Federal Charges against FLDS?

We’ve noticed that there have recently been a number of comments and blog posts about the possibility of Federal charges against FLDS members. A Federal warrant was served at the time of the YFZ rescue in April, 2008. Earlier this year, Willie Jessop’s lawyer asserted a Fifth Amendment privilege on Wilie’s behalf, citing ongoing investigations into RICO, MANN act, money laundering, wire fraud, interference with child custody, tampering with evidence and obstruction — which led some of us to believe that there really was an active Federal investigation going on and perhaps a Federal grand jury had been convened. As Texas Bluesman pointed out in a recent post, Ranger Long refused to answer Piccaretta’s interview/deposition questions on the grounds that he may be called as a witness in a Federal grand jury — again leading many of us to believe that there was activity taking place on the Federal level.

Since then, however, we’ve heard nothing.

Two Federal criminal statutes that are often mentioned in connection with the FLDS activities are RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, 18 U.S.C. § 1961, et seq) and the MANN act (aka United States White-Slave Traffic Act, 18 U.S.C. § 2421 et seq).   Since there seems to be quite a bit of interest in this topic, let’s look at the text of the Federal statutes to see exactly what we’re talking about to aid in our discussions.

RICO –  18 U.S.C. § 1961 et seq

§ 1962. Prohibited activities

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person who has received any income derived, directly or indirectly, from a pattern of racketeering activity or through collection of an unlawful debt in which such person has participated as a principal within the meaning of section 2, title 18, United States Code, to use or invest, directly or indirectly, any part of such income, or the proceeds of such income, in acquisition of any interest in, or the establishment or operation of, any enterprise which is engaged in, or the activities of which affect, interstate or foreign commerce. A purchase of securities on the open market for purposes of investment, and without the intention of controlling or participating in the control of the issuer, or of assisting another to do so, shall not be unlawful under this subsection if the securities of the issuer held by the purchaser, the members of his immediate family, and his or their accomplices in any pattern or racketeering activity or the collection of an unlawful debt after such purchase do not amount in the aggregate to one percent of the outstanding securities of any one class, and do not confer, either in law or in fact, the power to elect one or more directors of the issuer.

MANN Act – 18 USC § 2421

2421 Whoever knowingly transports any individual in interstate or foreign commerce, or in any Territory or Possession of the United States, with intent that such individual engage in prostitution, or in any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

2422 (a) Whoever knowingly persuades, induces, entices, or coerces any individual to travel in interstate or foreign commerce, or in any Territory or Possession of the United States, to engage in prostitution, or in any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

2423 (a) Transportation With Intent To Engage in Criminal Sexual Activity.— A person who knowingly transports an individual who has not attained the age of 18 years in interstate or foreign commerce, or in any commonwealth, territory or possession of the United States, with intent that the individual engage in prostitution, or in any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense, shall be fined under this title and imprisoned not less than 10 years or for life.

(b) Travel With Intent To Engage in Illicit Sexual Conduct.— A person who travels in interstate commerce or travels into the United States, or a United States citizen or an alien admitted for permanent residence in the United States who travels in foreign commerce, for the purpose of engaging in any illicit sexual conduct with another person shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

(c) Engaging in Illicit Sexual Conduct in Foreign Places.— Any United States citizen or alien admitted for permanent residence who travels in foreign commerce, and engages in any illicit sexual conduct with another person shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

(d) Ancillary Offenses.— Whoever, for the purpose of commercial advantage or private financial gain, arranges, induces, procures, or facilitates the travel of a person knowing that such a person is traveling in interstate commerce or foreign commerce for the purpose of engaging in illicit sexual conduct shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

(e) Attempt and Conspiracy.— Whoever attempts or conspires to violate subsection (a), (b), (c), or (d) shall be punishable in the same manner as a completed violation of that subsection.

(f) Definition.— As used in this section, the term “illicit sexual conduct” means

(1) a sexual act (as defined in section 2246) with a person under 18 years of age that would be in violation of chapter 109A if the sexual act occurred in the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States; or

(2) any commercial sex act (as defined in section 1591) with a person under 18 years of age.

(g) Defense.— In a prosecution under this section based on illicit sexual conduct as defined in subsection (f)(2), it is a defense, which the defendant must establish by a preponderance of the evidence, that the defendant reasonably believed that the person with whom the defendant engaged in the commercial sex act had attained the age of 18 years.

2424 (a) Whoever keeps, maintains, controls, supports, or harbors in any house or place for the purpose of prostitution, or for any other immoral purpose, any individual, knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that the individual is an alien, shall file with the Commissioner of Immigration and Naturalization a statement in writing setting forth the name of such individual, the place at which that individual is kept, and all facts as to the date of that individual’s entry into the United States, the port through which that individual entered, that individual’s age, nationality, and parentage, and concerning that individual’s procuration to come to this country within the knowledge of such person; and

Whoever fails within five business days after commencing to keep, maintain, control, support, or harbor in any house or place for the purpose of prostitution, or for any other immoral purpose, any alien individual to file such statement concerning such alien individual with the Commissioner of Immigration and Naturalization; or
Whoever knowingly and willfully states falsely or fails to disclose in such statement any fact within that person’s knowledge or belief with reference to the age, nationality, or parentage of any such alien individual, or concerning that individual’s procuration to come to this country—
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.

(b) In any prosecution brought under this section, if it appears that any such statement required is not on file in the office of the Commissioner of Immigration and Naturalization, the person whose duty it is to file such statement shall be presumed to have failed to file said statement, unless such person or persons shall prove otherwise. No person shall be excused from furnishing the statement, as required by this section, on the ground or for the reason that the statement so required by that person, or the information therein contained, might tend to criminate that person or subject that person to a penalty or forfeiture, but no information contained in the statement or any evidence which is directly or indirectly derived from such information may be used against any person making such statement in any criminal case, except a prosecution for perjury, giving a false statement or otherwise failing to comply with this section.

2425 Whoever, using the mail or any facility or means of interstate or foreign commerce, or within the special maritime and territorial jurisdiction of the United States, knowingly initiates the transmission of the name, address, telephone number, social security number, or electronic mail address of another individual, knowing that such other individual has not attained the age of 16 years, with the intent to entice, encourage, offer, or solicit any person to engage in any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense, or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title, imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both.

2428 (a) In General.— The court, in imposing sentence on any person convicted of a violation of this chapter, shall order, in addition to any other sentence imposed and irrespective of any provision of State law, that such person shall forfeit to the United States—

(1) such person’s interest in any property, real or personal, that was used or intended to be used to commit or to facilitate the commission of such violation; and
(2) any property, real or personal, constituting or derived from any proceeds that such person obtained, directly or indirectly, as a result of such violation.

(1) In general.— The following shall be subject to forfeiture to the United States and no property right shall exist in them:

(A) Any property, real or personal, used or intended to be used to commit or to facilitate the commission of any violation of this chapter.
(B) Any property, real or personal, that constitutes or is derived from proceeds traceable to any violation of this chapter.

(2) Applicability of chapter 46.— The provisions of chapter 46 of this title relating to civil forfeitures shall apply to any seizure or civil forfeiture under this subsection.

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on June 25, 2009.

75 Responses to “Federal Charges against FLDS?”

  1. RICO, MANN act, money laundering, wire fraud, interference with child custody, tampering with evidence and obstruction . Every single ONE OF THOSE FLDS has done!

  2. The FLDS make a habit of taking children and women across state and international lines for the purposes of sexual relations.

    If there was a more relevant case, I dont think I’ve seen it.

    Also, add to the mix, they are racist, per the many tapes they distribute.

    Besides taking women, many of the females are children.

    How many crimes must be committed before there is any action?

  3. Word from some of our sources is that the Federal investigation has been completely shut down, and the order for that came straight from the oval office.

  4. Thanks for the update Boots, of course I can’t help but question your sources. So Barack Obama is secretly in league with the evil polygamists? Could Michelle not be his only wife?

  5. I question it, too, Duane. I’m just saying that’s “the word”. Seen any Federal action yet, even with all the evidence? What misogynistic cultural practice did Obama’s father participate in?

    Oh yeah, polygamy, or just plain bigamy if you prefer, Duane. No sympathy there I’m sure.

  6. “What misogynistic cultural practice did Obama’s father participate in?”

    So you believe sons should be punished for the sins of their fathers?

  7. There you go again, Duane, putting words in my mouth, which is just freakin’ pathetic.

    Obama’s father was a bigamist. He came from a polygamist culture and didn’t think anything of marrying women, creating children and then abandoning them. He was legally married in Africa when he married Obama’s mother in the states….then ran off and abandoned them, too.

    Yeah, I would say Obama has made his Islamic sympathies pretty dang clear…and Hilary putting a veil on her head in Egypt was as disgusting a slap in the face to Middle East Muslim women trying to get equality as they come.

    I don’t care what party anyone is in, or loyal to, I’m here to get in their face when they are corrupt, or just plain stupid.

  8. Boots can you tell us more about what your sources had to say? I am curious about this “order from the oval office”.

  9. FLDS Texas, I understood that there were whole families of crimes which can be construed as racketeering under RICO if a person is convicted of two offenses over a ten year period. I have never seen a complete list of said crimes (not from lack of searching) but I have cobbled the following together from various places. Can you explain how these crimes end up being racketeering and if this list is reasonably accurate?

    • Arson;
    • Bankruptcy or securities fraud;
    • Bribery;
    • Bringing aliens into the country or aiding them in illegally entering the country for financial gain (as in the Mohawk Industries case, which I can no longer make heads or tails of);
    • Counterfeiting;
    • Dealing drugs;
    • Dealing in obscene matter;
    • Drug trafficking;
    • Embezzlement;
    • Embezzling union funds;
    • Extortion;
    • Fraud;
    • Gambling;
    • Kidnapping;
    • Money laundering and related offenses;
    • Murder;
    • Obstruction of justice;
    • Racketeering;
    • Robbery;
    • Slavery;
    • Terrorism;
    • Theft.

    Also, how did Randall Terry and Operation Rescue end up being charged under RICO? (Pro-life advocates eventually won but I believe Terry ended up under permanent injunction.)

  10. Boots, I would love to try to assemble a list of girls taken by the FLDS across state lines for “sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense.”

  11. One more question while I’m pestering… and in fact, Ron in Houston, why don’t you answer this for me since I love free legal advice.

    How did NOW—a non-governmental entity—drive the Operation Rescue RICO case? Is it possible for a group of citizens to claim under RICO? If so, what would stop the Lost Boys, the apostatized fathers, or former child brides from claiming under RICO?

  12. There are tons of comments in the Open Discussion and few here, although this is where the heart of the matter lies. It is easier to wax rhetorical about Duane than to collect the data about specific instances of abuse, but it will only be through documentation that our argument will be made.

    Yes, I cringe at rereading the dictations, too.

  13. Did just a little research to see if the is a statue of limitations on how far back the IRS can go for an audit.

    Three-Year Statute of Limitations Rule (General Rule)

    Six-Year Statute of Limitations Rule

    No Statute of Limitations Rule

    THREE YEAR STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS RULE – GENERAL RULE

    As a general rule, the IRS must assess a tax, or file a lawsuit against the taxpayer to collect a tax, within three years after the tax return is filed

    SIX YEAR STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS RULE

    In certain cases, the IRS is given six years to assess a tax. The six-year statute of limitations on assessment applies to tax returns that omit a substantial amount of gross income. The purpose behind this rule is to provide the IRS extra time to identify and assess a deficiency in cases where a taxpayer’s tax return gives no clue as to the existence of omitted income.

    What is a substantial amount of gross income? The statute of limitations is extended to six years when a taxpayer omits gross income in an amount exceeding 25% of his or her gross income actually reported on the tax return.

    This six-year statute of limitations rule applies only to innocent or negligent omissions of gross income. The six-year limitation period does not apply to fraudulent omissions of gross income, which instead can be assessed at any time!

    Once a taxpayer files a tax return that omits more than 25% of his or her gross income, he or she cannot later start the running of the “general” three-year limitations period by filing an amended tax return that includes the omitted income.

    NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS RULE

    The IRS can assess a tax or bring a lawsuit against you to collect a “non-assessed” tax at any time in certain situations.

    1. The taxpayer does not file a tax return.

    2. The taxpayer files a false or fraudulent tax return with the intent to evade tax.

    3. The taxpayer attempts to defeat or evade any tax, other than income, estate, and gift tax.

    Once the false or fraudulent tax return is filed, the IRS can assess a tax (or commence a lawsuit for the collection of the tax) at any time, and the taxpayer cannot reinstate the “general” three-year statue of limitations rule by filing an amended tax return.

  14. GFNY- the statute defines which activities constitute racketeering. It was so long, I didn’t include it in the opening post bit here it is:

    (1) “racketeering activity” means (A) any act or threat involving murder, kidnapping, gambling, arson, robbery, bribery, extortion, dealing in obscene matter, or dealing in a controlled substance or listed chemical (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act), which is chargeable under State law and punishable by imprisonment for more than one year; (B) any act which is indictable under any of the following provisions of title 18, United States Code: Section 201 (relating to bribery), section 224 (relating to sports bribery), sections 471, 472, and 473 (relating to counterfeiting), section 659 (relating to theft from interstate shipment) if the act indictable under section 659 is felonious, section 664 (relating to embezzlement from pension and welfare funds), sections 891–894 (relating to extortionate credit transactions), section 1028 (relating to fraud and related activity in connection with identification documents), section 1029 (relating to fraud and related activity in connection with access devices), section 1084 (relating to the transmission of gambling information), section 1341 (relating to mail fraud), section 1343 (relating to wire fraud), section 1344 (relating to financial institution fraud), section 1425 (relating to the procurement of citizenship or nationalization unlawfully), section 1426 (relating to the reproduction of naturalization or citizenship papers), section 1427 (relating to the sale of naturalization or citizenship papers), sections 1461–1465 (relating to obscene matter), section 1503 (relating to obstruction of justice), section 1510 (relating to obstruction of criminal investigations), section 1511 (relating to the obstruction of State or local law enforcement), section 1512 (relating to tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant), section 1513 (relating to retaliating against a witness, victim, or an informant), section 1542 (relating to false statement in application and use of passport), section 1543 (relating to forgery or false use of passport), section 1544 (relating to misuse of passport), section 1546 (relating to fraud and misuse of visas, permits, and other documents), sections 1581–1592 (relating to peonage, slavery, and trafficking in persons).,[1] section 1951 (relating to interference with commerce, robbery, or extortion), section 1952 (relating to racketeering), section 1953 (relating to interstate transportation of wagering paraphernalia), section 1954 (relating to unlawful welfare fund payments), section 1955 (relating to the prohibition of illegal gambling businesses), section 1956 (relating to the laundering of monetary instruments), section 1957 (relating to engaging in monetary transactions in property derived from specified unlawful activity), section 1958 (relating to use of interstate commerce facilities in the commission of murder-for-hire), section 1960 (relating to illegal money transmitters), sections 2251, 2251A, 2252, and 2260 (relating to sexual exploitation of children), sections 2312 and 2313 (relating to interstate transportation of stolen motor vehicles), sections 2314 and 2315 (relating to interstate transportation of stolen property), section 2318 (relating to trafficking in counterfeit labels for phonorecords, computer programs or computer program documentation or packaging and copies of motion pictures or other audiovisual works), section 2319 (relating to criminal infringement of a copyright), section 2319A (relating to unauthorized fixation of and trafficking in sound recordings and music videos of live musical performances), section 2320 (relating to trafficking in goods or services bearing counterfeit marks), section 2321 (relating to trafficking in certain motor vehicles or motor vehicle parts), sections 2341–2346 (relating to trafficking in contraband cigarettes), sections 2421–24 (relating to white slave traffic), sections 175–178 (relating to biological weapons), sections 229–229F (relating to chemical weapons), section 831 (relating to nuclear materials), (C) any act which is indictable under title 29, United States Code, section 186 (dealing with restrictions on payments and loans to labor organizations) or section 501 (c) (relating to embezzlement from union funds), (D) any offense involving fraud connected with a case under title 11 (except a case under section 157 of this title), fraud in the sale of securities, or the felonious manufacture, importation, receiving, concealment, buying, selling, or otherwise dealing in a controlled substance or listed chemical (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act), punishable under any law of the United States, (E) any act which is indictable under the Currency and Foreign Transactions Reporting Act, (F) any act which is indictable under the Immigration and Nationality Act, section 274 (relating to bringing in and harboring certain aliens), section 277 (relating to aiding or assisting certain aliens to enter the United States), or section 278 (relating to importation of alien for immoral purpose) if the act indictable under such section of such Act was committed for the purpose of financial gain, or (G) any act that is indictable under any provision listed in section 2332b (g)(5)(B);

  15. Almost seems like the statute was written just for the FLDS

  16. Either the federal government hasn’t found any evidence of violations of Mann or Rico as a result of the raid on YFZ or they are waiting on Walther’s decision is my guess.

  17. arrest for yesterday Washington County

    HAMMON, SAMUEL RAY
    Birth Date: 04/21/81
    Address : POBOX 2062 (CENTENIAL PK), Colorado City, AZ
    Arrest Time/Date Arrested By Agency
    00:30:00 06/27/09 Jessop,Shem COLO

    Statute Offense Class Court Required Bond Amt.Paid
    MOJAVE COUNTY MOJAVE COUNTY DETAINE NA MOHA 0.00 [No Payments Made]

  18. LadySadie,

    I got divorced back in 1994 and the IRS audited me all the way back for the entire marriage, made something up without any documentation to me whatsoever as to where my errors were and then told me I was 10 years late paying it. I went to a tax lawyer and quickly found that it would be cheaper to take out a loan and pay the IRS the $3000 or so than to even pay for the lawyer’s retainer.

    They can do whatever the heck they want to do.

  19. With the breakin news that Winston Blackmore owes $2 million in taxes and penalties in Canada, this should be the siren song for the US IRS to check under the rugs.

  20. The Good the Bad and the UGLY

  21. I tried to take specific crimes which fall under the scope of RICO and match them with behavior which has been documented (by dictations, witnesses, etc.), but I’m sure others can do a much better job of this.

    (It’s my impression that the ‘welfare funds’ covered here are union mutual-welfare schemes, rather than government welfare.)

    Sections 201 and 1951, Bribery, robbery and extortion (the systematic expulsion of men and seizure of their assets);

    Section 1503, Obstruction of justice (assisting WSJ in evading capture);

    Section 1510, Obstruction of criminal investigations (shredding records at YFZ ranch while LE waited to execute a search warrant);

    Section 1511, Obstruction of State or local law enforcement (the name shuffle at the Coliseum, the baby swap)

    Section 1512, Tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant (Candi Shapley)

    Section 1513, Retaliating against a witness, victim, or an informant (child custody suit against Teressa Wall);

    Sections 1581–1592, Peonage, slavery, and trafficking in persons (not paying wages to Lost Boys, moving boys to work at construction sites away from Short Creek, confiscation of families of apostatized men);

    Section 1952, Racketeering (Willie the Enforcer);

    Section 1956 and 1957, Money laundering and proceeds from businesses purchased with tainted money (Rulon Jeffs’ and Merril Jessop’s corporate shell games as well as any money obtained by apostatizing or threatening to apostatize men);

    Sections 2251, 2251A, 2252, and 2260, Sexual exploitation of children (not only the direct sexual exploitation of girls but using them to buy loyalty from henchmen);

    Sections 2314 and 2315, Interstate transportation of stolen property (equipment and assets which belonged to the UEP trust but were taken to Texas and elsewhere);

    Section 2421–24, white slave traffic;

    Section 2319D, Bankruptcy fraud (the current sleight of hand with YFZ ranch’s title and Merril’s attempt to move assets in advance of a child support suit by Carolyn.

  22. Blatantly declared support from an entire town’s police department that the Mafia could only have dreamed of having, and yet still no Federal RICO charges? The officers were simply decertified.

    Although many letters of support were found for the federal fugitive, along with donation money [to help Warren stay on the run] from individual community members, no conspiracy or fugitive harboring charges were ever filed on anyone except the driver.

    More things that make you go Hmmmm…

    Letter from Hildale and Colorado City Marshal Fred Barlow to Warren Jeffs
    December 16, 2006
    Edited by Rick Ross
    On December 7, 2006 the Salt Lake City Tribune published a transcript of letter that Hildale and Colorado City Marshal Fred Barlow wrote to Warren Jeffs.

    The same letter was seized by Federal authorities on Oct. 28, 2005, when Jeffs’ brother, Seth Jeffs, was found in Colorado. Barlow told Arizona police regulators the letter was originally written in October 2005.

    The Salt Lake City Tribune withheld the names of children mentioned within the letter.

    Dear Uncle Warren,

    I would first like to acknowledge you as the one man that was and is called of God to stand at the head of his priesthood and the Kingdom of God on the earth in this day and time. I rejoice in the peace that comes over me when I follow the directives that you have sent to me through Uncle William. I have felt a unity between the peace officers. They have all stated to me their desire to follow the directives that are placed before us. I feel that I am the weakest one among them, but I want to fill the position that you would have me fill and do the job the way that you would like it done. The two men that are in the police academy in Utah are graduating on Oct. 21, 2005. They will still have to pass the waiver in Arizona before we will be able to use them in Arizona. They last word that I had received through Sam Roundy was to use Sam Johnson fill [sic] time. We will continue with that directive unless you would like us to do something different. I have not had any official word on the investigation of our police department but my understanding is that Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard has formally requested that the Department of Justice Alberto Gonzalas [sic] investigate the Colorado City/Hildale police Department for civil rights violations.

    Also on the 19th of October, Arizona Police Officers Standard and Training board will meet to decide to decertify Sam and Vance. I do not know exactly what we have ahead of us but I do know that I and all of the other officers have expressed our desire to stand with you and the priesthood. I fill [sic] that without priesthood I am nothing. The community has been getting harassed by many news reporters. They are asking us why no one will talk to them. As law enforcement we get many calls and I have explained to them that the media have never told the truth about this people and that the people are not trying to justify themselves to the world. One more thing, I have received several calls from Washington County Detective Nolan Grey about the 2 [name withheld] girls, [names withheld] that have been reported missing. He stated that The Division [sic] of Missing and Exploited Children are wanting to get involved.

    I need to report on the family that has been placed in my care. As I reported in my last letter we had a beautiful little son. We now have 3 girls and 3 boys, myself and Rebecca White Barlow Jeffs, making 8 total in our family. Our son Fred Jr. has started school this year at Twin City Academy. We have been reading both morning and night and have felt how much sweeter the family has been. I am praying for you to be protected and yearn to be with you again. I know that God is the helm and that his work will go forward. I rejoice in the tests and hope and pray that I will not offend God. I pray to be always filled with his spirit and to live by inspiration. I hope to hear any directives that you have for me. I know that I still have thing to purge out of my life and have bee [sic] striving to get them out. I know that Heavenly Fathers help I can succeed. I love you and acknowledge you as my priesthood head. And I know that you have the right to rule in all aspects of my life. I yearn to hear from you.

    Note: This letter was first published by the Salt Lake City Tribune within an article titled “Letter from Fred Barlow Jeffs” December 7, 2006

  23. Thanks Boots,

    Its always good (scary!?) to see how completely Warren had control over lifes there.

    It seems that Fred Barlow had his tail between his legs while he licked Warrens boots.

    Guess he had seen too many mens families stolen, he didnt want to be next!

    But as I see it, just another part the grand conspioacy, all there in black and white!

  24. And as far as the polygamists claims that SCOTUS would overturn the country’s federal law against polygamy, well they had a chance in 2007 to do just that but refused.

    Published by Associated Content
    February 27, 2007 http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/163128/united_states_supreme_court_declines.html

    United States Supreme Court Declines to Legalize Polygamy

    By Mark White

    Polygamist Had Sought Rights Under the Court’s 2003 Ruling Involving Homosexual Rights
    The United States Supreme Court on Monday declined to hear an appeal of a case that might have recognized a right of polygamy, according to the Christian Science Monitor. The court declined to hear an appeal by a Utah man who sought to have his bigamy conviction overturned because of the Court’s landmark 2003 ruling on homosexual rights.

    As a result, the state of Utah’s bigamy law was upheld, even though it clashes with the religious beliefs of some in the state.

    Some Christians, including representatives of the Alliance Defense Fund (ADF), a Christian legal agency which had filed a brief in the case, praised the decision to not hear the case.

    “Polygamy is no mere social taboo,” Alliance Defense Fund Senior Counsel Chris Stovall said in a press release for the ADF. “It is destructive on multiple levels, and the court was right to turn down review of this attempt to attack appropriate protections of marriage.”

    He noted that the case involving homosexuality in 2003 involved criminal prosecution for private acts, but the case involving Rodney Holm, the man prosecuted for bigamy by Utah had lived openly and simultaneously in various households.

    Holm had been prosecuted by Utah for participating in both “religious marriages” and his legal marriage. Holm and his “wives” did not seek legal recognition of the “religious marriages,” and he claimed that under the 2003 Supreme Court decision involving homosexuality, the Lawrence case, the state’s prosecution of him was unconstitutional. He claimed the prosecution denied his personal liberty.

    The ADF had argued that the Supreme Court need not hear the case nor consider legalizing polygamy.

    Stovall said the Supreme Court wisely declined to hear the case involving polygamy and did not need to create a recipe for “social disorder.” He said state polygamy laws created by state legislatures protect marriage.

    Raymond Berry, one of the attorneys who represented Holm, said there are “literally thousands of people in Utah” who will now have to look over their shoulders in fear because the Supreme Court declined to hear the case that might have legalized polygamy. He said they will now have a fear that Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff may come after them as he did Holm. He compared the people to “turtles” who would put their heads in the ground and stay out of the public eye.

    According to the Christian Science Monitor, there are an estimated 37,000 polygamists in Arizona, California, Colorado, Idaho, Montana, Nevada, South Dakota, and Utah.

    In the case involving homosexuality, Lawrence v. Texas, the Court ruled against the Texas sodomy law and that homosexual adults inTexas were not subject to government interference because of their lifestyle. In a dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia, warned that the Supreme Court would, as a result, face legal challenges to state-statues involving same sex marriage, polygamy, prostitution, and others.

    ================================================================

    If the SCOTUS thinks it is okay to leave polygamy illegal, why is no one being prosecuted for the crime? What’s going on with the Utah and Arizona AGs, or in the U.S. Justice Department?

    Why does the Utah AG feel comfortable enough to start a whole Saftey Net Committee, full of pro-polygamists and award them state funding?

    Why is Shurtleff still so comfortable with not prosecuting the crime of polygamy that he sends his representative to a town hall meeting in Saint George, Utah after the rescue and ask for volunteers from the polygamists attending it to be quickly certified as foster families, in case he could convince Texas to release all the children to them?

  25. This is why I have said it before and I will keep saying it: It is up to the Texas people to protect their children from the crime of polygamy. No one else is going to help us, and that includes the FEDS.

    I am very interested in Greetings idea to find a way for the private sector to push for RICO. Unfortunately we don’t seem to have the deep pockets or political influence that NOW had in the Operation Rescue case.

    NOW’s position was that the abortion clinics were a money making business and that the continual protests outside abortion clinic doors were impeding their ability to make money from their trade, and was cutting into their profits.

    Gee, maybey Schleicher County could argue that by performing all those “spiritual marriages” they are being duped out of the marriage lisence application fees they would normally be collecting,lol?

  26. Boots you asked some questions about why no one is prosecuting the crime of polygamy and it’s associated ills.

    Here are my three theories:

    Mormons
    I can’t help but think that this comes back to the fact that most of the officials in Utah and Arizona are LDS as is the U.S. District Attorney for Utah Brett Tollman, who was born in Provo, Utah. I’ve also heard that the US Attorneys office and the FBI and CIA draw many of their employess from Brigham Young University because of the high number of bilingual/multiculture students. Also, the indocrination practices that men and women go through while serving LDS missions make them excellent candidates. As you probably know, when serving missions their lives are regulated closely and their schedules rigidly structured.

    Cost
    State officials and the federal government don’t want to investigate and prosecute the crimes would be the expense involved and the uncertainty about how many children will need care if additional raids are necessary.

    Embarassment and shame
    The public may find out the extent of criminal activity that has occurred (and probably is still occuring). I know that my faith in government and law enforcement has been severely shaken by what we already know.

    My fourth theory would be ALL OF THE ABOVE.

    Boots said “I am very interested in Greetings idea to find a way for the private sector to push for RICO. Unfortunately we don’t seem to have the deep pockets or political influence that NOW had in the Operation Rescue case.”

    We’ve got to find some way to get constant media attention. Anyone want to plan some sort of protests? I’m near Short Creek, and would be happy to hear some ideas on where and when would be a good place to protest.

  27. Keep it clean Curious, you’re on probationary status! – ADMIN

  28. without sin…

  29. Curious,

    Yet, like every decent Rabbi I have ever known, he turned over a few tables as well.

    He loved justice, especially for children.

  30. Bingo. This is why he is the Creator, and loves the creation of children, and said: “Let the little children come”. But in America, you slay them and call it democracy. So you are right, justice will come, and especially for the children.

  31. Or in FLDS case, they give the Little children to Adult sexual preditors to satisfy their urges curious, were you one of those Adult males?

  32. Curious,

    Again you go off on a tangent, which has nothing to do with the subject of the abused children of polygamy.

    You rail against the nation that gives us freedom and accuse everyone here of being responsible for the abortions performed in this country.

    So my question is, as an American, besides not having one yourself, what have you ever done about it yourself? Have you written letters, signed petitions, donated money to pro-life organizations, taken in or cared for a mother in crisis pregancy, leaving the tough decisions to her and loving her unconditionally no matter what her choices are, risked jail time for criminal tresspassing or having your assets frozen under RICO, or been put on trial yourself for standing up with a sign outside of an abortion clinic?

    Your rhetoric about caring for children or for that matter, any human being is so empty as to be pathetic.

    Destruction of innocent children is unacceptable to a true humanist, whether it be through forced poverty, late term abortion, or abuse and molestation.

    Nothing about you convinces anyone here that you care about the lives of children except to use them up for your own warped purposes and wrap it all in a package of freedom of religion.

    You accuse all of us here for being responsible, and yet you don’t even consider than many of us here have done more to help protect children than you’ll ever dream of. You want to come at me for abortion? Cool. First you’ll have to get past my “record”, which I will proudly stand on.

    1. Proud birth mother who made “the choice” to give up 9 months of my own life, give my child life and a beautiful family through making an adoption plan at birth.

    2. Early member of Operation Rescue who went dumpster diving for the whole bodies of aborted children so they could be given burial with dignity.

    3. Arrested for criminal tresspassing outside of clinic in Dallas, refused to pay the $50 bail and spent 11 days deep in Dallas County Jail as the only white woman in my cell [never had problem one with my cell mates, btw].

    4. Chose to be tried by a jury of my peers for the offense and was the first pro-lifer EVER to be given a deal of time served rather than an extended sentence for my crime of civil disobedience.

    5. Spent two years as a counselor at a crisis pregnancy center, helping other women facing “the choice”.

    6. Shared publicly, on TV, the reunification with my birth daughter at the age of 19, and the blessings I have experienced from “the choice” of adoption.

    7. Regularly went camping by myself up in the Smoky Mountains hoping against hope that freak Eric Rudolf would wander up to my campsite so I could smack him upside the head with an iron skillet, throw him in the back of my trunk and get him back down to turn him in, for the reward money AND so he could get the CHAIR for his murderous fanaticism.

    8. Cultivated true non-jugemental friendships with people of opposing views on the abortion issue, so we could engage in meaningful dialogue on the subject.

    So curious, as soon as you can show us all ANY real record of caring about children beyond forcing your women to have them continually, without rest, access to birth control, or consideration of whether the family can truly afford them without government assistance, I’ll be glad to listen.

    Until then, everything you say is empty.

  33. Boots said this on June 30, 2009 at 10:36 AM
    So curious, as soon as you can show us all ANY real record of caring about children beyond forcing your women to have them continually, without rest, access to birth control, or consideration of whether the family can truly afford them without government assistance, I’ll be glad to listen. Until then, everything you say is empty.

    REPLY: “Any real record of caring beyond (childbearing)”?
    The only way that a woman can be saved is through childbearing. Are you Christian. Do you know this law? “She shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith…” (I Tim.2:15).

    That’s FLDS, childbearing and continuing in faith, as the world has clearly seen, not changing the strict and sweet word or law, but living it strictly and sweetly, no matter what. Now, others may (and doo doo) bitch about it, but you don’t bitch for the FLDS women, but only for yourselves, being dogs as Christ points out here: Matt.15:26.

    Here, we can see that the FLDS follow after the ancient bearer of Life, Adam, Michael, which is God. Any doubts of that. I will post an article tomorrow proving this to be the case.

    As for all your good works, what does the Lord say about that? Quote:
    “There are NONE GOOD but the Father” (Mark 10:18).
    “All have done evil, continually” (Romans 5:12).
    “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity” (Matt.7:22-23).

    So, if one wants to blast their own horn on the mountain tops, they’d best consider the steep cliff that they are dangling from. The fact that you are ultra-defensive against an ultra-conservative community for living their religion, and doing as Christ does, is most telling. Addressing your above complaints toward the FLDS, what does Christ do?
    As for casting off evil in children that has “Crept in unawares” (Jude 1:4), Christ also casts them off, to wit:
    34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
    35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
    36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
    37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
    38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
    39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
    40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
    41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; (Matt.10).

    Is this “Railing”, as you put it, and “Abuse of children”? You are now fighting against Christ, an Anti-Christ, amidst all your “good works”. Good intensions? “The road to hell is paved with good intensions”. It is NOT abuse to cast off what is destroying the family, “crept in unawares”. Quite the opposite. It is fatal abuse if you let the rotten apples stay to destroy the whole bushel, the entire family, don’t you agree?

    As for who is responsible for abortions, all you support a government and laws that make that possible, the serial killing of 4,000 little children every day, and who support the kidnapping of 450 screaming FLDS children and the destroying of their families, are you not party to the crimes, saying that I “rail against the nation that gives us freedom”! Do you see your crime?

    Then you ask: “What have YOU ever done about it”. I bled for you at war in Vietnam. I went to war for you, and not through some draft either. I joined to fight for your freedom, and went down in a helicopter in the war zone, and was almost shipped home in a body bag, for starters. Since then, I have sought to clean up my own mind and body and life, and to show how it is done through the Words of the Lord. Abuse of children? It is the ultimate abuse against children to be fighting against that.

    You ask if I have donated money, written letters, etc. for pro-life. The FLDS have done FAR MORE: They create life abundantly, and the world saw how healthy and happy they really are, or were until your gleeful mass kidnapping came. Did you also know, that the “conservative Republican stance on abortion is death to the babies if the mother is uncomfortable with the pregnancy or some how in “danger”, what you call a “crisis-pregnancy, and loving her no matter what her choice”. Your words, girly. So you really identify with THAT. Whoever has ever supported that policy is a direct party to the crime.

    You say you were “put on trial yourself for standing up with a sign outside of an abortion clinic”. “Whoso seeketh after a sign, saith the Lord, is an adulterous generation” (Matt. 12:39). It must go far beyond holding up signs and throwing money that you really have no idea where it really goes. How about living it, having as many children as God desires to give, saying “Let the little children come, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven” (Matt.19:14). If it is the number of children that you profess a desire to save and to give life to, then you’d probably have to become FLDS and do what’s right in the first place. And you call this: “Rhetoric for caring for children” (end quote).

    No, the FLDS go far beyond rhetoric, and the world knows that. YOU know it. With the FLDS it is all action, while you seek her abortion, if that is her choice as you put it: Quote: “No matter what her choice is”. Also, if you “criminal trespassed” as you say, I guess that makes you a criminal. I thought you sustained the law of our freedom-giving government, as you put it. So what does Christ say of you? “Ye hypocrits, depart into the pit, I never knew you”. Again, as you yourself put it: “Your rhetoric is so empty as to be pathetic” (end quote), and “Nothing about you convinces anyone” (end quote). Some “record” you’ve got there, girlie.

  34. street, you are nearly out of chances.

  35. Curious,

    Thanks for sharing. Every time you do it people here can see a little more of your craziness.

    Nope, I’m not a Christian, but I have many dear friends and family who are, and they demonstrate it in their lives daily. Thanks for your service to our country, beond that you’ll get no thanks from me for anything you represent.

    Yes, I do also have friends who are pro-abortion rights, and yes I will still offer unconditional love to any woman who chooses abortion for her option. Unlike yourself, and your itty bitty delerium induced god I am capable of loving and accepting those I don’t agree with.

    I did the crime; then I did the time.

    Hope you and yours [male and female] here in Texas are ready do the same.

  36. They HAVE done the same, and ARE doing the same, going to prison for the freedom and truth of religious faith, the same as Christ did, and all the prophets.

  37. Curious PLEASE don’t compare criminal actitivity with Christ!!
    Flds don’t have prophets, they have profiteers!

  38. “I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

    Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom” (Daniel 7:21).

  39. All who keep the strictness of His Law are as Christ, branded a criminal, and indeed do profit. You don’t ever use any scripture to show where the FLDS violate anything. You just use the opinions and corruptions of men to sustain your rhetoric. Why is that. Are you afraid of His Law?

  40. street

    How many of them need to go to prison before they change their mind?

    Warrens mouth Willie said they wouldnt do it any more. (child brides)

    Why do you think he folded so easy, because it was just a lie?

    Or you think they got the message? Because YOU certainly havent, but then, youre not going to prison yet either.

  41. Until we have LE actually arresting them for the crime of polygamy itself, they are going to jail for their molestation and abuse of children, dude.

    If your argument [and it wouldn’t surprise me at all] is that they have a right to molest and abuse children because their religion demands it of them, go for it!

  42. Curious, You use very little actual scripture,you use the Book of Mormon. The actual word of GOD isn’t the book by Joseph Smith. NO one But the Son (Christ) holds the keys to the kingdom.

  43. The Mosaic law was for the Israelites, Not the gentiles of which YOU are one, as I am one.
    It is the Christ who gave the gift of Salvation to the gentile curious, no one else, not even joseph smith.
    The commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself was about loving everyone, regardless of race, color or religion.
    Who do FLDS love other than their Prophet,or themselves?

  44. Concerned, I would like to counter every Biblical mistruth you speak, but I already have a full-time job.

    But as to the peculiar verse of 1 Tim 2:15, nobody truly knows what it means. It perhaps refers to the role of Artemis, one of whose titles was “Soteira” or “Savior”—the same Greek root as used in that passage—because she was the deliverer of infants. Thus Plutarch wrote that the first temple of Artemis at Ephesus “took fire and was burnt while its mistress was absent, assisting at the birth of Alexander.” Women of Ephesus routinely prayed to Artemis for deliverance during childbirth. (Childbirth, up until modern times, was terrifying and dangerous for women, with mortality rates ranging from 1-40% in different historical studies. In comparison, the rate is 11 in 100,000 in the US today.)

    We know that Paul was keenly aware of the cult of Artemis of Ephesus, and that this epistle was sent to Timothy in Ephesus.

    So what I think Paul was saying was, “You don’t have to pray to Artemis to be saved as you go through childbirth. Just maintain your faith, love and holiness, and you will be fine.”

    Your interpretation is illogical as it flatly contradicts many passages of Scripture.

  45. Oyvey, folks, let’s just leave him alone in regards to his crazy religion. Anyone with one lick of sense can see he’s a fanatic who uses it as an excuse to abuse women and children.

    As soon as we realise that women and children make up almost 2/3rds of the world’s population, we’ll be able to get ourselves out from under freaks like this, from ANY religion.

  46. Oh, and GFNY, thanks, at least your post was coherant, interesting and made some historical sense.

    You’re right about the historical risks. That was the whole reason for dowaries before marriage. Every woman who consented to wed was doing so with the knowledge that her life was put at very serious risk from the union.

  47. Tis no abuse to protect them and to not allow sexual relations. That’s FLDS, the fundamentals of a saint. Anyone who has sexual relations with an underage girl, a middle-aged girl, or an old wrinkled-up gwanma, is NOT a saint, and are cast off. We have seen the FLDS prophets cast off men, women, and children, for this reason, and for other crimes, in strict accordance to the law (Matt.10:34). This the world is now well aware of.

  48. deputydog1 said this on June 30, 2009 at 5:04 PM

    Curious, You use very little actual scripture,you use the Book of Mormon. The actual word of GOD isn’t the book by Joseph Smith. NO one But the Son (Christ) holds the keys to the kingdom.

    REPLAAAAAAAA: You think? Okay fokes, go back the past 2 days, 2 weeks, and 2 months, and see if you can find ONE reference to the BOM. No, I am using strickly your own law-book. Anyone with eyeballs can see that ALL the references are to that law, YOUR LAW, from which came the pure original laws of the United States.

  49. street

    “Anyone who has sexual relations with an underage girl, a middle-aged girl, or an old wrinkled-up gwanma, is NOT a saint, and are cast off.”

    —————-

    Why were YOU cast off? What was the main reason? “Not attend meeting” isnt a reason.

  50. Boots, I enjoy it. It’s as if he finds every little inexplicable corner where the joins between Greek and English or Hebrew and English don’t line up straight, and constructs a fantastic miniature edifice in them.

    Most of the time the answer is fairly simple, if he would just realize that he is reading a translation of a book originally written in another language and another time and that sometimes the meaning must be teased out using scholarship, not mad thinking.

    This is why there are innumerable translations of ancient works, a fact which should be obvious to anyone with an education, but which may not be if you don’t understand the first thing about linguistics.

    Anyway, I can’t let an assertion like, “The Bible says women are saved through childbirth” stand.

  51. OK, I’m Curious and I can’t help myself. Do you REALLY think that children are born without sexual intercourse?

  52. The sad thing is that he was probably taught all these twisted interpretations and they are not his alone.

  53. We’ve read Warrens dictations, the weird theology runs deep.

  54. GFNY, I can see you enjoy it and admire you for it, too. I don’t blame you one bit for not letting that one slide.

    I often find myself in the curious position, for a Jew anyway, of defending Christians. In my opinion Christianity has done more to help women and give them freedom than any other faith in history.

    I have great admiration in my heart for real Christians.

  55. OK, Curious, if the FLDS are blameless, how do you square the FLDS practice of usurping apostatized men’s property with the last commandment: “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.”

    (There is a vast difference between shunning and stealing.)

    And since you are aware that having sex with underage girls is illegal, as is peonage, how do you square their continued practice with the following:

    “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.” (Romans 13:1)

    “Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.” (1 Peter 2:12-14)

  56. Boots, I notice he never answers me.

    I believe that feminism is a powerful force in Christianity, starting with Jesus himself. He called Mary Magdalene to be ‘the apostle to the apostles’ and he surrounded himself with strong and intelligent women.

    I missed the part where he said to any of them, “You must bear children to be born again,” or to their husbands, “You must have three wives to be born again.”

    But I do distinctly remember the part where Paul proclaims, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”

    A lot of our misconceptions about gender roles come from a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of the household in the ancient world. The home was the primary engine of the economy, education, and religious practice, so for a woman to have dominion in it was no small thing. The early church fathers unfortunately dragged Christian doctrine into the swamp of misogyny, from which it’s never fully escaped.

  57. Advice to not allow something or someone to have dominion over you has a very different interpretation for a Buddhist. It is more a reminder that we all choose where to focus our attention.

    Or, in the ancient words of Bodhidsatva, “Don’t have a cow, man.”

  58. CURIOUS REPLY: “Any real record of caring beyond (childbearing)”?
    The only way that a woman can be saved is through childbearing. Are you Christian. Do you know this law? “She shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith…” (I Tim.2:15).

    MY REPLY: Verse 2:15 is not a law Street. If that is a law then the following verses are too:

    You can’t cherry pick verses Street.

    3:1 Faithful is the saying, If a man seeketh the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
    3:2 The bishop therefore must be without reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, orderly, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
    3:3 no brawler, no striker; but gentle, not contentious, no lover of money;
    3:4 one that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
    3:5 (but if a man knoweth not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
    3:6 not a novice, lest being puffed up he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

    In Verse 1 Timoty 2:15 my American Standard Bible reads like this
    2:15 but she shall be preserved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

    Jesus Christ saves men and women Street, not childbearing or multiple marriages.

  59. Regarding THE LAW….Street

    Galatians 3: 21-29
    3:18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no more of promise: but God hath granted it to Abraham by promise.
    3:19 What then is the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise hath been made; and it was ordained through angels by the hand of a mediator.
    3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one; but God is one. 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could make alive, verily righteousness would have been of the law.
    3:22 But the scriptures shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
    3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 3:24 So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    3:25 But now faith that is come, we are no longer under a tutor.
    3:26 For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
    3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ.
    3:28 There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus.
    3:29 And if ye are Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, heirs according to promise.

    Chapter 4
    Here comes the best part Street….
    4:1 But I say that so long as the heir is a child, he differeth nothing from a bondservant though he is lord of all;
    4:2 but is under guardians and stewards until the day appointed of the father.
    4:3 So we also, when we were children, were held in bondage under the rudiments of the world:
    4:4 but when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law,
    4:5 that he might redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
    4:6 And because ye are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
    4:7 So that thou art no longer a bondservant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.

  60. You tell it, sister!

  61. This tells a little story.. Page 3

    “Background

    Unfortunately, sexual violence occurs in our society with
    much more regularity than many recognize. Sadly, its
    impacts can be very severe on victims and their families.

    Sexual violence often leaves in its wake both
    physical and psychological impacts for those who are
    victimized. Physical impacts may include chronic pelvic
    pain, gastrointestinal disorders, back pain, and facial
    pain.

    In up to a third of the cases, the victim may contract
    a sexually transmitted disease, including HIV. One
    study estimates over 32,000 pregnancies per year are
    the result of sexual violence.

    Psychological impacts include symptoms similar to Post-traumatic Stress
    Disorder(PTSD), such as emotional detachment, sleep
    disturbances, and flashbacks.

    Immediate reactions
    may include shock, disbelief, fear, anxiety, or withdrawal.
    Victims are also at an increased risk of experiencing
    depression and may be more likely to attempt or commit
    suicide

    As heinous as these impacts are, many Utahns would
    be surprised how common these crimes are. Of the
    violent crimes that occur in Utah, rape is the only one in
    which Utah’s rate is above the nation’s average.

    http://www.justice.utah.gov/Research/SexOffender/RapeInUtah.pdf

  62. Greetings from New York said this on June 30, 2009 at 6:04 PM & 6:24 PM:

    OK, Curious, if the FLDS are blameless, how do you square the FLDS practice of usurping apostatized men’s property with the last commandment: “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.” REPLY: You square it with the square. ALL FLDS know that all things belong to God, and are therefore consecrated unto God, according to the Word of God. That being the case, we ALL give up ownership of house, wife, servant, ox, donkey, jackass, and anything that IS your neighbor.
    GFNY: (There is a vast difference between shunning and stealing.) And since you are aware that having sex with underage girls is illegal, as is peonage, how do you square their continued practice with the following: “Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.” (Romans 13:1): REPLY: Woops! You forgot something in Romans 13! Shame on you! In fact, it is in the very next verse (2): “Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God”, and that means “WHOSOEVER”, including the governing authorities. Therefore, where there is continual scandal in government that we now see to day, the resist the ordinance of God, which is the Word of God, and have become law unto themselves. Yes, there are still those in government who “are not a terror to good” (verse 3), and those are the ones who scandalous officials and the people must always answer to, for they come packed with some degree of legitimacy.

    GFNY: “Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.” (1 Peter 2:12-14). REPLY: The answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind. The answer is blowing in the wind, in the very verse itself, to wit: Submis yourselves FOR THE LORD’S SAKE. See, if officials are just scandalous for their own sakes, then that moment they cease to be and to have authority. Very simple, yes? Not complicated at all to the intelligent, and those seeking intelligence, vs those grasping for pretext and so many arguments out of context.
    GFNY: Boots, I notice he never answers me. REPLY: Pardon the delay, fokes. Like the Supreme Court, rulings of import take time. Patience, my little man, my little gal. Take a deeeeeep breath, and wait upon the Lord (Luke 12:36). And you will find the Lord when you find His true prophet (Acts 3:21): “God hath spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN”.

    GFNY: I believe that feminism is a powerful force in Christianity, starting with Jesus himself. He called Mary Magdalene to be ‘the apostle to the apostles’ and he surrounded himself with strong and intelligent women. REPLY: Where my dear, does he ever call Mary, or any woman, to be an apostle. OOPS, you forgot the citation, me lady. Come on, spit it out, and please not with too much saliva.

    GFNY: I missed the part where he said to any of them, “You must bear children to be born again,” or to their husbands, “You must have three wives to be born again.” REPLY: Yes you did, you missed to totally. Such a fine confession. Street pats GFNY on the widdo, butt not too hard. However, I shall be gracious enough to answer thee (burp: Oh my gracious, pardon me). As for the first, to be born is to bear, and to bear is to be born. It is the yin and the yang of creation. Secondly, three wives are also crucial to thy eternal birth, for there are “THREE MOTHERS” of the Tree of Life: Mem, Alef, and Shin. Huhhhhhh! Huh notting. Look it up. You got Google. Goo goo away. Break just one of the three links, and like any electrical or spiritual circuit, you have broken the flow of life and rebirth.

    GRNY: Butt, I do distinctly remember the part where Paul proclaims, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” REPLY: IF…IF you belong. Are you FLDS, that is to say, Fundamentally a Saint, according to the fundamentals? Do you belong tis the question.

    GFNY: A lot of our misconceptions about gender roles come from a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of the household in the ancient world. The home was the primary engine of the economy, education, and religious practice, so for a woman to have dominion in it was no small thing. The early church fathers unfortunately dragged Christian doctrine into the swamp of misogyny, from which it’s never fully escaped. REPLY: That is correct. There is intelligence is GFNY’s words: “The misconceptions come for a fundamental (or fundamentalist) misunderstanding. Well put. All the world has seen the FLDS household, and how it is “a primary engine in their economy, education, and religious practice, and the dominion of the women” (end quote). So well put. This is why so many FLDS critics complained when the women were in the forefront of the raid upon the family, and not the men. This is cosmic. God is female, cosmically speaking (Binah: Michael-Adam, all Life-Form), his Father Christ being the male (Chokmah: Jehovah-Christ, all Life-Force, or the string-energy of all creation.

  63. Betty Boo Bop said this on June 30, 2009 at 6:39 PM
    Advice to not allow something or someone to have dominion over you has a very different interpretation for a Buddhist. It is more a reminder that we all choose where to focus our attention. Or, in the ancient words of Bodhidsatva, “Don’t have a cow, man.” REPLY: This only refers to sin, to wit: “For sin shall not have dominion over you” (Romans 6:14). This does not mean that God and his prophets should not have dominion, for they surely will and do, to wit: “He makes us kings and priest unto God and His Father. To HIM be glory and dominion forever and ever” (Rev.1:6).

    Yes, but how does that relate to prophets, they who keep all of His Word? We have the answer in Daniel, where the Lord gives the example of a king manifesting dominion in His prophets, to wit: “I make a decree, that in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel” (Dan.6:26). “Not that we have dominion over your faith, but are helpers of your joy, for by faith ye stand” (2 Cor. 1:24). “But the saints of the Most High shall take the Kingdom, and possess the Kingdom forever, even forever and ever” (Dan. 7:18).

    The beast (UK-USA) shall speak great words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and think to change times (of adulthood) and laws (as in marriage): But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. And the Kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the Kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High, whose Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him (Dan.7:25).

  64. EDIT – ADMIN

    Again

  65. SusieQ said this on June 30, 2009 at 7:54 PM
    SUSIEQ: In Verse 1 Timoty 2:15 my American Standard Bible reads like this. 2:15 but she shall be preserved through her child-bearing, if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.

    Jesus Christ saves men and women Street, not childbearing or multiple marriages. REPLY: Let us let Jesus Christ say how He saves men and women, and who, okay? He saves only an elect few, to wit: “Except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved. But for THE ELECT sake, those days shall be shortened” (Matt. 24:22). From the above, you can all see what Christ has said and done regarding wives and seed. “I receive NOT testimony from man, but these things I say, that ye MIGHT be saved” (John 5:34). The world beholds that the FLDS is standing by their faith, no matter what: “Thy FAITH hath saved thee” (Luke 18:42). And whoso endureth (in that faith) to the end, shall be saved” (Matt.10:22).

    SusieQ said this on June 30, 2009 at 8:06 PM
    Regarding THE LAW….Street
    Galatians 3: 21-29
    3:18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no more of promise: but God hath granted it to Abraham by promise. REPLY: Very good, ”If thou keepest the righteousness of the law (Rom.2:26), not the corruption of the law, see? “By the deeds of the law, there shall no flesh be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin” (3:20). “For Christ is THE END OF THE LAW” (10:4).

    3:19 What then is the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise hath been made; and it was ordained through angels by the hand of a mediator. REPLY: Very good. See, the law is because of transgression, UNTIL THE SEED COMES, and much seed has come through the promise granted to Abraham, to the FLDS Church, if ye “do the works of Abraham” (Rev.2:19, 2:26). The Hebrew for “Works” is Harac: “To overthrow, to loom up”. The Greek is Ergon: “Toil, Deed”. Nothing is more toil than large spiritual families, who loom up as fine linen from a loom, and overthrow darkness.

    3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one; but God is one. 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could make alive, verily righteousness would have been of the law. REPLY: See? Not a mediator of just one (wife), but of many, the man being the one. The law of God is in union with the promise, being righteous: That is, being on the right or conservative side of issues, the FLDS being branded by the world as “ultra-conservative”.

    3:22 But the scriptures shut up all things under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. REPLY: See? You must believe it, and particularly seeing that it accords with the Word of God.

    3:23 But before faith came, we were kept in ward under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. 3:24 So that the law is become our tutor to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

    3:25 But now faith that is come, we are no longer under a tutor.
    3:26 For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
    3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ did put on Christ.

    3:28 There can be neither Jew nor Greek, there can be neither bond nor free, there can be no male and female; for ye all are one man in Christ Jesus. REPLY: There you go, the One Man Doctrine.

    3:29 And if ye are Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, heirs according to promise.

  66. Awh curious, you poor brainwashed person you!! Everything you said sounds good if it were true, but it isnt true. You everything belongs to God and Everyone in FLDS give up everything, their houses, their time, their money, their families, wives, children, cows, chickens etc…
    But alas, this is so untrue!!! What did John Wayman give up? What did Wendell Nielson give up? What has Merril Jessop given up?
    What did Rulon Jeffs or Warren Jeffs give up???
    They all had their pick of wives, including other men’s wives, they all have not just ONE HUGE house but several. These Leadership men “gave up nothing” but indeed took everything!!!
    God is very angry with Flds, because they made idols out of thier leaders. The people weren’t worshipping God, they were worshipping MEN! There were pictures of Warren Jeffs in every room in every house.. Thats idol worship Curious!! Personally If I were FLDS I would be VERY afraid, because God almighty is a jealous God, and he won’t allow people who say they belong to him, worship a MAN!

  67. Truman Barlow collected taxes from Flds members,and then pocketed it. Where I come from thats called STealing!

  68. DD: All is given up to God, through the Prophet, the steward over His House, as the Lord says, to wit:

    Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us BY HIS SERVANTS the prophets (Daniel 9:10).

    And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth (Rev.11:18).

    He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints (Rev.13:10).

  69. And with all that, I rest my case.

    If you love your freedom, if you love democracy and want it passed to your daughters and grand daughters, please stand up NOW. Please help us to STOP POLYGAMY in Texas, and then the rest of the country.

    If you do nothing your great grandaughters will look back on the freedoms you have today as a golden age of womens rights, and it will be gone…like the wind.

  70. Ever see the movie, “Gone With The Wind”. Quite beautiful, actually. The FLDS women will tell you that no woman has more rights than they, while American citizen are losing all their right and their jobs and their entire economy, and being slain in foreign wars, and facing daily turmoil at home. Why is that?

  71. Yeah, Curious, I’ve seen it and read it, even own a first edition copy.

    My cousin, Margaret won a Pulitzer Prize for writing it, too;) I’ve been told I look just like her mother, my Aunt Maybelle.

    She used to like to scare the Hell out of every man in Atlanta, threatening to get women the right to vote.

    Looks like she won.

  72. A woman in FLDS has NO rights, she is the scrap of her husband, no chance in hell of celestial heaven or anything else unless she is married.

  73. DD,

    He already knows that. That’s how he likes his women, nice and sexually, submissively, enslaved.

    He needs those slaves, or he can’t get to heaven.

    Wait..rut ro…since he was kicked out, now he’s just doomed to Hell!

    Awwww, hate it for ya bubba, really that’s a tough break.

  74. ““There are NONE GOOD but the Father” (Mark 10:18).”

    Well, since Street is no good (I mean he’s part of “none” too, right?) why should anyone pay attention to him? He’s no good, evil, even, and we all know that evil people work for the devil and therefor all of his windy, evil posts are trying to lead all of us “desiring to do good” people astray. I suggest we ignore him as the evil, no good person he is.

  75. All mankind is fallen, and that is evil, until they repent and git baptised, and git the old-time religion inum.

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