Open Discussion #28

Continued from Open Discussion #27

Trial for Merril “Leroy” Jessop gets underway in San Angelo, TX, and no plea expected this time.

Warren Jeffs had an arrogant smirk on his face for his mug shot  before his conviction too.  Perhaps they think its fun and games until they land in the Cellosteel Kingdom.

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on March 8, 2010.

588 Responses to “Open Discussion #28”

  1. guess we’ll see if the defense has moved from “answer them nothing” to “baffle them with bs”.

    250 prospective jurors were called for the case. they were to be at the courthouse at 9:00 this morning.

  2. would like to be a fly on wall in that courtroom

  3. Maybe the FLDS will try the trick they pulled on the Utah Supreme Court and wheel in some Holy Cow.

  4. seems the Defendant is trying to make an impression,, San angelo news says this about Merril leroy.

    Wearing a blue jacket, tan pants and boots and an American flag tie, he blended in with the crowd

  5. Wearing a blue jacket, tan pants and boots and an American flag tie, he blended in with the crowd

    ………………………………

    Right – the FLDS are SO patriotic.

  6. I think wearing a flag tie is gonna backfire on him bigtime. What a dumbcrack.

  7. i do not think that any of the flds has ever been in the armed forces, national guard, etc. of this country. i do not think he deserves a flag in his lapel.

    ADMIN EDIT – User banned for hijacking handle

  8. i do not think that any of the flds has ever been in the armed forces, national guard, etc. of this country. i do not think he deserves a flag in his lapel.

    Actually a number of them have been members of the armed forces. Remember that thing they had in the past called the draft?

    I’d imagine that since the draft ended the number of FLDS in the military has dropped to just about zero.

  9. Onthestreet was in ‘nam. drafted, likely.

  10. Fake “betty” warning! If it doesn’t have the silly photo, it’s not me.

  11. Apologies to all my conservative hawkish friends but it was so appropriate to the situation, I had to do it.

  12. That “fake betty” user was banned for attempting to hijack your identity. Thanks for the heads up!

  13. I am well aware that there were many FLDS veterans during the draft, including WWII, Korea and Nam. I would bet a steak dinner that under Warren, joining the volunteer military would be considered to be going apostate.

  14. “the wicked shall kill the wicked” in the great judgements.

  15. And the wicked Prophet shall be paranoid and boot 200 wicked members and reassign their big families willie nillie…

  16. Michael Emack is a veteran but his service to his country doesn’t give him a right to sexually assault a teenage girl and marry her as a plural wife in a YFZ Raunch ‘hocus-pocus’ ceremony. I am a veteran and can assure everyone that good citizenry rests upon abiding in the Law & Order of America. Fanatical believers and following the unfounded teachings of a felony convicted ‘Seer and Revelator’ is fraught with the disasters we are witnessing.

    True Patriots uphold the law and defend the U.S, Constitution and not work to undermine it, that’s a criminal mindset to circumvent Justice and usurp authority outside of the law. Benedict Arnold fought for America and became a traitor, a rarer circumstance but not unheard of act.

  17. I doubt Merril Leroy Jessop is connected with military. He is to young or old depending on wars. Im certainly sure the Flds of today don’t volunteer themselves to military.

  18. McVeigh was a veteran.

  19. True, but McVeigh wasn’t a now member of Flds.

  20. McVeigh had ties to white supremacists. His was the fastest execution I can recall.

  21. Anon at 12:06, that is an invalid translation. Using the words “the wicked” for the subject conveys the idea that is talking about people, but in fact, the translation is more like “calamity” or “evil”; i.e. some non human force like the weather or illness. So a more correct translation is that “evil will slay the wicked and the foes of the righteous will be punished”.

  22. My point about McViegh is that being a veteran does not guarantee that you will not break the law, nor that you will be spared the punishment that goes along with breaking the law. And, yes, he was connected with a white supremacy group; while working at gun shows he sold copies of the Turner Diaries.

  23. what I meant was it was a Physcological thing for the defense to put an american flag tie on Merrl Leroy. Most texans are very partriotic, and believe it or not, some will look at that as a plus.
    They do just what they accuse Bruce Wisan of doing.

  24. betty, that may be so, but that’s not what Warren taught. the quote is from him.

  25. Well, the original is from psalms 34:21.

  26. DD1, I agree, it’s a cheap trick and I hope the jury members are bright enough to see through it. It’s also a way of saying “I’m an American citizen and curtailing my right to rape tweeners is a violation of my religious freedom!”

  27. he was using it to say why the FLDS should not join the armed forces. the people were also instructed not to fight forest/brush fires some years back because said fires are part of the judgements.

  28. jury selection has broken for lunch until 1:30.

  29. Wow, thanks, Anon @12:58. Interesting. Just let people, homes and livestock burn, huh?

  30. i thought that too betty. nice guy!!! NOT

  31. Getting back to the Scientology link for a sec…sooo many comparable points! Very interesting article! It seems as though all of these secretive “religious sects” follow the same handbook. When you line them up side by side, they are all run by guys who think they are gods…and everyone else suffers in their wake, in the name of religion.
    As for “answer them nothing” to “baffle them with bs”. I wonder if the attorney will pull a Richrd Gere [Chicago] and try to ‘razzle-dazzle’ them with fancy foot work?

  32. Yes, MC, it’s all part of a very old, very well researched book on oppression and control.

  33. Don Richter of Lies will prevail wrote this drivel:
    “The beautiful, well-behaved and well-adjusted children of the YFZ community were not produced by parents who practice or condone child abuse in any form.”
    I think deadbeat dad merril is abusing his children by not paying the court ordered child support. Don and other flds supporters seem to think this is OK. I think merril has all the morals of a hyena. Dirty scumbag.

  34. Water company news:

    http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-attorney-general-investigates-water-company,0,6138004.story

  35. WwwwHOOOOooooooooooo – EEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    “HILDALE – The Utah Attorney General’s Office confirms it has opened an investigation into allegations of misuse of funds surrounding a company that owns the water rights in the polygamous border towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Ariz.

    “It appears that there’s been a gross misappropriation of funds,” said Bruce Wisan, the court-appointed accountant overseeing the United Effort Plan (UEP) Trust, which controls homes and property in the communities.”

  36. “GROSS” being the operative word.

    Why are those FLDS clowns immune from the laws the rest of us United States Citizens are subject too?

    Their little communist experiment failed.

    REBOOT.

  37. I’ve heard of private water companies…but I’ve never heard of one being registered as a non-profit company before. Is this odd?

  38. Didnt Willie get his finger in that pie too? I give Shurtleff two points for taking the law and order road finally.

    Keep it up MARK!

  39. I need a bunch of those FLDS holy cowflops for my raised bed veggie garden.

  40. Up through the draft years they’d take young men without a high school education, and some with juvenile or criminal records. When it became an all volunteer military more was expected of them. GED at least and then there’s the ASVAB.

  41. Cash flow, literally.

  42. hey flds101, if you’re out there can you give us the 411 on leroy please.

  43. A document submitted by Texas officials in subsequent hearings shows that the young woman was born in 1990, which made her 18 at the time of the interview. That document says she conceived a child when she was 16 and gave birth at age 17.
    ==============================================
    Here is a bit of interesting news. Part of the second search warrant was based upon this woman giving her age of 18. Guess what? She was 18.

  44. Nope, she was 17.

    Here is an uninteresting bit of non-news: Brooke Adams can’t get her facts straight.

    Geez, it’s not that hard. The victim was even featured in post-raid photo ops, with her age listed: still 17!

  45. She was 17 only by two weeks in fact. March 24, 1991 is her true birth date and she had just turned 17, with a babe in arms and one on the way. The document above mentioned is based on her interview in which she lied about her birth date. That’s why we’re having this court case, Alinusara! Two babies born before she turned 18! Read the bad acts; she lied on instructions from her “husband”.

    Didn’t this poor girl go through more than one “husband” before she turned 18?

  46. Where is this thing from Brooke? We need to contact her to get her facts straight. I don’t want to spend the next year correcting this carp.

  47. Betty, Alin is quoting verbatim from Brooke’s blog (see the second-last paragraph) right here:
    http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/2010/03/and-the-answer-is/

    Feel free to contact someone about it but I don’t think I’m going to bother. It’s starting to feel a bit like trying to push back the sea.

  48. OK, anybody know a source for her real age that I can send Brooke? I’ve emailed her before and as long as you are basically respectful, then she is pretty reasonable.

  49. In the bad acts document, you have this:
    “On or about April 4, 2008, while law enforcement officers were conducting operations at the YFZ ranch, the Defendant did encourage the victim, L. Jeffs, to falsify information concerning her age to a state agency worker who was conducting an interview with the victim.”

    It is the result of that interview, with the incorrect age listed, to which Brooke is referring, not her actual age. She gave her age as March 24, 1990, when in fact she was born on that date in 1991. That means she conceived a child at 15, gave birth at 16, conceived AGAIN at 16 and was 17 by two weeks during the raid.

  50. Alinusara,
    Get your facts straight, my pseudo Baptist friend.

  51. Unfortunately, CW, Brooke is the one who needs to get it straight, since her errors have more weight.

  52. If I’m wrong then Brooke Adams is wrong. Feel free to correct her.

  53. Yes, she is. And yes, I have already. Still really like another source to send her, but there is proof the document she is using was based on a lie in the “bad acts” document. I’m guessing the victim’s real birth date is in the indictment right up near the top.

  54. The proof is in the bad acts, the lie was in the interview the document was based on, sorry if that was unclear.

  55. Betty,
    I think you should post the facts regarding this matter on her blog.
    Alinusara, my pseudo Baptist friend, stop cheering for elderly men with hebephilia.

  56. No U&I alin; she said she was 18 at the prompting of her husband. That did not mean she was in fact 18. Get informed or bug out.

  57. Umm ale wife this seems pretty crystal clear..

    “A document submitted by Texas officials in subsequent hearings shows that the young woman was born in 1990, which made her 18 at the time of the interview.”

    You do read don’t you?

  58. Betty, I don’t see birth dates listed on the indictments. You could try directly her to page nine this document:
    http://thehopeorg.org/YFZ_chart_of_mothers_and_children.pdf

  59. Or you know, tell her to have a look at the photo shoot in the New York Times (July 27, 2008).

  60. By the way, Al, feel free to peruse any of the sources I linked or mentioned just now, you eager scholar you.

  61. Thanks, ellie. I have sent those to her. We’ll see if she issues a correction.

  62. A-li-n that was what certain “reporters” and “bloggers” are reporting not the actual documents submitted to the courts say.

  63. Umm, Alinusara, that document was based on her lying to the authorities about her age. You DID read the “bad acts”, right? Do you really think that the prosecutors for the state of Texas would make that claim without the documents to prove it?

    Why would she be 18 when talking to CPS in April, but 17 when CPS placed her as a minor in her mother’s home, off the ranch, a few weeks later and also 17 at the time the NY Times shoot was done in July? Magic? Or lying for the priesthood?

  64. When the CPS interveiwer said she looked like she was 16, the interviewer was dead on – she had only turned 17 a few weeks before that date.

  65. CW, I have. Now we wait and see what she does with it.

  66. Thanks Betty.
    Alin,
    You have admitted that pregnancy in skeletally immature females is not advisable, yet you continue to act as a cheerleader for those who impregnate teenage girls.
    There is a significant amount of cognitive dissonance there, my friend.

  67. Looks like Leroy’s mug got added to the thread, and I wonder if Judge Walther is gonna wipe that smirk off his face?

  68. And HELL NO AL didnt read the “Bad Acts”, he’d rather trip around looking like a jackass.

    Thanks for playing stupid, Al, your team sucks!

  69. Thank you for playing, alin.

  70. Al

    “If I’m wrong then Brooke Adams is wrong. Feel free to correct her.”

    She has been corrected. But things move rather slowly in the halls of the SLtrib at times.

    Unless of course, she has Willie the Thug on the line, then she hops right to it!

  71. Al if you didnt read the bad acts which address this, please take a minute, its only 2 pages and it should satisfy you that Brooke, once again, is talking out of her southern orifice.

    You should be careful who you hang out with these days other wise you might get Ambushed by the FACTS.

    https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2010/03/08/bad-acts-of-merril-leroy-jessop/

  72. U&I alin: Obviously you are quoting someone who said something about the document, not the original document. You are too lazy to look up the actual document and see what it says. That would also require you to get out of your wish to remain uninformed, and stupid.

  73. Legalwise – there are two ages that are relevant:

    1. Age at which she entered into a “spiritual marriage” which must have been under 16; and

    2. Age at which she had sex/conceived which would only need to be under 17.

    I believe that like others have said she lied about her birthdate by moving it one year; however, to the best of my knowledge Brooke is correct – the only available PUBLIC document puts her birthday in 1990. Does anyone have any actual proof that her birthdate is 91 and not 90?

  74. Well, in Brooke’s defense, it’s almost lunchtime in my world, but it’s still only 9:30 in hers.

  75. Why would B Adams’ SLT article claim the following, but not offer any correction?

    “A document submitted by Texas officials in subsequent hearings shows that the young woman was born in 1990, which made her 18 at the time of the interview. That document says she conceived a child when she was 16 and gave birth at age 17.”

    That’s both ignorance and arrogance on her part.

  76. Ron

    WHAT public document? Brooke offered no such thing. If Texas had a true and accurate birth certificate, its highly unlikely they would have listed his goading her to lie in his “bad acts”.

    If you have the “Public document” or proof of its existence somewhere, provide it please.

  77. Let’s do the math, assuming that the age of 17 listed in the NYTimes article of July 2008 is correct and that her birth day is March 24 as she stated. At that time, she had a one year old baby daughter in her arms and was pregnant, probably 5-6 months by the look of it. 17 minus one year has her giving birth at 16 years plus three months. That means she conceived her first child at about 15 and 6 months, and conceived her second child at about 16 and 9 months.

  78. But that does make a good tin foil hat theory –

    “Texas knew she was 18 but wanted to gettem so bad they went ahead anyway”…

  79. Ron,

    The document Brooke is referring to is the result of the first interview in which she lied. That lie is referred to in the ‘bad acts’.

  80. She’s neither a reporter nor journalist, whatever they pay her for.

    And that is by choice.

  81. Stamp

    She quotes the affidavit attached to the search warrant. I’m sure that same birthdate is also in the CPS documents. Those documents may just be repeating her lie but those are the public documents.

    I know you don’t like Brooke, but that doesn’t make her reporting inaccurate.

  82. Yes, Stamp, and apparently Texas LE is so dumb that they are going to ask for the ‘under 16’ special sentencing even though they have no proof whatsoever that she was under 16 when she conceived. Also, we have to maintain very carefully the idea that no one in the FLDS would ever lie, but everyone who works for CPS lies like a dog on a porch in July.

  83. Well, I would agree that the documents are just repeating the lie, and after what she did last week, you would think she would be gunshy about repeating lies.

    But hey, she has a job to do.

  84. Ron, her reporting isn’t inaccurate. It’s lazy and incomplete! If I can find out that L. Jeffs was really 17 at the time of the raid by googling, then Brooke can too! Geez, once again your desire to be “fair” is cutting off the circulation to your brain!

  85. I agree, Stamp, if there were any question about the victim’s age, I would make damn sure what it really was before I went to printing anything about it.

  86. The document Brooke is referring to is the result of the first interview in which she lied. That lie is referred to in the ‘bad acts’.

    Yeah, I get that but here’s another quote from Brooke:

    A document submitted by Texas officials in subsequent hearings shows that the young woman was born in 1990, which made her 18 at the time of the interview. That document says she conceived a child when she was 16 and gave birth at age 17.

    We’ll have to wait and see if that is what the evidence introduced at the trial shows.

    Again, the other documents are probably repeats of the same lie, but like it or not those are the facts and Brooke is accurately reporting them.

  87. Ron

    Just because Brooke likes to quote Willie doesnt “make her reporting accurate” either.

    I’m sorry, I havent seen much effort to straighten the record coming from the desks at the SLTRIB.

  88. At least she noted that they will have to “Wait and see at trial”… Although reading the “bad acts” ought to clue her in that the birthdates she was hanging on were false.

    What I see is confetti thrown in the air to confuse the crowd, with little effort to correct the situation. This behavior a pretty big deal last week and they even printed an entire article to attempt to clear the air – but only after getting thoroughly flamed over it.

  89. Ron, her reporting isn’t inaccurate. It’s lazy and incomplete! If I can find out that L. Jeffs was really 17 at the time of the raid by googling, then Brooke can too! Geez, once again your desire to be “fair” is cutting off the circulation to your brain!

    Total and complete BS. Google? What does that prove? I asked the relevant question which is whether anyone has some public document that proves her birthdate is 1991 and not 1990.

    Point me to that document and then I might agree that Brooke’s reporting is “lazy and incomplete.” Right now the only problem I see is that CPS was likely “lazy and incomplete” by not actually verifying her birthdate and repeating whatever lie she was telling.

    The only one who apparently has flawed perceptions her is you Betty. Apparently your disgust with Brooke is making you blind. Are you seeing red yet?

  90. And ya gotta realize she is playing to a fairly uneducated crowd, compared to say “US” who pay attention. So its aggravating when she takes these little side trails and confuses the general public.

  91. Ron

    Evidently “TEXAS” has something, otherwise they wouldnt have noted “Lies” in the bad acts. I reckon if the FLDS had an authentic Birth Certificate showing her Bday in 1990, the FLDS would be crowing about it long ago.

    So, yeah, it’ll come out at trial – I betcha like it always does there.

    GUILTY

  92. Ron, I’m not seeing red. I’m frustrated with you cause I think you are being stubborn, but I don’t think my blood pressure is going up. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with my perception. I cam connect the dots without having to have a legal form to look at.

    Googling other news articles should at least raise some concern. Also, if Brooke were really following the trial through other news media, she would know that they are going for the under 16 thing. Simple math and a few minutes of thought would tell you there is something wrong with the idea that she was 18 on April, 2008. It is clearly stated in the NY Times article that L. Jeffs was placed in that home with her mother by CPS, which would indicate that she is under 18 in July 2008. Also, apparently L. Jeffs and her family told the NY Times photographer and author that she was 17. That’s not BS to me, that’s fairly creditable. Yes, I agree CPS should not have put together a report without validating a birth certificate, but it looks like they fixed that, since they placed her under her mother’s care.

  93. I’m frustrated with you cause I think you are being stubborn

    Well, I can be for sure…

    It just seems to me that every time the name “Brooke Adams” gets mentioned around these parts that the torches and pitch forks come out.

    I’m not saying there aren’t fair criticisms of Brooke Adams, just that I don’t think this is one.

  94. When the proof comes out that she was 17 and two weeks in April of 2008, I want an apology for the accusation that there is something wrong with my perception.

  95. You are entitled to your opinions. I have no torches, but I do use a pitch fork to turn the compost pile.

  96. LOL

    Yeeeaahh, I smelled holy cow droppings over there. Brooke spent all that time and claimed there were “public documents”, didnt publish them, and ignored all the other signs.

    She cant see the forest for the trees. And “Man in the sky” forbid, she get hate mail from FLDS buddies.

    BTW just saw “The invention of Lying” and couldnt help but think it was about Warrens life.

    But on the other hand, I dont “hate” Brooke, I am aggravated by her at times though and so I just want to be fair and make her aggravated at me too. And from what Trent tells me, I’ve succeeded some.

  97. Ron,
    A question for you –
    are there systems issues in the FLDS medical community with regard to accurate and timely compliance with completion of birth certificate documents ?

  98. CW

    If the FLDS had LJ’s Birth Certificate showing 1990 you I texas twist betty and ron know that Brooke would post it on her blog.

    Heck it would peobably be posted here too, if found authentic.

    Which brings up another bit of evidence. Part of this trial, as the others, will be to attack the lab who performed the DNA tests.

    Well, if they had seperate DNA tests run that showed anything different, they would be hoopin and a hollerin over it.

    Their silence tells the story though.

  99. why is there an issue with finding a valid birth certificate in the first place?
    if the providers who assisted at delivery are not completing and submitting the birth certificates, the medical board should take action against those providers.

  100. Good question, CW. I would think that the mother’s DOB would be on the birth certificate of her children.

  101. Really. I don’t know if they allow it here now that I’ve moved to a city and have HoA and all that carp but I could sure use a load of that FLDS BS to fix up my little back yard. This one little ol dawg can’t do it all.

  102. CW

    Are you teasing? Why of course they should – but hey, look at what we have here, no medical examiner to check on mysterious deaths, half of them dont have proper paperwork, remember they have lived mostly “off the grid” for so long the local law hasnt figured out to do with them.

  103. The State Medical Boards need to take action against those providers who do not comply with regulations which require them to complete birth certificates.

  104. CW

    There is a whole lot they need to do out there. Like, I would say mandatory prenatal care and records by a true physician.

    Once they have slipped down the slope of systemic birth defects and child molestation, the government at some point has to pay attention.

    Currently, the medical clinic, funded by the state, is behind a locked gate.

    Yes this is in America.

  105. Or death certificates.

  106. I believe that like others have said she lied about her birthdate by moving it one year; however, to the best of my knowledge Brooke is correct – the only available PUBLIC document puts her birthday in 1990. Does anyone have any actual proof that her birthdate is 91 and not 90?
    ——–
    I assume this is a public document since it was so easy to find:
    http://web.sccn2.net/FLDS/FLDS-Court/ConservatorshipInSuit.pdf

    It lists the birthday as ’91.

    I’m looking forward to finding out what document Brooke is referencing that lists it as ’90 (making her 18 at the time of the interview). If document was submitted by Texas officials in “subsequent hearings”, that means Texas had time to fact-check but somehow still had the date wrong. It’s very puzzling.

  107. LMAO!!!!!! Fat Willie files a motion for mistrial in the Merril Leroy Jessop case because fatso willie had to sit out in the hall like everyone else during jury selection. Tell the tub of lard to lose a few hundred pounds and they might be able to squeeze him into the corner of the court room.

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/mar/09/access-to-court-triggers-flds-motion-for/

  108. That motion will be denied counsel – move along…

  109. I assume this is a public document since it was so easy to find:
    http://web.sccn2.net/FLDS/FLDS-Court/ConservatorshipInSuit.pdf

    It lists the birthday as ‘91.

    I’m looking forward to finding out what document Brooke is referencing that lists it as ‘90 (making her 18 at the time of the interview). If document was submitted by Texas officials in “subsequent hearings”, that means Texas had time to fact-check but somehow still had the date wrong. It’s very puzzling.

    There you go – one document in support of “lazy and incomplete.”

    Actually, it’s not puzzling that they may have switched back to the 1990 date. Unless whoever prepared the “subsequent document” knew there was an issue with the birth date they likely picked a date out of the file without realizing it was a lie.

    I wonder if this girl has an actual birth certificate or not.

  110. they found a bunch of signed blank Utah birth certificates in the raid, so they were obviously manufacturing their own birth certificates. Not sure if she has one that was actually on file in the Utah entity that keeps such records.

    Anyway, if LeAnn was really 18 when she got pregnant and had her first child, don’t you think the defense would have already said so and gotten the case dismissed. It would have been brought up in the pretrial or on summary judgment or something. I don’t see the FLDS wasting money on LeRoy’s trial if something as simple as a birth certificate could get him off.

  111. Hey Ron, do ya remember the dictations where Warren spend 30,000 on fake id’s, only to have his priesthood buddy steal most of the money!?

    LMAO

    He gets noted for being a criminal and again for being a dumb ass.

  112. Maybe the FLDS want to “answer them Nothing” until the closing arguments, during which time the “REAL” birth certificate will be forged errr presented..!?

  113. Actually, it’s not puzzling that they may have switched back to the 1990 date. Unless whoever prepared the “subsequent document” knew there was an issue with the birth date they likely picked a date out of the file without realizing it was a lie.
    ——-
    I think there was awareness that the birth date was an issue from the get-go based on the “You’re 18” interview.

    But what’s also puzzling that I’ve seen documentation of the victim being 17 at the time of the raid in original documents and also in accounts from other news outlets.

    But I haven’t turned up any Texas documentation that lists the victim as 18 at the time of the raid. I’m puzzled about where Brooke could possibly have cherry-picked this document.

  114. the document referred to from the hope org was the attachment to the motion to sever the large child case into smaller cases by family. leann’s dob is listed under sally (her mother) and the list is alphabetical by the first name of the mother. leann herself is listed as a mother with her daughter sally.

  115. Isn’t she a child of Warren? None of his family was in the released to the public Bishop’s list. I would guess that documentation on his family was taken in the raid and not released. Since he documented what he ate for lunch and when he went to sleep and woke up, I bet he also documented the heck out of his own family.

  116. I have now sent her three messages with information from you folks.

  117. I think there was awareness that the birth date was an issue from the get-go based on the “You’re 18″ interview.

    Nah, or at least I doubt it. CPS had 439 kids so I doubt that this one would have registered to any higher degree to the workers preparing things like the family service plans. There is all sorts of inaccurate information that work their way into those things.

    Obviously she registered to folks like law enforcement but I highly doubt she was any different than any other kid to the CPS workers.

    I honestly don’t doubt that Brooke has the document she claims to be quoting from.

  118. Since he documented what he ate for lunch and when he went to sleep and woke up, I bet he also documented the heck out of his own family.

    Yeah, I’m actually surprised that there is not a dictation that says:

    “And the Lord said to me that you shall wipe thine backside up and not down.”

    God says some funny things to old Warren for sure.

  119. no she’s the daughter of leroy and sally. leroy is warren’s brother who was kicked out. sally was reassigned to wendell neilsen who was the priesthood head who gave her in marriage to leroy jessop. sure is confusing with all the leroy’s.

  120. Folks,
    You cannot have medical professionals fabricating birth certificates, or failing to fill them out.
    Those providers who are engaging in this type of practice need to have their licenses removed.
    Attention all those who claim that Elissa Wall’s medical records were all produced in one day to reflect multiple visits :
    You are going to be quite embarrassed when you realize that there is lab data entered into her chart on different dates, and that data was produced via computerized equipment. The lab computer retains the blood work and urinanalysis results, associated with patient identifiers. Not only that, when the placenta was delivered after Elissa’s miscarriage, it was sent to the pathology lab for inspection and microscopic sections. So there is a blood work, lab and paper trail, and you are in for a surprise.

  121. CW, You know the kind of dreams where you start out at Walgreen’s and end up in northern Ireland beading emerald collars for Queen Elizabeth’s Corgis, but only after fighting off an entire army of huge Dremels? Everyday, Willie seems more like a character from one of those dreams.

  122. You cannot have medical professionals fabricating birth certificates, or failing to fill them out.
    Those providers who are engaging in this type of practice need to have their licenses removed.

    Well, much worse crap that that happens and rarely do you have professionals getting their licenses removed. Look at Lloyd Barlow – he still has his license. If the Board of Medical Examiners had any balls they’d have already taken away his license.

    Besides, if Barlow knows they won’t take away his license for failure to report child abuse what makes you think he’s going to be afraid of fudging some documents?

  123. I meant to add, and Brooke, too. Half of this stuff just doesn’t make any sense.

  124. Ron,
    I believe that any decision making regarding licensure would be deferred until his trial was over.

  125. Ron, could the reason the Texas Board of Medical Examiners be waiting to punch his ticket be the trial? What if the pulled his license then he was found innocent? Would they be liable?

  126. Ron

    “I honestly don’t doubt that Brooke has the document she claims to be quoting from.”

    I’m honestly surprised she quotes from them with out posting them. We know she posts anything at all Pic emails her.

  127. I believe that any decision making regarding licensure would be deferred until his trial was over.

    Well, I believe they’re deferring it, but there’s no reason they should. They’ve got investigators. Those folks could have contacted law enforcement who would have given them all the relevant facts.

    In my opinion, they’re simply toothless (actually I’d prefer to refer to another part of their anatomy) bureaucrats.

    Most people comply with rules because they feel it’s the right and proper thing to do. There are many times folks break those rules (often repeatedly) and suffer no consequences.

    Besides, we’re talking about FLDS related professionals. Answer them nothing. Remember?

  128. Ron

    Did you read the “Bad acts”? Its posted and it says Jessop told LJ to lie.

    GEE that would be embarrassing if not true.

    Hurley has Hurdles.

    https://texasflds.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/leroy-jessop-bad-acts.pdf

  129. I’m honestly surprised she quotes from them with out posting them.

    Oh come on now Stamp. Damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t. Those are the records of a “victim.” Remember?

    You fault her for not posting them, but someone would jump all over her case if she did.

    It’s how I often feel posting here. I bring a message you guys don’t like and “kaboom!” Someone takes out their virtual pistol and proceeds to shoot the messenger.

  130. that was my thought too miele. i know the case is still pending in whatever court it was transfered to.

  131. Ron,
    I agree with you – they are deferring till trial, but there is no reason to do so… unless they are afraid of the doctor’s attorneys…

  132. Right Proud. If the TBME pulled his license, I’m sure some defense attorney would claim he’d already been found guilty.

    Like Charles Manson and the Nixon headline.

  133. Do you have any idea why his case was transferred, PT?

  134. Ron,

    She could redact the name. The “Public record” she claims is perhaps not any more of an authority than one of her news articles, to use an example.

    I think if she is going to be floating dates as facts she ought to back them up – At least at this site every attempt is made to do so.

    If she cant or wont publish the document, why talk about them?

    Why say that Texas says she was 18 but not that Texas also says she was 17?

    That seems like a good way to start rumors amongst the casual and confused.

    After her going from “Elissa gave false testimony” to “OOOPS Wally Bugden, Warrens Attorney, tried to paint her as a drugged floosey” you would think she would have learned a lesson.

    Apparently not.

  135. Something about the charges belonging in county court and not district court. maybe its a misdemeanor and not a felony.

  136. Oh, Ron, she also didnt hold back when she posted all that “New Twist in Elissa case” BS.

    She splashed all that not only as an article but a huge blog post complete with the filings. So the “Victim record” excuse doesnt hold much water.

  137. Something about the charges belonging in county court and not district court. maybe its a misdemeanor and not a felony.

    That’s correct – the charges against Dr. Barlow are misdemeanors therefore they are in county court.

  138. Nah, or at least I doubt it. CPS had 439 kids so I doubt that this one would have registered to any higher degree to the workers preparing things like the family service plans. There is all sorts of inaccurate information that work their way into those things.

    Obviously she registered to folks like law enforcement but I highly doubt she was any different than any other kid to the CPS workers.

    I honestly don’t doubt that Brooke has the document she claims to be quoting from.
    ——-
    While CPS might have a broader focus than LE, I think underage motherhood (and possible child molestation) would be of great interest to CPS workers preparing family service plans.

    As for Brooke, I’m very interested to learn about the source document for her information. I’m equally interested, if not more so, to learn about how she managed to evade a gaunlet of other information about the victim’s age in order to publish what you believe to be a clerical error.

  139. Thanks to both of you.

  140. Here is a copy of the “mistrial” motion filed because fat willie couldn’t fit his tub or lard ass into the courtroom.

    http://media.gosanangelo.com/media/static/Jessop_mistrial.pdf

  141. FYI

    Jessop’s motion for mistrial.

    I actually hope that Walther gives them a hearing. Let Willie get on the stand and force him to testify about how many times he was in the courtroom on the other cases.

    Willie has a way of trying to make BS look like gold.

  142. I agree, lets put him up there and have Nichols examine him and ask him about the roles he has played at other trials, and about his brother Dee, the guy who likes to intimidate FLDS children by slitting cows throats in front of them.

    There is a whole lot about Dee and Willie the court needs to explore.

    And last time? He said he just represented himself. But its all pretty absurd, Leroys attorney was there, there is no law that says you get to drag your posse or your thug with you everywhere. Maybe Willie should join them all in prison.

    Are they going to change the “Miranda Rights”? “You have the right to have Willie Jessop present with you to hold your hand”

  143. http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/mar/09/access-to-court-triggers-flds-motion-for/

  144. “At what point would it have been appropriate to enter again?” Willie Jessop shot at Nichols.

    Walther intervened, telling Willie Jessop — who she said may not be fully aware of the court’s procedures — that the witness is not allowed to ask questions.

    Walther denied the motion for a mistrial.

    Snipped from article above. LOL.

  145. Update – mistrial motion DENIED!

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/mar/09/access-to-court-triggers-flds-motion-for/

    Nichols, arguing against the motion, put Willie Jessop on the witness stand and made the case that Willie Jessop hadn’t made an attempt to enter after the general questioning of potential jurors.

    “At what point would it have been appropriate to enter again?” Willie Jessop shot at Nichols.

    Walther intervened, telling Willie Jessop — who she said may not be fully aware of the court’s procedures — that the witness is not allowed to ask questions.

    Walther denied the motion for a mistrial.

  146. That was fast. If this was in Utah they would think about it for 4 months!

  147. Willie’s a nobody, they just think he intimidates people.

    Perhaps thats because they use him to intimidate their own people sheeple, and they think regular citizens might give a flying leap who the frick he is just because he is overgrown and has UTARD tattooed on his forehead.

    Gotta tell em though, those plane tickets are expensive just to provide us with some old fashioned FLDS entertainment!

  148. Do I understand this exchange correctly, Willie the Ass the had GALL to say that the JUDGE “may not be fully aware of the court’s procedures … “?

    Say it isn’t so. I know some FLDS are effingstupid but are any that effinstupid?

  149. ohhh..my–what a joke ole’ slick is!!!

  150. Ole Willie the thug, LMAO at ya dude! Here’s a little song in your honor on the occasion you of losing you’re little motion:

    A little ditty in Willie’s honor:

  151. Judge Walther told Willie that he “may not be fully aware of the court’s procedures … “, when he blurted out a question while on the witness stand. No, Willie should know better but does that stop him!?

    NAAAH

    So he got put in his place – AGAIN!

  152. I wonder is the Hon. Judge Walther ever ponders if this crew arrived in a clown car?

    Didn’t Ms. Adams of blaugh fame address the Court directly from behind the bar?

  153. Excuse me. I wonder if.

  154. nothing will stop wee willie until he’s in his own cell-o-steel kingdom.

  155. the only reason wee willie’s even there is to make sure leroy doesn’t hop up on the stand and testify. where’s daddy merril? he could show up, he has for the others.

  156. Daddy Merril is hiding from AG cause someone is going to make him pay child support,, last place HE wants to be is Texas ,, in Judge Walthers courtroom 🙂

  157. Mexico is looking better every day. Passports in order?

  158. Willie needs some cheese to go along with his whine. They couldn’t process all 250 jurors at one time because the courtroom was too small.

    When that’s the case I don’t care if it’s your dear sweet 80 year old mother, she’s not getting in.

    Your whinny obese cousin? Forget about it.

  159. GEE

    I wanted Brooke to vet Willie out as a fool.

    Shucks, not this time?

    wink wink wink

  160. ********** crickets at the plig blog *********

    chirp

    chirp

    chirp

  161. Nary a Twitter. Only pontificating if there might “BY SOME CHANCE PUHLEASE!” be a mistrail caused by misbehaving jurists.

    GEE Brooke, they arent even seated yet and you float that little hope?

    And some people wonder why we wonder.

    wink wink

    Ok, I think I got my point across.

  162. ********** crickets at the plig blog *********

    chirp

    chirp

    chirp

    Damn you Stamp!!! Now you made me check Huge McEgo’s blog.

    He’s so damn wrong that it pains me not to make some comment to correct him.

    It’s so simple that I guess it eludes the PPSG.

    Trying to process 250 jurors in a room that doesn’t hold that many? Few if any outsiders are going to be admitted. She let some law clerks and media in as a courtesy in the afternoon, but no general members of the public were allowed until after the jurors had been reduced in number.

    What’s the price of Alco today? My portfolio must be going up soon.

  163. he he he

    evil Stamp!

    Oh, those cartoon pages over there in ygyny land are funny!

    I wonder when they are going to have him join Willie in court and have the attorneys take running advice from him. He’s always got the answers, yet for some reason the state always gets convictions.

  164. I need to stop checking Huge McEgo’s blog. Not only is he wrong almost all of the time, but despite that his narcissism makes him think he actually *knows* something.

    Pile on top of that he won’t post comments where you prove him wrong and it’s pretty much an exercise in beating your head against the wall.

    I’ll leave him to I_hate_bigots and his other sycophants.

  165. Yeah, and isnt it funny, he only has “nobodies” that he talks to.

    At least you use a first name, something none of his fan club does.

    But at least he’s got someone to talk to and sooth his inner whatchamacallit.

  166. Bill isnt much better, wow is he blogging drunk? Is there like an open bar over there?

  167. Stamp

    The big difference is Bill doesn’t pretend to be some refined neutral pontificator.

    Bill is highly partisan, pretty crude and firmly anti-authoritarian.

    Hugh pretends to be somebody that actually knows something and is somewhat impartial despite being (yes Hugh – read this!!) a no nothing blow hard wack job.

    Besides I actually respect Bill’s anti-CPS stance. I’ve seen some really bad crap happen in the CPS system. The idea of protecting kids in danger is one thing, the idea of making everything come up roses with the foster care system is another.

  168. As long as FLDS are providing entertainment for today, a Tuesday, I have pondered what becomes of farts under those long dresses. I mean, nobody could run fast enough to get away from ’em. Do they travel up the necklines or out those sleeves?

  169. Maybe that’s why all the wallyworld tennierunners?

  170. Huesos

    OMG – you mean FLDS women actually fart? I thought they were too holy, pure and, well, sweet to actually fart.

    Give me some time to digest this and maybe I can give you an answer.

  171. Ron

    Gotta agree with most all that – but I think Bill is doing the “CPS improvement movement” more harm than good IMHO.

    He has too much errata and comes off like “Mad Max and a Bad Batch of Swill”.

    At least you put a little lead in their balloon basket keeping them from getting really really lost!

  172. Folks

    Riddle me this –

    The picture on this thread. I believe it’s when Leroy was arrested or at least questioned. (See the bars on the cell behind him?)

    Does that guy look like an unrepentant arrogant pr**k or what?

    Maybe it’s just me but I hope he gets a lot more than Keate.

  173. If Hugh can’t see just how dumb and egotistical Willie’s motion of a mistrial is, then there’s no hope. The idea that this is building a foundation for appeal is beyond laughable, it’s stunningly stupid.

  174. I think thats the booking mug shot, arrogant asshole indeed.

    About half the mugshots are like that, even one or two of Warrens.

    Yeah, they still dont get it. Maybe a long sentence will sober them up – I think Warren has gone catatonic, so its finally set in for him.

  175. Ron,
    Just now you are realizing Huge Ego is a histrionic narcissist who cannot listen to reason ?
    Your efforts to impart some awareness of objective reality or legal principles at his blog are laudable, but are a waste of your valuable time.
    His entire self concept is based on a belief that he is the greatest protagonist in the polygyny debate. That is why he cannot get along with the other leaders in the movement – they are a threat to his fragile ego structure.
    Any attempt to get him to acknowledge the fact that polygyny is not the great panacea for all of the ills of Western society (or the Christian religion) will be met by denial, because it threatens the sole basis of his self concept. He has no other significant accomplishments in his life to hang his hat on.
    Huge Ego is at his core a misogynist. His belief in
    polygyny and his advocacy for the marriage of underage girls are simply manifestations of his hostility towards women, and his desire to subjugate women.
    Take any statement he makes about women in his blog, and substitute the name of another minority group and you will quickly be able to see what a BIGOT and HATER he really is.
    Why bother with him at all?

  176. Someone needs to tell those folk they’re not in Utah any more.

    Judge Walther is patient, I think she’s been trying to do that.

  177. Stamp

    You know, it’s kinda funny – I’ve always had this sense that Keate is caught in a serious case of WTF.

    I could be wrong – but just something about his demeanor makes me think that.

  178. Anon @8:50

    I don’t know that I ever thought I could talk sense into Hugh. In a way watching his “human trainwreck persona” is curious in a strange sort of way.

    The guy seriously laments how is life is a mess but somehow fails to connect the dots.

    For me what gets highly tiresome is his rampant narcissism. The guy actually thinks he knows something. For gosh sakes, you’re a friggin finance turd at a car dealership. His last post with such ignorant stupid drivel and then saying “your Modern Pharisee told you it was done, when it was done,” just about made me want to barf.

    Although, I must admit a part of me just loves human train wrecks. 🙂

  179. Hugh blames his own misfortunes on others, instead of taking responsibilites for his own actions or faults. Its always easier to blame someone else,,, and he does a daily job of it… He could easily join Flds and fit right in!

  180. Hugh blames his own misfortunes on others, instead of taking responsibilites for his own actions or faults.

    DD – I suppose that’s maybe that’s why I can relate to old Hugh. My first wife was that way.

    BTW – Did you know that I’m the anti-Christ? Talk to my ex and she’ll tell you. Everything was my fault. I am truly the nexus of evil.

  181. Ron, yes that is Leroy’s mug shot taken in the Schleicher County Jail, I presume.

    I agree with you that he looks really smug with an FU attitude in that photo.

    Maybe if he had been wearing his USA stars and stripes tie he would have looked more contrite.

    He better not reek of that smug attitude in court. I doubt the jurors in San Angelo will be amused with it.

  182. “BTW – Did you know that I’m the anti-Christ? Talk to my ex and she’ll tell you. Everything was my fault. I am truly the nexus of evil.”

    Really?!? I’m impressed. I could never multitask to that degree. A lawyer AND the nexus of evil.

    😀

  183. Hey, it’s not much of a stretch to imagine a lawyer as the anti-Christ. (Sorry, Ron. Couldn’t resist making the easy lawyer joke. 🙂

  184. Two public documents that give a dob of 3-24-1991:

    http://iperceive.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/2902-330-children-order-for-severance-7-24-08.pdf

    http://www.childbrides.org/YFZ_OriginalPetitionForProtectionOfChildren_4-6-2008.pdf

  185. “…the only available PUBLIC document puts her birthday in 1990.”

    Wrong.

  186. The victim in Leroy Jessop’s charge has a sister who was born on 10-9-1989.

    Do the math.

  187. And once again, Mama Sally on Larry King Live:

    SALLY, SPEAKING FROM INSIDE YFZ RANCH: I have nine that they have taken, ages 5 to 17.

    http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0804/16/lkl.01.html

    The sibling just younger than the victim in this case was born on 6-6-1992 and was 15 when her mother appeared on Larry King Live.

  188. The victim’s sister who was 18 in April 2008 (and they ain’t twins):

    “I gave ’em my name. I gave ’em my age,” [Pamela Jeffs aka Nielsen] Jessop said. “I was honest. Showed ’em my birth certificate and they acknowledged it, that I was 18.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/05/22/flds.mother/

    And yes, it would be a reasonable assumption that a birth certificate also exists for the victim.

    Shoot the messenger, indeed.

    “You are 18” wasn’t 18.

  189. And yeah, the word is lazy.

  190. Guess the SLTrib didnt want to look past Willies emails.

    Wonder what he told Brooke about getting his ass handed to him by Judge Walther?

    IRT to the “Histrionic Narcissist”, it appears that indeed these disorders can be combined:

    “Comorbidity:

    Somatization Disorder, Conversion Disorder, Major Depressive Disorder and other Personality Disorders (especially Borderline, Narcissistic, Antisocial, and Dependent) frequently co-occur with this disorder. ”

    Its not real often that someone offers up such a fruitful display of symptoms, its been fascinating to watch. Its like a running lab experiment.

  191. Stamp

    You’re like me – Hugh is interesting to watch – annoying – yet in a twisted way interesting.

  192. “…the only available PUBLIC document puts her birthday in 1990.”

    Wrong.
    —–
    I’m still looking to find ANY public document that lists the birthday as 1990.

    I suspect Brooke’s “source” is the original interview where the victim is prompted to say she is 18. It wouldn’t be the first time she reported pro-FLDS hearsay as fact, after all. Remember the “forged medical records”?

  193. I don’t know who Anon @8:50 last night is, but I agree completely.

  194. How many “Personality disorders” can any one person collect?

    Maybe quite a few!

    “AntiSocial Personality Disorder”

    —————————————-

    “Diagnostic Criteria:

    Three or more of the following are required:

    Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest

    Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases,
    or conning others for personal profit or pleasure

    Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead

    Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults

    Reckless disregard for safety of self or others

    Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations

    Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another”

    ———————————-

    http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis/p20-pe04.html

  195. Texas Twist, in the article about the older sister, who was 18 and about to give birth; it was her second baby. The first was a year old.

    Aren’t these both Warren Jeff’s own daughters?

  196. Ron

    It has been interesting, and I probably wouldnt have much to say to him if he wasnt so whacked out about his polygyny schtick and off the wall legal commentary, which I have seen you attempt to correct but hey he has his mind made up law or no law!

    Oh, and I’ve ran into some rather annoying people on the net, another blog completely unrelated to this issue is often infected by a couple guys with similar yet different problems.

    Most foks probably dont really know anyone in real life like that and wouldnt hang out with them if they did so the net is about the only way they can observe.

  197. Twist, excellent find on that doc on ipercieve!

    And the math, thats too funny – LJ’s birthday would be about 5 and a half months after her older sisters if she was born in 1990?!

    I know they breed like rabbits but they aint pulling that one out of a hat!

  198. Ron

    I liked your “How low can you go” post! Thats gonna stump them.

    Oh wait, didnt you study international law Cupcake asks?

    Judge Walther is guilty of violating the Geneva Convention, the UN may be calling anytime soon!

    I dont know if there is a personality disorder going on there,
    perhaps its just “Lack of one”…..

    That Clown Car held way more clowns than I would have imagined!

  199. You know Stamp – I really don’t get it. Like I said in that comment – even if you assume that they’re being picked on or discriminated against, it doesn’t change the fact that they’re factually guilty.

    Apparently there are a number of rather unusual folks (Like Huge McNut) who think that if your religion says you can have sex with 14 year old girls that’s just peachy.

    Intellectually, I understand Hugh. In his twisted mind, the Bible says that you can marry any girl past the age of menses. If you “Biblically” marry them, then you can have sex with them. In his mind any attempt by the government to say “no can do” is tyranny.

  200. And what I found astounding is that he still doesnt recognize his legal divorce from his first wife, but only considered her “divorced” when he found out she remarried. But he STILL doesnt recognize the legal civil paperwork telling him its over.

    I dont have a lot of patience for folks who make up their own little cartoon rules for their own little cartoon lives.

    It usually doesn’t produce a good ending.

  201. The bible NEVER once states the age of marriage. The word virgin in the biblical sense could be a woman in her 50’s, because she had never had sexual relations with a man. There is NO age or date of birth of Anyone in the bible. Since in the old testament according to what scripture says, People lived up to 900yrs old, Id say, someone 100yrs old who married for the first time and was a virgin, would be old enough to get married.

    Hugh McBryde can READ anything into Biblical format he wants, but to date, NO expert has ever known how old women were when they married or if they married.

  202. Mankind has long changed scripture to fit their own personal needs. If he doesn’t like what God is telling him, he searches and tries to figure out a loop hole, or just interprets it in his own mind. To some scripture is meaningful, and living each time you read it.. To others like Hugh McBryde they are just words on a written page, you can scratch through the ones you don’t like and rewrite.

  203. They leave out, (if they claim to be believers) that God destroyed Sodom and Ghomorra for exchanaging daughters and wives to men to be sexual slaves, and for being whoremongers, and abominable acts in God’s eyes.
    Christ warned us of the Pharisee’s and their decit.

  204. you can scratch through the ones you don’t like and rewrite

    Yes, and twisted minds can do some pretty weird rewrites.

  205. The angel of God told Abraham, if he could find 10 righteous men in Sodom and Ghomorra, he would not destroy it.. He couldn’t. So God told him, if he could find ONE man that was rigtheous he would not destroy it,,, but Abraham could not find one.

  206. and stamp, there was a sister born in between those two.

    and no they aren’t warren’s, they are his brother leroy’s.

  207. DD

    But he’s read it over 30 times! He didnt take kindly to my suggestion that he “didnt get it”…. But you hit on a good idea, I think that people who try to twist it to make it mean something else hijack themselves.

    Its a good thing he doesnt have a following. Just an odd duck quacking up a storm in a muddy pond.

  208. janet was born in 1988, pamela in 1989 and leann in 1991.

  209. OK

    Thats breeding like rabbits right there!

  210. Ron

    “you can scratch through the ones you don’t like and rewrite

    Yes, and twisted minds can do some pretty weird rewrites.”

    Is he using a Sharpie, or Crayons? Only his bible knows for sure!

  211. Ron this one’s for you:

    Heaven forbid Orrin Hatch get involved with Harry Reid’s efforts to address the RICO crimes of the FLDS and the abuses against women and children. They’re both in Washington DC after all working in the same US Capitol building – not too far to travel to Reid’s office.

    But noooooo, Orrin can’t waste his precious time protecting his constituents. There’s a new college football season coming up and THE BCS SYSTEM ISN’T FAIR.

    Senator Orrin Hatch launches new attacks on BCS

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700015210/Senator-Orrin-Hatch-launches-new-attacks-on-BCS.html

  212. I told him to step forward 5,000 years, the weathers fine.

    His response?

    “There is nothing NEW under the sun!”

    (uh, except the NEW Testament?)

  213. Maternal – fetal morbidity and mortality were much higher in the past when underaged girls became pregnant. This is well documented. It is a dangerous practice for any society to allow girls who have not achieved skeletal maturity to have children.
    I am very concerned about any group, religious or otherwise, which thinks that there is a religious “right” for underaged girls to marry and become pregnant.
    There is no “religious right” to compromise the health and welfare of young girls or their potential children, any more than there is a “religious right” to engage in human sacrifice or child abuse.

  214. Anon

    A red herring, OH rah rah, old BYU and pride in UTah, they have been dissed too long!

    Duh, one wonders why!

    Hatch will carry water for the LDS and BYU but ignores children all around him being abused.

    I guess he is above those distasteful things.

  215. Better to keep them out of sight and out of mind.

  216. jury has been seated in the leroy jessop trial.

  217. any information on the composition of the jury, in terms of gender, ethnicity, or age?

  218. Did they manage to seat a jury with or without His Williness?

  219. seven men, seven women, 3 have hispanic sir names

  220. Eww there is a mug shot of Warren grinning for glory up on this thread now.

    What is it with these dudes? Smiling all the way to hell? I think he quit grinnin’ when his head hit the brick wall and they put a rubber hose up his nose.

  221. i’m going to drop by the courthouse this afternoon and get a looksee at it. i’ll let you know if wee willie is in attendance, or merril or wendell. merril and wendell were both on the witness list as is leann and her 3 sister-wives.

  222. Anyone got Photoshop and some Photoshop skills? That photo of WSJ is ripe for a “before and after” retouch.

  223. PT

    We’ll expect a full report…

  224. Proud Texan,
    Je vous remercie.

  225. Mankind has long changed scripture to fit their own personal needs. If he doesn’t like what God is telling him, he searches and tries to figure out a loop hole, or just interprets it in his own mind.
    …………..

    And if that still doesn’t work, write your own scriptures and claim you found them on some golden plates which you dug up then buried again.

  226. One of the funniest promotions that was floated out of all this was “40 year old virgin J Lester” wish for bisexual wives.

    Apparently, he wanted the wives, just didnt know how to do business with them.

  227. merril and wendell were both on the witness list as is leann and her 3 sister-wives.
    …………………….

    Witnesses for the defense? Is this the first time in these trials that wives have testified?

    I suppose they are going to say everything is fine and dandy, but I wonder what how a jury is going to feel about having polygamy shoved in their faces.

  228. I wonder how they are gonna explain how exciting it is for 14-15 year olds when they are told they are getting married that coming weekend and their first job will be tending babies until they have some of their own, which should be really quick.

    And then they will still be tending babies but they will move up to doing dishes and prep cooking.

  229. Well, being conscious of your limitations is a sure sign of maturity. LOL.

  230. I’m guessing any girl growing up in a polygamist household has been caring for babies every since she ceased to be one herself.

  231. Those defense witnesses will never be called to the stand to be cross-questioned under oath. I doubt they’ve been deposed.

  232. Well I don’t know much about trials, but why would they be on a defense witness list if the defense has no intention of calling them?

    PS I just got my first Jury Summons! I know people complain about jury duty (usually because they have to sit around all day waiting) but I am looking forward to it. I even got a free bus pass downtown.

  233. I served on a jury, its been about ten years. The issue was a physical altercation that was prosecuted, it was rather minor and would have had bad ramifications on the guys, the “victims” testified and begged charges be dropped.

    The prosecution didnt give evidence that there was any other real danger or co-ercion other than a minor dust up so we voted not guilty.

  234. Well I don’t know much about trials, but why would they be on a defense witness list if the defense has no intention of calling them?

    CYA. You never know what might happen in a trial and you would list folks that might be rebuttal witnesses.

  235. “Aren’t these both Warren Jeff’s own daughters?”

    Betty, no, they are his nieces — both are daughters of Sally and LeRoy Jeffs (Warren’s older brother that he kicked out).

    Raymond’s victim was another one of their sisters.

    Odds are that the sister just younger than Leroy Jessop’s victim would have been a child bride at 15 too if Warren wasn’t gotten himself arrested when he did.

  236. Its good to know that incarcerating molesters puts a stop to their abuse.

    I’d like to think the entire group of them clues in, but I am not convinced and I dont think various LEA are either.

  237. Guys

    I’d like to enlist you as guinea pigs in an experiment. My feeling is that this site generates vastly more traffic the Huge McNuts site.

    What Huge McNut pins his fragile ego on are his “Alexa” ratings. Now I did some searching and the fundamental thing driving Alexa ratings are people surfing a site with the Alexa toolbar installed in their browsers.

    What I’d like everyone to to is on a temporary basis, say until April 1, just go ahead and install the Alexa toolbar in your browser. On April 1, we can check this site’s Alexa stats against Huge McNut and I’ll be his narcissistic ego will be in for a serious spanking.

    Here’s the download link for the toolbar

    We can check Alexa today versus April 1 and then everyone that doesn’t like toolbars can get rid of theirs.

    Cheers and here’s to science…

  238. What I have noted in the past is the amount of content and participation.

    There is simply no comparison.

    His threads usually have “Zero” to maybe a max of 19 posts, if he has a lot of traffic people are just there to look at the train wreck.

  239. OOOPS

    He derailed another boxcar!

  240. Stamp

    I suppose the downside to this is that you don’t want to surf Huge McNut’s site with the Alexa toolbar installed.

    So for the next few weeks no train wreck viewing for me.

  241. Hes like a Huge McPinata, every time you whack it more goodies fall out.

  242. Ron

    That toolbar wont work with my browser. At least thats what the website says.

  243. Ron,
    I will comply with your request by this evening. I suspect that the large number of hits on his site has to do with links he places on each post on his website. When you click on the links, and then later return to his site, the FEEDJIT counter registers another hit on his site. That is how he “arranges” to have a large number of hits…
    and yes, here’s to SCIENCE and objective data!!!

  244. Stamp

    At least you tried – I’m actually quite curious about this and can’t wait to see the data on April 1. Might be a nice April fools gift to the Huge McNut.

  245. Given the significant amount of denial he engages in, do you expect him to be able to acknowledge the facts regarding the popularity (or lack of same) of his blog?
    Probably not.

  246. Also, the site counter he uses is notorious for being inaccurate, because it self selects by sending web crawlers to its own sites. Told him that, sent him links about it, but it did not get through. Then there’s the whole theory as to whether site rankings matter. Google maintains that it is RELEVANCE that matters. In short, if you pick key words to describe your content and then put those key words into the top 5 search engines, where do you come up on the search responses. It’s not whether or not you get hits from people who don’t want your site; it’s whether or not people who are looking for that topic find you easily.

    Whatever. It’s a very childish thing to worry about.

  247. Ron, I think it will take more like a month than a day to get rankings.

  248. So, he kicks his brother out, reassigns his wives to someone faithful and then makes sure his under aged daughters get knocked up? Am I the only person who thinks that’s really, really ugly?

  249. Anon @12:21

    For me, it’s not a question of whether he acknowledges it or not. Right now Alexa says he’s more popular which I think is BS. I think with the number of visits this site gets it should be ranked much higher, so as they say in Star Trek – “make it so.”

  250. CW –

    Vous êtes les bienvenus

  251. Betty

    I’m open to folks keeping it on the browser as long as they want. The only reason I suggested a short run is that I’m no big fan of tool bars.

    But hey, that’s just me.

    I really want to see what happens to this site stats if we all start visiting with Alexa toolbars.

    And heck, maybe the admins can get site ads and donate any proceeds to charity. There’s lots of possibilities.

  252. merril, wendell, leann and the sister-wives are all on the prosecution witness list. odds are that merril and wendell might have gotten served a subpoena, but i’m doubting it for the women.

  253. Proud Texan,
    The correct response to “je vous remercie” is
    the French equivalent of you’re welcome, which is :
    1) Je vous en prie (I pray you)
    2) Rien de quoi (it was nothing)
    Passez une bonne apres midi

  254. Hmmm

    Pourquoi parlez-vous en français?

    Vous connaissez Google translate fonctionne très bien

  255. Je ne utilize pas Le Google traduction fonctionne.J’ai appris le francais chez moi.

  256. CW

    I envy you guys who can speak multiple languages. I can only speak English and I don’t often do well with that.

  257. My mother’s family is from Switzerland and we are multi – lingual.

  258. Whats interesting is he has had that site up, what 4 years, and this one has been up barely a year.

    If he was trying to get a following, thats failed…

    Selling goods? fail

    Getting his message out? fail

    Providing him a place from which to rant and rave publically like that guy on a street corner with those whacky signs?

    He’s doing that, but people are watching from across the street.

  259. My sister married a Belgian. They moved to France. I visited them many times. I can speak just enough French to order lunch and get on the right train and find out when I need to walk to the village to get the kids from school. That’s about it. I studied years and years of German and my French is better. Maybe now that I am learning Spanish, I will actually have the chance to practice.

  260. Is the number of hits on a site the total number of hits, or an annual summary?
    This website has only been around about a year.
    The other website in question has been in existence 3-4 yrs.
    Therefore, in terms of hits / yr., this website scores higher.

  261. i know words, but putting them altogether isn’t easy for me.

    i have a friend who moved to switzerland after she got married and her 2 children are multilingual

  262. Most of the world’s people are multi-lingual. I’m clueless why Americans are less likely.

  263. i’m getting rosetta stone this summer and i’m determined to learn to speak spanish.

  264. i know toad. i want my son to be, so i’m going to learn spanish and teach it to him as i go. he knows how to count in spanish, say all the days of the week and months of the year, but that’s about it.

  265. CW – i knew what yours said, but didn’t know how to put the words together to say you’re welcome. like i said, i know words, but not how to string them together properly to form sentences.

  266. Yeah, I have a friend in the military who spoke fluent German. He was assigned to Nato during Bosnia and some of the German guys were bashing Americans for not being able to speak anything but English. They were more than a little shocked when he responded to them in German.

    However, the stereotype is true. We don’t put much emphasis on learning any language other than English. I so often wish I knew more Spanish.

  267. Actually, I’m having too much fun with Google translate – I just send my wife a message in Vietnamese. I’m dying to see how she’ll respond to that.

  268. My mother used three of the four Swiss languages at home, in addition to English… and she would switch from one language to the other mid-sentence when speaking…as a test…or to better express herself.. very confusing when I finally took Parisian style French in school..

  269. I wonder if I’m too old to learn a new language – actually “languages.” I would love to speak several fluently. Learning seems to be so much easier at the very young ages.

    The only French I can recall or have ever said out loud is:
    1. touché
    2. oui
    3. je t’aime
    4. voulez vous coucher avec moi?

    Oh my!

  270. now e, when have you ever actually said #4?

    cw, in college my french professor was a lady from belgium who had learned english in the coffe shops in her home town from service men in world war 2.

  271. East Texas,
    Peut etre c’est tout ce qui est necessaire…
    (maybe that is all that is necessary…)

  272. PT.. I’ve said it any number of times (in my lowest, sexiest voice, of course) to my soul-mate husband (NOT the polygamous one!). He could speak/understand German and French which he took in college. He started it! I liked it!

    CW.. It was hardly necessary, but fun nevertheless. lmao

  273. Has Proud Texan returned from the courthouse yet?

  274. i haven’t gone yet. in about an hour.

  275. e, you make me laugh.

  276. Ok guys

    Here’s today’s Alexa site ratings:

    Alexa traffic rank: 635,097
    Traffic rank in US: 210,929
    Sites linking in : 24

    It’s actually funny is you click “Get Details” – the “Audience Snapshot” is the information I put into my Alexa toolbar this morning.
    So right now it looks like I’m the only audience member.

  277. ylno egaugnal i wokn

  278. Hey Ron,
    You forgot to count his sockpuppets, I Hate Bigots / Mary Kay / and 41 and Unmarried.

  279. Ron,

    Interesting stuff. I also ran some google queries, and found that while this site often came up in the top 5-10 of relevant queries, I never did see the other one.

    So his whole thing is a big yawner to me.

    BTW Texaspolygamy.blogspot.com is also front page hits on Google, and yet for some reason the guy thinks “Since the Modern Pharisee has been the leading FLDS centric blog for the past year” he doesn’t find it odd that his site wont show up with “FLDS centric queries” on Google.

    This query “Flds Jeffs Jessop” has this site 7th and the MP nowhere in the first three pages.

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=flds+jeffs+jessop&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

  280. So the trial has started 🙂

  281. San Angelo newspaper doing a good job at reporting!

  282. I think we don’t learn other languages because we don’t have much opportunity to practice. In Holland, for instance, almost everyone speaks excellent English; even folks working in a gas station. I was very impressed until I realized that they get British TV stations and the British channels have better programming than the Dutch ones. Motivation.

  283. “now e, when have you ever actually said #4?”

    It’s in a song from the 80’s. Creole Lady Marmalade.

  284. “Peut etre c’est tout ce qui est necessaire…”

    Mais non, vous devez demander le vin rouge, aussi.

  285. and the ever popular:
    Où est la toilette, s’il vous plaît ?

  286. If I lived in another country, I would learn their language, but it seems to me , here in the USA, people aren’t required to learn english.
    But if you live in deep south texas, your children are required to learn spanish.

  287. Wheres the outhouse, please?

  288. In California, if you want a State or County job, you better be bilingual, and Spanish preferrably.

  289. Well Stamp this aint Mexico, it United States,, and it hacks me off!!

  290. Tell me about it. Spanish is practically a required language in parts of CA and I’m sure TX too.

    Isnt it funny, many who immigrate here from down south make no effort to learn the language?

    I dont know if its laziness, indifference or both.

  291. And they may be that way for 20 years, I’m not talking seasonal workers here.

  292. Oui Betty – vous avez raison, c’est tres important.

  293. From Bile’s site:

    “The FLDS may just have it right Ron and society at large may just have it wrong but we each have a right to find out for ourselves within our own religion.

    2. ZXC on March 10th, 2010 at 3:42 pm”

    Hmmm, NOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo I dont think so.

    The FLDS cant do WTF they want to just because they have a whackjob leader or cartoon playbook – ask the Tony Alamo – he got the same edjumacation as these guys are getting.

  294. When I went looking for a volunteer gig the first thing they asked me is “Do you speak Spanish” at every organization I talked to. And that’s in Virginia. My Spanish class has local sheriff’s office workers in it.

  295. ranger nick was on the stand when i was at the courthouse.

  296. Cool Proud Texan, whatd he say?

  297. Whoa that says that MJ was 11 and another girl was 12 when Warren married them.

  298. What says??

  299. I know you hated that, PT. 🙂

  300. Alexa is notoriously inaccurate for stats. Nobody relies on it anymore. It will be difficult to get a good picture of how popular this website is because it is hosted on WordPress.com rather than self-hosted. Won’t go into the technical explanation of all this, but it’s the kind of thing I do as a social media consultant.

    A good tool for checking out Web site stats is xinureturns.com — however, again, it won’t work for this blog or Huge McNutt’s because they don’t own the domain name. Just throwing that out there for those who might be interested in using the tool. It shows you who owns the domain, how long, their Alexa traffic, Google page rank, number of incoming links, etc. Lots of info.

    Measuring influence these days is much more than just page hits or unique visitors. Engagement, as someone mentioned above, is more relevant. How long does a person stay on a site, how many links do they click, do they leave comments (and are they negative, positive or neutral), etc.

  301. Here is the Texas Dept of Public Safety’s collection of some of the dirty dozen’s mug shots.

    Dr. Lloyd Hammon has a smirky little FU grin on his face, too.

    Allan Keate didn’t look too happy that day of the mug shot photo opp.

    http://thehopeorg.org/TexasDPSwithphotos.pdf

  302. TC – Thanks. I was going to tell Ron that the computer child-of-the-corn has forbidden me to download anything. So I can’t do Alexa, or I might get grounded or something.

    But you bring up a very good point. It’s not the number of hits, it’s the discourse and quality of the posts.

    There’s lots of very smart folks around here, and some of them even speak in tongues 😛

  303. what says warren married someone other than merrianne.

  304. yeah TT, that was tough duty. Blue blazer, khaki pants, lookin sharp

  305. DD

    Another public document stating Leann was “married” to Leroy Jessop when she was 15.

    See page 10 – last paragraph (and there is a LOT on here)

    http://thehopeorg.org/YFZ_case-2928-motion-8-5-08.pdf

  306. PT – Were you there for the defense opening arguments? I’m reading on SAT that Hurley said something to the effect of the rail separating the jury from the government was to protect them.

    I think Matt Waller has done a very good job in his reporting, but I couldn’t quite get the point of that statement.

  307. i didn’t hear the opening. when i walked in nick was on the stand and i left when he left the stand.

  308. OK. Thanks.

  309. Here’s the statement:

    “This rail here separates you from the government,” Hurley said. “It’s a shield. The state cannot reach its burden of proof because they might be guilty, because they’re probably guilty — they must be guilty.”

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/mar/10/jury-seated-in-san-angelo-trial-of-flds-member/

  310. Just cause we have the spiritual marriage certificate, proof of her age, proof they lived in texas, proof they had two children before she was 18, just case there were pictures of her pregnant and holding the baby on his computer, just because he tried to destroy those pictures during the raid….can we really prove that they had sex in Texas before she was legal?????? Oh, brother.

    I know that someone has to defend the guilty for our system to work, but I don’t understand how anyone defends sex offenders who are obviously guilty and then looks themselves in the mirror the next day. I sure couldn’t do it.

  311. Catching up after working out at the gym….
    @ Anonymous said this on March 10, 2010 at 4:45 PM
    “… the dirty dozen’s mug shots.
    Dr. Lloyd Hammon has a smirky little FU grin on his face, too.
    Allan Keate didn’t look too happy that day of the mug shot photo opp.”

    Ahhh… but you misinterpret. That’s not really a smirky FU grin… that’s a keepin’ sweet smile on his face. Looks like Keate isn’t keepin’ sweet like he’s supposed to; he may be in big trouble via WSJ – maybe worse than he’s getting from this wicked ol’ “outside world.” The others are doin’ their best to follow the party line.
    KEEP SWEET NO MATTER WHAT!!!!

  312. Isn’t that Dr Barlow, not Dr Hammond ?

  313. Yes… Lloyd Barlow according to that mug shot. Sheesh! I can’t keep track of all those similar names. I should have checked that quote from Anon.

  314. Texas Connie – it’s not so much exactly what the Alexa ratings are for FLDS Texas as it is for taking away Huge McNut’s claim that he’s somehow important.

    I’m also quite curious as to whether Alexa ratings have any significance at all. If the only important factor is people surfing your site with the Alexa toolbar installed then that’s not much of a promotion of your site.

    In any event, install the Alexa toolbar and just surf for a time. You can always uninstall at some point in the future. The site rankings for FLDS Texas will tell us whether Alexa ratings mean much at all.

    Hey, if nothing else, it can make FLDS Texas more marketable.

  315. what is an alexa toolbar?

  316. Alexa toolbar.

    It’s part an experiment and part a Huge McNut smackdown. See, Hugh thinks he’s somehow significant since his Alexa ratings beats this site. My take is that his site is crap and that this site vastly generates more traffic than his site.

    A big factor in a sites Alexa rating is the number of people who go to the site with an “Alexa toolbar.” So, I’m trying to get everyone to install Alexa toolbar for a time. It’s up to you guys how long you want to install it. I want to do a before and after comparison of the Alexa ratings of this site after my public appeal for folks to install the Alexa toolbar. (Yes, I’ve already installed it myself.)

    Anyway, there’s no harm in installing it. You can always use Add/remove programs to remove it later. Hopefully by the end of this month not only will this site have some pretty good ratings but we’ll also be able to smack down Huge McEgo’s sole source of ego gratification.

    I’m no fan of tool bars, but I’m going until April 1 to see what the results are. I’d encourage you to do the same.

  317. i’ve already got a mafia toolbar. would i have to uninstall that?

  318. PT

    No you can have more than one tool bar installed. What I’ve done is install it but make it not visible. That way it doesn’t take up screen space but yet when I’m here I’m generating positive results for FLDS Texas.

    Like I said, I don’t see much down side in installing it. I hope folks will do it so we can see what happens to this sites Alexa ratings.

  319. Ron,
    I installed it.
    Good luck with the experiment.

  320. Web site counts often depend on the personal settings for the page counter.

    It can be set to add every single click/refresh or it can be set to only count new (unique) visits to the web page.

    It all depends on how the webmaster wants to set up the web page counter.

  321. I speak some French.

    A couple of my favorite phrases are:

    Et mon cul c’est du poulet?

    in addition to:

    Baise mon cul!

    They always work for me in the right situation.

  322. E.Texas it looks to me like you have mastered the French language. At least for getting a date!

  323. I am just now catching up on today’s postings.

    Ron, I hate to say it because I don’t want to get on your bad side, but I think you are as obsessed with this Alexa web site rating as Hugh and Brooke.

    OOPS I mentioned her name and now comes the wrath of Ron.

    She was touting her Alexa ratings about a year ago comparing her blog hits to such web sites as Principle Voices of Polygamy and The Hope Org. (Neither of which are blogs).

    Of course, that was before her blaugh went south.

    Anyway, it is a interesting concept you have to maybe get Hugh off of his high horse. Which is a good thing!

    So, is this Alexa program a spyware thing tracking your Internet travels? I am always weary of software like that. Not that I have anything to hide, just that things like cookies and such annoy and irate me.

    I guess it is all relative.

  324. Correction, I am always “leery” of software like that, but also cleaning out cookies does still make me “weary”

  325. Rumor has it that this MaryKay poster here is actually in copyright infringement on that lovely MaryKay lady (from Texas?) who helped empower women to sell cosmetics and earn pink Cadillacs.

  326. Stamp, I’ve got to agree with you on this. If you are visiting a foreign country then is polite try to converse in their native language.

    If you are going to permanently reside in a country speaking your non-native language, than you need to learn to speak the language of the country of your new residence.

  327. Silly notion, about Malicia. But it’s her delusion, let her have her teaparty, y’hear now?

  328. Actually, I think Alexa ratings are BS. Like I said, it’s simply a big experiment to see how having site visitors with the tool bar installed can skew your ratings.

    Plus, I know that this site generates much more traffic than Huge McNut’s site. I hope to indirectly prove to him exactly how insignificant he really is when this site smashes him in Alexa. I may not be able to do that but at least he won’t be able to say, “well, my Alexa rating is higher than yours…”

  329. Good morning Ron,
    Yeah, this is BS software, but because I really like you, I’ll tag along – but ONLY until April 1st. I installed The Alexa Statusbar for Firefox.
    http://www.alexa.com/toolbar/policy?v=status

    It takes up a much smaller bit of browser real estate down in the status bar. Will that give your experiment the same results as having the whole toolbar? Let me know if I need to change it.

    What I want to know is what pumps up the ratings? Each time I visit, or refresh, or click, or what? I usually have sites like this up for über days in a row and just refresh the page when I want to see what’s new.

    btw, how do you get italics in your posts?

  330. Ha! No need to answer that last question…. my little experiment worked!

    Like you, I MUCH prefer to put quoted material in italics and since I’m an HTMLveteran…. well…. all I need to understand is what WordPress allows in posts.

  331. Proud Texan,
    Are you headed to the court house today ?
    BTW, I have installed the Alexa toolbar, with no ill effects on my computer. It is compatible with the use of other toolbars as well.
    and anonymous @11:30 pm, you certainly have a command of the French language !
    Passez une bonne journee!

  332. Well, texasflds.wordpress.com Alexis ratings went from 635,097 yesterday to 650,257 as of 8:30 est this morning so isn’t that for their stats going backwards?

  333. I’m confused, LadySadie. What’s backwards? To me, it looks like plus 15,160.

  334. E. Texas, the most active site is #1, and then they rank backwards.

  335. The Success just arrived in my mailbox this morning. Randy Mankin says that another FLDS person bought the Griffin farm on CR 412 in Eldorado.

  336. Thanks, Betty. I guess I won’t bust a gut trying to understand this ranking stuff. I’ll just go along on this ride for the next 3 weeks. 😕

  337. From the BOZONE

    “I agree with Dormette. It is silly to imprison men who support their children. Not only will it hurt the women, it will hurt the babies. Children need both their mothers and fathers.

    2. Cupcake on March 10th, 2010 at 11:14 pm”

    Cupcake, dear, children need to get as far away from child molesters as possible. Thats why we have prisons, sunshine!

  338. “Dearie, you have to let your uncle rape you. He’s paying the bills.”

    There’s some serious family values for you there.

  339. haha–too funny Stamp–I saw that comment made by the one and only–deb dumb—hmmm…I suppose we should not put drug dealers–murders–etc in prison IF they support their children??? toooooo funny!!!!

  340. People who choose to impregnate underage girls need to be taught a lesson that they won’t soon forget!

  341. East Texas,
    If you are here, could you tell us a bit about your history, if possible, and how you came to exit?
    Thanks

  342. Hugh’s latest: “Listen to Rush Limbaugh, eventually he will tell you” bla bla bla

    Guess we know who he worships now!

  343. Not being a native — does that abut xyz at any point? How large a farm? Any more info?

  344. Isn’t CR 412 east of Eldorado?

  345. CR 300 off Hwy 277.

  346. So deblee must think it is OK to put deadbeat dad merril in jail since he does NOT support his children..

  347. Oh yeah, not paying for his kids but still trading them off to pedophiles?

    Merril Jessop, FLDS runner up for loser of the DECADE!

  348. I wonder if he writes Warren asking him how the vittles are in the various prisons he has been to, compared to the prison dogchow in Texas.

  349. 241 Acres. No, it doesn’t abut the YFZ. I believe CR 412 is west of the highway.

    Isn’t $300,000 a lot for 241 acres?

  350. CR 412 is on the opposite side of 277 from the ranch best i can tell.

    and cw, i am not going to the trial today.

  351. word is the griffin estate who sold the property need $$$.

  352. PT- Wasn’t it a Griffin who had them build a building for them?

  353. OH SNAP

    Deb Lee just lit a fire under Bill again! This is like giving milk to a milkaholic.

    And in another fit of Anabodiac Attacks, she slays the word “bureaucracy” and its variants.

    ————————–

    “I read an interesting article about CPS yesterday. It said that CPS is a big bureauracy that the government has convinced the public is doing good. That way, the government will continue to use our tax dollars to feed the bureauracy. It also helps state employees by offering job security to them.

    Unfortunately, sometimes big bureauracies do more harm them good.

    12. Cupcake on March 7th, 2010 at 10:21 pm”

  354. “241 Acres. No, it doesn’t abut the YFZ. I believe CR 412 is west of the highway.

    Isn’t $300,000 a lot for 241 acres?”

    For that area, its double what its worth. Unless there is a gold mine on it!

  355. Hell yes $300k is a lot for 241 acres out there, but it’s called a farm, so may be well developed, with upgrades like yfz’s.

  356. Stamp:

    Yeah, deadbeat dad merril jessop does make a nice poster child for a group that purports to be christian, nice, etc.

  357. ale wife

    Yeah, not much for them to look forward to. There are the lost boys and the leaders in prison, and a whole bunch of people in between wondering their fate.

  358. Griffin Oil Company, and I think it was the Elder griffin who sold the land to the Flds. And yes Flds also built a new building for him. so who knows maybe they bartered the building for the land.

  359. catwhisperer and E.Texas

    I apologize for the confusion regarding the TDPS mug shots of the “keeping sweet” child molesters.

    It is Dr. Lloyd Hammon BARLOW.

    I forgot to add the Barlow part.

  360. deputydog1 wasn’t that Griffen man in local public office or an attorney or something? His name sounds familiar.

  361. Thanks DD. I thought I remembered something like that.

  362. The Judge out there was a “Griffin” – Maybe its a “friendly gesture”

  363. LOL Stamp

  364. the farm was bought by Johnny and Sadie Beagley,, from Colorado City Arizona, members of Flds, for 309,000 Dollars.

  365. 241 acres

  366. So money is still coming in evidently.

  367. this statement is supposed to be from “Offers of Proof” filed in the District Court of the 57th Judicial District in Bexar County, Texas after the raid

    http://www.truthwillprevail.org/index.php?parentid=1&index=161

    Judge Griffin also told us that his brother owns a ranch next to the YFZ ranch and they are some of the best neighbors. His brother also does business with the ranch and says that they are always kind and always pay their bills.”

    so is this the land they bought? but YFZ is west of town, CR 412 is east?

  368. oops i mean YFZ is east of town, and CR 412 is west

  369. John and Sadie Beagley form Colorado City Az bought it for 306,900 acoording to records.

    Maybe they want to open up a “Zipper Ranch #2”

    TIP: Put the Temple on a trailer, so you can move it around!

  370. Johnny Beagley Construction is based in Colorado City. Jesse and June [Johnson] Beagley both natives of Colorado City and the parents of two teen daughters, namely Shirley and LeeAnn, who were plurally married to convicted bigamist Tom Green in Utah.

  371. Bet that brings joy to their hearts. Looky who Texas is getting, some Tom Green in-laws in Tom Green county.

  372. How many other spouses do Jesse and June have themselves?

  373. or is that Jesse and Sadie ?

  374. Does someone here know the coordinates for YFZ? I’d like to see it on Google Earth/Map. Either I’m half blind or I just can’t figure out exactly where it is in relation to Eldorado proper. (Yes, I know I’m being lazy asking for this before I spend time digging deeper to find it.)

  375. ““I read an interesting article about CPS yesterday. It said that CPS is a big bureauracy that the government has convinced the public is doing good. That way, the government will continue to use our tax dollars to feed the bureauracy. It also helps state employees by offering job security to them.

    Unfortunately, sometimes big bureauracies do more harm them good.”

    She has a point, Stamp. (Clearly she doesn’t have spellcheck or editing abilities but she DOES have a point.) CPS has no meaningful oversite and that means that how good an office is depends entirely on the personal integrity of the supervisors. My son was just reading to me last night about a woman who starved a 7 year old boy in her care to death and then received a sentence amounting to basically nothing. That’s a disgrace. Just as the IRS was out of control years ago, CPS seems to be out of control now. Heck, the fact that a piece of pond scum like Medvecky was ever allowed to be a foster parent shows the glaring failures in the system. 😉

  376. The Tom Green case brought out that both of the Beagley daughters had not wanted to be plurally wed to older FLDS priesthood men and left Colorado City. Shirley Beagley became Tom Green’s second plural wife at age 16 years and her sister plurally married Tom Green at 14 years of age. I would suspect that Jesse Beagley is a brother/cousin to Johnny and Sadie Beagley.

  377. the article I read said Johnny and Sadie Beagley, not Johnny and Jesse.
    Anyway 241 acres for that price is pretty dang cheap

  378. E. Texas,

    What code did you use to get italics?

    I’m lost without the ability to use them.

  379. [i]Isn’t $300,000 a lot for 241 acres?”

    For that area, its double what its worth. Unless there is a gold mine on it![/i]

    I disagree.

    $1,244.81/ac. for a 241 acre piece is within market prices.

    There are two real estate acreage listings in this week’s Success.

    One is an 88 acre piece at $1420/ac. and the other is 84.8 acres at $1353/ac.

  380. Testing.

  381. Cool beans.

  382. Yay… you got it…. I was just about to post this:

    It’s just regular HTML code for italics.
    <i>italicized words here </i>

  383. TT,
    I don’t know if it works in other browsers – I use Firefox – but you can highlight whatever text you’re wondering about, right-click, and choose View selection source. Voila! You can see the source code.

  384. Twist – I was just joking, but pointing out it was no bargain.

    Also, larger pieces would cost less per acre, so I am sure they paid full pop. Adjoining owners should be aware there is now higher demand created by this group and the prices will likely raise accordingly.

    There is plenty of Texas to go around but only so much around YFZ.

  385. it’s the county judge’s brother who died and the estate needed money so they sold the land.

  386. They could have got a million for it if they said there was a Temple pad all ready to go!

  387. You have to remember where the land is, you can’t farm it, to rocky, and hilly, so much ranchers raise goats or some cattle, and many have Gas Wells on their land, make bookoo money

  388. Joseph Smith married 7 plural wives aged from 14 to 17 years old, namely N. Winchester, H. Kimball, S. Lawerence, L. Walker, F. Alger, F. Woodworth and S. Whitney. Joseph’s age during these marriages was varied from his age of 28 to 38 years of age. So my point is that Raymond Merril and Merril Leroy Jessop are just righteous and good Priesthood ‘Joseph Smith’ men, following in their founder Prophet’s footprints. There is nothing new to the fundamentalists plural marriages to ‘Child Brides’.

    What then is to be said about Michael Emack and Allen Keate marrying ‘Child Brides’ when they were in their 50s? You should be aware that the Prophet Brigham Young married 7 plural wives aged from 16 to 19 years old, namely E. Fairchild, D. Chase, E. Free, H. Cook, E. Rockwood, M. Bigelow and L. Bigelow. Brigham’s age during these marriages was varied from his age of 43 to 45 years of age, so this makes Allen and Michael just righteous and good Priesthood ‘Brigham Young’ men.

    The bigger laugh is this sect has no intention of giving up their falsely proclaimed ‘Freedom of Religion’ and their lying spokesman Willie R. Jessop who stated that he is unaware of any FLDS ‘Child Brides’ being plural married at the YFZ Raunch. I think most Texans should be made aware that this fundamental sect has no intention of changing their practices nor beliefs, regardless of any ‘Gentile’ laws to the contrary.

  389. http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/mar/11/jessop-trial-testimony-includes-facts-of-life/

    Update San Angelo newspapwer

  390. To y’all who think it’s no big deal to take children away from their parents. Removing a child from their parent is a horrific experience and should ONLY be done AFTER specific proof is obtained – not just to investigate.

    Here’s how people respond to this type of situation when it’s done to people in normal religions.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1256984/Primary-schoolchildren-tears-told-removed-families-Holocaust-game.html

  391. Didn’t I read someone mentioned that the Marykay cosmetics company was looking for Marykay for copyright infringment???

  392. Hi Marykay, Are you back for another drive-by-lie or are you willing to talk about how many children were removed from Short Creek and brought to the YFZ Raunch by prophet Warren Steed Jeffs? How is it that 439 children were sequeatered inside the buildings at the raunch and no local authorities were made aware of their residence and hidden totals? Did the FLDS Church leadership have something to hide after promising Justice of the Peace Jimmy Doyle and Sheriff Doran that they would limit the ranch residents to a maximum of 150 adults and children total? Isn’t the YFZ Raunch the ‘New Jerusalem’? Isn’t the ‘EndTime’ elapsing and fanatical believers have moved over 1,000 miles away from Short Creek at the behest of a convicted felon being held in prison awaiting multiple charges? You should have your community and township invaded sometime to see how you would respond to the invasion. Want to have a discussion about the evidence or facts or just your unfounded claims?

  393. Don’t be fooled by Marykay’s attempt to switch the focus away from the FLDS Church practice of sister wives being married as ‘Child Brides’ by both Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. In case you haven’t noticed they never own up to any wrong doing because they are following God’s law as revealed by Joe Smith and therefore they are always in the right and the ‘Gentiles’ are always in the wrong.

    Marykay are you going to discuss the evidence or just proclaim another radical belief by the ‘Chosen Ones’?

  394. To y’all who think it’s no big deal to take children away from their parents. Removing a child from their parent is a horrific experience and should ONLY be done AFTER specific proof is obtained – not just to investigate.

    Here’s how people respond to this type of situation when it’s done to people in normal religions.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1256984/Primary-schoolchildren-tears-told-removed-families-Holocaust-game.html

    Marykay said this on March 11, 2010 at 12:44 PM
    ___________________

    Tell it to Warren Jeffs, Mary Kay.

  395. So Marykay do you care to share about what a stalwart and righteous Priesthood ‘Joseph Smith’ man that Merril Leroy Jessop is and how his trial is a persecution and not a prosecution?

    Come on Marykay, I promise to use only facts and historical records that proves your churchmen are liars.

  396. What ever Warren did he certainly didn’t do it with the cooperation of CPS, FBI and Rangers.

    You know, I really wouldn’t care about this case if the Rangers and CPS workers were on trial too.

    And CalJim, even if it was true Warren relocated some kids, it made what the Government did 100% worse. Even if they had their lives torn apart by Warren, they had it done to them again with the raid.

  397. Marykay you seem to give Warren some lawful authority to remove children that he simply does not possess? Warren has no right to traffick in children or ‘Child Brides’ and take them across Statelines. He is guilty of violating the Federal Mann Act for shuttling teen age girls to celestial marry and has violated sexual assault and bigamy laws in his actions. Please, spare me the false claim that law enforcement can be liable for fanatical acts performed by a religious sect run amuck by a prophetic sociopath. Put on your oxygen mask and breath deeply the ‘Mormonade’ seems to be affecting your judgments.

  398. Marykay Warren is quoted as having said, “We will go through the TEST, a similar test like in the 1880’s, to see what we love most. And I say to us, ‘Stand with God, Priesthood and the Celestial Law [of Marriage] no matter what they do to our possessions and our lands’. On November, 2003 Warren further stated, ” The Lord will have me do this, get more girls married, not only as a test to the parents, but also to test this people to see if they will give the prophet up”. Seems like Warren fancies himself as a regular ‘Joseph Smith’ follower and right into his jail cell, too!

  399. Earlier I asked, “Does someone here know the coordinates for YFZ?”

    Okay… I understand why I can’t see it… it’s not there! — at least nowhere near its present form. Google Earth/Maps is showing satellite imagery from way back in June 2004!!

    Gee! I live in the boonies too, but I’ve seen two images of my neck of the woods since then – the latest being December 2009.

  400. E. Texas, center your map on Eldorado proper. You’ll see 277 running north and south.

    Follow 277 just slightly north where it splits off from CR (County Road) 300. Move north and west on CR 300. It’s about 3 miles out there on the north side of the road.

  401. Here E. Texas:

    http://www.bing.com/maps/#JnE9eXAuZWxkb3JhZG8lMmMrdHglN2Vzc3QuMCU3ZXBnLjEmYmI9MzAuNzYzODM1MzQ4OTE2NyU3ZS0xMDAuNjYzMjM3NTcxOTM3JTdlMzAuNzU5MzgyNDE3OTEwNiU3ZS0xMDAuNjc0MjIzOTAwMDYy

    Same as above but when you get out to CR 300 switch to ‘bird’s eye.’

  402. So the Prophet Brigham Young plural married 55 wives and Prophet Joseph Smith married 34 wives and the FLDS Church community has every intention of living the ‘Doctrine & Covenant 132’ command as a primary precept of their worship, albeit is a felony to sexual assault a minor or practice bigamy in the State of Texas, Colorado, South Dakota, Nevada, Idaho, Utah or Arizona. They are not law abiding citizens or respectful of Law & Order.

  403. What ever Warren did he certainly didn’t do it with the cooperation of CPS, FBI and Rangers.

    Yeah. That’s basically the reason they’re holding a trial right now.

  404. from gosanangelo: Hurley wants the state/prosecution to prove Jessop lived at YFZ when the victim was impregnated. She lived there, the child is Leroy’s DNA, how long do they want us to think his penis is? Maybe there’s a geographical question about the first one is why he’s only being tried for one?

    Defense attorney Hurley had made a prior agreement not to mention the children having been rescued, taken from YFZ, but he lied and broke his word.

  405. Marykay ought to just stuff it, stop using that name in conflict with laws, and just use Malicia since we all know who that is anyway with the stupid threats and paranoid delusions.

  406. Thank you, Miele! Funny thing, that due process stuff.

    I agree that CPS nationwide needs oversight, that the pendulum has swung too far in the direction of granting them powers and needs to swing back to something more reasonable. I think that in the case of the raid, faced with such numbers of people, an organized system of lying amongst the FLDS, and the severity of crimes that were right there in front of them, they over reacted. However, knowing what we know now, many of those children would have been removed under normal investigation procedures anyway. A full one fourth of all the children were living in the same family with at least one sexual assault victim, for instance.

    However, nothing that went wrong in the CPS process in any way excuses either morally or legally the crimes that were committed by FLDS members before CPS ever showed up at the gate.

  407. I figured that was where he was going; it’s the only possible defense in the face of so many facts. He’s asking the jury to acquit on the possibility that Leroy drove her into another state (presumably a state in which having sex with a 15 year old is legal) to have sex with her. I hope the jury gives him a great big raspberry. And I hope the judge spanks him for breaking the agreements he signed before the case started.

    I thought that they were focusing on the first pregnancy since with an age of 15, it would carry a greater sentence. But that’s just opinion not fact.

  408. About that land, maybe there’s live water but I doubt that, I can’t recall any offhand, something to increase the price. Greenhouses, hydroponics, anything? MINERAL RIGHTS included?

    No, gas and oil doesn’t pay all that much to the individual or corporate mineral rights owner, unless you own a whole lot of them. But it’s nice to have a check in the mail. Still you have to pay taxes on production just like on surface land & what’s on it.

    I imagine Griffins out there are related to my spouse some way, that interrelated bunch migrated to TX after the civil war and went to selling land then oil land besides farming and such.

  409. Sounds right to me, Betty.

  410. … except now that I think on it Leroy wouldn’t want to get himself into a Mann Act thing, a married man taking a young teen, crossing state line/s for sex.

  411. Damned if he do and damned if he dont

  412. Hurley said earlier he intended to play on “reasonable doubt” but isn’t that for murder trials?

  413. Betty, I think you’ve got Hurley nailed. He confused me yesterday with the notion that the jury must find Eric Nichols guilty.

    If the defense agrees not to bring something up in the pre-trial agreements and then does it, what is the recourse?

    Granny, I don’t think the State has any jurisdiction on the Mann Act. I think those charges have to be Federal.

    This trial, starting with Willie and going along as it is, sure is going to be interesting.

  414. Of course Mann Act is federal. That shoe hasn’t dropped.

    Yet.

  415. Maybe if he gets a not guilty verdict, on the premise that he doesn’t live at YFZ, Nichols will have the Feds waiting in the wings? If we could only be so lucky…

  416. No, the defense does not have to prove he did that, thus opening him up to federal charges. All they have to do is raise the question in the mind of the jury enough that the jury thinks he might not be guilty. Which, I personally believe is ridiculous. You have his two children, the wives living at the ranch, the certificates of ‘marriage’, the dictations, the photos on the ranch property that memorialize the relationship, him being there at the time of the raid, his trying to deny that she was under age, etc…..just very silly to suggest that because he could have driven her out of state that he is innocent. The only way the jury would go for that is if they WANTED to acquit him for some other reason (like sympathy for the religion) and chose that little nugget to blame it on. Stranger things have happened, but I kind of doubt it.

  417. Granny, Yeah. Good question. Why hasn’t it?

  418. Miele,
    Thank you so much! I’m not a Bing user per se, but that hit the spot.

    Heh… I thought about answering you nothing (I was very good at it once upon a time) but it’s not in my nature.
    Anyway, I wanted to avoid having you sue me and then answer me nothing.

    Thanks again!

  419. Because for Mann Act to be involved, there has to be proof not only that they crossed state lines and had sex, but that the REASON they crossed state lines was to have sex. Very hard to prove, IMHO. So, I actually do not expect anyone except maybe Warren to be hit with that. His dictations of traveling around the US with a chorus of teenage girls he called “wives”, or ordering some man to drive his wives or the man’s daughter to some location to meet him is more than a bit incriminating but I think you would still need witnesses, hotel receipts, etc.

  420. Maybe Ron can answer Granny’s question… I thought all jury trials were based on reasonable doubt. I once served on a jury for a civil trial – lawsuit – and that’s what we were told.

  421. I answer Ron’s toolbar nothing.

  422. Yeah, I don’t know that one. I thought murder had a higher standard of proof than some other crimes.

  423. Civil trials wouldn’t have that high a bar. I just don’t know a whole lot about criminals and criminal law stuff. It’s not in my genes. 😉

  424. I wonder if reasonable doubt is required differently in different states.

  425. Yes ET that’s logical. I only know there’s a general separation between civil and criminal procedure.

  426. The burden of proof doesn’t change from one crime to another. The standard is beyond a reasonable doubt for each element of any crime. That’s the standard in every state to the best of my knowledge.

    The State will need to prove that the crime was committed in Texas but the standard there is a preponderance of the evidence. (More than 50%)

    I sense they’re going to try a “freedom from government intrusion religious liberty” defense. At least it does appear that’s where there headed.

  427. Miele said:

    What ever Warren did he certainly didn’t do it with the cooperation of CPS, FBI and Rangers.

    Yeah. That’s basically the reason they’re holding a trial right now.

    ————————————————-

    Yeah. That’s basically the reason why there isn’t a trial for the hoax caller(s)!

  428. MaryKay,

    FU
    Love Fred

  429. MK, has anyone told you that you don’t make any sense?

    If not, I’m telling you now.

  430. The religious freedom to enslave young girls. Hello, Taliban!

  431. Didnt they try that with the other 3 convicted Flds men??

  432. Way kewl. A FU to a FRED by deputydog1 acting as Fred. Now I’m going to have to sue myself anonymously and answer myself nothing. Red round things doeth no good, beyond a reasonable doubt.

  433. Gotta love Fred.

  434. LOL GrannyToad, I like your Penis analogy!!!

  435. Mary Kay,
    You accused me last week of being a member of an organized conspiracy responsible for making a hoax phone call.
    I asked you for evidence.
    So where is it?

  436. Ron,
    So how is your Open Label Phase I Clinical Trial of Alexa coming along thus far?
    How are we progressing in site rankings ?

  437. Hoax phone calls are misdemeanors. Put a sock it it.

    ______

    Yeeaahhhh DD1 didja see one in your night sky some years back?

  438. Okay so CR 412 is on the West side of El Dorado, while CR 300 or Rudd Road is on the East side of El Dorado Thanks Miele 🙂

  439. Da Nada, dd1.

    Ron has two new posts up at http://fldslegal.blogspot.com/
    Thank you Ron, and your toolbar.

    One is funny the other deals with legal strategy. Please do not click on them and give him hits.

  440. Cat

    The preliminary data show us going the wrong way, but I don’t read too much into that. I’ve actually started an Excel spreadsheet to track it.

    We’ll see.

  441. Ron,
    I don’t think enough of our posters have installed the toolbar to generate sufficient sample size to power your study.
    That may be the issue.

  442. I didn’t. I’m lazy.

  443. Yesterday a horrid sandstorm, today it rained, and now its COLD!!!!

  444. You must be in Texas.

  445. I’ve been lazy, also. I have to log out, log in as administrator, install, log out of administrator, log in as me. PITA. But it does help prevent some of the worst viruses if the me that plays on the internet is not allowed to update the registry and such.

  446. It’s warm and rainy here. And all the early Spring bulbs are coming up like crazy. The snow must have helped them.

  447. Well, I think Marykay’s a dud! I asked her to talk about the ‘Joseph Smith’ Priesthood man, Merril Leroy Jessop and read nuthin’. Then I asked about the 439 ‘Lost Children’ on the YFZ Raunch and no written response.

    Then Marykay goes past the nine (9) sexual assaults of minors and tries to discuss the CPS Removal. Doesn’t 9 felony indictments and illegal marriages of girls qualify for major acts of child abuse? Three convictions to date involved 55+children who were returned to convicted felons households. I think focusing on the felonies and returning the children to felon’s homes is the heart of the matter, especially when compared to the interim CPS Removal.

  448. Cajim,, MaryKay knows NOTHING about Joesph Smith, or Warren Jeffs, or anyone else involved in this mess. The whole friggin bunch of them, Marykay, Alinusara, Deb Lee, REFUSE TO READ OR EXAMINE ANY EVIDENCE.. They are like talking to a BRICK wall.

  449. No, I think that Marykay knows full well who Joseph Smith’s plural 34 wives are and two of them were 14 years old, namely Nancy Winchester and Hellen Mar Kimball. She just doesn’t want to own up to the fact that a righteous FLDS Church Priesthood men teach their children that such felony behaviors is their outlaw culture and fanatical belief system, which they choose to defend and attempt to preserve by moving to Texas, Colorado and South Dakota.

  450. Yu Huh,, I think you might be right caJIM

  451. #

    I’ve been lazy, also. I have to log out, log in as administrator, install, log out of administrator, log in as me. PITA. But it does help prevent some of the worst viruses if the me that plays on the internet is not allowed to update the registry and such.

    Betty said this on March 11, 2010 at 5:36 PM

    Betty, you could just surf as admin and then if you get a nasty virus, Miele can help you sue yourself for messing up your PC.

  452. So, is it just possible that the FLDS realizes that Carolyn Jessop can go after the YFZ ranch so that is why the Beagley’s bought another parcel for everyone to move over to?

    Or, do you think they know that we have a conspiracy plan to take over the YFZ and turn it into the WTF ranch?

  453. ssshhh

  454. MaryKay are you still here? I’m still waiting for the evidence of the names of the conspirators (people) behind the hoax phone call and the “people” whom you claim made that call.

    You made 2 serious allegations a few days ago, now back them up with facts please.

  455. Anonymous,
    You have discovered my plot to establish the WTF Ranch proximate to the YFZ Ranch. Keep it quiet, please.
    And yes, Mary Kay, I am still waiting for you to present the evidence that I was part of a team of hoax callers.

  456. cat, i hope you aren’t holding your breath while waiting.

  457. I haven’t lived in a city for a long time. Today I heard the ice cream man.

  458. Johnny Griffin is no longer the Schleicher County Judge. He resigned in the fall of 2008 with just over a year left in his four year term.

    Charley Bradley was appointed as county judge after he won the 2008 General Election to fill the vacated seat.

    Charley Bradley will run unopposed for Schleicher County Judge in this November’s general election unless someone files as an official write-in candidate.

    I’m aware that the Schleicher County website still lists Johnny Griffin as County Judge, but I confirmed my information with someone who lives in Schleicher County.

    For those who subscribe to the Eldorado Success, their March 3 issue refers to Charlie Bradley as the county judge.

  459. Charley Bradley will run unopposed for Schleicher County Judge in this November’s general election unless someone files as an official write-in candidate.

    Texas Twist PLEASE don’t go advertising this fact. Willie “the thug” Jessop just might throw his hat in the ring.

    Considering he has attended all 4 of the FLDS child molester trials to date and there are many more FLDS child molester trials to go before the November election, then the buffoon just might pass the residency requirement.

    And, with his brilliant “mistrial” effort on Monday, he could be singing “Here Come The Judge” to himself.

    Let’s not give him any more visions of grandeur.

  460. Cat,

    Didn’t you notice the (s)? I really don’t know if it was one caller or multiple people involved. The Rangers did a really bad job of investigation, so I don’t think the entire story was out. Right now I would think it’s more probable there was more than one person involved.

    As for you Cat, I never said you were a hoax caller? Did you misinterpret what I said? Do you really think I found out who you are and connected you to the hoax? News flash…..I really don’t know who you are and I respect others right to privacy.

    Why would you jump to such as strange conclusion?

    Hmmm……..

  461. E Texas asked:Does someone here know the coordinates for YFZ? I’d like to see it on Google Earth/Map.

    I’ve noticed sometimes it’s there and other times it’s not! The image seems to change from one day to another. One day the temple is under construction and there’s a house here and there. But on other days you can see all sorts of fully constructed buildings. Tonight I get a lot of greenery, and some fuzzy buildings. Go figure!

  462. No Mary Kay, read your previous posts. You clearly suggested that I and the other contributors to this blog as well were part of a group who placed the hoax call. There is nothing strange about my conclusion, there is something strange about your manner of communication, which consists mostly of disjointed, unrelated “facts”, if you can call them that. There is no evidence of more than one hoax caller. If you have other information, produce it, or cease and desist from your fabrications.

  463. Anon, Schleicher County is where YFZ is. Tom Green County is where this trial is being conducted. They already ran out the jury pool at Schleicher last year.

  464. Hi guys

    I want to enlist your help again. I know that what unites us here is an intolerance for child abuse. I wrote a post about the guy who testified yesterday in the FLDS case.

    I put is email address in the post. What I’d like you to do is to take a short amount of time and write him to thank him for standing up for the children in the State of Texas.

    Part of why I am where I am today is way back when I was a student in Jack Sampson’s “Chidren’s Rights Clinic.” If you truly believe that children deserve every opportunity then I hope you’ll take some time to thank (Hmmm. or maybe salute?) Jack Sampson.

  465. “However, nothing that went wrong in the CPS process in any way excuses either morally or legally the crimes that were committed by FLDS members before CPS ever showed up at the gate.”

    I agree absolutely, Betty.

  466. “Why would you jump to such as strange conclusion?”

    Most likely because you write like a 12 year old drama queen on some hallucenogenic drug.

  467. Cat, since I really, really don’t know your real names, I know I didn’t say anything like that (or at least say it on purpose).

    Do you want to point to the post where I said that?

  468. Hey Ron, I am supposed to get my new (hand me down from my son) computer tomorrow and I’ll install the toolbar then — while I’m installing everything else. 🙂

  469. Mary Kay,
    Read your own post from last week.
    It is NOT my responsibility to teach you to communicate effectively, that is YOUR responsibility.

  470. Ron in Houston,
    Read my post regarding the dangers associated with underaged females giving birth on your blog. I have placed it as a response on your Legal Math Equation entry.
    Thanks for your recent posts.

  471. Read this post by MaryKay from the “YFZ satellite view” thread and compare it to the one made just above at 10:34 PM. To me, it sounds like 2 totally different people or someone with big mental issues who is bipolar or Schizophrenic.

    Just keep in mind that both posts were made only 10 minutes apart tonight. Then you decide what it going on with this poster.

    Here is the post made on the other thread at 10:44 PM This post is hostile and agressive.

    The one from 10:34 PM above is a 180 degree turn twisting the facts and kissing up to catwhisperer.

    I am not a mental health expert, but I think this woman(?) needs help.

    If there is a mental health expert on board, are these 2 MaryKay postings (made within 10 minutes of each other) a classic example of passive/aggressive behavior?

    Here she goes on the YFZ satellite thread:

    Wow, a discussion about the location of air conditioners?

    Tell me how does the placement of air conditioners relate to saving the children?

    What’s your motivation for this type of discussion:

    1. Does it give you a sense of connection to your old FLDS family?

    2. Does it give you a thrill to invade the privacy of the FLDS? Kinda like you telling them they can’t even place air conditioners without you knowing about it.

    3. Are you providing details in hopes of some people seeing it and using your information to harm the members?

    4. Are you trying to intimidate them so they will never feel safe letting their children outside?

    Someone want to call up CW and get some analysis?

    Marykay said this on March 11, 2010 at 10:44 PM

  472. Anon 10:32,

    I’m always up for some good entertainment, but I’ll not mention the unmentionable again because I don’t think the good folks in Schleicher County would find it very amusing.

    Rural county politics already have too many clown car instances as it is.

  473. Anonymous 11:55, MaryKay shows classic signs of “hasn’t got a life-ism”. Regrettably, the cure, while simple, is too difficult for most sufferers to manage. It involves turning off your computer and interacting with the real world for at least a few hours a day. Mary mistakenly believes she has friends here on the internet who share her paranoia and delusional thinking but she doesn’t realize that they’ll throw her to the wolves the first time the voices tell them too. Sigh, I’m afraid it’s hopeless. Well just have to sit back and watch the slow descent into madness…

  474. Hey Rebeckah, so there’s wolves (i.e. harmful people) I need to worry about?

  475. What’s your under-the-bed-monster up to now?

  476. Wolves like bile m, ole lying dog deci duane, ceptic, etc. Yes wolves like that.

  477. Forgot to add U&I a lying alin.

  478. Warren was a pretty good wolf, he tore through town exing dozens of men from the church and their families, and dusted his shoes on the Shartcrack.

    With Wolves like that who needs a prophet?

  479. RIH
    While well intentioned I don’t think posting the communications info you did on the distinguished gentleman is a good idea – those who are, as you say, united in opposition to child abuse, might get a different idea…. would you consider altering the post?

  480. A wolf to me is someone who chooses to overlook the Texas Exodus from Utah into Schleicher County, the establishment of a fenced gulag, watchtower and covert community, the sequestered 439 children and 12 San Angelo Grand Jury indictments for 27 charges that are mostly felonies. The topical complaint made is to try to raise the bogus ‘hoax’ call, which has never lead to any charge(s), the CPS Removal that has caused unproven damages and a claim of persecution when felony prosecutions are brought. Seems like a wolf dressed up in sheeps skin to me Marykay had a lil’ lamb, whose fleece was used as a snow job!

    You don’t seem to want to discuss the 9 raped girls that were all trafficked to the YFZ Raunch. Too young to drive and too indoctrinated to even know what the ‘facts of life’ are before their sexually assaulted and impregnated.

  481. “However, nothing that went wrong in the CPS process in any way excuses either morally or legally the crimes that were committed by FLDS members before CPS ever showed up at the gate.”

    Surely you would agree that if CPS made some missteps that there should be penalties to ensure that the same missteps don’t occur in the future?

    Hehe CaJIM they was old enough to drive just not old enough to legally drive.

  482. Alinusara, who was old enough to drive, and why is the ability to drive a consideration in this case ?

  483. HHG

    You know, I thought about the issue you raised. It’s on his web site at UT law school. I know there are a number of wack jobs around, and if they really wanted they’d track him down.

    I guess I felt that he’d get a lot more kudos than any flames. Eh, let me think about it some more – maybe I can revise and do it a bit differently.

    In the meantime, PLEASE send him a kudo. He really has done a lot to protect children in Texas.

  484. I’ll send him a kudo then Ron. Thanks for your post.

  485. Ron, will you please ship MaryKay/40anddelusional/I_am_a_bigot your lastest fashions in tinfoil hats! She is in need of the quadruple layer, heavy duty model.

  486. The only missteps CPS made was stopping the investigations of abused children on that ranch. I might add it wasn’t the state CPS that made that decision, but the Head Honcho of the National Social Services.
    Even the two well known Attorney’s for representing CPS, made statements about that issue, and handed in their resignations. But since you NEVER read anything Alinusara, I refuse to do your reading for you, or repeat what has been documented over the last year.

  487. I just don’t understand why the ability of a teenager to drive is an indication that they may safely have intercourse.
    What is the association?

    The real issue is that girls < 18 yrs old have not completed their growth cycle, and they are not legally old enough to give their independent consent for surgery or a medical procedure. Given that teenage girls may become pregnant and need to undergo medical procedures, including surgery, they should at least be old enough to give their independent consent for those procedures before they are "married" to persons who might impregnate them.

  488. “Surely you would agree that if CPS made some missteps that there should be penalties to ensure that the same missteps don’t occur in the future?”

    Yes, and if I recall correctly, the Texas legislature changed the law right after the raid to make that legally possible in the future. But you can’t go back in time and change the law to be in effect before it was written. So get over it already.

  489. Deputydog

    How can Head Honcho of the National Social Services tell Texas CPS what to do?

    Do they get federal funds?

    justwondering?

  490. Rant on.

    They “were” not they “was”! I’m sorry, I just can’t take it anymore! Learn English, already!

    You see, “was” is a singular verb, but “they” is always a plural pronoun. The two do not go together. It is never correct to say “They was”.

    There is also the tense called “conditional simple”. In that case, a plural verb can be placed with a singular pronoun. Example: If I WERE you, I would go home now….not If I WAS you, I would whip out another red herring……

    Rant over.

  491. Anon,, do you know who was head of National Health and Humans Services in 2008? Michael Levitt,, you get my drift now?

  492. Cps workers, and attorneys were infuriated when there was a sudden stop to investigations of the child abuse happening at the ranch.

  493. HAHA,, sorry Betty,,, I type faster than my brain processes at times. Your right, it should of been “were”. I also have a bad habit of typing the way I talk instead of the correct way of speaking. Just one of them thangs.

  494. I agree, the great mistake on the part of CPS was to send those children back to the yfz compound before a full investigation was made. It is now evident that children were returned from CPS custody to the custody of men who have subsequently been tried and convicted for underage marriage and sex. Also some of the flds women have probably been complicit in those dreadful acts.

  495. DD1 I believe Betty’s rant may have been directed to A-li-n, A-li-n (sack o’ s***) ALWAYS uses “was” (as in they “was”) incorrectly, it has been setting my teeth on edge for months now.

  496. That’s okay LadySadie, went back and read my statement and I’d done the same thing, lol 🙂

  497. You don’t seem to want to discuss the 9 raped girls that were all trafficked to the YFZ Raunch. Too young to drive and too indoctrinated to even know what the ‘facts of life’ are before their sexually assaulted and impregnated.
    ……………..

    And whose educations were ended before even finishing high school. No time for school, jobs, careers and dreams when the FLDS keeps ’em barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.

    Well, more accurately: uniformed, pregnant and in the kitchen.

  498. Maybe this is a good example of why Utah does NOTHING about 28-year-old men messing around with 15-year-old girls.

    LadySadie, you should add another excuse to your “Deer do it” list.

    Utah Legislators do it!

    House Majority Leader Kevin Garn admits to incident with girl in past
    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700016009/House-Majority-Leader-Kevin-Garn-admits-to-incident-with-girl-in-past.html

  499. Yes, DD1, I was talking to Alin. Sorry for not making that clear.

  500. “Surely you would agree that if CPS made some missteps that there should be penalties to ensure that the same missteps don’t occur in the future?”

    Yep, although I’m with the others in feeling that one HUGE misstep was simply returning the children en mass. There were clearly a couple of families that should have lost all rights to their children (Merril and Barbara being one such) rather than getting them back.

  501. chemist, CPS also returned children to people who were not the biological nor legal parents; in at least one case the legal parent was trying to get custody and was ignored.

  502. I think anyone who is available and can, should go to the biker rally against child abuse April 14 in colorado City Az,, for more info,, look here http://www.freerally.wordpress.com There is a map of the trail they will follow.. And its a good cause,,

  503. My turn for a little rant? – not to defend but perhaps to explain?

    Chemist said: “…some of the flds women have probably been complicit in those dreadful acts.

    I think the word is most rather than some. That complicity is “almost” a given. (Make note of the “almost.”)

    You’re born in this “way of life,” you’re indoctrinated from the cradle, you have very little outside influence, and so little experiential and educational fodder allowed that can give you the slightest modicum of choice, that such complicity is to be expected. It’s do or die.

    I blame the original guys (yes,males!) who did come from “the outside world” and did make their personal choice to join “The Work” way back when. They proceeded with all the mind controlling and isolationist tricks they could muster and became extremely good at it. Originally, they had to convince insecure females who were (in those days) raised to believe males are dominant, the patriarchs, he who must be obeyed to be saved from eternal hell.

    Then it gets easier and becomes self-fulfilling with your offspring – male and female alike. Among the tricks, isolation is key. Lying is next – lie to you and expect you to lie for them. Survival. The chosen few. God has chosen you above all others to be among the faithful who will be called to teach the truth to those who have never heard it (after the “destructions.” ::eyes rolling::) Compelling? Perhaps not to you as a “normal” law-abiding adult, but… you get my drift.

    If those women don’t get any balancing information through outside education, experience and feedback from even a few non-member others, how can they be anything other than complicit? There is nothing for them to consider.

    Understand, I’m not defending anyone’s behavior; I’m just saying that the strong beliefs built into their psyche – from the cradle – trumps the law of the land.

    As for the “almost:” that belongs to a few people like me who, even being born into it, got some measure of outside influence and experience, and – how shall I put it – finally do act on the logical, instinctual balls they were born with to go against the indoctrinated grain and do something other than comply.

    That the law is now forcing itself into their lives “may” be a good thing, though probably only for a very few. Most will hunker down under the yoke of their perceived religious persecution, go further underground, and feel all the more blessed – or should I say superior.

    I am no longer so blessed – I am blissed.

  504. How sad E. that in this day and time, this can be integrated into so many children. It’s not like the “outside” world is a long way from anywhere. The outside world has found its way into nearly every household, via TV and internet.
    I know for a fact they have computers and internet. They took almost 65 computers off that ranch.
    I agree instilling fear is easy when a child is born, especially if delibertatly done. But, I saw kids from Flds in a shelter where I live, and they were thriving, and they were smiling. Unlike what FLDS will tell you, the children were experiencing some good things.
    Not to say they didn’t miss their mother or father, especially the really young ones, but you know I saw people who really cared about these children. And the children responded to them.

  505. Heads Up :
    The Sisters in Islam, a feminist group in Malaysia which recently sponsored a study on the ill effects of polygyny on women and children, has come under attack once more, this time for opposing the caning of women accused of illicit sexual activity.
    See below :
    http://www.wluml.org/node/6006

  506. I believe E Texas and I’m quite certain she knows what she’s speaking of. Well said.

  507. dd1,
    No way I can dispute anything you’re saying. I totally believe you about those children thriving and experiencing good things. It’s a big deal that flds have internet-connected computers. (I won’t go into all the reasons why this is so.)

    Children naturally want to please parents, teachers and authority figures. Their keep sweet, smiling, complying, thriving behaviors were already built into them, don’t you see?

    So I have no doubt most responded positively to the caring people around them. I have no doubt about the majority of “outsiders” who do really care. You’re absolutely right flds adults don’t want to tell the truth about any of that.

    My hope is that those who did come away from their outside experience will retain that positiveness somewhere deep down in their mind-controlled psyches and act on it later when they are old enough to successfully rebel. They certainly can’t do it right now.

  508. I agree E.

  509. Good link, Cat, thanks.

    And btw… I’m still mulling over your request for a bit about my history and exit. Not sure just how far to put myself out there. There are any number of people reading this blog who would know exactly who I am, and probably do even now anyway, since I’ve been my real self on other blogs. It wouldn’t be the end of the world if I were “outted.” I have good reasons for remaining “circumspect.”

    The other problem is, it would take a book! I don’t know that this forum could take that long a post. 😀 So, I’ll get back to you later.

    Sigh…. I should really get crackin’ on writing my book. Anyone know how to get off a writer’s-block dime?

  510. Write about a really nice day you recall. Then see what follows. I know you’re not out of ink, or paper!

  511. I’ll await your book then, E.

  512. I know who you are E. I would very much like to know what was the determining factor of why you left?

  513. Oh NO, Bile Mudpucky needs to get busy in his own backyard:

    http://www.news4jax.com/news/22813284/detail.html

    Clay County deputies who raided three alleged methamphetamine labs in the Orange Park area on Wednesday said they found not only illegal drug manufacturing, but also children at two of the locations.

    Six people were arrested in connection with the raids, two of them parents of a 5-month-old child who was present at one of the locations.

    According to the arrest reports, deputies served search warrants at houses in the 600 block of Charles Carrol Street and the 2800 block of Tanglewood Boulevard and a storage unit on Blanding Boulevard.

    The report said the labs were using a meth manufacturing method that is volatile and flammable.

    Charges included manufacturing methamphetamine in the presence of a minor, possession of chemicals used to manufacture meth, possession of meth and possession of drug paraphernalia. All three were booked into the Clay County jail.

    The infant found at the storage unit location was turned over to the custody of the Florida Department of Children and Families.

    *******

    Why those poor people are being persecuted! They can’t send them to jail they were just “working” to support their children. How dare CPS remove the child from their care, they need to FREE these people and immediately return their children to them! They have a RIGHT to break the law they have CHILDREN they need to support!

    (please notice sarcasm and tongue in cheek)

  514. DD1 the BACA rally is April 24th (not the 14th) meet at Cottonwood Park at 12 noon.

  515. Well Crap, LadySadie,, sorry,, your right,, Im battin a thousand today, LOL 🙂

  516. “Sigh…. I should really get crackin’ on writing my book. Anyone know how to get off a writer’s-block dime?”

    Well, if you’ve already started writing you can erase the last page you wrote and start rewriting it. Usually by the time you’ve reproduced it you’re back in the swing and able to go on strong. 🙂

  517. CW, you might like to view the newer ‘Blogroll’ website “Whatloveisthis” for Utah based Polygamy Ministry that broadcasts it’s show every Thursday or view the free program archive library. Many guests from the polygamy groups that have apostacized and testimony(s) of local field experts.

  518. BACA (Bikers Against Child Abuse) is a wonderful group.

    From their website:

    http://www.bacausa.com/

    “Bikers Against Child Abuse (BACA) exists with the intent to create a safer environment for abused children. We exist as a body of Bikers to empower children to not feel afraid of the world in which they live. We stand ready to lend support to our wounded friends by involving them with an established, united organization. We work in conjunction with local and state officials who are already in place to protect children. We desire to send a clear message to all involved with the abused child that this child is part of our organization, and that we are prepared to lend our physical and emotional support to them by affiliation, and our physical presence. We stand at the ready to shield these children from further abuse. We do not condone the use of violence or physical force in any manner, however, if circumstances arise such that we are the only obstacle preventing a child from further abuse, we stand ready to be that obstacle.”

  519. I am so glad this group has decided to get involved with protecting the FLDS children!

  520. Yep, although I’m with the others in feeling that one HUGE misstep was simply returning the children en mass.
    ——————————————————-
    I don’t think anyone thinking that the men are asking for a free pass because the children was return. Perhaps taken in the first place but not because they was returned. Oh btw. I’ve got dinged quite a bit in English because I sometimes get my subject/verb tense mixed. Get over it.

  521. Al

    What do you mean?

    The FLDS have 30 litigations ongoing and they are all begging for a free pass!

    DUDE!

    Their Merry Go-Round ride is OVER!

    Brass ring, FAIL!

  522. Wonder if someone can get Mike Watkiss or Ben Winslow to cover the BACA rally on April 24? I would love to see coverage of this wonderful event!

  523. Alin, I can overlook your grammatical foibles, it’s your scrambled ethical values and misogynistic beliefs that leaves me with a lowered opinion of you and there is just no easy way around either of those views.

  524. Hi Alin, my pseudo Baptist friend… or shall I call you Pliggy?

  525. CaJim, I watch Polygamy : What Love is This ? and sometimes I even call in to ask questions…

  526. Alinusara

    FU
    Love Fred

  527. “I don’t think anyone thinking that the men are asking for a free pass because the children was return. Perhaps taken in the first place but not because they was returned.”

    Have you ever heard about two wrongs not making a right? It would be a horrible injustice to those young girls and to other young “brides to be” to give the men a “free pass” on their sexual assaults for any reason barring the fact that they aren’t guilty. However, since they ARE guilty, the free pass thing is something no decent human being would even consider acceptable.

    “Oh btw. I’ve got dinged quite a bit in English because I sometimes get my subject/verb tense mixed. Get over it.”

    Are you a product of the FLDS school system too?

  528. Hi stalker.

  529. Al

    What do you mean?

    The FLDS have 30 litigations ongoing and they are all begging for a free pass!

    DUDE!
    =======================================
    Sorry my friend but I never said they was begging for a free pass. I stated that they was accused of asking for a free pass.

  530. Great to hear, CW. I envy your chance to call in and express yourself. I think this program is one of the better resources for modern polygamy issues in the SLC valley. I wish they had more presence in Saint George or Washington County where many of the needs originate. Do you know of any other comparable resource in So. Utah?

  531. Have you ever heard about two wrongs not making a right?
    =============================================
    Oh absolutely Rebeckah. So how would you go about fixing CPS wrongs? I’m sure you do not want to give them a free pass.

  532. CaJim,
    I don’t live in Utah, and I don’t know of any other resources.
    I call in on Thursday nights from the East Coast, at 10 pm our time, 8 pm Utah time when they are broadcasting in Utah live. I am friends with one of the producers. I then watch the program on the video archive the following week to see Doris’ response to my question.

  533. AL

    You were the one bringing up “Free pass” – my point is “YOU” and”THEY” are always looking for that loophole, or some other way to wiggle out of trouble which is pretty deep sewage.

    I’m sorry, if CPS makes a mistake here and there, it doesnt absolve all the crimes of perpetrators, these arent traffic tickets they are children who have been abused, you know, molested.

    I’m sure CPS makes corrections to proceedures all the time. I dont think they wanted to be faced with 75 neglected kids at once / oh is it 250? NO its 459 or so, they werent prepared for the numbers.

    Of course in the face of so many lies by Church leaders, the first thing will be loss of trust.

    Merril Jessop never told them the truth, and he hasnt even paid a dime toward supporting his eight children who were lucky enough to escape that life.

    He cant be trusted, Warren cant, I dont know if ANY OF THEM CAN BE TRUSTED.

  534. Alinusara ever hear of Erollisi Marr?

  535. any news from the courthouse?

  536. Alin, we are already quite aware that you are not open to learning new things, like the English you failed to correct in school.

  537. Oh Alinusara knows more than he lets on, right Alinusara?

  538. “Oh absolutely Rebeckah. So how would you go about fixing CPS wrongs? I’m sure you do not want to give them a free pass.”

    Actually, you’re right, I don’t. I was disappointed that the investigation didn’t really seem to look into any of the claimed wrongdoings (like the two girls getting fed wheat bread and having an allergic reaction to it). I think there should have been a good investigation, followed by appropriate penalties to anyone who treated the women and children with less than respect and measures put into place to prevent similar errors in the future. In fact, I think that should happen on a regular basis.

    However the goal here is the protection of children. Protection which these children recieved. It is particularly notable that there are girls on the YFZ ranch (and in the general area for those who haven’t returned yet) who have been spared coercion into a pretend and illegal union with an already married man and having their lives and their unborn children’s lives placed in danger from early pregnancy and childbirth.

  539. I couldn’t get on the Biker rally site since it said it was protected and I don’t have a wordpress account.

    Am I understanding this correctly – a bunch of bikers are going to have an anti-child abuse rally in Short Creek?

    Geez, I’d love to see that. Maybe someone can go and youtube it.

  540. Bety said: CPS also returned children to people who were not the biological nor legal parents; in at least one case the legal parent was trying to get custody and was ignored.
    —–
    And I NEVER understood this! How could CPS release the children to unauthorized people, who [apparently] had no documentation to prove they were theirs…unless that was part of the ‘stop investigating’ order. And WHY didn’t more real parents stepup to claim the little kidlettes? Yet another in a long line of mysteries surrounding this group.

  541. This is thier main website

    http://www.bacausa.com/Internet/AboutBACA.php

  542. U&I a lying alin’s grammar skills well reflect the 8th grade home schooled education of many flds members. LOL.

  543. April 24th is already booked for me, or I’d volunteer. I’d really like to see that. But, as a consolation prize, I can always make a donation.

  544. Like Ron, I’d love to see a video if it’s being done right there in the crick. Man, I sure wish I still had my good old Honda. Nobody would recognize me in my biker leathers!

  545. Maybe I should give money to hope.org for every time Alinusara uses the verb “was” incorrectly. I could give it 50 cent a pop. That could really add up over time, you know, I am on a fixed income.

  546. BACA does take donations, and you can even specify which chapter you want the donation to go to.

    http://www.bacausa.com/Internet/Merchandise.php

    Use the drop down menu to pick which chapter.

    They have a San Antonio Chapter wonder if we can contact them and see if we can get a showing for Merril Leroy’s trial?

  547. Great idea – they should make a showing at ALL the trials! I dont think bikers like abusive uptight racist child molesters very much, just thinking.

    Get them some good high profile press too.

  548. AND they know who FLDS are, or know someone who knows.

  549. I am just amazed that BACA is going to do a run through the Creek. I had one put together 5 years ago and then they chickened out and canceled it.

    The local BACA chapter and Zion Harley were all for it, then they changed their minds. I couldn’t believe what wimps they were.

    I wonder what FINALLY inspired them? I should make some phone calls and see.

  550. So far the creek’s been UNTOUCHABLE, hasn’t it? Political $$ generator, not counting blood.

  551. Yeah Uncle,
    I agree with you that local politics were involved in their canceling the ride for the kids.

  552. Betty said: CPS also returned children to people who were not the biological nor legal parents; in at least one case the legal parent was trying to get custody and was ignored.

    Betty that is a myth.

  553. catwhisperer said this on March 12, 2010 at 8:24 AM

    I’ll send him a kudo then Ron. Thanks for your post.

    ============================================================

    Know any one who does psychoanalysis? They could probably help you out with the meaning of this slip.

    Here’s a hint look up narcissistic.

  554. Betty is correct. You don’t need to know how I know and you don’t need to pull that wool.

  555. Here’s another “I was just following God’s orders” Utah polygamy nutcase –

    Convicted killer Ronald Lafferty seeks another mental competency review

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700016103/Convicted-killer-Ronald-Lafferty-seeks-another-mental-competency-review.html

  556. How many FLDS will be moving to the new Schleicher County site now and how many will be returning? They appear to have paid out the kazoo for the Griffin testimony and farm.

  557. Interesting story in Deseret News.

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700016074/Cheryl-Maher-says-Kevin-Garn-lied-about-hot-tub-contact.html

    She said she does not want to talk about specifics because she wants the focus not on Garn’s actions but on “the devastation of my life because of sexual abuse that happens to so many.”

    She was 15. He was 28 and married. He was also her Sunday school teacher.

  558. Stupid? Entitlement?

  559. Mary Kay,
    FU
    Love
    Fred.

  560. Mary Kay,
    FU – go look up paranoid and stupid,
    Love
    Fred.

  561. yes uncle thread, betty is correct about the children going to people other than biological parents. it’s sad really.

  562. Gosh Rebeckah, the admin here changed my posts.

    Remember the fit you had when Bill changed your post?

    Let’s see your hypocritical values in action this time.

  563. No, admins here don’t “change your posts”. If you break rules and your post needs altered we’ll all be advised of that and you may not even get a first let alone second opportunity to do the right thing.

    You’re aware of that other lying place. You lying hypocrite.

  564. Know what Malicia, I don’t like you. All you want is negative attention. That’s not a good thing.

  565. I’ve been saying for months that 40mk is a classic passive-aggressive. She will do anything for attention, even though it is negative. Lies, twisted logic, lack of responsibility. Need I say more?

  566. Sorry I’ve been away, is there any update from the proceedings Friday at the courthouse?
    Thanks

  567. Maybe Mary KAy 40sumpthin got pissed when the teachers changed her grades to an “F” and told her “School is not for you”

    GASP

    I wonder why they would say that..?

  568. Cat, this is where I’ve been following the proceedings…
    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/news/local/FLDS/

    …the latest being:
    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/mar/12/flds-trial-rangers-give-details-of-raid-on-yfz/

  569. Anon at 8:12 PM said “Betty that is a myth”. Well, pardon me if I don’t believe Anonymous with no background information. Facts, please? Your source of information?

  570. Thanks, Uncle Thread.

  571. Here’s another “I was just following God’s orders” Utah polygamy nutcase –

    Convicted killer Ronald Lafferty seeks another mental competency review

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700016103/Convicted-killer-Ronald-Lafferty-seeks-another-mental-competency-review.html
    ………………

    Yup. The Lafferty Brothers, incensed that their brother’s wife opposed their “real Mormons practice polygamy” philosphy so they blood atoned her by slitting her throat. And her baby girl too.

  572. yes uncle thread, betty is correct about the children going to people other than biological parents. it’s sad really.

    ……………….

    How many children were sent to the ranch without their mothers? I read about Warren telling some of the women they weren’t among the chosen and would stay behind – but their kids would go without them.

    Gosh, where was MaryKay/40something with all her indignity when THOSE children were taken from their mothers?

  573. She only posts to be malicious.

  574. warren sent a lot of his own children without their biological mothers, and remember ellen grace young had 2 daughters there with babs and merril. one was told to stop asking when she wanted to know where her mother was.

    wonder where ellen grace/grace ellen is now and where her small children are. she had several young sons along with those 2 girls. a couple of her older sons wised up and got out of the cult.

  575. I don’t know why anyone responds to MaryKay, et al; by definition, s/he is a troll:

    “…derived from the fishing technique of slowly dragging a lure or baited hook from a moving boat, waiting for fish [suckers] to strike.”

    Maybe it’s just for fun?

  576. Yes Malicia does it for a sick gratification. Probably goes to fires and car wrecks too. With popcorn and a big soda.

  577. I think she is hiding behind a bigger agenda behind the scenes.

    Whatever the case, IGNORE works well.

  578. I agree with Swissiemom. I’m thinking some traumatic experience in childhood. But still, I try to avoid getting sucked into the vortex of crazy.

  579. I noticed during the discussion on proving the age of L. Jeffs recently that quite a few of the victims were living with step fathers, not biological fathers. So one way to get 15 year old girls for sex slaves is to seperate them from any male protector who cares about them.

  580. I agree with SwissieMom: IGNORE

    Betty, “…one way to get 15 year old girls for sex slaves is to seperate them from any male protector who cares about them.”

    You’ve hit on a very cogent point!

    A mitigating factor, however: from the cradle, we learned that we all belonged to priesthood/god… not our biological parents. Something innate in me just couldn’t buy into that once I became a parent myself. I’m sure that has to be lurking within those parents on some level too. Separation early on would be an effective strategy to help staunch that.

  581. East,
    Thanks for the link

  582. i’d like to think that betty, but l.jeffs father didn’t protect older sister janet from ernest. he was present at the celestial marriage.

  583. Seems to me that removing the natural parents and introducing a pre-teenage stepfather who becomes the ‘Child Brides’ future Priesthood husband is one strategy. Removing the girl from her extended family siblings, except an older/younger female sibling, is yet another ploy. The recent formation of secure enclaves, removed from any ‘apostate’ family members, and secured from outside influences seems to seal the chances of any outside influences or extended family members.

    A very concerning escalation of manipulation that stacks the control into FLDS leadership’s ‘One Man Rule’ mentality. “Keeping Sweet” these days means further isolation, more secured enclaves and less means of resistance at the ‘Lands of Refuge’. The suggested wording for the proposed Texas Heritage Trust is another proof of this trend toward greater physical, financial and legal controls. Very much like Reverend Jimmy Jones People’s Temple and outside isolation to control or entrap the membership. No responsible State or County government would welcome such obvious civil right violations within their boundaries under some misplaced claims of ‘Freedom of Religion’.

  584. that anon post @11:47 was me, for some reason my name had been removed from the form.

  585. i’d like to think that betty, but l.jeffs father didn’t protect older sister janet from ernest. he was present at the celestial marriage.

    Not to mention that her father “received” a 14-year-old wife at the 7-22-2004 triple-play himself. His child bride went on to become the victim in Allen Keate’s charge.

  586. Please go to Discussion #29

    The Trial resumes Monday!

    https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2010/03/13/open-discussion-29/

  587. Just catching up on reading the posts on the different threads here…. so this post is going to be behind the current topic. Please forgive me.

    E. Texas, I don’t remember which thread it was on where you said you need to write a book but don’t know where to start. (I have slept since then) I am not a writer or anything even close to it so I will not claim to have any knowledge of how to start or write a book. This is just a suggestion.

    I enjoy reading your insightful posts about the knowledge you possess about this group and the life you have lived. I know you don’t want to expose a lot of personal details online so in a private program where you can keep your thoughts to yourself until you’re ready to release them, why not use some of the info you have already written, (your blog posts), as individual topics and expand on them, adding more details to them as you think of things to say about the subject. And as you read and blog online and think of different things that have affected your life, start a new private individual story/chapter. Then after a while, take all the different writings you have written, put them into some kind of order, fill in the gaps that may occur with more details and combine them into a book. If you find you don’t know how to go about combining the writings, perhaps someone with that kind of knowledge could help you to achieve that goal. I would love to read it when it’s done. It’s always uplifting to read about someone successfully breaking free of a life that is harmful to themselves and their children. Kudos to you.

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