Open Discussion #27

Continued from Open Discussion #26

Next up to Trial on March 8,  Leroy “She’s 18, Ociffer” Jessop

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on February 24, 2010.

498 Responses to “Open Discussion #27”

  1. “Remember Johnny Nicholson”

    Send info tips to ‘www.outofpolygamy.com’

    HELP with Justice For Johnny

  2. Good find CaJim, I hadnt seen that site before!

  3. That’s a horrid story, about Johnny.

  4. Stamp, I would, also, suggest Doris Hanson’s website http://www.whatloveisthis.tv and the library of her archive programs, select ‘Online Episodes’ tab to view a 2009 year program # 2.39 episode, aired on 01 October, 2009. Johnny Nicholson’s death and the circumstances surrounding his demise need to be released to family members and persons with information about that tragedy need to witness to the Truth, anonymously or otherwise. Contact information and details can be sent to :

    ‘www.outofpolygamy.com’

  5. The Pilot, who flies out of Schliecher County Airport in Eldorado, TX has posted new photos of YFZ on his website. Of interest is several new homes have been constructed or are under construction, several large ponds, apperently part of a sewage plant, what looks like lots of new construction, land clearing with lots of construction equipment in use. The Temple appears to be receiving repairs, with construction equipment on site, appears the grounds are being kept up. I’m no engineer, but sewage plant-ponds appear to be large enough to serve community much larger than nearby Eldorado, TX. Perhaps if Chemist is out there he could comment.

    Also YFZ has new neighbors, wind-turbines.

    http://web.sccn2.net/flds/01-04-10.htm

    THe FLDS must think they are safe from possibility of losing YFZ to Wisan or Carolyn Jessop who might claims assets of YFZ, question remains, why build when there is strong chance that YFZ could be seized by Wisan or Jessop to settle claims and judgements?

  6. THe FLDS must think they are safe from possibility of losing YFZ to Wisan or Carolyn Jessop who might claims assets of YFZ, question remains, why build when there is strong chance that YFZ could be seized by Wisan or Jessop to settle claims and judgements?

    Probably about the only thing that could endanger YFZ is Wisan/UEP. The FLDS have learned from the UEP. The whole deal with LLC’s is to insulate the assets of the LLC from claims against the members. So, anyone can sue a high ranking FLDS member and it would be next to impossible to reach the assets in YFZ, LLC.

  7. So, anyone can sue a high ranking FLDS member and it would be next to impossible to reach the assets in YFZ, LLC.
    —————————-
    But isn’t it possible that if Wisan can prove that assets were diverted from the UEP to help purchase/build the YFZ then it can be put into the trust.

  8. i love the title.

    leroy is the one i want to see behind bars for that statement alone. he knew he was in big time trouble and tried to lie his way out of it.

  9. i’ve been reading some of the dictations and find that warren used sleep deprivation to help control people. after looking into it, it is used by a lot of cult leaders to keep people in line.

  10. Criminal enterprises will commit resources to circumvent all laws in order to preserve their lawless activities and continue their crime waves. There isn’t anything new in any of the activities like contesting court rulings/decisions, arguing for tax exemptions, building a campus to conduct their operations, maintaining leadership while indicted/incarcerated and crossing borders between States and/or International locales to prevent unwelcomed government or law enforcement actions.
    Bootleggers in Chicago’s Mob scene in the Roaring 20s conducted similar organizational and covert dealings in order to defend the Underworld rackets.

    The resumed construction and development of the YFZ Raunch is attributable to the lighter than expected verdict given to Raymond Jessop and the failure to enact a Federal Task Force to redress this expanding gangland syndicate.

    The recent exodus of active FLDS members from Short Creek, the failing legal defensive attempts and the mounting felony convictions indicate that the ship of state is floundering. The future exit strategy(s) may prove to be in Canada/Mexico but the trend-lines in Texas & Utah points to a tightening set of negative circumstances beyond the FLDS leadership’s abilities to stop or control.

  11. But isn’t it possible that if Wisan can prove that assets were diverted from the UEP to help purchase/build the YFZ then it can be put into the trust.

    Yes, that’s why I said about all they have to worry about is Wisan. However, they’ve got him so tied up litigating other things he has little time to try to trace assets.

  12. It took me months to read all the stuff at UEPtrust documents page. Mr Wisan has done exactly what he was appointed to do. I think it sucks that the media has allowed FLDS to tarnish his name and his responsibilties he was given in charge of when the trust was taken from Flds.
    Mr Wisan, got not ONE ounce of cooperation from DAY 1. He made many efforts to discuss what was going on to those in flds and was given a deaf ear.

    I also think its a damn shame, that Flds or the court feels Mr Wisan shouldnt have been paid for all the hours he put in to saving the trust from law suits etc. He went through legal means to gain access of records etc, because not ONE person would cooperate with him or the position he was assigned to.

  13. Not necessarily true Ron on the LLC’s.. documents filed by Flds llc’s have been sued by IRS for not paying withholding taxes on their employees.. some of which have had judgements against them

  14. If WS Jeffs is supposed to die Pioneer Day this year, it may be that Wisan is similarly set up.

  15. who said WS Jeffs is supposed to die Pioneer Day??

  16. Ron, I would agree, had they kept the ranch in an LLC – except they have attempted to move it into a Texas common-law trust.

    There are several problems with that, the first being is that there are no common-law trusts in Texas…

  17. oh hahaha heehee

  18. thank God texas is brighter than other states about trusts!

  19. I’m glad The Pilot took some new pictures. His bird’s eye view is always eye opening! He seems to be the only one with an unfettered access to yfz….at least until someone there tries to sue him for violating their ‘sacred’ airspace!! Keep on flying Pilot!!

  20. I am trying to figure out who the man is in the portrait hanging on the wall in the latest Nat Geo photos ellie linked to in OD #26. Here is the photo – it is number 9 in the series:
    http://www.poyi.org/67/CAA/first_09.php

    Warren is in the middle; looks like Rulon on the right; Leroy Johnson in the left smaller portrait on the bottom and then Joseph Smith to the right of him. Who is the guy on the left of the same wall as Warren?

    I would guess the guy on the very left wall that is hard to see would be John Y. Barlow.

    So, obviously, these are prophets. I just can’t guess who the one left of Warren is.

    Anybody know? E.Texas, do you know who that is?

  21. The caption says, “Bob and Nancy Barlow with their children and other nieces and nephews at the YFZ ranch.”

    That’s certainly not a picture of one the prophets. Don’t “know” Bob, but it looks to me like a picture of Bob himself (perhaps a bit younger). He is the leader of his family and therefore he who must be obeyed within his household.

  22. The photograph is both beautiful and eerie. I couldn’t figure out why it was eerie at first, until I realized that none of the family members are making eye contact or touching each other.

    Our family photos look like pig piles on the couch – everybody crammed in with arms around each other. My 23 year old daughter still likes to sit in my lap.

    And too bad that Nat Geo did not continue with their description to include the FACT that 3 men so far have been convicted of child abuse, and 9 more trials are upcoming.

  23. PS Anonymouse 6:26 is me, Anon E Mouse. Sorry!

  24. Anonymous! Sorry again, can’t spell.

  25. Bob & Nancy Barlow are the parents of Allen Keate’s victim!!!

  26. Oh, puke.

  27. If I had them for parent’s I couldn’t look at them either.

  28. See ANY YVZ personas

  29. The man in the picture on the left in the Bob Barlow house is Edson Porter Jessop

  30. “Bob & Nancy Barlow are the parents of Allen Keate’s victim!!!”

    — a fact that the National Geographic left out of their article and the photo captions.

    Some other facts about “Bob” Barlow that you will not read in the National Geographic —

    He is a full brother to Dale Evans Barlow, a convicted sex offender.

    http://www.childbrides.org/sex_KDM_Barlow_sentence_45_days.html

    He is a half-brother to Dan Barlow, Jr., another sex offender.

    http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy448.html

    It is true that he is not responsible for the sex offenses committed by his brothers.

    However, “Bob” himself was charged with a sex offense in Mohave County, Arizona. He was acquitted by a jury.

    Unlike Texas, in Arizona the venue (where the crime took place) of the crime is an element of the offense and must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

    His defense was able to raise reasonable doubt as to whether the offense took place in the state of Arizona or not.

    http://www.childbrides.org/sex_KDM_Barlow_found_not_guilty.html

    His acquittal on the Mohave County charge does not change the fact that on 3-11-1999 he married a girl who was 16 at the time or the fact that she gave birth to her first child when she was 17.

  31. “Bob & Nancy Barlow are the parents of Allen Keate’s victim!!!”

    A fact that the National Geographic left out of their article and the photo captions.

    Some other facts about “Bob” Barlow that are also not included in the National Geographic.

    He is a full brother to Dale Evans Barlow, a convicted sex offender.

    http://www.childbrides.org/sex_KDM_Barlow_sentence_45_days.html

    He is a half-brother to Dan Barlow, Jr., another sex offender.

    http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy448.html

    It is true that he is not responsible for the criminal sex offenses committed by his brothers.

    However, “Bob” himself was charged with a sex offense in Mohave County, Arizona. He was acquitted by a jury.

    Unlike Texas, in Arizona the venue (where the crime took place) of the crime is an element of the offense and must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

    His defense was able to raise reasonable doubt as to whether the offense took place in the state of Arizona or not.

    http://www.childbrides.org/sex_KDM_Barlow_found_not_guilty.html

    His acquittal on the Mohave County charge does not change the fact that on 3-11-1999 he married a girl who was 16 at the time or the fact that she gave birth to her first child when she was 17.

  32. DD

    Yeah, the IRS – they’re not like any other claimant. Still the only way the IRS could reach property in YFZ, LLC is if they have a claim against YFZ, LLC and not against one of the principals.

    Blues

    I remember seeing the trust documents; however, I assumed they were going to try to move only certain pieces of property into that trust in order to get property tax relief.

    Have there actually been any recorded transfers (i.e. anything in the deed records?)

  33. donald robert barlow allred aka bob barlow has 27 children and 28 stepchildren. keate’s victim has a sister 18 months younger than she is who appears to have been spared.

  34. The man in the picture on the left in the Bob Barlow house is Edson Porter Jessop

    uselesspromoter said this on February 24, 2010 at 8:29 PM

    Thanks uselesspromoter, I thought I recognized this face, and I appreciate your putting a name to it.

    I didn’t think it was Bob Barlow, as E Texas said (no offense E.Texas) because the “comb over” was totally wrong.

    So why is Edson Porter Jessop’s portrait dressed in typical “prophet” garb of white shirt and white tie hanging on the same wall as past and present portraits of FLDS prophets?

    Warren has a HUGE issue with “false prophets”. (Little hypocrite that he is)

    What does this mean?

    This really makes me curious.

  35. Anon,
    No offense taken, pure dumb guesswork on my part. Shoulda stayed in lurk mode on that one… so there again I’m singing that refrain:
    ♪”Oh no, I’ve said too much.” ♫

    In spite of some thoughts on your next question, I’m going to keep quiet and wait for someone else’s good answer.

    Thanks from me too uselesspromoter… Oh, and I really like your handle.

  36. Maybe Edson Porter Jessop is in the
    First Presidency.

    That a scary thought….

  37. So Leroys pretrial is today right?

  38. who cares, they should all be locked up

  39. Petey,

    As far as I know Wendell and Merril are still the First Presidency with Warren.

    I presume you are referring to Edson Porter Jessop, Jr. — the portrait is his father, Edson Porter Jessop, Sr. who is deceased.

    Then again, maybe Warren is also getting visits from his ghost and has elevated him posthumously to past prophet status.

    It is interesting as to why that portrait would be displayed among the past prophets. As far as I’m aware, Edson Porter Jessop is not in Bob Barlow’s ancestral line.

  40. Are you sure the picture isn’t LeRoy Johnson?

  41. Leroy Johnson was prophet before Rulon Jeffs was.

  42. dd1 — Yes, Leroy’s pretrial hearing is this morning at 10:00 am in Judge Walther’s courtroom in San Angelo.

    My understanding is that Leroy Jessop’s Bad Acts will be available here in the next couple of days.

    There is an article in this week’s Eldorado Success that gives us some of the highlights of his Bad Boy Acts —

    – Leroy’s “you are 18” attempt to hide the fact that the victim in this case was underage.

    – He tried to remove evidence from his computer, including evidence directly related to the victim.

    – He told a medical provider that he was the victim’s uncle (he isn’t) when she was receiving some medical off the YFZ premises.

    There’s a nice photo of Leroy and his father Merril on the front page.

    The photo is in between the article on Leroy’s upcoming trial and another front page article on Merril the Deadbeat Dad covering the results of the child support order signed earlier this week by Judge Walther.

  43. I’m sure the protrait photo isn’t Leroy Johnson. Uncle Roy’s photo is just below and to the right of that photo on the same line as Joseph Smith’s.

    I’ve seen several photographs of Edson Porter Jessop, Sr. and it does look to be him as Anonymous 11:22 noted.

    Curious thing, for sure.

  44. maybe one of robert’s wives is a daughter or granddaughter of edson sr.

  45. That’s an aspect I’m going to take a look at, PT.

    Still, the placement on the wall with the prophets is curious as is the traditional white tie.

  46. well someone call up ole zavanda and ask her.

  47. I can’t say for sure why, but the ditty “ask me no more secrets and I’ll tell you no more lies” just played through my head, PT.

  48. Wawl!! Lets just ring up Ole Warren and ask him!! LOL 🙂

  49. I’m not sure Warren has phone access. Zavanda was whining about her cell phone being taken away, so I’m assuming she does. Otherwise I would have suggested Warren.

    I figured since Zavanda is one of Edson Sr.’s daughter-in-laws, she might know.

  50. Maybe we could email the picture to the jail and get someone to ask him.

  51. I don’t really care who he is,, Just another Preditor hanging on a wall, that ignorant people worship, beside rulon and Warren and all the rest.

  52. It’s the only picture frame with gold on it. The rest are brown.

  53. My name is Alexa and I’m a graduate student at UT Austin writing about the FLDS presence in Texas. If the moderator or creator of this blog would please contact me for my piece, I’d really appreciate it. My email address is agarciaditta@gmail.com

    Thanks so much.

  54. It looks like Lyle

  55. Bob & Nancy Barlow are the parents of Allen Keate’s victim!!!
    ——-
    It scares me that those two have faced no consequences after trading an underage daughter for the favor of the rich elite and a chance to live on holy scrubland in Texas.

    Join the FLDS: get away with anything!

  56. The picture on the wall is actually Hugh.

    Just kidding. No offense meant to anyone.

  57. i checked and bob barlow doesn’t even have a wife who is a jessop. his first wife nancy, mother of the keate victim, is the granddaughter of Uncle Roy (Leroy Sunderland Johnson).

  58. i just read mudpuppy’s blog and he’s got 3 victims of jessop men all mixed up. does he really want us to believe he’s talking to the ranch. surely they know which girl should do a “victim’s impact statement” for the leroy jessop trial.

  59. I believe that he talks to the ranch like I believe that he buys donuts from a shop that no longer exists. Actually, I’m beginning to believe that he drinks heavily during the day. His repost of a bit about ‘genocide’ from two years ago, complete with comments from two years ago was downright bizarre, along with his claim that the last two years have proven that he’s on the side of all that’s right and good; of course he offers no explanation for that claim and doesn’t mention any convictions for sexual assault.

  60. No problem, Walton. Just don’t mention his wife, that seems to upset everyone for some reason.

  61. I know Betty and I probably shouldn’t have said what I did. I was trying to be funny. It didn’t work. If anyone was offended I am sorry.

  62. Oh geez, I guess narcissism knows no bounds. Huge McEgo is at it again.

    At the Leroy Jessop pretrial, Eric Nichols wanted the defense to approach the judge before bringing up media reports.

    Nichols said:

    This prevents lawyers from pulling up a newspaper article, magazine article or blog post

    Hugh thinks since he mentions blog posts that he MUST be talking about him. Um, right, Hugh, the defense has used your site extensively getting all those important trial tips.

  63. Ron — I’ve seen Hugh do this before; it’s a head scratcher

  64. the way i’m reading it, it’s probably about truth will prevail’s posts about stuff which are total and complete lies. it could also be about national geographic’s stuff. hugh and mudpuppy, i doubt it.

  65. From the picture in the Eldorado Success, Leroy has lost a LOT of weight. Merril appears to be chastising him. Leroy is not one of Merril’s favorites.

  66. Since The Hugh Mungus McEgo has been quoted as saying the FLDS are a “Satanic Religion” and then sprinkled the internet with many additional disrespects on them, I would think the prosecution uses his blog posts before the defense does!

    Yeah, and have you seen the huge following of FLDS on his Blog? he he he

    Nary a soul. Ghost town. zip nada zilch. But hey, he blogs, therefore it must mean him!

    LOL

    no

    ROTFLMAO

  67. i’ll bet rich is a favorite, he stayed out of jail.

  68. I think that’s a very telling insight into what makes him tick, that we should keep in mind here.

    I think it’s much more likely that they are talking about Brooke’s blog and the slant of headlines, etc. There are also law discussion blogs that have posted opinions on the raid, but are not solely devoted to they topic. They don’t want spin or opinion to become testimony in the minds of the jurors.

  69. I think they should talk about the poll on Brookes blog, she’s had up for a couple months now, ha ha

    Most people voted the FLDS should plead guilty and save everyone time and money.

    THAT would be a good talking point despite her other threads.

    But really, you’re right, I think its just a blanket media blackout to keep spin out and facts in.

  70. “I think that’s a very telling insight into what makes him tick, that we should keep in mind here.”

    Yeah, I wonder where he thinks he was sourced by the FLDS for ANYTHING. The internet is a big place giving them lots of opportunity.

    BUT he does have a lot of drive by traffic looking at his train wreck.

  71. Are “McWhatsIsName” and “Mudpuppy” one and the same? Whatever, they sure seem to garner a lot of attention here.
    I’m sadly? / gladly? out of the loop whenever y’all discuss those sites. Haven’t read them; maybe I should make the effort for the sake of balance? Or… perhaps I’m just lucky?

  72. Well, what I meant was, he’s turned on by being the center of attention, so let’s NOT indulge him by talking about him!

  73. Etexas

    Your LUCKY, its not pretty at McWho?ville. On both sites, you would just see an old fart on a soapbox ranting and raving. Occassionally they offer unintended entertainment, but mostly its like looking at dents in cars.

  74. Stamps right- ultimately they’re just rant sites. Hugh’s site definitely has a “train wreck” type curiosity to it. From him becoming a registered lobbyist (and raising maybe $100?) for polygamy to his fight to reform an orthodox church, it’s certainly got a lot of “rubber neck” potential.

    About 1/2 of Medvecky’s rant is anti-CPS stuff. In my book, he does have some merit. Bad stuff happens to kids in foster care and he cherry picks those cases where really bad stuff happens. CPS does deserve scrutiny but it’s not the all evil entity that Medvecky tries to make it out to be.

    Anyway, I find it interesting to try to understand the thought patterns of those who go along with their rants.

  75. Used to take an interest in Bill’s site until it got so rank and he became so obsessed with the evil CPS cause.

  76. Ron

    Of course, no one wants children harmed, although too frequently it happens, even in loving families.

    Bill mixes his rants so badly, you cant tell if the child is safer with the state or the parent or who he is advocating – some of his followers have even called him on it.

    So I see his site as just a “I HATE CPS” rant site, because he was incarcerated because of problems with them he brought upon himself.

    Oddly, he attracts many in the child protection business, but I think they are drive bys mostly and dont understand his real foundation of frustration.

    But its funny to watch someone driving drunk on the internet and the WTF!? moments it provides.

    Well, funny to some, like us.

    :mrgreen:

  77. Ron, you are right about the CPS deserving scrutiny but it isnt always the evil entity as portrayed in Bill’s rantings any more than the flds people, in general, are all users, molesters and con artists. But the leadership sure does need a purging.

  78. anon

    Hmmm Health Care is on the agenda next week. How long have all the Kings men and all the Kings horses been trying to put this together?

    Just pointing out that there are bigger fish frying and we will likely continue to see successes and tragedies in the lives of children.

    A neighbor raises his grandson. His daughter OD’ed. He inherited 9 million dollars last week. I’m not convinced the child’s life looks bright.

  79. Weird , how we always hear the horror stories of foster care, but never the successes. I have several families Ive known for years who have been taking children from birth to 16yrs old into their home, just because they love children, so far everyone of them have either gone on to college, or they are successful in business. They were never picky about the age or color of any foster child’s skin, just wanted to provide a loving home enviroment, and care for the children.

    This is what alienates me from Medvecky’s site. He is a cruel, rude, sadistic man.

  80. On top of that he is just using the FLDS as cannon fodder. Funny, now that its found these men were molesting young girls, he hasnt said squat about THAT.

    On more than one occasion people have noted “Well those parents arent worthy of children apparently” but it falls on deaf ears.

    I guess to him children are just little slaves no matter how screwed up the parent is.

  81. DD, it’s horrible whenever a child is murdered or dies from neglect. But the vast majority of child deaths are the fault of the PARENTS, and of those, most are the fault of the father. Lots of statistics out there to back that up. But when Mudpucky reports it, it is always either CPS, foster parents or an evil mother. The fathers are NEVER wrong in his world view.

    Facts need not apply.

  82. Yeah, I havent seen one post of his on “Shaken baby syndrome” and how many infants die or are injured from that.

    Bill, the myopic cyclops is obsessed with CPS.

  83. DD

    I call it the “McDonald’s coffee” phenomenon. See, if you get on some position like “lawsuit abuse” or “CPS abuse” what you do is pick one case out of millions and go “See, I told you.”

    There are excellent foster parents, there are also very poor ones. But, heck, that’s like everything in life – there is good and bad.

  84. Stamp

    I’m not sure that he’s outright said it, but it’s pretty clear from his defense of both Alamo and the FLDS that Medvecky feels that if your religion says you can have sex with young girls then it’s discrimination to try to stop you.

  85. I just know when a dog has rabies and is foaming at the mouth, they are put down.. Doesnt that apply to maniac’s like medvecky? the man lost the last brain cell he had years ago evidently

  86. I don’t beleive for ONE second Medvecky has any kind of religion, or for that matter any soul. He hates Law enforcement regardless which ones, because he got caught molesting his 12yr old disabled foster child. The man is one scarey human being and needs to be locked up

  87. Ron

    Thats a great point – his advocacy of the Alamo parents to keep their children regardless of their reckless and neglectful actions points to the fact he doesnt care about the children – he just wants to rant against CPS.

    And that Alamo hearing he was going to but didnt make and the FLDS trial he was going to and didnt make either.

    Too drunk to fall out the front door, evidently. But hey, its the thought that matters right? “Keep those kiddies on the RANCH so they can see Dad go to prison!”

  88. BTW that brings up a point -did the SCOT want the kids back on the ranch so they could get a civics lesson and see daddy go to prison for molesting those girls?

    Hmmmmmm – kinda cruel and unusual punishment, but its the kind of education you dont get just anywhere.

    So those homeschool teachers must have some stock answers to tell little Merril and Myrtle where daddy is going for 10 or 30 years.

    Purgatory!

  89. Uhh… Purgatory is the jail in Washington County Utah. 😉

  90. I took a quick look at those websites… and… mmm… well… geeze! I just don’t have the time!

    My issues with all things FLDS – from my own perspective, all the human relationships that implies, as well as the legal and logical aspects I’m interested in – are all the craziness I choose to indulge in for now.

    I can’t see the benefit for me – not saying there’s none there – but I think my time can be better spent. So, yeah, I guess I’m lucky. ☺
    Thanks for all the inputs.

  91. The man in the photo you are talking about is definitely Edson Jessop Sr.. I knew him well.

  92. ETexan

    And thats OK – there is more than enough peripheral madness. Some of it provides humor, and knowing where particular posters come from and thier background provides insight on how to address their talking points.

    Other sites like txbluesman.wordpress.com -TBM – and fldslegal.blogspot.com – Ron – are excellent to not only get their perspective but they pose legal realities the FLDS struggle with.

    So if you wander, you would rather go there.

  93. Anonymous 11:46,

    Any ideas on why his photo would be displayed on the wall with the prophets?

  94. Aspiring for position perhaps?

    “Look at me! Put me up there with the other gangstah’s!”

  95. HAHAHAHA stamp!!! 🙂

  96. HA HA HA

    Just saw the Huge McLemming, too bad McLemming, you dont have any other lemmings to run with, so its solo for the Vermont McLemster.

    Hey, but he’s got $83.34 in polygyny fund raising money, if anyone wants dinner and a movie. Might have to skip the movie though!

  97. DD

    Mac wants to put his pic up there too, but they wont answer the gate at ZipperDale!

  98. HAHAHAHA!!!! Stamp, you bad, you so bad,,,, lol

  99. About doodiehat thinking all blogs must mean “him”. Oftimes schizophrenics I’ve spoken with think they’re getting special messages from radio, tv, satellites, whatnot. Could be blogs, too. Heh.

  100. Interesting OftenLate – maybe he does believe they’re talking to him…

  101. AHHH so thats the big push for polygyny – putting bodies with all those voices?

  102. Appears the FLDS lawyers are already whining about how their client Merril Leroy Jessop, 35, is treated, they are also trying to claiming the old search warrant was invalid.

    From San Angelo paper: http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/feb/25/lawyers-spar-in-hearing/

    Also be sure to vote in poll if the defendant can receive a fair trial.

  103. Polyandry at least makes sense.

  104. IMO ole Merril Leroy is guilty, if his lawyers were smart they would do the old plea bargin, but don’t think they are, bet the jury gives him more than 33 years.

  105. i think a san angelo jury will be much harder than the eldorado jury was. even if merril is younger and closer in age to his victim than keate, i’m voting for at least 33 years.

  106. I wouldn’t be certain that SA jurists wouldn’t go easier.

  107. i tend to doubt it eleanor.

  108. ‘Angelo is a college town; that means a lot of young folk get liberal indoctrination and reinforcement.

  109. San Angelo isnt shy about convicting those who commit sexual assaults on minor eleanor

  110. That is certainly true. Hopefully Prosecution can keep the jurors focused.

  111. most of the young college students don’t have driver’s license with angelo addresses and/or registered to vote here. there are few who are called to jury duty and they have a built in exemption being a college student.

    and asu isn’t all that liberal. austin and san marcus are liberal, angelo, not so much.

  112. Fosterkid there still likes to play liberal but paying for a house, close to retirement on job, maybe.

  113. Going back to an earlier comment on Discussion 27, re: The Pilots new pics… “Of interest is several new homes have been constructed or are under construction.”
    Does this mean more families have been found to be worthy enough to be moved to yfz, or have the wives and children of the newly convicted been redistributed and more room is needed for them?

  114. Anyone here have the bucks to spring for this entire article from the Arizona Capitol Times?

    Goddard investigating Colorado City

    By Yellow Sheet Report

    Published: February 26, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    Attorney General Terry Goddard has filed a sweeping records request with Colorado City, and the manager of the town best known for its polygamous residents is accusing the AG of going on a politically inspired witch hunt.

    The request was filed in January and asks for communications of Colorado City and Hildale, Utah, officials and law enforcement regarding United Effort Plan trust lands, and a smorgasbord of records on incidents of vandalism, trespassing, and other affronts involving prominent families in the town.

    Goddard’s office is keeping mum on the purpose of the request, other than its relation to an ongoing court dispute in Utah over management of UEP land in Hildale and Colorado City. But, his partner in fighting polygamy, Utah AG Mark Shurtleff, has made no secret of his threat to disincorporate Hildale if the lingering fight isn’t settled. Terrill Johnson, mayor of Colorado City, wrote the League of Arizona Cities and Towns this month claiming Goddard has “threatened to disincorporate the town or remove the local government from the control of the people.” The AG’s Office would not comment on the allegation.

    To read more on this item plus all the stories in the Feb. 25 Yellow Sheet Report, go to http://www.yellowsheetreport.com (Yellow Sheet Subscription Required).

  115. Oh, by the way, the honorable Terrill Johnson, Mayor of Colorado City, Arizona was charged with 8 misdemeanors for registering 8 of of his personal vehicles in the state of Utah when he actually lived on the Arizona side of Uzona Avenue.

    It is less expensive to register vehicles in Utah than it is to register vehicles in Arizona.

    But spitting distance across the street doesn’t count when the spit is across state lines.

    However, I guess the honorable Mayor of Colorado City, Arizona Terrill Johnson was not being paid enough money to legally and honestly register his 8 vehicles in Arizona (where he and his cars resided) and decided to cheat and lie (OH NO!) I was only lying for the Lord!

  116. Good finds Anon, aint it amazing, illegal acts in government?

    How do they expect the regular people in town to behave?

    Oh, I guess they dont!

  117. Which wife of Merill Jessop is the mother of the up coming defendant? Anyone know?

  118. All I can say about the AG’s taking on the twin cities of “the Creek:’

    About damn time…

  119. Merril Leroy Jessop’s mother was Barbara Steed Jessop, Miele.

  120. That’s very good news. About time, indeed.

  121. $109/52 weeks for the Arizona Capitol Times doesn’t work within my budget.

    Worth the price if one is following a host of issues in the Arizona Legislature (similar to the Quorum Report that covers the Texas lege), but out of my range for following the UEP/FLDS stories.

  122. Well, its good to get the heads up anyway. The FLDS should have seen this coming.

    But with 30 concurrent legal cases, whats a cult to do? Especially when the mob boss is in prison!

  123. I’m not one to rant much, but…

    Warren Jeffs deserves to rot in a living hell in prison for the things he has put people through who trusted in him because of their religious faith.

    May he have a long life in prison.

    I’m done for now.

  124. Texas Twist, gotta agree with that ranting. He is the leader. He is responsible for his trusting followers. Wish they could see it and make some changes before it is too late, if it isnt already.

  125. And another thought – there really should be two types of prion. One for the violent murders and such – and then one for those who lead their followers into pain and destruction and that prison should allow no visitors, no contact and no possibility of continued bad influence! So much for my morning say!

  126. The best thing that members of the FLDS faith could do for their faith is to acknowledge that Warren Jeffs is not a prophet and that he is the one who has created the destructions and damages they have experienced.

    Not God.

    Not Satan.

    Warren Jeffs.

  127. Miz Twist, I’m thinking they’ve long been doing this evil, if you’re thinking about the underaged mothers. Think about the 1953 attempt. I know I saw plenty along the Wasatch front, mothers, age maybe 14, a child or 2, maybe pregnant — driving a station wagon, in the 1980s. It was very much like visiting a foreign country in many ways.

    In fact a Smith’s grocery refused to accept my military dependent picture ID to cash a check or prepaid travelers check for groceries, but then did take my credit card — required my TX driver license for ID. NO I AM NOT JOKING. Puzzled I had even asked if Smiths did not recognize the US government or what. I got no answer to that except “policy”.

  128. Amusing also, ONLY the bank that issued the travelers’ checks I’d paid for would cash them for me, in SLC. But that one was also true in San Francisco, so I stopped using that form of cash.

  129. Aye. I tried to buy traveler checks about a year ago and found out they was obsolete. Most places just won’t take them.

  130. Thanks, Twist.

  131. Anyone here have the bucks to spring for this entire article from the Arizona Capitol Times?

    Obviously you have the bucks, anonymous…..

  132. #

    Anyone here have the bucks to spring for this entire article from the Arizona Capitol Times?

    Obviously you have the bucks, anonymous…..

    Petey said this on February 27, 2010 at 10:26 PM

    No Petey I don’t have the bucks. I was only able to access the free synopsis.

    Do you have the bucks for the entire article?

  133. Surpising (to me) factoid from SLT article, also off topic.

    “Nine years into an ever-escalating war in Afghanistan, one-half of all Pashto and Dari linguists in the Department of Defense are members of the Utah National Guard.

    That’s a point of frustration for Utah Guard commander Maj. Gen. Brian Tarbet, who believes the U.S. military has failed to properly build a corps of linguists adequate to the tremendous task it faces in South Asia — and thus is leaning heavily on Utah’s citizen soldiers for support.

  134. I wonder where all the Utah linguists “come from”

  135. hhg

    I suspect it’s the Mormon church. They have extensive language training so they can try to convert folks of different backgrounds. As many know my wife is Vietnamese – one day we were at the big Hong Kong market in the Asian part of Houston. The Mormons were out there and I started engaging them in some conversation. The guy admitted to speaking Vietnamese so either I or my wife said “let’s hear it.” Turns out my wife was quite impressed.

  136. I agree that the returned LDS missionaries have a lot of language skills. There are people in my family who speak Mndarin, Spanish, Japanese and German due to missionary experience in those areas. However Pasho and Dari are spoken in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran, areas where, to my knowledge, the LDS church does not have a missionary presence.

  137. Chemist

    Yeah I agree those are awfully strange and rather obtuse languages. My guess is that since folks tend to develop an aptitude for language those would be the easiest to train in other languages.

    I really can’t think of any other reason there would be a large contingent of linguists from Utah.

  138. I will never understand how Mormons are respected but the Fundamentalist Mormons are not on these sites. Doggone they both believe in the same prophet and the same book that is not the Bible. And there are tons of celestial kingdom headed folks in both areas. It just doesnt make sense.

  139. Last I checked, the LDS do not believe that one man should assign everyone else’s sex partner, nor that laws on age of consent should be ignored if they conflict with the whim of that one man. Then there’s child labor law violations, failure to educate children to a high school level, a police department that swears allegiance to that one man over normal police procedures, etc. It’s about the CRIME, Anon at 9:15AM! It’s not about religious bigotry; it’s about theocracy vs democracy. It’s not about whether you believe the Bible, the D&C or the Koran. I don’t want a theocracy run by any religion! It’s about whether or not you are perpetrating wide spread abuse in the name of religion and thumbing your nose at the law.

  140. I will never understand how Mormons are respected but the Fundamentalist Mormons are not on these sites.

    I think most people on this site are anti-child abuse. They are only anti-Fundamentalist Mormon because of that.

  141. No I cannot afford the access, nor am I smart enough to access the free synopsis.

  142. I will never understand how Mormons are respected but the Fundamentalist Mormons are not on these sites. Doggone they both believe in the same prophet and the same book that is not the Bible. And there are tons of celestial kingdom headed folks in both areas. It just doesnt make sense.
    …………………………

    Wow. I can’t believe anyone with half a brain would have an issue figuring this out.

    What is not respected is the closed FLDS polygamist society that is under the One Man rule of a convicted felon who assigns underage girls to middle aged men as child brides.

    Does this describe the Mormon Church? Not even close.

  143. As an active LDS member I have no respect for the flds or any other fundamanetalist mormon groups. IMO, they have gone so far off the reservation and deviated so much from the church structure established by Joseph Smith
    that they are not even close to what I believe.

  144. Anon

    Indeed, this isnt really about theology, besides where it leads to abuse.

    I am not LDS but know some fine folks who are. As a religion they dont abuse their family members in any way, in fact go to lengths to strengthen the family. (family home evenings etc)

    This group, the FLDS, have strayed and have become something else entirely. Feral, wild, untamed, unchecked.

    Whose fault? Well, the blame can go around some, but eventually the blame has to lie on the folks that live that way, accept it, and back it up.

    Its tough breaking out of that cycle, but guess what, lots of people have and will continue to leave.

  145. Ron said: I think most people on this site are anti-child abuse. They are only anti-Fundamentalist Mormon because of that.

    I agree. I think that’s where the [tin hat] people who just pop in for a quick read and post get off track. They like to perpetuate the notion that this is all about taking away someone’s religious freedom. They prefer to push aside all the evidence of multiple wrong doings and specific lawlessness of those who run flds and it’s various enterprises. As I stated over on Blue’s blog, I don’t care if they worship a #2 lead pencil, they still must obey the laws. People who refuse to see that are just blind to reality.

  146. MC1199

    Thats the problem.

    They worship their #2 lead pencils.

  147. From Brooke Adams’ article of 2-15-2010:

    “In a letter dated Jan. 26, Shurtleff gave the FLDS 30 days to accept a settlement proposal that Wisan put forth last summer.”

    Tick, tick, tick…………

    http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_14406293

  148. http://www.abc4.com/s/pVBF_nPFIkWyxGBXdc6ApQ.cspx

  149. lost children of polygamy

    http://www.abc4.com/s/pVBF_nPFIkWyxGBXdc6ApQ.cspx

  150. “I will never understand how Mormons are respected but the Fundamentalist Mormons are not on these sites.”

    I don’t think it’s so much that the mainstream LDS are “respected” so much as the mainstream LDS are not participating in these human rights and legal violations and are therefor not an issue on these blogs. I respect some things about the LDS faith, just as I respect some things about the FLDS faith, but I will speak out and continue to speak out against illegal activity and various abuses. I don’t much care WHAT religion the abuser is and who they claimed gave them permission to be abusive.

  151. http://www.fox13now.com/news/kstu-uep-deadline-passes,0,6230653.story

  152. Chemist,
    Are there any mainstream LDS groups which attempt to assist women and children wishing to exit fundamentalism, like the Christian group, Shield and Refuge?

  153. They worship their #2 lead pencils.

    Hmmm, is it they worship #2 pencils or have the intelligence of #2 pencils?

  154. Twist

    Good find – tick tick rrrriiinnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggg

    The UEP is done. Stick a fork in it. It will be litigated to zero.

    Ron – Yes, IQ of a lead pencil, evidently.

  155. cw: I do not speak for the lds church and may not be aware of different programs in different areas. in the midwest this is not an issue for local lds units.
    To my knowledge, an issue like that would be handled by the local LDS ward (congregation) who could call on resources outside of the local level if necessary.

  156. Thanks Chemist, I think we need to get the word out there if there are such groups willing to help. Let me know if you find out about any.

  157. Thanks for the link Anon!

    lost children of polygamy

    http://www.abc4.com/s/pVBF_nPFIkWyxGBXdc6ApQ.cspx

    Anonymous said this on February 28, 2010 at 11:33 PM

  158. Thought this might interest you folks – Saudi Cleric Muhammad Musa Al-Sharif Defends the Marrying Off of Under-Age Girls in Saudi Arabia: Atheists, Christians, and Fornicators Are Responsible for Human Rights Treaties, in his opinion.
    Child brides are not unique to FLDS culture, remember Muhammad’s 9 year old child bride, Ayesha.

    http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2399.htm

  159. Well, thank God for Athiests, Christians and Fornicators, then.

  160. Hmmm

    Maybe Nat Geo needs to do another article “Child Brides of the World – and the people who believe in promoting it”

  161. Stamp: The UEP is done. Stick a fork in it. It will be litigated to zero.
    ………………..

    What gets me is the FLDS and supporters complaining that their property is being taken away from them, while Rod Parker complains that they are being forced to take their property BACK.

    So yeah, under this bizarre mindset they probably will litigate their own trust into oblivion, and then blame everyone else for their loss.

  162. Bizzzzzzzzzzz are for sure !! 🙂

  163. Under no circumstances are the FLDS responsible for whatever befalls them.

    Well, thats what Warren thinks, anyway!

  164. Cool Can I blame everything Bad in my life on Everyone and Anything else Stamp? lol

  165. If I should ever get so much as a wart I’m blaming it on Warren Jeffs.

  166. I’m with you, dd1.

    I’m blaming Stamp.

    One thing Rodney Parker forgot to say is that Warren Jeffs dictated that FLDS members who accepted a deed to their homes would be excommunicated.

    Nothing has been said publicly about that by any of the spokespersons for the FLDS so I’m assuming that edict by Warren is still in effect.

  167. Oh Well, Im sure many would be willing to purchase their homes, and the other vacant houses,, many GENTILES would probably buy them if available.
    What do ya know,,,they will have a segregated neighborhood,, YIPPPPEEEE

  168. I think the self declared ‘Test’ from Warren Jeffs is ongoing and don’t look for any mutual agreement or settlement. Rather a continued delaying tactic that exacerbates the courts findings and verdicts or further embroils the legal systems ability to manage or control this situation is preferred. There has been no renouncing of the ‘Answer Them Nothing’ policy and nominating Bishop Wendell L. Nielson is just a continuance to manipulate the legal proceedings, while the undeclared ‘Holy War’ is preserved to fight on defiantly. Every delay is a ‘Win’ and perpetuates in the FLDS leadership that they can overcome their losses to date. No resolution to the UEPTrust can be worked out without Warren Jeffs loosing prophetic influence and perceived control, therefore, no progress will be made toward a settlement, just delay, delay and delay.

  169. Warren is the rug burn that just keeps on rug burning.

  170. i think you’re right twist and the people know it so that’s why none who are still believing members will accept the title to their property.

  171. No Jeffs opinion as of 3/2/10.

  172. You’re predicting that there won’t be one tomorrow or you forgot what day it is, or you are currently on the other side of the international date line?

  173. Did you all hear about the falsified medical records? If true that’s going to sting.

  174. Al, I just read about it. Yes, if it’s true it will be a terrible thing. There is no good reason to commit perjury. I very much hope that it is a false allegation by an angry ex-husband. I’m not saying it is, as there simply isn’t enough information either way, but I certainly hope it is.

  175. Not as much as when Proud Texan recrosses the International #2 lead pencil line.

  176. As far as I know the only medical evidence submitted in warren jeffs trial as submitted by Jane Blackmore, just as Matt Smith said.

  177. I believe someone is claiming Jane Blackmore lied in her medical reports. I suppose that wouldn’t technically be perjury but it would still be wrong. On the other hand, I have no idea if this “Sharon said that Leroy said that Jane did…” chain of accusation has any validity. If it’s true, it’s wrong that it happened. I am hoping it’s just a case of someone wanting to cause trouble for others.

  178. My take on it was that Barlow lied? Because there were no medical reports entered into evidence, other than Jane Blackmores who was the midwife Ellisa went to for her miscarriages.
    and if you notice,,, barlow will agree to another deposition but under certain circumstances?
    That has pissed off xhusband written all over it.

  179. Where are you folks reading about this ‘false medical report’?

  180. According to the report, Barlow told Price that the medical records “had all been created in one day to make it look like she had seen a caretaker on several different occasions.
    **********
    See that, its Barlow who supposedly told PRICE.

  181. Brooke adams blog betty

  182. So, Elissa and Lamont are divorced?

  183. Getting one

  184. in the process, yes

  185. I’m not sure what the conditions of the interview are. As far as I know Lamont Barlow didn’t testify so he doesn’t have to worry about perjury.

  186. Oh Alin Alin,, yu still haven’t gotten a grip on this case yet!!! 😦

  187. If there is a question regarding falsification of records, that could easily be confirmed or denied by the MD assigned to supervise the midwife. I would look for testimony from the supervising physician of record.

  188. Brooke’s article admits that this is third hand hear say.

    CW, I’d be surprised if there is one.

    Jane Blackmore doesn’t strike me as a liar from what I have read in her words.

  189. Betty,
    All midwives have a physician – supervisor/collaborator.

  190. cw,, not in canada they don’t

  191. at least flds in canada didnt

  192. Well in the US they do, and there is a signed agreement.

  193. C-W honey,, since when have FLDS ever followed the rules that govern everyone else?

  194. Betty, I agree with you. This strikes me much like the breathless reveal that a Schliecher County juror was married to a Grand Juror complete with names.

    Throwing stuff up on a blog when you’re talking about cooking is one thing. Throwing third hand rumors regarding a legal case is entirely a different thing.

  195. DD1, you raise an interesting point.

    Why is Ms. Adams raising the issue of a third hand rumor against a medical professional ?
    If it is not true, where does this respected medical professional go to get her reputation back ?
    Ms. Adams is behaving unprofessionally, to say the least…. but of course, she can attack TBM for failure to redact material from Warren Jeffs….the hypocrisy amazes me….

  196. Brooke get caught blogging drunk again? LMAO

  197. If I could remember where the affidavit was from Jane Blackmore was in the evidence in this site,, I would go look and see if there was a physican listed,, but I can’t remember where it is

  198. CW – If she’s smart she won’t pass go, but head directly for Natalie Malonis.

  199. DD:
    This?
    https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/declaration-of-jayne-blackmore/

  200. No Ellie, it was the orignal document that Jane Blackmore wrote herself giving each time she saw ellisa

  201. and the document showed Elissa had a miscarriage prior to going to canada to see her sister

  202. Al, I referred to perjury in connection with Jane Blackmore, not with Lamont. But I don’t actually know if there would be any “perjury” since I don’t remember Jane testifying in the trial. (Of course, I didn’t pay that much attention to that trial either.) But I have to say I’m leaning towards this “medical records falsified” thing as being a lie in and of itself. It’s possible it’s wishful thinking on my part but the accusation doesn’t feel terribly credible to me.

  203. DD1,
    I think that copies of the original documents are in Elissa’s book.

  204. Okay, well I think something is fishy about the whole thing..

  205. Betty, I agree with you. This strikes me much like the breathless reveal that a Schliecher County juror was married to a Grand Juror complete with names.

    Throwing stuff up on a blog when you’re talking about cooking is one thing. Throwing third hand rumors regarding a legal case is entirely a different thing.

    Miele said this on March 1, 2010 at 4:16 PM

    So you all just need to consider the source and the spin.

    Miele, can you PLEASE teach this pitiful excuse of a reporter who OUTS jurists on her blaugh and OUTS victims of sexual assault on her blaugh to learn to answer them NOTHING – in other words, to keep her damn mouth shut and stop putting innocent people in harm’s way?

  206. THe SLTrib in an editorial on the trial of another polygamist prophet named Mitchell, in the comments section it was posted how Mitchell was like ole Warren Jeffs.

    http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_14493613

    “Citing the experts, Kimball agreed that Mitchell is fundamentally a psychopath with malignant narcissism, defined as an “arrogant sense of self-worth and indifference to the welfare of others.”

    Hey this sounds like a description of Warren Jeffs, just remove the name Mitchell, and place the name Warren Jeffs and it’s still a true statement. In fact it’s still true if you insert the name Willie the thug, Merril Jessop, Wendell and Lyle.

    Above rings true IMO. All the same species of cockroach!

  207. Does this help?

    http://childbrides.org/Jane_Blackmore_declaration_June_2008.pdf

    http://childbrides.org/Elissa-Wall_medical-record.pdf

  208. McMalignant IMHO

  209. Anon

    Those help indeed. Make me want to see those child molesters spend eternity in prison!

  210. catwhisperer in the document posted above the “family physician” is named Shirley Barlow. But I don’t know if Shirley Barlow is in Canada or USA

    http://childbrides.org/Elissa-Wall_medical-record.pdf

  211. I do know that in part #8 Jane Blackmore checked the “NO” box on a history of “Alcohol/Drug Use”.

    Warren’s Utah attorneys tried to use this to impeach Elissa during the trial saying she had a history of alcohol/drug use.

    They were to damn stupid to read the medical history correctly and interpret it to know that alcohol/drug use had NOT been a problem for Elissa.

    FLDS attorneys … ya just gotta luv em!

  212. A while back someone took issue with the social worker Eric Nelson evaluating Warren’s mental competency.

    Here is another evaluation that was done during the Utah Trial when Warren was trying to hang himself and banging his head against the walls of Purgatory –

    http://childbrides.org/compentency_eval_Jeffs_Nov_2007.pdf

  213. Here’a an interesting interview of an expert on fundie polig cults which was carried on ABC’s Nightline:

    http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/TheLaw/research-reveals-secrets-psychology-polygamous-sects-leaders/story?id=9955379&page=1

    The experts name is forensic psychiatrist Dr. Michael Welner.

    Interesting read on subject as anon 9:06 PM has posted info on Jeffs mental evaluation.

  214. A Texan’s article is a great read. Supposedly there’s going to be a part 2 which I guess would be posted today.

  215. Throwing stuff up on a blog when you’re talking about cooking is one thing. Throwing third hand rumors regarding a legal case is entirely a different thing.
    ——–
    Omigod did you hear what Willie told Warren about what Merril said to Wendell after class?

  216. i did ellie and was shocked i tell you, shocked.

  217. I reviewed the medical record of Elissa Wall referenced above.
    Jane Blackmore clearly documented her collaboration with a supervising MD in the medical record as part of the documentation of the miscarriage… it says on 21 – 02 -03 at 1400 hrs : “Doc at CVH called and aware of patient will transfer if bleeding increased…”
    All anyone need do to confirm that Elissa received this treatment is to contact the supervising MD at CVH.
    If this is the document which is being called into question by Ms Adams et al, I don’t see anything wrong with it.
    A standard midwife chart template is used with all chart entries on the same page, but with each entry separately dated and timed.
    This is not a problem, but they are trying to “spin” it into a problem…

  218. I imagine it will change the course of the trials, ellie and ProudTexan. I mean, what Willie told Warren about what Merril said to Wendell is clearly accurate, truthful, and relevant to the situation at hand. (If you ask me which situation at hand I will be forced to remind you that I am to answer everyone nothing because Meile said so.) 😉

  219. Shirley Barlow is an adult nurse practitioner licensed in Utah and Arizona and was the primary care provider for Elissa while living in Hildale / Colorado City, but could not be the supervising / collaborating physician for Jane Blackmore in Canada – that collaborating physician would have to be licensed and practicing in Canada.

  220. ABC Nightline’s interview with Dr. Welner is very interesting. It led me to wonder about the differences between clinical and forensic psychology. Wiki’s article is enlightening and points out (for instance) that the “client” has no promise of confidentiality making the process typically (understandably) adversarial. “…the forensic psychologist must be skilled in recognizing varying degrees of feigned symptoms.”

    Also fascinating, the link at the end of ABC Nithtline’s article regarding “Depravity Scale” research:
    “Dr. Michael Welner is chairman of The Forensic Panel, a national forensic science practice. He is also researching an evidence-based measure, The Depravity Scale at http://www.depravityscale.org , which invites Americans to participate in surveys that are being used to help develop a legal standard of what represents the worst of crimes.”

    Thanks for the link, A Texan. Looking forward to part 2.

  221. If I’m understanding correctly, Wally Bugden introduced the medical records into evidence for his blunder on what was checked off on Elissa’s medical history.

    Jane Blackmore was then called as a rebuttal witness by the prosecution.

  222. Wow – I read a bunch of the court’s opinion in the Mitchell case. A lot of interesting stuff there if you’re interested in psychiatry and the law.

    Didn’t read it all since its 149 pages! It talks a lot about delusions, personality disorders and various other things in a legal context. Anyway, I’d recommend it if that’s your thing.

  223. Oh yeah, or you can get s very short analysis in my post titled, The One Mighty and Strong Delusion.

  224. And here I thought John Lester was to be The One Mighty and Strong.

  225. Read your post and Ron, I agree. Thinking goofy I meant fundy Iranians. They hit the jackpot.

  226. CW, thanks. Spin for sure. And if they could reference it against the physician, why interview Lamont at all? Well, cause Picaretta wants to go on a fishing expedition with an estranged husband to see if there’s any poo he can throw at the wall that he’s not already thrown.

  227. Yeah, if there’s poo to be thrown getting an ex will usually throw it.

  228. “…the forensic psychologist must be skilled in recognizing varying degrees of feigned symptoms.”
    =================================================================

    Here’s the problem, these forensic evaluations are highly based on the subjective analysis of the shrink rather than scientific analysis.

    There a published appeal written about a women who was committed to a mental institution by her husband (who she was trying to divorce). She smiled when the psychologist asked her if she was hearing voices. She would also leave the baby in just diapers during the hot summer months. Things like this were just to label her psychotic.

    The truth is someone with a Phd or MD is no more qualified to assess credibility of people than an ordinary person. (Sorry CatWhisper but it’s true).

  229. If it is not true, where does this respected medical professional go to get her reputation back ?

    ———————————————————-

    Probably the same place all those 3 and 4 year old boys who were labeled as sexual abusers will go to get their reputation back.

    The same place those families who were cleared of all abused by CPS will go to get their reputation back.

    The same place Merianne will go to get her reputation back after posters claimed she had a baby.

    The same place as those parents who were accused of having children with unusual high number of broken bones will go.

    The same place you will find posters who were accused of being pedophiles because they spoke out against the raid.

  230. Why would Merianne’s reputation be tarnished if the result of her rape was a baby?

    Speaking out against the raid is one thing. Two years later being in total denial that there really is wide spread abuse is something else again.

    We’ve had three convictions in which:
    there were girls underaged married to one man, had a baby and then ‘reassigned’ to the second man and had a baby AND THEY WERE STILL UNDER AGED
    There is lots of proof of Jeff’s having fathered other babies by under aged girls not associated with the indictments. Like DNA proof, like photos in magazines.
    There are his own words in his dictations.
    The CPS report of December 2008 listed considerable abuse in most of the families.

    Get a clue, MaryKay.

  231. Bunk!! Deb Lee (marykay)

    1. Families were never abused by CPS, they were investigated for child abuse.

    2. Not ONE child from Flds had a “SANE” exam regardless the poo Medvecky throws, or you listen to.

    3. Can you Prove that Merrianne doesn’t have a child?

    4. In a community of 500 children, it isn’t common that children under the age of 5 have broken bones, unless they have been mishandled.

    5. Pedophiles,, Yes there were and are many pedophiles amoung Flds. Anytime young men or old men within a confined group sexually assault their sisters or young underage girls,, they are pedophiles. And that to was not only proven in Texas but in Utah and Arizona. You amoung several posters here trully need to do your reasearch before you end up with Foot in Mouth disease.

  232. The truth is a mental health professional is not more qualified to diagnose mental health than a common citizen? One false accusation discounts a whole profession? Let me guess, MaryKay, people have suggested in the past that maybe you have mental problems and you think it’s all a conspiracy against you?

  233. And while Im thinking about it MaryKay, the statistics on child abuse are NEVER clear, and this is why.
    If every child who is abused actually ran down to the police station and TOLD, you would have thousands and thousands of children there.
    Its a fact, that only 5% of sexually or phyiscally abused children or women EVER TELL anyone.
    You dumb ASS!!

  234. Here’s the problem, these forensic evaluations are highly based on the subjective analysis of the shrink rather than scientific analysis.

    That’s true to an extent. Usually they cannot point to any sort of research or peer reviewed literature to back up their opinion. However, that’s why it’s called an “expert opinion.” That involves applying scientific principles to a given set of facts. Obviously what facts are chosen as relevant will greatly affect the opinion.

    The truth is someone with a Phd or MD is no more qualified to assess credibility of people than an ordinary person. (Sorry CatWhisper but it’s true).

    That’s not what they’re doing. It’s not really a case of credibility. They’re simply stating an opinion whether someone falls into a diagnostic category.

  235. Yes, and I’m probably guilty of troll feeding…

  236. “When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty.”
    -George Bernard Shaw

    this is for you Marykay

  237. Nice find, DD1!!!

  238. Oh, dear. Medvecky is doing the old bit “because they are adults now, they couldn’t have been under aged 5 years ago”. He also acts like the photos from the NYTimes are brand new, even though they were published…what….6-8 months ago. He shows a picture of a 20 year old with a four year old child and says “See! Not a child.” Even though 20 minus 4 minus 9 months equals 15.

    What an idiot. But his followers are worse.

  239. I bet I could find some more left to fling.

  240. “When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty.”
    ====================================================
    I like that thanks. So many LE stated they was only doing their jobs.

  241. “When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty.”
    -George Bernard Shaw

    This is for people who make hoax rape calls and forge medical records.

  242. Sorry Mary Kay, I take the word of educated professionals over lay people any day – and where is the forensic analysis of the medical records by a professional which proves that the medical record is tainted in some way?
    I don’t see any.

  243. A finger points to the moon.
    The finger is pointless and the moon is speechless.

    I don’t remember who said it, but they were so right on, and the moon answered it nothing.

  244. Those pudmucky folks couldn’t read a weather rock accurately.

    Like if it’s wet, it’s raining, if it’s warm, the sun is shining, &c.

    Come to think on it I wonder if my weather rock came here when I moved last fall.

  245. ^^^ More poo to fling at ex. ^^^

  246. I collect holy rocks. You can run string through the holes and hang them. My weather rock has a hole. You can weight branch tips of small trees with a rock-on-a-rope but hey, nuts and bolts might work just as well. For a weeping tree. Now that I don’t live with deer I guess I could try weeping peaches.

    I think it was an old celtic belief that rocks with holes gave souls the littles like faeriefolk places to hide. Holy rocks.

  247. Alinusara and MaryKay
    regardless what you think,, DNA doesn’t lie.. Ever thought about that?

    Best Decision the Judge made was to take DNA for everyone. You see, you can’t change DNA. And as of this time, none of the men convicted, have denied, nor has it been proven the DNA was flawed.
    So continue in your ignorance, I suppose it helps you get through the day by wearing rose colored glasses!

  248. This is the document I talked about yesterday on Elissa Wall, with Jane Blackmore as Midwife

    https://texasflds.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/too-young.pdf

  249. Is Shirley Barlow an MD?

  250. I dunno Betty, she is on the Document as the Physican

  251. the thing is Blackmore kept very good records, in fact, when she left Flds in Canada, she took most of her records with her. She was a midwife many years there, and from all accounts very respected, so I don’t see where all the crap about making up evidence is coming from

  252. Betty,

    read the post of anonymous 8:38 regarding shirley barlow.

  253. Yeah I see that, however, at the very bottom of the document,, you can see where it says midwife/physian , you can see part of a name but NOT the whole thing.
    Shirley Barlow was listed as the family physican (Im assuming in Hildale) for reference Im sure at the top.
    But the bottom signature of Jane Blackmore can be seen clearly, the physican you cant see the whole signature

  254. Thanks, CW.

  255. Oh, boy. Hugh has already declared Warren Jeffs to be wrongly imprisoned on the basis of Conn agreeing to hear the motion to depose Lamont. I know that they aren’t dumber than they used to be, but my tolerance for dumb has been very low of late.

    No one is really arguing if Jeffs instructed Allen and Elissa to have sex when she was 14 or face damnation. Everyone knows that. Everyone knows she didn’t want it. Allen himself said they had sex within a few weeks of their ‘marriage”. Why would anyone act gleeful at the idea of this man getting off?

  256. Cause he is “dumb as a Post” betty

  257. I wonder if the flds defense attorneys still want to load the jury with Hispanics?

    http://fwix.com/brownsville/share/d9e21e4b54/man_who_abused_girls_sentenced_to_140_years

  258. OK, I spoke with someone today who has more knowledge that Brooke Adams about what is going on with these new defense filings in Arizona.

    I was told that it is nothing but a matter of rumor mongering on Shannon Price’s part – and now Ms. Adam’s part for continuing the rumor mongering.

    It seems that the original comment by Lamont Barlow regarding lies being made during the Warren Jeffs Utah trial had to do with Jane Blackmore’s notation checking the NO box next to section 8 regarding alcohol/drug abuse.

    The defense interpreted that to be a YES, there was a history of alcohol/drug abuse. However, they were completely wrong. Somehow, Shannon Price overheard Lamont commenting about this false claim on Elissa’s medical record presented during the trial. It must have been made sometime after the trial, because Shannon Price was NOT at Warren’s Utah trial.

    Some time later in passing, Shannon mentioned this to Brock Belnap, although Shannon didn’t understand the issues regarding the false statements made about Elissa’s medical record.

    Remember, the false statement was made by Warren’s attorney, not Elissa. BIG DIFFERENCE.

    Shannon didn’t know what was the implication of Lamont’s comment. She was clueless. So, now her getting in the middle of something she knows absolutely nothing about – has caused all kinds of new legal shenanigins by the “ever reaching for straws” FLDS attorneys.

    So, it is rumor mongering by Shannon and Brooke and nothing but hearsay that has no credibility. It is also NOT first hand knowledge on Shannon’s part.

  259. Cause he is “dumb as a Post” betty

    Or maybe dumb as a #2 pencil?

  260. Thanks Anon 5:33. Looking at the record, it makes perfect sense.

    So a practitioner’s name has been drug through the mud for nothing?

  261. thank you Anonymous 5:33 for the update

  262. hey ron, will you please go and tell mudpuppy that the 2nd picture isn’t of keate’s victim, but it’s his daughter. he’s flashing veda keate as being allen’s victim and i guess you can characterize it that way, but her child isn’t allen’s child, she herself is allen’s child.

    as for his proposed victim’s impact statement, i doubt very seriously it could come from anything in writing by way of the defense and be presented in court since you can’t prove that the victim really wrote it.

    good try though mud. keep it up and maybe you’ll convince someone that you actually talk to people at the ranch.

  263. Thanks Miele for that link. It is SO refreshing that Texas judges have no tolerance for child molesters.

    Maybe the Arizona case for Warren will just crumble and then Texas can do what needs to be done to this narcissistic perverted pedophile prophet.

  264. Re: Shannon Price and Lamont Barlow, see:

    https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2010/03/02/shannon-price-lamont-barlow-what-really-happened/

  265. PT

    Since I play often in the mud I’ll be sure to note that to him.

  266. “When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declares that it is his duty.”
    -George Bernard Shaw

    Thanks Marykay

    I see FLDS written between the lines, trouble is they are not ashamed.

  267. Well, I hate to say “I told you so” but the court document FLDS Texas posted substantiates what I said earlier. Shannon Price was not only WRONG in what she claimed, she was also baseless and clueless.

    In the meantime, many people have unnecessarily had their stress levels significantly raised by this woman’s ignorance and the FLDS defense attorney’s cash registers have been going Ka-Ching all day.

    What a same for everyone involved because of one woman’s stupidity, ego and ignorance.

  268. But what is almost worse or equally bad is that Brooke bit hook line and sinker…

  269. And six months from now the apologists will still refer back to this incident as if the false testimony actually happened.

  270. And in the meantime, Jennifer Dobner at the AP bit on it as did UPI:

    http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14497305

    Sheriff probes false testimony claim in polygamous leader’s case
    By Jennifer Dobner

    Associated Press Writer

    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/03/02/Perjury-alleged-in-polygamists-trial/UPI-87161267576726/

    Perjury alleged in polygamist’s trial

    The Art of Propaganda — Step One: Find a friendly reporter…

  271. I don’t fault Shannon Price or Brooke. This is a classic example of why you should never put very much trust in hearsay evidence.

    If you ask me the one that really looks stupid is Piccaretta. The only problem is that even when he’s stupid it adds to his kid’s college fund.

  272. Ron,

    Seems to me that a call from Brooke to Lamont’s attorney Roger Hoole could have added a very important element and some clarity to this story — Lamont’s affidavit is dated February 26, 2010.

    Brooke filed her blog story on March 1 and followed it with an article for the Tribune.

    An allegation of perjury is highly charged and should be checked out thoroughly prior to publication.

    The blog entry appears to have only the court filing by Piccaretta and Matt Smith’s response of February 26 (9:XX a.m.) as its sourcing.

    One phone call to Lamont’s attorney Roger Hoole and it would have been a completely different story. Perhaps she tried to check the story out through Hoole’s office and did not get her call returned, but still the allegation of false testimony is a loaded one and would have been better treated with more caution.

    Taking filings by defense counsel and running with it is irresponsible.

    This line from the Tribune story suggests to me that Piccaretta’s claim was the original sourcing for the “explosive” story:

    “The claim that Wall’s medical records were falsified was disclosed last week in a flurry of defense filings in Jeffs’ Arizona case.”

  273. “I don’t fault Shannon Price or Brooke. This is a classic example of why you should never put very much trust in hearsay evidence.”

    Your second sentence doesn’t seem to be consistent with your first.

  274. I’ll note, too, that this story has two examples of Warren’s defense counsel “saying anything” in their efforts to impeach Elissa Wall’s credibility — first by Bugden in Warren’s trial regarding what the medical records actually said and now by Piccaretta.

    I’d say that their credibility is the question when they make these breathless claims.

  275. Brookes blog has become more like the “national enquirer” than a reputable reported piece. She dangles the fish out there to see who bites! Of course its her blog, she can misinterpret all she wants, but when it makes it to the column in her newspaper, Id say SLT has a HUGE problem. She didn’t bother to check out her facts, before she printed it, she just threw the bait out there, to see who would bite.

  276. Twist

    I don’t think the Hoole’s would even talk to Brooke. As far as reporting this thing, it seems that several reporters are reporting it. They’re simply reporting the news aspect of the defense making the allegations. They aren’t digging any deeper, but I don’t really find that surprising.

    Someone needs to feed them the documents on this site so that a more accurate record can be disseminated.

  277. Ron, Brooke and most other news media already know this site exists. Brooke has access to the truth, just like this site did, she is evidendly traveling at the moment, and wasn’t interested in seeking the documents or the truth.

  278. “They aren’t digging any deeper, but I don’t really find that surprising.”

    Sadly, neither do I.

    It’s obvious to me that regarding this story, the AP and UPI simply picked up information from Brooke’s article. There does not appear to be any original reporting in their very brief blurbs on this subject.

    It is irresponsible to publish a story like this one without making every effort to check out all the possible avenues.

    Possibly true that Hoole would not return a phone call to Brooke, but her blog entry which was published first makes no mention of an attempt to call him nor does her article. That would have given her some cover.

  279. Oh, another shoe has dropped.

    In 1953, there was political fallout and the governor of AZ was derided by many sides and he lost re-election.

    The FLDS PPPP have been hoping for the same thing to happen to Perry.

    Last night, incumbent Texas Governor Perry “ran away” with the nomination.

    “Perry, Texas’ longest-serving governor, had 52 percent of the vote compared to Hutchison’s 31 percent, with nearly half of precincts reporting. GOP party activist Debra Medina, a favorite among many Tea Party voters, had about 18 percent.”

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/mar/02/perry-runs-away-with-nomination-hutchison-calls/

  280. “I don’t fault Shannon Price or Brooke. This is a classic example of why you should never put very much trust in hearsay evidence.”

    Your second sentence doesn’t seem to be consistent with your first.

    In general, people don’t understand (or perhaps forget) that hearsay evidence is unreliable. They don’t drill down and try to find the actual source of the statements.

    It’s a common mistake people make. Like I said, the one at fault is Piccarretta. He knows better but apparently that doesn’t stop him.

  281. No, they are all at fault,, Piccaretta for following falling the rabbit, Brooke for falling in the Rabbit hole.

  282. Well whoever site this belongs to, certainly drilled down to find out fact. And the document by Jane Blackmore, and the actual paperwork for when she treated Elissa wall has been around since 2007.

    What is it with Utah and Arizona ?? Cover up, See nothing, Hear nothing? Do Nothing but file frivolous motions.

  283. “In general, people don’t understand (or perhaps forget) that hearsay evidence is unreliable.”

    Brooke is a reporter, Ron, and therefore she has a higher level of responsibility than people “in general.”

  284. I’m going to pick at some more of this comment as it would apply to Brooke in her profession as a reporter.

    “They don’t drill down and try to find the actual source of the statements.”

    As a reporter, that is her job, Ron.

    “It’s a common mistake people make. Like I said, the one at fault is Piccarretta. He knows better but apparently that doesn’t stop him.”

    Brooke should also know better. It comes with the job.

  285. Yeah, I’m very disappointed in Brooke on this one. Is it possible that she gets pats on the head for lots of comments and thus just stirring up much is a worthwhile use of her time?

  286. I don’t think that’s it, Betty. My opinion is that she gets blinded at times by her bias.

    In this instance it does appear that she tried to combine work with a cross-country trip and “working vacations” aren’t always a good idea as one or the other can get shorted in the process.

  287. Awe Twist – just admit it – you don’t like Brooke.

    Why a bunch of you guys always want to shoot the messenger just escapes me. I mean for gosh sakes look at the crap on the news.

    Besides, you should have some compassion – with the state of the newspaper business she could soon find her self unemployed.

  288. Ron, I’ve thought about what you said time and again, can come to no other conclusion but that she will lie if it’s about FLDS, compare/contrast with any other polygamists or criminals.

  289. That multiple reporters submitted the same story is not at all surprising. I see it over and over again in the media – all forms of it. The goal is sales; breathless claims and hearsay are way up on the list of successful sales strategies. The lesson is: morals and personal responsibility rarely sell. Sensationalism and drummed-up controversy does and furthermore contributes to job security aka self-preservation. It’s all the more perverse when acted upon by (supposedly) responsible legal representatives. Still, lots of fault to go around with moral fortitude being deep-sixed.

    Unbiased, responsible reporters get my kudos and admiration. Sadly, they are few and far between.

  290. Here is the body of the email I have sent to the editors of the SL Tribune:

    “I would like to bring to your attention an article that your newspaper allowed to be published that is riddled full of lies that if the “reporter” Brooke Adams had bothered to do any investigating she would have known she was reporting LIES.

    http://www.sltrib.com/Polygamy/ci_14493444

    There is and was at the time this “reporter” published this article an affivadit on file and easily accessible via the courts from Lamont Barlow proving the facts. Brooke Adams either intentionally LIED in her article or was negligent in her responsibility to verify the facts. In either case first she should be at the least reprimanded or fired and second this newspaper owes the victims of Ms. Adams LIES a PUBLIC apology and a retraction and correction of the above referenced libelous article that this newspaper allowed to be published.”

  291. Bullshit, Ron.

    I’ve defended Brooke’s reporting at times and you don’t have a clue about how empathetic I am to the current economic climate for those who work in the newspaper industry.

  292. This case represents libel and slander against a medical professional. This is serious, and could be actionable.
    Brooke and colleagues would have done well to remain silent until the facts were substantiated. Remember this is an allegation of falsification of medical records.

  293. “There is and was at the time this “reporter” published this article an affivadit on file and easily accessible via the courts from Lamont Barlow proving the facts.”

    In the interest of accuracy, I’ll note that the affidavit was signed and notarized on February 25, but there is no court stamp on it that indicates it has been filed with the court.

    I’ll also note that my earlier statement that the affidavit was signed on February 26 is an error — it was signed on the 25th.

    There isn’t enough information to know if the affidavit was available through court records or not.

  294. The fact that there is poor reporting elsewhere does not make this good. Should we grade on a scale compared with National Enquirer and People magazine or compare with her own track record. I would think that if you were concerned about being without a job, you would be more motivated for excellence not less. Unless of course, you were going to night school to change careers.

    Think of the big name journalists who have lost their jobs or had serious flack from printed poorly researched work. It’s a basic tenet of the job.

    And I agree with Twist. There are many who comment here regularly who are intimately aware of the current economic and unemployment climate.

  295. It is my understanding Brooke has been given hard evidence that the Twin Cities utilities are corrupt and asked to investigate.

  296. HAHAHAH,, thats a good one Anon 10:26 , you mean like she investigated the article she just wrote on the Trib?

  297. I have no quarrel with those who are “intimately aware” of the newspaper industry’s current problems and am very well aware of the poor economic and unemployment climate. It goes far beyond the newspaper industry. But that IS what we’re discussing here, so I’ll say this: *I* have intimate experience on the receiving end of mainstream media, newspaper reporters included.

    I do believe that the excellence and motivation of most reporters is primarily – or at least highly – influenced by the company they work for and its owners/management. That’s the bottom line for publications like Nat’l Enquirer, etc. and their reporters. It’s true of any hiring publication and why you see such a difference in their end product. There is no comparison.

    I used to have a much higher opinion of the SLT – way back in the day. It seems to have changed radically as far as its bias.

    I just think it’s sad that professional reputation versus job security isn’t more closely integrated so that hanging on to one’s personal integrity isn’t so compromised. Nevertheless, it doesn’t matter who you are, it still comes down to choosing your poison or your purity. We all do it: WSJ, Brooke, Piccaretta, you and me. And we’ll all have opinions to express about those choices and ultimately have to live with our own (choices).

  298. What they fail to realize is that another professional’s status is in question here : a certified nurse midwife.
    An allegation of professional misconduct has been made.
    If there is any damage to her professional reputation, it could lead to a loss of income, and may very well be actionable.
    Brooke and colleagues would do well to maintain silence until there is proof of their allegations.

  299. ok,
    it fairness what we have against the remaining individuals in Texas are allegations; higher than those of Pic against Ms. Wall because they have been through a grand jury and brought to the legal system.

    The problem is not that allegations were made but that no research was provided to show that the allegations are less than paper thin.

  300. Alright – I’m waiting for the howls from the crowd against Jennifer Dobner for this article in the Desert News.

    Let the flaming begin…

  301. What they fail to realize is that another professional’s status is in question here : a certified nurse midwife.
    An allegation of professional misconduct has been made.

    I’m not so sure that the allegation is really against anyone. The allegation in Pic’s motion is this vague “lies are being told.”

    The initial assumption from the PPSG was the Elissa lied.

    Either way, it’s simply a bunch of ca ca that’s being thrown around.

  302. I’m just guessing that the AP picked up the SLT article, did very little to flesh it out or question it and reposted.

  303. Ron in case you weren’t aware, Brooke Adams and Jennifer Dobner are friends, so it does not surprise me that Ms. Dobner is furthering the spread of her friends LIES.

  304. Ron in case you weren’t aware, Brooke Adams and Jennifer Dobner are friends, so it does not surprise me that Ms. Dobner is furthering the spread of her friends LIES.

    Oh, a conspiracy? I love those since they drive up the price of my Alco stock.

  305. No Ron not a conspiracy, just does not surprise me that a friend would take another friend’s word for something and not think the friend would lie.

  306. Actually what betty says is true,, Brooke has made mention sevreal times on her blog that she and dobner are close friends, have lunch together often.

  307. I don’t see it as lying, but rather as failing to perform due diligence before printing hearsay. IMHO, the person who is lying is on the defense team of Jeffs, using this hearsay as an opportunity to go fishing with Lamont. I think Hoole is well founded in wanting to limit the scope of questions.

  308. No Ron, this is an allegation of professional misconduct.
    The statement has been made that the medical record was produced in one day, with false entries made to indicate that the course of treatment took place over several months.
    It is medical providers who produce medical records, not patients. The CNM has already certified that this is her record of treatment for Elissa. Elissa has NOTHING to do with the contents of her own medical chart, her health care provider DOES.
    Hence, the allegations being made are directed at the health care provider, and the allegations amount to allegations of professional misconduct. A serious matter indeed.

  309. Yes Cat forging medical records is a very serious allegation.

    Fale records used to put someone away for the rest of their life is a very serious matter.

    See other people can shine a little light too!

  310. So if the lawyer believes it is professional misconduct, then the Office of Professional Medical Conduct of British Columbia should have been contacted for an investigation by the attorneys who question the veracity of the documents.
    Where are the documents regarding their findings of fact on the matter?
    Nowhere that I can see.

  311. Yup, MaryKay, it’s just a little odd to question the medical documents and then want to interview someone WHO HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM.

    Also, Jeff’s sentence was 10 years; hardly a life sentence.

  312. MaryKay

    You dimwit! Read the affidavits!

    Warren’s attorney Bugden lied to the jury, HE is the one who misled the jury about the medical records!

    Get a clue dumbass!

  313. Hearsay reporting belongs to the National Enquirer and even they get sued. Brooke really did not present news, but tried to be sensational.
    this is going to back fire on a large scale. In the meantime good people are getting smeared innocently.
    Elissa, got ‘married’ against her will, underage, had forced intercourse and WJS ordered it all. THAT’s the real issue.

  314. C-M

    I think the defense attempting to paint Ellisa as a druggy should have been used against Warren, so that he got life without parole.

    I have no patience for those who further abuse rape victims! Give them double the sentence!

  315. in short, if the lawyers really believed the medical documents were falsified, they would question the provider about the medical documents – and they would have called for a professional conduct review – the professional conduct board would have issued a decision in the matter.
    Where is the documentation of the board’s review of the medical documents?
    Nowhere.
    The attorneys do not have any evidence that the documents are false, nor do they evidently have any intent of questioning the nurse midwife and her supervising physician either.

  316. Exactly. Fishing expedition based on hear say.

  317. While I was ordering books yesterday, I saw a listing for the new book written by Carolyn Jessop (Triumph–Life After the Cult) which is scheduled to be released in May. I thought some of you may be interested to know about it. The blurb mentions that there will be a large first printing and that an author tour is planned.

  318. Brooke went fishing and caught a shark, oops it bit her in the butt!

  319. CONCLUSION
    For the foregoing reasons, Movants request that the Court immediately vacate the Sealing Order,
    direct the clerk of Court to provide copies of all documents which had been sealed under that order to
    Movants, counsel immediately; and provide Movants an opportunity to respond to the recommendations
    and other material contained in those documents’
    DATED: March 2,2010′

    Evidently FLDS want Lindbergs, order to seal all evidence UNSEALED..

  320. Rod Parker filed the motion

  321. Enforcement of the Sealing.Order would not only exacelbate the damage from previous denial of
    participation, but would also deprive Movants, the news medi4 and any other interested persons of any
    notice or opportunity to be heard in this critical phase of the Trust administration case. This Court’s extraordinary,
    sua sponte Christmas Eve Sealing Order violates not only Movants’ but also the public’s
    rights to monitor and shine a tight on the Court’s and the parties’ actions in carrying out a very public
    role involving very public issues affecting an entire community. The Order was entered without any
    notice or hearing, and without any of the findings required by court rules. Enh’y of the Sealing Order
    absent procedural and substantive protections constitutes an abuse ofdiscretion, and encoruages those in
    the public trust, including the Attomeys General and this Court, to pursue a final disposition of consecrated
    Trust properties undeterred by Movants’ claims or FLDS religious beliefs, further calling into
    question the constitutionality of the entire enterprise being ca:ried out under the authority of this Court.

  322. trial date for Jeffs in Az

    http://www.mohavedailynews.com/articles/2010/03/03/news/local/doc4b8dffac13e04148813857.txt

  323. thanks hellohellogoodbye 🙂

  324. When I first got to reading/watching/hearing UT media back in the 80s I recognized it for carp, pablum. End of story. So far.

  325. Guess this last adventure was pretty embarrassing, Conn ought to be pissed as a rattlesnake.

    WHUPS

    OK! Never mind! Ready for trial now that we played our games and spent our money!

  326. uh huh, and ran out of money!

  327. Yeah, but I’m going to hang on the highly embarrassing fact this last pile of crap was over Warren harrassing Elissa.

    Rape victims already have enough without the abusers hounding them.

    Time to cut him to half rations.

  328. Ah, good point, Stamp. Put something out in the newspapers that destroys the credibility of the victim in the previous conviction, then ask for a date to start the trial for the next conviction. Now it all becomes clearer.

  329. Betty

    The PR savvy of Piccarretta vastly exceeds anyone on the other side of the issue.

    Whatever your feelings about Brooke, she’s still a reporter and has a very big soapbox. It seems that in some ways the Hoole brothers have almost taken a page from Warren’s playbook and is answering them nothing.

    It honestly doesn’t matter if you think a reporter has a bias. When you no longer cultivate them you risk having your side of the issue get totally lost. Even if you decide you have to cut off reporter X, that means that you need to work twice as hard to cultivate relationships with reporters Y and Z.

    FLDS Texas has Lamont’s affidavit – does any reporter for the MSM have it?

    Nationally Inquiring minds want to know.

  330. Maybe it’s time to make Brooke’s soapbox a little smaller then?

    I’m not going to click. No matter what she says.

    If she loses her job, no big deal to me. She had no problem inflicting additional pain on EW and dragging a practitioner’s name through the mud.

  331. Miele

    My issue is that if you think someone is biased, you don’t just let them hammer you from their soap box no matter how big.

    You go out and build your own soap box and hopefully make it bigger then the person you think is after you.

    Where is a report about Barlow’s affidavit? Where are any reports by the many anti-FLDS leaning journalists out there?

    Last time I checked – none.

    It’s a question of good PR versus bad PR.

  332. There are lots of objective documents here to look at. Have you been watching the site meter?

    I’m sure this was a PR strategy for Picaretta. I understand he’s got a job to do. I’m not sure when you float out something like this, and it’s found false that’s good PR. My impression is the guy looks desperate.

    Whether it’s good or bad strategy will remain to be seen. My opinion doesn’t matter, there will be twelve who’s opinions will decide it.

    In the meantime, I’m going to choose, for myself, not to give ‘clicks’ to his enablers and minions who apparently didn’t have any problem inflicting additional pain on a victim and calling into question the honesty of an innocent practitioner.

  333. I’m about done with the SLT, myself. I don’t comment on her blog much anymore, maybe two or three a month, I don’t go to Mudpucky’s except maybe once a week. I’m weaning myself off of Hugh’s site.

    I think I’ve waded in stupid and crazy long enough to get the gist of it.

  334. Here’s my take on the Lamont Barlow issue.

  335. I just sent some info to Ben Winslow. He is not an “anti-FLDS leaning journalist” but he is an excellent journalist with a wealth of knowledge about the FLDS – been covering it for many years – and he is fair and honest – sans spin.

    Hopefully, Ben will bring some truth to this matter.

  336. Whether it’s good or bad strategy will remain to be seen. My opinion doesn’t matter, there will be twelve who’s opinions will decide it.

    Miele – you raise a very big point and a very good point. The whole idea of PR in a high profile case is to prevent tainting of a potential jury pool. However, in the end, the rubber meets the road and it comes down to “put up or shut up” time in court.

  337. Anon @7:28

    Maybe you should send an invoice to the Hoole brothers for PR services…

  338. Don’t worry about that Ron, they are good guys and will owe me some Pro Bono work should I ever need it – LOL

  339. FLDS Texas has Lamont’s affidavit – does any reporter for the MSM have it?
    Nationally Inquiring minds want to know.
    Ron in Houston said this on March 3, 2010 at 6:06 PM

    Ron those documented were filed stamped March 2, 2010; time 11:06AM
    Media Alert went out at 6:10PM March 3, 2010.

    MSM

  340. Well it is about DAMN time, Brooke has finally reported Lamont Barlow’s side of the story (probably forced to by her bosses).

    http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_14507625

  341. Well it is about DAMN time, Brooke has finally reported Lamont Barlow’s side of the story (probably forced to by her bosses).

    Oh Geez. My girlfriend Brooke reports the rest of the story and all you guys can say is that the “finally” reports it and that she only did when “forced by her bosses.”

    You guys point personality disorders at folks like you really see things clearly. Sometimes I wonder how many folks are borderline personality disorder here. There sure is a lot of “black and white,” “you’re either for me or against me” type thinking.

    Seriously – look within. Often you can only see reality when you first look deeply within.

  342. Hey Ron….ommmmm~~~~ I’m loooooking deeeply within…and have discovered that I desire a Fudgesicle. (stepping away)

    back. yummy.

    Ya’know, I’m supportive of your trying to maintain a balanced perspective, and I do enjoy reading your blog posts — Thanks for those, yet, I don’t always agree with you.

    IMHO, Professional journalists *must not* be advocates, otherwise they have no integrity and have no business *fronting* themselves as unbiased. At best, Brooke should simply remove herself from reporting on topics which she is clearly and advocate.

    As to borderline personality disorder — well, if you call the other kids at the playground names, someone is gonna throw you a punch. But not me, I’m too busy with my nummy ice cream….ommmmmm 🙂

  343. You can’t be serious.

  344. Sheriff Report…”all been created in one day, to make it look like she had seen a caretaker on several different occasions.”

    Now how did we get here to……”The misstatements were a significant event at trial and were the subject of discussions afterward,” Barlow said. “That is the context in which I brought the matter up with Shannon Price. It is apparent to me that she simply misunderstood.”

    Misunderstood…HOW? ….I smell a rat.

  345. GrannyToad said: “You can’t be serious”

    Hey Granny, I can’t/won’t speak for Ron — but as myself — on occasion — the speculation about others behavioral traits/disorders can (not always), but can, get a wee bit …ummm energetically speculative.

    I find that understandable when dealing with a culture which abuses their children based on crazy thinking. It kinda makes everyone a little crazy. (says me, anyway) cheers.

  346. eh, Ron, the differential diagnosis of black and white thinking is a lot broader than borderline personality disorder…

  347. Not me. I’m always COMPLETELY rational.

  348. Ron,

    Well perhaps our NPD person is perfectly normal. But I’ve just ran across a few of them like that – so I guess together, they ARE normal. While they hang out with each other that is.

    Too bad they dont live in the same house. I think that would make for some good reality TV.

    McB, Bile, And Mo-Lester.

  349. Of course, Brooke would make a great housemate for them, although the conflicting orders she gets minute to minute might keep her as confused as she was this week.

  350. Well Ron, I have to see I tend to see Asperger’s everywhere so you do have a bit of a point. 😉

    As for Anonymous 9:06’d question, I asked that myself earlier. It’s a pretty big jump from what Lamont is saying was said to what the Sherrif says Shannon says Lamont said. I wonder where the depositions for the Sherrif and Shannon are? Frankly, I’m thinking I smell a rat too, and it smells like someone being pretty malicious to me.

  351. By the way, if any of you have ever read the Landover series by Terry Brooks you really have to read his new one, A Princess of Landover. The chapter titled Misery Loves Company has completely opened my eyes. The FLDS are actually G’home Gnomes. 😆

  352. Ron, take a look at Al’s statement on Brooke’s blog. He’s claiming some “Amirault” (might have spelled that wrong) case sets a precedent for a person who was hypnotized ever being able to give testimony again. Frankly, I don’t feel like trying to get past the censors to tell him what a numskull he is. You, however, might be feeling up to it. 😉

  353. I will sue myself anonymously on the grounds that I hypnotized myself. Being a duly licensed hypnotherapist, I’ve screwed up my chances of ever testifying against me.

    Again, I shall answer me nothing.

  354. Ron,
    Thanks for your comments here and your analysis pieces on flds legal perspectives. Good luck with trying to reason with and educate bill m and hugh m. I check their blogs once a week, but do not post there.

  355. Nah, I’m not qualified to diagnose anyone with anything. I’ve just never understood how folks pile on Brooke Adams. I’ve read her reporting over the years and just don’t see it. Yeah, she writes a fair amount of “soft” pieces on the FLDS, but that doesn’t make her biased.

    It’s like the Nat Geo piece. That was very soft on the FLDS but they did mention the crimes so it wasn’t biased.

    Anyway, I think I’m taking Miele’s approach and answering myself nothing.

  356. Chemist,
    did you ever see my “reply” to you over on TBM about my “diagnosis” of Deb Lee? Any way my comment was to effect that her issue is her issue not of all converts.

  357. My problem with Brooke is what she chooses to write about. I thought the 33 year sentence to Keates was much more news worthy than the someone heard someone say something to someone else articles that she recently posted. Yet the trib did not say a word about Keate’s sentence. Perhaps it was because it took place in Texas and the trib did not send a reporter there??

  358. hello…., Yes, I saw your post pointing out that what you said about DebLee should not be taken as applying to all LDS converts and I do agree with that. I have some by marriage LDS family in Utah whose LDS roots go way back. They also have different perspectives on mormon fundie groups. The most common reaction amongst the LDS I know is apathy. They don’t follow the flds stories, it is simply not on their radar screen. My wife is the same way. She considers my interest in it as an odd, but harmless “hobby”.

  359. So lets see the “falsified medical records” came from Pickyournose, whose client Warren said his dead father Rulon told him that God told dead Rulon that Shannon told God that Lamont told Shannon that someone lied? Yea lets run a newspaper article on those “facts” and not even bother to verify any of it, and that is considered a “professional” “unbiased” reporter?

  360. Ron,
    I like a lot of what you say and your legal opinions are always on target, but it’s almost like you are bored and want to say something you think someone will argue with just for entertainment. That means that at last resort you can always say something to apologize for Hugh, Brooke or Bill and you will get a rise out of folks here. For instance, if you want to say duane has some good points, then tell us exactly what he has said that you value; was it his fascination with Miley Cyrus or his linking us to malware sites that most moved you to sympathy with him?

    Brooke’s name was not on a single article that did not make things look good for the FLDS for almost a year. She has made a big deal out of trespassing, allowed commentary that literally called Elissa Wall a whore even when she was not the topic of the article while blocking commentary that produced facts, and then she is completely silent on the issue that Keate’s own daughter’s fates contributed to his long sentence. That’s not being SOFT, that’s being BIASED in favor of people who allow their children to be raped. I’m sorry, but I find your support of her to be pure sophistry as if this were high school debate team and not real human rights violations going on. How someone can report on the FLDS and not keep their eyes on the real crime they are committing is beyond me.

  361. Ron

    Here is a quiz, there are other sites that list the traits, and if someone exhibits a percentage of them, BINGO.

    Ya dont need a degree in psychology to spot a problem.

    http://psychcentral.com/quizzes/narcissistic.htm

    BTW I know someone who was under a doctors care, but the diagnosis was wrong, and by word of mouth it was guessed what it was by a friend, and an internet search confirmed the symptoms matched the friends diagnosis.

    Surgery saved that persons life the next morning.

  362. OK after reading the little ones last post this AM I am going to coin a new phrase for that particular condition:

    “Paranoid Napolean”

  363. I think it’s OK to make observations about a person’s behavior and conclude that the behavior appears to be crazy. I think it’s OK to say that if you were friends, you would recommend that someone get help. But not even a professional (maybe especially not a professional) should diagnose over the internet.

  364. Did anyone see this piece yet about child brides?
    It is written by Nicholas Kristof, who coauthored “Half the Sky” with his wife, Cheryl Wu – Dun.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/opinion/04kristof.html

  365. Admin: Could you post part 2 of the ABC interview with Dr Michael Welner?
    I would appreciate it.

  366. Normally I dont take swipes at that, but his posts diagnosing Rozita set the bar for him.

    “HE” certainly has no room to complain after exhibiting his behavior in that regard on his site.

    Also, I have posted a few websites that show symptoms and warning signs.

    Everyone can come to their own conclusion.

    And indeed, it wouldnt be proper for a professional to do that on the internet, unless it was a private email, and that would be tacky but circumstances probably dictate that it happens.

  367. catwhisperer: If Nujood were FLDS they’d happily already ‘blood atone’ the child.

  368. Granny, I am inclined to agree.

  369. I wonder at the motivation of someone who would take a child bride … what is it that they are looking for ? dominance and control of a vulnerable individual…any other thoughts?

  370. ““HE” certainly has no room to complain after exhibiting his behavior in that regard on his site.”

    I agree with this. I also agree with posting symptoms and letting people make up their own minds. Actually, I think that teaching mental health knowledge in public schools is a great idea; how to tell what is or is not psychological abuse, for instance. It is so unfortunate that people often learn that in a women’s shelter group session or similar, and don’t know it at the start of a relationship.

  371. article on the effects of underage marriage on girls :
    http://www.cdc.gov/Ncidod/EID/vol12no11/06-0510.htm

  372. Warren sez it’s to keep the children from getting away or to put it another way, having their own way or choice of mate – yes, control, and to make more babies, and to defy state laws. It’s all in his writings.

  373. CW, I don’t understand why an 8 year old is attractive to anyone in the first place. I think you appetites have to be set by your own abuse or witnessing such abuse, personally. From what they say, there is a fascination with innocence and of course the desire to train and develop your own sex slave at an age when such training is easier to accomplish.

  374. Catwhisperer, thanks for the link. I like the way it makes a huge point of the fact that education of women is such an important fact in a stable society. Too bad the FLDS aren’t going to read this article, maybe it would do some good.

    I think men want children for dominance and control myself. They want someone they can intimidate and break into a docile slave. Frankly, men who do so aren’t real men in my book.

    I also found it interesting the link between young batchelors and violence in a society. It would appear that this country disproves a long a poster’s insistence that polygamy is perfectly possible mathematically with no men losing out on wives. (Not in countries where it’s practiced legally it isn’t. And it doesn’t appear to me that the young men of the FLDS were getting married either.)

  375. Here is another link on child brides :
    http://www.iiav.nl/ezines/web/AmericanUniversityJournal/2004/No2/american/warner.pdf

  376. Anyone who says the math works out is lying or incredibly stupid, especially in a closed system that does not take converts.

  377. I was reading over the commnets about brookes reporting. I went back to the OLD blog from last year and read some of her stories…
    1. She does report facts, she however is different from other reporters in the fact, she interjects her own opionons on the stories she writes, not only on her blog but her newspaper articles on the SLT

    2. she did a story about Berry Knoll last year,, although she talked to several people,, she interjected her own opinions into the piece.This is an excert of the piece, AFTER she had done her interview.

    “Which brings me to another question: Really? A builder from Centennial Park really plans to build an open-market subdivision in the community’s backyard?

    Perhaps there is a need for more housing for Centennial Park’s growing population, but I have a hard time believing the plan calls for construction of affordable homes that will be available to, say, current or former FLDS or complete strangers from Las Vegas or Los Angeles.

    I am betting it is far more likely the land is going to be banked. Literally and figuratively.”

    *************
    As you can see, she has added her bias to the story, without knowing all the facts.
    http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/2008_10_01_archive.html

  378. This month’s Safety Net Committee meeting begins in 20 minutes online here – http://www.ustream.tv/channel/utah-attorney-general

    Great way to start your day.

    I wonder if Shannon Price will show up?

  379. Tonight is Half the Sky Live :
    Here is the link :
    http://www.ncm.com/Fathom/OriginalPrograms/event/Half_The_Sky.aspx

  380. Statements that caught my attention in the first article Catwhisperer linked:

    “These are not necessarily heartless parents but, rather, parents who are surviving under heartless conditions.”

    I wonder if that doesn’t describe a lot of the FLDS mothers?

    “As a result, these young girls have high total fertility rates but have missed the opportunities to be children: to play, develop friendships, bond, become educated, and build social skills.”

    I wonder if this isn’t a very big reason why the girls “rescued” at the YFZ haven’t been able to see it as a rescue.

    “Child marriage and polygamy play an important role in another deadly disease, cervical cancer.”

    I wonder what the cervical cancer rate in the FLDS is. Granted, they may not have a high incidence of the HPV virus but it’s only a matter of time before it gets a grip on their community. Then what?

    “Because pregnancy suppresses the immune system (28), pregnant girls are at increased risk of acquiring diseases like malaria.”

    Granted, Utah isn’t a hotbed of malaria infection but what else might these immunologically suppressed girls be contracting and how does it impact their health and the fetus’ health?

    “The problem with children delivering children is that the young mothers are at a significantly higher risk than older women for debilitating illness and even death.”

    Yes, that is why civilized societies frown very strongly on underage marriage and childbirth. Pay attention FLDS.

    “Many times, obstructed labor leads to fistulas; the pressure of the fetal head on the vaginal wall causes tissue necrosis, and fistulas develop between the vagina and the bladder or rectum after the necrotic tissue sloughs. More than 2 million adolescents are living with fistulas, and fistulas develop in ≈100,000 more each year (35). Girls ages 10–15 years are especially vulnerable because their pelvic bones are not ready for childbearing and delivery. Their risk for fistula is as high as 88% (36). Once a fistula is formed, fecal or urinary incontinence and peroneal nerve palsy may result and may lead to humiliation, ostracism, and resultant depression. Unless the fistula is surgically repaired, these girls have limited chances of living a normal life and bearing children.”

    I wonder how many FLDS have, or have been treated for, fistulas.

    “Child marriage affects more than the young girls; the next generation is also at higher risk for illness and death. Adolescent mothers have a 35%–55% higher risk than older women for delivering infants who are preterm and of low birthweight. Mortality rates are 73% higher for infants born to mothers <20 years of age than for those born to older mothers (37).”

    And:

    “Even the mortality rate for children 20 years (38).”

    I think that’s evident in the high numbers of child deaths recorded for Short Creek. And I’m sure those numbers are vastly under reported. I doubt seriously they’re recording stillbirths and miscarriages and the like. I would love to see accurate information being gathered by the government. It’s really time they got actual facts about the damage this practice is causing.

    “Child marriage has far-reaching health, social, economic, and political implications for the girl and her community. It truncates a girl’s childhood, creates grave physical and psychological health risks, and robs her of internationally recognized human rights. Ending child marriage requires the consent of all those involved, including fathers and religious, community, and tribal leaders. To break the cycle of poverty, programs are needed to educate and empower women.”

    Excellent summation and sooooo applicable to the FLDS situation.

  381. MaryKay 42 sumpthin

    “The FLDS members are people too and they deserve as much respect as you give to Ellisa and Dan”

    ===================================

    42, this is about the child molesters of the FLDS, and NO they deserve no respect, they deserve prison time.

    If an FLDS person follows the law and properly takes care of themselves and family, THEY I will respect.

  382. If you read about young people who have left the group of Flds, boys and girls, you KNOW that most have no capability or skill of managing in the outside world.
    Most have either been or are drugs, alcohol. Most no longer have ANY religious or Belief in any God.
    Most are struggling with guilt, thrown on them by parents or leadership or the prophet. Most are struggling with suicidal thoughts.

    Yes most have internet, but technology isn’t the same as living nor adapting to the outside world. Most are still struggling to keep jobs, or get jobs. Most don’t trust anyone after they have left. They are told to stay away from apostates, or gentiles. So they are left to find their own way, without family , or relationships.
    It would be like one us, taken to a forgein country, where we knew nothing about it, and being left alone to deal with it.

  383. anyone know who the people at the meeting are?

  384. whose the grey haired guy with the suit on?helooks like Harry Reid?

  385. A good read on how to deal with the NPD person – if you happen to know one.

    ================

    “Decide to have no contact with the narcissist, if possible. Because you can’t change the narcissist, you should stay away from him to keep your own mental health and stability. Ignore him in social settings, don’t answer the door if he shows up at your house, don’t answer the phone when he calls and don’t return emails. If you live with him and it’s possible, either move out or demand that he does.

    Step 4

    Avoid discussions with the narcissist unless you have a witness and the discussion is absolutely required, such as for legal reasons. People with narcissistic personality disorder are masters of manipulation whether it’s actively manipulating you or twisting your words so they mean something other than what you actually intend.”

    http://www.ehow.com/how_2384214_deal-narcissistic-personality-disorder.html

  386. March 3, 2010 12:59 PM EST by John Stossel
    Keep Your Laws Off My Body

    On my Fox Business show this week (Thursday at 8pm & 11pm ET), we’ll look at Prohibition. Not the disastrous alcohol prohibition of the 1920’s, but today’s prohibitions against recreational drugs, prostitution, polygamy, and other consensual activities between competent adults. It’s also the subject of my syndicated column this week. Our government loves to think it can solve “problems” by banning something. But bans create more problems than they solve:

    Read more: http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2010/03/03/keep-your-laws-off-my-body/#ixzz0hE27Q3Hh

  387. Dd, the video feed just stopped, so I can’t see who you’re referring to.

    From your description it sounds like Lloyd Pendelton who is in charge of trying to eliminating homelessness.

    President Bush required each state to address prolonged homelessness over a 10 year process.

    LLoyd was selected by former governor Jon Huntsman to do several pilot programs in Utah.

    One of these pilot programs involved the homeless youth – particularly the Lost Boys of polygamy.

    He was involved in initially funding the “House Just Off Bluff” where 8 Lost boys lived.

    That safe house was shut down by the City of St. George, internal fights, local bureaucracy and other BS.

  388. “It would be like one us, taken to a forgein country, where we knew nothing about it, and being left alone to deal with it.”

    No, DD, it’s worse than that. If I was plopped down in a foreign country and told to deal it would be really tough but I would still have my self esteem and the basic coping skills I’ve learned over many years of functioning in the real world. The FLDS generally don’t even have that and they’re crippled by the message that they are doomed to hellfire and damnation in addition. Your analogy is probably as close as anyone could come but it still fails to show the real scope of the adjustment the FLDS face when leaving a totalitarian environment for one which values independence, decision making skills and a solid sense of self worth.

    I think the people leaving Asia for America have faced similar issues, so it isn’t a religious problem but rather a “thou shalt not think” problem.

  389. OMG a Safety Net Speaker bureau?

  390. Piddypat, do you have an actual plan for how these activities between so-called “consensual adults” will not cost taxpayers money? Or are you just whining that the government won’t let you do whatever you want to. The truth is “recreational drugs” ruins lives, as does polygamy — and it screws up children as well as the supposed consensual adults (and we’ve seen how well polygamists stick to those, haven’t we) and prostitution encourages unsafe sexual behaviors that lead to the spread in STDs. Taxpayers end up footing the bills for most of the ills of these activities. Unless you have a plan to prevent this you’re simply part of the problem, not a solution.

  391. DD, the people at the meeting are a “Gentile Mixer” of social service providers and members of some of the polygamous groups in Utah and Arizona.

    Most of the people are from:

    Utah AG office; Domestic Violence shelters; Job Corps, Dept of Workforce Services; AZ Department of Disabilities; Arizona Dept. of Economic Security; Safety Net Committee head and case manager; Utah Homeless project; Utah and Arizona CPS, etc.

    Members of the Kingston Group; Centennial Park; AUB (Allred Group); Principle Voices of Polygamy and FLDS (Lawrence Barlow).

  392. MarkKay, 42 and??
    You don’t get respect. You earn respect by being a decent human being. For example, by paying child support so you are not a deadbeat dad like merril is.

  393. well the sound on this meeting sucks,,, but I didnt hear a male say something about HE represents flds

  394. Let me clarify something I posted above about the closing of the House Just Off Bluff in St. George.

    The “internal fighting” comment was not meant to imply that the boys living there were fighting among themselves.

    The “internal fighting” involved local government agencies that got involved with running the house, social workers directly involved with the boys, funding agencies, the man who donated the house, the Family Support Center and the Safety Net coordinator and case manager and the City of St. George (not in my back yard!)

  395. DD, that is Lawrence Barlow who is the only member from the FLDS who participates in this Safety Net Committee. The meeting is taking place in Salt Lake City and they are in a teleconference linked with people at a central location in St. George. Lawrence is in St. George with that group teleconferencing in with SLC group.

    You should splurge for new speakers for your PC. My audio is great, although I did have to crank up the volume on my speakers.

  396. yeah your probably right,, my moniter speakers suck

  397. Pic just never gives up living in LA LA land
    http://www.mohavecourts.com/highprofile/743-Reply%20to%20Response%20and%20Opposition%20to%20Motion%2003-03-10.pdf

  398. wow emails and all, LOL

  399. He’s an artist at leaving out the pertinent information, like this document was not part of Elissa’s testimony, and that they haven’t taken a single step to investigate the validity of the documents and thus prove or disprove this claim.

  400. weird how this was talked about in January, huh? according to the document

  401. isnt that called “grasping at straws”?

  402. isnt that called “grasping at straws”?

    Well, it’s discovery. Depending on who you’re talking to it’s either “looking for the smoking gun” or “a fishing expedition.”

    What’s amazing about Piccanosey is that he goes to all this expense to file a bunch a paperwork over Lamont Barlow before he interviews Shannon Price.

  403. HE HE

    He’s exercising himself in front of the judge.

  404. Hmmm, Stamp is it exercising or exorcising?

  405. He may well be exorcised by the time he’s done playing with this little firecracker.

    What I dont get is what this has to do with Arizona, Pic or Judge Conn.

    That trial happened in Utah. Are we going to try the Texas cases in Arizona too? I know Napoleon Dynamite thinks so, if ya saw his last post.

    Man, he is worked up over it too, but he forgot, though he’s got all the right ingredients for a good Fruitcake, the oven is in the house not out in the barn.

  406. Rebeckah

    Read that post again. I did not write it. You are preaching to the crowd.
    Those were John Stossel thoughts and his TV show comes on FOXBusiness tonight at 8PM Eastern Time.

    You can post your comments on his blog at http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/2010/03/03/keep-your-laws-off-my-body/#ixzz0hE27Q3Hh

  407. lol, oh, piddypat, I sincerely apologize. I was a bit muzzy this morning. 🙂

  408. Ale said:
    You don’t get respect. You earn respect by being a decent human being.

    ==============================================================

    I guess this is the main difference in views. Even unpopular people deserve to have their rights respected.

    Judges like Walters and Lindberg decide who should receive rights rather than treating everyone as a human deserving respect and rights.

    We’ll see how Federal Courts agree with their determination only certain people get rights.

  409. “I guess this is the main difference in views. Even unpopular people deserve to have their rights respected.”

    And I believe children are people who deserve to have their rights respected.

  410. Mary Kay et alia is confused. It’s FLDS who pretend they decide who gets any rights. Any at all.

  411. MaryKay can give deadbeat dad merril all the respect she wants. I will give mine to his ex wife and his children that he has failed to provide for even though ordered to do so by courts. I also have no respect for warren who counseled merril on moving assets so the courts could not get the child support by going after merril’s assets. All the morals of a dmn tomcat. Respect your wonderful flds heros all you want mary kay, but count me out. They have earned only my contempt by their ACTIONS.

  412. hey ron or any other lawyer here, can the defense try to undo the search warrant in leroy’s trial? i thought that issue had already been decided and didn’t realize it was a topic for juries to decide.

  413. i checked with the utah supreme court and no opinions will be issued tomorrow. next chance is tuesday the 9th, maybe we’ll hear something while leroy’s trial is going on.

  414. keate didn’t wait to see if he qualified for the county to pick up the tab for his appeal, it was filed on 2/8 along with raymond’s.

  415. hey ron or any other lawyer here, can the defense try to undo the search warrant in leroy’s trial? i thought that issue had already been decided and didn’t realize it was a topic for juries to decide.

    Generally, it’s never an issue for the jury to decide. I don’t do a whole lot of criminal but I’ve never heard of what Leroy’s attorney is talking about.

    I haven’t seen the motion or the arguments behind it, but it sounds so far out in left field as to be out of the ball park. Walther won’t allow it for certain.

  416. OK lets compare the FLDS men indicted for sexual assault of children (and many, many more that have not been indicted) with Brian David Mitchell and Phillip Garrido. All have taken little girls from their families and raped them. In the cases of the FLDS men and Phillip Garrido impregnated little girls and fathered children with little girls. The only difference is in the cases of the FLDS men the parents of the little girls are accomplishes to the crime. In the case of the FLDS little girls the parents are extreme abusers that not only sell their daughters into sexual slavery, they groom their little girls to accept the rape and not complain, they train their daughters to perpertrate a criminal lifestyle and teach them if they don’t they are damned by “God”.

    So why are the defenders of the FLDS men not screaming for the freedom of Brian David Mitchell and Phillip Garrido? The defenders of the FLDS men “explain” that it is terrible to jail the FLDS men because they are being separated from their children? Their children and the little girls that they raped (who may or may not be adults at this time) are being deprived of the financial support of their rapists. What about the 2 children fathered by Phillip Garrido to Jaycee Dugard? Aren’t Jaycee and those 2 children being deprived of Phillip’s financial support? Aren’t those 2 children being separated from their father? Why aren’t the defenders of the FLDS men screaming about the “injustice” of this?

  417. Phillip doesnt drink the same flavor of joy juice. Plus, his pesky timing was off – he was captured right in the middle of the FLDS drama and brought additional light to the plight of sexually abused children.

    Such bad timing, and he was a religious nutter too.

    So, they pretend it didnt happen. Even Brooke ignored that, and the even closer case of Tony Alamo with his 175 yr sentence.

    To the person paying attention, its obvious child molesters arent getting a free ride anymore, at least not in the more civilized areas of our great country.

    I would say that Mohave co AZ and Kane Co Utah are not civilized areas in this wonderful nation, but rather festering infected warts on our society.

    Maybe they can cure it with “Safety Net Meetings” – NAAH I think its gonna take a lot more than that.

  418. Actually, Dymphna, they may well be. There is a very vocal group claiming that Mr. Mitchell has been framed, that Elizabeth WANTED to be his sex slave, that her father GAVE her to Mitchell and stuff like that. Very disturbing and vile. Right up the alley of many of the pro-child abuse posters here.

  419. Rebeckah

    Thats true! I think its a mix of people who hate Ed Smart for some reason, or are allied with Ricci ( who unfortunately died in custody ) and freinds /relatives of Brians. Or perhaps simple independent pligs trying to defend another.

    Their posts will remind you of several of the PPPP. They often re-victimize poor ES online. The trib has been careless and let the bulk of it stand.

  420. Can anyone in the Eldorado area get a copy of the appeal filed by Raymond Jessop and Allan Keate?

    It would be some interesting and entertaining reading.

  421. And those bad acts!

  422. There is a very vocal group claiming that Mr. Mitchell has been framed, that Elizabeth WANTED to be his sex slave, that her father GAVE her to Mitchell and stuff like that. Very disturbing and vile. Right up the alley of many of the pro-child abuse posters here.

    Yeah, now that you mention it, that does sound quite familiar.

    Over at Brooke’s site someone used the phrase “no complaining victims.” I called them out over the irony of that statement. The person admits they’re victim just that they don’t complain.

  423. Anon @ 10:11

    About the only thing filed in El Dorado that might be interesting on the appeals is the motions for new trial. The real “beef” of the appeals would be the briefs that are filed in the 3rd COA.

  424. Of course they cant complain – because those that do, get sent off to houses of hard work and hiding, and you may get your parents exed.

    Warren says so.

  425. Ron,Everytime I see your “tin foil”hat, it makes me hungry for hersheys kisses,, lol 🙂

  426. DD

    It does look like a Hershey Kiss. Full size you can see it’s a foil hat but at that resolution it’s a Hershey kiss for sure.

  427. “I have a couple of acquaintances who could legitimately be called Kooks of the Tin Foil hat variety. You probably know the type ~ from having come across one in a ‘religious’ forum on the Internet”

    http://fermentation.typepad.com/fermentation/2007/06/wheres-my-tin-f.html

  428. Huge McEgo is apparently insisting that you must agree with him that suppression of the YFZ evidence in Arizona means that the raid was illegal. If you don’t then he wants you to pack up your bags and go home. I called him a “big poopey head,” but his ego is way too fragile to post those comments.

    If you’re curious here’s a little post on suppression.

    In the meantime, come on poopie head, buck up and post my comments.

  429. LMAO

    No Hugh, you cant cook Fruitcake in the barn, ya gotsta go in the house and use the oven.

    I saw where he insisted that you need to admit this Arizona poohockey means something, or else he wont allow you to post anymore.

    Funny, there arent many posting there anyways, besides the ever delightful I_HATE_BIGOTS.

    For some reason Hughy McLouie never calls 42sumpthin a “nothing” huh?

  430. Ron in Houston,
    I appreciate your efforts in trying to apprise members of the PPSG regarding factual information and the law in this case, however, they are too emotional to listen to reason,science and facts.
    I don’t know why you bother – but I still appreciate you.
    Have a great weekend.

  431. Your problem cat is there is a group of people who are able to reason and see BOTH sides of an issue.

    You think if you shout loud enough about the bad acts of some FLDS members, people won’t see YOUR bad acts. Your goal is to get people blinded so much by hate they will give your group a get out of jail free card.

    The real truth is people critical of this site do understand some members broke some laws but we also understand there is good and bad within any group or community.

    Unlike your little group, I also understand bad acts committed by Government workers are a thousand times more dangerous to society than a private individual.

    I know there is almost no hope of changing this groups mind. Just like there is almost no hope of your group changing FLDS member’s minds. But there is the 95% of the population who doesn’t fall within these extreme views. Those are the people who are going to start being educated about you.

  432. MaryKay,

    What bad acts are you talking about? You mean like fraudulent conveyance of funds, abandonment of wives and children on instruction of the prophet, giving your under aged daughters to Warren Jeffs as sex slaves, things like that? Do you really believe that people who post here do things that are anwhere NEAR that bad?

    Where have you ever read CW proposing hate? Hmmmmm? Show me a comment that was hateful. Mostly CW posts facts and educational references about studies on polygamy.

    I believe that you are wrong about the general population. Although many people I know think that polygamy is not harmful, almost everyone I have talked to thinks that an arranged marriage of a girl under 16 to a man twice her age is the same as selling her into slavery.

    You are right about one thing. If you never post anything but irrational and emotional tripe like that, you will never convince anyone that you are in the right.

  433. And once again Marykay spuuuters! and sputters about non existant stuff she knows nothing about

  434. But? But? But? What if ? What if? Marykay,, if we lived on another planet maybe what you sputter would work, but come BACK to reality, and see the world girl!

  435. Mary Kay,
    Whatever are you talking about?
    I’m a scientist.
    I deal with objective facts and reason.
    The objective scientific literature reveals that polygyny harms women and children.
    Fact.
    The objective scientific facts reveal that when a young girl is made a child bride, it has a negative effect on her physical and psychological well being, as well as a negative effect on the health and well being of her child.
    I don’t have to shout about it, the facts speak for themselves.
    What objective scientific, empirical data do you possess which indicates that polygyny benefits women, children, or society in general?
    You rely on emotion and vitriol.
    I rely on science.
    There is a difference.

  436. Geez Louise!

    Mention tin foil hats and looks who pops up outa her gopher hole!

    Mary Kay / I_HATE_BIGOTS / 42 and sumpthin’

  437. OK Mary Kay I am becoming convinced that no matter how much empirical facts, FLDS records are released or evidence appears in the court room that persons like yourself will just shift their stance and shove their respective heads further down into the sand. Any feline member like CW and ourselves can see your ostrich position for what it is and recognize that you are the exception and not the rule. The posters here still exceeds hundreds of hits per day and your sole opinion is tolerated here but it is a distinct minority view. Maybe you should share your unfounded views at http://www.truthwillprevail.org if your seeking some ‘Chosen Ones’.

    If you care to pull your head out of the sand you might see more clearly what is really transpiring.

  438. Marykay you must be new here and arrived while I have been on a short sabbatical.

    Let me welcome you to this blog.

    FU,
    Love Fred

  439. Cat everyone agrees child abuse is wrong. You and all the anti-polygamy posters are the ones with a narrow definition.

    What you don’t get is what was done during the YFZ raid by CPS and the hoax callers is also a very serious form of child abuse.

    Like most abusers, they believe other people made them abuse the children or it was good for the kids to be abused like that.

    Completing your classes for an advanced degree doesn’t magically make you unbiased. (Though from your previous posts, I think you hold this belief). Look at the Nazis – plenty of scientists performing the worst abuses – all based on a logical analysis.

    The people who planned the hoax are a hundred times more dangerous than Warren and the potential for additional harm is much greater.

    For your little plot to be exposed, all it’s going to take is just one person to understand the harm the raid caused the children. Just one……..Federal crimes have a long statute of limitations….plenty of time….I’ll wait…..

  440. Thank you, Fred.

  441. Fred

    LOL

    MaryKay says its still snowing in Chicagoland and her pink Caddy is stuck in a snowdrift.

    Oh, wait it was an orange datsun…

  442. Over at Brooke’s site someone used the phrase “no complaining victims.” I called them out over the irony of that statement. The person admits they’re victim just that they don’t complain.

    Ron in Houston said this on March 5, 2010 at 11:29 AM

    I just love “lawyerese” lingo ron.

    And thanks for the clarification on where the good stuff on the appeals it to be found.

    So, can you get ahold of those real “beef” of the appeals briefs that are filed in the 3rd COA by chance please?

  443. MaryKay,
    NOT ONE HAIR OR ANYTHING ELSE ON ONE CHILD’S HEAD was Abused by the State of Texas or CPS or CASA.
    PLEASE PLEASE SHOW US DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE WHERE ‘ONE’ CHILD WAS HARMED, ABUSED , NOT FED, NOT TAKEN CARE OF IF ONE WAS SICK FROM FLDS WHILE IN CUSTODY OF THE STATE OF TEXAS??? EVIDENCE MARYKAY, NOT HERESAY OR WHAT BILL MEDVECKY KEEPS RANTING ABOUT (which by the way he has no documented proof either) AND WE WILL BE GLAD TO POST IT RIGHT HERE!!!
    OTHERWISE, shut the Hell UP!

  444. “Cat everyone agrees child abuse is wrong.”

    Not that I’ve seen. I’ve seen quite a few posters claiming that child abuse is just fine and dandy. They call it religious freedom, “allowing” children to be “mature”, and lots of other tripe.

    “You and all the anti-polygamy posters are the ones with a narrow definition.”

    The one where we believe it’s child abuse to deny children a decent childhood and a chance to grow up before being thrust into adult roles? What on earth would you have against that?

    “What you don’t get is what was done during the YFZ raid by CPS and the hoax callers is also a very serious form of child abuse.”

    Bull. I’ve been in CPS care and I had my son in CPS care — neither of us were abused OR traumatized. If these children were then it is simply one fine example of a problem their parents have with good parenting techniques.

    “Like most abusers, they believe other people made them abuse the children or it was good for the kids to be abused like that.”

    What abuse? Prove some. ANY proof at all will do. Just what did CPS do that abused the children?

    “Completing your classes for an advanced degree doesn’t magically make you unbiased. (Though from your previous posts, I think you hold this belief). Look at the Nazis – plenty of scientists performing the worst abuses – all based on a logical analysis.”

    A good education tends to help one to think logically and rationally, however. You clearly quit your education before you got that far.

    “The people who planned the hoax are a hundred times more dangerous than Warren and the potential for additional harm is much greater.”

    Once again, what people? Do you have anything other than a vivid imagination to back up this conspiracy theory of yours? Nope, I didn’t think so.

    “For your little plot to be exposed, all it’s going to take is just one person to understand the harm the raid caused the children.”

    What plot? Did you just accuse Catwhisperer of some sort of plot? Of possibly illegal or medically unethical behavior? Do you know what a lie is? ‘Cause you’re pretty close to telling a whopper there.

    “Just one……..Federal crimes have a long statute of limitations….plenty of time….I’ll wait…..”

    Don’t hold your breath — you’ll get more brain damaged than you already are.

  445. MaryKay, not ONCE have documented anything you say,, Everything you have said to date is heresay.

    Heresay:an item of idle or unverified information or gossip; rumor

  446. Marykay, since you choose to focus on the results of the YFZ Rescue attempt as being the primary form of child abuse, yet you say you’re against abuse let’s have your comments about the original acts of abuse that caused the YFZ Ranch to be searched:

    1.) How did over 425 Children come to covertly reside on the YFZ Ranch? Weren’t they moved to Texas from Short Creek over 1,000miles away from the only home and life they had ever known?

    2.) ‘Child Brides’ were brought from Short Creek and Canada from their homesteads to be trafficked into plural marriages bigamous marriages by unlicensed ministers at the YFZ Ranch.

    3.) Nine of these marriages have resulted in sexual assault charges, with three guilty verdicts made and six remaining charges yet set for trial.
    Impregnating 16year old and younger girls is abusive.

    4.) Many of the children as revealed by ‘Priesthood Record’ were taken from their parents in Short Creek and brought to the YFZ Ranch. Wouldn’t this be a traumatic and longer lasting abuse period.

    5.) To date 55+children of the 439 children returned to the YFZ Ranch were living with now sexual assault convicted felons. This total of children returned to felony households looks to exceed 100+ children from the remaining six charges for sexual assault.

    You desire to ignore the causation and illegal acts that lead up to the YFZ Rescue ignores these crimes and abuses that had already been perpetuated by FLDS Church priesthood members.
    Do you care to comment about these abuses or just your limited focus of abuses?

  447. The people who planned the hoax are a hundred times more dangerous than Warren and the potential for additional harm is much greater.

    Marykay said this on March 5, 2010 at 5:55 PM

    So, please tell me who these “people who planned the hoax” are.

    It is my understanding that a Colorado woman who might be the (sadly) mentally disturbed person who made a phone call to the DV shelter which lead to the investigation of child abuse at the YFZ Ranch.

    This is the first I have heard about PEOPLE WHO PLANNED THE HOAX.

    Please share your inside information, the names of these people and your source for this information.

    If my understanding of the situation is incorrect, please share your facts with me so that I can consider this new information.

    Thanks much.

  448. This MaryKay guy is one of the “sane exam” hoaxers, right?

  449. Marykay, sorry but I missed your comment above about there being “hoax callers”. Again, it was my understanding that there was just one caller.

    Were these “hoax callers” the same “people who planned the hoax”? Or were just some of them the same?

    PLEASE share your information with me and help me understand just what happened.

    It sounds like you have the inside scoop on this and I am begging for facts!

  450. Mary Kay,
    There is no evidence that there was more than one caller to CPS, thus, there is no evidence of “conspiracy.”
    There is no evidence which supports the claim that CPS harmed any of the children.
    There is no objective data which supports any of your claims.

  451. It appears that Mary Kay has identified me as a member of a cabal….if it wasn’t so amusing, I might actually be upset.

    ???????????????

  452. Soo, MaryKay,
    You don’t think harm was done to the children when Warren kicked out over 200 men and within a 24 hour period had assigned the men to other ‘father’s?? where the children could not even take pictures of their real Dad with them? Where they had to figure into a hierarchy of other large families and Warren told them they would take on the DNA of their new priesthood father?? That did nto happen just once but several times to those children when their mother was reassigned. There where oodles of children in Texas without their real father and mother. Warren only allowed the most ardent followers to go there.
    Read the documentation that is well provided for on this blog.It’s all there and more.The last courst cases shows young girls being reassigned 2, 3 times with their children.

  453. MaryKay,,, “Drive by” HAHAHHAHA 🙂

  454. “For your little plot to be exposed, all it’s going to take is just one person to understand the harm the raid caused the children. Just one……..Federal crimes have a long statute of limitations….plenty of time….I’ll wait…..”

    Wow. Now we’re involved in a plot and are going to jail? Girl friend, get back on your meds!

  455. This is usually the point he/she frightens itself.

  456. It’s scary when you live in a world filled with deep, dark and very convoluted conspiracies.

    You might want to lay off the caffiene, though, Mary. It would help your nerves some.

  457. FLDS Texas it looks like we are about to max out Open Discussion #27, as it is rapidly approaching 500 comments.

    May I suggest that you start a couple of new threads?

    One regarding the 4th YFZ FLDS member’s “sexual assault against a child” trial starting Monday in Tom Green County, Texas against Merril Leroy Jessop.

    And a new open discussion thread where Miele answers them nothing and Fred answers them FU.

    Just suggestions.

    Thanks in advance for keeping communications open, truthful evidence flowing and paying for this forum.

    Cheers!

  458. ‘San Angelo Standard’ article on next Monday’s sexual assault trial for Leroy Merril Jessop:

    ‘FLDS: Sex assault trial set Monday’
    “Sect member first to be tried in San Angelo

    By Matthew Waller

    Originally published 02:16 p.m., March 5, 2010
    Updated 08:46 p.m., March 5, 2010

    SAN ANGELO, Texas — The trial of a member of the polygamist sect Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints begins Monday as Merril Leroy Jessop, 35, faces charges of sexual assault of a child, a first-degree felony.

    Jessop’s trial will be the first of several criminal trials of sect members to take place in San Angelo.

    The prosecution will be headed by Eric Nichols of the Texas Attorney General’s Office. He has been the lead prosecutor for the past three FLDS prosecutions.

    Lubbock attorney Daniel Hurley will take up Jessop’s defense.

    Fifty-first District Court Judge Barbara Walther will preside over the trial as she has the previous three cases.

    Jessop is the fourth of 10 men from the Yearning for Zion Ranch in Schleicher County who have been indicted to stand trial. The remaining six have trials scheduled through December”.

    [Portion of full article reprinted].

  459. Thanks CaJim!

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2010/mar/05/next-trial-of-flds-member-to-start-monday/?comments_id=126885

  460. Bookings – 03/06/10 Washington County Sheriffs Office

    COOKE, BENJAMIN MARION
    Birth Date: 01/27/91
    Address : P.O. BOX 216, Colorado City, AZ
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    08:18:59 03/06/10 Benson, Trevor WCJL

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    COMMITMENT COMMITMENT-COURT ORDE NA MOJP 0.00 [No Payments Made]
    ___________

    ROHBOCK, JESSICA R
    Birth Date: 12/23/91
    Address : PO BOX 841647, HILDALE, UT
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    23:30:00 03/05/10 Cooke, Curtis HILD

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    41-6a-1404 PARKING VIOLATION-ROA CM WCJ2 25.00 [No Payments Made]
    41-6a-1604 HEADLIGHT VIOLATION CM WCJ2 40.00 [No Payments Made]
    76-10-105 TOBACCO-MINOR POSSESS CM WCJ2 100.00 [No Payments Made]
    32A-12-209 ALCOHOL- MINOR CONSUM BM WCJ2 500.00 [No Payments Made]
    76-8-306(3)c OBSTRUCT JUSTICE AM WCJ2 595.00 [No Payments Made]
    ___________
    JOHNSON, DAVID SUNDERLAND
    Birth Date: 05/20/85
    Address : 14204 NORTHEAST FIFTEENTH ST., vancuver, WA
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    14:00:43 03/05/10 Mock, Stephen WCJL

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    COMMITMENT COMMITMENT-COURT ORDE BM WCJ7 [No Payments Made]

    See their mug shots
    https://news.washeriff.net/bookings/

  461. I know there is almost no hope of changing this groups mind. Just like there is almost no hope of your group changing FLDS member’s minds. But there is the 95% of the population who doesn’t fall within these extreme views. Those are the people who are going to start being educated about you.
    …………………………….

    Don’t hold your breath waiting for mainstream America to start supporting the FLDS practice of giving underage girls to middle aged men.

  462. Actually main stream americans who are not part of “this group”, (whatever that is), have voiced their opinions. Gov. Perry won a majority in a 3 way race, Judges Lindverg and Walthers retaines by large margins, Sheriff Doran won his election by a large margin.
    AG Shurtleff of Utah was re-elected by a large margin after prosecuting warren jeffs and getting him convicted and imprisoned.

  463. Left one out of my previous post. State Rep Hildebran was re-elected by a wide margin. His so called anti flds bill did not hurt him at all. In fact, it looks like to win elections politicians and judges should take a stance against flds practices and policies.

  464. What I dont get is why minor Rohbock is charged with obstruction of justice and only one or two FLDS face this after hiding Warren for so long.

  465. Scientology is taking some big hits, turns out they are abusive too!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/07/us/07scientology.html

  466. Stamp, she was arrested by Curtis Cooke – a Hildale (FLDS) Police Officer – that’s why.

  467. MaryKay why haven’t you written any response to my five topics, above? Did Cat get your tongue?

    It is really telling how the indignation of occasional posters causes them to disappear when confronted with having to defend the felony acts of Priesthood men whom prey upon children. No one on the Warrenite side dares to explain how is it that 439 children came to live on the YFZ Raunch and were living such a sequestered lifestyle that local authorities didn’t even know and were lied to about the children’s presence.

    Bishop F. Merril Jessop finally told Sheriff Doran when the first search warrant was presented that the real population at the YFZ was above 150+ adults and children, then when the second search warrant was presented the bishop revised his estimate of ranch residence to be over 250+ persons. The official tally by the elected officials ended up being 550+/- residents, so Bishop Jessop never came close to giving local authorities an accurate count as to the YFZ residents, that had been represented for years prior to be about 125+/- residents total. The sequential falsehoods and perpetual misinformation is a hallmark of Bishop F. Merril Jessop, he affirms that ‘Lyin’ for the Lord’ is righteous and is an exemplary FLDS leader.

  468. merril jessop is also a dead beat dad of the worst kind.

  469. Hopefully that town will be taken apart and staffed by a REAL LEA.

  470. What kind of mothers wouldn’t want Merrill’s children cared for, supported?

  471. Stamp, thanks for the New York Times link on that Scientology article.

    Scary stuff!

  472. Trial starts tomorrow!!

  473. The FLDS dont have a lock on religious abuse. Those folks kidnapped a freind and her associate for a day in WA DC, wouldnt release them until after dark.

  474. dd1 said: Trial starts tomorrow!!
    I wonder if the ranch will keep on bussing folks in for these trials. Or is the moral support starting to wane.

  475. I hope the Zippers keep showing up, they are getting a civics lesson that is going down in history.

    Dont mess with little girls!

  476. Stamp, you need to clarify that statement.

    Don’t mess with little girls in Texas! Utah and Arizona don’t care if they mess with little girls.

  477. Correction accepted! Yeah, its sad we let the American Taliban abuse who they will while hiding behind the skirt of religion.

    Mike Leavitt went a long way toward helping the FLDS get away with it.

  478. Actually, this trial looks interesting. The lawyer seems to be trying “outside the box” type strategies. I sense that he might try some new and interesting strategies.

    Probably won’t make a difference, but it might be interesting to watch.

  479. what are the outside of the box strategies you think he will use, Ron?

  480. Cat

    This whole “let the jury decide if the raid was illegal” is way, way outside the box. So, far outside the box as to be pretty bizarre.

    I suspect that he sees that Keate got 33 years so he needs to try something different.

  481. i don’t think he’ll get far with his “let the jury decide if the raid was illegal”. that’s apparently not a question for a jury, but a question for a judge. the judge has ruled, move on!!!

  482. Anon @7:46

    Yeah, you’re quite right. However, in my book it shows that this guy is not going to go down without trying some unusual strategies. That’s why I’m curious about this one.

  483. contempt of court for the attorney sounds reasonable to me.

  484. Long trial, LONGER sentence.

  485. thanks for the scientology link- you are so right about scary similarities……

  486. have the bad acts been listed yet?

  487. RIH
    I wonder if the “let the jury decide if the raid was legal” is actually his idea because the FLDS seem to be awfully frustrated that they can’t get the “legality” issue out in front – it would be (from their) point of view a huge PR and perhaps legal win to get such a finding

  488. don over at the flds spouting site is trying to baffle with bs in talking about underage marriages. guess he just forgot about Raymond, Allen, Emack and the rest who there is documented proof were “married” to underage girls in Texas. Then there are those in other states that have been ignored by the state it happened in.

    No underage marriage don – yeah well, spew your bs to someone who believes it.

  489. PT

    That was written a month after the rescue – I dont think they dare make statements like that now.

    ==================

    This little missive from Don was from 2008-05-22

    “The strictest principles of morality have always been stressed, both before and after marriage. Sexual impurity is taught to be a sin next only to murder.

    There is an old saying: “By their fruits ye shall know them.” The beautiful, well-behaved and well-adjusted children of the YFZ community were not produced by parents who practice or condone child abuse in any form.”

    http://truthwillprevail.org/index.php?parentid=1&index=28

    Well, it IS good that we know them and their fruits are getting hung to dry in prison!

  490. It’s all playing with words. Warren said there was no such thing as an under aged marriage under the rules of priesthood marriage. Problem solved! Just change the meaning of the words and no one is lying!

  491. Yeah, there goes Warren getting himself and his posse in trouble again!

    DANG that guy is really stupid!

    Another Day, another prison meal for Warren!

  492. “This CelloSteel Kingdom business isnt all its cracked up to be!”

  493. “Gee, I fell like a Giant FLDS String Bean FRUIT sitting here banging my head!”

  494. wonder how jury selection is going.

  495. Please continue on Open Discussion #28

    This trial will be the first held in San Angelo!

  496. A larger and more diverse jury pool. I’m sure there’s something about that they’ll whine about. Let’s send bad cheese. Velveeta?

  497. Hello there, You’ve performed an incredible job. I’ll definitely digg it and in my opinion suggest to my friends. I’m confident they will be benefited from this web site.

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