Final Order in Merrianne’s Case

jeffs kiss3

Judge Walther signed a final order in Merrianne Jessop’s CPS custody case today, ending the case. Naomi Carlisle, with whom Merrianne has been living, is appointed sole managing conservator and Merril and Barbara are possessory conservators, meaning they have a right to visitation. The amount of visitiation is to be determined by Naomi. Apparently this was an agreed order that was negotiated and approved by all parties. There will be no trial. No further details on the terms of the order at this time.

More here:

Best of luck to Merrianne Jessop and everyone involved in her life.


~ by FLDS TEXAS on July 23, 2009.

107 Responses to “Final Order in Merrianne’s Case”

  1. I too feel sorry for the girl, given the parents, environment, and life she’s had to live. I hope she can overcome.

  2. I looked one more time at the ‘wedding photos’ of 12-year-old Merrianne and Warren Steed Jeffs. Photos which would never have been seen if it weren’t for the raid on the ranch.

  3. Well since Naomi is FLDS, she will need all the luck she can get

  4. Final dates on charges related to sexual abuse of children, bigamy and other charges have been set for 10 men from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

    Attorneys for the defendants and the state ironed out the dates today during a status conference in the Tom Green County Courthouse. The schedule of trials runs to the end of next year.

    Dates for Raymond Merril Jessop had already been set — a pretrial hearing Aug. 10 and a trial Oct. 26 on sexual abuse of a child charges.

    At the beginning of the conference, 51st District Judge Barbara Walther left the room for about 20 minutes, leaving the lawyers huddled over a schedule sheet to set proposed hearing schedules among themselves.

    The final schedule approved by the judge is as follows with the defendants, pretrial date, trial date and charges:

    Allan Eugene Keate, Nov. 19, Dec. 7, sexual abuse of a child.

    Michael Emack, Jan. 7, 2010, Jan. 25, 2010, sexual abuse of a child.

    Merrill Leroy Jessop, Feb. 25, 2010, March 8, 2010, sexual abuse of a child and bigamy.

    Lehi Barlow Jeffs, April 15, 2010, April 26, 2010, sexual abuse of a child and bigamy.

    Abram Harker Jeffs, May 13, 2010, June 7, 2010, sexual abuse of a child and bigamy.

    Keith William Dutson, July 15, 2010, July 26, 2010, sexual abuse of a child.

    Wendell Loy Neilson, Sept. 2, 2010, Sept. 7, 2010, three counts of bigamy.

    Frederick Merril Jessop, Oct. 4, 2010, Oct. 11, 2010, conducting an unlawful marriage ceremony involving a minor.

    Leroy Johnson Steed, Nov. 23, 2010, Dec. 6, 2010, first-degree felony sexual assault of a child, second-degree felony bigamy, third-degree felony bigamy and third-degree felony tampering with physical evidence.

  5. Does this mean she is still spiritually married to Warren?

    LOL but seriously, he is in prison forever, she will be an old maid when he dies in prison. What a pity. Perhaps Naomi has some anti-christ fairy dust to sprinkle on her and release her from that nonsense.

  6. And where are Naomi Carlisle’s sons? Still living with a relative?

  7. Had the girl given ANY indication whatsoever she had been abused, she would not be given back. This is a face saving compromise where the state appears to have exacted some sort of beneficial change for the kid, but in reality, they’ve been utterly spanked because NO ONE WANTED THEM INVOLVED. 15 year old included.

  8. Thank goodness Hugh is not in charge of making the laws or seeing to the safety of children. It’s also a good thing that a child’s welfare at 12, 13, 14 years old does not depend upon what the child wants. I doubt any child would get an education or have medical check ups or immunizations, etc. One or two might even be persuaded to think that they want to enter into a marriage and sexual relationship with someone their grandfather’s age.

  9. ^^ My comment should not be read to mean that I think CPS is a well run organization that operates properly in most instances. I don’t. In this case, they should have protected her more, they should have done more for her. Other cases, they overreact and don’t do enough to keep families together. CPS can be counted on to do the wrong thing most of the time. My opinion only.

  10. Geez, Hugh, why don’t you go get laid!!! Might do your mind good! That is ifyou can still get it up!!

  11. OH, I forgot Hugh, your waiting for Polygamy to be overturned so you to can have an underaged bride.

  12. That picture is just sickening!! to me! She was just a little girl!

  13. She just barely comes to his waist!!!!! And the Asshole parents SHE has let that happen!!

  14. Ok …DD…I know you’re outraged, as you should be, but let’s watch the insults and language please.

  15. :slappin self in head: gotcha!

  16. since MJ is married to the profit, you know she won’t be reassigned…so, basically, she IS safe (no more sex with nasty old man)…chew on that

  17. Well Warren has to die someday humored,,,Merrianne is just 15

  18. Lets do the math , Warren is what 53? Merrianne is 15 , 35yrs of age difference. So when she is 25 , he will be 63… or dead, one or the other, lol

  19. Or sitting in a prison cell, drooling

  20. Deputydog1,

    would you mind shooting me an email if you have an opportunity?



  21. You people are so amusing.

  22. Hugh I apologize

  23. Right back atcha Hugh.

  24. Hugh

    OH REALLY???? And I thought YOUR site was where one could find the BOZO prophesies!

    But I will say Bull M has you topped. The guy is wound really really tight. Compared to him, you are almost sane.

  25. And talking about guys wound too tight, whatcha think Hugh, Tony gonna get life?

    He deserves Gitmo IMHO, but perhaps they will cluster these nutters, so Jeffs Alamo and Hawkins can all gangbang together, compare notes, ya know!

    “DUH – UH, What are YOU in for?”

  26. We could call them the cluster nut gang, LOL

  27. Put them all in the same cell and call um butt buddies. Rofl

  28. Frankly folks, if you think the evidence can survive when there is no longer any tangible evidence that there was ever a threat to children at YFZ (all the kids are removed from court supervision), then you’re just waiting for a big disappointment someday. Tomorrow. 10 years from now in the United States Supreme Court, Someday.

  29. Hugh, Im not worried, and want be disappointed, I believe the 12 men will be found guilty , sent to jail. I also believe the Trust is going down the tubes.
    Maybe some will wake up and realize they actually can think for themself without having some off the wall meglamanic do it for them. Maybe they will take their wives and children and start a new life, support them, and be REAL families, instead of robots.

  30. There is NO room, nor need for a Theocracy in America Hugh, get used to it.

  31. I’m not worried in the least. Police are allowed to enforce the law when they see evidence of crimes right in front of them. That will never change. And if you weren’t aware, Hugh, the trend in the Supreme Court has been to chip away at the exclusionary rule rather than expand it. Stick to what you know, and leave the heavy lifting for those more capable.

    The evidence will not be suppressed.

  32. FLDS Texas, no one has demonstrated that anyone “Saw evidence of crimes right in front of them.” Maybe that will be demonstrated, but I haven’t seen that done yet.

    It looks now as if Walther is set to rule against the Motion to Suppress in that she’s set trial dates. Sokay. We’ll see how that plays out.

    Deputy, I am foursquare against theocracies. I am for religious freedom.

    Back to you FLDS Texas, you’re actually IN FAVOR of chipping away at exclusion?

  33. So, assuming someone saw Theresa Steed waddling around with her pregnant belly, there was NO evidence of a crime? Ummm, is the sky blue in your world, Hugh?

  34. Who said that saw that? Since when is pregnancy evidence of a crime?

  35. LOL, rather, WHO said that THEY saw that….

  36. Since Merrianne is only ‘spiritually'[or whatever it’s called] wed to this child molester, when she is old enough, say over 18 and after a little schooling, she can find herself a real man who will ove and care for her as an EQUAL. She won’t have to be a prayer spouting, baby making, life of servitude wife to anyone!

  37. Hugh yes they have. And there was a four day hearing about it.

  38. So WHO saw her? You know I’ve asked that question of a bunch of people and all I get is “you’re an idiot” “you’re stupid” “you’re a nut” and so on, but no name.

    Next I’m going to ask you for the Testimony or affidavit that says they ssw that, and NEXT I’m going to ask how that represents a crime.

  39. “Who said that saw that?”

    No one, that I know of, has claimed specifically to have seen 16 year old pregnant Theresa. However they were interviewing the teen girls looking for Sarah and it is reasonable to assume that Theresa was one of the young looking females they saw pregnant. And since she was under the age of consent and she WAS pregnant, there was clearly something shady going on. Coupled with the decades long accusations of underage marriages, it was perfectly reasonable to suspect the law was broken. (As it, indeed, was.)

    “Since when is pregnancy evidence of a crime?”

    When it is an underage girl in a secrative group of people with a known history of violating the laws of consent. Granted, it isn’t “proof” of a crime, as Theresa could have gotten pregnant by some teen boy on the compound. However her actions in protecting the man claiming to be her husband, who is older than her by a good 30 years and, (I think) “married” to other women, then you’ve got a bona fide crime on your hands. I’m sure you know that, but you have a hard time separating your interpretation of “sin” from the legal interpretation of “crimes”.

  40. Y’all need to read the search warrants and probable cause affidavits.

  41. Thanks for posting the picture, FLDS Texas. I needed to see it to remember that Merrianne wasn’t always a snarky teenager; she was once a little girl handed over to an abuser and taught to believe it was an honor.

    I’m trying to haul my better self forward to pray for these men as the court process starts, but it isn’t easy.

  42. Me to GFNY, since it seems their is no one really in charge. Just a bunch of odd wad men running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Not one wants to take responsibilty!

  43. Rebeckah,

    You said:

    “No one, that I know of, has claimed specifically to have seen 16 year old pregnant Theresa.”

    You see, when it comes to probable cause, eventually someone is going to have to say that they did. You just can’t keep searching every house in a neighborhood until you find something someone did wrong, it’s called a “dragnet.”

  44. So….. Why doesnt the FLDS hire Mr Hugh McBryde as their atty, they should, Goldstone isnt worth the 850,000 they spent for their MTS.

    Lets spend two years convicting them, then they can spend as much money as they want appealing it.

    In the end they will STILL end up like Warren and Tony.

  45. Hugh, read the search warrants and probable cause affidavits. There are several names listed and the suspected crimes and everything that led to the second warrant. Remember CPS was there with a court order also, investigating a report of child abuse. Remember also that by law CPS and law enforcement are to conduct a joint investigation.


    Careful now, Hugh isnt used to getting “Ambushed by facts”.!!

  47. Cps investigators saw underage girls pregnant hugh. Two or three babies were born, one while in cps custody, but she was found to be legally over 18. Theresa Steed in June and they took samples of DNA from one of the Keate babies. There were Two or Three girls who were 17 who already had children.

  48. The magic theory is:

    young girl + Pregnancy + DNA evidence = proof of crime

  49. Had the girl given ANY indication whatsoever she had been abused, she would not be given back.

    Well, except she wasn’t given back. Neither parent was named managing conservator. She was given to an aunt who isn’t FLDS. However, don’t let that fact stop you Hugh.

  50. Here’s another equation for Hugh:

    Underage pregnant girl + Elissa Wall = Probable cause

  51. The mere FACT that an “underage” girl is only underage if certain legal facts have been ascertained is proof there is no such thing as merely “seeing” a “pregnant underage teen.” A legally married girl of any age is no longer “underage.” Since you don’t have your marital status tattooed on your forehead, the unlikelihood of a young teen being emancipated may be low, but it is still real. Therefore “pregnant underage teen” (which is a bit redundant) is not apprehended by the eye.

    “Read the Warrants” is always the noise you people come up with. Well, to be able to laugh at or rebut me, you would have to know the NAME of this person who allegedly “Eyeballed” Ms. Steed. I await hearing that name, from you, patiently. Otherwise I see no point in “reading the warrants,” again.

  52. Hugh

    You dont have to read the Warrants, just wait, and read the convictions.

    Say, Tony Alamo getting his today! Soon perhaps!

    Aint that right?

  53. Hugh, probable cause isn’t “proof”, it’s probable cause. A young looking adult who is pregnant is “probable cause” in this instance since it was already known that a) the FLDS are perfectly happy to “Lie for the Lord” and their unsupported word cannot be trusted, b) that they HAVE had a practice of marrying of 13, 14, and 15 year old girls and c) that HAVE NOT been doing so under the provisions available by the law. You keep wanting someone to have seen an actual crime in the act and that just isn’t the way the law works. All that is needed is a reasonable suspicion that there were crimes being committed. They found that during the interviews and acted accordingly. I too am dismayed that the children were simply sent back to their parents because of one higher court result without further investigation. Theresa Steed would be a prime example. WHY was she released when it was clear that sexual abuse had occured?

  54. I don’t think a belief that some people “Lie for the Lord” can be shown to be contributory to “Probable Cause.” Profiling a person for religious belief and then assuming no legal marriage has occurred is not “Probable Cause” either.

    The point is, seeing a “pregnant teen” of any age is not probable cause. It might be how Walther sees it, but it will not survive that way. Continuing to build one investigation on another investigation on another investigation all of which had no probable cause eventually amounts to illegal search and seizure and depriving a person of due process, no matter WHAT you find.

  55. Balony, Hugh. Profiling happens all of the time. My son has been profiled a ton of times simply because he’s hispanic. Please feel free to join us in the real world.

    And yes, in this instance a teen child IS probable cause. Since the clean living and whatever else of the FLDS have made a lot of the women look much younger, even a pregnant adult could be “probable cause”. It doesn’t matter what you WANT the law to be, it is what it is.

  56. Hugh

    Your mental legal manuevers dont work here, they dont work in court, they dont work with your Church.

    Hows that going, BTW? It seems you choose your “Polygamy Principles” over your church, as your site is still up and limping along.

    Point being, you have your mind made up, and thats OK by me, just keep it legal.

    IRT these perps like FLDS and Alamo, they are going to prison, and its a good thing. They molest children. Tehre is evidence of that and it was taken lawfully.

    You might whine and wring your hands, but at the end of the day, you will see more and more molesters facing trial.

  57. Rebeckah,

    I don’t know if you have ever noticed the special effect the required dress code for FLDS women has.

    If you look at it, the dress hides all an adult female’s curves, making an older woman look infantile and “little girlish”, while it makes the younger girls actually look more “grown up”.

    A nuance, yes, something only a molester would normally notice.

    Look closer.

  58. I have actually noticed that. Combined with the lack of makcup and good skin, there’s no wonder people thought grown women were children. 😉

  59. They want them to look older, so the public won’t notice how young they really are.

    Probably harder (in their way of thinking) to molest a young girl in a “Hello Kitty” T’shirt or the Disney Princess collection, so they put them in a pleated dress, hair pulled back and no makeup.

    It’s something only a “molester” would enforce.

  60. Well if Hugh had read the affidavits then he would know this little bit:

    Janet Jeffs Jessop – DOB 9/16/1988

    Oldest daughter: Spiritual Unity Jessop – DOB 8/12/2004

    Which means – her first child was born while she was still 15. Date of conception would have been about 2 months after her 15th birthday.

    Geez, those pesky facts keep getting in the way, don’t they Hugh?

  61. Hugh, can you tell me the difference between a secular ADULT male having sex with a 12yr old and an FLDS ADULT male having sex with a 12yr old girl???

  62. Warren Jeffs married “Loretta” at 12yrs old and she had her first child at 13. If some secular dip shit did that, he would be sitting in jail, just like warren.

  63. If you read the criminal statutes in Texas on bigamy, you will see that ALLLL those MEN should have been prosecuted, and I still don’t know why they weren’t.

  64. Hugh, if you dint understand probable cause, that’s nobody else’s problem but yours. I’m not going to dig up the warrants again to provide information that you can gather yourself. Within the four corners, there is probable cause. Even the defense was not disputing this. A warrant is the beginning of an investigation, not the culmination after each element can be proved. It takes little more than a suspicion to reach the threshhold for probable cause. It is asinine that you cannot understand that law enforcement does not have to do a full investigation of each element of an offense before getting a warrant. That’s why it’s called probable cause and not absolute cause. The warrants and affidavits are posted on this site. Read them. Teresa Steed is in fact mentioned by name as are many other girls. Including Pamela Jeffs and and others.

    The defense paid a million bucks to challenge those warrants; I’m pretty sure they would have raised the issue if there was any way in hell they could argue that there is no probable cause on the face of the warrants.

  65. Oh! Oh! I know DD!!!! Pick me! Pick me!

    The FLDS guy having sex with the 12 year old is OK since God say it is. That heathen secularist is forbidden from enjoying God’s fruits which Hugh says are ripe with menses.

    Besides the secularist can’t find some religious wacko willing to waive his hands and say that he married the 12 year old. The FLDS guy can.

  66. Ya Got it Ron!!! lol



  69. Hugh

    “At this point I should assure every reader, friend, foe, casual acquaintance or anonymous, that I don’t see it is likely that I will repudiate my position.

    It is somewhat more likely that I will accept the authority of the church and not speak about my views, this may involve some compromise. It is far more likely that I will continue in some way.

    I suppose it’s possible that I could pull a Palin and walk away without any clear plan.

    July 19Th is the slated date for this discussion, I’ll let you know more at then, which may just be something along the lines of “discussions are ongoing.”

    God does not need me in particular to do anything. ”


    Reading between the lines here, as the deadline passed, you havent made the situation clear, and your Plyg site is still up.

    I see it as choosing your website and warped views over your wife and your weird life, and that is to be pitied.

    She seems like a wonderful woman. And those arent a dime a dozen. C’mon, admit it, she has given you so much rope you finally hung yourself with it.


  71. Stamps post of Pharisee’s words in his Vermont Polygamy blog show what an intellectually dishonest person Pharisee really is.

    The church is clear: “abandon your erroneous doctrine regarding polygyny.” To which he weasels around and says “I don’t see it is likely that I will repudiate my position” but then says “It is somewhat more likely that I will accept the authority of the church” (which is a lie since they told him to abandon his erroneous doctrine).

  72. Well that’s a relief. He won’t be hurting any more little girls. Maybe now his victims can begin to heal.

    And yes, Pharisee wiggles like a worm. I found it amusing that he has a link to a polygamy site about a woman with two husbands when his “lobby” for polygamy quite clearly stated that he wouldn’t consider going to court for such an arangement. But, hey, I’m sure THEY think Hugh is a sweetheart.

  73. Suffice it to say, you folks haven’t seen all that is going on with my church and have misconstrued some of the things posted at Vermont Polygamy. It is because I do not wish to identify that church, as of yet, that I have not given all the details at Vermont Polygamy. You’ll note though, that blogging at that site has fallen off markedly and so has my overt advocacy of polygyny. It’s an effort to not cause trouble while a resolution is sought. If there isn’t one, you can of course, read all about it. Then.

    Unless I missed it, no one named the person who was witness to the “pregnant underage girl.” Since that has not been offered, I have to assume there is no such person.

  74. Hugh, Perhaps ALL of them saw it! Who cares?

    Goldstones failed, polygamists wailed!

    IRT your “Church” , you dont seema beleiver anyway, just trying to please the wife, thats my take. Its ssooooo obvious you would rather spend time putting guys like Warren and Tony on your shoulders than supporting your family in a husband and fatherlike manner – its a sad car wreck we see.

    Not as bad as the FLDS train wreck, but a wreck all the same.

    Hey! BTW, Tony is gonna appeal, and try for a longer sentence!

    He got slam dunked on every count, and without remorse, the judge will likely sentence him close to the maximum, effectively, LIFE IN PRISON + FINES.

    He is ruined.

  75. Well, who has a list of all the CPS workers, LE, and anyone else that was there at the ranch that viewed the pregnant girls?

    I mean, is that it, Hugh? That’s your argument? That we don’t produce the name so the crime never happened?

    I tell you what, I want you to click over the Utah AG’s internet website and tell Mark that you and he are going to participate in a Q & A with everyone here on the board.

    Since he hopped into bed with them, and you continue to defend them, I am sure you will get along GREAT and it might be very informative for both of you.

    Please remind Mark that when he stood on the court building steps and told the “Lost boys” that the American flag flew for them, he really meant WHILE HE WAS STANDING THERE, the flag flew for them.

    Come on Hugh, it’ll be fun. You can even invite Duane. Let’s have a debate. You and Mark can practice your “overt advocacy of polygamy”

  76. Now that Tony has been conviceted, my weekend is free.

    Look inward, Hugh, for what is important to you. I truly hope you find its your family.

  77. Im assuming Hugh isn’t going to take the word of CPS investigators Mississippi. Or LE. Angie Voss saw girl’s underage pregnant, or already with children. Martinez another CPS investigator saw the underage pregnant girls, or underage girl’s with children already. Sheriff Doran commented on the underage pregnant girls. ONE out of the 12 girls who was either pregnant or underage and already had children was actually over 18 Hugh. Is that what you wanted?

  78. Upon arriving at the ranch with law enforcement officers the evening before the raid, the men who met them at the gate told them there were no Sarahs there, Voss testified.

    However, she said, in interviewing 20 women 17 or younger at the ranch, investigators learned that there were five Sarahs — and one of them, like the caller, was 16 and had a baby, although her name was not Sarah Jessop Barlow. The women told investigators they did not know where that Sarah was. It remains unclear whether the 16-year-old who made the calls has been located by authorities.

  79. Stamp, I never defended Tony Alamo.

  80. Hugh Mcbryde said:

    “Stamp, I never defended Tony Alamo”

    Well, I guess you earn half a point then, Hugh! Congratulations!

    Deputydog just provided the proof you spoke of needing!

    Would you like to discuss?

  81. Well hell hugh you should have defended Tony Alamo, he does the very same thing Flds does, he was just more OPENLY flagrant about it. And its wrong either way you flaunt it, Polygamy is a disqusting, degrading, dispecable way of life!!

  82. See DD? He leaves when he can’t face facts. I mean you just told him who saw the girls, where is he?

  83. By the way Hugh, Merrianne is still under court supervision of sorts. Her mother Barbara gets supervised visitation, and the Judge ordered update once a year. So , I wouldn’t say all is A-Okay just yet.

  84. Hugh do you believe that polygamy is necessary for salvation like the FLDS?

    I would have much more respect for Warren if he stood up for his beliefs and did not have 80 wives.

    He should just kept up to 3 and took care of them and their children. He got greedy.

  85. Well now there’s a quaint idea, owning more than three women is greedy?

    Um, how about owning any woman is criminal? If you are married to her, she is your equal. If you are only keeping her “like a wife”, then she is your concubine.

    How about let’s obey the laws against Bigamy and not “keep” any of them that aren’t wives, while pretending like they are.

  86. Well, Boots the Fundamentalists go through life looking through the rear view mirror, in fact I am surprised that they don’t drive down the highways backward because that certainly what they would love to do, roll back time to the good ole’ daze. You know Boots Islam teaches back when Mohammad said 3 or 4 wives was O.K. he threw in a sweetner, namely that your slave concubines didn’t count towards the total. Greeks and Romans were O.K. with female slave concubines, they just drew the line at pregnancy but no worries pregnant slave women tended to sell first in the marketplace, so a Roman Senator could always divest himself of any scandals or blame his oldest son. The thing that really bothers me is how the Warrenites love to pretend that Child Brides is a new trend and nobody had ever heard of such a thing before. I guess they know not to ask the Moms, Aunts and Grandmas how old they were when their first born arrived.

  87. MississippiGirl for your information duane tends to take a powder on big news days like ten convictions is enough to keep him away until next week. Then he will pass it off as old news and keep changing the subject or feign disinterest since the Jury was unanimous.

    Hugh don’t want to defend Alamo fair enough. Care to condemn Alamo, well, what’s the matter Hugh?

  88. Hugh, what will you do if the authority of your church tells you that all discussion is done and that you must renounce your blog or consider yourself excommunicated?

    I am not snarking at you here; this is the most serious question I could ask you. I think the above is inevitable if you belong to a conservative Christian congregation.

    I give you credit for not being hypocritical; you clearly take the question of church authority very seriously. This happens to have been an area of great struggle for me. I understand how difficult it is.

    You have two options, as I see it:

    1. To accept excommunication and become a Unitarian or Episcopalian or take up a solitary walk with the Lord;
    2. To renounce not only your advocacy of polygamy but your internal acceptance of the idea (to do the one without the other would be hypocritical, as I’m sure you realize).

    I suggest that you take your Bible and spend some significant time in prayer with God. Ask God to send his Holy Spirit to cleanse and guide you and to hold any evil spirits back from infiltrating your thoughts while you pray. Keep your Bible handy and test your insights against Scripture.

    Remember, your blog could be a form of idolatry that is standing between you and rebirth in Christ Jesus. And nothing is worth that… Nothing. Especially if it has taken things of real value from you, such as relationships or happiness.

    If I were closer, I could help you wrestle with this. But from this distance all I can do is pray for you. When I do, I feel hopeful, which tells me there is an opportunity here for God to move in your life. I have lifted you up in prayer and will continue to do so. God bless you.

  89. Greetings,

    What denomination are you?

  90. Does it matter Hugh? She prays that’s whats important.

  91. Unitarian or Episcopalian? What’s the difference?


  92. FLDS Texas, none, to you. I’m what’s known as “Reformed.” There are a number of “reformed” denominations, most of which are organized in a form of Governance called “Presbyterian.” We are BIBLE believing. Unitarians and Episcopalians are utter jokes in that regard, particularly Unitarians.

    I’m trying to understand where “Greetings From New York” is sourcing her understanding of what I should do in relationship to the church.

  93. I am a former member of a liberal denomination who has temporarily accepted a solitary walk with the Lord. After a lifetime of being enmeshed in my church, this was a bit of a blow, as I’m sure you understand. (Like you, I don’t want to identify my church for privacy reasons.)

    Who was right in our dispute? I think I am, but their argument has its points. My greater goal has been to preserve relationships with the people who baptized my children and buried my dead.

    It has taken me most of the past six years to fully separate from my old church. That included several abortive attempts to join other churches. I realize now that it was much like going through a divorce for me, and I need to lay the old relationship to rest before I can have a new one.

    So I wait on the Lord to guide me. This hasn’t affected my faith nearly as much as I expected it would:

    “Find rest, O my soul, in God alone;
    my hope comes from him.

    “He alone is my rock and my salvation;
    he is my fortress, I will not be shaken.

    “My salvation and my honor depend on God;
    he is my mighty rock, my refuge…”

    (Psalm 62)

  94. Hugh — it was a dig at the Episcopal Church. Greetings probably gets it, but I’m just guessing.

  95. Yes, I got it. And smiled.


    The full and open rebellion on Rome. Protest-ants by spiritual nature anyway, always asking questions?

    I’m glad you smiled, Greetings, since I call my friends “Whiskey-Palins” and they seem to like it;)

    Want a kid to be spiritual? Take him fishin’.

  97. Funny you would mention that, Boots, since I was just about to post the following to Hugh:

    I don’t know enough about sixteenth century Dutch religion to know how the Anabaptists and the Reformed Congregationalists went their separate ways. But even with my limited knowledge, I imagine polygamy would be a tough nut for any Dutch Reformed congregation to swallow, considering the hash the Anabaptist heretics made of it.

    (Anyone who’s interested can look up Jan van Leiden and the Münster Rebellion; I’m sure Hugh already knows the story.)

    I have four spiritual kids and they got that way going to church.

  98. It’s nearly midnight here in the Empire State! The close of a great day—Tony Alamo in jail for the rest of his life. Alleluia and good night.

  99. Well I wonder if Merrianne will ever be reunited with her child?

  100. I think you are thinking of Theresa, Anonymous 12:10. Merianne, as far as anyone knows, has never had sex, much less a child.

  101. I think what is safe to say is that the vast majority of posters at this site are not what I would call “bible believing.” That’s ok, but I am, and thus that governs my beliefs. I’ve seen a lot of misunderstanding of what I believe based on trying to fully fit it into some sort of denominational mode or existing belief system 100%. Semper Reformanda is probably the best way to describe my position for your purposes. It is a basic tenet of the Reformation, that has been wrongly put aside.

  102. I believe totally in the Bible , cover to cover. That’s why im not reformed, deformed or swayed by Religious hoop la. The old testment was history, and history of the Jews. The new testament is reformation only because it included the gentiles, Thank God.
    If it were NOT for Christ and his work on the Cross Hugh, me and you and every other gentile in the world wouldn’t be included in salvation. I don’t need 15th or 16th Century theologians to tell me that, or that only through Christ can someone be saved.
    Everything anyone needs to know is right there in the living word of GOD. The holy spirit teaches us, not theologians.

  103. Work out your salvation with fear and trembling hugh, daily. God highly disliked the jews practicing Polygamy and disciplined those who did, including the prophets, and those he chose.

  104. not what I would call “bible believing.” That’s ok, but I am, and thus that governs my beliefs

    Um, yeah, except you can’t find any religious sect to buy into your “bible belief.” Your “beliefs” are so far out of the mainstream that the only folks who buy your “bible beliefs” are Warren Jeffs and Tony Alamo.

    Nice try though sicko.

  105. I don’t have any fancy words to throw out like Semper Reformda, (which reminds me of the words,”Semper Phi”) lol
    Im just a plain old person, who believes in a loving God, who wants None to perish.

  106. There are worse doctrines than “Ecclesia reformata semper reformanda secundum verbum Dei,” which is most accurately translated as “The church reformed, always being reformed, according to the word of God.”

  107. Hugh, I would describe the majority of the posters here who are my personal friends as both Bible believing and born-again.

    I may disagree with their interpretation but I don’t question their sincerity or their salvation. In fact, it’s not my place to question anyone’s salvation—that judgment is reserved for God.

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