Fiduciary’s Response to UEP Settlement Proposal
Exhibits to Fiduciary’s Response
FLDS Proposal and Memorandum
Arizona AG Response to UEP Settlement Proposal
~ by FLDS TEXAS on July 1, 2009.
Posted in The Evidence
WOW talk about a can of worms – the FLDS Can of Worms Runneth OVER!
Stamp said this on July 1, 2009 at 3:58 PM
Im glad to see some xflds members actually responded,,, I trully hope Shurtleff or the Judge will answer some of the questions they asked.
deputydog1 said this on July 1, 2009 at 4:32 PM
Besides NOT being a love fest, top cop Goddard makes points that would preclude him from changing his mind.
Stamp said this on July 1, 2009 at 4:34 PM
All I know is all this is going to come to head soon, and lately Mark Shurtleff has been leaving the AG office business in the hands of Tim Bodily!
deputydog1 said this on July 1, 2009 at 4:39 PM
The 1953 judge was obviously mistaken in his belief that Utah would assist in the erradication of polygamy [ROFLMAO]. Sure, why don’t we all run out and vote for Romney as our next grand solution!
There were less than 300 children taken from the raid on Shortcreek in 1953, and now, less than 60 years later they have successfully bred over 10,000 more lawless members. These people will not submit to the laws of our land, especially if they remain unpunished for their crimes against the human rights of women.
If the answer is not to put the adults in prison, and take their children away from them, short of an action of war [which I see as a vastly more expensive alternative than mass foster care], I don’t know what the answer could possibly be.
Hello out there U.S. Justice Department, anyone home?
For some strange reason I don’t think you care AT ALL about the future of women’s rights in my country. I have the rather creepy feeling that you don’t care about my great grand daughters, except to see them enslaved.
Well, here’s some news you can take to the Federal bank, I’m a Texan, and we’re going to stay a FREE state for women, with OR without you.
I will not submit to the FLDS/LDS/Islamic or any other wacko religius teachings of the requirement for women to submit like slaves to men. I will not submit to Street/Curious or any of his kind, or to his hateful and repressive false god.
I’m a free woman, a Texan, Southerner and an American, and my great grand daughters will live free of them all as well.
COME AND TAKE IT
Boots said this on July 1, 2009 at 8:12 PM
I would love to be a fly on the wall in Shurtleff’s office after reading the 3 responses!! Seems Mr Shurtleff has lots of splaining to do!!
deputydog1 said this on July 1, 2009 at 9:31 PM
I might have to disagree with Wisan on one teeny, tiny thing. I am afraid any proposed settlement might need to give all of the Baby Cemetery to the FLDS. They seem to NEED so many baby graves. . .
K.Wright said this on July 1, 2009 at 11:35 PM
A lot of splaining to do is right, DD!!! I hope when he runs for office again he is trounced for his derelict of duty!
K.Wright said this on July 1, 2009 at 11:36 PM
I bet Mark S is wishing he had nver got into this situation. He could have stayed out of it and let someone else try to negotiate with the flds. This mess is not helping his campaign. I have sent emails to his campaign staff expressing dismay at the proposal he and the flds came up with.
chemist said this on July 2, 2009 at 3:37 AM
LOL, chemist I have sent emails to his campaign staff too, do you get replies back from Jessica Fawson, Campaign Manager. She has been surprised at a couple of things I sent her.
LadySadie said this on July 2, 2009 at 5:30 AM
In case anyone didn’t know, Mark Shurtleff is running for Utah State Senate.
LadySadie said this on July 2, 2009 at 5:31 AM
The responses I have got back were rather bland thanks for contacting us, etc.
chemist said this on July 2, 2009 at 7:07 AM
I thought it was for the US Senator from Utah that he was running for, not a Utah State Senate.
Anonymous said this on July 2, 2009 at 7:28 AM
With my current schedule, I have to read these documents piecemeal. I started with the exhibits attached to Bruce Wisan’s statement, and will move forward as time allows.
The first exhibit consists of dictations by WSJ, and they open with a masterpiece of delusional thinking. Somehow, a black seductress is conflated with Judge Lindbergh in his fevered imagination.
(WSJ clearly suffers from that psychosexual attraction-and-repulsion thing in re: blacks. It is one more bit of evidence that his prophetic output is based on sexual repression rather than God, which is why I think we’ll eventually find photos of him cross-dressing.)
At the time of these dictations, WSJ was a fugitive. Several people are named in these dictations as taking instruction from WSJ by phone. They were aiding a fugitive avoid detection and arrest, part of a pattern of obstruction of justice as per RICO.
The third exhibit is a legal opinion from the Arizona AG’s senior litigator. He raises several interesting points, including:
• The reformed trust is secular in nature. The proposal attempts to bend it back into a religious form, but that isn’t legally possible;
• By statute, the trust can’t support illegal activity. Since the FLDS advocates polygamy, they can’t turn assets over to it.
• There is no way to know whether the Utah AG’s office is negotiating with legitimate representatives of the FLDS beneficiaries.
Sadly, it’s time for me to get to work. I’ll read more later.
Greetings from New York said this on July 2, 2009 at 7:38 AM
Wisan points out Jeffs claim to “Answer them nothing, the UEP is rejected of God, adn Linberg and Wisan are of the devil”
Then Wisan points out nobody even knows who runs the FLDS church, surely its not Willie.
THE DEVIL? AND THE GUY REJECTED BY GOD WHO SITS IN A PRISON?
Stamp said this on July 2, 2009 at 8:00 AM
Adding to that, I think the Devil got to Mark Shurtleff. The needs of an aspiring Senator are GREAT….
Stamp said this on July 2, 2009 at 8:02 AM
Anyone who negotiates with Willie Jessop is wasting their time. Willie has stated under oath that he does not speak for the flds church, whatever that is. He further stated that he is not an official in the flds church. Willie and the other flds members still recognize that jailed felon warren jeffs as their true leader. If warren does not approve or signal approval it will not happen. Maybe Shurtleff should have gone to Kingman, AZ and tried to negotiate directly with warren. That would have made a nice campaign commercial for Shutleff’s opponent in the US senate race
chemist said this on July 2, 2009 at 8:09 AM
The judge in the 1953 case says “Utah needs to enforce the law so that it has the “respect and regard of law abiders that Arizona has”..
SORRY both States have lost the respect and regard of law abiders – HOWEVER AZ AG Goddard is making up lost time fast.
UT AG Mark Shurtleff? He has lost the respect and regard of the masses – his Senate campaign may be well funded but the word is out, he is a child molester protecter!
Stamp said this on July 2, 2009 at 8:28 AM
That Mark was gloating that he had a workable plan is disturbing, ignorant of the facts, and on its face a lie.
Maybe he REALLY HAS sold himself down the river – HOWEVER he cant sell the People or the State of UTAH down the river.
Maybe he has expired his usefullness to his position – he no longer knows or cares for the law.
Jon Huntsman, WHAT SAY YOU!?
Stamp said this on July 2, 2009 at 8:36 AM
Romney scares the heck out of me. Pretty face on tv, charming, grandson of Mormon polygamists.
Betty said this on July 2, 2009 at 8:53 AM
I’ve got a busy day today, too, GFNY. Fortunately, God finished watering the garden and lawn for me, so that’s off my plate. Did a much better job than my well and pump can manage, also. Later, all.
Betty said this on July 2, 2009 at 8:55 AM
Is the email address for Mark’s campaign staff email@example.com?
mississippigirl said this on July 2, 2009 at 3:07 PM
“Romney scares the heck out of me.”
Agreed. I’d vote for a glass of water first.
If the Republicans are that corrupt, or STUPID to choose him as their candidate, I’ll go back to punching a straight Libertarian ticket. Even Palin couldn’t stop me from doing that if she runs with him, and I like her a lot.
Boots said this on July 2, 2009 at 3:15 PM
By the time the next election comes around, America will be so screwed up by Obama,it won’t matter who runs for any office!
deputydog1 said this on July 2, 2009 at 3:32 PM
LOL, DD. That’s how I felt about Clinton, but we are resiliant and will come out okay.
Like I always say, “Everything is always okay in the end, so if it’s not okay, obviously it’s not the end yet”.
Boots said this on July 2, 2009 at 3:37 PM
mississippigirl, here is the link to send an email to Shurtleff’s campaign staff:
LadySadie said this on July 2, 2009 at 4:01 PM
Thank you ! 🙂
mississippigirl said this on July 2, 2009 at 4:06 PM
Oh, I can’t stand Palin. That’s funny, we agree on so much else.
Betty said this on July 2, 2009 at 4:22 PM
I got a nice actual letter from Susan King who is a state Representative for District 71 today. She said she appreciated me writing about SB 1440 bill which Dirt Bag Perry vetoed. She actually voted for the bill. She said to write her anytime of this type bill which is presented.. She serves on the Appropriations and Public Health Committees.
She even signed it herself!!
deputydog1 said this on July 2, 2009 at 4:27 PM
That’s the funny thing about this issue, sugar, we can all have very different backgrounds, religious upbringings or political leanings, but it won’t stop any of us from standing together to get children protected and our laws enforced.
I think it’s nice be on a bridge between two worlds, don’t you?
We always have way more in common with the people who make us nuts than we imagine.
Boots said this on July 2, 2009 at 4:28 PM
That’s for dang sure! LOL
deputydog1 said this on July 2, 2009 at 4:29 PM
Just today I had a very nice man go off on pro-lifers and what scum they are. I didn’t bother to tell him I’m one of them.
I don’t have to agree 100% with anyone to consider them my friend, and the people who do, in my opinion, are missing out on some VERY wonderful friendships.
Boots said this on July 2, 2009 at 4:30 PM
BTW, I’m about as conservative, politically and personally as they come but one of the nicest people I met on the tour walked through the door of the book store we were at, wearing a hot pink shirt that read: “Smarty Pants Liberal”.
I jumped up from my chair, started laughing and walking towards her, saying “Oh my! I can tell you are a friend waiting to happen!”
Turns out they had just come to see us from a Cindy Sheahan Rally. I had to control my gag reflex when I heard it, but I just did what nice Southern girls do. I didn’t have anything nice to say, so I shut my mouth. I can still be their friend and even love them.
Boots said this on July 2, 2009 at 4:37 PM
That is wonderful to hear about Susan King. Several people in Abilene, who said they knew her personally, promised us they would contact her about the issue when we were there.
So my list of helpfuls in Texas reads like this so far, Representatives King, Hildebran, Rose and Darby.
I’m sure there are more, we just need to locate and identify them…then stay on their you-know-whats.
Boots said this on July 2, 2009 at 4:45 PM
Johnathan and Hyrum Harker respond to FLDS settlement of UEP, and they don’t like it ONE bit!!
deputydog1 said this on July 2, 2009 at 4:48 PM
Dear DD–thanks for the link to the Harker response. I wish FLDS Texas could post it here as well. You can just feel their indignation radiating off the page, can’t you? And for good reason: they are looking at two years of hard work and deferred opportunity being flushed away.
(And it’s their family farm. They were disinherited because they were apostatized. So much for religious “freedom”.)
And one by one all the disaffected parties will weigh in—what did Mark Shurtleff think was going to happen?
I can’t believe he is stupid, so why was he so blind? It was obvious from the get-go that he couldn’t negotiate away other people’s rights and obligations.
I’m curling up to read Wisan’s response now.
Greetings from New York said this on July 2, 2009 at 6:06 PM
Seems to me within FLDS discrimination BECAUSE of religion is taking place. It’s extremely volitile, brother against brother, family against family,, kinda like the civil war.
deputydog1 said this on July 2, 2009 at 6:22 PM
Bruce Wisan’s attorneys set out four reasonable conditions for a settlement:
1. It must honor the rule of law;
2. It must honor and acknowledge the legitimacy of court oversight;
3. It must honor the legal responsibilities of the fiduciary;
4. It must honor the trust’s obligations.
Why is any of that difficult to follow? The trust was created by the court after the assets were abandoned by the prior trustees. It would be a legal travesty to ignore that.
I thought it was interesting to note that Wisan has “spent” $3 million, but he has returned $8 million in stolen assets back to the trust. Also that Wee Willie has offered to pay $3 million to settle the trust’s outstanding debts, in exchange for $100 million in property. Good deal, that.
He also documents how Wee Willie’s proposal effectively puts almost all the property back in the FLDS’ hands, by limiting distribution to those who lived there when Warren had Short Creek by the short hairs, eliminating holders of life-estates from the settlement, and applying a religious test only where it suits his purpose.
Greetings from New York said this on July 2, 2009 at 7:06 PM
I think the court needs to consider the campaigns of intimidation run against Wisan, the trust’s other employees, the Harkers, individual families like the Stubbses, and people who have leased property from the trust. A good chunk of the $3 million spent by Wisan has been to defend the trust against frivolous lawsuits filed by Wee Willie & Co.
Greetings from New York said this on July 2, 2009 at 7:12 PM
I don’t have to get beyond the third paragraph of Wee Willie’s proposal to go nuts: “One is for $54,700, representing the amount necessary to reach the $250,000 down payment negotiated between the Utah AG, the FLDS, the Fiduciary, and the Callister firm.”
WHAT down-payment? Their payments are lease payments, not down payments on anything.
I don’t think I can stomach more of Wee Willie tonight. Maybe tomorrow.
Greetings from New York said this on July 2, 2009 at 7:19 PM
I agree with you 100% Greetings!!
deputydog1 said this on July 2, 2009 at 7:24 PM
the ag of utah, is in DEEP DOO DOO as far as IM concerned!!
deputydog1 said this on July 2, 2009 at 7:27 PM
They give MArk Shurtleff another round of DAIRY byproduct on his desk- – some mighty tough issues there for Marky POO!
But Wisan grills him too.
And Goddard pretty much tells MARK he would fail US Constitution 101 and not pass a Mexican POLICE ACADEMY.
TOO funny – I havent seen such a collection of legal documents that embarrass a State AG – EVER. NEVER!
And MARK SHOULD BE embarrassed!
Stamp said this on July 2, 2009 at 7:47 PM
GFNY — we will post the Hyrum and Jonathan Harker Response as well as the response filed by the Hooles on behalf of the Lost Boys who are the plaintiffs in the suit that resulted in trustees being booted from the UEP. It is really good and it is wonderful to see these court documents being filed that finally lay it all out there exactly how this group has been functioning and how they continue to operate.
Shurtleff is a complete buffoon, and this behavior makes me wonder if he has gotten some dirty campaign financing or promises of such. I cannot think of any other reason he would do an about face like this and be rolling in the dirt with the likes of Willie — not to mention the completely illegal and outrageous settlement proposal he made. Really cannot imagine what he is thinking or why he would think this would not draw negative attention for him. He will still win his race because he is popular for a lot of other reasons, but I think his reputation will suffer from this. He could have been a hero. it was a very brave and courageous move to take control of the trust in the first place — but it is chickenshit what he has done in the last six months.
FLDS Texas said this on July 2, 2009 at 9:40 PM
Wisan – Goddard – HArkers – Hooles -Good residents of Utah, Arizona adn Texas – happen to stand by and agree with you!
What is Shurtleff SMOKIN’!?!?!?
Stamp said this on July 2, 2009 at 9:59 PM
It just feels SO GOOD to see BAD IDEAS get pounded SO RIGHTEOUSLY.
I almost feel sorry for Mark.
Stamp said this on July 2, 2009 at 10:01 PM
Maybe this can help you figure it out. They vote as a block, estimated in the tens of thousands strong… Can felons vote in Utah?
Polygamous Communities Produce Voter Guide
Boots said this on July 2, 2009 at 10:05 PM
“Can felons vote in Utah?”
If they havent been convicted yet, they can!
Stamp said this on July 2, 2009 at 10:20 PM
If you were a politician there, assured of a block vote of tens of thousands of people, would you be doing anything to take away their right to VOTE?
Boots said this on July 2, 2009 at 10:40 PM
And if you’re tempted to think it’s just the fundie Mormons?
50,000 to 100,000 U.S. Muslims in polygamous families
“Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, said that a minority of Muslims take second wives, and that Islamic scholars would differ on whether one could do so while living in the United States.” He didn’t say anything about obeying American law.
Sharia Alert: “Some Muslims in U.S. Quietly Engage in Polygamy,” by Barbara Bradley Hagerty for NPR, May 27 (thanks to all who sent this in):
All Things Considered, May 27, 2008 · Although polygamy is illegal in the U.S. and most mosques try to discourage plural marriages, some Muslim men in America have quietly married multiple wives.
No one knows how many Muslims in the U.S. live in polygamous families. But according to academics researching the issue, estimates range from 50,000 to 100,000 people.
Group member Sarah says that in her native Guinea, the husband springs it on his wife that he’s going to marry someone else. Sarah, like the others interviewed for this story, would give only her first name.
“Sometimes he say, ‘OK, I am going to be married tomorrow,’ or ‘I’m going to be married today.’ He’s going ask you like that. It happened to me,” she says.
Sarah begins to cry. Others nod in sympathy. These women are all Muslim. The Koran states that men may marry up to four women. The Prophet Mohammad had multiple wives.
But there’s a restriction, says Sally, another group member. The husband cannot favor one woman over another – with his wealth or his heart.
“You have to love them the same way, share everything the same way, equally,” says Sally. “Nobody can do that. It’s impossible.”
Indeed. But that doesn’t stop it.
Still, Muslims practice polygamy in the U.S., despite state laws prohibiting it.
Here’s how a man gets around the laws: He marries one woman under civil law, and then marries one, two or three others in religious ceremonies that are not recognized by the state. In other cases, men marry women in both America and abroad.
Many women keep quiet for fear of retribution or deportation.
For example, Sally’s husband moved to the United States from the Ivory Coast before she did. When Sally joined him, she found he had married someone else in America. But without legal immigration papers, she didn’t dare come forward and report him to the authorities.
She said when she arrived in the U.S., her husband and his new wife put her in the basement.
“They told me to cook, clean, do everything. I didn’t speak English. And he told me, ‘Don’t say nothing. You say something, she’s going make you deported. And me, I’m going to be in jail.'”
Eventually, Sally left the house with her children, and now works at a hair braiding salon. But that fear of deportation prevents many from leaving their polygamous relationships.
“Legally, they’re invisible,” says Julie Dinnerstein, a senior attorney for Sanctuary for Families. “If you are the second or third or fourth wife, that marital relationship is not going to be recognized for immigration purposes. It means if your husband is a citizen or green card holder, he can’t sponsor you. It means if your husband gets asylum, you don’t get asylum at the same time. The man is always going to be in a position of greater power.”
In the past decade, Muslim clerics began to notice that some men who wanted a religious wedding were already married to someone else.
According to Daisy Khan, who heads the American Society for Muslim Advancement and is married to an imam, polygamy is more common among conservative, less educated immigrants from Africa and Asia. It is rarer among middle-class Muslims from the Middle East. She adds that nowadays, imams do background checks on the grooms to make sure they’re not already married in their home countries.
Some clerics in the U.S. perform second marriage ceremonies in secret….
They ought to be prosecuted for that, when discovered.
Full article text here:
So maybe next the fundie Mormons and the Muslims will combine a voters guide?
We ain’t in Kansas anymore.
Boots said this on July 2, 2009 at 10:47 PM
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