~ by FLDS TEXAS on May 23, 2009.
Posted in The Evidence
Oddly there wasnt one case of fumarase deficiency found as COD.
Perhaps I missed one.
FLDS TEXAS said this on May 23, 2009 at 6:12 AM
Well a lot of them have no COD listed, and I don’t know that fumarase would be what is listed … maybe that is the reason behind all the SIDS or stillbirths or “flu”
Lots of car and tractor accidents.
Anonymous said this on May 23, 2009 at 6:15 AM
I jumped to page 4, lots of children died, without comment on why.
One 2 year old died twice, had the flu and then got ran over.
Anonymous said this on May 23, 2009 at 6:17 AM
Mary Cooke and Elmer Johnson had eight children stillborn.
Stamp said this on May 23, 2009 at 6:34 AM
on page 8
Stamp said this on May 23, 2009 at 6:35 AM
This list was compiled by Flora, who did the research herself. Some information just isn’t available. When I contacted the state of Arizona, to ask about death certificates, I was told it was considered private information, for immediate family only. When I asked about autopsy reports for the children who had been run over there, I was told in the state of Arizona that no autopsies were performed when someone dies in a non-traffic fatality, as long as the police have filled out an accident report. That means each of the children ran over had their deaths signed off on, by a Colorado City Police officer. No coroner was ever called, and not one body was ever examined by such.
I’ve always wondered about the 2 year old that died from drinking “pure hydrogen peroxide”, which for some reson was in their refrigerator? Have you ever tried to get a 2 year old to take medicine? Hydrogen peroxide is not exactly a “yummy drink”.
Also, in 1976, a 40 year old is listed as having “run over self” and it was explained this way, the guy’s car must have got stuck in the dirt, he opened the door to look at the front tire and apparently ran over his own head, but was found sitting up in the front seat with a crushed skull., no autopsy…Hmmmm.
Then of course there is the matter of no domestic violence ever being reported or prosecuted there…must be the sweetest, kindest place in America to live, don’t you think?
Boots said this on May 23, 2009 at 2:46 PM
The guy who ran over himself is a interesting story. I was a kid when it happened, but my mother was telling me about it 2 months ago when we were bs’n. He had a load of gates on his truck when he left CC to go sell them up and down US89. He was found next to his truck. The truck was empty and so was his wallet which sould have had several hundred dollars if he had sold the gates. This wasnt around CC, Tropic area from memory. Larry was the type of guy that would of stuck the truck in gear then climbed out to push ect. My dad told me the story of him going to a resturant ond ordering hot water, then stirring in ketchup and eating it with saltines as tomato soup. All the items where free so he ate for nothing.
Anonymous said this on May 23, 2009 at 9:27 PM
How does a guy run over himself?
FLDS TEXAS said this on May 23, 2009 at 10:41 PM
I dunno, but if anon is right, and it didn’t happen in CC at all, wouldn’t there have been some sort of an investigation that produced some sort of plausible answer to his death?
It’s like the whole community stepped out of the twilight zone where people die and no one cares to know what actually cased it. Ran over yourself? No problem. Drank poison? No problem. Drown in a community that “doesn’t believe in swimming”? No problem. Instead of don’t worry be happy, their motto seems to be don’t worry, keep sweet, never ask questions, and it will all be fine.
Oddly enough, it seems to have worked out quite well for them these last 50 years.
Boots said this on May 23, 2009 at 10:50 PM
How to run over yoursef: stick truck in gear climb out and push the truck out the trip as you are trying to get back in
Anonymous said this on May 24, 2009 at 12:21 AM
So he was unable to avoid it, yet “He was found next to his truck.”
That must have been one very slow rollover, or maybe his truck was like a dog, came back, and wouldn’t leave it’s owner’s side?
Boots said this on May 24, 2009 at 12:34 AM
Childhood deaths in those high percentages do not happen anywhere but 3rd-world countries, I don’t think.
I have to wonder what they’re doing over at that YFZ breeding compound in Texas. There was only one birth registered over all those years.
I recall seeing a place where they’d mounded boulders and wondering what was buried beneath all that.
Deaths. well there were children killed in a truck because they weren’t seat belted and another child who died whose father wasn’t allowed to see him before he died nor attend his funeral, something to do with that squabble over turning that emerging wheat crop under up at Short Creek.
Oh, and that other “accident” where they’re sueing one another’s insurance company to sca, the insurance companies or whatever it is they’ver trying to do.
Texas has different laws. To have a cemetery it has to be public, and it has to only have registered legal burials oh and yeah that gate has to be open like 8 to 5 for the public to visit graves.
I forget if that’s the historical society or genealogy society or archaeology stuff but I’ve run across it somewhere in Texas.
GrannyToad said this on May 24, 2009 at 3:29 AM
sca = scam no way to fix mistakes, sorry.
GrannyToad said this on May 24, 2009 at 3:31 AM
god people next to, under, infront of, behind, I wasnt there just heard the story. this is a blog boots get a life
[Watch the personal attacks please – Admin]
Anonymous said this on May 24, 2009 at 4:31 AM
Oh I’ve got a beautiful life, sugar. It consists of being true to myself, my family, friends and faith.
Just because you don’t like what I’m doing with my life doesn’t mean it isn’t what I’m going to keep doing with it.
Welcome to Texas and get used to it.
Boots said this on May 24, 2009 at 4:38 AM
Cadaver dogs were brought onto the YFZ and nothing was found. There were also rumors of an incenerator on property, which were found to be untrue.
I just want to make sure we stick to facts and not rumors or allegations.
Boots said this on May 24, 2009 at 4:45 AM
There is an incinerator. It was used to burn drafts of sacred texts.
FLDS TEXAS said this on May 24, 2009 at 5:56 AM
Its rather disturbing to see the high death rate amomgst young children and there isnt any inquest?
Do they REALLY have the Government snookered THAT much!??
Stamp said this on May 24, 2009 at 12:01 PM
Wasn’t that YFZ incinerator built for their illegal cement plant?
GrannyToad said this on May 24, 2009 at 12:25 PM
Not snookered honey. Bought and paid for. They’ve been in that town for a hundred years and their pockets are millions deep. Do you really think that can’t buy you anything in a community already sympathetic to the “lifestyle”, because they are also desended from polygamists themselves?
I’ve been trying for a year now to get Texans to understand that the YFZ did not pop up like a mushroom over night. These people came from somewhere. The residents of the YFZ are Warren’s most loyal, hand picked and obediant followers. This didn’t happen in a vacuum. Simple things slip by Texans because they don’t understand the history.
When I saw the wife of the preacher from the First Baptist Church of Eldorado, on TV after the rescue, waxing on about how beautiful all the women were, how their skin was flawless and their faces so pretty, and how none of them were old or overweight… I was sitting there shaking my head, thinking to myself, “Like duh, because the leaders of Eldorado were all given the prettiest concubines. Go up to Colorado City and you’ll see pleanty of dirt poor, aged early, overweight, bad skined women. They somehow just weren’t “assigned” to the elite of Eldorado, but to the poor schlobs left behind in Colorado City.
I have evidence that the Mohave County Sheriff was allowing Warren Jeffs to keep a phone and laptop in his cell in MOhave County, during the first Grand Jury hearings in San Angelo. As soon as I sent a freedom of information form to Sheriff Tom Sheahan, now on his fourth unopposed elected term, Warren was rushed in a helicopter to a hospital in Nevada…and the phone and laptop magically disappeared when he came back 24 hours later. The hospital in Kingman turned him away, saying they couldn’t find anything to treat him for…so the helicoptered him to Vegas for the night, and the hospital there also found no reason to keep him.
I’ve been out of the way for a while now, he probably has his phone and laptop back…zipping along on the http://www…instructing his faithful…
Yeah, hon, that’s exactly what I am saying. It’s THAT corrupt and crooked up there, on both sides, Utah and Arizona. You tell me a county sheriff in Texas that would see a list or a cemetery like that…and say, “Nope. Nothing hinky here. More children must die because they have more children”. Yeah, what-ever.
Boots said this on May 24, 2009 at 3:22 PM
i think they were hoping eldorado would be some backwards community that wouldn’t care what they did. they found out they were wrong. as for the sheriff in mohave county letting warren have his cell phone and laptop, so long as he let all the other prisoners have the same access to electronics, he should be ok. if he didn’t, then he needs to be reported to whomever you report corrupt authorites to. warren and his followers should spend a little time with sheriff joe. then they’d learn what prison was all about.
Anonymous said this on May 24, 2009 at 6:37 PM
My repeated calls and messages to the Arizona AG’s office, and even the U.S. AG’s office and FBI were never answered, nor returned. I’ve found it is hard to turn someone in, when no one in government responsible for that sort of thing will even take your calls.
I still have a firm eyewitness, who was in the jail and saw him with both items. They are willing to sign a sworn statement, give a deposition, whatever it takes. Nobody is even interested.
Oh, and my freedom of information requests? I sent three of them in. After almost two weeks I called to ask where the were, and was told Sheriff Sheahan had them on his desk.
I have a copy of them, one asking for a list of all items allowed to Warren Steed Jeffs in his cell, including any telephonic or electronic devices. [I also have a copy of a Fort Worth Star Telegram interview of Sheriff Sheahan, published less than a month befoe I caught them with the laptop, saying that Warren was allowed no electronic devices in his cell]
One for a list of all prisoners incarcerated at the same time [more potential witnesses].
I also asked for a list of his visitors during that time period. I wanted to see which concubines he was favoring at the time.
What I got back was a Xeroxed copy of the official Mohave County Inmate Possessions pamphlet, with some sort of excuse for why they could not provide the prisoner list, and a copy of his visitors.
I was lucky enough to receive my packet of useless lies from the county, in the mail, on the day I was officially fired from my job at the resort & casino where I managed public relations…”For a personal conflict of interest”. No further explanation ever provided, thank you very much. I was waken by two friends banging on my door the day after I was put on 3 day suspension, pending termination. They were worried half sick to death about me, because they had been at a media dinner party the night before, and the local newspaper editor, and the county under sheriff were getting toasted and laughing their asses off, “about how easy it was to get k.Dee fired.”
Funny how the county sheriff’s office knew I was officially fired, two days before I did.
They thought getting me fired would make me go away. Funny how powerful men think they can just send women away, isn’t it? Perhaps they were under the impression that I was being permanently reassigned?
When my friends held my going away party in Nevada, they kept asking me what I was going to do.
I told them I was going home to Texas, to dig in like a TICK, and find a safe place to shoot from.
Boots said this on May 24, 2009 at 7:12 PM
holy kerap what a bunch of eyesols (that’s Texan)
GrannyToad said this on May 24, 2009 at 7:53 PM
Spoken here, sugar.
Boots said this on May 24, 2009 at 8:23 PM
WOW What a testimony – Keep at it, I beleive that all this will be exposed and more than a few FLDS influenced cops and politicians will suffer.
Shurtleff is gambling his political career on an FLDS agreement – I think its a bad gamble.
Stamp said this on May 24, 2009 at 8:46 PM
Yeah, and Chicago politicians will one day be pure as the driven snow, too.
Sorry, but I lived up there. They are concubine states and they will stay that way unless the U.S. Government threatens to go in there with troops to put an end to it, just like they did in the 1800’s.
In the mean time, I’ll do everything I can to prevent them from being left alone to practice their quaint religion that “hurts no one”, here in Texas for the next 50 years.
What nobody is getting is that this is a PR war. The FLDS won the last one in 1953. We cannot let them win this one, unless we want Texas children dying here, just like they do in Arizona and Utah.
I couldn’t sleep all night last night. I took a drive this morning and visited two old cemeteries near where I live. In one cemetery, even in the slaves’ portion, infants had headstones.
I suppose Mr. Bowman was a more respectful and compassionate slave owner than the FLDS men are to their concubine’s dead babies.
Does anyone remember in Carolyn’s book, when she had a very sick child, being told by Merrill to “pray about it”, but not take him to the doctor? Maybe I’m so sleep deprived now that I just think I remember that…
How many of the babies in the Colorado City cemetery got nothing but prayer I wonder?
Boots said this on May 24, 2009 at 9:22 PM
Boots is right. It’s time we push for an investigation of both cemetaries – the baby cemetary in Hildale and the Isaac Carling Memorial Cemetary in Colorado City.
Like Boots, I have been haunted by concerns about the cemetaries and large number of child deaths for four years now. Anyone want to get together to brainstorm some ideas for getting more media coverage about the lack of willingness of any law enforcement agency, local, state or federal to investigate this once and for all?
Anyone want to meet up
nearthecreek said this on May 24, 2009 at 10:01 PM
How do the FLDS get away with not having child deaths investigated? I thought all deaths required coroner inquest.
Maybe all pregnancies need to be monitered?
Stamp said this on May 24, 2009 at 10:42 PM
Does Schleicher county in Texas have a law that says all births need to be registered and all death’s need a death certificate registered? The last one might be a crooked thing to believe for they have their own Doc who might be willing to write anything on a death certificate. I know up here , in Michigan, you can not bury or cremate a person until all has been checked out first.
C-M said this on May 24, 2009 at 11:40 PM
I think the pet mormons have had this last secret for awhile, no news is good news ha ha but when the gov is found lacking in care who is gonna take the fall?
Neener Mouse said this on May 25, 2009 at 12:11 AM
How do the FLDS get away with not having child deaths investigated? I thought all deaths required coroner inquest.
Maybe all pregnancies need to be monitered?”
– It sounds like Boots has done alot of research re: these issues, but I’ll put in my two cents here. Utah state law (26-4-7)requires the medical examiner to take custody of the body for examination when someone has died under the following circumstances:
(1) by violence, gunshot, suicide, or accident unless the accident is a highway accident. If the death was from a highway accident, custody shall only be assumed if an autopsy is required or permitted under the provisions of Section 26-4-13 or if requested by the law enforcement agency with jurisdiction over the highway accident;
(2) sudden death while in apparent good health;
(3) unattended deaths, except that an autopsy may only be performed in accordance with the provisions of Subsection 26-4-9(3);
(4) under suspicious or unusual circumstances;
(5) resulting from poisoning or overdose of drugs;
(6) resulting from diseases that may constitute a threat to the public health;
(7) resulting from disease, injury, toxic effect, or unusual exertion incurred within the scope of the decedent’s employment;
(8) due to sudden infant death syndrome;
(9) resulting while the decedent was in prison, jail, police custody, the state hospital, or in a detention or medical facility operated for the treatment of the mentally ill, emotionally disturbed, or delinquent persons;
(10) associated with diagnostic or therapeutic procedures; or
(11) described in this section when request is made to assume custody by a county or district attorney or law enforcement agency in connection with a potential homicide investigation or prosecution.
In response to C-M, Texas state law requires that birth certificates be filed for all live births (Sec. 192.003) and
that death certificates be filed for all deaths including fetal deaths. (Sec. 193.003)
nearthecreek said this on May 25, 2009 at 12:28 AM
hmmmmm Seems Texas is better equipped to pay attention, it would be good if CPS kept track of pregnancies to ensure compliance.
Utah / Arizona need amendments to law that require determinations and medical examiner inquest of childbirth deaths, we have an emerging pandemic of genetic disease and all I have seen is the GOV with its head up its exhaust tail pipe.
Neener Mouse said this on May 25, 2009 at 1:25 AM
I was told by a representative of the health department in Mohave County, AZ, and the state, that non-traffic accidents, such as a driveway accident were not required to be autopsied. That may be different on the Utah side of the street.
One of my last completely unanswered communications regarding the issue, was to the NTHSA.
I turned the cemetery list over to both the Mohave County Sheriff, Tom Sheahan and the Mohave County Attorney, Matt Smith, in 2005. I handed Matt’s to him in person. He took one look at it, while we stood at the copier and started making excuses for how the list could look like that…maybe more adults moved away from CC, and were buried someplace else, etc..
A year later, when I had to sit through a dinner honoring Mr. Smith for his work on the CC issue, I stood up to ask him if any progress had been made on the cemetery issue. Right there in public he admitted they hadn’t had time or interest enough to investigate any of it. I was probably a good 50 feet away from him and he said, “Are you shaking, Mrs. Ignatin”?
Oh I was shaking alright, all over. I don’t think I stopped for an hour. Stunned, angry, horrified, scared…to name a few of the emotions I felt.
Yeah, Mr. Smith, I was shaking.
Some of the children at the YFZ did not have birth certificates. Does anyone remember some of the FLDS parents asking the state of Arizona to issue birth certificates after the raid? At least they refused to do that.
The Utah AG was up in Saint George, asking members of the safety Net [total joke of an org, run by polygamists, which is like putting foxes in charge of the chicken’s welfare] meetings if they would be willing to take the children from the raid into foster care if Texas would release them. They had all sorts of volunteers. The important thing was, of course, to keep them in polygamists families…even though I remember reading somewhere that polygamy is illeagl in this country.
Ladies and gentelmen, we have rescued several children from a drug house! Are there any drug dealers here who would be willing to be foster parents, so we can make sure they are raised by drug dealers, like they should be?
Up is down, down is up…what a rabbit hole this trip has been.
Boots said this on May 25, 2009 at 4:36 AM
Easy does it. I dont believe Warren has a phone and laptop in his prison cell. Let’s be careful about spreading unsubstantiated rumor.
FLDS TEXAS said this on May 25, 2009 at 9:45 AM
Ita known he DID have one until zip “it ws discovered” and taken away, I think I read about the time he melted down.
IRT the cemetery/ health issues of women and children, due to the fact the community has a high incident of child deaths, something needs to be done, either on the AG or Congressional level.
Reid called for an investigative team, the FLDS need one if only to protect themselves from themselves.
Stamp said this on May 25, 2009 at 11:53 AM
I knew someone who ran over themselves. They were drunk, stopped the car on a hill without putting it in neutral or putting on the brakes, got out and squatted in FRONT of the headlights. Woman died with her pants down on the side of the road. How embarasking.
Betty said this on May 25, 2009 at 2:05 PM
I do think it is possible to run over yourself. The thing that bothered me about the story was that the man, according to one account was found sitting inside the truck, and the account we heard here placed him next to his truck.
We’re just asking questions based on what we’ve been told. Questions, unless you have something to hide, are always a good thing.
Boots said this on May 25, 2009 at 2:26 PM
Because we don’t know how complete it is, this chart tells us nothing about the comparative mortality rates for different age groups in this community. It isn’t official information, so I have a hard time accepting it as accurate.
Currently, based on mortality rates among white children and a 2000 census estimate of 3200 kids, they should be averaging one death per year between ages 1-18. (A disproportionate number of these deaths are teen boys, sadly.)
Currently, based on mortality rates among white infants and a 2000 census estimate of 800 women of childbearing age, they should be averaging one infant death per year.
Those numbers would have been much smaller in previous years. Short Creek’s population rose from around 400 in 1953 to 5229 at the last census. (The offset from the decline in childhood mortality isn’t statistically significant.) Because population growth is exponential and it’s been decades since I thought about differential equations, I leave the regression analysis to someone else.
(If you want more accurate estimates, go to ftp://ftp.cdc.gov/pub/Health_Statistics/NCHS/Publications/NVSR/57_14/Table03.xls and figure them out yourself.)
Greetings from New York said this on May 25, 2009 at 4:09 PM
Thanks for the info Greetings. I really don’t know what to make of it either without a control sample
FLDS TEXAS said this on May 25, 2009 at 4:35 PM
Population growth is generally exponential but in the middle of the twentieth century there was a depopulation trend in rural America that is particularly apparent in Mohave County’s northern census district. (Utah changed its census districts too frequently for me to make sense of them.)
Hildale’s census makes one wonder how accurate the census is. Here are the four decades in which there is data for it:
Hard to see how any town could have that kind of wigglies.
Greetings from New York said this on May 25, 2009 at 6:46 PM
One of the hazzards of being an activist is in having people get tired of the song you are singing.
Unfortunately, sometimes, we just have to open our mouths and keep singing, even when it grows tiresome.
So here goes my same old song: population numbers are manipulated by the residents of Colorado City Arizona, and Hildale, Utah, just as they manipulate everything else in the towns. Until the arrival of Buster Johnson to the Mohave County Board of Supervisors, residents drew food stamps and benefits from both sides, Arizona and Utah.
The chorus goes like this:
Boots said this on May 25, 2009 at 7:08 PM
Those were some strange figures, GFNY. I’ve mostly been dealing with older censuses these past few days and the main thing that came to mind was that many families on 1860 census with young men near teens to 40s disappeared off the record ahem. They knew a draft was coming. 1870 still not everyone was back on the rolls, and just like the loyalists during the Revolution and War of 1812-14 some went (or were driven off to) Canada.
Then you picked up 1970 … 1990 … what am I supposed to think eh? Well it’s not as if FLDS has a good records of volunteering for US military service …
GrannyToad said this on May 25, 2009 at 8:58 PM
And the other thing is yep it’s My Opinion that FLDS’ intention isto jack with the government, state & federal. Maybe those years with higher populations then wanted something from the fed like some block block grant of OPM (Other People’s Money) or whatever. But they don’t figger the guvmint needs to know anything about them that the guvmint can tax.
GrannyToad said this on May 25, 2009 at 9:43 PM
Smile and say: RICO waiting to happen;)
December 2006 Press Release from Mohave County Supervisor, Dist.III, Buster D. Johnson…
Call for RICO against FLDS Controlled Cops
MOHAVE COUNTY SUPERVISOR CALLS FOR FEDERAL ACTION AGAINST FLDS AND CONTROLLED COPS
Buster Johnson, supervisor, District 3 of Mohave County, Arizona responded today to media reports that the Utah Peace Officer Standards and Training Council, based on the contents of an intercepted letter, has voted to conduct a probe of the entire Hildale/Colorado City police force. The chief law enforcer in the two border towns, Fred Barlow, has admitted to being the author of the letter to Warren Jeffs, which Federal authorities obtained on Oct. 28, 2005, when Jeffs’ brother, Seth Jeffs, was arrested in Colorado.
“This comes as no surprise to any of us who have been involved trying to help the women and children of Colorado City. It has been no secret that the police force has always been the enforcement arm for their “prophet”. The department has always been used to track down those brave enough to escape, monitor daily activities of the people, keep outsiders out and as a harassment tool to keep those who are rebelling in line by arresting them on bogus charges, placing women in mental institutions, facilitating the reassignment of wives to new husbands and issuing citations for imagined traffic violations. Those who have escaped and try to come back to visit family are especially targeted by so called law enforcement. The FLDS has been protected by the department, especially when it comes to crimes committed against those who have left. The comparisons to Hitler’s SS are uncanny.
The only thing that surprises me is that this letter comes as a surprise to anyone. We have been asking for help because of the obvious corruption of the Colorado City police for years. Our requests have been ignored. Law enforcement representatives from the Federal, state and county level have even gone on public record in support of the likes of Marshal Sam Barlow when he was under investigation, a man who failed to report to the state over 20 cases of child molestation reported to him.
When I posed the question as to whether we could decertify the entire department I was told Arizona can only decertify one officer at a time. There are plenty more to take their place. When you realize that this department has access to the same supposed secure and confidential information as any other professional law enforcement agency it is frightening. Their department has even been awarded homeland security grants for equipment such as satellite phones. When you combine these with high tech weapons you start to understand the tremendous and frightening power that is exerted over the people of Colorado City.
It’s time for the Federal government to pull their heads out of the sand, quit sitting on their hands and start processing the RICO Act against the FLDS.”
Supervisor Johnson has been actively involved in the investigation of alleged abuses by the polygamist community in the ten years since his election. He may be reached for interviews or further comment at: 928-453-0724 or email@example.com*
His updated email is firstname.lastname@example.org
Boots said this on May 25, 2009 at 9:48 PM
Tell us more how Buster has helped stop FLDS welfare fraud!
Stamp said this on May 26, 2009 at 12:30 PM
Okay, I’ll head on over to the open discussion area sometime today and try to give y’all a run down of the changes since Buster’s arrival on the board.
Boots said this on May 26, 2009 at 4:03 PM
Thanks Boots – and please pass on our best wishes and kudos for his efforts!
Stamp said this on May 26, 2009 at 5:05 PM
Okay, one more comment before I leave this area alone and go where I should be, lol.
Buster Johnson struck me from the moment of our first contact as an extraordinary man, especially as a politician. The courage he has shown, and personal sacrifices he’s made are nothing short of inspiring.
But the one piece of personal information about him that pushed me right over the edge to completely supporting him was this:
His daddy was from Brownwood, Texas!
That was good enough for me;)
Boots said this on May 26, 2009 at 5:31 PM
In regards to Greetings from New York’s census data: I doubt if the 1990 census is accurate. A lot of people must not have participated in the census. I was living in the area at that time and it probably should have been higher.
In regards to Boots comment on May 25 where she states, “So here goes my same old song: population numbers are manipulated by the residents of Colorado City Arizona, and Hildale, Utah, just as they manipulate everything else in the towns. Until the arrival of Buster Johnson to the Mohave County Board of Supervisors, residents drew food stamps and benefits from both sides, Arizona and Utah.”
I don’t know where you get your information and I’m sure that some people committed food stamp fraud, but the Phoenix Sun researched the issue of welfare usage in Colorado City as compared to the rest of the state and found that the usage was lower in Colorado City, except in relation to medical.
Dear GrannyToad, you have been very misinformed in regards to military service on the part of those in Colorado City and Hildale. Those people, as well as the blacks, have had a disproportionate amount of people taken from their community during the drafts. 100% of all eligible young men from Colorado City and Hildale were drafted from until the government changed the way that the draft was done. This changed because the blacks realized that they (the blacks) were being targeted in the drafts and protested. If you don’t believe that our government did things like this, look at some old draft registrations. I think it was the WWII draft registrations which actually had written on them to turn [or cut off (I don’t remember which)] a certain corner of the card if the registree was black. They must have applied this practise to those who lived in Colorado City and Hildale, also.
As to the number of stillborn children in that community, you need to realize that they even buried their miscarriages. Most people in most communities would have let the hospitals just throw them away.
I’m not going to follow this particular thread because I know that you people are going to believe whatever you want to believe and most of you are not really interested in the truth.
trampledon said this on May 26, 2009 at 6:42 PM
Q: “I don’t know where you get your information and I’m sure that some people committed food stamp fraud, but the Phoenix Sun researched the issue of welfare usage in Colorado City as compared to the rest of the state and found that the usage was lower in Colorado City, except in relation to medical”
A: No, sugar, that’s incorrect. The problem doesn’t just not exists or go away because there were no prosecutions. There were many collecting from both sides. There was never any prosecution for the crimes, but they were found. Just because someone has the political power or money to make a problem “go away” legally, doesn’t mean it never happened. It only means there is obvious corruption, and that no one has enough integrity or courage to expose the truth…at some very disturbingly high levels of power.
From Prescott Daily Courier – a four part series written by Al Herron June of 2003
Arizona’s AHCCCS program provides most of the medical insurance for residents in Colorado City AZ. Last year over 4,000 residents were enrolled, costing the state about $8 million a year. I don¹t know what Utah does for those across the line in Hildale.
About half of the fundamentalists receive food stamps, compared to five percent statewide. This costs the state and federal governments over $3 million a year for those polygamists in Arizona.
Five years ago there were no Colorado City children getting child care assistance, but last year there were about 200 — which cost the state another $600,000. These benefits can be paid to care-providers who are related to the children, so sometimes one wife can get paid for taking care of another wife¹s kids.
Colorado City gets back about eight dollars in benefits for every dollar the residents pay in state taxes, while for the rest of Mohave County it¹s about one for one.
In the well publicized case of Tom Green and his five wives in Utah, the state documented that the Green family received $647,000 between 1989 and 1999. Then they estimated that the grand total (for a longer period) was over $1 million — just for this one family….
You can google the full four part article if you like.
As for my not wanting to “know the truth”?
I’ll trust people to make their own judgments of me on that one. I can tell you this much, I’ve cried myself to sleep plenty, truly wishing that I didn’t know some of the things I do.
Boots said this on May 26, 2009 at 7:27 PM
Maybe you should talk to some of the women who left Flds. For instance, Pam Black told about her still born child, whome they wanted to put in a plastic bag and toss in the trash. She said they had done that many time with stillborn children. But she threw a fit, and demanded her still born child be buried in the cemetary.
Maybe you should get your facts straight first?
deputydog1 said this on May 26, 2009 at 8:44 PM
Oh, I almost forgot, Pam Black said the reason Flds did this was because they are told a still born child has no “soul”
This list frustrates me because I can’t accept it without verification. To me that means a complete list of deaths in the community and accurate census figures since 1928, when the first death on this list was recorded. To assess its accuracy, I would also need some idea of the methodology used in creating it. (These are not onerous demands; they are typical for research.)
I think this list is a work-in-progress. Valuable as research and I applaud FJ for creating it, but it doesn’t stand on its own as research.
A list can ‘prove’ that too many children are dying if:
1. It doesn’t list every death in the community;
2. Entries are ‘double-booked’;
3. The community is larger than the census shows it to be.
The first year of life is extremely fraught. Mortality rates are much higher then than they will be for decades following. They are probably even higher in communities which don’t have neonatal ICUs.
Vital records are PUBLIC records, and not recording them with the county is a crime. If you can show that births and deaths haven’t been recorded, you need to bring that information to the relevant state agency (here it would be the Department of Health).
Has anyone checked this list against the vital records in Washington and Mohave Counties? Vital records are available to the public. In New York, in addition to being available at the County Clerk’s Office, they are published in the ‘newspaper of record’ for each county and old records are viewable on microfiche at the county library.
Greetings from New York said this on May 27, 2009 at 1:09 AM
I agree with everything you have said. If you would like to read about my initial investigation, a narrative of my initial investigation can be found at the bottom of the page titled “Child Deaths”.
Yes, I went to vital records. yes, I went to the local and state health departments, yes, I went to the county attorney, sheriff and special investigator…yes, yes, yes.
And there has still never been an investigation. I am about to submit another freedom of information request to Mohave County, for the results of the investigation they [publicly] claim they did. It will be interesting to see what they send me, since no investigation of this nature exists at all.
Maybe you could ask the Public health Clinic in Hildale? Oh, wait, I’ve been there. It is surrounded by a 12 foot security fence with cameras, and no one who isn’t a member of the FLDS is allowed in for treatment. Funny how that clinic is listed as being a place you can go for AIDS testing, according to the Utah Department of Health. The CC Police Officer that cornered me and Flora wouldn’t have let us in for our AIDS test either.
Boots said this on May 27, 2009 at 1:22 AM
Pardon my ignorance, Boots, but what page titled “Child Deaths”?
Greetings from New York said this on May 27, 2009 at 1:33 AM
Just click on the ‘Child Deaths’ tab, and scroll to the bottom for a narrative of events as I experienced them.
Boots said this on May 27, 2009 at 1:39 AM
I think if you click on my handle “Boots” it will take you to the site, sugar.
Boots said this on May 27, 2009 at 1:42 AM
trampledon thanks for the entertainment. I was born at night but not /last/ night.
I’m a PreWar (WWII) model and even I know when the draft ended and since I was born Army Air Corps I also know you lied about blacks in the military. Yes I did say also. My father retired military. My husband retired with 50 years DoD service. You’re welcome.
GrannyToad said this on May 27, 2009 at 1:53 AM
I’m sorry but I did not lie about blacks in the military. That was one of the shameful things that our government did to the blacks. Like I said, look up some of the old draft cards. It was either WWI draft or WWII. As a genealogist, I came across that interesting piece of information. I also am older than the hills and remember the blacks protesting the unfair draft practices.
The reason I returned to this site is because I thought it might help some of you to realize that in 2000 the median age in Colorado City was 5 years old.
trampledon said this on May 27, 2009 at 3:00 PM
Colorado City, AZ has a median resident age: 14.3 years.
I know this because when a representative from the U.N. looked at it they were stunned, and concerned that this is a gross anomaly, they’ve found nowhere else in the world.
Boots said this on May 27, 2009 at 3:08 PM
The average age is probably 65 now that Warren scooted all the kiddies to the YFZ sex commune.
Stamp said this on May 27, 2009 at 4:34 PM
LOL! I don’t think they’re exactly running out of children up there. Remember, they need them to keep doing what they do.
Boots said this on May 27, 2009 at 4:40 PM
Pesky little slaves, I suppose they begrudge feeding them too!
Stamp said this on May 27, 2009 at 4:57 PM
I don’t know about that, but I do know the poverty created by the cultural practice of polygamy is real, worldwide.
Boots said this on May 27, 2009 at 5:06 PM
Yeah they made WIC and foodstamps harder to give as tithes. Now they gotta feed the kids.
Stamp said this on May 27, 2009 at 5:57 PM
I have access to WWI and WWII draft cards online, tram.
GrannyToad said this on May 27, 2009 at 10:23 PM
YFZ Cemetery Vist: Access Denied
More on AAAP’s Blog
Boots said this on July 11, 2009 at 9:44 PM
I have done considerable reading on polygamy, recently, and feel that a FEDERAL INVESTIGATION is the only way we are ever going to stop this debauchery. It is, not by any stretch of the imagination, religion! Carolyn Jessop has written an excellent book: ESCAPE, and Flora Jesop has also done well with CHURCH OF LIES. I bought both books, and will be passing them around to anyone wanting to be informed of this travesty of justice. I am a retired victim advocate, and can see the roadblocks being thrown in front of anyone trying to promote truth, and who tries to rescue girls and women from this cesspool. I suppose many people wonder why women don’t speak out condemning polygamy, but the problem is that they have been raised from childhood to believe that it is the norm. I see a comparison of a child who has been molested from a young age, and who believes it is right. Keep in mind state (and Federal) law trumps Warren Jeffs “law”! Utah and Arizona both have a terrible record of ignoring the damages to women and children in the FLDS, so the Justice Dept. is our best hope, for now.
Anonymous said this on February 9, 2011 at 2:14 PM
Anonnymous your points are well taken but the nearest help will come from a ruling in Canada that their bigamy laws are constitutional and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms doesn’t include the harms done by this FLDS polygamy sect against their women and children. Senator Harry Reid held hearings two years ago on these very matters and has sponsored a Senate bill to fund and form a Intra-State Federal task force, it has lanquished as a priority given the other problems our country now faces. I agree that this is a Federal matter and needs broader powers to arrest this groups behaviors/practices/activities.
CAJim said this on February 9, 2011 at 2:28 PM
Anonymous – See the Affidavit of Prof Kent on the Canadian Reference Case thread. He has some data on the baby cemetery issue which you may find of interest.
Born in Brooklyn said this on February 9, 2011 at 2:32 PM
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