes to the law that would (IMO) support removing even the little ones. I would love to know if there’s any way to do “welfare checks” on the residents. Or to even find out who the residents are these days!

  233. Proud Texan, thank you. I will do so!

  234. Sorry Texastwist I will refrain and step out, I did not mean to be a bother. You all have been more than kind.
    However the thread you mention would be a good one for those that are looking.

  235. 2morrowpeople, don’t you go anywhere, we’re going to find WinnieKloe!!!

  236. You know me from the Trib Proud Texan, you ain’t loosin me that easy! LOL!. And YES we are going to find her!

  237. I’ve got to dig out my Abram Jeffs Bad Acts and see when it was WinnieKloe was hauled off. I found her in 2006 in a house of hiding run by Austin Knudson.

  238. About Feb 3, 2005 so the “Bad Acts” say

  239. gretchen, I think maybe you are being overly sensitive. Some one speculated that the quote came from Twain, another Lincoln and I was pointing out that a very similar one comes from the Bible. If you think that’s fighting, then I hate to see how you react to a real disagreement.

  240. After reading that dictation, maybe he just removed her from the YFZ and had Abram take her to this House of Hiding in Henderson. Hopefully that is all.

  241. Apparently at that time there were a few wives turning against Warren, at the time of that dictation he had only picked 11. Maybe all weren’t so keen on those “Heavenly Sessions” . I noted though that he still referred to Rulons wives a “Mother” something or another. I am still calling the Steed I know, they are a Utah Steed though, and I don’t know what they will know of any Nevada business, we’ll see.

  242. WinnieKloe didn’t have any children that I know of, so if she was at the ranch during April 2008, there wouldn’t really be any record of it in court papers.

    But then, would you want to be in a “heavenly session” with Warren? Maybe you’d get lucky and get your shot at it in the baptismal font that may or may not have Jacuzzi jets.

    Also remember he had more than 1 Quorum of 12. He had a Quorum of 12 16 year olds and then another Quorum of 12 that were 15 and under and he also had a Quorum of 12 that were mixed.

  243. 2morrowpeople said this on August 15, 2011 at 1:43 PM: Sorry Texastwist I will refrain and step out, I did not mean to be a bother. You all have been more than kind.
    However the thread you mention would be a good one for those that are looking.

    Oh, no. You misunderstood me.

    I think concerns and inquiries like these are very important and I would hate to see them get lost among some of the things that can dominate these General Discussion threads.

  244. Anon computerese dude,

    Maybe you aren’t really a child, but you do come across as an obnoxious little sh*t.

  245. Anon computerese dude, I just read your post on the “Thank you” thread. I apologize for calling you an obnoxious little sh*t. You have some good thoughts to add and I’ll try to deal with your texting them to us.

  246. From gosanangelo :
    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/aug/13/state-pursues-bigamy-charge

  247. I say go after Warren Jeffs for the bigamy and international child trafficking.

  248. BIB: I agree, also go after Jim Oler and Winston Blackmore, although Canada would probably need to take care of Winston.

  249. BIB, I agree and they should go after Jim Oler and Winston for the same things.

  250. The last BIB comment by me not BIB. Don’t know how it happened.

  251. Winston came to this country and married young girls just like Oler did. He also brought his young daughters to this country to be married off.

  252. Hey Proud Texan –
    I read the dictations last night. WOW, what a smorgasbord for a psychiatrist!!I clipped out a few references to Mother Winnie mostly in the Feb 2005 dictation Pg 47, 48 & 49.
    And a particularly sad one to me, Jan 2005 pg 30
    Warren writes:
    In the midst of that ordinance work I walked outside with my brother Abram and told him I wanted him to take Mother Winnie away from R17 before the 2:00 meeting. I gathered up Mother Winnie and told her she was released to her ordinances. i Said “the Lord allowed me to intervene for you that you would have the opportunity to repent and that you, Winnie, would be sent to live with my ladies scattered in the gentile cities and could work toward repentance”. And she was in the same condition as Melinda, having received the advanced ordinance of the love of God sealed with in her and yet broke her covenants. I Told her to pack and I would be sending her away soon. In The midst of the ordinance work Abram drove off with her as I had told him to leave before 2:00
    Winnie left a note yearning to qualify, expressing gratitude for the correction. She also wrote a note to the family trying to send a message to everyone to learn from her hard experience. I just shred that letter and did not let the family read it.
    ——————
    “Winnie left a note yearning to qualify, expressing gratitude for the correction.” Warren just makes me sick. However in continuing to read his dibble, I found that most if not all of the “ladies” were eventually returned to YFZ, sometime during 2006/2007 apparently. I guess with Warren on the run, it became necessary to simplify his ability to control, including the refuge houses, some of which were just rented in Nevada. I do not find a specific reference to “Winnie” yet but several others that were with her are mentioned. So I am “assuming” Former wife of Rulon, current wife of Warren, with no children yet, was likely moved along with the rest of them.
    She’s probably at YFZ, her Mother is, her sisters are, and herself likely as well. Unless the poor woman still had one sliver of independence left in her, and she split all together, which I doubt. She most likely went back to where her family is.
    I am still looking, and still calling, and hopefully will hear something of a confirmation of my suspicion.

  253. Thanks 2morrowpeople. While it isn’t good news that she’s at the ranch, at least she appears to be safe.

  254. Twitter – What do you say we voice our request for more FLDS prosecutions by bombarding Greg Abbott’s twitter account, especially Naomie Jessop Jeffs. Using the tag #FLDS. His account is @GregAbbott_TX.

    We can use twitter as a forum to get a message across.

  255. Oh crawling through those dictations, I could give Mr. Abbott a LONG list of my “personal” choices!! I feel pretty sure they will do everything they can, or can afford to do anyway. I’m sure they have much more evidence that isn’t released pertaining to eventual indictments, or wasn’t relevant to this case.

    Naomi certainly would be at the top of the list but, there are so many more. I want to see Utah step up. Will they? Probably not if they don’t have to. If they are not pinned right to the spot, Utah will slither out of doing anything at all.

    Hopefully Texas can get Naomi, I doubt Utah will pursue her.

    And seizing the UEP, or somehow disbanding it, would be a huge step too. And or seizing the YFZ if possible.

  256. Well hop to it 2morrowpeople. I’ve been told that Abbott reads his twitter feed. Let’s give him something to read.

  257. I’d like to see the parents, mostly the fathers, who delivered under aged girls to Warren, knowing full well he intended to “marry” them at that age.

  258. Regarding computerese – my 2 cents worth (maybe only worth 1 cent.)
    If you read a blog that is written in common English and then you choose to respond in computerese – then you do come out sounding less than brilliant to people like me who has yet to develop computerese dialect.
    Seems you should communicate in the same format as the blog is written in. I don’t buy it that just because you are on an IPhone your only choice is to write cryptic. I have plenty of friends who email and text me in common English from portable devices.

    Looks like Anderson Cooper will have some interesting news on tonight:
    ishestradacnn Ismael Estrada
    Just left Short Creek with @GaryTuchmanCNN. How is #FLDS community reacting now that Warren Jeffs is in prison for life? #ac360 at 8pm

    why is Brooke still using the Polgamy biline on Twitter?? doesn’t seem right unless unless she is taking back the SLC Trib blog
    ThePolygamyFile Brooke Adams
    Warren Jeffs’s parole eligibility date? July 22, 2038. #FLDS

  259. http://www.az-independent.com/2011/08/16/breaking-news-colorado-city-fire-chief-indicted/

    Colorado City indictment !

  260. May it be the first of many indictments.

  261. “Barlow is also charged with three counts of participating in a criminal syndicate in the Aug. 4 indictment.”

    Apparently RICO charges have been filed.

  262. Very pleased to learn that the corruption and mis-use of public money in Short Creek is finally being addressed. Hope amd pray that the flagrant abuses of civil rights and discrimination against apostaes will shortly be addressed.

  263. Here is the public record where they went in to seize evidence from the fired department:

    http://resource.co.mohave.az.us/File/Attorney/New%20Press%20Release%20&%20Search%20Warrant%20Colorado%20City.pdf

  264. I meant Fire department – but, Fired department may be right too now.

  265. Im Grateful that all of you care.

    There is a group of people here that have assumed control of
    this beautiful place. I was born here in 1966 it was not always this way. All the good things in my life reflect my beginnings here at home. When I drive through the streets there is a hardness I feel from most of the people. They work hard to project meen ness toward me. I talk to the kids and they look @ me through eyes of terror. It’s like they have been told something really really scary about me. They dont know me here, I stay low and hidden. I pray for them in my spirit, how can I help ?, How can I release them from their agony? Who has sinned so grievously against these children? They are possessed by dark things and they try to run from it, but it is inside of them and they cannot get away or hide from ” IT “.
    There is only one – That can release them – He is coming.

    What you can do is cleanse your own spirits and make room for Christ in your lives. Stand in Holy Places. Avoid the destroying influences ( you know what they are for you ) Forgive all trespasses against you and others.
    Make ” Ready ” ~ LOVE

  266. RICO….BinB…..did you say Rico??? My prayers have been answered I better go light my candle in thanks.

  267. Yes, I said RICO. Where is Stamp / Rico BTW?

  268. I’ve read Warren’s dictations from Sep 2002 to Dec 2005. However, on the site I’m reading them from, Sep-Dec 2004 is missing and so is 2006. Does anyone know where else I could read them?

  269. Twitter gets results

    GregAbbott_TX Greg Abbott
    @ProudTexan11 Already on it. 3 more indictments already plus ongoing investigation that may yield more.

  270. This site has 2002 through 2005. It does not have 2006 or later

    http://phrecords.wordpress.com/

    Most Recent Posts
    2002
    2003
    2004
    2005

  271. In lookimg at the site I posted 2004 ends on Sept 30 so October thru dec 2004 is missing..

  272. watergirl, please make computerese welcome even in text format. we might all learn something. i know i can use help in those danged abbreviations.

  273. the advanced ordinance of the love of God sealed with in her – this is Warren speak for raping his wives.

  274. As Warren made up his “higher ordinances,” he used them as a coercive tool to get the women/girls to (sometimes with outward resistance) go along with his demands.

    Once he had the ordinances in place, the only time he appears to have had sexual intercourse with a wife would be during the “Sealing the love of God into ____” ordinance or in a heavenly session.

    For the young former wives of Rulon’s, Warren used not only the women’s salvation against them, but also their desire to have a child which had been delayed in some cases for many years since Rulon could not impregnate his wives in his later years.

    The “Sealing the love of God” ordinance was always done with witnesses.

    It reads to me that Winnie Kloe was most likely not a willing participant.

    I keep thinking of the women (Janet, Sally, Esther, Nancy, etc.) who were part of the PR parade in 2008 who kept emphasizing that no one was ever “forced.”

    Coercion is force.

  275. I can’t find the RICO comment in the news article?
    What was the twitter to Greg Abbott that elicited the we are on it with three more indictments coming?

  276. I’m trying to keep an open mind, but I find Anon/computereze very hard to read.
    Takes extra concentration. But I welcome the input of any x-flds, because we need that perspective.

  277. That parole eligibility date seems rather soon to me. I thought in Texas you had to serve half of your sentence, which would mean 48.5 years. That would be 2059. 2038 would be serving 27 years. Granted, he’d be over 80, but still…

  278. For those looking for 2006 dictations, they may be available somewhere but they aren’t here I suppose.
    Something on this here (Feb 10, 2010) : http://www.tribblogs.com/polygamyfile/2010/02/the-dictations/
    I do not know the details, the circumstances, the out come or the resolution, if there was one.

  279. “Barlow is also charged with three counts of participating in a criminal syndicate in the Aug. 4 indictment.”

    Looks like RICO charges to me.

  280. I am thinking that the 2006 dictations possibly had content pertaining to the Canada Trafficking situation, and may still have pending indictments or cases being built. And those records may have been possibly retracted. But I do not know that for sure.

  281. Here it is HHG :

    Twitter gets results

    GregAbbott_TX Greg Abbott
    @ProudTexan11 Already on it. 3 more indictments already plus ongoing investigation that may yield more.

  282. BiB – I think the question was what @ProudTexan11 said TO @GregAbbott_TX that elicited his response.

  283. OH, it would be lovely if Naomi was one of those indictments. Or even an up coming one.

    Just keep knocking them out Texas!

  284. Half of a life sentence is actually 35 years. I wanted him to get 99 years instead of life because half of that is 49.5. Then since the sentences are consecutive instead of concurrent you would add 10 for the 20 year sentence. I’m guessing they gave him credit for the time served in Utah and Arizona before he was sentenced. Maybe that’s why they want to go ahead with the Bigamy charge and get him on 3 felony strikes and you’r out, no parole ever.

  285. You certainly got a quick response Proud Texan, I am following you both.
    I have a pretty good suspicion though that Mr. Abbott isn’t going to give us much for details.
    But I would sure love to know. LOL!

  286. Here’s my tweet to the Texas AG

    @GregAbbott_TX Let’s get busy and indict the rest of the #FLDS who have broken the laws of Texas. #NaomieJessopJeffs comes to mind.

  287. I’m going to keep tweeting him to indict naomi. I may suffer tweet finger or whatever it’s called before I get my message across.

  288. Here’s more on the corruption charges related to Colorado City,AZ, appears there are 30 counts, but they are state charges, so no feds or RICO as of yet. All charges came from a Arizona grand jury.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52399644-78/barlow-fire-department-counts.html.csp

    IMO this is just tip of iceberg so to speak.

  289. DANG…..!

    So many indictments and so little time to read them all.

    Keep up the good work!

    Will check in later. This is going to put a kink in the statue.

  290. RICO, RICO, RICO…..I have to admit it does have a pretty ring to it. Say can all the religious fanatics not notice the leadeship is disappearing one by one? Maybe they’ll think it’s the Rapture and they didn’t get lifted up? How much more money is there in the FLDS Legal Defense Fund? Jake Barlow has to appear one week from today, maybe they can get Emily ‘Warrior Lawyer’ Detoto for the Fire Chief.

  291. Here’s more on the indictments from the San Angelo, Texas newspaper:

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/aug/16/flds-officials-indicted/

    And old Piccarreta is the lawyer defending the FLDS officials.

  292. BIB – sorry I was dense, caught the criminal conspiracy on second read.

    Wasn’t Jake ex’d? Does anyone know if he is around to be prosecuted?

  293. Jake wasn’t exed. He’s right there still running the CCFD.

  294. I have some potentially good news for Elaine Jeffs, rumor has it that her son Sam Draper has very recently left the FLDS. Maybe if she could reconnect with him, they could shed some light on what its like right now in ShortCreek.

  295. Naomi certainly would be at the top of the list but, there are so many more. I want to see Utah step up. Will they? Probably not if they don’t have to. If they are not pinned right to the spot, Utah will slither out of doing anything at all.

    Hopefully Texas can get Naomi, I doubt Utah will pursue her.

    2morrowpeople said this on August 16, 2011 at 12:02 PM

    2morrowpeople, you’re probably right, Utah won’t step up. LE in Utah is FUBAR when it comes to polygamy.

  296. Can they be considered RICO charges if they are brought by a State and not the Feds?

  297. Willie the Thug due in court tomorrow morning. I guess Willie the Thug has to answer to Judge Beacham about paying Sam Brower his money owed. Wasn’t an arrest warrant issued for Willie the Thug last month? Why isn’t his fat A@@ in jail? OOO because Willie the Thug is too busy going to the Warren Jeffs trial in Texas? Or filming his BS interview for the Dr. Phil TV Show – supposedly tomorrow? Willie the Thug is much too busy lying for the Lord to deal with court judgements that he and his FLDS apologist attorney, Rod Parker, ignored, “answered them nothing”, then LOST!!!!

    Big Willie is about to be in one heck of a big willy if he thinks this BS is going to fly. NO religious persecution going on here – just the law, ma’am; you lose, you pay.

    FIFTH DISTRICT COURT-ST GEORGE
    G RAND BEACHAM August 17, 2011
    Courtroom 3A Wednesday
    09:30 AM
    Miscellaneous
    JESSOP, WILLIAM R ATTY: BRADSHAW, JIM C
    PARKER, RODNEY R
    VS.
    BROWER, SAMUEL E ATTY: BISHOP, WILLARD R

  298. Any bets on if he calls in sick to court, tomorrow???? [ I still don’t trust him. Me thinks he’s an evil snake! ] Or ‘Willie’ face the music?

  299. Watergirl, FIRED Dept works for me – mighty good faux pas on your behalf!

    Let’s hope the crooks are soon fired, fried and left by the side!

  300. ‘Willie’ face the music. 🙂 mc you get points.

    Willie R. Jessop (talking dirt mover Willie) is going to be on Dr. Phil?

    lol

    Maybe Oprah will show up and they both can say how “shocked” they both are with the findings from the Texas Rescue.

    What I want to know is who is following Willie? some of the same people he helped escort out of town?

    How about the young couple farming Berry Knoll? are they following Willie?

    It was listed that he lived in Colorado. Does he still? Did he gather up all his wives and put them all in one town?

    I am telling ya. Isacc Wyler with a video cam and his own little paper. It would be a good thing. For them and for us.

    I am going to watch Dr. Phil if he has Willie on there. It was a treat watching Nancy Grace put that goofy look on his face when she was done. I waited for that moment for years. Needed more moments like that thru out this whole story imo. Best therapy in the world is when people say things out loud and confront those who BS others.

    🙂 Nancy Grace , Natalie Malonis , Mike Watkiss and Sam Brower I owe you for a couple of therapy sesssions.

  301. Nothing slated for Willie to appear this week.
    Shows listed for this week : http://blog.drphil.com/shows/

    But they did have something about looking for people that were still faithful to Warren Jeffs and wanting to appear on the show. I am thinking that they didn’t find anyone that is “active FLDS” that would sign up for the program.

  302. Proud Texan got great results from Tweeting Greg Abbott. Possibly we should be Tweeting Nancy Grace, and Dr. Drew as well. If Slick Willie does show up on any of those shows, maybe they will ask him some REAL questions. Or ask them why they are giving this fool air time in the first place?
    I can’t believe that thug is on TV preaching his BS.

  303. http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/story/Feds-investigate-civil-rights-complaints-in/12JxOkXC0kOvvUZ1q7D16w.cspx

    Feds investigating the FLDS police for the 2nd time in a month.

  304. Walton, I think you’re getting your “Willie’s” mixed up. One is Willie Thugly Jessop. He’s the one who owes Sam Brower a judgment from a bogus lawsuit. The other is Willie Fugly Timpson Jessop. He’s the one who is trying to take followers away from Warren and Lyle Jeffs claiming Warren made him the profit in 2007.

    As for tweeting the AG, I”m back on the case again today. I want him to indict Naomi for the part she played in her baby 1/2 sister’s rape, among other things.

  305. Awesome article on”Feds investigating police”, Proud Texan. Thanks for sharing that. One of my big desires is to get the HD/CC police force replaced. It would be instrumental in opening that community up.
    Glad to know they are looking into it, and I hope they do something.

    I hope Naomi goes down.

  306. Maybe it is Mark Shurtleff we should we tweeting and asking how long till you start doing something now that Texas gave you all their records.

  307. yeah, I’d like to see someone ask Willie about the “gardener’s bed”.

  308. Let’s tweet Shurtleff !

  309. What’s his twitter handle?

  310. All of the cases on Appeal, except Emack, have had a Motion to Substitute counsel filed. F. Clinton Broden and Franklyn R. Mickelsen have filed to substitute in for the members of Goldstein’s office.

  311. Found it, he’s @MarkShurtleff

  312. new counsel means more money to cough up from the twin cities….
    maybe it is on purpose – the more they pay into the defense the more they will “own” it and need to believe it…

  313. These have been on file for over a month. I talked to Robert Udashen at Warren’s trial and he said that Goldstein was getting out and these 2 had been hired in the Goldstein firm’s place. The Udashen’s only signed on for Emack’s Search Warrant Appeal and then they were hired by Warren to do the Suppression hearing for him and subsequently fired before the Suppression on the evidence from the Cadillac.

  314. Computerese Anon, I have had a request from another ex FLDS I know who has requested to be able to contact you. If you feel comfortable doing so, would you please send an email to proudtexan09 @ gmail.com.

  315. Brent Jeffs is doing Dr. Phil. He said the show should air in September.

  316. Walton, I think you’re getting your “Willie’s” mixed up. One is Willie Thugly Jessop – Proud Texan said this on August 17, 2011 at 7:09 AM

    I don’t think Walton has the Willie’s mixed up. Thug boy is starting to do interviews against WSJ:

    http://stoppolygamyincanada.wordpress.com/2011/08/01/is-willie-jessop-a-lying-hypocrit/

  317. Questionably, I just wanted to point out, ( no doubt due to his incalculable pre-natal wisdom,) WSJ apparently has but one “willy” (lower case w) to keep track of.

    Hmm, that puts me in mind of the fact that we have not heard of any dictations, recordings, or otherwise prophet-able records in this regard. ..which is not to say that they do not exist, of course… For these things, may we be ever grateful…Yet, one is struck with the flds “terminology possibilities..”

    My scientific guess is that dear Naomi couldn’t quite keep up with every single ever-lovin’ , uh, I mean, every single “bless-ed” instance….of course, she did do her utmost to keep up with numerous hushed-up heavenly interludes, did she not? Let us give credit where credit is due, friends.

    As for Thug Boy, we must assume he is seizing upon the opportunities which now present themselves, to aquire shelter for himself from all possibile culpability. Squealing frequently and with vigor, he hopes to purchase himself some sort of unheavenly, yet useful pardon from the other powers that be..the ones that go by initials other than WSJ..

  318. Yes, but Fugly is the would be profit.

  319. Well, to hear Thugly tell it, he wasn’t kicked out, he left of his own free will.

    Going along with Gretchen’s line of thinking, how much viagra was Warren getting in how many different names?

  320. Anyone wanna know what life is like in Short Creek right now?

    Ridiculous. Thats what.

    A warren faithful was asking my mother in law about the trial. They don’t know the details. When my mother in law told her about the sex tapes of the little girls….this warren faithful says “well, if warren taped it, it must be ok”

    There are no real questions being asked. They are being good sheeple. And they are being blind as ever…..god it just makes me so mad.

  321. Almost makes me wish I wasn’t married to a Barlow…I get waaay too much sickening information from inside the crick. :S

    It kills me to hear the ignorance coming from the sheeple. I truely do believe Warren bred his own little generation at Alta….My husband continually scratches his head about the sheeples antics….saying “that wasn’t how I was raised in colorado city, everything Warren is saying goes against the religion I was taught”

    I could just pull out all my hair over the frustration this has caused our big split up, apostate, evil family.

    Being sick over the tapes? Thats got nothing on hearing a relative praise them…..

  322. Ariel,
    sorry for you … that is plain sick – if he taped them it is ok to have sexual intercourse with a 12 year old who has no idea what is happening and have the event watched by other teenagers, and a half sister?
    HHG

  323. I don’t think I have the Willies mixed up.

    Willie E. Timpson Jessop is the guy that Warren said should be the Prophet but then Warren changed his mind and once again claime he (Warren Jeffs was the Prophet) Willie E. Timpson Jessop to the best of my knowledge has never been shown on any news clip or even quoted in any stories. Flora can provide more info on him.

    Wilie R. Jessop is the guy who moves dirt and people and has appeared in many news clips and is often quoted in the news. He use to stand guard at meeting houses and use intimidation to get people to things they normally wouldn’t do. He got into it with Mike Watkiss , Mark Shurtleff, Sam Brower and many others.

    I also understand that he is now the gate watcher for the other Willie. Which I don’t understand because dirt mover Willie should be tending to his family and cattle in Colo.

    It is also said that Willie E. Timpson Jessop is and has been holding Church services. Did he register the new Church? It has also been said that Wendell has been holding Church services. Again did he register any place? If the money plates are being passed around are they monies going to Warren?

    How does that work? Can anyone pop up a tent and call it a Church and ask for donations? and nothing reported any where? if so wow

    And imo I think both Willies should be sitting in a jail cell some place.

  324. I just finished Sam Browers book. For anyone following this story I suggest that they get this one. I’ve been following this story on the computer for 7 years. And there were things mentioned in here that I’ve never seen written any where nor said out loud by anyone.

    I am not one for fancy words nor is my spelling always correct so I try to keep it simple.

    This book is a must read imo.

  325. Walton, I think it’s Will E. who is the one with Colorado ties, but other than that you’ve got the story down pretty well.

    I wonder if Judge Walther knows Wendell is holding Church services. It appears he’s still too sick to show up for his trial date.

  326. Ariel – hang in there. The sheeple are pretty indoctrinated and its going to take time to undo it all. Getting Rid of Lyle would help tremendously. With the charges against Barlow and according to ABC4 the DOJ investigating civil rights violations, maybe something will stick.

  327. Sam Brower’s book is terrific – I highly recommend it as well.

  328. Wendell has been holding services at his home in Utah for some time. I read about it when his sister-in-law Sherry Black was found murdered in her book store in Utah. Her family has a website up that includes some about her personal life and also asking that anyone with info call. Her daughter is married to Greg Miller jazz owner.

    One of the many things mentioned about her was her love of books. And that is why she started the book store. She has been mentioned on many “book buyer” message boards as she had come across some “rare books”.

    It was mentioned that Wendell had cameras inside of his home and they showed that one of his sons and another was seen taking valuable books from his home. He was arrested on a probation violation I think but there was more said about the types of people this kid hung out with.

    They are still looking for the killer as far as I know.

  329. Here is a link about the Sherry Black murder and the mentioning of Wendell holding church services.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700089947/Reports-Slain-bookseller-Sherry-Black-unknowingly-bought-stolen-items-from-gang-member-with-history.html

  330. Life in CCA since the new regime has installed it’s self has been a whirlwind
    of in-doctrine-ation.

    All the past was hewn down ( the destruction of Roy Johnson’s memorial ) etc etc etc. Everyone who could make a contentious stand against the new leadership was systematically eradicated.
    (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eradicated )

    The process was intensive. Everyone was scanned for Sin. All female children with their menses were checked for a hymen that was intact. Young men who would not submit to complete authoritism were ejected.
    ( we counted 400+ in 2005 alone ) All activity’s that would foster someones time other than this NEW Doctrine were banned. Sports Television Social Activity’s etc etc etc. The dress code was universalized.
    Only certain styles colors etc. Anyone who wanted Rank or advancement would need to show a sign or present a Gift. Turning others in for any infraction they may perceive in others yards or in others dealings would be rewarded. Children were offered as sacrifices. Only the most conformitive
    would be proffered in this New Society.

    This is Total Control Of a Governing Body, and this is what it looks like. Life here now has not changed to a new Governance. Matter of Fact,,,,, as the tapes are listened too now, they are listening closer for any information. The coming Statue will give them an Anchor to hold on too, as they reverberate in their ” Ways”

    I watch them all day folks. The men also have these young girls and they are knocking out kids like there is no tomorrow. They think they are protected by God, They think you and all the outside world will grow tired of prosecuting them and will give them back everything that was taken from them. They will give up their lives for the cause and they are all watching each other to make sure NO ONE leaves the course. The people here are terrified of others knowing anything about what they are really doing. The spot lite that is on them right now is BREAKING some of them down. We have very suicidal people here right now, To LEAVE is Death.

    William Jessop is a very good Actor. He is a Bulldog . He will say anything to appear redirected in hopes of burying MR Jeffs and installing himself as the new ” Saviour ” here. He is not intelligent or brilliant enough to mastermind what Mr Jeffs just did, but he can maintain it. “Soon enough they will get tired and just go away ” he is telling them “wait and see.” William Timpson is now joined with him and they send letters to every post office box holder here, I just received the NEW one. It is PLEADING ” LIFE OR DEATH here People” if you dont follow our direction NOW. Anyone who has left is now welcome in their ” NEW” Church , just the Followers, that is what they want. POWER . ” JEFFS really messed up by being so public”
    We must get this thing Quieted down, so we can resume our work and finish the Brilliant Work that our Father Warren has started.

    Warren always knew they would get him, that is why he left us this “DOCTRINE”

  331. Anonymous
    they are listening to the tapes as religious stuff. Oh My God.
    so sorry

  332. from twitter this afternoon:
    polyamorie Pieter Schultz
    Las Vegas neighbors glad ‘strange bunch’ is gone / By Brian Haynes [US; Las Vegas Review-Journal; #flds]

    http://www.lvrj.com/news/las-vegas-neighbors-glad-strange-bunch-is-gone-127440953.html

  333. Warren’s parole date may be 7/22/2038 because of the Year 2038 problem. Without getting into too much *computerese,* dates stored on a 32-bit UNIX computer system start in 1970 and will run out in 2038.

    More here for the curious:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem

    In other words, a bug, not a feature, and Warren ain’t going nowhere in 2038.

  334. That story was back when Wendell was still in the cult.

  335. Proud Texan- Wendell’s son stole the books in March 2009 from the Bluffdale home. That is where Wendell was holding services. In Bluffdale in 2009. But he was also living at YFZ.

    Sherrry Black was killed Nov. 2010 Wendell resigned his position Jan. 2011

    Both Wendell and Merill were in Walthers court for a pretrial not that long ago. I understood that Wendell wasn’t to leave the state of Texas. And yet he was preaching in Utah.
    Now that he has been kicked who lives in his house at the YFZ?

    Aug.22 is Wendells trial date. He will have to pay for a hotel room if he isn’t allowed at the ranch.

  336. You are wrong. Wendell got a pass with a doctor’s note. It was Merril who was told not to leave Texas, but my information says that Merril is in the Crick. Wendell is in Conifer, Colorado according to his doctor. My best guess is that he has family who was living in the Bluffdale house. I also doubt that Wendell is preaching. Maybe piping in the prophet, but Wendell isn’t a preacher.

  337. walton, wendell sold the bluffdale property in 2003 and was already living in Hildale. I know the people who bought it from him. Are you confusing Wendell with Ivan, his older brother who leads the “Nielsen/Naylor” group, a schism of CP?

  338. I understand how a unix date could wrap around in 2038. What I don’t understand is how or where Brooke would get such a date. It seems unlikely to me that she sits at a unix command line and asks the system to add 47.5 years to Warren’s sentencing date. Just saying. I guess my curiosity will just have to be patient on that one.

  339. This article says it was one of Wendell’s son Lorin Nielesen who stole the books from his fathers home in Bluffdale in 2009.

    Wendells legal wife is the sister to Sherry Blacks husband from what I understand.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700089947/Reports-Slain-bookseller-Sherry-Black-unknowingly-bought-stolen-items-from-gang-member-with-history.html

  340. Wendells legal wife is Linda Black Nielsen. Again, Lorin is Ivans boy.
    The article never says Wendells name. Ivan leads his own polygamist group, and Lorins mom is one of Clayne Waymans daughters and Ivans 3rd wife. . Wendell is not married to any of Claynes daughters. I know Ivans family and of the thefts of Ivans books from some of his other kids.
    Not to be nitpicky, Walton, but those are the facts

  341. http://www.amw.com/fugitives/case.cfm?id=76319 This includes the latest updates.

    They found a 36-38 inch belt at the scene. And I am sure there are other things but haven’t told the media everything.

  342. long time gone your not being nit picky. This is how people get to the bottom of things. I appreciate it when people share.

    Here is another link: http://www.lawrenceperson.com/?p=3159

  343. I don’t know, maybe they held meetings at the house, but all of the FLDS stuff had moved to Hildale/Colorado City by 2009. It’s possible that Wendell still owned the property, but it is also possible that it is Ivan’s son being referred to. Ivan has a son named Lorin also.

  344. Brooke didn’t sit down and figure anything out. That 2038 date is on the Dept of Criminal Justice website. That’s where the date malfunction comes into play.

  345. The books that were stolen were some interesting pieces. It would be interesting to see some of those on line somehow.

    If Wendell got a Doctors note, it looks like we might not see a trial at the end of this month.

    Once again thanks for all the input.

  346. The trial for Wendell was supposed to start next Monday. I’ve heard it isn’t going. No word on rescheduling yet.

  347. Utah will slither out of doing anything at all.

    2morrowpeople said this on August 16, 2011 at 12:02 PM

    ya got that right, 2morrowpeople!

  348. why is Brooke still using the Polgamy biline on Twitter?? doesn’t seem right unless unless she is taking back the SLC Trib blog
    ThePolygamyFile Brooke Adams
    Warren Jeffs’s parole eligibility date? July 22, 2038. #FLDS

    Watergirl said this on August 16, 2011 at 2:08 PM

    Because she is such a TWIT!

  349. Maybe it is Mark Shurtleff we should we tweeting and asking how long till you start doing something now that Texas gave you all their records.

    Watergirl said this on August 17, 2011 at 8:49 AM

    a BIG amen to that!

  350. yeah, I’d like to see someone ask Willie about the “gardener’s bed”.

    Betty said this on August 17, 2011 at 9:14 AM

    Yeah, me too, Betty. Willie the Thug’s poor excuses and gibberish answers might be considered entertaining by some, yet others see completely through the ridiculous double-speak he spews at every chance.

    Take what Willie the Thug says with many grains of salt. And wear some tall rubber irrigation boots if you have them because the BS can get REALLY deep when Willie the Thug speaks.

    Willie the Thug is trying to reinvent himself and praise the goodness of his religion while he strategically condones the evils of his convicted pedophile prophet.

    Willie is – and always has been – a lying POS who has reached his level of the boy who cried WOLF. Give it up Willie, we have your number and we see through your convenient lies and BS.

    Willie, you are NOT a man of God and have no right to act as one. Please go slither back under the rock from whence you emerged.

  351. new counsel means more money to cough up from the twin cities….
    maybe it is on purpose – the more they pay into the defense the more they will “own” it and need to believe it…

    hellohellogoodbye said this on August 17, 2011 at 11:32 AM

    Yikes HHG, truer words may have never been spoken here!

  352. lol Looks like the Willies are talking. or are they? Maybe it is just one Willie talking for the other?

    I wonder if anyone can pull off an interview with both Willies on film?

    I saw something like this when I was a kid. Only it was Shari with lambchops.

    http://www.abc4.com/content/news/state/story/Renewed-battle-for-control-of-FLDS/o3UDQUZhIEOoIYA9BL0jxQ.cspx

  353. Here’s the letter Willie the Thug sent out, as mentioned in above link posted by Walton. Yes Walton it appears that the two Willies are openly challenging Warren & Lyle for control of the FLDS. Which raises the question a new split within the FLDS, with perhaps the hardcore Warrenites perhaps being forced out to YFZ and other compounds in CO, SD etc?

    http://www.abc4.com/media/lib/5/1/1/8/1186afa1-342c-469f-844c-7171b02e3fde/Dear_Brother_Lyle.pdf

    Who has controll of the short creek LE, the feds are still investigating, will there be violence by who ever controls the local LE aganst the other faction?

  354. Sounds like the temperatures are rising in Short Creek. I do hope there is no violence as the factions wrest for control of the flds.

  355. Willie R. is just out for Willie R., is what I think. Not to sure what to think of Wilie T. but, I lean towards “not good” so far.
    I wish someone would ask Willie R. the questions :
    #1. Does he think the HD/CC police force is corrupt, and should be replaced by an outside acting force? At least temporarily? To remove the fear of not only the residents but, people from the outside as well. And level the playing field.
    #2. Does he think the town should be opened back up for Internet, television, and outside interaction? Holidays, activities, and normal social structure, dating of teens, and opportunities for young men and women in the community? That women should have some rights and independence in the community? And the locks taken off of YFZ too for that matter.
    #3. Does he think the children should be put back into school, and learn that everyone out here isn’t the Devil, that men walked on the moon, and the children and parents should be able to make that choice?
    #4. That the practice of “hell and damnation” for communicating with the outside world, is ridiculous? Take the fear of the outside world and throw it in the trash. Willie communicates with the outside world, why shouldn’t they be able to?
    If Willie (R or T) answers no, (of course what would keep Willie form lying? Nothing!) to any of these questions, he is just a Warren in Willie clothing. All he is preaching so far is Warren’s immorality. Follow me not him, blah blah blah. Trying to use Warren as a trump card for himself. Haven’t once yet heard him said he would or could do anything different or progressive for anyone in the community.
    My suspicion would be – More of the same different day. Just to be able to “rule” the money into his own pocket. With really no cause or concern for the flock. Just looking at them as a cash cow. Willie is full of BS. Oh, we already knew that……
    And Lyle is just a clone of Warren more or less. Probably “more”. They are all full it, IMO. All generations of racketeers.

  356. That letter doesn’t sound like a change of philosophy from Warren Jeffs – more threats from God, ….

    It could be that that is the only way to cause change within the community but it sure doesn’t bode well for long term wake up call

  357. Thanks for explaining the date, PT. That makes sense.

  358. 2morrowpeople, I talked to Willie at Warren’s trial about lots of different things. One of the things we talked about was his kids in public school. I think he’s sorry he didn’t do it sooner, he said his kids missed out on so much and that the younger ones are doing a summer school program to get adjusted.

    Don’t get me wrong, he still spews things with a “Willie” spin, like talking about the Elissa/Allen Steed fiasco. I had to call him on several lies about that. I also called him on his friendship with BillM. His spin is that he met Bill 1 time when he and his family were on a picnic and BillM just showed up.

    Do I believe all of what Willie has to say? No way. Do I believe he is thinking that keeping secrets is what got them into this mess, yes. Do I think he and Will are a better alternative than Lyle, yep. Lyle is Warren X2. He’s into porn and lots of other stuff that would blow your sox off. If you think Warren is bad, you ain’t seen nothing yet.

  359. I’m not sure it’s the right explanation Betty, it just explains where Brooke got the 2038 date from. The Unix explanation makes me realize where the TDCJ got it from to post it.

  360. Thanks for the input Anonymous @ 8:49 –
    I really don’t want to see this fall to Lyle either, I know he’s a shyster. And yes I do believe he’s just as bad if not worse than Warren.

  361. Willie the thug gave a stump speech outside the courthouse at the end of the trial. He promised to take down the guard towers and unlock the doors at YFZ. Promised to give cell phones to every Mother. So I am still waiting for him to keep the promise (wink).

    When I saw his reaction after the trial I thought – It is the guilty dog that barks the loudest. But, hey, maybe he did have a “Paul on the road to Damascus” experience once he saw how serious Texas LE is and the penalty for getting caught.

    We are not suppose to judge others least we be judged – my hardest struggle.

  362. As the Bishop of Short Creek Lyle is in charge of the Bishop’s storehouse. That gives him a fairly big club over the sheep.

  363. I really think it is probable that the average person in the FLDS was/is unaware of the sexual depravity of Warren and not all of them excuse anything and everything just because he’s the Prophet. Many of them have family members who were thrown out for trivial reasons, and for sexual misconduct much less serious than Warren’s. They may not know because of the secrecy in their culture, extra secrecy created by separating YFZ from the Creek, but also because they were very willing to believe explanations such as the idea that marriage to a 12 year old does not have to be consummated until she is older. Although I don’t think Willie sees morality the way I do, I think he might honestly be shocked and disgusted by what he found out from reviewing the evidence. He’s still a polygamist and he’s still in this cult to some extent, but he may very well have had an awakening to the evil of Warren.

  364. I agree with what you just said Betty. I think the average man/woman/child in Short Creek didn’t have a clue what Warren was doing. Most of the very young he married to himself.

    I think that even some of those at the ranch might not have been aware, but the majority of Warren’s wives had to have known when he brought home a little girl as a new wife. Also, the others who were 15 and under were married off at the YFZ to those who were told that what happened at the YFZ stayed at the YFZ.

    I think a perfect example is Mike Emack. I heard that his family had no clue he was married to a 15 year old, much less had children with her. Frank Johnson, who had been exed, said he had no idea that 2 of his daughters had been married off underage. I’m not sure what he was exed for, but if he was a loyal follower and he was told to bring his daughters, you can rest assured he probably would have. His wife was remarried to Merril in February 2004 and Ruleen was married to Emack in August 2004. Suzanne wasn’t married to Abram until October 2005.

  365. Betty, your wariness of Willie is right on, he’s decidedly distancing himself and at the YFZ Ranch Open House after the rescue claimed that turning his back on Warren was tantamount to denying the Lord. He’s lost his credibility withe the Press & Public but his words now are not to be taken as unquestioned, he has himself to blame for that situation. Another blowhart that sounded the alarm about Warren jeffs was Winston Blackmore but he too has been an active participant in the human livestock exchange in child brides export/import to Canada. Two of his plural wives were deported back to the US in 2005 and two more are in residency status issues, right now.

  366. Channel 4 with Brent Hunsaker is reporting that Willie E. Timpson has mailed an open letter to all Short Creek residents challenging Bishop Lyle Jeffs to clean up the immoral mess and now proven conviction of Warren S. Jeffs and for him to ‘come clean’ and not continue the cover-up.

    Lyle Jeffs has responded with an electonic alert to the FLDS Church membership to discard and rid themselves of this open letter, saying it ” is poison and should be tossed away”. Then there is the 40+indictments on the Colorado City officials that further rocks this floundering FLDS leadership. Willie E. Jessop’s open letter was co-signed by now apostate Willie R. “Thug” Jessop so the fats in the fire and the dispute has public notice.

  367. It will be interesting how Parker responds when he has to address the fed district court over the UEP trust

  368. Betty – I believe the average people in CC or YFZ are surprised about abuse among their leaders or fellow citizens like we are surprised with lying, corrupt politicians.

    It’s a fact that the religious polygyny mentality creates a nest for abuse. People know what’s going on and they are:

    a) a part of it, or

    b) so desensitized that they excuse it or just look away until they are called to the carpet.

  369. this whole thing just gives me the willies

  370. I think the majority is b.

  371. I think this might be the only side by side view we will see of the Willies.
    http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-warren-jeffs-challenger-sends-letter-flds-people,0,7325530.story

    Exactly what do the Willies want? They are knocking on the wrong doors. they are no longer part of the “FLDS fold” if they want to be preaching they should be knocking on the doors of those in CPark.

    Have those in the FLDS all signed lease agreements with Bruce Wissan? Have they been paying their property taxes?

    This all stinks like the book burning story. Paul Murphy knows who burned those books and so do all those that were sitting at that Safety Net meeting including the woman with the blonde hair that repeatedly put down those in the FLDS.

    they are trying to do a “back in time” moment using the Ben Bistline event.

    If they really want the property so bad let them go after the state of Utah and knock on the doors of Mark Shurtleff and Paul Murphy.

    When mobsters/gangs/drug dealers/lawbreakers have been found guilty of wrong doing the Govt. seized their properties.

    When there has been other religious leaders that have been found guilty of crimes the Govt. had no problem stepping in.

    What is the difference in this story? Why has this gone on so long?

    Too many agencies involved imo.

  372. Woo, they got David Darger served. Now he gets to face charges with Jake Barlow.

  373. Great news, PT. Too bad Arizona doesn’t have “prior bad acts” like Texas. I like that policy!

  374. I seem to remember a case in which an erratic driver was pulled over and it turns out he as being “serviced” by another male member of the group. Who was that? For some reason my memory wants to insert Lyle Jeffs into the picture but truth to tell I can’t really say I do remember that correctly.

  375. HHG: That was Seth Steed Jeffs. URL for a desNews article on his sentence. He was apparently acting as a courier for warren when his arrest took place.

  376. Here is the URL:
    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20060715/ai_n16542868/

  377. Seth Jeffs and the passenger who was servicing him was his nephew or cousin, or maybe both, in this group anything is possible, Nathaniel Allred.

  378. HHG, the driver/courier was Seth Jeffs and his ‘favorite’ cousin was Nathaniel Allred. I would love for them to turn Nathaniel Allred he seemed to be very dIrect and honest.

  379. Here’s an article from the SL Trib on subject of open letter from Willies:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52413696-78/jeffs-flds-jessop-letter.html.csp

    Ole Warren is not allowed phone calls yet and must depend on snail mail, hope ole Willie the Thug mailed Warren Jeffs a copy of the letter, would like to see the look on that felonious profit when he read it.

  380. Ahhh…the fresh loads of b.s. to re-fertilize the faith. Willie in one truck and Lyle in the other.

    These splits intrigue me. They happen about every 10-20 years for one reason or another.

    I have thought they were unconsciously related to managing the size of a tightly controlled polygynous group, but it’s hard to say because I’ve seen better ways to do it (minus polygyny).

    With population issues the LDS start new wards, but the FLDS start new cults with slightly varied beliefs.

    Are these splits due to a subconscious need to separate (i.e. genetic reasons) or just crappy organization?

    It’s important to know because they can really f-up people’s lives….even more.

    Sorry if this has been discussed – I’m new.

  381. I like your input into the discussion Sis. My opinion is splits are due to crappy organization.

    I have a question though, does the CCPD and CCFD take calls from CP as well as Hildale/CC? I was just wondering if the CPers were treated as badly as the apostates who live in the Hildale/CC communities. I mean they technically are apostates from the group.

  382. PT – interesting question…

    Sis – I think the splitting is due to the intense politics at the top of cult. When you have so much power almost within reach (if only I were the prophet I would do so much better etc.) and because the power is so corrupting it is both a cleansing process to get rid of the corrupted and a renewal to start new corruption.

    Kind of like a wart that is growing on my dogs back.. it has gotten so large it has split into sections so that sufficient oxygen can get to all portions of the wart, and so that the dead grow at the end of it can get caste off.

  383. I think it’s just a power struggle for money and power. Whoever has control next, gets the bucks. And things like this incident with Warren or other profits of the past, provide opportunity for the next in line, or whoever can profess the biggest line of BS. The followers are vulnerable, and they know it. They are the supporters of the bank accounts they never see.
    They want control, they want a Porsche like Warren had……

  384. I think that Centnnial Park members would point to Rulon Jeffs change toward “One Man Rule” as the causation which caused them to split apart. I am sure that CPers certaimly think that the Jeffs chickens have come home to roost and they look to gain as a result. Disenfranchising Colorado City and/or Hildale is going to further compound the tyrannical rule of the FLDS Church leadership. I am wondering if Willie R’Thutg’ Jessop is going to change sides now on UEP Trust issues? My guess, Yep!

  385. Rulon Jeffs did not start the “one man rule”. It was LeRoy Johnson, the “profit” before Rulon Jeffs. It was this “one man rule” that caused the split in the mid 1980s and got the Centennial Park group going. Rulon Jeffs just inherited the “one man rule”.

  386. Totally agree that it is money and power at the root of the struggle. To be a leader of a people who willingly give up 1 or 2 thousand dollars per month, marry who and when the leader tells them, live where the leader tells them to live, give up their girls to ne married to old men. A power trip like few others.

  387. Here’s hope more will leave flds and tell all they know to as many as possible. When I read about the power struggles, I am just amazed, since all of those grasping for power should be in jail themselves. I just can’t believe otherwise sane people remain in such groups. It shows the extent of the mental conditioning and fear. I guess when you have everything invested for so many years, you don’t know where to begin when you leave, but leaving is paramount. The children are thoroughly conditioned so early that parents who wake up often can’t even help their children it seems. This is surely one of the very most insidious groups ever. In 2008, I believe one reason the kids were returned to yfz was that they were already so brainwashed, Texas realized finding enough people who could stand to have them in their homes was not even possible.

  388. I agree with anon@9:07. Rulon didn’t start the 1 man rule, he just continued it. Warren continued it and took it to a high secrecy level.

    As for Willie Jessop, I don’t think he has a choice at this point. Warren kicked him out and so his only option to keep his finger in the pie was to seek out William Timpson and get him on board with this new plan.

    He won’t back the UEP Trust being given back unless and until he has the FLDS presidency safely in the hands of Timpson. Until then, he’ll side with Wisan. He’ll probably want the property distributed and then he can threaten, cajole, whatever it takes for it to be reconsecrated into the Timpson group.

    Question about CP – Do they hold property in common or do each of them have the title to their property? I mean some of those houses over there are mansions.

  389. Interesting article on the one man rule that has ptoven to be a disaster,

    http://flds101.blogspot.com/2008/05/flds-beliefs-101-one-man-rule.html

    Quote from the article cited:

    “In the early 1980s, LeRoy Johnson was the senior member of the priesthood council. “Uncle Roy,” influenced by others seeking power, outlined extreme actions that other members of the council didn’t want to follow. He explained that it was not a democracy, that he didn’t need their support since he held all the keys (authority from God). Marrion Hammon, second in seniority questioned this belief, and referenced a past revelation that stated that all members of the council held the same keys (authority). Johnson insisted that the source of the revelation was of the devil. A serious split resulted in the priesthood council. Marrion Hammon and Alma Timpson could not accept the doctrinal changes Johnson and others were introducing in this power struggle. A split eventually occurred and about 1/3 of the families followed after Hammon and Timpson. They became what was referred to as “the Second Ward.” The rest stayed loyal to Johnson. The Second Ward today is not part of the FLDS and is known as the Centennial Park group.”

  390. Oh man, NPR just released an article about “the great big two-willies letter” where the two of them are declaring they knew nothing, etc etc… and those two neanderthals (wow- the Geico cavemen are gonna really get me) are saying how so many flds still don’t know anything about the trial material, etc. and how there are severe repercussions if they try to get info for themselves…THIS IS SO DISGUSTING. Such deceit, day after day. It’s totally impossible all flds leaders knew nothing about pretty much every bit of wsj’s garbage. It was the goal of every girl to be married to him, the greatest “achievement”…this group’s madness is worse than I realized, even after studying them for over six years.

    I remember some footage of Thugboy letting Merrianne drive his truck and they were laughing big time. Ain’t no way, no way jose, that these big boys didn’t know wsj craved and got every single filly he ever rook a notion for down at yfz. Those little girls would be all smiles every day about being picked by wsj…and would prob talk about it non-stop. This is too gross, too gross… the willies telling other flds they are going down with the damned for not “coming clean after five long years..” what a sick, sick joke. LORD I wish they could all be locked up for good.

    p.s. I am way beyond having just the willies over this… it’s more like the eddie krugers…or the ted bundys, etc

  391. No, Rulon did not initiate the one-man rule. I can’t claim to know all the secrets between President Johnson, Rulon Jeffs and the leading elders when the one-man rule was imposed. But I can tell you Warren was busy manipulating things from the time he became Principal of Alta Academy. His influence ultimately overrode any others that were jockeying at that time.

    I believe I can safely charge most of what happened from then on to WSJ and his perverted designs, including the monster move of all the people from SLC to the Crick. He became extremely adept at taking advantage of a very incapacitated Johnson through his father who had suffered his very first stroke way back then. From that moment on things gradually got worse. I know because I was there at the school.

    Oh, if only some of Rulon’s ladies could freely talk! Rebecca provided a good start, but I’m sure there is much more.

  392. I agree anan@10:30. I’d love to hear from more or Rulon’s ladies.

    And Gretchen, I agree that the leaders had to know what was going on. We know Wendell and Merril did. They were in on it. I’m sure Lyle did too along with Nephi, Seth, Isaac, etc. As for Willie Jessop, he’s just a big thug and they probably only told him as much as they thought he needed to know. Probably not much. He was just a face to put out there and they didn’t lose much if he got himself in trouble. As for the rank and file, they probably had no clue. They followed so blindly that when the profit said to give him their 10 year old daughter to be taken to Zion, they felt blessed to give her to the profit. That’s what so sick about the whole thing. They think that whatever the profit does is OK because they believe he receives his instructions directly from God. I’m afraid if they ever do find out how deeply they have been deceived there will be a mass suicide because they won’t be able to live with what they have done.

    Warren’s brother Leroy needs to be singing praises everyday that he was exed when he was. Otherwise, he’d be in Allan Keate’s place in jail. Merilyn Barlow was originally his wife.

  393. I am looking for something that explains the “vision” that LDS President John Taylor had announcing that Polygamy must go on.

    It wasn’t that long after that he had gone into “hiding” in Mexico. Still being the President of the LDS Church while those back at home handled the day to day things.

    Everything goes back to this moment. imo

    Did any official from the LDS Church make contact with those in the FLDS telling them that the rules changed?

    Has there ever been a moment that the Govt. the LDS Church leaders and the FLDS/Kingston/Allred leaders gotten together with the media and had a summit per se?

    Back in 1953 some of those arrested signed papers saying they would NOT practice polygamy. But MANY ignored the contract and went ahead and continued.

    Can a person go back and seize the properties of those that broke the contract?

    I am also looking for any legal documents that might have been signed by the LDS leaders and the Govt. when the promises were made that practice would be stopped. anything concerning a spit and a “handshake” type deal.

  394. I had called the LDS. org numbers a few years ago looking for answers to some of these things.

    One of the things that I was told is that there is no proof that this vision occured. I brought up the “witnesses” and some of the things that they had recorded in their journals.

    What I was told is that some of those journals were written in pencil and not pen so they could not be used as fact.

    However… the “tablets” that Joseph Smith got his info from have never been seen by any other than Joseph Smith. Can’t be found. and yet the writings on the rocks from the American Indians are often ignored and bulldozed thru in Utah.

    I had often invited the missionaries into my home asking them to explain this part to me. And I’ve met some really good kids who often times are unaware of the “history” behind it all.

    Our visits ended when they told me that there was NO way that I would be allowed in the Heavens unless I believed in Joseph Smith.

    I might not believe in Joseph Smith but I believe the Heavens are open for those who believe in God. Won’t they be surprised when they find out that God loves ALL his Children? 🙂

  395. RCMP still seems to be foot dragging. New Prophet wanna-be William E. Jessop sends a letter also signed by thug for hire Willie Jessop telling FLDS to turn from Warren or face the “wrath of God”. So the threats will be a part of the new dictatorship as well as will Willie the Thug. If you remember Willie was at trials trying to intimidate witness and got several girls to change their minds and not give testimony so he knew what was going on as far as the age thing. W.E. Jessop has 15 wilves and untold children, none of the wives work. I will almost bet that not all of them were 18 or over when he “married” them. Warren sent out an email telling followers to ignore Jessops. We are not sure at this point what the brainwashed will do.

  396. I’ve only got 13 wives for Will E. Timpson and 8 kids of his own, but he was married to several of the women Uncle Fred was married to, including Flora’s mother and Becky Musser’s mother.

  397. Brooklyn – The tragedy is that Mounties and child-protection bureaucrats have known of the complaints against Bountiful’s leaders since at least 2008.

    No-they have known since 2000 at least as I have emails too and from Canadian officials in 2000 and 2001 and correspondence with US DOJ during the same time. I have a copy of a newspaper article in which an FBI agent, Steve Fillerup? states that taking girls over the borders for polygamy is breaking no laws despite the fact that the U.S. Supreme Court in 1946 said it was a violation of the Mann Act. I have a letter saying that that Canada would not investigate unless they had specific names and ages of girls which I sent them. Also Laura Chapman reported that her neice 16 went to Canada and was married to a Mr. Palmer to get out of marrying her stepfather who was already married to her mother and sister. This was reported to DOJ as well. I am sure they will just decide that most of these are too old to prosecute sadly. The Mounties obviously do not “get their man.”

  398. Fred Jessop was W. E.s step father so it he took Fred’s wives W.E. married his mothers that is weird.

  399. Isn’t freedom of religion grand?

  400. Here is the full letter the two Williams sent. There are a lot of threats so I don’t see things getting better especially since Willie signed it.

  401. The “Two Willies” just want to have control of the sect for their own benefit. Nothing would change with them in control. One man rule (or even two man rule) is not truly democratic.

  402. Those were not threats as they appear to people who do not know the culture. The people to whom it was addressed fully understand the meaning of the letter.

    Does make for a good story on a slow news day, though.

  403. So what is the meaning as fully understood by those to whom the letter was addressed?

  404. I don’t know about anyone else, but in listening to the audio from the trial, Warren must take a lot of Viagra.

  405. I’m going to have to go and read the dictation for October 13, 2004. It appears that Ora was having a very good time.

  406. Ditto to what several posters have already said about the 2 Willies wanting control. He who controls the sheeple, controls the tithes.

  407. walton, this comes from Brian Hales’ web site RE John Taylor’s 1886 “vision”:

    Lorin Woolley waited thirty-five years to first mention this important ordination. No specific evidence has been found to support that anyone knew of these special ordinations prior to the 1920s. No journal entries, no notes from meetings of the five men, no letters written or discourses given with reference to these important ordinations. Nothing but thirty-five years of silence has been identified. Interestingly, it also appears that Lorin never attempted to use that authority until the late 1920s.

    Historian D. Michael Quinn admitted: “I find no historical contemporary evidence to support that ordination of the Council of Friends in 1886… As a historian, I have no evidence that there was a setting apart or an ordination of a Council of Friends in 1886… I would be more than happy to find verification, and if I did find it, I certainly wouldn’t conceal evidence of the ordination of men in 1886 as a Council of Friends to continue plural marriage… I find no evidence of that event prior to Lorin Woolley’s detailed statements on various occasions in the 1920s concerning the 1886 ordination.” (August, 1991 meeting with the Allred Group, Bluffdale, Utah.)

    http://www.mormonfundamentalism.com/NEWFILES/1886OrdinationQuestions.htm

  408. President John Taylor died bssically in a ‘house of hiding’ avoiding Federal arrest and trial. I have blieved the storyline based upon several eye-witness accounts and the fact that there has never been much of a squabble between the keyplayers at that time. President Woodruff’s Manifesto overturned the polygamy practices and the later Smoot Senate hearings put the matter more on the high road of new practice, adoption and polygamy being really banned. For a time there was some hanky panky going on in the Mexican LDS Mission but that too ultimately ended. In the 1930s it was revealed that polygamy practice was still alive and being practiced, so I doubt that the'”New and Everlasting Covenant” was evern truly ended and it certainly remained alive and well in Mexico. Even back then the border was being used to advantages, i.e. US citizenships were preserved by exiled polygamists, children were returned to the US for missionary work and education, polygamist daughters kept family ties in Salt Lake Valley and Mexico was a safe haven for anyone fearful of US authorities arrests.

  409. I agree that power plays a huge role in the splits, but if it was set up so that one man was in charge and he had his quorums and regional presidents, stake presidents and bishops, that would minimize the power struggles. I cant’ believe they haven’t thought of this.

    Poor organization- maybe. But they don’t seem to be rectifying that problem. Why?

    It seems to me this failure to organize acts as a necessary trigger for the instincual need to split up. Perhaps so they don’t have to face what religious polygyny does to a large society. Poverty, overpopulation, population imbalance and abuse are some effects. Who wants to look at that on a mass scale? And who wants to be the one person in charge of it all? Isn’t it better to split up and minimize that mess by finding or creating opposition?

    Human nature is so fascinating.

    Proud Texan – I have heard that CCPD and CCFD do service CP and that they’re quite professional about it.

  410. The new and everlasting covenant of marriage is simply marriage for time and eternity in an LDS temple.

  411. In Mormon polygamy it’s plural marriage.

  412. Thanks anon @ 4:32 I think that part of the problem with the John Taylor vision is that so many are looking at it to cast blame/take credit or to ignore the possibility that it all might be true.

    Just like Mountain Meadows so much was brushed aside and it was easier to lay blame with those who couldn’t/wouldn’t speak up for themselves.

    When everyone was talking about a statue for the twin cities the very first thing I thought of was John Taylor. I think Utah has a few statues of John Taylor displayed and there a few places named after him including the John Taylor House.

    They mentioned that the short creek area would be the Head of the Church and not the tail. http://www.libertywalk.org/church-vs-state/fundamentalist-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints/

    That those who continued the practice would have their families taken care by the others within the LDS Church.

    And I can actually believe that all to be true. But when the new Prophets came into play they forgot to tell the FLDS and others and things got out of hand.

    Now I know the LDS Church are very advanced in a lot of areas but sometimes they have a tendancy to let others do the talking for them. imo it is because they have too many speakers and none with a voice. They have if my memory serves me right a Bishop on almost every city block and about as many meeting houses.

    I think those in the LDS forgot to relay the messages to the Kingstons/Allreds/Jeffs/Cpark.

  413. http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/08/19/139782083/signs-of-flds-schism-follow-polygamist-leaders-conviction

    Willie confirmed the letter while traveling to Texas. Why would Willie be going to Texas again?

    And interesting is that in one breath Willie said that Lyle banned them all from the internet but Willie informed them by snail mail and e-mail.

    Lindsay has a new post on her blog about the UEP mess.

  414. http://youtu.be/2PRpto8qZsA John Taylor’s 1886 Meeting

  415. Walton, I think the letter was sent while Willie was still in Texas after the trial. I know that he stayed around for a few days after Warren was sentenced. The sentencing was on August 9 and the letter is dated August 10. If he stayed until Thursday or Friday, that would explain the confirmation while traveling. The article just says “while traveling between Texas and Utah.” It doesn’t say which way he was going.

  416. Where did Warren get all those ideas?

    http://www.4thefamily.us/files/1886%20Revelation%20and%20Description.txt

    pen, pencil or by word of mouth this is what many people believed to have happened during that 8 hour meeting.

    Do I believe that Jesus and Joseph Smith appeared at this meeting?

    I believe that those folks telling the story believe it. Now… before anyone gets excited and starts thinking that I condone Polygamy. Nope. No way and no how.

    Facts are facts. And they haven’t changed. practicing Polygamy was as harmful back then just as it is today. Laws were put in place to protect the innocent and to protect everyone else.

  417. Both of the 2 Willies are full of nothing but hot air! They are mass manipulators just like Warren S. Jeffs (just not as perverted and pedophiles – that we know of). The 2 Willies want your loyalty, your money and your daughters (albeit not underage daughters – so they claim)

    Things are in a hell of a mess. Think long and hard about your futures.

    Lyle Jeffs is pure evil. The 2 Willies aren’t much better. Maybe it is time to find a new “religion” – and not necessarily mainstream LDS.

    Maybe it is time for no official organized religion while you think things through. It would be such a shame to directly jump from the frying pan into the fire.

  418. John Taylors obit listed in the New York Times : http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=F50F11FA3F5413738DDDAE0A94DF405B8784F0D3

    Interesting the different comments made by the local news at that time.

  419. And in 2008 they are calling John Taylor the ” champion of right”.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705261304/LDS-President-Taylor-recalled-as-champion-of-right.html

    So I guess in a nut shell what I am trying to say – is there any wonder why so many are confused?

    Now top it all off with and Attorney General and others in place saying they will NOT enforce the laws of the land.

    Gee, I wonder why there is a problem. One kick butt task force is what they need. A task force that is run by those who are not afraid of doing their job.

  420. What ever happened to Harry Reid’s federal task force? Was that just talk?

  421. Anon at 4:18 PM

    “Those were not threats as they appear to people who do not know the culture. The people to whom it was addressed fully understand the meaning of the letter”

    =======================

    Yeah I understood it. They are telling everyone they are going to hell, just like Warren was telling them.

    Same story, different messenger.

    Just what the FLDS wanted for Christmas, four of their own leaders

    Warren and Lyle vs Willie and Willie

    Telling them they are going to hell.

    Just perfect.

  422. Sis

    My take is that Reid did that on the part of influential constituency, not nec from a heartfelt desire to have it run its course and solve anything.

    It turned out to be hot air, however the latest events point to a real need.

    If he was floating it with half an idea of legalizing it for the “good polygamists” which I somewhat suspect also this is a lost cause.

  423. Interesting article in the Salt Lake Tribune by Troy Bowles :

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/opinion/52412726-82/human-rights-polygamy-religious.html.csp

  424. Question about “being a Mother in Zion” – Naomie Jessop Jeffs doesn’t have any children in this life. Will she be a mother in Zion?

  425. BiB
    thanks for the link

    I still think we need a separate “think tank” thread for an integrated legal approach to making the practice of polygamy illegal. Thus far there are laws against polygamy but given the number of individuals involved it would be very hard to actually prosecute and imprison all nor would that necessarily be a good way to get at the problem.

    If on the other hand all the ways in which polygamy becomes doable (welfare, home schooling regulations, timing and review of certification, tax laws and loop holes, etc) that make polygamy sustainable were tightened then the difficulty of practicing polygamy would squeeze the large cults out… and, hopefully, make it an unsustainable practice.

  426. That last line in the Jessopi letter was a humdinger…

    “We are at peace, leaving judgement in the hands of God. As you can see for yourself he is very capable.”

  427. I always heard Unkie Fred never even fathered anybody his own self because he had some medical “difficulty”… conveniently,seems he was loaded up with several other men’s progeny, I guess so’s he could still be exalted??
    But what about the childless Naomi, we may ask?? (wsj forgot to have her write down how “marvelous” that situation was…)

    I woulda said it’s a very pregnant question..but any time we try to figure out flds, we’ve got yet another mother of all questions on our hands…this whole thing just breeds mischief

  428. Are you sure that was “we are at peace?” or “we are in pieces??”

    Unkidub never seemed to leave anything in the hands of God..oops, that’s right, he WAS God.. when not too stressed…
    He wasn’t so sure there a couple times, but the weeping faithful made sure he got his God mojo back…kinda gets ya right there, doesn’t it??

  429. Gretchen — Uncle Fred was sterile as a result of a case of mumps. Flora Jessop’s father was Uncle Fred’s brother. He took 7 of the daughters born to his first wife (Flora’s mother) and gave them to Uncle Fred and his wives to raise. (from Flora’s book, Church of Lies)

  430. Funny, how things turn out; Texans say, “Don’t Mess with Texas” and the Two Willie’s fromd the FLDS wanna talk about the ,”Mess in Texas”.

  431. HHG-
    I think a think tank is a great idea. I think if they can’t arrest polygamists, they should start fining their pants off. Crack down on the welfraud and polygamy will become unaffordable for the majority. They should take the money from paid fines and set up a REAL safety net for people who need help getting out, sort of like a palimony/child support trust fund.

  432. I was pondering that Thug Boy is spiriting himself quickly back down to yfz area maybe ’cause wsj’s stable is up for grabs?? Why waste perfectly good breeding stock?

  433. http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/aug/20/sketches-of-warren-jeffs-trial/

    Sketches from the trial by Mejo Okon.

  434. gretchen, when Thugly was yapping outside of the courthouse after the sentencing phase’s verdict of life in prison + 20 years for Warren the pedophile, Thugly was flapping his gums about tearing down the guard tower and the barbed wire fence. And he wanted a cell phone in every female’s possession.

    Thugly sounded like he was personally going to “tear down that wall” (in Ronald Reagan speak) and set those women free. Just more Willie the Thug BS IMHO.

    Maybe you have hit closer to the truth. Not one of those 50 “brides” in that photo was ugly. Warren absconded with the prettiest from the litters. Maybe Willie the Thug does want a piece of that action for himself! But only on God’s orders … of course.

  435. Proud Texan – the sketches done during the trial were Awesome. There was another person that did some but I can’t remember the name.

    I think there was only one or two tops that I didn’t recognize and that was only due to the fact that we had not seen these people prior.

    Very very talented.

  436. Here’s an article from SLCTrib on subject of Joseph Smith & Warren Jeffs on subject of polygamy.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52371806-78/smith-says-women-wives.html.csp?page=1

    Interesting article IMO it tries to be fair by asking viewpoints from all sides.

  437. San Angelo paper says that leaedrship at YFZ is “in upheaval”

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/aug/20/jeffs-maintains-control-but-time-may-be-limited/

  438. Another article that recaps Warren Jeffs and FLDS.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/aug/20/as-outsiders-celebrate-conviction-of-a-common-in/

    IMO the San Angelo paper is doing a much better job than the two SLC, UT papers.

  439. Even with WJ no longer having 24 access to phone priviledges, I wonder if the ‘faithful’ are still shelling out the $$$ for his phone cards. SInce they’ve been told not to look at or listen to anything detrimental to der profit, I wonder where that $$$ is going? Someone’s pocket, is my guess. Although, since they are saddled with his legal bills, for time and eternity, I’m sure they’ll give even more believing that he will be freed one day to return to them. Manipulation is still the name of the game. With 2 Willie’s and Lyle vying for their ‘salvation’, it’s all a game to see who can outdo the others.

  440. A Texan, I just love how Principle Voice of Polygamy always says they are a non-profit entity. non PROFIT? Oxymoron here? They may be a non-profit corporation chartered in Utah, but they are not a standard non-profit IRS tax exempt entity. They have claimed their “(pending 501c3 status)” awaiting IRS approval for MANY years now. I wonder what the holdup is?

    “Principle Voices is a non-profit (pending 501c3 status) education and advocacy organization. Our mission is to (1) educate others about polygamous families and their culture, to (2) encourage empowerment of individuals and families from the polygamous culture, and to (3) provide crisis referrals and response to those in the culture.”

    http://principlevoices.org/

  441. More form the Principle Voices of Polygamy web site page on “Positions on Current Issues” — NOTHING ABOUT WARREN JEFFS HAVING SEX WITH LITTLE GIRLS, but instead more “Gag me with a spoon” and “only in Utah thoughts”:

    Position on Polygamy Legislation

    **********

    Abuse

    • We abhor abuse wherever it happens. We do not believe abuse is inherent in polygamy. Abuse crosses all socio-economic lines and does exist anywhere human beings gather.

    Arranged Marriages

    • We strongly support free choice in matters of marriage and personal relationships.

    • We object to coercion in marriage whether in the home, church or state. However, arranged marriages exist in many cultures and do not necessarily constitute force or crime.

    DCFS

    • We are working to facilitate a social safety net for the preservation of families by (1) minimizing frivolous or unwarranted DCFS intervention, and (2) generating awareness of family rights and responsibilities if interventions do occur.

    Decriminalization

    • We do not seek legal licensing for “spiritual” marriages. Decriminalization is not the same as legalization.

    • We do seek decriminalization of polygamy by: (1) the removal or appropriate alteration of laws specifically targeting polygamists (i.e. bigamy, child bigamy, cohabitation, etc.); and (2) the ultimate removal of Utah’s constitutional prohibition against polygamy.

    Education

    • Education is invaluable. We encourage excellence in academic achievements.

    Federal Marriage Amendment

    • We oppose legislation or Constitutional amendments (especially defining marriage) which restrict rather than protect individual freedoms and rights. We believe that marriage, ideally, is a private contract which should not be regulated by the state.

    Homosexuality

    • Religious convictions aside, we believe that individual freedom should be protected; we are not threatened by choices different from our own.

    • We believe individuals can work together in peace and harmony regardless of race, religion, sexual preference or lifestyle.

    Note: Fundamentalist Mormonism, like mainstream Mormonism, accepts Biblical denunciations of homosexuality.

    Incest

    • We oppose incest.

    • Polygamy is distinct from incest.

    • Definitions of incest vary among states and cultures. For example, 26 U.S. states allow first cousins to marry, and many cultures allow Uncle/niece marriages. Note: A simple dictionary definition of incest is “sexual intercourse between people regarded as too closely related to marry each other.” Obeying the Law We believe in being law-abiding citizens and assets to the communities in which we live. For any law that we may consider unjust, we assert our Constitutional right to work to legally change or overturn it. This includes laws prohibiting plural marriage, which we are working to decriminalize.

    Underage Marriages/Teen Marriages

    • We strongly encourage consenting adult marriages. We believe it is generally wise to marry at or beyond the age of 18, whether in monogamy or polygamy.

    • Ultimately, polygamous parents should have the same rights as monogamous/single parents to consent to the marriage, legal or otherwise, of their 16- or 17-year-old children, regardless of whether or not that relationship is monogamous or polygamous.

    • We oppose coercion or force in marital decisions.

    Welfare

    • Allegations of widespread welfare abuse in polygamous families are exaggerated.

    • For those families suffering economic setbacks, welfare use should not be considered welfare abuse.

    • Confusion over the legal status of a plural wife must be resolved in order to eliminate double standards and to end discrimination. Current laws and policies legally define a plural wife as a “single mother”.

    Women

    Ideally, polygamy frees and empowers women, generally creates a better support system, and may even provide a better opportunity for personal pursuits and individual fulfillment.

  442. OOPS, I forgot to attach the link to the above cited web page. Play close attention to the “Welfare” section. Ya just gotta LOVE that BS!
    http://principlevoices.org/about/positions-on-current-issues

  443. Here is another one: http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/aug/20/women-complicit-in-sex-crimes-some-say/

    Really good article. Executive Director Donnalee Sarda, a licensed professional counselor, has worked with former FLDS women, who she says have made up only 2 percent of the agency’s caseload.

    She said the group isn’t so different from the rest of her clients.”There is a very similar dynamic that goes on with the FLDS women as goes on with traditionally battered women,” Sarda said. “They have learned to be helpless and they’re trapped in their own cycle. They’re trapped in their own little world.”

    What is interesting is the difference in how the women are treated in this story as compared to the other cases out there. They would have been locked up already.

  444. If anyone here knows that lady Donnalee Sarda ask her to take a look at those videos from Safety Net. I know she might not be able to say anything “outloud” about them but I am betting this woman has her poop in a scoop and she knows who to contact to make things right.

    Wouldn’t it be really really nice to see someone take charge of the whole thing? If I could pick one person to pull all this together and make things right it would be Colin Powell. I think I just might write him a real letter.

  445. mc1199, the latest “shelling out $$” by the faithful FLDS members is probably going to defend the embezzlers (crooks and thieves) of the Colorado City Fire Department’s latest ripoff. Ya know, the CC public tax payers’ cash cow of the month slush fund?

    I can’t wait until they get back to the investigation of the CC Water company. It should be entertaining how Mike Picaretta explains why that $11,000 was spent on Bernina sewing machines. I can only imagine that the FLDS faithful ran out of water piping hose, so they had to hire many local seamstresses (needing a dozen with new Bernina sewing machines) to utilize their own talents and go about testing the faithful = per the dictates of Mr. Waren S. Jeffs, their convicted pedophile profit.

  446. Not to mention the chocolates, diapers, etc. [Lingerie?] Weren’t there some smoke turkeys or something also? All the necessary stuff to run a well oiled fire dept! There’s lots of ‘splainin’ to do. The explanation ought to be a doozy!

  447. I feel a little conflicted about charges being pressed against the women. My initial reaction is to say “definitely”. They are responsible for their actions – or lack of. But….(and I know this sounds sexist), but the thought of some of these women in a women’s prison…in Texas. Sweet Jesus, have mercy!

  448. Telegram intercepted showing latest analysis of phrase “We are at peace.”

    “We” (telegram-ese for “Willies”)..stop… are…stop….at….stop…Warren’s…stop…. “pieces.” stop

  449. How different can prison be from being behind YFZ fencing?

  450. Woopise, there they went. The posts. Talking to the hand are you?

  451. P.S. I personally adore the above concept of “cash cow of the month.” (anon 12:25)

    P.P.S. Well, for the women, as for men, there’s protective custody units in every jail, yes? It does give a pretty good bubble around inmates, it’s very boring, etc, of course there are still plenty of weirdo’s to rub elbows with. County jails are also available, yes??
    I think it just might do wonders to “get flds attention” for good. Everywhere else in the US, pedophiles are prosecuted when their deeds come to light. It is obvious to me that many people above the age of 18 clearly were accessory to numerous underage marraiages at yfz. They’ve done it for many years before yfz was built , in other states.
    Truth be told, dozens should be prosecuted from long before yfz was built. People like Elissa Wall’s mother should suffer, too. It’s such a disgrace. They just cannot let the girls continue their schooling or have a few more years, or choose about whether or not to marry at all, can they. I think of Elissa Wall’s mother not putting her foot down with Warren, when her 8th grade girl was pleading for mercy to not have to marry someone she hated. I don’t want to hear about the pressure Mrs. Wall was under. It’s all just pathetic. pathetic, pathetic.
    At yfz, other people watching as those age 12 were ritualized?? No, no, no, no umbrella for religious belief, maybe just some leniency in length of sentence for the fear factor towards Warren, that’s all. NO.. Lots of women could have banded together and gone to police and said, “enough.” Women went off the ranch together for shopping, I have heard. They could have told all they know, begged for help for all those they cared about living at the ranch, and they would have gotten lots of help. They could have been enormously helpful to authorities getting to the bottom of flds misconduct much, much sooner.
    I’ve wondered who the heck was taking the “marriage” and “anniversay” photos, too. Marriage to the profit especially was a big feather in any flds cap, this is disgusting to think of how many knew full well.
    I remember reading Theresa Jeffs’ diary entry about how her mother was shocked when she was notified the 15 year old was being tapped by Warren for quick marriage to Merrill Jessop’s son. This is a woman who I believe is Warren’s only legal wife (Annette,) who had been in photos where Warren appears, from back in the 80’s and 90’s. I can’t believe she had any surprise left in her after so many years of Warren taking other women and girls, and decades of living in this constant-message society of “marriage, marriage, marriage,” but that’s what the girl wrote in her journal, “mother is shocked..”) If I remember correctly.
    It was this “marriage” of a 15 year old Warren daughter to a 33 year old son of Merril Jessop, that was Warren’s payment to “receive” 12 year old Merrianne, one of Merril’s daughters, for 50 year old Warren. DAUGHTERS FOR SALE.

    If there is never any prosecution for ALL adults who enable rapes of the underage within flds, there will never be much, if any, of a slowing of their cash flow. Marriage and childbirth is the core of flds religion, imo, it’s what they do, it’s their whole deal. If there is no hard and fast enforcement of whatever the consent laws are where flds entrenches itself, there will continue to not be enough fear in flds hearts for laws of the US. There will continue to be a double standard. One for groups like them, and one for all others who offend in this category in the US.
    Time and again, non-flds people who had contact with the yfz children reported they were told “no age is too young for marriage.”

  452. Gretchen, Merril’s son got 2 for warren getting the 12 year old. The triple play had Leroy getting Warren’s niece LeAnn also. Bet both Leroy and Raymond are having 2nd thoughts about that day.

  453. Please make new comments on the new general discussion thread:

    https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2011/08/21/dear-brother-lyle-general-discussion-62/

    Make sure you read the post as well.

    Thanks.

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