Parents of the Year?


I read on Bill M’s site that Lamar Johnson appealed his CPS ruling (reason to believe he and wife had abused and/or neglected their children) and got favorable ruling vacating the CPS “reason to believe” ruling.   First caveat:  I question the reliability of Medvecky’s statements as they tend to be less than trustworthy.   However, hypothetically, if he is right let’s take a look at the parenting abilities of Lamar Johnson and Marianne Holm Johnson.  

Permelia Johnson is the daughter of Lamar Johnson and Marianne Holm.  Permelia was born June 1988.   Permelia was married to WARREN STEED JEFFS on January 26, 2004 — making her 15 years old — for Time and Eternity.  The marriage took place in the home of Wendell Nielson and in the presence of the blushing bride’s own father,    Lamar Johnson.

Here’s what Warren said about it on January 27, 2004:

I started calling people and started to go through the most direct and faith exerting experience of receIvmg two wives, Rulon Barlow’s thirteen-year-old daughter, Loretta Jane Barlow, and LaMar Johnson’s fifteen year old daughter, Permelia. I interviewed them, the girls were willing, the parents rejoiced, and the Lord chose these two girls to join us at Rl in establishing Zion in its fulness.


Ten marriages were performed, which should be written in the record, and then a training was given to four Canadians — Jim Oler, Macrae Oler, and Spencer Blackmore and Macrae Blackmore, also Jacob Johnson — LaMar’s son, Rulon Jessop Jr., Joseph Jessop — Edson Jessop’s and Gloria Steed’s son, Allen Dockstater — the son of James Franklin Dockstater, and Isaac Jeffs present and Naomie was present. I first interviewed each one individually, hearing their testimonies, feeling confident that they were to keep confidence about the places of refuge. And I had a two hour session, which was recorded. All entered into the covenant of the United Order and to keep sacred things secret concerning what I had said on the places of refuge.


Janet, Wendell’s wife, my sister, wanted to ask questions. I had given a training at the lunch table on how to qualify for Zion. She asked more questions, and I assured her that she could prepare quickly. 


I met with LeRoy Jeffs before I left and had him deposit checks into the bank for the Church account. I had William Jessop present during some of the weddings, the bishop, and then went over many issues with him settling people in different houses. He voiced concern about William Steed still connecting with his wives socially after being separated, William Steed not holding Priesthood.


After the meeting I talked to Jim Oler, and he informed me that James Blackmore, Brandon’s son, had come to him confessing that he simply had been sexually attracted to Mother Ora during the month that she was in Canada. He touched her, kissed her on the cheek once, and wondered if he needed to be rebaptized and restored. I rejoiced in the Lord that these men received the training.


I arranged to pick up these two girls. I had told David Allred to go rent a motor home for a trip to RI with these two young ladies, Loretta Jane and Permelia. I had Seth drive myself and Permelia to meet the motor home. Isaac to take Naomie and get Loretta and we met at the rendevous place and then we drove to RI, arriving past midnight. I had called ahead and had the ladies here prepare a bedroom for each of these young girls, and everybody was late getting to bed, except Mother Merilyn was already in bed.


In August 2004, Warren wrote this note to Permelia:


9:06 p.m. Message to Permelia


Hello Permelia. I am asking if you desire to stay here at RI. Get close to me as a wife in every way, fervent in faith and stop your hesitation and fears and fulfill this mission withholding nothing. Or would you like to go to RI7, another land of refuge where you can have time and place to work hard and learn to exert greater faith? If you stay and will not abide your covenants and get close to me and if any have to be sent away after this they could lose everything. So make your choice and write me a note. Thank you. And I love you.


On December 23, 2005, Warren mentions Permelia Johnson again — he is apparently not pleased with this now-16 year old:



After some dinner, I had the ladies in my room while Naomie rested. I again was impressed to give them a strong training and warning that they must not hesitate in their relationship with me, and they must overcome their fears and doubts. Then I was allowed to give Permelia some private training on getting close, and Naomie came about 1 :30 a.m. in the morning, early Thursday morning.


. . .

I was able to sit with the ladies and give them a little training on being fervent in order for me to come back there and that they were being judged. I told these ladies, “You will not want to be sent away from this land of refuge, because you would be sent away from this mission and you would have to live among the gentiles in a house in hiding. You will want to succeed at this place.” I observe in their ignorance these ladies who haven’t got close to me hardly know how to conduct themselves. Fern got closer, Permelia got closer, and so did Bonnie Lee get closer. The others all received the training. Jennifer got closer, to a degree. She needs the next ordinance of the love of God sealed within her before she can really progress. I did perform that ordinance of sealing the love of God upon Shanna Zitting Jeffs. I put that in the record. The other ladies in the home were witnesses. You can put Naomie and Fern as witnesses, if you need, on the record.


. . .

Also the Lord named Gladys, Ida Lorraine, and Permelia to leave at R17 and be moved to R23. Rich Allred will take them. It is marvelous how the Lord is directing things.




I’m not sure it is really a great idea to celebrate the virtue of parents who put their 15 year old daughters in this kind of situation.  I would call it abusive and neglectful, but maybe Permelia was unlucky enough to have turned 18 before Texas rode in the the rescue.


~ by FLDS TEXAS on May 6, 2009.

105 Responses to “Parents of the Year?”

  1. “I started calling people and started to go through the most direct and faith exerting experience of receIvmg two wives, Rulon Barlow’s thirteen-year-old daughter, Loretta Jane Barlow, and LaMar Johnson’s fifteen year old daughter, Permelia. I interviewed them, the girls were willing, the parents rejoiced,”

    Hmm they were all rejoicing, only to find out she wasnt ready for Warren?

    Yeah, that’ll be a good one to watch if they try to sue Texas!

    Sucks to have to tell the judge you gave up your 15 yr old daughter as a peice of meat to a geezer / lecher.

    Perhaps AZ will pick up jurisdiction and do something about it..

  2. Or Utah, where the “marriage” took place.

  3. How do you know it was Utah?

  4. BTW reading Warrens rants about how to relate with his women reminds me of some rich nerd who has ladies in waiting who want nothing to do with him.

    He is rich and all powerful but cant understand why his young beauties scatter like quail upon his approach.

  5. when did warren go on the run?

  6. which court would hear such an appeal of a CPS decision? i checked with schliecher county and they have nothing on record. also, billm moved his attorneys to dallas (supposedly) and its a miracle that they’ve passed the texas bar so quickly. makes one wonder if he isn’t just full of crap.

  7. Bill could be completely full of crap or the FLDS could be sppon-feeding him a whole bunch of lies. He’d print whatever they tell him.

    There’s no court of appeals for CPS findings. It’s an administrative review within the department of human services.

    I find it hard to believe, but not impossible. What I find impossible is Bill M’s nonsense about his lawyers and some fantasy suit he has against CPS. I think Bill’s a loose cannon and not even getting the scoop from the inside anymore – if he ever was.

  8. Stamp – records indicate the marriage took place in the home of Wendell Nielson in Hildale, Utah.

  9. Bill M. IMO, has a greatly exaggerated sense of his power and influence. He posted on TBM’s blog and they had an exchange about why Bill M. does not allow detractors to post on his site including TBM. Bill M. must be afraid that he might learn something new or different.

  10. fldstx

    THX, so Utah has jurisdiction, Shurtless, ya gonna sign a warrant?

    I wont hold my breath!


    Saw that exchange – TBM made multiple comments none of which were posted – so he gave up!

    No, Bill Movement just likes to hear himself MOVE.

  11. Gosh, this is some really juicy stuff. Wish we could get ahold of the dications and personal notes of dozen’s of other public figures, would love to see the California Guv’s private dications. Well we know they have free agency and no illegality indicated aside from what could be an underaged marriage-age 15, Utah in 2004?

    “Perhaps AZ will pick up jurisdiction and do something about it..”

    They can’t do anything about this if this doc is all they got. You think they should be put on trial and convicted with this journal entry being the sole piece of evidence? That is scary. Also since the FLDS are lying liars with WSJ being the chief fibber, we can’t even be sure everything in this entry is even true. Again, even if it is, we can’t say anyone was abused unless we get testimony from those involved.

  12. FLDS Texas – is there anyway to find out if what Bill says is true? I mean is it part of the open records to get that information from CPS?

  13. duane – go play with billm.

  14. duane

    There are a dozen men going to trial this year from YFZ, I presume they have plenty of evidence for convictions to satisfy even people like you.

  15. Maybe they do, I hope it is more than just dictations.
    I think there is something wrong posting private journals and diaries on the internet no matter was was written in it.

    If police searched a suspects house and found their diary with this entry “On July 8, 2008, I purchased 2 kilos of coke in Texas, then drove to arizona and sold it to some Mexican cartel members by the names of Ramos and Hernandez”, would that be enough to convict for drug smuggling without any other evidence?

  16. People who are engaged in criminal activity should not write detailed journals. The journals alone may not be enough to prove guilt, but they sure do give LE a lot of leads to follow up on. I think coke dealers are smart enough to not keep journals around. Fortunately Warren Jeffs was not that smart. “Yeah, I am on the fbi most wanted list for under age marriage issues. Lets see, I will go to YFZ and have ole Merril marry me to a tweener. Then I will put in my dictations, have pictures of it taken and leave ir all at YFZ or in my car for LE to find.” Smart Dude?? ROFL!!

  17. Chemist,
    There are some interesting theories as to why criminals do things like that, from large collectives like the Third Reich, down to individuals acting alone. Personally, I think immoral behavior is caused by psycho/spiritual dead spots, which also give rise to thoughtlessness and lack of attention. It is the secondary stupid behavior which finally gets the criminal in trouble: documenting Nazi war crimes, returning a rental car to get the deposit back after attempting to blow up the Twin Towers, and the petty criminal who burglarized the house next door to me, and then dropped his check book during the caper. I think it probably all stems from the state of mind. Although I’ve read others who attribute it to simple hubris.

  18. Judith, thanks for your comments. I think a lot of it is, as you said, arrogance on the criminal’s part. He is never going to get caught, he is way too smart for that. I know I read it, but don’t have a source at the moment, but warren apparently believed he would never be caught and was quite surprised when he was.

  19. Good post Judith

    I think it has become obvious Warren is a narcissistic sex predator, enabled by his position of power – He also was experiencing paranoia and sensed he wasnt “loved” like he should be (note his dictations above IRT his wives attentions to him) and to top it all off, IRT LE, he not only was careless he really didnt care – on purpose!

    Look at him now – it didnt take long as “Prophet” for him to ROYALLY screw the pooch.

  20. I KNOW there is EVERYTHING wrong posting private journals and diaries on the internet no matter was was written in it.

  21. I checked new cases filed with Appeals court, in All the districts, and I checked opinions filed.. Never saw any case of Lamar Johnson. Wonder if Bill has a court, or docket number?
    Personally I think he is blowing air out his kazoo!

  22. Oh come on NN,, your kidding?? There are diaries of Joesph Smith, and many of his wives on the internet, goof ball!!

  23. Rule #1 – If you dont want your diary on the internet, dont molest children and document it in said diary.

    And all should be good!

  24. deputydawg, about all them supposed flds sex offenders that you posted, what was it 50-60? Wrong! in AZ/UT, Rod Holm was the first to be convicted, then about 7 or 8, Kelly Fisher, Dan Barlow and a few others. If 60 FLDS members were registered sex offenders we would have already known, every time one is arrested it makes news. If 60, it would be Big News!

  25. This YFZ caper isnt big enough news for ya..?


    Say – did you read the dictations where Warren is having trouble getting his little girl wives to accept his advances? He wonders why they dont run to him!

    Ahh – they need “training” – and this after the “interview” with them to see if they are “willing”….

    Pretty nerdy for a pedalfile!

  26. Pop quiz duane!

    How many people were killed in the Colonial LeBaron caper?

  27. duaneh, Im sick of you calling me a liar. Look up the Utah Sex offender list yourself! And many many were convicted duaneh. I guess you didn’t realize, once your name is on the sex offender list, it’s there for as long as you live. They don’t take it off just because you served one day, or 5 yrs in prison.

  28. deputy

    duane is busy counting bodies laid to waste by those pesky LeBarons and their urge to kill each other!

    dont bother him!

  29. Deputydawg, I’m not calling you a liar but not everyone who is a barlow, allred, or jessop is flds.

    I’ve known about the Lebarons since the ’80’s, I lived in Houston when the double murders took place.

    I don’t see what it has to do with other polyg groups. There have been plenty of religious killers who weren’t mormon fundies.

  30. i agree with those who said that if you don’t want your dirty laundry aired, don’t commit crimes. when you commit a crime, all’s fair in love and law enforcement.

    as for the supposed appeal of lamar johnson, i called the local casa office and they said they hadn’t heard of an appeal being filed by any of the members, but if an appeal was filed there’d be a hearing, not just an administrative decision and they hadn’t heard of any hearings.

  31. more of billm’s crap:

    Was this the same appeals court that a legislator at the Human Services Committee hearing said they could ignore?

    The same one.

    As soon as my lawyers wake up, they are sending me the Appeal of Lamar to the Court, and the Court’s Decision on the matter.

    CPS can take this to the Supreme Court if they want to, but since the Appeal AND the Decision were almost identical to their first Ruling on the matter back in May, my Attorney’s don’t think the Supreme Court will even hear the matter.

    The Legal fact is that the children should never have been taken in the first place, and absent any evidence to the contrary, the only thing the Supreme Court could do is look stupid once again for ever getting involved in the raid in the first place.

    What I intend on doing is to send Kay Bailey Hutchinson copies of the Court’s Decisions as they come down and let her decide if the 35 million bucks Perry spent was a good idea.

    As a savvy politician, she can smell the blood in the water faster than any shark, and besides my good friend Randy the Whale, I’d like nothing better than to see Perry pack his bags and exit his burned out shell in disgrace.


    i think he’s gonna be hard pressed to get kay on his side.

  32. check out duaneh1’s response to tripleap’s blog entry about a spring fundraiser. and then follow his/her link

    this tells you what kind of person you dealing with

  33. Bill Mudpucky is full of crap! He likes to make up stuff!!

  34. BM “Mr. McMovement” is nothing but grain in a goose.

  35. I am not surprised that duane would post a link for a virulent racist organization. After all, he supports Warren and his racist rantings. He has also posted some comments that could hardly be interpeted any way other than being racial slurs.

  36. I bet duaneh didn’t know Rulon Jeffs married his OWN sister either after she left the Owen Allred group.

  37. i’m pretty sure incest is illegal in all 50 states. if rulon weren’t dead, he could have a cell adjoining his son.

  38. duane failed the quiz on how many people were killed in the Colonia LeBaron debacle.

    Close to 25 in the US and Mexico. There are still people in prison and fugitives from justice.

  39. Anon, I was just thinking the KKK could help out the AAA. Perhaps they could merge and call themseves the KAAAKK.
    Ok rulon married his own sister…whatever…he’s dead now.
    I don’t really care about about Warren, but will say his current conviction is a total railroad job. Who I do care about is the rank and file FLDS of which the vast majority are innocent of any crime whatsoever.

  40. I especially liked how Permelia had “free choice” in the matter. It sounds to me that she was being threatened with being sent to a house of hiding AND with having her loved ones excommunicated if she doesn’t submit to Warren’s advances:

    “Get close to me as a wife in every way, fervent in faith and stop your hesitation and fears and fulfill this mission withholding nothing. Or would you like to go to RI7, another land of refuge where you can have time and place to work hard and learn to exert greater faith? If you stay and will not abide your covenants and get close to me and if any have to be sent away after this they could lose everything. So make your choice and write me a note. Thank you. And I love you.”

    It’s those last words that churn my gut.

  41. Another model flds family to be help up to the public. And these are the best of the best of the flds families?

  42. Greetings

    Absolute CREEPY!

    duane, Warren aint innocent, and “ALL” those people ARENT innocent.

    Look at Babs, she gave her 12 yr old girl up as a peice of virgin meat.

    Nice little group huh?

    Of course they havent taken to killing each other off yet like the LeBaron clan (not thats public) anyway.

  43. Those Mexican desperados dont know what they got in to. They are dealing with a cult of killers.

  44. duaneh, who is paying you to post such garbage??? Mudpucky? The felon?

  45. Duane: It is an act of love to bring someone to repentance and restoration. It is an act of hatred to let them flounder in sin. I am not operating out of hatred for the FLDS; I want to see them restored to a healthy relationship with God.

    People who use their public image as a tool—as Warren did—have no right to complain when their image is used as a tool against them. Fame is a two-edged sword, my friend. And Warren’s dictations are being used against him precisely because he used them against others.

    Young Permelia—well, I hate that she has to have her life discussed in public forums. She really ought to blame your pal Mudpucky for that, though, since he’s the one who brought it up. I don’t hear a bit of condemnation for this girl here or anywhere else. I pray that she find restoration and healing, and that’s about all I or anyone else can do for her.

  46. Did you know for instance, Lorin Jeffs died, cheyenne Jeffs died, Clayne Jeffs committed suicide. These were young people. Can you imagine how difficult it was to have that many of your children die?

  47. Believe it or not, DD, the same repentance and restoration I want for the FLDS, I want for Duane as well. I know you all think I’m nuts, but I like him.

  48. David Wayman Jeffs died on Valentines day 2005. He was married.

  49. I have read this site for awhile now. I dont get why Bill Molestvecky would have a lawyer in Texas to sue CPS when he lives in FL. It does not even make any since. I am still wondering when we will get those pictures he gots of the helicopters flying close to the ranch and making the women and children run for cover. He is a nutter.

  50. Well, let us interview or have a chat with Permilia and see what she has to say about the matter and her life in general, until then I have no opinion on her personal life.

  51. LadySadie said this on May 7, 2009 at 1:35 AM

    Another model flds family to be help up to the public. And these are the best of the best of the flds families?

    Absolutely LadieSadie. These FLDS families ARE the best and they put the FUN in disFUNctional.

  52. have read this site for awhile now. I dont get why Bill Molestvecky would have a lawyer in Texas to sue CPS when he lives in FL. It does not even make any since. I am still wondering when we will get those pictures he gots of the helicopters flying close to the ranch and making the women and children run for cover. He is a nutter.
    Christina said this on May 7, 2009 at 3:10 AM (edit)

    It’s all a lie or a delusion. Bill has nothing at all to do with the CPS cases, and he is in no way related to anyone in the FLDS. He has no standing to anything at all related to any of these cases. And even if he did, he would lose. What I can’t understand is whether he really thinks he’s being scary or threatening and if he thinks that he’s fooling anyone.

    The Dallas lawyer fantasy tickles me.

  53. Greetings, you’re very kind. I like and admire your attitude.

  54. Mister Movement is just yapping up a tree at squirrels. He gives the FLDS false hope, such of which in the UEP for instance, has not served them well.

    So I reckon they deserve all the crazy Bill MadWhacky’s out there.

  55. BM is PWNED on his own site, to wit:

    Bill, someone is feeding you some bad stuff because CPS decisions aren’t taken to the same Court of Appeals that made the ruling in May.

    They might have appealed them somewhere, but it wasn’t to the Court of Appeals. They only hear criminal and civil cases from District Courts, not administrative rulings by CPS.

    3. justsayin on May 6th, 2009 at 5:32 pm”

  56. I think we’re paying too much attention to Mudpucky. There is a type who feeds on attention, and it doesn’t matter if it’s good or bad. I am certain Mudpucky loves when we discuss his outré behavior because it makes him feel like a player.

    I recognize the need to rebut his preposterous allegations, but we can do it without mentioning him any more than is absolutely necessary to make our point.

  57. Duane, I would give my eye teeth for the opportunity to talk with Permelia and others in her shoes. I wouldn’t be soliciting their viewpoints on the FLDS. I would talk with them about far more important things—who is God, what does he ask of his children, why does he love us?

    I hate child abuse and molestation, but far more than that I hate how God has been misrepresented to these people. In my personal view, this is the ultimate sin.

    (This is an extra-legal question; it has nothing to do with our right to our beliefs.)

  58. The way Warren uses the word ‘training’ makes me queasy. Especially when it is in reference to helping a young girl ‘get close’ to him.

  59. I posted in more detail on the fallacy of Grandpa Bile’s assertion on my blog.

  60. So YFZ ranch has changed its name,,, Texas Heritage Trust!!! hmm

  61. BM (Mr Movement) speaks through his anal orifice.


  62. LMAO

    BM has so much offal running through there a semi truck could park it in there.

  63. Texas Fundamental Heritage



    Tin Foil Hat Ranch

  64. when did they change the name?

  65. I’ll lay odds that it doesn’t have a dissolution clause…

  66. The exchange will likely create more problems than it cures.

    And how is this “Trust” protecting or supporting the beneficiary class that funded it back at the creek?

    Perhaps if they quit tithing they will rename it “Shart Crick East”..

  67. Thinking of someone …

    I wonder if Permelia aspired to higher education.

    I wonder, did Jeffs get what he wanted from that child, or did he lock her away like he has other non-compliant females?

    Didn’t Johnson have any more love or respect for an innocent child of his but to sell out her flesh like he did for some earthly favor?

    This is sickening.

  68. TxBluesMan’s take on this preposterous claim is well worth reading:

  69. Wow so James Jerry Jessop is PResident of the new trust in Texas and he is also treasurer, and Issac Jeffs is vice President, and Keith William Dutson Sr is secretary.
    Those in the trust own nothing, property, personal items or anything assciated with the trust.
    Member have NO right to partition anything from the trust. And the trust can be amended at Any time by Trustees, unamious vote.
    Members are required to give their time, money, materials to the trust..
    By the way the Notary that witnessed the signatures was D. Robert Barlow, a certified notary in Texas… LOL

  70. Here is the trust in its entirety

  71. Thanks for the link Deputydawg, Yeah they may own nothing but the point isssss!!!! If they don’t like it they can leave! They are adults, the trust is spelled out to them courtesy of the Eldorado rag so there are no if, ands, and buts about the terms. That is the way they want it, good for them.

  72. Good for them!! I hope they stay! If they lose out in Short Creek, hopefully they will all start migrating to Texas, buy up some more ranchs and expand. Also they need to be more active in local politics. Why am I so adamant about this? Because the state in all of its thuggery tried to drive them out, you guys want to crush them for no other reason than that they are FLDS, if some of them go to jail…so be it! There are plenty of others and almost all of them are good people…if any aren’t well every group has its bad apples. I love the way they organized the trust since it is sure to make the busybodie types really steamed!
    I hope they stay in Texas till hell freezes over!
    BTW not every Texan hates them!

  73. duane

    Remember Warren is their own worse enemy. When the man holding the keys mandates your destruction, look out!

    But hey, thats the way they like it, RIGHT!???

  74. All these three part names got me thinking of Jerry Lee Lewis. He got away with marrying his 13-year-old first cousin (once removed) in 1957, although it trashed his career. Today he’d do time, and rightly so.

    He was a stellar talent and I love the Sun Record sound, but I can’t listen to him any more because of the hash he made of his and others’ lives.

    In a similar vein, my mother’s house was built during the Civil War by a young doctor who became addicted to morphine and died in his parlor of an accidental overdose. Morphine wasn’t illegal, and estimates are that 400,000 Civil War veterans ended up addicted to the stuff.

    Times change. People learn. Folks gotta keep up.

  75. Warren never fought back, they took their UEP trust, tried to take all of their children, attempting to take all their economic assets, tried to run them from Texas, trying to smear Allen over something he allegedly did when he was a teenager which he should be forgiven for since according to Katch, he had no access to girls his own age and since he’s married now that won’t be a problem anymore…assuming of course, the allegations are true. Since no indictment i will assume they are false.
    Hopefully this trust is legally bulletproof and they don’t try to take it and kick them out of their homes at YFZ.

  76. Duane, honey, if I stop arguing with you will you stop saying stupid things?

    Want to know my personal, deeply held, completely spurious theory? He’s a manqué. In his heart of hearts, he cross-dresses and lets Naomie paddle him. Which is why he’s so pathetic.

  77. I don’t think the new “Trust” has anything to do with the exemption – I think it has to do with keeping assets out of the hands of would be judgment creditors

  78. So have they now changed their religous name from FLDS to UOT?

  79. Guess so. That’s a neat trick – wonder what the beliegs of the UOT are. Sounds a whole lot like FLDS. I imagine the Creekers aint too pleased about being excluded from the New Order like that. Or maybe the UOT is gonna let the Creekers be one of those branch offices they were talking about.

    Warrn should have gotten some lawyers involved when he was putting together this latest scheme ’cause that aint a valid trust 😉

  80. Gotta love all the language, to wit:

    “You can live here in our Oneness onlu if you are invited, and then you need to donate your Mind Body and Soul, see page22 of the D&C, chapter 3 verse 6, and dont you forget it!!

    PS duane, it aint bulletproof, like your last inane post.

    Their problems are just beginning. Just wait until the Creekers decide to quit paying their room, board and taxes.

  81. FLDS Texas, Well why don’t you ask the Crikkers then. I’d bet money they are pleased with this arrangement, they now have 2 major communities. It seems that YFZ was funded by tithes (donations) and the assets of the YFZ folks themselves. Since the UEP was a land trust, we know they didn’t drag real estate lots from Short creek to YFZ.
    Why is this trust not valid? Is it violating some trust law?
    How did Mankin get ahold of this trust doc, was it filed in court?
    Any more sources pertaining to the story behind this new trust.

  82. HA HA HA

    I read in the TRUST they renamed the Church!

    Holy Order Of Texas


  83. Stamp, how they choose to organize is not your problem.

    YFZ may be self substaining by now. Whatever the creekers decide to do or not do won’t be because of you Stamp.

    “PS duane, it aint bulletproof, like your last inane post.”
    I didn’t say it was, perhaps it is a rough draft.

    The good thing about this trust filiing is that they are here to stay, they seem to have been making a name for themselves in the construction business as their workmanship is excellent. So Texas won’t be able to get rid of them…too bad!

  84. FLDS TEXAS, can you give some highlights invalidating their notion of a “trust” in Texas, please?

  85. Duane – yes it was filed with the county. It’s not a valid trust because the settlors are jerry, isaac and keith and they’re attempting to transfer into the trust real property (the ranch) that they don’t own! You can’t transfer someone else’s property.
    There are various other problems with it. It says the “Church” is a common law trust – which it is not. Among other things. More later.

  86. Can one of you other guys start a new thread for discussion about the “Trust”. TIA.

  87. duane,


    Of course its my business! Its funny! Wait till Jay Leno gets ahold of it!

  88. BTW the new thread on the “Trusts” has been started!

    Similar but different. Whats AMAZING is that Brooke hasnt noticed the FLDS changed HQ and teh NAME!

    This is huge – and as noted, the trust has multiple legal failings, they need to perform another 6 months of work to get it halfway right – they are trying to CYA but its too little too late.

  89. Is there a site or blog somewhere that has the pictures of these personalitites with the names at YFZ and FLDS?

  90. FLDS Texas, maybe jerry, isaac, and keith own it now, was transferred (given) to them by YFZ LLC.

  91. Naw, duane, they change names on documents, like they change underwear. Those names will be changed after the trials of the 12. If all are convicted, Warren will have to decide whose names will be on the NEW documents.

    John Wayman loaned flds 900K, so Im sure his name will end up there somewhere, espeically if he doesn’t get his money back, LOL

  92. I bet the trust will have Merril’s name on it but they have to wait till after his trial. I hope he goes to prison.

  93. “Three to seven trustees”

    Maybe most of them are going to prison. Gotta leave the trust to some untested HOOTER upsatrts?

  94. Warrn should have gotten some lawyers involved when he was putting together this latest scheme ’cause that aint a valid trust 😉


    According to BillM, he got Warren and Co some savvy tax lawyers from NY.

  95. Right Proudtexan, like BillM created the heavens and the earth in 7 days??? HAHAHAHHAHA

  96. Deputydog didnt you hear he did. He also made the moon and stars.


  97. Are these the same lawyers that said an Administrative Review by an agency was the same thing as a decision from the Court of Appeals?

  98. yu huh, exactly the same ones , LOL

  99. do we know for sure that the administrative review actually took place?

  100. Nope. Just Bill’s say-so.

  101. i’m not sure his say so is good enough for me. i’ll withhold judgment until someone posts an actual document.

  102. Well, I’m quite sure that his say-so isn’t good enough for me. As a convicted felon, his credibility is suspect as is, much less with all of the erroneous and false information that he has put out on his blog.

    Bill was asked to post the cite (or the document), and has either refused or is unable to do so.

  103. Brooke is flying out for tommorrows hearing. Perhaps there will be photos of the perps, if not by the SLidingRib, Gosanangelo?

  104. It would be helpful if we had pictures of these people to go with names cause there are so many of them and so many with names that are alike. Is there a source anywhere?

  105. From what I understand for generations there were only like 50 first names used in Flds, biblical names. But after Rulon Jeffs became prophet, he suggested using more names, because of confusion,,, LOL

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