The Trial You’ve All Been Waiting For – Warren Jeffs

This will be the place updates to the trial will be posted along with links to pertinent information. Please keep other discussions in the General Discussion thread.

Warren Jeffs

Photo credit for Warren’s PerpWalk: Matt Waller

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on July 21, 2011.

505 Responses to “The Trial You’ve All Been Waiting For – Warren Jeffs”

  1. Court documents related to the amended motion for rehearing on recusal filed on behalf of Warren Jeffs

  2. The list of attorneys, in no particular order:
    Carla Perron
    Reagan Wynn
    Robert Udashan
    Deric Walpole
    Gary Udashan
    Jeffrey Kearney
    Emily Munoz Detoto

  3. The State of Texas has subpoenaed the wives of Warren Jeffs

  4. The Warren Jeffs’ expert witness list for the upcoming trial

    Please note Ken Driggs. Google him for more information.

  5. Thank you so much for doing this FLDS Texas Admin.

  6. I believe yesterday’s court session is being continued today?

    We still need to hear the outcome of the motion for change of venue. I wonder which of all those attorneys gets that job.

  7. Holy Moly.They subpoenaed all of Jeffs wives??? that ought to be fun finding them…. Maybe they can get court orders to find all the houses of hiding. Driggs may defend Polygamy but not the rape of a 12 year old.

  8. Warren is getting in lots of perpwalk practice!

    The fresh air will do him good.

  9. And yeah, that list of wives – wow – now they are competing with a massive stable of attorneys

  10. Matthew reports the show will go on starting the 25th, but didnt mention how many attorneys would be assisting him.

    He did note they wanted to bury Walther with more motions though.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/21/jeffs-trial-scheduled-to-begin-monday/?comments_id=224868

  11. No attorneys were released today. All but 1 showed up. Emily Detoto was a no show.

  12. I just sent an email to Nancy Grace via her CNN page asking if she was going to be covering the trial – I sucked up by praising her for being a fierce advocate for women and children.

    Now that Casey Anthony is out of the picture, it would be great if Ms Grace could aim her considerable sense of outrage at Warren and his cronies.

  13. But wait! Detoto was quoted as saying she was in this for the long haul!

    Hmmmph, just like Warren, love em and leave em in a house of hiding.

  14. The Witness List and 1st Supplemental Witness Lists are sealed. Also sealed is the Exhibit List. There is no indication as to whether or not they will be unsealed any time soon.

  15. Perpwalk video and report on motion denied

  16. Perp Walks are so much fun to watch.

  17. A flashback article by Mike Watkiss, this before Warren was arrested and given all those fun perpwalks!

  18. Holy Moly.They subpoenaed all of Jeffs wives??? that ought to be fun finding them…. Maybe they can get court orders to find all the houses of hiding. Driggs may defend Polygamy but not the rape of a 12 year old.

    C-M said this on July 21, 2011 at 9:58 AM

    That wasn’t all of Warren’s wives…… only about 78 of them, and yes, they are going to be hard to find, especially the children he molested.

  19. Anon@5:20, that’s really all that he has. The rest are just an UrbanLegend.

  20. Thanks for adding the perpwalk picture. I love the tail….I can’t quite decide if it makes him look like Pluto or the devil…either way it’s funny.

  21. I like the collage of “Warrant’s Worried Warriors” well paid today but careers ruined by next month. When the radioactive FLDS Church evidence is presented, the howls are rent out of the Press and the Public outrage is fully voiced somehow the counselors will grasp they made a huge error in judgment to have ever become associated with this perverted prophet and pedophile at trial. Who’s gonna stand on the Tom Green Courtsteps now trying to explain away the evidence?

  22. Oops, looks like more trouble in Pringle.

    http://www.custercountynews.com/cms/news/news/story-255369.html

  23. Warren is getting in lots of perpwalk practice!

    The fresh air will do him good.

    Stamp said this on July 21, 2011 at 11:25 AM

    I found humor in seeing the crock of s**t pedophile profit taking his perpwalk in brown crocks. Oh, the irony of it all.

    And I am glad that rnr pointed out Warren’s tail; I had missed that little detail before.

    Now that I inspected it further, I would guess it’s more the tail of the devil than Pluto because I think I can see the pointed end.

    Fitting!

  24. At least Warren changed his outfit, somewhat, yesterday; he wore his jail-issued sweatshirt underneath his jail-issued orange jumpsuit.

    Quite a new fashion statement! Love the crocks Warren. I bet they make the perpwalk feel like walking on air. See ya next week, darling!

  25. Witness List # 3 for the State of Texas in the Trial of Warren Jeffs :

  26. Federal Search Warrant for the Red Cadillac :

  27. The original indictments for Warren Jeffs

  28. The original indictments for Warren Jeffs :

  29. BIB, as always, I am profoundly in awe of your energy and devotion of personal resources to locating and providing documents

  30. The Federal Search Warrant for the Caddy along with the 2009 and Judge Shumate’s Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law will play a role in the Motion to Suppress hearing that will happen next week.

  31. I just read Stephanie Goodman’s affidavit which was attached to Detoto’s Amended Motion for Rehearing . . .

    She claims that the Prosecution and Judge must have had exparte conversations because several times Eric Nichols said “I think you know where I am going with this”. Usually it was an objection to save the defense from themselves. After the jury had left the room he would go on to explain that if the defense continued on the path they were on, it would open the door to more information.

    One time this happened was in Allen Keate’s trial. He asked the Ranger on the stand about guns found at the ranch and that allowed in all the evidence about the Sea container full of guns that was found.

    Eric Nichols is a very good prosecutor, but will go through the door when it is opened by the defense. He has a very good grasp on what evidence he has available to use if doors that were meant to remain closed were suddenly open by the defense.

    Stephanie Goodman, in my opinion, sucked as defense counsel for both Abram Jeffs and Keith Dutson, Jr. She thought that by producing tears she could make the jury feel sorry for her clients. That’s not defending. Her co-counsel, Brandon Hudson did everything in his power to piss Judge Walther off. I was amazed that the Judge was able to stay so calm. When the incident happened about Becky Musser, I wanted to throttle Stephanie myself. I didn’t hear people asking her why she was getting a divorce. Becky’s divorce had then and still has no bearing on her life in the FLDS. It is a private matter between her and her husband.

    Stephanie should just STFU!!!

  32. So how much do you estimate that this little extravaganza is costing Warren’s sheeple? I mean you have 7 attorneys, private planes to fly them around, hotel rooms, meals, drinks?

  33. That last post about how much is it costing the sheeple is from me, Proud Texan. I’m not sure why my name didn’t show up.

  34. I’ve been reading off and on while traveling this summer. I’ve posted here a little over the last 6 months.

    Everyone I talk to about Jeff’s case and give them the details – just whats in the media – is completely horrified.

    I’ve got liberal friends. Many of us lead a poly lifestyle when it comes to ADULT relationships. I try very hard to not judge people who are different than I.

    I started reading this blog when it appeared out of curiosity. I’m appalled at how wrong and perverted certain members of the FLDS are. This is not how I live my life, this is not how multiple partnerships should be.

    I try not to wish evil on my fellow human beings. I would like people to make their own choices regarding multiple relationships. I do not feel that way about Jeffs. He needs to be punished. Many people in the FLDS need to be punished.

    If Jeff’s case leads to criminalizing poly relationships – than so be it. This needs to end now before more people are damaged.

  35. Observing, I admire and respect your honesty.

  36. Link to Warrens temple bed – the one Willie claimed was for the “Gardener”

    This will probably come up in the trial

    https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/09/17/warren-build-me-a-bed/

  37. Finally after years of waiting!! Warren is going to Trial in Texas 🙂

  38. Anyone from Texas going to the courthouse today ?

  39. Wished I could BIB…but…a long distance from me…

  40. RICO, The Third floor bed is a real mystery and the explanation of it’s presence and purposes will be very revealing. In fairness Willie “Thug” mentioned the bed which is/was on the ground floor, so I think there is a point of confusion on which bed or beds. My guess is that Willie being a Priesthood Melchizedek would not reveal or discuss anything about the Third floor bed or otherwise.

    “Answer Them Nothing” will soon be stress tested and I think ‘Warrant’ will remain the Courthouse mouse, got to love those crocks he’s wearing, so appropriate,”SQUEEK, Squeak, squeek”.

  41. He could discuss it now!!!

  42. Apparently Deric filed a Motion for Continuance which was denied. Judge Walther said that if he would allow his previous attorneys to help the new attorney could get up to speed faster.

  43. Over on the trib apologists keep saying Warren kept his crimes secret from his own people

    I know they are gullible people sometimes but they arent STUPID

  44. So when your 12 yo daughter is no longer living under your roof you don’t ask what happened to her?? Are they saying they are not being told she is going to be married to the 50 yo pedophile prophet? What were they told? Stupid is not the word for it.

  45. That’s what they want people to believe though

  46. The YFZ Raunch open house held by the FLDS Church and their followers stated that minor marriages, ‘Child Brides’, pregnancies and babies were not known to have existed nor happened at the enclave. Seven pleas and guilty felony convictions say otherwise.

    Speaking of the Warrenite apologists it is truly amazing to me how silent these apologists have become of late. Their website/blogs are frozen with no recent postings, they seem to have lost their fervency and the facts, evidence and truth are about to be unleashed and they’re silence is reminiscent of Mark Twains old lampoon,”Better to have someone think you’re a fool, than make a comment and remove all doubt”. Over the past months and months of debating I think it has become clear that tha main issues concerning the FLDS Church fanatics are not US Costitutional based but rather their zealotry to live and staunchly support their Theocracy and Prophet’s outlaw lifestyle. Zealtry that ignores, challenges and breaks the existing legal governance can not be justified, ignored nor condoned under any false pretext.

    “Answer Them Nothing” is Warren Steed Jeffs civics lesson for his devoted followers and sedition is his claim and not patriotism.

  47. If a parent allows their 12 yo to be raped by a pedophile then they are just as guilty. If they allow their 12 yo to leave home without knowing what will happen to her then they are guilty of neglect.

  48. I believe the father of the 12-year-old bride conducted the marriage ceremony.

  49. It’s a coveted honor in flds to “marry” and have kids with whoever “prophet” happens to be. Infant girls are inculcated witrh the notion from day one. Women who were once flds have reported thinking they wanted to get to marry the prophet when they were young girls, while within the constant flds mental conditioning environment. Early marriage is hoped and prayed for, and former flds women have reported being jealous of sisters and friends who “married” before they did.

    There are really just two pillars, perhaps three, for this “religion.” Prophet worship and polygamy, with underage marriage intertwined via heavy daily conditioning, thoroughly, from the cradle. So it’s prophet worship, marriage, and childbirth that make up this cult’s tenets. If they ever issue statements saying they will change any of that, it would be foolish to put any stock in what they say. They are ingrained with an obsession regarding “marriage” and reproduction, and abject “prophet” obedience. It’s almost the entire thought process daily for the “worthiest” females, as I see it.

  50. So just jury selection begins today? That could take weeks!

    Looks like I’m still playing the waiting game.

  51. I am ready to start seeing these parents charged with child endangerment or accomplice to rape. I call BS on Warren kept his crimes a secret. You can’t rape that many little girls without everyone knowing. Regardless if they want to follow US laws or their “One man rule” law; subjecting your children to this is a crime against nature. They have all truly lost their minds and their own natural instincts to protect their young.

  52. Knock, knock

    Whose there?

    Warren

    Warren who?

    You’re on jury duty.

  53. Keep sweet, Warren!

  54. Did anyone else see Flora Jessop on national TV this morning? (CBS) She called for the prosecution of the FLDS mothers for handing over their daughters to “these guys.” (that’s what she kept calling the FLDS)

    She says that’s the only way to stop the abuse, because even if Warren gets sent to prison, he has “several brothers” waiting to step into his shoes, and anyway he can still run the FLDS from his prison cell.

  55. AnonE, True that Warren’s pending trial and probable conviction will change his life forever but his FLDS flock and the new underworld leadership will just emerge and carry on the Theocracy. The Federal Government can envoke the RICO Act and seize all of this churchs assets and hand out lengthier sentences that will go much farther to stop and dismantle this fanatical fundamentalist sect. A Task Force aimed at all polugamist groups that, like the FLDS Church, continue to practice these organized underworld behaviors and practices need to be rooted out and ending their practices is equally as important as stopping these Warrenite zealots.

  56. Here’s the link to the Flora Jessop interview Anon E Mouse was talking about

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/07/25/earlyshow/living/parenting/main20082832.shtml

  57. OK All of you! I am one of these people. We need your prayers. We need your love. We are part of gods children like you are. SEND HOPE –

  58. I said I was done posting. I didn’t lie. I changed my mind.

    All major networks are telling the story. And all of them are listing the story under CRIME and or JUSTICE. Not Entertainment as some others have been. Also included are many local news outlets in many different states.

    People are watching and will continue to watch. The word is out. And for that I am ever so grateful for each and every reporter who has tried to tell the story.

    Randy and Kathy I saw the latest video -thanks for sharing.

    And a big thanks to everyone for putting up with me.

  59. Warren is now being housed in the Tom Green County jail. Guess there’s another mug shot out there. His visiting day will be Tuesdays.

  60. Some good pictures from this morning.

    http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/article/Polygamist-leader-s-trial-starts-in-Texas-1578309.php#ixzz1T8jaymcn

  61. did I mention that I love Flora Jessop? she says it straight out.

    And CAJim- I think your post is spot on.

  62. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2011/07/25/jeffs.court.arrival.InSession

    If you listen you can hear Mike Watkiss calling out questions to Mr. Jeffs.

  63. Midday update on Warren Jeffs trial
    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/52256558-191/jeffs-trial-walpole-courtroom.html.csp

  64. Someone from InSessions was there? 🙂

    For 7 years I was calling CNN courttv/InSessions home.

  65. Has anyone found out why Ben and Brent H. didn’t go? And has anyone heard from Brooke?

    I know, I know. She wrote the book with Dargers. But before that she reported about the Polygamy issues for years. As far back as 98 if my memory serves me right.

    I wonder what she and Trent are thinking? They tooo are in my thoughts today.

    I’ve been the anon. in the last few posts.

  66. Here’s a report from KSL, a SLC TV station, they have a live reporter on site, watch the video link in article for another view of prep walk of Warren Jeffs as well as comments from Texas Attorney General Gegg Abbot.

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=16515463

    Video Courtesy of KSL.com

  67. Lindsay Whitehurst has taken over since Brooke went off to write that pro-plyg book

    So far she seems like an excellent reporter, in fact bill the bully has already attacked her.

    Her blog that starts where Brooke’s left off

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/52256558-191/jeffs-trial-walpole-courtroom.html.csp

  68. wow – it is actually happening
    hhg

  69. Thanks everyone for updates and links to video. I appreciate being able to come here and easily catch up on coverage.

  70. Of interest, Gov. Rick Perry will be in San Angelo, tomorrow for what is billed as a political event. It interesting that both the Gov & AG will be in town, wonder if any one will ask the Gov his opinion of the Warren Jeffs trial.
    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/22/perry-to-appear-at-local-event/

  71. Todays perpwalk:

  72. Yes anon at @2:57pm

    Beth Karas is there. But i just heard her on HLN, and she went on and on about how Warren E. Jessop was trying to exert his power to take over Warren’s leadership role.

    Beth: it’s William, duh

    And Mike Watkiss was interviewed on IS earlier today and he was there.

  73. http://conchovalleyhomepage.com/fulltext/?nxd_id=130047

    Video of everyone coming to the courthouse this morning. You can hear Mike Watkiss shouting out questions to Warren.

  74. BenWinslow Ben Winslow
    Scheduled to be on @RodArquette’s show on 105.7 KNRS in a few mins to talk #WarrenJeffs trial. Tune in! @fox13now #Utah
    16 minutes ago

    florajessop Flora Jessop
    Getting ready to go on @issueswithjvm Jane Valez-Mitchell and talk about #WarrenJeffs trial. #polygamy
    5 minutes ago

  75. I’m waiting for it to come on also. I am mostly pleased with the media coverage. Someone on InSession, awhile ago, said this was a case based on religious freedoms. I was yelling at the TV..NO IT’S NOT! I looked all over for a place to send them an email…and gave up. Their web site is still mired in the Casey Anthony debacle. I am also making a pest of myself over on Huffington Post, where some of the ‘less than smart’ posters are also talkiing about this as religious freedom. I keep chiming in, trying to educate the pedophile supporters.

  76. I’ll pass it on tomorrow, but Jeffs’ attorney said in open court that this case was about Mr. Jeffs constitutional right to practice his religion as he saw fit.

  77. Will the press please quit saying the sect split off from the mormon church over a hundred years ago? I believe the earliest the particular people we are talking about were members in good standing of the mainstream church until the mid 1930s. 1890 was not the end of anything.

  78. http://media.scrippsnewspapers.com/corp_assets/asphalt/swf/trinity_embed.swf?sid=SAST&sl=warren-jeffs-trial

  79. PT, why does it slug Detoto as “Jeffs’ FORMER attorney?”

  80. Don’t know. I’ll have to check that out.

  81. Watkiss asks a running Jeffs:

    “Mr. Jeffs, did you rape those two girls?

    What about the white bed in the Temple, Mr Jeffs? Sir!?!?”

    LMAO

    We will be finding out soon enough.

  82. Mike Watkiss is one of the brightest lights to shine forth a searing focus on this covert circus. Watkiss commented that WS Jeffs, after more than three years of incarceration, was looking a little peaked and stooped in his shoulders. I guess the medical slips will be tried next. ‘Warrants’ headed into a real stress test and today we got the Courthouse mouse, again.

    ‘Count of Squeaky Springs, Texas’ namely count up the series of felonies, count up the total ‘Child Brides, count up the number of his plural wives and count up the gaggle of children but don’t count on an innocent verdict.

  83. I wish I could offer some valued words of wisdom, but after waiting so long for this day I am truly tired. It’s almost like I’ve held my breath for the past 3 years and now I feel like I can start breathing again.

  84. I think everyone here can relate Proud Texan. What an awesome job everyone has done to keep this board going and sharing all the info.

    There is still the trial, and then the Feds have yet to stand up and say what they have uncovered and with everyone knowing about so much they really can’t say… “it’s still under investigation”.

    But this has been a long time coming imo.

  85. Anyone else wonder why it’s all kinda quiet in Utah and Arizona?

    I do. Too quiet. With Ben and Brent and Paul Murphy hitting the news a lot over the last few months, it makes me wonder what they are doing.

    And Mark Shurtleff? How about Tom Horne?

    Yup, they are up to something.

  86. If any of you guys see Matthew Waller tell him Walton says Thank you. He has a sketch artist in the courtroom. 🙂

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/25/stage-two-of-jury-seating-to-start-in-jeffs/

  87. I just wanted to say Thank You to my personal hero Mike Watkiss for his coverage of this trial and the many years he has spent bringing out the TRUTH about the FLDS and the situations here. The man doesn’t have a selfish bone in his body and is fearless of calling anyone out no matter what the cost is to him. We love you Mike!!! Thank you to FLDS Texas for your wonderful webite and all of your time and energy spent! You do make a difference! Thank you to (almost) all your posters and their info and thoughtfulness it really helps when your living around this mess here! Thank you again, Jinjer Cooke and Family

  88. Jinjer –
    We all support you and your family. Best wishes for the future !

  89. GREAT sentiments Jinjer! Mike Watkiss has always impressed me for his tenacity and persistence. His awards speak for themselves and Oprah Winfrey drop in my estimations the way she overlooked him when covering this saga on her show. You’re a stud, Mike, when you called out to Warren today he may have stooped shoulders but he looked to be cowering away from you to me.

  90. Jinjer, keep fighting. We are trying to get the message out there. Y’all hang tough!

    Me on the other hand, I’m trying to decide if being called a bigot breath buffon by Celia is a bad thing. I think coming from her it’s probably high praise.

  91. You can always try the ever so popular adult retort, I know you are but what am I?! Seems to work in some circles.

  92. You make me smile mc199

  93. Passing out the kudos, lest I forget, Flora Jessop spoke the BIG message today to the parents, especially the mothers that it is past time for them to get some spin and for law enforcement to target the number one felon abettors, namely the wives. Flora Jessop looking for an ultimate resolution that ends the charade, parade and before the mixing of kool-aide.

    To shrill for your tastes then pray tell us what the towers, locked enclosures and secured para-military weapons cache is for what?

  94. “He occasionally looked up at three of his male followers who had come to court Monday.”

    Any ID on those three? Was his brother Lyle there?

  95. Today is “Ascension Tuesday”. If ‘Warrant’ is a prophet can’t he even find the stairway to Heaven?

  96. To shrill for your tastes then pray tell us what the towers, locked enclosures and secured para-military weapons cache is for what?
    CAJim said this on July 26, 2011 at 12:43 AM

    You know CAJim, it occurred to me the other day that if they do believe in the “end times” – and think they will be the only chosen ones, then maybe the cache of weapons is to defend their “holy spot” when the rest of us come banging on the gates wanting in. They are certainly wacky enough to believe it.

  97. Lyle wasn’t there, it was Lindsey Barlow, JD Roundy and a man I had never seen before.

  98. Possible explanation Watergirl but if I was a resident on the YFZ Ranch looking up at a Tower, fenced in and knew that there was a cache of para-military rifles held near the Temple and a 0.50 caliber sniper rifle was stored therein it would have a ‘gulag’ atmosphere for me. The FLDS Church runs it’s own Bible school and the violent history is taught, the simple facts remaqin that taking unilateral and violent action(s) is a part of that history, reference Battle of Crippled River and Mountain Meadow Massacre.

    I don’t like or think that a cache of semi-automatic weapons should be stockplied, likely illegally, by a supposed ‘not for profit’ church group, imo.

  99. Today is “Ascension Tuesday”. If ‘Warrant’ is a prophet can’t he even find the stairway to Heaven?

    CAJim said this on July 26, 2011 at 7:51 AM

    Hey that post calls for a song:

  100. There it is A Texan. Great pick for a song of the day.

  101. Edit, sorry my post above reference to ‘Battle of Crippled River’ should read ‘Battle of Crooked River’.

  102. Look !

    Hanging Warren Jeffs is of no consequence. The damage has been done.
    The survivors of CCA/Hildale need your prayers and compassionate attention. They chose unwisely who followed YES. However they all remain our brothers and sisters. You can add value by adding energy to the healing process thats needed. You can send Hope You can send Love.
    I am living there, these people are broken. Pray for us

  103. You’re all in my prayers, Spanky. I hope things get better soon.

  104. lwhitehurst Lindsay Whitehurst
    Fascinating, contentious morning of jury selection. Defense asking long involved questions, prosecution objecting #WarrenJeffs #polygamy
    12 minutes ago

  105. I’ve seen how “broken people” look, act and feel. I’ve seen it in natural disasters and in a few cases man made disasters.

    Groups like Red Cross/Salvation Army have moved in and brought their little buckets that contain things to help such “natural disasters”. Sometimes they help. But sometimes getting a bucket of cleaning supplies is a deep reminder of what they have lost.

    Tougher are the man-made disasters.

    But with both types the thing that has gotten many thru it all is their “own strength” and their own will to move on.

    Moving from one flooded plain (FLDS) into the next (CPark and others) is like seeing the Lake 100 miles away only to be flooded out by the ground waters that seep in.

    Spanky I wish and pray for better things for everyone.

  106. hanging warren jeffs is of no consequence? “Brokenness?” well, this evil false prophet’s multitude of actions over the past decade sure have had consequences in thousands of lives, haven’t they? and anyone who kept hanging onto him and slaving for him, except the very young adults and children trapped in this lawless society, deserves to be “broken.” flds themselves sure have been good at “breaking” alot of things, haven’t they? Breaking children’s minds and bodies, ” breaking the bank” with the taxes others must pay in order to give so many flds welfare for the children they can’t support, and laws that flds break every single day. Brokenness has been needed for many years, by this proud, hypocritical, idolatrous bunch, that teaches a boatload of wrong things to its many children, wrong things about the true God, their own country, and the world around them. I am glad to hear that people supporting Jeffs are FINALLY feeling “broken.” An awful lot of decent Americans, law-abiding citizens and taxpayers, have felt their nerves “broken” by this crazy group’s beliefs and actions. flds deserves to suffer, and I am talking about those who have been adults for some years, that have gone on supporting this rottenness that just rolls along on in the name of God. “Brokenness” will be very good for them- but frankly, I expect that they will just they go on with their hypocrisy, pride, and lawlessness. I doubt the “brokennness” will last long at all. They will go right back to BREAKING our laws, misusing govt funds, teaching prejudice to and mistreating their kids, and making sure they treat the rest of us in America like inferior and condemned people who are only to be “used” when necessary. Amercia shouldn’t have to keep tolerating all of it. It’s disgusting.

  107. All this brokenness, because Joseph Smith came up with a clever, manipulative way to justify his sexual greed.

    For some men, it really is all about the penis.

  108. I live in an area where there was a natural disaster last year. Yes, folks do get through on their “own strength” and support of their friends, family and Church groups. Many find they are stronger than they thought they were. But, they are not folks who have lived their lives having someone else dictate to them every aspect of their life like in FLDS. When you rely on someone else’s strength (one man rule) it is a foriegn concept to pull yourself up by your boot straps. These sheeple no doubt do feel very lost. I will add them to my prayers along with the young girls and lost boys.

  109. For those that can remember watching the very first sons of Perdition video clip – Remember the young boy sitting on the cliff saying that for years he thought about suicide?

    The pains they felt about leaving the only thing they knew to be true?

    Tossed in the land of in between?

    Do you guys remember Pliggy? He was a poop head at times but he too struggled with being in the land of Perdition. Right or wrong. That is where their thinking is.

    No home, no family, no school, no Church and no Prophet. Nothing.

    I can point fingers at Warren all day long for all the crap he has done. But much of this was done wayyy before Warren. That is why they are in this spot now.

    But they will be fine. They will move on if they are allowed to. The little transfers over to another group is in my opinion just more of the same.

    Third Cousin brought a link over that shows pictures of the 53 raid. Had the officials done what they were suppose to back then this story more than likely wouldn’t be taking place.

    Look at those photos. Look at those women with 4-10 kids. Look close. How many of those kids are of the same age? Were all those kids indeed the children of the mother holding a child?

    Look at those women and the living conditions. And she was able to pull off a great feat by taking care of so many the best she could. And while being told that the only way she could get to Heaven is by being the plural wife of some man.

    Now you tell me that God didn’t already have his arms around that woman for having to put up with the likes of a man telling her he was her key to heaven.

    Gretchen the people are broken. They have been broken long ago.

    What is imo really inexcusable is the system that allowed it ALL to go on and continue to support the underlying push behind it all. That imo is a deal gone wrong. Terribly terribly wrong.

    Sam Brower made the comment that it is time everything should come out. I couldn’t agree more.

  110. Here’s more on jury selection from San Angelo paper:

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/26/second-day-of-jury-selection-opens-in-jeffs/

    Appears that many in San Angelo are biased from defense lawyers opinion.

  111. Spanky- hope this helps. http://www.youtube.com/user/TheRoadHomeUT

  112. More on jury selection from point of view from SL trib.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52262949-78/jeffs-jurors-already-case.html.csp?page=1

  113. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE7ZrJAs4Sc&feature=player_embedded KXAN news

    Warren – no handcuffs- and an unmarked car

    Where is Sheriff Doran? Deputy George Arispe? what happened to security?

    Where does Warren sleep at night?

  114. Walton, that was a Tom Green County Sheriff car he got into and Deputy George Arispe was right there with him. The other men are all Texas Rangers. He was transferred to the Tom Green County jail over the weekend.

  115. Holy crap, they picked a jury.

  116. SL Trib reports that a jury has been seated:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52262949-75/jeffs-jury-jurors-texas.html.csp

    The jury is made up of 10 women and two men.

  117. The San Angelo paper reports that supression hearing has started now that a jury has been seated.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/26/prospective-jurors-who-admit-to-bias-dismissed/

  118. Let the games begin….again! These suppression hearings cover the same material from the previous trials with the same judge….[right?]….and they expect her to reverse her previous decisions….because…..????

  119. Third Cousin, care to repost the link to the ’53 raid photos?

  120. Sure anon:

    In the very early morning on today’s date in 1953 the Arizona governor invaded Short Creek, set up a government camp, and bussed all the children out. Right or wrong, this is a critical date in many memories.
    Here is a link to the photos taken during the raid. Thank you Mountain West Digital Library:

    http://mwdl.org/index.php/browse/byInstitution/19?sortId=&recordsPage=270

    Also, the Utah State historicals:

    http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/results.php?CISORESTMP=/cdm4/results.php&CISOVIEWTMP=/cdm4/item_viewer.php&CISOMODE=grid&CISOGRID=thumbnail,A,1;title,A,1;sourcd,A,0;creato,200,0;none,A,0;20;title,subjec,none,none,none&CISOBIB=title,A,1,N;sourcd,A,0,N;creato,200,0,N;none,A,0,N;none,A,0,N;20;title,none,none,none,none&CISOTHUMB=20%20(4×5);title,none,none,none,none&CISOTITLE=20;title,none,none,none,none&CISOHIERA=20;sourcd,title,none,none,none&CISOTYPE=link&CISOOP1=all&CISOFIELD1=title&CISOBOX1=Short+Creek&CISOOP2=all&CISOFIELD2=sourcd&CISOBOX2=&CISOOP3=all&CISOFIELD3=creato&CISOBOX3=&CISOOP4=all&CISOFIELD4=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOBOX4=&c=all&CISOROOT=/USHS_Class

  121. 10 women and 2 men

    http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/26/church-leader%e2%80%99s-child-sex-trial-begins-day-1/

  122. Thanks Twist – Good to see you here.

  123. Heah, Spinner Winner thanks for the ‘In Session’ post.
    Question: Do you have any idea/take on the suppression topic concerning something sealed by a Federal Search Warrant?

  124. The suppression hearing will be over the 2008 search of the ranch and also the Nevada traffic stop that cause Warren to be arrested. Both issues have been raised before on suppression hearing, but not in the same hearing as will happen tomorrow.

  125. I feel your pain Spanky, it is broken, and has been for a long time.
    I am anxious for my family who is still professing faithfulness in Warren
    though I doubt the true sincerity of their belief, and see and hear fear
    and uncertainty in their countenances. First of all, they still talk to me occasionally, which is taboo. The repairing needs to be gradual, and
    with a lot of compassion, as a forceful change will just cause a lot to
    withdraw further. These people are afraid and horrified by the world at
    large, while also being fascinated by it. My little nieces and nephews
    are intrigued, to say the least by my facial hair, and you can see the
    natural curiosity of children being forced out by their parents. Normal
    children are afraid of the monsters under the bed, the flds children are
    afraid of everyone not part of their community, when they should be scared of the people they are told to trust.

  126. Just what Anon 9:46 said, CAJim.

  127. Lovely words, LTG. The suppression of the natural curiosity of children sees almost criminal to me, with a five and seven year old.

  128. Walton, that was a Tom Green County Sheriff car he got into and Deputy George Arispe was right there with him. The other men are all Texas Rangers. He was transferred to the Tom Green County jail over the weekend.

    Proud Texan said this on July 26, 2011 at 7:29 PM

    Thanks Proud Texan. I looked at the video and did the pause a few times and I see that it is Deputy George Arispe. But the car isn’t the same car that they used to drop him off in yesterday. And it still doesn’t explain the fact that he isn’t in cuffs.

    And what ever happened to the Big Texas Ranger uniforms that they all wear? Is this the going to court Texas Ranger style?

  129. My biggest concerns are over closed and secured enclaves, sex trafficking over borders and UEP Trust resolutions that are lawful, equal and not restored into ‘dirty hands’.

    Any guesses on who steps forward to speak to the Press & Public on Prophet WS Jeffs behalf, no one would be a PR disaster. I am entertaining Nominees, besides my fav, namely Naomi Jessop Jeffs Jeffs.(no typo)

  130. Walton, that KXAN video is actually from Monday. Jason, the Schleicher County deputy just behind Warren and to his right wasn’t at the courthouse today. Only Deputy George was there from Schleicher County. As for the other men, they are Rangers, just a different batch. Nick and company are around somewhere.

  131. Walton, that KXAN video is actually from Monday. Jason, the Schleicher County deputy just behind Warren and to his right wasn’t at the courthouse today. Only Deputy George was there from Schleicher County. As for the other men, they are Rangers, just a different batch. Nick and company are around somewhere.

  132. Sorry for the double post, my name didn’t show up the first time and I wanted Walton to know it was me writing it.

  133. Thanks Proud Texan. Here is a few more videos and photos. http://www.gosanangelo.com/videos/detail/jury-seated-jeffs-trial/

    If you could.. would you look at some of the photos and tell me if some of those guys that are dressed in suits/sunglasses are Texas Rangers or are some of them from the Sunglasses agency?

    Who is all there? Local LE. Texas Rangers and ???

    Have you seen Lindsay? Matt Waller? Randy and Kathy?

  134. Today is “Ascension Wednesday”, owing to spiritual problems beyond the control of the FLDS Church ‘Ascension Monday/Tuesday’ were cancelled. Fervent faithful fanatics are asked to search their concsciences to see if they might be the cause of this technical difficulty. The current earthquake forecast is for rock solid firmness and vibrations aren’t expected. If anyone notices the entry to the ‘Stairway to Heaven’, please, contact your local Bishop immediately.

  135. There has never been an official Texas Ranger uniform that I know of.

  136. All of the guy hauling in documents and/or around Jeffs are either AG office people or Rangers. There are also some Texas DPS who are in plain clothes in and around the courthouse. In that video I saw 5 of Jeffs’ 7 attorneys. Kearney and Robert Udashen walked up together and Carla Perron, Emily Detoto and Deric Walpole walked up together. Judge Walther was with her bailiff.

  137. As for reporters, Lindsay Whitehurst, Matt Waller, several from CNN, AP, Mike Watkiss, Carolyn McEnrue.

  138. In turning down Walpole’s request, Walther said one reason he has had so much work to do in so little time is that Jeffs not only fired his previous attorney but asked Walpole not to consult him — an order that was beyond the court’s control.

    While stating his case, Walpole gave the first public hint of Jeffs’ planned defense, saying “my client’s right to practice religion as he sees fit is in jeopardy.”

    Comments by Warren’s attorney. Seems the first thing is that Walpole needs to be educated on the fact that raping little girls is not a religion.

    Any person is free to believe whatever they want, it’s when they act on those beliefs that they get into trouble. If you want to believe that smoking pot brings you closer to God then go ahead and believe it, but when you get busted for possession, your religion isn’t going to help you.

    Bottom line is, believe whatever you want, just don’t put it into practice if you don’t want to run afoul of the law.

  139. I was also curious why Jeffs doesn’t have on handcuffs, but, also a bullet proof vest. In previous cases I remember him wearing a bullet proof vest.

  140. Not sure WaterGirl. Guess they are just confident of their ability to protect him and also keep him from running. There are so many cops around. It’s not like all the pretrial hearings where it was just 2 guys who would wait and take him inside. There are at least 5 around him and more DPS blocking the street.

  141. Walpole’s calim that his client is entitled to practice his religion unfettered simply doesn’t reflect the factual interpretation of this US Constitutional freedom nor recognize standing US Supreme Court rulings that have placed some limitations upon this individual freedom and right. Read ‘Reynolds vs. United States’ which was a test case backed and supported by Brigham Young and resulted in a 1879 ruling that has stood since that time. Reynolds precedent states that breaking a existent statute and claiming a religious belief as your motive is not a recognized basis upon which anyone can base their defense, ergo Warren S. Jeffs does not possess the right to practice his religion,”…as he sees fit”, total baloney.
    Religious xealots that proclaim that their religious tenets are above ‘Gentile’ laws face the inevitable outcome of being found guilty for attempting such arrogant claims that don’t have any basis within the US Constitutional valid in terpretations. This unfettered claim is akin to Civil War claims thet secessionist rights existed within the US Constitution, sedition is not a itemized right within the ‘Bill of Rights’, either.

  142. Cowboy hats and sunglasses are about as official of a uniform for the Rangers as it gets.

  143. Get him Texas PLEASE. Then after him lets go one monster by one. They all deserve to be in prison. Then they can be in plural marriages and be traded like sexual baseball cards.

  144. Well, it’s July 27th and I am assuming Jeffs is still alive. So much for the theory that he would “blood atone” himself on July 26th.

  145. Reason aside, Warren’s defense is that he is doing God’s will.

    He has fought with the “lawyer-craft” over that issue time and time again.

    My guess is that his attorneys are reluctant to go that direction with any vigor and rightly so.

    “My client had sexual relations with underage girls under God’s direction” could do their client more harm than good.

    One of the articles from yesterday mentioned how engaged Warren was with his attorneys, writing them notes and such, during jury selection.

    He is probably driving them nuts.

  146. My personal take on the battle plan axiom of,”Answer Them Nothing” avoids having to try to defend oneself in a ‘Gentile’ Courtroom where the proverbial ‘hadwriting is on the wall’. Warren’s dictations repeatedly reference his referring to his actions being unlawful and subject to punishment but he acts in defiance that he is following a higher order. No Court is going to allow such a defense to be presented if in fact he holds no legal basis or precedent. Claiming such an imaginary defense would expose the defense counsel to claims of their own incompetence and malfeasance, upon appeal the case coulkd be made that Warren lacked competent representation and deserves a retrial.

  147. That’s a good thing, Betty. Can’t be too careful when it comes to narcissistic delusionals. I wonder if he’s got some astonishing Plan B.

    TT, maybe the court will have to deal with him by escorting him out of the courtroom like they handled the forever singing Mitchell in Utah. I hope not because I want to hear about his every facial expression, move and whisper with every piece of evidence that comes out.

    I suppose he’s had plenty of time to practice his ‘answer them nothing’ poker face, though.

    If any faithful are allowed (by Mr. Jeffs) to be there I’d *really* like to be a fly on the wall just to watch their faces. I wonder what instructions he’s given about that………. oh, that’s right… no internet, no TV, don’t look at the newspapers, and don’t be here.

  148. As for reporters, Lindsay Whitehurst, Matt Waller, several from CNN, AP, Mike Watkiss, Carolyn McEnrue.

    Proud Texan said this on July 27, 2011 at 9:47 AM

    🙂 I am feeling much better. Thank you once again.

    CAJim -Mitchell also played his own games with the courts. I think that when it comes down to it – they could actually have court with Warren sitting in his cell.

  149. Cowboy hats and sunglasses are about as official of a uniform for the Rangers as it gets.
    texastwist said this on July 27, 2011 at 10:59 AM

    Don’t forget the starched white shirt

  150. I think this might be the first case where a defense is actually presented. One of the experts they listed is Ken Driggs. He’s an FLDS apologist from way back. He will be the one testifying about freedom of religion. The State has always said this isn’t about religion, it’s about sexual assault.

  151. Emack appeal and Jeffs case.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/26/courts-ruling-could-affect-other-cases/

  152. LOL – if you google “God told me to do it” or “God told me to – defense” you get lot’s of links to wacko’s who tried to use that defense for all sorts of things – like murder, sexual abuse…. Doesn’t look like any of it worked.

    Also some very nice “God told me to” Tshirts. This was my favorite:

    God Told Me To Tell You Not To Believe Any Other Person Who Told You That God Spoke To Them, And To Give Me Your Lunch Money.

  153. Can you imagine the photoshop opportunities with that shirt?

  154. Well the religeous aspects and argument is already being heard and made outside of the Court with comment from Walpole about his clients righ to worship as he sees fit. Basically, they don’t have a valid defense so creative arguments, claims of persecution and describing the proceedings as a ‘Witch Hunt’ suffices for a air of plausibility in lieu of an adequate defense strategy. I am amazed at how outlaw, doggedly criminal and displayed fanatical axiom of,”Answer Them Nothing” is being demonstrated in the Courtroom. Basically, Warren is holding up his invisible middle finger to our legal process in order to follow his higher order and play the martyr to his host of zealots.

    I would add this behavior to the ‘Bad Acts’ that are pending, based upon a guilty verdict, to show these theocracy believers that our democratic sensibilities have been breeched. Tolerating this practice of behavior is to flaunt our legal system and there should be swift and measured punishment for such outlaw behavior(s). Biblical teachings on someone who is ascribe to being wicked has to match three criterion 1). the sinner commits his trespasses by choice, 2.) then the sinner teaches/enjoins others to commit their own trespasses, and 3.) the sinner fails to recant their behaviors and denies their trespasses to others.

  155. http://abcnews.go.com/US/warren-jeffs-accuser-evidence-polygamy-trial-shock-world/story?id=14168432 Warren Jeffs’ Former Accuser Says Evidence In Polygamy Trial Will ‘Shock The World’

    wow

  156. “…photoshop opportunities with that shirt…”

    And don’t forget bat-boy.

  157. There was a blurb about the case in the “Hot Items” section of my local paper this morning, but I was disappointed to see that it claimed Warren was being prosecuted for arranging underage marriages.

    He’s being prosecuted for sexual assault of a child.

    The apologists can throw up all the religious persecution smokescreens they want, but I don’t think the jury is going to be fooled – the charge is still sexual assault of a child. If Warren’s defense is that he has a right to do it, he’s going to go down in flames.

    After all, he’s already stated that underage marriages were being deliberately arranged for the purpose of bringing the FLDS into conflict with the government, where upon his god was going to set him free and smite the rest of us.

    Be careful what you wish for, Warren!

    I wish I was able to go to Texas for the trial. I would stand outside the courthouse with a big sign that said:

    Pedophilia is not a religion!

  158. Thank you for the GMA link, Walton.

    Opening statements and introduction of evidence to start next week according to AG Greg Abbott.

    Will we see any courtroom histrionics from Warren?

    Possibly, since he had a episode or two in his Utah trial.

    $23K on phone cards in five months.

    Drone, drone, (damn them to hell), drone, drone, drone.

  159. Thank you for all the prayers. There is much to be done on cleanup here. There are no laws to protect people from what has been done here. The pain and anguish created by families and individual rights being trampled by ambition and possession is apparent. Come see. I would be happy to give you the tour.

  160. http://abcnews.go.com/US/warren-jeffs-accuser-evidence-polygamy-trial-shock-world/story?id=14168432 Warren Jeffs’ Former Accuser Says Evidence In Polygamy Trial Will ‘Shock The World’

    wow

    walton said this on July 27, 2011 at 12:24

    Below the video version of above print article, IMO it will be most shocking, many found the testamony in the Mitchell polygamy trial shocking, but IMO it will pale by comparison to the felonious profit Warren Jeffs trial trial

    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/polygamist-sect-warren-jeffs-sexual-assault-trial-follower-speaks-14168580

  161. In Session on Television is covering another case, but they break in with updates about every 15 minutes,, they have interviewed Kathy Jo Nicholson this morning, and they actually have a team in San Angelo covering this trial… They asked to be allowed to have camera in this trial but were denied,,, dang it!!

  162. Deputydog1 is back. 🙂 Good to see you.

    Here is some more from Mike Watkiss : http://www.azfamily.com/news/national/Its-A-Go-In-West-Texas-126248283.html

    One of men that is at the trial for Warren declined to speak with Mike. I’ve been watching Mike for years and he truly has been devoted to shedding the light on this story.

  163. Thanks Walton,, Good to see you to 🙂 I been watching In Session on TV and have seen Mike Watkiss several times being interviewed today and also John Dougherty this morning,,, trully men of getting to the nitty gritty in a story…

  164. Walton D-dog,I agree with both of you and I just wish that Brent Hunsaker was on-site with this daily coverage from San Angelo, he’s another long standing newsman that has been very stalwart in holding the focus on the FLDS Church and it’s tyrannical leadership.

  165. CAJim I am not sure why Brent or Ben aren’t in Texas..

    I just saw a little bit on InSessions and heard Mike talking about the Lost Boys. And then… not sure of the reporters name but he said that this story is much more to this story than Warren Jeffs.

    🙂

    And.. they had an older clip of Geidon ( I think it was him) talking about wanting to go to school.

    This is really a good thing to see so much coverage. Everyone. I am really glad. Really really glad.

    I think when everything starts to hit the fan the more that people are watching the better off it is for everyone. I know I feel better.

    In one of the earlier clips someone mentioned something about how some of the mothers would hold their hand over the babies mouth and nose so it would stop crying. That is what it looked like that one girl did in one of the videos about the family from CPark. John Q. did the interview. I think it was called Inside Polygamy.

  166. http://youtu.be/OXITABB0zZg Polygamy Family Interview 3

    around the 1:18 mark the baby is crying and 2nd wife asks first wife to help. It is then that it appears that she places one hand over the babies mouth and with her other hand holds (squeezes) the babies hand.

    I think these are the wives of one of the school teachers. He had met his wife while she was still in school.

  167. Clutching at straws…

    “omissions such as neglecting to tell the judge that the call prompting the request for the search warrant came from a blocked number — made the search unlawful. The caller…also failed to give the first name of her husband, the defense said.”

    Suppression hearing done for the day.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/27/third-day-of-jeffs-trial-opens-with-hearing/

  168. Before the actual hearing started, both sides agreed on some stipulations. They stipulated to the information in the Finding of Fact and Conclusions of Law from the 2009 Suppression hearing and also a hearing held in Utah about the red Cadillac evidence. In my opinion, once Udashen agreed to that, he pretty much stipulated to the Ranch evidence and the Caddy evidence.

    Tomorrow’s part of the hearing is more about whether or not Warren even has standing to object to the evidence from the Caddy. He was not the owner of the vehicle and the driver, his brother Isaac, gave permission for it to be searched. He has to show that the items that the State wants to introduce can be tied to Jeffs. 1 way would be to show that the items in question came from the duffle bag that had all of the letters addressed to WSJ. They plan on calling Dutchover and an FBI guy to testify. Said it would take about an hour.

    I feel an exing coming on for Isaac.

  169. Deric Walpole filed another Motion for Continuance today. It was denied.

  170. Lmao@Walton.

    I watched that video and whatever you’re smoking must be out of this world. I know Lisa and Helen personally and you would be hard pressed to find two better mothers.

    I understand that Warren Jeffs and others in the FLDS are easy targets, and rightfully so, but I know some people in CP personally, and if you’re trying to lump them in with the FLDS people then you are obviously misinformed or you have an agenda.

  171. Lol@Walton

    You’re as delusional as the FLDS people you rail against.

  172. Anon. I am sorry you feel that way about me. If you look at my post, I said that is how it looked to me. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe you are wrong and you just can’t see all the signs.

    You said:” but I know some people in CP personally, and if you’re trying to lump them in with the FLDS people then you are obviously misinformed or you have an agenda.”

    The very same has been said about the many in the FLDS including Merrils wife Barbara.

    Agenda? I guess you could say maybe I do. I am tired of people making excuses for those who place their children in harms way. Mentally or physically.

    You said you know some of them personally- do you know what group they belonged to prior to joining the CPark?

    In the link below it has a little background for Aerial and being placed with his wives. IF the link doesn’t work- google Helen Hammon polygamy. The family was mentioned in the book titled Modern Polygamy in the United States by By Cardell K. Jacobson, Lara Burton

    http://books.google.com/books?id=A2alByNHwbUC&pg=PT161&lpg=PT161&dq=helen+hammon+polygamy&source=bl&ots=QuOLEZsH08&sig=I2ZcYujYTgE5N5ZVa-N2Y-HEzho&hl=en&ei=rXgwTqaPH4ShtwfzsM2kCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=helen%20hammon%20polygamy&f=false

  173. Anonymous at 6:45 PM

    Anon, i don’t have a dog in this fight. I looked at this and it looked like the hand went right on the baby’s face. What does it look like to you?

  174. The delusional ones are Jon Huntsman and Mitt Romney running for POTUS with this noise banging off to the side.

    But hey its their money.

  175. Ariel first caught the eye of his two wives in exactly the same way, he was their math teacher. “I was a senior and the minute I saw him it was like, ‘that’s it. That’s who I’m supposed to marry,'” recalls Helen.

    But dating is prohibited by the church; instead Helen prays and consults with her parents and church leaders. “My goal is to do my father’s will, not what I necessarily would like to do,” she says.

    Incredibly, according to custom, the man is also in the dark about being a prospective husband until everyone else is in agreement.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=2868784&page=1

    some forest of trees you must live in if you can’t see that this has at least 4-5 red flags all over it.

  176. Oh the other delusional ones are Warrens attorneys who – admittedly under duress from the guy who writes their checks – are claiming some “religious right of Warren” to molest children.

    Warren isnt bothering mixing his koolaid with water anymore, he’s making crackle with it, but these guys will at least get paid errrr chase him with judgements, one of the two.

  177. From the ABC link: Portrait Of A Family
    The Hammon family and the residents of Centennial Park allowed “Primetime” into their homes in order to distance themselves from the backward and isolationist image of the notorious polygamist community in neighboring Colorado City, Arizona.

  178. http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/video?id=2872563 Polygamist Paradise: Centennial Park Members of this Arizona community are religious, educated polygamist

    Ariel came from a polygamist background. His father had 16 wives and 75 kids.

    Does anyone know if he is related to Sara Hammon?

  179. The SL Trib reports that Judge Barbara Walther has ruled that the YFZ evidence can be used in trial. Thursday a hearing use of evidence from Nevada arrest. Trib article reports that opening arguements possible Thursday afternoon.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52271986-78/jeffs-evidence-search-warrant.html.csp?page=1

  180. Here’s the San Angelo papers write up on judge’s ruling.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/27/third-day-of-jeffs-trial-opens-with-hearing/

    Will Jeffs in desperation play the loonie card, praying till his knees bled, banging his head on the wall, or will he play the Mitchell role, singing and preaching damnation to the judge, we will all see a the trial gets going.

  181. RIH and TexasBluesman,
    I want to thank you for all of your legal commentary in the past two years. As many of the same issues are coming up for Jeffs’ trial I feel competent to comment loosely on the issues when in other blogs – and it is good to be able to squash a lot of “objections” early on by restating what the real legal issues are….

    So many many thanks to both of you!!!!

  182. I am LOVING it that Warrant Jeffs is finally in trial. As a 7th generation indoctrinated victim, or I mean Mormon, who jumped off the Mormon Titanic…I can’t get enough of this shiz. Wish they were prosecuting more than the dirty ‘baker’s dozen’ bahahahhahahaha.

  183. Here’s an interesting blog from the SL Trib reporter covering the trial.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogspolygblog/52275752-191/jeffs-texas-evidence-walther.html.csp

  184. http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/27/jeffs-trial-being-watched-closely-from-afar/

    Some interesting comments from Sam, Gary Engles and Issac.

    I don’ t know how Willie Jessop, Willie Timpson and Wendall can be starting any kind of Church. Aren’t they all being investigated for different issues concerning this story?

  185. HHG,

    I want to second what you said about RIH and TexasBluesman.

    They were fantastic teachers, shared their knowledge generously and were all around good and patient guys while we inundated them with questions.

    If either of you are reading this – thanks again so very much.

    Miele

  186. BTW:

    7 zillion pieces of paper or 1000 gazonga-bytes is the usual amount of paper work I file when I sue myself anonymously and answer me nothing.

    The attachment for ProudTexan’s suppression of round red things runs another dozen moga-bytes. (That’s more than mega but less than gazonga.)

    Howdy to everyone. Carry on.

  187. Walton:

    Since I’m bothering everyone this early AM – with respect to the article you linked written by Hawkins – could someone please get in touch with him and tell him it’s the Lone Star state – not the Longhorn state. I don’t have an account over there or I would do it.

    You asked about the Texas Rangers attire. White Stetson, khaki slacks, boots, navy blue blazer with tie and starched shirt – like Proud mentioned. But that is only if they want to be seen.

    If they don’t want to be seen, they wear something else.

  188. Miele, I’m so glad you’re back. I’ve missed your wit.

  189. I posted a comment Miele, not sure if he reads his comments.

  190. http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/28/texas.polygamist.jeffs/

    Anderson Cooper and Gary Tuchman talk about the trial also included are a few words from Gary Engles and Sam Brower.

  191. Ah Miele, great to see you here.

  192. Anderson Cooper annouced last night that there would be an hour long show this coming Sunday 8PM Eastern dedicated to FLDS and this trail. Everyone who prayed for exposure – your prayers are answered. Let’s just hope they get it right.

  193. So word on twitter from gosanangelo.com is that Warren has asked to let his counsel go and represent himself.

  194. …In that case both the lawyer and his client are crazy.

  195. I guess so he can appeal on the basis of ineffectual counsel? LOL

  196. I was expecting him to try to represent himself. They are probably suggesting that he plead guilty and then work the appeal route so that the evidence never gets public. Fortunately, I am betting he will say no to that and thus not deprive us of the proof that he is “morally indefensible”.

    He still thinks he can say that he speaks for God and everyone, even the court, will believe him.

  197. He is nuts !

  198. He is not only nuts, he’s a Drama Queen. He has taken a deliberate path to this justice junction. He intends to milk it for all it’s worth. Every move he’s made, every little side road he’s explored has been, if not outwardly conspicuous to all, deliberately blatant. He may have even said to himself, “Damn! What took you so long?!”

    His goal? Aside from wanting more than 15-minutes of fame, it has been all along to separate the sheep from the goats – knowing that he is himself a goat carefully disguised as a sheep. His hatred is directed at the sheep. His need is to destroy by leading them down his own road to destruction.

    Why? As with many sick minds, he aims to take out as many sheep with him as he can. “If I’m going down, you’re going down with me, because you won’t think for yourself, you won’t say ‘No’ to authority, and because after all these years of hearing the edict, ‘Even the very elect will believe a lie and be damned,’ I am here to prove to you how very true that is. If I can’t be saved, neither can you.”

    He ejects the goats right and left. But they are the lucky ones who dared to put even the tiniest hurdles in his destructive path. So he “handles” them and they escape, but not unscathed. He makes them suffer for their sheepishness.

    An additional pleasure is to see the mainstream LDS Church squirm.

    He likely feels proud of all he’s accomplished so far. Ultimately, his bent mind and willingness to sacrifice himself for his goals have provided plenty of proof in his putting.

  199. Speaking of goats and sheep. Have you guys ever seen the movie The Men who stare at goats? Crazy stuff but a Good show.

    This whole thing goes one step further imo.

    And.. there is no George Clooney in this story.

  200. http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/28/jury-to-hear-opening-statements-in-jeffs-trial/

    If he is allowed to plead his own case I wonder if he will send himself a bill and continue to ask the people for money.

    Warren Jeffs and Harvey Rabbit stand before you Judge Walther.

    LOL

  201. I sure hope that pleading for himself does not allow him to go free on appeal. I wouldn’t mind if he ends in the looney bin for all time, if the evidence is released so that the folks still in doubt at the Creek could see it.

  202. sorry anonymous at 11:15 was HHG

  203. A song I was listening too upon reading of Warren’s desire to go forward pro se.

    Very peaceful

  204. YAY! Warren is going to represent himself? This should now be very interesting.

  205. “Taking Note” @ 10:38 has hit it dead on! The “handwriting on the wall” is as bold and vivid as graffiti on an L.A. overpass. Don’t expect any “defense” at all. Confession time. No drawn out trial, no soap opera, no sensational evidentiary wallow-fest.

    Stand by for a rerun of January of 07 —– over.

  206. Here’s a theme song for the day:

  207. How appropriate, TC… suits & ties too! LOL

  208. I hope that this trial,isnt hours of diatribe by Warren Jeffs,, he knows nothing about the law and I hope she Refuses it!!! I hope Judge Walthers says NO

  209. So if he goes pro se, is the court going to have to endure long periods of silence while he has the floor, waiting for god to tell him what to say?

    I heard the poor sheeple had to endure hours of silence while waiting for him to speak during those piped in phone calls.

  210. I listened to In Session this morning,, and they were interviewingi Rod Parker about warren’s decision,,, Parker made it clear, He does NOT represent Warren, but the FLDS,,,

    Judge Walther just agreed that Warren Jeffs could represent himself

  211. Judge also wants to do opening statements today,, Jeffs said he needed a fewdays, but Judge said they would swear in the Jury, and we would go from there, so we will see

  212. I’ve been thinking that he was following Charlie Manson’s defense strategy and this is another one of Charlie’s moves.

  213. Looked how well it worked for Charles Manson. He’s been in…what….40 years with no parole?

  214. I’m sure you’ll see a news report soon… Warren is being allowed to go pro se… none of the lawyers are released… at least ONE of them has to be in the courtroom with him… none of them can intervene unless he asks their advice.

  215. I’ve been avoiding drawing parallels between Warren and Charlie Manson, but this is right in line with the other wacko.

  216. I wouldn’t be surprised if he hasn’t spent some of his jail time studying the law. He’s been incarcerated long enough to get a law degree. Oh… right… he’s been on the phone most of that time. Ummm… never mind.

  217. http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/28/texas.polygamist.jeffs/
    Anderson Cooper and Gary Tuchman talk about the trial also included are a few words from Gary Engles and Sam Brower.

    —————————–

    I could be wrong, but I thought I saw a young lady in a prairie dress give the finger to the videographer. She turned to the camera and lifted up her hand – both her face and her hand were blurred out.

    How rude.

    So Warren is going to represent himself. Could it be because his attorneys are horrified at the thought that “God told me it’s OK to have sex with little girls” is the defense he is demanding?

    I imagine he thinks he can drag this on indefinitely, then have the whole circus thrown out on appeal and start over again.

    It’s great to see Anderson Cooper reporting on this. Hopefully he will focus on the criminal activities of the FLDS and not on the braids that Oprah thought were so newsworthy.

  218. This will ratchet up the coverage.

  219. I leave it to Judge Walther but I do hope she puts time limits on Warren’s Wind Festival sessions.

  220. I was already curious about the questioning of his “wives”? How is this going to work with him representing himself?

    anyone hear how they are coming with finding the Wives and getting them to town?

  221. Opening statements at approx. 2:30 CDT. Per gosanangelo.com and HLN

  222. I have to say I should have seen it coming but didn’t…. This is the story that entertains forever and forever….
    HHG

  223. In the clip with Gary Engels and Sam Brower they both talked about how the local cops aren’t doing what they are suppose to be doing. I thought that they got new cops in that area.

    And Sam said something about the Attorney General making comments about the FLDS being run like the oranized crime org. or something like that. I remember Mark Shurtleff saying that on tucker years ago. What has Mark Shurtleff done to dig into ALL the other crimes aside from Polygamy? What investigations has he done concerning any of the crimes connected to Polygamy?

    Couldn’t that also be said about the other cults in the area?

    They mentioned episodes of violence. What episodes? The book burning? NO ONE has been charged with that. Paul Murphy talked to the guy at the Safety Net meeting and from what I understand the only ones that are going to the Safety net Meetings are those from CPark.

    What other episodes of “violence” has there been?

  224. Maybe he’s smart enough to know he’s going to be convicted anyway and he wants the chance to have the “pulpit” and tell the world his point of view.

  225. Well, sounds like there is an audiotape of the sexual assault. Ugh!!!

  226. Should the Dream Team graphic be updated to include his own bad self?

    I vote for the Bat Boy photo.

  227. “During the prosecution’s opening statement, an attorney said the state has an audio tape of Jeffs sexually assaulting a 12-year-old girl. A prosecutor also said there was DNA evidence to prove Jeffs fathered a child with a 15-year-old girl.”

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52279831-78/jeffs-represent-trial-assault.html.csp#disqus_thread

    And away we go…

  228. Horses and cows have been maimed and killed. Winter wheat has been plowed under. Cant remember all of the nasty things they’ve done.

  229. And a new headline on the updated Tribune article:

    “DNA evidence, ‘sex tape’ implicate Jeffs, prosecutors say”

    Horse, barn door, Warren.

  230. Shurtleff saying they’ve had no underage marriages since 2005. Saying that Utah started all this by taking Warren’s power away by taking the trust away. He’s saying there’s no problems in Utah, he took care of that with the Safety Net

    I’m not making this up, he actually said all of this on HLN.

  231. If the sex tape is the actual event (rather than Warren dictating the event), it most likely took place in a “heavenly session” attended by one or more of Warren’s wives, including the scribe.

    Warren aspired to impregnate his worthy wives in the “heavenly sessions.” so that the incoming souls would be attune to and worthy of being a part of the redemption of Zion.

  232. Yep…a sex tape….gag!!!

  233. OMG he is literally answering them nothing. He won’t even say “no, your honor” when Walther asks him if he’d like to give an opening statement. He really thinks the walls are going to fall down.

  234. AP reporting that Warren said nothing during his opening remarks. He just sat there in his chair.

    I thought he might at least read aloud that manifesto/revelation he sent from the Reagan County Jail in February.

    Maybe he’s saving that for his closing argument.

  235. TT – does he say that in the dictations about wanting to impregnate them during the heavenly session?

  236. tweets are now saying that Jeffs is mute – not saying anything. Judge called recess for end of day so his hired lawyers can tell him he has to say something. Answer them nothing is what he is doing…

    gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    Jeffs staying silent. On break to have standby attorneys advise of danger of not saying anything. Jeffs said nothing for about an hour

    lwhitehurst Lindsay Whitehurst
    Judge to #WarrenJeffs: “failure to object and participate in these proceedings will result in a v bad result for you.” #polygamy @sltrib

    lwhitehurst Lindsay Whitehurst
    #WarrenJeffs Judge: do u understand u have the right to object to evidence given b4 the court? Jeffs: I understand

  237. Anyone know why Wally Budgen or Piccareta aren’t representing Warren on these charges other than they are out-of-state?

  238. I meant to say above – so his “fired” lawyers …

  239. Well, the Courthouse mouse has stood up to voice his,”Answer Them Nothing” defense. Not really all that surprising that the ‘Count of Squeaky Springs, Texas’ is, also, a part-time lawyer. He’s following the New Testament when Christ refused to answer the High Priest or defend himself, problem is that Warren’s evidence, writings and recordings will convict him.

  240. TC,

    In one specific instance, yes. That wife was one of Rulon’s and she was in her late twenties. June 2006 was the conception and her pregnancy was confirmed in early July. Warren specifically states that she conceived in a heavenly session and when you go back to the time of probable conception, she was definitely present for one of the sessions.

    As early as 2003, in some of the trainings he gave to his wives, he spoke on many different occasions about the importance of the mother’s state of mind at the time of conception as to the disposition of the child’s soul.

    He gives an example of one of his father’s wives who (according to Warren) was not keeping sweet enough during at least one of her pregnancies and thus, the child conceived was eventually apostate.

  241. This just keeps getting weirder and weirder…. Will the judge go with another [?] court ordered psych eval??? Ron…time for a legal driveby! Can they try him when he doesn’t participate??? Can they just continue as he sits silent, making notes on the record that he refuses to speak?

  242. Anyone just watch Shurtleff on tv? InSessions and HLN you guys are awesome!!

    I love Flora. Laurie Allen appears to be a thorn in Mark Shurtleffs side.

    Awesome!!

    I don’t know who the announcer is at HLN but they keep showing Vinnies e-mail addy and I know that it isn’t Vinnie talking. But this guy knows. There is more to the story.

    And then we have all those reporting from the courthouse. 🙂 I just don’t think that they will be able to continue to ignore all this stuff.

    Warren will probably appeal with or without a lawyer. It is his right. But the truth is going to come out even if he remains silent. Who wants to hear him anyway?

    Brenda J. was also on the show via the phone.

    And Flora even mentioned the Safety Net. lol Go Flora go!!

  243. Wow, thanks TT.

  244. I saw it walton, it was great!

  245. I saw it walton, it was great!

    juliekan said this on July 28, 2011 at 5:30 PM

    Yeah, it sure was. They really got it. It was great. There was so much mentioned that they can’t go back. And it was imo tastefully done. As tasteful as it can be when discussing such things. No screaming (except me in my chair, no pointing of the finger ( except me in my chair), no bad editing, no made up stories. All facts supported by link after link story after story.

    I hope Texski got to see it. And my friend Senora where ever she may be.

    I hope they find all the rest of the stuff.

  246. Flora Jessop tweeted today she is going to TX to see trail. for herself. Wonder if someone is paying the bill to get her expert opinion. She is also appearing on Joy Bayner (might have misspelled it) show tonight for full hour.

  247. Answer them nothing is going to be his defense. It won’t get him anywhere in the outside world.
    How will it play back home?

  248. One of the things the judge is concerned about is whether at the present moment Jeffs is competent to stand trial. His behavior is sufficiently bizarre that Judge Walther is probably wondering whether it might be prudent for a short delay to have him evaluated. I doubt Judge Walther wants to delay the jury, and will try by questioning from the bench to show that he understands what’s going on in his trial.

    But, yeah, it just keeps getting weirder and weirder.

  249. So, anyone know a legal type person to get an opinion on how Warren representing himself will affect the outcome/appeals for this trial?

  250. OH! thanks Ron, you showed up right when i asked. Thanks.

  251. Yes, thanks Ron, your legal driveby’s are always welcomed and appreciated! I’ve never seen/heard of a case like this where the defendant, acting as own attorney….does nothing! Just sits in a quiet lump…and answers them nothing. Usually, you see the opposite…loving the limelight, pontificating ad nauseum, trying to prove they are WAY smarter than the judge and prosecuting attorney, etc. This is truly turning into a 3-ring circus!

  252. Technically Warren without a lawyer should be handled like Warren with a lawyer. In reality, the Court of Appeals will at least consider that he didn’t have a lawyer and see if they can cut him any slack.

    In the end the only real hope is the suppression argument and I think that one will be a loser.

  253. Lindsay Whitehurst just tweeted that Warren says he continues to reject these proceedings calling the trial an “injustice”.

  254. Well, sounds like there is an audiotape of the sexual assault. Ugh!!!
    juliekan said this on July 28, 2011 at 3:22 PM

    Exhibit 11A

  255. I wouldn’t be surprised if he hasn’t spent some of his jail time studying the law. He’s been incarcerated long enough to get a law degree. Oh… right… he’s been on the phone most of that time. Ummm… never mind.
    taking note said this on July 28, 2011 at 12:38 PM

    Funny you should mention this. Judge Walther specifically told him she wasn’t going to continue this case long enough for him to go to law school.

    If he was smart he’d educate Teresa enough so she could go to law school.

  256. http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=16562092

    KSL report

  257. Ramble on, Warren.

    Or don’t.

  258. I hope Warren has learned the difference between an acquittal and a hung jury.

    During the Rodney Holm trial, Warren dictated that one juror was sufficient to find him not guilty.

    Warren puts more stock into priestcraft than lawyercraft.

  259. In the ksl report who is the guy with the white shirt with Judge Walther?

  260. I didn’t see that part, but earlier video showed her walking in with her bailiff

  261. “lwhitehurst Lindsay Whitehurst
    #WarrenJeffs Judge: do u understand u have the right to object to evidence given b4 the court? Jeffs: I understand”

    ——————————————-

    Thanks for finding this Watergirl

    I think he is afraid to object because its all true

  262. Oh, he’ll object, but his grounds will be based on Celestial Law.

    Higher law and all that jazz.

  263. Yeah

    Wonder how that will play

    “Yer honor, this is a time honored practice back in my home state of Utah, you see, they leave us be back there”

  264. I think he will try a filibuster once things getting moving along. Hell, look at all that practice the guy has preaching at his people.

  265. I dont see him doing anything but setting in the courtroom like a stump, waiting for his God to destroy San angelo,,, thats how freaked UP he is

  266. He didn’t object to any of the evidence by prosecution being admitted,, had NO opening statement at all, and if he speaks,,, the jurors will think he is Crazy!!

  267. At this speed the trial might just last a week.

    Oh, and a thought occurred to me while reading about how clueless he thought his counsel is, if he hadnt been so busy micromanaging shortcreek and burning books from his jail cell, and having threats to Obama and everyone else sent out, he might have gotten his attorneys up to speed a little faster.

    Too bad

    Soo sad

  268. He was tested by two doctors for mental competence already before his first trial, he acted the same way then… there isn’t anything wrong with warren except he thinks he’s God, just like Brian David Mitchell did

  269. His Prophet stick is broke

    Now he is just another perp

    Whose life is but a joke

  270. In answer to the question about the man in the white shirt, he is another bailiff at the courthouse.

  271. Timely repost of FLDS gangsta rap song

  272. Here’s an update from the San Angelo paper:

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/28/jeffs-silent-as-case-is-built-against-him-say-of/

    IMO it seems trials of polygamists are full of surprises, Jeffs giving the jury the silent treatment, Brian David Mitchell giving singing concerts, what’s next? Perhaps Jeffs like Mitchell is crazy like a fox, put on an act of crazy behaviors, con judge into believing he’s not of sound mind, off to the mental hospital. Don’t think ole Warren will like the North Texas State Hospital in Vernon, TX.

    The Vernon campus provides maximum security adult forensic psychiatric services to adults and secured forensic services to adolescents referred from throughout the state.

    http://www.dshs.state.tx.us/mhhospitals/NorthTexasSH/default.shtm

  273. Medvecky’s done another “open letter” to the FLDS.

  274. A Texan

    AH HAAA

    Yes, the pesky Brian Mitchell defense

    If you cant put on a defense act like a nutjob!

  275. anon

    WHAT yet another open letter to the cult?

    And here I thought hugh’s letter was just tops

  276. wow, he really is going to let them put him away, and then tell his people that they need to pray harder and that he’s suffering for them. what a bastard.

  277. Hey yehaaa

    Yeah, aint it odd. Just sad.

    I couldnt imagine having to follow this rabbit trail and its attending nonsense….

    Some folks were smart and got out early

    🙂

  278. http://www.texasmonthly.com/2011-08-01/webextra6.php

  279. Yep yehaaa, you said it.

    I think the sheeple will be a bit freer once he’s in the TDCJ system. I doubt they let him use the phone quite so liberally.

  280. anon

    WHAT yet another open letter to the cult?

    And here I thought hugh’s letter was just tops

    Stamp said this on July 28, 2011 at 10:09 PM

    Here’s the letter:

    http://freethefldschildren.blogspot.com/2011/07/open-letter-to-f-lds-church.html

    IMO he’s nuts as always, but this has a bit of sanity, The “tell them nothing” doesn’t work. Ole Warren’s been drinking too much of his own koolaid.

  281. The following rules apply to the system:

    •Phones are available from 7:00 AM – 10:00 PM, unless conditions dictate a change
    •Calls are limited to 15 minutes
    •You will hear a warning message one minute before being disconnected
    •Offenders are limited to 240 minutes per month
    •All calls, except to the Attorney of Record, are subject to monitoring, recording and voice recognition to complete call
    •Calls may only be made to home landline telephone numbers (“Home phone”). No calls are allowed to cell phones, 800 numbers, businesses, pay phones, or international numbers
    •Friends and family members listed on the Offender’s Visitor List are required to meet certain validation requirements. These requirements are listed on the Registration page.

    http://www.texasprisonphone.com/

    there are also limitations regarding disciplinary issues and what level you are (1,2,3,4) but i didn’t understand all that.

    I’m guessing he would have a lot of calls to his “attorney of record”, newly of record after his incarceration, if that happens. a little hard to call yourself, lol.

  282. God Told Me To Tell You Not To Believe Any Other Person Who Told You That God Spoke To Them, And To Give Me Your Lunch Money.

    Watergirl said this on July 27, 2011 at 12:08 PM

    HA HA HA! Watergirl, thanks for my laugh of the day.

  283. I am amazed at how outlaw, doggedly criminal and displayed fanatical axiom of,”Answer Them Nothing” is being demonstrated in the Courtroom. Basically, Warren is holding up his invisible middle finger to our legal process in order to follow his higher order and play the martyr to his host of zealots.

    This was said by CALJim yesterday. Considering what happened in court today, I now declare CALJim to be the new prophet, seer and revelator.

    CALJim can prophetize much better than Warren any day of the week!

  284. Hear hear, Jim rang the bell with that one!

    Good thing Walther sees Warren coming from a mile away.

  285. They asked to be allowed to have camera in this trial but were denied,,, dang it!!

    Deputydog1 said this on July 27, 2011 at 1:23 PM

    First Deputydog and TexasTwist, it is nice to have both of you back posting. You both have been sorely missed.

    However, DD, it is my understanding that CourtTV/TruTV/InSession did not file the request with the court to have Warren’s trial televised. I don’t now why, but I don’t think they followed up. Twits. I would love to watch the trial at home in my PJs.

  286. Lmao@Walton.

    I watched that video and whatever you’re smoking must be out of this world. I know Lisa and Helen personally and you would be hard pressed to find two better mothers.

    I understand that Warren Jeffs and others in the FLDS are easy targets, and rightfully so, but I know some people in CP personally, and if you’re trying to lump them in with the FLDS people then you are obviously misinformed or you have an agenda.

    Anonymous said this on July 27, 2011 at 6:45 PM

    Can you say “cut from the same cloth?”

    Convince me that Centennial Park allows their young girls to chose their OWN husbands. Convince me that Centennial Park allows dating. Convince me that Centennial Park does not practice “Placement Marriage.” Convince me that Centennial Park does not pressure the girls to turn themselves into the Priesthood for marriage – although they at least will wait to marry the girls off to their assigned husbands until after the girls turn 18 (although the girls are pressured to ‘turn themselves in’ to the Priesthood Council when they first turn 17-years-old).

    If you dare try to convince me of these things, then you are full of s**t, because I KNOW better! I, too, “know some people in CP personally” and I know what they believe in – TODAY.

    Centennial Parkers have recently had enough sense to not marry off underage girls any more in the past few years – that I know of – but that is just about the only delineating factor that I know of between them and the current FLDS group.

    They are indeed “cut from the same cloth”.

    The Centennial Park group is a bit less extreme than the FLDS, but only 2 decades removed from them and though they (CP) has a Priesthood Council (instead of the one man rule) they still have serious issues and don’t give girls a choice in whom they will spend the rest of their lives with.

    They are still “cut from the same cloth”.

  287. watergirl: I was already curious about the questioning of his “wives”? How is this going to work with him representing himself?
    anyone hear how they are coming with finding the Wives and getting them to town?

    ——————————-

    I thought wives couldn’t be forced to testify against husbands. Oh wait, only one is actually a legal wife, the others are all concubines.

  288. He’s following the New Testament when Christ refused to answer the High Priest or defend himself, problem is that Warren’s evidence, writings and recordings will convict him.

    ———————————–

    That and the fact that he’s NOT Jesus.

  289. zillion pieces of paper or 1000 gazonga-bytes is the usual amount of paper work I file when I sue myself anonymously and answer me nothing.

    The attachment for ProudTexan’s suppression of round red things runs another dozen moga-bytes. (That’s more than mega but less than gazonga.)

    Howdy to everyone. Carry on.

    Miele said this on July 28, 2011 at 4:42 AM

    Ha ha Miele, long time… no hear. I am glad to know that you you are still successfully suing yourself. Keep up the good work. Maybe Warren will hire you tomorrow and you will be able to afford a Mediterranean cruise. I just hope that you don’t book the same cruise ship that his other rich fired attorneys select. That might be too much of a Maalox moment for everyone on board.

  290. I watched the Joy B. show with Flora. They had shown a website for Flora but I didn’t write it down and I don’t remember what it was.

    I am hoping that all this coverage keeps going. Each time I’ve seen one of these shows more and more is coming out.

    Tonight they touched maybe a minute or two on the FBI involvement or lack of involvement.

    I think it is all going to come out a little at a time. ( I hope)

  291. I had just posted over at Lindsays blog about Warrens silence.

    Do you guys remember when the Temple was being built? he used much of the design from what I understand that is similar to the Mormon Temple in Nauvoo. ( check out the history)

    Special doors, special paint, glass etc. and while all this was going on much was being said about his behaviour etc. Today in court Warren said something about his lawyers don’t know who they are dealing with.

    Now, Warren isn’t crazy. he passed the looney test when he was first tossed in jail. And he isn’t crazy today. But I am wondering if Warren doesn’t think of himself as Joseph Smith.

  292. Here is a link to the Nauvoo Illinois Temple: http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/nauvoo/

    check out all the photos and make sure to look at the history.

  293. I asked my husband who has (very reluctantly!) been kept up to speed on all of this.. I asked him if Warren really believes he is the prophet and he said no – he is a predator and behaving like a predator would.. I still don’t get it. Maybe CalJim is right – this is the only possible behavior at this point that might make an impression on the Creek…

  294. Walton, if Warren was trying to make the Eldorado temple look like the Nauvoo temple, he didn’t succeed.

  295. In Session has Christi Paul, Jim Kyle, Lena Jakobsson and Beth Karas in San Angelo and CNN has Ashley Hayes, Gary Tuchman and Susan Chun. I don’t think a motion to televise the proceedings would have been allowed, but since it was never presented as such we will never know. CNN/InSession sent a letter request to the Judge, so no hearing had to be held. I don’t know if they got a response, but it wasn’t made public if they did.

  296. Warren Old Attorney, that represented him in his last trial,, the one who got the DUI said last night, this isnt a ploy on warrens part,, he thinks he can represent himself better than attorneys,,, OOOOOKAY! Well, so,,,, Im sure the attorneys were glad to allow him that honor, since they didn’t want to be there in the first place and tried to quit before it went to trial..

    What Im most interested in is the Tape,, the recording of the assault on the girl by warren where others watched it happen… Its my opinon, Warren knows he is guilty, and so he is just going to set there and let it happen…

  297. Hey, I saw someone named Lindsey something from the Salt Lake tribune on Insession yesterday when they were doing a live feed from San Angelo,, is Brooke Adams no longer at the trib?

  298. Mark Shirtless was interviewed yesterday on IN Session also, what a turd!!! He said Laurie Adams didn’t know what she was talking about, and that Utah had done more than necessary to prosecute those who have committed assaults on young girls and to date, his office knows there are no underage marriages been done,, OH REALLY!!! how the hell does he know that??? the little safety net meetings they are havinag?? HAHAHAH

  299. Nah, Brooke is now selling wonderful polygamy family with a book.

  300. Yesterday during Warren’s “sermon” he kept talking about true justice and filing a pure motion. It got me wondering if maybe he’s got it in his head that he can file some document and make this all go away.

    To say that the events of yesterday were totally bizarre is an understatement. Warren was very chatty before the jury entered, although he had really long pauses during his speech. Some pauses were 20 seconds. You wanted to holler at him to just spit it out. He requested some sort of legal assistant/secretary to put his writings in the correct format for court.

    Once the jury came in, he sat quietly at his table, not giving an opening statement, responding when shown evidence that was being introduced, or cross-examining witnesses. 5 witnesses were questioned, including the Nevada FBI guy who examined and IDd State’s Exhibit 11A. Warren just sat at his table and didn’t even object to that exhibit, which is probably going to contain the audio of his rape of the 12 year old victim.

    I talked to one of his fired attorneys and was told that Mr. Walpole was going to stay in the courtroom with Warren since he had cleared his calendar and the others would be just a phone call away if he needed backup.

  301. The date of the assault was given as May 6, 2006. I’m sure there are dictations about a “heavenly session”. I haven’t looked yet, but may attempt to this weekend. I have contended all along that “heavenly sessions” include sex with wives.

  302. Brooke is out, Lindsay is in. I think that Lindsay gets that this group isn’t a friendly sort, but she’s still from Utah. The funniest reporter than I’ve met is the Texas Monthly reporter. She’s a hoot.

  303. Actually while she LIVES in Utah she comes from other states.

    I dont know if she is LDS or not, she has been pretty good at keeping that secret, and I dont mind either way.

    She stepped in after a bunch were convicted so its gonna be impossible for her to pull the apologist stuff that ended up embarrassing Brooke off the assignment.

    Yeah, Brooke tooted off and helped write some pro-pligga book, no surprise there. I think it will flop.

  304. Vintage photos from the Work in the 1940’s

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52282845-78/1944-1945-advocate-allegedly.html.csp

  305. WTW,

    My notes have the on or about date for the aggravated sexual charge as August 6, 2008. I never have seen a copy of that indictment, but my source was a news article written by Brooke for the SLT when Warren was indicted on that charge in November 2008.

    Warren “married” the young lady in question on July 27, 2006 on what turned out to be the second “triple-header” of underage wedding days at YFZ (July 22, 2004 being the first.)

  306. WTW,

    The Texas Monthly blog entry from yesterday was a scream. I don’t think some of these reporters were prepared for just how bizarre Warren’s world is.

  307. I think the YFZ temple was fashioned after the temple in Manti, Utah.

  308. “He requested some sort of legal assistant/secretary to put his writings in the correct format for court.”

    Something like a scribe?

    Maybe they can make arrangements for Naomie to share his current living quarters.

    Nice try, Warren.

  309. Deputy: Its my opinon, Warren knows he is guilty, and so he is just going to set there and let it happen…

    —————————————-

    I think he knows he did it, but believes he has a RIGHT to do it, so in his own mind he’s not guilty. His defense will be proving his “right.” Since his attorneys didn’t want to go with that defense, he fired them.

    When the hard evidence, the DNA and such comes out, he’ll have no defense whatsover against that.

    Plus he believes, or he’s been telling his followers, that any minute God is going to come down, set him free, and smite the rest of us.

  310. Walton, if Warren was trying to make the Eldorado temple look like the Nauvoo temple, he didn’t succeed.

    Anonymous said this on July 29, 2011 at 7:22 AM

    http://flds101.blogspot.com/2009/05/flds-101-history-temple.html

  311. On Joy B show last night – not sure who the person was that was on with Flora. She talked like a reporter. But, she said Warren gave up his right to appeal on “bad defense” when he fired all his attorneys.

    NPR – Wade Goodwyn gave a really good report in the morning news -ok, I always like his voice. He quoted the back and forth between judge and Jeffs. Now that NPR is also reporting it is now National news – not just tabloid news. It will make a lot of people question the lack of action of LE.

    http://www.npr.org/2011/07/29/138810854/texas-trial-of-polygamist-leader-warren-jeffs-begins

  312. Here is the Texas Monthly blog by Katy Vine.

    http://www.texasmonthly.com/2011-08-01/webextra6.php

  313. “Part of the frustration that he expressed in court was that the lawyers don’t know as much about the history of the FLDS as he does,” said ABC News’ legal analyst Dan Abrams said today on “Good Morning America.”

    “That really became the driving force with him deciding to do this himself,” Abrams said.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/warren-jeffs-remains-mute-sex-trial-begins/story?id=14187511

    Dan Abrams has been on my favorite list for years. 🙂

  314. from Tweets this morning:
    lwhitehurst Lindsay Whitehurst
    #WarrenJeffs still silent, no attorney as trial opens for 5th day. Court could recess early afternoon judge says #polygamy #utah #Texas

    GiannaToboniABC Gianna
    Recess: Judge says we could end at 1pm today, pick back up Monday. Prosecutor Nichols says he may be done as early as Tuesday #WarrenJeffs

  315. That npr morning report was the best one yet – ….

  316. For Warren claim his lawyers don’t know the FLDS history is irrelevant. I can’t claim my grandfather’s life as my own. “We have been persecuted for 150 years” is nonsense; none of us are that old.

  317. That blog is very good too!

  318. Keeping up with the tweets –

    https://twitter.com/#!/gosanangelo

  319. Warren just made a 55 min. “objection.” State tried to respond, but then WJ kept interrupting. Court now in recess so Walpole can talk to him.

  320. Actually In Session updated about an ahour ago,, Warren Jeffs isn’t silent today,, He stood up and is objecting to the whole trial,,,, he looked right at the jury and told them his people would trample them under their feet, by making new laws to be protected to practice his religion and protect their sacred rights… There were no long pauses today, just dont know how long the judge will allow him to continue on his diatribe

  321. Why oh why oh why did this judge NOT allow cameras in the courtroom.

    I wanna go to San Angelo and be a courtroom junkie. I want to see and hear this trial – your remarks are great and the In Session twitter updates are okay but I want live – any local television stations covering this that anyone knows of?

  322. Christi Paul who was in the court room, said the some of the Jurors set leaned back in thier chairs with arms folded, others just looked amazed,,

  323. No anon, no cameras in the courtroom,, local paper San Angelo times Matt Waller is trying to update his paper as often as possible…

  324. Hope none of the jurors get caught snoring during his diatribes. Maybe he wants a mistrial on that ground.

  325. There is fixing to be an update on In Session,,, if your on cable its channel 79 if your on Dish Network its channel 246

  326. Actually In Session updated about an ahour ago,, Warren Jeffs isn’t silent today,, He stood up and is objecting to the whole trial,,,, he looked right at the jury and told them his people would trample them under their feet, by making new laws to be protected to practice his religion and protect their sacred rights… There were no long pauses today, just dont know how long the judge will allow him to continue on his diatribe

    Deputydog1 said this on July 29, 2011 at 11:58 AM

    What was the reaction of the jury ?

  327. Insession described him as “in full prophet mode” standing straight and tall and delivering long speeches.

  328. Wow – so he is going to go down big time defending constitutional right to rape 12 year olds

  329. http://youtu.be/JCP_KYLiZZQ AMEN / Lilies of the Field

    🙂

  330. http://www.childbrides.org/trials_spec_AMEN_debated_in_Warrens_case.html

    ‘Amen’ debated in Warren Jeffs case
    from 2007

    Too bad Wally B. isn’t in Texas.

  331. Jeffs delivers 55-minute objection speech
    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/29/jeffs-delivers-55-minute-objection-speech/

  332. “in full Prophet mode” my hell

    He was in full bonehead mode,

    threatening the jury,

    DR Phil is going to interview him in prison and ask him

    “How did that work for ya, Warren?”

  333. threatening?

  334. This reminds me of the presentation of Dr Michael Welner regarding his impressions of polygamists in the Southwest : he felt that a lot of the leaders of the polygamy groups in the Southwest were narcissists or sociopaths. As for Warren Jeffs, I think that both terms would be accurate.

  335. Courthouse Mouse has finally found his voice and now we’ll see and hear the ‘One Man Rule” Theocrat that believes and lives completely outside of our legal system. Martyrdom of himself as the lamb lead to slaughter, of course the DNA, minor wives and babies tell us another story-line. Note he claims his US Constitutional rights then proceeds to demonstrate a total rejection of any ‘Gentile’ laws and espouses solely his brand of higher order. His Constitutional rights, he’ll be afforded a legal and fair trial and his civil rights will be respected but that’s not what he considers ‘true’ rights and freedoms. He’s the wind that blows from an unknown source and we know not where it goes, so we can not follow. His immediate problem is the legal Juggernaut that is going to crush him asunder while his fanatical fervency fails to protect him from his brand of outlaw zealot lead astray along his crooked pathway. Utah and Arizona have spawn this brand of radical and their tolerant treatments have emboldened this societal pariah.

  336. ROFLMAO – So much for “Answer them Nothing.” How you gonna explain that to the sheeple Warren?? Better than Mitchell hymns! If the jurors are to set amount of time for sentence – buddy you just nailed your coffin!

    For the person who complained about not being televised, no worries someone will take the court reporters script and make a movie out of it!

  337. ThirdCousin, I saw a quote in the earliest reports that did sound distinctly threatening, along the lines of ‘we will trample your authority and set up our own laws’ (paraphrased of course). Going back through browser history only shows updated stories that don’t carry that line, though. Maybe we’ll get more in the evening.

    Same report said that half the jurors were staring at him in disbelief and the other half were glaring at him with their arms folded across their chests. Damn, I wish I could find it…

  338. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/29/us-polygamy-trial-texas-idUSTRE76S5UR20110729

    “You are stomping on sacred ground. You are treading on a people of peace. This religion deserves protection. The government of the United States has no right to infringe on the right of a peaceful people. The mockery must cease. This religious persecution must cease.”

    What happens if Warren blows a gasket before all the evidence comes out?

    I want to know more about that evidence they picked up from the Escalde. Who owned all the vehicles? Who owned all the safe housese?

  339. The red escalade was given to warren and party by New Era Mfg. people. Don’t remember if the caddy was registered to New Era or to ine if the New Era people like J. Wayland.

  340. Close, but there was more – it referenced smashing the authorities, IIRC.

    @gosanangelo seems to have worked out a way to get details out – tweets are coming thick and fast now.

  341. Aaaaand here we go :

    #Warrenjeffs delivers threatening statement, directly quoting God: “…Counties of prosecutorial zeal to be humbled by sickness and death”
    1 minute ago

  342. Oh hells yeah he’s losing it. Shall we place bets?

    Judge tells #Warrenjeffs that if he threatens jury for their service, he will e removed from court. Jury brought back at 2:10. State resumes
    3 minutes ago

    less than a minute into state examination, #Warrenjeffs objects. Keeps standing. Judge tells Jim twice to sit, he eventually does.
    3 minutes ago

    (I’m sure they meant ‘him’, not ‘Jim’ – damn autocorrect!)

    If it keeps up like this they’ll get enough media pass requests to set up an audio feed into a separate pressroom – that’d be the easiest way to go.

  343. The red escalade was given to warren and party by New Era Mfg. people. Don’t remember if the caddy was registered to New Era or to ine if the New Era people like J. Wayland.

    chemist said this on July 29, 2011 at 2:34 PM

    From what I understood he had a bunch of keys to many vehicles.

    Has there been any mention of Patricia Keate?

  344. I wonder, when the DNA evid comes in, if WJ will try to say that GOD ‘changed’ the DNA to match his [WJ] because he is the prophet. He’s just delusional enough to try it. Wasn’t something similar….’changing’ DNA….tried in an earlier case? It wasn’t really MY DNA, it ‘changed’?
    This trial is way up the scale on the bizarro-meter. And, sadly, very entertaining as his antics continue. One of the commentators on one of the TV shows last night wondered if, now that he is representing himself, if some of his [adoring] followers will show up to see him and hear him speak. And I still can’t get over Willies sudden morality, as I’ve mentioned earlier. In an interview, he acts like ALLLL this info is new and a miracle revelation to him!! Didn’t he give a daughter to WJ? Or, maybe I have my Willies mixed up….I get lost in the names sometime!

  345. Two bits says Warren is wearing a red g-string under that suit.

  346. ruthie, I now need to clean my keyboard….I’d just taken a gulp of coffee….and it went everywhere! That g-string visual may have done me mental damage, as well. EEEWWWWW

  347. lol, sorry.

  348. Thank you everyone for the running commentary and updates re: Jeffs trial. This board has become my go-to for information. I don’t post much but I am here reading. I sure appreciate everyone’s efforts. Do you think that WSJ realizes what he really is or has he completely bought in to his own hype? I’ve read nearly everything written on the fundies, starting many years ago when they moved into my neighborhood in the Bitteroot of MT. I just can’t decide if they are truly delusional or they are wantonly reprobate. Or maybe those are the same thing. Any insight?

  349. princessofsiam – I have been pondering that ever since the raid – I think that the the flock is truly delusional (not in the sense of mentally ill) but in the sense of brainwashing. I think that the “leaders” are wantonly reprobate in that they were also delusional but then, given the whole patriarchal thing with women being property, power corrupts them and they become predators by training (deliberate and by experience of the society).

  350. I’m a member of the Centennial Park group so I do have some insight into the FLDS and their thinking.

    This is my take: I honestly believe that Warren vacillates from the knowledge that he is putting one over on the FLDS people, knowing that he is not a prophet of God, to truly believing that he is God’s lone representative on the Earth and that his every word should be obeyed.

  351. Thank you. I too have believed that they vacillate (Warren and Co). I have personal experience with a family member becoming involved in a cult and then the process of coming out and attempting to regain his sanity. 15 years down the road, it’s still a daily struggle. At some point, it seems that WSJ’s conscience became so seared that he no longer recognizes sin. Maybe this happened in childhood? I’ve researched destructive cults/groups for many years now (fascination I guess) and they all follow the same pattern. Patriarchal movements seem to be particularly susceptible to doctrinal error and spiritual abuse. We are now seeing the second and third generations of Christian fundamentalism, and they are identical except for polygamy.

  352. mc100 asked a question I really wonder about too. Are there any of his followers in the courtroom? I heard there weren’t yesterday. To me this is significant. It brings to mind a statement made by Willie in a trib article back on April 28th:

    If other members of the FLDS saw the evidence filtering out, most of which has yet to be made public, he believes they wouldn’t support Jeffs.
    “I don’t know of anyone I associate with within the church [that] would defend or endorse what Mr. Jeffs has done,” he said.

    Either Warren has commanded them to stay away, so they can’t hear the infamous tape. Or, someone else has. The average FLDS member has no clue this recording exists — let alone what the content is. Willie obviously found out recently, and I can’t help but think Lyle knows the content thereof too. Lyle has the power to pull the plug on the whole thing. He’s in charge of meetings. I think he won’t because he has too much to lose (IMO).

    I dare say Warren knows that he’s going to be convicted, and could care less as long as his followers NEVER see or hear this evidence. All the sheeple are ever going to hear is that he courageously stood all alone with no attorneys, and defended their religion, and is being persecuted and sent to prison for righteousness sake.

    Suddenly, there will be a miraculous transfer of power to Lyle (whether Warren knows or not) and all the OVER-age young people, who have been waiting for 5 years, will finally start to be married off. All the talk of “no marriages being performed till he gets out of prison” will fade away.

  353. If Warren truly wanted to keep this evidence from coming out he would have pleaded a deal and not had a trial.

    what is your definition of “OVER-age” young people?

  354. I want the Gregory Brothers to autotune Warren

    Like

    Chuckles sheen – 7 gram rocks!

    Amazing similarities to Warren!

    Schmoooo Yo Ho

    Accent on the

    YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

  355. Warren complained about his religion being mocked – yeah, tell it to Osama bin laden, Warren.

    You live a trashy life you get taken out with the trash…

  356. I think Warrens head is going to explode when the evidence and bad acts are marched out.

    Judge should insist on 10 FLDS witnesses

  357. WTW,
    My notes have the on or about date for the aggravated sexual charge as August 6, 2008. I never have seen a copy of that indictment, but my source was a news article written by Brooke for the SLT when Warren was indicted on that charge in November 2008.
    Warren “married” the young lady in question on July 27, 2006 on what turned out to be the second “triple-header” of underage wedding days at YFZ (July 22, 2004 being the first.)
    texastwist said this on July 29, 2011 at 8:50 AM

    The date of the assault was 8/6/06. Warren was in jail 8.6.08.

    Is the 7.22.04 the one that was supposed to be a quadruple header?

  358. Watergirl.

    There have been no marriages since his arrest in August of 06. Over-age just means over 18. Had to see what it looked like typed out … after seeing the word “underage” so much. 😉

  359. From what I understood he had a bunch of keys to many vehicles.
    Has there been any mention of Patricia Keate?
    walton said this on July 29, 2011 at 3:07 PM

    What specifically are you looking for with Patricia Keate?

  360. Anonymous from CP: a question. I think we can all agree that WSJ will be convicted. What I want to know is if, given the level of indoctrination and paranoia, what chance will there be for the members of flds to recognize reality when confronted with it? It seems that there has been ample evidence of fault with the others who’ve been convicted, and that hasn’t swayed their faith in Warren. I’m generally concerned for the trail of victims he is leaving in him wake. Is it too simplistic to believe that they will recognize the truth of this mess? I know historically that isn’t the case with other cultish groups. These people are so emotionally and spiritually damaged. Sorry, is this too far off topic? This is why I never post…

  361. There were FLDS in the courtroom yesterday and today. They stayed all day yesterday and left today when the stuff about the temple came in.

  362. tacopower and mc100, @gosanangelo tweeted today:

    Btw, 2 FLDS men who were in courtroom since this a.m. have left. I asked what they thought of trial so far. One said, “Just observing.”
    2 hours ago

    So there are a couple of them there at least.

    Witnesses aren’t allowed in the courtroom until they have been released and are through testifying, so calling a bunch of them wouldn’t help enlighten them. (Now a live radio feed, so they could listen to the words of their prophet? Maybe…)

    I’m betting he’ll flip out when they get into the DNA evidence – no more than he believes in science, he’s gonna consider that downright satanic.

    The great thing is that he chose the absolute best path to maximum media exposure – a hook like this is an excellent platform to explain to more people just exactly what Texas found in there that made them decide to take these kids.

  363. So-ex-mo – The rule hasn’t been invoked. There is no one to invoke it.

  364. 6:40, you mean the rule of witness sequestration? I got the idea that in TX the judge can invoke it without a formal request (different state, though.) But I get your point – one party hasn’t had enough time to finish law school, LOL

  365. “send of scourge upon the counties of prosecutorial zeal that to be humbled by sickness and death.”

    I was so hoping that he would find an opportunity to use the word “scourge.”

    “At last, said Brooke Adams, a Tribune reporter who covered polygamy for years, ‘we can hear him as he is.’”

    That was in an earlier version of the SLT article on today’s episode of Warren’s World.

    “At last”?

    Nothing Warren has done during this round surprises me.

    Brooke’s comment astounds me.

    Can I get an “Amen?”

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52288100-78/jeffs-child-prosecutors-sacred.html.csp?page=3

  366. WTW,

    My bad on the 08.

    7-22-04 was supposed to be a four-play, but ended up a triple-header.

    1. Warren and a then 14-year-old. No indication from the CPS public documents that she ever conceived a child. She is not the victim in either of these charges.

    2. LeRoy Jeffs and the then 14-year-old who was passed off to become Allen Keate’s victim.

    3. Leroy Johnson Steed and a then 14-year-old who is his alleged victim.

    4. A 13 or 14-year-old (don’t recall without digging for it, but I think 13 is correct) daughter of Allen W. Steed who Warren wanted to marry Eddie Jessop, but it did not happen. Warren’s dictation stated that she was the “least physically developed” of the four girls and that she had been influenced by and was too close to a couple of her “wayward” sisters. Warren also said that she needed to spend some more time under her father’s guidance, but he did not rule out moving forward with that marriage at a later date. All indications are that it did not occur.

    Winston Blackmore said that her father objected to her being married and that is why he got the boot within the next two weeks.

    Warren actually counseled the other three men on how to “receive” a young bride who (paraphrasing): may not yet be physically ready for childbearing.

    The other underage triple-play conducted at YFZ was the one on 7-27-2006:

    1. WSJ and a then 12-year-old who is the alleged victim in his aggravated sexual assault charge.

    2. Leroy Jessop and his then 15-year-old victim.

    3. Raymond Jessop and the then 15-year-old daughter of Warren Jeffs (not the victim in the sexual assault charge for which he was convicted.

  367. WTW,

    Found it.

    The cancelled bride was 13.

  368. someone needs to go and respond to julie worth on cnn….waxing on about illegal searches etc.

  369. a good rundown of what happened when warren went postal

    http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_content.php?id=1667114

  370. Stamp: “Actually while she LIVES in Utah she comes from other states.
    I dont know if she is LDS or not, she has been pretty good at keeping that secret, and I dont mind either way.
    She stepped in after a bunch were convicted so its gonna be impossible for her to pull the apologist stuff that ended up embarrassing Brooke off the assignment.”

    Lindsay Whitehurst is from Ohio. She went to Miami University in Oxford, OH.

    She’s not too bad on the eyes either. Just sayin’.

    I don’t know her religious affiliation. There are Mormons in Ohio, but it is a slim percentage of the States population. There is only one Temple in Ohio (Columbus) and it’s smaller than the meeting house that it is next door to. Community of Christ membership is also possible, they have a similar presence in Ohio to the LDS. Personally I doubt she is either, but who knows? SLTrib is traditionally a non Mormon alternative to the Deseret News.

  371. She is not Mormon, I asked her today.

  372. Flora needs to STFU. Going on Dr. Drew talking about a sex tape she has never heard, saying that Priesthood men stood around watching the consummation. When she knows what she is talking about then she can talk.

  373. Don’t know if this article has been posted yet. Well written on subject of Warren Jeffs with comments from Sam Brower. Quote from article:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/29/warren-jeffs-trial-courtroom-circus-on-the-first-day.html

    “Observers are hoping Jeffs doesn’t hijack this Texas courtroom the same way Brian David Mitchell, the man convicted of kidnapping Elizabeth Smart, did in his federal trial. There are similarities. Mitchell is also a fundamentalist Mormon who had his eye on the then-14-year-old Smart to be the first of a harem of wives. Mitchell was often taken out of the courtroom for abruptly breaking out into hymns.”

    IMO it appears observers are correct, Jeffs is trying to hijack trial with today’s threats and weird behavior. Article also questions wither Jeffs will try to take himself out in some spectacular manner.

  374. Amen

    Texas Twist

  375. The Taiwan news??? Now that’s going global with the news! A London, UK paper has an article also, so apparently it is getting worldwide attention.
    Monday should bring another round of the bizarre ‘revelations’ and decrees. Some talking heads on TV keep asking what his people think of the preceedings, not knowing that most of them [probably] have little to no idea what’s happening in court, unless they are ‘illegally’ watching the news or reading outside papers.
    Someone mentiponed Dlors, a bit back. She came out with ‘someone killed my grandmother’ the other night and that was a bit of an odd statement, cuz I don’t remember that in her book…anyone know about that? Supposedly, after she and grandma had spoken, someone put salt in her dialysis machine and it killed her. Or words to that effect.

  376. Argh…edit button please?! Someone mentioned Flora….

  377. I don’t think most of the sheeple know what is going on. They are being good little sheeple.

    Newsflash of the day is that John C. Wayman was with Lindsey Barlow in the courtroom today. Well, they were in the courtroom until the pictures of the temple were shown and then they made themselves comfortable on a bench outside the courtroom. Guess they aren’t worthy to see Zion.

    I’m guessing the diatribes, outbursts and interruptions will continue. He’ll probably go especially balistic when he sees what was done to the Temple Annex vault door.

    I did find out that he had a secret vault tucked behind a bookcase room in his residence which was known as “the Big House” at the YFZ.

  378. Don’t know which grandmother Flora is talking about, her father’s mother, Gertrude died in 1952 and her mother’s mother, Bertha Mae died in 1979.

  379. Hey Proud Texan if you have any pull could you ask those guys walking Warren in and out of court if they would please put the cuffs on him?

    and no offense to those that have been opening the car door, but it sure would comfort me some if Deputy George would be one of the guys walking him in and out.

    I don’t believe that anything will happen to Warren in jail. But his words could stir some crap up with others.

    Does Warren go back to jail every night? or is he staying at the Ranch?

    And if those living at the Ranch are there because they believe in Warren why aren’t they at the courthouse?

    Who is in charge at the Ranch? Where is Merril? Wendell? Isn’t Wendell and Merils name on legal papers for the ranch?

  380. Warren is still in jail, he is given the courtesy as are other perps going to trial, of presumed innocence.

    Since he ran from the FBI he is on a no bail hold. Note, the security is sky high like any other gang member or notorious perp.

    So, he gets his fair day in court, I am not denying him that nor is Texas.

    All fair and square.

    Too bad for Warren, he brought a cheatin deck of cards to the table, and everybody gets to see how wicked he is.

    They havent even got to half of it yet.

    OBTW thanks TrialWatcher, I didnt know either about the secret vault behind the bookcase in Warrens house.

    What does he have to hide? He is so pure and holy, cough cough!

  381. Walton, Stamp is right, he is allowed the presumption of innocence during the trial. Those big guys who are escorting him in and out are AG law enforcement guys. George usually escorts Warren out, but since he isn’t at the jail in San Angelo, he’s not privy to the timetable bringing him over. Most prisoners have to walk across the street. For safety reasons, they drive Warren to and from the jail. A sheriff’s department person drives the vehicle and an AG guy rides with him. Other AG guys wait by the courthouse. Yesterday, after his death and illness speech, they took him out a different door. Believe me, he’s not staying at the ranch, he’s comfy and cozy at the Tom Green County jail.

  382. Those living at the ranch haven’t come to any of the trials. They might not even know they are going on. After Raymond’s trial, there was a group of his family standing around outside waiting for the sentence to be handed down. Haven’t seen that since then.

    Not sure where Merril is. Wendell was in Colorado living with a son last I knew.

  383. Yes he is allowed the presumption of innocence, but it looks like yesterdays rant threw that out the window.

    I’m told ill bill tells them to fight this in the media on one hand and to shut up in court on the other.

    (neither bit of advice is being followed, alas)

    And he is going to sue people for telling the truth about Warren’s crimes?

    Wow he is further out there than Warren

    Open letter to ill bill:

    “Got crack?”

  384. I’m definitely an outsider watching from a distance, but I can’t understand why so many people are confusing the FLDS with a legitimate religion. People should be free to exercise their faith as they see fit as long as they are not violating any laws. However, when a tribal group (closed, based on family ties and revolving around a tribal leader) begins exerting the kind of control Jeffs exerts (disobedience results in total personal loss: shunning or expulsion, loss of family, livelihood, status, etc.) we have a problem….

    I completely disagree with people who say the difference between religion in general and a group like FLDS is just a matter of degree. Everyone has some sort of belief system. People organize into groups around their beliefs. Leadership and doctrine develops – and you have a religion, a political party – whatever.

    Religion in general is way too broad a concept to be useful in comparison to a narrow, controlled group that is deliberate­ly isolated from the broader society and then taught to live their lives exclusivel­y under the direction of one man – even if it means abusing (or ignoring the abuse of) their own children.

    I’ve read (here, among other places) that WSJ studied Hitler’s theories on mind control. The unifying principal here may be faith (instead of, say, nationalis­m) – but the bottom line is that these people would lose everything and everyone they’ve ever known if they left. Everyone they love and trust and depend upon tells them that what they have heard since childhood is true. There is a lot more to this than the *free* exercise of faith.

    If they were not crossing the red line of child sexual assault we’d probably continue to ignore them – even though I sincerely believe we should care just as much about the abandonmen­t of young boys and (if the reports are true) child slavery. All three practices are seriously abusive, involve innocent children, and should not be tolerated.

    I’m glad this is coming into open. I’m just hoping that we can all ignore the “religious freedom” red herring and focus on holding Jeffs and others of his ilk accountable for their crimes.

  385. I think that his religious freedom is being addressed by the prosecution each time he spouts it. In his closing, I’m sure that they will again address the fact that you are free to believe anything you want so long as you don’t put things that break the law into practice.

    In fact I think Warren might have followers who are reading this blog and telling him what is being said. In one of his rants, he said, “telling us we can believe whatever we want, but can’t practice it.”

    I’ve been saying that all along. Nice to know he’s getting the message.

  386. The way that I view things RICO Warren and BillM are conducting a pretty even match of the ‘Lousy Lawyer’ race. Neither seems competent to be included yet both are flailing away trying to make a valid point. Warren seems to be erasing all of his chances for a legitimate appeal and BillM hopes Warren adheres to the “Answer Them Nothing” axiom before he further incriminates himself. Neither seem willing to shut-up and follow any advice, very entertaining.

  387. From Katy Vines @ Texas Monthly

    After remaining silent most of yesterday afternoon, Warren Jeffs decided today was his day to present his case. The morning was humming along at a rapid pace, with Jeffs remaining silent, until the items from the Yearning For Zion temple were entered into evidence. That’s when Warren Jeffs boomed, “I object!” The jury was stunned. So was everyone else. Jeffs continued, “There is sacred trust drawn by religious leadership…not to be touched by government agencies…this is a standard objection…on the basis of religious freedom and religious practice on constitutional grounds.” This went on and on. And on! (A colleague said he had fifteen minutes of material and stretched it into an hour. It was not unlike Dana Carvey’s Saturday Night Live impression of George H.W. Bush: “A thousand points of light…stay the course…a thousand points of light.” Just replace those words for “this is a sacred trust…government intrusion…an urgent request…immediately stop these proceedings.”)
    Jeffs grew very animated, addressing the jury and gesticulating. He was in his element, and he was on a roll. Just as he seemed to flag, he got a second wind. One person near me timed his speech at 55 minutes, another said a good hour and fifteen minutes passed. Either way, the jury started out interested and eventually grew restless while the journalists got writer’s cramp.
    When the prosecution addressed his complaints in three succinct points, using previous cases to establish precedent, Jeffs seemed to get agitated. He tried to speak several times—more on the “sacred trust,” more on “the rule of religious freedom”—and the judge shut him down. The security team began walking toward him, and I wondered if he would get thrown out. “If you represent yourself,” the judge said, “you have to follow the rules. One of the rules is you cannot interrupt…” and then she sent everyone out for a lunch break.
    But when the jury reconvened, he still wanted the pulpit. “I object to use of religious documents,” he said.
    “I have overruled that objection,” the judge responded.
    “I cannot sit by and…”
    “Please, Mr. Jeffs.”
    “I have a statement before sacred trust is…”
    “Mr. Jeffs. Mr. Jeffs. Mr. Jeffs. Remove the jury, please.”
    While the jury was out, the judge lectured him on his behavior and warned him of the perils of self-representation. Then we all got another surprise: A proclamation from God. He opened a white envelope and read from a paper in a loud voice. “I, the Lord God of heaven call upon the court to now cease this prosecution against my pure holy way. Let it stop now! To continue to be a persecution against my church, I will wrest power from you. I am God overall that speaketh. I shall judge you. I shall let all people know of your unjust way. I shall send a scourge on the counties of prosecutorial zeal to be humbled by sickness and death. Let this cease lest you bring forth an eternal power of judgment upon your own lives.” Here, he put down his paper. “This being instructed by my God.”
    Well. How do you follow that? I wouldn’t want to. The prosecution’s lead attorney, Eric Nichols, started with “Your honor…” but he didn’t get very far before Mr. Silent-No-More interrupted. “There is also an additional thought,” he said. (Of course there is!) At this point, the judge said no more outbursts and brought the jury back in for an afternoon filled with—what else?—more outbursts.
    All this is making me wonder, What is the weirdest trial in U.S. history? Please email me (kvine@texasmonthly.com), tweet at me, or write in the comments section so I have some yard-stick for comparison.

  388. http://www.texasmonthly.com/2011-08-01/webextra6.php

    Here’s the link. She has recapped the other days as well.

  389. To Anon 2:59 pm, When flora mae was a child, their family called U. Fred “Grandpa.” Would that make his wives “grandma?” probably. I don’t recall whether or not they did. Maybe just A. Lydia.

  390. I thought they called him Uncle Fred.

  391. This is probably a nitpicky question…but what evidence was actually proffered and who-all testified for the state on Thursday and Friday?

    I’m curious about the actual testimony and documents. I think Mr. Jeffs’ antics were pretty “out there”, but what was the state doing meanwhile?

  392. U. Fred raised flora mae’s dad (joe c) after their dad died. His children called Fred “grandpa.”

  393. In a moment of compassion I am wondering whether WSJ believed that after he read the revelation the walls of the court would fall and he, god’s faithful servant, would walk out a free man or be lifted up.

  394. SBunne, there was actually lots of documents referred to on Thursday. Ranger Nick ID’d a bunch as coming from the Secure Evidence Facility. He was the first witness up on Thursday. He also gave a virtual tour of the ranch. Next was Eddie Duchover who made the traffic stop in Nevada. Then came Scott Hendricks who is FBI in Nevada. Next was David Boatright from the Texas AG’s office and last on Thursday was Danny Guajardo.

    On Friday first up was a video depo of Dr. Joel Dickens, then Jason Kinard who is Federal ATF, then John Broadway who is FBI. It was when Agent Broadway was on the stand that Warren started his antics. After lunch they finished Agent Broadway and moved to Ruby Guiterrez who is with CPS. After Ruby was Sarah McNealy from the Schleicher County Clerk’s office. Then it was Don Williams who is a Texas Ranger. Warren went bererk again. Agent Williams was the last witness. I’m not sure if he will start out Monday or if he was finished.

  395. http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/30/trial-offers-moments-of-excitement/

    Rick Smith is a wonderful writer.

  396. Here’s the jury question that Walpole had to keep reading when he questioned the jury.

    “Do you have an opinion in a man having more than one wife in a religion revealed from heaven by God’s own word through a prophet in that religious organization to govern their lives in pure and holy ways by continued revelation from God through a prophet to guide their lives in ways of pure religious motive and practice?”

    Matthew Waller posted it in a story on GoSanAngelo.com

  397. Why would bigamy have any meaning in this trial about sexual assault of children?

  398. “At last, said Brooke Adams, a Tribune reporter who covered polygamy for years, ‘we can hear him as he is.’”

    That was in an earlier version of the SLT article on today’s episode of Warren’s World.

    “At last”?

    Nothing Warren has done during this round surprises me.

    Brooke’s comment astounds me.

    Can I get an “Amen?”

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52288100-78/jeffs-child-prosecutors-sacred.html.csp?page=3

    texastwist said this on July 29, 2011 at 7:14 PM

    Looks like Brooke Adams “at last” realized what a hypocritical bimbo she is and got Lindsey Whitehurst to remove the comment.

    Amen

  399. Who knows anon.

    The 1st 3 were:
    1. Do you know Becky/Rebecca Musser?
    2. Do you have an opinion about plural marriage?
    3. Do you have an opinion about what happened at the YFZ ranch in April 2008?

    These were asked of each person during the individual questioning of jury selection.

  400. I’ll ask Lindsey about it. From talking to Lindsey at the trial, she’s no apologist for the FLDS.

  401. Flora needs to STFU. Going on Dr. Drew talking about a sex tape she has never heard, saying that Priesthood men stood around watching the consummation. When she knows what she is talking about then she can talk.

    Anonymous said this on July 29, 2011 at 9:05 PM

    That’s just typical Flora BS – flapping her jaws and mouthing off about stuff she claims to be an expert on, yet knows nothing about. You’re right Anon, she really does need to STFU. But, she won’t.

  402. I did find out that he had a secret vault tucked behind a bookcase room in his residence which was known as “the Big House” at the YFZ.

    WarrenTrialWatcher said this on July 29, 2011 at 10:58 PM

    It’s reassuring to know that Warren will feel right at home calling his new upcoming home in Huntsville “the Big House.” Lucky Warren, he gets to go from one “Big House” to another. Except the new “Big House” won’t have a secret vault tucked behind a bookcase.

    But, Warren might make friends with a cell-wandering rat who hides behind the toilet that hangs on the wall at the end of his cell.

  403. Then we all got another surprise: A proclamation from God. He opened a white envelope and read from a paper in a loud voice. “I, the Lord God of heaven call upon the court to now cease this prosecution against my pure holy way. Let it stop now! To continue to be a persecution against my church, I will wrest power from you. I am God overall that speaketh. I shall judge you. I shall let all people know of your unjust way. I shall send a scourge on the counties of prosecutorial zeal to be humbled by sickness and death. Let this cease lest you bring forth an eternal power of judgment upon your own lives.” Here, he put down his paper. “This being instructed by my God.”

    “He opened a white envelope and read from a paper in a loud voice.” Since when has God put his proclamations in a white envelope? Did God send his proclamation to Warren via the US Postal Service? How much was the postage stamp from heaven to San Angelo? What did God’s postage stamp look like? Wouldn’t God Tweet these days instead, for more efficiency?

  404. I’ll ask Lindsey about it. From talking to Lindsey at the trial, she’s no apologist for the FLDS.

    WarrenTrialWatcher said this on July 30, 2011 at 11:17 PM

    Good to hear WTW. There is a new decade dawning and polygamy continues to proliferate and expand in Utah. Utah’s own attorney general is now sweeping it under the rug.

    It would be refreshing to have the Salt Lake Tribune newspaper again discuss the truth and include the bad things happening in polygamy like they did many decades ago (years before Brooke Adams took over this topic and spun it into something of her own), because the LDS church-owned Deseret News and KSL-TV wont be able to do it without the approval of the prophet – the other guy… not Warren.

  405. Haven’t posted in a while but I try to drop in now and then and catch up on reading. I’ve been keeping HLN on while I’m working because they do frequent updates and in the afternoon (4:00 p.m. I think) they have an hour-long InSession program about the trial. Wish I could be in that courtroom!

    @Miele – glad to see you are still successfully suing yourself and answering yourself nothing. Not an easy feat! 🙂

  406. http://www.azcentral.com/photo/News/Other/19629#phototop

    A photo pictorial

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/07/31/20110731colorado-city-flds-church-influence.html

    and news story.

  407. Was it Peg McEntee that printed Brooke Adams’ dingaling statement, or Lindsey?

  408. Well I have reflected upon this prophets words and one thing that I am reflecting upon are felony statutes and the fact that there are gradients/degrees by which the laws adjudge the seriousness of various crimes. In Texas the aggravated sexual assault is a particularly heinous crime against an innocent person (minor) and the punishment is the strongest and longest for very good purposes to protect the more vulnerable that are preyed upon by the more wicked in our society. Judging from what Warren S. Jeffs terms as “sacred”, I would say that this aggravated statute is, also, an attempt to distinguish something of greater value, needing more protection and higher consequences if broken. It isn’t termed a “sacred” law but rather a high felony and it’s consequences for being broken is to extract a bigger punishment upon the perpetrator of this felony. So aggravated sexual assault is given the first degree in punishment and the greater term of imprisonment against the criminal that would dare to break this statute. Describing a heinous felony as a ‘holy way’ parts company with me and this unrepentant outlaw. The fact that Warren S. Jeffs was committing these acts while being a supposed minister makes his acts particularly sinister and evil crime.

  409. Flora needs to STFU. Going on Dr. Drew talking about a sex tape she has never heard, saying that Priesthood men stood around watching the consummation. When she knows what she is talking about then she can talk.
    Anonymous said this on July 29, 2011 at 9:05 PM
    That’s just typical Flora BS – flapping her jaws and mouthing off about stuff she claims to be an expert on, yet knows nothing about. You’re right Anon, she really does need to STFU. But, she won’t.

    ………………………………

    This is why Flora Jessop carries a gun – too many people want her silenced.

  410. I’d be very interested in hearing whether this group thinks it is possible to create a law that would outlaw the kind of general child exploitation that is occurring in the FLDS, without infringing on religious freedom (and the right to raise one’s children according to one’s beliefs) in general.

    There is a lot of talk about legalizing or decriminalizing polygamy. OK, but doesn’t that make it easier for a man to marry 10 wives, have 70 kids – and create his own little fiefdom? Even if the kids are not sexually exploited (although the risk of it skyrockets in a closed, controlled group), is it right for children to be raised from infancy to believe that the world outside their family is evil, that their survival depends on giving total control over their lives to one person – and that they will never have the right to a decent education, to choose their own spouse, choose their profession, home – anything. WSJ has proven that *freedom* is a farce if you can isolate and control a child from birth – and convince them they will die if they disobey.

    We are understandably focused on the felonies. What about the rest of it?
    I say this as a former homeschooler on a small farm who would fiercely resist government interference in my right to raise my kids as I see fit. The difference is, that my goal has been to raise, happy, healthy, kids who were prepared to live independent, productive lives, pursuing their own dreams. I have a son at West Point and two who are likely to have equally strong options as they leave home to start their own lives. I did not raise undereducated, uncompensated laborers whose entire lives and futures are at the mercy of a single man.

    I don’t know what that sort of law would look like – but it just can’t be right for us to stand by and allow adults to deny children any chance at a free and independent life – just because their religion dictates they should do so. This isn’t just teaching your children in accordance with your beliefs. It is convincing them from birth that they will die (physically or spiritually) if they don’t surrender total control of themselves – forever.

    This is very, very wrong.

  411. jerrie, I like reading your words and thoughts. The British Columbia, Canada Counselor Jones, termed it that the polygamist culture allows the group to consume their young. I liken the children aswothout having chosen to be a fierce follower, they were born into a radicalized system that was not of their making nor choosing. That polygamist system claims the children as property to be treated in whatever fashion that best enhances the needs of the prophet, priesthood and church. This belief then denies the inherent right of self-determination, individual freedoms, denial of informed consent and power of choice (not choices that are pre-selected by the church, priesthood or prophet, either). These polygamist values are perpetuated by an adnerence to theological constraints and not democratic ideales. This subversion of equality and individual rights needs to be redressed to defend the children from being ‘consumed’, as Counselor Jones has stated.

  412. jerrie, I can’t speak to creating “a law that would outlaw the kind of general child exploitation that is occurring in the FLDS, without infringing on religious freedom (and the right to raise one’s children according to one’s beliefs) in general.” That would take some research on the current laws already on the books — some of which are not being upheld nor prosecuted. Such creation is better left to legal and legislative minds than mine.

    Where to go with that would be for people like us to pushsuch minds into action. A few have tried, but I’m sure it would take a much larger ground swell.

    Everything else you’ve said is well very stated. I couldn’t have said it better. Kudos!

  413. I’ve thought a bit about this…. legalization or no the issue is education of children and the options you are giving them by that kind of education.
    I think that home schooling should be allowed but much more regulated with yearly state exams that are taken off site with other home schoolers, and with site visits….
    If we don’t do something to regularize the homeschooling we are going to end up with all of these enclaves …

    This is actually a tricky legal issue, I was informed by an ethics philosopher that the Amish contested state laws on education and work restrictions being required to 18 years on the basis that it would completely alter the religious experience of their young and they won, which totally freaked me out.

  414. I think that, like warren, flora believes everything she says. Both are delusional!!!IMO

  415. That should read (like warren believes what he says)

  416. Anon E. Mouse, I don’t want to shut Flora up, I just want her to tell the truth without exaggeration. The truth is bad enough, there is no need to embellish it.

    As for the gun, she’d better have a conceal/carry permit in Texas and she’d better not try to carry it into the courthouse. They frown on that sort of stuff.

  417. They have tried to regulate the homeschool stuff here in Texas, but there is a big group that keeps getting off the agenda.

  418. I have zero legal training. I may be way off base on the following, but by opening the discussion, as E.Texas said, maybe qualified, legal minds can find an answer.

    Can we define a set of beliefs that involve total surrender of one’s choices, assets and body to a single person or group as a coercive group (or some better term) ? Part of the definition is that and that the group enforces that total surrender through intimidation, threat of personal loss of home, assets and livelihood?

    CAJim said it much better than I can: “This belief then denies the inherent right of self-determination, individual freedoms, denial of informed consent and power of choice (not choices that are pre-selected by the church, priesthood or prophet, either).”

    Once you have the definition, you can start defining boundaries around it. Adults can choose to join this group, but must have a safe path out of it. Children can not be raised in this environment because it is inherently abusive – through its denial of the child’s right to self-determination.

  419. As far as regulating homeschooling, I have no problem with requiring homeschooled kids to be tested annually and meet minimum standards. I think that can be helpful. (I’m dubious about the value of site visits. My “classroom” wasn’t much to look at. It was my kitchen table, but my kids received an excellent education.)

    I don’t think regulating homeschooling comes close to solving the problem though. It would help ensure kids stayed in school and learned basic skills. It is probably a good thing to do on its own merits. However, it would not cut to the heart of the issue and ensure every child’s right to genuine self-determination.

  420. So let’s start a pool (no money involved) to pick what time Warren will get thrown out of the courtroom tomorrow. Use 15 minute increments.

    I’m taking 10:30 and 10:45 and 11:00 are also taken.

    If you post as an anon, make up some name or initials please because having 14 anons on the paper will be a bit of a challenge.

  421. Couple of problems with the FLDS version is the tenet that women and children are outright property, this to me seems to violate the 14th Amendment. Note this amendment was legislated into existence after the ownership tenet has been professed. We can’t abide varietal slavery in the church that we don’t allow in the town square. Pre-determination of a womans role to be scripturally defined, again, runs counter to the “Bill of Rights”. The Courts have ruled upon ‘teen emanciation’ prior to full fledged adulthood, which touches upon some of this thinking. Basically, civil rights seem to have been impaired/denied based upon some professed belief(s). If, ” Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness have a elevated protection, then religious teachings to the contrary are at odds with these democratic ideales. The question is then are these inherent rights of all citizens or only those, by happenchance, were not born into a fanatical religious sect?
    The whole aspect of the FLDS shunning seems, to me, to be condoned abandonment and endangerment under the guise of a religious tenet.

  422. Welcome, Jerrie!

    PT, put me down for noon. It should depend on how many revelations the lord put forth through his faithful servant this weekend.

  423. PT–is 10 am taken? I want it…I don’t think he will last long tomorrow…he’s had to whole weekend to do whatever it is he does…so…10 is my time…

  424. oops…I meant to say he has had the whole weekend to do whatever it is he does…sorry about that…

  425. I’ll be generous, I will say 1:30. I think the judge will give him til after the lunch break.

  426. I don’t think he will get past 9:45.

  427. Got everyone down to Ruthie’s girl.

  428. I think the judge will give him stern warnings in the beginning. He might be silent until the afternoon.

  429. Excellent Mike Watkiss article on media behavior as relates to Warren jeffs trial:

    http://www.azfamily.com/community/blogs/mike-watkiss/The-Media-Is-Guilty-126451953.html

  430. I think he might make it until the Temple Bed is shown, then he’ll blow a gasket.

  431. Mark me down for 10:30am

  432. His head may explode, at any moment, with as the new evidence comes in. I wanna hear his explanation for the bed! It’s gotta be a humdinger!
    I wonder if he even LET his previous attorney confer with him [as the judge ordered/suggested] of if he feels he needs no outside council, as the courtroom walls will fall, the roof fly away, and little angels will come and ferry him back to YFZ. [Are angels allowed to touch him? Or does god send a new Caddy Escalade with wings?]

  433. tee-hee…I forgot about the Temple bed…yup…his head will spin.

    I just can’t imagine what will happen when they play “the tape.”…..gag!!!

  434. I’m on for 10:15….and I’m not even a gamblin’ girl

  435. Actually–the Judge can’t let him go into his preaching mode day after day…if so…this trial would go until Christmas…

  436. Watkiss is my new hero.

  437. I’ll take 9:52.41 AM. But I think he’ll only get a time out.

  438. Bib 10:30 is already taken. You can have 9:30 or 11:15, 11:30 or 11:45

  439. Miele, gotcha down.

  440. Oakie Dokie PT. Thanks.

    Seriously – I feel sorry for anyone in that Courtroom when they play that tape. Sociopaths are not exactly known for their impulse control. (Duh. Now I have to sue me for stating the obvious. Hi Connie!)

    Judge Walther doesn’t deserve this nonsense.

    The rest of you keep your heads down, and I’ll say a prayer for y’all.

  441. I just saw a great news program on CNN…I did not know it was going to be on…just found it by accident….

    I am lovin’ all this news coverage….

  442. I know this is impossible, but wouldn’t it be nice to send Judge Walther to a nice spa, for a week, after the trial to unwind and the release some of this from her head. This ^%$# has to impact her daily life, just thinking about the loon in the court and the evidence to come.
    I’ll take any open spot on the poll, if any are free. Just plug me in any open spot.

  443. Tomorrow is gonna be a great day. So many will be in the Courtroom to watch his antics and Lindsay, Matt and Katy will tweet about it for all those not in the Courtroom.

  444. @Miele You should plead nolo contendere to stating the obvious. 🙂

    @mc1199 I’d contribute to a fund to send Judge Walther to a spa post-trial. I can’t imagine how she puts up with some of the nonsense.

  445. Imagine, Jeffs thinking his version of sharia, his fatwas, has any likelihood of affecting anyone of us, those in the courtroom, or considering the big FLDS fatwa sucker he mailed to the US President threatening America.

  446. My husband would like to claim 11:30 as the throwing out golden hour. I’m sure he is tired of hearing me go on about how crazy has come to court in Texas.

  447. Got him down pathgirl.

  448. 9:00, 9:15, 9:30, 11:15, 11:45, 12:15, 12:30, 12:45, 1:00, 1:15 and everything 2:00 and later are still available. I left in the noon stuff because on Friday she didn’t take a lunch break until 1:15. It all depends on how the witnesses go and when is a good breaking point.

  449. I’ll take the 2:00 slot, although I don’t think he’ll last that long.

  450. I’ll take 12:30 😀

  451. I’m getting the feeling he really hasnt reviewed any of the evidence, its too depressing for him – and it may be why he fires his attorneys, when they attempt to review with him he comes unglued and gives them a speech about how bitchen he is and how sacred all the stuff is that they busted him with.

    Today should be interesting!

    I will take 11:45 figuring he will blow his gasket by lunch.

    But ~~~ a lot of it depends on which evidence is presented when.

  452. Here’s an opinion piece from SLTrib on subject of Warren Jeffs behavior in court and why it may be more aimed at the FLDS membership, rather than the court & jury.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52299775-78/jeffs-trial-defense-flds.html.csp

    By stating that evidence is scared and holy maybe coded message to FLDS faithful not to listen or believe what they hear in media reports IMO.

  453. I’ll take 11:15 am.

  454. Put me down for 1:45 PM, please – perhaps he’ll have a revelation over his lukewarm jailhouse bologna sandwich.

    (I actually think WTW has it mostly right – his head will implode on either the temple bed or the audiotape of the “heavenly session”.)

  455. Ugh, that was me – forgot to sign my ‘name’ dammit.

    Put me down for 1:45 PM, please – perhaps he’ll have a revelation over his lukewarm jailhouse bologna sandwich.

    (I actually think WTW has it mostly right – his head will implode on either the temple bed or the audiotape of the “heavenly session”.)

  456. Bologna Anon, someone already has 1:45, you can have 1:15 or 2:15 which are the closest I have to your original time.

    Got everyone else so far.

  457. That’s OK so-ex-mo, I put you down and bologna anon.

    As for the story in the Trib, I think it might be right on. It would totally explain why Lindsey Barlow and John C. Wayman sat outside the courtroom on a bench.

  458. Maybe he was trying to sell the fairy tale to himself as much as the rest of the Church.

    Understandably this is the party line he always gives them, they arent allowed any media access… So when he makes his daily phone call he can brag about how he told everyone off.

    The smart ones will realize his goose is cooked. They still have a few smart ones, dont they?

  459. “BAH,Bahhh…”. Amen.

  460. Does anyone know the normal recourse against an obstinate defense that is violating the Courtroom decorum. Do they get sequestered into another room, forced to accept designated counsel or get gagged’n’bound within the Courtroom? I am not sure what the viable optioons are for this continued misbehavior.

  461. I don’t think he will cave today,,, He going to continue objecting with each piece of evidence presented.. Of course I think the Judge will deny him to talk if he can’t articulate why he is objecting,, and even maybe make him allow his defense lawyers back…. But I don’t think it will happen today… Unless he plays SICK or something, trying to delay the trial,, at that point I think Judge Walthers will get pissed

  462. OMG! Jeffs walks in the courtroom this morning,, and states he wants to make a motion to recuse Judge Walther from this case!!! AGAIN!! For God’s sake this is getting ridiculus,, this is the Fourth time this shit has happened

  463. Deputydog…what network are you watching??? I have been on–cnn–HLN–In session and have heard nothing???

  464. jobo – probably watching twitter or is there. here are the tweets

    natecarlisle Nate Carlisle
    Lyle Jeffs, brother to #WarrenJeffs, was in court today for first time since trial started.
    4 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply »

    natecarlisle Nate Carlisle
    No indication when #WarrenJeffs trial resumes, but previous efforts to remove Judge Walther from case have failed. @sltrib
    7 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply »

    natecarlisle Nate Carlisle
    Recess in #WarrenJeffs trial. He filed another motion to remove Judge Walter. She is referring it to another judge for consideration.
    10 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply »
    juryconsult Mary Griffitts

    No one died this weekend on the prosecution side…Texas trial to resume for #WarrenJeffs (@deseretnews) http://t.co/62BguJk
    11 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply »

    gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    Lyle Jeffs, an FLDS bishop, is in court #warrenjeffs
    12 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply »

    gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    Flora Jessop is at #warrenjeffs trial, she is a former FLDS member, said what Jeffs says is “coded”
    13 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply » gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    #warrenjeffs just filed a third motion for recusal

  465. Thanks watergirl…..will check this out…???

    Hey–can we start a new thread?? this one is getting BIG??

    maybe jeffs trial–part 2–or something???

  466. He wants to recuse a judge who sounds like she has been bending over backward for him. Well now, why are we surprised? Unkidub, in his cramped little perception of life, had Jesus Christ recused a long time ago, …..and has, sadly, blasphemously, and ludicrously, been trying to take His place ever since.

  467. Nice words Gretchen.

  468. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52302848-78/jeffs-trial-judge-motion.html.csp

  469. gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    #warrenjeffs judge will not step down, said she checked with another Judge and looked at supreme Court law
    1 minute ago

    http://twitter.com/#!/search/%23warrenjeffs

  470. Guess he got tired of waiting for god to strike the judge & prosecution down and decided to move into legal briefs…. ass hamster

  471. He’s attempting a filibuster.

  472. The actual motion to recuse is up at
    http://media.gosanangelo.com/media/static/FLDS_Jeffs_recusal_motion_0801.pdf

    Sorry, don’t know how to make stuff clickable!

  473. Oh! Hey, I guess “I” am smarter than I thought….

  474. New thread please – I’m restricted to my hand-held right now.

  475. Im watching In Session they are talking all about it right now

  476. In fact,, the reporter speaking on In Session right now,,, actually went to colorado City last weekend, and talked to a few people who have left FLDS but still live there

  477. The actual motion to recuse is up at
    http://media.gosanangelo.com/media/static/FLDS_Jeffs_recusal_motion_0801.pdf

    Sorry, don’t know how to make stuff clickable!

    SBunne said this on August 1, 2011 at 11:47 AM

    The link is click able, after reading the writings of Jeffs, IMO it would appear ole Jeffs is trying really hard for a one way trip the the state mental hospital in Vernon,Texas. Perhaps Jeffs is crazy like a fox, instead of singing his way to the lunatic asylum, he’s trying to write his way there.
    Yes, it’s true that Warren Jeffs & Brian David Mitchell are truly birds of a feather, two sides of the same coin.

  478. They’re now hearing testimony on the DNA evidence. From Twitter —

    @gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    #warrenjeffs more than 99 percent probability of being the father, DNA expert said

  479. Is he objecting to that yet?

    He can’t keep going on saying religous crap for his objections….he must object on grounds of evidence.

  480. Thanks, A Texan.

    Gotta say it’s the first time I’ve ever seen a Revelation from God in a motion.

  481. Im insulted that warren jeffs included this in his motion to recuse Judge Walthers

    In Exhibit A, attached to the motion, Jeffs recounts another revelation he claims to have received July 28, paragraph 21 and 22 of which reads, “Let also Barbara Walthers (sic) be of a humbling to know I have sent a crippling disease upon her which shall take her life soon.” … “She is no longer to be of a respect to peers.”

    (Everyone knows she has polio as a child, and wears calipers) for him to spew such crap, im totally disgusted and offended)

  482. I have a reveleation from God myself,,, that warren jeffs will be found guilty, and hang by his balls from the ceiling of a prison!!!

  483. I liked this tweet:

    Twalra TwalRa
    Why is it the God spoke to prophets in old days but now the deranged are the recipients of his commands #WarrenJeffs

  484. I didnt know she had polio….

    I now join the ranks of the even more disgusted and offended.

  485. Deputydog, don’t mistake “balls” for stupidity.

  486. The repeated attempts to recuse Judge Walther is based upon a belief system that defines ‘bias’ as anything that does not conform to the prophets expressed desires/wishes. Failure to comply then constitutes willful pesecution and wicked or evil behavior for which the Heavenly Father can be counted upon to remedy or enact a viable solution. No prophecy made then transpires, the claimed wicked/evil personages are unharmed and the prophet simply moves onto to another set of diatribes and unfounded claims searching within the ‘Law of Averages’ that at some point at least one of his false claims has to transpire proving him to be who he solely claims that he is the ‘Mouthpiece’, his predicitons are numerous to increase his odds at an eventual claim might actually transpire. What a ridiculous example of a ‘false prophet’ trying to proclaim his flawed claims upon his FLDS Church sheeple. He didn’t remain invisible, he hasn’t been miraculously freed, he isn’t returning to his YFZ mansion, he has no Heaven sent authority and he’s only displaying a trumped up bravado for his astray FLDS flock.

  487. UGH!! What a creep…yes…add me to the list of “more disgusted!”….

    mad bill is always making fun of the judge–about her handicap….horrible…just horrible….

  488. I would be fascinated to know how much he actually believes of this stuff. Sure, he is highly manipulative, narcissistic, etc., but why threaten the judge? That doesn’t sound like playing to his followers – because, unless, she actually gets sick or dies, nothing will come of it.

    Is it that this sort of garbage has always worked for him in his closed, controlled world – and he just can’t get his head around the fact the world he thinks he has been living in is truly just a fantasy? It only seemed real because the other characters also believed in it and played along.

    It looks like he is trying to bring the court under his thrall – without realizing that he is acting out his part in the wrong play, in an entirely different theater. No wonder that darn supporting cast keeps flubbing their lines!

    Truly bizarre. And fascinating. And tragic.

  489. Finally, the judge said he must quit his preaching. The following is concering his objections to the DNA evidence

    “Jeffs has continued to object as evidence is offered for admission, although with fewer words, as 51st District Judge Barbara Walther has insisted he object only on legal grounds and not give speeches”

    http://m.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/aug/01/jeffs-calls-third-time-for-walthers-removal/

    Apologies if it’s been posted before….

  490. It must be hard for those in court not to bust out laughing. I couldn’t hold it in if I was there. Judge must have to curl ther toes to not show any emotion. Maybe after all these years she has gotten use to wacko’s before the court.

  491. >>> In response Judge Walther said that Warren Jeffs would be born a dork, and he would be fugly and his mother would always dress him funny.

    ——-

    As to a defendant (Prophet -man of God?) writing these things to a Judge overseeing his crimes, well thats suicidal, but hey consider the source.

    Now EVERYBODY is going to hate him – and his sheeple should be fully ashamed.

  492. But the sheeple won’t know half of whats going on.

    Wish to god I could speak to a cricker right now to understand what they know and how they feel.

    I shall try tonight to talk to my uncle (in-law) who is there and of course post my findngs here.

  493. Dont kid yourself,, they have computers,, not so sure they don’t have television now, but they do have computers, and PHONES, lots of Phones, and they can text.. So you bet they know all know whats going on…

    And an interview was done last weekend in colorado city,, where Beth Karas from IN Session interviewed several people including a Chatwin,, and yes they know whats going on.. She even talked or tried to talk to a group of Flds women, who immediately told her, Warren Jeffs is Innocent, and if there are two girls saying Jeff abused them they are LYING????? You see, these were grown women,, which tells me these women will LIE,, even when it comes to their children and sexual assualt

  494. and if there are two girls saying Jeff abused them they are LYING?????
    Deputydog1 said this on August 1, 2011 at 1:55 PM

    Well, of course they were NOT abused in their mind. He bestowed a great honor on those two girls! The poor girls didn’t know it was wrong so it wasn’t abuse it was the greatest day of their life. Press not use to them will have a hard time getting anywhere with the way they word their questions.

  495. Well of course they know he’s being tried.

    I mean to say they don’t know all the evidence put forward and they will all be told a warped version of the events.

    Such as he’s a martyr. Or this is proof of the last days, we were told this unjust persecution would happen. Or the lone man of god stood up to the courtroom of damned gentiles or blah blah blah.

    It’s going to be twisted one way or another and you can bet the sheeple wont be given a true run down of the events.

  496. Jerrie,

    Warren is a sociopath.

    When cornered, they lash out. Almost always at the person in a position of authority.

    He wishes Judge Walther would hold him in contempt.

    That’s why he’s attacking her personally. She’s remaining centered and not letting him knock her off her game – so to speak.

    Right now he’s not thinking about his trial or the evidence. He’s thinking about another way to take a run at her.

    Look for him to escalate the behavior.

  497. Bet you Warren has send his people his motions! They might be smiling now, grateful how he defends their imagined rights under the US legal system. NOT one word in any of his ramblings about what he really is accused of. Sexual assault of young girls.

  498. From Twitter —

    @natecarlisle Jurors heard testimony re inside of #FLDS temple but no photos. FLDS believe temple sacred. Would be upset if photos shown. #WarrenJeffs

    ——————
    Well I, for one, will be VERY upset if the photo of that temple bed is not shown. Maybe they’re saving it for when they play the audio of him consummating his “marriage” (barf) to a 12-year-old.

  499. Please continue on Trial Watch #2

    — Admin

    https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2011/08/01/the-trial-youve-all-been-waiting-for-warren-jeffs-2-2/

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