Book of Mormon: Polygamy

Do FLDS not believe in the Book of Mormon? Isn’t that Joseph Smith’s translation of the Bible?

Book of Mormon

Jacob 2:24

24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.

Jacob 3:5

5 Behold, the Lamanites your brethren, whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins, are more righteous than you; for they have not forgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father—that they should have save it were one wife, and concubines they should have none, and there should not be whoredoms committed among them.

Mosiah 11:2

2 For behold, he did not keep the commandments of God, but he did walk after the desires of his own heart. And he had many wives and concubines. And he did cause his people to commit sin, and do that which was abominable in the sight of the Lord. Yea, and they did commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness.

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on April 20, 2009.

78 Responses to “Book of Mormon: Polygamy”

  1. I’ve never read the Mormon Bible, but Mosiah 11:2 sounds like it is aimed straight at Warren Jeffs.

    My Bible doesn’t have the book of Jacob either.

  2. I thought this site pledged originally to just post documents and let people make up their own minds. It has veered off into commentary and gossip mongering. It was better to keep it clean.

  3. anon 4-20 1:49

    You can read the docs and make up your own mind. No one is stopping you.

  4. anon 4-20 1:49 pm, Never saw where THIS site pledged anything, you must be thinking of a different site. If you don’t like the comment sections no one is forcing you to read them and leave comments on them.

  5. i agree ladysadie and watchingu2.

  6. PS

    I guess you could go to the Bile Madwhacky site, or Vulturevomit dot com Hugh too, all will delete your posts before they post if they dont think you are a flaming member of the PPSG.

    “Pro Polygamy Support Group” PPSG

  7. thanks watching. i always wondered what ppsg stood for.

  8. This blog never represented anything about just posting documents and having no commentary. I did say all perspectives are welcome as long as posters display some level of respect for one another and for the site.

    I guess this is an uncomfortable topic. It would be great to have someone reconcile or explain the seeming contradiction of the opening post.

  9. By the way, more docs will be posted soon. It is a time consuming process, and I have been short on time lately. But I do have quite a few more to post and I’m regularly receiving more.

  10. Has Natalie Malonis started posting? If so welcome! It will be great to get your prospective on things.

  11. first of all, the Book of Mormon is not a translation of the bible.

    there are numerous contradictions in the scriptures. God says “do not kill” and then commands ‘utterly destroy”. don’t commit adultery or have only one wife; Abraham, Moses, David, Solomon and others were polygamists. Jesus taught peace and love your enemies, yet Peter brandished a sword and actually used it against a soldier coming to arrest Jesus. These are just a few.

    the problem isn’t the scriptures- it is the attitudes of the people reading the scriptures. Those who do not beleive in God or do not understand that nothing is impossible for Him have trouble with these kinds of scriptures.

  12. ztgstmv: you sound cranky….did you just get out of a heavenly session?

  13. WC – thanks for your input. That is the context I was looking for. Can you explain further? It is true the Bible is full of contradictions, but most of those can be reconciled since the contradictions are between the Old Testament and the New Testament — with the coming of Christ, a new covenant was ushered in and many of the ways of the Old Testament became unacceptable and even abhorrent to God.

    In the context of what I quoted above, I would like to know how a fundamentalist who practices polygamy views those passages and interprets their meaning.

    Thanks!

  14. Ztg – one of the very few rules of the forum is that posters refrain from “guessing” at others’ identities when someone has chosen to use a pseudonym or post anonymously. There is a strict rule against attempts to “out” anonymous posters unless a poster has identified themselves.

    I am deleting your comments for violations of the rules, and I will not give this little speech again in the future – any similar violations in the future by anyone on any side of any issue will simply be deleted without comment.

    And by the way you are wrong, but that is not the point.

  15. dang, i missed ztg’s rant. i always miss the good stuff.

  16. off topic, but texas polygamy has some new pictures from the pilot. click on the link to the right and its the first topic.

  17. wonder if this is a watchtower.

  18. so what’s the white building behind the temple in this picture?

  19. Well, if you are going to have more than one wife for the sake of sex, then it is a whoredom. In Jacob 2:23 -“…they seek to excuse themselves in commiting whoredoms, because of the things which were written concerning David, and Solomon his son.” In other words, the people in the BOM were practicing polygamy to satisfy appetites and for the pride of it; rationalizing it because David and Solomon did it. Heaven ordained polygamy is not for satisfying lusts, but for controlling appetites. As one FLDS member said, “the FLDS is not about sex. It is about hard work and sacrifice.” So, the commandment is to have one wife, because of the weakness of the men, or husbands. Jacob 2:35 says “Ye have broken the hearts of your tender wives, and lost the confidence of your children, because of your bad examples before them.” A bad polygamist not only condemns himself, but also so many women and children- thus, the Lord says to just have one wife, and not ruin so many other lives if your going to be a jerk (in slang terms).
    Heavenly Father is a polygamist, and since we are his children, he wants us to become like him- just like we want our children to become like us. So, if we can obey and control ourselves, the Lord will command some to obey the higher law, that of polygamy; with the stipulation, that where much is given, much is required.

    That is my take, I don’t practice polygamy myself.

  20. whoa, god is a polygamist? first i’ve heard of this.

  21. “whoa, god is a polygamist? first i’ve heard of this.”
    ……………………………………………..

    Not your god. Your god is the devil.

  22. wc you know nothing about my god. i don’t have to have a “prophet” to tell me what god is saying. i can speak with him directly and don’t have to go through a phony. why don’t you run back over to billm’s site and quit calling my god names.

  23. I apologize. I blog before thinking sometimes.

  24. i was just blown back by your referral to god as a polygamist. to the best of my knowledge, jesus and therefore god was never married.

  25. so what’s the white building behind the temple in this picture?

    Anonymous said this on April 21, 2009 at 12:15 AM (edit)
    ——-

    The printing establishment. It’s where the incinerator is housed and there is reportedly a safe underground.

  26. so that ornate building is a printing esablishment? i had it more in line with being the house for warren jeffs. man, what a bummer.

  27. wonder if this is a watchtower.

    Anonymous said this on April 21, 2009 at 12:11 AM (edit)

    ——

    Yes, looks like they finally finished it out. There has been a lot of work done since the raid. That road to the left of the guard tower is new and the area right behind it has been prepped for some construction it looks like — that area was not even cleared when the raid happened.

    I wonder if they’re going to build a new Temple.

  28. “to the best of my knowledge, jesus and therefore god was never married”
    …………………………………

    Dan Brown has made millions on his conspiracy theory that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene. If you study the scriptures, it really isn’t that far fetched. Once you make it to he was married, the next step is to say to yourself “was Jesus greater than Abraham, and Abraham had more than one wife?”. Next thing you know, you’re arguing with TBM that polygamy shouldn’t be against the law.

  29. Ooooooo “printing establishment” — scary.

  30. yeah wc, i’ve heard all the talk about him being married to mary magdalene, but never quite accepted it. i even read his books, but it didn’t convince me.

  31. WC – thank you for your comments. I’m absorbing it and trying to get in a different mindset so that I might understand better.

  32. Ztg – grow up, would you? Say what you mean or scram. Sarcastic, passive-aggressive comments add nothing and paint you as a whiney baby. Spit it out or say nothing.

  33. You’re right FLDS Texas, it is a different mindset. And it seems to be one that is hard to grasp if you weren’t born into it. And I truly have no problem with polygamy for consenting adults, its when you involve minors that it becomes a problem for me.

  34. In Genesis 10, Nimrod, son of Cush (whose name means “black”), founded a civilization in Mesopotamia. In Genesis 11, Abraham was from Ur of the Chaldees, a land whose earliest inhabitants included blacks. The people of the region where Abraham came from can be proven historically and archaeologically to have been intermixed racially. So it is possible that Abraham and those who traveled with him could have been racially mixed.

    Genesis 14 tells how Abraham’s experiences in Canaan and Egypt brought him and his family into areas inhabited by peoples who were very likely black. Both archaeological evidence and the account in 1 Chronicles 4 tell us that the land of Canaan was inhabited by the descendants of Ham.

    Further black presence can be found in the accounts of Hagar the Egyptian, Ishmael and his Egyptian wife, and Ishmael’s sons, especially Kedar. The Kedarites are mentioned many times in Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Nehemiah, and the word kedar means “blackness.”

  35. Still further evidence of black presence in the patriarchal period appears with Joseph’s experiences in Egypt. Joseph married an Egyptian woman, Asenath, who was descended from Mizraim, which made her Hamitic. Thus there is a strong possibility that Asenath was black. She was the mother of Ephraim and Manasseh.

  36. Genesis 10:6-20 describes the descendants of Ham as being located in North Africa, Central Africa and in parts of southern Asia. Psalm 105:23 mentions the “land of Ham” in Egypt, and Psalm 78:51 connects the “tents of Ham” with Egypt.

  37. There is a strong tradition that some of the descendants of Noah through his son Ham were black. Ham had a son named Cush, which means “black” in Hebrew. Cush is the most common term designating color in reference to persons, people or lands used in the Bible. It’s used 58 times in the King James Version. The Greek and Latin word is Ethiopia. In classical literature, Greek and Roman authors describe Ethiopians as black. Archaeology has found these people to be black. In the book of Jeremiah, the question is asked, “Can the Ethiopian change his skin?”

  38. Acts 13 we read of Simeon, called Niger, the Latin term for black. There is also Lucias from Cyrene, a geographical location of black people.

  39. the people of the bible were much more tolerant of skin color than we are today.

  40. The printing establishment. It’s where the incinerator is housed and there is reportedly a safe underground.
    _________________________________
    so then what’s the little white building attached to the temple?

  41. Seems like if Jesus was married to MM the Bible would have just come out and said it. I mean, marriage is one of the sacraments and one of the most holy acts that man can engage in. It is a holy and sacred union blessed by God. Hard to believe that Jesus himself would have gone through such a sacred and blessed sacrament without even a casual mention by any of the authors throughout the whole Bible.

    I was always taught that the Bible is a complete work and nothing needs to be added to it to give it meaning. There is no need for guessing or inferring. I realize that is only one teaching among many.

  42. There are scriptures that say not to add or take away from “this revelation.” Many churches think that the writer meant not to add or take away from the whole bible- but what was really meant was not to take away or add to ~that specific revelation~. The bible is a compilation of hundreds of revelations, all of which were written hundreds of years before the bible was compiled (sometime in the middle ages). The bible is a compilation of certain inspired writings condoned by Constantine and early Catholic, and later Protestant, leaders. There are many inspired writings that are not in the bible, because the early church said not to put them there, in their opinion. Even though mormons believe in the King James version of the bible, it is true that there are many other inspired writings out there of which God is the author.

  43. In regards to Jesus being married, I look at it as something that just wasn’t spoken of much, either that it was sacrad or that it was just not recorded by the authors of the gospels. I don’t know of any other inspired writings outside the bible that mention it either. It’s kinda like the mormon temple. The temple is a major part of the mormon religion, but nowhere is it published or spoken of what goes on there (except in anti-mormon literature), because of it’s sacradness. So I can see how that could be lost several hundred years from now, just like many doctrines of the early christian church.

  44. And it comes down to a matter of faith and belief. I don’t see anything anywhere that suggests Jesus was married. To me that sounds like wishful thinking by some who would like to justify plural marriage after the fact. Maybe he was married or maybe he was not but there’s not anything at all to indicate that he was. For those who believe that Jesus was married to MM — why exactly do you believe that? Can you point to a scripture passage or some other teaching? Another inspired writing that another poster mentioned?

  45. There is alot written on Jesus being married on the internet.
    One website that lists quick facts is the following:

    http://www.grailchurch.org/marriedjesus.htm

    Most of this has come out due to Dan Brown’s books and movies. The best way to know is to ask the Lord yourself through prayer. If you sincerely want to know, he will tell you the truth.

  46. Dan Brown is a fictional writer WC, and an idioit on top of that.
    I could write a book without evidence to back it up that Warren Jeffs the prophet of FLDS, or Monson is actually a homosexual.
    I bet I could sell lots of books to. Christ didn’t come to the earth to marry, or have children, he came as the Messiah, to teach others who God really is. He came as a redemeer for sin of all humans who believed on him. Christ knew before he was ever born a human that he would die on a cross and his blood alone would atone for the sin of mankind. Jesus had no alterior motive, he had one reason for being on the earth. It wasn’t marriage, or for having children, it was redemption of sin.

  47. Brown states on his website that his books are not anti-Christian, as he is a Christian himself, and says of his book The Da Vinci Code that it is simply “an entertaining story that promotes spiritual discussion and debate” and suggests that the book may be used “as a positive catalyst for introspection and exploration of our faith”.

  48. I am still interested in the meaning of the passages in the opening post. The plain meaning is clear – plural marriage is abhorrent to God. It seems to say that plural marriage is sexual immorality and sinful. Is there another passage in the Book of Mormon or the Bible where God approves of or blesses the taking of multiple wives?

  49. The verses you printed FLDS TEXAS correspond with the biblical verses in Leviticus 18. Where God is telling his people not to intermarry, no cousins, no sisters, no brothers, no fathers to daughters.
    Then in the new testament. In more than One place, it talks about marrying one man to one wife. Especially if you are an Elder or Bishop or authority of the church.

  50. Every Man whom God chose to represent him, in writing or prophet from Abraham, David, Solomon, because they disobeyed God and had many wives and concubines, were punished in some way.

  51. Abraham slept with Hager, and afterward Sari hated hager, even though she had encouraged it, and Hager and her son were sent away.
    David, slept with another, and had her husband murdered in battle so he could keep the man’s wife. And God punished David by taking his and bathsheba’s first child in death. David was chosen to build God’s temple, but because of his disobedience, God refused to allow david to build the temple

    Solomon was chosen to build the temple, and all Solomon asked from God was Wisdom, which God gave him. But solomon didn’t use that wisdom when it came to women. He married many women and hundreds of concubines, many who still worshiped idols. Solomon’s downfall was he fell into worshiping idols himself. And God punished him.

  52. the BOM takes pieces and parts of biblical truths, and distorts them to say something different than orginally written.

  53. So where did the book of Jacob come from? Excuse my ignorance.

    It seems to be a direct mandate against plural marriage.

  54. The book of Jacob came from Joseph Smith, he wrote the BOM, used some actual Biblical facts, and renamed and added books. The book of Jacob which he so named, were from some egyptian writings of old. Joseph Smith was completely stupid, but the fact he didn’t realize some of the orignial texts were written in aramaic and not greek screwed him up royally.
    The book of Nephi, isn’t biblical book either. Another one of Josephs writings, taking bits and pieces of biblical, jewish writings.

  55. And you will notice, Flds don’t come to the defense of the book of jacob. So I doubt they are included in the teaching of FLDS.

  56. Others have done an excellent job of arguing the Biblical position against polygamy so I won’t go there, except to add a generalization about Jesus’ marrying.

    To me this is a great blasphemy because it suggests the possibility that there are people wandering around with some percentage of divinity in their veins. This is completely opposed to the leveling Christian belief in a ‘priesthood of all believers’ as well as to the revolutionary statements of the Beatitudes.

    Christianity is a corporeal religion. Christ walked in the flesh among men, he died a human death, and his human body was resurrected and raised to heaven. So if he entered into the human institution of marriage and left human children on earth, it would have been for a reason, and duly noted.

    I thought The Da Vinci Code was one of the more asinine books ever written, and I winced when Sophie Neveu revealed her deep dark secret: that her grandparents, the descendents of Jesus and Mary Magdalene, were having it off in Hieros Gamos intercourse while watched by a ring of orgiastic followers. It was ridiculous until I saw the photo of the temple bed at YFZ Ranch. If that bed wasn’t for a Hieros Gamos ritual, I’m Pecos Bill.

  57. Song of Solomon had NOTHING to do with Jesus Christ. It was a love story of Solomon.

  58. greetings, i think you are exactly right. ow i had to look up the word, but after doing so, it is so what that bed is all about and warren was playing the role of god when using it.

  59. Is there no one to defend the book of Jacob? No one to stand behind the writings of Joseph Smith? I don’t understand what “fundamentalist” means if it’s not thestrict adherence to Joseph Smith’s teachings. Where exactly did the whole celestial marriage concept come from – and what time frame in relation to the book of mormon?

  60. I was taught in LDS seminary when I was a kid that Jesus had three wives — Mary Magdalene and Lazarus’ sisters, Mary and Martha. However, our seminary preacher advised us not to preach it.

    I did find a copy of a letter written by President McKay in 1963 on a Jehovah’s Witness web site. In the letter Presdient McKay stated that Jesus was married, but he did not say to whom. President McKay also advised Latter-Day Saints not to preach it because “that would be casting pearls before swine.”

  61. Pecos Bill,

    Do you guys seriously believe that? That picture of the temple bed is for more like a heres grandma ritual- like when a person is deathly ill, they are put there and are prayed for. I only bring up dan brown because I thought you guys could relate to him. I personally think he doesn’t know his butt from a hole in the ground- but I would believe his version of what Christ was like over the Catholic church’s version, any day.

  62. Here is something interesting that my husband told me yesterday.
    I’m not preaching this. I’m just giving some information about it.

    My husband is currently reading a book on the deities of ancient Mesopotamia. The book he is reading stated that Sin was a minor deity and was the god of the moon. He is symbolized by a new moon whose horns are the crescent moon. The book states the god Sin created human beings out of clay. The clay he tossed with his right hand made man. The clay he tossed with his left hand made woman.

    It is rather ironic that Christians believe human beings are born out of sin. That’s because the definition of Sin changed. Sin once meant the moon god but now means evil.

    For further information, look up the god Sin on Wikipedia.

  63. I don’t know when Joseph Smith introduced the concepts can be sealed together and can spend eternity together. But I do know that he developed this concept. This belief is one of the cornerstones of both the LDS and FLDS churches.

  64. wc – i see the bed as being used for virgin deflowering. the reason is that when poor barbara died, warren had her stuck in an apartment over the store or something like that. warren didn’t seem to kind about her in his dictations. he took her children away from her knowing she was dying and brought them to texas to live with some of his other wives.

    and why would you put a bed for praying for the deathly ill on the 3rd floor?

  65. This line of thinking is preposterous. These are people who kick members out for watching porno. They only have sex to procreate. Carolyn Jessop said she never saw her husband fully unclothed in 17 years of marriage. Some members don’t have sex for months if not years after they are married. And you’re telling me that they are sex-addicts that deflower virgins in an all-white temple? This is crazy talk what your doing on this blog.

  66. But WC, there’s a difference between watching porn compared to a sexual ritual that is part of their celebration of their religion. I know for certain that bed was not used to view the dead. The bed was built to Warren’s specifications for him to use. It was kept in the temple. Seriously, it is not difficult to believe that it was used for a Heiros Gamos ritual. It was used for SOMETHING — there are two things that are done on beds … sleeping and sex.

    Carolyn Jessop left before Warren had fully reached his pinnacle. And if it’s true that Warren was having some kind of ritual sexual ceremony in the Temple — or even if it was just some type of symbolic ritual on that bed, that does not mean by any stretch that other members knew about it or that other members engaged in the same kind of practice. I don’t think they did — I don’t think they knew everything Warren was into and up to, and I don’t think they lived their lives the same way either. I seriously think most FLDS members would have a problem with a 12 year old girl marrying a 52 year old man and would not be in favor of that. (apparently not Merril and Barbara, however)

  67. April Day — is Joseph Smith the one who introduced plural marriage and is there any teaching that explains how that can be squared with what is printed above from the book of Jacob?

  68. Jesus being married to Mary Magdalene is speculation. Anyone can write and speculate on something that we have no real knowledge of.

  69. i agree that most of the rank and file FLDS had no clue what warren was up to, especially those he left behind in the twin cities. but i do think that many if not all of those he moved to the ranch knew.

  70. I don’t even think most of the members in Texas knew, except the top lieutenants. I can’t figure out if Merril is a true believer or just an opportunist trying to gain more favor and status.

  71. FLDS Texas,
    Yes, Joseph Smith came up with the whole plural marriage thing in D&C 132. Basically it was a scam to make Emma accept his other women and to get other women to sleep with him. Plural marriage is not commanded anywhere in the either the Bible or the Book of Mormon.

    I could see the bed being where Warren goes for his “heavenly sessions” while his dutiful scribe wives kneel beside him waiting to hear his mumblings of wisdom. Frankly, I could see that a lot easier than seeing the bed be a place for a ritual deflowering of virgins. I believe the FLDS are far, far too prudish and sexually repressed to go for that sort of thing. 😉

  72. Oh, if you want a fun research project you might want to look in to just how many of the early LDS leaders were shot by angry husbands. I believe I’ve read of at least two so far. lol

  73. Thanks Rebeckah. I know basically nothing about LDS, but I find it very interesting. So plural marriage was a revelation of Joseph Smith? What’s the relation of D&C to the Book of Mormon and which one trumps the other when they conflict?

  74. I was reading the Federal Warrant yesterday for Tony Alamo, the pervert arrested in Arkansas. According to the girls who said they were assualted by Tony Alamo from ages 8-9yrs old, Tony had what he called “massage” sessions, just like warren. And Im sure both warren and tony used those sessions to have sex. Tony would call one of two girls at a time in his (massage) sessions at night. Warren usually called 1 or 2, sometimes 3.

    And WC is crazy to think FLDS never have sex where their clothes are off,, LOL

  75. freedom lover (pliggy) Im sure that would turn a man like you on.
    Since you seem to know every single married couples personal business, you probably have your own pictures, go outside and play now!!

  76. FLDS Texas, I am not LDS, just answering from the research I’ve done — much of which was on http://www.exmormon.com. From what I understand, the D&Cs trump the Bible and the Book of Mormon. Actually, if you read the Book of Mormon it appears there are a few fairly strong passages against polygamy, but I’ve never read it myself. (Although I’ve seen copies of those few passages.) The Mormons also have The Pearl of Great Price, the Discourses and the Book of Abraham in their holy texts arenas. I’m not sure what’s in any of those, though. Hope that helps. 😉

  77. Thanks Rebeckah

  78. Joseph Smith was a renegade as well as a pervert. His reasoning behind many wives had nothing to do with Religion or What God said was wrong. There is no way to defend the book of Jacob, because Joseph Smith added D&C 132 later. LDS and FLDS know what the book of Jacob says, most of them word for word. But when you ask one to make sense of Jacob and D&C132 you won’t get an answer.

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