General Discussion #55

Continued from General Discussion #54

William E. (Willie Timpson) Jessop  – The Drama continues.  Background:

“Warren:  I am not the key holder since Father’s passing.”  “Brother William E. Jessop is the key holder.”  To William: “I know of your ordination, that you are the key holder and I sent a note with my signature verifying it.”  “Brother William is an apostle, ordained by Father.”  “I am not the prophet. I never was the prophet.”

It had been rumored that Warren’s father, Rulon had ordained William Timpson (later named William E. Jessop) an apostle. Rulon, while ill, was supposed to ordain William to be an assistant bishop to Fred Jessop, but he slipped and gave William the whole package, including apostleship. At that time, William was told by Warren to ignore the other things, he was just a bishop.

However, now Warren was finally admitting the truth. William was an apostle and thus the valid successor to Rulon.”

http://flds101.blogspot.com/2009/05/flds-history-101-two-days-of-truth.html

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on May 7, 2011.

415 Responses to “General Discussion #55”

  1. If looks matter – this man has a clearer, more normal look about him. Would love to know why he was in line to be the true prophet until Warren usurped the power.

  2. I am curious about the extension by the Utah Commerse Department’s time extension into August to finally rule upon which filed Presiding Bishop for the FLDS Corporation will be recognized as official. The current failsafe ruling is that Warren S. Jeffs will remain of record for now but the extension into August is given to what end? Also, would a conviction or guilty verdict place Warren Jeffs challenger into a different position?

  3. CAJim, I don’t know. I think we need a lawyer to dissect all that. Where’s Ron in Houston when you need him?

    Personally, I am rooting for Willie E Jessop. I don’t know why. My gut tells me he would be a much better leader for those people. He certainly couldn’t be any worse. Only Ervil LaBaron has topped WSJ in the crazy department. The AUB and CPark, flawed as they may be, clearly have much better leadership than the FLDS do at the moment. The difference is a lot bigger than just suburban polygamists vs country polygamists.

  4. English headlines:

    ——————

    “THREE Bin Laden wives in custody: Terror chief’s harem interrogated by Pakistani intelligence

    By DAILY MAIL REPORTER

    Last updated at 1:17 PM on 6th May 2011

    Intelligence service says those held giving ‘valuable information’

    Wife claims she and Al Qaeda leader stayed in the same room for five years”

    Read more:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1384232/Osama-Bin-Laden-raid-Three-wives-interrogated-Pakistani-intelligence.html#ixzz1Lg5JkrLA

  5. This picture of William E. (Timpson) Jessop is a few years old, the official one people hung in their homes when he was the official Bishop of Short Creek.

  6. these people wont have a sane leader till the become sane themselves, “as the people so
    is the Prophet”

  7. Can somebody tell me more about the tradition of hanging the pictures of the prophet and bishop in every home? I find it a little idolatrous. I think we had a picture of Joseph Smith, but not current leadership. When did this begin and is it a voluntary thing?

  8. It’s as old as the Iconoclast movement in the early Byzantine church. Icons’ were pictures of anything holey, some
    church members kept such pictures in there homes and were called Iconoclasts’. Ironically, modern dictionaries define the word “Iconoclast”as “destroyer of long held beliefs”.It’s not surprising that many later attempts too establish authoritarian religious organizations, reverted to these “heretical” practices .

  9. My LDS relatives only hang the portrait of Christ. No Joseph Smith, no Brigham Young, and no Thomas Monson or whatever his name is. Certainly not the local bishop.

    My guess is they hung Willies picture because there was a 6 month or so period where they were instructed by Warren that Jessop was the true prophet.

  10. uncaduff

    Didnt we see that at YFZ, pics of Warren everywhere, even staring down at the beds in the master bedroom?

    Its my understanding there are pics of Joe Smith in living rooms up and down Utah – but in the bedroom – GAH!!

  11. Uncaduff,
    Welcome !!

  12. Stamp,

    I believe that Osama exceeded the permitted number of wives, as I recently heard he had taken a fifth wife. Only 4 permanent wives are permitted in Islam, but a man may have any number of “temporary wives…” Maybe the most recent was only a “temporary wife.”

  13. Is there a time limit on “Temporary”?

    1/2 hour to 20 years or so?

    I recall a sad story of some islamic guy taking a child / teen while visiting someone, I dont recall if that was Osama though.

  14. Wives with hourly rates? Yuck.

  15. In this photo he looks a bit like Tom Arnold, Rosanne Barr’s ex.

    IRT photos in the bedroom our family tradition was that no ones eyes were to look at the marriage bed, period. Its meant to be a private place.

  16. RICO, Mohammad’s reasoning to limit wives to four (4) was reasoned upon his observation thet this restriction didn’t apply toward female slaves owned by faithful followers. Alas, sex slaves have been in shortened supply, so ignoring the four wife limit is ignored by the more enriched faithful. President John Taylor once was quoted as saying that the upper limit of Mormon plural wives was 999 maximum. Warren S. Jeffs has the highest number of celestial wives that I have ever heard tell of existing, over 80+ wives and still counting.

  17. I would be very surprised if the current dispute over Presiding Bishop resolves into a winner take all scenario. I think it will be more likely resolved by yet another split within the FLDS Church group and a fracture up in Bountiful, Canada seems likely. Prophet Jeffs being inmcarcerated leaves only his cohorts to operate the sects busnesses and day-to-day decisions which will institute an unstable control on the sheeple.

  18. We have only pictures of Christ and of a couple of our favorite LDS temples in our home.

  19. Yes CAJim, slaves don’t count towards the 4 wife limitation in Islam.

  20. Here is a reference on Islamic temporary marriage. The marriage “expires” on an agreed upon date.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_mut%E2%80%98ah

  21. Clarication on my 2:27pm post. The only religious pictures we have are….

  22. I have always loved the religious altars I have seen in the homes of people of mexican descent, often containing photos of loved ones passed on displayed with their favorite foods or things. It’s a lovely blend of the catholic and indigenous beliefs.

  23. I think bin Laden got by with the last wife because the first wife got smart and left his sorry butt. She finally woke up and smelled the coffee.

    As for pictures of Warren in the homes, there is one in every room, of every building at the YFZ, or so I’m told.

  24. Are there even pictures of Warren in the bathrooms? And do those pictures have hidden cameras in the eyes for him to be looking for real?

  25. Very scary, cement, very scary indeed.

  26. “BUT IT IS NOT THE PRIVILEGE OF A WOMAN TO DICTATE TO THE HUSBAND, AND TELL WHO OR HOW MANY HE SHALL TAKE, OR WHAT HE SHALL DO WITH THEM WHEN HE GETS THEM, BUT IT IS THE DUTY OF THE WOMAN TO SUBMIT CHEERFULLY… ”

    – Brigham Young; Journal Of Discourses; Volume 17; 159

  27. “It is the duty of a woman to be obedient to her husband, and unless she is, I would not give a damn for all her queenly right and authority, nor for her either, if she will quarrel and lie about the work of God and the principles of plurality.”

    -Heber C. Kimball, November 9, 1856, in Journal of Discourses, Volume 4, 82

  28. Humorous Mark Twain polygamy quote:

    “Our stay in Salt Lake City amounted to only two days, and therefore we had no time to make the customary inquisition into the workings of polygamy and get up the usual statistics and deductions preparatory to calling the attention of the nation at large once more to the matter.

    I had the will to do it. With the gushing self-sufficiency of youth I was feverish to plunge in headlong and achieve a great reform here—until I saw the Mormon women. Then I was touched. My heart was wiser than my head. It warmed toward these poor, ungainly and pathetically ‘homely’ creatures, and as I turned to hide the generous moisture in my eyes, I said, ‘No–the man that marries one of them has done an act of Christian charity which entitles him to the kindly applause of mankind, not their harsh censure–and the man that marries sixty of them has done a deed of open-handed generosity so sublime that the nations should stand uncovered in his presence and worship in silence.'”

    -Mark Twain, 1861

  29. That’s it, Heber C.,

    double FU! My concern is that he was not the only eloquent idiot of his time.

  30. Third cousin,

    That was tongue in cheek. Don’t go starting rumors that there are hidden cameras in the bathrooms at YFZ.

  31. My guess is they hung Willies picture because there was a 6 month or so period where they were instructed by Warren that Jessop was the true prophet.

    Anonymous said this on May 7, 2011 at 11:28 AM

    If they did teach that William was the true prophet, then I never heard anything of it. It was all Warren, all the time. gonna have to file that one in the round file. They just started selling pictures of the First Presidency and some of the other priesthood council members, and it wasn’t mandatory to have them. I do remember my dad feeling bad that he couldn’t afford some of them, because we were supposed to be thinking of our prophet all the time or something. I don’t remember all the reasons behind it.

  32. Thomas S Monson, April 2011.

    “Your wife is your equal. In marriage neither partner is superior nor inferior to the other. You walk side by side as a son and a daughter of God. She is not to be demeaned or insulted but should be respected and loved. Said President Gordon B. Hinckley: “Any man in this Church who … exercises unrighteous dominion over [his wife] is unworthy to hold the priesthood. Though he may have been ordained, the heavens will withdraw, the Spirit of the Lord will be grieved, and it will be amen to the authority of the priesthood of that man.”

  33. “In the spirit world we will go to brother Joseph (Smith). . . . He will say to us, ‘Come along, my boys, we will give you a good suit of clothes. Where are your wives?
    [Men, answering Joseph Smith:] ‘They are back yonder; they would not follow us.’ ‘Never mind,’ says Joseph (Smith),’here are thousands, have all you want.'” (Heber Kimball, February 1, 1857, in Journal of Discourses, Volume 4, 209)

  34. “Brethren, I want you to understand that it is not to be as it has been heretofore. The brother missionaries have been in the habit of picking out the prettiest women for themselves before they get here, and bringing on the ugly ones for us; hereafter you have to bring them all here before taking any of them, and let us all have a fair shake.”

    -Heber C. Kimball, The Lion of the Lord, New York, 1969, pp.129-30.

  35. Yehaaa,

    Thanks for the insight! It makes one wonder, since the YFZ folks didnt have jobs, maybe they had pics in every room because there were so many unsold copies and they needed a place to warehouse them- – just thinkin…

  36. True byzantine icons are symbolic pictures that attempt to display the spirit world for your contemplation during prayer. They are not and have never been pictures of living rulers or religious leaders. Dead bishops would be featured only if they were saints and to be a saint you must be dead.

  37. I get the distinct feeling Warren wont go down with a reputation of a “saint” regardless its part of the name of the Church he was raised in.

  38. Yehaaa, have I told you lately how proud I am of you? If I haven’t, consider yourself told.

  39. Cement, I understood the spirit of your comment. And I don’t start rumors about anything.

  40. The later day saints are a different use of the word, and people should not confuse the two. But I agree with your assessment of Warren.

  41. I recall Willie R. Jessop likened replacing Warresn S. Jeffs as prophet was tantamount to rejecting Jesus Christ, himself. In the recent SL Tribune article Jessop, inded announced his rejection of Jeffs, on behavorial and moral grounds that I find to be somewhat haunting for the remainder of FLDS Church followers. After so much sect business, practices and activities now broiught to light, can this fsanatical group sustain Willie’s recent prediction that if Warren’s additional decisions and actions are dispalyed at trial that he believes the average follower will reject Warren Jeffs. How could this scenario be possible, after so many compromising and morally distasteful activities have already been publically displayed, what additional revelations can these followers now face and risk losing all belief in Jeffs. The Canadian reference case is still more important in looking at the broader picture of is the existing bigamy laws still valid in todays Canadian Charter. If so then Mormon polygamy, with or without Warren S. Jeffs as Presiding Bishop, is still an unacceptable harm to the equality of wives and children, reguardless of which fundamental profit is leading.

    Willie R. ‘Thug’ Jessop’s diavowal of Jeffs as prophet is not his rejection of Fundamental LDS as his religion of choice. FLDS Church polygamy as it is practiced, whether ‘One Man Rule’ survives as a realatively newer concept or is abandoned and/or Warren Jeffs as profit, still remains as a completely illegal tenet of this radical sect.

  42. CAJim, I think that although the repugnant “practices and activities” have been brought to light for us, I would guess that many of the faithful have been completely insulated from this information or believe that the evil gentiles and apostates are deliberately providing misinformation. I’d bet a lot don’t know yet at all due to the cloistered nature of the community.

  43. 3rdCuz, Yes at the time of the YFZ Ranch warrants many of the Hildale/Colorado City chosen members had no idea what was transpiring at the ‘Lands of Refuge'(Mancos, Pringle, Pioche & Eldorado). Some selected ‘Templbuilders’ were chosen and sworn to secrecy as to Jeffs more recent revelations and their specific mission(s) to build havens for ‘the scattered flock’. The majority of the uninformed FLDS followers were not only clueless as to the ‘Zion Mission’ but most would likely have not been called/informed of these secreted developments. Today, depending on what resolution may be resolved concerning the UEP Trust, both Hildale and Colorado City looms either as the traditional primary communities or the former focal point of the FLDS Church. This split between the ‘Lands of Refuge’ and the Twin City is Warren’s chosen course and may prove to be the pending split between Willie E. Jessop supporters and Warren Jeffs cohorts.

  44. When is the next legal event? Isn’t Merril up soon?

  45. Betty

    I’ve never understood where the FLDS think they stand in the “saint” department, since they never mention it in their day to day religious rantings.

    But it makes for an interesting title. Not that they ever strived to be one.

  46. I was always curious about the given names of Joseph Musser (1872-1954). His real name is Saint Joseph White Musser. Saint does not appear to be a family name, so I would guess it’s after St. Joseph, but it’s unheard of for LDS or FLDS to name their children after Saints. Anybody know why his parents named him that?

  47. I am familiar and can speculate that the Southern Utah city of St. George is named for one of the original members of the Quorom of Twelve Apostles, namely George Smith. This township was named for him as St. George, so my guess is that Saint Joseph would be in reference to none other than the First President and Head of the Quorom of Twelve Apostles, namely Joseph Smith, Jr. After any member, in this life, leaves the Quorom of Twelve in good standing and goes to judgment in Heaven would be considered or looked upon as a sainted member of the Mormon faith.

  48. Hey, CAJim, I’ll bet you’ve got it. Thanks.

  49. From Wikepedia:

    ‘The settlement was named after George A. Smith, an apostle of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.[7]

    In April 1877, the LDS Church completed the St. George Utah Temple. It is the Church’s third temple, and, currently, its longest continually-operating temple.[8]”

    All members of the LDS faith can properly be called saints since it is the Church of Jesus Chris of Latter Day Saints

  50. Sorry: The post above at 1:10pm is from me. It must have erased my name when I deleted cookoes, etc.

  51. Rulon Jeffs with his own voice judged Joseph Musser by saying that God would never speak or ordain others through a man that has had a stroke. Interesting that the very way Rulon Jeffs chose to judge Joseph Musser, Rulon himself was so judged…… So according to Rulon’s own words, what can William Timpson or Warren Possibly have???

    There are men living today that have heard Rulon say this, more than once…. When will these men come forth and speak the truth? When will people start following the Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ and not every fool that comes along claiming authority from some mysterious ordination from a man….

  52. If my source is correct, William E. was ordained before Rulon had his stroke and there were several witnesses present. If this is true, it adds significantly to his claim to authority.

  53. It shouldn’t be too hard to figure out, Rulon had his stroke sometime around July or August of 1998.

  54. When was William E. ordained? The written accounts say that Rulon was ill and the time of it, but not what was wrong.

  55. http://www.childbrides.org/liftoff.html Prepare for Lift-off

    I remember reading about a young man who “had packed his bag” and held his child/childrens hands as he jumped off a building in Calif.

    People driving over the cliff and into Bear River

    Some were FLDS and some were LDS.

  56. Sometime in 2002 there was another person that was ordained and given everything by Rulon Jeffs. Warren afterwords said that it didn’t apply and this person was only ordained a bishop. I believe he was from Canada. Perhaps we should go find him and declare him our king as well…..

  57. I think that was Richard Blackmore.

  58. Was it Richard or Winston?

  59. Mike Emack has added counsel to his appeal for the search warrant. He added Robert and Gary Udashen from Dallas.

  60. eye witness, don’t think for a minute you are the first to notice the inconsistency of Warren’s claims and how we discredited the AUB turning on him. Another interesting item of inconsistency — Brother Allred’s witness to the ordination was a woman, which was another reason to discredit the AUB. “A woman has no business dabbling in these things.” Yet he does this very thing with holy Naomi and holy Mary telling us about Warren’s “ordination”.

  61. There are men living today that have heard Rulon say this, more than once…. When will these men come forth and speak the truth? When will people start following the Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ and not every fool that comes along claiming authority from some mysterious ordination from a man….

    —————————–

    How strange to hear a Fundamentalist Mormon say this, since it seems to me that the entire religion, beginning with Joseph Smith and including all the splinter groups, starts with one man saying it had been revealed to him personally that his way was the only way to being saved.

    These are personality cults, their believers are following human beings, not Jesus.

    Heh – I thought the whole “Reformation” thing was to get away from that kind of thinking.

  62. Warren Jeffs was not groomed to his Presidency by his father, Rulon Jeffs. Warren is not the first born of the first wife but the younger born of the fourth wife, namely Marilyn Steed, which in line of perage gives him no lineage to claim his presidency. Warren’s older brother, namely Leroy Jeffs, would be able to argue a position above Warren’s claim and Leroy was steeped in the FLDS Church accounts and business concerns, unlike Warren Jeffs. Leroy Jeffs has already experienced on ‘handling’ via Warren and seems loyal to his younger brother’s claims. Rulon didn’t nominate a named successor because he believed/prophesied that the ‘EndTime’ would occur before his demise. Basically, the seat of succession was laid open by Rulon with no heir apparent groomed to succeed the President, Prophet, Revelator and Seer.

  63. Rulon was a book keeper / accountant by trade, but by the sounds of it, he would struggle through a page of Sudoku.

  64. To Anon E Mouse at 2:29 PM

    And who is jesus but a human being?

  65. Unfortunately his stroke left Rulon with cognitive impairments. Before the stroke he was quite accomplished with financial matters.

  66. Rulon from what I have researched was adept at hiding the true owner to avoid taxation, bankrupting going concerns to morph them into reformed enterprises, tapping underage work practices that ignored existing child labor laws/regulations and teaching his flock to stand elbow-to-elbow at the Social Services trough to be sure to ‘Bleed the Beast’.

    I wish to give ‘A Ninny’ a special shout out and hope he/she/it enjoys reading about my findings.

  67. Like I said, CAJim, he was quite accomplished in the realm of finance….

  68. Here is a humorous and thought-provoking article about another polygamist, Osama bin Laden, from the Wall Street Journal –

    Take His Wife. Please.
    Who was that Laden we shot him with last night?

    By JAMES TARANTO

    After Osama bin Laden was killed, there were reports that he had used his wife–to be exact, one of his wives–as a human shield. The White House eventually said this was false, but one imagined the al Qaeda honcho doing his best Henny Youngman impression and telling the audience of Navy SEALs: “Take my wife. Please.” (As an aside, imagine the comic riches that Youngman might have produced had he only practiced polygamy.)

    As it turns out, the SEALs didn’t take Mrs. bin Laden, née Amal Ahmed Abdul Fatah, though they did shoot her in the leg, Agence France-Presse reports. She is now in Pakistani “protective custody,” along with two other bin Laden widows.

    The U.S. would like to interview Mrs. bin Laden, along with the other Mrs. bin Laden and the other other Mrs. bin Laden. (Blame monogamy for that awkward locution–there’s no plural for “Mrs.”) But the Pakistanis do not seem eager to let this happen, as AFP suggests:

    Read more – http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703730804576315340084733586.html

  69. Mike Emack has added counsel to his appeal for the search warrant. He added Robert and Gary Udashen from Dallas.

    Proud Texan said this on May 10, 2011 at 1:04 PM

    OK … then if 58-year-old Mike Emack had a “problem” with the search warrant, why in the hell did he plead “no contest” on January 22, 2011 to Sexual Assault of a Child because of his “spiritual marriage” to a 16-year-old little girl on August 5, 2004?

    And why in the hell did he also plead “no contest” on April 15, 2010 to bigamy regarding this 16-year-old child bride he “spiritually married” on August 5, 2004?

    Sorry, but this reeks of some kind of “Warren” or “Merril” defense being concocted to contest the search warrant using Emack as the scapegoat. I am not a lawyer (where IS Ron in Houston when we really need him?), but I don’t think criminals who plead “no contest” usually start appealing the original search warrant like this.

  70. Like I said, CAJim, he was quite accomplished in the realm of finance….

    (anon). said this on May 10, 2011 at 9:31 PM

    Wasn’t Rulon Jeffs once a CPA for Thiokol (later Morton-Thiokol of the NASA space shuttle Challenger O-ring disaster where all of the 7 astronauts died?)

    I know he was a CPA with several prominent Utah firms – at least before he turned to polygamy and was kicked out of the LDS Mormon church.

  71. Correction – the year is wrong in my post above. It should be:

    OK … then if 58-year-old Mike Emack had a “problem” with the search warrant, why in the hell did he plead “no contest” on January 22, 2010 to Sexual Assault of a Child because of his “spiritual marriage” to a 16-year-old little girl on August 5, 2004?

    58-year-old Mike Emack plead “no contest” on January 22, 2010 NOT 2011 to having had sex with a 16-year-old little girl on August 5, 2004.

  72. Some nostalgia for the blogging baby boomers … They don’t call this “General Discussion” for nothin’

    A great article on Christopher Cross. He filled in for Ritchie Blackmore with Deep Purple and played in a back-up band for tours with Jethro Tull and Led Zeppelin.

    Sailing …

    Takes me away

    To where I’ve always heard it could be

    Just a dream and the wind to carry me

    And soon I will be free…

    Christopher Cross Chokes Up Over Memory of Billy Joel’s Grammy Standing Ovation

    http://www.spinner.com/2011/05/10/christopher-cross-doctor-faith/

  73. The last stanza of Christopher Cross’ “Sailing” song is pertinent, too.

    It’s not far back to sanity

    At least it’s not for me

    And when the wind is right you can sail away

    And find serenity

    The canvas can do miracles

    Just you wait and see

    Believe me

    Read all of the lyrics to this beautiful song here, if you don’t remember them or have never heard them –

    http://www.risa.co.uk/sla/song.php?songid=12311

  74. Rulon Jeffs was on the Corporate Board of Thiokol when the NASA Challener disaster transpired, the investigation concerning the “O” ring was inconclusive and generally believed that the spec order given by NASA may have been insufficient and no direct fault was tied to causing the disaster. Rulon resigned from the Board around the time of the investigation and the firm was later sold.

  75. Are you suggesting that he may have sabotaged the gentile rocket ship?

  76. I seem to recall at the time of the pleading that “no contest” was specifically used instead of “guilty” because it allows for a later appeal. This was part of the plan all along.

  77. Are you suggesting that he may have sabotaged the gentile rocket ship?

    Anonymous said this on May 11, 2011 at 7:21 AM

    Absolutely NOT! Before Rulon Jeffs was excommunicated by the LDS church he was very connected to people in high places in Utah. I was just pointing out that he was involved with several prominent Utah firms and Thiokol was one of the names that I remembered. The only reason I elaborated on the NASA Challenger was because I thought most readers wouldn’t know much about the Thiokol company otherwise.

  78. I don’t know what “no contest” means in Texas. In Utah it is the same as a “guilty” plea/verdict. It can mean that the charges are removed (expunged) from the convicted person’s record in the future if they obey all of their sentencing requirements.

  79. There is some evidence that the Challenger O rings failed because of the quite cold weather when the launch took place. This is a video on it.

    http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/55670/Richard_Feynman__amp__The_Challenger_O_Ring_Failure/

  80. But it might help your cause to insinuate otherwise here as has been done in the not-too-distant past.

  81. Anon 8:21, in federal court defendants can plead “no lo contendere,” which means that they do not admit guilt but acknowledge that there is enough evidence yield a likely conviction. There is no allocution at sentencing.

  82. But it might help your cause to insinuate otherwise here as has been done in the not-too-distant past.

    a non said this on May 11, 2011 at 9:31 AM

    a non, I wasn’t implying that and I explicitly said so. Please stop making up things and twisting my words.

    FU,
    Love Fred

  83. I was going to tell a non to take the giant chip off his/her shoulder and give it a rest, but I see that Fred has beat me to it.

  84. Tell that to someone who hasn’t been persecuted all his/her life simply based on his/her zip code.

  85. nolo contendre = no contest = a plea where you agree to be found guilty by not contesting the state’s case.

    The only advantage it gives over a plea of guilty is that the plea of nolo or no contest is NOT admissible in civil court.

  86. A non, I mean this in all kindness; if you can’t get over being angry at the way others treat you because of your zip code (or color or religion or body weight or sexual orientation, wah dee doo dah) then you are harming no one so much as yourself. It’s going to eat you up and make you ill, poison your life in one way or another. For one thing, on this blog, you have seen insults and slights when there were none on a number of occasions. Do what you have to do to GET OVER IT. I wish you well and hold you in my prayers.

  87. A non,
    In what ways have you been persecuted due to your zip code, if you feel comfortable sharing that with us ?

  88. Rulon Jeffs with his own voice judged Joseph Musser by saying that God would never speak or ordain others through a man that has had a stroke. Interesting that the very way Rulon Jeffs chose to judge Joseph Musser, Rulon himself was so judged…… So according to Rulon’s own words, what can William Timpson or Warren Possibly have???

    There are men living today that have heard Rulon say this, more than once…. When will these men come forth and speak the truth? When will people start following the Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ and not every fool that comes along claiming authority from some mysterious ordination from a man….

    eye wittness said this on May 10, 2011 at 9:57 AM
    ——

    I was there and heard Uncle Rulon say this as well.

    I agree with “eye witness”, you can’t believe in Rulon Jeffs and also believe the men he ordained after his strokes hold anything at all.

  89. Sometime in 2002 there was another person that was ordained and given everything by Rulon Jeffs. Warren afterwords said that it didn’t apply and this person was only ordained a bishop. I believe he was from Canada. Perhaps we should go find him and declare him our king as well…..

    anon said this on May 10, 2011 at 11:31 AM

    —-
    That was Richard Blackmore, brother to Winston Blackmore. This happened after Winston was taken out by Warren. I understood his ordination was before little Willy’s which was well after Uncle Rulon’s strokes.

  90. To Anon E Mouse at 2:29 PM
    And who is jesus but a human being?

    ———————

    Yes, he was the human part of the Holy Trinity; Father, Son and Holy Ghost, and all those parts are one and the same. So Jesus is also God.

    That’s if you “believe,” of course not everybody does 🙂

  91. Warren Jeffs was not groomed to his Presidency by his father, Rulon Jeffs. Warren is not the first born of the first wife but the younger born of the fourth wife, namely Marilyn Steed, which in line of perage gives him no lineage to claim his presidency. Warren’s older brother, namely Leroy Jeffs, would be able to argue a position above Warren’s claim and Leroy was steeped in the FLDS Church accounts and business concerns, unlike Warren Jeffs. Leroy Jeffs has already experienced on ‘handling’ via Warren and seems loyal to his younger brother’s claims. Rulon didn’t nominate a named successor because he believed/prophesied that the ‘EndTime’ would occur before his demise. Basically, the seat of succession was laid open by Rulon with no heir apparent groomed to succeed the President, Prophet, Revelator and Seer.

    CAJim said this on May 10, 2011 at 3:47 PM

    …..
    You are correct CaJim. Warren had several brothers older than him that had more claim to senority than he did. That is why he kicked out all his older brothers. Also those older brothers knew a lot about what kind of person Warren really was and Warren didn’t want them to talk.

    After Warren was kicked out of his fathers house at about age 15 for molesting his sister and others, Allen Steed took him under his wing to try and save him.
    Allen knew to much and Warren kicked him out as well so he wouldn’t talk. Also some of Allens sons that were about that same age have been kicked out as well. The others that knew him during those times and know what he is really like, should consider themselves “on ice” for now.
    The day Warren has them take out some loans and turn the proceeds into the priesthood is the day of reckoning for them.

    Uncle Rulon made it absolutely clear that there would be no prophet after him and that he would live until Jesus personally came back. At that time, he would personally turn over the keys of the priesthood to him.

  92. Uncle Rulon made it absolutely clear that there would be no prophet after him and that he would live until Jesus personally came back. At that time, he would personally turn over the keys of the priesthood to him.

    Anonymous said this on May 11, 2011 at 2:31 PM

    and then after he died, Warren made up for it by saying “Father has just moved into the next “room”, and was still with us and guiding Warren. yay for modern “revelation” I guess.

  93. yehaaa6,

    Folks must have been very disillusioned to find that Rulon would not outlive the second coming. Did many leave the group over that? Did many worry that he was a fraud or that the church was untrue?

  94. NOPE, not one dieaffected believer. Warren first acted as though he was channeling his father’s spirit and once his ruse was fully inplace the Rulon charade was ended, mainly once Rulon’s widows had been remarried to Warren. I would like to point out that Rulon’s prediction that he would be the Last Prophet may still hold true, unless you consider the ‘Wrecking Ball’ Warren Jeffs to be a true profit. Warren’s Zion Mission is fueled in his teaching that the ‘End-Time’ is elapsing and the world end is near. This helps to explain how one goes about getting
    ‘Templebuilders’ to abandon their wives and children in Short Creek and move to the ‘Land of Refuge’ to prepare a place for the Second Coming and recieve new ‘Child Bride’ wives, it all adds up for those ‘Chosen’.

    So with ‘Warrants’ impending ‘life sentence’ and no chance of parole the FLDS Church zealots are going to be left reeling from yet another wrecking ball blow. The BC Supreme Court Justice can time his findings to be insync with the show trial and the impact will be magnified.

  95. http://www.trenthead.com/2011/05/willie-jessop-utah-supreme-court/

    The truth about the picture of Willie R with his face in his hands comes out.

  96. New SL Trib article. Nothing that we did not already know or strongly suspect.

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/51795072-78/jeffs-charges-utah-texas.html.csp

    Any retrial on Utah charges against polygamous sect leader Warren S. Jeffs will likely wait until after he is tried on separate sexual assault and bigamy charges in Texas.

    In a status hearing Wednesday, defense attorney Walter Bugden said Jeffs would not waive his right to personally appear in a Utah court.

  97. Are we ever going to see the ‘Federal Flight’ charge brought to trial behind all of these other matters??? The Third Warrant served at the YFZ Ranch resulted in evidence being removed from the Temple, I am dying to find out what evidence was in them and the Red “Escalade”. As the UEP Trust appeals seem to escalate into the Federal Court jurisdiction, will Senator Reid’s pending HR Bill to fund and form a Federal Task Force come to fruition? Will the RICO Act be invoked to facilitate all of these organized crime issues?

  98. Re: Warren channeling Rulon – that reminds me of when after JS died a lot of people swore that BY had taken on his “countenance,” proving me many he was the correct successor.

  99. The San Angelo paper reports that Merril Jessop aka the wife beater is scheduled to appear in court tomorrow at 10 AM in San Angelo, TX.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/may/11/former-flds-bishop-to-appear-in-court-today/

    This was posted on website, to be published in paper Thursday.

  100. I could have bet on the fact that Warren won’t be going anywhere before his Texas trials. He’s here for the duration. If Utah wants him after his October trial, I’m sure they can have him then.

  101. The only advantage it gives over a plea of guilty is that the plea of nolo or no contest is NOT admissible in civil court.

    Ron in Houston said this on May 11, 2011 at 12:58 PM

    RIH, it also offers another advantage. It saves mega bucks in attorney fees to defend Mike Emack; funds which can be used to defend the pedophile prophet Warren Jeffs.

  102. Again, not an attorney, but pleading nolo (in my experience prosecutor must agree if you’re talking plea agreement) gets you out of the allocution, which is helpful in a number of ways. Thoughts?

  103. The prosecutor generally doesn’t care whether a defendant pleads guilty or nolo.

    Obviously some people have a problem admitting their guilt so pleading nolo solves that problem.

  104. I would agree with that – as an example, Lindsay Lohan just plead “no contest” and her enablers are still crowing its “not a guilty plea”

    In the meantime, she was sentenced for this “no contest” plea, to 120 days in jail, and 480 hours community service, about a third of which is to be served in the morgue.

    Probation extended 3 years.

    “No Contest” indeed.

  105. hee hee. Well said Ron. We always appreciate your legal input!

  106. More pretrials set for FLDS member Jessop

    QUOTE
    “SAN ANGELO, Texas — What was to be a final pretrial turned in to what may be the first of several pretrials for Frederick Merril Jessop, a bishop of the polygamous Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints who now has a new attorney.

    Jessop has an indictment charging him with conducting a ceremony prohibited by law: marrying a minor to Warren Jeffs, the church head of the FLDS in 2006.

    The new attorney is Rae Leifeste of San Angelo. He said he filed to be the new attorney on Wednesday.

    Attorneys Amy Hennington and Gerald Goldstein had been filing motions for Jessop, such as a motion for continuance in April saying that there was too much information for them to be ready at a previous trial date.

    The next pretrial is scheduled for 9 a.m. June 27 in Schleicher County, and a trial date has been set for Oct. 31 for Jessop.”
    UNQUOTE

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/may/12/more-pretrials-set-for-flds-member-jessop/

    And so it goes…… on and on and on!

  107. So what is the significance of trying exBishop Merril Jessop on posing as a Marriage Minister/Justice of the Peace? Who cares? Does this trial matter, even if it ends in a guilty verdict?

    I think it, again, highlights the total contempt and lawlessness of the Prophet and FLDS Church as a group of organized underworld fanatics bent upon bringing about their Theocracy and ignoring our American Democracy. ‘One Man Rule’ is the dictatorship and complete control of this sect and the UEP Trust abuses further highlight that this Prophet and his ‘Chosen’/Tempolebuilder cohorts will stop at nothing to enact their Deseret Empire as they see fit.

  108. Well, San angelo Tribune has just reported that exBishop Jessop will be tried on 31 October with the next pre-trial set for 27 nJune, 2011 @ 9:00AM. New attorney, namely Rae Leifeste, has been arranged and for now attornies Amy Hennington and Gerald Goldstein have been replaced. Funny how the leadership and attornies have been removed and replaced, while the FLDS Church keeps walking their ‘crooked path’ on the defense trail. Stonewalling, deadbeating child support payments and ‘Answer Them Nothing’ still seem to all be at play when it comes to the Prophet Jeffs and his tempered Templebuilders.

  109. If they are going to delay by playing “change the attorney everytime we change our underwear” I would revoke bail.

    At some point it becomes ridiculous, and that time has obviously passed long ago.

  110. I have, also, always wondered how Willie R. ‘Thug’ Jessop stood at the microphone voicing assurances, spouting claims and denials, yet he held no official office of the FLDS Church or was ever recognized as the Prophet Warren Jeffs anointed spokesperson, yet the Press routinely covered his comments as gospel and swallowed his kool-aid with abandon. Now Willie R. Jessop is a nobody, again, just like any other Priesthood puppet.

  111. Almost makes me sorry for him. Almost.

  112. Heah Betty, it has been a real carousel of characters, hasn’t it been? I have had fun riding around on all of them but I am so glad that they don’t reside in my community. I feel the most sorry for the children innocently born into such a religious maelstrom, like the Canadian BC coulselor has said, “They consume their young”.

    Equally, i am saddened for the communities like San Angelo, Eldorado, Bountiful, BC that have had their peaceful townships hijacked by these fervent zealots, very sad and tragic! When will the carousel be closed and the ride here end?

  113. Here’s a relative, in case it’s somebody else’s here too.

  114. Ooops.

    http://www.thespectrum.com/article/20110512/OBITUARIES/105120301

  115. Wow what a life, and 93 or so…

  116. CAJim, it pretty simple. I think Willie R. was listened to because:
    a) the only other authorized FLDS voices, Sam Barlow and Dan Barlow were ousted, so someone was needed to fill that role interacting with the public,

    b) he was the most practiced, being head bodyguard, head watchman, and head meeting house doorman,

    c) everyone else appearing in public are counseled to “answer them nothing” (so who else could the media talk to?),

    and we should add
    d) he was a willing Willie at the time to do as he was told which was spout the party line.

  117. How much of big willie being a spokes-pewrson was self assigned versus being assigned by warren?

  118. Yes Ad Hoc and Chemist and who could argue with Warren if he ever disputes anything Willie lead the General Public to believe by simply saying I never authorized Willie to speak on my behalf. Making him a total strawman in the debate. Also, any recognized Official of the FLDS Church, like Lyle Jeffs, can still simply state that Willie R. Jessops remarks were not sanctioned/approved by FLDS Church authorities which then reduces Willie to a private person or another FLDS members opinion. The Press got duped ‘Big Time’ by allowing Willies comments to be reported as accurately reflecting the FLDS Church’s views. The real comment is SILENCE because the Prophet has invoked the ‘Answer Them Nothing’ defense.

  119. CAJim and chemist, you both have good points. Just saying that I believe Willie WAS loosely authorized to act as a shill and probably say just about anything any way he wanted with plausible deniability (is that an oxymoron?) available to upper leadership, especially since Willing Willie didn’t have any particular leadership position like Dan Barlow (mayor) and Sam Barlow (sheriff) and could therefore easily be treated like a loose cannon if necessary. And you see where he is now, right? But like all the other axed folks we just don’t know exactly why.

  120. Additionally, Willie would have been shut down LONG before he actually was, if he hadn’t been “allowed” to say all those things he did. Nothing like having someone to throw curve balls to deflect real issues.

  121. When wilie was put under oath he said that he did not speak for the church, was not an officer of the church, was speaking only for himself, etc.

  122. Third Cousin, sorry to hear about the death of your relative Dora. That was a really lengthy obituary. I didn’t realize the Spectrum ran 3 page obits.

    Alzheimer’s is tough. May Dora rest in peace.

  123. The “Sons of Perdition” documentary will be broadcast on June 2 on OWN – the Oprah Winfrey Network.

  124. Thanks for the information Anonymous @4:11. I’ve been tryng to find it online forever….but that just wasn’t working. I will definately be tuning in June 2nd!

  125. I think Merril had to change attorneys because he’s no longer “FLDS” and Goldy and Amy were paid by the “FLDS”.

  126. It’s well worth watching Ariel.

  127. If Merril isnt FLDS anymore than just what is he?

    An “Older than the Hills Lost Boy”..?

    Maybe its the new strategy – get bounced from the Church so the Judge takes pity on you?

    LOLZ

  128. Oh what a tangled web we mortals weave…

  129. From the SL Trib paper here’s a story about a fundie group claiming the end of the world will be May 21, sounds like this dudes been drinking the Warren Jeffs kool aid of the worlds coming to a end and the destruction’s will begin, guess this dude takes Warrens warnings seriously. Not likely ROFLMAO..

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/lifestyle/51796207-80/says-camping-christians-judgment.html.csp

  130. Uncle Rulon made it absolutely clear that there would be no prophet after him and that he would live until Jesus personally came back. At that time, he would personally turn over the keys of the priesthood to him.

    Anonymous said this on May 11, 2011 at 2:31 PM

    and then after he died, Warren made up for it by saying “Father has just moved into the next “room”, and was still with us and guiding Warren. yay for modern “revelation” I guess.

    yehaaa6 said this on May 11, 2011 at 2:56 PM

    That’s exactly what happened. You were there yehaaa6. I’m sure I know you.

  131. Stamp, I think Merril is more of a “Lost Old Fart”.

  132. A Texan, nice find on the end of the world. We’ve got about a week I guess. No connection to mormonism that I found, though.

    Love the “lost old fart.”

  133. A Texan, that man predicts the end of the world every year.

  134. TC,
    Sorry for your loss.

  135. I think that May 21 date was made up by some kids who don’t want to take finals.

  136. Thanks for your thoughts everyone, but I actually never knew Dora Barlow Stroud, just doing my genealogy. But I loved reading about her life!

  137. PT, if I could have pulled that in graduate school I totally would have.

  138. Me too 3C. It came to mind yesterday when I heard some kinds talking about the flooding along the Mississippi. They were talking about how it never rains in Texas so we can’t be so lucky as to miss school because of a flood. What they don’t realize is that they would just have to make it up.

  139. With regard to Harold Camping’s repetitive predictions that the world will end on some date he has calculated, Christian teaching is clear – no one knows the day or the hour when the end will come.

    Mark 13: 32 – 33 : (NIV)
    “32 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Be on guard! Be alert! You do not know when that time will come.”

  140. Who’s in charge at the YFZ Ranch? There has to be a new bishop for this ‘scatterd flock’. The only Jeffs family member that lives there is Seth, does anyone know?

  141. @ BIB: I fully agree. Men have been giving dates for the “end times” for thousands of years and no one has got it right so far.

  142. I think it’s hypocritical to say “the world wants to destroy us. God is going to destroy the world and only us will be left”

  143. I’m not so sure Seth is still at the ranch.

  144. Cement in a similar sentiment I read a Jewish comedian says that European antisemitic views have changed from before and after WWII. Before the war typical slogans would be scrawled on walls that read, ‘Jews Go Home to Palestine’ and today the slogans read ‘Jews Get Out of Palestine’. Hee,hee

  145. Speaking of the second coming, here’s my favorite mormon joke:

    The top Cardinal comes in to see the Pope, telling him he’s got good news and he’s got bad news. The Pope says let’s have the good news first. So the Cardinal tells him he has just taken a phone call and Christ has returned for the Second Coming. The Pope and Cardinal celebrate momentarily, and then the Pope gets the bad news: the call came in from Salt Lake City.

  146. Similar joke is old by my Catholic friends but the roles are reversed, a little:

    LDS President gets and urgent call when he is in conference with the Quorom that Jesus is calling and on hold on Line #1. The room burst into joy that the King is here on Earth. Before answering the line the President asks where the call is coming in from and the respnse is The Vatican.

  147. LOL!

    Better SLC than Mecca!

  148. On the Onion, there was an article about God deciding he was overworked and needed a vacation, so he thought he would go to tour the Vatican, since he has never been there before.

  149. If you have not seen Rome yet I highly recommend that you visit, even if you are not Catholic… And by the way, Harold Camping, the author of the Doomsday Prediction is not Catholic, he is Protestant.

  150. What ? Say it isn’t so!

    Osama Bin Laden the polygamist with 4 wives viewed porn! I thought that polygamists did not use pornography – or so the PPSG has claimed in the past. Aren’t we repetitively told by them that pornography is the “by product” of monogamy, and that engaging in polygamy reduced a man’s interest in pornography ?

    http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/05/13/bin_laden_porno_us_officials_say_they_recovered_pornography_coll.html

  151. I don’t know if Seth Jeffs is still living at the YFZ or not, but he was at the St. George Costco last week around 4 PM on Tuesday, May 3rd.

    I still can’t believe he got off so easily for running money for Warren while Warren was a fugitive from the FBI.

  152. Utah’s Desert News has a story on Osama bin Laden’s porn stash, too.

    Osama bin Laden’s hideout contained extensive stash of pornography

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700135105/Osama-bin-Ladens-hideout-contained-extensive-stash-of-pornography.html

  153. So in Utah, Osama would have been good with all the young brides, but that porn stash

    HOOO Boy

    Orrin Hatch would have personally checked it out errr hung him for it!

  154. I wonder if this guy can even name all of his wives?

    Bello Maasaba, Nigerian Islamic faith healer and polygamist married to 107 brides, thanks God

    Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/05/12/2011-05-12_bello_maasaba_nigerian_islamic_faith_healer_and_polygamist_married_to_107_brides.html#ixzz1ML1OCyC5

  155. He thinks they are all “satisfied”. LOL.

  156. They are all “satisfied?” If that isn’t projection, I don’t know what is.

  157. Oops:

    ROUNDY, RICHARD D
    Birth Date: 03/11/90
    Address : 61 E 130 N, LaVerkin, UT
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    18:06:54 05/14/11 Richmond, Darre LAVE

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    58-37-8(2)d.. DRUG-MARIJUANA UND 1o 3F 5DIS 5000.00 [No Payments Made]
    58-37a-5 POSSESS PARAPHERNALIA BM 5DIS 390.00 [No Payments Made]

    MUSSER, DAVID JEFFS
    Birth Date: 10/30/84
    Address : 61 E 130 N, LaVerkin, UT
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    18:06:54 05/14/11 Richmond, Darre LAVE

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    58-37-8(1)a MD. DRUG-MARIJUANA, DIST 2F 5DIS 10000.00 [No Payments Made]
    58-37-8(2b) MP DRUG-MUSHROOM, POSSES 3F 5DIS 5000.00 [No Payments Made]
    58-37-8(2)biii DRUG-MARIJUANA 1oz-16 3F 5DIS 5000.00 [No Payments Made]
    58-37-4 2aiiAA DRUG-CANNABIS RESINOU 3F 5DIS 5000.00 [No Payments Made]
    58-37a-5 POSSESS PARAPHERNALIA BM 5DIS 390.00 [No Payments Made]
    58-37a-5 POSSESS PARAPHERNALIA BM 5DIS 390.00 [No Payments Made]
    58-37a-5 POSSESS PARAPHERNALIA BM 5DIS 390.00 [No Payments Made]

    JEFFS, STEVEN ANTHONY
    Birth Date: 03/04/88
    Address : 61 E 130 N, LaVerkin, UT
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    18:06:54 05/14/11 Richmond, Darre LAVE

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    58-37-8(2)d DRUG-MARIJUANA UNDER BM WCJ3 623.00 [No Payments Made]
    58-37a-5 POSSESS PARAPHERNALIA BM WCJ3 430.00 [No Payments Made]

  158. WOW

    A threefer = =

    Wonder if they were smoking some of that BC BUD?

  159. These are obviously 3 of the St. George area “Lost Boys”. This is all too typical of what happens to these kids when they leave the Creek. They are usually ill-prepared and undereducated for life on the “outside” and often turn to drugs and alcohol to cope with their fear, loneliness, sense of abandonment and loss of family connections.

    This is awful. I hate seeing these kids on the booking page. However, I’d rather see them busted for pot than for heroin. Heroin is HUGE in southern Utah and heroin KILLS!

    Although these 3 young men are in their early 20’s they probably have the maturity of a “normal mainstream” 16-year-old boy. That is usually the case with these Creeker boys.

    This saddens me so.

  160. David Jeffs Musser is the son of Linda Jeffs who is one of Wendell’s wives. She had a son who was at the ranch during the raid.

  161. Did anyone scroll down the WCSO booking page and see this arrest?

    CHRISTENSON, CELESTIAL CHARITY
    Birth Date: 11/20/73
    Address : 2000 W 230 S, Rockville, UT
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    18:22:53 05/13/11 Ballard, Britt SPRI

    She is not FLDS, but her name is almost as funky as the mysterious YFZ’s Spiritual Unity!

  162. GT, this arrestee might be related to you – through Philip Klingonsmith.

    KLINGONSMITH, DAWSON
    Birth Date: 04/04/90
    Address : 559 N 1275 W, St George, UT
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    13:07:24 05/13/11 Smith, Delane WCJL

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    COMMITMENT COMMITMENT-COURT ORDE BM WCJ7 0.00 [No Payments Made]

  163. Are the perpetrators former or current members of the cult ?

  164. BiB, are you referring to the Musser, Jeffs and Roundy boys when you said “the perpetrators”?

    I hardly think of them as “perpetrators”; I just think of them as kids who were abandoned or driven away from their homes and families.

    But, if these are “the perpetrators” you meant, then I would say with 99.9% certainty that they are former (ex) members of the FLDS cult.

  165. pt, lindas david is in his 40’s, and goes by David Nielsen. This kid is probably David or Amos Mussers sons.

  166. Any one heard anything about William Black in Mexico…rumor that he was killed in a gun battle..not a fact!

  167. WANTED

    By U.S. MARSHALS

    Name: BLACK,ORSON WILLIAM JR Alias: BLACK,ORSON WILLIAM JR
    Sex…………………………………………. MALE
    Race……………………………………….. WHITE
    Date of Birth…………………………… 03/18/1961
    Place of Birth………………………….. UTAH
    Height…………………………………….. 5’10”
    Weight……………………………………. 185 pounds
    Eyes……………………………………….. BROWN
    Hair……………………………………….. BROWN

    Orson William Black was once part of the same Fundamentalists of Latter Day Saints(FLDS) community as Warren Jeffs. However, Black broke away from FLDS practices in Colorado City , Arizona and began marrying multiple underage girls and sexually abusing them. He is wanted for Conspiracy To Commit Sexual Conduct with a Minor and Sexual Conduct With A Minor. Black is believed to be travelling between Arizona and Mexico . If you have any information regarding the whereabout of Black, contact Deputy Mark Dominguez at (602) 382-8778.

    http://www.usdoj.gov/marshals

  168. This is a perfect example of the law being screwed up.

    Those massive bail amounts for possession etc, and just up the street, little children are being molested and no one gives a crap.

    And then this Orson Black asshole. The Washington County Sheriff, Kirk Smith I think it was, had him surrounded and on Blacks request they were to come back the next day to arrest him.

    HA HA! Goodbye! He escaped to Mexico and kidnapped the children at the same time.

    The law in that corner of Plygistan cant find its ass with both hands in the dark.

  169. Have not found anything on Orson William Black being shot in Mexico. This link is to a news stiry on OWB by Mike Watkiss. It is from December 2010.

  170. LTG – Linda Jeffs was married to Amos Milton Musser first and had children with him. After he was exed, she was married to Wendell Nielsen. That’s who she was married to at the time of the raid. The David Jeffs Musser who was busted in LaVerkin is the son of Linda Jeffs and Amos Milton Musser. Wendell’s other wife named Linda was a Black, not a Jeffs. Wendell’s son who is David Jeffs Nielsen is a cousin to the busted David Jeffs Musser. DJN’s mother is Donna Jeffs, sister to the above Linda Jeffs.

    I’m not sure who Steven Jeffs belongs to, but the Roundy boy belongs to Craig D. Roundy and Majken Holm. He’s the grandson of Carl Otto Nathaniel Holm.

  171. Oops, here’s another one. He’s the son of Sterling Kane Jessop and Lavinia Black.

    JESSOP, WESTON VERGEL
    Birth Date: 02/11/90
    Address : 3155 S HIDDEN VALLEY DR; 256, St George, UT
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    00:50:00 05/15/11 Callaway, Jud SGPD

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    41-1A-704 DISPLAY PREV OWNER PL CM WCJ7 270.00 [No Payments Made]
    53-3-227(2) DL SUSPENDED-NON DRUG CM WCJ7 300.00 [No Payments Made]
    41-6a-518.2 INTERLOCK: OPERATE WI BM WCJ7 623.00 [No Payments Made]
    41-6a-530 ALCOHOL- RESTRICT DRI BM WCJ7 1615.00 [No Payments Made]

  172. The Steven Anthony Jeffs listed above is the son of Blaine Jeffs, Warren’s brother

  173. Stamp, WHY in the HELL did the sheriff stand down on Orson Black???

  174. Help, PT, my most recent Amos Milton Musser Jr. is born in 1860.

  175. Interesting side note on Blaine Jeffs. He’s one of those who married a woman and then married that woman’s oldest daughter. His 3rd wife Joni Cooke is the daughter of his 2nd wife, Samantha Johnson. Joni was 16 when her mother married Blaine and 18 when Blaine married her.

  176. I don’t meant to nit-pick, but the US Marshall on chemist’s news story refers to Black as “sort of a pedophile.” He’s not “sort of” anything: he’s a pedophile. The fact that he calls his relationship with the 13 year old a marriage makes no difference to me.

  177. 3C, Amos Milton Musser that I have is the son of Guy Hill Musser and Laverne Barlow. He’s a brother to David, Sarah, Priscilla, Martha, John, Paul and Daniel. The only wife I show for him is Linda Jeffs who is the daughter of Rulon Jeffs and Ruth Jessop. She was born in 1951. I don’t have a dob on Amos Milton.

  178. I agree with you about Orson Black. He’s in the same league as Warren Jeffs. Both are pedophiles and both deserve to rot in prison.

  179. Anon 10:01, is this Samantha Johnson daughter of Michael George Emack and Ruleen Johnson? Was she previously married to a Cooke?

  180. TC

    “Why did the Sheriff stand down”

    Xlent question. The great video that Chemist posted, I had never seen, but it did echo that “they feared for the safety of the children errr wives”

    So, he evidently wasnt surrendering nicely, and was hiding behind skirts and children.

    Of course, they could have had a few guys camp out and watch the property till the morning instead of going home and letting him escape scot free.

    Obviously Smith did it all wrong, and that said, they ALWAYS do it wrong, there just isnt any proper law in that crack corner of the world.

    What has to happen before they wake up? I am glad Texas doesnt put up with this bullcrap.

  181. Gross re: Blaine Jeffs and his step daughter/wife. Leviticus, anybody? Don’t do it; it’s an abomination.

  182. The fact that these supposed marriages have no basis in authority granted by the State to religious ministers or church denomination further adds to the compounding of these pedophile’s crimes. This is one area where the act of officiating a bogus marriage needs to be sriffened by State Legilature by degrees of seriousness. A Justice of the Peace who may perform a wedlock with an expired license would be a 3rd degree felony, a minister that performs a ceremony that does not conform to a State requirements, i.e. issuance of an bonsfide certification should be a 2nd degree felony but a minister that performs a ceremony without a official license and issues no State issued certificate ought to recieve a 1st degree felony, commiserate with the obvious disregard for the States marital statutes. Repeat offence by a Justice of the Peace/Ministers should result in enhanced sentences, i.e. second offense 2nd degree charge will be considered a 1st degree offense.

    I believe that there is another area that the States legislation need to modernize which is birth certificate issuance and procedures, namely DNA testing and other biometric information should be recorded before certificates are issued. One of the future pieces of data on the YFZ children as a specific population is the biometric record that was created.

    I know this is going to cause the FLDS apologists big heartburn but when photos were first developed in the US they quickly became a form of records collecting, like official military photos, driver’s license, etc.

  183. No 3C, the Samantha Johnson who married Blaine was the daughter of Warren Elmer Johnson and Beth Louise Cook. Her name is sometimes spelled Symantha. Mike Emack’s daughter is only 2 or 3 years old.

  184. My amateur genealogy research taught me that even in the early 1800s in Kentucky all local ministers were required to register themselves with the local county/city governments as they were required to be licensed to sign marriage, births and death records as a bonafide witness/licensed official, some traveling ministers on the frontier turned in their registries every other year but their records were considered official documents by individual States/Territories.

  185. Good video chemist, here’s more from Americas Most wanted:

    http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=38832

    If anyone knows where this turkey is contact AMW:

    http://www.amw.com/report-tip/?id=38832

    Or call 1 800-CRIME-TV

  186. If Merril isnt FLDS anymore than just what is he?
    An “Older than the Hills Lost Boy”..?
    Maybe its the new strategy – get bounced from the Church so the Judge takes pity on you?

    ———————————-

    I think I have read that one reason Carolyn Jessop’s daughter Betty insisted on returning to the FLDS when she reached 18 was because of her close relationship with her father.

    I wonder how all this is affecting her now.

  187. No Priesthood hubby no exaltation for Betty, Daddy getting ‘handled’ has left her at the mercy of whoever is the next Bishop at the YFZ Raunch. Given her mother’s notoriety probably affords her some protection but only if she chooses to vacate her stance and seek a reconciliation with her Mommy. Women and children are outright possessions and property of the Priesthood and Prophet, so Betty’s status is greatly diminished with her father’s fall from grace.

  188. Stamp, I like your “Plygistan” word, but I can also relate to “plygUtah” as a sarcastic comparison to the new “world-wide” documentary festival series from Dixie State College called “DocUtah”.

    Maybe we should combine the two words and make it “Plygistan in PlygUtah”.

    That sums it up and works for me!

  189. Third Cousin, there was a recent recount of Orson William Black’s escape from the custody of Washington County’s POS Sheriff and County Attorney Eric Ludlow (future 5th District Judge). I think it was on a recent post commenting about Troy Bowles. Why don’t you search this blog for “Troy Bowles” and read it. I am much too tired to reiterate it tonight.

    In the meantime, you can read more about the scumbag Orson William (Will) Black, the local FLDS meth dealer and pedophile here –

    http://www.childbrides.org/tamara.html

  190. Interesting side note on Blaine Jeffs. He’s one of those who married a woman and then married that woman’s oldest daughter. His 3rd wife Joni Cooke is the daughter of his 2nd wife, Samantha Johnson. Joni was 16 when her mother married Blaine and 18 when Blaine married her.

    Anonymous said this on May 15, 2011 at 10:01 AM

    Incest? Coercion? Perversion? Pedophilia? Child abuse? Who us?

  191. If Merril isnt FLDS anymore than just what is he?
    An “Older than the Hills Lost Boy”..?
    Maybe its the new strategy – get bounced from the Church so the Judge takes pity on you?

    ———————————-

    I think I have read that one reason Carolyn Jessop’s daughter Betty insisted on returning to the FLDS when she reached 18 was because of her close relationship with her father.

    I wonder how all this is affecting her now.

    Anon E Mouse said this on May 15, 2011 at 4:01 PM

    ___________

    Anon E Mouse, I hope that Betty is seeing her father, Merril, for the coward he is in dragging out this Texas trial. Maybe Merril thinks that he will drag out the inevitable and die before he gets his comeuppance for “marrying” off his little 12-year-old daughter (Betty’s little sister) to the 50+ year old pedophile prophet, Warren Jeffs.

    I think that Betty is a pretty bright young lady. So, IF SHE KNOWS THE TRUTH about what her father has done (and it has not been kept secret from the YFZ faithful followers), then I bet Betty is about to “puke” regarding what her father did to her little 12-year-old sister.

  192. Salt Lake City mayor, city leadership decline to investigate actions of LE in polygamy Elizabeth Smart relateded kidnap case, even though former SLC mayor Anderson disagrees stating: “”I sure think this community is ill-served by the unanswered questions and the issue being dropped.”

    Read the rest: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home2/51797383-183/smart-police-department-mitchell.html.csp?page=1

    I would agree that investigation should be conducted, it seems there are many unanswered questions, such as why evidence pointing to polygamy was ignored while an ex con was fingered for the crime even though he had no history sex crimes.

  193. How are behaviors by Orson William Black all that different from the YFZ Raunch Priesthood members? Both hid behind their women and children trying to evade their reponsibilities and arrests by placing their families into the confrontation. Black had a preference for ‘Child Brides’ as did Warren Jeffs to assert his celestial seal of approval on bedding even pre-teen girls. Black, also, has in common with ‘Warrant’ that he chose the fugitive route to evade Justice and answer for his crimes. So the similarities are striking and a common patriarchal mindset, that what really is important and of a higher value is the Priesthood man and not the mothers or children.

    The crossing of International borders with impugnity to either flee or import more ‘Child Brides’.

  194. More Sister wives drama

    Who woulda thunkd it?

    http://www.hollywoodlife.com/2011/05/16/sister-wives-kody-brown-las-vegas-move/

  195. Someone tell that kid that a lifestyle choice can, indeed, be a crime. Dealing meth, for instance, is a lifestyle choice.

  196. http://polygamybooks.org/2011/05/11/the-natural-man.aspx

    There is a new post on John Llewellyn’s blog.

  197. another post on Sister wives – since you guys seem to know a lot about who is who – who is David Preston Jessop? He must be related some way to the rest of the Jessop’s.

    Robyn Sullivan, the younger fourth wife of Sister Wives’ Kody Brown, has become the breakout star of their controversial TLC reality show about polygamy — much to the chagrin of her ex-husband!

    David Preston Jessop, the father of Robyn’s three young children is one of the untold mysteries of the previous life that Star has uncovered in our Oct. 25 issue exposé. We report on Robyn’s broken childhood, her shy high school years and the collapse of her marriage to David.

    Now, David is outraged that Robyn has allowed their children to appear on Sister Wives. A family friend tells Star, “The very last thing on Earth that David Preston wants is to have the private lives of his kids televised.”

  198. Watergirl, I have David Preston Jessop born in 1979 son of Louis LaMar Jessop (DOB 1939) and Mary Diane Allred (DOB 1941). I believe these Jessops were AUB in Pinesdale, Montana.

  199. My David Preston Jessop is the grandson of Joseph Lyman Jessop and the great grandson of Joseph Smith Jessop.

  200. On this topic, I have to agree with David Preston.

  201. 3C, who is Louis Lamar’s mother?

  202. PT, Winnie Porter, born 1898 in Colonia Dublan, daughter of Edson Darius Porter and Catherine Aurelia Carling. Edson was also married to Catherine’s sister, Phoebe Malinda.

  203. Mitchell’s defense attorneys: Elizabeth Smart not a victim of extreme psychological injury

    Yeah, right! Lawyers can be such scumbags sometimes to save the hides of their child-molesting clients. I can’t wait to hear the BS coming out of Warren’s lawyers in July!

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/51824044-78/smart-mitchell-attorneys-defense.html.csp

  204. PT and TC, ya’ll make a great genealogy team.

  205. PT, you are correct, I mixed up Donna and Linda. And 3c,and pt, you are both right about Davids lineage. I believe David lives in the Cedar City area, and is part of the AUB.
    Interestingly, the AUB told its erstwhile followers in Missouri to move back to Utah, or Pinesdale, to be in the “priesthood fold” and if they didn’t, they would be considered out of harmony with the brethren. Very few if any have moved back.

  206. RE : Sister Wives – That show disgusts me. All the phony crying and whining.

  207. Thanks Anon@ 7:48. I like to think so.

  208. PT is awesome with genealogy. Simply awesome.

  209. 3C is too NocAnon. Has lots that I don’t have.

  210. Aw, shucks, PT.

  211. Today in Mormon History –

    Dr. Max Haenle, a German non-Mormon, who visited Utah in the late twenties and became a friend of Anthony W. Ivins, speaks to a District Conference in Dresden on “Utah, Land of the Mormons.”
    DER STERN reports Haenle made “comparisons … throughout the whole lecture between the Mormon state founded 86 years ago today by Brigham Young in Utah and Adolf Hitler’s Third Reich. . . . In its political productivity, its organization forms, and its unswerving successes in the various areas of governmental, social, and communal life,” Haenle proclaimed, “Utah bears a really striking similarity to our Germany of today. Here as well as there, the unshakable faith in and willingness to die for their Fuhrer [respective leaders] is the foundation and prerequisite for all further development.”

    – 75 years ago today – May 16, 1936

  212. Yup, third cuz rocks.

  213. Who is 3C third cousin to? Anyone in particular?

  214. Mitchell’s defense attorneys: Elizabeth Smart not a victim of extreme psychological injury

    Yeah, right! Lawyers can be such scumbags sometimes to save the hides of their child-molesting clients. I can’t wait to hear the BS coming out of Warren’s lawyers in July!

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/51824044-78/smart-mitchell-attorneys-defense.html.csp

    Anonymous said this on May 16, 2011 at 7:46 PM

    IMO you are correct, the actions of these defense lawyers are shocking as if polygamy victims don’t suffer from extreme psychological injury. Lets ask Carolyn Jessop, Elissa Wall if this is so. Not likely IMO. Sounds like these lawyers are inhaling from the same bong as Wally bowtie and FLDS wannabe lawyer Parker.

    And yes it will be interesting to see what BS the lawyers toss out at Jeffs trial, you can bet it will something that the writers of the HBO show “Big Love” will be saying wow we should have though of that as a storyline.

  215. 3C’s related to most of the Crick in some way or another, especially all those who seem to get arrested and show up on the Washington County Sheriff’s Office page.

  216. I can’t wait for Warren’s trial and hope to have a front row seat. While waiting for that show though, Wendell has a PreTrial hearing June 6, Warren has one June 16 and Merril on June 27. Looks like June is a threefer. One every 10 days or so.

  217. A three-fer? Maybe I should take some vacation time in Texas next month.

  218. You’d have to stay the whole month to see em all, but you might even get a Thugly thrown in for good measure. Come on BiB, we’ll leave the light on for ya.

  219. Who is 3C third cousin to? Anyone in particular?

    Nocturnal Anon said this on May 16, 2011 at 9:07 PM

    Half of Short Creek AND Pinesdale!

  220. The “Sister Wives” Kody Brown family is part of the AUB (Allred) Group. I read that the AUB leaders weren’t too happy about them going public and doing a TV reality show about their polygamous family. It also makes sense that David Preston Jessop (Robyn’s ex-husband) is/was an Allred, too if he is the grandson of Lyman Jessop.

    Lyman Jessop left the Short Creek group when they were trying to create the UEP Trust. He saw that communal living would never work and wanted no part of it. He was married to Rulon and Owen Allred’s sister, Beth, and he took up with the AUB instead.

    My only question is if this Lyman Jessop was formally named Joseph Lyman Jessop or Lyman Edson Jessop – father of the FLDS Edson Jessop Sr. and grandfather of Edson Jessop, Jr. – the one married to Zavenda Young who left most of her older children in Short Creek and hightailed it off to the YFZ with only her youngest kids. I think Zavenda told reporters and CPS that she had no other children than the ones taken during the YFZ raid. How can a loving mother disregard her other children and say that?

  221. The Lyman Jessop I mentioned above was the son of Joseph Smith Jessop and the brother of Uncle Fred Jessop and Richard Jessop (among others). Richard Jessop (Uncle Rich) was Merril Jessop’s father. Uncle Fred was the bishop of Short Creek until Warren had him taken away in December 2003 before Warren’s reign of terror really began.

  222. Nocturnal, I have multiple different family connections in the fundy groups but I chose my moniker because most of the relatives in the various groups that are my age are third cousins to me. I also chose it for the children of my second cousin, Sylvia Allred (2nd wife of Isaac Carling Spencer). I never knew Sylvia but felt a special kinship in learning about her life and family.

  223. It is my understanding that the Kody Brown family lived near Powell, Wyoming (before moving to Utah) instead of in the AUB community in Pinesdale, Montana.

  224. Anon 10:58, your Lyman Jessop is the one named Joseph Lyman Jessop, (1892-1963), son of Joseph Smith Jessop and Martha Moore Yeates.

  225. Third Cousin, I did go on my tour of Johnson Canyon in Kane County. It is really beautiful country. Our “tour guide” was a long-time local and said that the Johnsons who lived in Johnson Canyon were indeed related to the Warren Johnson family of Lonely Dell/Lee’s Ferry. I guess they disowned their polygamous relatives when they went more “mainstream” Mormon.

    We also visited the old set where they filmed the TV show “Gun Smoke”. It is rapidly deteriorating – may not last another couple of years before the rest of the buildings fall down. The gallows is probably the only thing withstanding the weather. What a shame.

    We also visited Best Friends Animal Sanctuary. Our local “tour guide” said that it used to be a cult, but the folks at the Sanctuary won’t tell you that. He said that it was run by a Prophetess who told her followers whom and when they would marry. SOUND FAMILIAR? She lived in a house where EVERYTHING was black granite.

    Since the Prophetess died, the place has become more “mainstream/normal”. It is an amazing place located on a lot of beautiful acreage. It is like the Ritz Carlton of animal shelters and the animals are really spoiled and treated with tons of TLC. The “Michael Vick” pit bull fighter dogs were sent there. The folks at Best Friends have worked wonders with those dogs. Some are so damaged that they will never be able to be adopted out. But, a few have recently been adopted.

    If you are ever in the area, I suggest that you go tour Best Friends Animal Sanctuary. Just be careful though, you might get “adopted” by one of their critters. I did and brought her home last week.

  226. Thanks for the clarification TC. So Joseph Lyman Jessop was his full name and he named his son Edson … who named his son Edson. That’s what I thought, but just wasn’t sure about it. It gets really confusing sometimes, especially in later generations when they use the same names OVER AND OVER again.

    Maybe we should take up a collection and buy some “Baby Names” books. They might start a new generation of Tiffany Barlows, Heather Jessops and Tyler Jeffs.

  227. Wow, anon 11:29! An adoption – congratulations. I have toured the Sanctuary and it was wonderful – but I had no idea there was a cultish history there. Glad you had a good trip.

    I knew those two Johnsons families were related back somewhere, but I cannot make the connection yet. I’m glad to know there is something there. That happened in my family too – branches were hacked off the official genealogy by LDS faithful embarrassed by the family plygs.

  228. Third Cousin, next time you’re in Kanab, contact the folks at Mosdell Mortuary. Maybe they can help you connect the dots on the Johnson families.

  229. Ah, great idea on the mortuary.

  230. On Edson Porter Jessop Jr. (DOB 1957), anybody know which of Edson Porter Sr.’s wives was junior’s mommy?

  231. BIB, if you go, you must consider staying at the chicken farm art center bed and breakfast in San Angelo (40 minute drive from Eldorado). Perhaps Proud Texan could weigh in. http://www.chickenfarmartcenter.com/ My very favorite place to stay in all of West Texas is a rustic old homestead rented out on a huge family cattle ranch in the middle of utter nowhere in rural Upton County, but that would be over a two hour drive. To me, it would be worth it.

    Hmm, now I’m getting a hankering for west Texas….. It’s been at least 18 months.

  232. The Johnson’s from Lee’s Ferry are not related to the Johnson Canyon Johnsons..If they are it is way back or through marriage.I thought i was related until a lady in Kanab showed me i was not…i was really surprised.

  233. PT, Winnie Porter, born 1898 in Colonia Dublan, daughter of Edson Darius Porter and Catherine Aurelia Carling. Edson was also married to Catherine’s sister, Phoebe Malinda.

    Third Cousin said this on May 16, 2011 at 6:38 PM

    So, is the “Porter” middle name of FLDS member Edson Porter Jessop from this Winnie Porter of Colonia Dublan? And the Edson part of the name came from her father?

    It also looks like the “plural wife sister act” has gone on for generations with the Mormons who practice polygamy.

  234. Yes, anon 1:42, very common for our mormon ancestors on all sides of the border to be given their mother’s surname as their middle name. It’s akin to Mexican people having their mother’s surname as their second surname. There, you might be named Anna Mae Chatwin Gonzalez if your dad was a Chatwin and your mom a Gonzalez. And yeah, actual sisters as sister wives has been going on for a long time.

  235. 3C, Edson Porter Jessop Jr.’s mother is Margaret Lucille Hunter, one of Edson Sr.’s 6 wives.

    As for the Chicken Farm, I might be one of the few who have never been there although I hear they have a terrific restaurant. As for the location, I think the hearings on the 6th and the 16th are both in San Angelo. Merril’s might be in Eldorado though, I’m not sure. When it gets closer I’ll call the clerk and see for sure.

    For the anon who’s questions the name of Joseph Lymon Jessop’s son, be assured that there is a Joseph Lymon, Jr, III, IV and V. So far as I know, Joseph V doesn’t have a VI yet.

    Edson Porter was the 2nd son from Winnie Porter. Lymon Sr was also married to Winnie’s sister Rachel Maleta Porter, Beth Allred and Lucille Stokes Zitting. Lucille died a year after the marriage with no kids.

    3C, do you have the children of Beth Allred and Lymon?

  236. Because its funny, and Wayne Chang is suing the Winkle vi Brothers.

    Warning: Vertigo limit for some.

    http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/BoXu6QmxpJE?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0

  237. Has it been three years since the Jeffites got their clock cleaned?

    Three hearings in June – wow its taken a while.

    So I suspect this wont be ending anytime soon. It’ll be nice to see Warren et al convicted and stuffed into their new homes though, I expect by EOY.

  238. Third Cousin –

    I would like to extend to you my greetings, and I would like to ordain you as a High Priestesshood Holder in our elite religious order, the First Church of the Holy Matriarchs of the WTF Ranch.
    Welcome, dear sister.
    See this link : https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2010/01/23/open-discussion-24/

  239. Here’s the DNews take on the attorneys saying “didn’t suffer extreme psychological injury” in sentencing of Mitchell.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705372796/Attorneys-say-Elizabeth-Smart-wasnt-that-psychologically-damaged.html

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=15578974

    Appears attorneys IMO are going out on a limb on this one, like attorneys claiming Warren Jeff is innocent, give me a break with the lawyer BS.

  240. KS, I couldn’t be more pleased! I look forward to being a scarce resource and manipulating the many for my own selfish purposes.

    Proposal: Temple sessions at the Reata, Priestesshood meetings at the Gage, and Exploitation Society meetings at this cafe in tiny Crane, Texas that makes the best chicken fried chicken and gravy ever. I don’t remember the name but I can drive right to it.

  241. PT, here’s your 13 kids of Joseph Lyman Jessop and Beth Allred:Winnie Faye, Evelyn, Eula, Shirley Joan, Harvey Allred, Aaron Allred, Jeryl, Donna Beth, Rulon Leon, Elaine Renae, Genevieve, and Violet Aleta.

    In addition to being married to Winnie & Rachel Porter, Lyman also married Beth’s sister Olive, after she had been previously married to Morris Quincy Kunz and had at least 6 kids with him. I think she was unhappy and divorced Morris but I don’t know that for sure.

  242. That Kunz name rings a bell. Who else was Morris married to? I don’t have my genealogy in front of you.

    3C, you sound well versed in the local eateries in Texas. Have you ever heard of scraps at Twin Mountain Steak House?

  243. PT, I have MQK married to Rhea and Olive Allred, Ellen Halliday, Rachel Alveda Jessop, Ruth Margaret Yeates, and Margaret Caroline Mills. Olive is the mother of Irene Golda Kunz LeBaron Spencer who wrote the great books on her life in the LeBaron groups.

    Sadly, I’m completely ignorant of the Twin Mountain Steak House.

  244. None of those sound familiar. I’ll check when I’m back home and see who I am thinking about.

    If/when you come out to any hearings/trials, we’ll rectify you lack of knowledge about scraps.

  245. Maybe Schwarzenegger should have a revelation from God.

  246. He argued that Piccarreta and Jeffs had no standing to file the challenge to the Texas search because during his incarceration in the Washington County Jail in Utah Jeffs had relinquished his leadership of the church and his control of church property… The Lord has shown me that I am one of the most wicked men on the face of the Earth since the days of Adam that I do not hold priesthood anymore and that you my family should look to Brother William E.

  247. Here’s Ben Winslow’s report on Brian David Mitchell”s lawyers claiming that victim didn’t suffer psychological damage.

    http://www.fox13now.com/videobeta/88ce2efc-deed-4f9f-95a6-6ebc13f60539/News/Defense-Smart-not-psychologically-damaged

    Ben Winslow has reported numerous stories on this case as well as the FLDS and Warren Jeffs. Guess he gets the polygamist stories. Watch how the defense lawyer tries to crawfish when questioned by the reporter.

    IMO Jeffs and Mitchell are two sides of the same coin.

  248. “Emack is scheduled Wednesday to finally get his appeal in the 3rd District Court of Appeals. His attorneys have denounced the search warrant that led to the raid on the Yearning for Zion ranch as invalid, arguing that reams of evidence seized are therefore tainted.

    “At the heart of Emack’s appeal is that the phone calls that initiated the raid didn’t come from a girl inside the ranch as originally thought.

    “…‘The 6-day siege of the YFZ Ranch community in April of 2008 was a law enforcement debacle of unprecedented scope and magnitude,’ wrote Gerald Goldstein, Emack’s attorney, in a 49-page brief filed last month.”

    Full story:
    http://www.statesman.com/news/texas/flds-member-1st-to-appeal-texas-conviction-1481163.html

  249. Yep, oral arguments tomorrow before a 3 Judge panel.

  250. I can’t wait for Warren’s trial and hope to have a front row seat. While waiting for that show though, Wendell has a PreTrial hearing June 6, Warren has one June 16 and Merril on June 27. Looks like June is a threefer. One every 10 days or so.

    Anonymous said this on May 16, 2011 at 9:21 PM
    _________

    You’d have to stay the whole month to see em all, but you might even get a Thugly thrown in for good measure. Come on BiB, we’ll leave the light on for ya.

    Proud Texan said this on May 16, 2011 at 9:43 PM
    _______

    Hey, if they throw in a Thugly hearing during June it’ll be an FLDS Grand Slam-mer!

  251. Keeping Sweet, smart move to indoctrinate, oops I meant invite, Third Cousin to join the Holy Order of the WTF Ranch. She’ll be a really good Priestesshood Holder. It is good to grab her before another cult, oops I meant rival group, gets her.

    I just hope that she doesn’t come on board and try to immediately take over the Prophetess position. She’s pretty smart and obviously well connected!

  252. Rhea Allred Kunz was the daughter of Byron Harvey Allred – Rulon, Owen, Beth, et al’s father. Rulon Allred converted to polygamy after reading his father’s book “A Leaf in Review”.

    Rhea Allred Kunz wrote a double-volume on the wonders of polygamy herself. I have never been able to “stomach” my way through it though.

    There is a great book about Beth Allred Jessop by her daugher, Violet. It is called “Beth” and can be purchased on lulu.com. She was a remarkable lady and her story is a good read.

  253. Anon @8:50, I doubt Thugly will have a hearing anytime soon, but he might show up at any or all of the other 3 hearings. The way I hear it, he’s really busy in the Crick telling the Sheeple that they’d better hurry and join Fugly’s side before the Court of Appeals throws the evidence out and Warren is released.

    First, I don’t think the evidence will be thrown out and if Emack’s appeal should be granted by the Court of Appeals, it’s a sure bet that it will be appealed to the Court of Criminal Appeals, just like if the State wins this round, Emack will appeal it to the CCA. But that has nothing to do with Warren’s situation. The majority of the evidence against him comes from the famous red Caddy he was touring around it, or so I’m told.

  254. 3C, checked my Morris Kunz info. Which of his wives is the mother of Rula Jane Kunz who married David Jessop Broadbent? I don’t have him listed with any wife, just as Rula’s father.

  255. Ole Nevermissashot is back on the Washington County Sheriff’s page.

  256. PT, I’m so jealous of that surname I can’t stand it.

    On Rula Kunz, I have thus far been unable to ID which wife was her mama. Anybody know?

  257. Yep PT, Roger has been consistently in the court system for several years for one charge after another. He “Never” seems to “missashot” at having his mug shot plastered on the Internet or in the local newspaper. He is bad news for LE in Washington County. What a LOSER!

  258. @anon 9:11 – I only recently found out about Rhea Allred’s written works, and I’d love to read them, although I’d probably have the same reaction as you. And thanks for the tip on the bio of Beth Allred Jessop, I did not know it existed. I would even read A Leaf In Review – I am fascinated by what led our relatives down these paths.

  259. I might need to get that book on Beth also.

  260. He argued that Piccarreta and Jeffs had no standing to file the challenge to the Texas search because during his incarceration in the Washington County Jail in Utah Jeffs had relinquished his leadership of the church and his control of church property… The Lord has shown me that I am one of the most wicked men on the face of the Earth since the days of Adam that I do not hold priesthood anymore and that you my family should look to Brother William E.
    business daily said this on May 17, 2011 at 1:44 PM

    Who argued?

  261. Pic the prick didn’t have standing to argue anything in Texas because he isn’t licensed to practice law there. As for arguing the Texas search warrant in Arizona or Utah, neither state has the right to rule on the search warrant in another state.

  262. Where can I obtain copies of these books ? Amazon ?

  263. BIB, Alibris.com is my clearinghouse for old and out of print books.

  264. On today’s date in 1666 my 8th great grandmother was tried and convicted in the Hartford Connecticut witch trials, almost 30 years prior to the fiasco in Salem.

  265. Michael Emack’s stated reason for accepting a plea bargain in his case was a face saving path to being publicly villified and humiliated. Then his Attorney Goldstein, in printed reports, claims that Emack was convinced that he could not recieve a fair trial? Today they argue that an unlawful ‘Search & Seizure’ occurred so it is more than just a little confusing on why an innocent person would plea bargain if they had been unjustly charged or denied their due process?

  266. TC, did they execute her ? What was her name ?

  267. Today in Mormon History –

    In the First District Court at Ogden,Utah, John Thomas, of Logan, Utah, was sentenced by Judge Miner to sixty days’ imprisonment; and Niels C. Andersen, of Hyrum, Utah, to pay a fine of $50; both for u.c. [Unlawful Cohabitation, I.E. living with a polygamous wife] Both were taken to the Penitentiary, as Andersen, who had been imprisoned once before for the same offence, was unable to pay his fine.
    — 120 years ago today – May 18, 1891

  268. Her name was Johannah “Hannah” Wakeman Hackleton (1638-1700). She was convicted of murder and blasphemy in Rex v. Hannah Hackleton. Connecticut had recently stopped executing witches and she spent a year in prison and was sentenced to 5 years indentured servitude. The guy she was indentured to (Duke of York regiment soldier Edward Whittaker 1640-1695) knocked her up and he was required to marry her after she took him to court. They had two more children after that.

  269. 3C: You surely have some interesting ancestors. I enjoy reading about them.

  270. TC

    Very interesting story – with a surprising good ending – made me laugh!

  271. funny post, not sure its truthful, on the Emack hearing

    “grenchy

    8:59 AM on May 18, 2011

    Does the Church of Latter Day Saints still practice bigamy?

    I once dated a mormon about 19yrs ago; he was a doctor. His answer to my question was, “if your neighbors husband dies then you act as a temp husband”.

    I didn’t quite understand the theory except to avoid any more dates or encounters with this very handsome guy. I had this urge never to see him again.”

    Read more:

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7569821.html#ixzz1MirUOLom

  272. Well the 3rd Court of Appeals this morning was given two questions to ponder by Robert Udashen, defense attorney for Michael Emack. Firstly, was there a legal ‘probable cause’ to grant the search warrant that ultimately revealed evidence that indicted Emack on rape and bigamy charges. Secondly, was there a specific enough adress/location for the search warrant to cover the single ranch or broader community dwelling upon the YFZ Ranch. Judge Diane Henson will take the appeal under advisement and make a later ruling based upon Emack’s hearing and appeal. Asst. AG Eric Nichols handled the arguments for the State of Texas so a positive result for the State should be expected.

  273. First appeal wound up in FLDS criminal case

    Read the San Angelo article:
    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/may/18/first-appeal-wound-up-in-flds-criminal-case/

  274. I read a better article written by the AP, but they lost credibility points by using a picture of Leroy Jessop and saying it was Emack.

    I’ll see if I can find the link.

  275. Is this the link, PT? Wrong photo!

    http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Texas-asks-appeals-court-to-uphold-FLDS-conviction-1384336.php

  276. Yep, that’s it.

  277. BiB, I got my copy of Rhea Kunz’ books (2 volume set) on Abebooks.com. It is old and out of print and I believe self-published. Expect to pay mega bucks.

    The Beth Allred book is for sale on lulu.com. It too is self-published (printed by lulu) and was offered by a guy named Nate Allred. I bought mine a few years ago.

  278. “…Asst. AG Eric Nichols handled the arguments for the State of Texas so a positive result for the State should be expected.”

    Would you please clarify, Jim. Do you mean that “a positive result” would be that laws are upheld or that the states’ agenda is carried out by the appeals court?

  279. This one of yours 3C? I don’t have him in my database.

    HOLM, JOSHUA SHANE
    Birth Date: 03/04/90
    Address : 2207 S 2440 E CIR, St George, UT
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    03:11:00 05/18/11 Baldwin, Greg SGPD

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    WARRANT-CASH WARRANT-CASH ONLY BM WCJ7 1871.00 [No Payments Made]

  280. You know a anon, if you’d quit looking for a conspiracy in every corner it would be helpful.

    You know what else would have been helpful, if the FLDS hadn’t been breaking all sorts of laws behind that locked gate. If there hadn’t been anything to find, the law enforcement would have done their search for Sarah, said thank you and left. It was only after they got in and the lies started to unravel so law enforcement went back for a 2nd search warrant.

    Merril Jessop had told the Sheriff that there were about 125 people total at that ranch. Guess what, there were more than 3 times that many children alone. The FLDS just piled lie up on lie up on lie.

  281. PT, not sure, but he’s got a 2008 prior.

  282. Doesn’t surprise me a bit 3C.

  283. What are you guys still doing here? Don’t you guys know that Saturday is the Rapture? BTW – I’m running a “Rapture Special” for taking care of your special pets. Since they won’t be taken up into heaven, this heathen will take care of Fido or Kitty for a mere $100. A substantial savings over our usual $150 rate.

    Mastercard and Visa accepted. 🙂

  284. Interesting interview of Elizabeth Smart by SLTrib paper:

    Link to printed article:

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/51840123-78/smart-foundation-plans-tribune.html.csp#disqus_thread

  285. Ron, what do you MEAN pets won’t be “lifted up”? At least animals don’t house malice.

    This is a hilarious (even if staged) debate of across-the-street church signs:
    http://www.collegehumor.com/picture/3586343

  286. On today’s date in 1666 my 8th great grandmother was tried and convicted in the Hartford Connecticut witch trials, almost 30 years prior to the fiasco in Salem.

    Third Cousin said this on May 18, 2011 at 10:14 AM

    WOW TC, you have a very colorful genealogy!

  287. Merry Blasphemer, I do adore your posts and your moniker!

  288. Today in Mormon History –

    In the First District Court at Ogden,Utah, John Thomas, of Logan, Utah, was sentenced by Judge Miner to sixty days’ imprisonment; and Niels C. Andersen, of Hyrum, Utah, to pay a fine of $50; both for u.c. [Unlawful Cohabitation, I.E. living with a polygamous wife] Both were taken to the Penitentiary, as Andersen, who had been imprisoned once before for the same offence, was unable to pay his fine.
    – 120 years ago today – May 18, 1891

    Merry Blasphemer said this on May 18, 2011 at 10:25 AM

    And life never changes in Utah. Maybe they should change the state motto from “Life Elevated” to “Life at a Stand Still”.

  289. I do, anon 11:21, but I really think we all do, it’s just that ours has been researched. I would provide research support to anyone with good intentions, and I imagine that Proud Texan would also.

  290. Uh oh, that “good intentions” crap could be misinterpreted. All I meant is that I would never provide information that might endanger folks. Some are still in hiding.

  291. PT, But there is a conspiracy in every corner. That said, I find the allegations regarding thier actions distasteful but we HAVE TO BE mindful of obeying the laws in prosecuting them or we can’t expect to be protected by the laws as well, in any event. Who is to stop each of us from becoming “a law unto himself” if this is allowed to continue without review from an unbiased court?

  292. a anon, the FLDS seems to consider themselves a “law unto themselves” already because their members broke into a locked building without the fiduciary’s knowledge, consent or permission. A fiduciary is someone who has the legal authority and the responsibility over a certain property. The FLDS burglarized and then vandalized a building they did not have authority to enter.

    After that, they stole other people’s property, burned some of it and then drove the rest across state lines and just gave it away to multiple places in a totally different state.

    After that, they changed the locks on the building they had no legal right to enter or possess.

    That was morally, ethically and legally wrong and it has now become a felony burglary, vandalism, theft and arson crime. There WILL be repercussions! The FLDS is NOT above the law of the land, my friend.

  293. Two wrongs don’t make a right!

  294. a anon: I presume you are talking about the search warrants being a “wrong”. If the appeals and other courts rule that the YFZ search warrants are invalid; I will fully accept that decision. If those courts rule that the search warrants are valid will you uphold and support that decision??

  295. You are totally correct a anon, 2 wrongs don’t make a right. That said the wrong of impregnating an underage girl (WRONG 1) and then covering up such impregnation behind locked gates (WRONG 2) don’t make that action right.

    I’m like chemist, if the YFZ search warrants are deemed invalid in the end then I too will accept that determination. Can you and other sympathizers say the same thing if the warrants are upheld in the end? Or will you continue down the “poor pitiful me” route?

  296. Not only do I not think the search warrants were wrong, I completely agree with removing the children. I think the ruling to return them rapidly and without completing the investigation was dead wrong in view of what we now know. Dropping the CPS investigation abruptly was dead wrong. If you applied the same facts to a non religious, non communal living situation no way in hell would children be allowed to stay in a home where 12 year olds were mothers by instruction from a single male and pretty much every family member lied to the LE about it.

  297. If the search warrant is overturned because of the hoax call, that would have to be appealed because it would be a precedent that was a huge threat to public safety in general. If police had to research the history of someone reporting domestic abuse before they went in to investigate the abuse, many women would injured or die as a result of the delay. One of the ways police investigate a call to see if it is really a problem is to go to the site and interview those involved. The only reason this was a huge trauma on the ranch is that the people on the ranch were in violation of the law in multiple ways and they knew that.

  298. Betty asked: “Or will you continue down the “poor pitiful me” route?”

    I think we know the answer to that question for many of the flds supporters. Also Betty, I like your point about the impregnation of young girls being wrong regardless of what happens with the search warrant rulings. Getting 12-14 year old girls pregnant is not only wrong and illegal, it is reprehensible and evil.

  299. Yes Betty and the tactics employed by the FLDS Church came right out of the 1952 playbook. “Don’t take our wives and children” there our breastworks when the constable arrives. Constables have no right to tell us how to live our lives, ain’t that right sister wives? Now gather all of the children together and tell them not to ask us,”Who’s my Daddy, smile for the Press corp kids”.
    How come the YFZ Ranch held a Press Corp Open House to espouse the truth about all the false ‘Child Bride’ allegations and then never found the nerve to ask the Press Corp back again to redress all of their false statements at the Open House?

    I can still remember attorney Rod Parker’s off camera comment, when ‘Child Bride’ pregnancies were being mentioned,”It never happened”. This statement was from Rod who had been living in Salt Lake City but was vouching for the activities that had taken place at the YFZ Ranch. Seven guilty verdicts now prove to us otherwise.

  300. In a sense, it was NOT a hoax call. There WERE 16 year old girls being abused. And 15, 14, 13 and 12 year olds, too.

  301. Chemist the wholesale sex trafficking from Bountiful, Canada into the Twin City area is proof positive of a fanatical religious sect run amuck. Not even International Borders, Canada’s own laws or denying a child’s nationality gives this group of zealots any pause to respect their own country. The Republic of Polygistan has the allegiance of this FLDS sect members and no ‘Gentile’ power is acknowledged or adhered to except the Prophet.

  302. The way I understand it, the first search warrant was looking for Sarah Jessop Barlow. While they were looking for Sarah on the ranch they saw pregnant teenagers, so they went back and got a different search warrant and began the search for any and all abused teenagers.

    So of the girls might have been adults at the time of the search, but they had children while under age. 2 of Sally Jeffs daughters come to mind in that category, Janet and Pamela. Another daughter, LeAnn, was told by her “husband” LeRoy that she was 18 when in fact she was really 16. LeAnn had not only already had a child, she was pregnant again. LeRoy is currently serving a 75 year sentence.

  303. Thanks, thats how I remember it.

    The lies those folks told didnt help them any.

  304. May be faulty memory, but wasm’t there an FBI search warrant making 3 different warrants for the search of the YFZ compound.

  305. Brooke twitted that Finney farm closed this weekend due to “Bad economy”

    AHHHHH I can think of several reasons why the economy could be bad out there, if Lyle told the locals to quit spending their WIC vouchers there it would really hurt.

    Yeah I suppose it would close them down.

  306. Chemist

    Correct – and it was the federal warrant that got them to bring jack hammers to the temple and annex.

    ————–

    “Authorities in Texas have confirmed they executed a federal search warrant on the Fundamentalist LDS Church’s YFZ Ranch.
    In a statement issued by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of Texas, the FBI’s Dallas office said the federal search warrant was executed at the Eldorado compound on Tuesday.

    “The application and affidavit in support of the search warrant are sealed and will remain sealed; no further comment will be made as this is a pending investigation,” U.S. Attorney Richard Roper said in a statement released this afternoon.”

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/695269233/FBI-confirms-warrant-served-at-FLDS-ranch.html

  307. Stamp: Thanks for confirming my memory and for the link. Nice to know that my memory still works, even as it gets older.

  308. LOL

    It HAS been three years – and despite the flak thrown up by the apologists the facts remain!

  309. The stuff from the federal search warrant is the reason that Goldy got Merril a continuance.

  310. PT , I think you meant Raymond Merril Jessop who instructed LeeAnn to lie about her age and his computer data was later proven to have been purged of family photos that would incriminate him. He did receive a 75 year sentence, as the first guilty verdict, but his lengthy term was to set an example and is known as a ‘Deterrent’ sentence. After his stiff sentencing two other indicted Priesthood men plead their pleas to lesser sentencing.

  311. I just hate it when the feds raid my kiddie compound.

  312. Heah RICO, Is it true that Brooke Adams is still trying to put the FLDS Church community into a brighter viewpoint, even after she has left her Polygamy Page and packed-in her blogsite, too funny. I wonder what her take on Willie R.’s fall from favor would be explained.

    Can anyone explain Madewacky’s silence in the past month?

  313. Brooke posted she would give an answer in a day.

    Big whoop. I’d heard she went back to school. The sltrib is struggling like all papers.

    Wouldnt it be funny if Willie opened up and started telling her all the true lies?

    errr the truth behind the lies

    LMAO

  314. Oh and maybe Bill woke up and smelled the coffee.

    Hugh? He is tip tapping out a sermon, there is a few trees in the forest up there that need an edjumacation!

    Because no peeps are going to buy his pile.

  315. You are wrong CAJim. Janet was Raymond’s victim. He got 10 years. LeAnn, who is Janet’s sister, was married to LeRoy, who is Raymond’s 1/2 brother. It is LeRoy who got the 75 year sentence. LeRoy was after the trials of Raymond and Allen Keate and the pleas of Emack and Lehi, so he was the 5th. Abram was 6th and Dutson Jr was 7th. The way it looks is that Warren will be 8th, Wendell will be 9th, Merril 10th and Leroy Johnson Steed 11th. Not sure about what is going on with Dr. Barlow.

  316. Oooppss, my bad thanx PT. It has become a parade, though.

  317. PT

    How in the hell do you keep all these guys straight?

    I dont think even they can figure themselves out.

  318. Database and Excel Chaps. Alphabetized with search features.

  319. PT I thought you had all the data memorized….

  320. Not hardly

  321. You are very impressive nonetheless, PT.

  322. Is it for sure that Warren threw out Merril? Or is it a cover for financial reasons and perhaps an understood “arrangement” until things settle down?

  323. After all – who has ever heard Merril speak out about anything or do anything except obey the rules of Warren?

  324. A o A

    Indeed Merril got the FLDS boot.

  325. I think A of A that “Warrants’ actions may well be yet another ruse to shor up his sagging, “Answer Them Nothing” campaign. he feels the noose now so his erratic reactions to real events points up his mental state and instability. We’ll see during his trial if his past junta is really gone or just temporarily replaced. His warnings to this Nation and all of these other countries,again, displays his unstable mentality.

  326. Do you think Merril’s booting is an indication that his family has been questioning the leadership and was a threat to Warren’s rule? Think about that poor little MaryAnne who was kept in CPS control for quite awhile and then her mother dies and then her father is arrested and faces jail along with her brothers. And then her prophet/priestly husband is also in jail. Hope that poor girl has had some good support. Cant imagine the “snuff it up and be tough” approach working very well on her. Maybe Merril’s family has had about enough.

  327. Since when have the Priesthoodlums been concerned for the situation of any one ‘Child Bride’ personal situation. If they have mass exported them from Canada, like live feed cattle stock, into the Short Creek area why would they be concerned about any single teen plural wife. The priesthoodlums are big on ‘reassignments’ after their gulag purges but they aren’t conerned about individual sisters, there are way to many cows for them to bother themselves. ‘Warrant’ has over 80+ plural wives so how is he going to populate his worlds from a cell-o-steel? Maybe artificial ‘InsemiNation’ will be his next revelation or ‘pregnancy by proxy’ anyone?

  328. The reasons for Merril’s, Willie’s and Wendell’s exing et al are still up in the air.

    Lots of reasons being floated, but at the end of the day, all that matters is “Warren says so”.

    But remember, Warren said THREE TIMES that he himself was the most evil man on earth and was never the Prophet.

    Shake and Bake, something in the oven got burnt!

  329. Well, Willie R. Jessop’s prediction is that when all of ‘Warrants’ evidence has been presented at trial, there will be a ‘Day of Wrecking’ for even the most fervent of the FLDS Chosen Ones, we’ll see about that.
    The FLDS faithful currently locked up on the ‘Lands of Refuge’ have got to be feeling pretty isolated from their flock. If the Twin City area remains the focal point then the ‘Templebuilders’ will have to be in doubt and questioning their futures.

  330. Priesthoodlums?

    Jim, I should never take a sip of anything just before reading one of your new words. I love it.

  331. Trucking, when the evidence does come out in court, will folks on the lands of refuge even get that information?

  332. An update on the matter of the EEO discrimination claim of Ronald Cooke against Colorado City, Arizona.

    http://www.kcsg.com/view/full_story/13351063/article-Discrimination-Suit-Against-FLDS-Dominated-Town-Can-Continue–?instance=home_stories3

  333. BIB

    Thanks as always!

    TC, I think they still have cell phones? That would be Warrens undoing, telling them they cant use those….

  334. Can’t say for sure how they will stay informed but enough has come to light that only a nocturnal fundy would not know by now to keep his light-on. Smart phones and Press coverage by local channels and print has improved dramatically on shining the light. How does ‘Warrant’ keep his control of the Celestial marketplace from his Texas jail cell? Bishop Lyle Jeffs and the other Bishops will have to hold more authority, so the whole ‘One Man Rule’ axiom becomes rather frayed and overtime the ‘scattered flock’ will become more autonomous.

  335. Ah yes the smart phones.

  336. I think they were told that they couldn’t use smart phones and/or texting phones.

    Also, the ones at the Crick are likely to get the information, not so sure about the ones on the Ranch. They are much more isolated and their media exposure can be much more controlled.

    And Jim, I like your new word too, but I’ve learned from experience not to drink anything when reading this site.

  337. Well, thanx for the kudos over Priesthoodlums, maybe you’ll like my other coinage Pimphet Jeffs.

  338. Is it for sure that Warren threw out Merril? Or is it a cover for financial reasons and perhaps an understood “arrangement” until things settle down?

    an older anonymous said this on May 20, 2011 at 12:34 PM

    Older anon, I don’t think anything is ever “for sure” in regards to Warren.

    One day in early 2007, Warren had a revelation that he is not the prophet,never was the prophet and wants his brother Nephi to tell all of his followers that he is one of the most evil men on earth. Warren publicly proclaims that he is not the prophet and that Wiliam R. Jessop is instead the rightful prophet. Now 4 years later, Warren decides he IS the profit. Was Warren just suffering from a case of terrible gas with each proclamation because he now realizes that his “revelations” stink?

  339. oops, I meant to say William E. Jessop, not William R. (Willie the Thug) Jessop.

    Boy, I wish the FLDS would come up with some new names!

    Hey FLDS, how about considering using some NEW names. It must be as confusing to you as it is for us. There are hundreds available that have not been overused:

    Zack
    Brandon
    Tyler
    Chester
    Bonnie
    Heather
    Tiffany
    Brooke – you’d relate to that name!

    Reach out and grow!

  340. well, if it makes you feel any better, I can think of people in the FLDS with every one of those names you listed there, anonymous… haha.

  341. Tribute to the end of the world as we know it.

  342. Whether it is William R or William E or both that said that, one thing they both haven’t learned is that when you leave a cult, *you* wake up (but are often blind to walking right into another cult), but you won’t be able to wake others up no matter how much evidence and internal inconsistency you point out. Even if Lyle should “apostatize” and tell what he dares (he would never tell everything), he wouldn’t get a lot of people to leave their religion. It will *still* be one person at a time waking up, unfortunately.

  343. Did I see Willie Jessop in the crowd?

    I dont know about everyone else, but three years out, its the end of the FLDS’ world as they knew it.

  344. Ah, anon, Michael Stipe. Perfect poetry for the day.

  345. Pimphet. I was so busy rolling over priesthoodlums that I practically missed another searingly appropriate manipulation of the english language.

  346. Dear Running deer, I saw a truck warming up for you in the back yard.

    Hope the snow melted enough for you to catch it.

  347. BTW that response was to a message left for me. I guess it was deleted.

  348. What did running dear say?

  349. Make that running deer….

  350. He wanted to be left alone, something about his feelings being hurt.

    – but besides his home address, he didnt say who he was.

  351. The post lacked the general courtesy we normally find here.

  352. What was funny is that he said “ME” three times in three sentences but didnt say who he was.

    I have special powers but I’m not clairvoyant. Yet.

  353. And it made me miss Fred.

  354. Yeah, no doubt Fred would have given him a double salute.

    And the funny thing is, I think its one of those who is working on his religion fervently.

    Kinda showed his bad side. But then thats not the first time, I’m sure.

  355. well, if it makes you feel any better, I can think of people in the FLDS with every one of those names you listed there, anonymous… haha.

    yehaaa6 said this on May 21, 2011 at 2:10 AM

    Thanks yehaaa6, it did make me feel better. WOW, an actual FLDS Heather, Tiffany, Brandon and Tyler. It sounds so musical!

  356. Well, I guess Harold Camping’s Day of Judgement didn’t happen as planned. I wonder if Harold will blame it on the fact that the “believers” weren’t righteous enough and they have to go back and try harder. Warren would and HAS done that before.

  357. Tibet is strangely deserted…

  358. Rulon pulled that too didn’t he Aono@7:44.

    Tibet has been fleeing since China took over. Check the neighboring mountains.

  359. Just watched netflix documentary special on China which included Tibet.

    I think God would be cool with those folks for the most part, besides those goofy maypoles and other assorted nonsense.

  360. Stamp, by “other assorted nonsense” were you referring to the Whirling Dervish?

  361. What?? You guys are still down there? The view from up here is great. Huh. Me and Harold are having drinks.

  362. How’s Uncle Rulon doin 3C?

  363. He’s in the next room, PT.

  364. Unfortunately Harold Camping has announced that this is just the beginning of the end, which will actually occur on October 21, 2011 – see it here :

    http://www.familyradio.com/facts/

  365. Next room 3C? Are you channeling Warren?

  366. Prophet Warren S. Jeffs dictations reveal that he believes that the countdown for the ‘EndTime’ has begun. The reason for the mock-up Temple in West Texas was to prepare for the real Temple to be built in Independence, MO. The reason for the ‘Lands of Reuge’ was that Short Creek is no longer the propesied ‘gathering place’ and the ‘flock shall be scattered'(more like ‘shattered’).
    So taking stock of where events has lead we see the Prophet is in jail and charged with two acts of aggravated assault, seven (7) Priesthoodlums have been given guilty verdicts, the BC Supreme Court Chief Justice is in deliberation on the polygamy reference case(presentation of the facts & evidence didn’t go very well), the RCMP has openned an investigation into two-dozen ‘Child Brides’ being sex trafficked into the US and the UEP Trust control and future is still firmly locked inside of layers of legal wrangling and seems headed to an escalating Federal Court trial(s). If this to me seems more like Armageddon than the Rapture but then I am just an innocent bystander to all these Scriptural events. Frankly, reading Warren’s ‘Warnings to the Nation(s)’ has simply confused all of these issues even further in my mind. I hope there is a plan to publish an ‘Idiots Guide to the FLDS Church’ so I can begin to fathom any of these ‘EndTime’ revelations.

  367. Custer County concerns in today’s Rapid City Journal news:

    http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/lifestyles/article_1d24dc7c-843b-11e0-a4a7-001cc4c03286.html

    http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/lifestyles/article_86aaa1dc-843a-11e0-8900-001cc4c03286.html

  368. You beat me to it ad hoc!!!

  369. Heh! PT, I guess you and I are on the same page, probably because we’re STILL DOWN HERE! mucking through daily life. I’m hoping we don’t lose all contact with TC, though, in her exalted and rapturous place. I’d miss her terribly!

  370. Me too, but now we can be posted on the heavenly goings on too.

  371. Ad Hoc and PT why would these two articles be speculating about the FLDS Church’s ability to pay property taxes and then mention the $1.2Million dollar Chapel/Community center and building improvements over $5.0Million? They ought to impound some of their equipment and see how fast the taxes in arrears gets paid up. I always have heard about how country folk don’t lock their doors, or leave their keys in the ignition and the counties so small that everyone knows reveryone elses business. Guess things have changed for the Custer County folks. The tower, fencing and secured gate speaks louder than any words can about how it would make anyone living under it feel.

  372. The most telling part of the article, for me, was the question of whether the tower was keeping people in or keeping people out. My guess is that it is for being able to watch over the entire area and keep the sheeple under surveillance.

  373. Withholding building permits is not going to be very motivating. They definitely need a bigger stick than that if they want to be paid their taxes.

  374. The YFZ Ranch incursion showed that the security surveillance cameras, motion detectors and tower security was aimed INSIDE at the residents and not so much outwardly toward intruders.

  375. A polygamist faces sentencing which could result in his being sent to prison for life. Warren Jeffs this is your future sentened to life, you like Mitchell will spend the rest of your life in the cellestial kingdom ker chang!

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/elizabeth-smart-speak-brian-david-mitchell-sentencing/story?id=13660271

    Warren Jeffs your turn to be on GMA is coming up, for you to will be sentenced!

  376. When Elissa Wall stood up to Allen Steed or Elizabeth awaits Brian David Mitchell’s sentencing does anyone see persecution or is it prosecution at work? One instance is completely outside of the FLDS Church world yet I percieve that Justice has been equally applied in both cases.

  377. “Sisters, do you wish to make yourselves happy? Then what is your duty? It is for you to bear children, in the name of the Lord, that are full of faith and the power of God,—to receive, conceive, bear, and bring forth in the name of Israel’s God that you may have the honour of being the mothers of great and good men—of kings, princes, and potentates that shall yet live on the earth and govern and control the nations. Do you look forward to that? or are you tormenting yourselves by thinking that your husbands do not love you? I would not care whether they loved a particle or net; but I would cry out, like one of old, in the joy of my heart, “I have got a man from the Lord!” “Hallelujah! I am a mother — I have borne an image of God!” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 9, p.37)

  378. “Emma took that revelation [about plural marriage], supposing she had all there was, went to the fireplace and put it in, and put the candle under it and burned it, and she thought that was the end of it, and she will be damned as sure as she is a living woman.”

    (Brigham Young, Aug 9, 1874, Journal of Discourses 17: pg 159.)

  379. Brigham Young on Jews –

    “I would rather undertake to convert five thousand Lamanites [native Americans], than to convert one of those poor miserable creatures [Jews] whose fathers killed the savior… Yes, I would rather undertake to convert the devil himself, if it were possible… I would say, leave them, and come home, the Lord does not require you to stay there, for they must suffer and be damned… [L]eave them to live and die in their sins and ignorance… [T]hey take pleasure in their wickedness…” (Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 2, p. 143, 1854)

  380. “Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon?…when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the ignorant of their fellows. So it is in regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain.” (Brigham Young,Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 271)

  381. Gasp! Suffering glazed-over eyes and overworked gag reflex.

  382. To Brigham Young’s credit I dont think they ever crowned him Prophet.

  383. The other shoe dropping right now is Obama saying that Israel ought to drop down to the 1967 border. That makes as much sense to me as life on the moon or sun… And it was said this week.

    And said by a guy with access to all the experts.

  384. When Elissa Wall stood up to Allen Steed or Elizabeth awaits Brian David Mitchell’s sentencing does anyone see persecution or is it prosecution at work? One instance is completely outside of the FLDS Church world yet I percieve that Justice has been equally applied in both cases.

    CAJim said this on May 22, 2011 at 6:14 PM

    CAJim IMO the answer to your question IMO it’s proper and correct prosecution, but from the Warranite viewpoint it’s persecution. Unfortunately the Warranites can’t see the forest (the truth) because they are staring at the one tree of falsehoods. And I agree with that justice will be served equally to both Mitchell & Jeffs.

  385. Stamp, Brigham Young served as LDS prophet for many years.

    From LDS website:

    http://lds.org/churchhistory/presidents/controllers/potcController.jsp?leader=2&topic=facts

  386. Here’s an article from a SLC newspaper where a legal expert stated he expects Mitchell to receive a heavy sentence. IMO a prophecy of what Warren Jeffs will also receive.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705373148/Elizabeth-Smart-to-confront-her-kidnapper-for-first-time-since-her-rescue.html?pg=1

  387. I am not positive about this point 100% but isn’t every President of the LDS Church considered to be a Prophet. The Doctrines & Covenants were in many instances pulpit speeches given by standing Presidents, including Briham Young.

  388. A Texan

    That site just calls him the President.

    “He died August 29, 1877 in Salt Lake City after nearly 30 years as Church President.”

    I dont know how much the D and C stand as doctrine, but those proclamations by BY make my teeth itch.

    Especially what he said about Emma. But by then, Emma had said goodbye and good riddance and BY had left the country.

    Actually, this was said about Emma almost 30 years after they parted. Evidently she had given him some lasting heartburn.

    ————————————–

    CaJim

    Generally I would say yes, I think BY was the exception. This may have been due to the near instant arm wrestle over leadership that developed upon Joe’s untimely demise and the subsequent breakup of the Church over Polygamy. Those who dropped polygamy stayed safely in the states – BY led the rest into what was then Mexican territory.

  389. I think there are very good reasons for Obama to have said that, and relieved that he did so, but it’s really off topic for this blog.

  390. HA HA

    Osama’s plygistan women were “Desperate Housewives”

    ————–

    “Although the compound where bin Laden hid for five years was large, the three wives were all cooped up in the same house.

    The older two lived on the second floor and the youngest one on the top. Their husband alternated between them. Pakistani officials who have been debriefing the women portray life in the compound as an Islamic version of Desperate Housewives.

    “It’s a well-known fact that when you have two older wives and then this young one comes along half their age, they don’t like it,” said one.

    The wives even dispute who tried to protect their husband in the raid. The youngest was reported to have attempted to save him, sustaining a bullet wound to her calf. But the older wives say they were the ones who rushed to shield him.”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/older-bin-laden-widows-think-younger-wife-tipped-off-us/story-e6frg6so-1226060447422

  391. Link to the LDS version of the D&C.

    http://lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament?lang=eng

    Section 135 was written by John Taylor. Section 136 was written by Brighan Young. Section 138 was written by Joseph F Snith in 1918. The remainder of the sections were done by Joseph Smith, Jr.
    The LDS version has two official declarations, one by Wilford Woodruff on polygamy and one by Spencer Kimball on all worthy male members being able to have the priesthood.

  392. The Quorom of Twelve declared Brigham Young to be the new LDS Church’s ‘Prophet, Seer and Revelator’, so he most definitely was looked upon as a Prophet by the LDS Church. I believe he said that sermons he spoke to the assembled believers was scriptural after he had spoken it, including D & C recording his teaching.

  393. Yes, BY was the prophet of the church for many years, however there is only 1 section of the D&C (136) that he wrote.

  394. Bring ‘Em Young wasn’t much of a prophet if he thought that the sun and the moon were occupied.

  395. “It’s a well-known fact that when you have two older wives and then this young one comes along half their age, they don’t like it,” said one.

    Correct, this has been documented in the medical literature.

  396. Looks like Harold Camping didn’t show up for work yesterday.

    Minister disappears after doomsday doesn’t materialize

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/world/51863723-68/camping-minister-doomsday-prediction.html.csp

  397. Does anyone know what this case is about?

    FIFTH DISTRICT COURT-ST GEORGE
    JOHN J WALTON May 24, 2011
    Courtroom 3C Tuesday
    09:00 AM

    MOTION TO DISMISS 100503660 Property Rights
    FISCHER, KELLY ATTY: OKAZAKI, KENNETH A
    PARKER, RODNEY R
    ACUITY BUILDING CORPORATION CLARK, STEPHEN C
    JESSOP, WAYNE
    VS.
    HOLM HOLDINGS LLC ATTY: SANDERS, ROGER J
    RUESCH, BENJAMIN S
    REEVE, NATHAN C
    ——————————————————————————

  398. He is supposed to make an announcement today on his radio station on this very issue. You can listen live on http://www.familyradio.org to his explanation.
    I heard that he took in a significant amount of donations related to his Doomsday Proclamation, and I think he should be compelled to return those donations STAT.

  399. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13264301

    This is about gender selective abortions in India.

  400. Anon

    That sounds like another UEP argument?

  401. Sorry, I provided an incorrect link to Family Radio / Harold Camping of the May 21 Doomsday Proclamation – the link is actually as follows :

    http://www.familyradio.com/index2.html

  402. I kind of feel silly arguing this point on Brigham Young, but neither the LDS website link nor Wikipedia (ha ha I know) refer to him as Prophet.

    ————————– WIKI —-

    “Initial actions as church president

    After three years of leading the church as the President of the Quorum of the Twelve, in 1847 Young reorganized a new First Presidency and was declared president of the church on December 27, 1847.

    Repeated conflict led Young to relocate his group of Latter-day Saints to a territory in what is now Utah, then part of Mexico.

    Young organized the journey that would take the faithful to Winter Quarters, Nebraska, in 1846 , then to the Salt Lake Valley.

    Young arrived in the Salt Lake Valley on July 24, 1847, a date now recognized as Pioneer Day in Utah.”

    ——————

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigham_Young

  403. Harold should take a day off and come back with a good story.

    Or maybe if he took three days off… yeah that’s the ticket…

  404. Rico, Google ‘Adam-God’ Theory and a Mormon Rearch Ministry article by McKeever should come up. First paragraph calls BY the President and second paragraph identifies him as the prophet. I believe that the account of Brigham reciving the ‘Mantle’ was when he was still in Nauvoo in the presence of the Quorom of Twelve Apostles. Also, on the way to the Great Salt Lake Young recounted a evening when he received a vision and realized he was the prophet.

  405. CaJim

    Found this artcle using that search

    Ctrl – F to find all references of Prophet

    It seems like there is some arm wrestling going on as to whether he spoke as Prophet or not.

    I have to admit, it makes my toes curl reading this stuff..

    http://mrm.org/adam-god

  406. Harold Camping is being interviewed by the press right now on Family Radio, and the new date of Apocalypse is October 21, 2011.
    Here is the link – Click on the icon on the top right

    http://www.familyradio.com/index2.html

  407. Dang that guy makes my teeth itch too! ARRGGHHH

    I could only listen to a half minute of him. How many times does he have to cry wolf before people ignore him!?

    I wish he would go to Pakistan and talk to those folks – he might get a following…

  408. Found this while looking at the news – I think it fits in well with the various so-called “Church Leaders” rolling about nowadays.

    Dr Drew on Narcissistic Personality Disorder

    http://mental.healthguru.com/video/what-is-narcissistic-personality-disorder?Outbrain&landing=70&Outbrain

  409. Harold Camping refused to apologize and refused to refund the donations given to advertise his warning about Doomsday in his press conference this evening.

  410. This reference and quote is from the encyclopedia of Mormonism which I linked to from the LDS Church site. From my experience in the church there is no doubt that the LDS consider Brigham Young to have been a prophet

    http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Prophet

    “An unbroken series of prophets have led the Church since the death of Joseph Smith in 1844: Brigham Young (1844-1877); John Taylor (1877-1887); Wilford Woodruff (1887-1898); Lorenzo Snow (1898-1901); Joseph F. Smith (1901-1918); Heber J. Grant (1918-1945); George Albert Smith (1945-1951); David O. McKay (1951-1970); Joseph Fielding Smith (1970-1972); Harold B. Lee (1972-1973); Spencer W. Kimball (1973-1985); and Ezra Taft Benson (1985-).”

  411. So 1945 was basically the first year that the LDS church had a non-polygamous prophet. That’s not really all that long ago if you think about it; 66 years. Heber J Grant was the last one. He had 3 wives.

  412. One of Heber J Grant’s wives died in 1893, a second one died in 1908. The third wife outlived Heber J grant. She died in 1952.

  413. Osama’s two senior wives are blaming the third wife for giving his location away to the American military – a “harem scuffle”

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/talk-of-who-betrayed-osama-bin-laden-sparks-a-harem-scuffle/story-e6frg6so-1226060643865

  414. I am always amazed at how polygamist wives turn on each other rather than on the man or the institution that brought them together. The problem is not that young wife. It’s that the man is allowed to pursue his own happiness and you are not.

  415. Please continue on General Discussion #56

    Thanks – Admin

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