FLDS Suspected Child Bride list – Partial listing


Warren owns almost all of page 3, with 18 suspected Child Brides 16 or younger.


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~ by FLDS TEXAS on January 12, 2010.

146 Responses to “FLDS Suspected Child Bride list – Partial listing”

  1. Dang.

    I don’t see any “wives” by the name of Emack. Doesn’t Michael Emack have a couple of married daughters on the ranch? And the husband of one of them’s under indictment?

  2. Another question… are all these “wives” still assigned to their original “husbands,” or have they been reassigned to other men? Do you have any records of that?

    Great spreadsheet, btw. Good job.

  3. My brain’s just poppin’… I have another question… anybody know hoow many of these young women have children, and at what age the moms were when the babies were born?

  4. I just wanted the list for the next twelve to see if Merrianne and Teresa Jo Steed were added/deleted. This seems to be a comprehensive list but some of these names are in the next dozen set. Thanx

  5. Yes, I’m sure there was an ever changing landscape there, with all the musical beds they were playing.

    And 18 child brides for Warren alone? Wow he didnt know when to quit – good thing he is in prison so there is a stop to that predatory behavior.

    I’d guess the bulk of them had children – maybe they will post that next?

    And I wonder if the National Geographic had access to these records for their magazine.

  6. i’ll list the one’s I know had children.

    Broadbent and wife had first child when she was 16.

    abram harker jeffs is one of the dirty dozen. he and s. johnson had their first one when she was 16 and then a second before she turned 18. he also has a child with r anne allred.

    allan eugene keate, one of the original dirty dozen, is in jail for his child bride/baby.

    alam lee barlow and m. elizabeth brighurst have a child. maybe he can be atop the utah dirty dozen list.

    alma n. musser married a sister to m. elizabeth and they had a child muy pronto.

    alvin isaac black and a jessop have lots of kids together.

    aquilla leon nielsen, brother to original dirty dozen member, wendell had his blushing bride of 16 have children.

  7. rattle – emack’s on there twice, once for the “marriage” he’s going to trial about in a couple of weeks and the other from his “original” model wife. she was 16 when they married and 17 when she had the first of many children.

    speaking of keeping the original question about switching hubby’s, emack’s got a daughter who is 24 and had 3 new husbands in 3 years and she’s got a kid by each of them.

  8. Dang, do they all have the same sky daddy dna?

  9. if you look closely at the list, you’ll see the good doc, lloyd hammon barlow on the list with his own child bride. as is warren’s brother, leroy, who not only married 4 child brides, he also gave 3 of his own daughters as underage brides.

    donald robert barlow allred is the father of allan keate’s victim, he might be the one who got off on a technicality.

  10. from what i’ve been told about warren’s preachin, as soon as the i dos are said, the dna changes “poof” to be the dna of the new daddy.

  11. Emack’s daughter has had three husbands and a kid by each one? Geeez. I only knew about one child.

  12. Child sexual abuse is part and parcel of polygamy and the FLDS in particular. This list demonstrates that as clearly as anything ever could—a pattern that dates back to the early days of this group and probably is far more exhaustive than any forensic researcher can put together this many years after the fact.

    This is sickening. Sickening.

  13. Yeah, I just love that dna change thang.

  14. Donald Robert “Bob” Barlow was found not guilty by a Mohave County, Arizona jury.

    Unlike Texas venue (the where) of the sexual contact is an element in the relevant Arizona statute. Where the sexual contact took place had to be proven by the prosecution beyond a reasonable doubt.

    Barlow’s defense had a witness who tesitified that Barlow was working in Salt Lake City during the period of time that the act would have taken place.

    Acquitted.

  15. They should have figured out a way to use that DNA change thing as a screen to fool the courts—remarrying the baby mamas so the evidence DNA would be that of, say, Barack Obama.

    I would love to know the age spread. Everyone knows that teen girls’ romantic dreams are of slightly balding men with paunches and varicosities, piles, foot funguses, yellowing teeth, and all the other embarrassments of age.

  16. Hey, proudtexan, do you know the name of the mother of the Emack daughter who’s on her third husband?

  17. GFNY was that Sickening X 2? Glad to read your post and outrage. Wonder if you care to mention about the reassignments of ‘Child Brides’ to 50+year old men, once they have been impregnated by their first Priesthood husbands and find they’re original husband has been shunned and ordered to ‘Worship from Afar’.

  18. However much I disapprove of extra-legal punishment, there are a few people on this list I’d like to see tormented. I have a strong impulse to pack up my night-vision goggles and scimitar and saunter out to Texas for a visit if the sentences are not commensurate with the crimes. (But I believe they will be.)

    The business of a young girl being on her third sham “marriage” is no different from the child sex trade in third-world countries—it’s illegal and immoral, and it should be punished to the fullest extent possible. (I am not opposed to the removal of genitalia as a punishment for child sexual abuse, BTW.)

    I’d also like to see the so-called parents who sold them into this sexual slavery prosecuted. And every time a woman or girl in this group goes on Oprah or Larry King and says something drippy in defense of the men, I’d tack a mandatory five years on every man’s sentence.

  19. WOW look how many child brides with the surname Steed Warren “married”.

    Then there’s at least one whose mother was a Steed (Merianne) and who knows how many other relatives he’s had children with.

    What other new hereditary diseases are going to show up in this next generation?

    YIKES!

  20. Greetings, It’s good to see you back.

  21. The two Bringhurst sisters married to Alma Lee Barlow and Alma N. Musser at 15 and 16 are Eddie Jessop’s (as in Eddie and Zavenda) step-daughters.

    Their mother has shared two husbands with Zavenda and she and Zavenda have the same father, but different mothers.

  22. What about all the girls taken to Canada and married up there? What about Kelly Fisher and his step daughter. What about Winston’s brides (he was also FLDS and a trustee of the UEP) I would venture to guess 3 or 4 times this amount would not touch it. The trafficking of girls to and from Canada in the polygamous sex trade went on for years, probably still happening.

  23. martha alice emack’s mom’s name is sarah hammon. i think she’s the legal wife of emack. emack also married sarah’s sister, celia hammon and celia ann barlow.

  24. newel k. steed on the list is the father of babs jessop.

  25. Greetings, Not the FLDS in particular. The Kingstons are big time abusers and believe incest is part of their religion. And they are a whole lot wealthier than the FLDS.

  26. GULP, Garshhh GFNY you’d take their goof balls away!
    BUT, But, but….you don’t understand their culture and they’ll never understand our culture. Removing their testing equipment is a laudable idea and closing down their private birthrooms is another.

  27. Winston’s wives: I don’t have all the ages. He has admitted to 9 16 or younger also many brought illegally to Canada.

    1. Jane Oler, 18, legally married in 1975. Divorced 2005. Canadian.
    2. Christina Gallup Blackmore, 15. Married in 1982, daughter of Leroy Gallup and Karen Quinton in Colorado City. She is a second cousin to Winston. American (although possibly now has Canadian citizenship)
    3. Mary Ann Gallup, 16. Married in 1985, Christina’s full sister. American (although possibly now has Canadian citizenship).
    4. Marjorie Johnson 16
    5. Sharon Johnson 17
    6. Susan Gallup, 15. Full sister to Christina and Mary Ann.
    7. Harmony Quinton, 15. Daughter of Barlow and Becky Quinton. American
    8. Edith Barlow. Daughter of Alvin Barlow. American facing deportation.
    9. Leah Barlow, 24. Daughter of Alvin Barlow. An RN and midwife, she was actively courted by Winston.
    10. Kandi Bateman. 16
    11. Catherine Broadbent, 16. Sister to Fawn Broadbent, returned to Colorado City after the split and took Winston’s son with her. Reassigned to ????
    12. Marsha Chatwin, 17. Married same day as her sister, Zelpha.
    13. Zelpha Chatwin, 21. Both Marsha and Zelpha are under deportation orders.
    14. Marleena Fischer, daughter of Vaughan Fischer (possibly Sharane is her mother?)
    15. Janelle Thornton Fischer, 16. Adopted daughter of Vaughan and Sharane Fischer. Her mother, Brenda Thornton, was briefly married to Vaughan Fischer before she died of cancer. Brenda’s sisters (one if Janet Johanson) tried to gain custody of Brenda’s children in the late 1980s and lost in court. American.
    16. Shirley Black Jessop. Daughter of Orson and Leora Jessop. American
    17. Jennifer Johnson. Daughter of Larry Johnson. American
    18. Lorraine Johnson, 15. Daughter of Ray Johnson. American
    19. Diana Lane, 17. Daughter of Edwin Johnson. American
    20. Marsha Lane. Daughter of Edwin Johnson. American
    21. Ruth Lane. Daughter of Edwin Johnson. American
    22. Shalina Palmer, 15. Daughter of Morgan Palmer and Ruth McKinley. Canadian. Legally married Lorraine Johnson in December 2005 under Canada’s same-sex marriage law.
    23. Allaire Blackmore. Adopted daughter of Ray and Anna Mae Blackmore, widow of Ray Blackmore and Dalmon Oler, sister to Winston. Canadian.
    24. Cherene Palmer. Widow (3rd wife) of Charles Quinton. Canadian.
    25. Carlene Gallup Blackmore. Widow of Shannon Gallup. Canadian.
    26. Mary Ann (Meg) Wall. Daughter of Lloyd Wall. American.

    Esther Chatwin 13 American married by Winston to one of this nephews 28 years old.

  28. What truly horrifies me is that NO attempt has been made to even identify the carriers of fumarase deficiency trait so that these people don’t marry each other and give birth to children who live in horrible pain until they die. It is simply immoral.
    And where is the state commissioner of health on this issue ?
    NOWHERE
    What political correctness !!!!!!!!!!!

  29. all of the blackmore girls who are married to warren are from canada. marlene was at the ranch when the rescue took place. her story was she was visiting her grandmother. what grandmother? there wasn’t a grandmother of hers on the place, only sister wives and fellow canadian blackmores.

  30. then there’s the wonderful warm and fuzzy story of merrianne jessop, all of 12 when she joined her nieces brenda lei fischer and loretta jane barlow as celestial wives of warren. brenda lei was 12 and loretta jane got left off the list, but she was 13.

  31. OMG FLDS WTF?!

  32. Wow. Most of those girls were very young.

    What an incredible hunger for affection and attention for so many and such a glut of it for just one person. I feel sorry for those young women and for the young men their own age who could have loved them. Just such a waste. If you only need 3 wives, why have 23?

  33. it appears that GFNY has returned with a vengeance, wielding a scimitar… run for cover everyone …..

  34. OMG!! How sick!!! It looks alot worse written on paper than it does hearing about it at the trials. Just sick–sick people…the mothers too!!!!

  35. Merrianne also joined her half-sister (one of Ruth’s) who married Warren at 13.

  36. oh yeah twist, ida vilate jessop, right?

  37. actually rattle, martha alice emack’s step-son is keith william dutson, jr and he’s on the indicted list for marrying one of allan eugene keate’s daughters, rebecca keate.

  38. How many generations back does this habit go of breeding with their children?

  39. Yep, PT, that’s the one.

  40. How many babies is this?

  41. One not on the list.

    Dan Barlow, Sr. married 15 y/o E. Black (b. 9-1937) in 9-1952.

  42. How many babies married, GT, or how many produced from these unions?

    The answer to the first is “too many” and to the second, “bunches.”

  43. Did Oprah believe the sideshow they put on out at YFZ? They’re desperate for favorable PR. I have NO idea why MSM hasn’t picked up on these sick effers given the running courtroom scene and guilty judgments.

    Ah I remember the days when Willy the Thug could get away with saying of this criminal breeding scheme to the effect that “we don’t do it, and we’re going to stop.”. He’s never minded much, being known as a liar, because it’s not a good idea to get in his face – in his and Warren’s World.

  44. Say it isn’t so. Now I’m hearing that photojournalist Stephanie Sinclair was suckered in by this bunch. Well I do hope not, because it’s said she did a spread for National Geographic including one or some of Warren Jeff’s wives.

    Her “wedding photos” of child “wives” of middle aged Afghani men would make a great spread with some of Warren Jeffs’ with his baby wives.

    Anyone here got a link to some of those sickening photos?

  45. here it is attila

    http://www.viiphoto.com/detailStory3.php?news_id=767

  46. Milk those magical cows and churn up some butter to slather on that crusty fragrant homemade bread just out of the oven. These little girls have forty-leven toddlers yelling at their mamas for food.

  47. Katchalater,

    Don’t know if you’ve seen this:

    http://www.vancouversun.com/pdf/daphnedocument.pdf

    I believe it is the 2005 RCMP data on Winston Blackmore’s wives and some of his children obtained by Daphne Bramham.

  48. Ulp PT well that’s a good one but I guess I wasn’t clear, I’d meant those tongue kissing shots with the 12 year old “brides”.

  49. “Veda Keate, 19, and her daughter Sereena Keate, 2 … ”

    Good thinking. So a mother at 17, “married” as they call it, probably 16 or younger? Heh, kinda late to call that a typo.

  50. Was that the child and child’s mother that Ray was convicted for a month ago, or a different one?

  51. Yes, there were a lot more as the RCMP has now confirm 9 16 and under and Winston admits to it. I was in touch with Daphne and gave her some information where we had written to the parliament, RCMP and child welfare offices. Put off for years. In fact, the RCMP referred to Winston Blackmore as the THE BISHOP. Hope things have changed but don’t have much trust in Canada as they allowed the trafficking for years even after a court case in the 90s.

  52. veda is a wife to warren. the ones of janet and her daughter are raymond’s victim’s. i’ll dig around and see if i can find you a tongue shot of warren and merrianne.

    veda actually married at 14 and had her daughter at 16. her dad is the one who was just on trial.

  53. presently serreena is 4 and veda is 20.

    janet’s sister leann is the victim of merril leroy who gets his trial after emack. you can see a picture of her at 17 holding her 1 year old daughter sally.

  54. Leeann Jeffs 17, 9 months pregnant and holding a yearling in her arms. http://www.viiphoto.com/detailStory3.php?news_id=767

    Do the math. Which indictee’s victim is she?

  55. Ah we were keying concurrently.

  56. do you think she looks pregnant in that shot? i always did too. i wonder if she does have 2 kids now.

  57. So Veda’s one of Keate’s throwaways, or call it trade / barter items, whatever. FOURTEEN? For this he gets his own planet in their fairytale worldview?

    Which of those babies is Teresa’s, or is it, where is Teresa’s baby?

  58. i don’t know if teresa had a baby or not, but if she didn’t, it wasn’t for a lack of trying. from the trial, remember raymond got sent away to repent. he was living in angelo at the time of the rescue. depending on when he was sent away, there just might not have been enough time, but i’m sure they gave it the old college try.

    and yeah, veda is one of keate’s 3 throwaway daughters. she’s very pretty.

  59. Let’s talk about Emack since he’s next up on the trial calendar. He married Ruleen Johnson when she was 16 and she had the first of her 2 children with him when she was 17. Seems that this underaged wife might have been enticement for him to come to the ranch and be their electrician.

    She’s the daughter of Frank Tilton Johnson who was exed and Lydia Ann Barlow who is currently married to our favorite sleeping bishop, Merril Jessop.

  60. How many wives and children did Mike Emack abandon here and there in North America? Mostly Short Creek but hey. Abandoned means someone else pays to feed, clothe and house them. You know, probably taxpayers in most cases?

  61. Am I mixing Teresas? Who’s the one who had the nerve to bring someone else’s baby for a DNA test to protect some guy from being identified and indicted?

  62. Do I look fat in these pajamas?

    Do I care?

  63. yeah, there are 2 teresa’s close in age and both ended up being teresa jessops.

    teresa jo steed is the one of throwaway baby fame. her baby daddy is nathan carter jessop who just happens to be yet another of merril’s sons. are we seeing a pattern here?

    the other teresa is teresa jeffs, daughter of warren who married raymond jessop on the same day her father married merrianne and ray’s brother leroy married leann.

  64. Emack’s first wife and him had 5 kids. One of those is the thrice married Martha Alice. She’s also the only daughter from that union. With his 2nd wife he had 9 kids, the youngest being born in January 2004 before daddy left home for Texas in August 2004. Next came along 1st wife’s sister who he didn’t have kids with, but had 7 step kids from her previous marriage. That equals 14 biological kids and 7 steppers.

  65. no you don’t look fat in your pjs. and who cares if you do. pjs are for comfort, not fashion.

  66. 26. Mary Ann (Meg) Wall. Daughter of Lloyd Wall. American

    Marianne, the full sister of Elissa? I thought she was married to Winstons brother, and still flds

  67. What truly horrifies me is that NO attempt has been made to even identify the carriers of fumarase deficiency trait so that these people don’t marry each other and give birth to children who live in horrible pain until they die. It is simply immoral.
    And where is the state commissioner of health on this issue ?
    NOWHERE
    What political correctness !!!!!!!!!!!

    ……………..

    Don’t the FLDS believe that when a child is born with fumarase deficiency it is the fault of the mother for her lack of faith, failure to obey?

    Imagine if venereal disease got loose in this community!

  68. there’s teressa who was married to ray blackmore, but she got a divorce and custody of her children.

  69. Elissa Wall’s oldest full sister (I presume that is Marianne) was (and is to the best of my knowledge) married to Winston Blackmore’s brother, MacRae Duane Blackmore.

    My information is that Teressa Wall was married to Roy Blackmore, who is a son of MacRae Duane Blackmore and one of his wives other than Teressa’s sister (anyone know which wife?).

    Teressa Wall, of course, left the FLDS, and is no longer married to Roy Blackmore. During the time of Warren’s trial in Utah, where Teressa tesitified for the prosecution in the evidentiary hearing and at trail, Roy Blackmore filed for custody of their children.

    Teressa was subsequently successful in winning legal custody of their children.

  70. Ohhh…Lordy–so much switching around..makes my head spin.

  71. What can you say? This cant be the United States, or even planet Earth!

  72. GFNY is back!! So glad you’re back, your keyboard is your scimitar. Get ’em girl. Oh and please write us trial prayers. No one writes them as purty as you.

    Thanks to whoever compiled this list. It is sickening. I guess when Willie tried to brush off the ‘child brides’ as being an isolated incident, he was, as usual being a lying-liar.

    Proud, thanks for ferreting out the not so good doctor’s name.
    I was looking for it last night, but got disgusted with the entire thing and had to shut down the computer.

  73. Stamp, I have no idea what that video has to do with anything, but I enjoyed it enormously, thanks!

  74. Stamp is weird. I like that about him.

  75. I got an email from a friend saying that instead of the FLDS being spotlighted in this months National Geographic, we would have a spread on “Ancient Flaming Fireballs in Space”.

    How flippin ironic!

    And I got to thinking, hmmmmm I saw that movie once, and it reminds me of the FLDS!

    Pick out Warren.

    I think he is the short guy with the black helmet.

    played by Rick Moranis.

    May the Schwartz be with you!

  76. I’ve known of this behavior most of my life and it’s only little by little sunk in over the years what they, these Utah polygamists and no doubt others over the 3rd world, are doing to children and women.

    Never mind that they’re clean and combed and shiny, I mean what’s inside, aspirations, abilities, talents, crushed and limited. Slavery has no place in today’s world.

  77. Stamp the “fossil” fireballs that Warren S. Jeffs is expecting won’t be coming from the “National Geographic” article on supernova W49B anytime soon. This supernova has already lost half of it’s temperature into space and is over 35,000 lightyears away. If a fireball from W49B was hurled from that distance it would cool off and reach Earth more like a frozen meteor than fireball. Maybe Warren’s figured out a way to keep something ‘red hot’ and transport it to this world before it turns frozen cold? He could make a fortune keeping pizzas warm before they reach our houses! Maybe the dusty sandals forms a liar of insulation on our gullibility to believe in his fireballs anyway.

    I am with ‘Catwhisperer’ that his balls on fire are artificially induced by viagra and there really aren’t any ‘fossil’ fireballs other than the ones carried by Priesthood men over fifty.

    “May the Schwartz be with You” Priesthood perpetrators safe within your cell blocks.

  78. Left off of the list is the names of the parents who gave their underage daughters off to be married. I’m thinking that needs to be discussed also.

    First and foremost is Sally Wayman Jeffs Nielsen who has 3 daughters she allowed to be married underage.

    Janet was first given to Ernest Jessop and had a child with him who was named Spiritual Unity. Ernest was exed and while she was still underage, Janet was assigned to Raymond Jessop, Ernie’s brother and she and Ernie had a daughter named Zionna Joy. At present Ray is in jail and Ernie is back in. Wonder if Janet will be re-reassigned back to Ernie.

    Next up in order of age is Pamela who was married underage to Jackson Merril Jessop. She and Jack have 2 sons, the first of which, Matthew was born while she ws underage. The 2nd, Jonathan was born during the rescue.

    Then along came LeAnn who was married off to Merril Leroy Jessop while she was underage. She had Sally and if you look at Stephanie Sinclair’s photos, she appears to be pregnant again and she’s still not 18.

    As for Leroy Steed Jeffs, the father of the above girls, he was around for Janet’s first marriage, but then got himself exed by his little brother Warren, so Sally was reassigned to Wendell who then was the priesthood head who approved the marriages of LeAnn, Pamela and Janet’s reassignment.

  79. I have coordinated a campaign to Stop Polygamy in Canada for six years. The pictures circulated re Warren Jeffs kissing his 12-year-old brides are abhorrent and disgusting. Polygamy has no place in a civil society. International conventions such as the Convention to Eliminate all Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW) and the Convention on the Rights of the Child plus numerous other conventions are in place to protect the human rights of women and children. The practice of polygamy is a federal crime both in the U.S. and Canada. That it is practiced with impunity in both countries is an insult to and financial burden on society. Religious law must not trump civil law.

    Nancy Mereska, Coordinator

    Stop Polygamy in Canada

  80. GREAT to hear from you, Nancy! Keep up the good work. It looks, from Texas, like Canada threw in the towel. Glad to know that not everybody up there has.

  81. International conventions such as the Convention to Eliminate all Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW) and the Convention on the Rights of the Child plus numerous other conventions are in place to protect the human rights of women and children. The practice of polygamy is a federal crime both in the U.S. and Canada. That it is practiced with impunity in both countries is an insult to and financial burden on society. Religious law must not trump civil law.

    ………………………………

    Well come ON . . . CEDAW only applies to OTHER countries, like in Africa and the Middle East, not to the USA and Canada.

  82. Back to Leroy Jeffs. He and Sally have 15 children. The youngest 6 are still with Sally, apparently with Wendell Nielsen as their priesthood head. Hopefully ReNae, SaRoya and LeeSa Jeffs have been spared being child brides, But let’s not forget that LeRoy had 22 wives, not just one.

    He was married to Margaret Ida Jessop, aka Maggie who is the daughter of Merril and Fonetta Jessop. They had 8 children, with only the last 2 being girls and they are 10 and 8. Currently Maggie is married to Wendell.

    LeRoy married Adeline Barlow and they had 4 children, 2 daughters who are aged 16 and 12. Hopefully those 2 girls have been spared being child brides. I guess its a good thing that Dellea is a niece of Warren’s since he seems to like 12 year olds. Although being related hasn’t stopped him previously, Adeline is currently married to Wendell.

    More to come on Leroy!!!

  83. Keep an eye out for ‘Balls o Fire’ when the Canadian Supreme Court makes it’s ruling on the legality of anti-polygamy and bigamy laws. Trafficking American and Canadian female girls across the International Border in order to preserve and perpetuate this heinous form of unlawful sexual assault needs both countries citizenry to cry out in protest. Legal observance of both countries mutual laws is paramount and unquestionably the priority on these issues. Legal prosecution against feigned persecution is prerequisite.

  84. Concur Nancy – let’s hope for the best in the Canadian case, and let’s fight to keep polygamy illegal, for the sake of women and children

  85. Brooke has posted the results of Rozita’s day in court. The sound you hear is Hugh’s head exploding.

  86. The Neutered Pharisee Phlipped out, no doubt!

  87. I’m back, but barely—was sick for a long time, and now am trying to grasp onto my real life.

    This morning an MD friend mailed me reams of information about sexual deviance and pedophilia, which I dutifully read. A few things I noted:

    1. Sexual responsiveness wanes with age for men, regardless of their sexual preferences and deviancies. Ergo, a 55-year-old man who is bopping young girls every night is likely to be using Viagra;

    2. In a study of Viagra and HIV, only 44% of the Viagra was legally obtained (all you people who believe in decriminalization—of anything—ought to look very, very hard at that figure);

    3. Doctors are not going to limit prescriptions to Viagra unless there is legislation telling them that they must so do. They see their ethical and moral responsibility as to their patient, not to society as a whole.

    4. Sex offenders are not inherently psychopathic.* They have developed distorted thinking processes that they are not harming children, and that their behavior is based on virtues such as love. (Many of them believe that by initiating children into sex they are actually protecting them from future potential abusers.)

    BTW, Katch, I agree totally about pedophilia not being specific to the FLDS. It is one of the moral problems of polygamy in general (sadly, not the only one). We find pedophilia as far back as Joseph Smith.

    *I think WSJ is a psychopath; not because of his pedophilia, but because of his leadership style.

  88. Sending prayers up for you GFNY! You just have to get well, this board simply must have access to your wit and wisdom.

    That said, many years ago I had the distinct displeasure of riding herd over a group of sexual sociopaths. I believe WSJ and his ilk are sociopaths. Their desire is for power and they lack normal human feelings of empathy. Those two things together are a recipe for disaster when turned loose on a civilized society.

  89. What is happening with Rozita’s trial?

  90. I have learned that technically speaking, the FLDS practice hebephilia, not pedophilia.
    Hebephilia is the desire to have sex with a pubescent individual.

  91. Cat,

    I read in the LA Times in an article entitled:

    “Lawyer: Colorado woman not suspected of any crime in calls that triggered Texas polygamy raid”

    That Texas authorities don’t believe she had any “criminal involvement.”

    I have no idea what it means. The article is kind of thin. It says she won’t face charges.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-us-polygamist-retreat-colorado,0,5147757.story

  92. I believe you would have to take Brett Jeffs and other young boys allegations into consideration.

  93. Rozita’s trial will not be conducted, she has agreed to a plea that involves her previous charge back in Castle Rock, CO and the mainly circumstantial evidence against her was dicey for the Asst. DA to pursue into trial, ergo a plea was proffered at the Courtroom doors. Rozita will not serve any jail time and her pending case has been dismissed. This does not redress the Texas AG’s Office investigation into her ‘person of interest’ status up to today. She has been put through an ungodly amount of scrutiny because of ties to the YFZ Ranch investigations, hopefully her future will be free of continued concerns in that arena and she stays fully co-operative with LE in their resolution of any/all of these criminal matters.

  94. I think all it means is that Texas is not interested in prosecuting her, reason not specified.

  95. ” Ergo, a 55-year-old man who is bopping young girls every night is likely to be using Viagra;”

    TMI Warning….

    Maybe I’m blessed. But I am quite sure that unless he was very ill, or working so hard that he did not have enough sleep, my hubby could perform this service once a day, every day, 365 days a year and he’s 58. More than once a day might might be a bit of a strain, but he has been known to accomplish that within recent memory while well rested/on vacation. I’m not saying that he would actually be interested enough to suggest it himself but if he had a willing and healthy partner urging him on, he could definitely rise to the occasion. I’m really sorry for all of you who seem so sure that this is impossible.

    He splits wood, too.

    But seriously, why do we care about viagra?

  96. Speaking of Child Brides

    Judge orders $500,000 award to EACH of Tony Alamo’s victims.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,582970,00.html

    U.S. District Judge Harry F. Barnes ordered restitution after a government witness said the women suffered physical and mental pain at Alamo’s hands. Prosecutors said they were confident Alamo could afford the $2.5 million judgment even though most of his assets are held in his followers’ names.

  97. More TMI.

    Input from my hubby. He said “I strongly suspect that servicing one 55 year old woman once a day is more work than one 16 year old. The older woman is harder to start, has higher expectations and is not as easily impressed.

  98. really?

  99. I’m just hollering out loud. Especially since I know you. SNARK!

  100. You’re welcome.

  101. back to ole Leroy.

    He had 22 wives at the height of his priesthood. After he was exed, they were divided up among 7 men.

    Wendell Nielsen got 6
    Nephi Jeffs got 5
    Jerald Williams got 2
    Seth Jeffs got 4
    Isaac Jeffs got 2
    Leroy J. Steed got 1
    Allan Keate got 2, one of which is the one he is going to the bighouse about.

  102. Pardon me while I go barf.

  103. The age or arousability of the victim is irrelevant in sexual assault, whether coercive or through brute force. All that is necessary is that the perpetrator can rise to the occasion.

    I believe Viagra will be found to be a player in modern sexual assault, particularly pedophilia. Just as it has a close relationship to drug use and transmission of HIV. (It isn’t traded illegally for no reason.) And has been used to manipulate foreign policy:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/25/AR2008122500931.html

    I’ve not found a single study that linked Viagra directly to sexual assault; nor have I found any that ruled my theory out. I did, however, read a case study where a twice-convicted sexual abuser asked his doctor for Viagra; the case study dealt with the ethics rather than the frequency of such requests.

    I have read studies that show that testosterone-inhibition does cut sex-crime recidivism, whether through chemical or physical castration. But of course that isn’t precisely the same thing.

  104. It is not the same thing at all, not even close. I would completely agree that any of the prescription male hormone products effect both sexual response and aggrssion. But I think you are barking up the wrong tree with Viagra as it is not hormone related at all.

    Viagra works by affecting blood flow, more specifically it counteracts the effects of naturally occurring enzymes which block blood flow to the penis. It has no effect upon desire, only upon the mechanics of the operation. That is why it is sometimes dangerous for men who have circulatory and heart problems; ironically these are also the men who are most likely to need it’s assistance.

  105. But sex crimes are not about sex, they’re about power. I agree with GFNY — the viagra enables the weapon.

  106. The only way that Viagra can be a ‘player’ in sexual assault is by increasing the life span and perhaps the frequency of the offender. It comes as no surprise to me that people who would buy bootleg Viagra would also have unprotected sex with risky partners.

  107. I think we are talking tiny percentages in the general population. I don’t really like the idea of paying for Viagra through federal or state funding for anyone.

    ( Do we buy them beer and mood music next?)

    But, I’m having trouble getting worked up about it.

  108. Not all forms of sex crimes are about power, although almost all violent rapes are. An unethical lack of concern for the victim is not the same thing as wanting to control the victim or cause them fear or pain. Having sex with a consenting 16 year old may very well have nothing to do with power, but more to do with a lack of respect for the law and ignorance or lack of concern about the impact of the act on the victim. Many pedophiles believe that they are helping the child victims or showing extraordinary love for them.

  109. “4. Sex offenders are not inherently psychopathic.* They have developed distorted thinking processes that they are not harming children, and that their behavior is based on virtues such as love. (Many of them believe that by initiating children into sex they are actually protecting them from future potential abusers.)”

    I actually read examples of this for myself. A link to a pedophile message board was included in an article about pedophilia and I, being the terminally curious person I am, followed it and lurked. The level of self-deception there was frightening. Men were talking about 5 year old boys flirting with them — not innocently as children do, but sexually. Reading their words made my mind feel dirty for months.

  110. lol, Betty, I like your husband a lot. 😀

  111. He’s a keeper.

  112. Betty you remind me of Warrens words on this very subject of sex with minors,” I say, in the name of the Lord, there is no underage marriage in a priesthood marriage, in celestial marriage. God has the right to rule. The Lord had me take these two underage girls on purpose, to show that I and we, this people, are with Him, with God, not fearing man”, WS Jeffs, 2003

    Dumbfounding to justify sexual assault as in obedience to the Almighty and ‘on purpose’ as an act of worship. This fanatical brand or faith endorses rape and likens it to fulfillment of His commandments. How do we redress this form of ,”Religious Freedom”?

  113. Lock them up and throw away the key.

  114. Works for me.

    I really think this is one very successful cult. Breaking up the upper echelon is the only way to loosen the grip on people’s minds. Shining the light of factual evidence where there was darkness and secrecy will work; slowly perhaps, but it will work.

    There’s a poster on Brooke’s blog named “Freethinker” (not). He posted that the current economic crisis started the day that Jeffs was incarcerated and will continue until he is released. This kind of magical thinking is so completely nonlogical that it is a waste of time to rebut it.

  115. Two underage? Two pages? What?

  116. Gotta love that spouse of Betty’s. Bet he’ll do the dishes, too. 😉

  117. Only the machine wash and storing leftovers. I do the hand wash and wipe the counters. But then, I’m a really messy cook and don’t clean up as I go, so it’s only fair.

  118. i remember reading that dictation cajim, i’m trying to remember which 2 girls he was talking about.

  119. Proud Texan I don’t have which two rape victims he was referring to but it was back in 2003. Just while he was starting up this Holy War of his.

    Betty your spotlight and focus on these issues is like a laser, awesome!

  120. Thanks, caljim.

    And I finally got my club chapter’s year end financial report to balance, so I think it’s time for me to shut the computer down and have a glass of wine.

  121. “This kind of magical thinking is so completely nonlogical that it is a waste of time to rebut it.”

    And yet I did. I guess I’m pretty hopeless. 😉

  122. I don’t see any of Mike Emack’s children on that spreadsheet, married. I’d say he was old enough to have some. Where are they, I have to wonder unless they were all boys?

  123. emack had 4 boys and 1 daughter with his first wife. the daughter was discussed earlier about already having been assigned to 3 different men and he has a stepdaughter who married at 17. that’s all i know of for him.

  124. GNFY, it is SO good to see you posting again. I really missed you. Sorry you’ve been sick. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.

    Nancy, thanks for posting and for the tireless work you do for Stop Polygamy in Canada. I’m glad your organization will be participating in the upcoming hearing on the constitutionality of anti-polygamy laws.

  125. Two of Emack sons from his first marriage have left the FLDS, he actually went to see them weekend before last in Beaver, Utah. The underage bride he is facing charges over was with him.

  126. Sounds like Emack knows he’s going down, I suppose he needed permission from the court to leave the state like that.

  127. I’ve thought about this in the back of my mind since last night. Most of the crimes on this list I do not see as a literal, violent rape of force. I see it as a relatively slow erosion of helthy boundaries. For instance, the step daughters “married” to step fathers. The group promotes the patriarchal idea that the step father “owns” his family and he watches the girl develop from child into woman. He slowly changes her interactions with him until she is in his bed with only a few tears. Then self preservation and nature takes it’s course.

    The real problem is in the gray matter, not the pink matter.

  128. Tracy, are you sure about the underage bride being with him? Part of his bail conditions is he is not to be anywhere near the alleged victim. As one of his sons that left the cult is now a police officer I would think that he would be duty bound to report his fathers bail violation if his father came to visit him with victim in tow.

  129. I am totally sure

  130. You mean that even while facing prison he flaunts the law? Not terribly surprising.

  131. There’s a poster on Brooke’s blog named “Freethinker” (not). He posted that the current economic crisis started the day that Jeffs was incarcerated and will continue until he is released

    ……………………………..

    I think a couple of those posters supporting the FLDS are off their rockers.

  132. I’d like to read/hear/see those pointed defiances of our laws brought out in court.

  133. That’s really wry, isn’t it, poor cluefree ignorant brain-dead brainwashed FLDS calling itself “freethinker”.

  134. Yes, OftenLate, I thought that myself when I read his/her comment. Why is it that so many closeminded people claim to be “free thinkers”? Are they trying to fool us or themselves?

  135. so emack was in beaver creek huh? getting a little before he has to spent 33 yrs in prison?

  136. Good interpretation, Dawg. I expect you’re right.

  137. Pratt was saying Rulon Clarke Allreds on the list. He was marrying Ethel Jessop when she was REAL young, but she she was marrying him the night before he went off to jail. She said she got married in her dressing gown cus he came late, and then he went off straight after. Im not knowing how long he was in jail. I didnt know Ruth Barlow was so young and Im not knowing if he went off to jail when he got married to her to. Anyways, he wasnt FLDS later cus he was starting AUB and AUB wasnt liking child brides. Pratt says you might like to know that.

  138. Rebeckah that unfortunate soul believes him/herself to actually be “freethinking”.

  139. i wonder if emack wasn’t taking his wife up to utah for her to live there with their 2 kids while he’s in prison. he didn’t have any other wives at the yfz for her to be with. her father has been exed and her mother is married to merril, so who knows if she is at the yfz or a house in hiding.

  140. hmmm…could be that he took his young wife to Utah and also to see his sons before he is sent away. But–I am still wondering if he had permission to do this?

  141. Re: freethinker. One of my friends jokes that he is a ‘slave to fashion’, because if he owned a piece of clothing and it suddenly became fashionable, he’d throw it away. It’s really hard to have an original idea and most “rebels” are just joining a much smaller club than the one they are rebelling against.

  142. To true, Betty. I, on the other hand, am a free thinker in the respect that I don’t much care about other people’s opinions. I don’t like to be rude (although I know I sometimes am — I just work on it) but I don’t follow “groupthink” well at all. I often wonder how I would have turned out in a cult like this. On one hand, when I was young and silly I wanted 12 or more children, on the other hand, I am NOT a social person.

  143. I’ve wondered the same thing. I don’t know how much of me is the script I got from my parents. There’s lots of stubborn independence on all sides of my family tree – no way for me to tell what’s genetic and what’s education.

    But that leads me to a random thought I had the other day. I wonder how much of the FLDS problem is that they’ve genetically selected malleable people; the freethinkers started leaving 170 years ago and do so to some extent every generation since.

    I was also reading about sociopaths. Estimates on the prevalance is between 2 and 4 % of the average population. But what if you genetically selected for that by tolerating them, even making them Gods of their own families? Could you shift that ratio to, say, 20% in 170 years?

  144. I never wanted 12 children. At one point in my life I very desperately wanted one or two of my own making, but I found that you can be quite happy even if you don’t get what you think you want.

  145. Well, even as a silly 16 year old what I wanted was 6 of my own and 6 adopted. 😉

    Perhaps one day I can have my theraputic ranch for children. It’s been a dream of mine for forever but not likely to come to pass at this point in my life.

  146. Oh, and I must say, Betty, that the two that I ended up with were completely satisfying. I’m happy with my life, even if it wasn’t what my silly 16 year old self thought I wanted. 🙂

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