The Trial You’ve All Been Waiting For – Warren Jeffs #3

Bubba Lyle there to offer support

Another of the sheeple hauling boxes.


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~ by FLDS TEXAS on August 4, 2011.

275 Responses to “The Trial You’ve All Been Waiting For – Warren Jeffs #3”

  1. Heard that the prosecution had the witness for X examine, did that happen last night?

    Love to hear what Roundy thought of Warren’s misbehaving ways.

    Expect he will support him in his right to do that, being a good suckup like the others.

  2. He then called a sect member, J.D. Roundy, and questioned him for four hours about their faith and asked him to read passages from the faith’s texts.

    When it was the state’s turn to cross-examine the witness, prosecutor Eric Nichols asked Roundy questions meant to undercut Jeffs’ assertions that his actions were based on his beliefs.

    “Have you ever had women come to your room and lay prostrate before you?” Nichols asked.

    “No,” Roundy replied.

    “Have you ever instructed girls how to prepare themselves to have sex with you?” Nichols asked.

    “No.” Roundy replied.

    “Have you ever engaged in sexual relations with a 15-year-old?” Nichols asked.

    “No.” Roundy replied.

    “Have you ever had sexual relations with a 12-year-old?” Nichols asked.
    “No.” Roundy replied.

    Jeffs is charged with two counts of sexual assault on a child and one count of bigamy stemming from a 2008 raid on a ranch near Eldorado, Texas, operated by his church. He is expected to be tried on the bigamy charge later

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/08/04/texas.polygamist.jeffs/

  3. I believe it will be more difficult for WSJ to maintain rigid control of the flock once he is convicted and put in a Texas penitentiary. He has supposedly used $23,000 worth of calling cards in the last 5 months. He will not be allowed that much telephone time once he’s out of county lock-up and in the pen.

    Of course, he could still have visitors shuffle papers in and out, but that time will be more limited as well.

    Maybe it will lead to him having another “I’m not the prophet, I never was the prophet” revelation in a weak moment.

    Whatever transpires, I’m sure he will hang on as tightly as he can, as long as he can. He’s definitely not the kind to cede even an ounce of control.

    BTW, I’m about half-way through Sam Brower’s book, Prophet’s Prey. It’s good — mostly stuff I’d already read here and there but nice to have it all placed in order and sourced.

  4. Interesting report from KSL in Salt Lake City, watch the video, interesting.

    Video Courtesy of KSL.com

  5. Jay said that this conviction “will drive a stake in the heart of the FLDS’.

    I think Warren has been driving them stakes faster than a 15 yr old flds kid with a nail gun, it would sure be hard to keep the faith.

    Suppose they will get a new prophet though and keep the same wardrobe.

    But they are going to have a hard time showing their faces in town from now on.

    And poor Mitt. If Warren was a true Prophet he would say that Mitts run for President was crippled and fatally wounded.

  6. From the ksl link (ownde by the LDS )

    Jeffs trial could have lasting impact on Utah communities, courts
    The trial of Warren Jeffs is being closely followed in Utah by a number of groups, including law enforcement agencies, other polygamists and former members Utah’s various polygamist sects. Some see the Texas trial as a potential watershed event.

  7. I am reminded of the show that was put on when this 12 year old was taken into foster care. Also remember those who defended her sicko mother who made her cry in public. Wonder how those apologists feel now knowing that her mother gave her over for ritualistic rape.

  8. Yeah, and her daddy is going on trial for handing her over, hooo boy this is going to leave a mark

  9. Also thinking about the group sex and the psychological impact. The women are not allowed to be individuals even in the most intimate moments of their lives.

  10. Its really hard to read this evidence and then deny the “sex slave” accusation also
    .

  11. Exactly betty, the women and children are taught to serve their owners the prophet, priesthood and FLDS Church. The 14th Amendment in the Constitution redresses anyone owning another, so this religious sect is in violation of of our basic Constitutional Supreme Law, by teaching this tenet of their faith.

    Warren Jeffs yesterday, made the point that there is only one ‘Living’ Prophet in the world, at a time. Witness JD Roundy espoused the ‘Kool Aide’ moment when he testified to that teaching from the ‘Book of Mormon’, So ‘God’s Mouthpiece’ is none other than Warren Steed Jeffs who as the sole “Living” prophet holds supreme authority here on Earth. As the ‘living’ prophet Warren has ultimate authority over all scriptural texts, like the ‘Book of Mormon’, and he alone holds the final and deciding decrees as to all beliefs and teachings, he alone is the only exclusive and ultimate authority.

    So convicting Warren S. Jeffs of two counts of sexual assault is impossible because his authority trumps all scriptures and ‘Gentile’ authority(s). Now which flavor of ‘Kool Aide’ do you like, orange or grape?

  12. Of course, he could still have visitors shuffle papers in and out, but that time will be more limited as well.
    texasconnie said this on August 4, 2011 at 6:53 AM

    Actually he won’t be able to in prison visitation. Any and everything he receives and sends out will be searched. Visitors can’t take anything but a bag of quarters into visitation and that is for snacks you can purchase for yourself and the inmate you are visiting.

  13. ProudTexan – thanks for that clarification about what Warren can receive in prison. Really gonna put a cramp in his sole dictatorship.

  14. Meanwhile–back to the circus…

  15. How long is Judge going to allow Jeffs to just keep reading out of the book of mormon??? this could go on for days!

  16. Just a note about J. Dee Roundy. He has 4 wives that I know of. He married 3 of them when each was 19 and then married the 4th her husband, Brian Balmforth Jeffs who is Warren’s 1/2 brother, was exed. The 4th wife was 39.

    I don’t even show that 42 year old Roundy has any of his daughters married. He appears to be one of the forgotten in Short Creek, only becoming useful as a gopher and fall guy for his profit.

  17. CAJim: Warren Jeffs yesterday, made the point that there is only one ‘Living’ Prophet in the world, at a time. Witness JD Roundy espoused the ‘Kool Aide’ moment when he testified to that teaching from the ‘Book of Mormon’, So ‘God’s Mouthpiece’ is none other than Warren Steed Jeffs who as the sole “Living” prophet holds supreme authority here on Earth. As the ‘living’ prophet Warren has ultimate authority over all scriptural texts, like the ‘Book of Mormon’, and he alone holds the final and deciding decrees as to all beliefs and teachings, he alone is the only exclusive and ultimate authority.

    ————————————————-

    So Warren puts the most precious documents of the mainstream LDS church up as evidence of HIS authority. Isn’t this what he planned all along; to use underage marriage to force a “do over” of the 1890 renouncement of polygamy, only this time the REAL Mormon church, the FLDS, would prevail and right the wrong that the apostate mainstream LDS committed when they renounced polygamy under pressure from the U.S. government.

    I’ve heard that the only thing Fundamentalists hate more than the government is apostates, with the mainstream LDS church being the most evil apostate of all.

    So this is Warren’s chance at killing to two birds with one stone – the US Gov’mint and the LDS Church. I don’t think either one is going to blink.

  18. theres another thing that puts fear and sadness in my alternative heart, the fact that the women involved with WJ did not give informed consent to live in a power exchange relationship.

    For them – this isn’t roleplaying, pretend play or the least bit consensual. They have NO OTHER CHOICE.

    Even if he goes to jail, what is to happen to the people who are still in the compounds? They’ve been programmed to live this way. Is anyone going to help them?

  19. I was struck by two aspects to the proceedings yesterday that are curious. I would think that if Warren Jeffs wanted a professional witness to talk with authority about the FLDS Church faith that he would choose a Bishop or established Elder, like Joe Jessop from the ‘National Geographic’ cover story, instead of JD Roundy? Secondly, the tape recordings seemed to be portraying the sex instructions and recorded sexual assault as some form of prayer within the ‘Heavenly Session’, as though that would justify or prove how sacred the physical act of sex is to the FLDS membership? Very odd argument and maybe I am reading something into these recordings but the prayerful refrains and ‘Amens’ seemed awfully inappropriate to be said at those specific moments. I am curious to see if this develops into one of the defensive rationales for the sexual assaults?

  20. “theres another thing that puts fear and sadness in my alternative heart, the fact that the women involved with WJ did not give informed consent to live in a power exchange relationship.”

    Precisely – that is my concern as well. Consent obtained from underage subjects, or those subject to coercion does not constitute consent.

  21. And, we’re back …….

    lwhitehurst Lindsay Whitehurst
    Headed in for day 9 of #WarrenJeffs trial. @natecarlisle saw 2 #FLDS men bringing in 12 banker’s boxes of books.

  22. so he is going to go through 12 boxes of books??? OMG

  23. OMG…is right..I was hoping this would be over with this week…now..not so sure…???

  24. Maybe Warren was feeling a little left out when he saw how much the Rangers were carrying inside.

    So he brings in 12 banker boxes. A Lead in to phase 2 & 3 ??

    I sure hope so. 🙂 Even if there was only one page in each box.

    Work is now cancelled for me today.

    You guys let me know if you see any new guys with sunglasses. 🙂

  25. Judge Walther will give him a specified time frame, I am sure.
    I would say:
    ” Bring me God himself as a witness, so he can substantiate your defense.”

  26. Judge Walther has closed the case,, no more witnesses for Jeffs,, so closing arguments next

  27. The defense has now rested. Closing arguments about to begin.

    natecarlisle Nate Carlisle
    Judge declares #WarrenJeffs has rested his defense. Closing arguments to begin in minutes.

  28. Maybe the 12 boxes of books is for his closing arguments??? LOL

  29. natecarlisle Nate Carlisle
    Judge made her declaration after dismissing #WarrenJeffs lone defense witness from stand and Jeffs went 3 minutes w/out calling another.

  30. I was just about to say the same thing–DD….

    hope we get to find out what is inside those 12 boxes without having this go on for day…but..I guess he has a time limit???

  31. Thank goodness closing arguements are going to start

  32. Just heard on In Session…Judge said no new evidence???

    Darn..we may not find out what’s in those 12 boxes….

  33. gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    Media outside waiting for TX attorney general to arrive for closing arguments. #Warrenjeffs yfrog.com/kew29zyj

  34. I predict less than 45 minutes before the jury returns a verdict from when deliberation starts.

  35. gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    Media outside waiting for TX attorney general to arrive for closing arguments. #Warrenjeffs yfrog.com/kew29zyj

    Sounds like Jeffs was back to “answer them nothing” this morning. Only defense witness called was J.D. Roundy; only questions asked were about religion and reading scripture passages. Judge asked if he had other witnesses to call. Silence. Judge deemed his silence as resting the defense.

    InSession’s Beth Karas reporting that judge has limited closing arguments to one hour, but didn’t catch if that was one hour total or one hour each.

    Attorney General Greg Abbott and state prosecutor Eric Nichols — THANK YOU for bringing these cases.

  36. gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    TX AG: Time for judgment to be rendered in #Warrenjeffs trial, extremely pleased w/ fast pace of case, judge’s handling

  37. Okay, does anyone know how much time in jail he can get without parole?

  38. My guess as to what’s in the boxes is his father’s and Leroy Johnson’s sermons. among other teachings and such from the FLDS leadership. also could be Journals of Discourses or something like that.

  39. Connie,, Each side gets 30 minutes each for closing statements

  40. florajessop Flora Jessop
    #WarrenJeffs That ranch is not sacred ground, that temple is not sacred ground, CHILDREN are a sacred ground.

  41. i have paid programming on insessions channel

  42. DD1 – thanks for info on 30 minutes per side for closing.

    I believe the sentencing possibility ranges from 5 years to life. Don’t know if that’s total or per count. Sentence will be imposed by jury.

  43. First degree felony assault 5-99 years

    Second degree felony assault up to 20 years

    hope i got that right

  44. Hope its for life and he lives a long, long time.

  45. i have paid programming on insessions channel

    Anonymous said this on August 4, 2011 at 10:22 AM

    ————-

    that’s the west coast feed for IS. IS starts at 11am CDT on that channel.

  46. Even better would be for time and eternity.

  47. LOL ruthiesgirl. Wouldn’t it be great to hear Judge Walther say that?

  48. Who’s at the trial? Could you give Judge Walther a note asking her to add “time and eternity” to the sentencing options for jury? LOL

  49. Last night I think it was Sam Bower who said he heard on the sex tape Naomi Jeffs voice. That was the first I had heard anyone else identified.

    So how did he know it was her? Was it in a document? Did Jeffs call her name??? Why is she not in jail?

  50. Yeah, on Dr. Phil last night, Sam Brower said that he heard Naomi Jeffs voice on the tape and that she was a “trainer” for the younger “wives”.

  51. Watergirl – it might have been in the transcript given to jury to follow along with the audiotape, or her presence could have been inferred from the fact that Naomi was the favorite wife and in charge of giving the “heavenly session” training to the child brides (2nd audiotape). Warren did call the 12-year-old victim by name on the tape.

  52. WaterG, you’re bringing up Flora Jessops’s topic of the plural wives and mothers have to be taken to account on these sex trafficking and sexual assault felonies. The Texas AG, Texas Rangers, Sheriff and Grand Jury have failed to indict, investigate or arrest any of the willing parents, cooperative mothers or tutoring plural wives on how to ‘get close’. Flora is completely right in pointing out that the women have been willing, aiders and abbettors in these felonies. Naomi Jeffs has probably not been arrested because only a audio tape is not enough evidence to build a criminal case.

  53. Sam Brower also gave the victims names and Dr. Phil cautioned him about that on air.

  54. What really struck me about both the HLN shows last night was how dumfounded the hosts were about how bad the FLDS situation is for females of all ages and how long it has been going on. They kept asking in essence -“how can we stop the oppression of women and the sexual assaults and make sure it doesn’t continue”

  55. I think it’s a valid point — necessity to charge mothers as accessories. But one, as mentioned, you need concrete evidence. And two, prosecutors will be reluctant to look like bullies and create a PR nightmare, which is what caused state government’s sudden about-face in returning children to YFZ.

    Before they charge women, they MUST be prepared to fight the PR war because there will be a huge outcry from the public, who have little knowledge of the issue, and it’s hard to become very informed if your info is coming from media sound bites. Few people will take the time to become as informed as readers of this forum.

    Many parallels between 1953 ShortCreek raid, which resulted in Arizona’s governor being embarrassed and backing down and what happened in the wake of the 2008 raid. Unless and until Texas officials are ready to stiffen their spines and “just do it” … it won’t happen. In 2008 somebody high up cried “uncle” and Texas folded their cards. (Don’tcha just love mixed metaphors?)

  56. texasconnie,
    that is why I think they wanted Jeffs first. It is out there and the media could not possibly be as gulled on a second PR campaign after this….
    So they have some cover in going after the aiders and abettors.
    HHG

  57. If you have tape and documents that show she was RIGHT THERE when it happened and she didn’t try to stop it then she is complicit.

    I get it that there is a PR nightmare on charging Mothers who can claim they didn’t know what would happen to their little girls. But, when she actually helps in the act it is a different matter.

  58. I read comments elsewhere, people think the TEMPLE at YFZ is now a monument to FLDS child molestation.

    Should it stay or should it go?

    Either way it’ll never be the same. What a waste!

  59. Watergirl, my understanding is that the mothers would not be there while sexual assault happening. But mothers’ complicity would certainly apply when they hand over their daughters to be married to the prophet — and for that event they are usually, but not always, present.

  60. I just read,, he can face up to a maximum of 199 yrs on these two charges

  61. Two points on how to deal with this fanatical culture that has grown so brazen that they ignore, defy and attack the Law Enforcement, Elected Officials and Judicial System. Look at the personal attacks and repeated attempts to replace and eliminate Judge Walther, Judge Lindberg and any other justice that doesn’t give the FLDS Church a favorable ruling. Yes, elected officials lack the stamina and political will to pursue these organized, financed and committed religious zealots. Law Enforcement and Elected Officials got hammered during the YFZ Rescue and we now know that their actions were far more correct and justified than was generally known at the time.

    So what we are facing is a highly organized syndicate, sophisticated in influencing institutions and local authorities to fend off their covert agendas to pursue a wave of crimes. Look at Eldorado and schleicher County wholly ill prepared to handle the onslaught of an organized religious cult, financially armed and sophisticated in it’s legal wranglings to swamp and over-power local authorities and government. The RICO Acft was written and designed to redress just such a underworld crime organization, i say it’s past time to use it.

  62. Thanks juliekan. It is on now, they had some guy on there doing a computer/high tech face identity thing on Casey Anthony. For whatever reason I thought of Patricia Keate. 🙂

    Someone mentioned that there would be bad PR if they arrested the mothers. In many many other cases where parents are using/trading their children for some type of gain, both parents have been arrested.

    No matter if it is for a piece in the sky or payments on a mini van- with billions of pages collected from the YFZ, and all the slippery hand shakes I would say that they would be able to find the evidence to show that the parents got something in return. jmo

    Authorities in central Georgia have arrested a couple they say traded sex with their 14-year-old daughter for payments on their minivan.

    Dodge County sheriff’s Capt. Tony Winborn said the parents were arrested Monday and are in jail awaiting a bond hearing. They face child molestation and pandering charges. http://www.wsbtv.com/news/22730101/detail.html

  63. Wow!! Check out mark Shurtleffs twitter page.

    🙂

  64. Another tactic not utilized as far as I know in Utah/Arizona is the use of child labor law violations to financially cripple the FLDS. There is a so-called Christian polygamy group in West Texas that has had to face heavy fines/jail time for leader because of these laws.

  65. Think back to when the YFZ Incursion had just transpired and Willie R. “Thug” Jessop stated to a waiting Press Corp, that the FLDS Church was no longer going to allow minor marriages within States that forbade it and every FLDS member would be strongly advised to not proceed with any ‘Child Bride’ marriages. Then come back to yesterday when the Prophet Warren Steed Jeffs could and should have recanted the celestial sealings of teen girls, did he infact restate what Willie Jessop said to the Press Corp or was another ‘bait and switch’ moment displayed? There is no real plan to observe statutory laws that forbid minor marriages, rather you can be assured that this prophet will defend his criminal right to celestial seal anyone at anytime, regardless of any ‘Gentile’ laws. This mindset has prevailed from past FLDS Mormon prophets and will be the the mindset for future Mormon FLDS Prophets, without any real change.

  66. merkelumc 11:36: I watched the same program. Do you mean to say Dr. Drew not Dr. Phil?

  67. Yep, Dr. Drew 🙂

  68. Jury deliberating. Any guesses how long this will take?

  69. No more than 2 hours.

  70. 5 minutes… then guilty as charged

    kasoe

  71. I think less than 2 hours

  72. After the jury finds verdict, then the listen to the punishment phase, today

  73. DD1 – Didn’t AAG Eric Nichols subpeona most of WSJ wives? Since they weren’t called during the trial, will they be called during the punishment phase?

    Has anyone heard? Have they run any of them to ground?

    Thanks.

  74. IMO it will be guilty as charged, I think ole warren really PO’d the jury with his courtroom behavior and the tapes just made even more angry. Not smart there Warren, make the judge mad, and then get the jury really angry. Remember there ole Warren the jury decides the sentence. An angry jury spells one thing, your permanent address will be Huntsville, Texas for the rest of your life, or perhaps on one of the prison farms where you can chop cotton under the hot Texas sun.

  75. Betcha he rings the bell with 100 years +

  76. On IN sesion in a few minutes Emily Detoto one of Jeffs Attorneys is going to be interviewed, of course we know what she is going to say,, that he will appeal the verdict when given

  77. Miele,, the supeoned the wives ,, but they knew they wouldn’t show up

  78. gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com

    FYI, #Warrenjeffs “I am at peace” statement came after 20 min of silence. Around the same time, he turned to jury w slight smile on his face
    7 minutes ago

    //////

    freakin creeper

  79. Really anxious to see the 700 bad acts that will be shown in the penalty phase.

  80. DD1 – Thanks.

    Can they just ignore a subpoena?

  81. he he Good one from Flora on twitter!

    florajessop

    #warrenjeffs is at peace its now up to the jury to disturb that peace.

  82. Warren forgot to show remorse for his crimes, instead tried to give justification.

    Guess these guys are still unclear of the con-cept

  83. he really really believes he is entitled to marry them young as the prophet of God….I could see him getting off as delusional….except that his records show that despite his delusions he knew the law of the land so he knows civil right from wrong.

    HHG

    The final statement “I am at peace” reminds that when he was captured by the FBI Sam Brower or one of those white hats who had been on his case saw him and Warren said “I forgive you” which annoyed the white hat no end.

  84. Bring your BOM with you on your future haunts, Warren, there will be More-men there.

  85. Did he stutter? I think he said “I just wanted a little piece”

  86. (read in reverse order)
    gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    Jury now deliberating. Punishment phase still to come. #Warrenjeffs
    16 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

    gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    FYI, #Warrenjeffs “I am at peace” statement came after 20 min of silence. Around the same time, he turned to jury w slight smile on his face
    17 minutes ago

    gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    Atty said she wishes #Warrenjeffs had more time to prepare his case. Says all his requests for delay were proper, could b grounds for appeal

    Emily DeToto on InSession now … saying same spiel over and over

  87. That last comment was mine, not gosanangelo.com

  88. Good thing Warren was keepin sweet during his closing argument.

    He seems well groomed.

  89. I just don’t understand this man. Mark Shurtleff is such a poop head.
    ( yes, in my head I had a different word than poop)

    Listen to him here. And he has something at three concerning Jeffs. I am trying to track down what he said about the Rolling Stone article and the Kingston clan.

    http://kcpw.org/blog/local-news/2011-08-04/shurtleff-discusses-jeffs-trial-as-it-reaches-conclusion/

  90. “I am at peace”. Wrong answer, Warren. You brought your FLDS Mormon Exodus to West Texas, total chaos ensues due to your doing and you ceclare that you’re at peace, not for long. I trust the Jury arrives quickly at a guilty verdict and then sentences him to a hefty sentence to show that such crimes demand a heavy toll.

  91. Yeah, Warren will try to throw things up against the wall.

    Seems like the Court went above and beyond the call of duty to give him a fair shake.

    Once he is sentenced, he should accept it. He had plenty of time.

    Years in fact.

  92. SamBrowerpi Sam Brower
    #WarrenJeffs says “I am at peace” for his closing statement. At peace with what? Marrying 12yr olds, destroying families, & brainwashing?

  93. On the punishement phase, the state may call carolyn jessop

  94. http://kpcw.org/2011/08/community-voices-august-4-2011/

    “This is about two different Polygamy clans inside Utah”.

    The Kingston clan
    Warren Jeffs clan

    I am going to check out this Jesse Hyde. The guy has a lot of guts imo

  95. gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    #WarrenJeffs jury has reportedly asked to review evidence. Not sure what it is. Stay tuned!

  96. AstrologyPie Good Golly Astrology
    With Pluto on his natal Venus and Uranus square, polygamist #WarrenJeffs should expect big changes in his love life when the jury returns.
    ———————————————

    This made me laugh.

  97. Oh Please,, your kidding, review what evidence?

  98. deputydog -lets hope so.
    texasconnie- haha i’m loving what your saying.
    me-i’m hoping he lives a very long time and gets sentenced to life in prison! too many hearts have been shattered, too many lives have been taken, too many families have been broken, too many brains have been brainwashed, too many children have been neglected and lacked education, too many girls (and boys i’m sure) have been raped! God please let justice be served!

  99. canadiangirl – yes, God please let justice be served. And God, please also help fold up the tent of the entire sickening circus of Jeffs and help all his victims that will be left when the dust settles. What will happen to them I wonder? They will need one on one counselling, deprogramming, and, in general, access to a lot of support and resources.

  100. Anonymous-so so so true!

  101. So while we are waiting: What is the ultimate solution, after WSj goes to jail?

    Maybe the place to start is with the question: What is the fundamental problem?

    It is clear that the FLDS was allowed to grow to the point that it became a self-sustaining community, virtually free of intrusive governmental actions (like law enforcement).

    I have no idea how sincere the founding families were in their faith, but once you have a closed, self-sustaining community that has been taught give their entire allegiance to a single man, you are going to get a WSJ.

    That is because, in a community of true believers, a ruthless, manipulative sociopath has the advantage.

    There is way too much power at stake: power over land, businesses, money, relationships, etc., for it to naturally fall to a well-intentioned man.

    So is polygamy the root problem – because that is what enabled the community to develop to the point it did?

    Or is does it have something to do with teaching children from birth that they must hand power over their lives to a single man? I realize that is their religion, but religious freedom does not give you the right to rape children.

    Should it give you the right to deprive them of all personal liberty and property? Can you really say they choose that life, a life in which they can be ordered away from their families or to give up their children, or their property or to work long hours for someone else’s profit – if they are never exposed to other options? and further, that rejecting that life means total disenfranchisement from the only world they know?

    The child rape is such a flagrant violation that it can’t be ignored.

    But what about the fact that it seems to be perfectly legal to breed and raise children into slavery – as long as you call that slavery a voluntary religious choice? It isn’t really voluntary if you are never offered any other options – and threatened with total personal lose if you refuse.

    Unless we address that, I think the exploitation going remain and fester, and that the FLDS and groups like them will simply become more sophisticated about avoiding detection and prosecution. They need to lose access to the main source of their power: isolated, vulnerable children with no choice but to follow where they lead.

    What steps can be taken to remove their power to exploit and harm?

  102. Dust settle? Warren has just created another storm.

    I just saw Ed Smart on InSession. Powerful! Amazing the similarities. jmo

  103. Jerrie: I totally agree 100%. with the total control of all information coming and going from the FLDS church, they’ve created perfect little drones that will do their bidding no matter what. the ones that show even a hint of rebellion are kicked out.

  104. Jay,

    The Creekbed contact would be fine.

    Would you ask him to call me with your phone #? He already has mine.

    Nameless

  105. Dust settle? Warren has just created another storm.

    I just saw Ed Smart on InSession. Powerful! Amazing the similarities. jmo

    walton said this on August 4, 2011 at 2:32 PM

    Mr. Walton, do you have a link for that? What’s that feonious profit done now to cause another strom?

  106. gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    BREAKING: #Warrenjeffs jury has asked to hear one of audiotapes again, they are being moved to a different courtroom to listen to it

  107. so does the jury come back now with just guilty/innocent or do they also come back with the sentence as well if guilty? Or do they do sentence later?

  108. Jury also asked to review Rebecca Musser testimony again.

  109. Maybe they want to make sure child was really there??? Somone might be questioning that?

    I think it’s a good thing they are going over things….

  110. I think they just come back with guilty/not guilty – watergirl.

    I could kind of understand them wanting to review the tapes. If you had on a set of headphones – and some guy was jumping up and down in front of you – you might want to listen again and give it your full attention.

    Katy Vine of Texas Monthly wrote that even though it was over the loud speaker system – people in the Courtroom didn’t agree on what they heard.

  111. Latest from Twitter (reverse chronological order)

    gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    Not sure which audiotape they want to hear:The one of #WarrenJeffs giving sexual instructions or the one of his alleged assault on 12yr old
    1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

    gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    It would take time to review her notes, find the specific portion. Mussers testified for several hours. #WarrenJeffs
    6 minutes ago

    gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    Judge said if #WarrenJeffs jury was in disagreement over a specific portion of testimony, court reporter could read it aloud, but…
    7 minutes ago

    gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    #WarrenJeffs trial also asked for copies of witness testimony (#FLDS Rebecca Musser) and highlighters, but judge denied request.

  112. Mr. Walton, do you have a link for that? What’s that feonious profit done now to cause another strom?

    A Texan said this on August 4, 2011 at 2:45 PM

    I am a grandma Walton 🙂

    He was on tv InSessions. He was talking about the story with Jeffs and the story about his daughter and in between everything and next to everything, on top of everything he was talking about the FLDS.

    I think his face was a little scrunched up because of lighting? But it might have been due to the fact that all three had very similar teachings/events etc. and he finally heard what he was saying. Hard to tell though.

    I once again have to give all the media a lot of credit for trying to capture this whole thing in a short amount of time.

    I wonder if Ruth C. will be able to see her kids?

  113. Hey if Shurtleff wants copies of the evidence does he have to pay for it?

  114. Wow, so WJ wants to hear the audio tapes, again. One last chance ro relive the moment before he goes to jail??? Argh!

  115. @mc1199 — No, the JURY wants to hear tape again. Twitter users append the #warrenjeffs hashtag to make their tweets searchable by topic.

  116. I read a comment that at some point during his 30 minutes of summation time, Warren “stared down the jury one by one.” I only saw one person say that, so having doubts if it’s true.

    MC1199, it’s the jury that wants to here the tapes again.

  117. They are setting up the courtroom for jury to hear the tape, and the clerk to read them a portion of rebeccas mussers testimony, but first the jury is taking a break for LUNCH!!
    the jury is all women except for TWO men,, Im willing to bet its ONE of the men who is holding up everything

  118. What steps can be taken to remove their power to exploit and harm?

    Jerrie said this on August 4, 2011 at 2:31 PM

    I am not sure if you asked this to the whole board or if you were talking to some one specifically.

    But what I would like to see EVERYWHERE is a better home schooling testing, inspection etc.

    I would like to see political leaders following the laws and enforcing the laws. Never do I want to see again someone in postion standing on stage saying, Ahhh heck go ahead we’ll ignore the law.

    People (everyone) needs to be able to count on their local LE and those in position. ( There was a Judge who also practiced polygamy) Another judge gave one guy 3 days.

    I would like to see Churches better monitored. How much land does one church need? imo only the land that the Church itself sits on.

    Open records for all Churches. Open doors for all Churches. If they are tax exempt- the records need to be made public imo.

    No more walls. Visable or otherwise.

  119. %$#@ Did it again, misread the comments! Guess it’s time for an eye exam! Reading tweets is still confusing to me!

  120. From @natecarlisle Nate Carlisle
    San Angelo library has turned into press lounge while waiting for #WarrenJeffs verdict. http://twitpic.com/60xrz9

  121. Did you guys hear what the instructions were to the Jury?

  122. They are setting up the courtroom for jury to hear the tape, and the clerk to read them a portion of rebeccas mussers testimony, but first the jury is taking a break for LUNCH!!
    the jury is all women except for TWO men,, Im willing to bet its ONE of the men who is holding up everything

    ————————————————–

    In my experience, we gals can get by with snacking, but men need their three squares a day.

  123. @mc1199 — Twitter is confusing until you’ve used it a while. I’ve been tweeting since Jan. ’07. (Spoken in my old lady voice, “Back in ought-seven when that Twitter thingy was new …”)

  124. From @natecarlisle Nate Carlisle
    San Angelo library has turned into press lounge while waiting for #WarrenJeffs verdict. http://twitpic.com/60xrz9

    texasconnie said this on August 4, 2011

    🙂 that could be my postcard except I can hardly see anyone. I hope he takes another and they all wave. 🙂

    Next photo- the Texas Rangers and Deputy George

  125. LIFE GOES ON!

    Meetings today in Colorado City, a new version of state resources for schools throughh the library system. Meetings this morning at the Centennial Park MASADA school, another in 15 minutes at El Capitain! Education and knowledge will not give in to Warrenites attempts to suppress knowledge by burning library books!

    More on this meeting tonight!

    Warren can rot in jail and those who followed him should hang their heads in shame! They followed a FALSE PROPHET, the half that will split knows this and it will leak out in time!

    Warren will hold to his belief until he eventually loses his hope and attempts his own suicide again.

  126. I saw a tweet by Ben Winslow that said all the Polygamous Churchs in Utah hope polygamy isn’t crimialized because it will mnake them more insular and isolated,,,, and that their groups dont do stuff like this, LOL
    The churchs were the AUB,, Kingston Group , and the Nielson/Naylor groups

  127. I am a polygamist and I desperately hope that it is legalized so that it will be easier to infiltrate the close-knit communities and ferret out douche bags like Warren Jeffs.

  128. Good thing Barbara Jessop is not alive to hear the tape of her youngest child’s humiliation. That child lost her mother after being the only one left in the custody of CPS after all the others were let out. Remember her crying and asking “why just me?” And then her father is kicked out. Wonder what Betty Jessop is thinking of all this now. Just wondering what is happening at the ranch now and how many have left. And now we kind of get a clearer picture of that white bed in the temple, dont we?

  129. WSJ was probably using the 29.5 minutes of closing silence to pray for jurors individually so they would know they will die quick if they find him guilty. He is after all THE Prophet.

  130. I wouldn’t have a lot of sympathy for Barbara Jessop if she were still alive.

    I would kill a man who tried to have sex with my 12-year-old daughter – she handed hers over like a lamb sent to slaughter.

    As for the rest still left at the ranch, I hope they are not being told this is all THEIR fault because they don’t have enough faith.

  131. From Twitter —
    gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    At 4 pm, jury still holed up. TX Ranger Nick Hanna told us it was the audiotape w/ #Warrenjeffs alleged rape of 12yo that jury requested.

  132. When is his sentencing?

  133. gosanangelo profile

    gosanangelo

    At 4 pm, jury still holed up. TX Ranger Nick Hanna told us it was the audiotape w/ #Warrenjeffs alleged rape of 12yo that jury requested.

  134. After the guilt phase, presuming he is found guilty, the next sentencing phase may take a day or so.

    With over 700 bad acts to review, and probable objections, it may last two days before the final sentence..

  135. The jury might be comparing the phrases they hear on the tapes like “heavenly session” to definitions of terms that Ms. Musser provided in her testimony. Just speculation. Or they wanted to make sure what they heard on the tapes.

  136. I am not sure if you asked this to the whole board or if you were talking to some one specifically.

    walton said this on August 4, 2011 at 3:40 PM

    I am asking the entire board. So many of us are just getting our heads around the enormity of the deceit and control and crimes – but there doesn’t really seem to be a solid goal to work towards.

    I think plenty of people would be willing to get on board behind an effective agenda leading to a solution – if people came together and put one out there.

    This is such a highly organized, manipulative enterprise that is probably going to require an equally organized, focused response.

    How do we ensure all children, everywhere are given the opportunity to choose for themselves whether to live free before they “voluntarily” give up their rights and effectively become slaves to the community into which they were born? We can do a better job of prosecuting the crimes. Do we have the tools we need to adequately detect and stop them when they occur?

    I’m a homeschooling mom. I would have no problem having my kids tested – but I don’t think that is nearly enough. What does it look like to insist laws be enforced? Can that be tracked? Publicized? Can pressure be brought to bear on officials who don’t enforce specific laws at specific times? Is that enough?

  137. got a verdict. not been announced tho

  138. Emily Detoto just sent text to Christi Paul of InSession: WE HAVE A VERDICT.

    And then they cut to commercial!!!!!!!!!

  139. the jury has a verdict

  140. poor trib….behind the times…

    sltrib Salt Lake Tribune
    The #WarrenJeffs jury is returning to the courtroom, unsure of the reason yet.

  141. I saw a tweet by Ben Winslow that said all the Polygamous Churchs in Utah hope polygamy isn’t crimialized because it will mnake them more insular and isolated,,,, and that their groups dont do stuff like this, LOL
    The churchs were the AUB,, Kingston Group , and the Nielson/Naylor groups

    Deputydog1 said this on August 4, 2011 at 3:47 PM

    Seriously? what BS. I think that is the exact same thing that the large group of pot growers said. That they didn’t want to hide and run but they were afraid the LE would come after them because they were growing pot.

    Or the big porn ring that Shurtleff and Co. broke up? They wouldn’t have had to be so secretive if it wasn’t illegal.

    Please.

    One way to avoid the police officer from coming to your door is by not breaking the law in the first place.

    Children are in fear? Easy fix. don’t break the law. Stop the cycle now.

    Listening to the evidence in the Canadian trials proved without a doubt the harms polygamy causes those within and including the rest of society.

    Marriage- one wife – one husband or it can be worded as two people who have joined in union to be married. Not 3 people. Not 4 people. Not 80 people. Two.

  142. guilty on both

  143. Guilty on both county

  144. Guilty on both counts!

  145. Guilty on both counts according to tweets

  146. guilty!!
    hhg

  147. on both counts according to gosanangelo twitter
    hhg

  148. hmmm

    He forgot to pass out Orbit gum to the Jury?

    CLEAN NO MATTER WHAT!?

    OOPS

  149. The penalty phase will start shortly,, and prosection will bring in the 700 bad acts committed by warren jeffs

  150. The 700 bad acts have been sealed in a envelope and could only be brought forward at the punishment phase of this trial

  151. An massive earthquake just hit Illinois.

  152. Fantastic. Kudos to the jury. Medals of courage and excellence to the Rangers and Judge Walther.

    Greg Abbott and Gov Perry – way to stick to your guns.

  153. On Dec 12, 2012, this news will reach YFZ

  154. Connie – or anyone, where is the list of subpoenas the AG sent out. I know I saw it around here somewhere?

  155. Jon Huntsman’s Presidential campaign just imploded

    No, really!

  156. On Dec 12, 2012, this news will reach YFZ

    Stamp, you are just too funny!

  157. Four hours of Mormon scripture as a defense strategy . . . how’d that work out for you Warren?

  158. gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    Video of TX atty gnrl @GregAbbott_TX talking #Warrenjeffs verdict http://yfrog.us/5zd7uz

    —————————–

    It took about 30 minutes to sink in, but I’m crying now. Tears of pure JOY for this verdict and HEARTBREAK for these precious little girls who were so horribly violated — and not just these two, but oh, so many.

  159. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44021900/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/?GT1=43001

    A jury on Thursday convicted polygamist church leader Warren Jeffs of sexually assaulting two girls he had taken as “spiritual wives.”

    The jury returned its verdict after just over three hours of deliberations.

    Jeffs stood stone-faced as the decision was read.

    I am still waiting for InSessions to announce the verdict. someone said this: Emily Detoto just sent text to Christi Paul of InSession: WE HAVE A VERDICT.

    And then they cut to commercial!!!!!!!!!

    She was just on Insessions with Christi Paul talking about not being in the courtroom.

    OOOOPS

    wow!

  160. Oh thank God. And yes, to everyone that played any part, big or small, in getting to this point, you helped move humanity up a branch in the tree of evolution and are ALL heroes. Nothing that has been allowed to get this organized can be torn down in one Court decision, but its a step closer to getting there. It’s brought the crimes into the light where the media and all of us on the “outside” are aware. Evil, monster, criminal behaviour can only last when it’s hidden away – shine a light on it and it’s only a matter of time until its extinguished.

  161. Ding dong the witch is dead!

  162. 8 more child rapes to be in bad acts

  163. EDUCATION!!!! ECUCATION!!! EDUCATION!!! That is the solution. Leaving this community is a lot more than picking up your feet and walking away. It is a highly emotional, individual CHOICE. No one can force it on anyone else. Having been through it, I can tell you that the emotional repercussions are huge. Just the realization of the level of fraud that one has been exposed to in relation to the religious indoctrination is painful. Again, IT’S AN INDIVIDUAL CHOICE. (emphasis intended not yelling)

  164. Well I know there are probably some xflds or now flds who read this site,, so it wont take long to get to the communities of ALL Flds compounds that thier prophet wasn’t who they thought he was

  165. Flora talked to HLN news on the phone, and she was thrilled ,, but has a new concern,,, evidently the safety net committe in Utah, is talking about allowing FLDS families to be FOSTER PARENTS!!! OMG

  166. Are they starting the penalty phase tomorrow?

  167. Thanks Texas, Prosecution, Judge and Jury!

    Old fashioned AMERICA can git’r done!

  168. In a few minutes Third Cousin

  169. Penalty phase has been said to start this eve, will be long enough to last into tomorrow. Perhaps the full sentence by EOD FRI.

    Operative word

    FULL

  170. evidently the safety net committe in Utah, is talking about allowing FLDS families to be FOSTER PARENTS!!! OMG

    Deputydog1 said this on August 4, 2011 at 5:08 PM

    Will they express surprise (but not concern) when it later turns out none of they boys placed with them were a good match, but the little girls loved it so much they want to be adopted in and stay forever?

  171. Flags are flying at half staff in Shortcreek right now!

    Oh wait, they dont have flags out there…

  172. The FLDS in Shortcreek arent fit to foster dogs.

  173. Penalty phase has already begun. Texas Atty Gen on HLN-TV right now.

  174. A song for Warren Jeffs, this is your future boy, yes you will find the Texas Prison farm system to be a most brutal place, welcome to cellosteel kingdom.

    Lordy, Lordy ole Warren’s going to be singing those Texas prison blues.

  175. Anyone want to borrow our Texas Attorney General? Utah? Arizona? Anyone? 😀

  176. Admin please delete duplicate posts, Trying to post this video:

    Couldn’t get it to imbed

  177. Hot damn 🙂

  178. Jeffs will be writing a memoir in Prison:

    “My Big Fat Creeper Weddings”

  179. Yes UT and AZ should totally borrow TX attorney!!!! 🙂 It would be BRILLIANT!!!

  180. Safety net brought up the fostering kids because there are some kids out there that would feel uncomfortable living with other “clan” members.

    You can hear them talking about it via Mark Shurtleff site.

  181. Good thing Warren “is at peace”, he will have the rest of his natural born child molester life to enjoy that peace in prison.

  182. Let me say this now:

    I’m ex-FLDS, but I am telling you that there ARE good people there; good people who have been sucked in to a corrupt and perverted regime. I do NOT wish bad on the good people of Colorado City, but I do hope that the offenders and guilty are brought to light.

    I cannot stress this enough. So many good people that lead good, clean, pure lives. It wasn’t for me, but it wasn’t for me for MY reasons. Polygamy is not the problem here, corrupt religion IS. Some of the best parents I know are polygamists.

    I hurt for those in the FLDS that I know are good and that I love. We should all pray for them.

  183. Anonymous said this on August 4, 2011 at 5:03 PM

    EDUCATION!!!! ECUCATION!!! EDUCATION!!! That is the solution. Leaving this community is a lot more than picking up your feet and walking away. It is a highly emotional, individual CHOICE.

    Anonymous, I agree with you, education, but as others on this Board have asked, what could we (the outside world) have done differently? What steps could we have taken to not allow the “community” to become so insular, where education is dished out as the rulers see fit, where the police are members of that same “community” and the politicians don’t want to rock the boat? How can anyone make an “individual choice” when they’ve been brainwashed that the world is upside down and they don’t even know who THEY are other than a slave to a “leader”? I know many did get away IMO that’s due to intelligence and that unstoppable human spirit. For others though that stay and allow themselves and their children to be abused. As much as it goes against one’s human rights, I don’t see any other way than to forcably remove them from the “cult” and deprogram them like parents did with their teenage/college children who joined the Moonies in the 60’s and 70s.

  184. I believe you anon 5:33.

  185. Anon

    Thats cool, if you read here long, you would know that there are other regular ex-FLDS and there is a recognition there are good people.

    HOWEVER that said, there has to be a revelation time – yeah, they could claim ignorance of the main abuses Warren committed – though underage marriage has never been any secret. Just the blatant depravity he exhibits.

    But really, who could now claim Warren is a Prophet? This conviction just sucks the life out of their faith on so many levels.

    If the good people want to stay good they need to change paths – this guy they have been following just made them fools.

    And thats ok, we all might have leaders or people we trust do this to us. But we need to pick up and move in the right direction.

  186. Hey,

    Charlie Manson and OJ Simpson, we have another celebrity joining you!

  187. How about reading the bible and God’s commandments. That morman book is as good as Warren Jeffs. A wolf in sheeps clothing.

  188. watchingu2 – Dead on! “Good Germans” elected Hitler – but they certainly didn’t elect him to create concentration camps and stamp out Jews.

  189. For what is worth Anon. I don’t believe that all those in the FLDS are bad people. I’ve never been anti-LDS or anti-FLDS. I’ve been against abuse of any sort, I’ve been anti- BS and I have been straight up about how I feel about Polygamy.

    But I also remember what Pliggy and Blues taught me about Perdition.
    And I remember what those kids have said about having everything that you have known all your life to be false.

    Now at this time those in this new pro polygamy group are speaking out how bad the FLDS are and that they are not like them. They came from there imo. And they could have used their voices just as easy to call authorities for help for those kids. Help for those young brides. But they kept their mouths shut for fear of getting caught themselves. Shame on them!!

    There are members that use to belong to the FLDS. For whatever reason they either got kicked or they left on their own. Some of them I have come to really like. So I guess it does bother me when people speak so badly about “the FLDS”. Some of them I know would go right back to it all if allowed. But Warren wasn’t responsible for all the pains.

    It has been evident with the testimonies from so many. Polygamy in itself is abuse.

    And I hope and pray that the laws will stay in place and enforced.

  190. Warren Jeffs, meet Tony Alamo …

    “TEXARKANA, Ark. — Evangelist Tony Alamo used his stature as a self-proclaimed prophet to force underage girls into sham marriages with him, controlling his followers with their fears of eternal suffering.

    But the judge who sentenced Alamo on Friday to 175 years in prison for child sexual abuse warned of another kind of justice awaiting the aging evangelist.

    “Mr. Alamo, one day you will face a higher and a greater judge than me,” U.S. District Judge Harry F. Barnes told the preacher. “May he have mercy on your soul.”

    full story: http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_13780362

  191. These are my wishes for the FLDS:
    That they find out the truth about WJS.
    Take down their fences.
    Let their children have a decent useful education.
    Let the women make their own choices of whom to marry.
    Have only enough wives and children that the fathers could feed and house themselves.
    Live without fear of the big wide world out there 🙂

  192. Texas AG on HLN now.

  193. Yes, Yes, C-M

  194. To the ex and current FLDS members posting here.
    I have never felt that you are “evil”. Good is everywhere. I hope that you will find a way to accept the verdict from “our” world that Jeffs is indeed a hard core child predator. I hope that this will inspire you to ask hard questions and to think about how you can rebuild your lives in a way that make it impossible for anyone under any guise to limit the education and lives of your children. I hope that you embrace education consistent with the secular world of all of your children up to and through college.

    With love, really – I wouldn’t have followed this story as intensely if I had not felt pain on your behalf…
    HHG

  195. This is a watershed moment for not only the FLDS but other groups and governments.

    Its time to grow a clue – if this doesnt do it nothing will.

  196. @gosanangelo:

    State presented punishment notice but judge called recess until 9 a.m. tmrw while #Warrenjeffs consulted w standby atty

  197. wonder how well the media blackout and/or misinformation is going to be handled at this Sunday’s meeting in Short Creek. I’m guessing that they’ll tell everyone the “evil” judge “hardened her heart” and that the FLDS people need to pray harder to soften the hearts of the gentiles to let the “prophet” go. they don’t have a fucking clue.

  198. HHG, ditto here! Well said.

  199. Such bad timing for the huge mcnut. Just when he started his pliggy church – two services under his belt and now this.

    DANG

  200. yeehaaa

    They are human after all, and word will get to them. There will be defensive feelings, but also disgusted feelings.

    This will help it turn the corner – at least for many.

    And what of those 79 wives kept in a lock box for life?

    I pity them, hope they can move on.

  201. I read that the Prosecution will need two days just to line up and arrange the winesses planned for the “Bad Acts” segment. Don’t understand how they didn’t see this ‘Guilty Verdict’ coming into the trains station,”Right On Time”!

  202. Can anyone just drive into Short Creek or is it like a gated community? I wish I lived there in Texas. I would round up everyone I could and we would all go crowd around Short Creek and hand out copies of newspaper articles talking about the evidence that was presented at the pedophile/rapist’s trial so that the FLDS people would see that. (even if only a few saw it before the leaders rounded them up, the word would get around). Why is it that there were crowds of people hanging around for days and days in Florida where the court house was during Casey Anthony trial and “you all” down there in Texas can’t do the same thing at this Short Creek? Just curious, not meant to be critical. I have followed this since the pedophile/rapist first got picked up in Vegas and my heart is so full with love, empathy and hope for the community.

  203. As a a West Texan, I encourage Texas prosecutors to go after everyone in the FLDS that is guilty of perpetrating or aiding sexual assault of minors. That includes parents and bystanders. Prosecutors like near slam dunk convictions. I don’t care is there is not overwhelming evidence and that you might lose a few. Prosecute them anyway. I don’t care that it will cost lost of money. Prosecute them anyway. I don’t care if you take PR hits for “persecuting people because of their religion”. Prosecute them anyway.

    Federal LE and prosecutors. I want to see Mann Act and civil and criminal RICO used. I want you to prosecute those that aided a federal fugitive (Warren Jeffs). I know you will lose some and be accused of “religious persecution”. Prosecute them anyway.

  204. DANG! I got so busy at work, I just got the news! Geee, and no quibbling over the did he or didnt he….3 hrs, including a nice lunch, and the deed is done. I’m waiting to see the list of bad acts.

    yehaaa6: wonder how well the media blackout and/or misinformation is going to be handled at this Sunday’s meeting in Short Creek.

    A good question. Hopefully one of the crick posters will answer that…. I would love to hear what BS is going to be told to cover the fact the their prophet ain’t comin’ back…

  205. It’s 4:25pm in Texas: Do you know where your prophet is?

  206. Elissa Wall on HLN in 30 minutes.

  207. In a perfect world, we would have pitchforks and be standing in SLC in front of SNOW, CHRISTENSEN & MARTINEAU the firm who employs both Max Wheeler & Rodney Parker. Parker a former federal attorney denied that the FLDS were taking underage brides, when he knew they were, per a later letter sent to Mark Shurtleff. He lied and perpetuated the abuse! I say the fed should hound these attorneys under the RICO act and put them in jail! Parker & Scott Berry both were listed as registering agents of many FLDS businesses. They were in it for the money, trading children for a few pieces of silver.

    Let us hound those who facilitated these crimes, who gave Warren power in corrupt Utah courts!

  208. I thought I would feel better than I do when this trial would be over and Warren found guilty. But I feel a sadness really. That so so many people have been hurt, abused, taken advatage of in so many ways and for so very long.

    Don’t get me wrong. I am glad that this part is over. Warren wil be resting in peace where he belongs. And I know it is really really important that things keep moving forward without pause.

    And I really am hoping that more and more people step forward to help in any and every which way they can. But as they said on HLN tonight it is time. It is time for those in the FED office to follow thru, to do their digging, bring about their charges. It is long time past due that those in office step up to carry the burden that Flora, Elissa, Caroline, Kathy Jo, Johnnie Jessop and the many others have done.

    And it is time to say it out loud. It is time for so many people to speak out loud that they expect these folks to do their jobs and enforce the laws.

    And even better show us that they are doing their jobs.

    Texas you have once again made me feel very proud. And with your strength may others follow.

  209. Anon said;
    Can anyone just drive into Short Creek or is it like a gated community?

    Richard Holm does bus tours, we should gather up a group! If Mark Twain Motel is still operating we can stay there. The eatery what is it Merry Wives or Sister Wives? The one where CJ’s use to be.

    There are very friendly people there too, the apostates who for years have wanted a better life.

    If enough are interested, I am sure we could do a gathering, a statement of solidarity and of hope! I bet the press would cover it too!

  210. The EVIL ‘Gentiles’ have taken our prophet and they are persecuting him in a Public Courtroom. The wicked Press Corp are printing lies about our beloved shepherd and claiming he is a pedophile. Everyone needs to send your tithing and pray for our prophets release and repent your sinful ways to aid the prophet and weaken the Evil Satanic Law Enforcement Rangers and Sheriffs grip upon him. Warren sent a,”Warning To The Nation” that has gone ignored by the wicked Presidential Administration & Congress, the ‘EndTime’ is truly elapsing and we have to ready ourselves for the onslaught of the devil’s minions, especially Federal employees like the FBI Agents and other wicked government officials. Prophet Warren prophecied about this ‘test’ and we have to help him in every way, ‘Zions Mission’ mustn’t fail and Bishop Lyle Jeffs and the ‘Templebuilders’ will lead us to Victory and Salvation for we are, ‘The Chosen Elect’.

    Taking them newsprint at Hildale/Colorado City is a complete waste of time.

  211. Ever see the tobacco ads where 50,000 people in front of the RJ Reynolds building fall down, all at once? How about 5-10,000 people decending on Colorado City, followed by SLC and the lawyer officers! An emphasis now on the other groups that have done the same.

    I know the others claim not, but Marry Ann Kingston ring a bell? I have a few names for the AUB and certainly Jim Harmston’s group! Gerald Peterson group was near Modena West of Cedar City, near the Harker ranch another FLDS splinter. Another small group West of gunlock Reservoir. Juab county where Thomas Green got famous has independents scatter about. Blanding & Price Utah! Any rural area of Utah seems to have them. Its not polygamy, but the age and the lack of choice. Try reading PRISON OF THE MIND by Kaziah May Hancock and you will understand more about the Independents!

  212. Jay Beswick said this on August 4, 2011 at 7:15 PM
    If enough are interested, I am sure we could do a gathering, a statement of solidarity and of hope! I bet the press would cover it too!

    From the same anon 6:38 pm – I don’t live anywhere close by but I swear here and now, if there’s people that you know that want to work on making this happen, and you need some cash (for photocopying, gas for the bus, or whatever) I will contribute up to $500 (and, ahem, that’s canadian $ ). Yes, government and politicans need to do something, but, individuals, when they get together, have just as much power as history shows us over and over again.

  213. Getting Senator Harry Reid to bring forward his pending legislation Senate Bill to fund a Federal Task Force with multi-Agency and National investigative capabilities is a good move. The Mann Act or RICO Act are, also, weapons in the Federal arsenal, if needed. Let’s stop with the lip service, Press bites and elected officials that dry their sweaty palms hoping this all blows over soon, don’t want a messy polygamy investigation going on into next year there’s a Presidential 2012 campaign.

  214. Polygamy is most certainly part and parcel of the significant abuse dimension with all these groups. The people “living it” need to stop the fantasy and debauchery,and obey our laws. I think it’s a total disgrace for any woman to have to compete with another for her husband, risk infections, etc. etc. Don’t tell me there’s no jealousy, I will never believe such clap-trap. People that can’t make a proper home for themselves with one spouse, with or without kids, should simply not set up shop with any other “consenting adults” at all. The New Testament says it best, “Let each man have his own wife, and each woman her own husband, to avoid immorality.” There is no greater, more true, or profound and honest directive than that for family foundation. The immorality and deceit that were a great part of Joseph Smith’s life cannot and should not be morphed into sweet little portraits of domestic bliss. Polygamists, you are defying what Jesus Christ Himself taught, ( the Jesus in the real Scriptures- the Bible, not the BOM with its twisted teachings-) and you are defying your nation’s clear laws. So I don’t want to hear that you are “good parents” and “appalled” by the excesses of people like WSJ. Get a life, and encourage your kids to fear God and our laws better than you yourselves are doing, ok? As long as you “live polygamy,” to me you are immoral and rebellious. I know it is that way in many other eyes as well. I will never back down from this position, for women and children will never, ever benefit from such morally compromised ideas.

  215. caJIM your as nutty as Warren. Perverts and Profit are spelled differently. Texas does not stand for perverts. My man is a man of law and we aim to live by the bible here. Get you and your perverts and scram!!! The bible is the first and final say so. Your morman book is pure nonsense and fit for men who like nothing more than to molest innocent kids.

  216. Shortcreek is wide open, but a few houses – like Warrens dads – were like small compounds with tall fences, the new house said built for warren there has a big fence too I hear,

    But other that that its wide open.

  217. Count me in for the Beswick rally.

  218. Salt Lake Tribune says 24 wives under 17…. and Whitehurst tweeted this:

    lwhitehurst Lindsay Whitehurst
    Our story story so far on #WarrenJeffs trial. Think it’s been intense so far? Stay tuned. It’s going up a notch.

    and:

    lwhitehurst Lindsay Whitehurst
    Prosecutors sound ready to lay out the whole of #WarrenJeffs’ 8-year reign over the #FLDS: the excommunications, re-assignments, lost boys

    OH SNAP

  219. Thank you, Rozita 🙂

  220. The San Angelo newspaper Twitter account has a short summary of the bad acts the prosecution intends to introduce. http://twitter.com/gosanangelo

  221. Holy Pearls of Great Cost, Batman!!

    We are going to hear all of Warrens misdeeds!

    This may take a while….

  222. Anonymous said this on August 4, 2011 at 7:29 PM

    To give you some thought, The January 2004 Press Conference for Ross Chatwin was mine. It was called on for a Friday. Ross called me on a Tuesday and I had never met him or knew who he was! We had had several Press Conferences, never one in Colorado City before. I spent Tuesday telling Ross I could not stop it, once the process was started! First he had to tell me he could be trusted. Once I understood whom he was related to, I trusted his relative and began cranking out press releases.

    I invited 30 press agencies and 29 showed up! When Sheenan waffled at providing sheriff deputies, through Buster Johnson I suggested that if one news person was injured, his career as sheriff would be over. In over kill fashion, he sent S.W.A.T. teams out and rifles were every where. News crews from Canada showed up, the BBC from the UK, it was huge and Ross called Warren a type of HITLER!!!!

    HOMELAND Security was in Ross’s home before the event and around the worlld Ross Chatwins shakey voice was heard. The pu7rpose for a 72 hour notice was a meeting Saturday at the Leroy Johnson meeting Hall. It was Ross’s plan, not mine, his party, but I invited his guests.

    Focused on his house, I brought in a documentary crew from Los Angeles to video tape and photiograph the Babyland Graveyard, 62 unmarked child/baby graves (mounds). The Chatwin event took all the glory, allowing the LA crew to move freely through town.

    Making a gatherring depends on whom you invite!

    The March 2005 Polygamy summit in St. George, UT was in part a success when Winston Blackmore from Canada accepted my invitation to attend. Once he committed, the press far and wide confirmed, I got involved in the inviting at the 11th hour, only 2 or 3 days before both AG’s arrived.

    If enough activist chose to attend or the public at large who knows? Allow for carnival in the park with booths and it could be a huge happening!

    To my favorite MOLE, if you are reading this, ask Richard Holms if he is still doing the tours, maybe we can get Wisan’s blessing to reserve some space and make something that is sanctioned??

  223. the polygamy idea is not about religeon yours or anyone elses! And its not just the women and children that are victimized. I’ve read the evidence that’s on this site. The transcripts of WJ’s scribes and I see that the men are victimized just in a different way. They are told to just up and leave their families and they do it! Which I believe is the same for a man (I’m a woman so I’m assuming here) as a woman having to deal with the rape and abuse of their children. IMO this is nothing more than a cult with a leader that wants ultimate power over a bunch of slaves just like the many others that exist. Nothing at all to do with any bible, God or religeon.

  224. Heah Yaya, my 7:18 PM post was followed by a 7:30 PM post, sorry for confusing you but the 7:18 PM post was a mock of FLDS members thoughts, incase you thought I was too loopy maybe I was, Hee,hee.

  225. gosanangelo

    If state succeeds in provding these so-called ‘bad acts,’ it could increase #WarrenJeffs sentence

    —————————

    Warren shoulda woulda coulda plead guilty – doncha think?

    He is going to take the rest of the ship down with him.

    Maybe he will pull a Brian Mitchell and break out the hymn book for a few days.

    FLDS collectively say: LALALALALALALALALALALAL

  226. Whoot whoot! So great to see a little bit of justice.

  227. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/lifestyle/52318726-80/jeffs-religious-thy-stuff.html.csp another link. I’m at the airport… so kind of following this stuff really closely right now.

  228. He is going to take the rest of the ship down with him.
    Maybe he will pull a Brian Mitchell and break out the hymn book for a few days.
    FLDS collectively say: LALALALALALALALALALALAL
    Stamp said this on August 4, 2011 at 8:05 PM

    From youtube here’s Mitchell sounding like Warren, and he really dose sound like him.

  229. Richard isn’t doing tours, the Mark Twain Motel is now office space, and the Merry Wives cafe holds about twenty people.

  230. OK, this is what we are up against in Utah. From the trib, reporting about the audiotape

    “The girl is not heard resisting, and there are no overt references to sex.”

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home2/52328781-183/jeffs-girl-jury-flds.html.csp?page=2

  231. juliekan — there’s the spin, all right

  232. Harry Reid woun’t return a call or an email, he did the plig posturiung for political hype!

    The few gentlemen of integrity were Utah Senator Scott Howell, Utah Senator Ron Allen who authored SB 146 the child bigamy bill. Attorney Doug White of Tapestry. I think Mark Shurtleff has tried, but a political tide against him has slowed his efforts. I regret not working with Mike King, I heard he was hard core, he ran against Shurtleff in 2000 and had Ron Bartons position on investigating closed societies. I think it was Shurtleff, Richards & King in the dead heat for AG in 2000, they were going after Jan Grahm’s post. I started with Jan Grahm, but as a lame duck, she was no help to me.

    I think it was Cecilia Nelson of Governor Hulls office in Arizona who first tried to help from the AZ side. In AZ I relied on Buster Johnson who was as true an arrow straight as any activist I have ever worked with, met him on my 2nd day in and he never faltered EVER! Buster took the fight to Linda Binder a Assemblywood, later State Senator. Binder went to Janet Napolitano. Janet assigned Leesa Morrison of her staff to a 30 day preliminary investigation. Leesa called me on December 3rd of 2000 that recorded call is on YouTube now. Leesa said I would be her SOLE SOURCE of her 30 day investigation, a serious frustration since I had victims. Later undercover AZ Deputy State Attorneys came to my Hurricane UT home and interviewed FLDS Apostates. Little of this was public early on.

    I used a British film crew to film the AG investigators should I one day need to prove they even existed.

    August of 2000 was my trial by fire in to this.

    I met with the St. George UT FBI on my second day in and they said they were uninterested in CHILD BRIDES that is was a County & State issue. They were ONLY interested in GUNS & DRUGS! This led to the 1981 purchase of assault rifles by Louis Barlow and William Black’s “meth” labs. Kind of get what the FBI wants!

    But any politician who wants to say they were involved including Reid better be prepared to have me expose old email request that went on ignored.

  233. Orrin Hatch & the FBI 11 years ago;

    http://www.childbrides.org/excuses_scoop_most_wanted_in_polyg_coverup.html

  234. John McCain in 2001

    http://www.childbrides.org/politics_scoop_Sen_John_McCain_passes_buck_on_polyg.html

  235. Babyland Graveyard look at the photo, YOU DON’T WANT TO KNIOW WHAT THE FBI TOLD US IN 2004;

    http://www.counterpunch.org/mazur03022005.html

  236. Well, Jay are you going to rub old bruises or make new ones? How many elected officials do you think you can piss off with old e-mails and does that do this cause any good?

  237. Our FBI on polygamy!!!!

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0606/S00059.htm

    St. George FBI Special Agent Jeff Goins emailed Beswick indicating there wasn’t enough money involved for the FBI to pursue. In other words, the bottom line for the bureau is profit. Again here’s what Goins had to say to Beswick in his June 29, 2004 email:

    “As a general rule the FBI does not get involved in street level and small time drug cases. The FBI works with DEA, US Customs, and other federal, state, and local agencies in Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force (OCDETF) program. OCDETF cases involve tons of marijuana, or 25 plus pounds of cocaine, heroin, or methamphetamine and a large importation/manufacturing/distribution network.”

    Goins then blew Beswick off saying the office would “no longer accept e-mails” from him. But Beswick is hardly alone in his drug suspicions about Colorado City. There have been many accounts by residents and former residents about drugs on the Utah-Arizona strip.

    Here’s an email from a former Colorado City resident, a son of one of the late “prophets”, regarding strange activities at the airport:

    “From what I’ve heard from Colorado City family and other residents about the airport, and there were many witnesses to some of the events – some speak of low flying bombers dropping things, others talk of them landing.
    About the same time the airport was built, there were rumors of the state deploying 17 police/rangers in the area. I’ve heard accounts of people out exploring in the nearby desert when they are suddenly stopped by military personal and told to leave.

    We have believed for years the military has several secret sites out there. So the bombers are probably more related to the military than to drug dealers. But still, we were all suddenly confused about why the government would put that huge airport there.

  238. 18 months before Warren Jeffs made the FBI’s 10 MOST WANTED LIST;

    FBI agent Jeff Goins in St. George, Utah did respond to Jay Beswick, June 29, 2004, but advised his office would “no longer accept e-mails” from him.
    “Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 1:02 PM
    Subject: Your Previous E-mail Messages
    Mr. Beswick,

    From SCOOP newspaper, author Suzan Mazur

    I tried unsuccessfully last night and today to reach you on the telephone. To my knowledge we have never met or spoken so I do not know what you do/did for a living. I am an FBI agent and as such I investigate allegations of violations of federal laws that are within the jurisdiction of the FBI.

    In over 15 years as a criminal investigator I have spoken with thousands of individuals who wanted to provide information to authorities. I’ll take a few minutes and try to explain how law enforcement agencies work regarding complaints.

    An incomplete e-mail is not a “documented complaint”. We receive forwarded e-mails daily from individuals with partial and incomplete information or incoherent allegations. Simply sending an e-mail does not “document” anything.

    A complaint consists of specific information about a person, suspected illegal activity, names and locations of possible conspirators and witnesses, etc. Without the ability to communicate with a complainant to answer follow up questions these e-mails are simply disregarded. If it is important enough for you to complain it is important enough for you to spend 10 minutes on the phone answering follow-up questions. I will not spend an entire day trading a series of e-mails trying to get a coherent complaint, especially about a matter that is not within the jurisdiction of the FBI.

    As you probably know the FBI does not open an investigation into every complaint we receive. There simply is not enough time or agents to work them. Many factors are a part of the decision to open an investigation. As an FBI agent, some of these factors are:
    – Where the crime occurred
    – Is it a federal crime
    – Is it a crime for which the FBI has investigative authority
    – Amount of the $ loss
    – Availability of witness/victim to testify
    – Reliability of person making the complaint
    – Reliability of victim/witness
    – Has statute of limitation expired (usually 6 years)
    – Availability of documents to prove the violation
    – US Attorney prosecutive [sic] guidelines
    – Is it possible to prove the violation beyond a reasonable doubt
    – Notice that the following factors do not play any role in the FBI’s decision:
    – Prominence of the suspect(s)
    – Who the victim is
    – Religion of suspect/victim/witness
    – Political sensitivity of the issue

    Some of your e-mails contain text from as far back as 2000 and 2001. What you must realize that information provided to one investigator from one agency last month is not automatically forwarded to every investigator of the FBI. Generally, investigators from different agencies only coordinate and share information when they are working a joint case or assigned to the same task force.

    This is often true even when investigators assigned to the same agency but stationed in separate states. We are not omniscient and it is unreasonable for you to assume that I am fully aware of all the information you provided to all of the various agencies over the last seven years.

    Although I appreciate you gathering information and forwarding the information to our office, it is best if victims or witnesses contact the investigators directly. There are several reasons for this.

    The victim has much more information about the crime because it happened to them. Upon questioning by trained investigators the victims often recall things that they didn’t think where important when talking to someone else.

    It shows the victim is indeed a victim and is upset by the incident. If someone does not care enough to report the matter to law enforcement perhaps it wasn’t that big of a deal. We understand that sometimes victims are reluctant to come forward for fear of reprisal but all in all I generally take complaints from victims more seriously than complaints from outsiders or those not witnesses to the crime.

    It is not necessary for civilians to perform the work of law enforcement. Indeed, when civilians put themselves in the place of trained investigators several problems can arise:
    – Physical danger to the civilian
    – Chain of custody problems can lead to evidence being inadmissible
    – Investigation can be tainted by bias/background/baggage of civilian

    If you think something needs to be brought to the attention of law enforcement you should advise law enforcement of the allegation. The best way to for this to be done either in person or over the telephone so intelligent follow-up questions can be asked and answered.

    FBI agents, unlike Sheriffs, Attorneys General, and Police Chiefs, are not elected officials. We do not have to run for office and I do not particularly care if my investigation upsets the voters. All I want to do is put bad people in jail. I spoke with SS this morning and confirmed that he has never played golf with either RF or KS. I strongly resent your implication that I, my partner, or another FBI agent would fail to investigate a valid complaint based on the popularity of the investigation with the general public. Just because you are not happy with the outcome of information you provided to the FBI don’t run around throwing out baseless accusations.

    I graduated from FLETC in 1988 when I worked for IRS Criminal Investigation Division. I graduated from the FBI Academy in 2002 after being hired by the FBI. One of the topics covered by both training programs was complainants and informants. Both IRS and FBI (and indeed most modern law enforcement agencies) agree that information from complainants/informants is a one way street. Law enforcement receives information but does not advise the complainant of the status of the investigation, what steps they are going to take, and the ultimate disposition of the case. Likewise, no law enforcement agency will allow a complainant or informant to direct the investigation or tell the agency what steps to take. Doing so would lead to serious issues at trial.

    This morning I spoke with Gail Gneckow regarding information you provided to her in the past. As she recalls it was 2000 or 2001 when she last had contact with you. She recalls telling you that there was no provable criminal violation and that she was closing the case [emphasis added]. She also recalls you threatening to go to the media because you were not happy with the outcome. At times we are not able to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt (the standard of proof in a criminal trial). At that point we close the case and begin working on other cases that we think you can prove.

    You do not contact every complainant/victim/witness and tell them the case has been closed and the reasons why. It just doesn’t work the way you perhaps expect it to.

    As a general rule the FBI does not get involved in street level and small time drug cases. The FBI works with DEA, US Customs, and other federal, state, and local agencies in Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force (OCDETF) program. OCDETF cases involve tons of marijuana, or 25 plus pounds of cocaine, heroin, or methamphetamine and a large importation/manufacturing/distribution network. If I understand correctly, after reading through four or five e-mail messages, J and CP have some knowledge or participated in the manufacture of drugs (possibly meth??) with WB in Hildale. The various e-mails indicate someone in law enforcement will be/has been notified of the allegation. As I understand it you are forwarding these e-mails to me in order for me to make sure the allegation is followed up but do not state who and which agency has already been notified and might be investigating the issue.

    One e-mail message from RB to you lists the telephone number of the DEA agent in Salt Lake City and asks that you call the DEA agent. If you have not already spoken with him I suggest you contact DEA in St. George or the Washington County Drug Task Force at 435-xxx-xxxx and provide them with the complete story of the drugs.

    It appears that you have already forwarded this matter to the attention of the Arizona AG’s office and from them to the EPA. Is there anything further you need or desire from the FBI regarding this allegation?

    Some of the e-mails you forwarded to me include messages to/from the following individuals: KK, CT, CM, and CV. Are these people victims, witnesses, investigators from other agencies? Each statement you make may bring up half a dozen follow-up questions that I’d like to ask. Your answers to each of those questions could lead to even more questions and the cycle continues. Are you starting to see how difficult it is to get a complete picture of the allegation if the only communication is via e-mail?

    Several portions of your e-mails are lost on me. These are examples of things that could have been cleared up on the phone if you were available.

    In about a decade 14 children have been run over and killed in Hildale/CC and your County Coroner can back that up. While it is indeed sad that children are killed in automobile/ATV accidents, this problem is not unique to Utah and I fail to see a violation of any state or federal criminal laws based on this limited information.

    Diversion to photograph not only the unmarked graves but all of them. What is your allegation concerning unmarked graves. Do you think the person buried there was murdered? If so, what leads you to this conclusion? Is there a specific statue regarding a grave marker that states it must have the decedent’s name, DOB, and DOD on it? I’m not sure what an unmarked grave has to do with anything. I’ve seen a DVD of the graveyards in that area. The person that sent in the DVD requested law enforcement to exhume all of the bodies in the grave yards. That person must have been watching too much CSI because they never cited one fact, suspect, or justification for such an intrusive act.

    In order to exhume the bodies law enforcement would either have to get the consent of the decedent’s family or a judge to sign a court order. No judge would ever allow us to exhume a body “just because”, there has to be specific, articulable facts that lead the judge to believe that an examination of the body will lead to the discovery of evidence of a crime. If you have further information on this aspect of the graves please call and fill me in because the person that submitted the DVD has no knowledge of the legal requirements of what they requested.

    I saw a TV movie just last month where the FBI claimed the Mann-Act was a serious concern and yet, 45 minutes away little girls are moved back and forth between Arizona and Utah, now Texas! Sometimes to Creston BC Canada, now also to Benjamin Hill Mexico. TV movies are usually not the best way to learn about the investigative priorities and techniques of the FBI.

    All I know of you personally is your finger printing of BC way back. I contacted C after an individual contacted our office and stated that someone fitting the description of Whitey Bulger, one of the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted Fugitives, was at the Washington County library. I did not disrupt the meeting and waited until it was over before approaching C. From my point of view in the back of the room C did match the physical description of Bulger. Upon contacting C at the end of the meeting I verified that his fingerprints did not match those of Bulger and he was free to go. End of story. Total contact time with C was ~ 15 minutes.

    Taking a complaint via the telephone or face-to-face is much more effective and efficient than taking a complaint via e-mail. Without the ability to talk with you and ask follow up questions, your allegations will not be processed. I will not spend an entire day trading a series of e-mails trying to get a complete, coherent complaint.

    The FBI is always willing to listen to allegations of violation of federal law. If you ever have information regarding a matter that is within the investigative purview of the FBI please contact me at 435-xxx-xxxx (I’ll even accept collect calls if you are out of state).

    If the matter is not something within the FBI’s jurisdiction I’ll be happy to provide you with the contact number for the department/agency that handles that particular criminal violation. This office will no longer accept e-mails from you. If it is important enough for you to file a complaint, it is important enough for you to spend a few minutes on the phone answering follow-up questions. As stated in my earlier e-mail I am disregarding the previous 20 e-mails from you due to the incomplete nature of their content.

    I look forward to hearing from you in the future.
    SA Jeff Goins
    FBI – St. George, UT
    435-xxx-xxxx”

    [Please note: most proper names have been removed from the above email.]
    Jay Beswick says he elected not to ring Special Agent Goins by telephone as following his experience with Gail Gneckow he believed it necessary to maintain a paper trail of all his dealings with the FBI.

  239. Well, Jay are you going to rub old bruises or make new ones? How many elected officials do you think you can piss off with old e-mails and does that do this cause any good?

    caJIM said this on August 4, 2011 at 8:32 PM

    YES!!!

    I have a list of 300 groups that have formed and faded, about 30-40 still surviving. My concern go to cases like Leah Sliwinski who was married to her step dad at age 13, her sister at 14. The FLDS are a tip of a very large iceberg. Do we stop with the FLDS or look at protecting ALL children.

    I know how hard it was to keep the FLDS on a front burner. Politicians want to put this to bed and forget that others exsist. When I entered this it was the FLDS only, since it involves 7 states & 3 countries. While most here are ready to rest, I was the tri state rep and I had other groups on my radar.

    Nothing is happening with these other groups!

  240. Jay Beswick – from anon 7:29
    I remember that as our CBC reported it and they also did an in depth interview with WB around that same time at Bountiful. WB let reporters walk around the compound and they interviewed some of the woman. As a British Columbia (BC) resident, Bountiful has always disturbed me and I took part in some letter writing campaigns to our government. As you probably already know, in BC this has turned into a judicial hearing (not litigtion but about the courts making a judement on whether our Constitution should allow polygamy as a person’s right). Who knows how long that will take and even so, its a far more “gentler” approach then litigating anyone for pedophilia or rape. Having social workers go in and talk to the children, etc etc. I know you and others have done so much on this issue. I guess, at the end of the day, I feel that the momentum is here now with the WJ trial and whatever it takes, people need to do whatever they can to keep that momentum going in the press. I said this earlier today on this board, but again, i truly believe that evil, criminal acts against people can only survive when hidden away. Whatever it takes to keep the light shining on this is what I’d like to be a part of in anyway I can. WJ may go to jail for life but its just one step and my fear is the media will move on with their short attention span as soon as the next “sensational” story comes along. I don’t know about the States, but here in Canada, HLN is the only channel reporting on this in any depth. I want to help in anyway I can and I’d be willing to bet so do millions of other north americans. It boggles my mind how in the year 2011 our lawmakers, police or even the people that “live next door”, have allowed this criminal perversion to continue. Sorry for being so long winded but I guess I’m both elated by today’s court proceedings and frustrated about what we should do next.

  241. Who are the next 4 waiting for trials?

  242. @CAJim, the prosecution said it would take 2 days during the punishment phase to put on all their evidence. They were ready to go at 5:00 today. Warren was dragging his feet saying he didn’t understand the “Bad Acts”.

  243. @Anon 6:38, Short Creek is in Utah/Arizona. It is a place you can just drive around in although you might be leading a parade by the time it is all said and done. The YFZ Ranch is a gated community that you can drive by, but not go onto the ranch.

  244. Today was priceless. Lyle came in for the closing arguments and when he tried to leave he was told to return to his seat. Once the Charge to the Jury is begun, the courtroom is closed, no going in or out.

    Also, I had a chat with Willie today. He said that he met Medvecky 1 time when he showed up at a picnic that he and his family were on. I asked him to please set Bill straight on the fact that Merrianne was raped by Warren. Willie sat in the courtroom and listed to the tape of the rape.

  245. The thing about YFZ as mentioned, it has a locked gate and high fenced as it was once a hunting ranch, also has a guard tower to moniter the inmates errr inhabitants.

    Its no less than a Kiddie Sex Kommune, and its tragic the 465 children were forced to go back, esp in light of all the molestation that was forced on them by parents and Church leaders.

  246. yaya – Wendell is supposed to be up August 22, but he’s got a non-FLDS doctor’s note on file saying he’s ill. Merril’s trial is supposed to begin on Halloween and then Leroy Johnson Steed on the Tuesday after Thanksgiving. The 12th Dr. Lloyd Barlow is in County Court.

  247. Thanks WTWatcher, I was surprised that they needed to days but to present makes obvious sense.

  248. ill bill also toured Bryce Canyon with FLDS guides as well, a whole pickemup truck full of them. As I recall Willie was there too.

    I think all the online pics became FBI toast though, ill bill seems to have a hard time running a website.

    BTW noticed a new pic on the header of this thread, it includes a snap of Lyle hauling in a box of BOM’s or other evidence into court that Warren needed for his defense.

  249. Anon 9:56 PM said
    Today was priceless, Lyle came in for the closing arguments and when he tried to leave he was told to return to his seat……….

    Thanks for sending this Anon 9:56.

  250. Anon

    dont forget Warren has yet ANOTHER Texas trial in OCT for bigamy, he better start gettin ready, this was a good trial run, its all he had on his mind..

  251. From @Katy_Vine on Texas Monthly:

    So now we move on to the penalty phase. The prosecution wants to discuss Warren Jeffs’ own 78 illegal marriages (24 of which involved underage girls), 67 marriages he performed involving underage girls and other men, five hundred bigamous marriages he facilitated and encouraged, six instances of “illegal sexual conduct” involving individuals, more than sixty instances of breaking up three hundred families, expelling young men, and conduct that reveals contempt for “the laws of men.”

    In other words: it’s all coming out. Finally.

    Full article: http://www.texasmonthly.com/2011-08-01/webextra6.php

  252. I wonder if they won’t do a continuance on that one. Now that he’s a prisoner of Texas as a CONVICTED FELON, there’s no rush.

  253. Stamp –

    Well THERES something right there. They can build a guard tower? Where I live there are property zoning and something we BC’rs call an “official community plan”. It would be impossible for a property owner to build a “guard tower” except maybe in the most remotest parts of BC, without gettng approval by the local government (city hall)- building permit, etc. There would then at least be something to get them on, a reason to check them out instead of all this “religeous persecution” BS. I have read that one of the reasons the cult (I’m not going to legitimize the “corporation” by even saying its name) picked where they bought property was because of the lack of property zoning regulations. But Bountiful exists quite well thank you very much even with our zoning. They just don’t build guard towers. They fly under the radar and employ a whole town of people who pay their taxes and behave themselves. They still manage to smuggle women and 12 year old children over the border and kick their young men out to the curb though.

  254. The Thomas Sliwinski Case

    I met Leah’s mother Brenda in Southern Utah, learning about yet another case of child abuse related to polygamy. One of Leah’s sisters married an FLDS apostate. The groups attract members from many of those who are independent. One case leeds to another and another! Leah and her sister were 13 & 14.

    ___

    So, at the age of 13, Leah became Sliwinski’s “spiritual wife” following a prayer ceremony in which the couple asked God to accept their marriage. Leah signed a document drafted by Sliwinski pledging that she would be his wife for all eternity.

    “It was very serious,” she said of the May 1991 ceremony. “It was like a piece of paper from God. By signing it, I would become something in the Kingdom of God.”

    Leah describes the moment she signed her name on Sliwinski’s contract as being similar to the scene in Disney’s “Little Mermaid” when Ariel agrees to forfeit her soul to the Sea Witch if she fails to win her prince’s love.

    Whether it was a win or loss for Leah, she experienced sexual intercourse with Sliwinski for the first time following the prayer ceremony.

    “I was scared,” Leah said, adding that Sliwinski pre-recorded a tape of the Righteous Brothers’ “Unchained Melody” which he played repeatedly throughout their first encounter. “I was 13, tiny, and he was so big, about 250 or 300 pounds. And the fact he was my father made it even more scary.”

    By October, she was pregnant with her first child – a fact she hid from her mother for a couple months because Sliwinski told her that her mother “wouldn’t understand.”

    However, by December, Leah had accidentally revealed her pregnancy to her mother and Sliwinski decided he should make their marriage legal in the eyes of the law prior to the birth of the child.

    According to court documents, while Brenda and Sliwinski were married in Virginia in June 1988, the marriage was nullified because Sliwinski’s divorce from his previous wife was not complete at the time the ceremony took place.

    With Brenda’s consent, Leah and Sliwinski said their vows before a justice of the peace, binding their union in the courts.

    Today, a conflicted Leah juggles her love for her mother with her confusion over how the woman who gave birth to her, her protector, could have allowed her child to marry Sliwinski under such circumstances.

    THOMAS FLED TO MEXICO WITH FLDS CO-HORT WILLIAM BLACK.

  255. Just have to give another thanks to Flora Jessop, Honey you are my HERO. Tonight on Dr. Drew she brought me to tears. She verbalized on national TV something that I have been feeling for over 35 years. As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse/incest, every time a counselor, friend, family member, clergy would say to me that I had to forgive my father for the abuse as “part of the healing process” I felt like screaming and just wanted to slap them upside the head. As Flora said tonight, take note all mental health professionals out there, EVERY TIME YOU TELL A VICTIM THEY HAVE TO FORGIVE THEIR ABUSER YOU ARE TELLING THE VICTIM THEY HOLD SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE ABUSE. Hell no I don’t have to forgive my abuser to heal!

  256. I’ve waited for this day for several years now! I am happy smiling from ear to ear my face hurts 🙂 Thanks to all those on this board who support the victims and myself. I’ve watch you all from a distance for sometime now and I’m very pleased. With some luck a victim or two may come forward.

  257. BeenThereDoneThat said this on August 4, 2011 at 11:20 PM

    blessings to you

    Wemakethingshappen said this on August 4, 2011 at 11:35 PM

    and to you too 🙂

  258. juliekan did you see it all? All those people helping people? Grammybear would be proud.

  259. hey

    i send greetings from all your poster friends. they all asked about you today. what a great day, and yes grammy would be sooooo proud. i did just sit here and cry when the verdict came in. it’s been a long road to getting this much information out. i hope it doesn’t fade away.

  260. Thank you Juliekan, a person that has been a victim and survivor of childhood sexual abuse can never forget it, it shapes who they become. They and either use it as an “excuse” for every bad thing that happens in their life or they can make it a strength of who they are and use this experience to work towards trying to make sure it does not go buried and unpunished for others. What critics of Flora have always tried to do is belittle the very amazing work she has ended up doing by always trying to point the troubles she had when she first left the cult and was struggling to find her way in the world. Flora may not always be “politically” correct but she has turned her life work into helping others and to try and make sure others do not have to suffer the abuse she did. What people need to realize is that although Flora may not be the “smoothest” talker she has more than earned her angel wings. She was strong enough to turn her life around and make it her life mission to help others that are in the same situation she was forced to life through. As I said Flora Jessop is my hero and one day it will be known that she is the hero of many children in the past and in the future to come. Beautiful Lady never give up, never let them beat you down and never let them shut you up!

  261. hey

    i send greetings from all your poster friends. they all asked about you today. what a great day, and yes grammy would be sooooo proud. i did just sit here and cry when the verdict came in. it’s been a long road to getting this much information out. i hope it doesn’t fade away.

    juliekan said this on August 5, 2011 at 12:25 AM

    A story within a story. 🙂

    It indeed has been a long road. They say the hardest part is ripping off that band-aid. Not counting the bad acts, from what I can see there is still much more that will come out. Lots more. And I am almost positive that this will NOT fade away.

    There are so many more people that are aware. And I really got the feeling that they all truly care enough to keep this on their mind as we all have.

    Please give my best to my poster friends. I am in a position that I can’t really e-mail nor call. But I have at my side a box of thank you notes I would love to write out.

    I think I’ve shed tears each time I’ve seen someone on tv share the fact that they have seen what I have seen. Many times over the last few days I’ve caught my self from jumping out of my chair excited that someone said someting out loud.

    I wish I would have taken the time to learn how to run the stupid dvd player so I could have recorded everything. I know I had to have missed some things. But I am really very grateful to have seen the coverage that I did get to see. If anyone puts all this together on disc. I would love to get my hands on it.

    Thank you juliekan

  262. Beentheredonethat said this: ” make it a strength of who they are and use this experience to work towards trying to make sure it does not go buried and unpunished for others.”

    I thought of this song when I read your words. I hope you keep speaking out and sharing. Hugs to you.

    Anythings possible by Johnny Lang

    Don’t let them tell you,
    You can’t be anything you wanna be

    Because anything’s possible if you just believe
    Never give up!

  263. The Principal Rights Coalition (PRC) the representative faction of Mormon orthodox religions, including the AUB and Kingston Group, have made a press release denouncing Warren S. Jeffs as a now convicted sex offender and decry his use of the “Book of Mormon”, “Doctrines and Covenants”, “Pearl of Great Price” and the “King James Bible” as scriptures he rests upon in defending his felonious actions. The LDS Church has not yet made any staement condemning Warren Jeffs but this PRC press releases complicates any statement they may wish to make. The PRC and the LDS Church are not in agreement over scriptural matters and Warren Jeffs conviction serves to just underscore their mutual apostacies of one another.

  264. Sorry, typo above should read,”Principle Rights Coaltion” vs. “Principal”.

  265. As y’all know, ALL the children were given SANE exams in Captivity INCLUDING BOTH girls. Are we surprised that the Doctor who gave Veda her exam testified, and that Merrianne’s Doctor was no where to be seen? Not in the slightest. Veda’s Doctor helped to prove Veda gave birth to a child. On the other hand, Merrianne’s Nurse (R.N.) proved that Merrianne was still intact in April, 2008.

    Now I KNOW you boys ain’t too bright, but if the Medical Records PROVE she was a virgin in 2008, your fantasies are nothing more than wasted seed spilled onto the ground.

    Now I know you are too bright Bill M, but you are the one with fantasies. Warren raped Merrianne, the evidence was presented in the Courtroom, heard by the jury and gallery and he was found guilty of having raped her. The man didn’t even try to defend himself and offer another possible scenario for the taped event. As of now, with the public outrage out there, I’ll be surprised if Naomie Jessop and Millie Jessop don’t find themselves in a heap of trouble for participating in the event. Apparently Brenda Lei was there too, but she was a minor and herself been through the ritual in 2005. If she hadn’t then she wouldn’t have been part of the Quorum.

  266. PT, if we here are at fault as BillM claims of persecuting the FLDS Church then how can he explain the ‘Principle Rights Coalition’ (PRC) disavowal of Warren’s attempt to defend himself using the scriptures, including the BOM, is this fundamentalist group gulty of persecution, as well?

    They disavow Warren’s claim that he has scriptural basis to defend his criminal actions, so these Kingston and AUB church’s side with the view that this is a criminal conviction of a sexual pedophile and not a religious ‘persecution’.

    Of course, BillM has total command of all facts and claims the evidence is tainted but the PRC has denounced BillM’s chosen prophet as a common sex offender. Sorry, BillM but this time even the other fundies agree that Warren S. Jeffs is a pervert and pedophile.

  267. Wonder what BillM thinks of Willie his friend .
    Saw him on TV and he was furious at Warren’s deceit.
    Never thought that would happen, so there might be hope for him, Celia, April and the other excuse makers 🙂

  268. I am rather sure that when the smart people who wrote that we in the USA should have freedom of religion, did not mean that included breaking the laws of the land or molesting little girls.
    This should be a warning to all the other pedophiles out there who hide under the guise of religion.
    Time for the other States to step up or they will be looked at being the heavens for other smut.

  269. Gosanangelo reporting standby counsel WILL represent during punishment phase.

  270. Tap…tap…blow,,,,is this thing on.?…testing 123…..Standby counsel WILL be representing Jeffs during punishment phase…..testing 1 2 3

  271. GoSanAngelo.com
    gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    BREAKING: It appears #Warrenjeffs standby counsel will represent him during punishment phase of trial. Stay tuned!
    52 minutes ago

    natecarlisle Nate Carlisle
    Judge to remove #WarrenJeffs from courtroom, appointed his standby attorney to represent him for rest of sentencing phase.
    49 minutes ago

  272. I feel like I’m in that Arby’s commercial where everyone knew about the big sale but me….Hello? I think attys. during the punishment phase is bit of a big deal, personally. I mean, the state is now facing an actual opponent making real objections ‘an stuff to their evidence…..Anybody just wanna give a tip or link anonymously as to where ya’ll be?

  273. https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2011/08/04/punishment-for-warren-steed-jeffs/

    try asking here

  274. Ooops! d’oh! Refreshing the same page can be parlous! slinks away w/head hanging low…..

  275. To those who have asked “How can we help eliminate FLDS travesties” etc. . . . If they are trying to “bleed the beast” by generating hundreds of single mothers who aren’t legally married to these guys, why should our government not “bleed the FLDS” by cutting them off of welfare? After all, this is what they live on, or rather what Warren Jeffs lives on while all his people turn over their welfare checks to him. If it can be shown, or proved that women of the FLDS are only “spiritually” married to their “husbands”, then consider them “married” and therefore ineligible for welfare as single mothers. Let their “spiritual” husbands care for these women. Soon there would be no incentive. They MUST be cut off from fraudulently receiving welfare! It’s simple: They say they’re “married.” So they’re not single mothers. OK. That being said, they don’t qualify. Let’s just let them fend for themselves. Do you think they would have mountains of kids if they had to care for them all by themselves? Sure I realize kids and women will suffer, at first. But maybe only for a little while. They would have to quickly learn how to take care of themselves, which means going out into the community or beyond the commuity and attaining some sort of education or job. That would work towards opening their eyes as to what they have lost by conforming to this slavery. Our laws MUST be changed to NOT accomodate polygamists with welfare checks. Senators, are you listening? We demand a change!

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