Open Discussion #32

Continued from Open Discussion #31

Lots of things going on,  May 2010

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on May 8, 2010.

502 Responses to “Open Discussion #32”

  1. So last night I met someone who was telling me about the creek,
    they are giving “Crane Rides” out there.

    which means they swing children around while they are attached to the end of a huge crane. I wonder what kind of insurance they carry, or do they really care if one or two fall off?

    Then I heard its true, all the kids pretty much run amok and injure themselves in whatever way is available at the moment.

    I guess its fun, if you survive.

  2. Hey, Stamp, yep. There it is. What most people fail to realize is that there are just as many Muslims engaging in the illegal practice of polygamy in this country as white fundie Mormons and other independent or “Christian” groups.

    Ask France and Denmark what happens when you allow the Muslim population to function under a completely separate law from the rest of their citizens…

  3. I’ve heard slavery exists in many (often muslim) states too… why am I not surprised.

    I would like to hear those young girls tell us how slavery helps impoverished people rise up and how its good for them whether they realize it or not!

    And Muhammed thinks its OK too!

  4. “Kola Boof, the former sex slave of Osama bin Laden, is writing for the NBC soap opera ”Days of Our Lives”.

    In 2003, Boof had to pull her son out of school after rumours were spreading that bin Laden was his father. Boof claims that she was held prisoner and was forced to have sex with bin Laden in 1996 when she was pursuing an acting career in North Africa. She adds that he raped her and forced her to live with him for four months at a hotel in Morocco.

    She escaped to Spain and in 1998 bin Laden threatened to kill her after reading her book of poetry, which was critical of Islam. She has also been marked for death by the Sudanese-based National Islamic Front in response to her writings condemning slavery in Sudan and the ill-treatment of African women.”

    http://www.indiadaily.com/editorial/10238.asp

  5. Next they could explain how Mohamed thinks its okay to tax infidels and charge them high interest, but you cannot tax a Muslim or charge him ANY interest.

    Perhaps someone could ask the Coptic Christians in Egypt how “fair” Islam is to them….matter of fact, wasn’t that girl yammering on about how at first she “didn’t think it was fair”?

    But then of course she jumped to the erudite [cough cough] conclusion that “I don’t have to understand, because Mohamed said so”.

    Yes yes…let’s all rush to join a religion where we’re required to suspend all of our more rational thoughts in favor of our men telling us what to do and how to think… This is a great direction for bright young American women…just great…

  6. I thought I would re post this, in case anyone missed the opportunity to view the link in the transition to a new open discussion.

    It contains two beautiful, apparently bright and articulate American girls preaching polygyny.

    Never mind that this behavior is a felony, the prophet says it’s “OK”.

    Where have we heard this before?

    What is the big picture?

    When will American women “get it” that there is a growing threat to our rights as human beings?

    “It is HIS RIGHT to have 4 wives”.

    If they came up to me and started this nonsense I’d only have one thing to say, “Welcome to Texas, wanna bet”?

  7. Boots & Stamp,

    Kola Boof was no doubt declared to be a “temporary wife” under Sharia law.
    Therefore, he could not rape her, it was his right.
    Just ask him.

  8. Anon hans solo, They did at one point have rides in the buckets of an excavator, but never a crane. and that was years ago, I haven’t seen it done since they quit doing the “October Fest”, which was at least 7-8 years ago

  9. Yeeeha

    This was in the past two weeks. Eye witnessed from a trusted friend. No, they didnt take pictures. Maybe next time.

  10. The photos of the children overloading ATVs in violation of several laws should be sufficient though. Seems like anything goes in fantasy land.

  11. Thanks for this great site!

  12. Now that’s a possum of a different hue.

  13. Anon hans sol

    Your up in night so your friends, its not crane and it hasn’t happen 4 many years

  14. peek a boo???? Guess I don’t understand FLDS slang, can you translate please? “Your up in night so your friends,”?????? “its not crane”?????

  15. I think what he meant to say was “you’re up in the night and so are your friends, it’s not a crane and hasn’t happened for many years”

  16. So the flds apparently allow their children to engage in dangerous playtime activities, marry physically and emotionally immature girls to men the age of their fathers and grandfathers, allow those girls to beecome impregnated at 13-15 years old and shortfall both genders in education. They also, as exemplified by merril jessop, do not support their children who have left the cult. Ole deadbeat dad merril does not even pay child support while under a court order to do so. What a lousy scumbag, may his sorry rear end be thrown in jail!!

  17. peek a boo

    I think the crane operator’s name was George Jessop if I recall correctly, call him up and ask him.

    Also, the FLDS say they don’t allow child brides any more and they dont allow children to drive ATV’s anymore either.

    Did you see the photos of the kids on ATV’s in the creek?

    Well, I would guess when the Sheriff starts making a full time presence there, they will no longer be running amok without a care in the world.

    Civilization will come before long. Its not 1835 any more.

  18. thanks, hans solo

    Why don’t they want us to know?

    A baby cemetery ?

  19. To all of the moms out there, happy Mother’s Day!

  20. Yes, I agree, a Happy Mothers Day to all the Mom’s out there!

    And a prayer for the young mothers who were forced into it by their family, friends and Church leaders.

  21. peek a boo

    “Your up in night so your friends, its not crane and it hasn’t happen 4 many years”

    +++++++++++++

    You were homeschooled, right? Warren has been away 4 many years to, he is up in night with friends, not for crane, they wont be no more, children.

    Texas said and proving.

  22. Well, Abram Harker Jeffs has a pretrial coming up on the 13th. Any takers on him pleading out like his 1/2 nephew Lehi Barlow Jeffs did? If he does plead out, should he get more time that Lehi?

  23. Sure. The longer they take to get on with it, the longer they should sit behind bars.

    Dontcha think?

  24. You were homeschooled, right? Warren has been away 4 many years to, he is up in night with friends, not for crane, they wont be no more, children.
    Texas said and proving.
    ……………………..

    Is it just me, or does this make no sense at all.

  25. ProudTexan, I’ll take that bet that Abram will plead out and I’ll raise you a stick of gum that he will get a longer sentence than Lehi got.

    Just a gut (stick of gum) feeling about the next sentence.

    They seem to need to save the tithings for the big guns like newly appointed President Wendell and Deadbeat Dad Merril. OOO yeah and for Profit Warren when he finally makes it to Texas for his moment of justice.

    Peons in the FLDS are expendable. The powers that be aren’t – not at least in their indoctrination beliefs.

    The high ranking “men of god” hold all of the priesthood keys, so they deserve the “tithing dollars for lawyers” and the rest be damned.

    In such a cult society it is usually about power and corruption, so I guess that those who have the most power and commit the most corruption expect to walk away with the most loot, booty and impregnable underage pootooty.

  26. FLDS Texan Admin,
    Will you please start a new thread about Carolyn Jessops’s new book “Triumph”?

    I am half way through reading it and know that others posting on this blog currently are or have already finished reading this memoir.

    Thanks so munch in advance for covering this important factual book on the YFZ raid.

  27. What a good book. I finished it in one night.

    I’d love to know the story behind why Ranger Long asked Carolyn if she’d ever been in an setting where she had an intimate relationship with other people watching. (Page 14)

    And dear Brooke needs to know that Carolyn has a bigger bully pulpit than she does. Same goes for Rod-knee. Get ’em Carolyn.

  28. This may have been discussed before but I’ve just found this site.
    My daughter taught school in a small town in Idaho about 15 years ago. There were several LDS mothers whose “husbands” worked out of town, and could come home only once a month or so. It was an “open secret” that these were polygamist families. Even a school board member talked of them. (obviously not LDS) When my daughter said she ” thought LDS didn’t practice polygamy” she was rapidly told it was VERY widespread through-out the Western US. To me, this is why Utah dosen’t want to get involved with the FLDS problem. They are in to the same acts. BTW, I’m half-way through “TRIUMPH” and it is intresting. Not as riveting as “ESCAPE”. I enjoy MOST of the discussions.

  29. Anon E Mouse

    Thats homeschool code. You probably went to a real school hence you cant understand.

    But not to worry, peek a boo knows what I said!

  30. The actress who played Abbie on LA Law has written a novel about polygamy as practiced by the FLDS. Her book is geared towards a “young adult” audience and it is called Keep Sweet

    How appropriate!

    http://blogcritics.org/books/article/an-interview-with-michele-dominguez-greene/

  31. Carolyn’s book should be in my mailbox any day now, I can’t wait 🙂

  32. I have only 2 more chapters to read in “Triumph” (got my copy Monday). I dare say Carolyn named the book right; she really has triumphed since she escaped the FLDS. I have found great inspiration from what she wrote in the 2nd part of her book, and my life is pretty good!

    Unbelievable what a POS Merril really is and what a terribly dysfunctional family he has. I now understand why he has such issues paying her child support – he doesn’t give a damn about her children and he doesn’t want to financially support them now that they are not around for him to torment and manipulate.

    Too bad Merril, spite doesn’t permit you to be a deadbeat dad. Oh, to be a fly on the wall in the courtroom on May 20th.

    You go Carolyn!

  33. Well, Abram’s pretrial is tomorrow along with Leroy’s Motion for New Trial. Can’t wait to see what happens in the 51st Judicial District Courtroom.

  34. My screen’s excited, I need some good readin’.

  35. The san Angelo newspaper has a writeup on pretrial hearings for several FLDS memnbers.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/may/12/five-on-pretrial-docket/

    Wonder if any will plea guilty and not have trial?

  36. GrannyToad,

    Throw on a pot of coffee and crack open the Eldorado Success. You’re going to be one happy [so far burqa free] froggie.

    Three words: Prior Bad Acts

  37. Ain’t no dang frog. Frogs is Rana. Toads is Bufo.

  38. I’d love to know the story behind why Ranger Long asked Carolyn if she’d ever been in an setting where she had an intimate relationship with other people watching. (Page 14)

    I suspect that Miele’s question may be answered during the Texas trial of Warren Jeffs.

    “Heavenly sessions”

    By his own account, at least one of Warren’s wives (not an underage one) conceived a child during a “heavenly session.”

    Plural of his wives were present during many of his “heavenly sessions.”

    Group sex, anyone?

    And yes, some of his underage wives were included in “heavenly sessions.”

  39. Boots,

    Re: Abram Jeffs bad acts

    Incest when he impregnated his stepmother.

    Structuring payments to Griffin Fuels to avoid reporting.

    Interesting.

    Two instances of providing a false address — one to the state of Texas when applying for a driver’s license and one to the Department of Transportation when registering his trucking company.

    Other items also listed in the Success.

    Betcha the bad boy of the month pleads today.

  40. To add some additional texture to the wife of Warren’s who he said conceived in a “heavenly session,” she was also his stepmother.

    I guess we can expect “incest” to appear as one of Warren’s bad acts when his number comes due.

  41. Those baddies jolted my keyboard.

  42. District Courts Calendar
    co.tom-green.tx.us
    Last Updated on: May 10, 2010

    995 The State of Texas VS Merril Leroy Jessop MOTION FOR NEW TRIAL/REQUEST FOR APPT’D. COUNSEL
    E.Nichols/D.Hurley/B.Hudson

    Does this mean he is asking for a public defender?

  43. Merril Leroy Jessop received the stiffest sentence of any of the FLDS perps so far – 75 years. Maybe he is rethinking his strategy after seeing other FLDS men plead guilty and get seven-year or eight-year sentences. I’m not sure though – isn’t it far too late for his to change his plea?

  44. juliekan, that’s how I interpret it.

  45. I think prosecutors are starting to see that they don’t have to settle for 7 year plea bargains.

  46. If you happen to be in the NYC area next week, consider joining myself and the lovely Greetings from NY at Cornelia Street Cafe in Greenwich Village for our annual “Night of the Tin Foil Hats Gala.”
    Tin Foil Hat Attire is optional, of course…
    If you are available, and are in our area, you are more than welcome to join us.
    FLDS Texas Admins, if you know of anyone who is available and interested, email me….
    Thanks

  47. Oh how funny. Sounds like quite a happening! I wish I could be there for the gala. Drink a toast for me, out of a tin foil hat of course.

  48. TexasTwist,
    Where did Warren write about wife of Warren’s who he said conceived in a “heavenly session,” she was also his stepmother.

    I’d really like to read that dictation! Can you copy and paste it?

  49. FLDSTexas admin, can you get a copy of Abram Harker Jeffs’ “prior bad acts” filing? Those are some doozies!

  50. Anon at 11:07 AM:

    I haven’t seen the dictation itself but I have read about it in news articles: http://cbs11tv.com/local/polygamy/polygamist.ranch.polygamy.2.975295.html

    “Jeffs recorded that at least two of his children were conceived during his so-called “heavenly sessions,” times when he said God gave him revelations. (In other heavenly sessions, he had as many as five wives massaging his arms, legs and head.)”

  51. Anon 11:07,

    I’ll see if I can run it down over the next coming days.

    The wife I am thinking of is one of Frank Russell Johnson’s daughters. She was one of Rulon’s young wives who married Warren, thus his stepmother. Two of her sisters are/were also married to Warren.

    ellie,

    Good read. Written in April 2009. I’ve lost count of convictions/pleas. How many have since become guilty under the law of sexual assault? Five? And all the way up to 75 years.

    Anyone hearing anything out of today’s hearings?

  52. Schedules set, motions filed for FLDS members

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/may/13/schedules-set-motions-filed-for-flds-members/

  53. TexasTwist: I’ve found two daughters of Frank Johnson who were married to Warren. I’m not sure if either were previously married to Rulon. They are: Ada Rae Johnson and Ida May Johnson. I hope this helps!

    As an side note, just to give an idea of how twisted it all is:

    Frank Johnson was kicked out by Warren and his were wives reassigned. One wife, Lydia Ann (Barlow) Johnson, was reassigned to (Frederick) Merril Jessop. Merril and Barbara then proceeded to witness the marriage of Lydia’s 14-year-old daughter to a 33-year-old man, Abram Harker Jeffs. She gave birth at age 16. Abram Jeffs’ trial is scheduled for June 7.

  54. Sorry, that last paragraph should start “Frank Johnson was kicked out by Warren and his wives were reassigned…”

  55. Thanks Twist.

  56. Finished reading Carolyn’s book ‘ Triumph’.
    If people do not understand why the women, children or men keep silent and not leaving the FLDS they should read this book.
    It is a prison of the mind. ( Not her words, mine )
    A book well worth reading and buying.

  57. ellie, thanks for that link.

    TexasTwist, thanks for your research.

  58. Surely have missed ya around here, Miz Twist.

  59. My bad, ellie.

    The father of this particular wife of Rulon/Warren is Frank Russell Jessop, not Frank Russell Johnson as I misstated above. The man you are referring to is Frank Tilton Johnson (kicked out by Warren) and not only is one of his daughters the victim in Abram Jeffs’ case, but another daughter was the underage bride for which Michael Emack pled quilty to sexual assault.

    I know the name of this particular wife of Warren’s who he said conceived her child (her first and only to my knowledge) in a “heavenly session.”

    She is a particularly beautiful young woman and she was put in front of some of the cameras in the effective “we need our children crying mamas” PR offensive.

    I don’t know who the other wife would be who was mentioned in the April 2009 article as having conceived in one of Warren’s “sessions.” Wish I did, but that is something I will keep my eyes out for.

    My apologies for the earlier error of the wrong last name. Jessop, not Johnson. I’m going to blame the FLDS name games for my lapse rather than the slip of my own mind that it was.

  60. Always good to see you, GrannyToad. I have to take breaks away from all of this stuff from time to time and sometimes I don’t have the time I require of myself to fully delve into particular areas.

    I think there will be a lot more of the story unfolded when Warren faces his music in Texas. He’s one strange dude.

    I was wrong about Abram. Possibly anything he was offered for a plea wasn’t much of a bargain?

    Whatever the reason, good enough for me because trials have a way of injecting a lot of information into the public sphere. Can’t wait to learn more about the particulars of Abram’s bad boy acts.

    The first bad act of Leroy’s listed in the Success article was Abram “acting as a bodyguard and driver” for Warren when he was a fugitive.

    At least they are making note of that type of criminal behavior that was rampant and is well documented — all of the aid and assistance provided to Warren as he attempted to evade justice.

    It remains to be seen as to whether anyone will ever be charged for such offenses by the relevant US Attorneys’ offices.

  61. Twist,
    I have a Kathryn Jessop – daughter of Frank Jessop and Maryanne Fischer

    Also her sister Velvet – same parents

    Another sister, Kate was married to Warren (not sure who her mother is and if she is the same woman as Katheryn)

    And Janetta – the one Warren kicked out for not keeping sweet was their sister (again, not sure who her mother is)

    Their sister, Suzanne, was married to Jason Williams who wrote “Zero Chance” – a really great book!

  62. Tarsa LeBaron apprehended

    Fugitive suspected in slayings nabbed in Honduras
    Member of polygamous sect had been on the run since 1992

    By MOISES MENDOZA
    HOUSTON CHRONICLE
    May 13, 2010, 11:14PM

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/metro/7004537.html

  63. Jacqi LeBaron just arrested in Honduras and extradited to Houston!

    Texas now has two Utah plyg factions at play on their turf.

    Maybe Missouri should advertise for some of that action, everybody has pretty much forgotten the history there.

    http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15085547

  64. Frank and Mary Anne had:
    Marie
    Velvet
    Suzanne
    Kathryn
    MaryAnne
    Janetta
    Amy

    Velvet, Kathryn and MaryAnne were all married to Rulon. Velvet, Kathryn and Janetta were/are married to Warren. MaryAnne is married to Isaac. Marie was married to Nathan Jack Cooke and then Alma Richard Barlow. Suzanne was married to Jason Williams and then to Lester Myron Johnson. I don’t have Amy married to anyone.

    I don’t have any children listed for Kathryn, so the “stepmother” that Warren got pregnant during a heavenly session has to be Velvet.

    I think the other is Ora Steed who was also Rulon’s wife first, but I can’t find the reference to that right now.

  65. FBI wanted poster for Tarsa LeBaron:

    http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/fugitives/cei/lebaron_jt.htm

  66. Meanwhile, the same old same old in Mohave county: http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2010/05/14/news/local/doc4becf0a177515845479696.txt

  67. TexasTwist: Yes, I’ve been confused by FLDS naming conventions before, too! I think the group could use some new names – in addition to new blood and new perspectives.

    Frank Johnson (the one I was talking about) just stood out in my mind because, along with fellow ex-FLDSer Arthur Barlow, he went to Texas to seek custody of his children following the YFZ raid. I don’t recall any follow up but I doubt he was successful.

  68. Ben Winslow covers the Tarsa LeBaron story
    http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-jacqueline-lebaron-arrested,0,3508281.story

  69. Anon @ 5:57 PM:

    I’m glad you enjoyed the link. It’s old but I think it provides a good base understanding of just how much Warren Jeffs controled at YFZ ranch (i.e. everything!) up to and including :
    – what the women would wear from the cradle to the grave (long pastel dresses without “a ‘V’ on the neck or the waist”)
    – no sports for children (“There is [sic] no gentile games here”)
    – and of course this classic from 2003:
    “The Lord had me take these two underage girls on purpose, to show that I and we, this people, are with him, with God, not fearing man.”

  70. The Texas filing of the “prior bad acts” committed by Abram Jeffs can be found here:
    http://www.thehopeorg.org/Abram_Harker_Jeffs_prior_bad_acts_5-5-10.pdf

  71. Anon Hans Solo :

    “Maybe Missouri should advertise for some of that action, everybody has pretty much forgotten the history there.”

    Forgive my ignorance, what did you mean by this reference to Missouri ?

  72. Anon at 10:01,

    In regards to the Carla Faye…, I mean Jaqueline LeBaron story, it looks like Texas is probably going to send a polygamist to death row.

  73. I’m curious also, I know the LDS version doesn’t match history.

  74. seems like Roman Polanski is in trouble again ….

    http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37155368

  75. yee haw the SL trib doesn’t like my comments on the lebarons.

  76. GrannyToad, what did you say?

  77. I’ve forgetten it all by now, there were maybe half a dozen. I think their theme is not allowing any reference to LDS but that doesn’t apply to all posters, so I’m uncertain.

  78. From over at gosanangelo, the point was made about how could the mother claim the “developmentally delayed” victim did well at school, and on standardized tests, since they’re homeschooled?

    That’s FLDSBS!

  79. Sally Jeffs wouldn’t know developmentally delayed if it jumped up and bit her on the butt. The girl was in class with those younger than she was, and if she waited on her brother, whether from her own mother or from another mother, those boys were a good 2 years younger than she was, therefore she was delayed.

  80. Sally Jeffs appears to be a very sad and worn down lady who has been trying to follow the only way she has known.

  81. I agree, but that still doesn’t excuse her from allowing her children to be abused. Three of her daughters married underage and had children.

  82. A way, the only way, they have been taught to live out their religion. A way, the only way, they have been taught to gain eternal life and experience relief from the hurts of this world. All this PROVING their loyalty by obeying Simon no matter what Simon sez is so unfortunate, so shallow to many of us. It is beyond our comprehension, but hopefully not our compassion.

  83. WASHINGTON (AP) – The Supreme Court says federal officials can indefinitely hold inmates considered “sexually dangerous” after their prison terms are complete.

    The high court on Monday reversed a lower court decision that said Congress overstepped its authority in allowing indefinite detentions of considered “sexually dangerous.”

    The challenge was brought by four men who served prison terms ranging from three to eight years for possession of child pornography or sexual abuse of a minor.

    Their confinement was supposed to end more than two years ago, but prison officials said there would be a risk of sexually violent conduct or child molestation if they were released.

  84. This is Good News!

  85. Yes, very good news. How many children, and women, have been raped and sometimes murdered by released or paroled sex offenders? Most states are way too soft on these creeps.

    Question! Does anyone know the boy-girl ratio of the children rescued from the YFZ breeding compound?

    I’m curious because I’ve read stories which indicated girls were sent from their families in Utah/Arizona to live with families at YFZ until their ‘marriages.’

  86. Just noticed on TrueTV (formerly Court TV) they are asking the question for discussion on cult vs. church while featuring a trial against parents for allowing their son to die due to beliefs on divine healing. Interesting. A lot of discussion about the rights of religious beliefs.

  87. The supreme court already ruled on that child’s death and found the parents at fault.

  88. You apparently have the right to neglect your own health care for religious reasons, but not someone else’s.

  89. I think the standard that applies remains that you can freely believe whatever you damwell want to, you have that right, but you will never have any right to actions that break the law/s.

  90. Well, Granny, I think they were making more of a point that you can believe what you want, even to the point of risking your own life, but you don’t have the right to make that life threatening choice for someone else, even, maybe especially, your own child.

  91. That too. It’s an action taken, passive or active: actions have consequences.

  92. And so it should be. Christians and everyone else have to obey the law. No exceptions. Period.

  93. Christians are specifically commanded to obey all the laws of the land in which they live.
    See See Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans 13 : 1 – 5.

  94. In Buster Johnson’s words: http://www.kntram.com/files/5-18-10%20HOUR%202%20PART%201.mp3

  95. “Christians are specifically commanded to obey all the laws of the land in which they live.
    See See Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans 13 : 1 – 5”

    Apparently Warren Jeffs and his followers have failed to read this bit of scripture:

    ROMANS
    CHAPTER 13
    Paul counsels: Be subject unto God’s ministers; keep the commandments; love one another; righteousness leads to salvation.
    1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
    2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
    3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
    4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
    5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

    Also vrs, 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

    IMO Warren Jeffs and his follower’s have broken every commandment listed above especially the one about bearing false witness “lying for the lord” Vrs 3 also applies.

    Note above Bible verses KJV.

    And since the FLDS claim to be “Mormon” It would appear that they disrespect their own teachings as well.

    From Article of Faith

    12 We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

    Above from LDS church website, Articles of Faith, IMO it would appear that Jeffs and his followers have broken most of these as well.

    http://scriptures.lds.org/en/a_of_f/1

    Note LDS haa no connect to FLDS, just used their website to show that FLDS don’t following Mormon teachings.

  96. A Texan,

    If I know my neighbor has given his 14 year old child to his friend for sex and I do nothing to stop him, or to help her, am I being a Christian?

  97. There was a UEP court hearing today in St. George, Utah. Bruce Wisan has been trying (for MANY years) to get a surveyed plat of the UEP property to assist him in assessing individual property taxes, etc. Poor Mr. Wisan has been thwarted by the FLDS from the get-go.

    Today, it was agreed that the fiduciary will submit the surveyed plat by June 30th. Then the Twin City Water Authority will have until the end of July to respond. Washington County will also have until the end of July to respond.

    Washington County just wants to review the survey plats because it has been a couple/few years since they first looked over them and they can’t remember how the surveys panned out.

    The City of Hildale’s attorney did not bother to show up. It must have been a “Warren says answer them nothing moment”.

    TCWA, Washington County and the City of Hildale are the defendants in this case.

    I wonder how Twin City Water Authority is different from Twin City Water Works. Beats me.

    I did want to ask TCWA’s lawyer, Peter Stirba, how everyone was enjoying their $11,000 worth of sewing machines. Since $11,000 worth of sewing machines (bought by taxpayer dollars) is something every water company needs, I thought he would appreciate my interest. But he left after the hearing and I didn’t have a chance to speak with him.

    Mr. Stirba did tell Judge Shumate how wonderfully cooperative TCWA has recently been with Mr. Wisan et al. TCWA has been providing requested documentation to Mr. Wisan and his attorneys.

    Jeff Shields, Bruce Wisan’s brilliant attorney, then got to tell Judge Shumate that the fulfillment of the document requests has “been like pulling teeth” it has barely been cooperation on their part. I hope Judge Shumate got the picture.

    Anyway, there is a request sitting on SLC Judge Lindberg’s desk to remove the Stay Order and they all hope this will happen at any time.

    Regardless, the survey plats will be filed soon and we can all sit back and watch the s**t start hitting the fan in the Creek – AGAIN.

    Maybe the TCWA will have a garage sale and sell some of those sewing machines so Mr. Stirba will get paid for his work. Only time will tell.

  98. Boots,
    In response to your question, no, it would not be consistent with the Christian faith to ignore injustice which you had identified.

  99. A Texan,

    If I know my neighbor has given his 14 year old child to his friend for sex and I do nothing to stop him, or to help her, am I being a Christian?

    Boots said this on May 18, 2010 at 9:17 PM

    IMO not, it is your duty IMO before God as a believer to report this to LE, it dosen’t matter if you are LDS, Catholic, Protestant or Eastern Orthodox. And if LE dosen’t act them go the the media-speak out!

  100. For anyone in the Salt Lake City area, there will be a screening of the “Sons of Perdition” documentary. See the info below:

    Hello everyone –

    Our film Sons of Perdition is finished and played incredibly well at the Tribeca Festival. Before it continues on its festival run we want to show it to the people who were so very supportive of us over the past four years. Thus, we are holding a Salt Lake screening.

    The film will screen twice, at 7:00 and 9:00 at the Broadway Theatres in Salt Lake (111 E. 300 S.) on Thursday, May 27th. Admission is free, however, there is a suggested donation of $10 at the door. Proceeds help FLDS exiles.

    Please show up early for the screening.

    Feel free to pass this email to friends and family.

    We would love to see you there.

    Thanks.


    TYLER MEASOM | Producer/Director | LEFT TURN FILMS
    205 E. Vidas Salt Lake City, Ut. 84115 | 801.836.1578

  101. A Texan,

    Yes, thank you. Then both the lDS Church and the mainstream Christian churches in Arizona and Utah, as I see it, are guilty as charged.

    That’s exactly what I did when I found out.
    That’s exactly what Buster Johnson and Flora Jessop have been doing for almost 15 years now.

    Maybe the reason nobody in Arizona wants to help the children is because the price is just too damn high when you go up against these organized crime organizations masquerading as religions.

    I knew the answer to the question because it has been my pleasure to know real Christians but the whole time I was up there I kept wondering where the Hell they were.

    I saw very little evidence there are any up there. I’m sure there must be but they certainly weren’t doing anything about this if there were…

    That hasn’t been my experience since returning home. Happily.

  102. Anon

    Thanks for the court report! Looks like it is coming to a head.

    BTW, did Merril show up? I heard he came out there for the court hearing, but he might not have made it on time.

  103. If you are a defendant, how can you just not show up? Wouldn’t that put city of Hildale in contempt?

  104. HHG

    Thats their MO

  105. I’m still thinking that a bench warrant for Merril seems appropriate.

  106. Stamp, I didn’t see Merril. Shouldn’t he be saving his money for the showdown tomorrow in court?

  107. Texas polygamist deaths suspect to be in court

    05/19/2010

    By JUAN A. LOZANO / Associated Press

    A polygamist sect leader’s daughter, who was a fugitive for nearly 20 years after being charged in a quadruple slaying, is to appear in court to learn if she’ll stay in jail pending trial.

    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D9FPPLCO0.html

    18 years on the run and she thinks she might not have to stay in jail awaiting her trial? HA HA

    Tarsa, you’re in Texas, not Utah.

  108. And your little dog too, Jackie.

    Really, turn loose a mass murderer who’s been on the run 18 years, uh huh, yeah. Not damnlikely.

  109. Huesos: Amen to what you said. That lousy deadbeat dad should be in jail and should stay there until he forks over the child support.

  110. I thought that some of you might enjoy this :
    A Saudi woman is fighting for the right to drive :
    http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/4181.htm

  111. One of the polygamist kidnappers of Elizabeth Smart to be sentenced Friday and could get 5 years to life, this is part of plea bargin.

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/05/19/utah.elizabeth.smart.kidnapper/

  112. Re: the hearing in St. George. My understanding is that the City of Hildale abstained from litigation regarding the subdivision. This must have been under “answer them nothing scenario”. Then, when the FLDS decided they wanted to oppose subdivision platting, Hildale was legally “out of the picture”, so I guess Twin City Water Authority was the only entity they could come up with. Maybe the lawyers knew the situation with Twin City Water Works (that is the entity with the massive misappropriations), so they chose Twin City Water Authority to do the legal objections. I haven’t spoken to anybody that really understands all of the water department ins and outs,however. There is also a Twin City Water Department that is a part of the cities of Hildale and CC that oversees the water issues and it has ties to both Twin City Water Authority and Twin City Water Works. Somebody that attended the hearing said that it appeared that Judge Shumate wanted to get rid of the case and unless the TCWA can come up with a really good reason not to, the judge seems like he will grant the motion to subdivide Hildale. There is probably a sacred temple site right in the middle of Hildale that would prohibit subdivision as well as sacred cows that can only produce milk on unsubdivided property.

  113. OK, there’s Tarsa the murderess who helped kill ex-members, was on the lam for 18 years and an FBI Most Wanted fugitive; Wanda and Brian who kidnapped a 14-year-old little girl at knifepoint and tried to kidnap her 15-year-old cousin to become wife number 3; Warren who has split up dozens of families out of spite, forced little girls to marry their cousins against their will, kicked out hundreds of helpless young boys, and was on the FBI Top Ten Most Wanted List; Merril the deadbeat dad who doesn’t give a tinker’s damn about feeding and clothing 7 of the children he had with Carolyn (wife number 4) even though she has a court order for child support, etc. etc. etc.

    WOW, what a loving religion Mormon polygamy is. And what outstanding character it builds in people.

  114. utesfan, thanks for the update. Do you have any idea what is going on with the Mohave County (Colorado City) side of the survey issue?

  115. 7:54
    I haven’t heard of anything going on with respect to surveying in CC. I have heard that the Az AG’s Office is investigating a slew of issues in CC though. I have also heard that a well known lawyer is going to take CC on in a civil rights case. Maybe CC won’t object or be able to object to subdivision if they are fighting/paying for all of their civil rights violations and fighting Arizona as the AG’s Office or the legislature attempt to do the same thing they did with the school district.

  116. utesfan, I am aware that there is a fabulous attorney (and person) who is bringing a class action lawsuit against Colorado City for civil rights violations. I hope many victims will join this lawsuit. It appears to be a critical step to righting many of the wrongs occurring in the Creek.

    And thank goodness for the AZ AG. He is a man of great integrity who stands by the citizens of Arizona; the man does do his job to protect his constituents.

    I sure hope he will find out why public taxpayer dollars are being spent on personal home improvements, cell phones for “the mothers”, exotic chocolates, “transportation”, and $11,000 for sewing machines. Plus many other unusual expenditures for a small town public water company and fire department.

    We are also fortunate that Bruce Wisan was assigned to be the Court Appointed Special Fiduciary to protect the beneficiaries of the UEP. He has unbelievable stamina!

    Hopefully, this group of men will clean up much of the fraud in the Twin Cities and make it good place to live in again.

  117. I have a simple question, many of us in the San Angelo area want to organzize a boycott against companies who do business with FLDS members. This includes publishing a list of home builders and contractors who employ FLDS workers which Lowes is notorious for, urging people not to hire or do business with them. We want to know if this would run afoul of Federal and state laws that forbid discrimination on account of religious belief. Since the FLDS are independent contractors as opposed to employees, do workplace anti-discrimination laws still apply?

  118. What’s become of TBM is he on vacation in Tahiti or sucked dry by university courses or something?

  119. OK, there’s Tarsa the murderess who helped kill ex-members, was on the lam for 18 years and an FBI Most Wanted fugitive; Wanda and Brian who kidnapped a 14-year-old little girl at knifepoint and tried to kidnap her 15-year-old cousin to become wife number 3; Warren who has split up dozens of families out of spite, forced little girls to marry their cousins against their will, kicked out hundreds of helpless young boys, and was on the FBI Top Ten Most Wanted List; Merril the deadbeat dad who doesn’t give a tinker’s damn about feeding and clothing 7 of the children he had with Carolyn (wife number 4) even though she has a court order for child support, etc. etc. etc.
    WOW, what a loving religion Mormon polygamy is. And what outstanding character it builds in people.

    ……………………….

    And let’s not forget Ron and Dan Lafferty, who butchered their brother’s wife and her baby girl because she opposed polygamy.

    My theory: Joseph Smith screwed up big time and this is his legacy. He didn’t do the math. There will never be enough females, except for the big shot white guys at the top of the heap, and this breeds an unbalanced, unnatural and dysfunctional society.

  120. Utesfan – when might we expect to publically hear about the civil rights suit being filed?
    Thanks

  121. 6:58
    I am hearing everything second hand, but I understand people are meeting with the Arizona AG Office for a civil action and the same people are also meeting with a private attorney. This is supposed to happen in the near future. I don’t know if there are going to be two civil suits or just one or if the AG Office and the private attorney will work together or separately.

  122. Mouse,
    With regard to the doctrine of blood atonement, didn’t Brigham Young put that forward, rather than Joseph Smith ?

  123. Huesos,
    You know TBM – sometimes he blogs, then he takes a break…. if you have a concern just write something on his blog … that should wake him up…

  124. CW

    Done. And utesfan, I heard there were other things afoot. Like Merril wanted to attend the hearing but couldnt make it for some reason? He has more hearings in Texas. How does he expect to be at two places at once?

    He must have alot of frequent flyer miles!

  125. Yeah, but it too broke to pay child support. lousy deadbeat dad.

  126. Does anyone know if Merril bothered to show up for today’s child custody court hearing?

  127. Didn’t he play that he’s in the hospital at St George UT, like he’s a starlet?

  128. According to the hospital, he is NOT there!

  129. Natalie Malonis needs to demand Merril’s deposition while he is “hospitalized” just like Picaretta demanded Issac Wyler’s.

    Merril is a lying sack of s**t and I don’t believe for one minute he was honestly in the St. George hospital for an illness. What did he get … a hangnail?

    He is playing Carolyn and the Court for fools. Judge Walther needs to throw his butt in jail for contempt.

    Whew, I feel better now. Thanks for letting me vent.

  130. keep venting anonymous!!!

    i don’t believe he was in the hospital either. i think randy wilson got played also.

  131. Merril’s continuing failure to pay child support or appear at court hearings just reveals what an embittered, small man he really is.

  132. Sorryast durdy bathtub!

    Is the ink on the bench warrant drying out?

  133. Anonymous, how could the hospital say he isn’t there? Isn’t that a violation of patient privacy? I would think they’d simply refuse to answer the question without some sort of subpoena or something.

    (Not that I’m defending him. Just wondering at the claim.)

  134. Rebeckah,
    You simply call the hospital operator and ask to be connected with his hospital room.
    The hospital operators will tell you whether or not he has a room in the hospital, and what ward the patient is on….

  135. Ironically, Lindsay Lohan is in similar situation – stuck in France without a passport, oh darn, no reservation on the plane to come back for her court date either.

    Then she was photo’ed partying on a yacht last night.

    OOOPS

    Bench Warrant, ISSUED.

  136. BOLO for Lindsay Lohan and Merril Jessop!

  137. French Police: LiLo Didn’t Report Stolen Passport
    Originally posted May 20th 2010 9:30 AM PDT by TMZ Staff
    Cops in Cannes, France tell TMZ Lindsay Lohan did NOT report her “stolen” passport to them … contradicting what LiLo’s lawyer said today during the hearing.

    Read more: http://www.tmz.com/#ixzz0oWWWbTWb

  138. several called the hospital and got the response that there was no merril jessop, frederick jessop or frederick merril jessop who was a patient in the hospital.

  139. He’s hanging out with Lilo in France?

  140. Proud,
    Sometimes hospitals check patients in under false names if the patient is famous or there is a problem with confidentiality. Usually the patient requests this ….

  141. Dang Merril you oughta tell your lawyer that you didn’t have to actually get a room, hospital room that is, to get your viagra RX for reptile dysfunction.

  142. catwhisperer, we’re talking about St. George, Utah here. Things don’t work that way. This ain’t Hollywood. The hospital operators don’t have that “savoir-faire” and Merril Jessop is neither famous nor is there a problem with confidentiality.

    You had it right the 1st time; ya call the hospital and ask for the patient’s room. At 10 AM this morning, he was NOT in the St. George hospital. No HIPPA violation occurred; just a lying POS was exposed for trying to avoid a court hearing about paying Carolyn Jessop child support – AGAIN.

  143. A followup to my 9:53 PM posting:

    A patient in the hospital can request that phone calls not be put through to the patient’s room. If someone calls, they are told that the patient has requested not to receive phone calls.

    That is a different message than when someone calls, asking to be connected with a patient’s room, and is told that there is no such patient currently in the hospital.

    Merril Jessop was NOT in the St. George hospital at 10 AM today getting treatment for his hangnail, or his tangle, or whatever other “ailment” he might have had.

    If he HAD been in the hospital, don’t you think he would have wanted verification of this (such as a message from the operator stating that Mr. Jessop has requested not to receive phone calls) so that there was PROOF that he missed his court hearing in Texas because he was in the St. George hospital?

    Maybe Judge Walther should just deny Merril the right to leave Texas so he will be around town or in a local hospital, should he get a hangnail before his next court hearing date.

  144. To give Merril the benefit of the doubt, maybe he was not suffering from a hangnail after all.

    Maybe Merril had to go to the St. George hospital because he was visiting friends, family, and/or long abandoned wives in Short Creek and his finger was “bitten” by one of those sewing machines bought from Shingleton’s by the Twin City Water Works for $11,000 in public taxpayer dollars.

    Yeah, that sounds more like it. And I am sure Willie Jessop will set us straight, if this was not the case.

  145. Anonymi 9:53 et al,
    I concur… that is most likely what is going on…Merril is evading child support for as long as he can…. and you have every right to be angry…
    just wanted you to be aware that celebs sometimes are checked into hospitals under false names… not just in Hollywood….happens in Sodom on the Hudson all the time…

  146. Right catwhisperer, but St. George isn’t New York either. And Merril is NO celebrity!

  147. i agree that merril isn’t a celeb and he should have wanted proof that he was there (if he was) so not to piss the judge off further. looks like he missed on that account and i hope judge walther throws the book at him.

  148. Yes, I agree with throwing the book at him…
    not to change the subject…
    why can’t we post comments on TBM’s site ?
    Why is it closed to new comments ?

  149. and where is Ron – in – Houston ? I miss him and TBM, someone send them my regards…

  150. In another polygamy related case, Wanda Barzee to be sentenced to 15 years for her part in Elizabeth Smart kidnapping case.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700034149/Barzee-to-be-sentenced-today.html

    http://www.sltrib.com/D=g/ci_15129236

    http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/05/21/utah.elizabeth.smart.kidnapper/?hpt=T2

    http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-elizabeth-smart-wanda-barzee-sentencing,0,6429951.story

    IMO 15 years is to light of sentence, this should be at least 25 years.

  151. Assistant District Attorney Ashley Rich called Hopkins “evil of the worst kind.”

    She said he taught the eight children in his home things about the Bible that were not true and that helped him get away with his crimes for years.

    During Hopkins’ trial in April, prosecutors said he killed his 36-year-old wife, Arletha Hopkins, in 2004 after she caught him molesting a girl, then stuffed her body in a freezer at their home in north Mobile. Investigators discovered the body in 2008 after a young woman abused by Hopkins told child advocates about it, authorities said. Police arrested Hopkins while he was preaching at a revival in the south Alabama town of Jackson.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/05/21/alabama-evangelist-gets-life-plus-years-dead-wife-freezer-abuse-girl/?test=latestnews

  152. He’s a pretty sick guy. I wonder if Hopkins had a generator to keep that freezer running? You sure wouldn’t want an extended power outage.

  153. Texas may get to host another of Utah’s Mormon polygamous nutcases.

    Kimball strongly recommended Barzee be sent to Carswell Federal Prison in Ft, Worth, Texas.

    Wanda Barzee sentenced to 15 years in federal prison, gets scolding from Elizabeth Smart’s mother

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700034149/Wanda-Barzee-sentenced-to-15-years-in-federal-prison-gets-scolding-from-Elizabeth-Smarts-mother.html

  154. Good article on Blood Atonement:

    Gardner’s date with firing squad revives talk of Mormon blood atonement

    http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15126927

  155. Hmm, so it was God who made him move to Vermont to get polygamy legalized two years ago….
    I guess God must have changed His mind ?

    http://vermontpolygamy.blogspot.com/2009_08_01_archive.html

  156. God didnt fund his adventure very well either – but maybe its just a test.

    I bet if he keeps it up, intelligent people will eventually come around and start agreeing with him on his blogs and start sending him money too.

    But they better do it quick, time’s a wastin’ and there are so many polygamists in Vermont who need this law, its unbelievable!

  157. Ron, if you’re out there, this one’s for you:

    Sen. Orrin Hatch unsatisfied with the BCS response

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700034353/Sen-Orrin-Hatch-unsatisfied-with-the-BCS-response.html

  158. It would be a refreshing change to see Orrin Hatch put as much time and effort into protecting the victims of polygamy living in his state as he does whining about football.

  159. Time to rewrite history again.

    Landmark ‘Mormon Doctrine’ goes out of print

    http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_15137409

  160. OOOPS

    More changes. Reckon they will get it right in 2000 years?

  161. “Rebeckah,
    You simply call the hospital operator and ask to be connected with his hospital room.
    The hospital operators will tell you whether or not he has a room in the hospital, and what ward the patient is on….”

    Oh — come to think of it, I’ve done that when my grandmother was in the hospital. Color me red. 😉

  162. $1,151,881.00

    Nice to know that the FBI is familiar with the YFZ/FLDS books.

    Last week’s Eldorado Success article on Leroy Merril Jessop’s indigency hearing.

  163. Carp. That last one was me.

  164. FBI SA gave testimony at the hearing that cash payments to residents were set up to evade taxes.

    Oops.

    An investigator from the Texas Comptroller’s Office said Texan Supply and Services (TSS) generated $3.9 million in revenue from 1-2009 to 3-2010 but did not pay any unemployment insurance, but “that’s for another day.”

    Oops.

    Interesting stuff in the Success article (May 20 issue) on the May 13 hearings.

  165. Grr I can’t see! Go Texas comptroller, FBI

  166. Here’s an editorial from SLtrib on mothers involved in case of Barzee sentenced in her part in polygamy related kidnapping.

    http://www.sltrib.com/D=g/ci_15137256

  167. Likely they didnt pay the IRS either, if they are anything like the shortcreek bunch.

    I hope that the IRS puts an attorney on their law expenses and garnishes that to pay their liens. If they have so much money for attorneys they should have paid their bills.

    Instead they hacked up a kiddie sex commune and a temple that is worthless.

    Oh well its just millions of dollars down the drain, more where that came from evidently!

    At some point the other vendors who are outbid by these outlaws are going to complain to the right person.

  168. Anyone interested in the financial aspects of YFZ and the FLDS in Texas really needs to get access to the information at the Success website or get some of the court filings from the May 13 hearings.

    Good stuff and lots of details.

  169. i agree twist, it’s really good stuff.

  170. OK, where or how do we get it?

  171. As I’d said a week or so back, I had just found this site. So, last night I was reading old post, trying to catch up.” OPEN DISCUSSION # 23, WTF Cougar Ranch”. Funny,Funny,Funny!! I love your quick wits!!
    They do say laughter is the best medicine for whatever ails you.
    I like the saying,”Laughter is internal jogging and you don’t even have to get dressed for it”.

  172. Moose, my daughter, welcome to the Fold, from High Priestesshood Holder Cat

  173. Cat, is is doctrine that men are to be kept barechested in the kitchen? (And in the fields and around the pool…?) 😀

  174. I have never seen a moose, only photos and films. Therefore since I’ve never seen any moose, moose may not exist.

  175. Rebeckah hon thoughts like that give me the vapors.

  176. Rebeckah,
    I believe that someone advocated for beekeeper uniforms for the men if they ventured off the WTF Ranch compound…and I believe that person was me.
    There was significant support however for pool cabana boys in various states of undress, but it should be noted that I did not support that practice.

  177. Well, of COURSE they must be covered head to toe OFF of the ranch! Can’t have our pure, unsullied men exposed to the sinful eyes of outside women. I’m just advocating a dress code for ON the ranch. 😀

  178. So I wonder how much land the FLDS bought in Hartsel, Colorado?

    There is a document on the Eldorado Success Newspaper web site attached to the article from last Thursday about Leroy Jessop’s proclaimed indigency and his appealing his conviction.

    On page 32 of this document in the Bishop’s Record dated May 5, 2007, it lists $156,000 paid out for the “Hartsel, Colorado land purchase”.

    Does anybody know anything about this FLDS property?

    IMHO, that entire court document on the Success web site reeks of RICO crimes. I sure hope someone is following the money!

  179. For more info on Hartsel go here –
    http://hartselcolo.com/

  180. Unincorporated stood out.

  181. The Hartsel information contained in that document was the first mention I”ve seen of that location for the FLDS in Colorado.

  182. For more info on Hartsel go here –
    http://hartselcolo.com/

    LOL They reference the South Park cartoon show. NOT compatible with the FLDS

  183. When pockets are nearly bottomless they’re so deep what is there to spend the $$ on?

  184. Just a question – Is a move planned to Hartsel ? If so, why ? – does anyone have any idea ?

  185. Another hidey hole, is one guess. Another place to maybe hide criminals wanted by the law. Another place to juggle funds and resources. The list goes on.

  186. “hidey hole” – just love that expression. It brings back my childhood when my little sister and I would search for these magical, hidden places that we could sneak away to and read or eat our rare candy stashes. A place to read privately or cry over some hurt. Later on I shared this concept with my children and even grandchildren. Its one of the simple delights of the past that can be refreshing and simple for today.

  187. Pardon the breakaway from this serious subject but thanks, GrannyToad for sharing that term this afternoon.

  188. I can’t imagine that $156K buys a whole lot of acreage even in a remote place like Hartsel.

  189. I dunno, land out in the awl patch in west Texas sure sells cheap, and I’m not getting bites on my place I moved from last fall.

  190. I guess everything is relative. I did some quick research on the internet and it looks like between $10K and $15K per acre in Hartsel, depending on whether or not there is any development on the property, mountain views, how many acres you are buying in one lot, etc. So we can probably assume 20 or less.

    Betty

  191. What I find interesting about the purchase of the Hartsel, Colorado property is that the $156,000 payment was made 8-9 months after Warren was arrested and in jail in Utah.

    So, it seems obvious that the property was not purchased as one of Warren’s places to hide while he was on the lam. So, why was it purchased?

  192. “Houses of hiding” weren’t/aren’t used solely for a place for Warren to hide. They are also places where some of the folks (mostly women) who are exiled as “unworthy” from the “places of refuge — YFZ, Pringle and Mancos” are sent to live.

  193. Possible, too, that the payment on the Hartsel property could have been a balloon payment due on property purchased prior to Warren’s arrest.

    While he was still on the run, Warren directed that most of the then existing “houses of hiding” in Colorado be relocated after Wendell Musser was arrested because he knew of their locations. Warren figured Musser would probably turn against him once he learned that his wife and child were taken from him.

    Hartsel could have been one of those “relocations.”

    Hard to say and in none of the articles/documents I’ve read on FLDS presence during any timeframe in Colorado do I recall mention of that location.

  194. I wonder if Warren jeffs gets any fanmail in jail from ladies wanting to marry him,I wuld imagine so.

  195. Gold diggers?

  196. No Granny, nutcases who like “celebrity crooks”. There actually are women who are attracted to criminals. (Some of them seem to be in the FLDS.) 😉

  197. Yeah its a phenomenon, but I dont think that Warren is getting any offers.

    I think Warrens attempts at suicide, his nose feeding episodes, and the fact he already has 80 plus wives is a turn off to all but the craziest.

    And the creek sheeples know better than to assume they could make any move not initiated by his royal pain in the ass.

  198. Oh that reminds me..

    Does the Texas Prison system have a GED program for homeschoolers who never made the grade?

    Maybe Warren should sign up early so he has a seat in class when he arrives in the Texas Penal System.

  199. Carolyn told me about houses in hiding. Women and children are often sent to one, There can be several mothers and their children and everyone except the caretaker has to stay indoors. Noone else is allowed to be seen. She said that it is hell on earth for the children because they have to be hidden so no one knows they are there.

  200. IF memory serves, there were several women listed in ‘houses of hiding’ on the Bishop’s list from YFZ…sorta out of sight, out of mind. Wonder what happened to them???
    [I ran to the book store the day Triumph came out and got a copy. I was leaving on a trip in 2 hrs and I WASN’T gonna wait 3 weeks to get it! Good book, I left it in the ship’s library for others to read.]

  201. I wonder how many women in houses of hiding have daughters who became underaged mothers.

  202. I wonder if any of the women/children dont ‘exist’ without birth record, passport, social security etc

  203. Sometimes I could just cry for them. Sometimes, … I do. I’m such a big sissy.

  204. everyone had birth records etc or you wouldnt exist

  205. GrannyToad, you’re not a big sissy for crying for them. I often cry for them too. We cry because we feel their hurt and because we care about them. There is nothing to apologize for caring.

  206. “everyone had birth records etc or you wouldnt exist”

    You realize that statement doesn’t make a lick of sense, right?

    If you’re born and survived you exist. Even if you don’t have a piece of paper stating you were born and survived, you still exist. That poor girl whose father locked her up for 18 years and impregnated her over and over again had something like 6 children — they didn’t have birth records but they still existed. (Except for the baby that died at birth.) Somehow I doubt Dugger’s daughters had birth records either.

  207. Wednesday’s Oprah was very interesting. If ya missed it…several child brides of Tony Alamo told their [horror] stories. He married one when she was just 8! You can probably still see if from her web site, if’n ya want.

  208. Thanks, MC, I didn’t even know that was an option. I’ll go take a look now. 🙂

  209. We all have seen the photos of the FLDS temple with it’s bed, don’t think any gardener was sleeping there IMO.

    In contrast, the LDS Church in Salt Lake City, UT has created a scale model of their temple in SLC showing the rooms and furnishings, no beds at all!

    Here are some links, an opportunity to see what’s inside an operating LDS temple:

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700035839/Mormon-church-shows-inside-view-of-Salt-Lake-Temple-through-new-exhibit.html?pg=1

    http://www.deseretnews.com/video/1855/Mormon-church-shows-inside-view-of-Salt-Lake-Temple-through-new-exhibit.html

    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10952281

    http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/news-releases-stories/scaled-model-provides-salt-lake-temple-open-house-experience

    Now IMO what the LDS church needs to do is create a online version fo those on the internet.

  210. http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Living-with-Tony-Alamo-Video

    There are two clips and short commercials

    Tony is now home where he belongs!

  211. It seems that the second wife of polygamist African president Jacob Zuma has left him.

    http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=79&art_id=iol1275195602284Z521&newslett=1&em=174973a6a20100530ah&page_number=1

  212. If you follow Twitter, you may be interested in some of C Willard Smoot’s tweets :
    http://twitter.com/cwillardsmoot

  213. If you follow Twitter, you may be interested in some of C Willard Smoot’s tweets :
    http://twitter.com/cwillardsmoot
    catwhisperer said this

    IMO to end the problem of polygamy, we need the LDS folks to help end the problem. Ant-LDS forums do little to get the LDS on board, until polticos in Utah feel pressure form the citizens, there will be no actions from Orrin Hatch, Shurtelef, etc. That means getting LDS on board, attacking their faith just gets them to look the other way.

    Ant-polygamy elements in LDS church get turned off by blame the LDS for polygamy, example, watch film Banking on Heaven, in film Ed Smart a LDS Mormon speaks out stating to effect we are Mormons trying to help. Ant-polygamy groups by not seeking help of people like Ed Smart missed a big opportunity IMO. For those unfamiliar with Ed Smart, it was his daughter who was kidnapped by a polygamous kook. Smart because of his political connections, personal friendship with people like John Walsh of AMW, could have done much to put pressure on Utah to finally enforce it’s own laws.

    IMO Banking on Heaven dose a good job of exposing polygamy, but will turn the LDS off who IMO are key to ending polygamy in Utah.

    “Banking on Heaven” not available online to my knowledge, you have check out website for info: http://bankingonheaven.com/

  214. If the LDS actually wanted to do something about polygamy, they would have done it long ago, but they haven’t.

    We should stop making excuses for them, Texan.

  215. Keeping Sweet I agree with you. The LDS church has been asked by many people and they refuse to really help. And they were asked NICELY.

    I think it is a matter of being concerned about culpability for how things have turned out. They have a strong PR Department and don’t want to taint their image in any way, even if it is their own heritage.

  216. A lot of the reason they (mainstream LDS) are not more active is that they are aware that many of their great (and great – great) grandparents were polygamists, hence their uneasy identification with polygamists.
    Additionally the LDS Scriptures, specifically the Doctrines and Covenants 132, warn of the destruction of those who oppose polygamy.

    The Mainstream LDS Church still teaches that polygamy may be practiced in the afterlife.
    Could it be they are reticent to speak out against polygamy due to fear of punishment in the afterlife ?

  217. As an active LDS who lives in the midwest and who joined the church as an adult, I cannot speak for the Utah LDS with polygymous roots, I abhor polygamy and hope for continued investigation and prosecution of polygamy practicing mormon fundie groups. Pressure should be put on Utah and Arizona politicians by all of their constituents, LDS and non LDS. I have sent messages to Shurtleff regarding prosecution of Utah polygamists. I also contacted my State’s US senators when Harry Reid(who is LDS) was working on getting a federal task force set up. Rather than wait for the LDS church to get involved, anti polygamist groups shoud try to get LDS members on board. I also concur that some of the anti polygamy material and people could be construed as LDS bashing which may turn off LDS people who would consider getting involved.

  218. Chemist,
    I am glad to hear of your activism.
    I only wish most LDS followed your example, or if the mainstream LDS Church took a stronger stand on the issue.
    It should be noted that the Smoot twitters do not “bash” or denigrate LDS people.
    The Smoot twitters raise awareness regarding Mormon Scriptures, like D&C 132.
    I have yet to see his tweets misrepresent LDS Scriptural teaching in any way.

  219. Chemist, well said, excellent post. What folks like keeping sweet should know, is that sites like the smoot twiiters could be attack on LDS because of D & C section 132 is like sections of Bible that seem to alllow for slavery etc, last time I looked my KJV as well as NIV still had the passages about slavery. Do we need to demand those passage in Bible be changed as many seem to be demanding of LDS? IMO the LDS need to keep section 132 because it shows the history of why church allowed polygamy.

    Here’s D & C 132 for those who want to read it:

    http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/132

    On thing I like about FLDS Texas blog is the use of original source documents, which why I posted this item read if for your self and make up own minds.

  220. Many of those asking for 132 to be removed don’t know that has already happened once. Around 1930, the LDS removed Section 132 and changed or removed other revelations, and called it “Latter Day Revelations”. I don’t know why they immediately went back, but I suspect this gave the fundies a lot of momentum when that happened, which may have been part of the reason for going back, but they didn’t immediately go back with the Spanish equivalent. For a few years in the 1930’s, after they discontinued “Latter Day Revelations”, the Spanish converts were getting the equivalent in Spanish, while English converts got the regular Doctine and Covenants.

  221. ” 64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.
    65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take aHagar to wife.”

    Of course the big difference between this and the bible verses about slavery is that this is commanding women to accept polygamy or be destroyed whereas the bible verses don’t tell anyone they have to be a slave or be destroyed.

    And the further difference between the two is that the Bible has the New Testament, which supposedly creates a new covenant (except for homosexuals, apparently — but shellfish and pork eaters caught a break!) but the Mormons really DON’T have a repeal of this commandment. Frankly I think it’s the best example of mysogyny that I’ve seen in many a day and I really wonder why any woman would be a part of such a religion, but then I wonder that about Catholic women too.

  222. Basically, it translates to: “I had a vision from God saying that only I can decide who has the right to have sex with each other. Anyone who does not agree with me is damned and shall be destroyed. Women can have only one sex partner. Adulterers can be killed. And once, again, in case you missed it, only >I< can define adultery, cause God said so. "

    Who could doubt but that this is the word of God? Well, just about anyone with common sense about human nature.

    Why, oh why, did this not get him run out of his own town on a rail the very first time it was read?

  223. A member of my immediate family is a convert to the LDS faith. When I questioned her about polygamy, she replied that the Book of Mormon condemns polygamy.

    She was surprised to learn about Doctrine and Covenants Section 132. She had never read it. Many people of the LDS faith are unaware of D&C 132 – they don’t even read all their Scriptural texts because they spend more time reading the New Testament (I think that’s a good thing!)

    That is the point of the Smoot tweets, if you read them. He draws attention to the D&C and the teachings on polygamy. His statements are factual, informative, and neither exaggerated or insulting.

    While the Old Testament did permit slavery and regulated it, the New Testament teaching is clear – all people, men and women, Jews and Gentiles, slave and free, are equal in Christ: See the Epistle of St. Paul to the Galatians Chapter 3 :

    28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

    This statement from the New Testament has been a rallying cry for FREEDOM of the oppressed throughout the ages.

    While the New Testament does not advocate violence to achieve freedom from oppression or slavery, it does clearly state that all are equal in the eyes of God.

  224. Warren Jeffs is the True Prophet and always will be, no matter what anybody may think.

  225. Anon at 7:40 pm: If I recall, he said in prison he was not the true prophet, and he never had been. He also admitted that he sexuallly molested members of his family, including his sister who committed suicide.
    How can someone be a true prophet if they violate God’s law?

  226. “Why, oh why, did this not get him run out of his own town on a rail the very first time it was read?”

    He did get tarred and feathered once. I have Mormons tell me that was evidence of persecution. I told them it was evidence of loving fathers and brothers protecting their womenfolk. 😉

  227. “Warren Jeffs is the True Prophet and always will be, no matter what anybody may think.”

    Catwhisperer is the True Prophetess and always will be, no matter what anybody may think.

    So, Cat, any good, new revelations for us? 😀

  228. Keep sweet now Rebeckah !

  229. Rebeckah,
    I do have a revelation for this evening : Afghan child brides are being flogged for running away from their husbands

    http://video.nytimes.com/video/2010/05/30/world/asia/1247467951940/afghan-girls-flogged-for-running-away-.html

  230. I saw that. It’s disgusting and it’s what patriarchy brings to the world. There are times men disgust me so much!

  231. The LDS version of Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar completely contradicts the Bible.

    In the Bible, it was Sarah’s idea – not God’s – for Abraham to take Hagar so that she could have Hagar’s children as her own.

    God so opposed the Abraham/Hagar union that He commanded Abraham to send Hagar and their son together away. God provided for Hagar and Ishmael, because of his covenant with Abraham, but Ishmael is the father of Islam and the conflict between it and Judaism to this day.

    Yeah, I know, some people just like to come up with their own versions of the Bible and US Constitution themselves to serve whatever selfish purpose they have. In this case, it’s polygamy and child-rape.

  232. I suppose the LDS read the Revised Version of the New Testament rewritten by Joseph Smith.

    Emma took the revise version back East after Smith died and the Reformed LDS own the publishing rights to it.

    Funny they own the rights to the Temple site and the revised New Testament.

  233. I suppose the LDS read the Revised Version of the New Testament rewritten by Joseph Smith.
    Emma took the revise version back East after Smith died and the Reformed LDS own the publishing rights to it.
    Funny they own the rights to the Temple site and the revised New Testament.

    Wrong, the LDS use the KJV, the temple site in Navuoo, Illinios doesn’t belong to Community of Christ aka RLDS, it belongs to LDS.

    The Community of Christ (RLDS) owns the Kirkland Temple site in Ohio.

    An example from the LDS scriptures: Galations 3: vrs 26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
    27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gal/3

    http://scriptures.lds.org/en/ot/epstlddc

    http://scriptures.lds.org/en/nt/contents

  234. To me, its this stanza that gives me the creeps:

    ———–

    “4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting acovenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.”

    ————————-

    I dont understand how a member of a group can follow or decide to not follow this kind of directive with a straight face.

  235. It really pisses me off because to me, he likens it to the power of Jesus.

    In one fell swoop he forgets Jesus and makes polygamy the ultimate factor.

  236. Stamp,

    This verse which you quoted reveals the coercive nature of polygamy in the FLDS.

    How can the apologists say that these FLDS women freely
    choose polygamy when in fact they face eternal damnation if they do not participate ?

    Did the women who participate in polygamy in the FLDS sect do so because they enjoy the polygamous lifestyle, or did they enter polygamous unions because they wanted to achieve the salvation of their immortal souls?

    I would offer you that it is the latter.

    This is NOT a free choice.

  237. Indeed CW.

    Its just a huge red flag. Its unadulterated abuse!

  238. Over the holiday weekend, I met my daughter and 15yr grandaughter in Los Angeles for a sporting event. In the drawer in our hotel room was a Book of Mormon! Right next to the good old Gideon Bible. I’d never seen that before. We got into a rousing discussion of LSD vs FLDS. God bless my 15yr old GD…the thought of being ANYONE’S bride at her age disgusted her. When I told her they did it…of their own free will [as they like to say], she gave me a look that all but screamed….”Oh puleeeeeeez!!!” She said, they…”are poor, uneducated robots living on a breeding farm!”
    My daughter has both of Carolyn’s books, just no time [as with most busy mom’s] to sit and read. I hope she has time to, soon.

  239. MC

    Were you at the Marriot? That may be the reason.

  240. I wonder how many tunnels they have under the compound using that infamous rock saw.

  241. Stamp…Yes we were. I guess I’d never looked in the desk drawer before…and won’t again!

  242. so Marriot is LDS?

  243. Williard Marriott Jr, Chairman and CEO of Marriott International is an area authority in the LDS church and is a member of the 6th quorum of 70.

  244. And he has a right to keep a BOM in his hotel rooms, as is customary also with Gideon’s bibles.

    Whether you read it or not is up to you 😉

  245. A Texan I have a correction to make.

    The Temple Lot in Independance Missouri is owned by “The Church of Christ”.

    The RLDS sued the “Church of Christ” for the 2 acre plot which is to house the “Temple”, but lost on appeal in 1930.

    The over 63 acre plots are shared by RLDS, Church of Christ (Hedrickites) and the LDS.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Lot#Selection_of_the_site

    I never mentioned Navuoo, Illinios.
    And yes Kirkland is owned and operated by the RLDS.

    Very interesting place to visit.
    To bad Joseph Smith did not keep his church this simple.

  246. Yes, Marriott is LDS owned.
    So are a lot of other corporations.
    http://mormontruth.blogspot.com/2005/09/some-interesting-tidbits-on-mormon.html

  247. Marriott Intl. is a publicly traded company so it is hardly owned by the LDS church.

  248. The founder John Willard Marriott was Mormon.

  249. Warren Jeffs is Perfect and so is Lyle Jeffs and Wendell Neilsen

  250. Chemist,
    What is the significance of the Sixth Quorum of 70 ?

  251. Who is this nocturnal troll who continually sings the praises of Warren Jeffs?
    How can Warren Jeffs be perfect when he is an self proclaimed rapist of his own sister ?
    How many Biblical laws has this man violated ?
    How then could he possibly be perfect ?

  252. Frankly I think it’s the best example of mysogyny that I’ve seen in many a day and I really wonder why any woman would be a part of such a religion, but then I wonder that about Catholic women too.
    Rebeckah said this on May 31, 2010 at 5:07 PM

    IMO we need the LDS men & woman as well as the men & woman of the Roman Catholic to end the polygamy problem, posting this type of message will be seen in a negative manner members of both churches.

    The key to getting change in Utah is getting the LDS on board on enforcing polygamy laws, we also need the Catholics, as Boots pointed out in an eariler post both the mainline churches ie (Catholic, Baptists etc) as well as LDS church looked the other way. By making comments Catholics & LDS might find offensive we drive away those who might want to help.

    We need folks like Chemist who LDS, we need the posters that are Catholic out there. Lets not drive them away even if we might not agree with teachings of their faiths.

  253. Lyle Jeffs is a Great man and Great Husband

  254. Funny you should say that about Lyle. Someone I talk to tells me has always had a penchant for filthy jokes.

    Maybe he doesnt tell them to the ladies?

    As far as Warren goes, he’s in prison so he isnt THAT perfect. And Wendell looks to be going there too!

  255. Filthy jokes? Like what? He is a very clean man

  256. Found this on the web, LDS church’s statement on polygamy:

    http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?index=16&locale=0&sourceId=9887ec6f164b2110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

  257. I was born into the Catholic faith, and I am here.
    I don’t find Rebeckah’s post to be offensive in any way.
    Many Catholic women feel this way, and we should be able to express our feelings without others telling us what to feel and what we may write.

    The last time I went to confession, a priest who barely spoke English told me that he wanted me to give up my ideals of practicing medicine so that I could realize my true calling to be a wife and a mother – as if I could not do both.
    That was the last time I ever went to confession – and yes, I am a feminist and an anti-polygamy activist.

    There are plenty of mainstream churches which oppose polygamy and offer assistance to those exiting polygamy. You simply aren’t aware of them.

    For example, the Lutheran church in Utah as well as the Baptist churches in Utah help rescue women from polygamy. Doris Hanson’s group is Evangelical Lutheran, and they get significant support from the Baptist Church in SLC as well. Mary Mackert, a Baptist missionary, is also very active.

    Rebeckah has every right to state her feelings, and she should not be censored.

  258. Anon

    Sex jokes. Ask him.

  259. He would never talk like that, he is a clean and honest man.

  260. Filthy jokes? Like what? He is a very clean man
    Anonymous said this on June 1, 2010 at 8:42 PM

    Not likely, Warren Jeffs is as filthy as they come, as one poster pointed out Jeffs has violated every rule of human decency in the Bible, and Book of Mormon that he claims to follow, Warren gets a mention: 3 Nephi chapter 14 vrs 15 to 20

    15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
    17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
    18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
    19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
    20 Wherefore, by their fruits ye shall know them.

    And yes we found Waren Jeffs in the Bible:

    Matthew Chapter 7 vrs 15 ¶ Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening dwolves.
    16 Ye shall aknow them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
    17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a ccorrupt tree bringeth forth devil fruit.
    18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
    19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good afruit is bhewn down, and cast into the fire.
    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

    Well the fruits of Warren , Willie the thug, Wendell etc are unhappiness, heartache, hurt and pain.

  261. Anon,
    Are you willing to acknowledge that Warren Jeffs is a self confessed rapist and therefore could not be the prophet ?

  262. Anon

    His nickname is “Uncle Lily”, a play off the way his name his spelled.

    He probably didnt tell dirty sex jokes to the ladies. But you likely know his other reputation, as an unpopular bully, no?

    Dig your head out.

  263. Oh and what does UEP Trust stand for?

    Under Warren, it was the “United Extortion Plan Trust”….

    PS I have more…………..

  264. Some folks worship felons in prison, it happens. Evil exists.

  265. Why would his nickname be uncle lily?
    and i know he would never bully anybody or tell any unclean jokes, he is the Bishop remember

  266. “Why would his nickname be uncle lily?
    and i know he would never bully anybody or tell any unclean jokes, he is the Bishop remember”

    L Y L E

    Pronounced “Lily”

    He is the Bishop and he damn well better keep his nose clean or he will prove to all what an apostate he is!

  267. FLDS Admins,
    Is there objective information on Lyle Jeffs on this website ?
    Maybe Anon could review it

  268. Besides

    I dont know if you have it figured out yet

    In the FLDS its not who you know

    Its who you ____

  269. Many have reported he is a bully. In fact, we have evidence of him following Warrens orders and the documentation of his conversations as he was driving about town kicking men out, and stealing their homes and families.

    Will be back with the link. He has a lot of dirt on his hands, by doing Warrens bidding.

    Admin

  270. Here is the link. You can read the comments, and the original documentation of Lyle kicking fellow FLDS men to the curb.

    https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/02/12/handled/

  271. WOW

    I remember that! What a nice guy, I wonder how many brownie points Warren gave him to be his FLDS bouncer,

    Oh, I guess enough to get his Bishophoodlumness.

  272. If you read what Lyle said during his meetings with these men, you will see that he was nothing but engouraging to them, even telling them he loves them and hugging them, which shows he only wants the best for them.

    I know some of his wives and they all respect him and have only good things to say about him and he is a great Father and Husband, he lives in a modest home and gives all his time to being the Bishop instead of getting rich running businesses

  273. Well Anonymous, it seems that Bishop Lyle has a particular talent for homewrecking. He separately families under orders from Warren Jeffs.

    One wonders how he can possibly be a bishop, given that Christ himself commanded that “what God has joined together, let NO MAN put asunder”
    Obviously he is not fulfilling that injunction.

  274. sorry, above should read “he separated families under orders from Warren Jeffs.”

  275. If you had ever actually meet him you would know what a great man he is and how well he treats people. especially women

  276. Anonymous,
    He can treat women very well, but he does not follow the commandment of Christ regarding marriage – very obviously.

  277. “We need folks like Chemist who LDS, we need the posters that are Catholic out there. Lets not drive them away even if we might not agree with teachings of their faiths.”

    A Texan, I was stating my mystification with why women choose to be part of patriarchal religions — they tend to relegate women to second class citizenship. I’m not trying to malign the religions — it’s just a puzzlement to me. I understand that different people find peace and satisfaction in different belief systems. I apologize if my inability to understand those choices makes people feel offended. I am not intending to be offensive.

    Please accept my apologies.

  278. He follows the prophet who follows God. so of course he follows all the laws of marriage.

  279. what type of sex jokes?

  280. The laws of marriage do not state that one man may decide the worth of another man and if he’s found lacking he forfeits his wife and family. Some of the girls in FLDS have had multiple partners by the time they are 20. This is no different than a girl on the outside having multiple sex partners.

    And dont say FLDS girls are married, because there is no law or document that validates a man marrying more than one woman. When you switch the women around constantly, destroy the concept of family by breaking it up, you are not following the laws of marriage or God.

    What you are doing is following a false prophet and allowing yourself to be a victim.

  281. I find it troubling that the Marriott chain of hotels is run by a powerful LDS church family and they make a lot of money showing pornographic movies on Pay Per View in their hotel chain. Supposedly, the LDS church is very much against pornography, yet this LDS family owned business continues to provide this type of entertainment in their hotel rooms.

    I have always found this practice to be extremely hypocritical of the “family values” the LDS try to portray.

    Why does Bill Marriott allow this, if his church is so against it? Shouldn’t the Marriotts practice what they preach, or is the revenue more important?

  282. So. That one posting concubine and friend of concubines and criminals pretends to not know the evil among them. I hope she reads the texts in Warren’s own words and other witnesses’ reports of the evil and wrongs of those among them.

    Being told those evil actions are ok and that you must parrot what you’re told or you go to hell is what the real world call brainwashing, more specifically BS.

  283. What is most shocking to me is that Warren and Lyle Jeffs broke families apart, yet they claim to be Christian.
    How is this compatible with Christian teaching, given that Christ taught that marriages should be lifelong commitments ?

    As for Bill Marriott, I fail to understand why he is permitted to occupy such a high rank in the LDS Church if he allows Pay Per View pornography in his hotel chain.
    But wait, I do understand why he is permitted to remain in that high position – it’s the TITHES and DONATIONS the church has been receiving from him !

  284. This may have already been posted, the next FLDS trial starts 9 June 2010.
    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/may/19/several-motions-heard-in-flds-case/

  285. If you read what Lyle said during his meetings with these men, you will see that he was nothing but engouraging to them, even telling them he loves them and hugging them, which shows he only wants the best for them.
    ——–
    So it’s like the proverbial “kiss of death” but with hugs instead. Kinda like Judas, even.

  286. How can it be loving to kick someone out of their home and separate them from their wives and children? The only behaviors that I can think of that warrant such an action involve violence, rape, theft and other very serious crimes.

    Betty

  287. Another Utah oddball.

    Jailed for Sexual Healing Page 1

    http://www.cityweekly.net/utah/article-11364-jailed-for-sexual-healing.html

  288. I hear that there is a lot of interest in Eastern religions and Eastern mysticism in those who leave fundamentalism in Utah. Is this true ?

  289. catwhisperer I am not aware of that, except it appears to be the case with this woman.

  290. Utah drivers are the WORST in the country after New Mexico.

    This article is really funny if you know that the written part of the driving test is OPEN BOOK.

    Utah drivers rank 23rd in national written test

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700036912/Utah-drivers-rank-23rd-in-written-test.html

  291. France is taking a very pro-active stance against polygamy – see this :

    http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia-49000520100602

  292. viva la France!

  293. Brooke Adams has twitterd on her blaugh “Thanks for the personal msgs on Twitter! I have been on a much needed extended break. Back to work June 9. 1 day ago.”

    Does that mean that she needed a rest before covering the upcoming child sexual assault case of Abram Harker Jeffs scheduled to start June 9th in Texas?

    Or does this mean that she is just a twitt?

  294. What is most shocking to me is that Warren and Lyle Jeffs broke families apart, yet they claim to be Christian.
    How is this compatible with Christian teaching, given that Christ taught that marriages should be lifelong commitments ?

    …………………………..

    These people are not Christians. Jesus taught forgiveness and acceptance. Warren Jeffs teaches expulsion and rejection.

    Oh, and Christ also very clearly said there is No. Marriage. In. Heaven.

    The FLDS are not Christian, they are JosephSmithians.

  295. Yes, Christ said that people are not married or given in marriage in the afterlife.
    You got that right, Mouse!

  296. Sons of Perdition wins awards at Telluride Film Festival

    http://www.telluridenews.com/articles/2010/05/27/news/doc4bff3e9a9547c448809832.txt

  297. Sons of Perdition wins awards at Telluride Film Festival

    Cat this is a nice story, but does not mention any awards?

    Curious

  298. Read their Facebook page.
    They won the Director’s Award.

  299. read this article –
    http://www.telluridenews.com/articles/2010/06/01/news/doc4c05b67ca070c493023142.txt

  300. Thanks Anon,
    They won the Director’s Choice Award, as cited in your article.

  301. Do where can the film be seen online or can it?

  302. It is not online yet, Anonymous. It is being presented at different film festivals around the country. Check their Facebook page for details.

  303. i don’t think brooke will cover the abram jeffs trial. her paper apparently has an agreement with the standard times about the coverage.

  304. maybe someone from flds texas will cover the trial.
    any volunteers ?

  305. I would volunteer but Judge Walthers very rudely decided to hold the trials in Texas instead of up here in Washington where I might have been able to attend. 😉

  306. The nerve of that woman !

  307. I’m thinking about going, but since it’s going to be in Eldorado instead of San Angelo, that makes it a bit tougher to attend.

    Does anyone remember what day of the trial Rebecca usually testifies? I would love to hear her.

  308. ProudTexan, so the nation’s only “polygamy beat” reporter can just Twitter about the polygamous child molesters being tried in Texas?

    Since nothing was Twitted about Lehi Barlow Jeffs’ April plea bargain or Dr. Lloyd Hammon Barlow’s sanction by the Texas Medical Board, then I doubt much will be Twitted about Abram Harker Jeffs’ trial starting next week.

    Geesh, why have a “polygamy beat” reporter if she isn’t going to report on polygamy?

  309. Good question, anon! Guess there are other fish to fry for her.

    Since hers are all cooked already, maybe she is looking for more stories of crazy religious fanatics.

    Speaking of which, the ME is bubbling up, we’ve all likely been aware. Lots of accusations back and forth.

    Truth is, the Love Boat people attacked the IDF. Shit happened.

    This video is a parody of the faux-outrage of uninformed Euro-pansies.

  310. At the end, Bob Dylan, LMAO!

  311. In the past trials, they usually have the Texas Rangers testify 1st to lay foundation for the evidence collected against the perpetrator. Then a DNA expert. Becky Musser has been the next witness called to testify about the beliefs practiced by the FLDS.

    I would guess she will be on the stand the 2nd day of the trial. They will have opening statements, then the Texas Rangers and maybe a DNA expert, then Becky will probably follow.

    However, if Judge Walther keeps the trial going well into the night, she might testify late on the 1st day. But, there is a request for the judge to recess by 6 PM.

  312. Thanks Anon. I remember that Carolyn doesn’t testify until the punishment phase. Becky was a step-momma to old Abram since she was married to his daddy.

  313. I agree Rebeckah, how unfair of Judge Walther not to move the trial to Washington, especially since it’s suppose to be in the high 90s near 100 next week.

  314. And it’s about time too, Proud Texan! It’s been raining FOREVER! I’m starting to wonder if I was accidentally teleported to Seattle. 😀

  315. I’ve tried to read back thru all the comments, but I don’t see it…when is the next trial??

  316. Tomorrow – Abram Harker Jeffs

  317. Abram’s trial might not start until Wednesday. Trying to find out.

  318. Thought this might interest some of you.

    http://www.editinternational.com/read.php?id=48220e16294c6

  319. and here, an article on polygamy as it is permissible according to Islamic law vs. how it is actually practiced in Saudi Arabia.
    Take home point :
    Polygamy is permissible to take care of orphans and widows according to the Qu’ran, but that is not what happens in actual practice.
    Widows and orphans are not the brides….
    It appears to be quite controversial, take a look at the comments.

    http://americanbedu.com/2010/06/01/saudi-arabia-polygamy-%E2%80%93-who%E2%80%99s-more-at-fault/

  320. Apparently most Ugandans want polygamy abolished :

    http://nvisionugmonitr.com/5022575ub/-insight-ugandans-want-smaller-districts.htm?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=newVisionUganda

  321. Just got confirmation that Abram’s trial will start Wednesday the 9th. He’s got 2 extra days to decide to run.

  322. Proud,
    Do you think he will plead guilty, or will he fight ?

  323. soon the world will know the truth and all the persecuted men will be free, espesically The Prophet.

  324. anonymous @9:16, keep dreaming. soon all the world will know the truth about what a pedophile warren “the prophet” jeffs really is and how a bunch of stupid people followed him straight into hell.

  325. cat, i don’t think he’s going to plead guilty, he’s not that smart. not only did he had a child with his underage wife, he also had at least one child with his stepmother. that’s a no no too.

  326. that anon @9:27 was me. for some reason my name disappeared.

  327. Lyle will be the next Prophet

  328. hopefully he’s up to his neck in the corruption being investigated in the crik right now by arizona and can join his brother in the prison system.

  329. The Bishop has not been involved in any sort of corruption

  330. you are dreaming anon @10:01, that’s like saying that warren, raymond, leroy, emack, keate, and lehi didn’t marry and get underage girls pregnant.

  331. Im am not aware of any underage girls becoming pregnant and I dont beleive that at all.

  332. I can only vouch for Lyle whom I know to be perfect in every way.

  333. I can only vouch for Lyle whom I know to be perfect in every way

  334. well anon, you keep right on thinking that lyle is perfect, maybe you’ll get an ajoining cell with him. as for no underage girls becoming pregnant, there are already 5 men in prison and a 6 on who’s trial starts on wednesday. that says you don’t have a clue what you are talking about. pull your head out of the sand, wake up and smell the coffee before you become another bot blindly following the idiots in charge.

  335. He will never have a cell

  336. If anybody here cares for the truth please visit truthwillprevail.org or fldstruth.org

  337. I am still waiting for proof that Lyle has ever said any sort of bad jokes or done anything else bad, all I have witnessed is what a great man he is and what great ladies his wives are. THey live very simply and yet are very happy with it, and also he has definately never married or gotten pregnant an underage girl.

  338. anon, you are totally unbelievable. the truthwillprevail is nothing but a pack of 1/2 truths and lies. why don’t you open your eyes and step out in the light? i can only imagine how you are going to respond when warren goes on trial for his marriage to merrianne jessop. that’s a “can’t miss” in my book.

  339. Im not talking about The Prophet I am talking about The Bishop

  340. oops, you lose, mable annette jessop was only 16 when he married her as his 4th wife. lyle also helped his brother warren when he was on the run which isn’t kosher.

  341. You have no proof that she was 16

  342. btw – lyle was 43 and mable was 16. ewwwwwwwww.

  343. wrong again anon, but thanks for playing.

  344. lyle has like 15 wives and lives in a huge stolen house…

  345. I dont beleive you have proof

  346. check out the dictations of his loving brother. lyle’s marriage to mable is detailed in his dictations. since mable was born in 10/1987 and married the old geiser in 12/2003, that makes her 16 marrying a 43 year old as his 4th wife. oops, that’s against the law, not only the 16 year old part, the 4th wife part.

  347. hey anon at 11:15, i’ve only got 6 wives for lyle, i must be behind times.

  348. lol

    Like anyone cares what some “anonymous” person on the internet “believes”. Believe what you like, anonymous it won’t stop the sun from shining. It won’t change the ages of the teens who gave birth before they could finish growing up. It won’t change the lives interrupted and even ended thanks to Warren Jeffs and his lackeys greed and hunger for power. If any of those men are your idea of “perfection” then you live in a very sad, very small, very unhappy place.

  349. Its not very respectful to read private writings of The Prophet, and they could very well be fakes or altered. So who sayd Lyle even has 4 wives?

  350. Look at photos of his wives and you will see they are all of age and all very happy

  351. i have absolutely no respect for warren jeffs. he is a criminal and deserves any and everything he gets. as for lyle having 4 wives, he’s got at least 6. that was detailed in his bishop’s record.

    like rebeckah said, you are a sad person fighting a battle you can’t win. the documents and the proof are there and if utah would wake up and do what texas is doing, lyle would get to join the merry 5, soon to be 6 in prison.

  352. I would be honoured to be his wife as would my friends

  353. they might be of age now, but that makes no difference, the girl was still 16 when lyle married her in 2003.

  354. I dont feel to look at the age of someone but to look at if they have the spirit of god within them or not, and I for one can see the spirit of god shining brightly in The Bishop and of course in all the faithful

  355. then go throw yourself at him anon, just quit trying to nominate him for sainthood. he doesn’t qualify.

  356. dang you’re dense anon, the law doesn’t give a rat about the “spirit of god within them” it cares about the age when they were married off and deflowered. hopefully i’ll meet this paragon you’ve built up when i make a trip to the crik, until then i’ll just believe he’s another sap who can’t think for himself and takes orders from a convicted criminal.

  357. He would not be on any Bishops record as he is the Bishop

  358. It make me sad that you all dont yet regonise his greatness, for you surely will someday

  359. he’s not the bishop at the yfz and he had wives and kids there, probably still does, but even the bishop fills out a bishop’s list with himself and his family members on it.

    just curious, how long has he been the bishop in the crik? i thought william timpson aka jessop was the bishop there. did that willie get kicked out? and there there’s willie “the thug” jessop. does he have a title in the crik besides jerk?

  360. who’s greatness am i not recognizing? (you misspelled the word btw). did you finish higher than 8th grade? but just in case you are referring to anyone within the flds, i’m gonna let that pass because i will NEVER recognize any of those criminals as being anything more than a common criminal who fleeced the poor people of the crik.

  361. He had been Bishop for a while and is the only one who deserves to be
    plus I know he is not on any Bishops list

  362. If Bishop Lyle has more than one wife, he does not meet criteria established in the New Testament for bishops.
    The New Testament clearly states that a bishop must be the husband of only one wife.
    So if Lyle has more than one wife, he cannot be a Bishop.
    So much for having the “spirit of God” within him.

  363. guess you don’t read much anon, he is listed on the bishop’s listings from the yfz. if you claim to not know much then you sure aren’t keeping up with the news cuz that’s old news. if you don’t believe me, just ask lyle yourself, you seem so enamored with the guy, or better yet, ask mable how old she was when she married the old fart.

    and yeah cat, lyle’s no bishop.

  364. Mabel is older than me and has only one child so she cant of been married young as she is 23

  365. hey anon you’d better not let warren catch you saying that, he’ll kick you out so fast your head will spin.

  366. duh, she was married in 2003 which was 7 years ago. if she’s 23 now, 23 – 7 = 16. can’t you do simple math.

  367. as for only having 1 child, lyle must not be performing his duties very well, just sayin!!!

  368. Lyle is not on ANY bishop list

  369. Who is this barely literate ‘anonymous’, eh? My least child wrote and spelled better before she began public school.

  370. I know for sure he is not on any bishop list,there is no evidence of that at all

  371. Nocturnal Anonymous FLDS :
    I know that you must believe in the New Testament.
    The New Testament states that a bishop must be the husband of only one wife. “Bishop” Lyle does not meet criteria.
    See the verse here :

    http://bible.cc/1_timothy/3-2.htm

  372. Catwhisperer, while you’re there, get them to read Leviticus 18 and see the rules against marrying your father’s wives, your wife’s daughters, two sisters, etc. Those are abominations in the eyes of God.

    Betty

  373. anon @12:49, you bored me last night, so i went to bed, but newsflash for you. lyle does have a household listing in the bishop’s list and is mentioned numerous times in the dictations. he is not some paragon of virtue and he most definitely married a 16 year old. you go back to your delusional life and you’d probably better stop reading and posting here since it is monitored by your group’s enforcers. i’d hate for you to be exed over it.

    but then being exed isn’t the worst thing that can happen, it would probably help you learn to think for yourself.

  374. You are absolutely correct, Betty. I will post those as well.

  375. For Betty:

    Leviticus 18

    1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘I am the LORD your God. 3 You must not do as they do in Egypt, where you used to live, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you. Do not follow their practices. 4 You must obey my laws and be careful to follow my decrees. I am the LORD your God. 5 Keep my decrees and laws, for the man who obeys them will live by them. I am the LORD.

    6 ” ‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD.

    7 ” ‘Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

    8 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; that would dishonor your father.

    9 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born in the same home or elsewhere.

    10 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter; that would dishonor you.

    11 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father’s wife, born to your father; she is your sister.

    12 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister; she is your father’s close relative.

    13 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, because she is your mother’s close relative.

    14 ” ‘Do not dishonor your father’s brother by approaching his wife to have sexual relations; she is your aunt.

    15 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your son’s wife; do not have relations with her.

    16 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife; that would dishonor your brother.

    17 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

    18 ” ‘Do not take your wife’s sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while your wife is living.

    19 ” ‘Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations during the uncleanness of her monthly period.

    20 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife and defile yourself with her.

    21 ” ‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed [a] to Molech, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.

    22 ” ‘Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

    23 ” ‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion.

    24 ” ‘Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled. 25 Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants. 26 But you must keep my decrees and my laws. The native-born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things, 27 for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled. 28 And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.

    29 ” ‘Everyone who does any of these detestable things—such persons must be cut off from their people. 30 Keep my requirements and do not follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them. I am the LORD your God.’ “

  376. Verse 17 is especially interesting, it catches a lot of them going and coming. Wendell and Merril come to mind and then verse 18 gets a bunch more cuz man do those men marry sisters.

  377. Thanks for posting from Leviticus, Proud.

    Anonymous Nocturnal FLDS Poster :
    Warren Jeffs cannot be a prophet, nor can he be perfect, as you claim, since he violated Old Testament regulations prohibiting marriage between a man and two living sisters, as he arranged or performed these marriages.

  378. don’t forget about the mother/daughter prohibition. not only did he perform the ceremonies involving others, he married sisters and mother/daughters himself.

  379. hey nocturnal anon, how old is this only child of mable? if the child is 6 then not only would mable have married underage, she’d have gotten pregnant and given birth underage also.

  380. Proud,

    It should be noted that if Warren Jeffs is a Christian, he must follow the laws of the land in which he dwells. Warren Jeffs did not obey the law when he married an underage girl. Jeffs stated specifically that he arranged underaged marriages to invoke the wrath of the government.

    What does the Christian religion teach about obedience to the law ?

    See here Nocturnal FLDS Anon :

    Epistle of St. Paul to the Romans, Chapter 13:

    1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God’s servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God’s servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

  381. This business of being “perfect in every way” is so odd. Most Christians accept that no one is perfect and that is one reason they need God in their lives. Jesus Christ was the only perfect man. Granted we are to strive to live the best we can and avoid sin, but who really thinks they are perfect? I KNOW I am not.

    Does this insistance that their prophet or bishop or other leaders are “perfect in every way” really indicate a sincere belief or is it a desperate attempt to stand up for them?

  382. Warren also married his father’s wives and claims in his own words to have defiled his sister.

  383. oh yeah, warren married a bunch of his father’s wives and had kids with them. he also married numerous sister combos, which include his first 2 wives. annette and barbara barlow are full sisters.

  384. older anon, i think you’re 2nd though is correct, it is an attempt to stand up for them, probably hoping someone will notice and elevate them to a higher level.

  385. Boy is it sad to think they are more concerned with impressing or obeying the MEN of the group than they are to impress or obey God, the one who ultimately makes the last judgement about the hereafter. Wish whoever is posting on here was a for real member of the group and might possibly see the truth for what it is. Might just be someone fake posting to get a rise out of the rest of us. Hope not.

  386. i agree it is sad, but if it is someone simply to get a rise, all they will get is information proving how incorrect they really are.

  387. Why cant everybody here mind there own business and leave the church alone

  388. why can’t you learn the difference between there and their.

  389. but the real answer anon is that if the church weren’t breaking laws, no one would give a flip about it, so tell the church to stop breaking the law and everyone will leave the church alone.

  390. maybe it’s Ruth?

  391. Anon 7:49…Church? Or criminal enterprise..? It’s turning out to be much more the latter than the former. Lying for God? Cheatng for God? Raping for God? Ahhh, the things one can overlook for their church and their God/prophet. Must be lovely to live in such heavenly bliss… 5 men convicted and you still believe it’s all lies…a giant miscarriage of justice. I can only imagine the koolaid you must be drinking, by the gallon,to keep ‘faith’ with a ‘reigion’ that condones such suffering to it’s members.

  392. You dont know the truth until you expereince it first hand so you cant claim its bad if you have never lived within it

  393. Anon 7:54…. Ruth is usually much more wordy and disjointed in her typing. At least from what I’ve seen on another blog. But, it coud be. Anon 7:49…give yourself a name [make one up] so we know how to address you.

  394. Anon 8:04… I don’t need to live in a world like that to know it’s not right. I’d rather live in a world of free will, free speech, and without fear of someone coming in the middle of the night to throw my father out and take away his wife, and children and tell them he no longer exists. Proof of which does exist.

  395. maybe it’s nocturnal anon from last night.

  396. Lyles family is definately not listed in the bishop’s list that is posted on this website so that proves you were wrong

  397. Warren, is that you ?

  398. i didn’t say it was posted on this website. sweet, i think you might be right, warren, you need to get off the computer now.

    but nocturnal, you never answered how old mable’s “only” child is. my guess is that he/she’s about 6.

  399. then you have no proof and are probabley just making it up tp try and make the Bishop look bad

  400. look closely at that list nocturnal, merril and warren’s lists aren’t there either and they both had wives and children on the ranch. does that tell you anything? what it should tell you is that all of them weren’t published on the website.

  401. I dont feel to tell you how old he is its not really anyones business

  402. if they were published on the website then they obviuosly dont exsist as if they did, im sure they would be the first ones you would put up since they are the Prophet and two Bishops

  403. see, he’s 6 and was born when she was still underage. oops, there goes lyle’s sainthood.

  404. believe whatever you want nocturnal, I really don’t care, we both know what a piece of slime lyle is, just like his brothers.

  405. FLDS Anon

    “2010/06/07 at 7:49 PM
    Why cant everybody here mind there own business and leave the church alone”

    Suppose we will leave the molesters alone when they start leaving the little girls alone. Until then we will bap them upside the head with reality.

    Sux, donut?

  406. you have no proof that lyle is slime because no such proof exsists

  407. FLDS Texas, where is Nocturnal Anon posting from ?

  408. OK anon’s, please give yourself some sort of a handle, y’all are coming out of the woodwork.

  409. it probably ain’t the crik cuz then lyle or willie or one of the other slimy thugs would have already driven by and cut it off.

    and nocturnal, as for lyle being slime, you have your opinion and i have mine. hopefully my opinion will prevail, but i have been known to be wrong every once in a while. not often, but on occasion.

  410. i sure am hoping wee willie shows up for abram’s trial. i wonder if he’s going to claim close personal kinship with abram so he can sit in the courtroom and stare daggers at the potential jurors.

    i also wonder how many flds will show up to serve. hopefully this time they’ll remember whether or not they are related to the defendant and/or the victim. janet jeffs nielsen conveniently forgot that she was the victim’s aunt in raymond jessop’s trial. it was eventually pointed out to her, but that can be a bit embarrassing dontchaknow.

  411. Mid to lower state NY, Spring Valley NY, but perhaps using a service that originates there. Pretty far from YFZ though and definitely not Shortcreek.

    I smell a rat, likely someone playing games. No proof of anything if they can only put Lyle on a pedestal of sand.

  412. Arent they all related? Go back far enough. Thats why they all look funny aint it?

  413. Too funny, a little too much truth!

  414. FLDS Texas,
    Thanks for the info. It is a game player.

  415. i haven’t been able to find any common relatives for wee willie and abram. we’ll see what he tells judge walther.

  416. Oh here it is

    Parting funny for the evening!

    http://www.bpmmm.com/2010/06/real-housewives-of-warren-jeffs.html

  417. Oh yeah, the video is broke in half by a fake commercial.

  418. that was too funny.

  419. the fake commercial was funny too.

  420. Gotta laugh! Better than Oprah!

  421. Mo Rocca and Tim Gunn flesh out FLDS Fashion

    This one is cleaner.

  422. I think I loved the fake commercial most! What woman wouldn’t want a hairy chest? lol!

  423. FLDS Texas,
    There is no pro-polygamy group in the area of Spring Valley to the best of my knowledge.

  424. There are internet service providers for people who are mobile, for instance, for truck drivers. The IP address will always show the location of the service, not the location of the mobile unit connected to it. So it might be someone we already know.

    Betty

  425. i agree betty, it could also be someone using a proxy servers.

  426. Has the book that was to be written by Carolyn Jessop’s daughter been released? It would be interesting to read her perspective. Is she still a part of the flds or did she leave? Do we know who all has left?

  427. betty’s still in as far as i know and so far no book has been written.

  428. Betty is in, but according to Carolyn’s latest book, Carolyn and Betty are now on speaking terms with each other.

  429. i think they were prior to carolyn’s testimony at leroy’s trial, but after that i’m not so sure. the defense are blaming carolyn for leroy getting 75 years.

  430. Proud,
    I was not aware of this. The book says otherwise. Thanks for the info.
    As an aside, consider signing this petition, it speaks for itself :

    http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/end-female-genital-mutilation-now

  431. i’m not totally certain about the carolyn/betty connection, but she tends to get cut off from betty when the FLDS want to punish carolyn for something and i know they blame her for the sentence leroy got because carolyn’s testimony was the basis for the motion for new trial.

  432. Carolyn Jessop is an apostate so why would betty talk to her at all

  433. Nocturnal Anon, is that you ?

  434. “Betty is in, but according to Carolyn’s latest book, Carolyn and Betty are now on speaking terms with each other.”

    Well that’s very good to hear. Shunning and alienation of family members is a terrible thing.

  435. AN apostate is no longer a family member….

  436. Not in the real world.

    Maybeso in the sick world of hate?

  437. I know the Amish also shun those who leave and the “ban” keeps families from contact with each other. Its like the opposite from the forgiveness and mercy they have shown outsiders like the murderer of children who invaded their group. I suppose keeping their members away from the outside is what they think they have to do to keep their groups from dying out. Anytime we see others as “evil” and to be completely avoided just because they are different – it does not line up with Christianity.

  438. Elderly Anonymous :

    None of us need you to interpret the teachings of the New Testament for us.

    Speaking as someone who knows and has treated many living in New Jersey who have left Pennsylvania Dutch country –

    As a point of information, the Amish in Pennsylvania for the most part do NOT shun those who leave their faith.
    They may not make it public knowledge to their leadership, but for the most part, they still associate with those who leave, very often they keep this private.

  439. Film Follows Teen Exiles from Polygamous Sect
    Sons of Perdition explores polygamy, prairie dresses, and what it means to live in exile.

    http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/sexandgender/2705/film_follows_teen_exiles_from_polygamous_sect/

  440. This article says that Abram’s 15-year-old child bride is the daughter of the ranch’s presiding elder. Are they talking about Merril? I did not realize the victim is Merril’s daughter.

    Polygamist group man faces trial in West Texas
    http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D9G7R7101.html

  441. Sorta. Merril is actually the victim’s stepfather. Her real father was kicked out by Warren Jeffs, then her mother was reassigned to Merril. Merril was acting as the victim’s father at the time of her underage fake-marriage. The girl had two children before turning 18.

    Aaaand, at least one of the victim’s sisters was also in an underage fake-marriage, at age 16. On January 22 of this year, Michael Emack plead no contest to sexual assault charges related to this. He received a seven-year sentence.

  442. Where have all their children gone? Long time passing …

  443. Well Granny, some of them went to the graveyard in Colorado City.

  444. Welfare fraud? Paying employees below minimum wage? Sound familiar? Is there a polygamist handbook somewhere?

    2010French Muslim ‘polygamist’ charged with welfare fraud

    http://www.expatica.com/fr/news/french-news/french-muslim-polygamist–charged-with-welfare-fraud_75193.html

  445. Ellie is right about Merril being Abram’s step-father-in-law. Merril gets around doesn’t he.

  446. Stamp is so good with the YouTube videos. We need Stamp to post a clip of the old Gene and Dave song “Round, round get around – I get around” song in honor of Frederick Merril “Get around” Jessop.

  447. http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/jun/09/arizona-drops-charges-against-flds-prophet-jeffs/

    Arizona has dropped charges against Jeffs.

  448. WOW! I must say that this is indeed bad news, but it has been very trying on these 2 victims. Picaretta et al has made life a living hell for these 2 young ladies and many other witnesses in this Arizona case.

    Besides, when Arizona dropped the incest charges because of their stupid law, that took a lot of the meat out of the case.

    Onward to Texas ya go Warren. AMF.

    Go face the music in a state with some teeth in their laws. Maybe you will finally learn in Texas that you can’t have sex with little girls!

    And a 12-year-old is a LITTLE GIRL.

  449. Yes, Picaretta and others DID make it hell on any witness. That’s what they do in Utah and Arizona. And, like I said last year, they were just holding him “at home” and keeping him comfy and safe from the big bad mean Texans for as long as they could. I just can’t picture Sheriff Duran letting Warren have a phone and laptop in his cell…just cain’t picture it at all.

  450. I don’t think he’ll reside in the Schleicher County jail, I’m betting he’ll end up in the Tom Green County jail.

  451. That last anon was me. I had to reset my browser and it took my name away. I hit send before I realized it was gone

  452. Looks like Warren will make a little side trip to the Utah State Prison before he gets to Texas.

    http://www.mohavecourts.com/highprofile/743%20-%20Court%20Notice%2006-09-10.pdf

  453. Oh wow, yeah, they’ll need a chance to make sure he dies before Texas can get him and expose him and his religion with a trial, for sure…

  454. Not to mention, once publicly exposed, the national attention that would swoop down on Colorado City and….Mohave County.

  455. They need this to all “go away”.

  456. I sure hope somebody cares enough to email Hildebran our Governor and AG and let them know that they want Jeffs here in Texas, pronto.

    If his home county in Arizona could have him all these years without ever putting him on trial, why can’t we have him, since we have a real case and are ready to go?

    I’m just askin’.

  457. That makes sense, the State of Texas will just apply to Utah for his extradition. It’s just a clerical/procedural thing. He was only on loan to Arizona from Utah, now Utah will loan him to Texas.

  458. Real direct like.

  459. Merril’s 17 year old son Parley has been arrested in Eldorado for felony evading arrest. Parley’s the son of Tammy.

  460. Boots, I don’t think that Eric or the AG himself will have a problem filing a motion for Warren to be brought to Texas. Utah’d be stupid to try to fight the Motion.

  461. Too funny: “It would be impractical and unnecessary to spend taxpayer money on this defendant under all the above mentioned circumstances,” Smith wrote.

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gR6yeFiRvZpD1CcBAVjdQkTFjMqAD9G831DO0

    He’s a real fiscal conservative. He kept him in jail at Mohave County taxpayers expense, for years and never went to trial..

    That’s some wise savings for those taxpayers, right?

    What a joke.

  462. Oh wow, yeah, they’ll need a chance to make she he dies before Texas can get him and expose him and his religion with a trial, for sure…

    Boots said this on June 9, 2010 at 7:01 PM

    Go read the link above to the document on the mohavecourts.com site. Utah and Arizona had an agreement while Warren was in Arizona’s temporary custody.

    Per the agreement, Warren has to go back to Utah first before he can go on to Texas. There is nothing sinister about this arrangement – it was their AGREEMENT. Kind of a legal technicality here.

  463. Here’s wikipedia’s take on Intrastate Extradition:

    Interstate extradition

    The Extradition of Fugitives Clause in the Constitution requires States, upon demand of another State, to deliver a fugitive from justice who has committed a “treason, felony or other crime” to the State from which the fugitive has fled. 18 U.S.C. § 3182 sets the process by which an executive of a state, district or territory of the United States must arrest and turn over a fugitive from another state, district or territory.

    In order for a person to be extradited interstate, 18 U.S.C. § 3182 requires:

    * An executive authority demand of the jurisdiction to which a person that is a fugitive from justice has fled.
    * The requesting executive must produce a copy of an indictment found or an affidavit made before a magistrate of any State or Territory, and
    * Such document must charge the fugitive demanded with having committed treason, felony, or other crime, and
    * Such document must be certified as authentic by the governor or chief magistrate of the state or territory from whence the person so charged has fled.
    * The executive receiving the request must then cause the fugitive to be arrested and secured, and notify the requesting executive authority or agent to receive the fugitive.
    * An agent of the executive of the State demanding extradition must appear to receive the prisoner, which must occur within thirty days from time of arrest or the prisoner may be released. (Some states allow longer waiting periods of up to 90 days before release).
    * Cases of kidnapping by a parent to another state would be automatic involvement by the US Marshals department.

  464. Piccarreta said he believes Jeffs will be returned to jail in Utah for those proceedings. He added that defense lawyers will vehemently oppose the extradition proceedings filed by Texas prosecutors, based on allegations of misconduct in raids conducted by rangers during raids on a FLDS compound in that state.
    ———————————

    Good thing some of the evidence against Warren was found in his red Escalade when he was arrested.

  465. He kept him in jail at Mohave County taxpayers expense, for years and never went to trial..

    That’s some wise savings for those taxpayers, right?

    What a joke.

    Boots said this on June 9, 2010 at 7:47 PM

    So Boots, what’s so wrong about Warren being in the Kingman jail? He headed off to Kingman months before the Texas raid and his Texas indictments. Who know there would be a Texas raid, tons of criminal evidence discovered and Texas indictments with DNA evidence?

    You’d be whining if he had been left in the Utah State Prison and never extradited to Arizona to face the charges there.

    You don’t live in Arizona any more, so why are you worrying about the Arizona taxpayers?

  466. Sure seems like the Governor is the one signing the order to me.

    And it sure sounds like Utah could have him for a few months if they want to play nasty.

    I guess it all depends how well Governor Perry and Governor Herbert may play together.

  467. Utah won’t fight Warren’s extradition to Texas. As soon as he was processed at the Utah State Prison, he was extradited to Arizona. Utah certainly doesn’t want him in Utah.

  468. Anon @ 7:56 PM where did you read this?

    Piccarreta said he believes Jeffs will be returned to jail in Utah for those proceedings. He added that defense lawyers will vehemently oppose the extradition proceedings filed by Texas prosecutors, based on allegations of misconduct in raids conducted by rangers during raids on a FLDS compound in that state.

  469. Boots, I don’t think the extradition has anything to do with the governors of the 2 states. I think it has to do with the Departments of Correction and the Departments of Probation and Parole since Warren is no longer a fugitive.

    But, I am not a lawyer.

  470. So why bother taking him back at all? Kingman has a very nice air field and I’m sure a few Rangers would be more than happy to make like Enterprise and go pick him up.

    He can fly a jet back and everything. Y’know, maybe he will always remember flying in his little plane, paid for by the Mohave County taxpayers money, for the Colorado City Independent School District and transporting little girls to Canada…and ferrying women to mental institutions…he can reminisce real nice like, on the way here, on his last human flight.

    Sure it’s in the agreement, so what? Just let us pick him up. Why would they want us to wait even one day to take him off their hands, right?

  471. http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2010/06/09/20100609warren-jeffs-arizona-rape-charges-dropped09-ON.html

    last sentences.

  472. Well, at least I am sure that when he gets to Texas, he will get justice.
    With other states, I am no so sure.
    Thank God for Texas !

  473. Boots, I think that everyone wants to make sure it is done by the book so Pic the Prick can’t file cry foul.

    Prick’s probably already moaning over the loss of income to his retirement fund.

  474. Smooches Cat.

    Hey has nocturnal anon been around lately?

  475. Sure it’s in the agreement, so what? Just let us pick him up. Why would they want us to wait even one day to take him off their hands, right?

    Boots said this on June 9, 2010 at 8:15 PM

    Boots you never cease to amaze me!

  476. Come on Boots, let’s just let it be done by the book. He’ll be in Texas to face the music before you know it.

  477. Nocturnal Anon, where are you ?

    How is the weather in Spring Valley ?

  478. It’s kinda boring without nocturnal here exposing the virtues of lyle jeffs.

  479. Appellant’s brief is due 7/12/10 in Raymond Jessop’s appeal.

  480. IMO they need a change of venue for Warren Jeffs, it would generate more national new media attention if he were tried in a large city like, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio etc.

    And there would be unlimited numbers of jury members available large metro areas with millions of residents. No chance of running out of jury pools like case in Eldorado, TX.

    Wouldn’t be surprised if Utah decides to wash it’s hands of Jeffs if convicted, just send on to Huntsville, TX where he can sing those Texas prison blues!

  481. I never asked for it NOT to be done by the book. Not once. I said Governor Perry should work with Governor Herbert to move things along.

  482. IMHO the Arizona Republic article cited above is just typical FLDS lawyerese BS. Picaretta is a real slime ball and I hope I don’t have to hear that lawyer’s lies and lies and lies and lawyer spin ever again.

    But if that other fabulous attorney from Arizona gets the class action lawsuit going against the FLDS for civil rights violations, I think it would be great entertainment to see these 2 Arizona lawyers go head-to-head against each other.

    It would be very easy to see the good guy attorney vs the bad guy attorney, even without black and white cowboy hats.

  483. Go Warren ya!

  484. I like this, I do, I like it a lot!

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/jun/10/more-than-100-jurors-questioned-as-jeffs-trial/#comments

  485. I just hope they’ll get the 36 jurors necessary to allow for the 22 strikes. Otherwise, do the San Angelo jurors come to Eldorado, or does the entire case move to San Angelo?

    And if the case moves to San Angelo, can’t you just hear the FLDS screams and see the court filings flying trying to fight the change of venue since ole LeRoy didn’t fare so well with San Angelo jurors.

  486. i heard that abram told his attorney to get a jury picked no matter what that he didn’t want it moved to angelo. really can’t blame him since leroy got 75 years while keate and raymond just got 45 between the 2 of them.

  487. that’s too funny panfish, guess we aren’t through with the trials after all.

  488. If all of the polygamous children graduated from high school, Utah would probably rank 2nd.

    Utah ranks 12th in nation for high school graduation rates

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700039357/Utah-ranks-12th-in-nation-for-high-school-graduation-rates.html

  489. Activists in Pakistan are calling for the abolition of polygyny.

    http://www.pakspectator.com/polygamy-violates-a-muslim-woman%E2%80%99s-rights/

  490. It appears that the “second lady” in the marriage of the polygamous South African president Jacob Zuma has discovered her “inner polyandrist”

  491. whoops, here is the link :

    http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/06/10/4491739-s-african-press-to-cheating-first-lady-you-go-girl

  492. Troubles in Europe and Canada with polygamists on welfare :

    http://www.newsrealblog.com/2010/06/10/western-taxpayers-bled-by-polygamous-muslims/?utm_source=co2hog

  493. Polygamy IS the problem.

    Or we could wait for the Muslim population here in the U.S. to develop their own Shariah courts, like they have in Europe. And we can ignore female genital mutilation, wife beating, polygamy, honor killings, child brides and the issuing of fatwās, etc, starting right now, to show how “tolerant” we all are.

    See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil, do no evil…yada yada yada…until someday your great grand daughter is stoned, legally, in the streets for refusing to wear a veil or meeting with a boy, or showing too much skin…

    Oh but it could never happen…yeah, right, whatever.

    “The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.”
    ~Thomas Jefferson

  494. The Muslim situation in Europe is a tragedy. If the Europeans would crack down on polygamy, ban the issuing of fatwas, and increase the penalty for suicide bombing to life in prison, then all the problems with Islamic violence would go away. Actually, since all the terrorism, violence and misogyny associated associated with Islam derives from polygamy, outlawing polygamy would put a stop to terrorism and genital mutilation.

  495. “The most certain test by which we judge whether a country is really free is the amount of security enjoyed by minorities.”

    -Lord Acton

  496. Actually anonymous 11:21 and 11:24pm, the problem is misogyny and malevolent patriarchy –

    Female genital mutilation, Sharia Law and polygyny are simply manifestations of misogyny and malevolent patriarchy.

    The truest test by which we should judge a country is how they protect those individuals who are the most vulnerable in their society – namely women and children. Given that polygyny is associated with adverse outcomes for women and children in many scientific studies, it has no place in a just society.

    Duane – when you post on this site, keep in mind that you have been banned – and have the integrity to use your own handle.

  497. Funny. I pegged that one as duane, also. The “if we stop polygamy, we could end terrorism” was just too typical. He probably thinks he’s really insightful, too! LOL.

    Betty

  498. Betty,
    What happened to your avatar?

  499. “the problem is misogyny and malevolent patriarchy – Female genital mutilation, Sharia Law and polygyny are simply manifestations of misogyny and malevolent patriarchy.”

    Agreed, S.

    The problem with malevolent patriarchy is the same in the FLDS as it is in Islam. It’s the same root problem- women and children are property to be used as they see fit.

    It’s no different than slavery.

    I always thought that was illegal in America until my arrival in Mohave County. Then I understood the truth, which is that in some places here, ‘some pigs are more equal than others’.

    It’s just women and children after all.

  500. Please continue on Open Discussion #33

    Thank you! This months main topic: Abram Jeffs trial and Warrens prison journeys.

  501. S,

    I’ve had multiple computer melt downs and it has been misplaced somewhere in that process. It just hasn’t been enough of a priority for me to rediscover how to do that, yet.

    Betty

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