General Discussion #59

Continued from General Discussion #58.

One week out from the start of Warren’s Texas trial for felony sexual assault of a child and sexual assault of a trial. Hearing on July 18 and July 20 with jury selection set to begin July 25.

Soon we will have another shaved head to add to the picture.

FLDS Mugshot wall of shame

FLDS Mugshot Wall of Shame

Photo credit goes to HDNet.

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on July 17, 2011.

423 Responses to “General Discussion #59”

  1. Wow… do all Texas prisoners have to have their heads shaved?

  2. I’m not sure if they have to be “shaved”, but they have to be very, very short.

  3. RECIDIVISM…..how many of these convicts can be expected to return to prison after their inaugural sentences have been served out? Remember, no remorse, no recanting of their actions and no appeal to the Judges for leniency. Willie R. “Thug” Jessop, now an apostate and no longer spokesperson for nthe FLDS Church, had promised and proclaimed a fundamental shift in their practices and propensity toward wedlocks. These mug shots now, however, stand as stark evidence in contrast to Willie’s proclamation. The reality is there is no capitulation, no formal church decree/maifesto and continued acts of defiance are in evidence for those looking for a signal or new interactions. Like how are these convicts looked upon by their FLDS Church and leadership?The UEP Trust battle continues, the recent purge of 30 Priesthood men (none for making or arranging ‘Child Bride’ sealings) and then we have the Prophet Warren S. Jeffs pending trial, should we expect a signal or new reactions to these judicial proceedings. Will we see more calculated defiances or reconcilation to some degree to rcognize the felony counts?

    I will be looking for footprints that match the rhetoric and I am tired of the duplicity, lies and attack upon our system of Justice.

  4. I just watched the HD net report – I see Yehaa’s friend’s video and this blog play a role. Go FLDS Texas!!!

  5. Cal JIm (I think?) from 58 – I get your point. That if you do not question the very fundamentals of polygamy then the driving force to control girls is not understood… so to state that the issue is “only” one man rule is to side step a major issue of numbers – particularly if there is no active recruitment of women into polygmay

  6. I was just checking the Washington County mug shots and there was a bunch of gentlemen from Mexico who were picked up and charged with growing marijuana.

  7. BARLOW, VICKIE JEAN
    Birth Date: 05/14/79
    Address : 110 W FIELD AVE; 6, Hildale, UT
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    00:27:00 07/15/11 Sparks, Sean T WCSO

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    WARRANT-CASH WARRANT-CASH ONLY 3F 5DIS 10000.00 [No Payments Made]

  8. so to state that the issue is “only” one man rule is to side step a major issue of numbers – particularly if there is no active recruitment of women into polygmay.

    Even if.. there was a merge or “recruitment” it still doesn’t take the many issues of neglect/mental abuse.

    Look at Sara Hammons mother. Kaziah May Hancock.

    The abuses and neglect started long before any one man rule. It just got worse.

  9. CAJim- great post and I agree.

  10. hellohellogoodbye said: particularly if there is no active recruitment of women into polygmay….

    I think it would be [sadly] interesting to see just what kind of woman would step forward, if recruitment [for this particular FLDS sect] were an option. How badly damaged must one’s psyche be to elect to live like this.

  11. I’m still reading “Answer Them Nothing”. I’d forgotten some of the shenannigans pulled by this group. Just the [legal] fraud amounts are staggering! They really take organized crime to a whole new level! And both Utah and Arizona made it so easy for them! Amazing.

  12. I have just ordered the book from Amazon. The local Hastings was supposed to have it for me, but they said it wasn’t out yet. Boy are they slow.

    I should have it next week, just as I’m finishing up Irene Spencer’s first book. I ordered Irene’s 2nd book when I ordered the “Answer them Nothing” book.

  13. Wow what a crowd in that picture!

    Cruising the Cell-o-Steel Kingdom with that Metro Sexual hairstyle.

    Warren, you da Prophet!

  14. Wonder if they are still proclaiming that from their cells.

    Maybe I should print out that picture and take it with me to the hearing tomorrow and/or Wednesday and casually put it where Warren can see it.

  15. Good idea! Those flds homies need to see whats in store.

    No more of that hillbilly redneck look, they are in the big city now!

    And I bet they have some stories. They look like they are enjoying the food, do they have Mexican night?

  16. Do you think the hearing is “on” ? Warren doesn’t have a lawyer and I thought Walther was on vacation?

  17. The hearing tomorrow is on. Judge Hyde is hearing another Motion to Recuse Judge Walther. As for whether or not Warren has an attorney, Kearney hasn’t been dismissed as of Friday afternoon. I’m sure the Judge will be back by Wednesday at 2:00 (if she isn’t back already) because this final pretrial is something she set.

    I guess there will be some ruling on whether or not In Session can televise the trial.

  18. Proud Texan is that for real? In Session really is trying to get the cameras inside? Real InSession people? Court tv news reporters? That would be super awesome if they did. I called court tv/InSessions home for 7 years. Long time.

    Do you know who would be showing up? If they come, I bet Nancy Grace will talk about it all. And Anderson Cooper.

    Think they will bring JohnT. in to cover it?

    I don’t even care if I see Warren. I just really want to see the court stuff.

    Boy everybody will be there. InSession, Fox News ( I am sure Ben will go) ABC. Salt Lake Tribune and I bet Mike Watkiss will be there. Matt Waller, Randy and Kathy, Concho Valley Everybody.

    If they all get to go does anyone know how to save this on you tube or something so I can hit play and pause and rewind. first time I watch it I know my jaw will hit the floor at least 10 times. My hands will be in the air maybe 5 times. And I will be getting so close to the screen thru out the whole time I know I’ll miss something.

    And then the 2nd time I watch it I will have to figure out what they are saying and look it all up on the internet. I’ll take notes though.

    And then I’ll watch it a 3rd time to see if I missed something.

    I bet I watched those Texas Senate hearings 10 times.

    I really hope they let the cameras in.

    Do you really think they are going to have court? man I hope so. Next step the Feds. 🙂

    I am reaching for Sunshine again.

    After the Feds….we can rest.

  19. Walton, I can’t really answer most of your questions. I figure if In Session is denied televising the event they will set up shop right outside the courthouse and give updates from there. So far Mike Watkiss and Lindsey Whitehurst have said they are probably coming. In Session is the same as CNN, so I doubt Anderson will come. Matt will be there and Kathy. Randy probably not. He’ll stay home and keep Eldorado running.

    As for saving it, your best bet is something like TIVO or a recorder. Heck, I don’t even get the channel that In Session comes on.

    I can’t guarantee that it will go, but I can’t figure out why the final pretrial hearing on Wednesday hasn’t been cancelled if she was going to let Kearney be dismissed and grant a continuance. As far as I can tell, a continuance hasn’t even been requested recently. She denied one at the hearing on June 14.

  20. I also hope TruTV comes to the trial…altho, Nancy Grace is a screaming ninnie at times. The more clear light shone [?] on this subject, the better. If they can take the time to get away from the Casey Anthony debacle, they may be able to educate the rest of the world on the Utah/Ariz/Texas crime syndicate/pedophile ring. I know I’d watch it!
    Walton, have you thought about sending them an email and asking? There may be a spot on their web site to do so. Just thinkin’….

  21. In fact….I just posed the question to In Session…via the TruTV site. Now, will they answer, that is the question!?

  22. Proud Texan is that for real? In Session really is trying to get the cameras inside? Real InSession people? Court tv news reporters? That would be super awesome if they did. I called court tv/InSessions home for 7 years. Long time.
    Do you know who would be showing up? If they come, I bet Nancy Grace will talk about it all. And Anderson Cooper.

    ——————————-

    That will be interesting. Personally I think Nancy Grace is a media whore hoping to become the next Judge Judy, however I can’t but think she will be anti-Warren.

  23. AP story dated today.

    The ecclesiastical head of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is due in court Monday in San Angelo.

    He sought to remove state District Judge Barbara Walther last month, but failed. Jeffs then switched attorneys, and new counsel Emily Detoto will try again.

    Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/7657753.html#ixzz1SRoXF6k9

  24. http://youtu.be/i1elH5Q-0yM Harvey (1950) “Portrait of Elwood and Harvey” Scene (SPOILERS)

    And many have wondered.. is Harvey real? Does he really exist.

    In this clip around the 1:22 area you will see a portrait of Elwood with Harvey standing next to him.

    Well what now? Toto goes into court/calls court and next week or 2 weeks from now some one will set up a meeting to hear from Mr. Hyde who ends up calling in sick so Mr. Jekell will have to step in.

    And with the MOUNTAINS of paperwork that is attatched to the case he will have to call in the help of Mr. McGoo. (the funny little guy with the hat who looks like Wendell)

    This trial isn’t going to take place until after the elections. if at all.

  25. http://eplayer.clipsyndicate.com/cs_api/iframe?pl_id=20010&wpid=9604&page_count=5&tags=CCTVI_NEWS_STATE&windows=1&va_id=2659552&show_title=0&auto_start=0&auto_next=1

    Another Hunsaker story on Wallace Jeffs suit, and the pressure they are trying to give him.

  26. Judge Walther called as witness in hearing to remove her as judge!

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/18/no-headline—jeffs_pretrial/

    Not making this up folks, it’s for real!

  27. uncle warren is Gods true prophet and has the right to rule in every area of the lives of all living. He will prevail if the faith of the preisthood people is strong enough, but he is suffering for us all!!! will prevail if the faith of the preisthood people is strong enough, but he is suffering for us all!!!

  28. Wow Anonymous @ 12:33 pm, your brainwashing worked !

  29. Anonymous of July 18, 2011 at 12:33 PM – you need to stop drinking the kool-aid. Jeffs is an evil man who has no love in his heart. He harms everyone who gets near him.

  30. Hey Anon 12:33, if you really believe Uncle Warren is God’s true prophet, I’ve got some swampland to sell you!

  31. Wait a sec! Who is really suffering, Anon 12:33? For sure not “uncle warren”!! It’s all the folks he’s railroading into prison — and YOU!!

    Oh well, I guess mush-for-brains won’t figure it out.

    BTW, aren’t you worried the thought police are going to catch you touching that keyboard connected to the…. AAACCCKKKK!!!!

  32. Heah, ‘Warrant’ how’s that, “One Man Rulon” thingy working for yeah? Got any idea what you gonna doodoo when your,”Answer Dem Nuthin” leads to your twin guilty verdicts,”GULP”! Who you going to point your prophetic blame-finger at next? Bishop Lyle you better keep a packed suitcase and call cousin Nathaniel Allred to see if he wants to go for a ride into “utter darkness”, so you got some company. We haven’t even reached the trial yet and the ‘rat-line’ is already beginning to sag.

  33. Drive by comment: I’m almost positive that you CANNOT call the judge in the recusal hearing. When I get some time I’ll find the case and report back.

  34. You were Ron, Judge Walther was not ordered to testify, the Judge granted the State’s Motion to Quash the Subpoena.

  35. Another thought for Anon @ 12:33, you’d better open your checkbook wide. Warren just had a hearing with 3 attorneys present. I’m guessing these attorneys probably charge at least $300/hour each. The hearing started at 9 and was over at 4. You do the math and figure out how much you’d better pony up to cover just today’s legal bill.

    On the other hand, since you probably only learned Priesthood math, the answer is 7 hours x $300 = $2100 per attorney. For all 3 attorneys, that’s $6300. I’d recommend not answering the door when Lyle comes by.

  36. Ron, drive by more often please.

  37. Sorry I missed Ron’s drive by – maybe we can convince him to re-open his blog ?

  38. Thank you for the update, PT.

  39. I’m looking forward to Warrens trial like the FLDS look foward to Doomsday!

    I just hope I won’t be disappointed like they continue to be.

  40. Also, any word on what angle the defense is going for?

    Insanity?

    That he really thought he was doing “Gods will”?

    That he grew up that way and didn’t know any different?

  41. I just want to know that the trial will go on as scheduled. Then I will wonder about everything else.

  42. The defense’s strategy right now is to not let it get to trial. They are doing everything in their power to delay it. I mean come on, how many times can you argue the same motion before it becomes a moot point.

    The woman arguing for Warren didn’t even know everything that had been brought up a month ago and had to be continually stopped and told that the point she was trying to make had already been decided. There were at least 3 different times that the State objected to something because it was brought up and decided a month ago. Someone didn’t do their homework!!!

  43. We’d love to have your comments on the blog! Simply use Name/Url, you don’t need a url.

    http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/sister-wives-some-questions-about.html

  44. The only ones who want Judge Walther removed are those who think it is OK to abuse children and those who are paid to defend.

    Stephanie Goodman was attorney for both Abram Harker Jeffs and Keith Dutson Jr. I don’t say she defended them because she didn’t even try to defend either of her clients. As soon as the State rested, there was a short recess and when Court was back in session, the Defense rested. It was that way in each of the cases. I guess it is part of the “Answer Them Nothing” strategy, but after the first couple of trials you’d think they would see that it wasn’t working and offer up something. If you don’t give the jury an alternative to the case presented by the State, what do you expect them to do?

    I keep wondering if this will be the first case to offer a defense or if they will simply rest after the State has presented. Only time will tell.

  45. polyissowrong22, I really don’t know enough about the Browns to comment on anything to do with them. Sorry.

  46. PT, the aloofness of “Answer Them Nothing” is couched upon two rationales one is they are above it all and following the Almighty’s Laws, second is the ‘Gentile’s’ judgments, trials and punishments will be avenged by the Higher Power. They are fanatical in their beliefs. The FLDS Church apologists don’t point to their fervency and zealotry, they hope no one notices their theocratical mindset. The bigamy practices, the sex trafficking across borders and the unrepentent defiance is their viewpoints fully on display. Watch the hardened attitudes, truebeliever’s locksteps and “sheep to slaughter” defense tactics. I am reminded of the Nuremburg trials following WWII, for the fanatics indoctrinated perspective that blinds their outlook and thinking. If you listened closely to the FLDS Church teaching tapes the flawed belief system and abnormal values are openly professed, they believe.

  47. uncle warren is Gods true prophet

    ——————————–

    No, he’s not.

    Pedophilia is not a religion, and God punishes men who have sex with little girls – just ask Tony Alamo and Brian David Mitchell.

  48. Anon @ 12:33, you are gravely, even sinfully mistaken – NO man, “prophet” or not, has the right to rule in any area of my life, much less one who enslaves his followers (for you are truly enslaved) and commits the even graver sin of pedophilia.

    (I’m back, y’all, and looking forward to the trial. Even added a hyphen or two to cut down on the name confusion, heh.)

  49. Oh, and as I read to catch up, way back there three discussions ago I saw someone ask “What other religions keep an arsenal in their barbed-wire compounds?” Although IMO it’s a cult and not a religion, don’t forget Scientology, which slavishly follows the word of one man, teaches that it’s OK to lie to outsiders, and maintains barbed-wire fences with the spikes turned IN around its compounds. It keeps gulags for its recalcitrant followers – I’m surprised ol’ Warren hasn’t thought of that.

  50. If I were Warren Jeffs, I’d want to replace the guy who I put in as President of the FLDS -Wendell Nielsen

    Check

    Replace Bishop of YFZ Merril Jessop

    Check

    Replace errrr excommunicate 63 of my bestest friends forever

    Check

    Replace errrr Fire all my attorneys and take a couple new ones out for a spin

    Check

    Refuse to go to Texas and face Trial

    Check

    Try to change county

    Check

    Try to change Judge

    Check once

    Try to change Judge again

    Check twice

    ————–

    But ya know what? None of this would have been necessary if he had

    CHANGED HIS FLDS MISBEHAVIOR

  51. Here’s an update from San Angelo newspaper on Jeffs hearing:

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/18/no-headline—jeffs_pretrial/

  52. More of Warren’s brand of hypocrisy. He should be chomping at the bit to get this trial going so that he can personally demonstrate his ‘answer them nothing’ MO.

    He is demanding from his (numerous) attorneys every legal stall tactic they can conjure up for him. When they start saying things he doesn’t want to hear and he’s milked them for all they’re worth (apparently not much) he moves on to another one.

    Personally speaking, I think these attorneys get a few whiffs of the offal truth when they sit down with him and actually hear him talk — that is if they haven’t got an offal clue after reading some of the myriad available evidence — and deliberately start saying things he doesn’t want to hear.

    Ultimately attorneys can just smile (smirk?) and walk away from an interesting but malodorous losing case with a tidy little paycheck tucked into their lovely leather briefcases. Not too shabby.

    Not to denigrate the original owner of the moniker, I think of WSJ in jail as “Sitting Bull.” But Mr. Bull, time is running out, isn’t it!

  53. Yep, time for ‘Busters Last Stand’, let’s get out a Bible and swear in some witnesses, lawmen and experts to confirm he was correctly indicted. BillM says he thinks you can indict a cheese sandwich and this Profit is one of the cheesiest hoagies in the deli. Let’s discuss the DNA evidence, the age of the ‘Child Bride’ and the names of the children, next! Then we can move on to the ‘Bad Acts’, the sentencing and discuss the appeal(s) to the higher courts.” Your Honor, I object” to all the time, money and effort wasted upon this sorry excuse for a minister and man of God. Time for evidence, facts and truth and let’s drag this accused sexual assault perpetrator out into the sunshine and see what’s what.

  54. CAJim, they don’t swear on the Bible anymore, just raise your right hand and swear to tell the truth. Yesterday they swore in all the subpoenaed witnesses at one time, so it was a group swear.

  55. Back in the day here out west when they couldn’t find a Bible they used to use the Sears catalog. I love that.

  56. Quote,”We believe in honesty, morality, and purity; but when they[‘Gentiles’] enact tyrannical laws, forbidding us the free exercise of our religion, we cannot submit. God is greater than the United States, and when the Government conflicts with heaven, we will be ranged under the banner of heaven and against the Government” John Taylor – Prophet, Seer and Revelator on 4 January, 1880. This is the backdrop to Warren S. Jeffs axiom of “Answer Them Nothing” he cannot and won’t stand up for what he truly believes and espouses in a US Court for very obvious reasons but don’t think for one minute that Warren and his FLDS Church are not seditious believers in that they are opposed to ‘Gentile’ governance. Their Theocracy is the paramount authority for them but they choose to play the “Lamb Brought to Slaughter” defense in full and genuine defiance to our ,’…enacted tyrannical laws’.

    Let US Judicial Court practices and authority prevail and may Truth and Justice be served for all.

  57. The Emack Bigamy Appeal was listed as “Set for submission on briefs” dated yesterday. The Submission date is 8/8/11. When this happened in Leroy Jessop’s indigent case, the Memorandum Opinion came back the next day.

    The case has been listed as “Case ready to be set” since 5/11/11.

    Not sure what all of this means. Ron, if you are driving by could you chime in please.

  58. Yesterday I made up stuff concerning Harvey Rabbit and Judge Hyde. I honestly didn’t know that Judge Hyde or Attorney Detoto were real people.

    I thought someone was playing games.

    When Warren had Wally for a lawyer at least we saw him in the media. He often spoke to the reporters and many times on video.

    I hope they allow cameras in the courtroom if there is a trial.

    It’s tough being on the outside looking in.

  59. Have a heart Walton, just imagine what it must be like to be on the inside of a cell wondering what’s going on outside? Eighty plural wives whos virtues are being sorely tested, purge after purge to try to keep some semblance of power and the legal bills alone would bleed out most crime syndicates but not the FLDS Church. Talk about being put to the test what about all the Press & Public scrutiny and private information being exposed. What’s a poor prophet to do? Nobody understands you, everybody wants you to answer questions, you can’t make bail and even the supposed direct connection with a Higher Power is for naught.

  60. TC

    “Back in the day here out west when they couldn’t find a Bible they used to use the Sears catalog. I love that.”

    ————-

    If you commit perjury you had to spend $1,000…?

  61. I’m just sitting here waiting for Judge Hyde’s ruling.

  62. I’m hearing “Motion denied” but don’t have a copy of the order yet.

  63. http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/19/jeffs-recusal-request-denied-walther-to-preside/

  64. A copy of the Order is also attached.

  65. Awesome.

  66. Great: let the hearings and trials go forward.

  67. Today, in the Tom Green Courthouse news spread quickly of a wipeout, complete defeat and rumors that Colonel George Headstrong Buster was scene lying prone on the Courtroom floor. His Chief Scout Intoto, a plains warrior and suspected lawyer, was overheard trying to revive her master,”Hhmmm, Kimosabe don’t look at the Great White Judge ‘Raw’ Hyde him big medicene”. Seems the commander’s swoon was said to have occurred when Judge Hyde rolled his eyes and made a menacing motion toward the sprirtual leader. Normally, quite composed and rather undaunted at times Colonel Buster seems to have a mortal fear of trial judges, especially ones that fail to rule favorably. Chief Scout Intoto was able to to arise her client but he seemed too shaken and affraid to open his eyes, his trusted warrior beseeched him to not be affraid, ” Big Black Robe has spoken now you go back to iron box”.

  68. Just reading back over an old story on San Angelo:
    Kearney said he had millions of pages of documents to review, more than 700 alleged bad acts to contend with, 139 witnesses, 13 expert witnesses, 800 probable trial exhibits from the prosecution and a trial that may take four weeks.

    139 witnesses??? really?

  69. I wonder what delay strategy Warren will employ next ? Hmmm

  70. I have been following the events in Tx for several months via this site. Great resource! My concern today is that BillM has posted on his blog names, addresses, phone numbers and personal family details of many people involved in the prosecution of flds criminals. I find this appalling! How much danger does this pose?

  71. Wonder if Bill M has been investigated for these breaches of privacy and making threats. If not, he should be!!

  72. Well the GREAT BIG CONSPIRACY THEORY is that Judge Walther, Texas AG Abbott and his staff, FBI, Texas Rangers, Sheriff Doran and his staff, CPS, US Department of Justice, Governor Perry and his staff are all in full co-operation and coordinating a orchestrated plan to try, convict and incarcerate Prophet Warren Steed Jeffs. Of course, all that will really be needed/used is some DNA evidence, two ‘Child Brides’ and children born as a result, fairly simple and straight forward evidence and proofs, really. The more outrageous the claims, the more bellicose the arguments and monetary expenditure to proclaim innocence the more suspect I become.
    The persecution is made up and the perversion of the facts and evidence are quite bona-fided.

  73. Princess, BM is just posting and taking credit for stuff done by anti-government hackers. Google that first guy’s name and you’ll see all kinds of stuff.

  74. BLACK, SPENCER WAYNE
    Birth Date: 09/18/66
    Address : 130 W BREANNE COURT, Colorado City, AZ
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    22:32:56 07/18/11 Hall, Travis HCPD

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    WARRANT-CASH WARRANT-CASH ONLY BM WCJ7 989.00 989.00
    53-3-227 DL DENIED-NON DRUG/AL CM WCJ3 300.00 300.00

  75. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Anti-Security

    Here’s the group BM copied his information from. He didn’t do it, he can’t find his way out of a wet paper bag. Someone has to do it for him and then he’ll take credit for it.

  76. Thank you for answering. My concern is for the safety of those in charge of prosecuting a “belief” system ingrained with paranoia and the ability to justify causing grave harm to those they see as “the enemy”. I’ve watched similar events unfold in my home state. I understand that Bill M represents a load of b***, but I worry about those who choose to follow his directives to “pay a visit” to the people he outs on his blog. This is so irresponsible on his part. Is there anything in the law regarding posting of personal details pertaining to LE?

  77. Is there anywhere we can watch the trial on TV? Is TruTV’s In Session going to air it?

  78. I don’t think there are many people dumb enough to “pay a visit” to a sitting District Court Judge.

  79. I imagine you are correct PT. It only takes one idiot, believing they are administering justice, to create a tragedy. We’ve all seen this before in other settings. Humor me, and join me in a prayer for the safety of all those involved in shining a light on this destructive group. This includes the brave Ex-crackers willing to expose themselves in court. I admire them all.

  80. I imagine you are correct PT. It only takes one idiot, believing they are administering justice, to create a tragedy. We’ve all seen this before in other settings. Humor me, and join me in a prayer for the safety of all those involved in shining a light on this destructive group. This includes the brave ex-crickers willing to expose themselves in court. I admire them all.

  81. Sorry for the duplicate. I was attempting to override my stupid spell-correct which insists that “cricker” really should be cracker. Maybe it knows better than I do?

  82. When is the Wallace VS Warren and Lyle thing going to court?

    Since Warren is named as a defendent will he have to show?

    What about Lyle?

    If the court rules in favor of Wallace, who will enforce the ruling? Colorado City cops?

    What if the family gets sent away to another “haven”??

  83. One things for sure that Warren might be the easiest one to serve.

  84. Welcome, Princess!

  85. HA

    bill medslacking is trying to fling some fake threats again eh?

    His temper tantrums on the SLTRIB were shortlived, he couldnt keep it on topic and had to act tough and attack every lady, then he acted whack like he lost his keys in the sand, just like warren.

  86. I was just going back through my notes on Warren and his marriages. He has 79 wives and 30 of them were married underage.

  87. Seems like I once read that Warren Jeffs was fascinated with the book Mein Kamph. I have not read it, but his way of intimidating and forcing a group of people to obey anything he commanded seems similar. It is tragic to look back and see how a nation like Germany fell into Hitler’s evil ways. It took the combined efforts of world powers to stop his insanity. He might have had good intentions early on, but evil took over. So it is important that there are those in our land who have been brave enough to bring to light and put a stop to the reign of Warren Jeffs. Hoping the trial goes forth and truth is established at last.

  88. Today the Warren Jeffs hearings continue with another attempt to delay trial, a change of venue hearing, don’t believe any change of venue will be allowed IMO.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/19/jeffs-hearing-on-venue-scheduled-wednesday/

    Ole Warren may be displeased, but the lawyers are happy, the meter is running on those billable hours.

  89. As far as I know, there hasn’t even been a Motion to Transfer Venue filed.

  90. Question to ponder:

    Will this be the first FLDS case to put on a defense? Apparently in his Utah case he did put on some sort of a defense. Will that happen here or will he continue the pattern of the defense resting after the prosecution’s case?

  91. My guess is that Warren S. Jeffs can’t breech the axiom of,”Answer Them Nothing” without braking faith with his own sheeple. He can’t perform his theocratic attitudes within a formal Courtroom, a competent defense counselor would advise/refuse the tactic, the judge would hit him with contempt charges and mete out prohibitive restrictions impairing his defenses. Warren is currently in the uneviable position of being a leader whom is actually following his followers into trial to face the very same indictment charges. Having sheeple already plead and convicted he would have the appearance of a ‘Judas’ to try another defense tact.

    Prophet Warren S. Jeffs enjoys the faithful sheeples unquestioning loyalties, so even at this late date should he change course and put forward another defense tactic, he would be risking a chance that his leadership and control could further deteriorate. Especially, if the change in strategy ultimately proved to be unsuccessful and twin convictions ensued.

  92. HOLM, SUSANNAH K
    Birth Date: 06/11/78
    Address : PO BOX 631, Colorado City, AZ
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    23:24:00 07/19/11 Johnson, Stev-H HCPD

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    76-8-305 INTERFERE WITH ARREST BM WCJ3 623.00 [No Payments Made]
    76-9-701(1) INTOXICATION CM WCJ3 190.00 [No Payments Made]
    76-9-102(3). DV-DISORDERLY CONDUCT CM WCJ3 320.00 [No Payments Made]
    76-5-102 . DV-ASSAULT ,SIMPLE BM WCJ3 1012.00 [No Payments Made]

  93. Is HCPD the “god squad”?

  94. “I was just going back through my notes on Warren and his marriages. He has 79 wives and 30 of them were married underage.

    Proud Texan said this on July 19, 2011 at 10:45 PM”

    ——————–

    How many of his wives started out as his mother? I thought he got about 20 of them from his dad after he passed but I forget the count.

    TIA

    Anyway it seems like the bulk of his wives are either his mothers or their children.

  95. PT

    HCPD is either Hurricane City or Hildale City ..?

    Also the “God Squad” arent po-lice, arent they “enforcers and intimidators” that randomly run around town acting goofy?

  96. The god squad are the goons that follow me around when I go to the creek.

  97. Oh, a Texas judge has been assassinated before. I recall this happening in San Antonio.

  98. Actor Woody Harrelson’s dad was convicted of trying to kill a federal court judge.

  99. HCPD is either Hurricane City or Hildale City ..?
    Also the “God Squad” arent po-lice, arent they “enforcers and intimidators” that randomly run around town acting goofy?
    Chaps said this on July 20, 2011 at 9:37 AM

    I thought the FLDS police in the twin cities were called “Colorado City PD. That’s why I wasn’t sure.

    I don’t think the God Squad followed us when we were there because they were all in a meeting praying for Carolyn Jessop’s death. There was a lone pickup that circled the cemetery when we were paying our respects there.

  100. I was wrong, it wasn’t attempted, he did it.

    On May 29, 1979, U.S. District Judge John H. Wood, Jr. was assassinated in the parking lot outside his San Antonio, Texas, townhouse. Harrelson was convicted of killing Judge Wood after being hired by drug dealer Jamiel Chagra of El Paso.

  101. I just found this blog. I find this entire train-wreck fascinating and deeply disturbing. It’s shocking how little seems to be done to ensure the kids in that group receive a decent education and the opportunity to make decisions about their own lives. Clearly the underage marriage/sex abuse issue is getting a lot of attention, but I also wonder about all the child labor issues. If hundreds of underage, uneducated children are being assigned to construction jobs without pay (or with confiscated pay), what, precisely are they building? Who is profiting? Why isn’t anyone going after the companies and shutting them down??? I understand that a lack of documentation and cooperative defendants might make it difficult to pursue some types of abuse, but labor is pretty well regulated in this country.

  102. I woke up this morning to HLN [CNN] news talkking about Warren just [?] fired his current attorney?? I am waiting to see if they replay the segment. They did talk alot about his up coming trial, the failed recusal hearing and how this could be ANOTHER [their word] attempt to delay. Did anyone else see or hear this??

  103. mc199

    i just heard it now.

    from this article, it says WJ still does not have a lead attorney. Detoto said she was only hired for the recusal motion. a couple of other attorneys say they are hired for the supression of evidence hearings, but won’t be lead attorney.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/19/jeffs-hearing-on-venue-scheduled-wednesday/

  104. A friend just asked me a semi-serious question. If WJ is to be tried by a ‘jury of his peers’, does that mean the defense can challenge the jurrors for not being meglamaniac, pedophilic, church’ prophets’ and therefore claim he can’t get a fair trial? Silly arguements like this have been made in juror selections. Just askin…
    HLN covering it again…..TruTV is following the case, it says. No mention if they will cover the trial live. They’re saying the case could go forward with or without an attorney of his choice. And showed some snaps of WJ and his 12yr old bride [her face fuzzed out]. They may replay if’n ya missed it…it started at the :41 min mark.

  105. reminds me of the old saying…. you should live among your peers so you will never be convicted…

    I would say the term “peers” is not so specific – jury selection for an orthodox Jewish rabbi would not only be picked from orthodox Jews within the district but, from everyone living in the area.

  106. In a malpractice proceeding, none of the members of the jury are “peers” of the accused physician. They are usually members of the community without scientific or medical training.

  107. I am still reading but I’ve been holding my breath and afraid to say anything in fear of jinxing something. But I saw this and I wanted to share. 🙂

    “For us, the question is not what do we do beyond Casey Anthony, it’s what are the right kinds of stories for us to tell,” added Safon, who also oversees HLN’s In Session, which was simulcast on Turner-owned truTV during the trial. “What can our experts on-air do the best job with and what kinds of stories will our audience be talking about every day?”

    Some of those stories will include the ongoing manslaughter trial of Michael Jackson’s doctor Conrad Murray as well as the trial of polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs, which is scheduled to begin later this month in Texas.

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/life-casey-anthony-verdict-what-208032

  108. Oh man, that sounds hopeful, Walton.

  109. Yeah, it sure does Third Cousin. Can you imagine WildBill contacting the Nancy Grace show? lol She’d put a snoop dog (not the singer) on his tail.

    a live interview with WildBill

    B U S T E D

    🙂 No dancing in the moonlight for WildBill lol

    There are lots of stories out there. Lindsay, Concho Valley, KXAN, Matthew and more.

    I will continue to read and watch. Won’t be posting for awhile.

  110. http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/20/judge-jeffs-current-attorneys-must-represent-him/

    Jeff goes to trial on Monday!

  111. Amazingly, Judge Walther has ruled that the trial begins next Monday, 25 July, 2011, and all current attorney(s) for WS Jeffs are to remain on his defense team which includes suppressing evidence and recusal counselors and yet the latest Texas counselor Deric Walpole. Walpole had asked for a change of venue and 180 days to prepare for trial which was over-ruled. Welcome aboard Mr. Walpole to ‘Warren’s Warriors’, see y’all Monday!

  112. Its about time!! Been looking forward to the coward having to answer for his actions.

  113. dang I was going to be the first to link!!!
    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/20/judge-jeffs-current-attorneys-must-represent-him/

    Good news, but I am sure that all are going to point to this as proof positive that there is bias in the system

    Like stonewalling is a right

  114. Is she then FORCING him to pay for many attorneys that he wouldn’t have otherwise chosen to hire for this lenght of time? Maybe she is trying to break the bank?? Strategizing??

  115. They have a river of money. You can’t break the bank. He’ll sell YFZ if he has to. The new house in Short Creek is for him. Chalk this up as a bad strategy, this is one hell of a defense team.

    I still think he gets barbecued. I can’t wait to see how it unfolds. Maybe this can give the FLDS folk a well deserved fresh start. Hands off the kids this time around guys; especially the daughters and sisters (Warren).

  116. Lyle better hightail it back to ShortCreek and pass 7 hats. Warren’s now got 7 attorneys to pay.

  117. Hate to harp on this, but I hope jail personnel are keeping a high-level suicide watch on warren.

  118. Yeah Anon, the last thing we would want to do is make a martyr out of Warren.

  119. But he did hire them Anon @ 6:36.

  120. Anon, harp all you want. I don’t want it to go down that way.

  121. I don’t want it to go down that way either, but I think he’s too busy on the phone and writing notes to his attorney to think of ways to kill himself.

  122. Schwing!

    Drive by to announce “Under the Banner of Heaven” is going to be made into a movie, with Ron Howard driving it.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsmoviecricket/52226162-66/church-lds-book-krakauer.html.csp

  123. Anon at 5:31 linking article was me HHG

    Anybody watching to see if Bill M’s head is exploding?

  124. Too late, he exploded a couple days ago, a few more bottles and he might get back to crazy though.

    Wonder if he is actually going to fly out for warrants trial this time, or lie like he usually does?

    Maybe we should cut and paste him as a lil mr bill into all the pics and play “Wheres waldo”?

    OOOOOHHH NOOOOOooooooooo

  125. Court documents related to the amended motion for rehearing on recusal filed on behalf of Warren Jeffs

  126. Is everyone else afraid to breathe? Trial might actually proceed on time, it might even be televised or at closely reported, and a portion of the sheeple might get the choice to liberate their lives in good conscience.

    Throwing pints of salt over left shoulder…..saying these things out loud….my mind turns to the ancestors and what I hope they might think of how things have turned out.

    Whenever i like to get self-righteous about my perception of the way polygamy “used to be”, (always hoping we’re not as bad as people thought) thinking that WSJ and his dad and one-,man-rule screwed up what was a picturesque, god-fearing, and loving lifestyle, I remind myself that even clear back during the 1953 raid I already had many middle aged adult family members married to 13 year olds, some even without their childish consent.

  127. Drum roll please ………………………

    The list of attorneys, in no particular order:
    Carla Perron
    Reagan Wynn
    Robert Udashan
    Deric Walpole
    Gary Udashan
    Jeffrey Kearney
    Emily Munoz Detoto

    And of course, there’s always the possibility that Warren will come into Court tomorrow and fire all these.

    I’ll bet Lyle’s sweating bullets trying to figure out how to pay them all.

  128. The State of Texas has subpoenaed the wives of Warren Jeffs

  129. BIB, some of them are wives, or all?

  130. The expert witness list for Warren Jeffs for the upcoming trial

  131. Back in the day here out west when they couldn’t find a Bible they used to use the Sears catalog. I love that.

    Third Cousin said this on July 19, 2011 at 9:10 AM

    HA HA HA, Third Cousin, that is SO darn funny!!! Are you serious or just teasing us?

  132. Anon re: Sears catalog, I have read more than one instance of this in historical writings. One was on the history of Jal, New Mexico, which I remember in particular, they were trying to get a judge to swear a warrant out on some horse thief and they couldn’t find a bible right away to hear a witness, and presto chango: Sears catalog, the second most important publication they could think of.

  133. Source: “Jal, Tough as an Old Boot,” 1976, by Orval H. Austin. If you’re a history freak like I am, it’s a good read. Otherwise, perhaps not.

  134. http://www.reporternews.com/news/2011/jul/20/warren-jeffs-pretrial-hearing-continues/

    Check out the photos. I always try to give Patrick Dove 5 stars but you have to sign in to do so. Forever and a day, I still can’t seem to master that on that site.
    Patrick Dove- 5 stars
    2 guys with white hats and one with sunglasses- 5 stars
    Matthew Waller trying to keep us all informed- 5 stars
    Concho Valley and their clips- 5 stars
    One Judge with boots on- 10 stars

    They have sent out over 700 notices for jury trial. :0

    I think it’s going to happen. This all should hit the rest of the media by Thurs.

  135. https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Darger-Family/189229831128045

    interesting , the Dargers have a facebook page

  136. Walton, Patrick Dove didn’t take those pics of Warren today, Matt did. He was wearing all the hats today.

  137. princessofsiam, people from Short Creek are “Crikers” and people from Georgia are “Crackers”.

    However, if people are going to be “exposing” themselves at Warren’s trial, then I definitely want to be there – LOL

  138. Anon. are you there? You get to see everything?

    Man. oh man. I wish I could be.

    Matthew Waller is multi-talented.

    I can’t say enough nice things about all those that have tried so hard all these years to keep this going. They all get old lady mom huggs from me.

    BiB thanks for all the links. Exactly what area is John Walsh an expert?

    On the wives list it only went to page 3 for me. ( Jessop area)

  139. Someone mentioned earlier that Warren has a new house at Short Creek. Why would he have a house built for him in Short Creek?

  140. Older Anonymous, it was in January 2004 that Ross Chatwin spoke out to the nation about the “Hitler in the desert” Warren Jeffs and held up the book “Mein Kamph”.

    I have read that Joseph White Musser first instituted the idea of following Hitler’s theories on mind-control and people-control after reading (and instilling) Hitler’s early writings, by including them in the fundamentalist Mormon practices.

    Free choice??? I think NOT!

  141. BinB, the plural wives list for Prophet Jeffs I total at 68 brides which includes the minor wives? I believe a truer wives count would include apostated/released brides which this list may/may not reflect . Calling all of these plural wives to Court at same time will pose a logistical concern inside of the Courthouse, let alone the Courtroom.

  142. Clearly the underage marriage/sex abuse issue is getting a lot of attention, but I also wonder about all the child labor issues. If hundreds of underage, uneducated children are being assigned to construction jobs without pay (or with confiscated pay), what, precisely are they building? Who is profiting? Why isn’t anyone going after the companies and shutting them down??? I understand that a lack of documentation and cooperative defendants might make it difficult to pursue some types of abuse, but labor is pretty well regulated in this country.

    jerrie said this on July 20, 2011 at 12:16 PM

    Not in Utah jerrie. Maybe that is something the Utah Attorney General should think about. But NO, he is too busy suing over college football’s BCS.

    After all, there are priorities in life, and in Utah college football takes priority over child slave labor issues.

    So many children… so little football.

  143. reminds me of the old saying…. you should live among your peers so you will never be convicted…

    Watergirl said this on July 20, 2011 at 2:15 PM

    Watergirl, I never heard that saying before (and I am old) but I really like it – touche!

  144. I counted 78 wives on the witness list….is that all of them??? I thought someone mentioned 90, the other day. That’s gonna be one crowded witness waiting room [or hallway]! IF they show up! As for the other list…it looks like people he may have done business with? It’s all gonna be interesting if/when they try to tell what a good man he is. Lordy, I’d love to be there to see it all.

  145. Walton said: Exactly what area is John Walsh an expert?
    It’s not the John Walsh of TV ‘fame’ that I first thought of when I read the name.

    I looked him up…Dr. John Walsh is the LDS and fundamentalist Mormon expert .. according to [of all places] an artice Brooke posted on the SLT site MAy 2008. I guess he didn’t care for whatever she’d said about him and/or the FLDS. [Just a guess, I didn’t see the original article. I searched Dr John Walsh, Missouri, and the article came up]
    The title stated :Based on Dr. Walsh’s research, the LDS and FLDS share about 95 percent common theology and 75 percent common practice.

  146. Just found this site while researching the Banner of Heaven movie. I read the Jon Krakauer book several years ago – couldn’t put it down. It seemed unimaginable that so many people were cut off & completely unaware of advances in technology, science, etc. while living in the U.S. The book describes a lifestyle that almost no members can afford … very large families dependant on welfare & other subsidies. At the time I remember thinking what a drain to Arizona’s taxpayors this one community is. At the time, I tried to discuss the book with friends & acquaintances but nobody had any interest in the subject matter.

    I was watching HLN tonight & the program discussed Warren Jeff’s trial starting Monday. The commentators appeared excited it was to start … perhaps it will be shown on their “sister station” InSession (TruTV).

    Can anyone give me suggestions of a good website where I can get some background info before the trial starts? Maybe a newspaper or TV website. If the site includes actual documents like witness interviews, etc that would be great! Also, are the arrest report notices submitted here of FLDS members? Thanks for any help you can give!

  147. Boatchic- This is the BEST place for info. You might wanna start with the upper right corner of this site…under Pages. Many posters here have also posted numerous documents, links and court papers about the previous and upcoming cases. It’s a daunting task [at times] to read and process them all. Also, under Blogroll., there are many sites worth reading. You have your work cut out for you if you wanna get up to speed before trial! Happy reading.

  148. Suggestion for flds Texas administrators: Could the various links posted by posters and related to warren’s trial be gathered together in one place??

  149. Boatchic, two websites besides this one is ‘Flds 101’ and ‘HOPE Organization’ for more background info, see right column Blogroll at the top of this page. Also, a weekly anti-polygamy church ministry, with a format focus topic and viewer phon-ins, that tries to help people to escape this illicit lifestyle has over two years of program archives you can view on their website,”whatloveisthis.tv'(again, see Blogroll). An Arizona based TV website known by ‘Azfamily’ features alot of info from their polygamy expert, namely Mike Watkiss, his storyline covers the past decade.

    For daily breaking news, latest info and current events, right here is tops, just post any questions or comments and join us. Three better news press websites are ‘Sltrib’. ‘Gosanangelo’ and ‘Eldorado Success’, latter paid access. Let your voice and interest serve to inform a wider audience, welcome!

  150. Maybe we should all chip in and rent a Jumbotron to park in CC?
    I am totally serious….
    What do you think, what would it cost and where could we park it? In the real world would it be legal (of course it wouldn’t there) but would state laws permit it?

  151. In response to Warren’s house question

    In the HDnet story link posted a few days ago there was a clip of Warren’s empty million dollar house large enough for him and 80 wives, surrounded by castle walls….

  152. I second chemist’s suggestion

  153. mc119, I can only think of 1 name left off the list. I had Warren at 79 wives with this trial being about Wife #66 and Wife #79.

    I spoke to someone last night who said that Wallace’s case was the real deal, he truly feels betrayed by his brothers and the others who hid the truth about Warren’s confession that he isn’t and has never been the profit.

    I wonder if Lyle was in the courtroom yesterday to avoid being served with process from Utah.

  154. A Warren trial thread has been started. Please keep it to only discussion of Warren’s trial and bring everything else here.

  155. Please, observe the ID’s of any youth victims should be treated with a privacy respect, we do not wish to become a party to the tragic treatment of these children. Initials should suffice in referring to ‘MJ’ or ‘LB’, etc. to respect the ages of these victims.

  156. The list of attorneys, in no particular order:

    Carla Perron
    Reagan Wynn
    Robert Udashan
    Deric Walpole
    Gary Udashan
    Jeffrey Kearney
    Emily Munoz Detoto

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

    He is going to get Carpal Tunnel writing all the checks….. just sayin’

  157. Here is a great quote from the denial of motion to recuse:

    “Impartiality is not gullibility”

    got it from the document on the “trial we have been waiting for”

  158. I appreciate your sentiment CAJim, but in the case where they are listed on Witness lists or subpoena lists and those lists are scanned, there is nothing that can be done.

    In other cases, when just talking about them, initials are a great idea.

  159. Jorjina and Joe Broadbent, exFLDS mother and son, of ,'”Sons of Perdition” fame were last weeks interviewees on Doris Hanson’s,’Whatloveisthis.tv’ show, new insights to Warren Jeffs’ shepherding of his sheeple and detour road to the ‘Lands of Refuge’. fascinating. Joe Broadbent discusses more details to child labor law practices and Jorjina Broadbent affirms many of author Carolyn Jessop’s book revelations, in “Escape” and “Triumph”, as being factual and accurate.

  160. More documents from the trial will be posted this evening.

  161. Witness list for state (not including wives) is 54; witness list for defense is 3

  162. HHG, was that from Judge Hyde’s Order?

  163. Do you have a link CAJim?

  164. Yes the quote was from Judge Hyde’s respone to the 2nd recusal request
    it is a very short document. Quote is closing paragraph

  165. Wonder if Wild bill m is on one of the witness lists. After all, he is willie’s friend. has a daily call to the yfz, etc.

  166. I’ve looked all over. I am not seeing any major news networks that have said anything about the trial in Texas on Monday.

    Someone mentioned that something might be aired on Trutv. I looked there and from what I can see on line there isn’t an opening in their line-ups that covers things like this unless it would fall under Repo man or Dumb and dumber.

    I checked Mike Watkiss Arizona news site and I didn’t see anything but he did mention it on his Twitter that he would be going.

    No word from Ben Winslow or Brent Hunsaker.

    Nothing on Anderson Cooper.

    Nothing on Nancy Grace.

    Has there been any word on the courts allowing cameras into the courtroom?

  167. I looked him up…Dr. John Walsh is the LDS and fundamentalist Mormon expert .. according to [of all places] an artice Brooke posted on the SLT site MAy 2008. I guess he didn’t care for whatever she’d said about him and/or the FLDS. [Just a guess, I didn’t see the original article. I searched Dr John Walsh, Missouri, and the article came up]
    The title stated :Based on Dr. Walsh’s research, the LDS and FLDS share about 95 percent common theology and 75 percent common practice.

    mc199 said this on July 21, 2011 at 1:34 AM

    I am sorry mc. I was being rather sarcastic when I asked what area John Walsh was an expert.

    He made the comment in the Texas courts that stated that the “bed” was more than likely used for those who grow “tired” or “sick” during their long Church days. The bed would be used for them to “nap” or to rest.

    The bed was I think found on 3rd floor. Church services were I believe held on 1st floor. They would have had to drag those that felt “faint” up 2 flights of stairs. And by the looks of the “temple bed” hoist them up only to probably watch them fall over the side.

    John Walsh has written many articles that have been published for the LDS Ensign magazine. He has also written for the FAIR org. ( LDS)

    What is FAIR? http://www.fairlds.org/

    and I wouldn’t want to leave out the FARM : http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/about/missionstatement.php

  168. Hi walton! Can’t believe the trial is finally going to start!

    I asked Matthew Waller about cameras in the courtroom. Maybe he will find out for us.

  169. hellohellogoodbye, what is a Jumbotron?

  170. A Jumbotron is a really huge TV screen, like at a playing field.

  171. For boatchick- A look inside the FLDS

    http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/02/polygamists/anderson-text

  172. PT, the right column on this site has ‘whatloveisthis.tv’ under the ‘Blogroll’ section, click-on that link to access the website.

  173. Another for boatchick: Another look inside Polygamy – You will see in the many articles and stories- the Abuses inside of Polygamy. And many of them have occured by those with more than one leader (one man rule) in place. Rulon and Warren just took everything one step further. imo

    http://www.childbrides.org/sara.html

  174. Juliekan- are you able to make it to the trial?

  175. Oral arguments in Raymond’s case have been set for 10/26/11.

  176. Thanks for letting me know CAJim.

  177. Juliekan, I can sort of answer your question. There won’t be any cameras in the courtroom. There was never a motion filed requesting such access, only a letter to the Judge. If there had been a motion filed, there would have been some sort of hearing on the matter.

    Great site BTW, a friend pointed me in the direction of the blog.

  178. Now that Jeffs has used up all of his stall tactics (I hope) whats next? A hunger strike? I can’t see him start singin hymns like BDM. Maybe just a repeat of the marathon prayer sessions wearing out his knees again.

  179. As far as what’s next and Warren finally reaching the end of his stalling rope, I can’t emphasize enough the suicide watch. Beware the 24th of July!

  180. I wonder if they will move him to the Tom Green County Jail for easier transport to and from the trial.

  181. As far as what’s next and Warren finally reaching the end of his stalling rope, I can’t emphasize enough the suicide watch. Beware the 24th of July!

    Anonymous said this on July 21, 2011 at 1:37 PM

    Why are you saying things like this? Do you really think that after all this time in the safe hands of Texas that all of a sudden a jailer is going to say ooops he was fine one minute and the next he was gone?

    No…way. Not after all this. Nope.

  182. So CNN sent a letter to the Judge and yet someone else needs to make the motion?

    This must have been the first time CNN has ever requested to have cameras in the courtroom?

    I wonder why their standard practice this one time goes against all odds?

    This is BS.

  183. Please… don’t kill the messenger. I’m a firm believer in history repeating itself!

  184. Maybe we should think of it as “Atonement Watch” – eh? He’s all about atonement!

  185. I watched the video with Joe Broadbent and his mom. Joe has grown so much since I had first seen him on the clips. He kinda looks like Kevin Bacon.

    His moms eyes sparkle when she smiles. I really liked her smile when she was talking about getting her hair cut. Her smile made me smile.

    You guys do realize that it is normal for people to want to blame someone, be angry with someone. I think I was done blaming Warren for all the pain he caused for so many. I moved passed Warren and put the blame on those who could do something and did not.

    LE, Judges, Attorney Generals and the others who kept watching and didn’t do anything.

    For all the air time Mark Shurtleff and the others have gotten I don’t think it is too much to ask to be able to see this on live tv covered by media that is outside the circle and doesn’t come under the heading of “entertainment” or told only in the local news or show up on TMZ, hollywood what ever.

    Two lines in passing into a commercial is not a news story that is being considered “newsworthy” imo.

    What’s up?

  186. Please… don’t kill the messenger. I’m a firm believer in history repeating itself!

    Anonymous said this on July 21, 2011 at 2:07 PM

    Sorry.

    But I have more faith in Doran, Deputy George and those rangers than to think all of a sudden something is going to happen to him now. If anything would have happened it would have happened in Utah. And he scaled that wall and trial to go back and forth a few times per se.

    Warren isn’t going to get out of it that easy. And it is really important that Justice is seen.

    The duck story. Many times my dad took out that news article and he felt good about the choices he had made since then. He did so for himself and his family.

    Everyone needs a little proof that Justice was and is being done.

    Me? I want more than a little piece of paper. I want it talked about on Nancy Grace. I want to hear Anderson Cooper talk about Judge Walther giving so and so what for.

    I want to read Lindsay talking about some of the locals. I want to hear Ben out of breath running after interviews. I want to read Matt Wallers story as to how he sees things and the reactions from “their” locals.

    I want page after page wow. And I hope WildBill calls the Nacny Grace show and they do a live interview/call in skype whatever and she chews his arse out for having said half the crap he has.

    I want the big guys with white hats and the other guys with sunglasses to come in and serve the whole busload of lawyers and Warren with papers for the things that they’ve yet to charge Warren and Co. and other connections.

    I want it all. And in the end I want to be able to send a thank-you to those that helped make it all happen. I want to be able to say thank you to the agencies that helped.

    Do you guys remember the Texas Senate hearings? I don’t think it was done for show. I honestly believe that they cared. I honestly believed that they were all going to do things to make sure Justice was going to be done. They all know the public is a little hesitant in just believing the words they speak. We are a show me type bunch.

    Show me. Show me so I believe it.

  187. BiB said: Maybe we should all chip in and rent a Jumbotron to park in CC?
    Where do I send a check! On the more serious side, you’ll need to take the National Guard and Seal Team 6 with you to protect you from the local cops…who will arrest everyone for breathing without a permit.
    ——————-

    Walton said:I’ve looked all over. I am not seeing any major news networks that have said anything about the trial in Texas on Monday.
    Dr. Drew had a segment, last night on his show, with several speakers. And, again, this morning I woke up to HLN, and then In Session, speaking about the upcoming trial. I hadn’t thought about the fact that court papers would have to be filed [by the media outlets] for them to film inside the court, so, sadly, it looks like that may not happen.

  188. I really don’t know what CNN did. I know that televised trials have been requested before in Tom Green County and all have been turned down. The local news people have quit requesting.

    I do know that it was not discussed either yesterday or today, so that tells me that no Motion was filed.

  189. mc119, if you were to park the Jumbotron on the yard of some “apostate” then the local cops would have a hard time arresting you and pulling the plug. I think that the jumbotron needs to show Warren’s “I am not the Profit” speech.

  190. Dr. Drew? the rehab/addiction expert who also is a reality show pregnant teen expert?

    http://drdrew.blogs.cnn.com/

    Seriously? really?

    and I suppose trial coverage will be covered by Joy and chelsea (late night hostess) with their expert teams?

    And Charlie Sheen will be able to get the exclusive with Warren himself?

    Seriously?

    I know there are a lot of great journalists out there. And I know there are a lot of great writers out there. It is a crying shame that they are not allowed to do their jobs the way that they should.

    I am done posting.

  191. Walton and Anon,

    I don’t think anyone doubts the competence of the sheriff or his staff in properly taking care of their prisoner. But something could still happen, and anybody who knows the history will be worried not only on July 24th but July 26th as well.

    I want to hear a trial of the evidence, not a eulogy.

  192. Welcome Warrentrialwatcher !

  193. Victoria Reynolds has a new post on her blog, The Polygamist’s Daughter :

    http://thepolygamistsdaughter.wordpress.com/2011/07/21/is-polygamy-the-answer/

  194. Does anyone know how many children WSJ has ? Are they all with his wives at YFZ? Just wondering as to how they are being supported financially.

  195. I just watched the Joe/Jorgina Broadbent interview and I think they are both wonderfully brave to stand up and say “hey, I don’t want to live like this anymore” and then do something about it. A lot of people will make the statement, but only a few follow through.

    I was happy to hear that Sabrina is able to see her children. I felt so bad for her having to leave them behind. Also, I want to correct a statement that Joe made. To the best of my knowledge and the State of Texas’ judging by the subpoenas they requested, Warren had 79 wives with the one he is facing Felony Sexual Assault charges over being the last one. I have heard that one of the Bad Acts is that at least 30 of his wives were underage. Since 32 were retreads from Rulon, that’s over 1/2 of his wives that were underage. 30 out of 47 were underage.

  196. Walton, yes..that Dr Drew. What really made me cringe was when he said how he loves the show Big Love! ARGH!!!! And then tried to say how this [the flds] is just like that [Big Love] only with disgusting sexual battery…or words to that effect! He JUST DIDN’T GET IT!!
    The speakers were Laurie Allen [?], who said Carolyn Jessop should be given a medal for her bravery and escape…and 2 others who seemed to be in the know about this subject.

  197. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2011/07/21/exp.warren.jeffs.trial.nn.hln?iref=allsearch

    If you watch the video, 4 of the attorneys walk up together. The Udashen brothers, Kearney and Wynn.

  198. Oh yeah, the lady on CNN is totally wrong. They are not free to leave.

  199. Walton

    I have obligations in the Ft. Worth and Lubbock areas during the trial, so no can go. Sure wish i could!

    Everyone at the forum i’m posting on now wants to know where our “expert” is….they’re just stuck with me, and all my info comes from my little bit of research and the info here, lol.

  200. What expert?

  201. someone i used to post with on another forum who knew a lot more than me and was very good at research

  202. bill medslacking made a threat using info copied from info hacked by the “Anonymous” group – OOOPS these bad boys are going to prison.

    Too bad bill was just faking it, he could have joined them!

    LulzSec comes full circle!

    =============

    “WASHINGTON (AP) –

    A hacker tied to the group who broke into the Department of Public Safety’s computer network has been arrested in Arizona.

    The Justice Department says 14 (over 21 hackers now) people have been arrested for allegedly mounting a cyberattack on the Web site of PayPal (and the AZDPS among others) in retaliation for suspending the accounts of WikiLeaks (and AZ immigration law).

    Although not identified, one of those who were arrested was in Arizona, the indictment embedded below shows.”

    http://www.kold.com/story/15114873/hacker-arrested-in-arizona

  203. Older Anonymous, it was in January 2004 that Ross Chatwin spoke out to the nation about the “Hitler in the desert” Warren Jeffs and held up the book “Mein Kamph”.

    I have read that Joseph White Musser first instituted the idea of following Hitler’s theories on mind-control and people-control after reading (and instilling) Hitler’s early writings, by including them in the fundamentalist Mormon practices.

    Free choice??? I think NOT!

    Anonymous said this on July 21, 2011 at 12:00 AM

    It was “Rise and fall of the third Reich”, not “Mein Kamph” that he held up.

  204. I counted 78 wives on the witness list….is that all of them??? I thought someone mentioned 90, the other day. That’s gonna be one crowded witness waiting room [or hallway]! IF they show up! As for the other list…it looks like people he may have done business with? It’s all gonna be interesting if/when they try to tell what a good man he is. Lordy, I’d love to be there to see it all.

    mc199 said this on July 21, 2011 at 1:16 AM

    Warren Jeffs, in a 2004 meeting, said that the Lord told him that he needed to have 100 wives by the end of the year. If you think that Warren didn’t meet that goal, you don’t know him very well.

  205. Well, Warren is really the man in charge now. We’ll all soon see how this “One Man Rule” thing works when it’s undergoing a stress test. Will he sit stoically and play the courthouse mouse, will he take command of his surroundings and speak out or fight back or will he tell us, show us and reveal to us just how a real man rules? I am guessing we’ll see the mouse. “SQUEEK, Squeek, squeek”!!!

  206. Oops, looks like more trouble in Pringle.

    http://www.custercountynews.com/cms/news/news/story-255369.html

    This post was moved by Admin to the proper thread.

  207. 100 wives,

    100 attorneys,

    that seems about right….

  208. You’re silly Stamp

  209. WILLIAMS, JEROLD NATHAN JR
    Birth Date: 07/27/87
    Address : 265 N HOMESTEAD STREET, Colorado City, AZ
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    14:48:21 07/21/11 Williams, Ean WCJL

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    HOLD HOLD-JUDGE ORDER BM 5DIS 0.00 [No Payments Mad

  210. Hey when you are livin large why not go all out?

  211. So Warren Steed Jeffs married 15 Steeds and 3 Jeffs. Yikes.

  212. I’m gonna go back, aways, to something I mentioned on my trip through Liverpool, UK, in May, having to do with William Jeffs Way. [I have the photo, but no way to post it…that I can find]. I did a little research and found out a little bit about the UK Jeffs’s. [Feel free to move to the next comment if this will bore the socks off ya!]
    There is a genealogy site, Arnold Smith& descendants-Free pages, with the heading Family of Arnold Smith 1789-1858. “Father of Gypsy Tribe and Mormonite”.
    Born/died Horley, Oxfordshire, UK. He married Charlotte Blake 1809 and had 11 [poss 12] children. 1 [poss 2] died in infancy..? [The document is 87 pgs long and gets confusing for a non genealogy person, like me.]
    In 1849 5 members were re-baptized into the Mormon Church, the same yr the Utah organized into a US Territory under Gov Brigham Young. 2 others converted later. Of those 7, 1 died, 5 emigrated to Utah, and it’s unk what happened the the son, Edward. the others were baptized after their death in SLC, Ut, in 1900.
    In 1847 Ellen Smith[24] married William Jeffs in Horley, UK, and emigrated to American Fork, Ut. They had 8 children.
    Several settled [and died in 1900] in American Fork, Ut. A lot of the info on the site is from a book called ‘Jeffs Families” [1973] by L D Jeffs.
    There are several William Jeffs mentioned throughout the doc, but I have no way of knowing he the one the street is named for. However, it seems, there are still a LOT of Jeffs in England.
    The end!

  213. Anon @ 10:10, the 3 Jeffs aren’t really Jeffs. Caroline Jeffs is a Nielsen whose mother married Rulon. Mary Marie Jeffs is really a Fischer and she’s one of the girls in the swing with Rulon.

    Mildred Ann Jeffs is Merril’s daughter Mille. She is the only “wife” who isn’t listed by her maiden name and I”m not sure why.

    Very random.

  214. A Jumbotron is a really huge TV screen, like at a playing field.

    Born In Brooklyn said this on July 21, 2011 at 10:27 AM

    Thanks BIB, you can sure tell the difference between those who live in civilization and those who live in the boondocks.

    Civilization has technology; the boonies don’t.

    Looks like its time to move out of the boondocks.

  215. As far as what’s next and Warren finally reaching the end of his stalling rope, I can’t emphasize enough the suicide watch. Beware the 24th of July!

    Anonymous said this on July 21, 2011 at 1:37 PM

    So does this posting mean that everybody should wait until Monday to buy their plane tickets or make their travel plans to attend the trial?

  216. I want page after page wow. And I hope WildBill calls the Nancy Grace show and they do a live interview/call in skype whatever and she chews his arse out for having said half the crap he has.

    Walton, you are so funny!

  217. mc119, if you were to park the Jumbotron on the yard of some “apostate” then the local cops would have a hard time arresting you and pulling the plug. I think that the jumbotron needs to show Warren’s “I am not the Profit” speech.

    Proud Texan said this on July 21, 2011 at 2:55 PM

    Don’t bet on it PT. The local cops (Marshal’s office) give a whole new meaning to the term “Dirty cops”. They don’t follow anything but “Warren’s” law.

  218. Does anyone know how many children WSJ has ? Are they all with his wives at YFZ? Just wondering as to how they are being supported financially.

    C-M said this on July 21, 2011 at 4:27 PM

    My answers would be:
    Question #1 – too many
    Question #2 – probably not
    Question #3 – most likely by we the taxpayers

  219. Anon said:…if you were to park the Jumbotron on the yard of some “apostate” then the local cops would have a hard time arresting you and pulling the plug.

    And, unless things have miraculously changed, most [all?] apostates have been denied water and electricity hookups to their houses.

  220. It was “Rise and fall of the third Reich”, not “Mein Kamph” that he held up.

    Anonymous said this on July 21, 2011 at 6:26 PM

    Thanks for your correction, Anon 6:26 PM

  221. Warren Jeffs, in a 2004 meeting, said that the Lord told him that he needed to have 100 wives by the end of the year. If you think that Warren didn’t meet that goal, you don’t know him very well.

    Anonymous said this on July 21, 2011 at 6:37 PM

    Amen to that!

  222. So Warren Steed Jeffs married 15 Steeds and 3 Jeffs. Yikes.

    Anonymous said this on July 21, 2011 at 10:10 PM

    It appears that Warren, the pedophile profit, likes to keep it “all in the family.” Looks like he has been following the teachings of just another one of the many Utah polygamous cult’s – the Kingston’s – “pure blood” theory.

    Double YIKES.

    Hey, Utah Attorney General, what are you doing about protecting women and children? NOTHING? Then go for that college football issue. That BCS is really going to change peoples’ lives.

    So many children to abuse … so little college football time.

  223. Other people helped the FLDS rise up

    Warren is going to show them how to fall

  224. The perverted pedophile on trial should be dubbed the ‘Count of Sueaky
    Springs, Texas’, this big of a mess and he ends up in jail and a ward of the State of Texas. How come Texas can’t send the tab to Utah/Arizona, they homespun him and set him on his criminal pathway? Warrant S. Jeffs Serial Wedlocker, ‘Daddy Do Nothing’ and ‘Long Prick from Short Crick’. What a huge crime wave slave that knows how to pray. “Monday, Monday so good to me Monday, Monday all I hoped it could be” hit song sung by the Mamas and the Papas, how prophetic is that?

  225. Sorry, typo should read,”…’Count of Squeaky Springs, Texas”.

  226. Warren Jeffs, in a 2004 meeting, said that the Lord told him that he needed to have 100 wives by the end of the year. If you think that Warren didn’t meet that goal, you don’t know him very well.
    Anonymous said this on July 21, 2011 at 6:37 PM
    Amen to that!
    Anonymous said this on July 22, 2011 at 12:52 AM

    ———————————————

    Don’t know him at all, but I’ve read the dictations backward and forwards and backwards again. By the end of 2004 he had 72.

  227. Someone asked about how many kids Warren had. I can come up with 52-54. There are 2 that I am unclear whether they are his or not. He also has 12 or 13 grandkids. There’s one of those I’m unclear on.

    You can find a lot of information by reading the dictations.

  228. Expounding further on Warren’s kids, 9 of them were with underage brides and 6 were with wives of Rulon. 20 of them come from his 1st 2 wives, Annette and Barbara and 11 more come from the next 3 wives. By doing the math, there are lots of his wives who have no children.

  229. What only 72 Brides and not 100 Brides? I’m totally shocked and dismayed I tell you, just stunned that he only has 72 Brides, what a sad state of affairs. [Tongue firmly held in cheek].

    I was wondering about how does Warren roll when he’s on vacation? Does he rent the entire Hotel or does he just travel with a flotilla of RVs? When he takes a ship cruise how does he seat everyone at the Captain’s table? When he goes camping does he need the Ringling Brothers Circus Tent or does he just book the entire National Park campsite section and call it ‘Camp Bible Belt’? If they go to the beach does everyone take their own towel or does Warren just part the water, so nobody gets wet? When they picnic what do they use for a ground blankets, maybe parachutes? If they vacation by air, do they go to the airport or do they sign up for the Air Baloon Races? No offense, I’m just wondering.

  230. Its one thing for your assets to be fuzzy due to the stock market and price of your home and vehicles.

    Its quite another to not have a finger to the wire on your wives and kids.

    This bozo is flat out of control.

    I think the bracelet bling he has been wearing is appropriate – he cant get his filthy hands on anymore women or children.

  231. OH

    Wonder if he carved “ZION” over his CellofSteel Kingdom door like the brethern in the crick?

  232. Well, $#&^%, I screwed up on my own research. It was William Jessop Way! 1745-1814 HE was an civil engineer who designed docks, canals, lighthouses and railways in the UK and Ireland.He lived snd died there. I haven’t found any obvious connection to the Utah, etc, name. SO, sorry about the bad Jessop info…but the UK Jeffs stuff turned out to be kinda more interesting, to me. Being that they settled just west of SLC, in American Fork, I wonder if they are a connected to larger Jeffs clan.

  233. Good point there CAJim, but I’m betting that at any given time 1/2 or more are having to “repent from afar”. He probably just takes the underage ones since he can get the kids discount for them.

  234. I wonder how he remembers how many wives he has and what their names are?

  235. If he divided his time with each of the 72 wives equally he would be with each one only five nights in a year.

  236. If he divided his time with each of the 72 wives equally he would be with each one only five nights in a year.

    ruthiesgirl said this on July 22, 2011 at 2:56 PM

    Ruthie’s Girl, that is all the contact he needs with him in order to run his breeding program.

  237. Which explains why some of them never had kids. But I’m betting he didn’t spend his time equally…..

    You hear alot about Naomi. Maybe she was his favorite.

    Did she get let free after Warren was caught? Where is she now?

    If the wives don’t show up, will it delay the trial?

  238. Aren’t FLDS men taught not to sleep with their women while they’re pregnant anyway? If thats true, he’d still never have to spend a lonely night

  239. According to Irene Spencer and Susan Schmidt from the LeBaron group, they can sleep with them, just not have sex

    As for Naomi, I haven’t heard anything about her since his capture. And you know, she might have been his favorite, but he never got her pregnant.

  240. I wonder why Clea Maureen Steed isn’t on the subpoena list? Also, I’m not sure how they expect to get Barbara Ann Barlow up there.

  241. Becase she was on birth control I read on here. From what I recall, a number were on the pill for supposed endometriosis.

    I don’t recall seeing Naomie on the subpoena li- just kidding…why did I think she was a Steed?

  242. I had the same thought about Barbara Ann. She will be the most difficult to serve a subpoena on. Not sure about Clea Maureen either. I haven’t seen hide nor hair of her leaving.

    Ariel – Naomie was a Jessop, one of Merril and Ruth’s daughters who gave Carolyn hell when she joined the family. The birth control pill would be an interesting question to put to Becky Musser. She would have been one of the young wives married to the old geezer.

  243. I knew nothing about defense expert witness Ken Driggs. This an excellent article he wrote on the process by which original mormon beliefs became “fundamentalist” and how the huge surge in LDS converts during the 1980’s and 1990’s created a situation in which the current membership does not even know of these beliefs. This sheds some light on why I grew up in the mainstream church but with fundamentalist beliefs.

    https://dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V41N02_87.pdf

    What do we expect Driggs to testify to on Warren’s behalf?

  244. Driggs article is intrguing but primarily to LDS or questioning exFLDS. He points out the differences between the mainstream church, a newer sect and what earmarks a cult. He makes a reasoned case that the LDS Church has evolved away from a sect and more toward a mainstream church. His differences between a sect and a cult struck me as illuminating on what may be transpiring amongst the FLDS Church. Under Warren Jeffs leadership this sect is decidedly headed back toward being more of a cult. exFLDS Joe Broadbent’s comments on ‘whatloveisthis.tv’ last week, with Doris Hanson, said that Warrenites today await words, guidance and focus on Jeffs teachings more so than the BOM, PGP, D&C or the Bible. A concerning trenline that explains alot of the,”…scattering of the flock” mentality in Jeffs perspective.

    I just don’t see how the Warrenites can keep it together with a living prophet held in prison, unavailable for counsel/ceremonies and above questioning his evolving teachings, seems rather doomed to failure.

  245. Interesting link…. how that get Driggs to defending Warren is not obvious to me unless one goes by the moral relativism route.

  246. I think it must be based on a religious persecution theory they are going to try to present as a defense. Problem is that like Drew Darby said a couple of years ago, “pedophilia isn’t a religion.”

  247. Yep, and ‘Reynolds vs. United States’ says a limitation upon ‘Religious Freedom’ is violating an existing felony law and using a tenet of your Faith as your reason is not an employable defense tactic. So we’re not talking persecution but rather perversion statute., namely child sexual assault first and second degree(s).

  248. I wanted to puke when Warren’s new attorney, Deric said “I want to make sure that my client’s constitutional rights aren’t violated and that he is allowed to practice his religion upholds the tenents of his his faith.”

    I hate to be the one to tell Deric, but while you can believe anything you wish, if you put into practice something that breaks the law such as underage marriage and rape then you will be prosecuted.

  249. This quote from Driggs in the last paragraph might show us where the expert testimony could lead: Jeffs’ claim that he was “immoral” was probably just a stolen glimpse at somebody’s bare ankle.

    October 31, 2007

    Polygamist leader said he was ‘immoral’
    UTAH
    The Kansas City Star

    By JENNIFER DOBNER
    Associated Press Writer

    Sitting in jail awaiting trial, the leader of a polygamous sect renounced his role as a prophet and said he had been “immoral” with a sister and daughter decades ago, newly unsealed documents show.

    Warren Jeffs’ attorneys included those statements in documents they filed in July as they sought to keep jail recordings out of his September trial in the arranged marriage of a 14-year-old to her 19-year-old cousin.

    Fifth District Judge James Shumate agreed that the recordings could bias jurors against Jeffs and ordered the documents sealed. He unsealed them Tuesday. …

    Among FLDS members, who cover their bodies from neck to ankle, even small physical gestures would be considered inappropriate, said Ken Driggs, a Georgia lawyer and polygamy expert. As for Jeffs’ “immoral” conduct, “I wouldn’t read too much into it,” Driggs said.

  250. And a link to an NPR roundtable Driggs participated in.

    http://www.wbur.org/npr/14350293/trial-brings-focus-on-polygamy-in-america

  251. Warren Jeffs admitted he was immoral with a daughter and a sister, did he not ? Didn’t one of his sisters claim that he molested her, and she later committed suicide ? Driggs is too much of an apologist here for my taste.

  252. You are right BiB, his sister Valerie is who you are thinking of.

    He was also “immoral” with 30 of his “mothers” whom he married after Rulon died. He impregnated at least 3 of them. It was brought up in Abram’s trial that this is illegal behavior.

    In Abram’s case, he had a child with Ruth Edna Fischer of the swing picture fame.

    In Warren’s case, he had a child with Patricia Keate (x2), Ora Bernice Steed (x3), Velvet Jessop (x1)

  253. Victoria Reynolds and Troy Bowles, ex AUB members, speak out on polygamy – Part I

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/mxstreetteam/2011/07/14/polygamy

  254. Victoria Reynolds and Troy Bowles speak out on polygamy

    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/mxstreetteam/2011/07/21/polygamy-part-two

  255. PLEASE, I encourage you, to come to this blog and comment. We don’t have the understanding you do, and need intelligent, fresh comments!
    Have you seen these?
    Please come! PLEASE COMMENT and help us understand!

    http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/tlc-orders-all-american-muslim-series.html

    http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/sister-wives-concubines-of-cult-of-kody.html

  256. Ah you have a story on Dearbornistan – this is going to get interesting

    I dont think most Americans realize whats going on up there. Hell I dont think Turley knows otherwise he wouldnt have joined Muslims as a class in his plyggy freedom suit.

    BTW the link to the main site is on the blogroll.

  257. Willie Jessop is starting to speak again.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52198150-78/jeffs-jessop-william-prophet.html.csp?page=2

  258. Thanks PT, my favorite line on so many levels: the church “has to come to grips with the conditions of what took place in secret with its leader.”

  259. New article at sltrib about Warren’s upcoming trial. It’s on the frontpage and there’s plenty of apologists trotting out old excuses for why it’s okay. I would encourage anyone that likes to post go tell them to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine.

  260. Video by Eldorado Success shows the Dream Team and several FLDS members.

    Or view it at the Eldorado Success website http://www.myeldorado.net

  261. I am amazed at how the proponents of polygyny overlook its practices by the FLDS Church. What starts out as some unproven claim of religious freedom and freedom of association inbreeds a whole host of additional problems and additional illicit practices. For example, if the multiple marriages are illegal then marrying elsewhere is condoned, albeit a quickie marriage in Nevada or Arizona. Then since the government doesn’t recognize these imagined freedoms then solely religious celestial sealings will be practiced away from the secular world. No need to be duly licensed by the State since this is a religious ceremony. Problemed marriages can receive a ‘release’ which, again, is an power outside of the States venue. Then there is the whole ‘reassignment’ issues which aren’t lawful nor recorded with the State. This leads the FLDS Church far afield from the Laws and System of Justice that are established and legally valid. All of these examples are never debated but show what a ‘house of cards’ that the practice of polygyny creates beyond just the multiple wedlocks. There is no Famil Laws w]established within the US that can address polygyny because the illicit practice is outlawed, if it were existing it would have been made by monogamously majority legislators whom I am sure are wholly unacceptable to the righteous bigamists.

  262. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gqSJ0yzpwVu05w0mtErShzSQttSA?docId=eea81dbac9924c3c8483ffe8d4a6c754

    A report by the AP reporter.

  263. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700165390/Texas-game-warden-got-peak-inside-polygamist-ranch.html?pg=1

  264. Who is the father of Sam Roundy Sr.?

  265. Interest story:

    http://www.sacbee.com/2011/07/23/3789525/texas-game-warden-got-peak-inside.html

    –Too bad AP can’t spell their headline correctly.

  266. ooops… PT already posted the AP story.

  267. New article at sltrib about Warren’s upcoming trial. It’s on the frontpage and there’s plenty of apologists trotting out old excuses for why it’s okay. I would encourage anyone that likes to post go tell them to stick it where the sun doesn’t shine.
    rnr said this on July 23, 2011 at 12:18 PM

    Thanks for the update there rnr, here’s the link so everyone can read the article:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52169510-78/jeffs-texas-trial-evidence.html.csp

    And Thanks to PT for the article about game warden at YFZ.

  268. 3C, which Sam Roundy Sr. are you talking about? Do you have either a middle name or a timeframe for birth?

  269. Born about 1928, no other info, but he’s the one who wrote this letter to TX & Walther:

    http://www.chron.com/commons/persona.html?newspaperUserId=lilathe&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckUserId=lilathe&plckPostId=Blog%3alilathePost%3ad5bd729f-2424-48bd-8430-97a51b702790&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest

    We’ve got a tiny fundy community of Roundys in Idaho and I think we’re related.

  270. John David Roundy is his father.

  271. Sam Roundy said in his letter, that he lives by the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
    Hmmm, don’t think Jesus had 80 some wives and raped young girls. But Sam accepts WSJ as Jesus’s representative on Earth.
    The man drank the kool aid.

  272. Thanks, PT, that helps.

    Amen on the koolaide, C-M.

  273. A thought just came into my head…..little flds children selling kool-aid from a card table on the court house steps as people file in for the trial[s]. Just one sip and you’ll be a true believer…step right up! Just a nickel a cup!

  274. I’ll take my camera just in case mc199.

  275. Special prices for jury members. The press would have a field day.

  276. Old Sam sure lets us know what beliefs he holds, but the old man dances and lies about important stuff like breaking our laws.

  277. Where did the rumor of a “billion-page mountain” of evidence come from? A month or so ago it was 2 billion pages. The Trib article mentions it again. I don’t think anyone realizes how much that really is

  278. Something to do with how many terrabytes of data there is

  279. I see. Maybe someone used a generic conversion. In certain cases perhaps X many MB usually = X many pages.

    I just know that in terms of actual 8.5″ X 11″ pages, they seized nowhere close to a billion. If so, there really would be plenty of work for 7 attorneys — or maybe even 700!

  280. http://www.religionnewsblog.com/25659/attorneys-trial-dates-of-flds-leader-warren-jeffs-shifted-again

    “…attorney Jeff Kearney, who told state District Judge Barbara Walther about others describing to him boxes of evidence that, if stacked floor to ceiling, could practically fill the courtroom.

    Walther, sounding understanding, told Kearney that she believed there were some 13 terabytes of evidence also stored digitally.”

    What Do 12 Terabytes-Worth of Data Look Like?
    http://www.neatorama.com/2008/07/08/terabyte/

    12 terabytes of data are roughly equivalent to:

    – 5,280,000,000 single-spaced typewritten pages

  281. hmmm…well i’m the anon for the above post…not sure how i did that

  282. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-512043/Muslim-husbands-wife-extra-benefits-ministers-recognise-polygamy.html

  283. I remember that Kearney made some reference to it at the pretrials he attended.

  284. Good summary of the flds trials and hearings in Texas to date.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/23/jeffs-to-join-associates-prosecuted-by-state/

  285. Chemist, he messed up Leroy. It’s his claim of being indigent that was appealed and then when the 3rd Court of Appeals ruled with Judge Walther he filed a Petition for Discretionary Review with the Court of Criminal Appeals. He hasn’t even begun his appeal on his 75 year sentence yet.

  286. PT: Thanks for ptoviding more accurate informatrion on LeRoy.

  287. Should have been providing

  288. Happy Pioneer Day everyone!

  289. Happy Pioneer Day, TC !!

  290. What (if anything) are you doing to celebrate, BTW ?

  291. Thanks BiB! We aren’t doing anything. I meant to find a small town celebration around here to take the kids to, but have been too busy. When I was growing up there were always big celebrations at the parks and we all wore prairie dresses and bonnets and did square dances, maypoles, gunny sack races etc.

  292. Uh-oh. Looks like Flora’s self induced hypnosis has kicked in again:

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/24/us-texas-polygamist-trial-idUSTRE76N2BJ20110724

    Sure hope she never becomes a history teacher.

  293. I’m wondering if she meant a picture of Rulon Jeffs and the paper just printed “Jeffs”…it makes a better story. But, yeah, her timelime appears off, if WJ has only been in power about 10yrs and she’s been out longer than that.
    She use to post here but, hasn’t in some time, that I’m aware of. I’m glad to see the larger media has picked up the story and is shedding more light on the trial. HLN says they’ll be covering it…but probably from outside the court, since no mention of cameras in the courtroom have been mentioned. We shall see, starting tomorrow….unless there is ANOTHER delaying tactic.

  294. It is my understanding, from several people who would know, that Flora was NOT forced to marry her cousin. She married Phillip so that she could become emancipated and leave the cult.

  295. TC, maybe have a BBQ with the fam ?

  296. Excellent, BiB – and we’re all headed up to the pool!

  297. When Flora married her cousin Leroy Johnson was still in charge.

  298. I think that Warren Jeffs has run out of delaying tactics. He will have to resort to feigning medical illness next.

  299. True, mc199. Flora wasn’t forced to marry anyone. Yet, there may have been a little pressure from the parents because of what her and Phillip were “caught”…as it were… doing a few nights before. I felt sorry for them both.

    And like Anonymous said. Her time line is way off again. The author of the article simply amplified it. Nobody from the crick hardly knew WSJ till the early 90’s. And for damn sure nobody was EVER “taught to revere as son and heir of the “prophet, seer and revelator of God,”

    Another thigh-slapper is the idea of a “Hildale, Utah compound.” Definitely not in the 80’s or 90’s. (But there sure is one now!) Both houses she lived at didn’t even have gates! The only fences were about 3 feet high barbed-wire fences around the gardens.

  300. Yes, obviously Flora (assuming she wasn’t misrepresented) is revising history…………again.

    I’d like to give a short chronology directly related to my experiences as a non-FLDS member………

    I dated (in secret of course) an FLDS girl during the winter and spring of 1996-1997. This girl attended Alta Academy during her junior high years. She told me personally that Warren would use a yardstick to raise her dress to see if she was wearing underwear; she said he would do this almost everytime he saw her when he caught her alone.

    I asked her if she thought Warren would make a power-play considering that Rulon Jeffs was aging. She said she would NEVER follow a man like Warren.

    Fourteen years later and she is immersed in the FLDS. I only post this to prove that Warren wasn’t on the radar of the FLDS people during that time. He began to surface about 1999 and on.

  301. I would suggest that you read the article which was referenced more closely. Flora is only quoted twice from Reuters sources, and both of her quotes are accurate. The balance of the article was written by a reporter who obviously doesn’t have his timeline right. I would not attribute to Flora inaccurate statements written by a reporter.

  302. Yes, Flora’s quotes do sound accurate. But where do think Jim Forsyth got his other information? Flora is forever saying that she was forced by the FLDS to marry Phillip. According to Phillip, it’s not so. And according to Ben Bistline, it’s not so. Ben told Flora she would become emancipated if she got married and then she could leave the group. According to Ben, it was Flora’s choice to marry Phillip; she was NOT “forced by leaders of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS) to marry her older cousin.” as the story says.

  303. From “Church of Lies” page 98 – 99
    ” I suddenly remembered what DA Paul Graff had told me : marriage was a genuine opportunity to escape my abusive family. I was still a minor, but if I married Phillip with my parents’ consent, I would be legally emancipated – an adult ! And Phillip and I would be living out of town, where the people of Colorado City couldn’t tell me what to do.”

    From Church of Lies page 95 – Flora’s father is speaking –
    “Your uncle Fred says that you are going to marry Phillip.”
    Flora’s Response : “What ? No ! Why does Uncle Fred want me to marry Phillip?”
    Father’s response : “You know why.”

    Seems like a little coercion mixed in with the hope of liberation, doesn’t it ?

  304. I read Flora’s excellent book too. And God bless her for writing. But if we are to be held accountable for every detail that we write about our own histories, we’re probably all in grave trouble. This the nature of both trauma and memory.

  305. Well said, Third Cousin. I believe the statement in the article is the journalist’s interpretation of the preceding passages in her book. She did not exactly have a free choice in the matter.

  306. I can go with coercion mixed with hope.

    Anyway, on a gossiping note, the people in the Crick don’t believe Warren will be at trial. They think he will ascend to heaven. Do you think it will happen in Eldorado or on the Courthouse Square in Angelo? I’d hate to miss the big event.

  307. No Motion to Transfer Venue was filed on Friday by defense counsel. That’s 2 days in a row he hasn’t gotten it done after assuring Judge Walther he would. It’s late anyway, it was due back on July 11, but due to Warren playing ring around the attorneys, that date came and went with nothing filed.

    Tomorrow starts jury selection. How exciting. I wonder what I should wear.

  308. wonder if they’ll play him off as ascended even if he is imprisoned? that’d definitely be something, wouldn’t it.

  309. I think that’s the idea and then Lyle will speak for Warren who is speaking for Rulon.

  310. Ahhh, triple hearsay….sounds like a tactic worth trying, since all else has failed. Maybe they should go all the way back to Joseph Smith and have an audience of channelers. Let the jury hear from the original guy who started this mess!

  311. Sounds like a plan, mc199.
    Let’s hear it from the horse’s mouth, as they say.

  312. Let the trial begin, here’s a story on security for Jeffs, don’t think he will be going anywhere except the defendant’s chair.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/jul/24/security-plans-in-place-for-jeffs-trial/

  313. Hello All,
    As some might of gathered, I started a Sister Wives blog for snarkiness of the show. After getting some education on the Mormon beliefs VS Christianity, it really has become a place to educate those that are watching the true seriousness of what’s going on.
    I need some help. If ANYONE would like to write a little on a few basic questions, please let me know. I have many! Of course, it will be anonymous.
    One question I would really like answered is: If they all believe in the Basic principles of Joseph Smith, then how can one group, say the LDS, call another group, say, the AUB, not Mormon? If you believe in the Joseph Smith rhetoric, wouldn’t you be a Mormon?

    Plus, questions about the women’s treatment.
    If anyone would would bless me with a small writing on my question, i would be grateful.
    If you would like t write about anything else to educate us, let me know. Just remember, this group is not, um, scholarly, so you need to put it in simple terms.
    I pray for a little help!
    lovetvreality@gmail.com

  314. New words from the brave souls of Colonia LeBaron.

    http://www.nl-aid.org/continent/latin-america/“trying-to-combat-drugs-with-violence-is-turning-mexico-into-a-graveyard”-julian-lebaron/

  315. For Poly,

    On your question about groups calling themselves mormon – one way scholars have treated that is to refer to a broader “mormon movement” with all of the various sects, including the mainstream church, deriving from the religious movement spurred by the beliefs and writings of Joseph Smith. The mainstream church clearly gets offended when the other sects call themselves “mormon” because it has tried so hard to distance itself from its earlier more controversial beliefs and practices, not to mention from all that gets into the newspapers.

  316. Who the bloody heck is in charge of FOX13 news??? I was watching them (my local news) this morning and they had a small segment on the Jeffs trial. This is what they said…

    Jeffs, who is charged with two counts of sexual assault has the backing of a one-hundred million dollar trust.

    I kid you not….that was it.

    Not rape of 20 or more underage girls, not fraud, not conducting underage marriages, nothing about the millions of pages of state evidence.

    Just two counts of sexual assault with the backing of a ton of money. Apologist much???

    *still steaming*

    huff…pufff…

  317. Poly, the word mormon is loaded in arguable definitions and contexts but the original label as proclaimed by the brethren was to proudly differentiate themselves from Christians and choose a hero from the ‘Book of Mormon’ to give this new label a more distinctive seperation. Like the original conversions into the church itself the name for their congregation morphed. Sydney Rigdon converted most od his followers from a ‘Church of Christ’ group to Joseph smit, Jr. and this name was morphed into “Church of Jesus Christ” by the prophet. The name later morphed, again, into “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints” Today’s LDS claim more identity of being Christians than when the Mormon label first came to be used to describe themselves. Since they believe in a living prophet and believe in several additional books of scripture many Christians today state emphatically that Mormons don’t fit within the meaning/definition of the term Christians.

  318. That hundred million is pie in the sky just like the 5 gajillion pages of evidence.

    With the market down, and few outsiders wanting to live in shortcreek, their resources are probably a fraction.

    Not to mention he has exed some 63 main wage earners from the flock.

    Jeffs has spent tens of millions and has in jeopardy another tens of millions.

    Why dont they say Jeffs broke the 100 million pliggy bank and its a scramble to find the pennies in the dirt.

    Those seven attorneys of his will suck them dry.

  319. HLN just had an interesting snippet…..Willie the Thug apparently told Lindsay Whitehurst [SLT] after ” he learned of the evidence…that he was able to see it before it became public…that he came to feel that Warren was [in his words] morally indefensible”. When did Wille get ‘morals’???
    It also showed pictures of a summons’s taped to the front gate of YFZ… for Wednesday.” And, if they don’t show up, what does that say about the man they still call prophet”.
    I still can’t get past…Willie…morals…

  320. Who the bloody heck is in charge of FOX13 news???

    I’ve been emailing a few TV stations, if they get it wrong, to refer here for the correct SCOOP along with documents to back them up. Your station reallly got it wrong!

  321. I shouldn’t watch any local Salt Lake City news anymore… even if they had the correct information, I bet they’d still twist it. My ten gallon hat off to TX who doesn’t sneak around Utahs migrated dirty laundry (YFZ)

  322. AOL posted a story using the same ‘backed by a $110M land trust’ quote. So, I added my comments about that…we’ll see if it gets posted!

  323. Poly, for your info and for wild entertainment for the rest of us, here is an article from the LDS church newsroom on the use of the word “mormon.”

    http://newsroom.lds.org/article/use-of-the-word-mormon-in-news-reports

  324. Love how the above article says:

    “Polygamists and polygamist organizations that occasionally make the news are not dissident wings of the Church or fundamentalists. ”

    They were one church until polygamy was outlawed. Those who still beileved in the orginal doctrine of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, ect eventually formed into todays FLDS.

    They are too dissident wings,

    Actually, one might argue that the LDS church is the dissent group since they turned away their original teachings.

    Do your history before you report ppl….

  325. Isaac Wyler in an interview with the Daily Beast, says he thinks that not one of WS Jeffs wives will oblige their subpoenas and come forward to respond to the Witness list to be called, if requested.

    Explanation for the ‘Motel style’ building erected on the YFZ Raunch is that the FLDS Church followers believe that Prophet Jeffs will soon be released and this newly constructed building will be his home. I believe that Warren Jeffs will soon leave the Tom Green Courthouse to be remanded to the State of Texas prison authorities. Prophecies are a funny business, you can’t be right all the time, but I’m fairly certain that I’m right on this predicition. I thought that this was supposed to be ‘Ascension Monday’, when the Baliff convened the Court he said,”All, please, rise” and all eyes were on Jeffs but he just stood up.

  326. Thanks All!
    Alas, I am still confused. To me, A Joseph Smith believer is a Mormon. Why can’t I get that out of my head?
    All the other little kickers, like Polygamy, still have the same basic beliefs?
    It’s like they are name calling, No, I’m a Mormon, No, I’m one!
    Remember that Dr. Suess book: The Sneetches: Because the star-bellied sneetches are being prejudicial to the plain-bellied Sneetches, they fuss and fight and make a machine to get stars, only to have the others get rid of theirs?
    heehee, I may have my new post!!!

  327. Unlike most of todays LDS families, many FLDS families can actually trace their roots back to early Mormonism.

    According to Wiki, the founder of Mormon Fundamentalism, John W. Wooley, converted to the church in 1837. Wooley was an errand boy for Joseph Smith. His father was a close friend and business manager to Brigham Young and also eventually served as a bishop.

    John W Wooley was a Lieutenant in the Nuavoo Legion. In Utah territory, he served as constable, sheriff, etc. Later he was personally ordained a high priest by Brigham young himself.

    In 1910 Joseph F. Smith personally presided over one of Wooleys marriages (Annie Fisher).

    Wooley was also a biological Uncle to Spencer W. Kimball, the LDS prophet that lifted the curse of Kane from the black race.

    http://fldsview.blogspot.com/2008/06/john-w-woolley-prophet.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wickersham_Woolley

  328. In reference to:

    Anonymous said this on July 25, 2011 at 4:15 PM

    The Cruse of Cain originated long before Joseph Smith and was taught until the mid 20th century by the Southern Baptist Church. I heard of this curse growing up in Baptist Churches in Texas many years ago before I every heard of LDS .

    From Wikipedia article:

    “The split between the Northern and Southern Baptist organizations arose over slavery and the education of slaves. At the time of the split, the Southern Baptist group used the curse of Cain as a justification for the practice. In fact, most 19th and early 20th century Southern Baptist congregations in the southern United States taught that there were two separate heavens; one for blacks, and one for whites.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_and_mark_of_Cain

  329. In the very early morning on today’s date in 1953 the Arizona governor invaded Short Creek, set up a government camp, and bussed all the children out. Right or wrong, this is a critical date in many memories.

    Here is a link to the photos taken during the raid. Thank you Mountain West Digital Library:

    http://mwdl.org/index.php/browse/byInstitution/19?sortId=&recordsPage=270

  330. Weird stuff going on in the Appeals cases of Keate, Lehi Jeffs, Abram Jeffs, Leroy Jessop, Raymond Jessop, and Keith Dutson Jr.

    Raymond’s case has been set for Submission on Oral argument for 10/26/2011 and he’s still asking for extensions to submit a reply brief. He’s also filed a Motino to Substitute attorney. I’m pretty sure that will be to put the Udashen brothers in the case, but it hasn’t been revealed yet.

    Lehi’s case had oral arguments denied, which isn’t surprising since his cases are identical to Emacks. Emack had oral arguments on the search warrant and brief arguments on the bigamy. Both of his are before the court. But it looks like he too has a Motion to substitute attorney and a Motion for extension of time on both of his cases.

    Leroy still has his petition for discretionary review pending before the Court of Criminal Appeals and hasn’t even started his sexual assault appeal, nevertheless, he has a motion for extension of time and motion to substitute counsel filed.

    Abram’s case has the State’s brief due 7/28 and the Appellant still filed a motion for extension of time. Wonder what that’s about. They also filed a motion to substitute counsel. Whoever filed these wasn’t too bright to not look at what is pending before filing motions across the cases.

    Dutson is in the same boat as Abram. They filed a motion for extension of time even though it is the State’s response which is due. Some thing defy logic.

    Keate’s case is ready to be set, but still had a motion for extension of time and to substitute counsel filed.

    This just makes you go WHAT THE HECK!!! I think someone is just chugging out stuff for billable hours.

  331. TC, thanks for the history reminder and that wonderful historical website. It’s certainly a critical date in my memory.

    I can never look at that picture of the handicapped child without my gut wrenching. So sad!

  332. Ad hoc, my grandmother told similar stories – in Davis County her father and all his siblings were rounded up and sent off to strangers more than once.

    Here’s more photos from the 1953 raid:

    http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/results.php?CISORESTMP=/cdm4/results.php&CISOVIEWTMP=/cdm4/item_viewer.php&CISOMODE=grid&CISOGRID=thumbnail,A,1;title,A,1;sourcd,A,0;creato,200,0;none,A,0;20;title,subjec,none,none,none&CISOBIB=title,A,1,N;sourcd,A,0,N;creato,200,0,N;none,A,0,N;none,A,0,N;20;title,none,none,none,none&CISOTHUMB=20%20(4×5);title,none,none,none,none&CISOTITLE=20;title,none,none,none,none&CISOHIERA=20;sourcd,title,none,none,none&CISOTYPE=link&CISOOP1=all&CISOFIELD1=title&CISOBOX1=Short+Creek&CISOOP2=all&CISOFIELD2=sourcd&CISOBOX2=&CISOOP3=all&CISOFIELD3=creato&CISOBOX3=&CISOOP4=all&CISOFIELD4=CISOSEARCHALL&CISOBOX4=&c=all&CISOROOT=/USHS_Class

  333. Nice photos, thanks for the link TC !

  334. Mike Watkiss is reporting that the Jury pool has been whittled down to a 207 total and today more direct questions of individual jurymen to empanel will begin. Pending are motions for change of venue and evidence suppression. Included in the evidence syppression will be a audible voice recording of one of the accused sexual assaults while it transpired that is in evidence and proposed to be heard at trial, if allowable. I would like to know what the plural wives subpoenas have produced in responses to the witness call list.

  335. An AUDIO recording of the assault??? I am utterly disgusted. But what great evidence!

  336. The subpena of the wives of Jeffs should be interesting, if they fail to appear, they are subject to arrest warrants being issued, since the address listed are all at YFZ, it means search warrants could be issued for each wife, allowing LE to enter YFZ and search every building at the compound to arrest the wives. IF the FLDS leadership has any common sense they will make sure all the wives show up, with a ” I take the 5th” .

    But we all know that they won’t, so a second raid at YFZ becomes a real possibility.

  337. CAJim

    where did you hear the report by Mike Watkiss? thanks

  338. Here it is juliekan:

    http://www.azfamily.com/video/?id=126174353&sec=507207

  339. Thanks Proud Texan. I’m trying to post these links in as many places as i can.

  340. http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/26/warren-jeffs-seeks-to-control-polygamist-sect-from-jail/

    $3,000 in one month for phone calls from jail.

    The worst thing about that is the people on the other end have to listed to Warren’s endless drone.

  341. Recording the act? How horribly disgusting. Who would do such a thing and why?

  342. Older anonymous,
    I have heard repeatedly of the existence of an audible tape as part of the red cadillac treasure trove…. I am somewhat dubious, because I have never tracked the source of the information except to a comment made on an interview by author John Krakower (spelling?). On the other hand Jeffs is a megalomaniac, and he has been working very hard at ratcheting up the control down at the Creek both of which support the theory of a sex tape. I do remember reading (source is lost from the brain) that one of Naomi’s jobs was to instruct the children on how to “get close” to him. I think that was in an account of the trafficked child brides from Canada.

    Anybody care to clean up my account?

  343. OlderAnon, I am not sure yet what the full explanation is for the recording but I think there was some kind of a ceremonial importance placed upon it, possibly tied to a Temple ritual. Erecting the YFZ Temple would include reviving past secreted rituals and/or ceremonies. Voice recording them couldn’t have been possible in the 1800s, so why it was made this time is a puzzlement, preserving a record for posterity may prove to be the motive. Given the focus placed upon the third floor ceremonial crib/bed I would speculate that these two items are likely interrelated. Hopefully, the trial will answer these unknowns, certainly getting more interesting.

  344. Wow, the famous bed! That should interest the media.
    Wonder if the jury will buy that the gardener needed it to rest.
    Am glad that most of the bad stuff is coming out, as it should.

  345. HHG and CaJim, very interesting and disturbing. Sometimes you get the impression that there is a whole lot of exaggeration going on, but then another little gem surfaces and the evidence gets stronger and stronger. How hard it must be for those who have finally opened their eyes to the truth.

  346. Hey you guys just wanted you guys to see what I see. This story broke 6 minutes ago. http://helenair.com/news/national/some-would-be-jurors-already-decided-on-jeffs/article_c3a57e78-228a-523d-a0bd-8bf8b32d9559.html

    The comments made were dated Dec. 2010

    So… here is my problem with stories coming out like this. Is the story true? Is the story current? Is it an old story with old comments? Is it a new story with old comments?

    One time I bought old fishing line from a guy that said it was new. It wasn’t. It was sticky and all knotted up. Brought it back and he said the fishing line was new to me. Never bought fishing line from the guy again. But I kept going back so the guy had to look me in the eye.

    He couldn’t.

  347. Walton, Im not following…..what comments were dated Dec. 2010?

  348. Comments to the story that had “broke” moments before my posting the link.
    Here is the link to the comments. http://helenair.com/news/national/some-would-be-jurors-already-decided-on-jeffs/article_c3a57e78-228a-523d-a0bd-8bf8b32d9559.html?mode=comments

    Curmudgeon said on: December 29, 2010, 8:50 am
    Them thar po-lice are interfering with Brother Jeff’s freedom of religion.

    Doncha know? Jayyyzzus told him to do it…hallelujah, brethern and
    sistern…kin I git an “Amen”?

    Purple said on: December 29, 2010, 8:09 am
    Hell, one wife if more than enough. Why the hell would anyone want more than one?

  349. Saw this article that says that Obama is vetting a man who is a legal consultant to Utah Senator Mike Lee for the US attorney job in Utah, that has been open for 18 months. The man’s name is BARLOW. David Barlow. Lee believes that federal child labor laws, FEMA, food stamps, the FDA, Medicaid, income assistance for the poor, and even Medicare and Social Security violate the Constitution and this Barlow fellow is his legal consultant! Does the idea that the chief federal prosecutor for Utah having a name of Barlow scare anyone but me??? Anyone know what Barlow’s background is?

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705376097/White-House-considering-Republican-for-US-Attorney-for-Utah.html

  350. Seems like you want to set a high bar for Barlow?

  351. Anderson Cooper on CNN to report on Warren Jeffs trial.

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/26/warren-jeffs-seeks-to-control-polygamist-sect-from-jail/

  352. Nice to hear you Betty. I’ll bet your hoping none of us are named Barlow 🙂

  353. As far as I know he’s not a follower of WSJ.

  354. Nope, Third cousin, just hoping someone can tell me this guy is not FLDS or other fundamentalist. What really rang out for me was thinking that child labor laws are unconstitutional. Made my teeth itch.

  355. I gotcha Betty. Just FYI, there are many mainstream mormon Utah Barlows that aren’t fundies. Very common name in SLC.

  356. For those interested, here is an historical article on the short creek raid in ’53. For some of us, right or wrong, these are our people. However you feel, it changed lives.

    https://www.dialoguejournal.com/wp-content/uploads/sbi/articles/Dialogue_V23N02_17.pdf

  357. Betty, during the Utah rape as an accomplice trial for Warren Jeffs, the lead attorney for the Utah Attorney General’s office was Craig Barlow. His grandfather was related (brother or cousin) to John Y. Barlow, who stared the Short Creek polygamous group.

    There are many connections to polygamy in Utah – that is usually the primary reason/problem why nothing has been done abut the polygamy problems. “Hey, Grandpa had 5 wives, and we turned out OK” is often the “turn a blind eye” mantra. Utah AG Mark Shurtleff’s grandfather was arrested and sent to prison for co-habitation/polygamy. Shurtleff proudly hangs grandpa’s convict photo (wearing prison-striped uniform) in his office on the wall.

    However, Craig Barlow was an incredible prosecutor in Warren’s Utah case. He probably felt the disdain for Warren’s evil ways as if his name had been Jones and he had no genealogical association with Short Creek.

    I wouldn’t worry too much about this David Barlow dude. There is probably some polygamy history in his family, but they are more than likely now “Temple Recommend” Mormons.

    His association with Utah politicians such as Mike Lee, however, is something to make you scared of. But so is Orrin Hatch, Jon Huntsman, Mitt Romney, etc, etc, etc.

    Beware! The Mormons may end up running America!!!!! Every vote counts these days. Get out and VOTE!

  358. I don’t know if this has been posted already or not. And I also am not sure if this address will work correctly–hopefully it does. The cnn page below has a number of interviews regarding jeffs/flds that I found interesting–you might too. I’m so glad these issues are finally getting air time. It’s good to see so many experts and ex-members explaining what really goes on.

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/07/27/texas.polygamist.jeffs/index.html?hpt=ju_c2

  359. That link above goes to the main video of an interview of Mike Watkiss–excellent. But also, a little further down the article are two more videos that are good too (I think they both have Kathy Jo Nicholson).

  360. Thanks for the run down on Craig Barlow. That DOES make me feel better. Yes, I read about Mike Lee and think he is completely nuts. Not just from a different political perspective, but from a whole different planet. He worries me A LOT. Child labor laws and FEMA UNCONSTITUTIONAL? Huh?

  361. Wow. Here is a link to the 1953 Time Magazine article on the Short Creek Raid. It’s entitled “The Great Love-Nest Raid.”

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,822887,00.html

  362. Thanks for all of the great links, TC.

  363. A new post at the Polygamist’s Daughter Blog :
    http://thepolygamistsdaughter.wordpress.com/2011/07/27/legalizing-polygamy/

  364. I don’t mean to distract from the festivities, but is anyone up to signing a petition ?

    http://www.wluml.org/node/7461#navigation

  365. Have you guys seen this?
    http://stoppolygamyincanada.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/flds-no-longer-in-sundre/

    West Fraser Forestry bought out Sun Pine Logging and all the FLDS property in Sundre, AB. I don’t know exactly when, but my very reliable informant told me she is 99.9% sure there are no lost boys left in Sundre.

  366. BiB – that is truly disturbing.

  367. Please come and read our new post. Please leave your comments. Thanks!
    http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/07/mormon-fundamentalism-and-racism-sister.html

    Edited by FLDSTexas – Please only make 1 post with the link to your site. It’s on the blogroll and our viewers/members can get there on their own if they so choose to do so.

  368. jeez I feel like I’m being spammed by the above anon

  369. West Fraser Forestry bought out Sun Pine Logging and all the FLDS property in Sundre, AB. I don’t know exactly when, but my very reliable informant told me she is 99.9% sure there are no lost boys left in Sundre.

    They high tailed it out of town because they thought the Canadian government was moving in on them, that’s why.

  370. Well, this video has everything. An interview with Willie Jessop about how he currently views Warren, a mention of the Canadian case, and an interview with an active FLDS female about warren and plural marriage.

  371. Ariel: I agree that the sister wive’s blog is spamming on this blog. I have absolutely no interest in reading or commenting on their blog. Just a matter of time and priority.

  372. Please note: I have opened up the comment section of this Blog to the membership.

    Those willing to post Libel and Slander against the F LDS Church and its membership may do so, but be aware that I WILL personally sue your G*# damned asses off in a Court of Law.

    Now, let’s hear all this b*llsh!t you’ve been spouting as you hide in anonymity.

    This is more crap from Bill. Does he really think he has the ability to sue on behalf of the FLDS church. He must be on some pretty good stuff, cuz he’s have big delusions of importance.

    Edited by FLDSTexas to edit the cuss words.

  373. Ariel and Chemist, I have deleted one of the sister-wives blog posts and left a message for them to stop posting more than once about the blog. If that doesn’t work then other steps will be taken.

  374. Warrens threats were a lot meaner. Threatening illness and death…

    …. ill bill is just childs play next to the “most evil man on earth”

    –Warren’s words

  375. The sister wives blog will gain interest once this trial is over and Turley’s hits the news again.

    In the meantime, the Warren Jeffs child molesting trial is going to make all these pliggys look nasty.

  376. The treatment and temperament of the FLDS Church sect members will not be much affected by a guilty verdict of WS Jeffs, the reaction to the series of convictions, already, gives proof to this view. The noteworthy display in the current trial is the aloof and arrogant demeanor of a prophet who preaches sedition as an axiom to his faithful and separatist stance from this judicial proceedings. The States of Utah and Arizona that have given these zealot sects free reign to breed this brand of anti-democracy and pro-theocracy viewpoints has lead to a YFZ Ranch full of die-hard prophet loyalists that view fellow Americans as EVIL ‘Gentiles’, an outrageous indoctrination of a rogue religious sect that is normally secreted away and not left exposed to the general public.

    CAJim

  377. Thank you flds TEXAS admin.

  378. I think it is interesting that Shirtless has finally asked Texas for the evidence to look for Utah crimes.

    Hopefully when this trial is over the tapes of his phone calls will be released and everyone can listen to him kicking people out. I’ll bet he mentions the apostates in the crick. It will also be interesting to see if he set the book burning in motion.

  379. Warren Jeffs says,”…this is not a fly-by-night religious organization”, huh? Wasn’t he on the FBI Ten Most Wanted list when he was arrested with a Cadillac ‘Escalade’ full of fugitive accoutrements? Wigs, cash, pre-paid charge cards, dozen cell phones and other disguises? Didn’t the UEP Trust get left abandoned and needed a court appointed Trustee? Wasn’t Seth Jeffs charged with Federal ‘aiding and abetting’ a known fugitive and placed on probation? Wasn’t a written pamphlet,”Warning to the Nation” sent to Congress and this Administration? Haven’t there been a series of felony convictions for sexual assault?

    Just how much more ‘fly-by-night’ can they get to be seen as one of the flakiest religious sects in the Rocky Mountain States? Sorry, Warren but your organization’s MO is to perform under the shadows of darkness and outside of the Press & Public’s knowledge, especially since you became ‘Head Corn-flake’.

    CAJim

  380. BARLOW, LINDA RAE
    Birth Date: 03/31/54
    Address : 265 NORTH RICHARD RD, COLORADO CITY, AZ
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    20:43:50 07/29/11 Andresen, Adam WCSO

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    41-6A-710(1)(A) IMPROPER LANE TRAVEL CM WCJ7 92.00 [No Payments Made]
    41-6A-526 ALCOHOL- OPEN CONTAIN CM WCJ7 100.00 [No Payments Made]
    41-6A-502 DUI-1st,2nd OFFENSE BM WCJ7 1615.00 [No Payments Made]

  381. http://www.lvrj.com/news/feds-working-colorado-city-corruption-probe-126419613.html?ref=613+%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.lvrj.com%2Fnews%2Ffeds-working-colorado-city-corruption-probe-126419613.html%3Fref%3D613

    Federal authorities have been conducting a corruption investigation in Colorado City, Ariz., this week.

    Mohave County Sheriff Tom Sheahan said FBI agents and others are focusing on allegations involving city government and the town marshal’s office.

    “I can confirm that we’ve been working with Department of Justice officials from the Civil Rights Division in Washington, D.C.,” Sheahan said. “We have been working together on various issues for close to two years and they’re following up on some of the information.”

    Sheahan said he is not at liberty to disclose further details.

    Colorado City and the neighboring community of Hildale, Utah, are home to some 6,500 members of a polygamy practicing sect, the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

    Church leader Warren Jeffs, 55, is on trial in Texas on child sexual assault charges.

  382. BARLOW, ELLIOT CECIL
    Birth Date: 10/29/86
    Address : 531 N MAIN ST, LaVerkin, UT
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    19:47:00 07/29/11 McConnell, Stan WCJL

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    COMMITMENT COMMITMENT-COURT ORDE BM WCJ7 0.00 [No Payments Made]

  383. WILLIAMS, JEROLD NATHAN JR
    Birth Date: 07/27/87
    Address : 265 N HOMESTEAD STREET, Colorado City, AZ
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    12:58:53 07/28/11 Jacobsen, Andre WCJL

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    WARRANT-CASH WARRANT-CASH ONLY BM WCJ6 728.00 [No Payments Made]

  384. PT: Great news on the corruption investigation by the feds. Hope it leads to something.

  385. You and me both chemist.

  386. I think it is interesting that Shirtless has finally asked Texas for the evidence to look for Utah crimes.

    Hopefully when this trial is over the tapes of his phone calls will be released and everyone can listen to him kicking people out. I’ll bet he mentions the apostates in the crick. It will also be interesting to see if he set the book burning in motion.

    Proud Texan said this on July 30, 2011 at 11:48 AM

    If you listen to the news clip that Ben just did with Shurtleff, Mark Shurtleff said he is waiting for Texas to hand him all the evidence so that they could look thru it and then decide if there is anything there to warrant arrests or crimes. That they have been unable to do anything because they don’t have the evidence.

    And before closing Ben Winslow mentioned that all Fox news had to do was file something with the state of Texas and they were able to get information.

    IF Fox news could get the info -so could Shurtleff had he asked. Shurtleff will sit on any and all info just like they did with the Kingston investigation.

    The mobster/gangster movie about the cop that went undercover to bust the mobs didn’t even last this long. How much more investigating needs to be done?

    If these govt. agencies are not part of the solution then they are part of the problem. not just my opinion but fact.

  387. http://www.azcentral.com/photo/News/Other/19629#phototop

    A photo pictorial

    http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/07/31/20110731colorado-city-flds-church-influence.html

    and news story.

    Edited: Moved Proud Texan’s post to the correct thread.

  388. holy shit. photo number 10 looks an awful lot like my little brother, but I could be wrong. also, that’s not a “double bird” he’s just doing the peace sign wave thing.

  389. Anybody know how the de-certification movement is going?
    The trials of the fire department mis-use of funds?
    etc.?
    I know the UEP case is in the federal courts now… when does that pick up with decisions, etc.?
    How about the civil rights cases that have been filed?

  390. HHG:

    Have heard nothing about de-certification of the Short Creek towns. Proud Texan posted this link aboit a federal investifgation of corruption in Short Creek, presume the fire dept. would be part of that.

    http://www.lvrj.com/news/feds-working-colorado-city-corruption-probe-126419613.html?ref=613+%3Chttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.lvrj.com%2Fnews%2Ffeds-working-colorado-city-corruption-probe-126419613.html%3Fref%3D613

  391. Thanks chemist.

    on another note… could you please email me? I think you know how to reach me….I would like your advice on something.

  392. This video sheds a lot light when it comes to the brainwashing of the fundamental LDS.

  393. Query: Apparently about ten years ago it was estimated that mainstream LDS families converted to the AUB at a rate of six families per month. Does anybody have an opinion on that or know what current rates might be?

  394. Proud Texan thanks for sharing the photo links etc. Earlier there were more photos. Lots more. They must have decided to take some out. but I appreciated seeing them all.
    thanks to those that took the photos and thanks to those that shared.

    There was an old old song by Burl Ives that I thought of when I looked at all the photos. Think of the Children as Roses was the name.

    Third cousin- Are you serious? Is that why the AUB bought up those 900 acres in Utah?

  395. Walton – I understand that figure was put forward by Janet Bennion. I’m curious partly because the AUB conversion rate may provide us a key to why the AUB has never gotten quite as bizarre as the FLDS. Fresh blood.

  396. That was a great find CM. I just finished reading Irene Spencer’s 1st book and have the 2nd one to read.

  397. Query: Apparently about ten years ago it was estimated that mainstream LDS families converted to the AUB at a rate of six families per month. Does anybody have an opinion on that or know what current rates might be?

    Third Cousin said this on July 31, 2011 at 4:22 PM

    I heard from LDS people that this happened when the LDS Church allowed black people to serve as clergy, IE be ordained as members of priesthood. That there were quite a few that left LDS church in protest.

    This is second hand knowledge and have no way to verify what I heard.

    Found this on LDS website-official order allowing blacks to be ordained.

    http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/od/2?lang=eng

  398. Thanks, A Texan.

    I read that there was also an exodus from the AUB in the 1990’s when somebody had accidentally conferred the priesthood upon someone with some small quotient of african ancestry.

    The conversation rate of 6 families per month was cited year 1998 – I was surprised by that.

  399. I bet their names are still on the registry at the LDS Church as is ErviL LeBaron, Rulon Allred and many others.

  400. UEP Fiduciary Fee Ruling :http://www.scribd.com/doc/61461731/UEP-fiduciary-fee-ruling

  401. Query: Apparently about ten years ago it was estimated that mainstream LDS families converted to the AUB at a rate of six families per month. Does anybody have an opinion on that or know what current rates might be?

    I will ask someone who has left the AUB within the past 5 yrs and I will get back to you.

  402. Remember another statistic about the AUB : John Llewellyn reports that 65% of children raised in the AUB leave the group – he reports that he received this information from the leadership of the AUB.

  403. Thanks BIB.

  404. …I bet their names are still on the registry at the LDS Church as is ErviL LeBaron, Rulon Allred and many others…

    walton said this on July 31, 2011 at 10:57 PM

    Walton,
    Are you aware that many polygamists who have died have been posthumously re-baptized and re-sealed to their wives by the mainstream LDS church ? See the archived videos by Helen Radkey on “Polygamy : What Love is This ?” on this topic. After excommunicating the polygamists in life, they re-baptize and re-seal all those men to their wives posthumously.

  405. Here is the link to Helen Radkey’s video on the posthumous re-baptism and posthumous “sealings” of excommunicated polygamists :

    http://www.whatloveisthis.tv/episodes/2010/ep333.htm

  406. Thanks for the link BIB. I will watch the video after my post.

    Yes, I knew the LDS excommunicated those practicing polygamy but yet held the back door open to their Heavens for those they kicked out of the Church. Seems a little backwards doesn’t it?

    Helen R. has shared much information over the years.

    Is it any wonder why there is so much confusion with connecting the LDS Church and the many under the umbrella?

  407. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52310525-78/trust-lindberg-wisan-court.html.csp

    Lindberg chided Shurtleff for “taking actions that undercut the special fiduciary’s ability” to get paid and oversee the trust, specifically referring to a settlement proposal he supported that would have returned the trust to FLDS control.

    Shurtleff called Lindberg’s ruling “shocking.”

    So not only do the tax-payers have to pay the bill on this but they have to pay Shurtleff. Talk about a Double -whammy.

    And then if you figure in all the fraud that is behind the whole picture it looks more like a pyramid of whammies.

    What a kick!

  408. http://www.deseretnews.com/mobile/article/705371171/New-FLDS-commerce-filings-support-Warren-Jeffs-presidency.html

    The most recent documents filed by the church’s registered agent Boyd Knudsen is supported by affidavits from four other church leaders, including Jeffs’ brother, Lyle Jeffs, who is identified as a special counselor to the president and a church bishop.

    The others are church patriarch Vaughan E. Taylor and bishop’s counselors John M. Barlow and Ray M. Barlow.

    Who are these guys?

    And if they are opening up the UEP lands up for rental – is it possible that anyone and everyone could rent those lands for $100? I bet there are a lot of people who have lost their homes in Utah that would love the chance for this kind of deal.

  409. Walton, I bet there are alot of people who have lost their homes it UT and would love this kind of a deal too.

    Namely the ones who have kicked out.

  410. been kicked out*

    Referring to the apostates

  411. The coverage of Warren’s trial is bringing attention to other aspects of the flds too….

    http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/03/bleeding-the-beast-polygamist-sect-accused-of-abusing-welfare/

  412. Thanks for the link. rnr

    Interesting also are the comments made.

    I do wonder how much of the trial will be “in print” or left on line via the different media outlets. Sometimes what a person sees via the internet isn’t always what we see outside the box per se.

    Some from the FLDS have said that there has been listening devices installed concerning phone conversations and often times peoples computers have been hacked.

    Just one more reason topped on a list of many that make people fearful seeking answers or help.

  413. http://www.childbrides.org/dakota_CCC_an_explanation_to_our_readers.html

    The reporter quizzed me about an e-mail news release he had just received from Frank Carroll of Custer who represented a group called the South Dakota Office of the Mormon Anti-Defamation League (MADL).

  414. I thought the judge set a time limit of 6:00,, its now 7:00pm

  415. Thanks DD, I hadn’t heard that yet.

  416. Cover letter and envelopes for mailing were fixed today in the Emack Search Warrant Appeal.

  417. LE released video of Mitchell being interviewed by police after his capture, listen to how he never denies the crime like Warren Jeffs and uses scriptures to deflect questions, IMO like Jeffs at his trial.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52320774-78/mitchell-smart-video-court.html.csp?page=1

    He even sounds kinda like Jeffs IMO!

  418. New post at the Polygamist’s Daughter blog :
    http://thepolygamistsdaughter.wordpress.com/2011/08/05/the-dangers-of-fundamentalism/

  419. Continue this discussion on General Discussion #60 Thread please.

    https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2011/08/07/general-discussion-60/

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