Open Discussion #26

Continued from Open Discussion #25

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on February 5, 2010.

655 Responses to “Open Discussion #26”

  1. Hehehe, I’m the first poster! 😛

  2. Rebeckah: “Verily, verily, I say unto thee; except that thou be persecuteth or feel persecuteth or thinkest that thou art persecuteth then nowise shalt thou enter into the great playboy mansion in the sky.”
    ………………….

    LOL!

  3. To the person/persons that spent all that time on those spreadsheets. Thank you for sharing and you did an awesome job.

    Again thanks!

  4. This came from Utah people.
    http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy605.html
    “Dissolution of the city would require a petition from 25 percent of the city’s voters and then majority approval – something unlikely given most community residents are faithful FLDS. Deannexation, another option, is an involved process that would require assurance from the counties that all services could be provided without interruption, Bodily said later. The Utah Attorney General’s Office also has looked at removal of city officers for malfeasance but has not yet opted to go that route, he said”.

  5. It seems the LDS Church is performing baptism by proxy of Tiger Wood’s family members. Additionally they “sealed” Tiger’s father to his first wife in the Celestial Kingdom, even though she divorced Tiger’s dad due to abuse during their marriage.
    Is this bizarre, or what ?
    http://www.salamandersociety.com/temple/mormon_jewish_temple_baptism/

  6. Yep!! Pretty bizarre!!

  7. that baptism by proxy after death is just bizarre.

  8. Worse yet is that Tiger’s dad’s first wife is still alive, and the LDS sealed a living woman to her ex husband posthumously, even though the woman is still alive.(?) Apparently she finds this offensive, but this doesn’t stop them.

  9. Where in the world did this “practice” of baptism by proxy or posthumous baptisms come from?

  10. These LDS temple ordinances by proxy are just wrong. As I’ve said before, the Mormons are really obnoxious.

  11. This practice of baptism by proxy is not Biblical, nor is it a Christian tradition.
    I have no idea where they dreamed it up from.

  12. If I were sealed to any of my ex husbands, it would really annoy me. I didn’t want to stay with them here, why would I want to be with them on the other side, and don’t >I< get a choice????? I think I'd rather take my chances with a total stranger. Lewis Carroll, even.

  13. These LDS temple ordinances by proxy are just wrong. As I’ve said before, the Mormons are really obnoxious.
    ……………….

    They are arrogant and insensitive, as well as dumb to believe all those fairy tales spun by that skirtchaser Joseph Smith.

  14. Bishop Klingensmith was baptizing my dead ancestors at St George about as soon as that temple was built thus their scheme is at least that old. But he got the wrong wife so dumast lazy LDS have been copying the wrong wife now for all this time. LDS tells me it’ll all get sorted out at the end … To be LDS you have to enter your family to get your lineage and get your dead people baptized, too.

  15. dissoloution is different than disincorpation of a city. no one can dissolve people of religious beliefs, but the AG can disincorporate cities who aren’t following the laws of corporated cities, which we all know colorado city and hildale have never done

  16. Mormons cite a single biblical passage to support baptizing members on behalf of dead persons, “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?” (1 Cor. 15:29).

    Mormons infer that in 1 Corinthians, Paul speaks approvingly of living Christians receiving baptism on behalf of dead non-Christians; however, the context and construction of the verse indicate otherwise. The Greek phrase rendered by the King James Version as “for the dead” is huper ton nekron.
    This phrase is as ambiguous in Greek as it is in English.
    The preposition huper has a wide semantic range and can indicate “for the sake of,” “on behalf of,” “over,” “beyond,” or “more than.” Like the English preposition “for,” it does not have a single meaning and does not require the Mormon idea of being baptized in place of the dead.
    Such a reading would be unlikely given the more plausible interpretations available, and even if huper were taken to mean “in the place of,” it doesn’t mean Paul endorses the practice.

    “But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.”—Titus 3:9
    “Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.”—1 Timothy 1:4

    Thus we conclude that contrary to the Mormon notion that we all can be “saviors” by “redeeming our dead” ancestors though baptism, the Bible proclaims:

    “None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:”—Psalm 49:7

  17. Info gal: your Biblical quote,

    “None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:”—Psalm 49:7

    says it all. Here’s another quote, modified slightly from the original, for the secularists among us;

    “She who walks through the spirit of another, and by a hired hand will behold results that are far from the truth. Conversely, she who gives her service to another as an Assistant in the Laboratory, will never be admitted to the Kingdom.”

  18. they dang sure better not try to seal me to anyone in the afterlife.

  19. FLDS has new president
    http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14348960

  20. opps, looks like I’m a day late and a dollar short.

  21. Good Morning America yesterday on upcoming (Wed Feb 10th) National Geographic Channel documentary
    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/inside-polygamy-national-geographic-special-spotlights-plural-marriage/story?id=9752275

  22. thanks anon.

  23. IMO it is not good to see people on this blog bashing the LDS over their beliefs, I think it would be better to concentrate on the problem of the crimes of the Warren Jeffs crime organization known as the FLDS. I believe that many people involved with the exposure of the crimes of the FLDS are of the LDS faith. It is my understanding that Bruce Wisan is of the LDS faith as is Sam Brower.

    And Mr Brower in my opinion speaks the truth about the FLDS, Warren Jeffs, Willie the thug. In a press release posted at the Hope org website Mr Brower quoted Willie the thug as saying: “Then Willie, in a rare moment of candor said, “We can’t stop underage
    marriage. If we do our religion will fall apart. If we don’t get to those girls when they’re young they
    will be exposed to the outside world and we’ll lose them. We can’t afford for that to happen. If it
    does, our religion will collapse.”

    Read entire statement, a powerful condemnation of the FLDS leadership.

    http://www.childbrides.org/Sam_Brower_memo_on_FLDS_vs_Mafia-10-2009.pdf

    For those who don’t know Mr. Brower & Mr.Engels were instrumental in bringing the actions of the FLDS. Mr Engels is not LDS, but protestant.

  24. Last sentence above should say “were instrumental in bringing actions of FLDS to public attention.

  25. A Texan I appreciate what you are saying and I don’t think posters are “bashing the LDS” here. However, the practice of baptism by proxy after someone dies to convert them into the Mormon faith really is insensitive to the dead person’s beliefs and choices and is selfish and self-centered.

    I have relatives who are LDS. I am not LDS. I have told these relatives that if I wanted to be LDS I would do it. I have chosen not to become LDS.

    I also told them that I do NOT want them baptizing me by proxy into the Mormon faith after I die.

    About 1/2 promised me they would not do that. The other 1/2 said nothing at all. That leads me to believe that they might try some of that temple voodoo on me after I die.

    Will I know if they baptize me by proxy into a religion I want no part of after I die? I have no idea.

    But, I do know while I am alive that becoming a Mormon is NOT my choice, so I resent the fact that they might do that against my will after I die.

    That is MY beef. It has nothing to do with Bruce Wisan’s or Sam Brower’s choice to belong to that faith. And I do so VERY much appreciate their efforts and accomplishments.

  26. Let me add my nickel [inflation] about being sealed to my late ex…That means I’d hafta join him in hell…I CANNOT believe he is anywhere else. LOL. I plan on being elsewhere!

  27. There oughtta be a law banning the LDS from baptizing by proxy dead people who belonged to other religions.

  28. ratteler said: “There oughtta be a law banning the LDS from baptizing by proxy dead people who belonged to other religions.”

    First…one of my favorite posters goes by the name Rattle…If you’re *usurping* the name be warned…I like my Rattle just as she is.

    Then….It doesn’t matter if mormon’s shake-their-groove-thang, wave a stick and chant Hammer-Time ~~

    There’s no evidence…whatsoever, that Mo-Mo’s are laying down a supra-natural existence/opportunity OF ANY KIND.

    It’s all so damned goofy. I’m sending Thor to smite them all. (and don’t you mock my Thor!) 🙂

  29. Trying to enact a law which prevents baptizing people who haven’t consented is a sure road to hell. But there are other options. Like, create an online religion and baptize Mormons as witches after they die. That will let them know what violation in the name of God really feels like.

  30. Like, create an online religion and baptize Mormons as witches after they die. That will let them know what violation in the name of God really feels like.

    Overall I like the idea, but wouldn’t the witches get upset? 🙂

  31. A member of my family is LDS. When she was baptized, she also consented to be baptized for the dead members of the family. I believe she did this out of love and concern for their salvation, and I respect her for it.
    That is something entirely different than posthumously “sealing for eternity” a dead man (Tiger’s dad) to his still living ex – wife who resented his abuse. Additionally this “sealing” was made public knowledge without the living ex – partner’s knowledge or consent. That is extremely hurtful.
    Certainly she deserves an apology regarding this.
    This is not LDS bashing. I have many respected friends, colleagues, and a family member who is LDS.

  32. Also, I thought that the LDS officially banned the practice of baptism of anyone but your own relatives. But apparently in some places it is still going on quite openly.

  33. Ron, LOL. Yes, I rather think they would.

  34. “they dang sure better not try to seal me to anyone in the afterlife.”

    To quote my husband “You’d make a really bad slave. Your owner would want to exchange you for the dumb, quiet, submissive model.”

  35. yeah, i probably wouldn’t last long in their version of heaven.

  36. My critique of the super bowl half time show:

  37. would anyone know where to find dictation in which warren gives lyle instructions towards his underage wife?

  38. Cool. The evidence in Arizona is officially suppressed both directly and indirectly.

    http://www.mohavecourts.com/highprofile/743-Stipulation%2002-04-10.pdf

  39. The real loser here is Pic. less billable hours for him without a hearing. This decision is exactly what the prosecutor, Matt Smith wanted to happen. He filed a motion to this effect, so yes it is cool. Maybe this AZ trial will finally be held so WJ can move on to face the Texas chages, that would be real cool, 45 years anyone??

  40. right ale wife, bet pic is crying in his beer!! LOL

  41. Yea, ale wife that is exactly what Pic did not want to happen, now Conn makes no ruling on the evidence, LOL. And all those tinfoil hatters that were pending all their hopes and claims on Conn ruling the evidence inadmissible lose that bet.

  42. i want more than 45 years for him in az and then i want him to get life here in texas.

  43. the crik trip is on, if you want to be considered for a spot in the parade, you need to email me – proudtexan09 @ gmail.com. if you want to be a part you need to let me know.

  44. I wonder if this guy will claim religious persecution?

    http://www.krem.com/news/local/83852827.html

    Bridgeport girl, 13, reports fiance missing
    Posted on February 9, 2010 at 10:38 AM

    ******

    BRIDGEPORT, Wash. (AP) — A 13-year-old girl in Bridgeport told the Douglas County sheriff’s office that her fiance had disappeared.

    A deputy took a missing person report in November from the girl who said she had been dating and having sex with a 19-year-old.
    _____________

    In the rest of the short article it says that they’re looking for the guy to arrest him on rape charges. Doubtless it’s a misunderstanding though. Everyone knows that 13 year old girls are MORE than old enough to consent to sex even with men who are supposed to be adults.

  45. Here is a radio interview by Scott Anderson who wrote the narrative in the Feb issue of National Geographic.

    http://www.kpbs.org/news/2010/feb/08/polygamy-america/

  46. (Feb. 9) – For the first time, the Saudi Arabian state has intervened in the marriage of a preteen girl to an older man, leading some campaigners to speculate that the kingdom could be about to ban the cruel and archaic practice of child marriage…
    of a 12-year-old girl who was paired off with her father’s 80-year-old cousin last year. Many of the country’s hard-line Wahhabi imams claim child marriage is justified by the Koran, since the Prophet Muhammad wed his third wife, Aisha, when she was only 9 years old.
    A senior Saudi cleric Sheikh Abdullah al-Manie last month told Okaz that Aisha’s marriage to the Prophet Muhammad in the seventh century “cannot be equated with child marriages today because the conditions and circumstances are not the same.”
    ———————————
    It’s only taken the Saudi’s 1400 yrs to think about correcting their young girl/old man marriage decree. The Gov’t Human Rights Commission has hired a lawyer to represent the 12yr old, who claims.”This is in filial respect to my father and obedience to his wish.” Of course he “wished it”… the uncle paid the dad $23,000 for her!
    [Do 12yr olds use words like “filial”? I don’t,even as an adult!]

  47. Article in this week’s Eldorado Success.

    Allen Keate has filed for indigent status. A hearing was held last Friday in Judge Walther’s court.

    No ruling yet.

    If granted, Schleicher County will pick up the cost of his appeal, including attorney’s fees.

    Gerald Goldstein is the lead attorney on an Amended Notice of Appeal which was filed in Schleicher County on January 28. According to the Success article, that gives Keate until March 17 to file an appeal.

  48. Link to the Eldorado Success:

    http://www.myeldorado.net

  49. Nice….. give your money to UEP or YFZ and then you are indigent but your assets are still intact.

  50. Didn’t winston blackmore pull that trick?

  51. Texas Twist are you sure they meant indigent, and not idjit?

  52. So how did Allen Keate support all his wives and children before he got arrested?

  53. This is a summary of what he said at the hearing and what was in his affidavit as reported by the Success:

    He was paid in food as well as room and board for his family at the ranch.

    Also received $30,000 a year to support his family.

    Occupies two UEP Trust homes in Short Creek. Is a beneficiary to the trust.

    When Eric Nichols asked how he paid for items such as computers, furniture, etc. that was in the affidavit, he said Barbara Jessop gave him the money for those things when he requested.

    His family was provided with “several thousand dollars” by the church after April 2008.

    When asked who paid for his trial attorney he said he did not know.

    Supports 27 people, including 21 children from age 6 months to 16 years.

    Judge Walther asked him if he was aware of “an individual contract” with Goodfellow Construction. He said he was not.

    Walther also asked him if he was not living at the ranch if he was entitled to funds from it; he said he was not.

    No assets other than a 2000 model minivan and a bank account with a $15 balance.

  54. His counsel at the hearing was Karyl Anderson Krug.

    In the affidavit he said that “family and church members” paid for his attorneys but “have no legal obligation” to pay for transcripts and other court records that are needed for the appeal.

  55. “Just wants and needs.”

  56. Hi all. This is just a quick drive by. I am behind in my reading so someone may have already posted this. If they have, I apologize for the double post.

    For any one interested….. There’s a show airing tonight on Nat Geo Channel at 11:00 pm Central Standard Time called Inside Polygamy: Life In Bountiful. The description sounds like it is Winston Blackmore and his ‘extennnnded’ family life’s story. Having to record mine to watch later. Morning comes way too early for me to watch tonight but thought I’d let you guys know in case you didn’t already. Night all. Sweet Dreams.

  57. For any one interested….. There’s a show airing tonight on Nat Geo Channel at 11:00 pm Central Standard Time called Inside Polygamy: Life In Bountiful. The description sounds like it is Winston Blackmore and his ‘extennnnded’ family life’s story.
    …………………

    While I certainly don’t approve of Winston Blackmore, he doesn’t have quite the “creepiness” factor that Warren does. And at least all the women aren’t dressed like identical stepford wives.

  58. LOOK justice can actually happen in Utah!

    Judge gives child rapist 50 years in prison
    Courts

    Mother defends husband who raped her daughter.

    http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14377296

  59. Hat tip to Anon, copied from the other thread.

    This is an interesting article, and it points to an infamous place, though not by name.

    ================================================

    anonymous:

    “Macanas said she’s dealt with cases in which a person living in and receiving public assistance from Arizona has applied for welfare in Utah.”

    hmmm, I wonder who she’s referring to?

    Bill that would prevent, prosecute welfare fraud advances

    http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14368641

  60. “Macanas said she’s dealt with cases in which a person living in and receiving public assistance from Arizona has applied for welfare in Utah.”

    hmmm, I wonder who she’s referring to?

    Bill that would prevent, prosecute welfare fraud advances
    http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14368641

  61. FLDS Texas I didn’t realize you copied that posting from the other thread. I wasn’t spamming the blog, but posted it after you had closed the other thread so that is why I also posted it here.

  62. Guess that means the article is a must read – it gets posted three times.

    Wear your 3-D glasses, and you can see “Shortcreek” appear in the article.

  63. Wow, the article is great, they keep tightening the noose on the wild bunch riding roughshod out in the boonies.

    Time to rope a dope and bring them into the ’80’s. And beyond.

    Behold Buzzed Lightyear!

  64. But not until “Malonis!” pages you over the intercom and gives you a training. Then you’ll see “Shortcreek,” but only if she wants you to.

    Yes, against my better judgment I just went to the Trib and read the article by the one-woman-confusion-machine.

    It’s bad to expose the diary of a fuzzy little profit who traffics in tweeners. Just terrible. But that’s not the point.

    The real cult leader is “Malonis!” Know it bloggers.
    You’re all pwned by “Malonis!” She’s controlling the horizontal and the vertical.

    But she doesn’t control the one-woman-confusion-machine, because the OWCM is too smart for that.

    Make me want to mix up whatever that woman in the Nat Geo TV program was thinking would make her go into labor…apricot juice and India ink. Then bash myself in the head with it.

  65. Given that bible school education that Miele displays this rant makes little sense to me? What does OWCM acronym mean. If the prophet was guilty of just trafficking in teens then we are supposed to ignore the records on obstruction of justice, reassignments, need to form ‘lands of refuges’, the select/brethren temple builders and UEPTrust manipulations? Seems to be more of the ‘Work’ of a criminal underworld organization. If the ‘Truth will prevail’ Miele, it seems,”the lady doth protesteth too much”. Are you complaining about the heat or the bright light of truth?

  66. One Woman Confusion Machine.

    I think Miele was being sarcastic.

  67. cajIM, I think Miele was making a funny, LOL. It seems Brooke Adams is publishing the FLDS party line that…….It’s all Natalie Malonis’ fault, and Miele was playing with that.

  68. It’s really fun to play with their paranoia. Please don’t let’s get some of our own, teehee!

  69. “rope a dope”
    “one woman confusion machine”

    🙂

    I really like and respect Malonis. She not only is book smart but the woman is people smart.

    She made mush turn into mush when she was questioning Merill and Willie.

  70. Logan » A judge ordered a 26-year-old Logan man Wednesday to serve 50 years to life in prison Wednesday for repeatedly raping and sodomizing his hearing-impaired, 5-year-old stepdaughter.

    First District Court Judge Kevin Allen called the abuse the most horrific case he had seen in more than 20 years, characterizing the stepfather as a “weak-minded predator” who tied an innocent child to a bed for “sick acts” and “torturous treatment.”

    Logan police say the man abused his wife’s daughter approximately 26 times since January 2007 when the child was between 5 and 8-years old.
    http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14377296

    *And the mother said she still loved this pervert, wanted to be married to him for eternity!!! What the hell they raising in Utah, freaks???

  71. Yet this is the kind of CRAP Brooke Adams Bile Medvecky and McBryde are protecting?????

  72. “Make me want to mix up whatever that woman in the Nat Geo TV program was thinking would make her go into labor…apricot juice and India ink.”

    What kind of medical care do they have in Bountiful ?
    Induction of labor by means of apricots and ingestion of cooking oil….????
    Hello, are there any doctors there ????

  73. No cat,, I think just midwives

  74. Well, if that is the Bountiful midwive’s concept of induction of labor, it certainly is substandard.
    That Nat Geo Channel special tried to make Winston Blackmore look somewhat like a nice guy, and was so progressive.
    When they confronted him about 4 of his wives being 16 or younger when he married them, Winston claimed that women “like to lie about their age”, and he was unaware at the time.
    Nonsense.
    Another woman reported Winston married them despite that they were less than 16 yrs old because if he did not, Warren Jeffs would have taken Winston’s family away from him.
    He has 123 kids and one of his daughters said that she did not have much time to spend with him growing up, but what little time she had with him was “special”

  75. When they confronted him about 4 of his wives being 16 or younger when he married them, Winston claimed that women “like to lie about their age”, and he was unaware at the time.
    Nonsense.

    Hmmm, do ya think it was the FLDS equivalent of “don’t ask, don’t tell?”

  76. One narcissistic patriarchal slave owner is kind of like another one to me.

  77. Does it matter? Both are scum buckets!!

  78. “Narcissistic Patriarchal Slave Owner” aka NPSO – another one to add to the FLDS Lexicon.

  79. If you saw the Nat Geo show last night, you saw Marsha and Zelpha Chatwin. They grew up in the Creek and were sent to Canada to become plural wives of Winston Blackmore. Trafficking of child brides? Who us?

    As brother Craig Chatwin said:

    Craig Chatwin: Bountiful ended up being particularly interesting to me because that’s where the majority of my sisters were married. I’m from a large family. I have about 30 brothers and sisters – 32 and the majority of those live in Canada now. They’ve all been married up there. And that’s about 11 or 12 sisters all shipped up there.

    http://www.childbrides.org/Canada_CBS_interview_of_winston_blackmore.html

  80. Here is more of the interview about Bountiful:
    http://www.childbrides.org/Canada_Fifth_bishop_Bountiful.html

  81. And even more –

    Hurricane, Utah — Craig Chatwin said goodbye to his sister Esther Ruth shortly after her 13th birthday last year.

    She was getting married.

    “She was just a kid and was assigned to marry someone in Canada,” said Chatwin, a former member of the polygamous Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

    Chatwin, 28, said Esther Ruth was the last of seven sisters from Colorado City, Ariz. to be assigned husbands at the Bountiful polygamous commune in Lister, B.C.

    “I have not seen her since,” said Chatwin.

    “She was just a kid and they married her to a guy who was 28.”

    http://www.childbrides.org/Canada_PN_13_yo_sent_to_BC.html

  82. In many cases, marriage is seen as a way to quell teenage rebellion. If a teenage girl is seen so much as talking to a boy, her father is likely to ask the Prophet to find her a husband.

    “If she’s good-looking, the Prophet might marry her [himself],” says local historian Ben Bistline.

    By turning in his daughter for marriage, the father not only takes care of the problem teen, he gains favor with the Prophet, increasing his chances for future wives.

    Naturally, fathers in town marry each other’s daughters. The Prophet is the broker in these swaps. “They are chattel,” Bistline says of the girls.

    Frequently, the girls are shipped out of town, to a sister FLDS town in Creston, British Columbia. In turn, that town ships girls to the Colorado City area.

    Chatwin says seven of his sisters were married to members of the Canadian FLDS congregation.

    Two of Chatwin’s sisters were married to the same man on the same day. The groom was Winston Blackmore, the bishop of the FLDS’ Canadian church. Blackmore already had a dozen wives.

    Chatwin recounted what his sisters told him about their wedding night:

    Blackmore approached Zelpha, 21, and Marsha, 17, asking which one wanted to have sex with him first. He said, “We are in the business of making babies.”

    Zelpha pushed Marsha forward.

    Chatwin said, “The next night it was Zelpha’s turn. That was the extent of their romance.”

    http://www.childbrides.org/control_pnt_bound_fear.html

  83. I wonder what sort of packing materials are used to “ship” a sister to Canada.

  84. Here is a good article on how Bountiful got started.

    I also loved this part:
    One of the people caught up in the fight is DeLoy Bateman, forty-six, an Arizona polygamist with seventeen children. As a high-school science teacher in Colorado City he says he can’t abide what Warren Jeffs has done. Even before the mass withdrawal of students last fall, he had noted a steady decline in the number of girls in the secondary classes.

    The reason: the girls were being married off when they were anywhere from fourteen to seventeen. Since 1993, in fact, not one young woman from Colorado City has graduated from high school and gone on to university. A number of his students have ended up in Canada married to Bountiful men.

    Bateman says he knows exactly how the system works. The road to Bountiful for the young American “virgins” contains a way station: a small UEP settlement located outside Bonners Ferry, Idaho, just thirty kilometres south of the Canadian border. It is here, says Bateman, that the girls often wait. Carloads of Mormons, adults and children, he says, pass northward through the Porthill border crossing almost daily, headed for school, or church, or a visit with relatives and friends in Bountiful, thirteen kilometres away. They are seldom questioned by Canadian authorities. No one, he maintains, counts the number of those who later return south.

    Bateman admits that there are young women who wish nothing more than to go to Bountiful and have babies. Especially if the father is to be Winston Blackmore. His is, after all, superior seed. And compared to Colorado City, windswept and surrounded by desert, Bountiful is a green Eden. Unlike the controversial Jeffs, Winston Blackmore, the grapevine reports, is a nice guy. He plays guitar. He’s a good talker, charming, and well off. His wives sing together in a choir. Most importantly, he’s the bishop; he talks to God.

    http://www.childbrides.org/Canada_SN_Bountiful.html

  85. Seems Judge Haney has refused to dismiss charges against Wisan,,, and there will be a trial February 22,, sounds like an OLD fart Judge to me, lol

  86. Darn, Anon, I think I want to have his babies! Not.

    He’s also fat, middle aged and arrogant. Did anyone notice that? Oh, I guess Marsha and Zelpha noticed.

  87. Evidently Jane Blackmore his first wife had enough to!!

  88. This article is classic – yes I did it but not when you said I did:

    The rules forbidding contact between teenage girls and boys break down when it comes to sexual assault in the home. In most of the criminal cases coming out of Colorado City, the assaults occurred repeatedly and spanned a number of years before they were finally addressed by law enforcement and the courts.

    The case of Jeremiah Sunderland Johnson provides insight into the depravity lurking inside some of the polygamous families tucked into the sprawling, ramshackle houses that dominate the town’s landscape.

    Church leaders contacted Colorado City police in January 1997 and reported a child-molestation case involving 19-year-old Jeremiah, who was living in a home with his stepfather, Lyle Major Jessop, and mother, Sirrene Johnson Jessop — along with other children and Lyle’s additional wives.

    Police began a series of interviews with Jeremiah’s full sisters, beginning with a 16-year-old. The girl stated that Jeremiah began molesting her when she was about 6 years old. Jeremiah was about 9 when the assaults began. She says Jeremiah had come into her room and persuaded her to take off her clothes. He got on top of her and tried to put his penis inside her, but was unsuccessful. This routine continued until she was 15 and he was 18, after which the two had sexual intercourse about half a dozen times.

    Police then interviewed a 14-year-old sister, who recounted a similar story, including having sex with Jeremiah when she was 10. She estimated that they had intercourse six times.

    An 18-year-old sister told police that years earlier when Jeremiah was about 11 he had unsuccessfully attempted to enter her when she was 10 years old and in the fourth grade.

    Jeremiah admitted to police that he sexually assaulted his sisters, but he claims the incidents began when he was about 12.

    http://www.childbrides.org/excuses_pnt_eyes_shut.html

  89. In that last link posted above is a quote:

    “Ekstrom says he has been assured by one of the FLDS’ high officials, former Colorado City police officer Sam Barlow, that underage girls are no longer being thrust into polygamous marriages. Ekstrom claims to have warned Barlow, himself a polygamist, that if such marriages are continuing, Mohave County is prepared to file charges.”

    This article was written in 2003.
    Someone should send this link to Willie and tell him that Big Sam Barlow made his same lying claim 7 years ago.

  90. The depravity of local law enfarcement is staggering. Thanks for sharing anon, the public needs to be reminded of the sweetheart deals child molesters enjoy in fairytale land.

  91. Isn’t Sam Barlow the man who gave a speech about how they HAD to marry underaged girls or else they would be betraying all of the Saints who had preceeded them and been persecuted?

  92. Enough of the lies – cuff em and stuff em, then they dont have to worry about being tempted any longer.

  93. #

    I wonder what sort of packing materials are used to “ship” a sister to Canada.

    Betty said this on February 11, 2010 at 4:12 PM

    Betty, I think they put a lot of bubble wrap under the prairie dress.

  94. I wonder what will happen if polygamy is decriminalized in Canada?
    Do you think there would be a mass exodus from Hildale / Colorado City ?

  95. Betty, yes it was the same Sam Barlow

  96. catwhisperer, we can only hope so!

  97. Deputy, where is the Wisan trial and what time does it start?

    I have never heard of this judge. Who is he?

  98. Well,,,,, its posted on Brookes blog,,, Moccasin Justice court Feburary 22

    by the way anony,,, HAHAHAH on the bubble wrap!

  99. A big amen, stamp.

    cajIM – That was exactly my meaning. Guys thanks for covering it for me.

    I watched the Nat Geo TV program starting 6 minutes into it. I saw Mary Mackert crying. Hell. That is what she said. Hell. She either went through a horrific experience or she’s an actress the caliber of Meryl Streep.

    Since young girls are turning up pregnant all over west Texas, I tend to believe her. Somewhere behind those gates is a little girl going through hell, and I don’t much like it. In Texas or in Short Creek. Or in Bountiful. Or where ever.

    Never mind running for her life from having her throat slit.

    Anyone who performs or facilitates that behavior, condones it, covers for it or otherwise aids and abets it has blood all over their hands.

    Fine, if that’s what you want to do, do it. There are a lot of Aholes in the world. But at least admit it. Woman-up and admit it.

    To snarkily imply that Natalie Malonis leads of cult of blogging lunatics as a moral equivalent is just plain idiotic.

    I personally think Natalie Malonis is one of the good guys. When they attacked her personally (aided by who? OWCM.) she could have cut and run but she didn’t. She took on silly Willie in his glaring contest, kept her cool with sleepy Merill. If she’s representing Carolyn or Wisan, good for her. She doesn’t answer to me and she sure as hell doesn’t have to answer to a blogger in Salt Lake City, who’s apparently playing connect the dots and let’s point fingers.

    I believe it was an attorney with the first name of D’arcy (Kind of a cool name.) who wrote the letter to the Court stating she was in error, and took care of it.

    /rant

  100. Never heard of Haney,, I thought Kaluli did most of moccasin justice courts

  101. I think the furor this whole priesthood records thing is causing shows just how desperate the apologists are for some mud to sling at the other side.

  102. Here’s Jane Blackmore’s affidavit:

    https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/declaration-of-jayne-blackmore/

  103. NO its not moccasin court, its Colorado City Magistrate court.. Oh hell no wonder!!!1
    Flds paid this judge off, you can bet!

  104. I hope Jane Blackmore testifies against Winston in the case he has filed against the Canadian government.

  105. Kalauli was disqualified for bias. Haney is his replacement.

  106. well haney isn’t any better

  107. DD — Haney is not a FLDS shill. It’s difficult to get a favorable ruling on a motion to dismiss. Although these charges should not have been brought in the first place, his denying the motion to dismiss is the safe thing for him to do. That does not mean he is biased in favor of the FLDS. There’s also the dustup over the documents, and there’s no way he had time to read them all and it’s questionable whether he would even consider them — all of that evidence can be brought out at trial. This is not a setback, although it would have been nice to have it dismissed right now.

  108. Yes, Haney is better. There have been several hearings and none of them have gone in favor of FLDS.

  109. i’m thinking on our trip to the crik we might need to take some copies of warren’s dictations and stories like the one above of jeremiah johnson and just kind of leave them lying around all over the place.

  110. anyone who isn’t flds is an improvement.

  111. PT,

    I guess reading specific portions over a PA system is probably over the top, no?

  112. lol PT, reminds me of the propaganda bombs used in WW2,to demoralize the enemies’ forces

  113. You two could disguise yourselves as a Google van. We know they let them in. Then just hook up the PA to that funny looking thing on top.

  114. Just as a reminder from the Jeremiah Johnson story…

    “The sexual entanglements appear to extend even further. Court records show that the mother, Sirrene, stated that her younger brothers living in another house were involved with her younger sisters in an “inappropriate way.”

    Despite the court receiving additional allegations of sexual misconduct before Jeremiah entered his guilty plea, there is no record that additional charges were filed against him or the 16-year-old girl. There also is no record of any police investigation or charges related to Sirrene’s allegation concerning her brothers.”

    One of Sirrene Dutson Johnson Jessop’s younger half-brothers is Parley Jeffs Dutson.

  115. Be sure to blast “The Eyes of Texas Are Upon You,” at least once.

  116. When I read about it my first thought was that this judge seems to be pretty no-nonsense. I imagine the motion to dismiss is something of a regular part of the legal dance anyway, right? I mean haven’t the FLDS lawyers tried that in 75% of the cases against them? 🙂

    Anyway, I’m interested in seeing how the actual court hearing goes forth.

  117. Good idea, Miele.

    We can add a dose or two of the Aggie War Hymn in there to keep it surreal.

    And some R.E.M.

  118. eyes of texas is a good choice, what about lyin eyes by the eagles.

    all we need is a good bull horn. i’ll see if i can borrow one before our trip.

  119. no, no, no, there will be no aggie war hymn.

  120. Okay, okay. No Aggie War Hymn.

  121. good, i put my foot down on that one. can we agree on lyin eyes and other golden oldie eagles hits?

  122. lol, I think I’m going to learn that R.E.M. song on my guitar. 😀

  123. OK, I think I can probably rig some type of speaker system for the roof, connect them to the laptop and broadcast away!

  124. Brooke said:
    “FA, thanks for pointing out my typo, although I did laugh aloud at the tongue wagging that probably triggered. Too much multi-tasking today”

    True. Or we can just chalk one up under “Freudian typo”.

  125. what was the typo? I missed it.

  126. speakers on the roof would be good!!!

  127. which REM song? i need to learn the words so i can sing along.

  128. “I was standing on the corner in Winslow, Arizona…”

    Yep, I’m always good with the Eagles.

  129. dismal instead of dissmissal ;lol

  130. Losing My Religion

  131. How about “Suspicious Minds” by the King? 😉

  132. “losing my religion” t he one that was youtubed here a couple days ago. =)

  133. rem works for me and of course suspicious minds!!!

  134. PT:
    She headlined her most recent post as “Judge tosses Wisan’s dismal motion” . I couldn’t believe my eyes when I read it, and took it at face value, that in fact that was exactly how she viewed Wisan. Then I wondered if maybe it was just arcane language. It was there for at least a day until FA pointed it out. Weird.

  135. #

    Kalauli was disqualified for bias. Haney is his replacement.

    FLDS TEXAS said this on February 11, 2010 at 6:07 PM

    I think Kalauli has been biased about a LOT of cases pertaining to the FLDS.

  136. PT,

    I guess reading specific portions over a PA system is probably over the top, no?

    TexasTwist said this on February 11, 2010 at 6:54 PM

    OK, I see it coming. We need the Blues Brothers’ old cop mobile with the PA system on the top.

  137. have they quit giving traffic tickets in the crik? we haven’t had an accounting of that in a while.

  138. Ya just gotta love that older sister Zelpha protecting her younger sister Marsha!

    “Chatwin recounted what his sisters told him about their wedding night:

    Blackmore approached Zelpha, 21, and Marsha, 17, asking which one wanted to have sex with him first. He said, “We are in the business of making babies.”

    Zelpha pushed Marsha forward.”

  139. know where we can find one anan@8:02?

  140. Do they come in a covertible model?

    I hate Illinois nazis.

  141. I missed being able to see the NatGeo piece last night.

    Is it available online?

  142. Here is the posting Brooke had

    Judge tosses Wisan’s dismal motion

    Posted on February 11, 2010, 3:28 pm, by Brooke, under United Effort Plan (UEP)

  143. if you find it twist, please let me know, i missed it too.

  144. Twist, Nat Geo will air the show again on Feb 14th and 17th. Check you local listing for times

  145. but i don’t have cable, i need it online.

  146. “Blackmore approached Zelpha, 21, and Marsha, 17, asking which one wanted to have sex with him first. He said, “We are in the business of making babies.”

    Zelpha pushed Marsha forward.”

    Wow, Winston, what a chick magnet you are !
    How romantic!
    It was clear from the statements on Nat Geo last night that Zelpha didn’t choose Winston, she chose “the family”, meaning she chose his “family” for the relationships she would have with the other women there, not for the relationship she would have with him.
    For all intents and purposes, those Blackmore wives were like single parents, living in a institutional style sparsely furnished bldg which had the warmth and coziness of an army mess hall.

  147. Haven’t I read that some of Blackmore’s women have married one another?

  148. That I did not know.
    I know his first wife left him.

  149. Two of Winston’s wives are said to be legally married to one another.

    One is a Canadian citizen, the other isn’t.

  150. Yup, just found it.

    Lesbian Couple Marry in Bountiful – Both brides are Winston Blackmore ex-wives
    Written on July 31st, 2008 by LQ Editorno shouts

    Well how’s that for bucking the patriarchy in it’s own backyard. Two women who were forced by their families to be ‘celestially married’ to Bountiful polygamist community leader Winston Blackmore, have chosen to legally marry one another.

    The Vancouver Sun reported in June of last year that “One bride is Lorraine Johnson, an American, sent by her family to “marry” Blackmore, who was then the powerful bishop. She was his 18th wife. It’s not clear whether Johnson immigrated legally to Canada or simply came across the border and stayed. The other bride is Shelina Palmer, a Canadian born into a polygamous family in Bountiful and assigned to Blackmore. She is wife number 22.”

    With Johnson under a deportation order at the time of the wedding, it is not clear whether the couple chose to marry out of convenience or love. Both will be required to renounce any other relationships in order to establish to immigration that they are an authentic same-sex couple.

    Neither have been legally married before. The women have been living together for several years.

  151. TT, This was from last night’s discussion–try this online–

    you can watch it here:

    http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/inside/4292/Overview#tab-Videos/07797_00

    LadySadie said this on February 10, 2010 at 9:22 PM

  152. Lesbian Couple Marry in Bountiful – Both brides are Winston Blackmore ex-wives..

    I had always wondered about being gay in the FLDS. A statistic I read ages ago, says about 10% of the [world? US?] population is homosexual. I am sure it’s strictly verboten in FLDS-land! I know LDS isn’t very welcoming, altho, recently I read they are trying to be more…tolerant and understanding.
    It wouldn’t surprise me in the least if there were deeply closeted lesbians in the sect. ALL those women and ALL the neglect of their needs, could lead to looking elswhere for “comfort” within your sister-wife ranks.

  153. Remember John Lester aka gemsmaker? It was his dream to waltz into the FLDS and take for himself multiple brides, of course they should be bisexual, him being a 40 yr old virgin and all.

    The crazy didnt stop there, and on a few of Brookes blog threads he got in arguments with crickers, telling them to “sit down and shut up!” while he was preaching to them on Brookes blog.

    I found the entire episode oddly surrealistic.

  154. Thank you so much, mc1199.

    I was buried in other things last night.

  155. Oh, then divorced /single /plyg site trolling Dale the lone Rider licked his wounds for him, and got him to cancel all that nonsense and his nutty websites, and he joined the LDS church.

    Not long into that, he made headway in a MLM gig, and blew up on them online over a dispute, it seemed like Lester was cutting corners. TOO funny!

  156. OMG, John Lester. Now there is a STRANGE person I have NOT missed on the blogs! Btwn him and Street, it was a freakfest at times!

  157. One wonders what lady polygamists do to follow the principle. Is there a guy girl, trolling for young women to be seduced with her matriarchal charms?

    This episode hasnt hit Big Love yet but who knows? It could take you places you never dreamed of!

  158. I think mostly everyone knows it but there might be a few who don’t.

    When I post at the Salt Lake Tribune I go under the name of Cooper.
    When I first signed up there I explained who I was and how the name came to be.

  159. Well tell us again. I hadnt seen you often there, and your posts help a lot!

  160. I missed that Walton. How did you get the name of Cooper?

  161. Judge Haney to Wisan: Shut up and show up.

    “This Court is not interested in all the voluminous documents submitted that appear to irrelevant to either proving or disproving the elements of this crime.”

  162. Really A-LI-N, that’s what the Judge said? Oh that’s right that is just what your hero mudpucky said.

    Fortunately the Judge has brains and class something sorely lacking in mudpucky.

  163. No that’s really what the Judge said. Judges simply aren’t likely to wade through all that crap. Most of it isn’t properly authenticated and it’s just easier for them to hold the hearing and sort it out then. I had a similar discussion with Hugh over the 200+ pages that Piccaretta filed.

    There is a reason they want you to file “briefs.” They don’t want you throwing ca ca at then hoping something sticks.

  164. I thought that Winston was claiming that those two women were still very much his faithful wives and the marriage was a device to keep the one woman from being deported.

  165. Sadly, Ladysadie, that’s what the judge said, and it IS a misdemeanor charge so I can understand why the court would not want to spend four weeks full time reading that stuff. If it is relevant, and I think it speaks to motivation and believability of his accusers, it needs to be picked over and handed to the Judge on a platter.

  166. OH, please, let’s NOT talk about lonely lady polygamists turning lesbians. Even if it does alliterate.

  167. but the truth is that wisnan is the one in charge of the trust and trust lands and so he has to power to tell someone to go in and change the locks if a person or persons are living in a house illegally.

  168. Ron, the Judge said “Shut up and show up”. Hmmmm, I read the motion, never saw that anywhere in it.

  169. “OH, please, let’s NOT talk about lonely lady polygamists turning lesbians. Even if it does alliterate.”

    Believe it or not, apparently lesbian behavior is commonly described in African polygynous women, although no statistical data regarding its prevalence is available.

  170. Paul J. Cool accused of two felony charges of sexual molestation, while an elder priesthood member of the Community of Christ Church a break away sect of Mormons based in Missouri, is expected to plea bargain his case today.

    Former Vermont resident charged with molesting girls

    By Sam Hemingway, Free Press Staff Writer • Tuesday, November 24, 2009

    A former Vermont resident and purported priest with a spin-off Mormon church organization has been arrested in Missouri on charges he fondled two female relatives while living in Vermont several years ago.

    Paul Cool, 49, of Blue Springs, Mo., is facing two charges of lewd and lascivious conduct. One charge involves alleged fondling incidents with a teenage relative at a home in South Royalton in 2006 and 2007; the other alleges he touched a pre-teen relative at a home in Cornwall in 2007 and 2008.Paul Cool, 49, of Blue Springs, Mo., is facing two charges of lewd and lascivious conduct. One charge involves alleged fondling incidents with a teenage relative at a home in South Royalton in 2006 and 2007; the other alleges he touched a pre-teen relative at a home in Cornwall in 2007 and 2008.

    According to a police affidavit on file at Vermont District Court in White River Junction, police were alerted to Cool’s alleged conduct when the mother of the two victims contacted police in February and said Cool had inappropriately touched her teenage daughter in 2006 and 2007.

    Neither alleged victim now lives in Vermont.

    In a subsequent interview conducted by the Dekalb County Sheriff’s Department in Maysville, Mo., the teenage girl told police that Cool repeatedly had fondled and kissed her breasts, telling her he needed to do so because “God had told him to get her ready for marriage.”

    The affidavit said at one point, Cool also touched the teen’s vaginal area with his hands.

    “He told her he knew from God that she was doing things to make an evil spirit enter her in her pubic area and that he had to touch her pubic area to pray the evil out of her,” the teen told police, according to the affidavit.

    The alleged victim said she initially tried to tell Cool not to touch her and asked if they could just pray instead, but he rejected her request. She said she did not tell her mother what Cool did until this year because she “feared what God would do to her if she told anyone.”

    The conduct with the pre-teen girl, which allegedly occurred during the winter of 2007 and 2008, mostly involved Cool’s rubbing the child’s body, according to a separate affidavit on file at Vermont District Court in Middlebury.

    Cool, described by the older female relative as a priest with the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, is listed on the rolls of the Community of Christ Church in Independence, Mo., as a financial contributor to the organization, a church spokeswoman said.

  171. Interesting, cajiM.

    Wonder if he knows the Mohler brothers.

    Same church and same area of Missouri.

  172. Cool and the Mohlers are really sick. But “God made me do it”. Yeah, right

  173. Cool’s charges are from Vermont, hmmmmm, don’t we know of someone else from Vermont….

  174. Ron

    No thats really NOT what the Judge said – the first line was a copy – paste from some obscure tin foil hat conspiracy theorist blog.

    He WISHES the Judge said that – but its not.

    And if you thought those JP’s had penis envy, you really can see it in action on the baby poop colored aforementioned site – he drifts around amongst all these indicted polygamists, sorely wishing he could have been recognized in their club, but instead, he is gathering tens of dollars to launch a campaign to legalize it.

  175. Jim

    I guess that sets back the mad hatters in Vermont who want to make it legal for such priests to grab up little girls and add them to thier list of wives.

    The article didnt note any Phools who were making headway but instead shows the outrage society has against such pedophiles priest or not.

    Being a Priest or Bishop or Prophet just makes it worse, as you see in the article he was manipulating his position of trust on the girl, and as such should have an enhanced sentence.

    No amount of tin foil makes what this creep did right. They can spin it six ways from Sunday, they wont phool anyone.

  176. Stamp:

    ???

    Alin’s quote @ 7:11 is an exact lift from the order the JP signed.

  177. Sadie and Stamp:

    I was referring to the quoted portion of Alin’s post. The “Shut up and show up” is Bill M’s spin on it.

  178. Honestly, Ron, it’s knowing that judges are busy and don’t have any time to waste that makes me believe that the inclusion of all that evidence on the computer stick was an honest mistake on the attorney’s part. They would have known that a lot of records to wade through would make a judge cranky and wouldn’t have deliberately done that, in my opinion. After all, I’m just a private citizen with very limited exposure to the court system and I know that. 😉

  179. Rebeckah

    I often rib other lawyers and ask them is they’re charging by the pound.

    I very well could have been a mistake, but the motion itself was what – 300 pages?

    Who knows – maybe they’re just afraid of omitting something so they over react the other way.

    However, clearly, there was stuff on that memory stick that was totally and wholly irrelevant.

  180. Phillip Garrido is using the legal system in an attempt to get contact with Jaycee Dugard. Prosecutors used portions of the diary she kept while in captivity to show how he manipulated her.

    “District Attorney Vern Pierson said Dugard’s writings show that Phillip Garrido controlled her in the past and was trying to exert continued psychological pressure on her from jail.

    Dugard, now 29, has “emphatically stated to our office that she does not want any contact with the defendants or their attorneys,” Pierson said in the documents. “The people ask this court to protect Ms. Doe and to, once and for all, put an end to the defendant’s manipulation.”

    The papers referred to Dugard as “Jane Doe” because she was 11 when she was kidnapped and sexually assaulted.”

  181. Ron,

    I think you were confused first, I know that part was from the order.

    LadySadie called alin out on it, and she was 100% correct – the quip wasnt from the Judge even though the latter part was.

    The added quip was actually from the Hugely McPhooled website. He can be smelled a mile away.

  182. Ron

    “Who knows – maybe they’re just afraid of omitting something so they over react the other way.

    However, clearly, there was stuff on that memory stick that was totally and wholly irrelevant.”

    ============

    Thats an interesting argument. And though I havent read the entire data that was on there, I tend to agree there is a lot of stuff that by itself may not seen to be relevant, the body of work as a whole IS.

    In other words, the fact the Priest in Vermont was counseling the Young girl may seem innocuous and just a normal part of his duty, but when taken in the context he was fondling her privates to prevent evil forces from entering, his counseling attempts suddenly give you a “WOW WTF” moment.

    So these guys praying, saying who is or isnt going to hell, where to shuffle this or that, who to handle, each in their ownself may seem like a little bit of funny, but in the context of the entire documentation, you see a systemic pattern of abuse by those in authority, and thats the machine Wisan is up against.

    It’s wholly relevant. And I suspect if there is a conviction it will be brought out again on appeal, though perhaps annotated.

    The FLDS are systemic abusers of the never ending kind, and it may also be found they are enabled by local LE and judiciaries amongst others.

  183. Oh wait I got ahead of myself. Why was JP Kalalui disqualified again?

  184. Stamp

    Supposedly there were things like pictures on the memory stick – I think the dictations are clearly relevant, but supposedly there was stuff on there that had no real bearing on Wisan’s case.

    I could borrow a computer phrase – some of that was shovel-ware.

  185. Ron,

    Excuse me, you were right, BM pinched that one out, the BP site went crazy in a different direction. I bet he hates doing that.

  186. Ron,

    I remember the atty mentioning photos and all sorts of things, but as I recall they “werent” on the stick submitted. But I dont know, I didnt acquire them, I dont think you did either, but Brooke could have and it appears to me if there were photos, she would certainly have rang the bell over it.

    The FLDSrecords site just had a few months of dictations (not Diary) and no photos whatsoever.

    D’arcy mentioned possession of other data and in reading the letter to the court I dont think all that was on there, but its sealed for review and future resubmittal.

    Brooke did seem to call the Dictations a “Diary” in her article, at least thats the un-changed name for it as the article header, so is it Dictations AND diary, or Dictations CALLED Diary?

    Brooke doesnt clarify. Imagine that, her being down the middle and all.

  187. Oh, and Shovel ware indeed, I would have liked to see an index pointing to various abuses of power, my eyes need a rest too. That said, the entire document is a fairy tale that presumes Warren is the FLDS Queen, just some parts are more heinous than others.

    There was one dictation I queried “hell”.

    I found some dozen references, and it pretty much gives you the picture straight up, get pulled by the nose ring Warren installed on the sheeples or dont pass go, dont collect $200, go straight to hell, and they mean it buddy!

    (of course who takes those bozo’s serious nowadays anyways? Oh, unless you live in a house you built they could kick you out of)

  188. BTW

    Ron

    Your comment on the JP’s having “PE” got bill to thinking you sound like Natalie.

    he he he

    Yeah, his hat is twisted on a little too tightly, but we know that.

  189. His hat twisted too tightly? How’s that different from his tidywhities?

  190. Bill wears everything too tight and wound up. He’ like old faithful, smoke shoots out his ears on a regular basis!

  191. Just wanted to post a comment that didn’t make it through Brooke’s censorship:

    Ken says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    February 10, 2010 at 11:43 pm
    A little reading between the lines ….

    The cities of Hildale and Colorado City have little resources to improve the infrastructure that is necessary to accommodate the utilities and hook ups for a growing population. Naturally, they will see that FLDS members are taken care of, but they are short on resources when a non-FLDS person moves into the community.

    It is true that the towns lack the resources to make the improvements, but why is that?

    It’s because the towns have been diverting resources away from the Short Creek area by way of Twin City Water Works and Twin City Water Authority. Water works brings in revenue of 250,000 – 350,000 per year and they no longer maintain the water system or delivery — they only maintain the pumps. (This is water that belongs to the UEP, by the way, but it is being sold by TCWW who does not pay royalties or rent to the UEP Trust). While Short Creek suffers, Zion is built in Texas. No shortage of resources in Eldorado at the YFZ Ranch.

    In one of the UEP recent filings there is information about this — TCWW paid “tithes” through their account, they paid for Allred’s private living expenses, they paid for fuel to haul materials to build the Ranch in Texas, they made donations to the Bishop’s Storehouse. The money is being funneled out of the city, the towns are being mismanaged so severely. Disincorporate!

    BaileyL raises a good point — it is discriminatory to refuse services only to non-FLDS, and that is precisely what happens, and Stirba knows it.

    Having said all of that, I don’t think there’s a chance in hell Shurtleff will actually seek disincorporation. Now, Arizona, on the other hand ….

  192. Just wanted to post one that didnt make it through Brooke’s censorship:

    Ken says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    February 11, 2010 at 9:52 pm
    The FLDS members did not file a criminal complaint about the “intrusion.” It was the “city prosecutor” who decided all by himself to pursue charges against Wisan based on Isaac Wyler’s testimony at his own trial — which is being appealed. There was no complaint, no investigation, no victim statements, no interviews, no evidence at all.

    Brook, do you know what this case is about? There was no break in and there is no allegation about a break in. The trespass charge stems from the allegation that Bruce Wisan and Jethro Barlow solicited Isaac Wyler to look in the window of someone’s home. Ironically, the so-called “victims” of this crime were not living in the home at the time of the alleged solicitation to trespass (how absurd!), they were not damaged or harmed in any way, and they did not have an occupancy agreement or lease or any other right to occupy the home, which is owned by the UEP Trust, a home which Bruce Wisan would have had every right to enter or look into.

    In the history of US law, I doubt that anyone has ever been charged with solicitation to trespass. This is the lowest class misdemeanor, the equivalent of a traffic citation. Does anyone not wonder why the “city prosecutor” is so fired up about a little misdemeanor and why they had to bring in Piccarreta to represent the non-complaining “victims”?

  193. And another …

    Ken says:

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    February 10, 2010 at 11:43 pm

    A little reading between the lines ….

    The cities of Hildale and Colorado City have little resources to improve the infrastructure that is necessary to accommodate the utilities and hook ups for a growing population. Naturally, they will see that FLDS members are taken care of, but they are short on resources when a non-FLDS person moves into the community.

    It is true that the towns lack the resources to make the improvements, but why is that?

    It’s because the towns have been diverting resources away from the Short Creek area by way of Twin City Water Works and Twin City Water Authority. Water works brings in revenue of 250,000 – 350,000 per year and they no longer maintain the water system or delivery — they only maintain the pumps. (This is water that belongs to the UEP, by the way, but it is being sold by TCWW who does not pay royalties or rent to the UEP Trust). While Short Creek suffers, Zion is built in Texas. No shortage of resources in Eldorado at the YFZ Ranch.

    In one of the UEP recent filings there is information about this — TCWW paid “tithes” through their account, they paid for Allred’s private living expenses, they paid for fuel to haul materials to build the Ranch in Texas, they made donations to the Bishop’s Storehouse. The money is being funneled out of the city, the towns are being mismanaged so severely. Disincorporate!

    BaileyL raises a good point — it is discriminatory to refuse services only to non-FLDS, and that is precisely what happens, and Stirba knows it.

    Having said all of that, I don’t think there’s a chance in hell Shurtleff will actually seek disincorporation. Now, Arizona, on the other hand ….

  194. Well now, Ken-Whoeveryouare, thank you very much. I strongly suspect every word you just wrote in the above two posts are true.

  195. Thanks Ken

    Indeed, the truth is hard to find on the Trib or its blog – rather it is exposed elswhere, like here.

    Its kind of sad that a news outlet would hide truths from its readers.

    Are they ashamed of themselves? Ought to be, the whole lot of them out there, from LE to the media to the Governors office.

  196. The FLDS members did not file a criminal complaint about the “intrusion.” It was the “city prosecutor” who decided all by himself to pursue charges against Wisan based on Isaac Wyler’s testimony at his own trial — which is being appealed. There was no complaint, no investigation, no victim statements, no interviews, no evidence at all.
    =========================================
    Well to be honest the state of Utah was the victim of this crime.

  197. Oh, please.

  198. Anyone see Fred around lately?

  199. CW wrote “Believe it or not, apparently lesbian behavior is commonly described in African polygynous women, although no statistical data regarding its prevalence is available.”

    Yes, I believe it. Human beings are always trying to get their needs met. If life closes the door on the most obvious paths to happiness, we open other doors. And I think there are some women who turn to other women because of being abused by men.

  200. AL

    LMAO – yeah, the State of Utah has been the victim of many FLDS crimes.

    Wisan is trying to put a stop to it – but as you see, the FLDS think they can win by playing stupid games like telling the Supreme Court they raies Holy Cows.

    The only thing the FLDS ever raise is Holy Hell, and if it isnt in the courtroom its on each other. Hellish sons of B’s they are, indeed.

  201. channeling Fred

    FU Alin10
    Love, Fred

  202. CW wrote “Believe it or not, apparently lesbian behavior is commonly described in African polygynous women, although no statistical data regarding its prevalence is available.”

    In Dr Janet Bennion’s book, Women of Principle, she states that many of the women in polygynous relationships in fundamentalist communities stay in these communities for the relationships they have with one another, not for the relationships they have with the men. She goes on to infer that there was lesbian sexual activity taking place, but does not quantify it or measure it in those communities.

  203. Alinusara,
    you still haven’t answered my question – which Southern Baptist faction do you belong to – pedo Baptist or credo Baptist ?

  204. CW, In his dictations, Jeffs expressed concern about the women getting massages for muscle pain because it might lead to sin. So, I’m pretty sure that he was against such shenanigans.

  205. I’m sure he was opposed – and I am also sure that it didn’t stop many people …

  206. “…the state of Utah was the victim of this crime.”

    Which is why the charges are in Arizona.

    Try to at least get some of the details right, would ya?

  207. Nah, that would require actually reading something involved with the case!

  208. #

    “…the state of Utah was the victim of this crime.”

    Which is why the charges are in Arizona.

    Try to at least get some of the details right, would ya?

    TexasTwist said this on February 12, 2010 at 2:59 PM
    **********

    Thank you TT, I now have to replace my keyboard, spit sweet tea all over it!

  209. Alinusara,
    you still haven’t answered my question – which Southern Baptist faction do you belong to – pedo Baptist or credo Baptist ?
    ==============================================
    Sorry didn’t see the question. I dunno.

  210. The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) is a United States-based, Christian denomination. It is the world’s largest Baptist denomination and the largest Protestant body in the US with over 16 million members and more than 42,000 churches.[2]

    The word Southern in Southern Baptist Convention stems from its having been founded and rooted in the Southern United States. The SBC became a separate denomination in 1845 in Augusta, Georgia, following a regional split with northern Baptists over the issues of slavery and missions. Since the 1940s, the SBC has lost some of its regional identity.[3] While still heavily concentrated in the US South, the SBC has member churches across America and has 42 state conventions.[4]

    Southern Baptists put a heavy emphasis on the individual conversion experience including a public immersion in water for baptism and a corresponding rejection of infant baptism.[4] SBC churches are evangelical in doctrine and practice. Specific beliefs based on biblical interpretation can vary somewhat due to the congregational governance system that gives autonomy to individual local Baptist churches.

  211. All the knowledge on being baptist that Wikipedia has to offer, CW!

  212. Thanks Alinusara, you just outed yourself.
    All Southern Baptists are credo Baptists, and they know it.

  213. Just catching up after a > 9 hr. power outage here with an unheard of dump of > 8 inches of snow yesterday. (My WOTD = definitely as I dump my thoughts in here – before we lose power again.)
    ~~~~~~~~~
    Yes, FLDS priesthood is definitely against lesbianism but…
    CW is right about that not stopping them. I can’t quantify it either, but it most definitely occurs – and more than just a little.
    ~~~~~~~~~
    As for songs while parading the Crick, I’m definitely in favor of R.E.M.’s “Losing My Religion” and Eagles’ “Lyin’ Eyes.” Definitely do love those Eagles!
    ~~~~~~~~~
    TT & PT, I don’t have cable either so if you or anyone else here knows how/where to get a copy of the NatGeo show, I definitely have to see it!!

  214. my southern baptist church sure as heck isn’t evangelical in either doctrine or practice.

    hmmmmmm maybe we’re part of the texas baptist convention.

  215. PT, all Baptists are credo Baptists by definition.

  216. “Yes, FLDS priesthood is definitely against lesbianism but…
    CW is right about that not stopping them. I can’t quantify it either, but it most definitely occurs – and more than just a little.”

    Well described in the African and American literature.
    Polygyny has no effect on decreasing extramarital relations
    in men in the African literature… and it increases the incidence of extramarital affairs that women have, both with other men and other women.
    It is so much fun to debunk all their stupid theories on the benefits of polygyny with SCIENCE

  217. but we aren’t evangelical and heck, we even allow dancing.

  218. Well to be honest the state of Utah was the victim of this crime.

    Alinusara10 said this on February 12, 2010 at 2:25 PM

    Alinusara10 are you just getting dumber every day or do you have some other mental disorder? Utah has nothing to do with this trespassing case. It is ARIZONA where the charges have been filed. Your really are a twit.

    This latest stupid comment deserves a double whammy.
    Alinusara10 FU, Love Fred
    Alinusara10 FU, Love Fred

  219. we even allow dancing

    Well, I wonder just how “Southern Baptist” you’d be. I grew up in the old Southwest Conference and had a number of friends who ended up at Baylor University.

    There are a number of buildings at Baylor that were given with what’s legally known as “reversionary clauses.”

    If dances are ever held at several buildings on the Baylor campus, those buildings would revert to the heirs of their original donors.

    I know “Baptist” is pretty broad. Heck there was a gay Baptist church in Austin. I do wonder just how broad “Southern Baptist” is.

  220. catwhisperer it is obvious that Alinusara10 is neither type of Baptist.

    However you did ask if Alinusara10 is a pedo Baptist.

    Drop the Baptist part and you’ll have exactly what Alinusara10 is.

    Alinusara10 is a pedo as in pedophile lover.

  221. Folks,
    All Southern Baptists are credo – Baptists by definition.
    They do NOT allow infant (pedo) Baptism, you must be a believer and
    you must first make a confession of faith prior to baptism.
    This fact is lost on Alinusara.
    He had to look it up on Wikipedia.
    I know Baptists, I have many friends who are Baptists, and I am an ex – Roman Catholic Baptist.

    Alinusara, you are no Baptist.

    How is lying for the Lord working for you?

  222. All Southern Baptists are credo – Baptists by definition.
    They do NOT allow infant (pedo) Baptism, you must be a believer and
    you must first make a confession of faith prior to baptism.

    So, if the holy spirit comes upon you when smoke marijuana does that make you a “weedo?”

  223. And Lord please deliver us from the Speedo Baptists.

  224. Ron,
    Ask Alinusara … he seems to think that if he reads and quotes from Wikipedia that makes him a Southern Baptist. He obviously isn’t, he just outed himself.
    I’m a Baptist and I think dancing, drinking small – moderate amounts of alcohol, playing cards,(not gambling) and wearing slacks is ok.
    I’m not a fundamentalist.

  225. Betty,
    Speedo – Baptists are right out …

  226. Lordy – speedo Baptists? Mind numbing and scary all at the same time.

  227. TBM,
    Good to see you here, I’ll check it out.
    At any time in the foreseeable future, do you expect to release the Priesthood records in redacted format?

  228. ron – both of my parents are graduates of baylor. my mom went to baylor because a&m didn’t allow women at that time. my daddy grew up in waco, so baylor was convenient. i myself am a longhorn, but i have an aggie brother, a tech brother and a baylor brother. so far my son claims he’ll be going to school in austin. as you can see, we supported the old southwest conference in a generous way.

  229. Ah thats what the FLDS are

    Creeko and Metho Mormons

  230. stamp, it should be criko mormons

  231. So, if the holy spirit comes upon you when smoke marijuana does that make you a “weedo?”

    Ron in Houston said this on February 12, 2010 at 6:02 PM

    HA HA Ron. Good one.

  232. Lordy – speedo Baptists? Mind numbing and scary all at the same time.

    Ron in Houston said this on February 12, 2010 at 6:11 PM

    Ron, not if they look like Michael Phelps.

    Winter Olympic Opening Ceremonies just starting. I’m off to watch them. No Michael Phelps, but Apollo will be there.

    Let’s hope these Olympics go well and nothing crazy happens. And let’ hope our wonderful US athletes do well, have a safe and fun time competing and bring home LOTS of medals.

    God Bless America.

  233. Winter Olympic Opening Ceremonies just starting. I’m off to watch them.

    I’d call myself a member of the Colbert nation. So, go US speed skating!

  234. We are working on getting the records in an acceptable form. At this time we are not sure when those will be available or how much will need to be redacted. There may be people who got them from the court records as well.

  235. FLDS TEXAS Admin, can you check your email? I know of someone that did get the court records and want to share something with you.

  236. http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/2010/02/dictations-dispute-in-supreme-court-case/

  237. i just watched the video of “we are the world” haiti. the video was well done.

  238. Just think, Adams could have put her “investigative talents” into looking into FLDS criminal acts long ago rather than all the lies, half-lies and damned lies she wastes her time on.

  239. In her latest post, Brooke asks this question

    “So who in Texas got the subpoenas?”

    referring to subpoenas issued by Wisan in April 2008 seeking documents and other materials that were seized from YFZ.

    I don’t know the answer to her question, but if it were me I’d make a quick check of old news articles to see who the subpoenas were issued to.

    Trish Choate — Scripps Howard:

    “On his behalf, San Angelo attorney Samuel Allen submitted subpoenas to 51st District Attorney Stephen R. Lupton and Assistant District Attorney Allison Palmer on April 16 requesting the documents and items.”

    http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy862.html

    Ben Winslow — Deseret News:

    “The Deseret News first reported last month that Wisan issued subpoenas to Tom Green County, Texas, prosecutors — seeking evidence seized in the raid on the YFZ Ranch. Wisan wants to know about the financing of the ranch and the FLDS’ first-ever temple.”

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_20080605/ai_n25485513/

    And maybe, just maybe, such a search might even turn up a copy of the subpoena itself (pp 37-39):

    http://www.childbrides.org/SF_Report(5-2-08)Exhibits17-32.pdf

    Oh, and the funniest thing I’ve read lately…

    TexasBluesman is Natalie Malonis.

    Or Wisan.

    And here I thought Lester had him pegged as being Dave Doran.

  240. That is assuming the April 2008 subpoena is the one Wisan is referring to.

  241. Cheese-Louise! I’ve tried to be laid back about the (relevant & valid) evidence posting of Warren’s dictations…. and then subsequent removal based on purported legal issues requiring redaction — but damn, Brooke is pissing me off.

    Must be a sweet-spot to have a blog on a (?) respected news-forum where you can bake up any version of a story you want and then moderate/prohibit any response to your craptastic-bull-shittery.

    Completely ignore the profound mountain…MOUNTAIN! of journalistic opportunities available on the issue of multiple marriages…and pay special attention to omitting felony convictions for child sexual assault….but,

    BUT — Brooke, be sure to jump on Warren’s Dictations and hump it like a gangsta.

    shill.

  242. With nearly 1 Billion in debt, the Salt Lake Tribune seems to be taking a new tact on gathering stories.

    Once thought to block information, MIT studies prove properly styled Tin Foil Hats actually MAGNIFY information, and may well become the new newsgathering tool for flailing hard copy dailies. Think of all the plane tickets, interviews and research these will save!

    Evidently!

  243. Awe but the money quote was that perhaps the government knew about the hats all along and have been perpetuating that in order to steal our thoughts.

    Sneaky bureaucrats. Now where’s Obama’s birth certificate?

  244. Bigots.

    Must have been something in the air yesterday.

    I’m blaming it on the contrails.

  245. Bigots.

    Must have been something in the air yesterday.

    I’m blaming it on the contrails.

    Hmmm, I nominate this for most random comment of this thread.

    It definitely went zoom over my head.

  246. Ron

    Yeah, that pesky certificate! The one I saw MUST have been photo chopped!

    Say, about those truthers – I saw Rosie giving a dozen reasons why the Government needed to do that on 9-11 and she has me convinced.

    Too coincidental. They dont have 9-1-1 in Saudia Arabi so it HAD to be planned by Bush. I wonder how much it cost to rent all those Homie-cide bombers.

  247. Ron

    If Brooke isnt getting her info from tin foil hats or contrails, maybe its a box of cracker jacks. Journalism is expensive to produce nowadays in the old fasioned way, so they are finding new ways.

    Hugh must have given her his secrets. Not that any of them work, but like an experimental airplane, its fun to watch anyway.

  248. Ron,

    Are comments about tinfoilers not bigoted?

    Guess I’ll pull my tongue out of my cheek and keep it away from there.

  249. I think the whole objection to any reference to tinfoil is absurdly overblown. BEHAVIOR can be crazy, and IDEAS can be crazy even if the person themselves is not certifiable.

    But it’s part of Hugh’s world; he’s going to set arbitrary rules and then pompously invoke them whenever anyone bests him with logic. Tiresome and adolescent trick, like playing cards with your brother and he invokes mysterious rules whenever you are winning.

    I would completely ignore him except that the less intelligent posters copy his ideas. All Bill or Hugh have to do is say something like “violates HIPA” and that will be repeated by every pedophile apologist on the web for weeks. Obviously, facts, real thought or research are not what fuels these people.

  250. The other thing about the tin foil hat: Hugh claims that this is a behavior that is synonymous with real mental illness and thus is an insult to people who can’t control themselves. By defining it in that way, he is making a straw man.

    Read the definition of “tin foil hat” in Wikipedia. It is defined more in social terms as being related to CONSPIRACY THEORISTS. The original use of the term was by a science fiction writer in 1927. Not that Wiki is without errors, but I think its a more unbiased reflection on how our society uses those words than Hugh is.

    I bet you could go through a whole lot of real schizophrenic patient case files without finding a single one who used tin foil on their heads. Really.

    In short, he’s full of it. Up to the eye balls. He’s made up a rule to make his enemies wrong and invokes it whenever it’s convenient. Like the anonymity rule. In his world, if you use your real name, post the real name of your wife, tell everyone where you work and live, then you must be telling the truth about everything else and unable to construct a logical fallacy. Which is, in itself, a logical fallacy.

  251. I apparently don’t have much tolerance for stupid this morning.

  252. Alright Twist – I get it now.

    Kudos to Stamp for posting real science regarding those precious foil hats.

  253. I apparently don’t have much tolerance for stupid this morning.

    Hmmm, I don’t know – you seem to never have much tolerance for stupdity.

    That’s OK – I’m with you on that.

  254. Out of sensitivity to his viewpoint I’ve decided to stop using the foil hat phrase in reference to Hugh.

    He’s made it clear he sees it as an insult so as pertains to him, I’m not going to use that phrase.

    Sure I disagree with the guy, but I’m not here to hurl insults at folks (well mostly I guess 🙂 )

  255. Betty, I believe the whole ‘tin foil hat’ venue harkens back to the 1950s when aluminum was a new wonder foil, flying saucers were all the rage and UFOs were believed to be able to control the human mind while hovering overhead.

    Tin-foil hats in pop culture

    The paranoid centaur Foaly, in Eoin Colfer’s Artemis Fowl series of books, wears a tin-foil hat to protect from mind-readers.
    In the Simpsons episode “Brother’s Little Helper”, Bart wears a trash can lid on his head and covers his body in tin-foil, as well as lining the ceiling with wire coat hangers to protect himself from the influence of Major League Baseball’s mind control satellite after he begins taking an anti-ADD drug “Focusyn”.
    In the film Lovesick, Dudley Moore plays a psychiatrist who gives a homeless patient some aluminium foil to “protect” the patient from the “mind control rays” his patient claims are bombarding him.
    In Signs, the children and younger brother of the lead character wear tin-foil hats to prevent their minds from being read. This is parodied in Scary Movie 3, in which the tin-foil hats are actually giant Hershey’s Kisses
    In the X-Men movies, Magneto wears a helmet that prevents Stryker’s son (in X2) and Professor X (in X-Men and X2) from using telepathy against him.
    In the Sci Fi Channel (United States) original movie Control Factor, nonconsensual test subjects in a government experiment to incite violence in an inner city neighborhood use hats lined with copper wool to protect themselves from microwave-based mind control signals.
    Former Marvel Comics supervillain Juggernaut wore a helmet made of a mystical alloy as protection against telepathy.
    The character Joe Wickes was featured in British soap EastEnders suffering mental illness and constructing a tin-foil hat for “protection”.
    The novel Idiots in the Machine by Edward Savio portrays a character who believes that tin foil keeps harmful gamma rays away and becomes a media sensation, marketing a successful line of foil hats to Chicago.
    In Friends, Lizzie is a homeless woman who offers Phoebe her tin-foil hat.
    In Age Of Mythology, typing the message “TINFOILHAT” randomly reassigns ownership for all of the units on the map.
    While testing myths and urban legends about microwaves on the television show MythBusters, Adam is shown in several shots wearing tin-foil hats. In one scene, it is molded over his head, and in another, it is wrapped around like a chef’s hat.
    In the video game Psychonauts, the character Dogen wears a tin-foil hat to prevent psychic “accidents” in which he makes people’s heads explode.

    So the whole ‘tin foil hat’ scenario just doesn’t rise to Pharisee’s unique meaning nor generally meant by the average earthling.

  256. Betty – Ron I’m with ya there.

    I have been seeing and using that tin foil hat term for years, to depict paranoid or conspiracy theorists.

    Our society is full of them and the label has stuck. That hugh has a problem, is hughs problem. He certainly isnt going to change the cultural vernacular of the current language nor are his lame attempts at legalizing polygyny working for him either.

    He is a small man with big problems, which he seems to enjoy carting around on his shoulders.

    BTW I just saw a post where he called the FLDS a “SATANIC RELIGION” and on that same site someone raked him over the coals for stalking and making fun of a mentally ill girl.

    Originally Posted by Annette: “The members of the FLDS are the usual spokespersons in this country for polygamy.”

    Hugh McBryde: “They are the spokes persons for a Satanic Religion.”

    I guess its OK for the Huge McNut to go around abusing others, but please dont offend him! He knows a paranoid person!

    http://www.fundamentalforums.com/the-fighting-forum/16004-scriptural-arguments-against-polygamy-6.html

  257. I’m glad I don’t read that Pharisee’s blog – just by what filters through other posters I can see he’s a hate filled and hateful loser.

  258. Ron,

    you post on his blog and seem to want to keep up a conversation with him. I do not. I generally do not get involved in group fits of insulting people, either, but I’m not going to allow someone who is so disrespectful to other people to dictate moral standards to me. He can kiss my butt.

  259. Ron

    See, what I dont get is how mr McAbuse gets to pick who abuses who.

    He makes rules for that term on his site, fine, I dont post there anyway, and few do. Its hard to have a conversation with the runt, he is abusive to everyone who doesnt toot his horn.

    Why anyone would want to give him an ounce of respect is beyond my reasoning, but I have seen some try to engage him and its always futile. I mean always. Looking at that FFF site, he spent years being abusive to women there, and he got flamed plenty in return before he eventually was banned.

    The fact he espouses polygamy with girls as young as 13 concerns me as well and has led me to lose all respect for him, if you hadnt noticed.

  260. Hugh said on that page that Stamp copied that women are, biblically, in bondage to their husbands and that he completely agrees with that because the Bible is his standard for behavior (or at least the passages he choses to focus on are). Then he has the balls to claim that he is not a sexist, because slaves have the same standing before God as their masters. When he objects to anyone referencing his wife, he’s saying “That there is MY slave. It’s no business of yours what I own. Go get your own.” If you decide that he’s really concerned about the well being of a beloved human being that you are making that assumption without any facts to support it. Probably because YOU are a decent human being and would feel that way about your wife.

    I’m not arguing against what you chose to do in reference to Hugh’s requests. But if you start telling me that I have to be nice cause Hugh said so, I’m afraid that will back fire on you. I have zero respect for his sense of “ethics”.

  261. JI,

    Good examples! Thanks.

  262. Hugh should check that paranoid Schitz list, I’ve noticed some symptoms, four or more indicate a problem, andI’m not sure his public espousings of delusions aren’t working the cure.

  263. Betty

    I’m certainly not telling anyone how to behave. I try to maintain certain standards for myself; however, I often fail at those standards. Sometimes miserably.

    I don’t necessarily disagree with what any of you say about folks like Hugh. I just prefer to engage him in dialog rather than getting into fights and hurling insults back and forth.

    The problem as I see it is that in things FLDS, the PR spin by the FLDS is that the folks who are tracking them and trying to expose their multiple abuses are nothing but “bigots and haters.” It seems to me the less you look like a “bigot” or a “hater” the better.

    Eh, but that’s just my opinion – for what it’s worth.

  264. Utah Legislature is full of tin foil hatters!

    Committee OKs bill to opt out of REAL ID

    “The worrisome provisions include the addition of radio frequency chips set into the state’s driver licenses that Sandstrom said “could lead to tracking of movements of individuals and could be used to track the purchases of things such as ammunition and guns.”

    http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14393039

  265. Hugh has called me an idiot. If I behaved as he did, I would start a spin that calling people idiots is really an insult to those who are born with mental challenges. After all, only a hater would make fun of someone who can not learn no matter how they try. I have a relative who is challenged in this manner and I take it very personally when you insult these helpless people in this way.

    Instead of going that route and making a total jackass of my self, I figured that if you are going to talk about religion, politics and sex on the internet, someone is eventually going to call you by a bad name. So I just acted like an adult and IGNORED it.

    I figure that the FLDS spin is just that; lies and distortions that are meant to cover up their own crimes. I think there are people here who go to far, I don’t think I’m one of them, but I could always be wrong; it’s happened before! If you think that I personally post something that is bad for our message over all, please feel free to contact me privately and I’ll listen. I’ll even give you my email addy if you want it.

    But, you are far more likely to get my agreement by appealing to the idea of winning over more people who are undecided with our sterling behavior than with trying to get me to feel empathy for Hugh McBryde. That well has run dry. You are talking to people who have been personally attacked by Hugh with threats of exposure of our real identities, with threats of law suits, with research into any flaw in our past, real or imagined and publishing of same. This is a man who called a policewoman in another state and started talking to her about her children and later tried to get her in trouble for a conspiracy that exists only in his own mind! That’s just a bit more than hurling insults. That’s attempting to cause real harm. The man is POND SCUM.

  266. Betty

    I’m not disagreeing with you. I feel his repeated threats to “out” Blues are abusive.

    In many ways it’s a “reap as you’ve sown” type situation. Hugh has in my mind sown a lot of bad seeds so to the extent bad things happen to him, he’s probably got no one but himself to blame.

    I just don’t want to sow my own bad seeds and have to harvest that crop.

  267. Ron it isn’t just that Hugh has tried to out Blues. He has tried to out others on different forms.
    He zoomed in on a Preacher man from the Baptist Church on one forum.
    He went after Rozita.
    He zoomed in on those that worked for the Colorado Police Department.
    Blues in Hughs mind has been a lawyer, some one in LE, a reporter, he said that Blues might be Malonis. That he might even be you. or that you might be Malonis or someone might be Wisan. I forget who Brooke was.

    And if that isn’t enough hot dish the man then asks people to respect his privacy.

    Forget the tin hat. Hugh is a noodle head.

    Who knows maybe Hugh really isn’t Hugh. but his other brother Hugh.

    Anyone wonder why “Hugh” would be working as a car salesman or whatever title he wants to give himself and has so much knowledge dealing with schizophrenia?

    Test program gone wrong in my opinion.

  268. I have enough troubles trying to sort out the Jessops, Allreds and the Jeffs.

    I don’t think I have any more space in my head to try and figure out who the ownership of a nic on a message board.

  269. Walton, I think I love you.

  270. 🙂 Thanks Betty.

    There has been more talk about where these documents came from than there has been about Shurtleff playing ooops did I say that song.

    If people want to blame someone for something so we can move on I’ll take the blame. I’ll take the subpoena.

    It is all crazy imo. All this ta do about the ramblings of Warren. Just does not make any sense to me. Not one little bit.
    Made by a guy that wore red wigs and watched porn with his ladies.

    Crazy stuff this is.

  271. Right, Walton except now the conversation has changed from ‘what’ to ‘who.’

    TexasMom: “Brooke, be sure to jump on Warren’s Dictations and hump it like a gangsta. shill.”

    That there is the reason they call you the High Priestess, baby!

  272. Yes, it is crazy. I think the real issue is that the apologists do not want to be proven wrong. They already have enough info from the dictations, the idea that there is even more is just beyond the pale. Anything else is just a smokescreen, IMHO. Basically, it’s wrong to disprove their conspiracy theory and if there isn’t some law against it, there should be.

  273. Do not feed the troll…..do not feed…..do not feed……

  274. Well, lah dee dah.

  275. Three convictions, with more to follow, pending appeals on the UEPTrust administration, which will not endorse beating standing beneficiaries out of their ownership(s) nor endorse the practices of bigamy and finally watching higher court appeals that uphold the convictions and the search warrant(s) will be enough to silence all the accessories and accomplices. The Federal intervention to end the crime wave and end the criminal syndicate practices will be a welcomed outcome.

  276. I’ve been too busy to participate in the discussion on TBM’s site, I just had the opportunity to review the postings.

    Unfortunately the Pharisee engages in exposing people, insulting people, and criticizing a certain mentally ill female from Colorado who makes phone calls to police departments…which he should not be doing since he claims to have such compassion for the mentally ill.
    He is very quick to point the finger at others for all the same offenses he commits on a regular basis.
    Talk about a lack of insight and self righteousness.
    What I do find most laughable was his statement to Betty – that she is not a protagonist in this discussion or debate – she is simply a “cheerleader”…
    What exactly is his role, and what qualifications, credentials, or expertise does he have to qualify to be a member of the polygamy debate ?

    None that I can determine.

    Certainly nothing that would qualify him any more than Betty.

  277. “What exactly is his role, and what qualifications, credentials, or expertise does he have to qualify to be a member of the polygamy debate ?”

    His plumbing.

  278. That’s about all,Betty.
    He has no professional training relevant to the discussion at all, but he views himself as the arbiter of who may and who may not speak about the issue.
    It is clear, to me at least – for the most part, the intelligentsia supports the anti – polygamy and anti – child bride position.

  279. OK, folks I just “have” to do this. Apparently the “Deer Do It List” really bothers “someone”. The hmmhmm “poster” (wink wink) that posts it on the SLTrib got banned for one week for posting it on the Trib (verified in an email from the Trib). So FLDS Texas Admin – please don’t ban me because here it is:

    Deer Do It List – Revised 2/12/2010
    1. But it’s legal in France at 13 (Whoops , those darn French changed the legal age of consent to 15. Those Frenchies they must have thought the FLDS would move to France and just to persecute those holy FLDS people changed the age all of a sudden in…..1945!)
    2. How do you know they really had sex just because there’s a baby?
    3. DNA isn’t conclusive.
    4. But other people get teenagers pregnant and they don’t go to jail! It’s not fair!
    5. America’s high schools corrupt children and give them condoms!
    6. But they consented and so did their parents, so it can’t be wrong.
    7. They changed the law just to get them (even though the girl is 12 and would be jail bait regardless).
    8. Jurisdiction! Sure she’s got a baby, but you don’t know where it was actually conceived. Just because they got married and live together at the ranch doesn’t mean anything. They could have driven to Reno, had sex, and driven back. And that makes it moral and all as well as legal.
    9. It can’t be illegal cause Holy Father tells uncle warren what to say.
    10. The children are more likely to be assaulted by CPS than by their husbands!
    11. The Virgin Mary was only 13.
    12. It’s natural. Teenagers are better at childbirth than older women anyway.
    13. Our ancestors did it. Why, 150 years ago, this was normal.
    14. They have all those hormones stirring up in them and it’s better to get them married off early to an older man who can support them than to let them and their illegitimate kids live in poverty and shame.
    15. It’s Flora’s fault.
    16. It’s Carolyn’s fault.
    17. It’s Dan Fischer’s fault.
    18. It’s Flora’s and Carolyn’s fault!
    19. A grand jury can indict a ham sandwich!
    20. It’s genocide!
    21. The CPS is in cahoots with the Southern Baptists!
    22. You’re all Nazis!
    23. First Amendment, Freedom of Religion, Press, Assembly!
    24. Fourth Amendment, Unreasonable Search and Seizure, Warrants!
    25. Fifth Amendment, Indictments, Due Process, Self-Incrimination!
    26. Sixth Amendment, Fair and Speedy Trial!
    27. Eighth Amendment, Excessive Bail!
    28. The Judge is in cahoots with CPS (She should be disbarred, run out of town on a rail, tarred and feathered, how dare she)
    29. The whole system is unfair because it is run by a bunch of lesbian menopausal hysterical women who can’t be fair to the FLDS.
    30. It’s all Malonis’ fault!
    31. We are unaware of any underage marriages here.

    32. Although spiritual marriages (may) occur, they are not necessarily consummated until the girls are of age.

    33. A girl’s greatest calling is to be a sister wife and Mother (sometimes all of the above at the same time, depending on who she marries, grandfather, uncle, brother, [step]dad).

    34. Three raids on three polygamists groups in 6 months is a conspiracy to take down Mitt Romney.

    35. “I don’t understand why she was taken away from me.”

    36. Polygamy is needed because there are two percent more women than men, and without a husband, those women would live in poverty.

    37. Deer do it.
    38. Its all a plot because CPS needed blonde-haired, blue-eyed baby’s to sell.
    39. She could have gotten impregnated with a turkey baster.
    40. Warren can change DNA by reassigning families.
    41. Somewhere on the internet there is a list of statistics that have absolutely nothing to do with anything, so the FLDS should be able to rape little girls and everyone should just shut up about it.
    42. BAPTIST BUSES, BAPTIST BUSES, BAPTIST BUSES.
    43. 30 years ago some baby died in Ireland so the FLDS should be able to rape little girls.
    44. I’ve been her step-father for eight years, she owes me.
    45. I have married her two older sisters and given her nephew and nieces, it’s all in the family now.
    46. It’s not my fault, her mother was reassigned to me then she began to ovulate.
    47. She’s my 24th wife and I am 62 years old her wifely duties will be easier if compared to a mother wife.
    48. This is Gentile persecution because monogamy leaves their gentlemen sex obsessed and jealous.
    49. Her mother liked me so much as a reassigned husband, she insisted that I marry her daughter, I was just trying to be a good provider.
    50. “The dictations may not be correct. A girl’s diary I violated had her lying in it”
    51. Wisan is biased against FLDS AND incompetent.
    52. Walther is biased against FLDS AND incompetent.
    53. Denise Lindberg is biased against FLDS AND incompetent.
    54. New from Raymond Jessop’s trial – FLDS girls are sluts and will have sex with anyone.
    55. Also new from Raymond Jessop’s trial – My FLDS brothers are scumbags and are having sex with my wives.
    56. The governor should have called Warren Jeffs personally and explained any law of the state that “might” affect the FLDS.
    57. For every conviction, there will be ten more to take our place
    58. It’s all Dr. Beall’s fault.
    59. They are all false memories, that’s not really a baby you see.
    60. Because the FLDS Trolls want to divert attention away from illegal acts.
    61. If polygamy were legal, Tiger Woods wouldn’t have cheated on his wife with various and assorted cocktail waitresses and porn actresses.
    62. According to Wee Willie Jessop: “Sexual assault of a child is a “victimless” crime, we are being persecuted.”
    63. 12 and 13 year olds are liable to start having sex spontaneously. To keep them holy, they are hooked up and married to a well matured already married grandfatherly type.
    64. It will cost Texas too much money to uphold their laws. Eventually the FLDS will win the right to sexually assault children because Texas will run out of money.
    65. Because Texas is dominated by KKK bigots, or alternatively, Texas is dominated by anti-white bigots.
    66. It’s just a waste of time and money to prosecute FLDS because God told Uncle Warren all the evil gentiles will soon be wiped off the earth.
    67. We are a peaceful people, so we should be allowed to rape little girls.
    68. The cows are sacred and “irreplaceable.” FREE THE COWS!!!
    69. It’s holy to us because it’s part of our religion.
    70. It is a conspiracy of hypnotists implanting false memories.
    71. Someone, somewhere, for some reason wrote a diary so the FLDS should be allowed to rape little girls.

  280. Whoops, that was me posting the “Deer Do It List” but admin please don’t ban me, LOL.

  281. My favorite is #56. Someone should alert Rick Perry that he was negligent in his duties and thus caused all of the FLDS’ problems.

  282. 72. God told me to because the end is near.
    73. Bring on the destructions!

    Courtesy of Warren Jeffs.

    “The Lord wanted me to receive this thirteen-year-old bride and also for her deliverance as well as the Lord allowing this to be a reason in the government’s eyes to come stronger against this people.”

  283. Yup, wouldn’t want that girl to be caught childless when the rapture hits! Just doing her a favor.

  284. So is it cool on here to make jokes about the Rapture?

  285. Yeah, just dont say you need to have three babies and three wives by the next date – whens that, 2012?

    The FLDS have wrung out the Rapture line – too many dates come and gone. But the neat thing, you can always say its coming until its actually happened.

  286. What’s wrong with making jokes about the Rapture?

  287. I’m a troll now?

    I agree with Walton. Instead of talking about the meaning of the dictations – now the subject of discussion concerning the dictations has been turned to WHO done it? (Released them.) Instead of WHAT they say. She nailed it exactly.

    Back on Discussion #24 which ended up being about the mythical WTF ranch in Marfa, TexasMom was voted High Priestess/Prophetess and something else, for her ability to turn a phrase.

    I like and happen to agree with her on her statement re: Brooke.
    Plus I think it’s funny.

  288. I’m disturbed about this rupture bidness.

  289. Miele I got the feeling that I am the troll. But the thing is when things like that are said no one really knows.

    It seems as if I witnessed a scene from one flew over the cuckoo’s nest.

    Blues in case you missed it I did say I was sorry for my comments. I didn’t mean to imply that I had anything to do with your site. Again I truly apologize.

    Maybe all of you guys know what’s going on but I don’t. I am at the point that I need to step away for awhile.

    I’ve always been up front. And I thought everyone else was. I use two nics Walton and Cooper.
    I do not like Hugh and I am fearful of Bill and Co. I truly am.
    I think Polygamy is wrong and I am against abuse of any kind.

    I really wanted to help the kids.

  290. i agree with you too walton. i’ve already said that if someone needed an affidavit to go with the doucments i’d be happy to give them one. where the documents come from isn’t the issue. the issue is all the crimes the documents discuss. those crimes should be the focus. the reason mudpupppy, brooke and hugh (3 stooges) are making such a big fuss about them is they are trying to divert attention from the content of the documents and turn it into a “who done it”. i’m not falling for that. that’s what criminals always do and what they pay attorney’s for. not here and not now. let’s make people face up to the fact that warren jeffs and the men who allowed him to make their decisions for them are criminals and idiots.

  291. Three’s not enough.

  292. “If you once forfeit the confidence of your fellow citizens, you can never regain their respect and esteem. It is true that you may fool all of the people some of the time; you can even fool some of the people all of the time; but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.” ** Abraham Lincoln

    GrannyToad is right.

    Maybe I am being naive but I really really wanted to believe.

  293. believe what?

  294. I have one of those naive seeds too, I keep wishing I could believe all people were good at heart.

    They’re not.

    Even as a child when I saw for myself what evil lurked I still tried to believe, for all I was worth. Tried to believe that the worst could be loved into what, submission to love and goodness, by example?

    I was stupid for a long time.

  295. I don’t go to a lot of the blogs referenced here because I don’t have time or don’t want to wade through the BS.

    But tonight curiosity got the better of me and I took a look at the TexasBluesMan blog and the BS that this Hugh McBryde person spewed today.

    What a nutcase! He is ranting about trying to protect the identity of his wife that he supposedly named on his own blog a year and 1/2 ago. Then today he said he never named her (yet some say he did and then deleted the information) and then he goes on and on and on with MANY personal details that could easily piece together exactly who she is.

    WTF?

  296. He’s trolling.

    He does it for attention.

    Maybe he really thinks there is someone somewhere with deep enough pockets that is stupid enough to be sucked in, whothef knows.

  297. I don’t go to Brooke Adams blog either. But, I am going to channel Fred here because I don’t think she looks for the answers or the good in people. I think she is really negative and instead of reporting relevant news she looks for a twisted hook.

    I consider her to be a pitiful excuse for a news reporter. IMHO she doesn’t report news and she could better utilize her “journalistic” abilities working for a paper like the National Enquirer. She is certainly NOT investigative in her reporting.

    Brooke you fail, FU, Love Fred

  298. Miele said: “I’m a troll now?”

    Not by a long shot. But if you ask again, I shall answer you nothing.

    (I know, I know….that may get old for some folks — but I find it never-endingly funny. forgive)

    Meile: “I agree with Walton. Instead of talking about the meaning of the dictations – now the subject of discussion concerning the dictations has been turned to WHO done it? (Released them.) Instead of WHAT they say. She nailed it exactly.”

    …ya know, Meile, at this point do the dictations really reveal anything (?) more about the character of Warren Jeffs and his machinations than are already known? Yeah, it’s rather astounding that anyone would be so mind-numbingly stupid as to actually record their criminal activity in the first place…then everyone “gasps & graps their pearls” that the stuff gets published somewhere.

    It’s almost like an old James Bond movie where the villain goes into a long-winded, vainglorious explaination of his exploits….mwuuhaaahaaa. (it *would* be funny if not for the reality — this is a very, very ill culture)

    Meile: “Back on Discussion #24 which ended up being about the mythical WTF ranch in Marfa, TexasMom was voted High Priestess/Prophetess and something else, for her ability to turn a phrase.”

    Thanks for the compliment, but I maintain that the WTF Ranch is a total Democracy. (matriarchal, of course) 😉

    Meile: “I like and happen to agree with her on her statement re: Brooke.”

    Brooke is not a polygamy-news reporter…she’s an advocate. She should Woman-Up and OWN it.

    p.s. an aside: To Betty on an earlier/upper-post discussion — I wish to toss my hat in the ring of those who think that being nice to assholes is a poor strategy. (hugs)

  299. There is just no good reason to reward eyesoles. Rewards tend to make them think it’s a Good Thing.

  300. I’ll sue myself tomorrow claiming I’m a troll, but shall do it anonymously and answer myself nothing. Just for you.

    I believe in all kinds of voices as long as they are honest.
    Strident, shrill – what have you. It will not effect this group of child raping sociopaths one iota. Making nice with them is a waste of time. I give you Utah. (Believe me, you can have it.)

    I mirror Blues in that respect. Think what you will. Act on it, cell-o-steel, baby.

    Walton, I’ve not read what you wrote on Blues site, but if he didn’t edit you out, you’re probably OK. If he did, it was probably for legal reasons.

    Keep fighting the good fight. They’re depending on people moving on to other things.

  301. Go Granny, Go Granny – Go Granny go! (OK, I stole it from Jan and Dean.)

  302. TexasMom I find it never-endingly funny too.

  303. i don’t think people will move on. after all the ones currently set for trial have been put into the cellosteel kingdom, we’ll demand they look at others who need cos kingdom assignments as well.

  304. Walton,
    I have absolutely no idea what happened but do not get discouraged. I read your comments both as Cooper and Walton and think you contribute to these boards… and… these boards do have an impact.

  305. I hope Walton is not going to stay away, cause I really like her/him whatever.

    I was not making fun of the Rapture. I was making fun of people who think you should prepare for it by knocking up a 13 year old.

  306. Yeah Walton – what’s up? I don’t think you’ve ever been what I’d call a troll. You’re a valuable contributor to the discussion.

    Sure you get passionate sometimes, but there’s a lot of abuse in this case to get passionate about.

  307. Walton

    Also – don’t worry if something happened at Blues’ site. Blues looks at things as a lawyer and so will be vigilant for things he thinks may have some legal implication. It doesn’t mean you were out of bounds or trolling, it’s just that Blues may have felt it could have some legal consequence for him or you.

  308. Walton, Ron’s right, dont sweat it. There was a person who was soundly and profoundly put in his place on Blues site.

    THAT was the troll, and he asks for it over and over. Its a good thing when abusers are exposed.

    You have done nothing but post the truth.

  309. BTW

    hat tip to blues

    It appears the SCOU has told the FLDS to sit in the back of the bus and STFU.

  310. Happy Valentines Day, FLDS Texas folks, and congratulations – over 300,000 hits.
    Great job.
    Walton, don’t be concerned, you are not a troll.

  311. I think we’ve paid enough attention to Hugh now — not that i’m going to censor it, but think about bringing the conversation back around to FLDS or non-Hugh topics as well.

  312. I think we’re with you there, FLDS Texas.

  313. i’m there FLDS Texas.

  314. Thanks.

  315. September 21, 2002

    Warren Jeffs met with a man and his two wives.

    The first wife had left her husband “without Priesthood direction” and was staying in Beryl, Utah at the home of one of her sons.

    “She said that she couldn’t stay with [her husband] any more, but wanted to be in the Priesthood work. I know of father’s directive that she should go back to her husband. I did not correct her at the time so that we could hold on to the children.”

    “…there was no Priesthood separation here. This was the choice of his first wife.”

    We can see how her making her own choice was received.

    “I did not correct her at the time so that we could hold on to the children.”

  316. Sure the children aren’t hostages….

  317. …and the women are free to leave at any time.

  318. SO SAD for that mother and her children.

  319. Ive been gone several days,, trying to catch up. Amazingly, some people have assumed unjustly that there were photos on the dictations that were published,,, NOT ONE PHOTO! OF ANY kind were in the group of dictation for 2002. I really wouldn’t even bother calling them dictations, (personal or otherwise) they were business notes, which in my mind are exactly what they should be called, evidence in criminal activity.
    It would be just like if john gotti had kept business notes when he ran the mafia,, and OH,, I actually probably think he did, since he to was convicted of criminal activity.

  320. A bit naive about prison rules and such, but how is it someone like Jeffs is allowed to “run” the flds people from within prison walls? Are visits and such videotaped like the famous confession and prophet resignation? Is it public record who visits him in jail and are conversations recorded?

  321. Im not sure that Jeffs is in a prison, but a jail awaiting trial in Arizona. Different rules in county jail than state prison. Visitors are more regular in county.

  322. Anonymous 3:27, his time with his attorney is privileged and so are his notes to his attorney. Also, he’s given his followers plenty of instructions from his jail cell — they just weren’t to do anything illegal.

  323. The NatGeo special about Bountiful is on again tonight. 6:00 my time, you have to check for your time.

  324. If you watch it, it might be a good idea to have a Kleenex handy when Mary Mackert tells her story. And some nails to chew on.

    CatWhisp – If you’re out there. Try to catch what Zelpi or whatever her name is mixes up to go into labor.

    So far I’ve got apricot juice and India ink. There are two more components.

  325. Lost in Poligville

    http://peanutheadinpoligville.blogspot.com/2010/02/from-my-front-porch.html

  326. Re: Jail/Prison monitoring: The Seattle Times published some short transcripts today of phone conversations between cop killer Maurice Clemmons and his wife while Clemmons was imprisoned, in which he repeatedly expressed his intentions to assissinate police officers upon his release.

    He followed up on his threats, killing 4 officers while they sat in a coffee shop.

    These calls were recorded, but the question of why prison officials didn’t act on them is because they can’t possibly monitor the thousands of phone calls made by prisoners every day.

    I should post this on the Trib boards and see if 40andclueless goes on another one of his/her rants because Clemmons and his wife’s “privacy” was “invaded” now that his phone calls are now being made public.

  327. CatWhisp – If you’re out there. Try to catch what Zelpi or whatever her name is mixes up to go into labor.

    So far I’ve got apricot juice and India ink. There are two more components.

    ***************************************

    ewwwwwwwwwwww yuck, gross

  328. India ink bottles are usually larger, those bottles look like essential oils to me, it’s a big thing in Utah, several MLM are out there. Apriccot juice would give you the runs…

  329. TT, thanks for posting that url, that is going to be an interesting blog to follow!

  330. Proud Texan,
    Zelpha was using a skin care oil created by Heritage Products of Virginia Beach. Heritage Products was started by followers of Edgar Cayce. I recognize the container.
    Heritage makes skin care oil which is all natural, biodynamic or organic, and digestible. Some of them are scented, some unscented.
    These oils are available at Whole Foods Market.
    Zelpha was attempted to induce labor by administration of laxatives, a non standard practice. I am emailing you.

  331. Was it India ink ? Apricots and oil I recognized.
    I thought the brown bottle was cascara, not India ink, which comes in a brown container which looks like that. Cascara is a laxative.

  332. thanks for the email cat, that’s just plain gross.

  333. I use that oil for certain massages and it is very good for that purpose.

    I’ve never injested it. I can’t think of any reason to.

    Sadie, that blog does look promising. Good sense of humor.

  334. I wouldn’t want to ingest it either.
    This cocktail would definitely induce a severe case of the runs.
    The combination of cascara, apricots, and
    a large volume of oil would make the average person
    very uncomfortable.
    The cascara would be sufficient
    to be successful in the average person to induce a bowel movement.
    I don’t understand why they would resort to this primitive method of induction when there are much more effective medical methods.

  335. Actually, when I was pregnant with my first child, I was 4wks overdo, and decided to drink a bottle of castoria,, trying to make myself go into labor…..
    NO, it didnt make me go into labor, but I crapped for two days straight!

  336. Correct, DD1, it often does not work, and just makes you feel very uncomfortable with cramps and diarrhea.
    That’s why I say call a doctor and forget the folk cures and remedies.

  337. well i was stupid at the age of 20, lol a friend told me about,, never told me, i could get diarreha… I knew better with the second child, lol

  338. Home remedies – If you cant get pregnant, edjumacated, give birth and get medical treatment at home, you havent lived!

  339. Walton,

    I don’t remember editing anything you posted. I do know that you are not a troll, and you are always welcome at my blog.

    I hope I didn’t do something to offend you.

  340. TBM,
    thanks for your recent postings, and happy valentine’s day

  341. No, Blues you didn’t offend me. And thanks.

  342. BTW Ive done my share of all those home remedies and experiences, no, actually, more than my share, but I generally keep the home schooling to homework (hey I thought you were supposed to do this in class) and the home remedies are for minor ailments. Yes its ok to have a child at home, just be careful when aunt soozie begins practicing medicine on you.

    Doesnt everybody have an aunt soozie, mine is named Mafalda and she knows herbal remedies better than most Doctors know a pharmacy. But we love her.

  343. Hey don’t be laughin’ at Aunt Mafalda. I took up an interest in native herbs, herbal remedies from back in the 60s. My 3 children grew up without seeing a doctor they must have had good genes which is a good thing since I hadn’t any money and they didn’t break any bones climbing trees. I still have intense curiosity about the world I live in and do have the college credits in earth sciences including botany and zoology. Now I’m old and guess what I can take it with me.

  344. watch out for herbal medication toxicity and herbal / drug interactions. if you want to use herbals intelligently, some good books to read are:
    Encyclopedia of Natural Medicine, Revised Second Edition by Michael Murray and Joseph Pizzorno
    The Clinician’s Handbook of Natural Medicine by Joseph E. Pizzorno Jr. ND, Michael T. Murray ND, and Herb Joiner-Bey ND

  345. “I don’t understand why they would resort to this primitive method of induction when there are much more effective medical methods.”

    Honestly, it seems that they want women to suffer. They speak of child bearing as a “sacrifice” the woman does for all those spirit babies who need salvation.

  346. The aunt Mafalda in my family certainly has been quick to use standard medicine when faced with life threatening medical conditions. But she wants me to get off of cholesterol and BP meds and take herbs instead, even though my sister died of an aneurism at 45 and my father had his first stroke at 62. I have concerns about a lifetime of taking statins, myself, but I’d really like to HAVE that lifetime to take them in. Ya know?

  347. She was right about the Vitamin D, though.

  348. Actually I think that traditional medicine is rediscovering traditional remedies. My mother recently had surgery on the skin above her eyes, the doctor recommended arnica montana to help with bruising.

  349. Everyone should consider taking 2000 IU of vitamin D per day – unless medically contraindicated – it lowers the risk of cancer, heart disease, and many other conditions.
    If you take statins, take coenzyme Q10 with it – this prevents some of the complications of statin medications.

  350. many physicians use herbals – but use them intelligently and monitor their use.

  351. Everyone should consider taking 2000 IU of vitamin D per day

    Yeah, I recently saw something by Andrew Weil about vitamin D.

  352. He is quoting literature which has been published for quite some time.
    I suggest you take the Vitamin D at that dose unless your doctor tells you otherwise.
    http://www.healthcastle.com/vitamin-d-cancer2.shtml

  353. I DO take CoQ10, thanks CW.

    The problem with herbals IMHO is the hippie dippie non scientific New Age thinking. Don’t take herbal advice from anyone who also recommends that you sleep with a crystal in a bag around your neck. I’m just saying….

    My doctor’s office claims that everyone they have tested so far has come up under the minimum on Vitamin D. I was taking Vitamin D already and I am outside one to two hours a day three fourths of the year, but it was still not enough. I am now on a once a week mega dose of D3 and get occasional blood tests to make sure I don’t overdose. Because of my food allergies, I can’t eat any of the processed foods that have Vitamin D added to them.

  354. I’m flat tickled. Much of the stuff in books is Euro traditional type or maybe Asian – but still not “local”. My research generally took me around the US southwest and Mexico sphere. Even on archaeology field work I’d be around asking grannies or little boys how local plants (usually) are/were used. And write up the plant assays for the dig.

    Simple stuff. Have you seen those wild gourds, but the shells are too thin to be very useful? Sometimes called coyote melon, they taste so bad that mothers would smear some of that on their breasts, nipples, to wean a child, maybe because a new baby is coming.

  355. When I was a tot cod liver oil was still given to us liddlekids in a spoon.

  356. Tom Sawyer’s Aunt Polly gave him cod liver oil too, didn’t she?

  357. Yes, I took that when I was a kid also. I think that Tom Sawyer got castor oil, which is a laxative.

  358. Granny,
    Use the reference texts which I cited above to check on toxicity of any herbal products you use.

  359. I think my mom told me the cod liver oil was for my “eyes and skin” which sounds more like the Vit E than D.

  360. Indeed Physicians are coming around, and thats a good thing. But Aunt Mafalda pushed the envelope – dang near practiced medicine without a license.

  361. Never forget the day my mother left me “on my honor” with two little cups to take care of my constipation problem. One had orange juice and the other was CASTOR OIL. When I even tried to swallow that nasty stuff I would gag, so I came up with a solution – I was wearing those jeans with plaid flannel lining rolled up cuffs. I poured the CASTOR OIL into the cuffs carefully and downed the OJ. Of course those jeans were the softest ever after that……I didnt confess until many many years later and what a laugh we had.

  362. I remember how stiff levis used to be back in the mmmm goodoldays. The very thought of using castor oil as fabric softener cracks me flat up! hahahahaha!

  363. Glad you enjoyed that GT : )

  364. GT, the “confession” occured during one of those adult gatherings around the table while taking the kids to go visit the grandparents and once they had gone out to play, we sat and talked. And it was really neat to be able to “fess up” about things that we did as kids that our parents never knew. They took it really well and we all laughed. I wasnt ready to tell about sneaking out on the roof and smoking though. Uh huh….didnt want to get left out of the will….

  365. castor bean plants ugghhhh what is that poison made from it that’s aerosolized … yeeeeaaahhhh RICIN.

    I grew up with that all around in FL. Then one day I was sitting down by a Texas hill country river and started hearing popping. I wasn’t being shot at.

    It was familiar but I couldn’t quite place that sound. OH YEAH, then I saw the big leaves. That plant has a really interesting seed delivery system, the ripe hulls dry up and SHOOT the seeds with a LOUD POPPING sound.

  366. New levis. Funny. When you bought them you needed the size you could only barely get into and zip up, I don’t know if that was all filler or what, but they didn’t soften until they were worn and washed a lot – and fit better.

    Levis went through stages. Once they soften up any at all you cooked up medium heavy starch, yes cooked. Or bought blue liquid stuff in plastic jug, later times. Well then you stuffed metal stretchers inside the legs for creases, and hung the sails for your sailboat ??? out on the line to dry, er, stiffen up real good again. Isn’t that nuts?

    Well the next stage is wearing holes in the knees or the butt. By then they were so comfy and feeling so good you could almost sleep in them. Not quite. Eventually they were so ratty you cut them off somewhere above the knees. Voila, cutoffs.

    No way I’m passing these good jeans down to my sister, I broke ’em in and they’re MINE!

  367. GT, you are speaking my language! LOL Some things are just NOT handed down. And the starch? Oh gosh how I recall the ordeal of starching things, and the endless ironing. Now that I am old and have my priorities straight, I only iron what absolutely HAS to be ironed and breathe sighns of relief that I am no longer a slave to “Monday morning ironing day” God bless the person who invented permanent press.

  368. Never heard that about the castor old plants – would love to find some of that and introduce the seed delivery system to my grandchildren. Imagine hearing those plants expelling their gas – I mean seeds!!

  369. I can’t help it I still like good potty humor. Back when Kinky Friedman recorded with the Texas Jewboys, well Kinky told me he didn’t do it, it was those guys, up at Ft Worth, recorded The Fart Song. Bad boys, bad boys.

  370. Anonymous:
    There is a woodland plant called ‘ Jewelweed) ( hypericum off.). also called ‘Touch me not’. when the seedpods are ripe and you touch them, about a 1000 pop out. That’s why the plant is called ‘ Touch me not’.
    It is a cousin to the ‘Impatients’ we plant on gardens for decoration.
    They both have a glassy stem. It’s the juice from that stem that is the best antidote to poison ivy. A tincture made from it, by immersing the stems in cider vinegar is good to have on hand. I used to supply a guy from the road commission with it for years. Jewelweed likes to grow close to poison ivy in wet soil. Glassy stems and pretty orange flowers.

  371. Oh down where I live the Cedars Pop a couple of times a year,, and if your on the highway, it looks like its raining, and if your allergic to cedar as my husandand I are, it sucks!

  372. C-M, that is so interesting about Jewelweed being an antidote for poison ivy. My grandson is so allergic and he lives on a farm and is continually getting a bad case. Wonder if we could rig that up and apply?

  373. Alternative Treatment for poison ivy – wash the skin with Fels – Naptha bar soap, rinse with vinegar, repeat.

  374. Catwhisperer, thanks so much!

  375. I also use spray benedryl for poison ivy. A combination of that and the washing that CW is talking about works pretty well for me and I’m very sensitive.

  376. It is important to apply the naptha soap and vinegar immediately after exposure.

  377. Ah, well, what I’m talking about is a soap that gets the secretions off of your body to keep it from spreading. After it’s too late and you have it for sure. I never know that I have it until I have the rash. I’m a gardener and it can hide from you, or get transfered onto cat/dog, garden hose, etc.

    Boy, we have gotten off topic!

  378. Topic? There’s a topic? I was swimming around in a river one summer keeping me and ol’ Ted the Golden retriever cool and I knew there was poison ivy or oak up the steep bank but oh well I didn’t go there.

    Don’t do that. Apparently the oil floats atop the water. It doesn’t seem to have bothered Ted.

  379. Yeah, Ted had hair to protect him. I did something very similar when I was a kid skinny dipping. Hard to lie to mom when the evidence is all over your body.

  380. GT, poison ivy oil will also float in the air, like when you are cutting it off fences, etc. My daughter is so allergic that once when I was removing it from our fence she was sitting on our deck and that night she was at the emergency room because it had gotten in her throat, nose, ears and eyes, not to mention all over her skin. What a mess, poor baby had to be hospitalized for it.

  381. Has anyone seen this film on polygyny in Afghanistan ?
    It came out about 5 yrs ago – I highly recommend it.
    http://www.movieweb.com/movie/FIjfemjkfOU3mk/synopsis

  382. Yes, that’s why you don’t burn the poison ivy plant.

  383. Absolutely, CM. My mother had almost no sensitivity to it at all. She burned some brush including poison ivy and had to be hospitalized because she inhaled it. After that, she was very sensitive to it in any form.

  384. I have not seen it, CW, but it is available through Netflix and I have added it to my queue. I’ll probably have to watch it when my husband is other wise occupied, cause he doesn’t tolerate my ‘depressing, brainy, foreign’ stuff well.

  385. Walton,

    I think I just figured out why you got concerned – my comment about Coram being my blog was in reply to Hugh, not to your posts, although it appeared right after one of your posts due to the way my blog shows the comments as threads.

    My apologies. It was not my intent that the comment be construed as being directed at you – it was not.

  386. I saw the piece called “Behind the Blue Veil” in afghanistan, Horrible Horrible, they executed women on a football field, for no reason.

  387. tBM

    I reviewed Hughs site, and even from the very beginning, his very first post addresses his fight with his Church and his mulling legal action against them.

    (And please – if he feels he must sue his Church or attend Membership Arbitration – it’s time to go somewhere else, they arent giving him what he is looking for IMHO – like that hard to get polygamy card)

    “I wanted to avoid lawsuits so I sought a legal means to apply pressure outside church channels, and proceeded to apply it.”

    http://hughmcbryde.blogspot.com/2006/12/non-existent-church-discipline.html

    And then in the very next page of threads he chats up about how he was banned from a Christian blog and how there could be legal issues there as well.

    Yes – at a “Christian Blog” (well – he must have really lit one up over there)

    “If there are legal concerns over the content, I can assure you what’s being said right now at the FFF (Christian Blog) is potentially more dangerous to those involved than anything I said.”

    http://hughmcbryde.blogspot.com/2008/01/more-popular-in-death-than-in-life-in.html

    Both web pages have been saved to prevent his redaction actions, as they show his obsession with legal remedies for the most ridiculous of issues. And I do pity the person who walks his dog or waters his plants. And this was just within the first 20 or so threads out of some 1400 or so, the other threads riddled with legal bullying tripe as well.

    So in other words, he is a walking, talking, frivolous mouth off. I think any Judge would get a kick out of him musing about suing his Church, and then his eventual excommunication some 4 years later.

    (What took them so long, some may ask? Maybe because he kept changing Churches till one got him figured out)

  388. I found this on the childbrides.org site.
    http://www.childbrides.org/GregHooleOpEdPieceforTribune.pdf
    Vvverrry interesting.

  389. Betty, my MD wanted me to take a statin to lower my cholesterol and I said NO WAY because I had liver problems as a child. Statins are hell on your liver if you ever had liver disease. They can also be a problem even if you don’t have a history of liver disease.

    A friend of mine suggested Red Yeast Rice 600 mg capsules. He said it worked great for him. The only problem is that you have to take 6 or 8 of these horse capsules every day for them to be effective.

    I did that for about 2 weeks and stopped because I can’t stand to take pills and had trouble taking 6-8 every day.

    I started walking 3 miles – briskly walking, not strolling – every day and after 6 months my cholesterol went down 18 points.

    Now, it is just at a borderline concern level and the doctors leave me alone about it.

    But, it you can tolerate taking a lot of pills each day, try the Red Yeast Rice 600mg.

  390. I also used to give my German Shepherd cod liver oil mixed in his food. It really made his coat shine!

  391. Anonymous – Red Rice Yeast is a statin.
    It is the parent compound to simvastatin.
    If you take red rice yeast, it will have the same effect on your liver that a statin (simvastatin) would.
    You need to be monitored in terms of your liver function if you are on red rice yeast just the same as you would if you were on a prescription statin drug.

  392. that’s a great op ed piece that hoole did. too bad the tribune was too stuck in its FLDS propoganda to post it.

  393. Speaking of the Tribune…

    http://www.sltrib.com/News/ci_14406293

    Headline and sub-head:

    After five years, Shurtleff says sides farther apart in polygamous property saga

    Attorney General says he’s tired of being a ‘patsy’ in dispute.

    Off to read it…maybe it is from that interview promised to be published “shortly”.

    That was more than a few days ago.

  394. That article is a must read.

    Apparently Shurtleff has figured out that the FLDS has used him with no intention of negotiating a settlement in good faith.

    Gee…ya think?

    Took him long enough to see it.

    Gotta wonder if maybe he’s read some things in the past month or so that leave no doubt about the intentions of the FLDS under the leadership of Warren Jeffs that pertain to his absolute refusal to compromise.

  395. Shurtleff cant match two socks on Friday. He reminds me of Dinosso on NCIS, always getting head slapped.

    Add Homer

    DOH!

  396. GEE – Shurtleff actually admitted that he was an FLDS PATSY!?!?!?

    TOO RICH!!!

    You cant make this shit up

  397. anyone see this ?
    This is the second time in one year I have read about a Muslim woman killing her husband when she learned about his polygamy.
    http://islamwatch2010.wordpress.com/2010/02/16/bangladesh-woman-castrates-and-kills-husband-for-abuse-and-polygamy/

  398. WHAT?

    She skipped out on her Keepin Sweet class!?

  399. That was a pretty knarly castration. She gave him the full Bobbit treatment, and more!

  400. Muslim women living in polygamy have a long history of activism against the practice….
    This was taking it a bit too far …

  401. Although I can understand the feeling.

  402. maybe rangers nick and brooks need to go and teach shurtleff a few lessons.

  403. Gee whiz. How long did it take Shurtleff to realize that he was being played and used by Willie and the gang, like everyone else was telling him (including his own staff)?

    Sharp as a marble, he is.

  404. And why does Shurtleff think that removing Wisan will matter? Do you really think it’s a personality issue? Come on…they are going to do what their leadership says no matter the personality of the state appointed fudiciary! The WAR was declared by JEFFS in 2002!

  405. And why does Shurtleff think that removing Wisan will matter? Do you really think it’s a personality issue? Come on…they are going to do what their leadership says no matter the personality of the state appointed fudiciary! The WAR was declared by JEFFS in 2002!

    Well – I agree with what you said and Winston Blackmore confirms it – but personalities can make a difference.

    Besides it’s impossible to negotiate with folks when they think God tells them they’re right.

  406. i totally agree betty, wisan isn’t the problem, there is going to be a “problem” with whomever is assigned the task of overseeing the trust. the flds think they are bleeding the beast, but in reality they are only bleeding their members.

  407. Doesn’t matter, PT.

    If any of the members are bleeding it is because they are half-hearted and Warren’s god is cutting them from the herd.

  408. To nominate Bruce Wisan as the ‘fall guy’ in the UEPTrust is to give the defiant and obstructive FLDS Church the victory that their ‘Holy War’ is effective and ‘Answer Them Nothing’, which has caused endless problems for Mr. Wisan and any prospective replacement, a validated tactic in combating the rightful findings and lawful Court directed control of the UEPTrust. The FLDS Church charade has gone on for long enough but making Bruce Wisan the ‘fall guy’ just aids the outlaw elements of the FLDS leadership.

  409. “Besides it’s impossible to negotiate with folks when they think God tells them they’re right.

    Absolutely. I think it’s clear that the FLDS leaders are not interested in compromise of any kind – and they aren’t really interested in the well being of the rank and file either. Their proposal amounts to “give us back complete control legal or not or go to hell”.

  410. Fortunately, Texas has gotten two convictions and a plea on the first cases presented – The Justices cant pretend the FLDS are just cute LDS Amish types any longer.

    Those days are gone. The world community has been educated as to the truth.

  411. It escapes me why an accountant needs a personality anyway. Pay your $100 a month and taxes or get the heck out. Does Chase Bank have a personality? Do you think they wouldn’t throw me out of “my” house if I didn’t pay? Or that the county wouldn’t seize my house if I never paid taxes? Stupid. Just more stupid.

  412. “…just cute LDS Amish types…”

    But..but..fresh baked bread, homegrown veggies, sweet singing, higher law and all that jazz.

  413. There just has to be some individuals’ political concerns going on here – lest we forget the ’53 raid and Gov. Pyle’s ignominious fate. It may not work this time (given WSJ’s beyond-the-pale leadership usurpation and criminal behavior), but I’m detecting a lot of eggshells surrounding this whole mess. Think political and business fallout and careers after all’s said and done. I’m just saying….

  414. Canned peaches.

  415. E. Texas, yeah, I can see that, but what do the FLDS have over Utah? That’s the part I don’t get. If you spread the word of what’s REALLY going on, who would be offended if you stop it? Is the problem that the FLDS has a better PR team? Or does it have to do with DOD contracts?

  416. E Texan

    Agreed – hence the 50 year legal stand down. But Warren really made it hit the fan.

    Do ya remember aout 7-8 years ago with the first big exings, there was fear of a war getting started, and police were stationed at each end of the highways leading from the Cities?

    IT got out of hand and the law looked impotent (hmmm).

    Shurtleffs attempt to go with the FLDS was pretty sad, he saw that as the only way a “negotiation” would work, regardless that it had unconstitutional elements, and he did so to further his own career goals.

    He showed that he was willing to throw the people, women and children, back to the wolves regardless of the consequences. He wishes it would all just go away.

  417. No, Betty, they certainly don’t have a “better PR team” – it’s actually embarrassing TTTT! What they hold is the “religious persecution” trump (or so they think) card which (I hope) won’t work this time, but ya never know with the American public and politicians.

    And:

    Lest I come off sounding like a conspiracy nut, I have my theories wrt the “gummint” and their roles in all of this. I just cannot, repeat cannot, get into that. Of course li’l ol’ me can’t prove a gd thing! Follow the money (it’s not at all easy).

    sorry ’bout all the parens (…) that seems to be the way my brain works 🙂
    ~~~~~~~~~

    Ahhh…. there’s that song again:
    Oh no I’ve said too much, I haven’t said enough…
    That’s me in the corner, that’s me in the spotlight losin’ my religion. 😉

  418. ET

    I think this time the FLDS really bought the farm. Well, it may end up resulting that they have to sell the farm too, but regardless of all the protections they have enjoyed from various and sundry political legal and social programs, the Texas Zipper Fiasco really peeled the onion on them.

    So now, who wants to support these Tony Alamo types? It doesnt look good on the resume, the pendulum has swung the other way now!

  419. Yeah, I was thinking that when it all comes down to it, somehow it’s about money. Which is an excellent reason to keep on the UEP.

  420. Anonymous – Red Rice Yeast is a statin.

    catwhisperer thank you SO much for the warning. I had no idea.

    I just read the label and it does say “Avoid this product if you have liver disease”.

    Dummy me never read the label before. I thought just because it was OTC it was safe. The bottle just went into the trash!

  421. You may be right about the pendulum, Stamp. If we can stop the underage crap (none of this would have happened but for that), as well as all the stuff around welfare, etc., ’twill be a goooood thing.
    But I’ll say this: you’ll never completely end the practice of polygamy and all the beliefs that go along with it. You’d have to get rid of the entire LDS church too. But as long as WSJ is in charge of the FLDS, they will continue to suffer. I can’t begin to predict what will happen after he’s out of the picture. He just flat out went too far! Who knows how strange things could continue to evolve.
    It sure ain’t like it used to be… before you ever even heard of all this. And please… don’t hit me up on that score. I KNOW it wasn’t okay before either!

  422. ET

    True that. I never expected polygamy to end, for instance, there may well ba a lot of abuses right next door to the FLDS in the CP group as well, but in comparison they dont look as bad.

    The defacto “ask nothing say nothing” deal they had enjoyed with politicians and LE really ended up biting them big, and we have Warren to thank for it.

    Well, the FLDS probably arent “Thanking” him when they fork over chunks of change for the attorneys, but hopefully there will be meaningful progress in the prosecution of molesters and the relative freedom of a people held hostage by this madman.

  423. i think the underage marriages is what became the downfall of the group.

  424. oh and E Texas, keep right on talking to yerself, just make sure you keep it sweet!!!

  425. PT: LOL, 😀 No can do on the “keep it sweet” part. I ain’t been sweet for a looooong time now!

  426. E. Texas, yeah, I can see that, but what do the FLDS have over Utah?
    ……………….

    Maybe because, the state of Utah is basically a theocracy, and deep underground in the LDS the ban on polygamy really only means a temporary ban just to keep the Feds off their backs.

  427. Still doesn’t make sense. I guess that’s the problem, I have trouble accepting that some things just DON’T make sense.

    Does believing in polygamy make child abuse OK? How about embezzlement? Tax evasion? Does it make it OK for a police officer to not enforce the law, or to break the law? Does it make it OK for your lawyer to tell you to back date documents when you transfer assets? I could go on….

  428. They’ve really exposed their hineys.

    That’s a good thing. Ain’t it, E Texas!

  429. Weatherbug sez sunshine today and tomorrow!

  430. Betty,
    You mentioned something about FLDS and DoD contracts at 9:49 am.
    Could you elaborate further ?

  431. “…deep underground in the LDS the ban on polygamy really only means a temporary ban…”

    That’s one “bingo” for you Anon E Mouse.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Anonymous at 11:43 AM :
    No, polygamy doesn’t make any of those things okay and I didn’t intend to imply that. You’re right, it just don’t make sense. The only advice I can give is to think of what *anyone* does when they’re backed into a corner. They’ve been backing into a deeper and deeper corner for many years now.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Yep, Attila…. bare butts are a good thing… butt ugly.

  432. CW,

    This is just a theory, based on articles I read maybe a year ago. I have no proof. There is at least one machining and manufacturing company owned by the FLDS and running that company is one reason that Nielson is so high up in the Priesthood. I have read that they make specialty parts for DOD and that there is quite a bit of money involved and the projects the parts are for are key to US national security. Lots of the politicians in Utah and Arizona are aware of this.

    My theory is that the soft pedaling of the FLDS is not about religious rights or the LDS at all; that is a cover. That anyone with power is using the grass roots sympathy for fundamentalist mormonism in general to help them out, but in fact that’s not the point. The soft pedaling is about MONEY and POLITICS.

  433. But then, maybe I’ve lived in Virginia too long and am cynical.

    A quote from the Westminister show last night, by Harry Truman:
    “If you want a true friend in Washington, get a dog.”

  434. Many of FLDS companies have been put under forgein corporations, which makes them harder to find

  435. Or in Holding Companies with bunches of other companies

  436. Betty gets a “bingo.”
    Proof! That’s the issue and if the government doesn’t want you to get it, you won’t.

    Western Precision aka NewEra is just one pie.

  437. I think I’m sitting in the same cynical camp as you, Betty.

  438. Betty, the type of Federal contract in place at New Era Manufacturing is a small company policy that the DOD pursues trying to share the wealth of Federal expenditures of our tax dollars, to aid smaller firms, minority contractors or female owned businesses. The public exposure of the ownership to the fundamentalist FLDS Church relationship and their relocation out of Utah and into Nevada, likely puts future DOD contracts in jeopardy. There are under 100 employees at New Era so there just isn’t a big money nor political consequence at play on any future governmental contracts.

  439. I thought I heard the echo of a Bingo called from here. And I see not one Bingo but two.

  440. So it appears that they are not big players with DoD …. well that’s good.

  441. Well if you consider 13 million dollars not huge, Iguess not.

  442. I think that is small change for DoD

  443. Does anyone know what is meant when Warren talks of people “teaching Musserism?”

  444. Would love to see a wider context for “teaching Musserism.”

  445. The only published DOD contract with NewEra Manufacturing was valued at $1.2Million for aircraft wheel and brake components. The $13.0 Million is total sales for the firm annualized.

  446. A man came to Warren a few days after Rulon died and said that “some folks” were concerned that Warren was “teaching Musserism”.

  447. $13 million a year sales is nothing to sneeze at in a rural county.

  448. Another question for you geneology buffs: in Fall of 2002, Melissa Jeffs Wayman, married to Daniel Leroy Wayman would she have been a minor at that time?

  449. I don’t think that would pay off their lawyer rentals.

  450. A light bulb just went off as to why some teen age boys get kicked out of their homes. If you are middle aged and have a 16 year old son and a 15 year old wife living in the same house and you are working and/or busy with other wives….you could have yourself a problem what I would call the Guinevere-Lancelot problem. Solution: send Lancelot on a quest.

  451. Melissa married Daniel on 1/17/1999 and she was 19 at the time.

  452. betty did you post a genealogy question before the melissa/daniel one?

    bingo on the reason for kicking out teenaged sons.

  453. Thanks! No, I was doing some reading and it occurred to me.

  454. i’ve been thinking about allan keate’s testimony. he said he had 21 children to support ages 6 mo. to 16 years. i only come up with 17, so he’s got 4 wives who have had children since the rescue in april 2008.

  455. 13 million may mean alot for a county, but it means nothing to the government.
    That firm could easily be replaced in terms of a company who could offer the same deal to the government.

  456. PT is that 5 unidentified young children?

  457. attila, it’s either 4 or 5. he’s got a daughter who would have turned 17 about a week before his testimony and he might not realize she’s 17 and not 16. he’s got 5 wives who could have kids although nora was born in 1968. her last child i know of was born in 2006. he’s also got merilyn, joanne, lenora and rosanna.

  458. This is just a theory, based on articles I read maybe a year ago. I have no proof. There is at least one machining and manufacturing company owned by the FLDS and running that company is one reason that Nielson is so high up in the Priesthood. I have read that they make specialty parts for DOD and that there is quite a bit of money involved and the projects the parts are for are key to US national security. Lots of the politicians in Utah and Arizona are aware of this.
    ……………………

    That could certainly be true, but hundreds of companies make parts for the DoD, I can’t believe that the Feds are SO dependent on parts from one relatively small company that they would turn a blind eye to criminal activity.

    But you know what they say . . . “follow the money”

  459. Yeah, it could be as simple as campaign contributions.

  460. E.Texas,

    The “teaching Musserism” reference was made on September 24, 2002 regarding blood atonement.

  461. So is Musser for it or agin’ it?

  462. Maybe we should write the DoD as a group and inform them that it is shocking to us that they contract with a group responsible for human rights abuses. Government contracts go to the highest bidder.
    They can always contract with some other group which does not engage in human rights abuses and discrimination against women.

  463. You know that is a good idea.

  464. if enough of us write in, maybe something will happen.

  465. Thanks TT… found it.
    However, I never associated “Musserism” with blood atonement. Yeah, I’m sure Musser was for it as much as the rest of the priesthood council back then. But what WSJ is saying in that record is a red herring IMO. Perhaps arguable, but true Mormon blood atonement is NOT about “killing off the wicked” as he says there.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Betty said:
    “A man came to Warren a few days after Rulon died and said that “some folks” were concerned that Warren was ‘teaching Musserism’.”
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    That makes more sense if it’s Warren teaching Musserism versus Warren concerned about someone else teaching it.

    So, the way I understand it, in a nutshell, the crux of so-called Musserism is extreme secrecy, total conformity and loss of individuality. (sound familiar?)

    Guy Musser led the most secretive lifestyle of any man bar none in The Work… before the one-man rule. The demands on his family were astounding compared to anyone else.

    For instance, when he received a new wife she was not allowed to bring anything but the (wedding) dress she was wearing – no personal effects whatsoever. She was also stripped of her birth name and given a different first name – adopt an entirely new identity and persona. She completely disappeared from sight – absolutely no contact with her parental family or even anyone else in the Group outside his own family. Hearsay: she couldn’t go outdoors except after dark.

    It is taught when a woman leaves her parents and enters into “the new and everlasting covenant” it’s like being reborn: she must give up everything to do with her childhood, and begin the task of becoming one with her husband. Musser took it to the max.

    There were other men who considered him an example of perfection and tried to run their families in a similar manner (including my husband), but no one else that I knew of pulled it off as rigorously as he did.

    ‘Nuff said.

  466. Thanks. That makes sense. And I think “some folks” were right.

  467. I agree FLDS Texas.

  468. ET thank you for sharing that. I had no idea the brainwashing went that deep.

  469. E.Texas,

    That is fascinating information about Guy Musser and explains to me why his history has been somewhat elusive for me to absorb.

    There are volumes of written information about his father, Joseph White Musser, but not so about Guy.

    “Hearsay: she couldn’t go outdoors except after dark.”

    Interestingly, Warren’s dictations are sprinkled with references to prohibiting his wives from being outside after dark even on the “Jeffs’ block” in Short Creek as well as all women and children at YFZ — a reverse of what you heard about Guy Musser’s wives, but both are measures of extreme control.

    In 2002, Warren was dodging a subpoena and if the consequences weren’t so sad, the measures he went through and put his family through would be comedic.

  470. I highly recommend those of you who haven’t to check out this excellent post by Blues.

  471. Brooke has two installments of the Shurtleff interview posted on her blog.

    Interesting reads.

  472. E. Texas,
    If you are still reading, this is in response to a comment you made on TBMs blog:

    “The ONLY way a woman can do it successfully is to take the children and disappear. I did.”

    It is difficult for anyone to make changes in their long established life patterns. But you did, and that took courage. If you ever want to share more about how you did this, I really want to hear. I am not asking about specifics, if they are private, but about how you faced the aloneness and went forward. I know that the 2nd and 3rd steps are often harder than the first step.

    As others have said, congratulations.

  473. Regarding the Shurtleff interview:

    Reading between the lines it’s apparent that he’s greatly at odds with his counterpart in Arizona.

    In my mind Shurtleff is a cheap political hack who has no real interest in protecting the public’s interests. He’s only concerned about advancing Mark Shurtleff’s interests.

  474. Ron said:”In my mind Shurtleff is a cheap political hack who has no real interest in protecting the public’s interests. He’s only concerned about advancing Mark Shurtleff’s interests.”

    That thought is in a lot of peoples minds. I read the interview two and three times wanting to find something that would make sense out all this.
    I found nothing. All I found was excuses coming from a man who did not has not done his job.
    There is another article in the Deseret News. Interesting info imo and quite telling.

  475. Here is the link: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700009926/Utah-Supreme-Court-to-weigh-in-on-FLDS-trust-issues.html

  476. One of the things that I’ve read into the Shurtleff interview combined with some of what is in the dictations is a person who wanted to put band-aids on a gushing wound and when caught is trying to CYA.

    Now that it is so obvious that Warren Jeffs has no intention (and never has had) of being reasonable, Shurtleff is caught looking like a fool, or “patsy” if you will.

    With attention now being paid to the mess in Short Creek outside of Utah, he (and others) may be feeling a wee bit embarassed about their impotence.

    I’m glad he gave the interview, though, because it does reveal how far apart he and the Arizona AG are. It also affirms that when it comes down to it, Warren Jeffs is still the one calling the shots when it comes to anything regarding his flock and the law.

    “Answer them nothing” is still in effect when it comes to the UEP Trust negotiations.

    Bad faith in so many ways.

  477. Whoa! yall are just getting this??? I said in May last year Shurtleff was just promoting his political career. He has been every uneffective not only with the flds situation but everything he has done.

  478. Well, I guess the voters of Utah might be getting it – his bid for the senate went up in a big ball of flames.

  479. He had little choice in that issue, the guy was involved with someone indicted with a ponzi scheme. Had he continued, all that would of been made public.

  480. what time does the supreme court hearing start?

  481. 9 minutes from now. I think it starts at 9:30 in UT. It is 11:21 EST now.

  482. Maybe we should write the DoD as a group and inform them that it is shocking to us that they contract with a group responsible for human rights abuses
    …………………….

    It might make more impact to point out that the FLDS hates our government and the lengths they will go through to avoid cooperating with our legal system.

    Boeing employees who work on government projects have to pass a background check.

  483. If you are middle aged and have a 16 year old son and a 15 year old wife living in the same house and you are working and/or busy with other wives….you could have yourself a problem

    ………………………….

    That’s a plotline in “Big Love,” although the wife in question is not a teenager.

    Also, how about all these reassigned families? If boys and girls are not even supposed to associate with each other, how do teenage stepbrothers and sisters even live in the same house together? Do they eat at different times or what?

  484. “If you are middle aged and have a 16 year old son and a 15 year old wife living in the same house and you are working and/or busy with other wives….you could have yourself a problem”

    That is exactly why the incidence of incest is so high in their communities.

  485. October 12, 2002…Warren Jeffs.

    “I smile whenever women cry.”

  486. biting my online virtual tongue

  487. What a dumbass! And so far I’ve been careful how I handled this jerk, because I was sure he just needed mental health intervention. What a dumbass!!!

  488. Betty wrote: October 12, 2002…Warren Jeffs.

    “I smile whenever women cry.”

    TexasMom says” “I smile when I think of Warren Jeffs in prison with only his rosy-palm for ‘time & eternity’ “

  489. I just read the second installment of Shurtleff’s interview with Brooke. He believes that the FLDS attempts to come to an agreement have been “sincere,” but somebody behind the scenes keeps torpedoeing any progress.

    Gosh, who could THAT be?

  490. Texas Mom…

    Looks like it’s you and me again, tonight, Rosie…

  491. Good article TexasBlueman, especially the part where Merril didn’t show up in court today.. did his lawyer show up?

  492. his attorney sent a pinch hitter to sub for her.

  493. I’m guessing they thought the judgement would be granted. Maybe they think it won’t be possible to get the money out of him.

  494. So Merrill thinks his assets and the trail is hidden well enough?

  495. He thinks he’s descended from the line of Judah, so anything is possible, I guess.

  496. tee-hee–that’s soooo funny about merrill!!!

  497. He thinks he’s descended from the line of Judah, so anything is possible, I guess.

    Where did he get that grandiose delusion ?

  498. So is Merrill going to play dead now?

  499. he wishes!!

  500. CW, Joseph Smith? Not sure.

  501. Winston Blackmore NOT granted leave to intervene in trial on Constitutionality of Polygamy – Good for Canada

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/blackmore-not-granted-leave-to-intervene-in-polygamy-trial/article1473417/?utm_source=feedburnerutm_medium=feedutm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheGlobeAndMail-National+%28The+Globe+and+Mail+-+National+News%29

    The central figure in a high-profile polygamy case has lost his bid to intervene in a constitutional reference to B.C. Supreme Court on whether the crime of polygamy is in conflict with Charter protections for freedom of religion.

    Winston Blackmore’s application was dismissed at a case-management conference Monday after the religious leader, who once had 25 wives, refused to agree to the ground rules for participating in the much anticipated court case.

    Mr. Blackmore has requested “full party” status, rather than the “interested parties” status awarded to the applicants by the court. He also asked for his costs to be funded, something not offered under the ground rules. A hearing to participate has now been set for Mr. Blackmore on March 26, at no cost to him, for a ruling on his requests.

    Mr. Blackmore has indicated he would introduce extensive evidence of persecution and discrimination against Mormons. Also, he wanted “full right” to challenge evidence and cross-examine witnesses that portray him and his congregation in a negative light.

    The provincial government sought a ruling on the constitutionality of the law after charges of polygamy were quashed on procedural grounds against Mr. Blackmore and James Oler, another religious polygamist group leader in southeastern B.C. The two men were members of a polygamist colony of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

    Counsel have been asked by the Chief Justice to block off Nov. 15, 2010, to the end of January 2010 for the trial.

  502. I understand that Nancy Mereska’s group was accepted for intervener status.
    This is good

  503. Judith said this on February 17, 2010 at 8:04 AM
    “E. Texas,
    If you are still reading, this is in response to a comment you made on TBMs blog:

    “The ONLY way a woman can do it successfully is to take the children and disappear. I did.”

    It is difficult for anyone to make changes in their long established life patterns. But you did, and that took courage. If you ever want to share more about how you did this, I really want to hear. I am not asking about specifics, if they are private, but about how you faced the aloneness and went forward. I know that the 2nd and 3rd steps are often harder than the first step.”
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Just catching up here…

    Judith, I wasn’t ignoring you… just not “computering” for long enough stretches.

    What you’re asking would require writing a book (which I may still do). But the basic components leading up to such an extreme response (leaving) were issues of trust, numerous betrayals, my own inability to let go of my individuality and subsume my innate questioning and logical nature, but most of all it was my escalating fears for the safety, survival, and growth of my children, the eldest of whom were rebelling against… (sigh… just can’t go there).

    Leaving required a fair amount of planning on my part – secretly talking off the record and confidentially with lawyers, judges, law enforcement, social workers about my options as a plural wife. That was hard enough, finally telling my story to, gasp!, outsiders!

    To my advantage (unlike so many FLDS women) was my experience/exposure – being employed in the outside world and the fact that I was educated in public schools and knew how to get along in the world – at least marginally. My children DID NOT HAVE SUCH AN ADVANTAGE, were totally unprepared to deal with the outside world (isolated/homeschooled for years) and I was not willing to let them flail and fail trying. I hadn’t really abandoned my beliefs – yet – I just knew that *I* brought them into this world, they were suffering for their lack of conformity within The Work, and I couldn’t think of ANY way to help them from the inside without risking my own salvation. *I* had to take responsibility, meaning away from priesthood rule and sanctions. So “getting out” was the only option I could see – salvation be damned. My children’s lives were more important.

    Your reference to “2nd and 3rd steps are often harder than the first step” couldn’t be more true. The escape alone was exactly what I feared and experienced with my children: in a word, traumatizing. I’m afraid that for now I’ll have to leave to your imagination the aftermath, the deprogramming, adjustments to (in many ways) an even harsher society than I jerked them from. All I can say, is it takes at least, AT LEAST, twenty years. And you may also imagine, anyone who actually does this has to accept somewhere down their rocky road that they will never be “normal” as defined by most of society.

    Sorry folks… that was a long one.

  504. to such an extreme response (leaving)

    I know it seemed like an extreme response, but I’ll bet that you’re already seeing it as the only rational alternative.

    I’m a closet Buddhist. One of the core teachings of Buddhism is a sense of groundlessness. Each of us must get comfortable that what we think is “under our feet” can go away at any time. Basically, if you’re not attached to the blanket under your feet, then no one can pull it out from under you.

  505. Ron… I like that! Thank you!

  506. E.Texas, I hope you can feel how much emotional and spiritual support so many of us have for you, here in the outside world. Any time you need help, you know who to ask. You’re on my hero list.

  507. E. Texas, I don’t know who you are but you’re my hero too. Want to know why?

    “So “getting out” was the only option I could see – salvation be damned. My children’s lives were more important.”

    That’s a true parent — putting his or her children above ANYTHING else in his or her life. I hope your devotion was rewarded by all your children making the adjustment and not returning to perpetuate the cycle of dysfunction. (I know it doesn’t always work out that way, in spite of the effort good parents put in to helping their children grow.)

    If I had a medal, I’d award it to mothers like you and Carolyn who make decisions to protect their children in the face of overwhelming disapproval and previous life programming. You have my deepest respect.

  508. E. Texas,
    Amen. I couldn’t have said it better, although I can attest to the same experiences. People think that the financial side of leaving the faith is hardest. But the emotional and spiritual side of it, especially for the children, is ten times the difficulty. Trying to console a crying child in the middle of the night who believes he is damned to hell for leaving, is heart wrenching. Trying to find counselors to actually help these children, instead of people who have no grasp on the mind control, and who want to dismiss it all as childish fears, and tell you that “children are resilient, and will come to grips in time.” My children all have skin as tough as nails. They had to to survive life inside the cult. But it has served them well outside as well. However, I still find myself asking, “how do I reach inside their little heads and let them know that God still loves them, and it will all be alright?” How do I reach inside my own head sometimes?

  509. little ex plig,

    I can imagine that when you have been trying your best to follow a religion/way of life of 100% devotion and faith, not a “part time” kind like so many know, it is awful hard to change gears. Those of us on the outside cannot possibly understand the depth and breadth of such a life. I think God knows our hearts and our intentions and judges upon that, not our feeble attempts at being “godly.” Hope the best for you and yours.

  510. Little ex plig kid

    I’m really going to try to handle this diplomatically, but I might fail so here goes…

    how do I reach inside their little heads and let them know that God still loves them

    First, I want to leave aside the issue of whether there is a God to love them, but why must they feel love from any source other than themselves? I’m a firm believer that if you go out looking for love, you’ll never find it. It has to come from within.

    To me “God loves them” is a rather backhanded way of finding love from within. It’s this approach of “well God loves me” therefore I must be “OK” so I should love myself.

    I my secular humanist/Buddhist belief system – we ARE love. We only need to throw off all our insecurities and self beliefs and find it within.

    We don’t need to go out looking – if you lookly deeply you’ll find it within.

    So, to the extent you love them – you’re only tapping into the vast resource of love inside you. Help them find that resource inside them and you don’t need to let them know that “God loves them.”

    Anyway, just my philosophical two cents for today.

  511. Ron… I couldn’t have said it better. I have arrived – it took years – at the same philosophy. WE ARE LOVE. And to me that means we are our own creators.

  512. Ron, Nicely said. So can you put that phylosophy into words that a child can comprehend? And perhaps myself too? I do hold to the belief that there is a God or Higher Power of some sort. That helps me get through the days sometimes. I still need, and I beleive my children still need to believe in something bigger than themselves. That being said, it’s true that we can find the love we need within ourselves. But first we must learn to forgive ourselves. Therin lies the problem. I think my children are coming to it much faster than I am, however. Thank you for your wisdom. I’ll keep it in mind.

  513. http://www.truthwillprevail.org/index.php?parentid=1&index=182

    have you seen this? those idiots over there are sure putting words in judge conn’s mouth.

  514. E. Texas,
    Thank you very much for responding to my question. It was probably hard to figure out just how to respond, and what to focus on, there are so many things. I do hope you will write a book. If not a book, consider joining up with others who have something to say about their time in 2 different worlds, and put together a compendium of narratives.

    I do want to address a comment you made,

    “anyone who actually does this has to accept somewhere down their rocky road that they will never be “normal” as defined by most of society.”

    Yes that is true in certain ways. We cannot undo the experiences that have marked us. And I can imagine that talking casually about where you’ve been will always produce that ‘eyes suddenly getting wider’ look in someone’s face who doesn’t know you. Here is something a dear friend said to me, many years ago, when the path ahead was murky,

    “There are some people who don’t realize they are not alone, and there are some people who don’t realize just how alone they are.”

    You, E. Texas, do not fall into the latter category. That is because you have already known just how alone you are, inside the community, coming out, and on the outside. And you know the problem that “normal” poses, in any society. So having emerged, one may seek not normalcy, but connectedness, that is what displaces aloneness.

    Many thanks again for taking the time.

  515. Normal applies to numbers, not people.

  516. Normal applies to numbers, not people.

    Amen, Betty. Besides who defines “normal?”

    It’s kind of like “dysfunctional family” – all families are dysfunctional – it’s simply a question of degrees.

  517. “…one may seek not normalcy, but connectedness…” You said it much more elegantly. Thank you Judith.

    Excellent points well-taken Betty & Ron. Degrees of family dysfunction: ain’t that the truth!

    I have been “blissed,” connected, genuinely loved — beyond measure.

  518. “Blissed” — I love that.

    I have pasted “E.Texas” in my dictionary under the definition for “wisdom.”

  519. Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.

    Leo Tolstoy, Anna Karenina, Chapter 1, first line

  520. Hey Ron, could you do a legal perspective on the FLDS “Truth Will Prevail” article ProudTexan linked to? I don’t know what document they were reading but I’ve yet to have read from any document that said what they’re claiming Conn said. Please, enlighten us non-legal types.

  521. Part 3 of the Shurtleff interview is up.

    http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/2010/02/shurtleff-interview-part-three/

  522. Since I love me my little Asperger, WoW playing girlfriend Rebeckah, I made a new post per her request.

    The post is called “Stupid is as Stupid Does?” It deals with the fact that Mr. Donald Richter’s post is either really, really stupid or simply a flat out lie.

  523. I read that Ron. I don’t necessarily agree with you but Don reached an erroneous conclusion.

  524. Excellent thread Ron. Indeed Richter is smarter than that. I say he is a bald faced liar – but isnt that what they do for a living?

    Twist –

    Thanks for the link – indeed thats good reading – what got me most was Shurt’s post about going to the LDS Church:

    ================

    “And I told them, ‘Frankly, Willie, that is bulls—-. ‘ ‘Well you went to them, we know you went to them.’ And I said I went to an apostle who was assigned to the state of Utah as his responsibility and I said I’m giving you a heads up we’re going to start prosecuting these guys — that was before Rodney Holm — and I just wanted you to be aware of it.

    You saw it with Tom Green, and it’s going to get worse. I wanted you to be aware of it.

    I said I’m not asking your permission, I’m not asking your blessing, and they said, good, because we wouldn’t give you either.”

    ======================

    I guess I am concerned on a couple levels,

    1) Why go to the “Apostle”, BFD do your job holmes,

    and

    2) The Apostle’s answer… Which smacks of acceptance of Polygamy.

    (However – it may be they “just dont want to be involved at any level” but NO thats not what was said…)

  525. thanks ron. you did a good job.

  526. We are truly ‘blissed’ Greg Abbott is the Attorney General of Texas.

  527. yes we are, he’s the deadbeat dad catcher!!!

    yo miele, you sued yourself lately?

  528. PT,

    Miele is answering you nothing. (wink)

  529. Thanks, Ron. I love the way you write things out so clearly that even the legally challenged (such as myself) can follow it. 😀

  530. http://166.70.44.68/blogs/plurallife/2010/02/photos-from-supreme-court-hearing/

    A rare photograph of Merril Jessop — awake and standing up.

    These were taken by a photographer at the Deseret News.

    Trent Nelson is in British Columbia covering the Olympics. I’ve been following his photo blog and if you like sports photography, his blogging from the Olympics is a must see.

    http://166.70.44.68/blogs/trent/

  531. Correction — the photographer works for the Tribune, not the Deseret News.

    I think a Deseret News photo was originally posted with the online version of Brooke’s story on last week’s arguments at the Utah Supreme Court.

  532. come on twist, he’s only awake because he was told to wake up and leave!!!

  533. Anybody know who the guy in the blue shirt no tie, shortish, very large pot belly is? Sort of looks like a guy interviewed as an apostate in one of the two videos – the one who explained why you need to marry girls young.

  534. I know this is a snarky thing to say, but are the FLDS men at ALL interested in healthy living? Most of the older ones look overweight and pastey faced, as if they lead a lifestyle high in white carbs and red meat, and low on exercising.

    String Bean Warren excepted, of course.

  535. Bill M, in contrast, is forever making fun of the out of shape CPS folks.

    Seems like most of the younger flds men are very much in shape as well as the majority of the ladies we saw on the YFZ ranch pics. I wonder if there is emphasis on self control in some areas?

  536. hhg, i think he’s a roundy.

  537. Which picture hhg?

  538. The younger flds men are still working physically, I bet.

  539. 3rd set of pics on brookes blog.

  540. hhg,

    The man from “Damned to Heaven” who did the yucky “why you need to marry them young” schtick is Marvin Wyler. He is apostate so it wouldn’t be him who you are describing if he was at the oral arguments.

    My understanding is that Warren takes great issue with women who have problems with their weight.

    I doubt that he says much about it to these men. He needs them too much.

    Plus they’re probably not much different than Warren when it comes to enjoying a meal at Tony Roma’s and other eating establishments out there in the wicked gentile world.

    He just has skinny genetics.

  541. LOL…that’s some view of Willie’s chins.

  542. I didn’t realize that Wendell isn’t all that big in stature when compared to Parker, Bradshaw and Willie.

    Snazzy tie and sweater he’s got on there, too.

    Warren has had nightmares, er visions, of FLDS men dressing too much in the gentile styles.

    Better watch out there, Wendell…

    Or maybe it’s Warren who needs to be looking out behind him.

  543. I don’t recognize the man hhg is referring to. It’s not Marvin Wyler and he’s too young to be Sam Roundy.

  544. i thought maybe it was j dee roundy.

  545. Might be, PT. I don’t know what J. Dee looks like and that man does resemble a younger version of Sam Roundy.

  546. For the Anonymous who asked me a few weeks ago about Warren’s “Ross Chatwin called me a pimp” comment, I finally found it.

    https://texasflds.wordpress.com/2009/02/26/wsj-dictations-june-8-july-30-2004/

    June 8, 2004:

    “Ross Chatwin called me a pimp, a man that sells women for prostitution. He called me a pimp.”

  547. the truth hurts sometimes.

  548. I don’t recognize the man hhg is referring to. It’s not Marvin Wyler and he’s too young to be Sam Roundy.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Looks like a Nielsen to me – Wendell’s son.

  549. Wendell’s always been on the short side. He has lost some weight!

  550. PT, you just think he is a Roundy because he is so round, LOL.

  551. Poor Old Wendell,, the poor guy looks 80 yrs old

  552. Hi all,

    I’m writing from the hubby’s computer. (usurped for the moment)

    My (beloved) hardworking computer of 11 years – gave up the ghost recently. All of a sudden it, LOUDLY — whirred, whizzed, buzzed …and then kerchunked…thought I heard it yell, “Oh God!” . then it was over. Fried power source. But Huzzah! the drive is Saved.

    So anyway…this happened a few hours after I had copied a pic of Fat Willie from court, and….image googled ‘Queen Victoria’

    Separated at birth. swear.

    I was going to do a quick photoshop side-by-side for giggles, but can’t right now.

    All he needs is the little demi-crown — it’s a match. Google, if you’re inclined. 😉

    “He is NOT amused.” fwah, fwah, fwah ~

  553. dang, above post from TexasMom

  554. TM, thanks for the chuckle to go along with my morning coffee. “Separated at birth.” lol
    Your post painted perfect imagery for me – no need for photoshopping

    But sorry ’bout your beloved computer (rip) but hey, 11 years is one heck of a long time – perhaps even a record. And so lucky your hard drive is intact!

  555. Lost in Polygville has an interesting new post. Some about Ruth.

  556. Texas Twist, thank so much for searching for that quote about Ross Chatwin. I’ll check it out when I have some time.

    And, yes, that short fat round belly guy is a Roundy. I’ll have to think about his first name and let you know when I can remember it.

    I want to say it is Boyd Roundy, but can’t promise right now.

  557. From Brooke Adams blog –
    “I don’t just write about polygamy any more. I am assigned now also to the subjects of child welfare, adoption and domestic violence.”

    That is a scary thought. I wonder what her take on those issues will be.

  558. Seriously, the fat guys name is “Roundy?” Too funny.

  559. I don’t know if I was bored this weekend or just wanted to write but I put up two posts.

    This one is about the UEP having Warren’s dictations

    and This one is about what I think the current FLDS spin is.

  560. I too wonder. She never addressed any legal or moral issue with FLDS taking some other mothers’ children whether to abuse or lovingly or the mothers’ standpoints and mothers’ hearts. Imagine an infant abritrarily taken from his or her mother and never told what woman or this or that is MOTHER, if mother is living or dead, and the kidnapped and imprisoned mother having no idea where any of her children are, living or dead. This crime family, they are a sorry screwed up bunch.

  561. Adams never commented on those children from YFZ, claimed by Merrill and Barbie, who were told to stop asking for their mother.

  562. “Seriously, the fat guys name is “Roundy?” Too funny.”

    My family is prone to a certain hefty size — our family name is “Stout”. 🙂

  563. LOL Rebeckah

  564. From Brooke Adams blog –
    “I don’t just write about polygamy any more. I am assigned now also to the subjects of child welfare, adoption and domestic violence.”

    That is a scary thought. I wonder what her take on those issues will be.

    Anonymous said this on February 22, 2010 at 9:57 AM
    ****************************************

    Holy Crap!! Do they just have ONE reporter??

  565. Can someone explain Judge Lindberg’s ruling to Vacate? it was posted on Brooke Admams blog today.

  566. If Jeffs was deliberately challenging the law, what did he hope to accomplish?

    Here are some of his quotes on the subject:
    July 2, 2004, p. 22,

    “The Lord will have me do more marriages of very young girls. This will make the government rage and come against us stronger than ever.”

    November 24, 2003, p. 163,

    “And I will teach the young people that there is no such thing as an underage Priesthood marriage but that it is a protection for them if they will look at it right and seek unto the Lord for a testimony. The Lord will have me do this, get more young girls married, not only as a test to the parents, but also to test this people to see if they will give the Prophet up.”

    November 26, 2003, p. 179

    “But I showed him the tests coming upon this people as the government would come against me. Then I revealed to Wendell that the Lord wanted me to receive this thirteen-year-old bride and also for her deliverance as well as the Lord allowing this to be a reason in the government’s eyes to come stronger against this people. I explained the principle of the Lord cutting short His work in righteousness by me performing these works that
    would bring the wicked against us to justify the Lord in destroying them, at a quicker pace.”

    To summarize:
    1) A ‘test’ of the loyalty of the people to Jeffs
    2) By provoking the gentile world into action, he will bring down the wrath of God and get the gentile’s destroyed on his time table instead of God’s.

    Crazy, that. I’ve got to wonder if there is some part of his mind going “but what if you’re wrong and you just end up in jail?”.

  567. It sounds to me that the water authority put in a motion to her and when she set a hearing to review it, they put in another motion saying she couldn’t review it because it had been turned over to a different court. And she answered, OK, you’re right, but you are really beginning to annoy me and I’m not going to be nice about you guys wasting my time!

    that’s my take on it, basically.

  568. Ditto that on Betty’s take on the vacate order. ITs a perfect example of too much frivolous litigation.

    And thanks Betty for finding those “Jeffie-isms”.

    What a mixed up world he lives in!

    Between his ears.

    Good thing those ears are kept in the Cellosteel Kingdom!

  569. Thanks Betty
    I really can’t blame Judge Lindberg at all,,sounds like the court system in Utah is screwed up!! The left hand doesn’t have clue what the right is doing

  570. The FLDS are simply spamming the courts with crap lawsuits, but they are seen for what they are.

    These incidences, like this and the Holy COW! fiasco at the Supreme court, puts the world on notice what fools the FLDS are.

  571. And she answered, OK, you’re right, but you are really beginning to annoy me and I’m not going to be nice about you guys wasting my time!
    ===========================================================
    I thought they saved her time by reminding her that the matter was turned over to another court?

  572. Alinusara10 said this on February 22, 2010 at 3:19 PM
    “I thought ”

    Ahh haa haa haa, you “thought”, not possible, but you do spout what warren and wee willie tell you to very well.

  573. Al

    Can you read?

    “For the record, however, the Court notes that it would have been
    helpful if TCWA had reminded the Court of the partial
    disqualification Order when it filed its brief in opposition to the
    Trust’s motion and/or in support of its own motion for protective
    order.”

  574. One thing I find odd is that Brooke finds lots of airtime for little nothing manuevers but when Allan Keate got convicted and then sentenced to 33 years in prison, nothing but a tweet.

    Guess she knows who to leave the heavy lifting to.

  575. NO NO!!!! Stamp,, thats the problem Alinsura refuses to read!!! To comprehend!!!

  576. DD – AH thats it – if he DOES attempt to read it, there is always that comprehension hurdle to deal with – maybe he should stick to “LiesmadeusFail”.

  577. HAHAHAH Stamp!!

  578. “For the record, however, the Court notes that it would have been
    helpful if TCWA had reminded the Court of the partial
    disqualification Order when it filed its brief in opposition to the
    Trust’s motion and/or in support of its own motion for protective
    order.”
    =========================================
    I read that Stamp. I interpret it to mean that for the record it would have been helpful if council have reminded me of something I should have already known.

  579. They both forgot about it.

    If they wanted to “Save her time” then they should say so when they filed motions and briefs. They didnt, read it again Al.

  580. No, they wasted her time by filing in her court in reference to something that had already been moved to another court. Knowingly, it seems, as well.

  581. “I read that Stamp. I interpret it to mean that for the record it would have been helpful if council have reminded me of something I should have already known.”

    Al, judges tend to be pretty busy people with LOTS of cases to hear. This is in reference to a matter that was dealt with over a year ago. Professional courtesy says that the attorneys filing should have pointed that out to the judge. By not doing so they have certainly irritated the judge. Not terribly clever of them but maybe they want to claim prejudice on the part of the judge later.

  582. Big yawn, some things never change. Ignorant and uniformeld alin posts none sense ramblings.
    Ole deci duane posts along with his troop of strawmen

  583. Jeffs and some of those folks too, all need a checkup from the neck up.

  584. Its snowing outside,, its really Purty!!!

  585. Yeah, purty cold. I was just in Ozona the other day, and raced that baby outta there.

    Throw on yer boots and get us a picture. Tomorrow when I sue myself, I’m wearing flip-flops.

  586. Miele said: “Tomorrow when I sue myself, I’m wearing flip-flops.”

    hmmmm…are they white & delightsome flip-flops?… because it’s after Labor Day and before Spring.

    I may have to counter-sue, even though we have no affiliation, and I have no official standing — but that won’t deter me.

    You may expect papers by Monday, but there will be no responding address as I’m filing in a state that with no jurisdiction.

    Your deposition will also be requested, but you may be certain that I will file for the charges to be vacated in advance.

    Yours truly, TexasMom

  587. dang…editing skills : “I’m filing in a state that with no jurisdiction.”

    rather..””I’m filing in a state that has no jurisdiction.”

  588. I’ll explain the TWCA order – and yes, like most things FLDS it’s pretty stupid

    1. Judge Lindberg signs an order saying she can’t rule on the conflicting motion for contempt and motion for protective order and that they’re going to need to have an evidentiary hearing.

    2. Counsel for TWCA says, “well, you can’t rule that you can’t rule because you’ve been disqualified.”

    3. Judge Lindberg gets annoyed and says “well, if you didn’t want me to rule that I can’t rule then you should have told me when you filed a response.”

    4. Judge Lindberg signs an order retracting her ruling that she couldn’t rule.

    The net effect is of course zero. They’ll probably have to resolve it by trying that portion of the case to the assigned judge.

    I tell you the Utah Bar Association needs to put the FLDS on their permanent Christmas card list. Hmmm, maybe FLDS really means “Full Legal Daily Stipend”

  589. Yeehaw

    Everyone join with Rod Parker while he does the cotton eyed joe.

  590. By anonymous proxy, I dead dunk you in my name, TexasMom. Therefore when you sue me, you only sue yourself as me.
    Very truly yours,

    Miele.

  591. So the net legal effect is zero, however the net financial effect is the flds are minus $ and their attornies are positive $?
    The way the flds are squandering money on attorneys they must have a gold mine on berry knoll.

  592. Off topic

    The plural life bloggers are promoting the idea that Brooke Adams reassignment to other news is due to the fact that the SLT site has been taken over by anti-polygamists

    In the two years I have been following the FLDS half the fun is monitoring mental contortions that people go through

  593. Yes Ron, but you actually read and understand the law. In Rodney’s world, apparently ‘substantially related’ means something like, “He used to be my neighbor, but now he’s my cousin.”

  594. The plural life bloggers are promoting the idea that Brooke Adams reassignment to other news is due to the fact that the SLT site has been taken over by anti-polygamists

    What’s the price of Alco today?

  595. Renewal, for Jabberwocky. It’s worked for them, so far.

  596. I think the PPPP folded like yesterdays garden lilies when the convictions started coming down and the proof was shown.

    Pretty hard to defend those child molesting actions, but its true on occasion some do.

    Will wonders never cease?

  597. Actually, I’m having a hard time figuring out if the PPPP are now saying:

    1. We have a constitutional right to be child molesters; or

    2. We may be child molesters but you violated our constitutional rights

    Hmmm, maybe they’re making both arguments at different times.

  598. “taken over”? So they are admitting that we have beaten them with facts and logic?

  599. I think I heard Willie say “The girls dont complain when we molest them” or something to that effect.

  600. It seems none of the newspapers are heavily covering what is going on with flds. deseret news wrote about the USCO issue, but before that, they reported little since the first of the year.
    SLT has cut back stories on Polygamy to maybe ONE a week. Although Ms Adams continues to post information in her PERSONAL blog.
    I do beleive the LDS organization of Utah has lots of influence on newspapers and this story.

  601. 2. We may be child molesters but you violated our constitutional rights
    =================================================
    I’ll go with curtain number 2. Pretty clearcut evidence that crimes actually did occur.

  602. Yeah, thats true, and while they whine about “constitutional rights” they havent shown where those were violated.

  603. DD

    Well, the LDS Church OWNS the Dizzy news, and the message board there IS heavily moderated.

    There are times I feel there is an off the record squelch request, I guess that became apparent to me when the Trib reported ZERO on Allen Keate getting 33 years – the longest prison sentence EVER and no zada zip article in the trib.

    WE keep reminding them though 🙂

  604. Somebody didn’t want Mike’s trial looked into, either. Not at all. I don’t wonder.

    But here’s my take on this polygamy stuff not being under the trib’s crime heading and FLDS crimes not being reported: It’s political, national politics and LDS states’ as well.

    Step 2: many don’t know there is a difference between LDS, and FLDS or any of the other LDS sports. It’s all mormon to them.

    So ah as I said, it’s political, to be downplayed or shine a light on some dishonest point of view. Don’t look here, look over there pay no attention to that man behind that curtain …

  605. Alin, you don’t know your numbers yet?

  606. Keate was reported on:

    12/18/2009 06:43:50 AM MST

    “Polygamist gets 33 years for sex assault”

    Now Brooke never covered it, but I don’t think they had her covering it. They solely relied on news/wire services.

  607. Guys – I’m not sticking up for the trib, but come on, they are in pretty bad financial straits.

  608. I agree with Ron on this one, I wouldn’t read too much into her reassignment – I think that she has had some national recognition for her work and they are keeping her on, just giving her a wider range of topics.

  609. right, like LDS adopting Haiti refugees, lol thats extremely important

  610. FYI – Stephanie Sinclair recently won an award for her FLDS photos.

    The photos have been made available here, and some of them are new to me:
    http://www.poyi.org/67/CAA/first_01.php

  611. I agree with Ron on this one, I wouldn’t read too much into her reassignment – I think that she has had some national recognition for her work and they are keeping her on, just giving her a wider range of topics.
    ——–
    For a moment I hoped this would mean that a better reporter would take over the “polygamy beat”.

    But in reality Brooke just has another excuse for neglecting to cover any news that a handful of FLDS men don’t want her to cover.

  612. Well, I know from my experience working for a company who was slowly but surely going broke….your assignments don’t always make sense and they are rarely what you think they should be. I swear I spent more time in the last two years I worked as a project manager recasting the budget and proving that my staff was working only on budgeted tasks than I did actually managing anything they were doing!

  613. Just read a post on Bill M’s site which concluded by saying:

    “The FLDS will prevail because they are on
    the side of what is right and just.”

    I wonder if they teach obeying the 10 Commandments? Seriously, do they?

  614. Ron, I thought I missed the sentencing article, didnt see it in the “Polygamy section” – where they do put AP articles too.

    Then she neglected to even make a post on her blog about it, which I thought slim shady.

    IRT her reassignments, your right, they may be playing shuffle the deck, musical chairs, and see who is left standing. Like Betty said in times like this things are shaken up whether they make sense or not.

    I’d like the trib to continue, though newspapers in general are dinosaurs and havent made the proper leap online IMHO.

  615. Just read a post on Bill M’s site which concluded by saying:

    “The FLDS will prevail because they are on
    the side of what is right and just.”
    …………………………………

    Only sociopaths believe that child molestation is “right and just.”

  616. Crap. I have gotten myself as hooked on Big Love as I was on The Sopranos.

    Both are soap operas full of deceit and violence.

    The difference is, I actually find the Soprano family more likeable than the Hendricksons LOL

  617. It’s right and just, apparently, to impregnate a 12 year old deliberately. Wow, who knew?

  618. Anon

    Indeed, thats some strong koolaid they pass around over there.

    Anon Big Love, perhaps its the abusive raw nature of polygamy that is parodied that you find distasteful.

    I find that if you look for the parallels, you will see many, the show has me LMAO – and the next minute creeped out.

    It’s too bad they dont show the REAL horrors, it would take ALL the humor out of it.

    Unless you were into dark comedies like “FARGO” and got a kick out of bad guys getting woodchipped.

    In this story, its nearly always the women and children who are the harmed party, and that just isnt funny.

  619. Brooke has another post up “He said, He said” where she is spouting more lies by Rod Parker. I am sure she will not post my comment (she has not posted the last 3 I submitted) so here it is:

    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    February 23, 2010 at 1:13 pm

    Ummmmm, Shurtleff said he asked for evidence, not just “he said, he said”. Most of the things in the document filed by Parker have already been proven to be false if now outright lies. Like the “Holy Cow” situation the FLDS state lies and the fiduciary has documentation to prove they are lies. How about an interview with Parker where you show him the documentation of his lies and then get his explanation for that?

  620. I got the first disk first season of Big Love from Netflix and watched the first two episodes. I really thought the pilot was hilarious. The second one was…um…darker. I have requested the next disk, but I’m not sure about it still. I think, Hollywood style, they are totally overplaying the sex and the viagra thing, but I think they are doing a good job of covering all the issues, both pro and con.

    So far the only Hendricksons I like is the first wife and the daughter who is working in a fast food joint. Oh, and I thought her LDS ‘friend’ was very funny.

    On the other hand, my husband, who is totally uninterested in my study of polygamy was horrified. First he said that marriage should allow both the male and the female to feel that someone is totally committed to them and them alone. The imbalance bothered him and he thought that the responsibilities the male had was not worth all the attention he got from the women. But the worst thing, he said was that the little girls were growing up to think that they did not deserve having a committed partner. He got so upset that he left the room.

    Isn’t he awesome?

  621. Personally from shirtless all the way down to parker, they are all “whiners”.. If you will do this, Ill do that, where’s the evidence? Well he didnt give me evidence, well yes we did, no you didn’t.
    I represeneted FLDS back in 2005 before the trust was taken (parker says) but HE QUIT, doesnt say much about that.. Now hes whining about Judge lindberg taking him off the case. Of course whiney as brooke never states that Parker quit, because Flds refused to pay him the 400,000 they owed him in 2005. Now they paid, and Parker wants his hands back in the pockets of flds,, make a buck and continue to Whine…
    whine whine whine,, just get er DONE for God’s sake!

  622. LadySadie, your right, she probably wont okay your post, although there is nothing wrong with it. She will allow penis breaths posts (hugh and bills).

  623. Betty

    I can understand his reluctance to delve into this world – its dark and just not right.

    I see the show as a parody that is meant to play on the fantasy and show various sundry roadblocks the lifestyle gives everyone, and in that context its funny and educational.

    It doesnt go nearly deep enough though – to do so would be to kill it.

  624. I had a post approved, made a small edit, BACK into moderation! LMAO

  625. BTW Hugh got his tush booted quite well by Twist, he has STFU or, its possible his post is in time-out too!

  626. WATCHING says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    February 23, 2010 at 9:46 am
    MA

    Oh, really now. As Trustee he has to manage the properties, and he cant have people stealing from it, whether its FLDS or not. People cant just move into a house without an agreement and expect to stay there, if you could you would just move into that million dollar empty foreclosure across town.

    As TBM points out, the law as it is run in CC isn’t really law, its just more abuse by FLDS INC.

  627. IRT the he said thread:

    WATCHING says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    February 23, 2010 at 12:35 pm
    “The guilty finding was made by Moccasin Justice Court Judge Kalauli, who has no affiliation with the FLDS.”

    Oh, except the FLDS elected him to office?

    And how is it we don’t get served cheese with that whine?

  628. From Biles site:

    “The FLDS will prevail because they are on
    the side of what is right and just.

    1. Bob on February 23rd, 2010 at 1:54 pm”

    ===================

    HE HE HE

    So far the law has prevailed Bob – 3 FLDS geezers up to bat in Texas, three sent to prison.

    Whats “RIGHT” is prevailing – indeed – ya really ought to think up a new slogan.

    Like

    “Them’s my little skirts! Hands off!”

  629. LOL, Brooke didn’t approve my comment and it has been deleted.

  630. She struggles with the truth when it runs counter to Willies spin cycle.

  631. OOPS!!!!!!! Dumbass alert! Sazzie still thinks molesting girls is a religious right guaranteed by the Constitution!

    =================

    Bob – taking “right” and “just” out of it, the FLDS should prevail as their freedom of religion is guaranteed in the constitution.

    it should be that simple, shouldn’t it?

    1. Sazzie on February 23rd, 2010 at 3:45

  632. I am appalled that Brooke allows vicious and libelous comments to be made about Carolyn Jessop, but won’t allow comments about legal and factual aspects of the various cases.

    My take is she sucks up to the FLDS elite so they will continue to talk to her, but everything they say is just a repeat of the “we’re being unfairly persecuted for our religion” mantra.

  633. See, they’ve got a split personality – one time it’s their constitutional right to be child molesters – next time it’s a complaint about how their rights were violated by the raid.

    I honestly think Bill realizes they’re not going to win on appeal. Lately his arguments are that the FLDS are just a despised group that will never get justice.

  634. Just wondering, you know lurene Jessop had run off with a guy named “Bob” and then went back to Val jessop, wonder if this “Bob is the same “bob” posting on bills blog?

  635. Ron

    Bile bombards his FLDS shtick with so much CPS hatred its hard to see where he is coming from, beyond that of being the nest of bitter feelings from his incarceration days.

    Enough of his bloviating has been proven to be lies on various websites – even, yes his own.

    There are days I think that if CPS was never involved in the FLDS deal, he just wouldnt care.

    And talk about photos – perhaps the Trib had him in mind when they started posting “copyright” on photos, as Trent has complained to Bill about that.

  636. DD

    “Bob” is about as definitive as “Anon”

    Why dont they start posting as “Bubba1” and a “Bubba2”

  637. One of the worst PR moves the FLDS group ever made was to align themselves with the FREE THE FLDS CHILDREN website and all the hate that is printed there.

  638. Bubba3 (cute!)

    Indeed, and its so course that I think they keep him at arms length. He actually makes more of his relationship with them than is really there, I’m sure.

    As in, he emails Pliggy once a week. So, I take him with a truckload of salt.

  639. Alin, you don’t know your numbers yet?
    ================================
    I know you are trying to insult me Grannytoad but that question makes no sense.

  640. Maybe we are all waiting for the FLDS to make sense..

    Its been a long time coming, and the law is telling them they got it wrong – really really really wrong.

  641. One of the worst PR moves the FLDS group ever made was to align themselves with the FREE THE FLDS CHILDREN website and all the hate that is printed there.
    ——-
    I’d like to give the FLDS the benefit of the doubt and assume that any association with the FREE THE FLDS CHILDREN website was motivated by shared feelings of anger, betrayal, etc. toward CPS and the government.

    If I thought their association with BILL M. was any kind of calcuated FLDS PR move, I’d have to conclude that they’re complete idiots.

  642. What’s the next news to come down the pike?
    The Jeffs Arizona trial?
    The Wisan Arizona moved trial?
    The Usupreme court decision?
    The Merrill contempt of court for non-payment?
    Or the remaining YFZ cases?

  643. Not to give away any plotline for “Big Love,” but they take a good portion of their stories straight out of the news and past and current polygamist events.

    The fundamentalists in the show who live in Mexico are obviously based on Ervil LeBaron and his gang. Very creepy, as well as a reminder of the bitter and murderous infighting that has been going on for decades with all these people. It’s all about power, and who holds it.

    The “Wanda” character reminds me of Ruth Cook.

  644. Anon, Mark Olsen is an attorney besides being a brilliant writer.
    He does all his own research.

    I would imagine Mark Olsen and Will Sheffer aren’t the FLDS’s favorite people. In season one and two they gave each character deep dimension. Now it’s going to get ugly.

    The ‘Lura’ character reminds me of Barbara Jessop. Casting Matt Ross as ‘Alby’ was pure genius.

  645. Any TV show that’s got Harry Dean Stanton AND Bruce Dern is a must-see!

  646. Too bad Harry Stanton didnt make it past season 3. Oh well, on to bigger and better Prophets!

  647. Last hurrah for Harry Stanton as “Roman”

    RIP, Harry, as “Roman”

  648. Well, I still say that if we ‘Gentiles’ are expected to watch ‘Big Love’, that the fundamentalists should be made to watch ‘The Bachelor’ that guy might start off with 20 women but he only ends up with one woman. It probably would scare the Priesthood men so bad they would have nightmares.

  649. LOL that is funny!

  650. Ah, but Harry Dean did make season 4. He comes back and is in the room with Alby berating him as a ‘sodomite.’ Only Alby sees or hears him.

    Besides, in HDS’s own words – You can’t kill him, he’s the Prophet of Juniper Creek!

  651. I’m tired of suing Miele & myself…as I’ve already exhausted funds from that account. The faithful at the WTF Ranch have tithed enough for me to now sue Betty …and possibly Stamp.

    Charges are not fully fleshed out, as Rod Parker has not returned any of my phone calls (yet)

    I’m considering contracting Ron-in-Houston, but only if he would be willing to sue TexasBluesMan anonymously.

    I’d like Miele to represent me/us.

    p.s. When’s the next trial or (more likely) plead-out?

  652. I answer everyone nothing. 😉

  653. march 8 is trial date. it’s leroy (you’re 18) jessop.

  654. Miele

    Rulon seems to be living on in Warrens mind too – hmmmm they wouldnt follow the real deal that close would they?

    HAW!

  655. Please continue on Open Discussion #27

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