Open Discussion #40


Continued from Open Discussion #39

UPDATE on the Sgt. Prickett/Hugh McBryde/Scotty Ledbetter/Bill Medvecky wranglings:

I have noticed that a computer from UNT has spent a good deal of time on this site lately.   Presumably this is in connection with the so-called investigation (read, witch hunt) regarding Hugh McBryde’s harassment of Sgt. Prickett and various UNTD and UNT PD employees.   Reportedly Sgt. Prickett has been placed on paid administrative leave.   Hugh McBryde reports that this is the result of his accusations of “extortion” and “stalking” against Sgt. Prickett.  Really?  If I were a Texan I would be seriously concerned about State resources being used for an “investigation” of such a ludicrous complaint by an obviously agenda-driven, disturbed individual as Hugh McBryde.  I cannot fathom that any right-thinking person would take such accusations and maniacal ravings seriously enough to take that kind of action against a police sergeant.  I mean, let’s consider the credibility of Hugh McBryde compared to Sgt. Prickett.    How many protective orders and/or trespass warnings have been issued against Hugh for exactly this behavior in the past?   Well, reportedly his first wife had a restraining order or protective order against him because of domestic violence (Hugh posted about this recently on his blog and confirmed it himself).    Hugh’s own CHURCH in Vermont warned him not to set foot on Church property — remember, he made comments that the church took as threatening potential violence.  See the letter below from the Elders:

Hugh blogged recently also that he had been threatened with charges of stalking or harassment because of his repeated maniacal phone calls to UNT staff at their homes.  Hugh has been banned from more internet sites than most of us have ever been members of, collectively.    Remember the stalking of Marty Braemer?   What about Maggie Santos — a police officer with the Colorado Springs Police Department?   Hugh got a wild hair that Officer Santos was part of some big FLDS related conspiracy, and just as he is doing to Sgt Prickett, Hugh harassed the CSPD until they opened an IA on Santos.   Fortunately for Santos, her supervisors appeared to have treated Hugh’s lunatic reports and conspiracy theories with the regard that they deserved and promptly cleared Officer Santos without taking any action against her.   Hugh was an employee at a used car dealership but got fired apparently — this appears to have been the result of Hugh stalking the wrong “Txbluesman” who didn’t take it well and called Hugh’s wife and presumably Hugh’s employer, as Hugh was fired right after that erroneous outing of TxBluesman.   He is now a truck driver, having just completed a three week training course.    How do I know this?   Hugh confirmed it on his blog in  a rather paranoid rant about someone accessing his drivers license record (wrong again, Hugh, but thanks for the confirmation).

Sgt Prickett, from information available on the web, is a police sergeant with the University of North Texas Police Department.   Prickett has been with the same police department for 20 years — he has obviously done something right to remain employed with the same department for such a length of time and risen to the rank of Sergeant.   He is the ranking supervisor and coordinator of all the police officers and security at  the Dallas campus of the university.   He is a Master Peace Officer and Certified Police Instructor, and he is a  retired Paratrooper and Air Force Captain.

Sgt. Prickett’s “truthfulness” has actually been the subject of a Texas appellate court case.   When his credibility or truthfulness was raised as an issue by the appealing drunk driver, the Court found Prickett to be credible and truthful stating:

We hold that the videotape does not raise a fact issue as to the legality of the stop. Officer Prickett testified that appellant committed a traffic violation when he first saw her driving: she failed to signal within 100 feet of changing lanes. See TEX. TRANSP. CODE ANN. § 545.104(b) (Vernon 1999); Tyler v. State, 161 S.W.3d 745, 748 (Tex.App.-Fort Worth 2005, no pet.) (“When a traffic violation is committed in an officer’s presence, the officer has probable cause to lawfully stop and arrest or detain the violator.”). Appellant’s first turn as described by Officer Prickett is not shown on the videotape, and there is no evidence contradicting Officer Prickett’s testimony. Furthermore, the remainder of the stop as shown on the videotape is consistent with Officer Prickett’s testimony. Although it is arguable whether the last two turns appellant made could be interpreted as being “abrupt,” the first turn shown on the videotape does appear to be “abrupt” in that the time between appellant’s signaling and turning is very short. In addition, the videotape confirms Officer Prickett’s testimony that appellant “straddled” the white dividing line when she turned southbound onto Welch. See James v. State, 102 S.W.3d 162, 172 (Tex.App.-Fort Worth 2003, pet. ref’d) (“Erratic … driving may furnish a sufficient basis for a reasonable suspicion that [a] driver is intoxicated even absent evidence of violation of a specific traffic law.”); cf. Tyler, 161 S.W.3d at 749 (holding that “appellant’s act of moving out of his lane of traffic, ‘straddling’ the white line separating the traveling lane from the shoulder, and ‘erratically’ re-entering his lane of traffic at an angle was unsafe and therefore a violation of section 545.060(a).”). The videotape does not raise a fact issue as to whether Officer Prickett had probable cause to stop appellant. Thus, we hold that the trial court did not err by denying appellant an article 38.23 instruction. See Estrada v. State, 30 S.W.3d 599, 605 (Tex.App.-Austin 2000, pet. ref’d). We overrule appellant’s first point.

Below is a copy of the written opinion — see for yourself:

Defendants Medvecky, Ledbetter and McBryde have been posting about a civil lawsuit that was filed against Sgt. Prickett for “use of excessive force.”    Well, yes, there was a lawsuit in federal court, but it was apparently a bogus attempt to get a settlement from the State of Texas because the jury very clearly exonerated Prickett finding no excessive force was used, and they stuck the plaintiff with the legal costs.  See the jury form and final judgment below:

Who wins the credibility contest:  Sgt. Prickett or Hugh McBryde?  There’s really no question.   Hopefully, Sgt. Prickett will be back to his regular duties very soon.

Good luck Sgt. Prickett — we’re behind you all the way.

UPDATE:   Bill Medvecky’s site has been suspended, presumably as a result of the restraining order that Sgt. Prickett obtained from a court in Dallas in connection with his defamation suit against Medvecky, McBryde, and Ledbetter.   Way to go Prickett!


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~ by FLDS TEXAS on October 7, 2010.

458 Responses to “Open Discussion #40”

  1. Maybe the whole point of appealing to the Supreme Court is to stall the sale or any other action for so long that it sinks the trust.

    Does the trust have to stay in limbo while waiting for the appeal? Can the fiduciary carry on ordinary and necessary business in the meantime?

  2. Hugh’s blog is now invitational only. LOL.

  3. Hugh prob went private cuz people have been using his OWN WORDS to prove he is a lunatic!! I wish Sgt Prickert the best and a speedy return to duty!! And maybe a nice lawsuit for harrassment against Hugh and his buddies…….

  4. It would be interesting to see who ‘subscribes’ to his blah. Pretty much, it looks like he just rants to himself [on the few times I’ve peeked over there].

  5. McBryde’s blog is back up with a post about getting a legal question answered.

  6. I think there needs to be federal clarification about stalking and bullying on line ….

    Along with some truly workable deterrents…..

  7. Bill’s site is suspended

  8. I thought Hugh knew it all…And even if he got good advise [as RiH and others can probably attest too] he rarely follows it….

  9. Thanks for the great post! That was a great read!

  10. FLSD TEXAS: Bill’s site is suspended

    I’m sure the conspiracy theories will skyrocket now. “It’s all a plot by [insert name here] to silence him and his followers!!!

  11. Poor Cupcake, she doesn’t have anywhere to post her crap.

  12. Dang, Raymond got another extension to file his appellate brief. It’s now due 12/17/10. Can you say stall tactics?

  13. UPDATE: Bill Medvecky’s site has been suspended, presumably as a result of the restraining order that Sgt. Prickett obtained from a court in Dallas in connection with his defamation suit against Medvecky, McBryde, and Ledbetter.

    ————————–

    Awesome!

  14. So wild Bill’s blog account has been suspended. I wonder if it was the FBI or Sgt. Prickett’s lawsuit.
    I can’t wait to find out.

  15. Don’t you guys know anything.

    See Sgt. Prickett used his special red phone to call Greg Abbott. Who placed a call to Ranger Hanna, who placed a call to Maggie Santos, who then placed a call to the FBI, who then called the NSA, who then called the Men in Black who took down Bill’s website.

    Geez, are you guys morons or what?

  16. Maybe he got slapped for stealing online pictures of some innocent bystander’s children and posting them on his abusive blog.

  17. Stalked,
    I believe your theory. That is exactly what happened.

  18. Thanks for clearing that up Stalked.

  19. Medvecky has this posted on his Facebook page:

    “I became an advocate and friend of the Mormons after the attack on their homes in Texas on April 3, 2008 when the government kidnapped 465 children and kept them in captivity for 8 weeks until we could get them free.”

  20. Because, of course, he was deeply involved financially and otherwise in getting the children returned to their parents(?).

  21. Come on 4now, you know good and well that Mad Bill personally went from place to place and single handedly brought each child back to his or her parents or in some cases, caregiver deemed by Warren.

  22. And while saving these children, didn’t he stop and post from an Eldorado cafe that wasn’t in business any more LOL

  23. No, no mouse, it was a donut shop in San Angelo.

  24. I do hope that Bill doesn’t just migrate somewhere and pick up shop again and more than that I hope that Sgt. Prickett can find enough assets to win to retire happily. And I hope that UNT figures out that when one is stalked it isn’t the stalkees fault…. kink of like don’t blame rape on the victim

  25. Dang, Raymond got another extension to file his appellate brief. It’s now due 12/17/10. Can you say stall tactics?
    ===========================================
    /shrug since he’s locked up behind bars stall tactics actually benefits the folks who thinks he belongs there. Yep, Bill site is down. No conspiracy theory here. I think folks reported him for posting pictures borderline inappropriate.

  26. I don’t know anything about him or the things he’s alleged to have done, other than what I read on this site, that he’s filed a defamation suit, which is what people do when false claims are made against them.

    So I guess it will come out in court.

  27. anonimo

    Facts? Any? At least this site shows its facts.

  28. Any thing is possible, I guess. I’ve been wrong before and I do acknowledge when I’m wrong. But I’ll have to have serious proof to believe that someone I’ve been reading and talking to for two years could be so fundamentally different than what I’ve seen.

    But let’s break down these accusations a bit.

    There are conspiracy theories that combine the contribution to content of Coram non Judice, this site, fldslegal and perhaps more. In fact, I’m pretty sure that the line between those sites has been pretty much unbreached before this crisis exploded. There has not been any formal co-ordination of theses sites. We might suggest to Ron or TBM to write an article on some issue, but that was the end of it. These sites were allies, but not partners. WYSIWYG. So all assumptions based on that idea are untrue.

    I’ve read the accusing letter from Medvecky on Mr Scotty’s site. Unless there is a secret photo gallery of which I am not aware, there was never any child pornography on Coram Non Judice. I am also sure that not one on any of these sites have violated HIPAA regulations. I’m pretty sure that the campus security for UNT would not be involved in the trail of evidence nor have keys to the “evidence room” for the FLDS trails in Texas. Just cause you are a cop in that state does not mean you’d have your hands on every piece of evidence anywhere in the state. That’s absurd. So, what’s left? He objected to having Hugh harass him and post pictures of him and his family. Not exactly monster material.

    And if you are not actually Hugh McBryde, anonimo, you are a friend of his.

  29. anonimo — yeah, I’m confident. It’s obvious on the face of Bill’s and Hugh’s accusations that they are complete nonsense. Whether he’s squeaky clean or not, who knows, but he hasn’t done the things that Bill and Hugh have claimed. Distributing child pornography? Disclosing protected HIPAA info on state computers? Assaulting a student? Extortion? And it just gets whackier from there. For real, read what Bill and Hugh have been saying about him and tell me how you could possibly even wonder if those things are true.

    Most of Hugh’s accusations are based on his assumption that Sgt Prickett is Txbluesman and is a moderator or owner of this site and has made posts here and has responsibility for what’s posted here. I can flat out tell you as an administrator with full control of the site, anything based on that assumption is completely false. Neither Sgt Prickett, nor TxBluesman have administrative control, administrative access or any kind of editorial influence over the posts on this site.

  30. Yep, Sick Bill appears to have torched off a fire since you mention that.

  31. “I’m not Hugh. I’m nobody important, either. I’m just someone who sees smoke and wants to know if there’s fire.”

    Well, let’s see:

    One of the main players in the production of this “smoke” is a man who has been banned from more websites than I’ve ever visited and who has had numerous restraining orders placed on him, including one from his church.

    Crediblity — zero.

    Another one has been caught manufacturing lie after lie and yet continues with them without a qualm — as if he is above telling the truth somehow.

    Credibility — zero

    Don’t know anything about the other players in this except for my online acquaintance with Blues.

    Blues has shown himself to be strongly opinionated in favor of law, order and justice, although he’s been known to be a bit harsh in his presentation of that opinion. I’ve never caught him in a lie. His online “predictions” of various court cases have had a 60 to 75% accuracy rating (I’m not exactly sure of the numbers there) which make him fairly reliable.

    Credibility – a great deal higher than zero.

    In this case, anonimo, I’m more than willing to assume that this “smoke” is simply dry ice and water — an illusion caused by evil men who have proven their lack of morals and with zero credibility.

    Should actual evidence appear to the contrary I’ll reasses my opinion.

    Oh, and just for fun — I think your one of the sleazeballs involved with this and you’re lower than slime. Go troll at a KKK site — they might like your sort.

  32. “And, while I’m thinking of it, let me ask this: why does everything have to boil down to an us-vs-them paradigm? You can oppose polygamy and pedophilia and still suspect that Sgt. Prickett may have abused his position.”

    Why should I? His accusers have proven their lack of ethics and credibility. I see no reason to take their word for anything. They are liars and abusers — at least the two I know of are.

  33. anonimo – you’re about to get banned. Just a heads’ up.

    Let me make it plain for you.

    Bill and Hugh are assuming Sgt Prickett is Txbluesman. I haven’t even seen a clear explanation why they think that, and I’ve seen Hugh get this one wrong too many times to have any reason to believe he’s right this time.

    Be that as it may — for the sake of argument, let’s say Sgt Prickett is THE TxBluesman. Your us-vs-them paradigm is exactly why Bill and Hugh have gone after him. just because he doesn’t support polygamy and pedophilia by calling it religious freedom, Bill and Hugh are assuming that he must have committed some kind of abuse of power and any number of atrocious felonies.

    There is not one iota of anything indicating that Sgt Prickett abused his position. None. It is the hateful and poisonous delusions of internet bullies who hate cops and prosecutors because they have had their own run-ins with authority. Right thinking people can clearly distinguish between Bill’s, Hugh’s and Scott’s fantasies as compared to reality. If you can’t then the internet is probably not a good place for you to be spending your time.

    What’s fascinating about all of this is that one of Bill/Hugh’s running themes is innocent until proven guilty, no probable cause, and along those lines as far as the raid on the Ranch and the FLDS charges and CPS actions. Yet, here they are trying to dismantle a police officer’s life based on nothing more than guesses and assumptions, and I can guarantee you most if not all of them are wrong.

  34. http://www.documentarychannel.com/movie.php?currID=2630&t=Damned%20to%20Heaven

  35. Let me know when the cartoons are over and the kiddies are tucked away in their beds for the night.

  36. At last, the Three Stooges picked on the wrong group of people !
    This is too sweet !

  37. I’ve been in martial arts for over 25 years. I have been student along side of policemen, I’ve been taught by policemen, I’ve design and presented workshops on women’s self defense with policemen. I’ve had beer and pizza with policemen. And although they are alas human and flawed, on a percentage basis there are a lot more moral and ethical policemen than the general population. For one thing, they make very little money, risk their lives, work weird hours and most of them do it because they care what happens to the rest of us.

  38. Al

    ” I think folks reported him for posting pictures borderline inappropriate.”

    If they were in a box of pictures in grammas closet maybe. On the front page of that dirty site run by an ex-con?

    Borderline, REALLY???

    I feel sorry for those kids. Bill had lots of reasons to get shut down, take your pick.

    Just a note, Brooke is down right now too but I dont think for any particular reason. Just funny timing. Prairie doggin?

    Guess the FLDS will have to go back to “Lies will Fail” for their propoganda output, or get Willie the SL-HUT back out there.

  39. BTW kudos to Rebeckahs post! Well said, thats the spirit!

  40. About Comments On This Site (flds.ws)

    by Ann Marie

    I just wanted to make it abundantly clear the comments policy on this site, so that there are no questions in this regard. Read our Mission Statement.

    This site has been created to Promote Due Process, Religious Liberty, Human Rights, Constitutional Rights, and Freedom for the FLDS Community and All Of Us! This site will only publish positive things about the FLDS. Do not doubt this site is pro-Constitution. Stories and Articles to that end will be published here, as well as Analysis, Commentary, and Editorials. Comments on this site will be tightly controlled, and those that wish to smear or speak negatively will be summarily dismissed. If you’d like to help support the FLDS in their quest to regain their children you are more than welcome to contact us here .

    If you have a problem with this policy, I would suggest that you not participate in this forum.

    Thank You!
    May 5, 2008

    ANNA MARIE why did you let a crazy sick man high jack your blog?

  41. “I became an advocate and friend of the Mormons after the attack on their homes in Texas on April 3, 2008 when the government kidnapped 465 children and kept them in captivity for 8 weeks until we could get them free.”

    I guess that means all his buds at the raunch, who should be soooo greatful for his personal assistance in getting all those kids back, will be rallying around him in support. Maybe Brooke will even write about it. It’s right up her alley….FLDS Supporter Silenced!! Maybe even a quote or two from Willie.

  42. Anon#8:31, I think the paid administrative leave is while they are investigating. That way they can’t be accused of not taking it seriously.

  43. Sock Puppet, I think the kids singing at the beginning of the Damned to Heaven are Warren Jeffs’ daughters. I heard the same song on the clips from Sons of Perdition.

  44. Anon#8:31, I think the paid administrative leave is while they are investigating. That way they can’t be accused of not taking it seriously.

    We used to call it ‘days on the beach’ at my department. We had a guy that filed over 200 complaints on a set of 3 officers over a 1 or 2 yr period. NONE were found to be true. At one point a judge slapped him with a retraining order that said he could ONLY call the police if he were dying, or on fire, or he could be arrested. One officer sued him for harrassment. His complaints kept her from getting a promotion…even tho they weren’t true…and she won a nice settlement.

  45. Bill Medvecky is reporting this on twitter :

    The government has shut down flds.ws over a free speech dispute. It will be back up Internationally shortly.

  46. Internationally? Is he gonna get an overseas ISP?

  47. So is he going to move “internationally” too? He can go to Mexico like a lot of his fundie friends have. Thats about his speed!

  48. **chuckle**

  49. pop the gopher

  50. The website is flds.ws

    If you look up the .ws country domain, it originated in Samoa. Samoa sold a lot of them “internationally,” so maybe thats what is meant by “internationally” ??

    See: http://ezinearticles.com/?What-Is-A-WS-Domain-Extension?&id=905523

  51. Brooke’s blog goes down a lot. I have no doubt that the timing on this one is coincidental. I think it has to do with the Trib’s not-very-effective tech department (although I can’t know for sure).

    And thanks, Stamp.

    I don’t know if Sgt. Prickett is Blues but I like Blues a lot. He’s worth a dozen of those lying slimeballs. And everytime I think of them defending the FLDS I’m irresistably reminded of the proverb “Birds of a feather flock together”.

    They certainly tarnish the FLDS by association.

  52. Aw shucks I forgot about that I’m supposedly a friend to Samoan royalty. I may even still understand a little of the language. No, I am not joking.

  53. I found this on a totally unrelated site [it was from a book review], but it fits well here…

    The University of Michigan recently did a study in which they found that people with strongly held beliefs would not change them when confronted with the facts. In fact, they just became even more entrenched.

  54. Cognitive dissonance

  55. mc1199, I strongly believe the results of that study.

    Yes… that certainly describes a lot of folks I know. I’ve given up on presenting the “facts.” They can always explain “facts” away… far, far away.

  56. Another one has been caught manufacturing lie after lie and yet continues with them without a qualm — as if he is above telling the truth somehow.

    ———————–

    Pathological lying and lack of remorse or shame when caught lying are both traits of a sociopath.

  57. Considering this person posted my email address, in direct violation of the stated policy of his board, with nary an apology or acknowledgement of wrongdoing — I’m willing to believe he’s a sociopath. And I believed that long before this poor Sgt. Prickett became a victim.

    I think it is very telling that the people who claim to be for civil rights, Constitutional protections and personal privacy are willing to violate all three at the drop of a hat. I also think that their association with the FLDS, no matter how tenuous it is, is indicative of the FLDS general moral standards as well.

  58. One blog down… More to go…

  59. Great post Rebechah: The vile languange as well as the racist and sexist terms were also a big turn off. Would love to see him back in the big house.

  60. I don’t need to see anybody in jail over this. I just want the crazy fighting in real life to stop and the extreme personal attacks on line. I hope the law suit is a wake up call for all involved.

  61. I’m with anon4now in not wanting anyone to go to jail.

    However, I’d ask people to consider this:

    Why would you call someone at home about a matter involving their work? Especially when you are some anonymous person they’ve never heard from before?

    Criminal law is all about your intent. Is your intent to intimidate, harass, or annoy?

    Hopefully people will learn and stop borderline behavior. However, the very purpose of criminal laws are to MAKE people stop.

  62. It would be good if people learned from these situations and modified their behavior to be compliant with not only the laws, but also of the normal civility standards. I am not optimistic that those who are hell bent on a certain course will learn their lesson. Only time will tell.

  63. Speaking of the Kingstons:

    Rolly: Legislative candidates have ties to Kingston polygamists

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50424257-76/kingston-district-republican-candidates.html.csp

  64. de Luna: It would be good if people learned from these situations and modified their behavior to be compliant with not only the laws, but also of the normal civility standards. I am not optimistic that those who are hell bent on a certain course will learn their lesson. Only time will tell.

    ————————-

    I am not optimistic either. Sociopathy is not a treatable condition.

    And I am sorry for the FLDS that they have this undeserved smear on their reputation. I am sure many of them would be horrified by the vile language and tactics used to supposedly support their cause.

  65. Many? Who knows. Why do you think that?

  66. The Kingston clan is frightening – given their history of promoting coercive, incestuous marriages.
    The idea that some of them might enter the legislature is truly worrisome.
    Utah seems to be a land way out of control. Glad I live nowhere near it.

  67. I mean really, FLDS men women and children have access the same as anyone else. I don’t normally look at anything at that vicious ugly place unless I choose to see something in context. It’s too nasty. Filth. Dirty.

  68. http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2005/UnderstandingPolygamy_July-05.html

    Genetic Defects described in the Kingston polygamy group due to inbreeding :
    Various congenital and genital defects, dwarfism, fused limbs, fingernails lacking, mental illness and mental retardation, spina bifida, and microcephalous are some of the diseases and mutations seen in the Kingston group.

  69. The Kingston Clan believes that they are the direct descendants of Jesus Christ, and inbreeding is necessary to keep their bloodlines pure.

  70. I am not optimistic either. Sociopathy is not a treatable condition.

    And I am sorry for the FLDS that they have this undeserved smear on their reputation. I am sure many of them would be horrified by the vile language and tactics used to supposedly support their cause.

    Anon E Mouse said this on October 8, 2010 at 9:57 AM

    Anon E Mouse no disrespect but the elite FLDS leaders have condone Medvecky’s actions.

    The elite FLDS apple core is rotten. The FLDS elite know that underage marriages have happen, and continue. Their women have lied on national television, plus certain FLDS women have been passed around like trading cards, not caring about the effect on their children well being.

    The elite FLDS moral compass is gone, even if it ever existed.

    Mr. Medvecky also, he lacks moral character.

  71. are underage marriages still occurring ?
    any inside information or data regarding that ?

  72. I think there’s a difference between welfare fraud and deliberately arranging your life so that you qualify for welfare. I don’t know what the law is in Utah and Arizona, but the plural wives who are not legally married and who do not live with their husbands might legally qualify for assistance. I would think that either way, taxpayers in general do not appreciate paying for a life style that requires or promotes large families without consideration for their support. It is a fact that the amount of welfare, medicaid and other assistance in the Creek is very high.

  73. 44% of people in Colorado City / Hildale receive Medicaid and / or Foodstamps. That’s a lot.

  74. Yeah, it is. The average right now for all of USA is about 1/8th of the population on food stamps. And that’s an all time high which is being blamed on very high unemployment. If I remember junior high math, that’s 12%. So 4 times the national record breaking level in the Creek.

    I’m sure those numbers are partly that high because so much of the population consists of children.

  75. Willie is in bed with mad bill and since the hierarchy of the FLDS seem to be ok with Willie being in charge, by default that makes them ok with mad bill’s tactics.

    Wonder what Annette thinks about him using her daughter as his reasoning for some of the stuff he does.

  76. how is Annette’s daughter used as his reasoning for some of the stuff he does ? (pardon my ignorance)

  77. Bile’s site is back up. At least he removed the photos of the naked children.

  78. BoB, no idea. How does one fathom the thinking of sociopaths?

  79. First thing to do when you are sued –
    Remain silent
    Second thing to do when you are sued –
    Get a lawyer
    Third thing to do when you are sued –
    Remain silent unless you are told to do otherwise by your attorney.

  80. But, hey. Posting the same insults that you were asked to remove seems like the mistake of choice for some!

  81. Nobody said he was smart. Criminal, sociopath.

  82. Finished the requested essay (catwhisperer, HHG, and S.) – a parody of Clair Zulkey’s wonderful writing referenced way back in Discussion #37.

    It’s hastily written and way too long to post here, so I spent my morning creating a WordPress website to post it. Enjoy… and critique it all you want. It’s fictional but “close to the bone,” as they say.

    http://myeasttexas.wordpress.com/

  83. Very nice new avatar, and beautiful new blog.
    I will attempt to get you to blog regularly now… just a little pressure there…

  84. Oh nooooo….. 😥

  85. E,
    thank you so much -I very much enjoyed it – I have left you a question

  86. Hugh Bill and Scotty are each others Attorney

    Its a virtual Lawless Firm.

  87. E.Texas, that was a good read. I’m sorry you were married to such a pig who molested your children. May he rest in Hell.

  88. Didn’t look hastily written for me…. Very well done !

  89. Great job E, I loved reading it.

  90. Oprah’s travel budget just took a pretty big hit — TMZ has learned several members of the 21-member polygamist family from “Sister Wives” just rolled over to Chicago to tape a spot for O’s TV show.
    ——

    OK, who didn’t see THIS coming! I wonder if she’ll be as ‘tough’ on them as she was on the YFZ peeps. Then again, her show is alll about ‘entertainment’ and not really news.

    And, know for her give aways, I loved this statement:
    YOU get a wife! YOU get a wife! EVERYBODY gets a WIFE!

  91. a WIFE and a jackolantern for each

  92. Nice work, E Texas. Thank you.

  93. Maybe East Texas will continue her literary blog as a monthly features with an essay or poem written by an ex – polygamist every month… who knows ? I hope that I can convince her…

  94. This is a busy time of year for me. Temps are finally past sizzling, so this is when I can get a lot done outdoors. When it gets too cold and I just want to stay snug and warm, I’m more likely to wax eloquent. (ha!)

    But hey, I’m totally open to volunteer offerings. I’d love to showcase them.

    And thanks everyone for the kudos. 🙂

  95. Thank YOU ET, for your gift.

  96. Thank you for writing your blog, E.Texas.

  97. I really enjoyed your story, E.Texas. Please do continue to share your thoughts as time allows. 🙂

  98. I have been thinking about this all day after reading E.Texas’ essay. I don’t understand why polygamous men molest their children.

    They usually have plural wives (pun intended) so there should be a wife they could boink if the need arises (pun intended). So, why sexually molest their own children? Honestly, I just don’t get it.

  99. One develops a taste for innocence and helplessness. It’s about POWER.

  100. I agree with 4now, it’s about power, not about sex.

  101. Dutson hearing has been moved to October 12 at 9:00 for a change of venue hearing. The District Clerk had to call all the people summoned to jury duty and tell them they wouldn’t be needed. That just wasted money for Schleicher County.

  102. @ Anonymous at 6:33 PM

    Anon4now is right about power. But (with the disclaimer that I’m certainly no expert) I also think (theorize?) about some factors at play here.

    1. We’ve all heard the term “cycle of abuse.” In their youth, some of these men were abused themselves, and often one or some of their wives were. The cycle continues.

    2. Innocence is highly valued. Wives are no longer “innocent” if they (the men) start thinking in a sick sort of way about that. I’m sure you get my drift.

    3. Believe it or not, there’s actually a matriarchy kind of thing going on in some families. There are some very controlling women in certain families. Some of the weaker men are overwhelmed and feel emasculated. They aren’t in control and don’t know how to get it, so who do they turn to? Their weak, innocent children the only ones they have any power over.

    4. If the man AND his wives are strictly following the “Law of Chastity,” he is not allowed to have sex with his wives unless they invite him. A wive not supposed to invite him unless she is fertile. What does that do to his libido?

    Just some thoughts off the top of my head.

  103. Ooops… correction: A WIFE IS not supposed to invite him unless she is fertile.

  104. East, I left a question on your blog.

  105. I answered it… I think. 🙂

  106. What if a woman was not following the laws of chastity and a “sister wife” found out. Would you expect that the sister wife would report this woman to religious authorities ? What would happen to her ?

  107. East said : Believe it or not, there’s actually a matriarchy kind of thing going on in some families. There are some very controlling women in certain families.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Dr. Janet Bennion made the same observation in her book, Women of Principle. She said that in the fundamentalist culture, men were very busy and rarely available, and women ran household business and the family and thus were “more in charge” than the men were frequently.
    She also said women in fundamentalist Mormon culture derive more satisfaction from their relationships with other women than they derive from their relationships with their husbands.
    A very interesting observation.

  108. Born in Brooklyn, I haven’t read Bennion’s book, but I can certainly back up those observations.

  109. It wouldn’t take much for a sister wife to find out. Think about the phenomenon where the menstrual cycles of several women living in the same household become synchronized.

    But let me be clear about the Law of Chastity. Living that law is highly encouraged not required. A man (and his wives) who do choose it are considered to be living “a higher law” and are therefore “better,” “more faithful,” and certainly “more pleasing to God”???? I don’t know. I only know that I don’t know of ANY family that lives it 100% . It is certainly the goal of many.

    I don’t think a woman would even think to report such a thing to the “religious authorities.” Generally the President/Prophet doesn’t allow a married woman to be interviewed without her faithful husband accompanying her. And even if he did interview her alone, he would just tell her to go back to her faithful husband to work it out.

    So a sister wife would be crazy to go behind her faithful husband’s back. Basically, HE’s the only one she can complain to. I’m sure it’s the source of a lot of jealousy, anger and frustration directed at the husband and sometimes all out fights between the women. ((Faithful is emphasized – perhaps tongue-in-cheek – to mean a man trusted by his priesthood leaders – one who is believed by THEM to be “faithful.”)

    Disclaimer: all of this could be entirely different under WSJ’s regime. I speak only from my own previous experience which may be entirely meaningless in current FLDS terms.
    ————

    Sorry for this long-winded missive; I guess it’s getting a bit late.

  110. ET

    Thanks for the insightful post. I would bet things changed both when Warren assumed position, and then again now that he isnt out and about anymore.

    Think of all his wives, and what they have in store for themselves long term.

  111. Stamp, yes – bizarre changes at both events. Even I can hardly imagine what’s in store in the long term.

  112. Well, its somewhat disconcerting. It appears that the UEP will be divided up now, and I would like to see that, and have people out from under the thumb of any one tyrant.

    I understand the mission that was meant when this all began, but it appears that greed has ripped the soul out of it.

    Word is, that I hear, is that they are all looking to relocate out to Texas. Which is a head scratcher, seeing as the Temple is not used nor is it the shangri la of lawlessness they thought it would be.

    Maybe they are just catching the wind while it still blows that direction and Warren isnt out to put a stop to it. As I recall he only wanted hand picked people on the Ranch, maybe moving to Texas for the rest is the next best thing. Dunno, but its odd they are still moving.

    Dont think they all will, as its also rumored there is a rift amongst the sheeple in following Warren anyway.

  113. There is a rift developing ? Very interesting. Glad to hear it. Wonder who will be in charge now… ?

  114. Stamp said: Think of all his wives, and what they have in store for themselves long term.

    On the other hand…some or more than some, might be giving a big old sigh of relief not to have him around anymore. Were’nt some of them ‘absorbed’ by him as wives after Rulon died? I thought I read, not all went willingly, but had no choice. Ypu don’t marry ‘down’ after you’ve been a prophets wife.

  115. If any of the still faithful n the creek packed up and moved to Texas, would they even make it through the sentry gate? I thought it was made prettttty clear to them, they were not the chosen ones!

  116. mc1199

    Indeed, but I think there are a fair amount that are in the teen and 20’s range.

    I feel that most of those women are victims. They deserve a life.

    Not that having Warren out of prison is anything of a life, just sayin. Guess it was for main squeeze Naomi.

  117. Oh, they arent necessarily moving into the Ranch. Rather, all over, out and about Texas. Slow motion exodus. Willie has a place in San Angelo.

  118. Well, it does make sense. Scatter in to smaller groups, get the public eye turned elsewhere. But, it would be nice if a big old [Baptist! Sorry, I couldn’r resist!!!] bus pulled into town and all those who wanted off the rollercoaster and a chance at running their own lives, could all board and be allowed to go to their [banished] families that want to help them.
    I hope that came out right. Sometimes my thoughts and words get twisted about.

  119. Why Texas, one asks.

  120. Texas half way back to New York?

  121. Didn’t Joseph Smith have a vision or plan regarding establishing a colony in Texas?

  122. Anona,
    As far as proximity to NY goes, I have often wondered why fundamentalist Mormons are not seen at the shrines in NY (Cumorah)
    Maybe a current (or ex) fundamentalist can answer that question

  123. Taken from Bill’s Blog – Quote from Alinusara :

    The only time I’ve got pissed off is when I reported a person for profanity and a personal attack on me when she stated “FU Alinusara in a post” and her response was to make numerous sock puppets, mass report me, and had me temporarily banned fromm SLT until I cleared my name.

    So it seems that Alinusara is a tattle – tale.
    People concerned about child abuse are tattle – tales in his judgment.
    If Alinusara’s feelings are hurt, he can make a report and he is not a tattle – tale.

    His hypocrisy is outrageous !

  124. The assumption about all the reports coming from one person with sock puppets is pretty funny because there is no way he could know that; it couldn’t possibly be that many people reported him.

  125. “Didn’t Joseph Smith have a vision or plan regarding establishing a colony in Texas?”

    ohhh yeah I musta forgot hahahahahaha good one

  126. What Al perhaps doesnt know, is you CANT make numerous sock puppets on the Trib from your computer. Perhaps if you were really ambitious and tech savvy.

    That said, I dont think anyone would go to that length just to put reports on him.

    While talking to Al is much like talking to a hand, he hasnt ever been banned here to my knowledge. He was just here posting not long ago.

    I’ve seen people get frustrated with him though. Count me in on that one too.

  127. IRT the note about them moving to Texas and why, it seems the Gravel Pit is the main new FLDS attraction.

    No Temple, and a noisy concrete batch machine, lots of cement dust, weeds for landscaping.

    Its like home away from home!

  128. Yes, he can be frustrating, but he does not get into personal attacks or foul language. Everything is relative.

  129. Hoping that Sgt Prickett picks this up. Deb Lee aka Cupcake on Bill’s blog and 40andnotmarried are posting news clips about the 2009 “police brutality” charges on the Salt Lake Tribune discussion boards. The posts are on an article about the FLDS going to the Supreme Court to block the sale of UEP property, which is the most recent article in the News/Polygamy section. I think Deb Lee is itching to be included in a law suit. If I were him, I’d contact the SLTrib office ASAP and get that stopped.

  130. Yeah, thats banning behavior right there. BTW, Brookes polygamy blog is still down. Other trib blogs are not. Also, the latest FLDS story wasnt written by her.

  131. I’d been punching the report abuse button at the trib for going on a day now, since those 2 showed up. Once anyone at the trib reads that, may not be until tomorrow, I betcha the posts get gone whether or not the posters are gone. I’ve suspected before that they know to pull crap on weekends, then once it’s removed the following week nobody ever sees that happened.

    I’m sure they’ll whine but who gives a shiny dam.

  132. They heard it this time.

  133. Oh yes. That’s a Good Thing.

  134. The posts are on an article about the FLDS going to the Supreme Court to block the sale of UEP property, which is the most recent article in the News/Polygamy section. I think Deb Lee is itching to be included in a law suit. If I were him, I’d contact the SLTrib office ASAP and get that stopped.

    ———————————-

    That 40something is a real slimeball – twists things out of context, with the constant refrain that the FLDS are a persecuted minority.

    He/she used to publicly wonder why the Southern Poverty Law Center wasn’t coming to the defense of the poor FLDS, until it was pointed out that the FLDS is on the SPLC list of hate groups.

  135. Nicely worded. lalalala

  136. The posts have been removed and Sgt. Prickett was notified of the behavior. So if it is an issue to him he had ample opportunity to document the posts.

    I found it interesting that one of 40andnotmarried’s posts were removed for “threats”.

    She is an evil person.

  137. So how are the hatemongers and bigots taking that, has anyone looked?

  138. Can someone post a link to the latest discussion on the Trib which you are discussing ? Thanks

  139. http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/50427520-78/court-flds-trust-wisan.html.csp

  140. Awww it’s disappointing that their names still exist at the SLtrib dawgonnit

  141. BiB, the text they’d posted is all gone.

  142. Thanks East – I’ll check it out…

  143. Thanks for the link E Texas.
    Even with parts missing…it’s still great reading. I see Deb, 40, et al, have learned nothing over the past few years. Still blindly following and spouting the same stuff.

  144. FLDS Texas Admins : May I ask a favor ? Every time there is a new post on the Trib that we should comment on, could you alert us and post a link ? Thanks

  145. MC1199 Even with parts missing…it’s still great reading. I see Deb, 40, et al, have learned nothing over the past few years. Still blindly following and spouting the same stuff.

    ——————————

    Yes, they are masters at red herrings and straw men, trying to distract readers away from their real agenda: they believe that the FLDS males have a right to have sex with children.

    Oh they try to obfuscate with claims of conspiracies, prejudice and rights violations, but the real truth is, they are pissed that the FLDS are being prosecuted for having sex with children.

  146. Which makes one [just me?] wonder….if the flds were taking new recruits, would they all be rushing to be the 1st in line? I know a few would, but for the most part..is it reallly a life they would willingly lead? Especially after reading E Texas’ excellent essay about the life of sister-wives. It doesn’t sound like a joyful life, to me.

  147. Brooklyn: LDS Texas Admins : May I ask a favor ? Every time there is a new post on the Trib that we should comment on, could you alert us and post a link ? Thanks

    ———————–

    If you click on the link to the Trib on the right hand side of this page, it will take you to the latest news article in their polygamy section.

    When you are on the Trib site, you can click on other news articles. Currently, the official anti-gay stance of the LDS church is garnering much more attention and heated debate than the FLDS and polygamy.

  148. mc1199: if the flds were taking new recruits, would they all be rushing to be the 1st in line? I know a few would, but for the most part..is it reallly a life they would willingly lead? Especially after reading E Texas’ excellent essay about the life of sister-wives. It doesn’t sound like a joyful life, to me.

    ——————————–

    That’s because it’s a religion set up to benefit men at the expense of women.

    I know many educated young women in their 20’s, through my daughter, my nieces, daughters of friends, through my job, and I believe that NOT ONE of them would be even remotely interested in that lifestyle.

    Now if they were promoting a religion where one woman could have multiple husbands, the reaction might be different. Think what life could be like if you had three or four husbands bringing home salaries, three or four husbands falling all over each other trying to win your favor. You’d be living like a queen!

  149. I kinda figured 7 was an optimal number, you know, like Snow White had.

  150. Yes, I remember quite fondly the ranch the various posters were gonna set up…husbands and cabana boys for all! Now THAT I woulda looked into! But, back to reality….I barely made it through 1 husband. The whole dynamic of brother-husbands might not be all that different from sister-wives! Just add macho and testosterone to the mix.

  151. Ow ow ow. Smelly too.

    Hey who’s that poobreath duduhat calls itself vulture?

  152. Holy cow….I just found out I can get this site on my Kindle!…and not to run off track of the topic…but I was just lamenting to someone the other night, that I’ll miss all the posts while I am traveling without my computer! Not now! YEAH Kindle!

    And now back to our previously scheduled programing…

  153. On the subject of conspiracy theories….this is cute and worth a giggle.

    http://www.collegehumor.com/article:1806663

  154. That link was brought to you in honor of Vulture, who thinks that folks who post here are actually in league with the admins at SL Trib and have established a “party line”! Too funny!

  155. Thanks for the tip, MC 1199 – I’ll check it out.

  156. Now if they were promoting a religion where one woman could have multiple husbands, the reaction might be different.

    Hey, where do I join up ???

  157. @Anon4now…. ::giggle:: 😀

  158. So why do you think that a minimum of three wives are required to go to heaven ?
    That wouldn’t be because a MAN wrote the book, would it ?

  159. Toad, I like your concept of a goal of 7 husbands to get to the Celestial Kingdom – let’s go with that.

  160. I had my three husbands in sequence, not simultaneously. And if I had been wiser, I just would have waited around for the last one. But maybe I became wiser because of the other two? Who can say. But no, I’m happy with the one, the right one.

  161. I know many educated young women in their 20′s, through my daughter, my nieces, daughters of friends, through my job, and I believe that NOT ONE of them would be even remotely interested in that lifestyle.
    +++++++++

    The significant word in that sentence is EDUCATED.
    FLDS men fear educated women.

  162. BiB, “a minimum of three wives are required to go to heaven” is simply not true. I honestly don’t know where that myth comes from. The only time at least three wives is a necessity is for a man to be ordained a High Priest Apostle. Rulon Jeffs was the last man in the FLDS to hold that office.

    The “three wives” thing is hogwash. A man with only one wife, or even one who has no wife can enter the Celestial Kingdom. One simply has to believe and obey.

  163. Me: I know many educated young women in their 20′s, through my daughter, my nieces, daughters of friends, through my job, and I believe that NOT ONE of them would be even remotely interested in that lifestyle.
    +++++++++
    E. Texas: The significant word in that sentence is EDUCATED.
    FLDS men fear educated women.

    ———————-

    Yes, I know – I actually went back and inserted the word “educated” into my post.

    One reason why the FLDS want to get the girls knocked up at an early age is to get them trapped into motherhood and housekeeping, which keeps them out of school.

    The Taliban also denies education to women, for pretty much the same reason – to keep girls and women from learning that they have other choices besides being breeders and housekeepers for men.

  164. ET,
    In the first chapter of Brian Mackert’s book, Illegitimate, he says that Joseph Smith had a specific revelation that a man could not achieve the highest levels of Celestial glory unless he had three wives – that isn’t true ?

  165. There is a difference between going to heaven and getting to the highest levels of Celestial glory.

  166. so having three wives is the sole criterion for achieving the highest level of glory ? or is it just one of several other criteria ?

  167. Dunno. Past my knowledge of the subject.

  168. The FLDS claim that in order to have their own “planet” in the celestial kingdom that a man has to have 3 wives. I asked one ex-member about this and was told that the sealings could take place after death and that would get him the planet as well.

  169. So three earthly marriages are not necessary to achieve salvation. That’s interesting. So polygamy is not really necessary – at least while a man is alive. So much for the claim that not decriminalizing polygamy is a violation of someone’s religious rights – it isn’t really necessary anyway.

  170. Hmmm… just catching up here…

    #Anon4now said:
    There is a difference between going to heaven and getting to the highest levels of Celestial glory.

    +++++++++++++

    As I understand it, what the men (e.g., Brian Mackert) are taught in their (exclusive, no women allowed) priesthood meetings, having at least three wives is requisite to becoming a god in his own right, which is the highest level a man can achieve in the celestial kingdom. Becoming a god in your own right means having your own planet(s)… universe(s)… to rule over and populate.

    Having (at least) three wives does NOT guarantee becoming a god. I was taught there will only be 144,000 men ever born on this earth (12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel) who will have that right.

    The celestial kingdom is the highest glory but it will be filled with many degrees of the most faithful. Some will be lesser than others; they will become servants to the most righteous. We were taught that even being a servant in the celestial world is a glory beyond our human imagination.

    When I was young, I wanted passionately to become a goddess and have my own servants and bear my god-husband’s spirit children. I did not want to be a “glorified” toilet cleaner.

  171. but if you can be married to three women posthumously, you don’t need to be married to three while alive… just leave directions in your will for a posthumous ceremony wedding yourself to Marie Curie, Marilyn Monroe, and Mother Teresa…. brains, beauty and spirituality ….. the total package.

  172. BiB… that is just TOO LOGICAL. 😉
    Is anyone under the illusion that we’re talking about reason and logic here?

    (Actually, I find that to be true of all organized religion.)

  173. I think that most fundamentalist men would probably have better luck posthumously wedding three women with known histories from the past rather than take their chances with three women who are unknown quantities whom they are arranged to marry by a Prophet….

  174. The FLDS claim that in order to have their own “planet” in the celestial kingdom that a man has to have 3 wives. I asked one ex-member about this and was told that the sealings could take place after death and that would get him the planet as well.

    ———————————-

    Did I read somewhere that one of the FLDS prophets, Rulon or Warren, claimed that the moon landing was a hoax, because that means it’s possible for anybody to get into outer space without jumping through Mormon hoops.

    The whole “have your own planet and rule over others” is proof to me that this is not a Christian religion, it’s just the same old human greed for power and control that’s been around for centuries.

    So not what Christ is about.

  175. Apparently Bill doesn’t like me, since this won’t post over there… In response to Kent’s comments about Sgt. Prickett.

    ===
    Kent,

    The truth is available for anyone that wants it.

    The DUI did NOT go POOF? No person who “resisted arrest” and was charged with DUI gets to plea down to a ticket for not quite stopping at the imaginary line.

    According to the Denton County website, Elliott pled out to Obstructing Highway, a class B misdemeanor punishable by 6 months in jail and a $2,000 fine. DUI in Texas is also a class B misdemeanor – but also has a drivers license suspension and a $1,000 surcharge to renew the drivers license after the suspension is over. Seems simple, he plead out to avoid a suspended license. He did not get a ticket for not stopping at the clearly marked (not imaginary) line.

    If you know so much, tell us which prosecutor it was that initiated the internal affairs investigation. Then explain how the initial charges were NOT prosecuted.

    Lisa Decker – who did not initiate an internal affairs investigation, but asked for a review of the entire process, and is also the one that Elliott made the plea deal with.

    Is there something more you want to tell us about that?

    The AG’s office provides lawyers for all state-employed police officers, so Prickett, being a state police officer, was represented by them. Quite a bit different than a “rent-a-cop” isn’t it? Also, UNT has about 36,000 students and is a major research university. It’s the fourth largest university in Texas, behind UT, A&M, and U of H.

    The transcript (which you can purchase from the Federal District Court) shows the Federal District Judge apologizing to both Prickett and Linnell – and telling them not to let the memory of this lawsuit prevent them from doing what they needed to do on the street in the future, specifically including the use of force against those that won’t submit to arrest.

    The transcript also shows that Elliott’s attorney claimed things that weren’t true about the video, all of which were pointed out to the jury, while the videotape was rolling. According to the transcript, Elliott’s attorney would state that something did not happen on the videotape and then the officers would point out exactly where on the videotape that you could see it.

    The jury of 8 came to a unanimous conclusion after reviewing the frame by frame analysis prepared by the DPS crime lab of the video. It took them a total of 5 minutes after viewing that to determine that there was no excessive force used. Doesn’t seem like much doubt.

    Preponderance of the evidence means just over 50% – nowhere close to the proof required in a criminal trial and Elliott didn’t even have enough for that much lower standard. The court found Elliott liable for costs – not including the approximately $20,000 to $25,000 it cost him to sue, go through the appellate process, hire expert witnesses, and then a week-long trial.

    The jury probably didn’t like the fact that (again, per the transcript and the videotape) Elliott threatened the officers’ lives, stating that they had “signed your death warrants” and “you’re f**king dead”.

  176. Those that are interested may also want to look at the publicly available record of both Mr. Gus Elliott and his attorney, Richard Gladden. See this link and then plug in their names. You’ll want to check both of them.

  177. Bob O ‘Baba: Thank you so much for posting the facts and the link for further infomation on this incident. Apparently bill m and his supporters have made up their minds and have no need for facts and reality.

  178. I wonder why Gladden still has a license to practice law given his own record after going to the criminal record search. Thanks for this valuable insight into his character and the character of his client.

  179. Sounds like Bill’s imaginary Texas attorney is this same guy Gladden.

    Right up his alley.

  180. Maybe they should get together and have breakfast in a closed donut shop.

  181. Thank you BoB

  182. Bob…… The post that you refered to as not being posted on Bills Blog is posted on Bills Blog.

  183. The 40something poster accused the Trib of editing and deleting posts in order to show an anti-FLDS bias. The Trib replied that they NEVER edit posts.

    He/she also accused Trib posters of running back to this blog for the purpose of getting people to capture screen shots of the Trib.

    Or something like that – that person has serious mental issues with their posts being contradicted by truth and facts.

  184. In the latest broadcast of Polygamy : What Love is This ? ex polygamist wife Marisa describes her life as a polygamous wife and her escape from the AUB

    http://www.whatloveisthis.tv/ep340.htm

  185. 40’s well known to have mental issues. Nothing any of us can do, sheheit needs mental help we cannot give.

  186. ZXC did that bill person make any/many alterations to the text? Just curious, I don’t go there.

  187. Scott seems to be trying to start a rumor that the bigamy charges are going to be dropped against Wendell. My sources say just the opposite, that the case will go forward and other cases of bigamy could be forthcoming.

    The continuance was requested by the defendant’s attorney, not by the State of Texas. Texas is ready to proceed to trial.

  188. They do live on their own little planet don’t they, anon.

  189. hmm more bigamy charges. That could well be what the Schleicher County Grand Jury’s been contemplating. Or partly. And what FLDS have been dodging.

    I’m curious how many wives Willie’s moved with him, wouldn’t it be great to see him get nicked!

  190. There is still the “wrong baby” gal who really wanted, begged for, criminal charges.

  191. O wait, isn’t Willie in Tom Green County? Some of these folk are. Here there and everywhere any more.

  192. Granny.it looks like it is all there but I will reread it.

  193. I don’t go to bill m’s site either. Too much foul language, racial slurs, sexual slurs, etc.Also, yo cannot know what you read on someone’s post is actually what the poster wrote or is what bill wrote.

  194. I don’t go to bill m’s site either. Too much foul language, racial slurs, sexual slurs, etc.Also, yo cannot know what you read on someone’s post is actually what the poster wrote or is what bill wrote.

    ———————

    I don’t go because he doesn’t need any more hits to count.
    However, does anybody know if looking at sites in Google cache count as hits? I admit I did go look at the cache of the site when he was shut down.

  195. The whole “have your own planet and rule over others” is proof to me that this is not a Christian religion, it’s just the same old human greed for power and control that’s been around for centuries.

    _______________________________

    Amen

    Add to that “to become a god.” Not only is not Christian, it isn’t part of the Judeo-Christian cluster of beliefs either. It’s well—Mormon.

  196. This is cute and short enough to suit it’s subject. I think it’s appropriate for our discussions.

  197. A few denomonations use the reference in Genisis “and man will become as God” to mean that man either collectively or as an individual will become God or assume his power. The line is part of the punishment of man for their disobedience in Eden. To rule over others, decisde life or death issues, create life, are all Gods dominion and it is easy to interpret the line in Genisis to mean that a man can and will be Godlike.

  198. I interpret it to mean that we will all become Spirit. Also, to say the least, the Bible is repetitive and sometimes contradictory. If nothing existed but God, then what is everything made out of besides Godstuff? If God made us “in their image made They them” (as I once had the translation explained to me in a college theology class) then aren’t we “as God” from the get-go?

    But then, I’m sort of New Age/Buddhist influenced.

  199. Christians don’t believe that God was once a man and that he became a God – but fundamentalist Mormons do –
    To review this and other differences between Christianity and fundamentalist Mormon teaching – see the following :

    http://carm.org/comparison-between-christian-doctrine-and-mormon-doctrine

  200. Yep…a lot of people “interpret” it to mean what the LDS seem to believe also. Kind of interesting how freedom of religion works ……….isn’t it.

  201. Believe in whatever you like, call it whatever you like – and I defend your right to do so – but it isn’t a Christian belief system.

  202. I agree, Born in Brooklyn. It fails on the basic step of belief in Jesus as the way to Salvation plus or minus good works (depending upon variety of Christian). But no extra credit, no becoming a god. The whole concept that humans can perform ordinances here which have weight in heaven is pure magic; it’s also heresy IMHO that man can tell God what to do with folks in heaven.

  203. The CARM link spells out clearly the salient differences between Christianity and fundamentalist Mormonism very well.

  204. Betty

    Loved that video! Great find. BTW, I think I knew that guy….

  205. ZXC

    Nice handle. Kinda like qwerty.

    Say, thats all well and good as it should be. However, there is a person about who claims that God’s standard is “ZERO” because God gave Adam Eve, fully developed at the ripe age of “ZERO”.

    Now that would be funny only – some people actually act out on those ideas.

    They are wrong, and deeply disturbed.

  206. FYI, apparently the Trib has banned both Deb Lee and 40andnotmarried.

  207. Dunno bout that 40 returned whining.

  208. NoName: FYI, apparently the Trib has banned both Deb Lee and 40andnotmarried.

    ———————–

    How can you tell if somebody has been banned? They did have a lot of their recent posts deleted, whereupon 40andwhacked accused the Trib of editing his/her posts and showing an anti-FLDS bias, which the Trib denied in the longest post I have ever seen an admin post on those forums.

    Also, I just noticed that they removed one of Alin’s posts for “personal attack,” which was apparently against me LOL

    I’m not perfect, I had a post removed also, for being off topic.

  209. Well, I had one removed for “personal attack”. What I actually said was that Vulture was off topic and that the idea that there was some conspiracy theory between the posters and the SLTrib admin was pretty absurd. That’s not really a personal attack where I come from, but hey. I don’t remember reading anything by Alinusara that was any more of a personal attack than mine and I read all of that time sequence before they started deleting.

  210. yes, the pro flds side believes in these huge conpiracy theories involving Rozita, the KS, posters on polygamy, blog operators, LE in different states, Dan Fisher, judges in various states, etc, etc.
    It is quite comical.

  211. Its really funny, they wonder what this big conspiracy against them is – when they are so used to getting away with similar crimes in Shartcrack.

    All of a sudden they branch out like crazy and they got busted. Should have gone with the Las Vegas slogan:

    “What happens in Hildale, Stays in Hildale”

  212. I don’t remember reading anything by Alinusara that was any more of a personal attack than mine and I read all of that time sequence before they started deleting.
    ==================================================
    Thanks. I don’t believe I’ve ever done any personal attack on anyone over there. The admins over on Trib are getting pretty heavy handed on the ‘ol delete button on people of both sides of the ongoing arguments. I guess it will continue as long as people continue to report trivial concerns which is too bad. The best advice I’ve ever got was that you never learn anything by only arguing with people who agree with you.

  213. Alin, I think they are overly cautious because there is a law suit going on and they don’t want to become part of it. Very wise, IMHO. I do not think bringing up Sgt Prickett in that environment is trivial.

    You annoy the bejeebus out of me sometimes, Alin, but you seem to have an internal code of ethics and you stick to it. I appreciate that.

  214. Oh Al sure you do the personal attacks, then follow it up by saying you only respond to personal attacks, that was quite funny! You bigots and haters are so used to attacking normal people that maybe you don’t even notice you’re doing it.

  215. The champion name caller award goes to: 40 and? Deb Lee? Celitc? Alin10? Cast your ballots.

  216. Why all the concern over whether or not Mormons are Christian. Freedom of religion IS freedom of religion and all in this country can chose the religion that they will follow or ignore. A young lady has just been allowed to return to a school for what amounts to belonging to a tattoo/pierceing religion. Finding God thru body pierceing is a new one in the Religious tolerance book.

  217. We’re all in favor of freedom of religion – as long as the practice of someone’s religion doesn’t interfere with the rights of vulnerable subjects

  218. A few denomonations use the reference in Genisis “and man will become as God” to mean that man either collectively or as an individual will become God or assume his power. The line is part of the punishment of man for their disobedience in Eden. To rule over others, decisde life or death issues, create life, are all Gods dominion and it is easy to interpret the line in Genisis to mean that a man can and will be Godlike.

    ZXC said this on October 11, 2010 at 1:23 PM

    ZXC, you stated that a lot of denominations believed in this “man becomes God” doctrine.
    Yes, that is true, but these would not be Christian denominations. Just making that observation for the sake of clarity

  219. I think that Alin is for the most part a gentleman, and I appreciate that. I do not however believe he is a Southern Baptist, as he claims.

  220. Yeah, I don’t really care if they are Christian or not. It bothers me slightly that they claim to be Christian when I thin they fail to prove that. But none of that has any bearing on the crimes of sex with minors.

  221. Nor does claiming some cult religion allow other lawbreaking. Those people can not create their own shadow law and cops and judges over and above their state and this nation. They cannot refuse human nor civil rights to others not of their cult beliefs. They cannot refuse to educate American children. They cannot claim any right to sex and procreation with minor children. The list goes on, when it comes to FLDS specifically.

  222. There is no religious “right” to endanger the welfare of vulnerable subjects in the US.

    In Hinduism, a virtuous widow was expected (and in some cases, coerced) into throwing herself onto her husband’s funeral pyre (called the practice of sati) as suggested in the Hindu Canon of Scriptures, specifically the Vishnu Smriti.

    There is no “right” for Hindus to compel a widow to commit sati in the US or India, nor do Hindus have a “right” to discriminate against or mistreat Indians of lower castes (as dictated in the Hindu Scriptural text “the Laws of Manu”) in this country.
    All religious groups must follow the law of the land.

  223. Me: I don’t remember reading anything by Alinusara that was any more of a personal attack than mine and I read all of that time sequence before they started deleting.
    ==================================================
    Alin: Thanks. I don’t believe I’ve ever done any personal attack on anyone over there.

    —————————–

    Although I disagree STRONGLY with Alin’s opinions and I sometimes think he is being deliberately obtuse, I have never felt personally attacked by him.

  224. Thought this might interest some : Coping with Polygamy : A First Wife’s Jihad

    http://www.polyganyfirstwife.com/toc.htm

  225. Is there a hearing this week ?

  226. I think that last attack was against rebeckah.

  227. Good, point about the hindu traditions, S.

  228. This just in regarding this morning’s hearing for FLDS member Keith William Dutson:

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/oct/12/flds-trial-may-move-to-sutton-county/
    ———

    “The next trial of a member of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints may move to Sutton County.”

  229. What happened with Rebeckah with regard to her being attacked as you mentioned ?

  230. He switched attorneys from Randy Wilson to Brandon Hudson. Guess Brandon just loves ticking Judge Walther off.

  231. Wasn’t it only a matter of time before ‘jury depletion’ became an issue? I mean, eventually it had to become an issue. Even if there are X number of people in the area available for jury service, it’s still a huge jury pool draw each time. I’m sure they’re happy for the break…? Maybe?

  232. Coping with Polygamy : A First Wife’s Jihad
    http://www.polyganyfirstwife.com/toc.htm

    ————————-

    I am SO glad I wasn’t born FLDS or Muslim. Or Mormon or Catholic, for that matter either.

    My God doesn’t doesn’t want me to just suck it up and accept being a second class citizen.

  233. I know a lot of Catholic women who don’t accept being a second class citizen, either. But don’t tell the Pope, OK?

  234. I especially liked the section in that story of Islamic polygamy where the woman had to ask her husband for permission to get a divorce. He hurts her and then he has the power to say “no” when she can’t take it any more. NICE.

  235. So what is the acceptable list of religions that you believe should be included in our constitution.

  236. ZXC So what is the acceptable list of religions that you believe should be included in our constitution.

    ———————————–

    ??? There is no list of religions in our Constitution, since Church and State are separate. People are free to BELIEVE whatever they wish. ACTIONS, of course, are subject to laws and restrictions.

    Which brings me back to my original note of gratitude above: I am grateful to be a woman born in America, where my rights, opportunities, and responsibilities are equal to those of men.

    If you want to make a list, how about religions that DON’T give equal rights and responsibilities to women. I’ll start:

    Islam
    Catholicism
    Mormonism
    Fundamental Mormonism

  237. Just a little nitpick:

    No one is BORN Muslim or Mormon or Catholic or FLDS or any religion. We come from the womb innocent and unknowing. We are soon brainwashed (not intended in the invective sense) by parents, teachers, and trusted others to believe or adopt [whatever].

    Ideally, what goes along with those persuasions is strong encouragement at a young age to individuate oneself – to think for oneself and make one’s own choices – without rancor.

  238. OO****** BREAKING NEWS ALERT *********OO

    Bruce Wisan, Jeff Sheilds and the UEP just won another court case toward getting Hildale subdivided.

    Dont know when it will be on the Trib. But its great news for the folks out there, one more step in getting out from under the thumb of Warren.

    Who also has had a reported 3 hour end times rant delivered by John Wayman directed at his unfaithful students of Fundled theology, oh it was directed at the US and Canada too.

  239. E Texas: Just a little nitpick:
    No one is BORN Muslim or Mormon or Catholic or FLDS or any religion. We come from the womb innocent and unknowing. We are soon brainwashed (not intended in the invective sense) by parents, teachers, and trusted others to believe or adopt [whatever].
    Ideally, what goes along with those persuasions is strong encouragement at a young age to individuate oneself – to think for oneself and make one’s own choices – without rancor

    ———————

    Ah yes, you are so right. Feel free to nitpick any time 🙂

  240. Who also has had a reported 3 hour end times rant delivered by John Wayman directed at his unfaithful students of Fundled theology, oh it was directed at the US and Canada too.

    ——————-

    Oh dear, is it time to hunker down and await God’s wrath?

  241. Thinking if they all move to Texas the problems will all go away.

    Then again maybe not.

  242. Here is another newsworthy item, posted because of it’s relevancy in the face of the recent LDS statements about homosexuality.

    SAN DIEGO (AP) – A federal judge issued a worldwide injunction Tuesday immediately stopping enforcement of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy, suspending the 17-year-old ban on openly gay U.S. troops.

    Might be tough going for Mormon politicians, even when they say they wouldn’t allow their religious views to affect how they would govern if elected.

    http://www.komonews.com/news/national/104799939.html

  243. #

    So what is the acceptable list of religions that you believe should be included in our constitution.

    ZXC said this on October 12, 2010 at 4:41 PM

    Response : None – all should be tolerated unless their tenets violate the rights of vulnerable subjects within or outside their group.

  244. “I think that last attack was against rebeckah.”

    I must have missed that one. I didn’t see what Al said that got deleted nor did I see Vulture’s many comments. I kind of feel deprived.

    On the other hand, I know I’ve been rude and even attacked other people so I’m not going to be all offended if it happens back to me from time to time. Al does not generally attack anyone specifically that I know of.

  245. I dont think the Muslim sharia law will ever be allowed here.

    If Sharia law says you get a time out for gum on the carpet, they might be able to that, yeah.

    When it gets around to stoning to death, or chopping off a hand for theft, well, that just aint gonna happen any more than child marriage should happen.

  246. Asking about an “acceptable number of religions (to include) in our constitution” is funny as heck! Was that a 7 year old or FLDS?

  247. Say what about those old indian religions in old mexico and central america.

    Or the incas. These religions practice everything from sacrificing virgins on the altar, to taking children to mountain tops and left to freeze dry in a cubby.

    There are lots of religious practices that arent allowed in the US, or the modern world for that matter.

    Some nasty practices are still going on in the name of religion, including beheadings, stonings, and many other crimes against humanity. I think the bulk of these are muslim actions, but we have the child bride fiasco right here in river city.

  248. Believe it or not, in Britain there are Sharia Law courts which may be used by adherents of Islam in civil matters. Their decrees are binding in Britain. It is a problem in that Moslem women are encouraged by their imams to use the Sharia court system to access a quick alternative resolution to their legal disputes in lieu of the slower British secular system. Unfortunately too many of these women find out that in a Sharia court divorce proceeding, they have fewer rights than men do – women often lose custody of their children, and women have a higher burden of proof in a divorce proceeding than men do. Luckily we do not have that system here – and I don’t expect it to be instituted here.

  249. Here is the website for One Law For All Campaign in Britain, which highlights how the Sharia courts in Britain deny women of their rights in civil actions.

    http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/

  250. S

    That is rather disturbing. I bet the bulk of the US citizens dont even know about it. As in my analogy, I would still call this “Sharia light” but it shows how they can creep in.

    Saying they will start out with little things and before you know it Sharia law will be practiced in all its glory, if not in the court room, in back alleys.

    France has problems to as I recall.

  251. When it gets around to stoning to death, or chopping off a hand for theft, well, that just aint gonna happen any more than child marriage should happen.

    ——————

    Or blood atonement, something that Warren Jeffs allegedly condoned in his sermons.

  252. From the Qu’ran on the Rights of Women :
    Q2.282 says a woman’s testimony is worth only half that of a man. Q4:11 orders that a son’s inheritance be equal to that of two daughters. Q4:34 allows men to beat their wife (or wives, ie. concubines) if she (they) disobey him. Q2:223 likens a woman to a field to be cultivated at will by the man. Q4:3 allows men to “marry” up to 4 wives

  253. The issue with Sharia law courts in Britain is that women cannot divorce their husbands for adultery in a Sharia court, because Islamic law allows a man to have “temporary wives” for the sake of sexual gratification. Additionally because the Qu’ran permits wife beating, a woman may not divorce her husband in Sharia court due to physical abuse.

  254. I’ll summarize what Vulture said, Rebeckah. “People on my team got their comments removed. It must be a conspiracy!”

  255. Yeah, sharia law got introduced as being the same as a secular mediator service. But, not so much. But I don’t see that so much as a problem for the women because any woman who would go there for a divorce is very devout and part of that culture – she’s going to do what they tell her to do no matter what the British law system allows her. And yeah, I don’t see this happening in the US.

    I joined the One Law for all thing on Facebook. Then when I realized that everything they were talking about was in Britain, I was not so enthused about getting their messages. Then I read the outright, undiluted Islamaphobic hate speech that passes for comments on that board, I got out of it. Unfortunately, for reasons I can’t figure out, they can still send me messages about rallies in London and the like. I wish them well and hope they can fix things in England, but I really don’t need a blow for blow detail in my inbox. Maybe someday I’ll figure out how to block it.

  256. The website “One Law for All” gives a more balanced presentation than the Facebook page you are referring to – I provided a link above.

  257. Good, thanks. Sorry I got carried away in sharing one of my pet peeves. I’ll check out your link and view it from there, because there is some overlap with what I am interested in and think is important.

  258. Here is a link to a current story in Iran. A woman sentenced to death by stoning has had her son, and lawyer abducted by the state of Iran.

    Also two journalists looking into it.

    http://www.aolnews.com/world/article/son-lawyer-of-condemned-iranian-woman-sakineh-mohammadi-ashtiani-reported-missing/19669415?test=latestnews

  259. THANK YOU PAT CONDELL

    LOL

    I’ve seen him before on youtube, kind of an older “fred’ but without the pesky whiney voice.

    Here he speaks of whats going on in Britain and Saudi Arabia.

  260. The Sharia law courts in Britian are little different than the Catholic law courts in the United States in that their decrees apply onl to the members of the resprctive religion that uses the court. Jewish “courts” also are used by Jews in the US. The Secular govt does not recognize the decrees of religious courts and the partys that use them must go thru the secular courts for matters to be binding in the secular world. Divorce/anulment is one example of Catholic issues decided in a US court…..a civil divorce is not recognized by the church …….many Catholics just divorce and go their way without a church “trial” and deal with the various church difficulties later.

  261. who cares

  262. You can have silly customs in any neighborhood but without a signed HoA agreement it doesn’t matter one damn

  263. When this nonsense is counter to State and US laws then you’re in a spot. Like these tiddlywink FLDS and others who forgot that Texas has still got common law on the books and prosecutes bigamy as well as kiddiediddlers. Felony crimes get you state prison time in the penitentiary.

  264. ZXC –
    You are incorrect. The Sharia courts in Britain are an alternative system to the secular court system, if you wish to use it. Their judgments are binding, but may be later appealed thru the secular system.
    It is NOT the same thing as the Catholic annulment system in the US or the Beit Din in Judaism in the US. I would suggest that you review the issue further.

  265. See this : Not the same as canon law court in the US, or the Beit Din.

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article4749183.ece

  266. oh LOOK, there was a UEP hearing in St. George, Utah this morning. Busy FLDS lawyers today. I wonder how things turned out?

    FIFTH DISTRICT COURT-ST GEORGE
    JAMES L SHUMATE October 12, 2010
    Courtroom 3D Tuesday
    09:00 AM

    11:00 AM PENDING MOTIONS 070500105 Miscellaneous
    WISAN, BRUCE R ATTY: SHIELDS, JEFFREY L
    VS.
    HILDALE CITY ATTY: STIRBA, PETER
    HAMILTON, R BLAKE
    TWIN CITY WATER AUTHORITY PATTERSON, DAVID L
    SHIRTS, RUSSELL BELNAP, BROCK R
    INT: JEFFS, LYLE ATTY:
    THE FUNDAMENATALIST CHURCH OF ATTY:
    ——————————————————————————

  267. zxc are you FLDS?

  268. …Rulings issued by a network of five sharia courts are enforceable with the full power of the judicial system, through the county courts or High Court.

    Previously, the rulings of sharia courts in Britain could not be enforced, and depended on voluntary compliance among Muslims.

    It has now emerged that sharia courts with these powers have been set up in London, Birmingham, Bradford and Manchester with the network’s headquarters in Nuneaton, Warwickshire. Two more courts are being planned for Glasgow and Edinburgh.

    Under the act, the sharia courts are classified as arbitration tribunals. The rulings of arbitration tribunals are BINDING IN LAW.

    In July, the head of the judiciary, the lord chief justice, Lord Phillips, further stoked controversy when he said that sharia could be used to settle marital and financial disputes.

    In fact, Muslim tribunal courts started passing sharia judgments in August 2007. They have dealt with more than 100 cases that range from Muslim divorce and inheritance…

    Politicians and church leaders expressed concerns that this could mark the beginnings of a “parallel legal system” based on sharia for some British Muslims.

    Dominic Grieve, the shadow home secretary, said: “If it is true that these tribunals are passing binding decisions in the areas of family and criminal law, I would like to know which courts are enforcing them because I would consider such action unlawful. British law is absolute and must remain so.”

    Douglas Murray, the director of the Centre for Social Cohesion, said: “I think it’s appalling. I don’t think arbitration that is done by sharia should ever be endorsed or enforced by the British state.”

    There are concerns that women who agree to go to tribunal courts are getting worse deals because Islamic law favours men.

    Siddiqi said that in a recent inheritance dispute handled by the court in Nuneaton, the estate of a Midlands man was divided between three daughters and two sons.

    The judges on the panel gave the sons twice as much as the daughters, in accordance with sharia. Had the family gone to a normal British court, the daughters would have got equal amounts….

  269. I don’t know if ZXC is FLDS or not, but one thing is for sure – he opens up his mouth before he knows what he is talking about

  270. Ok KS….. excuse me for being a few months behind on my Sharia law discussion…and no I am not FLDS, as if either issue matters.

  271. That’s ok, ZXC, good night

  272. ale wife put out a poll earlier today asking:
    The champion name caller award goes to: 40 and? Deb Lee?
    And I stopped right there because I vote for Deb Lee aka cupcake aka fruitcake.

    I sneaked a peek on the Bile Medvecky blog and held my nose while I repeatedly read this “cupcake” creature refer to some “hag”.
    She went ON and ON and ON referring to the “hag”.

    Because of this, I vote that “The champion name caller award” goes to Deb Lee.

  273. Honestly I give zxc credit for maybe struggling to learn something here. Sometimes this is a good way to find out what you don’t know.

  274. Cupcake, aka Deb Lee –

    The champion name caller and self righteous, self congratulatory know it all psychiatric nurse. She reminds me of Roseann Rosannadana. Someone pull up an old You Tube video clip.
    Typical Cupcake Quote : That reminds me when I was a little girl, I knew an axe murderer too ..

  275. WOW, this caught my attention. To me, this percentage sounds really high, but what do I know?

    Officials say 37% of Utah woman have been slapped, kicked or hurt in someway by a domestic partner.

    http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/story/Utah-Women-Have-New-Shelters-from-Domestic/Xixho5FLO0OvE4MoZm9rjA.cspx

  276. Cupcake, aka Deb Lee –

    The champion name caller and self righteous, self congratulatory know it all psychiatric nurse. She reminds me of Roseann Rosannadana. Someone pull up an old You Tube video clip.
    Typical Cupcake Quote : That reminds me when I was a little girl, I knew an axe murderer too ..

    Nocturnal Anon said this on October 12, 2010 at 11:41 PM

    HA HA HA Rosanna Rosannadana. Someone a week or so ago commented about “Dupcake’s” tendency to “match or better” another poster. Something about this poster having a need or tendency to reflect on a personal “similar” story or a “better than” story.

    Whatever.

  277. Yes, I really get tired of being called a hater by Deb Lee/ Cupcake. Especially since I feel no hatred towards the flds or anyone else. I do call attention to their law breaking ways. Am I a hater bcause I might call attention to drug dealers, robbers, etc? Should we give the flds a pass because they are a religious group and dress in a distinctive way? Not only no, but Heck No!

  278. Catholic law courts? What on earth is he talking about? I have an aunt who is a nun, my whole family was Catholic, I was taught by Jesuits and Sisters of Mercy , my sister went to Catholic school all the way through college and I have never in my life heard of a Catholic law court. Sounds like some prejudice mumbo jumbo to me. And yes, some people are prejudiced against Catholics, especially in the South.

  279. Canon law courts grant religious annulments, not divorces. Their judgments are not legally binding, and mean absolutely nothing in the secular world. A Catholic in the US would need to get a secular divorce before they could remarry after obtaining an annulment. Same is true of the Jewish law court, called Beit Din. They grant religious divorces which are not legally binding.

  280. Absolutely. Canon law is about how the CHURCH is run and is so far from sharia law in my mind that I didn’t even think of that. How ignorant!

    The only issue of an annulment is whether you can remarry IN THE CHURCH. That has nothing to do with “real” law and neither Catholics or anyone else sees it that way. Also, an annulment is very difficult to obtain and it is equally difficult for both men and women. You have to prove there was some problem in the origin of the marriage.

  281. The problem is sharia law is still stuck in the 14th century. Everyone else moved on long ago. Heck, Italy had secular family law in 1100, as did England. Both thanks to the Normans.

  282. Here is a complete reenactment of Roseanne Rosannadana which has the complete skit

  283. LOL

    I couldnt find any full clips of the real Gildna – but yeah thats the act! ADHD to boot!

  284. I miss her.

  285. Yes me too. She could have had a great career. SNL was a springboard for lots of talent.

  286. Ann4now said: The only issue of an annulment is whether you can remarry IN THE CHURCH.

    And, if I remmeber correctly [also being raised by Jesuits and Sisters of Mercy] getting an annulment also means that your children don’t exist, in the eyes of the Church, cuz the annulment means the marriage never happened. At least, that’s what a friend of mine faced many years ago.

  287. Is there any information regarding the UEP hearing in Utah yesterday ?

  288. mc1199 –
    Actually according to Catholic Canon law, an annulment does not affect the legitimacy of children born in the marriage : See here –

    http://www.idotaketwo.com/christian_remarriage.html

  289. Lost in Poligville is back blogging again, now on a non political level –

    http://peanutheadinpoligville.blogspot.com/2010/10/dr-kung-fu.html

  290. Betty,
    That Utah statistic on women and domestic violence in Utah is high. The national statistics indicate that only 25% of women are victims of domestic violence.

    http://www.ahrq.gov/research/domviolria/domviolria.htm

  291. mc1199,

    I think that a lot has changed. When I went to a wedding and there were female altar boys I almost passed out from shock. Also, I think there is local interpretation; sometimes a local priest says something like that and it is taken to heart, where the words of the ruling from the council is not. And then there’s the crap that the old Italian grandmothers repeat, evil eye and all. I’m sure that the same sort of factors are at play in Islamic cultures.

  292. Yes, S, I think I have read also that the rape statistics for Utah is very high and the prosecution is very low.

  293. That Utah statistic on women and domestic violence in Utah is high. The national statistics indicate that only 25% of women are victims of domestic violence.
    ==================================================
    That’s actually pretty good. That means that women in Utah are not afraid to report that they are victims of a crime.

  294. Quite an attempt at spin, Alinusara.

  295. He’s been practicing that one for quite awhile. Assume that the real number is the same (or lower) and come up with a reason why the numbers would indicate that it’s higher. Eh.

  296. Alin is quite the apologist. I wonder if he is at all concerned that the actual incidence of abuse is higher in Utah than the national average.
    Please note that the number of prescriptions written for anti depressants in Utah is higher than anywhere else in the US.
    I wonder if Alin would tell us that this is good, because the people of Utah are not afraid to tell their doctors they are depressed.

  297. Al is a contortionist

  298. I wonder how much he actually believes his own spin

  299. It’s amazing what people will do or say when they are repenting from afar.

  300. That Utah statistic on women and domestic violence in Utah is high. The national statistics indicate that only 25% of women are victims of domestic violence.
    ==================================================
    That’s actually pretty good. That means that women in Utah are not afraid to report that they are victims of a crime.

    —————————–

    No, that’s not what that means – but nice try anyway.

  301. “That’s actually pretty good. That means that women in Utah are not afraid to report that they are victims of a crime.”

    Or it’s actually pretty sad since experience shows that crimes of this sort are usually vstly underreported and the actual rates are probably much higher.

    In fact, with the Mormon teachings that women are second class citizens, I’d be very surprised if the numbers weren’t vastly higher.

  302. Why does some Southern Baptist guy in TN feel it necessary to explain why stats in Utah regarding high rates of domestic violence are really OK. I don’t live in Utah and feel no need to rationalize their stats.

  303. Ale Wife –
    That’s because Alinusara is not a Southern Baptist – he is ex FLDS repenting from afar in Tennessee. It is amazing what he will do to try to get back in again.

  304. In fact, with the Mormon teachings that women are second class citizens

    ———————-

    I once asked a female Mormon acquaintance why women weren’t allowed to be priests or bishops, and why there were no women in the leadership Quorum.

    Her reply was that women were “too busy” raising children and taking care of families, which was more important anyway. I didn’t want to start an argument, so I didn’t point out to her that both her daughters were grown and married, and the only person now living with her was her husband.

    Just want to add that all the Mormons that I have met are the nicest people in the world, which is why at one time I actually wondered if it might be something for me. However, after studying their history, and in particular Joseph Smith, I decided that he was nothing more than a charismatic and greedy con man, and a religion based on his teachings was a religion with a foundation built on sand.

  305. I don’t think he’s an exFLDS-er. I think he really comes from Tennessee because of the speech patterns. And I think he fancies himself a libertarian or similar. Haven’t seen any particular indication of a religion; mostly non committal on that subject. Although there was a comment that said his God was not merciful or loving or some such term.

  306. He also said on the Trib Board that he “might be” FLDS to Stamp. Contact Stamp for details.

  307. From the Trib Board – a discussion of the management of fumarase deficiency last month –

    September 22, 2010 9:12 pm
    Far and groovin says:
    You following the FLDS God?

    Sep 23, 2010 06:14 am alinusara10 says:
    I dunno. I could be I suppose

  308. Let the stalling continue, Keate just got an extension of time to file his brief for his appeal.

  309. This just in from Canada –

    Pakistani polygamists who have married their cousins are immigrating to Canada.

    http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/10/12/15666791.html#/news/canada/2010/10/12/pf-15666791.html

  310. Why the recurrent stalling in all of these trials ? What are they hoping to accomplish ?

  311. Yes, S, I saw that but don’t interpret that that way. I saw that as the usual slippery vagueness. Eh.

  312. Regarding Alin: His grammar is really bad, especially when he usesa singular verbs with a plural subject. They was, Tom and Jane was, Like nails on a blackboard.

  313. Yes it does that to me, too. He’s even been corrected and he says “yeah, I’ve been told that.” But then I’m probably one of five people alive who would still say “If I were queen” as opposed to “If I was queen”.

  314. ((((((((((((Breaking news update))))))))))))

    http://m.thespectrum.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101013/NEWS01/10130327/1002&template=wapart

    ST. GEORGE – Attorneys for The City of Hildale and members of a polygamy-practicing church suffered a setback Tuesday in their bid to control Hildale properties owned by a trust once connected to the church.

    Fifth District Court Judge James Shumate ruled against the attorneys’ efforts to set aside an earlier court ruling on the subdivision of Hildale land parcels for the purpose of assessing taxes on individual residences.

    The earlier ruling was issued in 2007 after the defendants, The City of Hildale and Twin City Water Authority, initially failed to defend themselves in the trust’s efforts to subdivide the land parcels and make Washington County record the subdivisions.

    In the complaint against the defendants filed by court-appointed trust fiduciary Bruce Wisan, he stated, “Many of the parcels of land owned by the trust in Hildale contain multiple residences on one tax parcel. Some parcels contain more than 30 residences. The fiduciary is informed that the location of multiple residences on real property parcels owned by the trust is a major obstacle to the payment of property taxes on those parcels.”

    According to the complaint, occupants don’t have a mechanism for paying the taxes owed on a part of a parcel, and may pay taxes on their home but still end up in default if other parcel residents don’t pay for theirs.

  315. Anon4now: The phrae you used; If I were.., is correct. Ii is the subjunctive text. A few words on it from a website.

    “The subjunctive mood of the verb to be is be in the present tense and were in the past tense, regardless of what the subject is.

    Incorrect: If I was you, I would run.
    Correct: If I were you, I would run.”

  316. Yes, I know it’s correct. That makes me and you, but the rest of the US does not, it seems.

  317. Especially the flds with their home schooling 8th grade eduacation. Makes me wonder about alin’s educational background.

  318. I don’t wonder. I’ve been in rural Tennessee.

  319. I still believe that Alinusara is FLDS repenting from afar. Who else but an FLDS person would say that they had been praying for the SCOU decision regarding Warren’s retrial ?
    Also note that during a recent theological discussion on the Trib board, Alin said that his God was not compassionate, but he had Jesus in his life and that he hoped that Jesus would help him in his relationship with God. This is the viewpoint that would only be stated by a non – Trinitarian – and the FLDS is a non – Trinitarian group.

  320. It would be interesting to know if Alin (or any FLDS) believes the other great Christian-Mormon-Fundamentalist differentiator: the Adam-God Doctrine.

    I wonder if Warren is teaching Adam-God to his new-age followers as his predecessors did.

  321. The mainstream LDS do not teach the Adam/God doctrine. They also do not see Cain running around shortcreek.

  322. Well, overall, I don’t care much about whether or not Alin is XFLDS longing to return, but right now I’m waiting for the new fridge to be delivered and it’s raining hard so I’m bored. Make of that what you will.

    I just tend to believe people until I see a reason to think they are lying, and I don’t peg Alin for an out and out liar. He’s so good at wiggling and spinning, it doesn’t seem necessary. Also, I think you are assuming that other people go into religion in the same way you do; in short that people get their theological ideas by study in a system. I think most people get their ideas about God from their family and community by osmosis and resist thinking or studying whenever possible. It’s also possible to me that Alin is not really committed to any particular religion; he could have been raised Southern Baptist but be inactive and the interest in the FLDS could be making him rethink what he believes.

    There is a whole branch of Pentecostal non-trinitarians, S. There are several congregations in Tennessee and Alabama and a few that originated in Alabama. There is at least one that was founded in Tennessee, CHurches of Jesus Christ International, has a membership of approx 100,000. (Tennessee and Alabama share a long border, for the geographically challenged.)

    One thing to remember is the handle he is using has been active in playing LARP type games online for more than a decade. That is not consistent with an FLDS member, unless he left a long, long time ago.

  323. True, chemist. That’s part of the differentiation:

    1. Christians – it’s utterly blasphemous
    .
    2. Mormons – it was taught by Brigham Young (and others) but discredited now
    .
    3. Fundamentalist Mormons – it’s still taught (or was in my day) and believed as strongly as plural marriage is believed
    .

    Oh my! So Cain is believed to be running around Short Creek? 😯

  324. Anon4: Also, I think you are assuming that other people go into religion in the same way you do; in short that people get their theological ideas by study in a system. I think most people get their ideas about God from their family and community by osmosis and resist thinking or studying whenever possible.

    ————————-
    That’s an excellent observation. Neither of my parents and none of my grandparents were churchgoers, and I didn’t start going until I was an adult and was invited by friends. The first church I attended regularly was a non-denominational Christian church. I liked it very much, but we moved, and I now belong to a Presbyterian church, which offers such a warm and loving environment, with a focus on helping those in need.

  325. East,
    Could you elaborate on the Adam – Man Doctrine ?
    Thanks

  326. If I were you I’d give me credit for knowing when to use were.

    But so ennywayz FLDS think it’s a talent or art to bamboozle by swirling and switching, anything to fool us. You watch, you think about it. For instance, Willie’s just not all that good at it and has backed up his lies and bullying with force. He will, and has lied under oath and doesn’t give a flat damn. The world is supposed to believe whatever pukes from his lips because he said so. Hand delivered a letter to the US President, did he?

  327. Anon, I didn’t recognize you in your disguise. LOL.

  328. Twisting like Al does is nothing more than a higher level of lying, IMO.

    Oh were I you I wish you wouldn’t discount that I know when to use were. 😉

  329. O shoot, I’m on a different puter that didn’t know my name/s. What was I thinking!

  330. This past week or so was a large play in the media that atheists and agnostics know a whole lot more about theology and religion than to believers – kind of backs up Anon-4-now’s statement.

  331. I wonder how much closer the new ruling moves things on the ground…like are they now within 10 years of getting individual titles or within 1 year?

  332. hhg

    The atheiest and theology news items were reporting a survey done by Pew Research. Pew is actually famous for surveying Christians.

    Seems I remember regular LDS Mormons also scoring high.

  333. This past week or so was a large play in the media that atheists and agnostics know a whole lot more about theology and religion than to believers – kind of backs up Anon-4-now’s statement.

    Is that a published study in a journal, or is that someone’s (or some group’s) opinion ?

  334. Nevermind, I found it – not an IRB sponsored research study,not in a peer reviewed journal, just a poll. Jews and Mormons,as well as atheists and agnostics scored highly. There was no statistically significant difference between the scores of athetists, agnostics, Jews, and Mormons.

    See below :

    Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons are among the highest-scoring groups on a new survey of religious knowledge, outperforming evangelical Protestants, mainline Protestants and Catholics on questions about the core teachings, history and leading figures of major world religions.

    On average, Americans correctly answer 16 of the 32 religious knowledge questions on the survey by the Pew Research Center’s Forum on Religion & Public Life. Atheists and agnostics average 20.9 correct answers. Jews and Mormons do about as well, averaging 20.5 and 20.3 correct answers, respectively. Protestants as a whole average 16 correct answers; Catholics as a whole, 14.7. Atheists and agnostics, Jews and Mormons perform better than other groups on the survey even after controlling for differing levels of education.

  335. Nevermind, I found it – not an IRB sponsored research study,not in a peer reviewed journal, just a poll. Jews and Mormons,as well as atheists and agnostics scored highly. There was no statistically significant difference between the scores of athetists, agnostics, Jews, and Mormons.

  336. Here is a link to the actual poll :
    The methodology of the study does not focus on knowledge of the subjects own religion so much as it focuses on knowledge of world religions.
    http://pewforum.org/Other-Beliefs-and-Practices/U-S-Religious-Knowledge-Survey.aspx

  337. I took that last week. I got the last one wrong, I picked someone from the second great awakening.

  338. I took the poll and got only one wrong as well. (the Jonathan Edwards question)
    There was no statistically significant difference in the score on their poll regarding knowledge of world religions between atheists, agnostics, Jews, and Mormons.

  339. Yes, I recall that the LDS and the Jewish people both scored quite high on the quiz.

  340. “East,
    Could you elaborate on the Adam – Man Doctrine ?”

    ————

    S., *sigh*…. You are nothing if not tenacious. (a compliment!) I just don’t know when to keep my fingers off this keyboard. 😉

    I was merely hoping I might get some clue from someone as to what is currently believed/taught. I really wish Berry Knoll of flds101.blogspot.com would expound on that particular belief since it is an important one to Fundamentalists. Maybe it’s just “too sacred” to be discussed in public? Throwing pearls before swine? I don’t know.
    .

    I just know that mainstream Mormons (if they even know about it) are as against it as they are polygamy (calling it a theory versus a doctrine).

    That said, the Adam-God Doctrine sounds pretty esoteric (even convoluted?) – especially to outsiders who have not been indoctrinated from birth. I feel inadequate to the task of elaborating on it myself – not that I don’t understand it; just that it’s hard to put into my own words. Nor is there adequate space here to quote it.

    Meh! The truth is, I’m not willing to put myself through that kind of exercise.

    I can say, however, it was taught for over 20 years by Brigham Young and there are online references to it if one does a search for “adam-god doctrine” – including the quotes.

    However, THE FLDS definitive treatise – Michael Our Father and Our God written by Joseph W. Musser – can be found online at:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/13040738/Michael-Our-Father-and-Our-God
    .

    I have a downloaded PDF version of it (110 pages) if anyone wants to request it:

    its.your.writing
    AT gmail
    DOT com

  341. “The mainstream LDS do not teach the Adam/God doctrine. They also do not see Cain running around shortcreek.

    chemist said”

    Chemist you are right, looked up info on LDS church website and they teach that Adam was not God, but a “valient spirit” From the LDS website: “In the spirit world Adam was called Michael the Archangel”

    Read enire statement: “Adam and Eve were among our Father’s noblest children. In the spirit world Adam was called Michael the Archangel (see D&C 27:11; Jude 1:9). He was chosen by our Heavenly Father to lead the righteous in the battle against Satan (see Revelation 12:7–9). Adam and Eve were foreordained to become the parents of the human race. The Lord promised Adam great blessings: “I have set thee to be at the head; a multitude of nations shall come of thee, and thou art a prince over them forever” (D&C 107:55).

    Entire article can be read at: http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&locale=0&sourceId=077a7befabc20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=32c41b08f338c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

    Hope the long URL link works.

  342. Also on subject of the Trinity/Godhead the LDS teach the following:

    “Although the members of the Godhead are distinct beings with distinct roles, they are one in purpose and doctrine. They are perfectly united in bringing to pass Heavenly Father’s divine plan of salvation.”

    Also: “The first article of faith states, “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.” These three beings make up the Godhead. They preside over this world and all other creations of our Father in Heaven.”

    Here’s link for LDS article: http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?locale=0&sourceId=02dc991a83d20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=e1fa5f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

    IMO it appears because of these statements the modern LDS/Mormons have slowly shifted their doctrine closer to that of traditional Christianity while the FLDS have drifted off further from Christianity.

  343. That’s just it, but only half correct by FLDS standards. “…the modern LDS/Mormons have slowly shifted their doctrine” [emphasis mine] but FLDS are not “drifting” or “shifting” at all. They are holding fast to original doctrine. They believe “modern” LDS to to be in apostasy and without priesthood.

    The FLDS analogy is that the Melchizedek Priesthood is the father; the (LDS) Church is a separate organization, the mother. Mother divorced herself from Father.

    Obviously (in Mormon male/female terms), the woman is nothing without the man.

  344. woooiii remember that madman from the early days of flds blogging who believed he was such a mucketymuchduduhat?

  345. There were several that sort of match that description, Granny.. mucketymuchduduhat is not specific enough for me to come up with a name. I do remember being told once on Brooke’s blog that no one was interested in my opinion because I was 1) female and 2) a gentile.

  346. He used so many names I’ve forgotten, think mainly John something or other, even went to SLC to take over LDS?

  347. Oh, John Lester, gemmaker, etc. Haven’t heard from him in awhile. It’s been nice.

  348. I’d asked about John Lester a while back, someone sent me a link to his [pyramid?] investment web site…or something. It is nice to have him occupied elsewhere. He was annoying as all get out some times.

  349. good riddance

  350. Yes. In fact, I’m pretty sure he was the one who told me to sit down and shut up, woman. You know, I find it hard to believe that Brooke allowed that on her blog. If I were running a blog, I wouldn’t let people verbally abuse each other. Either shut the blog down or actually monitor it.

  351. I saw him say that during a discussion with some FLDS on his blog or t’other. He told the lot of them to “sit down and shut up” and since it was HIS blog, as I remember, it stood- but now he has shut it down.

    The FLDS dont like his kind. He was a 40 yr old virgin and wanted bisexual wives, and started a MLM church Angry White Men.

    LMAO

  352. You know, I find it hard to believe that Brooke allowed that on her blog. If I were running a blog, I wouldn’t let people verbally abuse each other. Either shut the blog down or actually monitor it.

    —————————————

    She let one of her followers call Carolyn Jessop a “whore” which is libel, I’m surprised the Trib allowed it.

  353. So LDS is about 75 years behind the RLDS on it’s quest to align itself with mainstream Christianity? They are about halfway between FLDS and RLDS.

  354. A Vermonter?

  355. That’s right.

  356. I believe that in 50 years, mainstream LDS will practically be another Protestant denomination their doctrinal shifts are progressing.
    You can virtually count on it.

  357. O I think history won’t be forgotten. But I could be wrong.

  358. Youngs and Smiths came out of VT and a whole buncha my other ancestors. I even still have a few friends up that way. I’d think the weather might be only for visiting.

  359. Granny, do you know the story of my kin James & Sarah Mulholland? I come from the bunch that went up north not west. Yet she was also sealed to JS..?

  360. Too much rain in Guatemala this year, Lori’s confirmed with dengue fever.

  361. O gee sisu no I don’t, at least not this time of the morning those names don’t ring a bell. They were in the bunch spread around up at winter quarters, or ??

  362. James was a scribe JS in 1838-9; Sarah was a Scott who’s sister Ann hid the BOM in her petticoat before crossing the big river. Street in Nauvoo named for him after he died at Emma’s house. The baby grew up to be a gentile though. But whose baby really??

  363. Why are you wondering whose baby it was ?

  364. Historians are in conflict about who was or was not a spiritual wife of JS, some of that has been soled by DNA analysis of the current living descendants.

  365. I read about that. Supposedly Joseph Smith had many spiritual wives, but DNA evidence suggests that he did not sire children by any of them – with the exception of maybe the first, named Fanny?
    I will look for the reference.

  366. No, BiB, I think it’s the other way around. There was a lot of denial about his shenanigans, but DNA evidence is proving that he had children with other people’s wives.

  367. Reportedly the families were “especially close,” James was kept busy writing the First Vision and the baby was born after he died the 1st summer in Nauvoo. Sarah was sealed in the brand new temple yet only one of the clan went west, something happened to their faith at that point.

  368. http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/DNA.htm

    Here you go. Some have been confirmed, some denied and some died in infancy leaving no heirs.

  369. I hope Lori gets well soon!

  370. Found this in Wikipedia :
    Joseph Smith, Jr. publicly condemned polygamy.[1][2][3][4] However, the predominant view among historians is that Smith both taught and practiced polygamy and had several wives sealed to him, but never lived as man and wife with any of them except his first wife, Emma. Though there were allegations of paternity in some of these alleged polygamous marriages, no children have ever been proven to be Smith’s. There is ongoing genetic research to determine if any of the alleged children have Smith’s genetic markers, but all tests have been negative.[5][6][7]
    No children of Smith’s alleged polygamous relationships has been shown, to a scholarly consensus, to have been Smith’s genetic offspring.

    See it here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_Joseph_Smith,_Jr.

  371. BiB, You realize that wiki isn’t exactly the end all of research?

    I believe the “ongoing” genetic research I linked to proved that he did have children by some of these women. Problems in the genetic testing, besides the obvious lapse of 150 years or so, is that testing paternity through the descendants of girl children is more complex and expensive. Also, several of those claimed were still born or died in infancy. There’s also the obvious, well documented fact that Emma threw Fanny (his first “plural wife”) out of her house because she was pregnant by Joseph and yet for some reason, no one counts that child as one of Joseph’s officially even though Emma and Fanny definitely believed it to be.

  372. BiB, You realize that wiki isn’t exactly the end all of research?

    Absolutely !

  373. I think the Smith’s that went west with Brigham Young were primarily Hyrum’s widow and her children. I am not aware that any of Joseph’s children went west. His son became the leader of the RLDS church, his widow stayed in the midwest and remarried.

  374. Actually, anon4now, I read the links (both your link and the link they went to) and the second link indicated that those men were NOT a DNA match to Joseph Smith. If you look at the links provided from the page you directed us to, they go to a Deseret News story, which is a pretty good sign right there that there is no evidence linking those men to Joseph Smith. In fact, the story was pretty amusing, implying that Joseph Smith only used a “seer stone” because his father wanted him to and things like that. lol!

    I’ve read up on the Joseph Smith’s children research as often as I can find it and so far nothing I’ve read has proven he’s had any illegitimate children (more’s the pity).

  375. OOOPs. Wrong link. Multitasking. Sorry.

    http://www.wivesofjosephsmith.org/DNA.htm

    Read all the way through to the bottom. It seems as if, instead of editing this page, they just kept adding to it at the bottom, so some of the lower info contradicts the higher, as it is more recent.

  376. No, you’re right, I’m reading them wrong. Never mind.

  377. Why do they keep delaying all these trials ? My own theory is that the FLDS has run out of money, and they are saving what little cash they have left to defend the UEP and Warren.
    What say you all ?

  378. Anon du Jour: Why do they keep delaying all these trials ? My own theory is that the FLDS has run out of money, and they are saving what little cash they have left to defend the UEP and Warren.
    What say you all ?
    ————————

    Well, I’m certainly no expert, but since every thing an attorney does costs money, filing for delays and whatnot would cost money too.

    I think they’re just about at then end of their rope with the UEP, but they’re probably going to throw every penny they can find towards Warren’s defense. I bet they’ve still got millions stashed away somewhere.

  379. Anon Du Jour,
    I’m not an expert, but I believe that the stall and delay tactics used by the flds is second nature to them. I think they generally want to be uncooperative because they don’t really recognize the authority of secular law. Also, I think they’ve learned that they can get away with a lot of bad behavior by just being stubborn and wearing people down.

    As far as money goes, I doubt they’re down and out. I think they have lots of money. I think I read something about them having bought more land around yfz lately.

  380. Yes, I agree with rnr, it’s about wearing down the opposition with counter suits, appeals, delays, etc. In the meantime, a few folks die of old age without consequences, more babies are born to more young girls, more settlements are built in Texas, etc.

  381. I agree with rnr as far as that goes, plus maybe Warren cut off their money spigot.

  382. I too agree with rnr, and would add that maybe Warren shut off the money spigot.

  383. I think that they are delaying as well, and maybe checking the coffers to make sure that Warren and the UEP have enough

  384. LeRoy is really pleading for indignent status while the flds try a hail Mary pass for the UEP. It seems to me that thjey may be running low on money for lawyers.

  385. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/10/16/report-wife-mumbai-terror-plotter-warned-feds-husbands-extremist-links/

    Seems that this wife who did not consent to her husband’s polygamous relationship in Pakistan, and warned others in advance of his extremism

  386. Crazy. I’d like to see more proactive action taken state-side. Almost seems like they are being ignored.

    “We get a half dozen leads a day” but heck they arent arresting many.

  387. None of the last 4 articles on the SLT are Brooke Adam’s. wonder what is up with that?

  388. Maybe Willie has nothing good to feed her?

  389. Could be they sent her to journalism school.

  390. None of the last 4 articles on the SLT are Brooke Adam’s. wonder what is up with that?

    ————————

    I don’t know, I hope she is OK, I don’ wish her any ill – but IMO the articles are more balanced now.

  391. Pretty much MIA for quite some time. Add to that the intermittent flicker of her blog, and only one or two articles ever listed on the “polygamy” section, and it adds up to a wounded story line.


  392. and you think this is just in the “crick”
    I don’t know if this has ever been posted..but well worth re watching

  393. btrl8thnvr – thanks for the link, and please note that a 9 yr old died after having intercourse with her “husband” for the first time earlier this year.

  394. Amazing this kind of stuff happens in the States too.

    Get some crazy Cult Kooks around children, and look what happens!

  395. Consider the recent death of the 9 yr old after having intercourse for the first time with her husband – or the recent death of the 12 yr old in labor. These type of tragedies occur all too often in third world countries.
    These medical disasters fly in the face of those individuals who claim that it is godly, Biblical, or even righteous for a young pre-teenage girl to get married or have children.

  396. Amen to your posts S and Chaps.

  397. I join the chorus of Amen to S and Chaps.

  398. How sad, how sickening.

  399. That bozo Warren is still trying to avoid extradition to Texas. He really does not want to pay the piper. http://www.kcsg.com

  400. butbutbut here in Texas we want to see Warren dancing to Cotton Eyed Joe!

  401. Here’s another report on Warren Jeffs lawyers trying to wiggle out of extradition. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=12868388

    IMO there claim that Jeffs are violated by extradition are only so much hogwash, if the Utah courts refuse extradition, one can be sure Texas will move to the federal courts, where it won’t matter what any Utah state court rules, federal law trumps. The only good thing is that it racks up more billable hours, the lawyers continue to bleed the FLDS beast

  402. Sad but true, their new strategy of bleeding their own beast

  403. BAIL? For someone who was on the FBI’s most wanted list?

    The way I read that is that his lawyers are trying to get Utah to let him out of jail for 15 minutes so he can make a run for the border and never go to Texas. I’m assuming they will fail, but hey, I’ve been surprised before.

  404. Has anyone ever broken down how many ‘wives’ WSJ really has? How many children? By that I do not mean the children he inherited from his fathers wives or other men he threw out.
    Who is supporting them right now? Are they working?
    Just curious.

  405. Appears that ole Warren Jeffs is crying in his coffee about all of us Texans being part of a “Conspiracy”, poor Warren, guess he didn’t pay attention to “Don’t mess with Texas”

    Read article: http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50495442-76/defense-jeffs-utah-texas.html.csp

    Appears the Trib has a new person writing the polig stories, guess Brooke is MIA.

  406. A Texan, I think his main error was documenting every darned crime he committed in dictations and even multi media.

  407. I somehow bet he wisht he hadn’t. 😉

  408. This song is for you Warren Jeffs, remember as the song says, it’s a crime to mess with Texas!

  409. And yes the FLDS brought their trash to Texas, what a crime.

  410. The various FLDS and other related fundie groups have spread with varying success to Utah, Arizona, CA, Mexico, Canada, Colorado, South Dakota, Texas, Idaho and Montana. Oregon too I think. Oh and Nevada.

  411. Nice.

  412. Utah County prosecutors to meet Tuesday to discuss bigamy case involving Lehi TV family

    LEHI — The TLC reality show “Sister Wives” aired its season finale Sunday night. And while the series season is over, the fallout keeps coming.

    Prosecutors with the Utah County Attorney’s Office are scheduled to meet with Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff Tuesday to discuss potential bigamy charges against the Lehi family.

    Before “Sister Wives” hit the airwaves, the show’s producers called Shurtleff’s office and inquired how often polygamy cases are prosecuted in the state. Spokesman Paul Murphy said he told them polygamy is against the law, but that the attorney general’s office doesn’t have the resources to prosecute every case. It focuses on polygamists who are also committing other crimes.

    Read more –
    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700074613/Utah-County-prosecutors-to-meet-Tuesday-to-discuss-bigamy-case-involving-Lehi-TV-family.html

  413. Received an interesting email from
    a former Aub member . She Knew the browns.
    Her comment was read between the lines- -they are not. Happy campers

  414. I read an article yesterday, online, by Susan Ray Schmidt [LeBaron] on her take on the “Sister-wives” show. She then wrote what it’s like to be a sisterwife…..it wasn’t a pretty picture,as E texas has also attested too. I haven’t read many good comments [other than the usual childish male comments]. Most people seem to feel its another useless TV show.
    Now we’ll see what legal ramifications happen from it.

  415. I was going to mention that same article mc1199
    it is a very powerful commentary on it

  416. mc1199, or hhg… do you have a link to share?

  417. It was an article on AOL. I’ll try and find it.

  418. Well, I have it here, but my work computer wont allow me to link it….so, I’ll try and do it in clumps…if Flds Admin doesn’t mind. It’s titled:
    Escape From Polygamy — A Former Sister-Wife Shares Why She Left
    I was watching “Sister Wives” on TV. I placed the apple I’d been munching on the lamp table and leaned forward in my chair, thoughtfully staring at my flat-screen. The blue eyes of the woman looking into the camera appeared honest and sincere. Her voice was friendly and steady as she explained to her TV show audience that she, Janelle, was wife number two in her polygamous family.

    Her husband, Kody, and her sister-wives, Meri and Christine, all lived together in one huge home right in Salt Lake City. Their 12 children ate and romped together. The women valued one another and wouldn’t know what to do without the amazing bond that knit them all together as a family unit. They shared various family tasks, and their caring and support of each other was inspirational …

    The camera panned from one woman to the next and all smiled and nodded in agreement. Seated in the middle was Kody, dashing Kody, with his irresistible smile and his feathered hair curling long over his collar. He gave a quick squeeze to Janelle, seated on his left, as his fingers twined with Meri’s, seated on his right.

    “Sister Wives.” My jaw clenched. Oh, yes, the daily mechanics of polygamy they were choosing to display were somewhat on target. But … really? Did they think the skin-deep details — whose turn it was to do laundry; which wife was pregnant; the rotating, nocturnal visits of Kissing Kody to his wives — was going to satisfy intelligent viewers?

    What about the real issues in polygamy? What about the truth? Closing my eyes, my thoughts raced back to the blond, blue-eyed girl I used to be — the child who had become a sister-wife. So many years had passed since …

  419. My Wedding Day
    I can recall my stubborn, 15-year-old brain trying to concentrate on the strange, Bible-sounding words our prophet, Joel LeBaron, was reciting from one of the Mormon scripture books. I took a shaky breath. My heart thumped as I stole a glance at my tall, handsome bridegroom. Then I peeked at Irene, the matronly-looking woman standing next to us. Irene’s usually friendly blue eyes appeared narrow and haunted, but her pale lips still held onto the barest hint of a smile as the prophet recited the final words of the marriage ceremony.

    My hands were trembling. I wanted desperately to experience joy during my wedding but I couldn’t mistake Irene’s misery, and I could feel the shadow her sadness cast. I glanced at her again. I’d seen enough of polygamy in my short life to be well aware of the heartache plural wives lived with. But we had no choice. Polygamy was required. God had ordered all followers of Joseph Smith to live this way. If we wanted to go to the highest degree of heaven, which we all did, of course, we lived in polygamy and learned to love our sister wives.

    I looked quickly back at Verlan. His aqua-blue eyes snapped with excitement. Tonight, 38-year-old Verlan, the brother of our prophet, was adding me to his eternal family kingdom. He motioned to Irene, and she dutifully picked up my hand and placed it in her husband’s. Then she stepped back a bit as the groom moved in to kiss his new bride. Forever, throughout this life and eternity, no matter how many wives Verlan took, I would be number six.

    The roomful of wedding guests pushed forward to hug us and wish us well. Tonight I would be leaving them and Colonia LeBaron, our small polygamous community in Chihuahua, Mexico. I’d grown up here, and the thought of leaving the only life I’d ever known terrified me. However, it had to be done. I was part of a new family now. I barely knew Verlan, but he was a wonderful, godly man and a leader in our church. He would be taking me back to his large home in Baja, Calif., where four more wives waited. I would be a stranger to his family. I wondered, How would they accept me? Would his 24 kids like me?

  420. The annoying ringing of my cell phone sitting on the lamp table interrupted my journey down memory lane. I turned the TV volume down and answered the call. It was Lance, my fifth child. He needed me to babysit tomorrow afternoon. I made short work of the call and turned the TV volume back up.

    Kody was driving somewhere with Christine. Their fingers were locked snugly together. I watched them for a minute or two, but insistent memories kept stealing my focus. My eyes closed…

    Life As the Sixth Wife
    I pulled the curtain back from the living room window in my small adobe home and stared at the dirt road winding down the little hill into Los Molinos. In the three years I’d been married to Verlan, this was the longest he’d ever been away. How many times in the past four months had I stood here, pretending his silver pickup was on that road headed back to me? Dust would billow high as he drew closer and entered the colony. He would stop at Lucy’s place first, like he always did. He would unload mountains of supplies into the shed and tell the family there hello. Then he’d stop at three more wives’ homes. Just before coming to see me, he would go to Lillie’s house.

    Lillie. The thought of my latest sister wife was like a dull knife in my chest. Lillie, the laughing girl with the snapping, cornflower-blue eyes and brown hair framing her slender face. Blinking rapidly, I dropped the curtain into place. I picked my toddler up and, balancing him on my hip next to my large, pregnant tummy, hauled him back to his highchair. Sitting down between him and my 2-year-old daughter, I wiped my eyes and began spooning potato soup into his mouth. “You have to stop this, Susan,” I whispered. “Think about something else. You can’t hate her forever. You’re supposed to love her.”

    How? How could I live with the knowledge that my husband loved her? Why was it so different with her than with the others — so much worse? I passionately loved my husband. I needed him. My heart and body cried out for him and, God forgive me, I wanted him for myself. Each time he looked at Lillie in my presence, or touched her hand, or even mentioned her name, fresh waves of torment washed deep into my soul. The thought of her slender body sleeping in his arms filled my nights with torture. Through the years I’d learned to block out thoughts of Verlan making love with his other wives, but Lillie … I just couldn’t seem to her block out. My traitorous imagination taunted me with graphic images of them together. What was I to do? How long could I live like this? Why wasn’t God helping me deal with my jealousy?

    “Heavenly Father! Please help me,” I whispered. Dropping my head onto the table next to my son’s empty bowl, I sobbed softly.

  421. Through the past three years of living with Verlan’s family, life had been so much harder than I’d ever imagined. Verlan was constantly gone. He worked in Las Vegas much of the time and made the long trip home every few weekends to see his families. As a leader in the church, his duties also demanded that he be out in the mission field. The rare occasion when he was home however, was the hardest to bear. Although he tried to be considerate and treat his wives fairly, without question his first wife was his partner and confidante. Although this bothered me, it was understandable. She had been with him much longer than the rest of us, and he relied on her to take care of the family issues while he was away. My jealousy at his dependence on her was minor when compared to watching his arm slide around another wife’s waist. This brought an aching lump of torment into my throat and chest. Observing him pull her toward her bedroom sent me scurrying into my own where I could smother my sobs into my pillow.

    At Home With Our 40 Kids
    Physically, our living conditions were beyond sparse. Verlan’s entire family wore Salvation Army discards. There was never enough money to pay for heating fuel, so we lived in sweaters, even inside the house, to ward off the icy Pacific wind. We ate beans and cornmeal mush and coarse-ground wheat bread with no butter. Verlan’s first wife worked as a teacher in San Diego and sent her small earnings home to help support the rest of us. Until I had my first baby, I wasn’t given a single peso to spend on my personal needs.

    Emotionally, my heart felt battered. Although the other wives treated me civilly and we worked well enough together at the never-ending duties required to take care of our growing family, my arms and soul ached for the sacred intimacy that only my husband could give me.

    During the past two years, Verlan had constructed separate adobe homes for each wife. He married Lillie, and now he was busily courting another teenage girl named Kim. Three babies were being born into our family on average each year. Indeed, Verlan was adding many new jewels to his eternal crown. There were over 40 children in our family now — 40 kids who hardly knew their own father. Children who needed a relationship with him in the worst way. Unfortunately, Verlan never had time to spend with them.

    One of the hardest things for me to witness was the loneliness and despair in the eyes of Verlan’s other wives. They were kind and good women, and they were suffering just as I was. They needed him, too. They loved him, too.

    Why was it fair that God loved His sons so much more than his daughters? Why was it OK with Him that they have so many wives to desire them, to need them, to love them and have sex with them? We patiently waited our turn, saving our very best love, our best food, and our complete devotion for our husbands. I couldn’t reconcile in my mind a loving God would be so unfair to His children.

    [1 more clump and we’re done!]

  422. Final installment!!
    Born Mormon: How It All Began
    The prophet Joseph Smith taught that all those who had the “law of polygamy” revealed to them had to obey it, or they would be damned. This meant me too. I’d read the revelation; if we were faithful and willing to live it, our men would become gods in heaven. In the highest heaven our men would have a great time, planning and creating their own worlds. And what of the women? The best we could hope for as a reward for our devotion and submissiveness to our husbands was to become their goddesses. Our wombs would bear their offspring so that they could populate their own worlds. I finally realized that according to my religion, my major purpose here on Earth and for all eternity was to reproduce! I would have infinity of children! I would be eternally pregnant. I would share my husband’s affection with all the wives he had now, and any he chose to marry in the future, forever. What kind of paradise was THAT?

    My deepest desire as a woman was to be loved. My heart and my body cried out for companionship, friendship, an understanding touch, warmth, for passion from a man that was meant for only me. Was it wrong of me to want the exclusive love of a man? I wanted someone who adored me, someone who was mine. “Lord, help me.” I whispered again. “Please guide me; I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to be disobedient or go to hell, but I can’t live this way.” Everything within me told me this was wrong …

    Opening my eyes, I picked up my brown-tinged apple, took a bite, and glanced at the television screen. On “Sister Wives,” the credits were running, and Kody was waving in the background. Janelle’s pregnant body was bent over, picking up one of the kids. She smiled and waved. A commercial commenced.

    The memories of my past life were softer now, but seeing the superficiality of this show troubled me. Was this family advocating polygamy as an alternative lifestyle for America? I couldn’t help but wonder how much of this was drama and how much was authentic. Drama pays well … and truth sometimes takes a back seat to what is profitable in the entertainment industry.

    Did Kody fully understand that he was robbing not only himself, but his wives, of the beautiful intimacy and bonding and trust God originally intended for marriage? It saddens me to see how easily we replace the deep intimacies, of monogamous marriage, strengthened by the tides of commitment as life sends waves of alternating joy and tribulation into our lives — for a little variety.

    When I Finally Got Out
    I left Verlan and Mexico in 1976, eight years and five children into our marriage — and three years after I knew something was wrong. I couldn’t bear the thought of my precious children being subjected to the heartache of the people I saw all around me. Leaving my LeBaron family and my friends and siblings behind was the most difficult decision of my life.

    During my years of being a part of Verlan’s family, I learned to care deeply for his wives. I learned to love Lillie. These were wonderful, caring women who deserved to find joy and passion, and to be secure in the love of their husbands. Most of them to this day don’t know what they’re missing. Sadly, the confusion and hopelessness of polygamy still goes on in our country.

    I could tell them. For 29 years, I knew the love of a wonderful, Christian man. He adored me and raised Verlan’s children as his own; children who today know Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life. I lost him suddenly in the summer of 2008. I miss him more than words can say. He gave me security and friendship and the intimacy that is possible only in marriage as God ordained it in the beginning. But I’m not alone. I have my kids and my grandkids. And I have the most valuable thing of all, the real One I was missing throughout my life in polygamy: Jesus.

    Today, Susan Ray Schmidt resides in southern Idaho. She is the mother of seven children and has 14 grandchildren. She is the author of “Favorite Wife: Escape From Polygamy”, published by Lyon’s Press in 2008. She is also featured in the documentary “Lifting the Veil of Polygamy,” produced by Sourceflix, and available here. She spends much of her time as a guest speaker at various events and she has given lectures on polygamy at several universities. She also works with Sourceflix in the distribution of the documentary videos created and produced by Joel Kramer. She is an ardent supporter of A Shield and Refuge Ministry out of Salt Lake City, a program created to assist and support refugees escaping from polygamy.

  423. Admin– if I broke any rules by long posts, I apologize!! Feel free to chastise. 🙂 🙂 🙂

  424. Thanks mc1199!

  425. Irene, mentioned above, also wrote a book. How interesting that wives of the same man tell their stories.

    Irene described a plural life of great poverty, since there was not enough money to support all the wives and children. She finally left, remarried and became a born again Christian.

  426. I’ve read both their books– several of Irene’s. I’m pretty sure they are the ones that were in a mud hell-hole in Nicaraugua [?], or some place, because Verlan wanted to start a mission/community there. The abject poverty and lonliness they spoke of. What an unhappy life to keep a husband/prophet happy! Sorry, NOT ME!!!!!

  427. I think it’s the author you should apologize to. But thanks, anyway.

  428. mc1199, thank you !

  429. OOOO what a shame! The computers won’t be returned to the FLDS because the misappropriation of funds and fraud investigation of PUBLIC TAXPAYER DOLLARS is still going on.

    See what happens when volunteer firemen buy baby clothes and exotic chocolates with PUBLIC TAXPAYER DOLLARS?

    Oh and weren’t there about $11,000 spent buying sewing machines? Or did the PUBLIC Twin City Water Company buy the Berninas?

    Silly me, I just can’t keep the FLDS fraud of PUBLIC TAXPAYER DOLLARS straight.

    So many PUBLIC cash cows, so many embezzlers!

    From the Mohave Daily News:
    Colorado City denied return of seized items
    http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2010/10/19/news/local/doc4cbd3497182d4068154816.txt

  430. Here’s the link to Susan Ray Schmidt’s story – Susan is a remarkable survivor of polygamy abuse –

    http://www.lemondrop.com/2010/10/19/escape-from-polygamy-a-former-sister-wife-shares-why-she-left/

  431. YIPEE there is someone in Mohave County who sees through the FLDS’ BS. This Superior Court Commissioner Derek Carlisle is the man who denied the FLDS the return of the computer hard drives.

    WAY TO GO Commissioner Carlisle. PLEASE continue to keep them honest, as best you can.

    THANK YOUUUUU!

  432. From the Mohave Daily News article above
    Carlisle also denied the appointment of a special master, an unbiased third party who would review data from the seized computers. A Utah judge also denied returning the items seized in Hildale but did appoint a special master to review information on the computers, Deputy Mohave County Attorney James Schoppman said.

    Does anyone know who the Utah judge is on this case?

  433. I wouldn’t mind having a little peek-e-boo at the info on the hard drivs? Could be very enlightening!

  434. Here is a link to an interview with Susan Ray Schmidt – in this interview, she addresses the issue of Blood Atonement :

    http://whatloveisthis.tv/ep239.htm

  435. thanks for the link on the latest legal with respect to the raid on the fire department

  436. Polygamy in Bahrain : http://thewip.net/contributors/2010/10/legal_and_social_acceptance_of.html

  437. I have trouble watching the “what love is this” shows. The woman takes so darned long to make any kind of point. And her voice drones; I need toothpicks to keep my eyes open. Which is a shame because it is a good resource.

  438. If you feel as I do, you can skip to about 8 minutes to get the beginning of the interview.

  439. This lady belongs to the Centennial Park group. See how painful polygamy is for her –
    http://www.lemondrop.com/2010/10/18/sister-wives-sister-wife-embraces-polygamy-marries-sister-s-husband/

  440. This is a bit off the subject of the FLDS and Warren Jeffs, found this link for a magazine featuring LDS temples and reasons the LDS build them, it’s worth a look just for the photos of the exteriors and interiors of LDS temples.

    http://lds.org/churchmagazines/EN_2010_10___09210_000_000.pdf

  441. Doesn’t sound like these statements are going to help the FLDS much in the Canada case

    http://www.vancouversun.com/opinion/Fundamentalists+play+persecution+card+statements+court/3703879/story.html

  442. This was a real gem from that link:

    “In another affidavit, a woman identified as Witness No. 2 complains that Revenue Canada has cut back child-tax benefits to some plural wives. It says they are living common-law and must claim the child’s father’s income, regardless of whether others are already claiming it.

    “This has been a real hardship,” she says.

    In fundamentalist Mormon doctrine, unlike in the Koran, there is no requirement that men be financially able to support all of their wives and children. There is also no limit on the number of wives fundamentalist Mormon men can have.

  443. “Oler explains that the FLDS belief is that God decides who marries whom. God tells the prophet, who relays the message to the bride and groom.”

    What has God been telling Warren lately?

  444. I think the author of that article has them figured out.

    Oler says he is not aware of any case where a woman declared a prophecy for a particular man and that was not honored. Seems to me I have read such stories, but I can’t think of them right now.

  445. Ross. Chatwin comes to mind- his wife had a revelation and ross ended up ex-ed

  446. I think the way Oler has said it is misleading, perhaps deliberately so. He’s saying that there is an official route for women to put in their request. But that doesn’t address girls who 1) have a boyfriend on their own and/or 2) reject the choice of a man they are given. It’s a false “choice”. There is an example of that in the Sons of Perdition movie in which a girl is very aggressively pressured by her family.

  447. See the what love is this? Video by the dutsons.
    she was not permitted to marry a man she loved who fathered her child.

  448. So God tells the prophet who marries who? LOL thats Piffle,, pure Piffle!!! 🙂

  449. Oler is lying. Ex – FLDS member Mary Mackert was in love with someone her own age, and she was instructed by the Prophet to marry a man in his fifties when she was only 17.
    Oler is a leader who has instructed members of his group that boys should treat girls as if they were “poisonous snakes”
    This has been well documented.
    How can a teenage girl freely choose a spouse from her peer group if her male peers treat her as if she is poison ?

  450. Pakistani Taliban members stone a woman for the crime of being seen with a man

    http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/2627.htm

  451. Here’s what’s going on in another polygamy related trial in Utah:

    http://www.deseretnews.com/media/pdf/237167.pdf

    In this case that has been on going since 2003, so it appears that there is history of foot dragging on polygamy related trails in Utah. Makes one wonder how long the Utah courts will drag out Warren Jeffs extradition to Texas.

  452. Here’s more on judge refusing to grant change of venue in Mitchell polygamy kidnapping trial. The defense lawyers aren’t having a great day, good IMO

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50518290-76/mitchell-trial-case-judge.html.csp

    From article, the motive for the crime: “They were arrested in March 2003 while walking in Sandy with the girl, whom investigators say Mitchell wanted to make his plural wife.”

    And another article: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700075418/Judge-Brian-David-Mitchell-will-get-fair-and-impartial-jury-trial-in-Salt-Lake-City.html

  453. Dutson case will start Tuesday October 26 in San Angelo.

  454. Yes anon is correct the trial is being moved to San Angelo, TX.

    Here’s news article on reason for move to San Angelo.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/oct/22/trial-of-flds-member-will-move/

    The defense lawyers were not happy with move, they suggest Lubbock or Austin. As a said in previous post, The defense lawyers aren’t having a great day, good IMO.

  455. I’m not sure that Brandon’s strategy of pissing the Judge off before the trial even starts is really a good one, if I were his client I’d really want to rethink my idea of hiring him.

  456. Can we have a new open thread ?

  457. Open Discussion Thread #41 is now open

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