General Discussion #60

Continued from General Discussion #59

       

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~ by FLDS TEXAS on August 7, 2011.

320 Responses to “General Discussion #60”

  1. For us, this Sunday is a day of rest from the Warren Jeffs trial. But I doubt he is resting well as he considers the sentence he is about to receive. I hope the jury goes for the maximum — he could get 119 years.

  2. Texasconnie, are you attending the trial?

  3. 45 years with no chance of a parole would fit the bill for me but ‘Warrant’ considers the appeal and ruling his rights up to the Supreme Court as his real trial. The guilty verdict and sentence he’ll receive is just his cause to now be taken to other authrities looking for a technicality, loop-hole or higher court ruling. The PR campaign has been a veritable disaster and the admonition to his flock to stay away from news sources and the internet shows he fears the truth getting to his sheeple and the total legal costs of this whole fiasco will never be divulged by ‘Warrant’. I am looking forward to the Federal consequences to his flight and the federal search warrant contents, along with the red ‘Escalade’ contents.

  4. I hope that other law enforcement event follow, and don’t stop and assume well now he’s in jail….

    The enforcement of law in twin towns needs to begin, they need to decertify the mess and bring it under regional control so that the UEP administration could be dealt with with real authority

    I wonder what Dee Benson is thinking right now??

  5. For that matter I wonder what Rod Parker is thinking??

    I sure hope this hurts both of them professionally…. especially Parker he can not possibly have been totally ignorant…. and by the way where are the UEP records he was to have surrendered 5 years ago?

  6. First of all, CONGRATS Everyone on last weeks victory. His tape from the courtroom got an outstanding # of hits on my blog.
    We are looking at a story and are all confused about how this person intertwines AUB/FLDS. We’d be more than happy to have you comment; and if you twitter, we are now there! On the right side, sign up for us!

    http://sisterwivesblog.blogspot.com/2011/08/flds-polygamists-aid-and-abed-sexual.html

    Thanks for all the help you’ve given me!

  7. I was watching news footage of Warren walking to/from the car at court, and if dawned on me…his posture is that of a vulture! The head hung down, his rounded humped shoulders, his staring eyes… If I were a cartoonist, I’d draw him sitting on the guard tower, in full vulture mode, looking over his sheeple at YFZ as they scurry in fear to get their chores done to please him….or be eaten.

  8. The posture is contrived

    At times his head will snap up and his entire bearing changes for fleeting moments.

  9. mc1199–tee-hee…he does–he does!!!

  10. mc1199–so true.

  11. babylonsister3:

    Contrived is right. Look at the color of his hands in the San Angelo pictures. They’re showing flight/fright response. In other words, he’s scared.

  12. Miele:

    He has good reason to be scared.

    I think his posture is somewhat related to his age and confinement, but more so it is a part of his “humble and obedient servant of God being persecuted by the wicked” schtick.

    I’ll give it to him that he is better at staying on message than the spluttering DeToto.

  13. I have a question. Merianne was in the custody of a family member before being unsuited. where is she now? there is an article talking about her being back at the ranch, but it is dated before she was unsuited, so i thought it was part of the flds pr campaign at the time. and isn’t the other one Janet? whatever happened to her? thanks

  14. The best information is that Merrianne and her legal guardian Naomi Carlisle are both at the ranch. All the other victims of the cases that have come up and are still to come are 18 years of age or older.

  15. Thanks anon at 5:09. So what does that mean as far as where the 14 yo from this trial? is she still at the ranch? Living with the other wives? Thanks a lot (as i got the Janet part wrong and thought no one would respond.)

  16. The prosecution showed ID cards for Veda from Las Vegas. They were dated 2009 and 2010. Not sure if she is still there, if she has moved back to the ranch or if she is at the crick.

  17. E. Texas – wish I could attend the trial, but I’m home in Austin, trying to keep a close eye on the happenings. Would love to have been an eyewitness to the courtroom drama.

  18. thanks, warrentrialwatcher! have enjoyed all your posts!

  19. I wonder what Bill Off his meds Medvecky thinks of all of this? He got his ass tossed from the San Angelo paper.He kind of lost it there at the last.

  20. I kinda been wondering about ole’ madwacky??? I think he has lost all of his friends and he is banned from everywhere.

    I sure would like to get in his face…nah..he’s not worth it!!

  21. I think the only friend madwacky has left is–Deb Lee–cupcake–april day..

  22. I ripped him pretty bad until he was banned.He is in all this too far to get back out.Originally he defended the FLDS out of hatred for the CPS.The idiot had NO IDEA of how evil the men were.Now instead of backtracking,he has to put up a face. His mouth is his worst enemy and he will eventually pay for his support of these pedophiles.

  23. His filthy white-trash mouth didn’t help his cause either. He started making these childish threats when I backed him in a corner.The guy is a class act .You know his family is proud.His main brag was the fact that he used his real name.I pointed out the fact that he post every bodies name address and phone number on his site and harasses them .That’s why he wants names. This made him absolutely livid !

  24. I think he admires the Flds for having an excellent racket for child sex. He describes others as having constant sexual fantasies about kids and helpless young women;sounds ike classic projection to me.

  25. And remember–he put the name–address–phone # up of the folks that were foster parents to Merrianne…he should have been in deep poo-poo for that. He acted like they kidnapped that child. They were only foster parents…geez…

    No way would I post on his site…I am afraid he will get all my info and post it all over the place.

  26. I wrote a letter to Harry Reid today , the senator from Nevada, basically the only senator who ever called for a Federal Task force to investigate Flds ,,, he isnt my senator, but wrote him anyway,,,, I still think its important

    here is his senatoral email address for anyone else that wants to write

    http://reid.senate.gov/contact/index.cfm

  27. Thank you,I will write him.You guys,my life changed back in 1988.Had I been in town,Heber could have put a bullet in me.I was at the reliance Appliance store all the time.Anyone around here know any Lebarons?

  28. Ive read alot about the LeBarons

  29. I have heard about the LeBarons..rough bunch–

  30. Robert

    Actually I know a lady who was ervil’s personal secretary. She is out and life is good – she escaped that nonsense,

    Also know two others whose family escaped mexico, I think the mom was in the lebaron group, but they got out too. All leaving peaceful escaped lifes.

    The four oclock murders seem to have been forgotten in Texas – but its a bell ringer for what these cults are all about.

  31. I am so upset! What in the world is wrong with BillM? I know this has been discussed ad nauseum. The man just oozes pure evil. I shouldn’t read his blog, but occasionally I wander over. And today is the worst I’ve seen from him! All I feel like doing is sitting here and crying for all the folks he flings his verbal detritus at. I am so sorry that anyone has to read this smut about themselves. Sorry…this is just a rant. Thanks everyone for faithfully maintaining this site and the ongoing updates and discussions.

  32. I hear ya Princess. I too wandered over there. It is amazing the stuff he comes up with. He has been defeated. He knows it. So, all he knows to do is lash out and say horrible things about folks that are trying to help the flds. Best not to pay any attention to him. He knows we won’t post on his site.

    Hey–I have seen him say horrible things about Elizabeth Smart..horrible things…so..pay no attention. I don’t like it either. But, you see who his only friend is?? No one posts there…

  33. The man is THE poster child for anger management issues and delusional, self serving thoughts. I use to peek over there, periodically…but it seemed he was mostly just ranting…and few were postting any comments. As was mentioned above…I think he is down to 1 or 2 people who will speak to him at all…..unless, of course, you take into account all his imaginay flds friends and contacts.

  34. His only friend also still post on the SLC trib site. Guess they haven’t banned this person yet. I need to just stay from that toxic blog (BillM). It seems to be like trying not to watch a train wreck for me. But today it just upset me too much for my health. Literally, I just got out of the hospital yesterday so I need to exercise some self-discipline. I did spent my time in the hospital reading texasflds on my iPad using their wifi. Good relief from an otherwise boring stay. Thank you for your reply. I’m glad to know he’s toxic to everyone as well.

  35. I just read BillM’s post from Aug 6 and he did get one thing right, that one man rule leads to problems and a napoleon complex.

  36. Oh well,let the bitter old fart hang himself,he is the only one to blame.I see a brighter future for the hapless child brides .what me and others have known for years is finally sinking in to the ones that had no clue.Hell,it took me years to understand the LeBarons.

  37. I would be interested to know if J. Dee Roundy was exed over not being a faithful and jumping under the bus after Eric Nichols derailed the original plan.

  38. I think it was last week that he said if anyone posted anything bad about flds, he would sue them in a court of law. But…it’s ok for him to say bad things about–CPS–Carolyn Jessop–Flora–Elyssa…the Judge…etc..etc..this list is too long.

    So–ok for him–but–no one can say anything about precious WSJ…like I said..he’s defeated, Warren is going down, wee Willie has been kicked out..it’s a big mess for him, so he has nothing else to do than talk about the people that have brought the flds down…he’s a mere weak man..he can do nothing!!

  39. If not exed, J. Dee has probably been given a strong warning.

    The jury liked him and they, too, had to notice how willing Warren was to throw him under the bus.

    J. Dee even shared a laugh with the wicked infidels.

  40. Anon 9:07 pm was me.

  41. I’ve never been so grateful to see a criminal conviction in my life.

    Do I understand correctly that he has to serve at least half his sentence before he’s eligible for parole? In that case, it’ll take at least 80 years for full satisfaction – I don’t want to ever see him walk out of there alive. And it’s fine by me if the FLDS cult goes broke funding his postage stamps.

    Here’s an interesting link about phone calls from Texas prisons:

    http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/offender_phone.htm

    Max 15 minutes per call, total of two hours per month for eligible inmates based on good behavior, to registered and approved home phones only, subject to monitoring. Hardly optimum conditions for ‘prophecy’. I like it.

  42. There is something in the law about having to serve all of the first sentence and 1/2 of the 2nd if they are consecutive. The first sentence could be 99 years. If that is the case and it is consecutive then he’d be 109 years before getting out. If it’s concurrent and one sentence is 99 then it would be 49.5 years before he could be considered for parole.

  43. Yeah Twist, J. Dee was a cutie.

  44. 49.5 years would not be a bad deal. He won’t live that long. But–I want 99 yrs.

  45. I’m still confused about the Bad Acts. They were not talked about until AFTER the trial. If he had been aquitted, would all of that horror been just left under the rug? Why was it not brought out sooner? I figure there must be a legal reaason, but I’ve been following along and I don’t see it.

  46. Deb — many of the Bad Acts did not occur in Texas, so they could not be prosecuted here. Others they might not have had enough evidence to proceed to trial on, but they can be introduced during the punishment phase to persuade the jury to impose a stricter sentence.

    I believe that had he been acquitted, the Bad Acts would not become part of the trial record. However, the filing of the Bad Acts became public knowledge, and some sources (such as this blog) have published the prosecution’s documents detailing the Bad Acts.

    For which I am grateful to the admins of this blog.

  47. I’ll bet Oprah feels really stupid about now.

  48. TexasConnie is right. Most of the Bad Acts didn’t occur in Schleicher County or there isn’t the proof needed for a conviction. The rules are less strenuous for 404b filings. I know that the 24 underage marriages either didn’t occur in the county or they didn’t produce a baby that was found to have DNA to submit in court. All of the 6 unlawful sexual acts apparently happened at Alta Academy which is in Sandy, Utah.

    Jobo – the only way to get the full 99 years is for there to be 2 sentences that run consecutively. That rarely happens in Texas courts. Both Lehi and Emack got concurrent sentences.

  49. He is not being convicted of these bad acts but they go to mind frame and history of behavior.

  50. I have a question.

    Is it a crime in Texas to require a 16-year-old witness an act of sexual intercourse?

  51. Now you know why the Kingstons plea bargain so the information against them cannot be presented. Warren should have done the same. But that is why the Kingstons have 1.5 billion dollars isn’t it.

  52. 50 years would be fine with me. I mean I don’t think he will be able to do much evil at 100 plus years.

  53. Consecutive sentences are rare, but they do happen.

    http://www.star-telegram.com/2008/07/02/737421/springtown-man-gets-4060-years.html

  54. The sad part is the 400 children sent back, the children whose childhood he destroyed with his perversions, and all the children still in the FLDS. The chidlren in Colorado, Arizona, Texas, Idaho, Utah, South Dakota and British Columbia for which the horror continues. This is not the doing of one man, it started when the FLDS started. His father had 50 wives and the 50th was 15. Winston Blackmore had his share and so did all Warren’s favorite guys.

  55. O, verily surely, Warren will be “renewed” by the time he is 100+.

  56. I’ve been gone a long time but I can’t believe the abuser excuser, Deb and Bill and others are still trying to sell their abuse excuses. Others as well, I got the old well it is a good thing Warren raped them otherwise they would be walking the streets the other day. If every girl not “married” between 12 and 16 were walking the streets the sidewalks would be so crowded you couldn’t get by. I can’t believe they are still trying to sell that lie.

  57. Rulon actually had 66 wives blackbird. I totally agree about the children being sent back. It never should have happened and I think the COA knows that now that they are getting the information about the situation from the cases on appeal. Problem is that they didn’t have all this information back when they had to make their decision.

  58. I was wondering was JD Roundy, Jonathan Roundy, who was the deputy that married the Hildale judges daughter when she was 14 and then she begged out and was released to go to SLC and live with relatives. I was wondering because when they asked him if he had had sex with someone 12,14, 15 he had to ask his lawyer before he answered.

  59. I want you to know I’m here and listening but I’m just not fit for comment.

  60. No one has any information on the people behind the stockade in South Dakota. Is that the House of Hiding?

  61. I just knew that Rulon’s 50th wife was a Barlow and was 15. I think she was the daughter of the sheriff.

  62. Pringle is one of the Lands of Refuge along with Mancos, Colorado and YFZ.

    The Houses of Hiding are numerous houses located primarily in other parts of Colorado to the last of my knowledge.

    When it comes to Warren’s wives, there is a hierarchy of places.

    The closest to Zion is YFZ and then the other two Lands of Refuge.

    Wives who were less obedient and “not ready for the higher ordinances” were in the Houses of Hiding and there appears to be somewhat of a strata for those places, too. The most rebellious (read: resistant) appeared to have been housed together in the same locations.

  63. I don’t have a good grasp at this time on who was/is at Pringle, blackbird.

    Warren rarely went there so there is less in his record about the people who were there.

  64. I had to laugh when Rod Parker, who has said many times that the FLDS did not have underaged marriages said that if someone in the FLDS was caught in an underaged marriage they would be excommunicated. When asked if that applied to Warren Jeffs, he looked stunned, laughed and said I don’t know. As low as some people’s opinion of lawyers is, I think Rod has made it even lower.

  65. Understandable, TC.

    And it appears to me to be even worse than you can currently imagine.

  66. The whole system is corrupt and perverted. I know we are supposed to feel sorry for the families Warren broke up but when it comes to the Big Barlow Boys, I just can’t muster up much sympathy.

  67. One other thing, get the polygamists off the safety net. What kind of safety net is that?

  68. Texastwist – On Pringle I agree it is probably worse than the Ranch.

  69. Pringle may well be worse than the ranch.

  70. I would say YFZ was probably the worst place for sexual depravity since that is where the temple was built.

    “Holy of Holies”

    I was referring to the depraved acts being worse than most people being able to imagine.

  71. Of course, I’m just speaking of the “authorized” acts.

  72. J. Dee Roundy is not Jonathan Roundy. The “J” is just that, not an initial.

    His consultations with his attorney were primarily for the questions that were Warren’s pushing him toward admitting to bigamy on the witness stand.

    My recall is that J. Dee was able to answer the prosecutor’s questions about his sexual activities without consultation.

    I clearly recall that J. Dee was taken aback at the state’s questions about groups of women and a 12 and a 15-year-old.

  73. “groups of women”

    I think Eric Nichols actually phrased that “groups of females.”

  74. Speaking of Pringle and/or Houses of Hiding, I wonder if any of Warren’s wives were in Wayne Fischer’s pickup when he had his accident in January 2008.

  75. JD is not Jonathan

  76. I am so upset! What in the world is wrong with BillM? I know this has been discussed ad nauseum. The man just oozes pure evil. I shouldn’t read his blog, but occasionally I wander over. And today is the worst I’ve seen from him! All I feel like doing is sitting here and crying for all the folks he flings his verbal detritus at. I am so sorry that anyone has to read this smut about themselves. Sorry…this is just a rant. Thanks everyone for faithfully maintaining this site and the ongoing updates and discussions.

    —————————–

    I never go to his blog, because you can be sure he relishes every click. I did look at his Facebook page and I had to laugh – he claimed Warren was following HIS advice on how to manage his defense in the courtroom. Remember when he used to post that he was in daily contact with the ranch and giving them advice? Apparently, not only does he want to BE part of the FLDS, he actually thinks people will believe he’s now the mastermind telling Warren what to do haaaahahaha!

  77. Rodney Parker was Incorporation Agent on several FLDS businesses. He also defended the FLDS in a personal letter to General Mark Shurtleff;

    Parkers firm of Snow, Christensen & Martineau
    Power players with distant links to polygamy!

    But the situation gets even more convoluted because Rodney R. Parker — who continues to represent members of the FLDS legally — is with the law firm of Snow, Christensen and Martineau, which also represents “the State of Utah, its officers, agencies and employees”. Parker previously served (1988-89) as Associate Deputy Attorney General “on the immediate staff” of the Deputy Attorney General of the United States in Washington D.C.

    Harold G. Christensen, Of Counsel, at Snow Christensen & Martineau, served as Deputy Attorney General of the US in both Ronald Reagan and Bush I’s administrations, as well as head of Litigation of the Utah Attorney General’s Office. And Reed L. Martineau of Snow Christensen & Martineau, was President of the Utah Bar Association from 1987-88.

    “As for George Romney, [late] governor of Michigan [Mitt Romney's father]. . .The Romneys still live in the predominately Mormon community of Colonia Juarez, Chihuahua [historically a polygamy colony], the Stake in that part of Mexico, 5,000 people live there. It is located some 18 miles west of Casas Grandes in a beautiful valley filled with apple orchards. There are now 3 million Mormons in Mexico and they have a goal of 30 million by 2020. Their missionaries are literally everywhere. There were also still some of the Hatch family at Colonia Juarez just a few years ago.”
    – John Hart, Religion Writer

    While Mitt’s mother may have been an MGM film actress, Mitt’s Y chromosome comes from his father, the late Michigan governor George W. Romney, who was born and raised in the Colonia Juarez, Chihuahua, Mexico polygamy colony between the New Mexico and Texas borders. (One account cites his birthplace as nearby Colonia Dublan.) Ancestry of Mitt Romney

    According to Jay Beswick, Parker represented both the now-unseated Hildale polygamist judge Walter Steed and convicted Colorado City polygamist cop Rodney Holm. Parker is with the law firm of Snow, Christensen and Martineau, which also represents the State of Utah. Rodney Parker is also the registered agent of the FLDS Corporations and Twin City Academy, Inc. in Hildale; all the above in good standing in the State of Utah.

    Parker previously served in Bush I’s administration as Associate Deputy Attorney General “on the immediate staff” of the Deputy Attorney General of the US in Washington, D.C.

    Harold G. Christensen, Counsel at Snow Christensen, served as Deputy Attorney General of the US in both Bush I’s and Ronald Reagan’s administration. Martineau’s official biography reveals that he was born in the Colonia Juarez polygamy colony where Mitt Romney’s father grew up.

  78. A clarification on George W Romney. He was born in July 1907 and the family left Mexico for the the US in July 1912 so he lived in Mexico only the first five years of his life. George Romney’s parents were monogamous, his grandparents were polygamists.

  79. And then someone just made me an offer to buy every last audio of Warren I have, listed on ebay and otherwise, thats interesting!

    The article above came from SCOOP in New Zealand, I was interviewed per Parker, but the rest was in the hands of the journalist/author. If flawed, it was not authored by me.

  80. A blast from the past…

    “Gifts of Naomie. Heavenly comfort wife. What does it all mean?”

    http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/2008/08/heavenly-comfort-wife.html

  81. I hope you don’t mind if I intrude and some questions about illBill. I’d never heard of the FLDS till a couple of weeks ago and have been reading all the comments here, where I heard of Ill Bill.

    So I googled him and I looked at his site and even followed him on twitter for a few days last week but his comments are just so sick I have unfollowed him. On lots of the posts on his site he seems to be the only one to comment on his own comments. I’m not going to encourage him so I’ll never visit his site again.

    On his “free the flds” site he claims to be a retired lawyer. Is this so? Does anyone know if and where he got his legal qualifications? What makes me suspicious is that his written English is so bad. I find it hard to believe that somebody with a law degree can make so many spelling mistakes and grammatical errors.

  82. I have a question,
    now that all this information is out can the state of Texas restart or revisit the custody of children at the ranch and use the information from the trial to show the parents are unfit?

  83. That should happen, shouldnt it?

  84. I missed this but picked up the link from a poster on the SLC thread…
    hope the ongoing Fed investigation turns into a town decertification…

    http://www2.az-independent.com

  85. J. Dee Roundy has 4 wives, but none were underage at the time of marriage, in fact, his 4th wife was a retread.

  86. greatdickens: Retired jailhouse lawyer would be more appropriate. He is an ex con with a grudge against CPS and CAS. Imo, he hurts the flds cause more than helps it, yet the flds have not denounced him.

  87. I just watched an interview on IN SESSION with an attorney Susan Hayes who was involved in FLDS when the children were all taken off the ranch in 2008. I disagreed with her whole heartedly and wonder what her problem is with protecting children from abuse.. I was actullay turned OFF by what she was saying..
    She along with many others are in the DARK as to what happens in these communties,,, and thinks just because warren is going to prison,, “Problem Solved”?? NOT

  88. Willie Jessop is being interviewed right now on IN SESSION

  89. HHG, that link doesn’t work.

  90. sorry … here is the full link

    http://www2.az-independent.com/2011/07/31/feds-investigate-colorado-city/

  91. One other real sad thing to think about….the colony in Mexico.One of my good friends went with Paul Lebaron there about ten years ago.It’s the same deal,but all those people are out of the laws reach.There is no hope for those children.

  92. I don’t think we need ever be concerned about ill Bill.He is too immature to do anything about his sewer mouth.Remember,this is all about religious people and those types usually are turned off when it comes to filthy language.Many people that would side with Medvecky are staying away because of just that. He is like a small child,screaming and kicking for attention.

  93. blackbird said this on August 7, 2011 at 11:09 PM: I’ll bet Oprah feels really stupid about now.

    She should.

    As should Larry King.

    Ironically, he will be on CNN tonight. Among the things he will talk about is his new book, “Truth Be Told.”

  94. Contrasting with the Larry Kings and Oprahs:

    Daphne Bramham with the Vancouver Sun (among many others who continue to cover these stories diligently and fervently.)

    “Among that Quorum of 12 was at least one Canadian — a girl whom Texas authorities first alerted B.C. child protection staff to in 2008 when she was found during the raid.”

    http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Texas+convicts+polygamist+pedophile+while+dithers+over+religious+freedom/5220082/story.html

  95. Daphne Bramham has stayed focused on the pending polygamy reference case and was instrumental in bringing the focuas upon Bishops Oler and Blackmore who were charged with polygamy in 2009. Now with the more recent information that has been brought to bear from the YFZ Ranch trials, the Canadian Mounties announced investigation into over two dozen Canadian ‘Child Brides’, over the past decade, and are suspected to have been sex trafficked into the US by FLDS Church members. Awaiting a BC Supreme Court ruling on the polygamy reference case has already given rise to at least sex trafficking which traces back directly into the Bountiful, BC polygamist FLDS Church community.

  96. According to CNN,Jeffs conviction strengthened the bonds between him and many followers.He “sacrificed” him self for their sake.
    Beware of cults.

  97. I was looking at some pictures of the FLDS women they interviewed at the YFZ ranch.Damn,it makes you want to see gay hairdressers raiding the place….plucking eyebrows and giving modern hair cuts.

  98. Oh, so many times I wish this were like Facebook with a LIKE button. Cause I would hit that LIKE buttons for Robert’s comment.

  99. LOL Tx Connie.I will never forget that one woman with a one continuous eyebrow running across her forehead.I called her “unibrow”. Personally,i could have plucked her like a chicken. What is this woman missing ? They all looked like they came from a covered wagon.

  100. Those women would have a hard time getting a date at a deer camp.At midnight !

  101. I’d like to shear ‘em like sheep and see at least a few short, sassy ‘dos. And they ought to be ordered to wear RED at least once a week. I guess sex with the prophet is so red-hot, they have to wear pastel colors to compensate. (Really not funny, when you stop and think about it. This has been a very depressing trial in many ways.)

  102. Oh man,at the prison,when all of those “spiritual husbands” get through romping on his rump,he will wish he had never heard of that term.

  103. Dictates of fashion:

    “He [God] has told the ladies to change the type of material and make new dresses as you live on this land of refuge. I would expect that you are so anxious to do this that by tomorrow, that is the kind of dress you will wear by tomorrow. If it is just one dress, you want to obey so fervently and quickly, you will make sure not another day goes by but what that obedience is in place.”

    “I authorized you to quietly, without voicing that this was the Lord’s will through me, to quietly guide your families in proper dress and hair, but some of you have gone too far with that. Now people throughout the community come around our families trying to learn what I am teaching. Some of you have voiced this to your families, that Uncle Warren teaches this and that, when you have not been authorized to give it to the people.”

    “I sent her out [of his presence during to a heavenly session] because she didn’t have a light dress on. But any of the others came in here I went through a severe suffering just to overcome their pride.”

    Naomie (referring to a different wife of Warren’s in the same discussion with Warren): “You said if she had a dark dress on to tell her to change into a light dress.”

  104. I just don’t see how women can look like that.They are under total control of these men.Pathetic.

  105. The pathology is heartbreaking.

  106. Mind control + micro-management = total madness, aka Warren Jeffs

  107. Madder than a sh*thouse rat….except even rats know not to breed with other immature rats.

  108. blackbird,

    Love the comment about Oprah!!!! I hope she does!

    Betty

  109. http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CHRG-110shrg44773/html/CHRG-110shrg44773.htm

    Harry Reids proposal DOA, but one can hope!

    Some are promoting that Harry Reid finish what he started!

    CRIMES ASSOCIATED WITH POLYGAMY: THE NEED FOR A COORDINATED STATE AND
    FEDERAL RESPONSE

  110. I saw a tweet earlier that say warren has told his followers to fight to the death to protect the temple. Can anyone confirm this?

  111. Anon 2:43 pm:

    “But if the officials tried to enter the temple, “our men must fight to the death,” the document continued.”

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/aug/08/more-evidence-introduced-as-jeffs-trial-goes-day/

    I have read the comment myself in one of Warren’s Priesthood records.

  112. One time,when I was getting the best of Medvecky,he threatened me by asking me to meet him halfway somewhere.I just laughed and posted this;Here is Medvecky threatening me.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4trn2lJxl00&feature=related

    Puuuuut em uuuuuup…put put puuuutum uuuuuup!

  113. One time,when I was getting the best of Medvecky,he threatened me by asking me to meet him halfway somewhere.I just laughed and posted this;Here is Medvecky threatening me.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4trn2lJxl00&feature=related

    Puuuuut em uuuuup…put put puuutum uuuuup!

  114. I think it is only fair to mention a comment made by Warren in March of 2003:

    “The men in our community [referring to Short Creek] who own guns are going to face a test greater than they can bear, if they are not careful. If you reach for a gun, instead of your prayers, you will perish.”

  115. I wish I could recall where I read Warren’s “defend to the death” statement, but I cannot.

  116. “Robert’ I am not familar with your posting here with any regularity but the baiting comments make you appear to be a troll like ‘Deci or ‘duaneh1′. You comments like little more than stabs at baiting and taunting, why don’t you try making an comment of interest or share your values than these postings?

  117. TexasTwist — They read that “defend to the death” statement in court today. I believe it was from his dictations after he was placed on the Most Wanted List but before his arrest, but can’t remember for sure.

    In Sam Brower’s book (Prophet’s Prey), he tells of an ex-FLDS woman who was concerned about the news coming out of Texas and she recalled having Merrill Jessop’s cell phone number. (Brower gives the woman a pseudonym to protect her identity.) According to Brower she had a phone conversation w/ Jessop, who seemed to be in over his head after the YFZ raid, and she dissuaded him from doing something that would result in bloodshed. So perhaps that is the reason this did not turn into another Waco. (Thank God.)

  118. It just doesn’t get better than this!

    In the News;

    Prosecutors showed a page from one of Jeffs’ journals.

    “If the world knew what I was doing, they would hang me from the highest tree,” Jeffs wrote in 2005, according to one of thousands of pages of notes seized from his Texas ranch

    I AM ALMOST SPEECHLESS

  119. Thanks, texasconnie.

    I read it in a news article today where it was introduced in court, but I also read it elsewhere over the past three years. The trial has brought on a variety of TMI side effects. :)

  120. His insistance that his every moment, word and thought be documented, has come back to bite.

  121. I’m looking forward to reading “Prophet’s Prey.”

    I don’t kindle.

    Where books are concerned, I hope to remain a Luddite as long as I can.

  122. texasconnie said: In Sam Brower’s book (Prophet’s Prey)

    Great book, by the way. I hope in it’s next printing, Brower can add the current trial and outcome as a final chapter.

  123. TexasTwist — I held out for quite a while but glad I finally opted for the Kindle. It’s a surprisingly good reading experience, and the books are cheaper. I can also read the books on my iPad or iPhone, so even if I forget my Kindle, I always have something to read with me.

    Now you can even loan a Kindle book to someone else after you’ve read it, and at a specified date it comes back in your library automatically. No more lost books because you can’t remember who you loaned it to!

    //end of commercial :)

  124. LOL on the commercial.

    I have friends and family who Kindle and I get testimonies from them all of the time about the benefits.

    Perhaps I’ll succumb when I can figure out how to scribble in the margins as efficiently as the old ways.

  125. “If the world knew what I was doing, they would hang me from the highest tree”

    OMG HUBRIS! Talk about an ego trip: he was getting off on the wrongness of it too.

    I may be counting chickens, but I’m beginning to dare to hope that the jury’s going to throw not just the book, but the whole damn library at him.

    It bothers me no end that it’s upsetting the jurors, and sad and sorry doesn’t even begin to cover how much it bugs me that these ugly awful truths coming out cause pain to other folks too. But this has to happen. It’s like lancing a boil or removing a tumor – it must come out for there to be any chance of healing at all.

  126. Twist, that was the hardest adjustment I had with the Kindle; everything else was easy. Highlighting is easy, but taking notes is cumbersome, I’ll admit.

  127. CaJim,I didn’t know there was any protocol on this forum.I have never had anyone to say that to me before.How do you want me to post? I am having a hard time trying to understand the question.

  128. Prosecution has rested. Defense called no witnesses. Jury deciding whether to deliberate tonight or reconvene tomorrow.

  129. Correction. Evidently they still have closing arguments to present.

    gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    Done w #warrenjeffs trial for today, closing arguments tomorrow at about 9:30am

  130. Photos of Warren Jeffs from 1988 to 2006

    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/52349524-78/jeffs-photos-warren-1988.html.csp

  131. Well, let’s see Robert the FLDS women and children are generally commented upon here as being victims and not ‘pathetic’. The breeding habits of rats, is a par comment that’s beneath you. Claiming to have outwitted the’Wizard of Odd’ isn’t much claim to fame by you ‘cuz we all know BillM is a half-wit, so he gave you too big of a head start. This ‘Bad Acts’ phase is more shocking and numbing than making sport of Warren’s prison life future. For my own tastes there’s enough criminal sexual abuses here, that are real crimes than to make jokes about future sex crimes in prisons. I trust you take my cautions as not wanting ‘Flds Texas’ posters to be seen as disdainful of crime victims nor wishing more sexual crimes committed on anyone, even perpetrators. Rape is an abnormal, violent and criminal act, let’s discuss stopping this conduct and bringing it’s perpetrators to Justice.

  132. I’m sorry if my post offend you,but i always thought it was up to the moderator to determine what is bad taste or not.Do you think that maybe you have a control issue? I mean,who appointed you as the judge of what others post.I’m sorry,but I seem to detect an arrogant attitude on your part.I suggest you reread the First Amendment. If you want to suspend parts of it,you need to go to Congress. and ask. Specifically,you are attempting to violate my rights as a citizen.

  133. Robert,
    One of the things that this blog is trying to accomplish is to be a place where current and ex FLDS members can come and find out information in a condensed location. If post here to insult then that defeats our purpose. We welcome all contributions bearing in mind the ultimate goal is to support FLDS members in their journey out of the grip of Jeffs. This is a very difficult journey for many of them as has been testified here by ex-members.

  134. Oh,I understand that.I have lived among several FLDS families and stay in contact with a few. They even make fun of their ownselves.I will respectfully bow out.

  135. I can’t find an audiotape of today’s tape played in court about the girls.
    i found the first on and have it on my blog. has anyone found an audiotape or a youtube of it? Thank you.

  136. What first one polyissowrong22?

  137. #
    I wish I could recall where I read Warren’s “defend to the death” statement, but I cannot.

    texastwist said this on August 8, 2011 at 3:09 PM
    `

    Here it is, Twist:
    Monday, June13,2005 — Page 324 — Record of President Warren Jeffs
    `

    “Then I told the bishop and his
    counselors and Brother Wendell: If the
    government comes on this land everyone goes to
    their house, talking of the families, and they sit
    praying and singing the songs of Zion and praying.
    And the workers surround the temple and a group
    of men go in the temple and hold circle prayers,
    and singing, praying fervently crying unto the
    Lord for deliverance from the attack. And that he
    should put guards around the sacred places,
    particularly the temple lot and he is to tell the
    government officials that we are peaceful, but they
    cannot come in our temple and he was to tell them I
    was not on that land, and if they tried to come into
    the temple, our men must fight to the death rather
    then let the wicked desecrate that house, and to
    approach the Lord through prayer for deliverance
    from each attack.”

  138. Thank you, feralfem.

  139. What first one polyissowrong22?

    WarrenTrialWatcher said this on August 8, 2011 at 9:45 PM

    —————————

    is that the person that keeps spamming this site with their polygamy/sister wives show blog?

  140. Yes, Julie.

  141. Robert, you certainly have a constitutional right to free speech, but CAJim has the right to verbally disagree with your content, tenor, or perceived motives as long as he does so in a respectful manner. If you’re fairly new here, I’m sure all would be forgiven. The events of the last week have all of our tensions high.

  142. Robert, I wish to appeal to all of our better angels to hold the recent revelations in respect that a truer light is shining forth, those in darkness are being exposed and reflect on Matt. 15:18-20. I am trying to stay upon the higher road and blieve most posters here reflect that effort, if that makes me sound arrogant sobe it but I am not trying to muzzle your rights.

  143. “May 15, 2004: I gave them a training on becoming celestial in nature, and that female emotions were based on wanting earthly blessings without an eternal view…”

    Where’s Mr Fred? Because Warren deserves an especially big FU for this one.

    This is how he does it, right here; minimize their emotions, devalue their feelings, rob them of their self-worth. Women are not lesser beings, they are PEOPLE, with every right to their own emotions, feelings, intuition and self-determination. You do not own them, and you cannot trade them like playing cards. This is the harm in polygamy and in all beliefs that value one gender over another – one short step more down this path and you’re devaluing everybody! And it becomes easy to sexualize children when you view them as male or female before you even see them as people. This is the heart of the disease. This is how he got there. People are not pawns!

  144. Robert,
    please don’t bow out
    HHG

  145. So-ex-mo
    hear hear

  146. Anyone know who is the bishop at YFZ ranch right now, since Merril got exed? The press should go after that person…

  147. So-ex-me great posting, evaluating someone to conform and perform at your whim leaves no room for the essence of a human being or personage. It is an attempt to erase the individual being and create a robot that feeds your pathetic demands for physical services. This so called ‘Celestial training’ is better described as sexual indoctrination for sole masculine gratification. Warren stated that the purpose of his instruction was to have multiple wives ready to suit his sensual gratifications, like well trained lap dogs, pretty devoid of any sympathy, empathy nor compassion for the condition of humanity. This needy self serving monster was head of this lost sect of sheeple and he needs to answer for his criminal mores and ethos.

    Warren is soon to see how a democratic society will remove one proven criminals rights and freedoms in order to protect and defend the societal values of other innocent and victimized citizens. ‘Your in Jail’ and can’t get out ought to dawn on this pedophiles noggin that we as a free people restrict anyone who practices a criminal disregard and moral corruption of other fellow human beings, no matter what phony whim they purport to be enacting.

  148. Supposedly, Lyle Jeffs is wearing two hats of bishopric both Short Creek and the YFZ Raunch. Outside of custody currently he is ‘Warrants’ acting surrogate at large. I like to think of him as the ‘Prince Proxy Pimp’.

  149. ” You do not own them, and you cannot trade them like playing cards.’

    so-ex-mo: Your post was beautifully stated. It is easy to look from the outside and want to scream at people who “allow” themselves to be abused: “WHY DO YOU LET HIM DO THAT TO YOU! SAY NO! WALK AWAY!”

    What is remarkable about the FLDS is that an entire community of people, men and women, both – go along with this. “All” it would take to stop it would be for everyone to stand up for themselves and say, “No. I’m not going to allow you to treat me this way. I’m a human being. I will think for myself, choose for myself and live in the way I believe is in the best interest of myself and my children.”

    Instead, they defend the right of their leaders to abuse them.

    The fact that the abuse is so pervasive and so evil just demonstrates how powerful WSJ’s techniques are. I think every male or female who was groomed for abuse and then abused – and blames themselves for allowing it – should look at this and realize they were not especially weak or gullible. No one seems to escape here without some sort of outside lifeline. Even Carolyn Jessop, in her book, Triumph, describes listening to Dr. Laura on her forbidden radio – and realizing that what she was experiencing was not right. Would she have escaped without that and other lifelines?

    There are thousands of people involved here, many highly intelligent and – possessing a wide range of personalities and gifts – yet all are impacted.

    This situation demonstrates clearly how devastatingly dangerous it is to grow up under someone who is intent on abusing their power over you. If they are given enough control – they will not only succeed, they will make you feel that you are at fault.

    I keep grasping for some sort of change that would allow authorities to recognize and remove children from situations in which they are actively being groomed for abuse. Not just from the FLDS – from any individual or group that demonstrates a history (and practice) of grooming children for abuse. That abuse can be sexual – but it can also be psychological dominance – involving the surrender of self-determination to another person. That is plenty evil all on its own.

  150. Jerrie, how about the FLDS Church tenet that says that women and children are the literal property if the FLDS Church, Priesthood and prophet? Not unlike the practice of polygyny, this tenet directly opposes the 14th Amendment of the US Constitution. The landmark case of Reynolds vs. US states that you can’t break an existing statute, in this specific case a standing US Constitutional Amendment, and use your religious practices as a rationale of a criminal defense in a Court of Law. This taught and practiced FLDS Church tenet enslaves women and children and is against Costitutionally protected rights.

  151. Exactly! They feel it’s their fault. That’s how abuse gains a foothold. And all this is just as true of the men as it is of the women – the principle they think makes them free actually enslaves them. No one can be truly free as long as they’re trying to control other people.

    That one comment just weirded me OUT. Nobody else controls my eternity, nobody nohow ever. No human being is ever allowed to get between me and God. If I could wish one thing for these women and men, I’d give them THAT testimony.

  152. CalJIM,

    “How about the FLDS Church tenet that says that women and children are the literal property if the FLDS Church, Priesthood and prophet?…This taught and practiced FLDS Church tenet enslaves women and children and is against Costitutionally protected rights.”

    Exactly! I’m disturbed that all the national focus is exclusively focused on the sexual abuse – and there seems to be a sense that putting WSJ in jail for life solves the problem. What he did was beyond horrible, but there are many other serious issues here that involve fundamental constitutionally protected rights of thousands of children and adults. If religious freedom can’t be used to defend child rape, why should we allow it to be used to defend enslavement?

    That is what grooming for abuse is: It is about convincing a person that they have no rights, no individual freedom and that they must go along with their abuser no matter what is asked of them.

    What shocks me is how effectively WSJ managed to control an entire community. The lesson I get from that is how incredibly dangerous it is to allow children to be raised in that environment. I also think it should help other abuse victims realize they were not at fault for being weak. Whole communities are not made up exclusively of weak people.

    The extent of this abuse may have been hidden from the outside world in the past, but it is not hidden now. The question is, what are we going to do about it?

  153. “No human being is ever allowed to get between me and God. If I could wish one thing for these women and men, I’d give them THAT testimony.”

    What makes this so difficult is that many religions place leaders between the faithful and their God. I agree with you 100%, but that is my faith.

    It is when a religion teaches that the faithful must give up control of their lives to the religious leader in return for salvation that we start to have problems.

    Turning to a leader for guidance is fine. Believing that leader is a source of great wisdom and has better access to the mind of God than you do is also OK. Voluntarily choosing to live in accordance with that teaching is OK.

    However, a line has been crossed here – and in crossing it, thousands of men and women have lost their freedom – and their children automatically lose theirs as well simply because they were born into the faith.

    The problem lies in defining that line. At what point does a faith become so controlling that it can be determined to be actively violating its members’ constitutional rights, or grooming children for abuse by intentionally stripping them of any knowledge or understanding of their rights?

  154. Jerrie, Indoctrination, indoctination and indoctrination is ‘Warrants’ mantra. One way that I can see that ‘Warrant’ reached for total control and dominance of his sheeple was his full embrace of “One Man Rule”. Even MadeWacky now renounces this axiom as poison for the ‘Kool Aide’ drinkers. Then we see that ‘Warrant’ was the Alta Academy teacher and principal for two decades, during that time he totally indoctrinated the ‘Keep Sweet’ dogma and unquestioning devotion to the profit. Finally, the declaration that Short Crick is no longer the,”Gathering place” and Jeffs has been inspired to scatter the flock into the ‘Lands of Refuge’ and the ‘EndTime’ has begun elapsing. His ‘gulag’ enclaves are the manifestation, along with constructing the top secret Temple, gives ‘Warrant’ the final plan to establish total “One Man Rule”.

  155. Case is back in the jury’s hands. Defense offered no closing argument, per Jeffs’s request. I don’t expect deliberation to last very long.

  156. who is willie jessop kidding? he interviewed with beth karas of in session,, oh yeah he was horrified! lol Liar Liar,,, she asked himi if he knew about the BED in temple,,He changed the subject,,,, Of COURSE he knew,,he said it was the gardeners bed! lol

  157. I don’t think most reporters (Mike Watkiss the notable exception) understand that members of this cult have practiced “lying for the Lord” their entire lives. It is so deeply ingrained it doesn’t even seem like lying to them anymore. Willie Jessop makes for good TV: he looks more modern, speaks well, and seems convincing. But if his lips are moving, he’s lying. It’s that simple.

  158. Dressed a little different. They claim they are different. Base is the same.

    Q. “Who would you like to marry some day?”
    A. ” Who ever the priesthood chooses for me.”

    “Our leaders come to us, when ever that time is and say that we have a young man or lady ready for you. And we believe it comes as a direct revalation from God to our leaders.”

    What about jealousy?

    ” The man is not ours. We are given to the men and we can not claim him.”

    http://youtu.be/RSs-ub1VWm8 Youth Polygamy Interview

  159. Beth Karas reporting jury gave him the maximum: life on the first count; 20 years on the 2nd count.

  160. The judge granted the prosecution motion to make the sentences run consecutively, which means the sentence is life PLUS 20 years. Still waiting for clarification whether there is any chance for parole.

  161. HOOOOORAY

  162. Good deal on the consecutive.

    The AG’s office will be able to provide the facts on the parole issue. No doubt the reporters on the scene are seeking that clarification as we “speak.”

  163. Life plus 20!

  164. Life in prison is still not enough for what Warren did to my grand-niece. At least he won’t do it to anyone else’s precious daughters, nieces, sisters, or grand-nieces. Now, Texas, finish the job and go after those who enabled his perversion by sacrificing their daughters to further their own status in the FLDS. Wayne, your mother, Brenda and I will never forgive you for doing this to your own daughter, Brenda Lei. You bartered and betrayed the trust and love of an innocent lovely little girl. Shame on you. Your mother, who was molested by two step-fathers, did not raise you to offer up your daughers for molestation. Shame, shame on you. Janet Johanson

  165. From Twitter — @gosanangelo GoSanAngelo.com
    TDCJ just told me that #WarrenJeffs won’t be eligible for parole for at least 45 years. Jeffs, who is 55, would be 100 years old by then.

  166. Thank you Texas. Thank you jury. Oh happy day!

  167. Eldorado Success reports that Warren Jeffs is already on board a DPS plane headed for the state penitentiary at Huntsville, TX.

    Here are the telephone rules he will now have to abide by –

    The following rules apply to the system:

    Phones are available from 7:00 AM – 10:00 PM, unless conditions dictate a change.
    Calls are limited to 15 minutes.
    You will hear a warning message one minute before being disconnected.
    Offenders are limited to 240 minutes per month.
    All calls, except to the Attorney of Record, are subject to monitoring and recording.
    Calls may only be made to home land line telephone numbers. No calls are allowed to cell phones, internet services, 800 numbers, businesses, pay phones, or international numbers.
    To receive calls, the telephone number owner must be listed on the offender’s Visitors List. Additionally, the name on the Visitors List must match the name on registrant’s driver’s license or state identification card. Additionally, this information must also be reflected on their telephone listing or bill.
    To register you will be required to confirm that you:
    Are the registered owner of the telephone number.
    Are not registering a wireless number.
    Agree to allow the offender to call the phone number.
    Are at least 18 years old.
    Will not forward calls or make 3-way calls received from the offender.

  168. Janet, I so wish we could get Brenda Lei and others out of there. If there is anything any of us can do, please let us know.

  169. Texasconnie, that sounds like heaven. Those are terrific restrictions on phone usage. Jeffs doesn’t know what hit him but he will soon.

  170. John Hollenhorst:

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705388924/The-downfall-of-Warren-Jeffs-began-long-before-Texas-raid.html?pg=1

  171. John Hollenhorst for the Deseret News:

    http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705388924/The-downfall-of-Warren-Jeffs-began-long-before-Texas-raid.html?pg=1

  172. So what happens if Warren wants to pro se any appeals or post-conviction motions?

    Will his access to the phone be increased?

  173. Sorry for the dupe posts…that was me.

  174. Judge told him that ProSe isn’t allowed on appeal.

  175. PT, do you mean she said he cannot appeal on those grounds or that he cannot represent himself during appellate process?

  176. She said that the appellate court usually doesn’t allow appeals made pro se.

  177. So who goes up for trial next? A Jessop? I know they have four more but does anyone know who/which/what order for trials?

    Thanks so much!

  178. I think it might be everybody’s favourite dad, Merrill Jessop

  179. That last post was me

  180. Merrill will just call in sick again. He doesn’t have the gonads to face the music.

  181. ty for the update and confirmation the news just said it was him, too!

  182. Jeffs already at the big house. Unsure if he will be offered any protection. No chance of parole until 45 years in. I don’t think they have a chance for an appeal but I am sure after the dirt settles the dust will rise and we will hear some attempt for some kind of push or another. Even if only self-serving to the agenda and not the prophet.

  183. The other pending charges other than Merril are:

    Wendell Nielsen — 3 counts of bigamy

    Leroy Johnson Steed — Sexual assault on a child, bigamy, tampering with evidence

    Warren — bigamy

    I have no idea about the schedule.

  184. oh you so rock! Thank you so much, texastwist! what is the feel out your way? I imagine Texans are proud their state could do great justice this week!

  185. Christi Paul — CNN HLN

  186. I want to congratulate the Admins and the contributors to this site for keeping this issue in focus as well as helping to bring the focus onto the larger problems of polygamy in general.

    I’ve learned a lot from you guys and have actually reformulated my position on polygamy from a “what’s the harm” libertarian approach to an understanding that polygamy can be a problem and that the government has an interest in prohibiting it.

    In a way I wish I could gloat to all those who called us “bigots” and “haters.” The factual evidence shows that all of us “bigots” and “haters” were not only correct, but that the actual truth was probably much worse than many of us imagined.

  187. Some of the evidentiary photos from the trial, brides obscured.

    http://www.fox13now.com/entertainment/kstu-warren-jeffs-child-brides-photos-warren-jeffs-and-child-brides-20110809,0,1227866.photogallery

    Thank you Texas!

  188. The faces are obscured.

    Be aware, though, that the images are still disturbing.

    http://www.fox13now.com/entertainment/kstu-warren-jeffs-child-brides-photos-warren-jeffs-and-child-brides-20110809,0,1227866.photogallery

  189. Wow…those pictures are downright sad and creepy. HLN described one pic, the one of 2 girls [one who just barely came to his hips] as 2 of his ‘wives’…. Please tell me the tiny one is just a little girl in the pictiure and not a ‘wife’! She looks about 6 or 8!

  190. A cowboy hat?

    Oh, please.

  191. Good to see you, Ron in Houston.

    Thank you for all of your contributions!

  192. RIH – I too have been educated and have come to the conclusion there can be no live and let live on polygamy because polygamy rarely exists outside of coercive cultural or religious sanctions.

    I thanked you a while ago but don’t know if you saw – how much I have learned from you!!!!

  193. Ron in Houston, your voice was always informed and you should the ability to reason out a truer stance which added greatly to those who had an interest or were drawn into the frey. Your legal knowledge at many points shown through the foggy banks and sand bars of falsehoods to an eventual clear course of reasoning out to a balanced fairness and truth. Your right that the ‘Avalache of Evidence’ was beyond anyones wildest imaginings put closer to the eventual facts than all of the ‘search warrant’ and 4th Amendment naysayers. I think everyone who’s tracked this saga knows what the lessons learned and renewed comfort that the evidence proved beyond any doubts. I am resolved that the souces of these exposed practices need to be challenged and met not ignored and stymied, left unchecked it will grow and return like a virulent strain of barbarism.

  194. Warren Jeffs Trial: The Wit and Wisdom of Judge Barbara Walther

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2011/08/09/warren_jeffs_trial_the_wit_and_wisdom_of_judge_barbara_walther.html

    Hat tip to Brooke Adams for putting this on her Twitter.

  195. To prevent any confusion, Brooke is not the author of the Slate article, she simply tweeted it to let others know about it.

    Torie Bosch is the writer.

  196. #42 is pretty creepy too – the ones on the far left are sadly small.

    When did he stop allowing printed fabric in their dresses? Some of these pictures predate that, going back some years.

  197. Ron in Houston — good to see your post. Your legal commentary has always been helpful, and it’s encouraging to see how your own views have changed from a strict “live and let live” libertarianism to acknowledging the need to root out what really amounts to a criminal element in our society. Thanks for sharing that.

  198. http://www.taiwannews.com.tw/etn/news_content.php?id=1675849

    Canadian police are preparing to send investigators to the U.S. to investigate allegations that child brides from a Canadian polygamous commune were sent across the border to marry older men.
    The Royal Canadian Mounted Police launched a new criminal investigation into a polygamous community in western Canada after allegations surfaced earlier this year amid a constitutional case examining Canada’s anti-polygamy law.

  199. Ron

    Great to see you – and yes this is beyond anyones comprehension.

    I just hope the flock comes to the realization how bad it is and do what they NEED to DO to change course.

    Not holding my breath. Yes polygamy leads to such disasters. The Sister wives clutch is a red herring, thats not portraying how it plays out at all.

    Warren is perhaps one of the worst offenders, but I put up Ervil as even worse, with some 25 murders under his belt and many of those in Texas, some in Houston too.

    Looks like Texas is seeing a recurring nightmare. Hope this helps turn it around.

  200. Janet Johanson

    Wow! So many who have hung in so long! My hat off to you, its been 10 years I think.

    Jay

  201. 11,000 hits today

  202. Expect we will have a nice new mugshot of Warren to join the others in the collection.

  203. I need to talk to someone here with more BM experience.

    Jay

  204. Jay, its been almost 25 years since my sister, Brenda, died on August 15, 1987. She and I both wept to hear how her oldest grandchild was groomed, seduced, and raped. I watch, and speak, for those who cannot speak. It is wrenchingly heartbreaking though. Thank you for standing up for us too. More to come, so keep the flag flying. Janet Johanson

  205. Also

    Hmmmm um… some one just called looking for who sourced FOX News with the photo’s now posted. I can only guess amongst 2 posible apostates or 1 activist and it wasn’t me! That news agency just took a peak here!

  206. That is good news, Walton.

  207. “Expect we will have a nice new mugshot of Warren to join the others in the collection.”

    I’m still yearning for a new Bat-boy photo.

    BAT-BOY! SHACKLED AND CHAINED!

  208. Jay Beswick said this on August 9, 2011 at 6:22 PM: I need to talk to someone here with more BM experience.

    I can’t help you with that.

    However, I’m using my granny’s home remedy for any overflowing scourge.

  209. Janet

    The serious work begins now! 11 years a go when we were getting ignored, we had a pact to record calls, thousands of them. In 2002 Flora had hundreds of audio cassettes. Debbie Palmer the same. Les Zitting the same. I have put but a handful on YouTube. The RCMP in Canada! Canada INS, the FBI and so on. Threats from Snow, Christensen & Martineau, via Rod Parker, newspaper quotes, letters from the attorneys of U.S. Senators!

    Its 2 issues, one being ignored, in light of what Warren & Texas have now confirmed and a list of other groups where the same has occured and is occuring. We never found Kenyon Blackmore, Winston’s cousin who was marrying his own daughters. We also discovered girls like Leah Sliwinski in Montana, from her sibblings who had cross married FLDS apostates. The girls are endless when you start back tracking, but know one is looking at these.

  210. Thank you for your strength, Janet.

  211. Kenyon Blackmore…Thank you for that reminder, Jay.

  212. Hey Jay

    That deseret news article proclaims that news release with Ross Chatwin that you helped put together as the start of his downfall

    “HILDALE, Washington County

    — The downfall of Warren Jeffs did not begin with the highly publicized raid by Texas Rangers in 2008.

    One of the turning points came years earlier on the Utah-Arizona border when Ross Chatwin stood on his front porch and held up a book with a swastika on its cover.”

  213. texastwist

    Let me put it another way! Who here is a match for Mad Bill M. or initials BM? I know what I know, but haven’t kept up with his rants! If I face off with him on a major news network will he beat me under the table? Whom here is his match or equal?

    Sorry for being cryptic before!

  214. What major news network would ever put Mad Bill on the air???

  215. I understood what you mean’t, Jay. I’m just a sucker at times for a good straight line.

    I still can’t be of any help.

  216. I need an edit function!

  217. Jay

    ill bill is an ex con, having served prison time for burglary of foster child records – he was being investigated for abuse and the rest is history.

    He had his hands burned by a sitter after he stole from her, his hands still disfigured and undergoing surgery still, per his own posts.

    He is just a blowhard who is nasty and banned from pretty much all blogs but his own, and even some of those have been deleted by hosts due to improper content.

    His followers no longer AHEM follow him, after a series of embarrassing posts he made.

    Oh I think he has one bootlicker, deb lee aka april day.

    The best advice is to ignore him because he is angry that yet another molester got caught and given a stiff sentence, there is nothing there with him worth debating, he is in Florida ranting like a nutjob.

    Waste of time talking to / at him.

  218. HAH!

    Jerry Springer might put him on!

  219. I notice the audio recording was from the Cadillac instead of in the raid. But it appears another copy was found in the raid. My question is this: Why the —— wasn’t a search warrant requested immediately as a result of this tape in the Cadillac. Why wait for the hoax call to seize everything.

  220. Just thinking about Betty Jessop

    http://www.oprah.com/oprahshow/Inside-the-YFZ-Polygamist-Ranch/1

    So how do you help a lot of people who are prisoners of mind control and really believe that living differently equates eternal damnation? Where do you start? Seems like the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave kind of owes it to these people.

    I am but an ignorant, relocated to the South, West Coast Jewess, child of the baby boom. I’ve been encouraged to think for myself and have a relationship with my creator, who supports me in making my own choices.

    I’d send someone some money, if I knew it was gonna really make a difference.

  221. I have hope that this will not be stuffed under the rug and forgotten, just saw on yahoo, “Jeffs sentence” trending as #3.

  222. RIH
    earlier I posted thanks but it was under anonymous

    Janet Johnson, my heart aches for you that your “victory” should be so sorrowful…

    Jay – sometimes I think you are a blowhard, but mostly I think you need to be heard and supported to know that YOU HAVE DONE GOOD – I am sure if you ever were put up against BM you would toast him, or rather he would toast himself.

  223. Observing,
    The Hope Org (top right hand links) does good and real work to support individuals trying to get out…

  224. Stamp

    It was amazing!

    I had never met Ross before! He called on a Tuesday and wanted the Press Opt of the next Friday. There was something happening that next Saturday at the LeRoy Johnson meeting hall. I was reluctant to help a stranger. Without devulging which brother, I knew one of his very well, a brother I would go out on a limb for. Once I was sure he would not waffle I began cranking out Press Releases.. Its a crap shoot 1 or 10 news agencies might show up. 20 showed up!

    Inside Ross’s house before the event, I saw a guy I had met with before, but did not imediately place him. It was SH of DPS Arizona HOMELAND Security, preparing for the worst! We had never had a Press Conference in Colorado City. We had tried Zion National Park and the park gave me a tongue lashing for the one in 2002.

    Sheriff Sheahan of Mohave County was not planning on getting involved in the January 2004 event, but via Buster Johnson I relaid to Sheriff Sheahan his career would cease if one reporter was harmed. HE HAD SWAT teams on each corner of Ross’s property, overkill but it was beautiful!

    We used the distraction to film the babyland graveyard with a Los Angeles film crew. 62 unmarked baby graves. The CC police were ordered off of Ross’s property and busy staring at the event, missing what I was up to else where. Of course Ben Bistline took a threatening letter the same time and the FBI stepped in to that.

    I did the Press release on Ben’s threat and thats when a radio station in St. George got it wrong that I had been murdered. That had activist and the AG calling me to see if it was true. I was on the phone several hours and upset several activist who could not reach me. It was Ben’s daughter that told him I was killed.

    Way to much went on behind the seens and daily back then.

    The MOLE in this group, but his choice to ID himself relayed men ousted by the hour or minute. He used a liason and emailed me. I emailed both Attorney Generals, hundreds of emails to and from them.

    I can’t write a book, but one needs to get written!

  225. Cement, I think I can answer your question. But it’ll be the real short version. :)

    I suppose it took a little time for the dust to settle. When Warren found out the recording was out, priority one was to get the 12 year old and others out of there. In my opinion, the delay was for three reasons. 1) They needed someone dumb / brave enough, and convincing enough to make the hoax call. 2) They needed time to plan, and gather their forces. 3) They needed some reasonable assurance that the 12 year old — and possibly the 15 year old — was back there again. April was perfect because it’s a regular Conference time.

    Reason 3 seems to be the most likely.

  226. The Press Conference in Eldorado came out of the pilot and what he saw. Boots on the ground at that Press Conference was Buster Johnson (my hero), Flora Jessop, Dave Doran & John Krakauer, I think that was May of 2004. The Press Releases were from Linda Walker & I, we were on our computers doing what we did best, missing out on the excitement in ElDorado.

  227. Heah Stamp, Put on Merle Hagards,”Huntsville” tune so we can have some nice Red ‘neck’ Brick Walls tune.

  228. Here’s a document from the Texas prison system, which details what will be required of the felonious profit Warren Jeffs, He will be only allowed to wear prison issued clothes, No religious undergarments allowed, he will be given physical & mental examinations.

    http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/publications/cid/OffendOrientHbkNov04.pdf

  229. “…down to Huntsville,
    “I’m bringin’ in a load of time”.

    “That ole long haired Judge in Eodorado,
    “Didn’t pay my story no mind”.

    “They’re takin’ me down to Huntsville,
    “I’m bringin’ in a load of time”.

    Sing it Merle…

  230. Heah Stamp, Put on Merle Hagards,”Huntsville” tune so we can have some nice Red ‘neck’ Brick Walls tune.

    caJIM said this on August 9, 2011 at 9:22 PM

    Ask and you shall receive, enjoy:

  231. Try again:

  232. TacoPower, I think it is more like they didn’t know where Merrianne Jessop Jeffs was. There are lots of MaryAnn Jessop’s in the FLDS. It wasn’t until the raid turned up the correct Merrianne Jessop complete with pictures and dictations that sealed the deal.

  233. http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20110809/rcmp-investigate-bc-polygamous-community-110809/

    Mounties heading to US

  234. Better late than never Marylou. Young Colleen signed the proclamation to the nation that she was in Eldorado, but that was back in October 2010. She could be anywhere now.

  235. CTV via Ben Winslow:

    VANCOUVER — The RCMP is preparing to head to Texas to look for more than two dozen brides from Bountiful, B.C., who were allegedly sent across the border as teens to marry older men, including a polygamous leader now facing a life sentence for sexually assaulting two teenage girls.

    http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/Canada/20110809/rcmp-investigate-bc-polygamous-community-110809/

  236. Mad B’s twitter is disgusting. I nearly forgot all about him until I saw his name floating around today.

  237. Sorry for being late they added an update to story saying they would be coming here due to hearing about child brides trafficked into the US during the Jeffs trial. I wasn’t sure if I should or could copy and paste so just left a link.

  238. Here’s a film made in the 1960′s at the Ellis prison in Huntsville, Texas, Warren Jeffs will find that not has changed much, the white clothes, the hard often brutal work, long hours, for the Texas prison system as the film mentions is a southern prison system, not anything like the Utah prisons where Warren was earlier.

  239. Not much news coming out of Colorado…

    Yo! Denver Post?

  240. My bad, Marylou.

    I didn’t see that it had already been posted.

    Just links are always fine and are a sure way to avoid copyright violations.

  241. Thank you, Texas justice system, thank you Elissa, Becky, Brent, Ezra, Robert and Arnold Richter,Ross Chatwin and Isaac Wyler, thank you for your courage and determnation. I wish I could do more, and hope my little piece of the story helps those who know me. Than you Jay, Carolyn, Mike, and yes Flora (though her appproach is annoying, she has done so much good) and all others who continually keep the story in front of the public. I try each day to heal from the crap piled on me for the first part of my life in the flds and try to stay positive and while I am happy Warren will never see freedom, I don’t see a lot of his followers ever experiencing freedom either because of the prison of the mind they are in.

  242. AHhhh…..music for the ears, Thanx, A Texan. I think it’s rather funny that the man that considers red too special to wear is now surrounded in red on all four sides, Hee,hee.

  243. News reports here in Texas indicate that Warren Jeffs is now at the Byrd Unit in Huntsville,Texas. Don’t have a link, but here’s info on the prison where the felonious profit has arrived in the cellosteel kingdom.

    http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/unitdirectory/du.htm

    BYRD (DU)
    Correctional Institutions Division – Prison (Diagnostic Intake Facility)

    ACA Accredited Unit Since May 2008

    Unit Full Name:
    James (Jay) H. Byrd Unit
    Unit Address and Phone Number:
    21 FM 247, Huntsville, Texas 77320
    (936) 295-5768 (**008)
    Unit Location:
    One (1) mile north of downtown Huntsville on FM 247 in Walker County
    Senior Warden:
    Edward Howell
    Regional Director:
    Michael Upshaw, Region I
    CI Division Deputy Director:
    William L. Stephens
    Date Unit Established or On Line:
    May 1964
    Total Employees *:
    313
    Security Employees *:
    215
    Non-Security Employees *:
    70
    Windham Education Employees *:
    0
    Contract Medical and Psychiatric Employees *:
    Medical = 24; Psychiatric = 4
    Offender Gender:
    Male
    Maximum Capacity*:
    1,365
    Custody Levels Housed:
    G1, G2, Transient
    Approximate Acreage:
    93
    Agricultural Operations:
    Unit Garden; Field Crops; Assists Goree Unit in horse breeding program.
    Manufacturing and Logistics Op.:
    Outside Sales Warehouse; Modular Installation
    Facility Operations:
    Unit Maintenance
    Additional Operations:
    Central Region Offender Transportation; Waste Water Treatment Plant – serving Byrd, Huntsville and Wynne Units
    Medical Capabilities:
    Ambulatory medical, dental and mental health services with two wheelchair accommodated cells. Telemedicine Services available. Managed by UTMB.
    Educational Programs:
    Literacy (Adult Basic Education/GED)
    Additional Programs/Services:
    Adult Education Program (upon availability), Project RIO, Reentry Planning, Chaplaincy Services
    Community Work Projects:
    None
    Volunteer Initiatives:
    Substance Abuse Education, Support Groups, Religious/Faith Based Studies and Activities

  244. Ken Driggs on NPR Talk of the Nation today:

    http://www.npr.org/2011/08/09/139249053/warren-jeffs-sentenced-for-sexual-assault

    Audiostream is available.

  245. We need thanks to the media or Press who never gave up!

    Robert Gehrke who was SLC Trib & AP was my first really solid supporter. He was doing OREO Ice Cream at 2 in the morning and I was pounding computer keys (August 2000). The Lift Off prophesy which was Sept. 14 ish became our first platform for serious press in the year 2000. The Lift Off gave us Larry Warren, Paul Murphy (a news anchor then), John Hollenhorst, maybe Dan Rascon and maybe Brent Huntsaker, its not clear to me when the latter two intersected with me. Ben Winslow was ALWAYS in it! In the begining KSL radio carrying a portable recorder. Mike Watkiss was there as long as I can remember, the Arizona others were less visible in the begining. I think Andy Murr with Time Magazine was in it by Nov. 2000. Suzan Mazur was in it by October or November (Seven Brides for 1 Brother). Fabian Dawson from the Province in Canada had covered it for a decade and we connected by October of 2000. Robert Matas with the Globe & Mail in Canada. Jacque Rivard from Canada’s CVC. Oleh Rumak with his 3 documentaries, from Calgary or Toronto? Wendy Kranz 60 Minutes! Sandy Glystein Dateline NBC, Lucia with Connie Chung. Later John Dougherty who wrote almost 40 indepth pieces. Cult Experts Randy Noblit in Texas and Steven Kent in Canada. Lorna Craig, Tapestry, TAP lawyer Doug White. When 6,000 FLDS photographs were at risk Utah Senator Ron Allen stored them securely for us.

    It is endless the names of and numbers of those involved, journalist who made this personal. Journalist that were annoyed by our thousands of emails, wondering how much was true or accurate.

    My main computer crashed and I am working on memory. Mr. Folkerson who could be in Colorado City in 30 minutes to take photographs! Sandman who went to the Las Vegas TV station. Jim Ashurst, just to many names of those adding layers of stones or bricks to a foundation created long before us. Ben Bistline who laid the foundation we all built from! Sadly the loss of Don Cox whose wit and dry sense of humor brought a smile to many. Don a product of the 1987 Stubb vs Jeffs lawsuit. Cyril Bradshaw of Centennial Park who offered me bread crumbs to follow on my first day in this 11 years ago.

    Without the Apostates, none of this would of been posible!

    A special thanks to Warren Jeffs for cursing the judge, jury, President of the United States, Flora, me, Isaac and a cast of thousands! Warren had he used his attorneys would of made this more difficult.

    To Texas! THANK GOD FOR TEXAS! Iam not realy to religious, but GOD BLESS TEXAS!!!!

  246. VANCOUVER — The RCMP is preparing to head to Texas to look for more than two dozen brides from Bountiful, B.C.,

    You can imagine the greeting they’re gonna get! Another 3hr wait at the gate while the girls are shuffled over a back fence, or into some ‘hole of hiding’ on the property. Unfortunatley, now that BC had stated their intentions, the shuffling may start immediately. I wish BC the best of luck!

  247. God Bless Bill Medvecky, BIG LOVE, Sister Wives, the opposition, with out 2 sides, there was no controversy. My grandfather owned the ARGUS Newspaper in Illinois turn of the century over 100 years ago! It takes controversy to sell the news and or keep battles alive. Mad Bill’s extremes to support Warren showed Americans a extremist view of justified sex with children.

    As hard as it is, its the opposition that has fueled the fires.

    BIG LOVE was a fantasy show, but it kept the public focused on what might be real or imagined. Sadly more people want to be entertained, than informed!

  248. MadeWacky is far more than some worthy opponent, he’s a convicted felon that has paid his debt to society. Unfortunately, instead of learning a more positive response to his criminal experience MadeWacky espouses strangely held and warped view of American society, justice and lae enforcement. MadeWacky holds to a basically seditious view of America in it’s present form. He wants broader and far more liberal interpretations of US Constitutional meanings, far beyond anything the Supreme court has ever decided by legal precedent. Owing to his incarceration he espouses a total mistrust of any/all elected officials, government authorities(especially Child Protection Services) and Law Enfocement from a mall private security guard up to an FBI Agent or US Attorney. MadeWacky further holds a total negative viewpoint of major religions(especially contemptuous of Southern Baptists), women’s and/or children’s ‘not for profit’ organizations(he claims they are riddled with sexual deviants and crime prone leaders) and he abhors Press, Public and Expert WitnessesHe feels they are hopelessly biasewd and following some hatefilled agenda).

    He’s a very unbalanced and not some cute eccentric that likes to argue the oppostions viewpoint, he’s more criminal, seditious and serious about his rebellious agenda.

  249. I have a dialog going with BM, a news agency showed interest in an extreme view, pro Jeffs. It won’t be an FLDS 1st warder. I have my own agenda, but it would depend on how looney he is in front of a camera. If its like Warren in front of the judge, it will unravel. If he is rational, it would demonstrate a point I laid out, imspite of a mountain of evidence, an extremist is always an extremist!

    He says he never claimed to be an ex lawyer or attorney. My experience has been if you lie to the press, they will catch you at it. They have resources to go back decades and look at quotes.

    Giving MedVecky a platform, might support an observation I have made and presented, to some one other than the press.

    When Mohave County DA William Ekstrom Jr refused my calls in November of 2000, I switched tactics and gave him to Suzan Mazur to interview. She asked my questions and I had his quotes in print. Depends on your objective, extremist works for me! All out crazy and fails to finish the interview a waste of money and time.

    Its not a face to face, rather a satelite remote thing, but I am not sure I would want to debate him. His rational inspite of whats been revealed is all over the map! But, if I were to choose another, who would be better than Bill, he wants a platform!

  250. Jay

    I dont think any journalists will touch ill bill with a ten foot pole, he is an angry old coot who is NOT articulate enough to get a point across, he has been knocked down to the point where he just spits out cuss words, accusations and defamation on other people.

    Its funny to watch him implode but I dont think he is fit for prime time.

  251. If you could find out who Celia is she would be a good choice.
    How about Deci… he isn’t insane but he sure supports the lowest age limits possible

  252. Oh and there is Julie Worth – who used to post on Brooke Adams blog and was posting in favor of (rather against the raid on search and seizure basis) on CNN during the trial…He is also, I think, a publically known person.

    Deci certainly could be contacted – others here know exactly who he is

  253. caJIM said, of this board’s own Beetlejuice:

    “holds a total negative viewpoint of major religions(especially contemptuous of Southern Baptists)”

    Even a stopped (smashed, backwards) clock can be right twice a day.

    http://stopbaptistpredators.org/index.htm

    I keep checking the TDCJ online offender search to see if ol’Warren’s number among the sinners has been assigned yet, but no luck.

  254. Churches don’t create hazards to society; when they do, they do so through a deviance that previously only Satanists could be identified with. Few call this practice a church, or religious.

    When organizations harm, they violate all principles of state registration for the purpose they registered and were convened. It matters little what they call themselves, church, religion, charity, or company. Penalties are not enough and incarceration along with confiscation of assets to pay for it, along with the rehabilitation charges for those harmed is the only reasonable and rational stance society can take – to avoid the derivative harm of having to pay for the incarcertaion along with the investigation and prosectuion, along with incurring the hazards of living with the havoc that these organizations wreak upon society.

    Just as the Mafia’s assets were confiscated, so much any criminal organization’s assets be confiscated to rectify the harm – at their own expense, not society’s expense, for doing what they willfully chose to do by cultivating such deviance. Does the public really have a choice? Does it really matter that the organization was a company or a church or acted under the alias of a charity?

    Drawing the line on public expense where hazards are created under the banner and flag of non-deviant organizations must be an investment by society, or the model will be repeated ad infinitum, and profits and assets will be created without expense to society, leaving society to pay the bills. What arrogance!

  255. I refuse to go to BM’s blog page, but from looking at his Facebook page, it seems his main issue is anti-Child Protective Services and anti-government, and he latched on to the FLDS to support his views that adults should be able to do whatever they want with their children with no gov’t interference.

    He makes bizarre and obviously false claims about his own importance and influence. He must be having to reboot now that Willie has disavowed Warren; how can he be best friends and legal advisor to both of them.

  256. MadeWacky’s latest posting comments that absolute power corrupts absolutely. He’s called for an end to,”One Man Rule” but forgets he’s not a FLDS Church member. He’s, also, calling for the ‘Lands of Refuge” to take down their fenced in enclaves, not unlike Willie R. ‘Thug’ Jessop’s call for the watchtower at the YFZ Raunch to be taken down. He still thinks he’s befriend a counter-culture that doesn’t share much in common with his own family and I am sure his wife and family would flee away from the FLDS Church members. BillM in many ways is still mentally incarcerated from his past felony conviction.

  257. Rebecca Musser played a huge role in helping law enforcement,, and i am glad she spoke yesterday!

  258. Brooks Long is going to be on In Session in just a few minutes

  259. I am glad the Canadian’s are coming to take care of their own. But, the forwarning publicity probably won’t help them find the girls. Wonder if they will also kick out of Canada the girls up there that are US citizens.

  260. All the Canadian girls who live in the US are here illegally.

  261. ben winslow put a mug shot warren jeffs at prison up here is the site

    http://twitpic.com/63x9mg

  262. heres the other one

    http://yfrog.com/gzibombj

  263. Bill was also a supporter of that convicted child molester Tony Alamo, and he claimed he was going to make the trial where they were taking the children from some of his flock into foster care.

    While its sad those kids had to go to foster care, look at the reason why – those cults abuse children.

    If you are going to give your children to a pedophile they SHOULD BE TAKEN AWAY.

    But Bill doesnt think so.

  264. What an ugly freak Warren is! I have a feeling that smile has been wiped off his face already.

    Or perhaps he is at peace now that he has reached the Cell-o-Steel Kingdom.

  265. The Daily Beast has new articles saying loyal flds installed an exact replica of Warrant’s cell, (with potty, plus a plywood figure of him,) at the entrance inside their church bldg back up in AZ/UT… plus, today same writer says there’s a 38 ft tall statue of Warrant being fabricated that will be placed up in flds home area also. I am not stating anything as factual here, I am relaying what I read today and a couple days ago. Both these items sound pretty darn flaky to me, but my eyebrows have been raised numerous times by reoprts of things flds and Warrant have been reported to have done, which turn out to be true..many things I would also term flaky, to put it mildly… They’ll have to get all the specs on the next cell he’s being installed in, and adjust the “church entrance set” they already have, if this is true. Poor souls. This is how loyal they are to a dead-end mindset they just can’t shake.

  266. QUICK,Quick,quick…..come to the church to get the word on the ‘EndTime’, hurry there isn’t much time. the Tribulaton is elapsing and the EVIL forces are becoming unleashed. No time to answer any questions, get to a ‘Land of Refuge’ immediately, are you current on your tithing and listed as ‘Temple Worthy’? HURRY, Hurry, hurry they’ve taken our prophet, who knows whose next only the ‘Lands of Refuge’ will ensure your safety and salvation, get thee to the revealed places.

    The ones who aren’t going to buy the quick sale are going to have to wade knee deep into evidence, facts and records that say their beloved prophet is an actual sex deviate that twisted his teachings to match his pedophile practices. Amen.

  267. the idea that you have to be married to make it to heaven is lds and it’s been around since their beginnings, yes?? So how much rocket science does it take aggrandizing dudes such as Warrant and pappy Rulon, to come up with the teaching that girls have to be married as soon as possible, especially if the Destructions are imminent? Oh yeah, don’t forget, all the young flds men don’t need to be married…. ’cause they are headed for perdition anyway…wow, I just can’t get over all the atrocious hypocrisy in flds thinking. I can’t get over the heartlessness so many parents have shown toward their own sons and daughters in these kinds of groups.

  268. Brent Jeffs was on Dr. Drew last night. Dr. Drew asked him this question:
    If Warren was not the prophet and just lived a normal life, do you think he would have still turned out to be a pediphile?

    Brent said given how much he semmed to enjoy and delight in raping him as a little boy he felt sure the inclination was always there and he would have turned out a pediphile regardless.

    Dr. Drew agreed with Brent.

    (my interpretation of what Brent and Dr. Drew said,)

  269. I can’t get over the heartlessness so many parents have shown toward their own sons and daughters in these kinds of groups.
    gretchen said this on August 10, 2011 at 10:26 AM

    I agree completely. I am not LDS, but, my experience living in SLC for several years did show that LDS take good care of their children and at least understand that God is a loving God. I am sure there are always exceptions. But, for FLDS to abandon their sons and trade their daughters is not the teaching of the Bible and goes against human nature.

  270. so-ex-mo said this on

    I thought the photo of WARREN looked like “Bat Boy” of the National Enquirer! That shave must of hurt, strangers telling Warren how to exist now. When to eat, sleep and pee!

  271. I read the link posted here of the interview with Ken Driggs – he stated, as he had in an earlier post to his work on this site, that the people he met were kind, gentle, and caring. Only thing is in his original statement he talked about meeting both Rulon and Warren and liking them. In the current interview (after the data comes out) he implies that meeting and enjoying the rest of the folks is proof that they are not complicit. I wish that the interviewer had asked him, didn’t you think that Jeffs was interesting, kind, and nice too?
    HHG

  272. Pat said this on August 10, 2011 at 7:56 AM

    May be this will bring an end to the debate over who should run the remaining assets of the UEP! The courts have seen an eye full in just 10 days.

    The 5 court appointed Trustees that work with Bruce Wisan are Don Tempson of Centennial Park. Deloy Bateman the Science teacher at the “El Captain” school in CC, Katie Cox, who came out of the 1987 Stubbs vs Jeffs lawsuit, Carolyn Jessop to make 4 at present. Seth Cooke was removed for speaking his mind regarding the 1st Warder Warrenites. Seth also known as Claud Cooke.

    Not a good bragging right, but Seth is the son of Jack Cooke convicted and time served molestor. While alive Jack Cooke confessed his story to me, he was a BAD GUY in his youth! As Seth put it an SOB!

    While the risk is faced of the faithful reinvesting in Uncle Warren, a desire of many has been to break up the holdings of the UEP, so every family willing can own the land beneath their homes, same as us Gentiles. At least the apostates would win a victory!

  273. Is there was a way to unsee that picture of Warren the Skinhead?!

    Now I’m going to have nightmares.

  274. caJIM said this on August 10, 2011 at 8:22 AM

    Thats why I needed the advise here! He stated he never claimed to be an attorney, I thought I saw he did some where? I told him that the media would know any thing we had posted and warned of being caught in a lie. Like the Chatwin Press conference I need to know the mindset before risking the interview. It may die in the idea room of a news network, but we have exchanged serveral emails, he does get in to side rants, but then given our histories opposed to each other? Ross was pursuing a 17 year old at the time of his Press Conference, a second wife, but approved by Laurie. When it came up, my advise to be blunt honest about what you were doing and why! The same for Milton Holm when he did a series of news stories with Lenore. Milton had back handed one of his step children and had a record with the CC Police. Press will know if they did their home work, so consistancy is a must!

    Nothing Warm and fuzzy yet and he is cussing out certain anchors. You shouldn’t piss off a news anchor atleast, not the one interviewing him!

  275. What an insult to poor Bat Boy, Jay – he deserves better. ;)

    YMMV, but I like that picture of inmate 01726705. May he be blessed with many years of stale peanut butter sandwiches, endless noise, lights that never go completely out, and a complete dearth of air conditioning.

    Surely the Daily Beast is kidding? A 38 foot statue sounds like idolatry. How funny would it be, though, if something like that got struck by lightning?

  276. Gretchen: the idea that you have to be married to make it to heaven is lds and it’s been around since their beginnings, yes??

    —————————-

    I don’t know how they can even claim to be a “Church of Jesus Christ” when Jesus himself said there is no marriage in heaven, that we become genderless, like angels.

    And St Paul preached to his followers that celibacy is preferred over marriage, since it allows the believers to focus more on God and their faith.

    I believe Joseph Smith started his own religion, wrote his own bible, and claimed he had direct revelations from God as a way to get around the REAL teachings of Christ and the New Testament. That whole “Git yer own planet with all the nooky you want” promise is nothing more than a big misogynist carrot on a stick.

    The whole LDS faith is built on a foundation of hypocritical sand, as far as I’m concerned.

    Oh well, Warren has the rest of his life to dream about how he’s going to run things when he gets his own planet – no Texas Rangers allowed I’m sure!

  277. Anonymous said this on August 10, 2011 at 10:57 AM

    In the year 2000 the FLDS were experts at PR. Back then Dan Barlow answered ALL questions as the Mayor and never got rattled. The press told me they were a peaceful bunch!

    I gave Larry Warren & John Hollenhorst SLC News Anchors coached questions about Dan’s wives, their names and who was underaged when wed. On their return trip they stated a new side to Danny Barlow, angry and unwilling to talk of his family. The change was being supplied names and church members, the knowledge to discuss things they were unwilling to disclose. As long as they controlled the interviews they were a mild mannered bunch.

    Lest we forget the beating of Robert William by police officer Conn Holm, they are all not so peaceful. Robert liked Conn’s stepdaughter, but Conn like her the same way too. Conn & friends sent Robert to the hospital. His brother’s wife Suzzane was one of the earlier reassignments by Warren & Rulon as a father & Son hobby. Jason made the news then and now!

  278. InSession is taking calls – a psychologist commentator just compared him to Hitler AND Manson. He keeps talking about deprogramming, though – I don’t think he quite gets that the members aren’t just going to put down their mindset and walk away en masse.

  279. On today’s date in 2003 in Colorado City, Warren Steed Jeffs declared that the Lord had abandoned Short Creek as no longer worthy of priesthood, suspended all blessings and services to the people, and secretly began assembling the places of refuge.

    And now here we are.

  280. I’m reading the document that A Texan put up about the rules and regulations of the Texas prison system….

    Jeffs will be educated on the services avialable at the prison. Such as food service, disiciplinary actions, educational services, mail and visitation rules.

    And I couldn’t help but think it odd that they have Orchiectomy services on there. For those of you who don’t know what it is (like me, I googled it) it’s the removal of the testicles.

    Now why would they have that? Is it a texas thing? What man is going to want to get that done? In my personal opinion, jeffs should be forced to get it done…..

    Can someone shed a little more light on why the service is offered and presented at orientation?

  281. Ariel, I’m not a medical professional but I think that testicular removal procedure is for (1) treatment of cancer or (2) treatment for sex offenders to decrease sex drive.

  282. I have visited with some Jeffs family members and can now say that the death of the Jeffs sister by suicide was a case of mistaken identity. I’ve been told that Rachel is alive and well, that it was Valerie, 10 years ago, who was being referred to.

  283. Ariel, I noticed that too – looks like it was initially passed as a response to a specific request:

    http://www.texnews.com/texas97/ouch050897.html

    Chemical castration is a sentencing option for sex offenders in my state, and Louisiana recently required a convicted pedophile to submit to surgical castration before they’d approve parole. Texas doesn’t go that far – maybe orientation is the best way to get the word out that they’ll pay for it if the inmate wants it.

    TC, eight years ago on this date? How ironic.

  284. My genealogical records show a date of death for Valerie Jeffs as 13 April 2005 at only 43 years old. How deeply sad.

  285. Anybody else going through trial withdrawal? I keep thinking I should check for the latest news.

  286. Yes, trial withdrawls here, but have a spring in my step today knowing he is in Huntsville and won’t be able to physically hurt another child.

  287. I find the news that testicle removal and/or chemical castration is available to prisoners a very constructive thing- I would think it a great help, in the tightly controlled and limiting prsion environment where so many things can happen much more easily than in the world at large. It may be offered as a way to reduce frustration and the likelihood of the sad things that we have all heard about. Many people sent to state facilities will be there long years. Perhaps the medical people have agreed it is one sure way to reduce turmoil and very real danger in such settings.

  288. Warren Jeffs offender information from TDCJ: http://twitpic.com/640l0w

  289. Raises hand – I’m going through withdrawals.

  290. In my state chemical castration is meant also as a sentencing option – judges can order it outside of a prison sentence. It supposedly reduces their obsession, giving them mental space to work on their other issues.

    Somehow I don’t think inmate 01726705 will be requesting the more permanent Texas version. And the media is starting to pick up on why:

    http://gawker.com/5829542/polygamist-sex-freak-masturbates-15-times-a-day-in-jail

    Can’t say I think this is a good focus for media attention – it makes it easier for the uninformed public to dismiss it as a single-freak problem when he’s not the only offender by any means. He’d best get this under control before it gets him either shanked or sent to the psych ward.

  291. I would really be interested ib hearing about the creek, and what they are going to tell those people

  292. InSession is taking calls – a psychologist commentator just compared him to Hitler AND Manson. He keeps talking about deprogramming, though – I don’t think he quite gets that the members aren’t just going to put down their mindset and walk away en masse.

    so-ex-mo said this on August 10, 2011 at 11:44 AM

    As mind boggling as it is trying to figure out why people would follow to such a degree more conufsing to me are those who did nothing.

    I wonder what they have to say about the culutre surrounding the culture.

    There has been so much said about contacting those in office. It has all been done time and time again. It took going OUTSIDE those walls of Utah and Arizona for people to hear what has been said for years.

    I think the “talking” part is done. It is now time for “doing”.

  293. All the Canadian girls who live in the US are here illegally.
    Anonymous said this on August 10, 2011 at 9:10 AM

    Trying to ID them might not be that easy. Do the Canadians have their prints or DNA to prove it’s them? As we know, names are commonly altered to hide and/or confuse identities. Are they going to make them return to Canada? Is the US going to start deportation proceedings? It’s not going to be as simple as an RCMP guy pointing out, “You, you, you, you and you..in the bus wer’re going back..” This is another potentially sticky situation. AND, what of the ones that are adults now? And their children… There could be a whole new poll, here, on just how, when and IF the Canadians even get access! More attorneys, more hiding people, more delays, more lies…

  294. Warren looks at peace with his new haircut. He is on the jail and prison tour, been to more than anyone I can recall.

  295. Warren was married to 5 Canadians and from what I can tell, none of them had kids. Mildred Marlene Blackmore aka young Millie was picked up in the rescue in 2008. She said she was visiting her grandmother. From what I can tell, she has no grandmother on the ranch. Lana, Kathy, Margaret and Alysha are all daughters of Mac Blackmore and Rosalyn Williams. I wonder if they know that Mac died in July.

  296. walton said this on August 10, 2011 at 2:11 PM

    So true!

    I think often, that if Warren had not gone to Texas, stayed in Utah, we would still be fighting him, Utah legislators and lawyers still defending him.

    IT TOOK TEXAS to take this serious!

    Wheels of Justice grind slowly, the press is slowly starting to question, what occured before Texas and who knew?

  297. The National Press is slow…

    O’Reily with FOX News cancelled a show on the FLDS and Jeffs in 2004. He just didn’t get it back then! It was just entertainment news and fluff back then. I’m not even sure he believed it was real.

    Do a nexus search and you will see Barbara Walters doing stories 25 years a go. Walter C. Connie Chung, Dan Rather, etc. They were clueless when their exposure could of stopped this. A new breed of Winslow, Watkiss, Huntsaker, Hollenhorst, Dougherty, took the same story, but stayed with it year after year! INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST a dying breed it seems.

  298. Don’t experience withdrawl symptoms, unite instead! There is a great coalition now that can be built on to, with dedicated and time tested activist, seasoned trench fighters. Make one hundred, one thousand and build on it.

    The Kingston worth maybe a billion dollars, they expand by INCEST, Kingston’s breed and marry their own. Why address the FLDS and ignore all the others? William Black was fringe FLDS and he fled to Mexico with the underage Stubb sisters. Thomas Sliwinski fled to Mexico with William after he lost his case in Montana, he made 10 children with 2 step daughters. We are still searching the Globe for Winston Blackmore’s cousin Kenyon whom married his daughters at age 12. You have the Gerald Peterson Group, Jim Harmston, whats left of Fred Collier’s group. The list is long! Independents maybe 30,000 or more in the rural Western states. Who will rescue the children of the rest of these extremist groups?

    Why quit now? What else do you have to do with your lives? Need a hobby? Take the old activist out of retirement, combine them with the new! Breath new life in to Ben Bistline, tell him there are more battles to be won!

    A journalist Suzan Mazur often told me when I was tired from research and lack of sleep, that I had an ETERNITY TO SLEEP, that the story must get out and be told! It excused nights of little sleep.

    I AM DEAD SERIOUS, THERE ARE MORE GROUPS AND INDEPENDENTS AS EXTREME AS WARREN! If not those here, then WHO???

  299. Here’s what the British press is saying about the felonious profit:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024530/Warren-Jeffs-trial-Prison-photos-paedophile-shaved-ashamed.html

    From article:

    He will now begin his sentence at the Byrd Unit in Huntsville, Texas, where he is allowed no visits and no calls.
    The unit is used to house death row inmates and those on life sentences without parole before they are moved on to the facilities where they will remain for the rest of their lives.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2024530/Warren-Jeffs-trial-Prison-photos-paedophile-shaved-ashamed.html#ixzz1UeyyXTC1

  300. Jay, I kind of agreed with Mike Watkiss’ irritation over the fact that the national journalists are now acting like they’ve broke the story on this cult that no one knew about until now.

  301. i found this in arizona newspaper ,,, didnt copy all the story,, but thought this was interesting

    Michael Piccarreta, a Tucson attorney who represented Jeffs against the charges in Arizona, said the outcome in Texas is a miscarriage of justice because searches were conducted unlawfully and Jeffs was forced to represent himself.

    “It’s an old-fashion, Texas-style lynching,” he said. “If you deny an individual a lawyer of his choice, the result is predictable.”

    Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2011/08/10/20110810polygamist-jeffs-sentencing-sects-future-in-question.html#ixzz1Uf0wfeJg

  302. I was struck with Ken Driggs interview with PBS Radio and his full knowledge and background on the FLDS Church people. I am thankful that his take and enabling was not presented in ‘Warrants’ trial because it has a real ‘Safety Net Committee’ flavor to it. Ken wants to create a whole stage set up with backgrounds and various scenes over now decades to explain away the inherent lawlessness of the FLDS Church as a whole Theocracy. He wants to explain the FLDS Church to all of us like they are some homespun ‘native’ religious sect that needs unending understanding and multiple chances to mend their ways or we need to embrace their brand of Fruit Loops. Basically, Ken has more than drunk the ‘Kool-Aide’ he seems to prefer it to Coca-Cola. Being a criminal attorney I am unsure if he was using the PBS Radio interview for a chance to win a chance to represent the FLDS Church and Warren Jeffs or if he truly likes plain water, food dyes and a little sugar with a daft set of beliefs. He reminded me of Kevin Costner in,’Dances with Wolves’, if he has gone injun’ on us?

  303. Piccarata is full of bull crap!! His gravy train is gone! thats what he is pissed about

  304. Jay, I may be having trial withdrawal, but by no means am I losing interest in the issue or determination to keep these abuses in front of the media/public.

  305. We need to get the feds more interested in this case

  306. DDog1–agree about Piccarreta. He’s just missing his 15 minutes of fame.

  307. i found this in arizona newspaper ,,, didnt copy all the story,, but thought this was interesting

    Michael Piccarreta, a Tucson attorney who represented Jeffs against the charges in Arizona, said the outcome in Texas is a miscarriage of justice because searches were conducted unlawfully and Jeffs was forced to represent himself.

    “It’s an old-fashion, Texas-style lynching,” he said. “If you deny an individual a lawyer of his choice, the result is predictable.”

    Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2011/08/10/20110810polygamist-jeffs-sentencing-sects-future-in-question.html#ixzz1Uf0wfeJg

    Deputydog1 said this on August 10, 2011 at 3:39 PM

    Yes unfortunately Piccarreta might have a point as this article in today’s San Angelo paper pints out:

    http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2011/aug/09/jeffs-among-those-who-could-get-new-trial-on/

    Lets hope the appeals courts uphold the warrants.

  308. The movie The Villiage is an incredible movie. When you are conditioned to fear the unknown and the unknown becomes reality. or is it?

    Who do you trust?

    Going to a shrink for an hour a week isn’t going to put a dent into some of the “mind control” that has been instilled for so many years. It will have to be a combination of so many things. imo One of those things has to be that Law Enforcement is there to protect everyone. Not just those that are in the circle.

    There is no way that I would trust Mark Shurtleff or any of the agencies he has working with and for him. jmo He says one thing and does another.

    He said that people needed to speak out. They did. He ignored their pleas for help and walked with Willie and Co.

    They have different help organizations out there for those leaving and yet Mark Shurtleffs name is attatched to most in one fashion or another.

    http://youtu.be/m-F1u2MgnUo The Village – Alternate Ending

  309. There was a Dr [a psychiatrist??] on IS earlier today, and he kept talking about the flds being deprogrammed. I didn’t see alll of the interview…but I don’t think he had a full grasp on the situation! You don’t just send them to classes/psychiatrists and make them all better. And, to have them quote Willie, still gives me the willies…even thought I unwillingly have to agree with a few things he says.

  310. Trial withdrawal here too….however, I have been writing my senators to ask them to support federal investigation of United States polygamy and it’s attendant abuses. I have also been wrting In Session (sometimes multiple times a day) to thank them for the their coverage and to keep it up. How does one contact “the feds?”

  311. The bald Warren looks a bit like Voldemort.

  312. We need to get the feds more interested in this case

    Deputydog1 said this on August 10, 2011 at 3:46 PM

    In 2008 Reid and others spoke about gathering a Task force to dig and do something about all this. Supposedly Shurtleff and Goddard agreed. Or at least they did in front of certain media. Their actions (or lack of actions) proved otherwise.

    Tim Fuhrman FBI guy said that the states could handle their own.

    So there we have it. One agency says yes. Another says no.

    And somewhere in the middle is the reason why they haven’t.

    The FBI has taken a back seat to someone imo. The question is who? or what? and why?

    Now, I know that the FBI have had some major jobs cutting back on the different crimes concerning mobs, other Religious groups, sex rings etc. Who is making them sit on their hands with this? And why?

    Susan Hayes said something about Utah and Arizona doing something. What did she mean and what has she heard.

    John Turley? Sister Wives aka Shurtleff Entertainment? I hate picking on Shurtleff all the time but he is one of the big guys in charge. What about the Gov. of Utah? why on earth hasn’t he been made accountable?

    Federal dollars are being pumpled into his state that help families that have 20-100 plus kids. Why? Where is his outrage?

  313. Warren Sentence Day 8-9-2011

    15,319 hits

    Its likely word has traveled to the FLDS group.

  314. FLDS Texas,

    That’s fantastic, and so are you!

  315. InSessions, Dr. Drew and HLN have done a fantastic job keeping this in the light. And even more importantly is the fact that a person can see/hear that they care.

    I am on a time warp with InSessions. the internet told me Warren was guilty an hour or two before InSessions. No fault to anyone, I just live further in the sticks then everyone I guess.

    I have missed days of work trying to catch it all. And then tried running from the office to the tv so I wouldn’t miss anything.

    Right now there isn’t enough time in the day for me to catch it all. And I hate to miss anything. And then still trying to keep my eye on any other news that might be sneaking in around us.

    The Dr. that was on InSessions today is a good man. I’ve watched him during the many other trials. What he is saying makes sense IF a person was dealing with a small group. But this is a large group living among other groups in a State that was formed because of this type of thinking.

    it isn’t how do you deprogram a small group- it should be how do you deprogram a state? or states?

    I was glad to see Tom Horne speak out. He imo is also a good man. I don’t have anything bad to say about him.

  316. Walton, I think the RCMP Investigation in Boutiful, Canada should turn up both Canadian and American ‘Child Brides’ that have been iillegally shuttled across the International Border, the polygamy reference case should affirm that bigamy is a justified criminal act by BC Chief Justice Robert Bauman, even if it is appealed and the fact remains for now that there haven’t been any celestial sealings and ‘Warrant’ Jeffs is no longer able to perform this bogus ordinance. Also, there are still pending Grand Jury indictments for four remaining FLDS Priesthood men and the investigations are ongoing. The Federal flight charge for ‘Warrant’ Jeffs and the Federal search warrant served at the YFZ Ranch have not yet been brought to light, so far so good, with more developments likely.

  317. FLDS Texas, 15,000 hits – can you source some of them to the Crick?

    If you are here, know that there are many people out here who hope you find a way to heal and reconstruct you lives in such a way that your children are offered education through college for both sexes and that your community becomes one that is safe for all children of any faith and gender.
    There are hands that would like to help.
    love
    HHG

  318. Historically its been noted that indeed there are many users in the Shortcreek area and vicinity who visit the site.

    Regardless that Warren has banned such research and exposure to the “FLDS Truth”.

  319. Please make new comments on the new discussion thread:

    http://texasflds.wordpress.com/2011/08/10/the-most-pure-man-on-earth/

    Make sure you read the post as well!

    Thanks!

  320. An organized crime syndicate can operate just fine from inside of a prison. For the past 4+ years the FLDS Church has not renounced any of the plea/convicted felons nor shown any willingness to co-operate or change their practices, they remain resolute in their illegal acitivites and resigned to continue the covert behaviors. The sex trafficking, failures to report illegal acts and evidence that will now be shared with the Utah AG’s Office and the UEPTrustee should bring more Law Enforcement actions to bear on this fanatical church sect. Under age wedlocks, illegal border crossings, failures to report to lawful authorities and falsified accountings at the UEP Trust and elsewhere all adds up to an underworld crime syndicate and higher authorities need to enact stronger Law Enforcement actions.

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