Open Discussion #37

Continued from Open Discussion #36

A pool photo from the Accomplice to Rape Trial of Warren Jeffs.


~ by FLDS TEXAS on September 9, 2010.

456 Responses to “Open Discussion #37”

  1. Good morning.

  2. Good morning. 🙂

  3. Good morning, FLDS Texas!

  4. Good morning from the midwest. Bright and sunny today.

  5. Good morning and it’s not raining in my part of Texas. But it could, later?

  6. No hurricane, Toad?


  8. ‘airmeen has moved on up north

  9. Ain’t nobody got one in response to wally’s “he’s a little thin, a little thin.. he could use some fattening up..”….????…. Sometimes seems like Mad magazine’s best old writers, long gone, are still at work

  10. All the news stories are in agreement with Ron in Houston that it is just a matter of time before warren is sent to Texas. Also, that the grounds for appealing the extradirtion are very narrow. I am anxious for that to happen. The pro flds crowd will have a hissy fit.

  11. I looked at the links of the ksl vids with wee willie and heidi foster..I’m so touched! to thank that we here in this great nation have such moving and loyal patriots and stalWARTs as this… to go right to the mat for the poor lil profit man’s rights…uh, those he dictated to and lorded over never had any, did they? not in his view

  12. oh, dear, I meant to say, “to THINK that we here in this great nation..” so sorry- I was still wiping the tears away, brought on by the MOVING words of heidi and willie

  13. I understood your gritchin, gretchen.

  14. Here’s another polygamist trial that has been going on for 7 years, almost a decade, and the only reason it’s going to trial is that the feds stepped in, the Utah state courts have delayed and put off on this case for years. And it will embarrass Utah LE IMO.

    The trail of Brain Mitchell is going to jury selection, see news article:

  15. The Eldorado Success website reported that the grand jury meeting on YFZ continues, which raises question, who will be indicted, perhaps more felonious priesthood holders, or perhaps the woman for bigamy, child abuse? Of course it maybe YFZ activities may violate state racketeering laws, could this lead to organized crime charges, which would allow State of Texas to seize assets, such as YFZ itself. Interesting, would like to be fly on the wall listening in on grand jury.

  16. I know I know, that Grand Jury has my curiosity.

  17. The post says it was meeting on Thursday, August 26. If it’s meeting again, it won’t be until around Sept 26th.

  18. Aside from Wendall Merrill and Willie, who were the other flds in the courtroom for WSJ’s extradition hearing?

  19. The wheels of justice might be grinding slowly, but they are grinding.
    I wonder if the people in Utah really want to see WJS get free, but rather have Texas do the honors of putting him behind jail bars.

  20. Nobody I know in Utah wants that turkey loose, not even his so called followers.

    Warren would likely clean house again and rip the group a new one.

  21. Chaps,
    Can’t agree with you more on this.
    If he is ever released from prison, Warren Jeffs will even the score with any of his followers whom he even thinks was disloyal to him.
    Count on it.
    That is why he must never see the outside of a jail.
    He is a sociopath.

  22. If I understand Warren’s ways correctly, I don’t think it matters one whit if he’s loose or not; he still has the same power over his so called followers whether he’s behind bars or not. He can rip the group a new one anytime he wants.

  23. I agree E Texas, he’s still controlling them, but he’s having to do it by taking someone else’s word for what’s going on. If he were on the scene, I truly believe things would be much worse for the followers. I shudder to think what plans he has for Emack and Lehi’s wives, given that those 2 men said they were guilty of marrying underage girls.

  24. Emack has daughters who are 11, 9 and 6 and Lehi has daughters who are 8 and 3. Can you see a new low in marriage age coming on?

  25. Jerom, I’m not sure who the others are. Non look familiar from photos at the ranch. Probably Crickers.

  26. I think Warren is controlling things behind the scenes based on heresay from his lieutenants, like an imprisoned mafia don – but I believe that if he was out of jail, it would be much worse – because he would be emboldened due to his release.
    That is why Warren Jeffs must never get out of prison – and while he is in prison, he should not be harmed in any way as this would make him a martyr.

  27. Continuing in his current prolific streak, Ron has created another blog. Here it is….

  28. Texan: Of course it maybe YFZ activities may violate state racketeering laws, could this lead to organized crime charges, which would allow State of Texas to seize assets, such as YFZ itself.


    The Aryan Nations alleged “Christian” church was sued into bankruptcy by the Southern Poverty Law Center. Their former compound in Hayden Lake, Idaho, is now a peace park . . . so there’s always hope.

  29. I found this essay written by a polygamist wife interesting ….

  30. Wow catwhisperer… that’s a well-written essay and entertaining if not a bit painful to read.

    But it hardly speaks to my own experience at all. It certainly bears no resemblance to an FLDS union. In the first place, we would never have been caught dead in a bar let alone listening to jukebox music – nor all gone to a library together.

    Claire is absolutely right about one thing though: “Divorce, of course, is out of the question.”

  31. e: I would dearly love to read your version of the link
    Do you think you could translate it to the FLDS version?

  32. In the photo #2 from the SL Trib – – the guy on the left in the blue shirt is Guy Nielson –

    On the back row on the left is Carlene Cannon (a member of the Kingstons), Gary Batchelor (Mary’s husband), and Heidi Foster.

    I read articles on the link S posted from and one said that Heidi Foster had to sever her ties with the Kingstons in order to regain custody of her children. So now she is publicly speaking out about supporting Warren? And not hiding the fact that she is part of the Kingstons? WTF? I wonder if CPS will check into that because it appears to me that she may be in violation of her court order.

  33. Anonymous at 11:44 : maybe someone should notify CPS regarding Ms. Foster… just a thought there.

  34. East,
    Translate the polygamist essay I posted into FLDS terms, if you have the opportunity .. I am sure that everyone would enjoy reading it.

  35. I found this essay written by a polygamist wife interesting ….


    How, somebody could make a TV show out of that. Oh wait, they already did – Big Love.

    Except of course, the FLDS wives would not be allowed to go to a bar, drink alcohol,listen to popular music, or read any books available in a public library.

  36. What phone number or address should be used to report Ms. Heidi Foster to CPS ? Can someone post ?

  37. I just scanned through bloodshot’s, i mean eyeshot’s plyg problems essay. C’mon, girl! you ain’t no kin o’ mine, complainin like that while sonny boy is busy “elevatin” ya and all.. now look, all ye gots ta do is go grab some hot and heavy Brigham Young opinions on the whole darn thing and ye’ll be right as rain. Ya know, “rain,” them thar drops o’ water that seem like they’s falling outta the sky now and then? The stuff you haven’t figured out how ta git in out of???

  38. Yeah, gretchen, I’m with you. It’s not a big stretch of my imagination to think of one man and two women. In fact, there are probably a rare few here and there for whom that would work fine. It’s possible that if I were in a cult and had been raised that way, I might try three to one. But at four, I can’t even imagine it. It starts to get to the point where the women are supporting him and he’s just running from one to the other trying to make the most unhappy wife not leave. Really dumb. Makes me despair for my gender, it does.

  39. I was bored and found this on the internet. It’s about “Christian” polygamy in my state of Virginia. Martinsburg is in the Appalachian mountains. The man was in his 50’s and took a 16 year old as his bride in a private ceremony in his church. He blames Eve, says that because of her sin, man rules over women and is like a rooster in a hen house or a bull with a herd of cows. He was arrested, but all charges were dropped.

  40. Ooops. Left off the link.

    Here’s another that says he married his first wife when she was 15, also.

  41. Here’s an interview with the guy:…/34283329001

  42. Shocking stuff. This man belongs in prison, where he will be mandated to have psychiatric treatment for his issues. What he is doing out of prison is simply beyond me.

  43. Sex with a 16 year old in Virginia, if consensual, is a class 1 misdemeanor. In short, you’ll get in more trouble if you have a joint in your pocket than if you take a 16 year old as your second wife. Putting together facts about his deceased first wife, she was less than 40 years old when she died, which is unusual.

  44. Nothing more devious than a lying woman, he says. I found some internet chats from former members who think he’s abusive and has a fixation on very young girls. Surprise!

  45. Found this:
    POLYGAMOUS HILLBILLY PREACHER CHARGED. The leader of the Evangelistic Tabernacle in Martinsville was charged with felonious
    seduction & taking indecent liberties with a minor when he “married” a 16-year-old high school junior. Although already
    married, he was not charged with polygamy since he did not legally marry the teenager. Rev. Elwood Gallimore, 42, was also
    charged with performing marriage ceremonies without a license. His favorite topic for sermons is polygamy, citing such
    polygamous biblical characters as David & Solomon. He said the _Bible_ will be his only defense during the trial. Gallimore,
    whose dutiful 42-year-old wife was hospitalized for “nerves” after the second “marriage” was proposed, says he is being
    prosecuted by “jealous” men. A magistrate ordered him to stay away from the teenager on Jan. 19.
    Source: _Washington Post_ 1/21,27,28/92.

    This was in 1992, apparently. Hospitalized for “nerves”. Hmmmmm.

  46. Don’t know what’s up, but Wendell’s Hearing on the Motion to contest the bigamy law that was set for Monday has been cancelled.

  47. Maybe he escaped to Canada or Mexico? joking

  48. …”Gallimore, whose dutiful 42-year-old wife was hospitalized for “nerves” after the second “marriage” was proposed..”

    A very common scenario in Islam.

    Husband introduces the concept of marrying a second wife, or a new wife is brought into the marriage – and the first wife is hospitalized in a psychiatric facility, or she begins outpatient treatment for depression and anxiety disorder.

    Happens all the time in Islamic polygamy – now here we have a report from a so called “Christian” polygynist wife… and of course, there is “the Guidance Center” where fundamentalist Mormon plural wives are sent for psychiatric treatment when they are not “keeping sweet…”

    What is truly humorous is when we hear the refrain “polygyny benefits women”

    How so, when women in polygynous marriage have MUCH higher rates of psychiatric treatment for mental illness than women in monogamous marriages do ?

  49. Just checking in since my post earlier today. On the road today traveling/visiting for several more days in and around the Crickville area. I’ll have little time before I get back to my Texas abode next week to try a decent translation.

    Interesting that you ask, actually. I’m not at all sure I can do it, but I’ll give it a shot.

    The problem is trying to put it into “FLDS terms.” My earlier comments were based on my own personal experience. But, I’m long gone – long before this Warren debacle – and so hardly a good voice to translate such a thing into current FLDS family behaviors.

    Hmmm… Maybe I could spin it into some wicked dark humor. Heh! We’ll see!

  50. Looking forward to your essay East.
    I’m sure it will be a fascinating read.

  51. Betty, I am LMAO about this part of the article you cited:

    Although already married, he was not charged with polygamy since he did not legally marry the teenager.

    Well, duh, polygamists don’t usually legally marry the other women.

  52. E. Texas, if you are visiting the area I hope to see you.

    Maybe we could chat over a Smoothie.

    … phone home.

  53. Some Anon asked a question earlier today how to contact CPS.

    Contact the Utah Child Abuse/Neglect Hotline at (800) 678-9399.

    Davis County – home base of the Davis County Co-op Kingston clan:

    Bountiful Office
    57 West 200 North
    Bountiful, UT 84010-6118
    Phone:(801) 397-7640
    Fax:(801) 299-0197
    24-hour child abuse reporting (801) 544-1298

    Effective August 4, 2008, this office will be open from 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., Monday through Thursday, and will be closed Friday.

    Clearfield Office
    1350 East 1450 South
    Clearfield, UT 84015-1611
    Phone:(801) 776-7300
    Fax:(801) 776-7383
    24-hour on-call child abuse reporting (801) 544-1298

    Effective August 4, 2008, this office will be open from 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m., Monday through Thursday, and will be closed Friday.

    Child and Family Services
    Department of Human Services
    195 North 1950 West
    Salt Lake City, Utah 84116
    Phone: (801) 538-4100
    Fax: (801) 538-3993

  54. thanks Anon 12:34 am – I will be sure to make the call on Monday.

  55. Yes, Anon 12:21, it’s time for a Smoothie chat!

  56. Betty and Chemist,
    It seems that this frequent poster on the Trib board is now writing poetry about you.
    Thought this might interest the two of you :

  57. Why smoothies ? Why not a cappuccino ?

  58. Anon du Jour,

    I am flattered that you find Chemist and I challenging enough to send us messages of your childish hatred. Chemist is always polite, respectful and on topic and I am happy to be counted in his company.

    I hope forguson keeps his day job. He’s no poet.

  59. Betty,
    I didn’t write the poetry … I just discovered it and thought you might be interested. My intent is not hostile. I respect and like both you and chemist. and yes, Forguson is no poet.

  60. Cappuccino? Yes, that works too.

    Birth Date: 11/03/89
    Address : 2050 N CANYON VIEW DR;213, St George, UT
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    21:03:00 09/10/10 Johnson, Steven HCPD

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid

  62. I know who that Dutson kid is, he’s been a little hellion for a while now. I don’t think he’s part of the FLDS anymore.

  63. There once was a lady named Betty
    Who wackos accused of being petty

    Oh forget it, I’m not a poet either

  64. I figured he wasn’t any more, but at one time he was.

  65. RIH,
    maybe you should start ANOTHER blog devoted to your poetry?

  66. AH, I see. You have to go back more than a year to see a poem dedicated to us. He seems to be quoting me, but that does not sound at all like my writing style. I think the whole poem is pretty incoherent. Eh.

  67. One of the things about the silence (or prescripted statements) of the women of the FLDS is that you can imagine them saying or thinking whatever you like. Women who actually talk back are obviously morally inferior.

  68. Ron,
    If you create a poetry blog, I’ll post there.
    I’ve been told by Rebeckah and others that I’m pretty good.

  69. Judge’s quandary: Should polygamists get to testify anonymously?
    By Daphne Bramham, Vancouver Sun September 11, 2010

    It’s a conundrum: How can you tell your side of the story in court, if that story is potentially grounded in a criminal offense?

    That’s the problem faced by members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, the largest polygamous group in North America with 10,000 members, 500 of them living in Bountiful, B.C.

    The FLDS wants some of its members to be witnesses in the constitutional reference case that is scheduled to begin Nov. 22 in B.C. Supreme Court. But it says it will do that only if the witnesses are assured that nothing that they say can be used against them, their relatives or friends in a future prosecution.

    On Friday, the lawyer for the FLDS asked Chief Justice Robert Bauman to allow FLDS members to testify anonymously, behind screens, via teleconferencing or using pseudonyms.

    Robert Wickett amended his motion during the hearing, telling Bauman that it was his intention that the chief justice — and only the chief justice — would be able to see the witnesses and know their real identities.

    Wicket also asked for an order that FLDS witnesses be exempt from answering any questions during crossexamination that would identify them or anyone else who engages in activities that may be determined to be illegal. Without those assurances, FLDS members will not testify. That’s something both Wickett and the court-appointed amicus George Macintosh say is essential to Bauman’s understanding of how polygamy fits within their culture and religion.

    Macintosh noted that the B.C. attorney-general’s lawyers have filed 19 affidavits from former members of the FLDS, which he described collectively as “the story of the disenchanted.” To hear only that side, Macintosh argued, is like listening to only one party in a divorce.

    What the FLDS wants is unprecedented. It’s contrary to the fundamental principle of an open court. It runs counter to the principle that testimony is open to challenge to determine its veracity and establish the witness’s credibility.

    And that’s only part of the reason that the attorneys-general for British Columbia and Canada oppose the FLDS request.

    The lawyers for the two attorneys-general are concerned that if Bauman makes such an order, it may have the effect of shielding criminals from prosecution for offences beyond polygamy.

    The B.C. attorney-general “is unaware of any circumstance in which a court has taken, or held that it could take, steps under its inherent jurisdiction to shield a witness or others from subsequent prosecution, except (conceivably) where such prosecution would occur in violation of human rights norms in foreign countries,” Craig Jones said in his submission on behalf of British Columbia.

    What if, for example, a witness testifies to a child rape or assault, Jones asked.

    “Anonymity would degrade the integrity of this adjudication process,” Deborah Strachan said for the federal A-G’s office. “And it would emasculate the ability of the attorneys-general and allied interested persons in crossexamination.”

    She noted that they might not be able to ask even basic questions such as where a witness was born, or where he or she went to school.

    At it’s most basic, here’s the problem Bauman faces.

    If the FLDS witnesses testify anonymously, they could lie and get away with it. If nobody knows who they are, no one can challenge the accounts of their lives, whether it’s the age at which they married or the number of wives.

    It’s worth noting that among the FLDS teachings is that it’s okay to “lie for the Lord” if it protects the group’s prophet, priesthood and members.

    If Bauman doesn’t hear them, the FLDS and the amicus have already suggested his final decision will be flawed.

    But is it worth setting aside all precedents and common-law traditions for this sect, which has made no secret of breaking the law in the name of religion?

    Is it worth making an exception when the FLDS won’t even provide a glimpse of what insights their witnesses might offer?

    These are tough questions. It’s no wonder Bauman reserved his decision.

  70. If Bauman doesn’t hear them, the FLDS and the amicus have already suggested his final decision will be flawed.


    Typical FLDS claim: they want special treatment not given to other citizens, and if they don’t get it, they cry “unfair.”

  71. In Eldorado life goes on, the FLDS hasn’t prevented folks from enjoying life, wonder what any of the YFZ people thought when they tried to go through town only to wait on a parade? Hope some of the YFZ were exposed to this bit of normal America. See video of homecoming parade for EHS, the people of Eldorado being themselves. Video from youtube, posted by Eldorad Success newspaper, video also on nespapers website

  72. I can not believe that canadian request, those people and reality do not mix. I don’t doubt Canada will not allow such bologna.

  73. Here’s the thing I’m pondering about the whole Canadian – immunity / anonymity thing.

    Seems to me that if in fact a sovereign God is in control and you’re only doing his bidding, then you should do so without fear. Where is true religious conviction? Apparently, these people’s religious convictions only go so far.

  74. Well Ron. I call it plain bullcrap.

  75. If they grant it, then they will be lining up to “confess” any crimes they might have cause they could not later be prosecuted. Here’s a thought, what if they know/believe that Warren’s prosecution will unveil another string of crimes, such as moving under aged girls across the national borders, and they actually WANT immunity to those crimes more than they want polygamy to be decriminalized?

  76. rih

    I was thinking something the same. They continually claim this is a civil rights issue and is of the same order as the march on Selma, etc., but they don’t want to do the hard work that Gandhi did in India in challenging unjust salt laws or the marchers did in getting civil disobedience to bring the unjustness of the laws to public attention…. my guess is that they really don’t think that the immorality of anti-polygamy laws resonates with the general public.

    For the gay rights movement for example, as more gays came out of the closet more and more people realized that their cousin, their sister’s best friend, their uncle, their great aunt were gay so they could relate more to the issue…

    but for polygamists – they don’t, I am guessing, really want to come out of the closet to let us see how normal everything is in their lives….

    I can only guess that is because
    a) there aren’t that many to come out
    b) things in the closet aren’t that normal
    c) they like being in the closet because it is easier to control the others in the closet
    d) they don’t really believe in it themselves sufficiently to put things on the line…
    e) something I didn’t think of

  77. e) they don’t really care about their government except to try to avoid it. They are special, we are inferior and working together for the common good is just not going to work.

  78. Still wonder what’s the buzz within the Schleicher County Grand Jury, what more will wash out.

  79. It’s met twice recently. If it is still meeting then the next meeting will happen later this month, around the 27th.

  80. Anon Du jour: thanks for posting the link to Forgoson’s “poetry’, and Betty, thank you for your kind words about my posts. I am also pleased to be counted as being in the company of both of you.
    Agreed: Forgoson is NOT a poet.

  81. I just finished reading the book by Brian J Mackert…”Illegitimate:….Son of Polygamy”. [I love my Kindle!] It was quite interesting and explained life under oppression, both religious and familial, in an easy to understand manner. It’s a good read for people who want to get a good view on the effects of those living in the FLDS. Written from a man’s point of view, it’s still just as horrible a life as it was/is for the people still stuck in it.

  82. mc119 you need to get Jason Williams’ book called Zero Chance. It’s about how the FLDS destroyed his marriage and tried to take his kids.

  83. I am now reading “What Peace There May Be” based on your recommendation, Proud – I am enjoying it, thanks !

  84. PT, thanks. I just ordered it.

  85. Nah Cat. I’m in just the right place.

  86. Susanna Barlow’s book S? Yes, its very good, but the Zero Chance one is so relevant to what is going on in the FLDS kicking people out and reassigning families.

  87. Just wonder what life in the crick is like after the SCOU ruling on the UEP.

    Looks like Warren or his goons wont be booting men out of their homes anymore and stealing the women and children.

    Progress has been made!

  88. It’s getting closer to property tax time again in Texas. If you want a laugh, recall how Willie the Thug got his rump up when they learned that YFZ money didn’t buy or rent Schleicher County law by paying property taxes, like they’d been doing over at Short Creek so long.

  89. Zero Chance is not available on Kindle, so I will have to order it, Proud.

  90. Signed copies of “Zero Chance” are available from HOPE Org. You can order it through their web site.

  91. BTW when is Warren going to Texas? Is it November now?

  92. Ho Hum,
    Looks like sometime after Nov 15

  93. Yes Ho Hum, it will be after the Nov 15 hearing. Until then we’ve got Wendell’s challenge to the bigamy law, Merril’s PTH, Merril’s trial and Wendell’s trial to keep us entertained.

  94. On the subject of Islamic polygamous temporary marriages to children –

  95. The video above was placed for those “enlightened” individuals who claim that we should not set a lower age limit for marriage of young girls. Clearly given that members of certain religions think that babies are candidates for temporary marriages – we do need to set a lower age limit.

  96. Belle Du Jour, that makes no sense, if these groups think babies are candidates, why would we lower the age? We need to raise the age.

  97. Khomeini, huh? “Temporary marriage” with a 4-5 yr old?

    WOW – just wow. major effed up.

  98. Proud,
    I meant the lower age limit for marriage should be set to 18 or higher.

  99. Pardon me if I don’t automatically trust the translation on that one. They could just as easily say that he cooked the child and ate it and we wouldn’t know the difference. Just cause it’s on the internet does not make it true.

  100. Thanks for clarifying Belle.

    Betty, I agree, translations aren’t to be trusted without question.

  101. S said: Zero Chance is not available on Kindle, so I will have to order it

    Check it again.. I ordered it on Kinlde last night. $9.99. Or as Anon 11:40 said.. via

  102. Thanks – it was not available on Kindle a month ago – I will order it tonight.

  103. Well we know how muslims treat child brides

  104. We know how SOME muslims treat child brides.

  105. I agree Betty. The first thing I thought when I watched that video (someone I know posted the link to Facebook) was that I couldn’t really trust it. It’s a translation of a second hand account. On question that I had was; how does this person (the one who wrote the letter) know that Khomeni has both “front and back” sex with the child? Seemed a little over the top to me. I’m not defending Islam or Kohmeni (however the heck you spell that name) or anything of the sort — just being suspicious of such a nebulous accusation.

  106. Actually an ex – Moslem Arabic speaking woman confirmed that the translation is accurate.
    I don’t know if Khomeini actually had sex with the young girl, but it IS irrefutable that Khomeini did author documents which stated that it was religiously acceptable in his opinion for a man to marry and have sex with a nine yr old – and to engage in intimate touching of a girl less than nine years of age.

  107. interesting article in the Huffington Post Today –

  108. It’s quite common to argue that a man can marry a girl as young as the youngest wife of Mohammed, which I think was 9 years old.

  109. When does that lousy deadbeat dad merril jessop go to trial? He should have been in jail already for his fight to avoid paying child support to Carolyn.

  110. Yes, Mohammed married his favorite wife, Ayesha, the scribe of the Hadiths, when she was 9. She was betrothed to him at age 7.

  111. I think we know how muslims treat child brides, although some are stoned to death or otherwise mutilated if they resist.

    That said, I realize not all muslims have child brides, but then I think many countries actually allow it – or ignore it.

    Isnt it sad that Indonesia is the place to go for the pedophile tourist trade?

  112. I think Thailand and Cambodia are very popular for sex tourism, including very young girls.

    Afghanistan has a marriage age of 18 for men and 16 for females, but the article I found also said that in almost half of all marriages in Afghanistan, the bride is younger than 16. So, obviously, enforcement is nil. Sharia law generally says onset of menses.

  113. Yup, looked it up. The top countries for sex tourism are (in oder) Thailand, Cambodia, India, Brazil and Mexico. In Thailand and Cambodia, most prostitutes are under 18 years old, of both sexes. Human trafficking is a big problem there also. Both of those countries are predominantly Buddhist.

  114. Ale wife, last I looked Merril’s trial was on the calendar for the middle of October.

  115. I dont know why I was thinking Indonesia, some other whacky stuff was happening there.

  116. Indonesia stretches out just below Cambodia and Thailand.

  117. Anon a Ho – Hum :
    Indonesia has legalized polygamy – and the divorce rate in polygamous marriages there is in the realm of 75%
    Maybe that is why Indonesia came to your mind…

  118. Thank you, Proud Texan. I will follow that trial closely.

  119. MC1199 :
    I tried to order Zero Chance on Amazon last night – and I can’t find the Kindle version, could you link to it ?
    All I can find on Amazon is this listing, which is not available on Kindle yet ..

    Do I have the right book ?

  120. yes that’s the book S.

  121. Hmm, maybe mc1199 can clarify how she / he got the book on Kindle for me….?

  122. If you can’t get it on kindle, get a hard copy. It is worth your time to read.

  123. Why is it that I can’t get TxPrickettMan to say anything?

  124. It will be an interesting fall with warren’s extradiion in Nov and more of the “dirty dozen” going on trial in October and Novemeber.

  125. It amazes me every day that we have groups like this in America who abuse children like they do in those third world countries.

    Its shameful!

  126. And many of them do it because their “religion” says they should. Glad my God, or at least my perception of “my God” does not want children abused in his name or for his cause.

  127. comments on articles on the Canadian constitutionality trial are enlightening.

    One said that if all the polygamists are doing is breaking bigamy laws in the name of religion why would those requesting to remain anonymous need to anonymous. It isn’t as if anybody has really being pushing the bigamy laws….
    So it is something else they are afraid of …. like underage abuse?

  128. i agree anon de lune, it could be an interesting fall. we’ve got merril and wendell set in october, warren’s extradition in nov along with leroy j steed’s trial. the doctor still has charges pending in schleicher county.

    leroy j steed seems to be all but forgotten, but he’s also got evidence tampering charges along with the sexual assault and bigamy charges.

  129. HHG,
    Funny that those on the anti – decriminalization / anti – legalization of polygamy side are not permitted to testify anonymously.
    That wouldn’t be discrimination, would it ???

  130. HHG: Sounds like it to me.

  131. Stamp: It amazes me every day that we have groups like this in America who abuse children like they do in those third world countries.
    Its shameful!


    And have you noticed that many countries in which women are not given equal rights REMAIN third world countries?

    Disenfranchising half the population is the ultimate “thinking with the little head” stupidity.

  132. Lifetime TV is showing THE 19TH WIFE — Adapted from David Ebershoff’s best-selling novel tonight starting at 9 PM Eastern time.

  133. Thanks anon for the reminder ….

  134. “It isn’t as if anybody has really being pushing the bigamy laws….
    So it is something else they are afraid of …. like underage abuse?”

    The RCMP arrested Oler and Blackmore on polygamy charges. While they were dropped, if section 293 is upheld, they are afraid of being arrested based on what they testified to under oath…arrests would be likely in that case since the FLDS/Blackmore group is the main target. I doubt underage marriage will be an issue as the AOC in Canada was 14 until 2005 when it was raised to 16.

  135. Also, how would it hurt if they are granted immunity? If they don’t testify, any potential crimes would remain hidden. I doubt they would testify to anything other than bigamy anyway. If in the unlikely event they testify to child abuse, rape, spousal abuse, baby murder and so on, that would be very informative as to what is going on in Bountiful and would be a huge impetus for the RCMP to step up their investigations. Being granted immunity cannot hurt and would only help in discovering the truth in these communities.

  136. it would depend on who was testifying, the men who are the main abusers no, i would not grant them immunity, but some of the younger adults, maybe.

  137. So then let those testifying against legalization of polygamy testify anonymously as well, Anon.
    What is good for the goose is good for the gander

  138. Sure, let those testifying against polygamy be granted immunity, but they have no incentive to do that.
    Granting polygamists immunity lets us hear their side of the story, or do we really want to hear what they have to say?

  139. I think if they don’t let them testify, then the case will fail later on because of it. I suspect they will be rather careful in selecting who will speak and what their subject matter will be, as always.

  140. allow everyone to be anonymous then. both sides.

  141. Hmm, maybe mc1199 can clarify how she / he got the book on Kindle for me….?

    S, I got it off my online Amazon/Kindle account. However..I just checked in the Kindle store [on my Kindle], and put in Jason Williams [at the bottom search area], and it came up as the 3rd choice. Part of the book cover has a pair of boots that say “Keep Sweet” if I remember from the online photo. Not sure why your Kindle doesn’t show it. Or try getting via your online Amazon account. Oh and I’m a ‘she’. 🙂

  142. Or try getting via your online Amazon account.

    Oooops, sorry, you said you’d already tried that…..

  143. MC1199,

    The Kindle version of the book doesn’t come up as an option when I go to my online Amazon account – maybe I will try to access on the Kindle itself, as you suggest.

    Continuing on his current prolific writing streak, I see that Ron has a new blog entry :

  144. My own two cents on the anonymity / immunity Canadian issue : grant limited immunity, but not anonymity. You can bet that many ex – FLDS people in Canada are not willing to come forward because they were not granted anonymity. If one side is granted anonymity, then both sides should receive the same consideration.

  145. The 19th Wife received very good reviews :

  146. The giant hedgehog of Monty Python fame is no longer looking for Dimsdale………

    He’s looking for Prickett.

  147. i tried my kindle and couldn’t find it S. not sure, but i did request it be put on kindle.

  148. S. Does your local library have a copy you can check out?

  149. I broke down and ordered a paperback copy last night. I gave up.

  150. anon

    “Granting polygamists immunity lets us hear their side of the story, or do we really want to hear what they have to say?”

    What defense do they have for child marriage? Transporting children across international borders in the child sex trade?

    They only good of giving them immunity would be for them to get immunity. I say prosecute instead. But, its Canada, they do a lot of goofy things up there so who knows.

  151. I am for granting them limited immunity against prosecution for bigamy/ polygamy in the reference case regarding polygamy. As for blanket immunity – NO.
    As for granting them the ability to testify with anonymity, only do so if the anti – side is granted the same rights. There must be plenty Moslem women who are not willing to testify in the polygamy case because they fear that they will be the victims of a fatwah.
    Let them testify with anonymity as well.

  152. Like I said they can tell us all about the joys of polygamy and I really doubt that anyone will prosecute them for bigamy – so you could give them, if one really wants, immunity from bigamy… but for statutory rape? no, for child brides? no, for income tax violations? no. for child labor? no, for child trafficking? no, etc.

  153. PS I would interested to know how many COULD testify if they knew that they would be cross examined on all of the above side benefits of polygamy? So now that I think about it I say go for it issue immunity from bigamy and polygamy per se, but specify they will be open to cross examination.

  154. Honestly, since the case is about whether bigamy should be legal or illegal, anyone who testifies probably should be given immunity as to that particular crime. However, no one has the right to request blanket immunity.

    Anonymous testimony, in my mind, doesn’t fit with my concept of the way the system should work. Then again, I’m not Canadian.

  155. “Dimsdale…”

  156. Can’t remember who, but someone posted or speculated that they should be granted immunity for their testifying. Also, that the immunity should be for both Canada and the US. Don’t think that pig will fly.

  157. The Canadians are being requested to give immunity to polygamists, but IMHO if they do that, they have to offer it to the other side as well.

    I think a large part of this has to do with muslims, as Canada has a large growing population as do England and France – to their dismay, no doubt.

    I really havent read a lot on it, besides reading about numerous assorted problems that seem to be growing there.

  158. Anon de luna

    They are reaching for the moon on that one, huh?

    Hey look they are astronauts now!

  159. Hmmm, not surprisingly “lunatic” comes from the same Latin root – “luna.”

    The word derives from the latin word for “moonstruck.”

  160. Ron,
    if you have spare time, could you create a post on the issues of immunity and anonymity in court cases ?
    thanks – also HHG had a request.

  161. Steed’s motion to dismiss denied

  162. PT

    Any links to any documents?

  163. Steed and stable finding Texas not so Zionish the past couple years?

  164. Actually Chaps – Steed’s case is in Utah.

  165. SO hows everyone been?

  166. I see new folks and regular folks still here 🙂

  167. Steed thought the grass looked greener in the other pasture.

    Should have though about that before going to that Zion racket place.

  168. RiH Brooke tweeted about it, no links yet.

  169. Oh yeah that Steed – How many of them are there anyways? 10,000 peeps and 3 last names. Like that valley in Afghanistan.

  170. Hi there DD numver 1!

  171. Hey Chaps, nice to meet ya 🙂

  172. Um, Chaps, you’ve got it wrong. Steed wasn’t in Texas and his crime and court case are in Utah. He pretended to marry his 14 year old cousin in one of Warren’s fake ceremonies and then he raped her some time into the “marriage”. This isn’t connected to the goings-on in Texas.

  173. Allen steed in Utah. Leroy steed is in schleicher co

  174. dd1 –
    good to see you here

  175. So many Steeds running loose about the pasture!

    I bet its Warrens middle name.


    As there was a legally sufticient “report” of the offense to a “enfbtcement agency,”

    Court llnds tle stipulated thcts and stateftents of law do not provide a sufficient basis for
    granting Defendanl’s motion. The motion is tlrerefore



  177. Thanks for bringing that over chaps

  178. Ahhh, thanks Proud Texan. It totally slipped my mind that there was a Steed in Texas. 🙂

  179. RiH, Emack’s brief has been filed with the 3rd COA. He’s requested oral argument. Do you know if it’s possible to get a copy of the brief? State’s response is due 10/11/10.

  180. Raymond got ANOTHER extension of time for filing his brief, his is now due 10/11/10

  181. So this is what YFZ want their real estate taxes spent on eh. Sure not the smartest choices, but smart’s not what they do.

  182. There not the smartest gamblers at the saloon. First they lose it by ignoring it, then when its too late, they dump a truck of money on it to make it stop.

    A day late and a dollar short. Caught cheatin too!

  183. PT

    Usually $1 per page – you may want to call the 3rd COA and ask them if they can copy the brief without the exhibits. Otherwise, you’d have to pay for the whole thing or someone would need to go down and mark what they want copied.

  184. PT

    Re: Raymond

    Extensions are quite common. If you look at the time line of when appeals actually get heard, they should look at rewriting the rules to be more “reality” based.

  185. I just found a new article about Stephanie Sinclair and the photos of FLDS members that she took for National Geographic:

    I must say, the FLDS really know how to flatter photographers since every single one seems to come away thinking they’ve had a unique, unprecedented inside look at a secretive sect. Yeah, just you, Oprah, People Magazine, ABC, Larry King and several major newspapers.

    Somehow it’s overlooked that it’s obviously a PR opportunity, one in a long string, and it only went forward after receiving approval from their incarcerated leader.

  186. RiH – this is Raymond’s 3rd extension.

  187. PT

    Not surprising at all. Like I say look at actual time versus the time line in the rules. The 3rd COA is quite content to give this one more time.

  188. Chaps, there are a lot more than 3 FLDS Surnames:

    Barlow, Jessop, Jeffs, Steed, Johnson, Nielson, Blackmore, Cooke, Cook, Black, Zitting, Roundy, Fischer, Oler, Musser, Timpson, Hammon, Wall, Holm, Keate, Dutson, Warner, Harker, Rohbock, Broadbent, Allred, Wooley, Emack, Bistline, Knudson, Bateman, Bradshaw, Chatwin, Darger, Dockstader, Naylor, Richter, Williams, Wyler, Draper, Palmer, Quinton, Wayman, Beagley, Burnham, Cawley, Cox, Lane, Mackert, Meldrum, Nyborg, Shapeley, Stewart, Stubbs, Peine, Pipkin, Pledger, Thomas, White, Wilson, Young, Bauer, McCown, McKinley, Wight, Warner, Carling, Carlisle, Kapscos, Thornton, Ream, Peterson, Old, Horsley, Witt, Archibald, Brighurst, Hunter, Lindsey…

    Just to name a few. The YFZ ranch only had a small number of last names. You know Warren and his bloodlines….

  189. Dimsdale….

  190. St Geo

    Yeah, I know they have more than 3 surnames. Seems like the same ones are always getting in trouble though.

    Jeffs / Barlow / Jessop / Steed / and a handful of others.

  191. Hey St. Georgian, how many of those last names have been exed out of existence in the FLDS?

  192. Yeah, I know they have more than 3 surnames. Seems like the same ones are always getting in trouble though.
    Jeffs / Barlow / Jessop / Steed / and a handful of others.


    Aren’t those the “elite?”

  193. “Aren’t those the “elite?””


    If you consider them being either prisoners of the state “elite”.

    Barlows have missed that so far though, but a bunch of them got tarred, feathered and sent to repent from afar by Warren.

  194. For Barlow, depends, Louis, Dan and several others got exed by Warren.

  195. yep, the Barlows and Jessops were the original FLDS and the Jeffs were “Johnny come latelies”. Warren didn’t like that, so he took out the competition by exing the majority of John Y Barlow and Martha Jessop’s sons.

  196. As I remember reading once, Jeffs dad Rulon was originally LDS, and Jeffs was born in San Francisco and raised in SLC area. That made him pretty much an outsider to those local yokels who were there for generations.

    He proved his carpet-bagger worthiness, true enough.

  197. Proud Texan,

    I don’t know the answer to your question. Most are still present to some degree or another in Short Creek and/or Canada. The non elite families are much smaller, as they typically are lucky to get one wife. They accepted new members until the 1970s, I believe, so there are a lot of small families. Maybe an ex-FLDS poster could generate a better answer to your question.

  198. There might be some females who have a lot of those last names, but the male lines on lots of them are exed and/or out.

  199. St. Georgian, you present a wealth of knowledge. Please continue to post here.

  200. yes, i agree with S.

  201. #

    So many Steeds running loose about the pasture!

    I bet its Warrens middle name.

    Chaps said this on September 14, 2010 at 1:24 PM

    You would be correct.

  202. Warren is good about keepin it in the family I guess.

  203. No Smith ever, isn’t that interesting?

    Some names have moved out, exist now as maiden names, or can only be found on headstones in the Short Creek cemetery:

    Olds (not Old) Shapley (not Shapeley) Olchewsky, Caulvin, Pearson, Olny, Council, Weis, Carlson, Lauritzen, Petty, Kunz, Lindgren, Pushell, LeBaron, Covington, Balmforth, Phelps, Adair

  204. We’ve never seen those names in the news. Maybe thats the group that knew better?

  205. Anon @ 10:48, what about Hammon and Timpson? I know they still exist in CP, but are they still around as last names in the Crick?

  206. This just in from Canada on the issue of anonymity and immunity :

  207. For your review – a scholarly article on the psychology of stalking, with a particular emphasis on internet stalkers.

  208. So how come Uncle Wink Blackmore wants to be anonymous in court, but he allowed himself to be featured on National Geographic channel in a one hour long episode ?
    What sense does this make ?

  209. Pretty much my question. They are all over National Geographic print and tv.

  210. The LeBarons have been on the news, Stamp.

  211. all I see on the stalking article is a table of contents.

  212. although this article is specifically about stalking an ex-spouse or ex-partner, there are some quotes that I think are applicable.

    “They recognize no boundaries – personal or legal. They honor to “contracts” and they pursue their target for years. They interpret rejection as a sign of the victim’s continued interest and obsession with them. They are, therefore, impossible to get rid of. Many of them are narcissists and, thus, lack empathy, feel omnipotent and immune to the consequences of their actions.”

    “Stalking – and the ability to “mete out justice” makes them feel powerful and vindicated.”

    “Stalkers are emotionally labile and present with rigid and infantile (primitive) defense mechanisms: splitting, projection, projective identification, denial, intellectualization, and narcissism. They devalue and dehumanize their victims and thus “justify” the harassment or diminish it….Contrary to myths perpetrated by the mass media, studies show that most stalkers are men, have high IQ’s, advanced degrees, and are middle aged (Meloy and Gothard, 1995; and Morrison, 2001).”

    “Stalkers are typically lonely, violent, and intermittently unemployed – but they are rarely full fledged criminals.”

  213. And here’s a nonscholarly, but nice overview of cyberstalking.

  214. Unfortunately Betty all I can post is the table of contents of the book without copyright violation.

  215. Here it is on google books, for free :
    The Psychology of Stalking by Melroy :

  216. This article on stalking is also available full text for free :

  217. “Stalkers are typically lonely, violent, and intermittently unemployed – but they are rarely full fledged criminals.”

    Does this remind you of the same person it reminds me of? 😉

  218. Sounds awfully familiar to me …. hmmmmm…..

  219. Is that Steed guy still suing Elissa? Thats not going to go over very well with the jury.

    JMHO but what do I know?

  220. Alright Anon@10:48! I didn’t know they had LaBarons in their group.

    It is kinda strange that their are no Smiths. On one hand, most of Josephs family didn’t go to Utah and formed the Community of Christ (RLDS) instead. On the other hand, it is a very common name. It’s also weird that there are no Joneses, Browns, etc.

    My favorites are Stubbs, Dockstader, Rohbock, and Broadbent. Those are rather uncommon, yet interesting names. I have never heard of the ones you listed (except LaBaron). Thanks.

  221. Sorry, LeBaron. Not LaBaron.

  222. PT said: you need to get Jason Williams’ book called Zero Chance.

    Thanks, I just finished it this morning. Good book. I enjoyed the bits of humor he injected into his difficult life in the FLDS. I’m now on to “Lost Boy”. More interesting reading.

  223. I’ve read Lost Boy too. It’s also good.

  224. Good morning, FLDS Texas.

  225. Good morning, S!

  226. Good morning, Betty !

  227. I’m having a bad week, health wise and not getting much work done. I have food allergies, IBS and now (love the side affects of aging!) diverticulitis. I’m basically living on gruel, water and metamucil. Less than three week’s till my next show and tons of work facing me. Don’t know how much time I’ll be online in the coming weeks.

  228. Feel better, sorry to hear this. Hang in there.

  229. Thanks. This, too, will pass.

  230. Hope your health improves soon, Betty. Also, Good morning to you and to the rest of the regulars.

  231. Hey, real bummer, RIH is thinking of shutting down his site!

  232. It is a bummer. Maybe he’ll change his mind as the next 3 trials happen. Bigamy and performing an illegal marriage should be interesting.

  233. Morning, Chemist !

  234. That’s too bad about Ron’s blog, I have really enjoyed it. He has been unbiased and reasonable, but that doesn’t keep the whacko’s from attacking him.

    There is something wrong with those who support these child marriages – they give me the creeps. How different are their thought processes, really, from Brian David Mitchell and Phillip Garrido?

    Joseph Smith gives me the creeps too. The guy was marrying OTHER men’s wives, for heaven’s sake – how is that not adultery? And a whole religion thinks he speaks for God, and if you follow him you can BECOME a God?

    I need to go for a walk. The nastiness in some men’s characters when it comes to sex and women is beyond my comprehension.

  235. Betty I hope you feel like yourself again soon. My allergies have been going nuts, as they usually do in the fall, so I can sympathize. I’m just really glad I don’t have any real food allergies to worry about. 🙂

    Anon, there have been men since the dawn of time who try to use a supreme being to justify their horrible actions towards women. I don’t understand it myself but I try to just be grateful for those men (growing in number every year, I think) who respect and cherish women.

  236. Aw, Ronnie doesn’t want to play anymore?

  237. Who else is unsurprised that the nutjobs are trying to color the clear and concise statement of one person into something totally different? I wonder, is the sky blue in their world?

  238. I promised someone I’d use my contacts in this neck of the world to see if we can’t track him down. One bad turn deserves another type thing. Of course, unlike the nutjob crowd, I’m not going to go around making crazy accusations on the internet. I’ll turn over my findings to the appropriate individuals and let them handle matters themselves.

    Hey, Bob, find some morals yet? How about ethics? Maybe a brain?

  239. Hey “Bob,”
    Guess that you have nothing better to do with yourself tonight, loser.
    You’re so impressed with yourself and I can’t figure out why.
    Why is someone who lives in a trailer, is broke, unemployed, and
    has a kid in prison so impressed with himself ?
    I don’t get it.

  240. Also someone who got kicked out of their church. What a loser.

  241. Is there any compelling reason that we have to be subjected to this abusive, narcissistic egomaniac on a daily basis ?

  242. Dear “Bob Dillon” :




  243. merril’s pre trial hearing is 9/28/10. Can’t wait to see that lousy deadbeat dad go to jail.

  244. Hey is that the guy who started that Hugh mungus fungus new church?

    Prophet of Montana Mighty and Strong Swan Shizzle

  245. Thanks, all. I’ve gone from being totally miserable to only mildly inconvenienced, so back to normal can’t be far away. Good thing. I just got into the county fair for my business and it’s only ONE WEEK from now! So, got to make the tie dye. Hope I make some money.

  246. Is Bobbit done yet? Stick a fork in, check.

  247. The posts have been deleted, I missed all the excitement. Lucky me.

  248. No Stamp, the guy who started Hugh’s church is “DaPastor” from Biblical Families website.

    You know, “da pastor” the pseudo Christian hypocrite who runs a “Christian polygamy” website which says that you can violate any government law which forbids polygamy – even though he worked for the government (military) and was collecting a check from the government ?

    Yes, that “da pastor”
    Heard he got canned by the military
    Wonder who blew the whistle on him …

  249. Kids get raped and people think it’s a game. What a bunch of sick evil losers.

  250. Anon. @8:30 lol

  251. Hey Ron could you help me out with something? Why is Warren still in jail?

  252. Ron said, “Kids get raped and people think it’s a game. What a bunch of sick evil losers.”

    Hey Ron, it is all in the name of God, don’t you know that ?

    Lord, please protect me from some of your followers.

  253. Walton

    One of the many reasons was that he was denied bond on the extradition warrant.

  254. Doesn’t he also have a warrant for evading arrest? And his Utah case sent back for retrail, not dismissed.

  255. Warren’s not in jail, he’s in prison.

  256. Yeah Betty, although I’m not sure exactly whether there is a federal warrant for him or not. It’s not uncommon for jurisdictions to put “holds” on people so that in the event they are about to be released paperwork can be filed at that point.

    So, yeah, there are actually loads of reasons he’s still behind bars.

  257. Wally talked about wanting a speedy trial for his client. Isn’t holding him in “limbo” for one trial while waiting for the what if’s for another denying him that right to a speedy trial?

    How long can they hold an “alleged innocent” man who claims he isn’t THE Warren Jeffs ?

  258. The “speedy trial” argument ultimately is a loser. It’s hard to complain about not getting a speedy trial in one state when you’re a multiple state offender.




  261. Skippy said he passed all the background checks. But did the Zoo keeper pass his? Just wondering.

  262. Well if the charges were dismissed for Warren in Arizona and he has spent enough time in jail according to Utah wouldn’t he actually be considered a free man? So why is he in a Utah jail? If he is in a Utah jail shouldn’t there be pending charges from Utah holding him there?

    If he has pending charges against him for the state of Texas shouldn’t he be in a Texas jail?

    And if he isn’t Warren Jeffs why isn’t Wally holding press conferences telling everyone why he thinks an innocent man is being held and give the real identity.

    Sorry folks I know this is crazy and you know it is crazy but that is basically what they are trying to have us believe.

    I swear they don’t think these things thru before they test drive it all.

  263. Wow

    Guess McChild will be the “Prophet of Pedophelia” and from what I remember Scotty and Street are ready to join up with that program too.

    What a cluster!

  264. Wow!! I am really glad that the new church of underage marriage and sex before the AOC is in a place far from where I live. Those guys are certified nuts. One would think that Warren’s example would be enough to have them obey the law in those areas. Oh well, plenty of room in the prisons and on the sex offender registrys for them.

  265. See the link above :

    “I cannot imagine that the life experience of even the most mature 7 year old would be an appropriate match for me but if you find her, I will “check her out” so to speak.”

    Hugh McBryde makes Warren Jeffs look like a rank amateur.

  266. Those freaks are nuttier than squirrel poop.

  267. Walton, Warren is in a Utah prison and has charges pending against him in both Utah and Texas. Wally is just blowing smoke while he throws anything and everything at the wall to see if something can stick to keep Warren in Utah so he doesn’t have to face the music in Texas for raping a barely 12 year old girl.

  268. I cannot imagine that the life experience of even the most mature 7 year old would be an appropriate match for me but if you find her, I will “check her out” so to speak.”
    Hugh makes Warren look like a rank amateur.


    Kiddie diddlers, the both of them.

  269. Last week, as a comment on a post at fldslegal, our buddy duane opined that human trafficking for sex was basically a boogey man made up by sexually repressed people who want to deny others their legal rights. He claimed that hookers are really people who just like sex with lots of partners and, hey, the money’s nice, too. Or maybe it’s just a side effect of poverty where people make desperate choices (and that makes it OK?).

    Anyway, here’s an article about child trafficking in the US; they are being caught through internet ads.

  270. The big busts in Houston have been Asian women who have been trafficked.

    That’s actually a good article about the problems that things like Backpage and Craigslist have caused.

  271. What I dont get, is why Hugh would be looking for a job, or trying to keep a job, with his name all over the google.

    Anyone with half a brain who was hiring for anything besides a ditch digger would put in a name in google and see whats up.

    Hugh spells it out pretty clear what kind of person he is – he doesnt leave anything to guesswork..

  272. Did I hear that Craigslist is getting rid of their sex ads?

  273. The evil loser club is now doubling down on being evil and losers. They’re now bringing Sgt. Prickett’s daughter into things.

  274. Mouse

    Yeah, I believe the pulled their adult section last week. Honestly, that was probably a wise business decision, they were being hauled into court all the time over that section.

  275. Yes, Craig’s list closed down the “adult services” ads because they could not adequately monitor it for crime. The article I posted features and anecdote about a mother who found her missing 12 year old there in an ad.

  276. ….and I suppose that is somehow all justified in their minds because someone, somewhere mentioned the name of Hugh’s wife.

  277. …and I suppose that is somehow all justified in their minds because someone, somewhere mentioned the name of Hugh’s wife…


    The “someone” who mentioned the name of Hugh’s wife was Hugh, who stated the names of his first and second wives in his own blog.
    He’s the one who put that out there.

  278. and another article, specifically about Mexico, from CNN.

  279. Sort of my point. Made up justification for being evil.

  280. So what I find hilarious, is that someone who is job hunting would actually post crazy crap on a blog with their name on it.

    I guess if you want to stand up for crazy, thats your right, but I dont know who would want that in their organization.

    Here, Hugh proposes to plagerize another religion, except to change a few words so he could feel better if he were ever able to become a polygamist.

    Call it “Vermont Polygamy V2”


    “As a consequence the new denomination will begin, again, God willing. It will begin as essentially a CLONED (emphasis added) version of the Orthodox Presbyterian denomination with a REWRITE ( empasis added) of the Westminster Confession of Faith’s chapter 24 and a sort of WCF convention call to address other perceived deficiencies of the Confession.

    The proposed new wording of point one in Chapter 24 will be:

    “Marriage is to be between one man and one woman. It is it lawful before the LORD for a man to have more than one wife, but not for woman to have more than one husband, at the same time.” The old wording was:

    “Marriage is to be between one man and one woman: neither is it lawful for any man to have more than one wife, nor for any woman to have more than one husband, at the same time.” Other unisexed language with regard to divorce will be changed and screeds against “Papists” will be deleted.”


    How ingenious to invent a new religion, just plagerize the theology, but change the wording of a key phrase to turn it into a pro polygamist cult.

    I bet the “Orthodox Presbyterian” faith is really impressed.


  281. But Stamp, what I want to know is : 1) will Hugh be officiating illegal polygamist marriage ceremonies, and 2) what the age of consent for marriage might be in his church, given the following statement he made on the Theology Online website :

    “I cannot imagine that the life experience of even the most mature 7 year old would be an appropriate match for me but if you find her, I will “check her out” so to speak.”

  282. Hey guys why are you feeding his ego?

  283. Apparently this blog is in the midst of histrionic death throes. Apparently all the chicken littles over here are running around saying the sky is falling.

    Did I miss something?

  284. Bill sat on a stick again?

  285. Are you talking about this blog Ron?

  286. Those poor saps who grasp on every claim by Bill – they are dissapointed on a daily basis.

    When are they going to grow up and get a clue?

  287. Yes, apparently you guys are running around in fits since everything is apparently unraveling. Not only that everyone must be very concerned about the grand jury investigation into folks that speak out against the FLDS.

    Like I said, I guess I must have missed something.

  288. I’m not concerned about it, what are you even talking about. I’ve heard nothing about a grand jury investigation into folks who speak out against the FLDS?

    What exactly is unraveling? Last I heard, two Jessop, two Jeffs, a Keate and an Emack were in jail and 3 more are waiting in the wings and that doesn’t even count Warren who is too afraid of Texas to come here voluntarily. He’s going to have to be forced kicking and screaming to answer for his rape of a 12 year old and a 14 year old.

  289. PT

    It’s what the pro FLDS want to believe. They think folks like Bluesman and Natalie Malonis will soon be the targets of massive grand jury investigations.

    The think everyone is in fits over here.

    I’d call them reality impaired, but I don’t think they even have any grasp of reality to be impaired.

  290. TSK TSK

    The dangers of marijuana. And Crack.

  291. OK, I was worried that I’d missed something too, but if it’s coming from Mudpuppy or Hugh it’s probably a pile of lies to begin with.

  292. Texas better look out, Hugh says he’s here. Wonder if he’ll visit Mudpuppy’s donut shop.

  293. I’m about to fall from my chair in laughter! Ron, are you serious?

  294. Honestly, do you think I could make that up?

  295. I was going to run around in circles having fits over imaginary grand juries but I went to the county fair instead. Sorry — I’ll try to get up the energy for a Cheltenham tragedy tomorrow. Right now I’m pooped.

    (I had my first every funnel cake today though.) 😀

  296. Please excuse my absence – and sorry I missed the “cataclysm” (?) which has supposedly taken place,(?) as I have been on vacation.
    Proud, I wanted to thank you for your recommendation of Jason Williams’ “Zero Chance.” I couldn’t put it down and I finished it in less than 2 days. Great read.

    …Now if you will excuse me, time (and the tides) wait for no woman…

  297. Well Ron I’m glad you informed us so we know what we’re supposed to be doing according to the nutters. I hope I don’t get too many demerits for skipping out on the act scripted for us normals in mudpucky’s delusional set.

  298. Sorry or was that the Hugh person? I get those nutters mixed since I don’t really keep up with their er ah ahem efforts.

  299. Glad you liked it. I really found it informational about how the FLDS operated.

    Rebeckah, maybe I’ll join you in the Cheltenham tragedy, but somehow I think it will probably have passed by then. Bigger worries are that Hugh might be at the non-existent donut shop waiting to be served.

  300. It is hard to tell them apart….they are,after all, charter members of the Woohoo Mad Hatter’s Club. All reality impaired, Tin Hatter’s are welcome, as well.

  301. I think they feed off of each other.

  302. Whoops:

    Birth Date: 05/31/84
    Address : PO Box 2573, Colorado City, AZ
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    17:58:00 09/18/10 Gattis, Tommy-h HCPD

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    WARRANT-CASH WARRANT-CASH ONLY BM WCJ3 753.00 [No Payments Made]
    41-12A-303.2 NO PROOF OF INSURANCE BM WCJ3 400.00 [No Payments Made]
    41-6a-530 ALCOHOL- RESTRICT DRI BM WCJ3 1615.00 [No Payments Made]
    53-3-227(3)(a) DL SUSPEND/REVOKE ALC BM WCJ3 300.00 [No Payments Made]
    41-6a-526 ALCOHOL- OPEN CONTAIN CM WCJ3 100.00 [No Payments Made]
    41-6a-804(1)(a) UNSAFE LANE TRAVEL CM WCJ3 90.00 [No Payments Made]
    41-6a-518.2 IGNITION INTERLOCK VI BM WCJ3 623.00 [No Payments Made]
    41-6a-502 DUI-1st,2nd OFFENSE BM WCJ3 1405.00 [No Payments Made]

  303. Geez. I”ve been away a couple of days and returned to discover that this blog is in the midst of death throes! Why am I always the last one to find out?

  304. Very amused at people who keep declaring victory in a war we did not know we were fighting!

  305. OMG, I went over and read Bill’s blog. WOW! He’s claiming that Natalie faked all the evidence that’s posted here, including getting Warren and Marrianne to pose in those incriminating photos! What a nut case! And Natalie’s scrambling to keep her license, etc., etc.

    Rich fantasy life, that’s all I’ve got to say.

  306. OMG! I read Hugh’s blog and he thinks that he has found grounds to ruin all of the prosecution’s case because of information that’s posted here on a blog! 1) bizarre conclusion and 2) delusoins of grandeur. And, yes, we’re “imploding”.

  307. Well, going to try to sleep some more. I guess I’ll see in the morning what new and crazy fantasies have been cooked up by the crazies.

  308. Almost 497,000 hits and this blog is dying?? Just like black is white and up is down.

  309. Sounds like a heap of crazy to me, chemist.

  310. Sorry I missed you last night, FLDS Texas.
    Apparently reports of your demise were premature, just as I suspected.

    Betty, glad to see that you are up and about and on the mend.

    I too was amused by reports that Warren & his 12 yr old bride were forced to pose for their wedding and anniversary photos by anti – FLDS forces. I hope they really don’t believe that.

    Denial, grandiosity, and delusional thinking have truly taken over.

  311. Hugh reminds me of a dog who was along on a cougar hunt one year.

    We were deep in the woods on a mountain at about 10,000 feet and the dumb dog saw a party balloon that had drifted from town and got stuck in a tree.

    That eager dog started barking “cougar treed” and we stood around with our rifles and laughed!

    The dog owner wasnt just embarrassed, he was mad!

  312. I think it was really clever of the anti-FLDS to make Warren pose for the incriminating photo. Dang we’re good.

  313. Betty: Crazy is as crazy does. They are deep into self delusions.

  314. It’s pretty amazing. They could accept that maybe, MAYBE their pose that Warren is completely innocent of anything except being a proponent of polygamy between consenting adults MIGHT be wrong, based on really convincing evidence that has already been presented in courtrooms and admit that there is something really wrong with this group of people. OR, they could make up a complicated and unbelievable conspiracy theory based on pretty much no evidence whatsoever that accuses their blogging adversaries of concocting and tampering with evidence. Guess which one wins? The one the furthest from any trace of reality, that allows them to continue in their extreme thinking patterns.

    Yes, PT, any kind of critical thinking applied to these theories and they break down, even the most rudimentary.

    Serious, serious crazy.

  315. Oh great, not again – another Cult pops up only to make more horrific news. Where is the protection for children from these whackjobs?

    Doesnt Law Enforcement pay attention anymore?



    Deputies searched a wide swath of Southern California early Sunday for a break-off religious sect of 13 people that included children as young as three and left behind letters indicating they were awaiting an apocalyptic event and would soon see Jesus and their dead relatives in heaven, authorities said.”

  316. Well, I guess the only thing to do is sit back with a bag of popcorn and wait to see what happens when you stalk a Texas policeman’s daughter and take wild conspiracy theories to the Texas AG office.

  317. Hugh thinks that the FLDS case of child molesting convictions will lead to the legalization of “Polygyny”.

    Anyone else finding Crack in their Lucky Charms?

    Maybe driving an 18 wheeler gives him special Leprechaun powers?

  318. Move over and pass the popcorn Betty, this should be good.

  319. Maybe Hugh is travelling with his new friends, here they are gathered in their latest gig.

  320. I use real butter on my popcorn. Fat is fat and butter tastes better. I’m not fat, I’m fluffy.

    I ought not laugh at those unfortunate mentally ill folks but that one hate cult they’ve become is really out of this world, it wouldn’t pass as a belushi film no way.

  321. Ron: Yes, apparently you guys are running around in fits since everything is apparently unraveling. Not only that everyone must be very concerned about the grand jury investigation into folks that speak out against the FLDS.
    Like I said, I guess I must have missed something.



    This is why I don’t read the pro-pedophile blog. I see enough insanity just reading the legitimate news.

  322. I’ll start another batch of popcorn!

    S., yes, I’m eating solid food, even food with roughage! Good thing, too, since I have a metric ton of sweatshirts to dye before the county fair starts on Thursday evening. I’m going to mostly be down in my Lah-bore-ah-torey for the next few days. This weekend was kid’s tshirts. Thank goodness for internet radio or I’d lose what little mind I have left while folding tiny tshirts.

  323. Betty,
    Glad to hear your improving – don’t over stress though… sounds like you have a daunting task ahead of you. Good luck.

  324. I’m almost through with the physical work for today and want to just do basic maintenance kind of stuff, laundry, bills, etc. We might go out for live music tonight. Yes, I’m daunted but the opportunity to vend at the fair was too good to pass up even with the very short notice. Honest, I did not plan to get into this backlog.

    Anyway, back to our normal programming….

  325. It also seems like physical activity is a good thing for the spastic tummy, which offsets to some extent the worry about the show.

  326. Dimwit…

  327. Rob,

    Would you care to comment on why Hugh McBryde stated the following on the Theology Online site :

    “I cannot imagine that the life experience of even the most mature 7 year old would be an appropriate match for me but if you find her, I will “check her out” so to speak.”

    Has Hugh got a prospective 7 yr old yet ?

  328. Naw, that was me doing a poor joke. The joke is the link for the name which is this cartoon from

  329. Hell, I’ll link the cartoon to my name for awhile.

  330. “I cannot imagine that the life experience of even the most mature 7 year old would be an appropriate match for me but if you find her, I will “check her out” so to speak.”

    You still haven’t provided an explanation for Hugh’s behavior.

  331. Hmmm, maybe instead of “tin foil hat” my new phrase should be “Nasa, we’re a go for manual insertion.”

  332. Anon @ 11:42, if you are waiting for Hugh to explain something, it will be a while, he’s off with the traveling carny show and their internet connection is spotty at best.

  333. You know, I was just reading over on Bill M’s blog and he and his group seem to have forgotten 1 crucial element in the state taking over the UEP trust. It was Rod Parker, their own attorney, who brought the FLDS’ failure to answer lawsuits to the attention of the State and further informed the State that if they (the State) didn’t do something then the entire trust would be decimated. I guess Rod should have remembered the old saying, be careful what you wish for.

  334. Has Rod Parker fessed up to putting the FLDS in this fine predicament?

    Did he charge them extra?

  335. Watching Bill and Hugh get all excited with that personal party they are having in their little Zipper Ranch makes me wonder when they are going to go blind?

  336. He probably billed them for the letter or phone call or whatever it was he made to Shirtless.

    BTW, someone ponied up $5286 to bail Jesse Raymond Dockstader out of jail.

  337. Betty says: Bill’s blog. WOW! He’s claiming that Natalie faked all the evidence that’s posted here, including getting Warren and Marrianne to pose in those incriminating photos!

    HE seems to leave out a very important fact…if memory serves…[although, fact’s have never been his strong suit] wasn’t Warren was in hidng, and on the run when he “married” the 12yr olds? Wouldn’t Natalie have turned him in…if she knew where he was? Apparently, he’s skirted that fact.

  338. facts have never been his strong suit is an understatement. heck why hasn’t he blamed the uep being taken over on natalie and blues yet? i’m just waiting for that post.

    if he were to tell it, natalie and blues were probably posing as naomie and isaac and that’s why the pair weren’t arrested for helping a fugitive.

  339. Wow Natalie has amazing powers! She must have been there to entrap Warren by making him marry Elissa to Allen. Then she secretly tape recorded Temple ceremonies with Warren and girls on the Gardner bed and hid it in the Escalade.

    Then, she probably pays the jurors to convict The Dirty Dozen as they walk single file in front of jury after jury.

  340. Or maybe the FLDS have committed so many crimes, you would have to be blind as a bat not to see the writing on the wall!

  341. Oh, and Blues Time Travelled back to 1998 and told Rulon to Groom Warren as his successor so that the end times would be quickened.

  342. PT

    Blues is the “wizard of Oz.” He is the man behind the curtain pulling the strings. You, I, and everyone else are all controlled by Blues. He is lord and master of us all.

    All Hail Blues. Master tell us thy bidding and we shall fulfill it in thy name….

  343. Nasa, were a go for manual insertion

  344. Wasn’t there also the [wingnut] assertion that Blues was Natalie and/or Natalie was Blues? A master or mistress of disguises!

  345. Oh no mc1999, see before it became quite clear that I’m over 200 miles away from these guys, Blues, Natalie and I were one and the same. Not only that, we controlled vast resources of Zombie computers at the Houston Public library.

    Now I guess since Blues is clearly Lord and master of us all, I’m now relegated to dog meat status.

    I might be insulting one or the other, but my new phrase for Natalie Malonis and Blues man is “Super Bigot and her sidekick Blueboy.”

    Anyway, when the facts are against you, it’s obviously easy to create boogeymen.

  346. According to Julieboy, Dan Fischer sends everyone a big fat check every month too.

    I’m going to buy a Hummer this week with mine, the Mercedes was a bit pretentious.

  347. Yes, Ron, my apologies for leaving you out of the Holy Trinity of Anti-Polygamy Terror! We all know how all seeing and powerful you three are…when you aren’t posing as each other or being one in the same person! HA!!!!!

  348. I was just reading through my new issue of TEXAS MONTHLY which is supposed to list Texas’ top 100 attorneys in the article ATexas Super Lawyers but Natalie and TBM are not listed. How’d the magazine mess up? Didn’t they check with Mad Mudpucky first?

  349. Stamp, that’s how I’m paying for my 30 day cruise! My Fischer Fund! Gotta love the extra income!

  350. Damn, sometimes I feel like Luke Skywalker. I want to tell you why Darth Bill Medvecky is not as evil as he seems.

    First my take on Bill. I don’t think that Bill did anything that anyone can prove was truly evil. I suspect that CPS was leaning hard on Bill (which doesn’t prove anything, I can’t tell you how many times they’ve been wrong) and he decided to take something out of their files. While that’s not right or clearly not cool, it doesn’t make you exactly one of the members of the “axis of evil.”

    In any event whatever his “crime” he clearly has not repeated it nor gotten himself into a position where he’s run afoul of any of our current criminal laws. He has apparently lived the rest of his life free from any recidivism.

    None of this makes Bill some super nice guy, but is shows that he’s not evil or someone who must be “feared.”

    The point I’m trying to make is that while I’ll bet everyone disagrees with Bill, I think you disregard what he says at your own risk.

    He speaks with a certain street knowledge that I suspect none of you appreciate. I’m not saying that he’s 100% right, but I would never discount what he says.

    Personally I do listen to what he says and do factor it into any decision making process I apply to a particular situation.

    I may not agree, but just because I may not agree doesn’t mean that I shouldn’t listen.

  351. Agreeing with Ron about Bill. Cannot stand the foul language and over the top vulgarity, but I would not discount what he says. And the passion he shows in defending the FLDS people. Certainly not a popular stand to be taking these days.

  352. Well I have never seen one post that ever said CPS was always 100% right. Perusing that site, he comes off as saying they are 100% evil.

    And, he is carrying the baggage to make him want to feel that way.

    IRT religious extremists, its too bad that nearly 1,000 people died with Jim Jones, its a sad commentary that children can be whisked away by family members and harmed and even put to death.

    CPS is there for a reason, and guess who created the industry, thats right, irresponsible parents.

    Is CPS that out of control? In my personal experience, no. Oh, the internet is full of horror stories I’m sure, just as there are horror stories of abused and murdered children at the hands of their very parents.

    Or in the case of the FLDS, they allow child molestation and the parents and Church leaders join together as apparent ringleaders to those crimes.

    Do I think that children are safe behind the locked gate of the Zipper Ranch?


    Experience tells us so!

  353. Ron, I agree with you about Bill, he’s got a grain of truth in there somewhere, but picking it out and dusting off from the putrid surroundings is sometimes difficult. Then there’s the cupcake character. She’s a real dumb as dirt peach, so I mostly have to avoid reading her posts since she makes me want to poke my eyes out with her blind ignorance.

    I think Bill knows the truth about the FLDS and he’s trying to whitewash it for them because of his own experiences with CPS. Does this make him evil? Not really, but teaming up with Willie doesn’t make him a saint. You know, there’s a reason that Willie has a house in Angelo and doesn’t live on the ranch. He’s not qualified for Zion. They don’t want him around except when they need him to do their dirty work.

  354. Sorry but what this nutter does IS vicious with intent to do harm.

  355. Huesos, The Dynamic Trio asked that their super powers be kept off the list so they wouldn’t be over run with peons bugging them.

  356. Does anyone here really believe that Cupcake character is a nurse ?
    Didn’t she spell antibiotics “andabiotics” somewhere ? Maybe an LPN, but certainly not an RN.

  357. Bills mad legal skillz have gotten the FLDS – ZERO

  358. I dont think cupcake is a nurse, I think she does the laundry and dishes at an old folks home.

  359. I just looked at the top lawyers of 2010 list and none of the attorneys who are currently defending the FLDS are on the list.

  360. This is a pretty rough video but it shows what happens when you put people on a compound and brainwash them.

    Yeah, this is where the “drink the koolaid” saying came from.

    Note that Jim Jones was reduced to just another cadaver in just another coffin box.

  361. I remember reading that there was a basketball team from the cult who were playing a game away from the group. Several of the boys refused to return when ordered to do so by Jones. One might have even been his son.

    Cults are terrible things and usually end in tragedy.

  362. Indeed, they have a way of getting in trouble.

    Remember the Tony Alamo!

  363. I’m going to buy a Hummer this week with mine, the Mercedes was a bit pretentious.

    Stamp, where is my check from Dan ?
    I need to build an addition to my McMansion overlooking the ocean.

  364. anabodiacs

  365. I want checks more often, once a month isn’t enough. Let’s go for twice a month!!!

  366. Silly me, of course, anabodiacs – every nurse spells it that way. rrriiigghhhttt

  367. S*

    Didnt you give him your address yet? Think of all those checks, they have been piling up!

  368. To Deb Lees credit I dont think she ever claimed she was a registered nurse, just in the general profession.

    There are lots of other things to be done at nursing homes and sech.

    Gotta admit, her story of the two lesbians was pretty funny, the little one kicked the bigs one’s booty and they both quit!

  369. Yes, I need to give Dan my address so he can start sending me my back pay !

  370. Does Deb Lee = Cupcake?

  371. yep, she got the nickname for her thoughtful posts, and decided to keep it.

  372. I must have missed that tale, Stamp.

  373. Teehee I named her cupcake and she spent a good while hating it. And me. Whoever I was.

  374. OK

    Time for “you don’t know the power of the dark side” from Darth Ron in Houston.

    See, I’m a liberal. (Oh my God, katie bar the door!) I don’t like Greg Abbott.

    When I explained to the crowd over at Bill’s site that “Old Ironsides” was simply some guy who has a young person had a tree fall on him (I actually know the family that was responsible for the tree) she was one of the first to acknowledge that making fun of that was “not cool.”

    Cupcake gets that and supports me in my position.

    So, I give the lady credit. Sure I disagree with her, but she is a compassionate human being.

    If only you knew the POWER of the dark side….

  375. She told it on Bills because she got tired of him always calling lesbians and CPS dykes.

    I ROTFLMAO all day long on that one. The two met at Cupcakes work, had an affair, one day the little one got mad and beat up on the big one at work. Asta la Vista, girls!

  376. Sorry Ron, Cupcake’s prior postings on shooting members of the military do not put her in the category of “compassionate” for me.

  377. Ron her kind of compassion wished that Hasan had instead shot up Judge Walther’s courtroom. Her bigotry expands to all Texans, baptists, and most blacks.

  378. Only you have that power Ron, although you need to work harder on zxc. Maybe you could teach him to use a few more keys on the keyboard.

  379. I had a tree fall on me too, working for the government to boot.

    I got up and brushed myself off, no harm no foul.

  380. Yeah, I remember the day she posted that the shooter would have done better had he shot up Judge Walther’s courtroom. She can deny it all she wants, but she said it and should own up to it.

  381. Yeah, cupcake didnt say that once, she said it at least three times that I recall.

    And she wasnt the only one in that pile recommending violence.

  382. Cupcake clearly stated that she thought Hasan would have done us all a favor shooting up Judge Walther’s courtroom. I believe she said it more than once. As for her being compassionate, I don’t see it.

  383. Ron, what the hell are you smoking ? Cupcake compassionate ?
    Give me a break.

  384. About every few months I go on a donut crave. I don’t know what set it off but now is the hour o what shall I do?

  385. My word, a cult disaster worse than jonestown.

  386. Look, we’re all good and bad.

    The reality is don’t cast stones unless you want them thrown back at you.

    It’s funny. The only person I will accuse of 100% evil is Hugh McBryde. (Crap, he admitted it when I talked to him. “I”m evil.” He said.)

    EVERYBODY else has their good and their bad. Anybody want to say Bill Medvecky is “bad?” Well, then expect a major FU from this guy who could cite clear examples of why the guy is not “evil.”

    I suspect this comes from my relativism, there really is no “good” nor “bad.” They are merely some data points on a spectrum that people label “good” or “bad.”

    However, someone who when told over and over that “yes, you can likely find out who I am, but please respect my request for privacy” persists is an evil fuck tard who deserves nothing but scorn from everybody on both sides of these issues. The guy clearly doesn’t give a shit about anyone other than himself.

    If you piss him off, he’ll throw you under the bus. That’s very clear to me. So, you guys that want to embrace a “snake” feel free. Just don’t complain when the snake bites you.

  387. Let me say this:

    You, I and everyone else have massive “blind sides” There would be no need for words like “cognitive dissonance” if we all say things 100% clearly.

    Granted, some of us have greater degrees of “cognitive dissonace” than others. However, it doesn’t change the fact that we all suffer from the “cognitive dissonance” malady.

  388. Now there is a jerk we all can agree on, Ron !

  389. About every few months I go on a donut crave. I don’t know what set it off but now is the hour o what shall I do?

    Toad, consider Dunkin Donuts. They are usually open late.

  390. Guys

    I’m one of those Secular Buddhists remember? See I see all of you getting overly attached to your beliefs. I have compassion for Cupcake. She’s like everyone else, a very “mixed bag.”

    She at least gets that making fun of a guy who is now in a wheelchair since he had a tree fall on him when he was young is not cool.

    Do I think the woman is a “saint?” Hell no. But then again, I don’t think anyone over here is a “saint” either.

  391. I strive to be a “jerk” we can all agree upon.

    Call it my life’s mission.

  392. sorry Ron, Hugh already occupies that position.
    You will have to strive for something else

  393. Damn

    Dammit to hell

  394. anon 10:47 I don’t know where one is and I don’t want to put on shoes and a bra and go driving dangit. I bet there are donuts within 20 miles!

  395. Come on guys. I need your FU’s. Those ultimately end up as “street cred.”

    How can I claim status as abused and mistreated unless I can show it?

    Heap it upon me. You need to heap it in massive doses.

  396. Wow. I lose internet access for a few hours, then go out to hear some live music, and you folks have a chat fest. I’ll have to catch up tomorrow.

  397. I’m deeply upset that you don’t think I’m a “saint” Ron. Please say it ain’t so.

  398. Where’s Fred when you need him.

    Paging Fred, RiH is in need of a few FU’s.

  399. Granny, life’s tough when ya can’t even get donuts. My advice is to by some and freeze them, then they’ll always be available for an emergency.

  400. Granny,
    Just go braless and shoeless to Dunkin Donuts.
    Wear an overcoat. No one will notice


    I hate to do this,but you asked for it.


    Love, Fred

  401. Oh, no, no. None of you mess with me tonight. I’m not in the mood. If you want to mess with me, read this first.

  402. Oh Ron, that was beautiful, I take my FU back.
    Pure genius that post was.

  403. Has Toad gone for donuts ? Where is she ?

  404. OMG

    I know that apparently I “control” you guys.

    You evil a$$hats are nothing more than my sycophants.

    I’d love to claim your collective hatred for people that view sex with 14 year old girls as socially acceptable but unfortunately I cant.

    My advice to you? Be active. When you see dickheads like Vulture, don’t be afraid to speak out. If the (deleted) tries to suppress your free speech rights then send an email to his employer an ask them if they support Michael Fulmer’s positions on sex with 12 year old girls.

    These dickheads deserve it. Go for it.

  405. Hey Mike – where do you work? Want to play anymore with me?

  406. The greatest irony to this?

    I’m a freaking pacifist.

    However, there comes a point where you can even piss off a pacifist.

    I will say this. Don’t be evil. However, sometimes the only way to stop evil is to meet it with evil of equal or stronger force.

    Sometimes evil (deleted) -tards need to be smacked down. I’m must aaying….

  407. Ron, I have to say that Medvecky seems to fit the same mold as Hugh. He has altered posts to make people look bad. He has outed IP and email informaton because he didn’t like my posts. He COULD have a valid platform to point out the excesses and stupidity of CPS but chooses instead to be vindictive, petty and an outright liar. He really doesn’t care about anyone but himself either.

    I get what you’re saying — he’s probably not ALL bad. He seems to care for his grandchildren. Heck, Merril seemed to care about Barbara. Very few people are truely evil. But Medvecky is a small minded, lying, cheating, abusing asshole and I don’t see a thing good about him. I also find his frequent attempts at character assassination pathetic, vindictive and frequently outright dishonest. Heck, the man doesn’t even correct his lies when called on them. He just deletes the post, outs emails and goes on to his next lie.

    As for Deb Lee, the best I can say for her is that she’s confused and hasn’t got any more of a clue than Medvecky how to say “Hey, I said something stupid — I was wrong.” It really isn’t that hard and the more you use those words the less they sting. 😉

  408. Well Ron, I read that bit and, frankly — I’m baffled. I’m not sure who was talking to who, where, when or why. But I’m glad you all had a chance to express yourselves. 😀

  409. Ah Rebeckah, many times anger rules over common sense.

    However, the first point is that Bill despite how people view him as “vile” is much more a complex character.

    There are many posts he makes where I agree with his fundamental premise.

    In the end I can’t say I “support” him, but I also can’t say that his points are not valid.

    Honestly as a matter of fact, I find myself agreeing with him often.

    So, on a certain level, I’m a defender of Bill. I won’t defend the totality of his character, but the guy in the long run has treated me with dignity and respect. So, I hope folks will consider that in the totality of their evaluation of Bill.

    Now, I’ll contrast Bill with the “evil loser club.” See, I explained to Hugh McBryde that I wanted to remain anonymous. I told him the exact reasons why I wanted to remain anonymous. Not only that but I then spoke out vigorously against those how felt it would be appropriate to contact his wife.

    Well apparently Hugh has no respect for anyone other than his narcissistic self. Not only has he posted personal information about me, but then the spineless bastard got his proxies to start libeling me.

    So, where I am now is willing to fight against the proxies. See, no one can fire me. I work for myself. However, if Michael Fulmer of Frederick Maryland wants to screw with me and call me an “asshole” well perhaps his employer needs to see how he’s spending his time at work.

    See, I didn’t start this fight with these assholes. However, if they want to fight, then I’m more than willing to get it on with them.

    In the end, all I want is to be left alone. I think another of Hugh’s proxies get’s that and actually respects it. I have no problem at all with him. After resolving our disputes, the guy has treated me with a fair degree of dignity and respect. I more than intent to repay that in kind.

    The bottom line with Ron is that he doesn’t want to hurt anyone. You leave me alone, and I’ll be more than happy to leave you alone. I actually don’t necessarily agree with the 75 year sentence for Michael Emacks. I don’t disagree with it, but I do appreciate that 75 years is an awful long time. Really, is the guy that evil that he deserves to be locked away the rest of his life? Like I say, whether you agree or disagree, that is a very harsh sentence. The bottom line is that I don’t disagree with the premise of the guy being punished I’m just not sure that 75 years is really in the long term interests of society.

    Obviously folks feel quite strongly on both sides of that issue, and I’ll let all you guys have at it. I’m just not certain that from a public policy standpoint it’s wise.

  410. Actually, Ron, I agree with much of what you’ve said. For instance, one of my beefs with Bill is that his lies and maliciousness actually detract from the very real points of CPS abuse — and I’m perfectly well aware that it happens. I think CPS needs neutral oversight and I was pretty disappointed at the “hearing” about the actions of CPS in Texas. It could have been an opportunity to grow as an organization and instead turned into an ass-covering party. I don’t like that.

    However Bill may have treated you, though, he DIDN’T treat me with respect. He hasn’t treated Natalie Malonis, Barbara Walthers or countless others with respect. I can’t respect that. It is the sign of a small, petty, insecure and vindictive human being. BUT, I have my own axe to grind and I don’t expect you to grind it too.

    As for Emack’s 75 year sentence — I think it is good in one respect; that it has undoubtedly sent a message to people that this sort of thing is highly risky. However, I sincerely hope it is reduced to something closer to the other men’s on appeal. And I REALLY hope someone gets around to a Constitutional Ammendment giving children the rights that people like Hugh and others would like to deny them.

  411. So Fuller is one of Hughs new girlfriends? Who knew?

  412. Ron

    ” I actually don’t necessarily agree with the 75 year sentence for Michael Emacks. I don’t disagree with it, but I do appreciate that 75 years is an awful long time. Really, is the guy that evil that he deserves to be locked away the rest of his life? Like I say, whether you agree or disagree, that is a very harsh sentence.”


    I think that was Leroy Jessop who won the biggest prize? I have read many blogs that talk about sex offenders, and why the hell they were ever let out in the first place.

    Now, you might say, “hell, theses guys are just molesting each others children, in their little culture, its what they do”.

    Well, they have taken some knocks now, and STILL there is no faith the children will be treated right. The boys will keep getting booted, and the girls, well, we know how they feel about girls.

    Funny thing is? Whether they get 10 years of 75, I havent seen one of them show one bit of remorse.

    Maybe if they rang the bell like the Tony Alamo sentence of 150 years they will finally get it.

  413. regarding Bill, rarely read his threads, so I dont even know how valid they are. Even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while tho.

    If he does something good for kids, good for him, but I’m not convinced thats his real motive.

    A while back, he said he was going to a CPS hearing to support the parents in getting their other children back – after they had given other girls to Tony Alamo as sex toys.

    So no, I think he just has a hard on for CPS and it blinds his reasoning. Thats just one opinion though.

    Surely you dont think its OK for parents to be in control of small children when they have previously given their other children away as sex toys.

  414. Chaps

    I don’t know exactly what to do about “religion.” On one hand we really don’t want intolerance and don’t want one religion trying to exterminate the other.

    On the other hand, society can’t really tolerate the behaviors when religion goes bad.

  415. I hear you, however from what I’ve seen, no one wants to exterminate any religion – thats just an unfounded fear.

    The FLDS are afraid of this, and may cause it to come down on them, if they wander through time saying “child molesting is how operate, its our personal religious freedom, take it or leave it”

    At that point, the “religion” likely will be dealt with, at least with those people who participate in the crimes.

    As with a lot of religions, there are a ton of children, and they need protection from that.

  416. RIH,
    I, like you, am a relatavist and see that rarely is there a person so lacking in good qualities that they could be called “evil”. It seems to me that the issue is, as you point out, how well we respect personal boundaries and legal boundaries. The degree to which how much we are “good” counts is where the judge (in some states) has leeway with the sentence.

    Anyway wrt to Bill and Ms. Lee. Bill does NOT respect boundaries with respect to any one working on the “anti” FLDS side (remember the publishing of the home address of individuals who were fostering FLDS children?). He may not be evil and he may have some good intentions but he certainly is not a person who treats others with respect.

    WRT to Ms. Lee – she carries significant baggage some of which she has alluded to in her postings. Yes she WANTS to be compassionate and she trys, in her own way, but she has not yet traveled far enough in her own journey to actually OWN compassion because her compassion strikes me as a “if I say the sweet things I am a sweet person” but she really does not feel compassion for a large segment of those people whom she comments on…

  417. I think Rebeckah has said it very well. I also like this sentence

    “If he does something good for kids, good for him, but I’m not convinced thats his real motive.”

    See, I think that what both he and Cupcake have in common is that they do not have a moral compass at all. Their “morality” comes from joining a group or club. IMHO, Bill is very busy trying to convince himself that he is a good guy and everyone in the foster child/CPS/policeman club are 100% evil. Bill argues for parents to get their kids back without regard to the validity of the claims against the parents. Also, if a parent kills a child, then the fault is with CPS for not taking the children away from the parent. So no matter what, the parent is fine and it’s CPS who is wrong. He’s still trying to prove to himself or the world that he was right and the state of NY was wrong when he was put in jail.

    And Bill has been quick to publically disclose the lives of children of his own enemies, with pictures, etc. He does harm deliberately and explicitly. The only difference between him and Hugh is that Bill has not come after YOU, which makes me doubt just how objective you are at judging people.

    I agree that everyone has good and bad in them and it’s a sliding scale. I just arbitrarily draw lines on that scale and then I try to avoid people on the other side of that line.

  418. Also, you have no information on whether or not Bill has had “recidivism”. All you know is that he has not gotten caught again. Bill thinks of children as being sexy and accuses everyone he doesn’t like of acting upon that. He projects pedophilia onto almost anyone, mostly males. He projects not just sexual deviance, but specifically with children. He thinks all of us are only interested in the FLDS because the stories of abuse excite us sexually. IMHO, that jaundiced view of the world can only come from someone who is excited by children and abuse of the innocent. Not a nice guy. He makes insults to people about thoughts that would never even occur to 95% of the general population. WAAAY over that arbitrary line of mine.

  419. Good morning. I went to bed without donuts. It was Leroy not Mike Emack who got 75 years FROM HIS JURY. Now back to soaking up coffee.

  420. BIG RANT. SORRY to all who have heard this way too many times.

    To Hugh and The Fall of Reynolds, whoever that might be in reference to your post on Malonis and TBM.

    The trail for accomplice to rape was not overturned on a constitutional basis; if that were the case, there would have been no recommendation of a retrial. Nor did the court think that the man was innocent, or there would have been no apology to the victim for her continued suffering. Nope, it was returned for retrial on a procedural basis of jury instructions. So, TBM was not wrong; TFoR is wrong.

    No one is slinking away with their tails between their legs; the anti-polygamy crowd has a very rich sense of fantasy and very little information about anything real. Why is it not obvious that those who want to maintain their anonymity (like many of the pro-polygamy, pro-FLDS crowd who use pseudonyms without being attacked by their buddies) might not appreciate aggressive stalking and thus TBM might just have closed down his blog because he can’t be bothered with protecting himself from the ongoing craziness? He might even be trying to protect Sgt Prickett and any other innocent bystanders, like Prickett’s hapless daughter whose only sin seems to be that she could be found on the internet by a crazy housewife with way too much time on her hands. The same housewife who harassed Rozita’s former employer for no particular reason except that she could do so. Hugh thought at some time in the past that I might know someone important in this case, and he was angry at me for disagreeing with him publically and not taking my instructions like a good female, so he stalked me for awhile! My reaction was to ignore him when I saw him online 99% of the time. That seemed to work. Does that mean Hugh was in some way right? No. It means that I recognized that Hugh is crazier and more dangerous than I am and I want nothing to do with him.

    Speaking of being inhabited by demons…

    People who believe that marrying 12 year olds (with or without sexual consummation) is harmful to the autonomy and mental and physical health of the child are not inhabited by demons. Nor are they supporting laws and policies that are unconstitutional. The constitution confers upon the state governments the right to set laws pertaining to family law. Just because you think that ending the innocence of a child is a trivial matter that should not be controlled by law does not mean that you can just ignore the law and get away with it. Nor does the fact that you engage in religious mumbo-jumbo make your sexual behavior any more or less illegal than anyone else who is prosecuted for the same behavior.

    Whether or not you like the law that says it is a crime to perform an illegal ceremony, it is still the law. One reason why I think it is a valid law, is that illegal ceremonies confer upon those involved the illusion that they have legal standing commensurate with a real, legal ceremony and thus the performance of such a ceremony is a fraud. If these girls had not had ceremonies, they might have noticed that they were being raped by older men not of their own choosing before they were old enough to drive a car or sign a contract in their own names.

    You don’t hear stoned people acting all surprised and talking about conspiracies when they are arrested while smoking in their cars. They don’t go on about how their constitutional rights to pursuit of happiness have been violated and this whole law is persecution from jealous Baptists who think they are having too much fun. Even people doing drugs, folks, do not think “That law is stupid, I can just ignore it without consequences because my opinion is sovereign and superior to the laws of the state where I live. They are wrong and when I point that out to them the error of their ways, they will release me.” Cause there is no drug that will do that to your brain, but apparently there are religions that will. Speaking of hubris…Work openly to change the law, or STFU!

    There is no proof that one of the 12 year olds in question is a virgin, certified so by an unbiased medical professional. Where on earth did you get that idea, Medvecky’s blog? I believe that when the trial begins you will find that information to be very much false. As much as I’d love to see the “slinking off with tails between legs” begin for real, I bet when the truth comes out and is undeniable to anyone sane, this same crowd will be denying it, claiming the police made the tape and falsified the DNA, the dictations, the photographs, the marriage ‘certificates’ and letters. For reasons I don’t understand the idea that this preacher was keeping 12 year old girls on ice to have sex with them when they became ripe at some undefined point in the future (and that that is somehow one holy and based in family values and two legal or should be) is so appealing to some folks that they just unwilling to give it up.

    But why am I trying to talk logic to people who so obviously want nothing to do with it? I have work of my own to do.

  421. Toad,
    Why not go out and buy a whole box of donuts now, eat one or two, and freeze the rest, so that you won’t find yourself in this predicament again ?

  422. S,

    Toad is diabetic and has a love/hate relationship with sugar. It’s a recurring theme.

  423. Toad,
    Scratch that recommendation on the donuts.
    I have to help you resist in the future.

  424. Toad, please avoid donuts like the plague. 🙂

    My friend who is diabetic (and has NOT been watching her blood sugar) was told, very gently, by her new doctor; “Diabetis sugar coats your insides and your insides don’t like to be sugar coated.” Thankfully, she’s listening to him. (I’ve been desperately worried about her and neuropathy and other horrible consequences. She’s had blood sugars up to 300 recently but she’s down in a livable range now.)

    My little off topic rant for today. I care about you, GrannyToad, so take care of yourself. My doctor tells me I worry too much as it is. 🙂

  425. I agree granny, watch out for donuts, I want you healthy and around for a long time to come.

  426. ‘Diabetis (sic) sugar coats your insides and your insides don’t like to be sugar coated.”

    I’ve never tried explaining it in that fashion.
    I’ll try it and let you know how it goes.

  427. Thank you all, lovely people. It’s why I went to bed donutless, braless and shoeless as usual last night. But I had 2 kitties to purr me off to sleep.

  428. good for you, Toad.

  429. I did some research and discovered that kitties are good for you. Purring kitties are even MORE good for you. Thus sayeth I.

    S*, I believe the doctor used the term “candy coats” instead of “sugar coats”. I was posting way past my bedtime. 🙂

  430. Toad

    Do tell. I’m type 2 using insulin to control mine.

    I hate it when my sugar goes high. It makes me so lethargic I can barely move.

  431. It’s crap to have to inject Novolog just to eat, not counting the daily insulin and stick for blood sugar checks all day every day. It flat sucks and I dunno if I’m winning or not but I still have that thought bubble following me around with a couple of glazed donuts in it today.

  432. Toad

    I have a product endorsement. Get the new One Tough Delica lancing device and lances. The thing is simply awesome. I can’t feel it sticking me.

    I picked it up last week and I’m sold on it. It is hands down the best lancing device I’ve ever used.

  433. Thanks Ron, I’ll look for the new Delica.

  434. Well, I’m severely allergic to wheat,and about twenty other things. No, I’m not gluten intolerant/celiac and yes, I have been tested seven ways from Sunday and don’t have Crohn’s or cancer, either. And I have IBS and am thus very sensitive to fatty foods. Have had touchy stomach since birth. Almost died multiple times before I ever attended school.

    A donut therefor, is a death bomb for me. If the wheat does not put me into a wheezing, red faced, hives kind of fit, then the grease will leave me in the fetal position bargaining with God before too long. The good part of this is that it’s like aversion therapy. Donuts make me curl my lips in disgust. The last donut like thing I ate was a beignet, in the French quarter, which I ate with my emergency inhaler and a benedryll already pulled out from my purse. It was really not worth it. It’s just friend bread, after all.

    If’ I’m going to take in that much fat and calories, I’d rather have really good cheese cake or flourless chocolate cake.

  435. very sensible advice !
    there is a new natural sweetener for baking which is available called “Stevia in the Raw”
    It is suitable for diabetics.
    You can include it in your recipes as a substitute for sugar.
    It had previously been available only in little packets for coffee, tea, etc.
    I tried it as a substitute in my baking last week and it worked well.

  436. I think scotch doesn’t have carbs.

  437. unfortunately for you, it does, Toad.

  438. Calories yes, but carbohydrates? Wouldn’t that be tough to do?

  439. no Toad, the alcohol is metabolized as a carbohydrate.

  440. there is a small amount of carbohydrate in scotch which is metabolized to sugar, but the problem for the diabetic is that drinking scotch can lead to extremely low blood sugar (hypoglycemia) after the liver metabolizes it. there are calories also in the scotch, remember that

  441. here is a brief statement on the effect of scotch on blood sugar – it can drive blood sugar to dangerously low levels :

  442. Well folks you are judged by the company you keep.

    William Roy Jessop just confirmed this.

  443. How so, Anonymous ?

  444. Anon @7:49, You mean because he’s taken up with Mudpuppy?

    Real peaches aren’t they.

    Just read something over at the Fall of Reynolds or some dribble like that where he states that Merrianne was confirmed a virgin by medical doctors. Did I miss something? That’s the first I heard about it except from Mudpuppy’s vivid imagination.

    Reynolds, Hugh and the rest of them are going to be real surprised when Warren’s trial comes along. Actually, it could all come out at Merril’s.

  445. Toad,
    This is for you : A brief summary on the effect of almost – pure alcohol drinks (like scotch) on blood sugar :

    The liver has this special ability. It is called gluconeogenesis. This gluconeogenesis is a process where the liver releases glucose from its glycogen store. The liver gets the glucose by two different ways. One is the excess glucose from a meal or snack will be stored in a reservoir in the liver in the form of glucogen. The liver can also make glucose from fat and proteins. This storage of glucose is useful in the event of a low blood sugar. When the body senses a low blood sugar, it sends a signal to the liver to release glucose to slow down or prevent a severe reaction.

    Alcohol inhibits the liver to release glucose. How does this happen. Well, about 5 minutes after consuming and alcoholic beverage, the alcohol goes from the stomach into the blood stream. At about 90 minutes the blood alcohol level is at its highest. The stomach does not break down alcohol. The liver takes care of that job. The body recognized alcohol as toxic. The liver works very hard to break it down and get rid of all the alcohol. This can take a long time, up to eight hours or greater. Therefore this increases the risk of a severe low blood sugar. This also means that you may not have a low blood sugar until 8 hours later.

    While the liver is working on getting rid of alcohol, the liver shuts off the feature of releasing glucose. The enzymes in the liver are occupied with the break down of alcohol. There fore, in the event of a low blood sugar, no glucose is released. This can lead to a faster more severe hypoglycemia (aka low blood sugar).

    Part Two: Intoxicated and Diabetes

    Being diabetic means you need to be aware of your body needs. You also need to be in a state that you can think clearly. You need to be able to take the correct dosages of insulin or other medications, test your blood sugar, and be aware of how you are overall felling. You don’t want to be intoxicated and take the wrong dose of medication or none at all and then have more problems on your hands to deal with. One of the most important things you need to be aware of is a low blood sugar. If you have too much to drink, you lose these features, just like you cannot operate a car or other machinery correctly and appropriately. There have actually even been some deaths related to diabetics being intoxicated and unaware of hypoglycemia.

  446. Yes, PT, that post was so full of EPIC FAIL that I hardly knew where to start, but I did have a full fledged rant earlier today on it.

  447. I already knew the liver involvement. But scotch hasn’t any carbs to speak of. It’s a distillate of a well known process of turning carbs into alcohol.

  448. Anon @7:49, You mean because he’s taken up with Mudpuppy?


  449. Toad,
    The carbohydrate content varies by brand. Some brands have none, some have in the order of 7 – 10 grams.
    I can find a link for you.

  450. I’ve turned just about anything except stuff like wood chips or poison ivy into alcohol.

  451. I may still have my old hydrometer packed away around here somewhere, who knows. Say did you know that a good candymaking or air conditioning thermometer can be used to tell your height above mean sea level by boiling fresh water? Fun stuff to do in the kitchen.

  452. I don’t make donuts any more either.

  453. You are impressive, Toad –

    I don’t drink the stuff myself. Here is a list of the spirits which have been confirmed to be “zero carb” but they are still not advisable for diabetics.

  454. What is William Jessop doing specifically ?

  455. Betty,
    I saw your post this am on the “epic fail” – well written.
    So if polygamy is no longer a criminal act, what is to prevent your spouse from marrying someone else, since bigamy would no longer be a crime ?

  456. Please continue on Open Discussion #38

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